I enjoyed this vid a bunch and your editing is crazyyy. IMO Gliscor doesn’t really suffer/is a victim because its sets are solely based on its partners, not so much itself as an individual. Like I’m never going to wish my gliscor had crabhammer if I’m running it on stall and I’d never wish for toxic if I’m running a breaking set with SD and Facade. I think an argument can be made for Blaziken too but I swear 50% of the time I wish I had 5th move protect so I could outspeed a lot of booster energy users/scarfers lmaooooo. Subbed Fosho
@@jmcbango yeah I agree, on gross I wouldn’t kick myself if I didn’t have stealth rock on a banded set and wouldn’t want agility on a more defensive set with rocks. The mon doesn’t have to fit every role and use every move, it’s move set is dependent on what you need it to do, so I don’t really think Scor and gross fit the criteria of the vid.
@@jmcbangoOnly Gliscor, Metagross definitely suffers from 4mss, unless you are running choice band or assault vest. And even then, you have to give up on either earthquake or knock off. For leftovers or weakness policy sweeping sets it gets even worse
I think you still didn't get the concept of 4 move syndrom. 4 move syndrom is when a pokemon has more than 4 good moves it wants to use, as you mentioned, and every combination of 4 of these moves isn't enough because it lacks another move. Let's take Gliscor, for example. It isn't suffering from 4 move syndrom, for 2 reasons: 1. Most of the moves you mentioned aren't needed for it to be viable. Even if it had 10 moves, it probably wouldn't use night slash and psychic fangs. 2. While it has multiple viable moves people use on it, every move is used on a different set. One set might be stall: Toxic, protect, roost/sub and knock off Another might be bulky set up: Swords dance, eq, facade, roost One might be hazard setter: Spikes, roost, eq/knock off, stealth rocks/toxic Every one of these movesets is good for the role it's trying to be. It doesn't need more than 4 moves to be a good mon, which is why it was OU ever since it was introduced, and was banned from OU in gen 9. Great vid, but it's important to distinguish between a mon that sufferes from 4 moves syndrom (like blaziken in the last few gens) and gliscor (that is great with only 4 moves, just have different sets)
It’s cuz OP is a vgc minded UA-camr and 4MSS literally does not exist as a concept in VGC, “4MSS” is simply “man this non gets a lot of great moves”, but due to how doubles works, weaknesses based on not running a particular 5th move are simply patched up by their partner pokemon
@@xxcridonxx7614It isn't at all. Gliscor is perfectly usable and strong in many matchups with any of these sets, just because it can't win in every single scenario by having all the moves it wants doesn't mean it suffers from 4MSS because gliscor doesnt inherently need to use every single move available to it. This is unlike a pokemon like lucario, blaziken, infernape or metagross who struggle very often to fit every move they want in any given matchup however unlike gliscor these pokemon can typically be ride or die with how volatile their movesets can be which can make it somewhat of an unreliable matchup fish scenario sometimes due to their 4MSS that usually always ends with them being on the losing side.
Ogerpon Rock form also sometimes likes power whip over Wood hammer because the recoil ruins its sturdy, which is the main reason to even run rock form.
