I love these HC guides, I’m playing paladin for the first time and hit level 40 with ease doing your stam/int build. Real challenge is now finding plate of the eagle gear.
I still sware by talking in zone for people to sell it to you. The good news though is that the AH will have WAY more Stam/int plate gear than mail sense its a known things paladins do past level 40. Expensive though. Mix of Mail and Plate should be fine... just stick to pulling only 3 mobs at a time with a decently uptodate shield to compensate for the armor loss.
I switched to tank pally aswell with lvl 41 and have mostly only stamina on my gear. Only pieces with Int are Mountainside buckler, which is pretty cheap on the ah and the neck from cath. Since you always regain your mana with seal of wisdom, the overall manapool doesnt matter too much. 2.7k hp and 5k armor at level 42 is super nice for hc.
You can hotkey marks in your keybindings. Right clicking the frames for each pull makes it cumbersome and slow. With hotkeys, like shift-f1 to f5 for example it takes a second to mark skull and cross on the fly.
We have very different pala tanking styles but i go deeper into the holy tree. If theres a mage in group its usually hard to keep aoe aggro but it usually doesn't matter. I usually just make sure i have enough mana to bubble out with potions if someone does something stupid.
How do I tank deadmines at 23 and don’t have seal of wisdom yet? I know consecration but what seals do I use, my normal aoe rotation? Command, judge, seal of righteous?
This is just my 2 cents from tanking dungeons in hc classic so far, salv your dps, wisdom yourself (until you get sanc), and wisdom your healer. I would recommend not using SoW at all, and taking your time, it's better to drink every 2-3 pulls than it is to drink every 4-5 pulls and lose threat a lot. Judge righteousness, and keep up SoR, you will basically never lose threat. Macro a skull target marker into your judgement, and make a second skull marker macro on it's own, incase you need to swap it quickly. Something else that is important, when mobs are dying so quickly, it is not worth to judge crusader, because it requires you to forgo the snap threat of judging righteousness, and unless you have a pally friend that can judge crusader for you, you should be running your max rank of righteouness and a slow weapon, because that will put out the most holy damage in the short amount of time it takes to kill the pack of mobs. Bosses can be a bit different, if there's a boss that will take a long time to kill (60+s) then you should tell your team to give you 3 sec to build aggro, judge crusader, and pop rank 3 righteousness with a fast weapon, like the kightly longsword, and judge righteousness off cd. This will do much more holy damage over the course of a minute or two, meaning it will build the most threat. At the end of the day, burn as much mana as you need to in order to hold threat, you're a tank, not a dps, cobserving mana for the next pull means nothing if you aren't actually tanking the mobs. Carry mana pots, try not to pop them, they're for emergency use only (your healer is underleveled and accidentally ass pulls the boss room). Don't pull if you're under half mana, you're just asking for something to go wrong. All in all, this way is not faster than pallytime's way, but when you have one life, and can only do the dungeon once a day, you shouldn't be in a rush. Also, if you don't have any threat problems with just consecration and melee'ing with SoW up, then it's fine to do that, but losing threat is the worst thing you can do as a tank, especially one without a taunt. Speaking of, make a mouseover macro for BoP (not a target of target macro, because that allows for you to "accidentally" BoP yourself if you get threat back from an auto right before you cast it). Macro /cancelaura Blessing of Salvation and /cancelaura Greater Blessing of Salvation into every fucking ability you have too, incase another pally in your party is a retard. Again though, it is perfectly fine to tank the way pallytime said, but if you run into threat issues with it, you need to be prepared to swap to a different playstyle. IMO, the more threat you generate, the more damage your dps can do without feeling afraid, the faster you kill packs and bosses, even with drinking.
you say 2-3 pulls for you, and 4-5 pulls for his build, but the real numbers are 2 pulls you, and 5 for his build. and there's no way you are drinking twice as much and keeping up with his 5 pulls before drinking. you just think you're going faster but i guarantee your dungeon runs are slower.
