I'd like to update this guide with 2 minor changes. #1 Flurry Axe is BiS 24/7. Don't even worry about ironfoe, if you get one thats cool and it's useful still but Flurry Axe is amazing. #2 UBRS is easy. Rend event is a joke, no mana issues with all the downtime. Last half is still rough but with 1-2 cc and a druid/warrior to taunt last boss you can easily solo tank the dungeon with 60% of the prebis gear listed. Nothing too major, but worth noting. Good luck out there!
@@o0kaelas Ironfoe has a 3% proc rate, which is okay, especially since it procs off itself still, but Flurry Axe at 5% is a better overall 24/7/365 weapon. I would still use ironfoe if I found one, but Flurry is better for SoW procs and faster speed is good for tab targeting in a pinch. You spend a lot of time using seal of wisdom to keep a good pace up in dungeons and in raid tanking where spamming kings is currently the highest threat source as opposed to relying on weapon damage. Originally I suggested ironfoe as the 24/7 wep and that's really what the update applys to. I would use ironfoe mostly for the raw upfront damage and pvp reckoning now as opposed to everything else.
@@BoochieSmash with ironfoe proccing itself, if you use SoR (wich also procc weapon effects), wouldnt it make the 2 extra hits beat out flurry axe's 2% higher procc?. Also i was wondering if skullflame is the 24/7 shield for aoe farming?
@@Edetwo Flurry Axe also procs off itself. But yes, when considering the proc rates of both weaopons, the double proc does make Ironfoe pull ahead overtime in terms of overall proc value; however, with Flurry Axe you get the advantage of attacking 1 second faster per swing, which is more useful for snap aggro when tab targeting, aggro over time with spell damage scaling, and judgement proccing. That being said, Ironfoe is still really good, no doubt. The real thing that drops it in prio is it comes down to hard farming a low drop chance vs buying a wep off the AH. On a related note, as far as hard farming goes, I'd rather spend my time farming Runeblade of Baron Rivendare, because the runs are more profitable and there's nothing else like it.
@@Edetwo To answer your 2nd question. Skullflame is not the 24/7 AoE shield since Force Reactive Disk has a time and place. Of course, Force breaks which means it's also not 24/7, so Skullflame is more of a reliable backup and very strong early game shield for general use. Argent Defender is also really good in mass aoe situations and is more consistent when paired with sanctuary and shield spikes. As a rule of thumb with pally, there really is no such thing as 24/7 since every situation can call for something different. Having as many options as possible is the best way to go if you are planning ahead.
Man, very nice video. I plan to play paladin tank and this is was probably most informative video I seen after classic anouncement, and I seen quite a lot already... I'm still unsure about professions, but engineering is probably BiS... but BS would be nice for roleplying.
Thanks! Yea, I've been debating going BS for awhile but it's so hard to ignore dynamite and force reactive disk for farming. Psure I'm going engi/mining while leveling, then dropping mining for enchanting once I have enough arcanite to hold myself over. Enchanting's so good for solo dungeon farming. Lotta options as a pally, coukd change on a whim lol. I'm rendering part 2 atm, should be up in about an hour or so if my rig plays nice.
@@BoochieSmash I learned about cobold candles, that you can use as ranged pull. So not sure in dynamites are needed. And that shield breaks fast, so is it good for farming?
@@Razi5131 Dynamites are more for extra damage to kill faster. There are actually dynamite you can use as a non engineer too called Ez-Thro classicdb.ch/?item=6714 classicdb.ch/?item=18588. Altho they do have a small chance to fail. Didn't know about the candles tho, that's nifty! The shield is not good for general purpose but for specific scenarios, particularly higher level stuff like 2man farming Stratholme trash with a mage. Both are a spend money to make money thing, so defiantly not necessary by any means. I always like having more ways to spend my time, and engi defiantly opens up possibilities.
Most definatly. I cover that in the video. Strength is only brought up since that's the only mail gear available not on AH and early on you are just auto attacking all day, gotta buy eagle gear for int until like BRD. 0 end game specs mentioned have strength as a consideration.
