Its Time To Save The Major League Baseball Hall Of Fame From Itself
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- Опубліковано 21 вер 2024
- The Major League Baseball Hall of Fame is in trouble and may soon lose relevancy and credibility if changes aren't made in the near future. Let's take a deep dive into how we got here and how we can fix it.
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#mlb #baseball #halloffame
What changes do you think need to be made to the HOF?
Additionally at 4:36 that is a picture of hall of fame pitcher Pete Alexander also known as Grover Cleveland Alexander, not Cy Young. Got some pictures mixed up in the editing process. I guess I am a jabroni 😂
Whole thing should be overhauled. Too much OPINION involved. It's not supposed to be opinionated, it's supposed to be 'how did that guy do against his MLB peers'. That's it. Simple.
The problem with some of your suggestions on changing the voting process are:
1) Forcing voters to vote for 10 players... Many years, there aren't 10 guys worth voting for.
2) Fan votes... Are you serious? Are we talking about the same fans that screw up the all star voting every year?
too many guys trying to make statements with their votes by punishing guys who deserve...every yr i see guys who played like 2 seasons as a bench player get more votes than guys who played 10+ yrs with multiple allstars
I think there should be a fan vote where it’s a pool of any eliminated players with at least one vote in past induction years. Only one player is selected every year.
Get rid of Sportswriters having any power whatsoever. They are biased douchebags.
Jeff Kent the worst snub ever !!! 290 career batting average ! 377 hrs !! 1518 rbis !! 2461 hits ! Show me another second baseman with those numbers ! Almost forgot won an MVP in the height of the steroid era !
And he was a teammate of Bonds. I feel he would have had more MVP love had he not been overshadowed by Bonds.
@@sirekumasutra7022 it’s just hard to believe that a second baseman with those numbers is not in the Hall of Fame. I believe he has the best numbers of any second baseman ever.
@@sirekumasutra7022he won an MVP because of the protection Bonds gave him
@@jamesonrapp281 It also doesn't help that his career before that while decent was also nothing mind blowing. I wouldn't be surprised if it led to some people thinking he may be juicing.
Whitaker should get in before Kent. 51st in WAR amongst all players, 10th ranked 2B, all nine above & below him are in the HOF
Fan voting isn't a terrible idea but current HOFers voting is an excellent idea. Many of those guys played with and against those on the ballots. They would arguably have the best perspective on who gets in.
Honestly though, how all the individual awards are decided is pretty bogus.
Yeah I would say the fan vote would be weighed the least because of obvious bias and issues we’ve seen with all star voting. But when even the writers are saying the system is broken, I’d give anything new a try at this point
Disagree. Have you ever seen what fan voting does to the All Star roster? The reason writers vote is the idea of impartiality, at least as far as being impartial no matter the team you played for. Naturally, if fans vote, there will end up being scrubs in the Hall due to trolling, undeserving players who were fan favorites in the hall.
You’re not wrong with the brigading that fans will do to the vote. That’s why my proposal is IF the fans are allowed to vote, their votes are weighed much less than experts and analysts votes for example
@@JabroniBaseball That's why I've been a firm believer in the logic: THE FAN VOTE IS EQUAL TO 5% OF THE BALLOT. 5% is the sweet spot for a fan vote: 5% is not enough of a share of the ballot for the fans to get a meme player into the HOF unless the regular voters were already close to letting the player in anyways, but 5% is enough that a player the fans vote in would be guaranteed to make the ballot next season even if no other voter votes for them- which is the type of thing you'd want for the fans' choice.
Love the idea of the HOFers voting. Fans voting would be good in small weight and should be weighted where a player can't be removed from the ballot after 1 year if the fans support them enough
These writers need to get over themselves. The whole "steroid era" pretty much saved baseball after the strike. Everyone turned a blind eye to it when Bonds, Sosa and McGuire were going at it. Once they served their purpose, that's when everything came out.
Also, I've been a lifelong Donny Baseball fan boy. I'd like to see him in.
And Pete Rose. And Joe Jackson.
The fact that they put Selig in there is a blow to their credibility especially.
Not everyone turned a blind eye....
Great comment. It makes me sick that Bud Selig is enshrined in Cooperstown, while Barry Bonds is not.
@@KidFresh71Selig wasn't voted in by the writers, but by the veterans committee, which is made up of former players & executives
Sorry but I don’t think Lincecum is a Hall of Famer. He had a couple GREAT seasons and some very good ones but that’s not enough. If a guy like King Felix doesn’t get a lot of votes and was better for longer than no hope for Timmy.
Naming lincecum as one of his 3 big omissions really just ruined this entire video and made me question his baseball knowledge big time
@@adamalexander3963 bro you’re not wrong at all🤣the MLB is not the NBA. He should’ve stuck to guys like Sweet Lou and Pete Rose if he really wanted to make a case. Hell make the whole video about Billy Wagner but cmon not Timmy
@@adamalexander3963 Same here. It's not even debatable. He had three good seasons, and one other pretty decent season. Not even on the bubble.
Tim's peak was on such a higher level than Felix's. I got nothing but respect for King Felix but The Freak was on another level.
@@andrem.thomas332 not really, he had 2 hof tier seasons. need a peak of 4-5 like koufax. and timmyjim is my favorite pitcher
Curt Schilling is not in simply because of his politics. The guys was the ultimate gamer, regardless of his opinions.
Being evil is not is not politcal. The players in the Hall represent the image also.
Mister hustle is not in. Rose even had a(tolerable) personality.
@@kennethpeterson4068 “evil” is an interesting standard. There are many evil bastards in the Hall, and if you disagree, you have no business in this conversation.
But you think Curt is especially evil? Why? Did he kill someone? I know he made a big error in revealing Tim Wakefield’s news…but is that SO evil that he should not be honored in the Hall?
Who else is too “evil” in your mind?
Curt Schilling absolutely belongs in the Hall of Fame, no question whatsoever.
