I have been looking for new high quality baseball content that isn't old FoolishBB or SB Nation videos for awhile now, and holy shit did you knock it out of the park dude! Awesome work, keep doing what you're doing!
Here's some more you might like.. Baseball Historian Baseball's Not Dead Baseball Doesn't Exist Stark Raving Sports SportStorm The Baseball Professor And That's Baseball Secret Base
You have to look for a better research and better info, Juan Gonzalez didn't stole the MVP as you says, Juan Gonzalez earned the MVP for his effort and dedication not using steroids like Alex Rodriguez and others. 😊 And he deserves be in the HOF
This does a good job talking about RBIs and their value. Runs are more valuable, but that doesn't mean RBIs have no value. One of the sad parts of baseball, and to me the part I never thought I would see, was the way modern fans are just and narrow minded and just as "medieval" as back in the 2000s, they just do it with different stats now. I was one of the youngest members of SABR, and I thought I was on the real cutting edge of statical researched. But now it has shifted so that the nerds like me run the game without any thought as to the players they are analyzing. They have no thought to skills like RBIs. It's all about OPS+. That's great, but to be narrow minded and use WAR without any context is just as bone-headed. Guys like Gonzalez wouldn't be my choice for MVP, but a good lineup has to have that one guy that forces pitchers to pitch while thinking about the lineup rotation. It may no show up in stats, but having one Paul Bunyan that can hit the ball to the moon is one of the reasons, I would argue, that the 1990s exploded in offensive production. Good offenses were built around said player, and said player started playing clean baseball by eating lots of Elephant Growth Hormone that was naturally butchered with steroids.
Also I will be streaming tonight at 7:00 EST on UA-cam with my good friend And That’s Baseball along with PlayoffTanaka and Mike from Stark Raving Sports.
Fun thing regarding 9:47 - around that time, they had a rule as well that each player could only win the MVP one time in their career. So, Babe Ruth got it in 1923 (when it appears voting started), and, despite having seasons better than that, he didn't even "receive votes" again until 1931.
@@nomorefielders Its the secret payoff of watching the whole video. Also as someone who religiously watches secret base/Bailey videos the wit and humor that you put into these makes me question if you’re not secretly part of their writing staff
@@michaelhopkins4538 hahaha man I wish. Thank you for watching though. It’s viewers like you that’ll hopefully put this channel in the same conversation as theirs in the coming months.
During the 1990's (my 23 to 33 years of age), I lived and worked in the DAFW area. I followed those Rangers and truly enjoyed that 1996-1999 run. So when I read the title and before watching the video, I was all set to write my "the problem with you young MLB fans today is..." response. After watching the video...I agree 100%. And yes, I will admit I was one of those MLB Fans that loved the Saves Stat in 1980's.
Those Rangers teams were truly fun. I loved that tidbit about how they didn’t really know how to celebrate when they won their first division title that year. Another cub stat I had to cut out was that the 96-99 Rangers had more MVPs in that span than any other team in the previous 10 years.
Great vid dude! A lil Dorktown foolish and stark influence here but made it your own. Plus the chart at 7:20 tells me that Cals MVPs are legit ! As an Os fan I totally agree👍🏽
Yeah tbh that thought came across to me while editing the script, I think it’s more to prove a bigger point that there are some stats that come with an asterisk even if it’s at 20% opacity.
@@nomorefielders Ya but 90% success while stealing, especially at that volume, does make it bullet proof? A fun thing to do too is adjusting OPS and/or Slugging by turning singles into doubles where he stole a base or even triples if he stole 2. Then remove the hit/walk when he’s caught. Let’s make stealing great again.
@@parkermaki3799 actually I legitimately had this thought a few months ago (you can check my Twitter to verify), but I know what you’re saying about Wills. It was such a high volume so it didn’t really matter that much that he led the league in CS.
"Having over 25 baseball reference tabs open at once isn't good for my mental health or my CPU" Literally me right now at 2 am thanks to videos like this😂. You're producing great content and the little cultural references you sprinkle in are fantastic. I could watch these all day.
It's quite obvious you haven't watched Juan Gonzalez play. You've just watched UA-cam clips. Without a doubt anyone that watched baseball during these years would agree that Juan Gonzalez was one of the most feared hitters in the league. He absolutely smoked the ball. Also absolutely the best hitter on that team.
@nelsongalvez2577 is absolutely correct. Seeing Juan Gonzalez play through 1992-1999 was no doubt one of the most feared hitters in baseball. This video makes a compelling argument but it's based on sabermetrics and stat cast garbage which didn't exist at that time. Where a team finished in the standings meant something back then and did impact MVP voting. Not this participation trophy shit that goes on today. Albert Belle was gonna win zero awards. Dude was a complete beast but the media hated him and that's all it takes and was a bit of a dick. Now Griffey and Arod I'm getting there. As someone who has lived in Seattle the last 30 years. No doubt in my mind they got snubbed due to Seattle being such a small market. Not to mention the Mariners were never that good. I mean seriously in this town Dan Wilson is a legend......just sayin lol. When you say Seattle Mariners everyone know who Griffey is and that's it. In the grand scheme of things when it comes to MLB as a whole, Seattle gets forgotten about and always has and always will. No doubt in my mind that's why Arod and Griffey were passed up.