That's a great video, but I think some things are missing or could have been done a bit better. When showing which moves a pokemon could run (it's mostly for Metagross and Ogerpon), you could have put the moves you have to choose between on the same line instead of different lines (like Iron Head, Meteor Mash, Hard Press and Heavy Slam. You wouldn't run two of these moves and instead only choose the one you prefer) Putting them on different lines only falsely increases the number of moves the pokemon have to choose from to prove your point of four moveslots syndrome. I'm sure you didn't do it intently though. Also, many moves you show (for singles pokemons at least) are not ran on the same sets. For example, Booster Energy (speed or attack) Tusk would run Bulk Up, Close Combat, and either Earthquake or Headlong Rush, but you would rarely see Stealth Rocks on the set. On the other hand, a defensive set of Tusk would most likely never run Bulk Up and instead run Rapid Spin, Stealth Rock, a Ground Move and either Knock Off or Temper Flare to hit Gohldengo, or Ice Spinner to hit Landorus-T. Most coverage moves you show for pokemons in single (especially for Gliscor) never gets considered because it doesn't fit their role. At most, it can be useful in Draft League to counter a specific pokemon of the opponent but, like, Night Slash on Gliscor is too situational to be ran on standard sets. I don't know if including this in the video would have been useful but I think it's still important precision. For moves you missed, Blaziken would sometimes use Blaze Kick instead of Flare Blitz on Focus Sash sets. Upper Hands is also a great addition in the Focus Sash sweeper set since Blaziken is so weak to priority attacks. Gliscor also likes to run Facade on Poison Heal sets. For Grass moves on masked Ogerpons, you missed Power Whip, which is sometimes ran when Horn Leech's power isn't enough and Wood Hammer's recoil damage is not preferred. Overall, I think your video was great and pretty informative but that's all the more the reason for me to correct the mistakes!
Something else to note about Gliscor/Poison Heal Gliscor is immune to (new) status effects (once poisoned by Toxic Orb) [OK, all Pokémon are, but Poison Heal Pokémon WANT to be Poisoned, so shut up] It can't be burned, it can't be paralysed, it won't fall asleep, and it's immune to being frozen. Poison Heal is immune to Sleep Powder and Spore (once poisoned) Poison Heal is immune to Will-O-Wisp (once poisoned) Poison Heal is immune to all forms of Paralysis (once poisoned)
@@whole_wheat_soup9321 back in gens 7 and 8 Serp had more than 5 moves it gave a damn to run. Dual screens was neat, but even taunt and defog were used in sun and moon ou. So it did have some variety uh...8 years ago give or take
Could there be a three slot syndrome? For Pokémon who only have two or three good moves and the other moves are just decent or ok or protect. Pokémon that are still good but don’t have that many good moves
Gen 2 Snorlax is kind of a funny case of four-moveslot syndrome, in that "can only run four moves" is basically Snorlax's sole weakness. There's a whole swathe of Gen 2 Pokemon whose whole thing is "I can sort of counter Snorlax if it's running these four common moves, but if it's running this other common move, then I'm screwed." But this means Snorlax ends up in this position where it wants to run Move A to deal with Pokemon B, but Pokemon C doesn't give the faintest shit about Move A. Like, oh, you swapped out Earthquake for Thunder so you could hit Cloyster? Nice going, idiot, I just swapped in Golem, and now the king of OU is looking at a possible 8HKO. Basically, Snorlax not having a fifth move is the main thing that makes Gen 2 OU a playable metagame.
I feel like some of these pokemon really shouldn't be here, because you wouldn't normally want to run a portion of the moves if the pokemon is being built to fulfill a certain role. You wouldn't put Stealth Rock on an offensive Great Tusk or Bulk Up on a defensive Great Tusk
This is the same sort of idea as Smeargle. Just because it can reasonably run more than 4 synergistic moves, doesn't mean it's suffering from 4MSS, you just pick between all those moves to fit your team's needd
Gliscor is very overturned . Poison heal is too strong because it not only gives greater than leftovers healing , the fact that it heal though status means it is imminent other statuses , and once the toxic is active it cannot be knocked off!! Too strong. They should need it by making it bug type. It is a Scorpion so it needs to be bug.
I enjoyed this vid a bunch and your editing is crazyyy. IMO Gliscor doesn’t really suffer/is a victim because its sets are solely based on its partners, not so much itself as an individual. Like I’m never going to wish my gliscor had crabhammer if I’m running it on stall and I’d never wish for toxic if I’m running a breaking set with SD and Facade. I think an argument can be made for Blaziken too but I swear 50% of the time I wish I had 5th move protect so I could outspeed a lot of booster energy users/scarfers lmaooooo. Subbed Fosho
Agreed he missed the point with gliscor and metagross
@@jmcbango yeah I agree, on gross I wouldn’t kick myself if I didn’t have stealth rock on a banded set and wouldn’t want agility on a more defensive set with rocks. The mon doesn’t have to fit every role and use every move, it’s move set is dependent on what you need it to do, so I don’t really think Scor and gross fit the criteria of the vid.