The man defrauded an entire state out of 10s of millions of dollars and then went on to be very loud and vocal about his very hateful opinions. Unfortunately for Curt, in the year 2024, people try not to give recognition to garbage people regardless of what they have accomplished. Curt forgot to human beings get to decide who gets remembered, be mad at him for destroying his own legacy.
@@kennethpeterson4068 😂😂😂 Evil??? Please…..Enlighten us as to why….
There is no way Tim Lincecum had a long enough peak to be considered for the HOF. Yes he was absolutely fantastic for a few seasons but it wasn’t long enough
There’s still a lot of recency bias when it comes Lincecum. Most of the guys who run these baseball channels “grew up” watching him so they have that weird nostalgia. When comparing him to pitchers of past eras who had great peaks but didn’t make the hall of fame(Fernando Valenzuela, Rick Sutcliffe, Mike Scott) he doesn’t even stack up to them.
@@joshdelagarza231 There was a 3 year stretch or so where Lincecum was an absolute beast but you are correct with your assessment. I remember Fernandomania. Dwight Gooden had a longer peak as well.
All these guys need to do is look at the stats. It’s more than obvious Tim wasn’t good for long enough
@@joshdelagarza231 His 4 year peak is a top three stretch in MLB history statistically. But I agree his career was cut too short to make the hall.
It will never make sense to me that David Ortiz was on a list of players linked with PED’s and gets in first ballot but Barry Bonds can never touch the hall
Yup he was busted
@@DanielSong39 Not to mention whenever this gets brought up, people came to defend him.
@@Iamhungey Ken Griffey Jr. was one of the most obvious juicers around but still loved the Kid!
Let them all in, I say! PEDs are just part of the sport, it would be naive to assume otherwise
@@DanielSong39 It would be more of the lesser evil at least, especially due to the hypocrisy involved.
Few people mention Steve Garvey in discussions such as these. Ten-time all-star, a league MVP with MVP votes in nine seasons, and four gold gloves. He was one of the most well-known players of his era.
@@toddsmith5715 38 career WAR. No. Nor Fred Lynn.
As others have mentioned Keith Hernandez played in the same era and was a much better player by most metrics
@@DanielSong39 That he was.
@@DanielSong39 anytime someone used all star appearances as their argument, you know that person is a moron.
@@toddsmith5715 One thing that's clear to me is that there are a lot of great, memorable players who are not in the Hall of Fame
No one is saying that Garvey wasn't a stud, he clearly was
I don't think the Hall of Fame would be watered down if it had 500-1000 players for example but that's a matter of opinion
Kenny Loften for me, absolute nightmare on the base pads. Robbing people in centerfield. He just did everything well.
*Selfish. Clubhouse Cancer. Oh, It's Base Paths, Not"Pads".*
@@rUsHiSm
I kinda like 'on the base pads'. I might start using this as well. Just to annoy the too- tightly-starched, conservative, old-timey traditions preservers.
Kenny Lofton and Lou Whitaker are the two most obvious omissions, I really don't get. Both were respected and beloved by their peers, as well as fans. Not a good look for Cooperstown to have them excluded. Veterans committee needs to fix this ASAP.
Amen. Lofton was a KEY part of the most potent offense and one of the best teams (the Indians) in the late 90s. And his defense was Gold Glove level. He should be in.
One of my all time favorites
If those guys are HOFers, then Andruw Jones is a HOFer
Are you making a point of Andruw jones not being deserving? Or are you saying he should’ve been mentioned as well?
@@RupertMumphrey Jones is a pretty easy choice due to his fielding excellence and peak value
Willie Randolph, Kenny Lofton would be fine choices for the same reasons
Simmons had a good chance but petered out too early
@@DanielSong39 I know, I just wanted to understand the phrasing.
Andruw Jones not being in is ridiculous.
It’s the hall of fame, not the hall of ethics.
writers gotta take their personal issues with players out of the equation
I agree, but I also don't think it is a bad thing to keep some people out based on them being just terrible people. Like, lets say Wander Franco had the career we all thought he might have, and then after retirement, but before he was up for induction, the news about him being a scumbag came out. Don't you agree that the hall of fame should not let him in?
On the other hand, despite thinking Schilling is an ass, he shouldn't be kept out just because he's an ass.
Kirby Puckett got in so there you go
Writers tend to be inconsistent and hypocritical about these things
@@snerdterguson I think it’s unlikely that he’d be the only one in Cooperstown. I think what he did is despicable, but baseball also dealt with it long before the hall of fame became an issue.
@@DanielSong39 Even more- the very first class had Ty Cobb; even if it's claimed most of the POS stories were a biased biographer, there's claims Cobb threw at least one game.
What do you think about Al Oliver and/or Dave Parker getting in?
Get em both in there. They were beasts for their time
I wonder if Parker should have hung on for few more years to get to 3k hits.
The voters would not have been able to say no there.
Both should be in.
I’m a Giants fan. Timmy was my hero but he is not a Hall of Famer. I still think you need to play at a high level for at least a decade. Timmy fell apart after like five seasons.
if a person gets in on the 8th ballot, it doesn't mean they should have gotten in earlier. It means that in those earlier years, there was probably people more deserving to go in. Maybe the voters only voted a handful of people and hadn't really looked into a players numbers.
You’re spot on with that. I was more so talking about the voters who didn’t vote for a player on ballots 1-6 for example, while also not using all 10 of their votes. But then on ballots 7 voting for a player all of a sudden
Dave Stieb needs to be in. The numbers are really good when you look at the analytics, but for me what puts him in, is how little he actually pitched prior to breaking in with Toronto.
Imagine playing 20 years in MLB. Having 569 Homeruns, 3,020 Hits, 1,835 RBI and a career .288 average and not being in the Hall.
@@oscarwinner2034 He pissed dirty and then threw Miguel Tejada under the bus….then lied in front on Congress….His stance…I didn’t intentionally inject myself….Bullshit…..
At worst he’s a liar and a cheat who earned the notoriety and isn’t deserving of enshrinement. At best he’s a dumb shit for blindly injecting himself with something not given to him by a Dr….while being under a microscope of alleged drug use. They don’t make em dumber than that.