Yeah but he (or a Rangers secretary or something) signed a baseball card I mailed to him along with a self-addressed stamped envelope in like 1999 so that kind of cancels out the negative dWAR in my heart
I cringe so hard going back and looking at mvp and cy young votings from the past. I know they didn't have war or other super advanced metrics back then, but still some of them were so obviously wrong
Those Rangers sure stole many AL MVP from 1996-2003 JuanGon = 1996 and 1998 Pudge over Pedro in 1999 AROD (playing for a 70 win team) over other AL players
I don't agree with almost anything you said. Saying a guy that missed 30 games & still drove in 144 runs is ridiculous that he wasn't the best player on the team in 96. He's the guy they counted on to drive in runs (you know that thing you can't win any games without doing) & did that better than anybody. he deserved that MVP he didn't steal it. Not going to waste my time watching the last half of this.
To be fair, a good part of the reason the MVP is often not the highest WAR player on the team is because team aces tend to get disproportionally high WAR numbers, yet pitchers rarely win MVP unless they truly have completely dominant seasons. 2002 Miguel Tejada is a good example, given he was easily the best position player on the team but had fewer WAR than his teammate Barry Zito who won the CYA that year.
In retrospect, the writers not selecting Albert Belle in 1995 should have been cause for more outcry. It shows that writers are the real problem with the game. Look at the modern case with Curt Schilling. By every objective measure, Curt Schilling is a close to first ballot or first ballot lock HOFer. Why is he still not in? Because he committed a thought crime. The same guy who won the Clemente Man of the Year award in 2002 has "character issues"? Writers and what they bring is a throwback to a bygone age, and now they serve absolutely no purpose. I can get a quote from any player, watch any highlight and do anything a writer can. I don't need them.
Joe Cronin vs. Lou Gehrig vote is wild. Cronin is literally behind Gehrig in every stat. Maybe Cronin was a monster on defense, I have no idea, but he was strongly dominated at the plate.
As a lifetime Ranger fan, I think you bring up a lot of good points. It's easy to tear holes in Juando sabremetrically. But I'll tell you what wins games-scoring more runs than the other team. It's not something you can really quantify, but there's value in a guy who finds a way bring guys home. We criticize guys who seem to always leave runners in scoring position. Juan was the opposite of that guy. There are players who have a knack for doing that. Fred McGriff, Bernie Williams, and Garrett Anderson, and Adrian Beltre come to mind. I'm not sure who your favorite team is or how old you are, but the Rangers have always been dogged by poor starting pitching. Since Gonzalez helped to alleviate that issue, he provided VALUE. So who was the best player in 1996? For me it's Ken Griffey Jr. But that's purely subjective. I enjoyed the video. I'll check out your other work.
Still clueless as to how Juan Gone beat out pretty much the 5 or 6 names right under him that year. How did arod not take it home….he scored 52 more runs and had a ba .44 points higher!
Never thought I’d see someone playing the “were you even alive?” card but that’s why I specifically said I wished I had more video to look at. But from the few clips I saw he clearly looked a step behind the ball.
@@nomorefielders Exactly! You made a 20 minute video about him not deserving his mvp's without more evidence. I think 46 errors in 17 seasons isn't bad. But what do i know I'm not a know it all baseball youtuber. BTW those Mariner teams were loaded with Edgar Martinez and Jay Buhner too. Do you know who they are? Since you weren't born yet.
@@nomorefielders no but it shows he wasn’t a defensive liability like you think. I’ve been a ranger fan since the early 90s and I’ve seen bad outfielders. Jose Canseco taking a ball off the head and Nelson Cruz losing the World Series 2011.
Gonzalez had an arm... he caught the ball at the warning track in right field (Rangers Bullpen) & through a missile to third base. He would single handly rip the Yankees.
In a general context, how the reaction would be to the 1996 AL MVP selection... don't hate on the wrong guy (Gonzalez, who was damn great at what he did best). The voters just didn't know any better about the whole matrices in statkeeping that makes it all the more (in)famous in baseball.
Yeah that’s true. I like to think it balances out and the margin of error isn’t too egregious. I should’ve probably limited it to the top 20 vote getters but you live and you learn.
I actually watched The Rangers a lot back then when it happened. You saying Mark Mclemore and Rusty Greer are better based on some need formula is lame. Twisting numbers and reality at the same time to benefit your narrative. You didn’t see the games you’re too young. You’re opinion is invalid.
I say the same thing, I am 37. Juan Gonzalez was one of the most feared hitters in his prime.. I mean feared, before vlad Guerrero , there was Juan, he can hit a home run with a fast ball at the knees, few major leaguers can do that. Probably Harper is the only player I can see heating an outside or inside pitch at the knees out the ball park and he is Bryan Harper..
144 RBI s in 132 games is crazy no matter what little stat you throw in there.. Trust me. This guy was a terror , and pitchers feared him so he barely got any good pitch to hit, look where Juan had to dig his balls from for homers and hits and you tell me this guy was not insane, not close, those numbers you are talking don't really make no sense . sorry
At the end of the day he still drove in those runs. Nobody says JJ Redick was a better shooter than Bird cause he shot more 3s. Gonzalez was a monster. If you luck out and get more opportunities with runners on base, your numbers will go down,,,Mo Vaughn OPS with runners on was higher because of it.
'98 is arguable and i stand with the voters because you need runs to win and rbis are always a 100% chance to either get back from a deficit or win a close game there were surefire better candidates but a batted in run season that hasnt been seen for 48 years is historical
Except... Albert Belle had just 5 RBIs less than Gonzalez that season. It's not like he was blowing away the other competition. Manny Ramirez convincingly beat JuanGon the very next year and he also didn't win MVP.