@@jmcbangoOnly Gliscor, Metagross definitely suffers from 4mss, unless you are running choice band or assault vest. And even then, you have to give up on either earthquake or knock off. For leftovers or weakness policy sweeping sets it gets even worse
I think you still didn't get the concept of 4 move syndrom.
4 move syndrom is when a pokemon has more than 4 good moves it wants to use, as you mentioned, and every combination of 4 of these moves isn't enough because it lacks another move.
Let's take Gliscor, for example. It isn't suffering from 4 move syndrom, for 2 reasons:
1. Most of the moves you mentioned aren't needed for it to be viable. Even if it had 10 moves, it probably wouldn't use night slash and psychic fangs.
2. While it has multiple viable moves people use on it, every move is used on a different set.
One set might be stall:
Toxic, protect, roost/sub and knock off
Another might be bulky set up:
Swords dance, eq, facade, roost
One might be hazard setter:
Spikes, roost, eq/knock off, stealth rocks/toxic
Every one of these movesets is good for the role it's trying to be. It doesn't need more than 4 moves to be a good mon, which is why it was OU ever since it was introduced, and was banned from OU in gen 9.
Great vid, but it's important to distinguish between a mon that sufferes from 4 moves syndrom (like blaziken in the last few gens) and gliscor (that is great with only 4 moves, just have different sets)
If gliscor had more than 4 move slots it'd probably be banned to UUbers lol.
It’s cuz OP is a vgc minded UA-camr and 4MSS literally does not exist as a concept in VGC, “4MSS” is simply “man this non gets a lot of great moves”, but due to how doubles works, weaknesses based on not running a particular 5th move are simply patched up by their partner pokemon
Gliscor is good but it def has 4 move slot syndrome. A mom doesn’t have to be bad to have 4 slot syndrome
@@xxcridonxx7614It isn't at all. Gliscor is perfectly usable and strong in many matchups with any of these sets, just because it can't win in every single scenario by having all the moves it wants doesn't mean it suffers from 4MSS because gliscor doesnt inherently need to use every single move available to it.
This is unlike a pokemon like lucario, blaziken, infernape or metagross who struggle very often to fit every move they want in any given matchup however unlike gliscor these pokemon can typically be ride or die with how volatile their movesets can be which can make it somewhat of an unreliable matchup fish scenario sometimes due to their 4MSS that usually always ends with them being on the losing side.
Gliscor has 2 types, that’s already half of its moves to utilize stab
Ogerpon Rock form also sometimes likes power whip over Wood hammer because the recoil ruins its sturdy, which is the main reason to even run rock form.
That's a great video, but I think some things are missing or could have been done a bit better.
When showing which moves a pokemon could run (it's mostly for Metagross and Ogerpon), you could have put the moves you have to choose between on the same line instead of different lines (like Iron Head, Meteor Mash, Hard Press and Heavy Slam. You wouldn't run two of these moves and instead only choose the one you prefer) Putting them on different lines only falsely increases the number of moves the pokemon have to choose from to prove your point of four moveslots syndrome. I'm sure you didn't do it intently though.
Also, many moves you show (for singles pokemons at least) are not ran on the same sets. For example, Booster Energy (speed or attack) Tusk would run Bulk Up, Close Combat, and either Earthquake or Headlong Rush, but you would rarely see Stealth Rocks on the set. On the other hand, a defensive set of Tusk would most likely never run Bulk Up and instead run Rapid Spin, Stealth Rock, a Ground Move and either Knock Off or Temper Flare to hit Gohldengo, or Ice Spinner to hit Landorus-T. Most coverage moves you show for pokemons in single (especially for Gliscor) never gets considered because it doesn't fit their role. At most, it can be useful in Draft League to counter a specific pokemon of the opponent but, like, Night Slash on Gliscor is too situational to be ran on standard sets. I don't know if including this in the video would have been useful but I think it's still important precision.