If bonds and Clemens aren't in, then no way does Palmiero get in
What makes you think pitchers are more talented now? Velocity? Spin rate? I would argue that pitchers not being able to go deep into games and a reliance on the strikeout makes them LESS talented. They have less to worry about. Less workload. More rest...and yet, they can't stay healthy because they try to throw every pitch at max velocity. That doesn't make them better.
The DH as well.
Velocity makes hitters less effective, so yes.
@@dash_r_media No. It doesn't. Location makes hitters less effective. Changing eye level makes hitters less effective. Sequences that effect timing makes hitters less effective. Velocity does very little at the highest level.
I absolutely agree with you regarding how players are chosen for the HoF. Boycotting the steroid era players out of spite is a solid example of how ludicrous the current system is. And, your explanation of why there are numerous selection methods other than the Baseball Writers is spot on correct. We definitely need better selection criteria and a better selection process, but who is going to make those changes? Who has the power and the authority to make those decisions? I think this is a classic Catch 22 situation akin to expecting Congress to pass a budget on time.
MLB, League Presidents, HOFers, on and on
Mandating that each ballot contain 10 votes is ludicrous. What if the member honestly does not think there are 10 worthy candidates. I like the idea of allowing as many selections as desired much better. This way nobody has to not-vote for a sure-fire candidate in order to spare another from dropping off.
it's a terrible idea.
They don’t have to vote for ten unless it was changed, ten is the maximum. To address your second point, there are never more than ten sure fire shoe-in HOFers, usually only one or two.
I’m here to give Dale Murphy some love.
Murphy and Mattingly are the 2 name most mention on this topic. Murphy's BA is what's keeping him out, 265!
Babe Ruth 95.1% Ha! How can they be taken seriously?
Makes absolutely no sense
@@JabroniBaseball Not only that, but the votes method is also kind of bullshit in many other ways. When Jackie Robinson only made the HOF by four votes, that should say why the vote totals should not be rendered holy figures.
Who else was on the ballot.
It was the first HOF ballot, the mother of logjams.
@@luddite4change449 everyone it was the first ballot.
10 is a ridiculous number considering there’s a lot more baseball players then in the 1930s
I can’t believe this hasn’t changed at all in close to 100 years
WOW. That's an important point I missed.
Even though there are nearly twice as many teams and almost 2.5 times as many players (assuming 20 men on a roster back in the 40s), I don't think the number of superstars and Hall of Fame caliber players nearly doubled. Presumably, they are more spread out instead of the Yankees having so many.
And it's not just the greater number of teams, it's the fact that a starting lineup is 10 players now thanks to the DH, and we have a 5-man starting pitcher rotation vs. the 3-man rotation in the 1930s.
Dale Murphy needs to be in the Hall too
Stealing popcorn from the kid is keeping Mattingly out.
Oh, and he once took a leak in Kansas City. The bastard!
Votto will get in. Hernandez, Whitaker, Andru Jones, Bill Dahlen, Dick Allen, Dave Parker, Schilling, Lofton, Tommy J, Kent should all be in
Lofton 130 HRs and 770 RBIs he will never get in
@@TimmyPruitt166 His fielding and baserunning were elite
He had a great peak too
@@DanielSong39 he has some of the weakest offense numbers for anybody with that many yrs, what they call production that wins games.
Votto should have far more hits and HR spending his career on that tiny ballpark. He's borderline, definitely hall of very good.
Naahh....Votto is a slam dunk....he is a darling of the writers
Dale Murphy
Fred McGriff
Don Mattingly
Should all be in. Donnie Baseball was literally a face if not the face of baseball from 85 to 90. And was statistically the best player in baseball in the late 80s.
Mattingly is extremely borderline. I would not vote for him but if he was elected I would not view it as some sort of outrage. He was the best player in the AL over a four year stretch.
@@BriggsSeekins LMAO, Donnie Baseball had way better stats than Murphy and Mcgriff did if u take the best 10 yrs of their career just not in HRs. And Donnie played in the harder American League with better batting comp. than the national League just had 1 good hitter Tony G. Murphy is a career 265 hitter!
@@joeblood1050 I was very happy when Fred McGriff was put in!
10 Year Peaks
WAR Avg. OBP SLG HR
Mattingly 4.0 .310 .361 .479 22
Olerud 4.8 .305 .411 .484 20
Beltran 5.6 .285 .367 .510 29
B. Williams 4.9 .312 .395 .507 25
D. Parker 4.1 .305 .354 .496 23
A. Belle 4.0 .298 .373 .570 41
Hernandez 5.1 .303 .394 .448 13
Even going on 10 year peak and not career, if Mattingly deserves it, then there are sure a lot of other players that do too...
McGriff did get in
Tim Lincecum was a God to me. As a young Giants fan growing up in the early 2000s, he absolutely CAPTIVATED not just Giants fans but even those of the opposing teams. The amount of presence he had whenever he stepped on the mound was nothing short of mind boggling. I remember being at the game where he was presented with his second Cy Young Award, and 10 year old me was thinking to myself that he just HAD to be in the hall, because it just didn't make sense to me how anyone could just be that good and not be hall of fame worthy. All these years later, and I knew he most likely wouldn't make the hall due to his injuries, but I still feel like the sheer and utter dominance he held for those years just needs to be acknowledged.
I couldn't agree more with you. I'm a Mets fan and I tried to catch every single Lincecum start I could. I know a lot of other fans of other teams that felt the same way. The dude defined what an ace was for a generation
@@JabroniBaseball He's such a fascinating person with an equally fascinating career, and I've even been greatly considering making a huge video on my own channel all about his rise and eventual fall, because there's so much more to his story that most people don't know, and it's a story that people need to hear
The Hall of Fame is a museum. Go to the Hall of Fame. You will undoubtedly see something pertaining to Tim Lincecum.
Did he have 2 outstanding years in 08 and 09…..Yes.