Very entertaining way to brain wash and try to change what really happened. Gonzalez OWNED those years and was the overall best player when you combine RBIs, HRs, BA, and taking a team that wasn’t in the playoffs in decades all the way to the end, and even breaking the October record for HRs in the playoffs. Only Ken Griffey Jr was at par with Juan Gonzalez at that time. Give credit to Juan Igor… who should be in the Hall of Fame already! Even Ivan agrees with me
Again I’m not saying he was bad by any means. Just that with the benefit of hindsight, there were clearly better players in the league both years he won.
While I enjoyed the video, I disagree. Juan Gonzalez was an absolute beast and I will never forget the summer he chased Hack Wilson's RBI record, that was the stuff of legend.
Fair enough. I think what most people don’t understand is that I’m not calling Juan Gonzalez bad by any means, just saying that there were more deserving candidates at the time in my opinion.
I definitely see your point and it was well presented. As someone who grew up idolizing Griffey and Thomas (like most 90’s kids), Juan sure captured our hearts and minds for a few years and I keep forgetting he isn’t in the Hall of Fame. That’s how prolific he was at the time.
You can't compare those stats, HR Kings get less good pitches to hit than middle of the order hitters, so those numbers people throw are rarely make any sense when translated to real game action.. not a big fan of the money ball..
When you finally get to see a player LIVE on the field , you notice certain things .... For Juan Gon , what stood out was his MIGHTY crack of the bat when he hit the ball. Juan just sounded louder and crisper than the others. But, what you also noticed with him was even though he was lean and had a long stride - was HOW SLOW he was on the base paths. PAINFULLY SLOW.... he had hustle to ONE base and that was IT.
Like your content. Its on par with Baseball Historian and Baseball Doesn't Exist. Got an idea for you..... obscured baseball movies. Movies like Long Gone, Bingo Long and the Traveling All Stars, the Showtime movie about Satchel Paige, etc. Hit me up if need more titles or want a basic millennial baseball fan/sandlot player. Speaking of sandlot, that might be another idea. Look into sandlot teams and their antics. ;)
Hey! That would be really cool actually. I’ve been wanting to incorporate more pop culture savvy into these vids. Maybe do a baseball movie review corner. I like it!
Nice video... a perspective of someone who watches baseball on "paper". Hey!... go out and smell the grass and feel some dirt in your eyes. This is the kind of persoective that the Cubs followed on order to sign that tall outfielder that previously played for the Braves and I duking forgot his name. Still, it's a nice video.... and Arod should've won. Igor comoquiera MVP.
What exactly did Juan Gonzalez do to steal the MVP? Did he rig the voting? Did intimidate the other players to drop out? WTF kind of idiocy is this? Blame the system, not the player.
That's also the year Brady Anderson hit 50 homers (after 16 the season before) and Cleveland won 99 games which had their fans stuffing the ballot boxes. if you look at the rosters the AL team was mostly mariners, indians and yankees. Plus Joe Carter and Greg Vaughn were added to the team to have a representative.
Im not the biggest baseball journalist fan and i believe their having a large portion of sway in awards is as ridiculous as owners having most of the sway over a commissioner, but imo average/baseline stats like war and ops/era+ have similar inherent problems to normal counting and average stats like average or era. The imaginary replacement level player will differ from year to year, park to park, and position to position, which is fine and all because it obviously differs in real life- but each player and each imaginary replacement-level player they may be graded off of differs in the value they offer and how that translates into wins. For every offense or fielding first player whose counting stats dont always differentiate them from similar players- even the accepted "replacement level" per situation, there are pitchers and hitters on teams like the rangers and rockies. Whether war differentiates every player's performance per park and per game impact, or feasibly can in the calculation of subjective value of all players, is to be seen.
@@shoukatsukai Led the American League in homers in both 1992 (43) and 1993 (46) and had a league-leading 157 RBI in 1998.... Do you even know anything about Baseball?
@@phillip_iv_planetking6354 Griffey hit 56 homers in 1998 and kept pace with Sosa and Mcgwire until August and yet he finished 4th in MVP voting. He didn't even finish that far behind JuanGon in RBIs either (157 vs 146). Add in that Griffey was probably the best five tool player of the 90s and he was robbed of back to back MVPs.
@@phillip_iv_planetking6354 I don't like the argument that playing less games makes him more deserving. But I'd rather take Griffey who hit more homers, stole more bases, and played a good center field over JuanGon who had more rbis and hits. And like Manny Ramirez had almost the exact same season as JuanGon and he never won an MVP. So I'm just confused how this dude won another MVP when everyone was doing the same.
From 1996 - 1999 the Yankees won 3 World Series titles. (The Marlins won the only other one) From 1996 - 1999 the Rangers won 3 MVPs. (The Mariners won the only other one) After Juan Gone drove in 157 RBI... the next year Manny drives in 165... where his MVP at?
Yea ah NO!! Watched Juan Gone play alot in person in the 90s and He was an RBI machine hitting a bit over .305 hitter and had a strong arm. Not like Vlad ot Ichiro but he wasn’t as horrible as many more in the league. He wasn’t a gold glover at all but he wasn’t horrible. He drove in alot of runs and helped those Ranger teams with horrible pitching. Definitely disagree
He stole the MVP twice by doing steroids, let alone not having the stats. One of my most hated atheletes of all-time. Nomar Garciaparra would still be on the ballot if it weren't for Juan Gonzalez. The difference between Nomar and Dustin Pedroia is in Pedey's 2nd year, he won the MVP, Nomar came in 2nd place. Pedroia will have a long battle for his plaque in cooperstown, but that MVP is going to be what gets him in, assuming he does eventually (Probably via the Vets committee). Nomar should have gotten that chance, but thanks to Juan Gonzalez, he didn't. My hopes are someday in 20 or 30 years, the veteran's committee will elect Nomar to the hall.