Great Guide! I do have a few questions though... I was a pally tank on retail roughly from Wrath to WOD. Stopped playing for 5 years and came back for classic. I'm having issues with initial threat at level 49. Played as Ret the whole way and just respeced. My opener on trash packs is SOR + judge+ consecrate rank 5. Skull just runs away and it's impossible for me to bring it back. My gear is mostly Eagle gear with the exception of a few pieces. just trying to figure things out... Ideas?
Judge opener is about as much snap threat as anyone can ask for. Not much you can do if dps can't keep it in their pants at the start of a pull. Ideally, if everyone is going crazy at the start of a pull, skull will die before it needs to be tanked anyway. DPS have abilties to survive 1v1 against elites, so it's their fault if they die. Stun gives some decent threat and buys time. Spamming buffs will give you more threat as well, blessing of sacrifice is good at your level. Engi provides another source of threat. Flurry Axe breaks the game. Outside of all that extra stuff, just don't mind people pulling aggro and life gets easier.
Any tips on what to do on bosses that drop threat? Like Eranikus in ST who sleeps you for 15 seconds and runs around attacking everyone but you. Can only bop one person.
#1 problem on a handful of dungeon bosses. Season of Discovery gives an actual taunt, but outside of that game mode, you will need someone in the party that can taunt. A Hunter with distracting shot or a pet with growl in 2nd threat works too. At the end of the day, whoever has 2nd threat needs to be able to survive. If someone can taunt right b4 the sleep goes out then they can eat it for you but that requires skill on their end.
Why is reckoning better than anticipation? I was just thinking how often do mobs Crit you in pve? Wouldn’t increasing your block chance with shield spikes put out more damage and increase your threat?
There's room for debate on quite a few talent choices. I prefer reckoning for extra procs of seal/judgement of wisdom on large aoe pulls in pve, but I mainly run it for pvp purposes. I Iook at reckoning as an entirely new mechanic for your character; one that people have to play around in pvp. Antitipcation is just a raw stat increase of 10 defense, that never does anything else; it's like wearing a slightly better pair of boots. Comparing anticipation to toughness would be more fair, and between those 2 I'd take the armor since it scales with gear. Anticipation is just never worth it in my eyes, but plenty of people, who know more than me in a lot of cases, still run it and argue in favor of it. Ultimately you do you.
BoochieSmash okay awesome so it helps in pve but more of a PvP talent. Since I’m grinding dungeons until 60 and then switching to ret it might be more beneficial to skip reckoning for more consistent damage with block. That’s just the way I see it right now. I’ll probably change my mind in a week. Anyways thanks for the reply your guides are great
Okay everyone who was thinking like me boochie was 100% right go with reckoning. I tried different builds and reckoning over the other options is much better for pve and of course PvP.
That's a very accurate anaology. To be honest, I was a pretty anxious while making this first video. It took a lot of takes and because of that my tone is all over the place. Spent about 2 weeks total making this because of my insecurities and complete lack of editing experience.
The only times I would say you NEED it are raid tanking and holding aoe pulls against mages. Outside of that it will simply make your runs smoother and allow you to downrank easier. 5mans are pretty easy so you can get by without proper aggro. Plenty of ret pallys with 11/9/31 can slap on RF and get thru a dungy just fine if they put on some plate instead of wearing their leather gimp gear.
Hey thanks! Yes I will be playing prot from day one in a duo with my mage buddy. Speaking of which, I saw your duo guide video awhile ago and it was pretty good. Nice to see other pallys who know their stuff :)
Spell Power is really the only good one. Proc based enchants are too infrequent, lifestealing doesn't even scale, and while you can do stuff like 22int, I don't see a point. I personally just do fiery blaze for no real reason, and icy chill since it looks cool.