Do those 2 years make him a Hall of Famer……Hell no.
Tim Lincecum played 10 years. First half was good. Second half was shit. It’s happened to PLENTY of players throughout baseball history.
@@prestonbucher18hes more of a hall of Famer than harold baines.
Tigers fan here!
I hate Lincecum! But yeah, he should be in 💯
Tim lincecum was really good in those few years but he shouldn’t be in the hall. Which a career war of 20 that’s way too low. His career was way too short.
4:36 it's Grover Cleveland Alexander, not Cy Young
The fact that TJ Quinn mentions Eddie Murphy's name being brought up alongside Albert Belle as players that writers wanted to punish is ridiculous. I love that Murray who was burned by the press early on, he then refused to talk to them ever after, put up such enormous career numbers that they didn't dare leave him off their ballots.
Murray didn't behave in the way that Albert Belle did, he simply felt that reporters had lied about his family members and refused to grant interviews after that. Murray never had a single off field incident in his career and all of his teammates especially Cal ripken loved him, so for reporters to bring up his name as one they can't wait to leave off the ballot shows how disgusting and petty these "writers" can be. Murray even alluded to this in his Hall of Fame speech.
I loved him on Saturday Night Live and Beverley Hills Cop. One of the all-time great comedians.
@@jimwerther
Yup ...he could really ball it when the lights were on.
I wish he had won an Oscar but what can you do? Doesn't help that he did Norbit.
@@aVerveQuest Eddie Murray. Moron.
Clicked for Timmy in the thumbnail. How he was only on the ballot for 1 year is beyond me.
Tim needs to be in the hall of fame
@@JabroniBaseball When he retired he was one of only 2 pitchers to be multiple time All-Star, throw multiple No-Hitters, Win multiple World Series, and win multiple Cy Youngs. The other was Sandy Koufax. Since then Justin Verlander and Max Scherzer have joined that club, but all 4 of them should be no brainer HoFers.
Tim only had 4 good years, then was absolutely awful. He's not HOF worthy.
@@TSD4027 This person knows. He had too brief of a career, no way HOFer. Just like Johan Santana and others.
I would agree if he had done more past 2010
Carlos Delgado. Somehow forgotten. I don't understand it. 473 HR's, .920 OPS. I don't care if his defense was nothing special.
What if ten players on the ballot aren’t worthy of the hall of fame, they still have to pick ten no matter what!?
Funny how Bud selig had a higher vote pct than Eddie Murray
Yeah it's a freaking joke that it happened.
No argument with your HOF selections except Lincecum. There are just TOO many forgotten greats who won twice as many games, frequently contributing to the game for decades afterward than to honor one who was dominant for 3 seasons. And in 4 of his bare minimum 10 seasons he posted a sub .500 winning percentage!
Keith Hernandez is way too pushy, such as the time he asked Jerry to help him move, after only having known Jerry for a few weeks. But in all seriousness, Piazza's "bacne" is infamous, he's a known roider.
and a cocaine snooter as well
@@HaveCheetahWillView Hey, guess what we are talking about baseball not your neighbor or that uncle you can't stand. lighten up both of you
Then there's Papi who was caught using roids and got voted in anyway.
To quote: "my top four players who should absolutely be in the HoF."
Jabroni Baseball listed:
1 -- Keith Hernandez
-------- Oh yeah, most definitely.
2 -- Don Mattingly
-------- Hernandez first, then we can talk about Mattingly.
3. -- Lou Whitaker
-------- Stats do not help him much, big accumulator. Great dWAR for his era, prolly the leader among 2Bs. Not a lot of peer recognition via AS games. If Trammel deserves to be there, Whitaker should be there as well.
4 -- Tim Lincecum
-------- If your Hall values 'peak value' strongly ...then yeah, put him in.
-------- If your Hall values 'career value' strongly ...prolly a pass.
-------- Four great HoF-level seasons, and a string of OK to mediocre seasons to string out his career.
Just one viewer's opinions.
Entrusting the HOF & annual player awards to the dilettantes & narcissists in the media was the biggest mistake these leagues and player associations/unions could have ever made. I put no stock into these credentials whatsoever and neither should you.
FYI: the league and players association have nothing to do with HOF voting. The HOF is a separate entity. The fact that players that are banned from MLB can't be inducted was a decision made solely by the HOF. MLB and MLBPA have no say in it.
I mean even the writers themselves have questioned their colleagues within the writers association. It’s just a bad look everywhere
Some writers snubbed players just because they didn't cater to their interview requests or didn't put up with their BS.
@@benvolio28 Yep. What's sobering is how much worse the press has become since the days of Ted Williams and Dick Allen.
2 Cy Youngs in a career should be an auto HOF. You were the best pitcher in your league TWICE? That's a historic achievement.
Same w MVP.
That would put Dale Murphy into the hall, which he should be.
Welcome to the Hall of Fame, Blake Snell!
Same w Roger Maris (who certainly qualified as Famous for many decades with his singular achievement)
Including guys like Don Mattingly and Timmy Jim in your HOF snubs (guys who have legitimate number concerns) instead of Curt Schilling (who was kept out because writers don't like him) is just absurd in a video about how writers are untrustworthy. It shows how much of a coward you are
Yeah Curt Schilling and Kevin Brown have a much better case
I agree with you completely. Curt Schilling does deserve to be in the hall. However he publicly said he wanted to be removed from the ballot. If he’s going to protest the hall while other deserving snubs have not, there’s not much of a case I can make for him if it’s clear both him and the hall want nothing to do with each other.
The egos of a lot of the baseball writers come off as that kid that road the bench on his little league team, and instead of trying to get better at the game, just sat and moped about it.😂
A fan vote would be a nice addition, but the HOF player vote would be a nice addition. Who would know about a player's talent and character better than the guys that faced him on the field, and shared a clubhouse with him?
Willie Davis was never on the ballot. Not saying he deserves to be in. But, he at least deserved a shot at being voted down.
This is not MLB Hall of Fame. This is the National Baseball Hall of Fame. Its corporation is separate from MLB.