He wasn’t proved at all that he used steroids. Get off the convenient conspiracy train. If we go by rumors then no one at all should be in the HoF after the year 2000. But… I guess Latinos have to shut up and wait 50-80 years unlike the rest to be treated equally.
@@edrodpr1114 Hey! I found the guy in the comments who brings race into it when nobody was talking about race. FYI, Nomar has hispanic heritage as well (in fact he played for Mexico in the WBC), so it doesn't even work even when you brought it in needlessly. Also, pretty obvious Juan did steroids, either that or he was Adam Dunn minus the natural build of a power hitter, which itself is awfully suspicious. And he played on the same team as Jose Canseco, Pudge Rodriguez, and several other early 90s rangers who did steroids.
I have been looking for new high quality baseball content that isn't old FoolishBB or SB Nation videos for awhile now, and holy shit did you knock it out of the park dude! Awesome work, keep doing what you're doing!
This comment legit put a smile on my face. Thank you friend!
I thought this was Jon Bois commenting lol
This guy don’t know shit
Here's some more you might like..
Baseball Historian
Baseball's Not Dead
Baseball Doesn't Exist
Stark Raving Sports
SportStorm
The Baseball Professor
And That's Baseball
Secret Base
What’s wrong with foolish?
Belle not winning MVP w/the 50-50 season is truly criminal
Letting voters be old asshole writers who get their feelings hurt easily and vote against clear winners is a lesson that still hasn't been learnt yet.
So is his corked bats...😂😂😂
@@truthhurtz8517 Someone still believing corked bats give an advantage in the year 2023 is the true crime here.
Belle was kind of a dick lol. I think that’s why he didn’t win. Sad
@@brianhenry7485 you’re right which is silly but on some level maybe don’t be a complete dick to the people in charge of the awards lol
You have to look for a better research and better info, Juan Gonzalez didn't stole the MVP as you says, Juan Gonzalez earned the MVP for his effort and dedication not using steroids like Alex Rodriguez and others. 😊 And he deserves be in the HOF
Shit u right
Abso…FUCKING lutely!!! Love Juan Gone. FOH with this WAR flawed stat!!!
Except Juan Gonzalez was a steroid user also
Griffey was better😊
My dude! I fall asleep to baseball videos every night and this is the video I will use tonight. Please put new content out every week!
As someone who also falls asleep to baseball videos I consider it a compliment
Juan Gonzalez had 101 RBIs at the 1998 All Star Break. Damn!
That 99 Rangers team was my absolute favorite as a kid. Palmeiro, Gonzalez, Pudge, Clayton. I loved watching them play.
You missed greer
I missing being at the ball park And hearing "next up to bat the Left fielder Ruusttyy Grrrreeer!"
This video literally makes a case for Gonzales for 2x MVP
Great yrs there in Texas, Gonzalez stole the MVPs is this guys video!! GTFOH!!!!!!!!!!
This does a good job talking about RBIs and their value. Runs are more valuable, but that doesn't mean RBIs have no value.
One of the sad parts of baseball, and to me the part I never thought I would see, was the way modern fans are just and narrow minded and just as "medieval" as back in the 2000s, they just do it with different stats now.
I was one of the youngest members of SABR, and I thought I was on the real cutting edge of statical researched. But now it has shifted so that the nerds like me run the game without any thought as to the players they are analyzing. They have no thought to skills like RBIs. It's all about OPS+. That's great, but to be narrow minded and use WAR without any context is just as bone-headed. Guys like Gonzalez wouldn't be my choice for MVP, but a good lineup has to have that one guy that forces pitchers to pitch while thinking about the lineup rotation.
It may no show up in stats, but having one Paul Bunyan that can hit the ball to the moon is one of the reasons, I would argue, that the 1990s exploded in offensive production. Good offenses were built around said player, and said player started playing clean baseball by eating lots of Elephant Growth Hormone that was naturally butchered with steroids.
This is amazing. Great editing and pretty creative video topic. I hadn’t heard Juan Gonzalez in forever haha
Thank you friend!
Also I will be streaming tonight at 7:00 EST on UA-cam with my good friend And That’s Baseball along with PlayoffTanaka and Mike from Stark Raving Sports.
Yessir
Fun thing regarding 9:47 - around that time, they had a rule as well that each player could only win the MVP one time in their career. So, Babe Ruth got it in 1923 (when it appears voting started), and, despite having seasons better than that, he didn't even "receive votes" again until 1931.
Can I just say your “eye popping stats” song with your own instrumental was the absolute best part of the video, thank you so much for that 😂
Oh thank you.
I’m not gonna lie, adding that was so last minute as I was afraid it would be too cheesy. That validation helps affirm my decision
@@nomorefielders Its the secret payoff of watching the whole video. Also as someone who religiously watches secret base/Bailey videos the wit and humor that you put into these makes me question if you’re not secretly part of their writing staff
@@michaelhopkins4538 hahaha man I wish. Thank you for watching though. It’s viewers like you that’ll hopefully put this channel in the same conversation as theirs in the coming months.
@@nomorefielders I think you’re on your way man! Best of luck to you
He didn’t steal the MVP, he was awarded it by know all journalists.
wow, fantastic video man!!! cheers
WAR be damned, in 1996 there's not a soul on the planet that would've picked Mark McLemore for their team over Juan Gonzalez
Well that’s because I wasn’t born yet
Just shows how flawed of a stat WAR actually is.
There is lies, damn lies, then there's statistics.
There's not a single person who'd pick him today
@@tomturbo1317 yep, speaking as a Cleveland fan, I'd be an idiot to turn town 47 more homers. Sorry McLemore
What a return, this may help you approach my sub count
Idk I gotta lot of ground to make up
Love the format
Thank you!