Playstyle is more important than build overall.... well baring you have conseceate to keep things simple. If you are planning pulls ahead of time, you'll be able to position the mobs in a way that you secure first dibs on the opener and ride out your threat lead long enough for the mob to die. Part 2 of this video covers rotation, and I got a bunch of example videos if you need some reference on proper pulling to achieve this goal.
Do you think this build could work for an all-around tank/healing spec for dungeons? classic.wowhead.com/talent-calc/paladin/05503120501-05325133-052 Swapping maybe between Sanctuary and Divine Favor. Also Putting 7 points to ret for some extra dmg and mana efficiency for solo content.
Yea it could do fine on a pve server, but without holy shock, reckoning or a heavy ret build you will have a hard time killing people in pvp. Usually I avoid putting less than 10 points into ret for this reason and stick to either 21/30 or 25/26 for this reason. The 7 points in ret really doesn't do a lot for you as that basically just makes spamming seals and judgements better which you don't really do when doing aoe solo; you usually will just judge once for wisdom debuff and then keep wisdom seal up in order to sustain your rotation. I dont think the single target gains from those 7 points are worth making your build weaker overall.
I don't understand skipping defense and getting reckoning. If a player is going to want to tank dungeons the extra defense is going to make a much larger difference than reckoning, which is only worthwhile if the paladin is getting crit often which a player wouldn't want in a group environment. If you can't tank UBRS in that spec you'll probably have a difficult time healing in it, too. Finally I don't see the point in including weapon drops from high level dungeons or items that are especially rare or BOE epics. How about guaranteed items from quests so a player can start with something while they farm for any of the weapons on your list?
Reckoning is more for pvp than anything else. The extra auto attack from time to time in pve is more of a bonus. As mentioned in the intro of video, this spec is useful for more than just tanking. That being said, getting crit in 5 man dungeons isn't a big deal to begin with. Between redoubt and holy shield you can push plenty of crits off the table anyway without needing a single point in defense. 5 points for 10 defense just really isn't worth unless you are going for defense cap, which is not at all necessary for dungeons. UBRS isn't about spec so much as gear. The only noteworthy difference between this build and a full holy build is 5% spell crit, so you can heal just fine alongside the best of them. Tanking UBRS is rough for low gear levels for all tanks, but paladins also don't have the cooldowns that warriors do or the raw armor that bears do. The lack of taunt and reliance on mana also makes things more difficult than necessary for your entire party. You pretty much need deathbone or tier gear to tank it effectively and those aren't things you have going into UBRS for the first time. Your starting weps are from Maraudon, a sub level 50 dungeon. Thrash blade is from a the quest for it, fist of stone also drops from there, and both last even as a fresh 60. Really nothing else worth recommending.
I'd like to update this guide with 2 minor changes.
#1 Flurry Axe is BiS 24/7. Don't even worry about ironfoe, if you get one thats cool and it's useful still but Flurry Axe is amazing.
#2 UBRS is easy. Rend event is a joke, no mana issues with all the downtime. Last half is still rough but with 1-2 cc and a druid/warrior to taunt last boss you can easily solo tank the dungeon with 60% of the prebis gear listed.
Nothing too major, but worth noting. Good luck out there!
Why is ironfoe worse?
@@o0kaelas Ironfoe has a 3% proc rate, which is okay, especially since it procs off itself still, but Flurry Axe at 5% is a better overall 24/7/365 weapon. I would still use ironfoe if I found one, but Flurry is better for SoW procs and faster speed is good for tab targeting in a pinch. You spend a lot of time using seal of wisdom to keep a good pace up in dungeons and in raid tanking where spamming kings is currently the highest threat source as opposed to relying on weapon damage.
Originally I suggested ironfoe as the 24/7 wep and that's really what the update applys to. I would use ironfoe mostly for the raw upfront damage and pvp reckoning now as opposed to everything else.
@@BoochieSmash with ironfoe proccing itself, if you use SoR (wich also procc weapon effects), wouldnt it make the 2 extra hits beat out flurry axe's 2% higher procc?. Also i was wondering if skullflame is the 24/7 shield for aoe farming?