This is factually true, but it seems that the gap between the two is paper-thin
@@dash_r_media MLB is the lone major league at the moment, but in the history of baseball, there was other leagues.
Dale Murphy needs to get in. Two-time MVP and 5-time GG winner in the '80s. Every one of his peers will tell you he deserves it. Plus he did it the right way w/o any hint of impropriety. Its a shame.
Mattingly and Murphy is the 2 names i hear the most, If Murphy had a 280 BA he would already be in, the career 265 BA is what's keeping him out from what i hear.
3.5 average WAR and a slashline of .265/.346/.469-- He's good, but not good enough. Compare him to Kenny Lofton and you'll see how far he has to go...
Albert Belle over Murphy.
He was good for 6 years
Every metric says Edmonds was a much better player for example
@@blakecscott5525 The Hall is too exclusive to get in. Two time MVP in a single decade should be in. Period. Full stop. If Murph doesn't get in then Bonds, Big Mac, Rose etc. can all rot as far as I am concerned. They broke rules simple as that.
Dave Parker has more Home Runs RBI Hits ,Runs Total Bases,By a large margin over Mattingly and Keith Hernandez. Dave leads Hsll of Famer Jim Rice in almost every hitting category except Home Runs. When Rice was elected Parker only received about 10% of the vote. Parker also leads in Put Outs and Assists. Parker played most of his home games at hitter unfriendly Riverfront and Three Rivers Stadiums. Rice played all of his home games at Fenway Park.
He also was worse than all of them
@@justinyo1796 How was Dave Parker worse than Mattingly,Hernandez ,Steve Garvey,your facts???
Three Rivers and Riverfront were hitter friendly parks.
Only Wrigley (with the wind blowing out) and the Braves park were friendlier.
Astrodome , Dodger Stadium , Busch Stadium, Olympic Stadium, Candlestick , and Shea were pitcher friendly parks in the NL in that era.
@@robertmurdock1848 Are you in fantasyland?? Fenway Park is as hitter friendly for a Right Handed Pull Hitter as you can get. Routine 310 ‘ Fly balls go for HRs. Routine outs at Three Rivers and Riverfront. Johnny Vench would have averaged 40-45 HRs a year at Fenway. Parker still managed 339 And leads Rice in all other offensive categories RBIs ,Hits ,Runs,Total Bases.
@@buddyvilla7393
That must explain why the top 3 HR hitters in Sox history are left handers.
I'm disputing your description of Riverfront and Three Rivers as hitter unfriendly, they were the opposite.
Joe Morgan went from a peak of 15 homers and an average of 10 in Houston, to nearly double that in Cincy.
There's a reason Cincinnati's only CY winner came in the shortened COVID season, their ballparks have been very hitter friendly since the days of Crosley Field.
Ichiro deserves 100%
I’m a yankee fan, Don Mattingly was absolutely dominant for a 5yr stretch. He was around and the steroid over began guys like Canseco and McGuire took away his shine
Tim Lincecum? A Hall of Famer? You might as well put in Brandon Webb and Jake Peavy at that point. All 3 of them had fantastic peaks in the 2000s but got crippled with injuries. Tbh I wouldn't put any of them in the Hall.
Honestly I wouldn't be opposed to putting in some players that had insane peaks.
Koufax has a short career which ended with injury.
@@rumblehat4357 his peak was far better and lasted longer than Lincecum
@@shoukatsukaiI’m just pointing out lack of longevity wasn’t an excuse for Koufax not getting in. There doesn’t seem to be an actual standard set of stats, just opinions of sportswriters (who COULD be biased.)
@@rumblehat4357 I agree with the lack of standardized rules on what really makes a Hall of Famer makes it a joke. It's just that comparing Lincecum with Koufax doesn't warrant a discussion bc one was far and away a better player and earned a Hall of Fame spot.
if Pete Rose, Shoeless Joe Jackson and Barry Bonds aren't in it, it's pretty irrelevant. I don't care how moral they were -- they are right at the top of baseball's best list. The whole thing is political and nonsensical at this point.
Let’s be honest bagwell was on the roids
Where’s your evidence other than him being good in a certain era.
Lincecum didn’t play long enough at an elite level.
The fans should have a say. If you ask me, the Hall in every sports seems to act as a "popularity contest" regardless of one's stats. It makes me wonder why one person who had similar stats to the other get passed up while his contemporary get elected.
100%. Lets the fans at least take part in it. They’re the ones visiting the hall anyway and it’s a game played for the fans
Respectfully disagree. It would give players in the largest markets a huge advantage. And WHICH fans? All of them? 8 year old kids? You gonna send out millions of ballots? My suggestion is players/managers, active & retired, with 10 plus years in the league. I think we should be sure the people voting know about the eligible players specifically. Not to mention know about baseball in general. Picture my gf scrolling through the ballot. "Oh, he's cute! He's in!"
There is no such thing as the Major League Baseball Hall of Fame. When you can't get something that basic correct... you have no credibility. Why should I watch the video?
Judging by this set of criteria Don Mattingly should be in. Absolutely essential to the Yankees in the 80’s and 90’s. Arguably the best 1st baseman of his era. No steroids. No major controversy. He should be in.
Yes and just like Puckett, Santo, and a few others his career was cut short by injury.
@@CHENLV-b6n David Wright
His fucking nickname is "Baseball" for Christ sake. Come on.
Not a Yankees fan,trust me lol
But wholeheartedly agreed with you!!
Why should "essential to the Yankees" matter? The Yankees were not particularly good during his time there. Under the current playoff format, they would have made the playoffs more frequently, but under the rules of his era, the Yankees only made the playoffs in his final year.
Ive blackballed baseball until Barry Bonds and Roger Clemens get in. May the sport rot in hell until then
75% sounds about right
Fans should NOT Vote for the HOF. Most fans go for Popularity!