>Don't get fooled by eye popping stats!
>WOWEE LOOK AT THAT WAR OH LAWD
WAR is fake btw
During the 1990's (my 23 to 33 years of age), I lived and worked in the DAFW area. I followed those Rangers and truly enjoyed that 1996-1999 run. So when I read the title and before watching the video, I was all set to write my "the problem with you young MLB fans today is..." response. After watching the video...I agree 100%. And yes, I will admit I was one of those MLB Fans that loved the Saves Stat in 1980's.
Those Rangers teams were truly fun. I loved that tidbit about how they didn’t really know how to celebrate when they won their first division title that year. Another cub stat I had to cut out was that the 96-99 Rangers had more MVPs in that span than any other team in the previous 10 years.
I'm sad it took me so long to find this channel. This is that great sports nerd story telling I absolutely love.
Its ok. You’ve still made it in time for the beginning of a long ride.
Great vid dude! A lil Dorktown foolish and stark influence here but made it your own. Plus the chart at 7:20 tells me that Cals MVPs are legit ! As an Os fan I totally agree👍🏽
All time Shortstop for an all time team
Don’t really understand why you’ll dock Maury for getting caught a league leading 13 times when it’s like a 90% success rate.
Yeah tbh that thought came across to me while editing the script, I think it’s more to prove a bigger point that there are some stats that come with an asterisk even if it’s at 20% opacity.
90% success rate is elite, but it was more to say “Maury Wills’ season defining stat wasn’t bulletproof”
@@nomorefielders Ya but 90% success while stealing, especially at that volume, does make it bullet proof? A fun thing to do too is adjusting OPS and/or Slugging by turning singles into doubles where he stole a base or even triples if he stole 2. Then remove the hit/walk when he’s caught. Let’s make stealing great again.
@@parkermaki3799 actually I legitimately had this thought a few months ago (you can check my Twitter to verify), but I know what you’re saying about Wills. It was such a high volume so it didn’t really matter that much that he led the league in CS.
Just found your channel. Love your visual aesthetic and content. Keep these up!
Will do
Thank you!
Already liked some of the vids on this channel, saw the MF DOOM poster in your room, and immediately subbed
"Having over 25 baseball reference tabs open at once isn't good for my mental health or my CPU" Literally me right now at 2 am thanks to videos like this😂. You're producing great content and the little cultural references you sprinkle in are fantastic. I could watch these all day.
Thank you! I could make these videos all day as well!
Just found the channel and this was pretty good
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
It's quite obvious you haven't watched Juan Gonzalez play. You've just watched UA-cam clips. Without a doubt anyone that watched baseball during these years would agree that Juan Gonzalez was one of the most feared hitters in the league. He absolutely smoked the ball. Also absolutely the best hitter on that team.
Doesnt make him MVP worthy. JuanGon winning MVP in 1996 would be the same if Pete Alonso won MVP in 2023. Feared hitter, not MVP worthy
And in each of his MVP years, Arod, Griffey and Albert Belle were just better players than him
@nelsongalvez2577 is absolutely correct. Seeing Juan Gonzalez play through 1992-1999 was no doubt one of the most feared hitters in baseball. This video makes a compelling argument but it's based on sabermetrics and stat cast garbage which didn't exist at that time. Where a team finished in the standings meant something back then and did impact MVP voting. Not this participation trophy shit that goes on today. Albert Belle was gonna win zero awards. Dude was a complete beast but the media hated him and that's all it takes and was a bit of a dick. Now Griffey and Arod I'm getting there. As someone who has lived in Seattle the last 30 years. No doubt in my mind they got snubbed due to Seattle being such a small market. Not to mention the Mariners were never that good. I mean seriously in this town Dan Wilson is a legend......just sayin lol. When you say Seattle Mariners everyone know who Griffey is and that's it. In the grand scheme of things when it comes to MLB as a whole, Seattle gets forgotten about and always has and always will. No doubt in my mind that's why Arod and Griffey were passed up.
PLEASE keep making videos. These are incredible.
Trust me I have no plans of stopping
You earned a sub for life once I saw the clip from ‘In Bruges’ @16:15
I low key forgot I used that clip. But yeah Ralph Fiennes is a treasure
it’s been a long 4 months. we love to see a new vid
It’s good to be back
I'm so happy 😊 I found your channel awesome videos very entertaining and informative 👏
Great work! Love the style! I’m getting foolish baseball vibes
I def vibe with that
Oh BOY that was good
also thanks for the shoutout!
I wish I could’ve done a bigger shoutout but as always….budget constraints
i'm not complaining, it's always appreciated
Yeah but he (or a Rangers secretary or something) signed a baseball card I mailed to him along with a self-addressed stamped envelope in like 1999 so that kind of cancels out the negative dWAR in my heart
Dude that’s awesome his xHEART is 1.000
@@nomorefielders chipper and larry walker also got back to me so they're all tied in that stat
You can't convince me 104/13 is a bad SB ratio.
the 1952 NL MVP vote was so egregious that even voters themselves said it made no sense that Hank Sauer won over Robin Roberts
One of these years he was close to hitting 100 rbi before the break
Banger vid dude keep it up I love your content
Thank you!
I cringe so hard going back and looking at mvp and cy young votings from the past. I know they didn't have war or other super advanced metrics back then, but still some of them were so obviously wrong
Oh it gets bad… really really bad
Yes they were!
I don't...advanced metrics are bullshit for the most part.