@kiljaedyn These were tips for hardcore. I don't remember how fast I was going, as this was a while ago, but it was never about speed, it was about threat, and keeping your dps safe. My dungeons were never especially slow either, as I was always full consumed for my level.
Would using seal of righteousness not increase the mana gain due to the second hit effect with also increasing threat if you have righteous fury activated? Thats what i have typically ran in the past with some sucess.
@@pallytime2156 In my testing during classic it seemed like it did. And that's why I switched to SoR for bosses with judged wis and just seal of wis for trash. I felt that the mana gen was slightly smaller but with a good amount of increase threat. Test it out for yourself and see.
1: you left out the use of BOK for threat, woulda been nice to know if we can still do that 2: bake skull mark into your target key with a macro and never worry again. Tab to next target? Skull pops up on that mob. Even if I agree that they should know better, it’s in our best interest to make deliberate choices to help them not be stupid.
You can, but BoK's gives more threat based upon how many players you buff, so the threat gen is nowhere near what you would get in a raid scenario, buffing many warriors at once. It may still be viable, but unless you're constantly buffing your healer (who wants wisdom) or yourself (who wants either wisdom or sanctuary), you'll be buffing your dps (who you want to have salv). All for much less threat than you'd generate in a raid, while still expending comparable amounts of mana. Could work with GBoK in a full pally group, idk, still probably not worth it.
Seal of Wisdom + Consecration is not the "by far superior" way to dungeon tank as a prot pala in classic. In fact it's actually a bit of a trap and more often than not ends up being both a massive over-commit while at the same time being worse for actually keeping aggro of the mobs. You're better of using Seal of Righteousness and Judgement of Righteousness as a quasi-taunt. Focusing the aggro to where it's more needed (usually on the mobs you notice your group members targeting initially).
@@pallytime2156 And that's your right, but the logic is rock solid. Consecration is a mana intensive spell that produces untargetable baseline threat, in a game in which most group dps output is weighted towards 1-2 mobs at a time. You'll be left with more mana by proactively using SoR/JoR with consecrations used sparingly, than you'll be by using 3-4 consecrations every pull with SoW/JoW.
So i went RFD on my lvl 42 paladin and this method doesnt really work in a good group. I mark skull and judge wisdom on it. By the time the mob dies i maybe get 3-4 swings on the mob because it dies so fast. I just used sor/sow but didnt judge at all and it was way more mana efficient.
I 'm a little confused about what a fast weapon is for ? SoW has 10-15 ppm fast weapon does not improve the chance, and slow weapons work well with Reckoning
Whoever told you SoW is PPM is nuts. Its been 66.666% proc chance per weapon HIT reguardless of wep speed sense forever. 3 attacks = 2 Procs on average. And thus faster is better.
Go test it then. Because you have 1 VERY well tested source here saying LOL! No... If it was 15 PPM I would prefer that because it would mean I could Seal Twist it into my wreck bombs at 90%+ chance to proc rather than 66.66%@@EmilWestrum
you are mixing it up. Seal of Wisdom is based in ppm so weapon speed doesnt matter (you'll get the same mana in 1 minute). Judgement of Wisdom, on the other hand, is not, it is has a fixed proc rate. That means, in a judged target with wisdom (or light), you get more mana back (or health) with a faster weapon than with a slower one. hope it is cleared up
I really wanna jump into HC as a prot Pally has always been my main, but it’s bullshit that your forced into a healer role as I don’t heal ever, I pretty much strictly tank in WOW
Should have mentioned paladins reliance on engineering for ranged pulls. I don't like going engineering, but if you want to tank as a paladin it is almost required I feel. Also great for the aoe dmg/stun. Also the "no taunt" thing is not ideal, especially on hardcore. I could see why dps wouldn't want to group with a tank without a taunt, in case they pull threat from a boss or something. On turtle wow they made judgement of justice into a functional taunt, which I think was a cool addition instead of just giving paladins a bland taunt ability.