For moves you missed, Blaziken would sometimes use Blaze Kick instead of Flare Blitz on Focus Sash sets. Upper Hands is also a great addition in the Focus Sash sweeper set since Blaziken is so weak to priority attacks.
Gliscor also likes to run Facade on Poison Heal sets.
For Grass moves on masked Ogerpons, you missed Power Whip, which is sometimes ran when Horn Leech's power isn't enough and Wood Hammer's recoil damage is not preferred.
Overall, I think your video was great and pretty informative but that's all the more the reason for me to correct the mistakes!
Could you look at bad pokemon who suck because of 4mss?
Something else to note about Gliscor/Poison Heal
Gliscor is immune to (new) status effects (once poisoned by Toxic Orb) [OK, all Pokémon are, but Poison Heal Pokémon WANT to be Poisoned, so shut up]
It can't be burned, it can't be paralysed, it won't fall asleep, and it's immune to being frozen.
Poison Heal is immune to Sleep Powder and Spore (once poisoned)
Poison Heal is immune to Will-O-Wisp (once poisoned)
Poison Heal is immune to all forms of Paralysis (once poisoned)
It also doesn’t care about knock off since it isn’t really losing an item once already poisoned
poison jab is pointless on blaziken considering flare blitz does more
I use it to get rid of fairies
I haven’t watched this video yet, but Volbeat deserves to be in it
Mixed attackers suffer the worst, they often waste there whooping atk/spatk by focusing on the other
How about Pokémon with very few viable movesets?
Serperior
Staraptor use the same build since gen 4.
It's brave bird, double edge, close combat, u turn
@@AriehAnkridont forget the scarf final gambit kamikaze sets
@meticakolli1237 yeah doesn't serperior run like exclusively leaf storm leech seed glare and whatever other move?
@@whole_wheat_soup9321 back in gens 7 and 8 Serp had more than 5 moves it gave a damn to run.
Dual screens was neat, but even taunt and defog were used in sun and moon ou. So it did have some variety uh...8 years ago give or take
I really dunno how to feel about the selection here.
Could there be a three slot syndrome? For Pokémon who only have two or three good moves and the other moves are just decent or ok or protect. Pokémon that are still good but don’t have that many good moves
4 move syndrome is why Lance has a backup dragonite lol
Gen 2 Snorlax is kind of a funny case of four-moveslot syndrome, in that "can only run four moves" is basically Snorlax's sole weakness. There's a whole swathe of Gen 2 Pokemon whose whole thing is "I can sort of counter Snorlax if it's running these four common moves, but if it's running this other common move, then I'm screwed." But this means Snorlax ends up in this position where it wants to run Move A to deal with Pokemon B, but Pokemon C doesn't give the faintest shit about Move A. Like, oh, you swapped out Earthquake for Thunder so you could hit Cloyster? Nice going, idiot, I just swapped in Golem, and now the king of OU is looking at a possible 8HKO.
Basically, Snorlax not having a fifth move is the main thing that makes Gen 2 OU a playable metagame.
More vids big dawg you are amazing
Nice video :) new sub
Thanks!
I feel like some of these pokemon really shouldn't be here, because you wouldn't normally want to run a portion of the moves if the pokemon is being built to fulfill a certain role. You wouldn't put Stealth Rock on an offensive Great Tusk or Bulk Up on a defensive Great Tusk
Nice vid, but gliscor isnt suffering at all. Especially as of gen 9. If you want offense, SD+3 attacks. if you want defense, prot+toxic+rocks+attack.
This is the same sort of idea as Smeargle. Just because it can reasonably run more than 4 synergistic moves, doesn't mean it's suffering from 4MSS, you just pick between all those moves to fit your team's needd
Based
You forgot facade on gliscor
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Gliscor is very overturned . Poison heal is too strong because it not only gives greater than leftovers healing , the fact that it heal though status means it is imminent other statuses , and once the toxic is active it cannot be knocked off!! Too strong. They should need it by making it bug type. It is a Scorpion so it needs to be bug.