*cries in Ted Williams mvp voting*
Albert Belle and his corked bats...😂😂
Those Rangers sure stole many AL MVP from 1996-2003
JuanGon = 1996 and 1998
Pudge over Pedro in 1999
AROD (playing for a 70 win team) over other AL players
The worst MVP the Rangers stole was 1974 with Jeff Burroughs
Ok I’ll bite, is it RBIs or just RBI?
it's whatever you think it is the split second before saying it
I say RBIs, but I am an older MLB Fan.
RBI, RBIs is for people who say “The MLB”
Keep upthe videos bro, youll do great yoyre like a perfect mix between jon bois vibe and foolish bailey's vibe with a little something extra
That’s one of the best comps I’ve ever received
Would've been cool to see an OPS/OPS+ comparison, because Gonzales's 1dot OPS is quite impressive
145 OPS+ in 1996, 149 OPS+ in 1998.
That is uh, not MVP level for an offense-first MVP winner
You put Maury Wills' 13 caught stealing in a negative context. He had an 89% success rate, a remarkable achievement of a player running so often.
I don't agree with almost anything you said. Saying a guy that missed 30 games & still drove in 144 runs is ridiculous that he wasn't the best player on the team in 96. He's the guy they counted on to drive in runs (you know that thing you can't win any games without doing) & did that better than anybody. he deserved that MVP he didn't steal it. Not going to waste my time watching the last half of this.
Sounds very closed-minded, nice comment.
To be fair, a good part of the reason the MVP is often not the highest WAR player on the team is because team aces tend to get disproportionally high WAR numbers, yet pitchers rarely win MVP unless they truly have completely dominant seasons. 2002 Miguel Tejada is a good example, given he was easily the best position player on the team but had fewer WAR than his teammate Barry Zito who won the CYA that year.
In retrospect, the writers not selecting Albert Belle in 1995 should have been cause for more outcry. It shows that writers are the real problem with the game.
Look at the modern case with Curt Schilling. By every objective measure, Curt Schilling is a close to first ballot or first ballot lock HOFer. Why is he still not in? Because he committed a thought crime. The same guy who won the Clemente Man of the Year award in 2002 has "character issues"? Writers and what they bring is a throwback to a bygone age, and now they serve absolutely no purpose. I can get a quote from any player, watch any highlight and do anything a writer can. I don't need them.
99% of videos like this can be summarized as "Baseball Reference didn't exist yet".
Big true
He did not steal anything, except 2 bases. Baseball writers voted for him!
Joe Cronin vs. Lou Gehrig vote is wild. Cronin is literally behind Gehrig in every stat. Maybe Cronin was a monster on defense, I have no idea, but he was strongly dominated at the plate.
Great video!
Thank you!
As a lifetime Ranger fan, I think you bring up a lot of good points. It's easy to tear holes in Juando sabremetrically. But I'll tell you what wins games-scoring more runs than the other team. It's not something you can really quantify, but there's value in a guy who finds a way bring guys home. We criticize guys who seem to always leave runners in scoring position. Juan was the opposite of that guy. There are players who have a knack for doing that. Fred McGriff, Bernie Williams, and Garrett Anderson, and Adrian Beltre come to mind.
I'm not sure who your favorite team is or how old you are, but the Rangers have always been dogged by poor starting pitching. Since Gonzalez helped to alleviate that issue, he provided VALUE. So who was the best player in 1996? For me it's Ken Griffey Jr. But that's purely subjective.
I enjoyed the video. I'll check out your other work.
Still clueless as to how Juan Gone beat out pretty much the 5 or 6 names right under him that year. How did arod not take it home….he scored 52 more runs and had a ba .44 points higher!
Because he got hot in 96 2nd half, and pretty much lead the rangers to the playoffs.
Great video, great channel. More people should subscribe to this.
Were you alive to see him play? Juan was never a great defensive player but he wasn't terrible either.
Never thought I’d see someone playing the “were you even alive?” card but that’s why I specifically said I wished I had more video to look at. But from the few clips I saw he clearly looked a step behind the ball.
@@nomorefielders Exactly! You made a 20 minute video about him not deserving his mvp's without more evidence. I think 46 errors in 17 seasons isn't bad. But what do i know I'm not a know it all baseball youtuber. BTW those Mariner teams were loaded with Edgar Martinez and Jay Buhner too. Do you know who they are? Since you weren't born yet.
@@Nick-gk6us Jay Buhner is the guy from that one Action Bronson verse
@@Nick-gk6us also you still measure defensive prowess by errors? Ok
@@nomorefielders no but it shows he wasn’t a defensive liability like you think. I’ve been a ranger fan since the early 90s and I’ve seen bad outfielders. Jose Canseco taking a ball off the head and Nelson Cruz losing the World Series 2011.
Gonzalez had an arm... he caught the ball at the warning track in right field (Rangers Bullpen) & through a missile to third base.
He would single handly rip the Yankees.
In a general context, how the reaction would be to the 1996 AL MVP selection... don't hate on the wrong guy (Gonzalez, who was damn great at what he did best). The voters just didn't know any better about the whole matrices in statkeeping that makes it all the more (in)famous in baseball.
Wouldn’t WAR Share be offset if more people got voted one year over another? Maybe I’m confused
Yeah that’s true. I like to think it balances out and the margin of error isn’t too egregious. I should’ve probably limited it to the top 20 vote getters but you live and you learn.
I actually watched The Rangers a lot back then when it happened. You saying Mark Mclemore and Rusty Greer are better based on some need formula is lame. Twisting numbers and reality at the same time to benefit your narrative. You didn’t see the games you’re too young. You’re opinion is invalid.