Still can't believe sheffield and Delgado haven't been placed in yet
Yup, same. I just watched a video with Sheff talking about his career and it blows my damn mind he's not in just completely based off the court of public opinion on steroids, despite never having been popped for them. Aside from Griffey Jr, Sheff had one of the most memorable batting stances of that time. He's an overall stand up guy as well.
Im doing a separate video on HOF snubs and they are absolutely at the top of my list. They were absolute all time greats compared to their contemporaries at the minimum
Steroid era is weird.
Delgado hot booted after 1 year on the ballot because he didnt even get enough votes to stay on the ballot. His only chance is veterans committee 25 years after his retirement. It's a shame, Delgado gets so little respect.
Sheffield? No way.
I'm totally fine with the drugged players being out.
I think the problem is that the number of players has risen through expansion but the number of votes each writer gets has remained at 10. Maybe that should be 20.
Oh look, someone who doesn't have the balls to say why Curt Schilling isn't in the Hall of Fame. "Hey, why don't I do a 'Why The HOF Is Broken' video and completely gloss over one of the more public snubs". Coward.
I agree with you completely. Curt Schilling does deserve to be in the hall. However he publicly said he wanted to be removed from the ballot. If he’s going to protest the hall while other deserving snubs have not, there’s not much of a case I can make for him if it’s clear both him and the hall want nothing to do with each other.
Radio and TV announcers also interact with the players daily. They should also be allowed to vote.
Curt schilling.
Get him in there already
Also Dwight Evans.
@@JabroniBaseball Amen, my dude!
Doc gooden is much more deserving of the hall than Tim Lincecum. Doc was much more dominant in his peak. Maybe had the best season in MLB history in 1985. He could easily have won the Cy young in his rookie season as well. His overall numbers are better than Lincecum too.
If you are going to use "they were a product of their time period" to justify some of the 1900s players being inducted, then you also NEED to allow Barry Bonds in and other players during the steroid era.
The hypocrisy of some of the baseball writers is astonishing honestly
Yeah. Bonds was legendary RELATIVE to the steroid norm of his era.
Players like Bonds and Rogers Clemens are frankly unlikable people. That is their biggest downfall.
Those writers all need to be replaced & let's input a entire brand new system this is an absolute joke what I'm hearing from some of these MOMO'S.
No, they cheated. There's a difference between breaking league rules to gain a competitive advantage and having played by the rules in an era where rules (written or unwritten) made the level of competition lower.
Amazing video! I’m amazed that all those people you mentioned aren’t in. Hearing about this makes me sad I no longer have the pictures I took when I went to Cooperstown when I was 12(2008)
Don’t worry guys I’m on it
Albert Belle was a dominant hitter during his era. He should absolutely be in the Hall of Fame.
The “character clause” has to go. It’s the most brain dead excuse to keep players w HOF stats or borderline guys out
I agree. It’s beyond ridiculous
@@seplays2280 Agreed! It should be based on what you did on the field first
@@JabroniBaseball Not only that, but there's hypocrisy since it's only used to keep players out. For example there, take a contemporary who was on ballots for the steroid era of Dale Murphy, a pretty good player at his peak, came up just before the steroid era exploded so there's no connection to PEDs...and who was noted for years for being one of the nicest guys in the sport- and yet is a fringe HOFer at best. If "character" is enough to keep the PED users OUT of the Hall of Fame, then why doesn't the character clause take a player teetering on the edge like Murphy and put him IN the HOF as a tiebreaker?
There is no such clause.
@@danholmes2369 "5. Voting: Voting shall be based upon the player's record, playing ability, integrity, sportsmanship, character, and contributions to the team(s) on which the player played."
Directly from baseballhall election rules, its public information you can't just say no it doesn't exist.
I agree with a lot of this but the steroid thing is bothersome to me. The record books were ruined in my opinion during this era. I am also not a fan of someone like Bonds and ARod who cooked their entire careers getting the accolades they have. I don't have an answer that is satisfactory.
In addition to lowering the percentage needed to get in and uncapping the number of votes, I also don't think anyone should ever be taken out of contention, either because of time or low percentages. Perceptions can change.
Can't say I disagree with you at all on that. If perceptions can change, let people stay indefinitely on the ballots especially since they passed the committee to get on to begin with
People aren't taken out of contention; they move to the Veterans' Committee.
@@whackedoutwrestlingpodcast1404 True but that is a whole separate process and only meats every few years.
"public pressure" these writers believe themselves so important and so powerful. Them wanting to stay anonymous to avoid public pressure shows just how pompous they are, believing themselves to be as important as supreme Court members
Actually that's the same problem with supreme court judges too
Votes need to be taken seriously. It is disgraceful that voters will not vote for someone because they think no one should be unanimous or should get in on their first year of eligibility. I absolutely hate this reasoning. It is also absurd that players are left off the ballot for egotistical reasons, like they were mean to reporters or hurt someone's feelings on social media. It is also strange that vote percentages will start at 5% and then go to to 75% after 10 years. What did those players do in those years to improve their candidacy. They are either a hall of famer or not so take it seriously. I have been to the hall in Cooperstown twice and thought it was an interesting experience however.
Absolutely spot on. Zero accountability from the writers who just want to troll and preserve writers legacies vs what they should be focusing on. Does this player deserve to be in the hall of fame? yes or no? They're making it way more complicated than it has to be and its destroying the credibility of the hall
The prolem with "vote percentages start at 5% and go up to 75%" is it doesn't account for bumper crop years, especially with the "voters MUST vote for 10 people even if there's not 10 candidates they think are HOF-worthy" that was said in the video. Even then, I'd add a little more complication for a good reason:
Originally, players got 15 years on the ballot, not 10. My logic is take a rule from the Wrestling Observer HOF's rules for staying on the ballot (75% to get into the Hall, but if you have been on the ballot for 10 years and received more than 50% of the ballot in the tenth year, you remain on the ballot) for up to five years- but the standard goes up 5% every year for those (11 year needs 55%, 12 needs 60%, 13 needs 65%, 14 needs 70%, and finally year 15 is all or nothing, you either get in at 75% or you're off.)
have to be a yankee to get in the first time biggio and jeters stats mirror each other but guess who got in first
@@vincenthammons-kd9du Same as it ever was, Ted Williams in 1941, outhit DiMaggio during his 56 game streak.