Ranged pullings not really an issue. Its impossible to have a group that doesn't have ranged pull ability. That would litteraly be all paladins with no nades...
If you don't want to go engi, there are two items in the game that you can buy for ranged pulling (probably more), one being explosive rocket, which is a quest reward from the low lvl Elwynn Forest quest (they're really cheap on AH because people are constantly dying, starting new chr's, and posting them on the AH). Another one is the magic candles that drops off the kobolds in Elwynn, they basically let you cast a rank 2 fireball. I don't remember the range on them, but the explosive rockets are 27m with a 3m radius, so effectively 30m.
Also, if you want a "taunt", make a mouseover macro for BoP, NOT a target of target macro, because that will allow you to "accidentally" BoP yourself, which can and will get people killed.
Yeah sure... I live in China and Game like to DC rather often. Therefore I don't do Hard Core outside of me being on the "honor system" for deaths. I died to Fengore and friends once trying to do what Xaryu did... have a video on that even showing the death. But other than that... no deaths outside of DC's and flight path falling bugs.
I love these HC guides, I’m playing paladin for the first time and hit level 40 with ease doing your stam/int build. Real challenge is now finding plate of the eagle gear.
I still sware by talking in zone for people to sell it to you. The good news though is that the AH will have WAY more Stam/int plate gear than mail sense its a known things paladins do past level 40.
Expensive though.
Mix of Mail and Plate should be fine... just stick to pulling only 3 mobs at a time with a decently uptodate shield to compensate for the armor loss.
I switched to tank pally aswell with lvl 41 and have mostly only stamina on my gear. Only pieces with Int are Mountainside buckler, which is pretty cheap on the ah and the neck from cath. Since you always regain your mana with seal of wisdom, the overall manapool doesnt matter too much. 2.7k hp and 5k armor at level 42 is super nice for hc.
You can hotkey marks in your keybindings. Right clicking the frames for each pull makes it cumbersome and slow. With hotkeys, like shift-f1 to f5 for example it takes a second to mark skull and cross on the fly.
You are truly the master of pallies, thank you for your wisdom!
We have very different pala tanking styles but i go deeper into the holy tree. If theres a mage in group its usually hard to keep aoe aggro but it usually doesn't matter. I usually just make sure i have enough mana to bubble out with potions if someone does something stupid.
Hey @Pallytime215, but what about talent build for this tanking guide? Please did you create talent build somewhere? Ty
Paladin PvE guide Talents... I got like 3 vids out talkign about just that
How do I tank deadmines at 23 and don’t have seal of wisdom yet? I know consecration but what seals do I use, my normal aoe rotation? Command, judge, seal of righteous?
SoR and you just Drink More because no wisdom
@@pallytime2156 I’m a int stam and a little bit spirit and having fun. Did an all Paladin run for the 20 hammer quest and we all had a blast .
This is just my 2 cents from tanking dungeons in hc classic so far, salv your dps, wisdom yourself (until you get sanc), and wisdom your healer. I would recommend not using SoW at all, and taking your time, it's better to drink every 2-3 pulls than it is to drink every 4-5 pulls and lose threat a lot. Judge righteousness, and keep up SoR, you will basically never lose threat. Macro a skull target marker into your judgement, and make a second skull marker macro on it's own, incase you need to swap it quickly. Something else that is important, when mobs are dying so quickly, it is not worth to judge crusader, because it requires you to forgo the snap threat of judging righteousness, and unless you have a pally friend that can judge crusader for you, you should be running your max rank of righteouness and a slow weapon, because that will put out the most holy damage in the short amount of time it takes to kill the pack of mobs. Bosses can be a bit different, if there's a boss that will take a long time to kill (60+s) then you should tell your team to give you 3 sec to build aggro, judge crusader, and pop rank 3 righteousness with a fast weapon, like the kightly longsword, and judge righteousness off cd. This will do much more holy damage over the course of a minute or two, meaning it will build the most threat. At the end of the day, burn as much mana as you need to in order to hold threat, you're a tank, not a dps, cobserving mana for the next pull means nothing if you aren't actually tanking the mobs. Carry mana pots, try not to pop them, they're for emergency use only (your healer is underleveled and accidentally ass pulls the boss room). Don't pull if you're under half mana, you're just asking for something to go wrong. All in all, this way is not faster than pallytime's way, but when you have one life, and can only do the dungeon once a day, you shouldn't be in a rush. Also, if you don't have any threat problems with just consecration and melee'ing with SoW up, then it's fine to do that, but losing threat is the worst thing you can do as a tank, especially one without a taunt. Speaking of, make a mouseover macro for BoP (not a target of target macro, because that allows for you to "accidentally" BoP yourself if you get threat back from an auto right before you cast it).