Are you the real Jim Harbaugh?
@@robberonbrent yes Unless you’re an Ohio state fan
I say the same thing, I am 37. Juan Gonzalez was one of the most feared hitters in his prime.. I mean feared, before vlad Guerrero , there was Juan, he can hit a home run with a fast ball at the knees, few major leaguers can do that. Probably Harper is the only player I can see heating an outside or inside pitch at the knees out the ball park and he is Bryan Harper..
144 RBI s in 132 games is crazy no matter what little stat you throw in there.. Trust me. This guy was a terror , and pitchers feared him so he barely got any good pitch to hit, look where Juan had to dig his balls from for homers and hits and you tell me this guy was not insane, not close, those numbers you are talking don't really make no sense . sorry
That's ludicrous
*Ludacrush
Shout out to the printed picture of 2021 Jed Lowrie 🙌
I still have it if you want me to send it as a souvenir
Subbed. Beautiful.
Appreciate it!
At the end of the day he still drove in those runs. Nobody says JJ Redick was a better shooter than Bird cause he shot more 3s. Gonzalez was a monster. If you luck out and get more opportunities with runners on base, your numbers will go down,,,Mo Vaughn OPS with runners on was higher because of it.
new No More Fielders Content? Opening Day? life is good
Indeed
He didn’t steal anything
He stole my heart
'98 is arguable and i stand with the voters because you need runs to win and rbis are always a 100% chance to either get back from a deficit or win a close game there were surefire better candidates but a batted in run season that hasnt been seen for 48 years is historical
Except... Albert Belle had just 5 RBIs less than Gonzalez that season. It's not like he was blowing away the other competition. Manny Ramirez convincingly beat JuanGon the very next year and he also didn't win MVP.
In 98 gonzales was at one point on pace to break hack wilson’s record he led league in rbi’s i think he earned it in 98
Very entertaining way to brain wash and try to change what really happened. Gonzalez OWNED those years and was the overall best player when you combine RBIs, HRs, BA, and taking a team that wasn’t in the playoffs in decades all the way to the end, and even breaking the October record for HRs in the playoffs. Only Ken Griffey Jr was at par with Juan Gonzalez at that time. Give credit to Juan Igor… who should be in the Hall of Fame already! Even Ivan agrees with me
Again I’m not saying he was bad by any means. Just that with the benefit of hindsight, there were clearly better players in the league both years he won.
96 Alex Rodriguez has the best season for a SS ever. 358/36/123 won a batting title and played elite defense at SS.
While I enjoyed the video, I disagree. Juan Gonzalez was an absolute beast and I will never forget the summer he chased Hack Wilson's RBI record, that was the stuff of legend.
Fair enough. I think what most people don’t understand is that I’m not calling Juan Gonzalez bad by any means, just saying that there were more deserving candidates at the time in my opinion.
I definitely see your point and it was well presented. As someone who grew up idolizing Griffey and Thomas (like most 90’s kids), Juan sure captured our hearts and minds for a few years and I keep forgetting he isn’t in the Hall of Fame. That’s how prolific he was at the time.
@@treibjIn the 2000s, we had Ryan Howard.
You can't compare those stats, HR Kings get less good pitches to hit than middle of the order hitters, so those numbers people throw are rarely make any sense when translated to real game action.. not a big fan of the money ball..
Sweet, sweet RBIs
When you finally get to see a player LIVE on the field , you notice certain things .... For Juan Gon , what stood out was his MIGHTY crack of the bat when he hit the ball. Juan just sounded louder and crisper than the others. But, what you also noticed with him was even though he was lean and had a long stride - was HOW SLOW he was on the base paths. PAINFULLY SLOW.... he had hustle to ONE base and that was IT.
Like your content. Its on par with Baseball Historian and Baseball Doesn't Exist.
Got an idea for you..... obscured baseball movies. Movies like Long Gone, Bingo Long and the Traveling All Stars, the Showtime movie about Satchel Paige, etc. Hit me up if need more titles or want a basic millennial baseball fan/sandlot player.
Speaking of sandlot, that might be another idea. Look into sandlot teams and their antics. ;)
Hey!
That would be really cool actually. I’ve been wanting to incorporate more pop culture savvy into these vids. Maybe do a baseball movie review corner. I like it!
@@nomorefielders dude, def watch long gone and do a breakdown. Hell, breakdown all baseball films lol
All I know is that I have a signed baseball card by Juan Gonzalez so im good, is cool having a baseball card signed by a 2 Time MVP 😂😂😂😂
Nice video... a perspective of someone who watches baseball on "paper". Hey!... go out and smell the grass and feel some dirt in your eyes. This is the kind of persoective that the Cubs followed on order to sign that tall outfielder that previously played for the Braves and I duking forgot his name. Still, it's a nice video.... and Arod should've won. Igor comoquiera MVP.
All these new stars stilll don't help the writers
What exactly did Juan Gonzalez do to steal the MVP? Did he rig the voting? Did intimidate the other players to drop out? WTF kind of idiocy is this? Blame the system, not the player.
Dude… it’s a UA-cam video
@@nomorefielders it is?
Great MF Doom picture
Thank you. It was a gift.
Favorite stat from juan gone, 2x mvp, 3x all-star. Wasn't even an all-star in 96.
The fans and managers knew better
Also 6x silver slugger
That's also the year Brady Anderson hit 50 homers (after 16 the season before) and Cleveland won 99 games which had their fans stuffing the ballot boxes. if you look at the rosters the AL team was mostly mariners, indians and yankees. Plus Joe Carter and Greg Vaughn were added to the team to have a representative.
Jon Bois… is that you?