@@Edetwo Flurry Axe also procs off itself. But yes, when considering the proc rates of both weaopons, the double proc does make Ironfoe pull ahead overtime in terms of overall proc value; however, with Flurry Axe you get the advantage of attacking 1 second faster per swing, which is more useful for snap aggro when tab targeting, aggro over time with spell damage scaling, and judgement proccing. That being said, Ironfoe is still really good, no doubt.
The real thing that drops it in prio is it comes down to hard farming a low drop chance vs buying a wep off the AH.
On a related note, as far as hard farming goes, I'd rather spend my time farming Runeblade of Baron Rivendare, because the runs are more profitable and there's nothing else like it.
@@Edetwo To answer your 2nd question. Skullflame is not the 24/7 AoE shield since Force Reactive Disk has a time and place. Of course, Force breaks which means it's also not 24/7, so Skullflame is more of a reliable backup and very strong early game shield for general use. Argent Defender is also really good in mass aoe situations and is more consistent when paired with sanctuary and shield spikes.
As a rule of thumb with pally, there really is no such thing as 24/7 since every situation can call for something different. Having as many options as possible is the best way to go if you are planning ahead.
This person actually knows his stuff. Love this guide.
Three years later, I always come back to your port vids for help. Thank you for making these videos my man. See you around IF.
This is a great guide. Prot is a great healing build and levels faster than you'd think at 50+ due to aoe pulling.
great guide. wanted to level a pally and tank dungeons and this was just what I needed thank you.
Can't go wrong with pally, always a fun time. Glad to hear this vid is still useful too.
One of the best guides i have seen so far. Everything straight to the point without the unnessecary blabla. :)
Adding an extra comment to hopefully bring some algorithm to this video due to the incoming hardcore hype :P
Man, very nice video. I plan to play paladin tank and this is was probably most informative video I seen after classic anouncement, and I seen quite a lot already... I'm still unsure about professions, but engineering is probably BiS... but BS would be nice for roleplying.
Thanks!
Yea, I've been debating going BS for awhile but it's so hard to ignore dynamite and force reactive disk for farming. Psure I'm going engi/mining while leveling, then dropping mining for enchanting once I have enough arcanite to hold myself over. Enchanting's so good for solo dungeon farming. Lotta options as a pally, coukd change on a whim lol.
I'm rendering part 2 atm, should be up in about an hour or so if my rig plays nice.
@@BoochieSmash I learned about cobold candles, that you can use as ranged pull. So not sure in dynamites are needed. And that shield breaks fast, so is it good for farming?
@@Razi5131 Dynamites are more for extra damage to kill faster. There are actually dynamite you can use as a non engineer too called Ez-Thro classicdb.ch/?item=6714 classicdb.ch/?item=18588. Altho they do have a small chance to fail.
Didn't know about the candles tho, that's nifty!
The shield is not good for general purpose but for specific scenarios, particularly higher level stuff like 2man farming Stratholme trash with a mage.
Both are a spend money to make money thing, so defiantly not necessary by any means. I always like having more ways to spend my time, and engi defiantly opens up possibilities.
Just the guide i was looking for as my end game is just to do dungeons, i have no intentions to raid or pvp
First misstake, speccing strenght talent. You want int/stamina.
Most definatly. I cover that in the video. Strength is only brought up since that's the only mail gear available not on AH and early on you are just auto attacking all day, gotta buy eagle gear for int until like BRD.
0 end game specs mentioned have strength as a consideration.
Nice guide. Can't wait to try this build!
Man, I know you don't play this game. Your shilling is a kind gesture tho.
Great Guide! I do have a few questions though... I was a pally tank on retail roughly from Wrath to WOD. Stopped playing for 5 years and came back for classic. I'm having issues with initial threat at level 49. Played as Ret the whole way and just respeced. My opener on trash packs is SOR + judge+ consecrate rank 5. Skull just runs away and it's impossible for me to bring it back. My gear is mostly Eagle gear with the exception of a few pieces. just trying to figure things out... Ideas?