Macro /cancelaura Blessing of Salvation and /cancelaura Greater Blessing of Salvation into every fucking ability you have too, incase another pally in your party is a retard.
Again though, it is perfectly fine to tank the way pallytime said, but if you run into threat issues with it, you need to be prepared to swap to a different playstyle. IMO, the more threat you generate, the more damage your dps can do without feeling afraid, the faster you kill packs and bosses, even with drinking.
Lol. Its just so intuitive. you have 2 buttons to press and people keep talking about it 20 years later
you say 2-3 pulls for you, and 4-5 pulls for his build, but the real numbers are 2 pulls you, and 5 for his build. and there's no way you are drinking twice as much and keeping up with his 5 pulls before drinking. you just think you're going faster but i guarantee your dungeon runs are slower.
@kiljaedyn These were tips for hardcore. I don't remember how fast I was going, as this was a while ago, but it was never about speed, it was about threat, and keeping your dps safe. My dungeons were never especially slow either, as I was always full consumed for my level.
@kiljaedyn Also, I even said in the comment that it wasn't as fast as Pallytimes way, but it was about being safe in HC.
@@Flopzalot oh my bad then
Love the guides and explanations, especially since I know Pallytime is NOT GONNA LIE to me 😅 Seriously, awesome stuff
Would using seal of righteousness not increase the mana gain due to the second hit effect with also increasing threat if you have righteous fury activated? Thats what i have typically ran in the past with some sucess.
No the SoR coding won't x2 proc judgment of light or wisdom to my knowledge.
@@pallytime2156 In my testing during classic it seemed like it did. And that's why I switched to SoR for bosses with judged wis and just seal of wis for trash. I felt that the mana gen was slightly smaller but with a good amount of increase threat. Test it out for yourself and see.
I can re-test it... Blizzard often changes things over the years.@@lucksh0t61891
I still need practice it seems. Some runs l drink less than the healer; other runs l need to drink all the time 🤔
Just refuse to do more than 3 consecrations a pull... and see what happens...
Blessing of salvation on everyone and prot paladin will have minor issues with threat, otherwise it's painful
In bad gear leveling yeah maybe
@@pallytime2156yeah and what do most people do in hardcore? 😂
1: you left out the use of BOK for threat, woulda been nice to know if we can still do that
2: bake skull mark into your target key with a macro and never worry again. Tab to next target? Skull pops up on that mob. Even if I agree that they should know better, it’s in our best interest to make deliberate choices to help them not be stupid.
You can, but BoK's gives more threat based upon how many players you buff, so the threat gen is nowhere near what you would get in a raid scenario, buffing many warriors at once. It may still be viable, but unless you're constantly buffing your healer (who wants wisdom) or yourself (who wants either wisdom or sanctuary), you'll be buffing your dps (who you want to have salv). All for much less threat than you'd generate in a raid, while still expending comparable amounts of mana. Could work with GBoK in a full pally group, idk, still probably not worth it.
Seal of Wisdom + Consecration is not the "by far superior" way to dungeon tank as a prot pala in classic. In fact it's actually a bit of a trap and more often than not ends up being both a massive over-commit while at the same time being worse for actually keeping aggro of the mobs.