Man I wish
Im not the biggest baseball journalist fan and i believe their having a large portion of sway in awards is as ridiculous as owners having most of the sway over a commissioner, but imo average/baseline stats like war and ops/era+ have similar inherent problems to normal counting and average stats like average or era. The imaginary replacement level player will differ from year to year, park to park, and position to position, which is fine and all because it obviously differs in real life- but each player and each imaginary replacement-level player they may be graded off of differs in the value they offer and how that translates into wins. For every offense or fielding first player whose counting stats dont always differentiate them from similar players- even the accepted "replacement level" per situation, there are pitchers and hitters on teams like the rangers and rockies. Whether war differentiates every player's performance per park and per game impact, or feasibly can in the calculation of subjective value of all players, is to be seen.
Your "Most RBIs in a season by an AL player since 1950" quote at the end, is incorrect. Manny Ramirez had 165 in 1999 for the then Indians.
Homie, I meant at the time when he did it, which was 1998.
How can you possibly say that Frank Thomas didn't lead his team in WAR in 1993 and 1994
Giving follow due to MF doom poster
Great video. Juan gonzalez is a known bandit.
youre entertaining as fuck dude keep it up!!
Legendary comment. Thank you friend!
Of course he is an MF DOOM fan. All caps.
Man's right to know
Contemplate that at these hands write to flow
It ain't done yet
He let ya know some of the results come sunset
Nice DOOM poster
Yooo thanks for noticing. I literally messed up that shot to make it look like I was drowing in the frame on purpose just to get the poster in there.
Juan was the man
In Texas he was def wasn't when he was in detroit
this video is the perfect example of why WAR is such a flawed "stat"
Tell me with a straight face, even without using WAR, that Juan Gon deserved 1996 MVP over Griffey.
@@shoukatsukai Arod was the one that was truly robbed. 358 /36/ 123 9.6 war as a short stop is insane and hands down the best season for a SS ever
You bleep cocaine?
These new dorky stats is part of the reason people have stopped watching.
Honestly agree
@@nomorefielders I played a long time and none of this swing for fences crap makes any sense.
it made me start watching
No love for Brady in 96, oof
It’s bc he was just too dang cool
No he did not steal it
I saw him do it tho
There was no war back then dunce
He didn't lead the league in any of the offensive categories they used (HR, RBI, AVG, SB) back then dunce
@@shoukatsukai Led the American League in homers in both 1992 (43) and 1993 (46) and had a league-leading 157 RBI in 1998....
Do you even know anything about Baseball?
@@phillip_iv_planetking6354 Griffey hit 56 homers in 1998 and kept pace with Sosa and Mcgwire until August and yet he finished 4th in MVP voting. He didn't even finish that far behind JuanGon in RBIs either (157 vs 146). Add in that Griffey was probably the best five tool player of the 90s and he was robbed of back to back MVPs.
@@shoukatsukai Yeah but Juan had a better BA at .318
Hit 50 doubles to Griffey's 33.
And got more hits.
All the while playing less games.
@@phillip_iv_planetking6354 I don't like the argument that playing less games makes him more deserving. But I'd rather take Griffey who hit more homers, stole more bases, and played a good center field over JuanGon who had more rbis and hits. And like Manny Ramirez had almost the exact same season as JuanGon and he never won an MVP. So I'm just confused how this dude won another MVP when everyone was doing the same.
DON’T GET FOOLED BY EYE-POPPING STATS
JUST. DONT. DO IT
From 1996 - 1999 the Yankees won 3 World Series titles. (The Marlins won the only other one)
From 1996 - 1999 the Rangers won 3 MVPs. (The Mariners won the only other one)
After Juan Gone drove in 157 RBI... the next year Manny drives in 165... where his MVP at?
They finally learned their lesson
Damn I love me some Kevin Zorbo
Yea ah NO!! Watched Juan Gone play alot in person in the 90s and He was an RBI machine hitting a bit over .305 hitter and had a strong arm. Not like Vlad ot Ichiro but he wasn’t as horrible as many more in the league. He wasn’t a gold glover at all but he wasn’t horrible. He drove in alot of runs and helped those Ranger teams with horrible pitching. Definitely disagree
Agree to a disagree
He stole the MVP twice by doing steroids, let alone not having the stats. One of my most hated atheletes of all-time. Nomar Garciaparra would still be on the ballot if it weren't for Juan Gonzalez. The difference between Nomar and Dustin Pedroia is in Pedey's 2nd year, he won the MVP, Nomar came in 2nd place. Pedroia will have a long battle for his plaque in cooperstown, but that MVP is going to be what gets him in, assuming he does eventually (Probably via the Vets committee). Nomar should have gotten that chance, but thanks to Juan Gonzalez, he didn't. My hopes are someday in 20 or 30 years, the veteran's committee will elect Nomar to the hall.
He wasn’t proved at all that he used steroids. Get off the convenient conspiracy train. If we go by rumors then no one at all should be in the HoF after the year 2000. But… I guess Latinos have to shut up and wait 50-80 years unlike the rest to be treated equally.
@@edrodpr1114 Hey! I found the guy in the comments who brings race into it when nobody was talking about race. FYI, Nomar has hispanic heritage as well (in fact he played for Mexico in the WBC), so it doesn't even work even when you brought it in needlessly. Also, pretty obvious Juan did steroids, either that or he was Adam Dunn minus the natural build of a power hitter, which itself is awfully suspicious. And he played on the same team as Jose Canseco, Pudge Rodriguez, and several other early 90s rangers who did steroids.
What about Mark McGuire and Albert Belle's corked bats...😂😂