Judge opener is about as much snap threat as anyone can ask for. Not much you can do if dps can't keep it in their pants at the start of a pull. Ideally, if everyone is going crazy at the start of a pull, skull will die before it needs to be tanked anyway. DPS have abilties to survive 1v1 against elites, so it's their fault if they die.
Stun gives some decent threat and buys time. Spamming buffs will give you more threat as well, blessing of sacrifice is good at your level. Engi provides another source of threat. Flurry Axe breaks the game. Outside of all that extra stuff, just don't mind people pulling aggro and life gets easier.
"oh cool a prot pally guide, this should help"
*specs into Divine Strength*
*facepalm*
Awesome video, thanks man
Any tips on what to do on bosses that drop threat? Like Eranikus in ST who sleeps you for 15 seconds and runs around attacking everyone but you. Can only bop one person.
#1 problem on a handful of dungeon bosses. Season of Discovery gives an actual taunt, but outside of that game mode, you will need someone in the party that can taunt. A Hunter with distracting shot or a pet with growl in 2nd threat works too.
At the end of the day, whoever has 2nd threat needs to be able to survive.
If someone can taunt right b4 the sleep goes out then they can eat it for you but that requires skill on their end.
@@BoochieSmash Thanks for the response. I really enjoyed your series of videos on paladin tanking btw!
9:00 "deathbone is really rare and hard to get" Shows Ironfoe lol
Why is reckoning better than anticipation? I was just thinking how often do mobs Crit you in pve? Wouldn’t increasing your block chance with shield spikes put out more damage and increase your threat?
There's room for debate on quite a few talent choices. I prefer reckoning for extra procs of seal/judgement of wisdom on large aoe pulls in pve, but I mainly run it for pvp purposes.
I Iook at reckoning as an entirely new mechanic for your character; one that people have to play around in pvp. Antitipcation is just a raw stat increase of 10 defense, that never does anything else; it's like wearing a slightly better pair of boots. Comparing anticipation to toughness would be more fair, and between those 2 I'd take the armor since it scales with gear. Anticipation is just never worth it in my eyes, but plenty of people, who know more than me in a lot of cases, still run it and argue in favor of it. Ultimately you do you.
BoochieSmash okay awesome so it helps in pve but more of a PvP talent. Since I’m grinding dungeons until 60 and then switching to ret it might be more beneficial to skip reckoning for more consistent damage with block. That’s just the way I see it right now. I’ll probably change my mind in a week. Anyways thanks for the reply your guides are great
Okay everyone who was thinking like me boochie was 100% right go with reckoning. I tried different builds and reckoning over the other options is much better for pve and of course PvP.
very informative, ty
Your voice stresses me out. It's like you are laboring on the toilet to release untold evils on the earth.
*excellent guide man - keep it up 👍🏼
That's a very accurate anaology. To be honest, I was a pretty anxious while making this first video. It took a lot of takes and because of that my tone is all over the place. Spent about 2 weeks total making this because of my insecurities and complete lack of editing experience.
@@BoochieSmash New classic pala here. You helped me a lot becoming better at tanking so I thank you for ovecoming your fears and posting this!
@boochiesmash If i wanted holy/tank hybrid could I still tank if i swap 5/5 reckoning for 5/5 Holy Power?
Yea, lots of people do 30/21/0 which accomplishes just that. You could even tank with a regular holy spec if you really wanted to.
Don't you need improved righteous fury for tanking dungeons?
The only times I would say you NEED it are raid tanking and holding aoe pulls against mages. Outside of that it will simply make your runs smoother and allow you to downrank easier. 5mans are pretty easy so you can get by without proper aggro. Plenty of ret pallys with 11/9/31 can slap on RF and get thru a dungy just fine if they put on some plate instead of wearing their leather gimp gear.
I think it's worth getting since toughness isn't that great
Great video! You planning to play a Prot Paladin for Classic?