DiMaggio’s OPS through the streak was 1.181, Williams’s OPS during the streak was 1.224, of course that was a minor slump for Ted that season where he finished with a 1.287 OPS.
DiMaggio sold more papers though, so despite being ahead of Ted in only one offensive category, RBIs with 125 to Ted's 120, with Ted having 85 fewer at bats mind you, at the rate he was producing he would have reached 142 with DiMaggio's AB volume, Dimaggio received nearly double the 1st place MVP votes.
So yeah, GFY if you're not in the pinstripes.
@@zym6687 That one is actually defensible since DiMaggio was much much better with the glove
I enjoyed this video immensely, I agreed with a lot you had to say, not everything, but most points. The one suggestion I really disagree with is the suggestion of letting fans vote for who gets in. If you think the writers have a particular bias against certain players, it would be far worse if the fans were allowed to vote. Keep up the great work, I enjoy your videos!!!
Glad you enjoyed it! These videos are a lot of fun to make. I can absolutely agree with you on the fan voting. If that was ever allowed, I wouldn’t let it be more that 5% of the vote while the other 95% goes to professionals on and off the field. That way we don’t run into fan bias and ballot stuffing.
Curt Schilling, one of the best post-season pitchets of all time is not in the HoF. The HoF has become a joke.
As someone on the opposite side of his political beliefs, it honestly relates to his political beliefs. Honestly, it's a joke to me since it should just be on the baseball stuff for me!
The fact that the best baseball player of all time (not really close) isn't in Hall of Fame made me completely ignore this shitshow. Bunch of loser nonfans voting
Don't agree with Lincecum but Hernandez, Mattingly, Dave Parker, Whitaker and Dale Murphy should be in meanwhile... Harold Baines? WTH?
I'm still confused as to why Hernandez, Whitaker, Murphy, and Mattingly aren't in.
I agree with you on the guys who should be in but why does it seem to bother people that Harold Baines is in? Did wrong people in a former life? Does it have an adverse affect on your life? The HoF is a celebration of baseball and apparently there were enough people who wanted to celebrate Baines career if you don't that of course is your right and just walk right past his plaque and for get about it, and then really start helping the push to get others who should have been elected in so it can be a true celebration in stead of a controversy
@@moderndaysalvage3976what did harold Haines accomplish in his career to warrant the hall? Hes the batters version of Jamie Moyer.....is Jamie moyer a hall of famer in your book?
@@johnwayne9828 Harold Baines is such a weird outlier in such a strict HOF. He didn't even get to 40 WAR. I agree with you. Baines was a very good player, but not a HOF'er. He's as they say, the Hall of Very Good.
@@msscott22 I'll be honest, I'm not even a fan of using war to judge a player for the hall. After seeing a video saying brian giles should be a hall of famer because he had 50 war, I dont trust war to tell me who is and isnt hall worthy. But Baines got in purely off of longevity and counting stats because he played over 2 decades. If that's how the halls gonna go it, jamie moyer better get his speech ready.
Was on board the whole way and then saw your snubs and was on board EVEN MORE. Totally agree! Well said. Thank you for posting.
Until Rose is in, the Hall is a joke.
sad but true
Joe Jackson also
Fernando Valenzuela & Orel Hershiser should be in the Hall of Fame. They were awesome in the ‘80s.
I recently moved near Cooperstown and visited the Hall of Fame 1st chance I got and I was surprised at the amount of Fernando Valenzuela related items and stats on display, yet he’s not in the Hall of Fame. That’s a shame.
I agree with most of what you say... But players who 100% used steroids and it made them huge stars such as bonds, A-rod, and others... They definitely don't deserve to be in the HoF with or without an asterisk.
That said... Keeping players out because they played during the era is one of the dumbest things I've ever heard. Crazy to me someone like Mattingly isn't in either.
Bonds never actually failed a steroid test after the rule was implemented. In a weird way Bonds never actually cheated lol he just lied to congress.
I think that's a fair POV to have. Its a pretty divided topic so that's why I think its a good idea to have different opinions in the voting process and let these players in or keep them out depending on the weight of the collective votes.
I always thought Johan Santana should've been a Hall of Famer. Like Tim Lincecum and Sandy Koufax, his peak was short due to injuries, but his peak is absolutely Hall of Fame worthy.
Baseball HOF should really loosen up and put in 6-8 players every year and make it a celebration of the game like Canton does.
100%. They need to stop gatekeeping and show off all the greats. Whether they peaked for only 5 years or were dominant for 20.
No
If you think they should put 6-8 players in every year, then in essence you think there are an average of 6 HoF-worthy players joining every year. That's far too many.
@@JayTemple
- *"That's far too many."*
Theres a lot of catching up to do, and errors to correct. Besides, with how many guys play baseball now, how many would be "enough"?
Im of the mind that there should be _no_ limit. Why? Because if one is worthy, then they should get in. Why stick to some arbitrary number because it feels like "too much" otherwise? If when eligible there are 20 people on the ballot and all are worthy, why _shouldnt_ they all get in at the same time? Seems silly and disrespectful to make some wait just because they werent good enough to go first despite still getting into the Hall of Fame eventually anyway lol Its the "Hall of Fame". It should be treated as such. The players career should speak for itself instead of letting journalists feelings dictate who gets in or not.
I mean, imagine playing a game and having a tough back and forth battle and eventually winning in the bottom of the ninth...but then having to wait for a group of writers to freakin vote on whether you actually get the win or not. Either numbers mean something or they dont. Voting takes that meaning away. Might as well choose who gets in with a coin toss. At least then it would be faster.
horrible idea. and the NFL is a terrible model to follow.