You're better of using Seal of Righteousness and Judgement of Righteousness as a quasi-taunt. Focusing the aggro to where it's more needed (usually on the mobs you notice your group members targeting initially).
Disagree and find it hard to believe you see it differently.
@@pallytime2156 And that's your right, but the logic is rock solid. Consecration is a mana intensive spell that produces untargetable baseline threat, in a game in which most group dps output is weighted towards 1-2 mobs at a time.
You'll be left with more mana by proactively using SoR/JoR with consecrations used sparingly, than you'll be by using 3-4 consecrations every pull with SoW/JoW.
So i went RFD on my lvl 42 paladin and this method doesnt really work in a good group. I mark skull and judge wisdom on it. By the time the mob dies i maybe get 3-4 swings on the mob because it dies so fast. I just used sor/sow but didnt judge at all and it was way more mana efficient.
Yeah if you get in a Single target nuke group life be like that sometimes.
Adapt accordingly.
I 'm a little confused about what a fast weapon is for ? SoW has 10-15 ppm fast weapon does not improve the chance, and slow weapons work well with Reckoning
Whoever told you SoW is PPM is nuts. Its been 66.666% proc chance per weapon HIT reguardless of wep speed sense forever.
3 attacks = 2 Procs on average. And thus faster is better.
@@pallytime2156 Literally all sources says that SoW is 15 PPM. The judgement effect is % chance.
Go test it then. Because you have 1 VERY well tested source here saying LOL! No...
If it was 15 PPM I would prefer that because it would mean I could Seal Twist it into my wreck bombs at 90%+ chance to proc rather than 66.66%@@EmilWestrum
@@EmilWestrum This guy is clicker and is bad at the game. Even the source code says 15ppm.
you are mixing it up. Seal of Wisdom is based in ppm so weapon speed doesnt matter (you'll get the same mana in 1 minute). Judgement of Wisdom, on the other hand, is not, it is has a fixed proc rate. That means, in a judged target with wisdom (or light), you get more mana back (or health) with a faster weapon than with a slower one. hope it is cleared up
I really wanna jump into HC as a prot Pally has always been my main, but it’s bullshit that your forced into a healer role as I don’t heal ever, I pretty much strictly tank in WOW
thank you
Should have mentioned paladins reliance on engineering for ranged pulls. I don't like going engineering, but if you want to tank as a paladin it is almost required I feel. Also great for the aoe dmg/stun.
Also the "no taunt" thing is not ideal, especially on hardcore. I could see why dps wouldn't want to group with a tank without a taunt, in case they pull threat from a boss or something. On turtle wow they made judgement of justice into a functional taunt, which I think was a cool addition instead of just giving paladins a bland taunt ability.
Ranged pullings not really an issue. Its impossible to have a group that doesn't have ranged pull ability. That would litteraly be all paladins with no nades...
Taunt is irrelevant for 99% of content, stop being bad
That statement gets more true when you figure out how to use BUBBLE / Cancel as an actual taunt LOL. But hard to explain I supose.@@Jvstm
If you don't want to go engi, there are two items in the game that you can buy for ranged pulling (probably more), one being explosive rocket, which is a quest reward from the low lvl Elwynn Forest quest (they're really cheap on AH because people are constantly dying, starting new chr's, and posting them on the AH). Another one is the magic candles that drops off the kobolds in Elwynn, they basically let you cast a rank 2 fireball. I don't remember the range on them, but the explosive rockets are 27m with a 3m radius, so effectively 30m.
Also, if you want a "taunt", make a mouseover macro for BoP, NOT a target of target macro, because that will allow you to "accidentally" BoP yourself, which can and will get people killed.
can i get video about your hc journey on official?
Yeah sure...
I live in China and Game like to DC rather often.
Therefore I don't do Hard Core outside of me being on the "honor system" for deaths.
I died to Fengore and friends once trying to do what Xaryu did... have a video on that even showing the death.
But other than that... no deaths outside of DC's and flight path falling bugs.