Hey thanks! Yes I will be playing prot from day one in a duo with my mage buddy. Speaking of which, I saw your duo guide video awhile ago and it was pretty good. Nice to see other pallys who know their stuff :)
BoochieSmash thanks! Likewise always good seeing more Paladins! Are you interested in the prot Paladin discord?
@@telreyne Is that seperate from the generic paladin classic discord? Cuz I'm on that one already, but a secret society of prot pallys sounds neat.
BoochieSmash yeah it is here ya go discord.gg/MWJcU8
@@telreyne as an aspiring paladin tank, would I be allowed to join? :) no worries if not!
whats the best weapon enchant for prot paladin weapon?
Spell Power is really the only good one. Proc based enchants are too infrequent, lifestealing doesn't even scale, and while you can do stuff like 22int, I don't see a point. I personally just do fiery blaze for no real reason, and icy chill since it looks cool.
BoochieSmash I enchanted it with crusader but most people have said fiery. Not sure if they say fiery bc it’s cheaper or better for Pali tho
How do you hold aggro with this build?
Playstyle is more important than build overall.... well baring you have conseceate to keep things simple. If you are planning pulls ahead of time, you'll be able to position the mobs in a way that you secure first dibs on the opener and ride out your threat lead long enough for the mob to die.
Part 2 of this video covers rotation, and I got a bunch of example videos if you need some reference on proper pulling to achieve this goal.
Do you think this build could work for an all-around tank/healing spec for dungeons?
classic.wowhead.com/talent-calc/paladin/05503120501-05325133-052
Swapping maybe between Sanctuary and Divine Favor.
Also Putting 7 points to ret for some extra dmg and mana efficiency for solo content.
Yea it could do fine on a pve server, but without holy shock, reckoning or a heavy ret build you will have a hard time killing people in pvp.
Usually I avoid putting less than 10 points into ret for this reason and stick to either 21/30 or 25/26 for this reason.
The 7 points in ret really doesn't do a lot for you as that basically just makes spamming seals and judgements better which you don't really do when doing aoe solo; you usually will just judge once for wisdom debuff and then keep wisdom seal up in order to sustain your rotation. I dont think the single target gains from those 7 points are worth making your build weaker overall.
Some gameplay would be nice as well
Most definatly. Sadly, I didn't get a beta invite or I woulda had some to work with. Only 2 more days tho!
I don't understand skipping defense and getting reckoning. If a player is going to want to tank dungeons the extra defense is going to make a much larger difference than reckoning, which is only worthwhile if the paladin is getting crit often which a player wouldn't want in a group environment. If you can't tank UBRS in that spec you'll probably have a difficult time healing in it, too.
Finally I don't see the point in including weapon drops from high level dungeons or items that are especially rare or BOE epics. How about guaranteed items from quests so a player can start with something while they farm for any of the weapons on your list?
Reckoning is more for pvp than anything else. The extra auto attack from time to time in pve is more of a bonus. As mentioned in the intro of video, this spec is useful for more than just tanking. That being said, getting crit in 5 man dungeons isn't a big deal to begin with. Between redoubt and holy shield you can push plenty of crits off the table anyway without needing a single point in defense. 5 points for 10 defense just really isn't worth unless you are going for defense cap, which is not at all necessary for dungeons.
UBRS isn't about spec so much as gear. The only noteworthy difference between this build and a full holy build is 5% spell crit, so you can heal just fine alongside the best of them.
Tanking UBRS is rough for low gear levels for all tanks, but paladins also don't have the cooldowns that warriors do or the raw armor that bears do. The lack of taunt and reliance on mana also makes things more difficult than necessary for your entire party. You pretty much need deathbone or tier gear to tank it effectively and those aren't things you have going into UBRS for the first time.
Your starting weps are from Maraudon, a sub level 50 dungeon. Thrash blade is from a the quest for it, fist of stone also drops from there, and both last even as a fresh 60. Really nothing else worth recommending.