THANK YOU! If I have to argue about the Mattingly vs Puckett stats being within 1% of each stat different between the two I think I'll have an aneurysm
It makes absolutely no sense
@@JabroniBaseball I can put down the numbers next to each other and no one can tell the difference haha. Which player had 2 more doubles or 3 less RBI haha
Tim Lincecum was my favorite player of all time and him getting drafted by the Giants made me a Giants fan for life. Watching his dazzling cy young campaigns followed up by the world series runs and no hitters was the most fun I've ever had being a baseball fan! I wish he stayed with the Giants, I feel like his career would've lasted longer that way instead of flaming out on the Angels in that horrible stint. He accomplished more in his short peak than most pitchers do in 15-20 year careers and he absolutely should be in the hall of fame.
Side note, Greinke better make it in when he's eligible
That's the best way to summarize what Tim was to baseball. I'm a Mets fan. Complete opposite side of the country and even still Lincecum was absolute must see TV late at night for us on the east coast. Dude was just as dominant as anyone in his peak
@@kangaroodude34 you're a moron. 19 career WAR
I think the fans of the sport should have some say into the Hall of Fame. Lower the standard to 50% and put five fan entries into the Hall of Fame from those who deserve it
One thing that is not really factored in is ballpark and teammates. Rice is in the HOF and played about the same time as Dale Murphy and Dave Parker, and has slighly better stats, BUT he played in Fenway, played with many other great hitters, and played in a league with a DH. Ergo, he was always facing more worn out pitching staffs in a small, hitter-friendly park. Switch the players' teams and the stats would swap as well.
the fact that dave stieb isn’t in the hall is absurd
They can't elect everybody, he's below borderline anyway.
It really is crazy how there's a HOF without him
What? Stieb was terrific but was not a HoFer.
Stolen was a troublemaker.
He's better than Jack Morris for sure
You obviously forgot Andrew Jones
Barry Bonds is the home run king, both single season as well as cumulative. But he's not in the HoF because he's suspected of using PED's. You can't have it both ways. Either strip him of his records or put him in. Many people don't like him and that's fine but that's irrelevant. There's lots of other instances just like this that shouldn't still exist in 2024. Stuffy old men need to evolve
I believe Bonds is accused of taking HGH. I recall Clemens wife on the cover of woman's fitness saying she used HGH. They were so close to it that I can see voters questioning their integrity, but when they give the reason for steroids, even if they were taking what they were accused of it wasn't specifically outlawed by MLB. IMO it shows their own lack of knowledge of the situation amongst the writers.
Bonds was suspected of using PEDs
Ortiz was busted for using PEDs
Ah well, it is what it is
"Suspected"....ok.
Bonds did not positive for drug use and admitted to using performance enhancing drugs that apparently was not on the list of banned substances at that time
Meanwhile Ortiz got busted and got off scot free
Ah well, that's life
Here is my list:
Barry Bonds
Roger Clemens
Joe Jackson
Pete Rose
Alex Rodriguez
I think these are the most obvious
Also Curt Schilling.
More light needs to be brought to this. I've said for years that Keith not being in the HoF is actually outrageous and the only reason he's kept out is for personal reasons. Writers have ZERO excuses to keep all the votes and ANY of them saying "I'm withholding my vote because I do a lil' trolling" needs to be taken out back and taken care of.
The fact that Keith never received more than 11% of the vote is all the proof anybody needs to see that it’s a personal thing between the writers and him. There’s never been a good explanation to this either
@@JabroniBaseball If the problem for PED users was drug use, Keith Hernandez having been part of the Pittsburgh drug trials at least makes credible sense for why he wasn't given the HOF nod. (However, even that's countered like PED users or even Jackson/Rose for "the very first HOF class included Ty Cobb, a player who has been found to have thrown at least one baseball game" thing.)
players from 20 years ago dont matter today and dont need to appeasement
Writers aren't keeping him out now, he has been on the ballot for multiple committees and none of them put him in either. He deserves to be in, but it isn't really fair to keep blaming it on the writers, when his peers haven't inducted him either.
Andruw Jones would like a word about HOF snubs
The baseball players have to vote. It's a shame that players like Dave Concepcion, Luis Tiant, Dave Parker, Dale Murphy are not in the hall of fame. And the list goes on an on
Funny how people say this and then turn around and laugh at the terrible players the veterans committee has voted in.
Joe Jackson received a lifetime ban
Dude is dead though, let him in
Roberto Alomar is still in the Hall of Fame despite being considered permanently banned by the MLB. Make that make sense for Shoeless Joe Jackson and Pete Rose.
Lincecum isn't a HOFer
He pitched for parts of 10 seasons
ERA over 4 in 6 seasons
Getting into the Hall for being elite for 30% of your very short career is preposterous
Santana was way way better for example
@@DanielSong39 Far better. I've seen people on this video compare the 2 saying similar careers and it's ludicrous. Santana was a dominant force for basically 9 years
@@DanielSong39 He has a better argument than Lincecum, that's for certain.
@@Iamhungey I think King Felix has a better argument than Tim Lincecum and he was not as good as Santana
Tim was lights out for 2 years but I think he needed a peak of 5-6 years at that level and at least one legendary playoff performance to get in off of peak value
That would have put him at ~40-50 WAR and several unforgettable postseason memories which I think gets him over the line
@@DanielSong39 You can argue that even Stieb had a better argument as well, too bad he had terrible run support for much of the time even after the Blue Jays became contenders.
Insane to not have Greg Maddux or however his name is spelled
I think baseball is going away. Kids don't play or follow baseball as much as they used to. The fields in my hometown have been abandoned for 3 years. It's sad, the weeds are 10 feet tall.
I've been preaching this to anyone that will listen for years! Great video. I'm hoping that we will see a change in the voting sooner than later.
Like most Hall of Fames it has become a Hall of the Very Good not the Great. At least the Baseball Hall of Fame doesn't ensure that a set number of people must enter the Hall each year.
In my opinion to be in a Hall of Fame a player should dominate the league for several years. By dominant I mean that their performance should be statistically significantly higher than others in the league. Hitting 50 home runs when others are hitting 70 is a good but not great performance.