Your intuitive knowledge of the class is awesome. So many guides say there is only one spec and it shows that they have less experience with using each of the talents! I'd love to know more about what your priority list is for when you're sealing and judging different packs or mobs as well!
Thanks for the guide. I’ve been figuring it out on my own , but was wondering about a few talents. Keep up the good work Hope all is well. I’ll be tanking in OUTLAND!!!!
Awesome, I just found out your chan today and I just love it. Playing Paladin since classic release and I started to give tanking a try with lvl 50. Got stuck with it, but since I heal in raids I starting to have my own hybrid build. Awesome to get your insight! Please keep it up. Great work
Really liked the topic I'm levelling a paladin tank currently. As I see it you'll need mid 30s to have both improved fury and conc. Which direction would you pick first in levelling to tank content smoothly?
Nice videos! they are really informative and helpfull for prot paladins! :) i have a question regarding the last build you showed (30, 21, 0). Is it possible to swap out blessing of sanctuary for holy shock and use holy shock as kind of a taunt? as far as i've understood holy shock does more damage at almost the same amount of mana as using judgement of righteousnes. and that'll let you keep using seal of wisdom instead of having to swap to seal of righteousness judge and then swap back to SoW. i understand that droping BoS might make you lose threat and take some more damage. (i'm a lvl 55 prot pala at the moment and have no experience at lvl 60 so feel free to correct me if i'm wrong).
Holy Shock is a pretty decent "pickup" ability, but I think Sanctuary is way more valuable overall. Lets you do larger pulls, and the holy damage done when blocking makes it easier to keep the mobs that are already attacking you to continue attacking you. Holy Shock tank builds (Meaning Improved RF) are not really tank builds. They are healing builds that let you occasionally tank when no other tank could be found. Would not be my first pick if you intend to tank more often than once every blue moon.
@@Avoidling Ye you are probably right. Holy shock is maybe not the most important talent for healing in raids either so you get more value from BoS if you want to tank. Thanks for your input! :)
Thanks for posting this, super helpful. How did you build your pally as you leveled up? Is ret the fastest way to level, or is prot/holy just as fast? I suppose if you went prot/holy you could AOE grind. Thoughts?
I leveled as Protection all the way to 60 using the same build that I talk about at the end of the video with Holy Shield and Illumination. Started off going Consecration, then into Prot down to Holy Shield and filled out the final points in Holy after 50+ I leveled mostly in dungeons all the way to 60 so the build worked nicely for that. I do think Ret is overall a better leveling tree unless you have a solid plan for how to level as Protection though. It's just more versatile for outdoor questing and grinding.
if you are interested in faster lvling speed outside dungeons i would go ret until 51 then spec holy/prot for aoe.Holy prot paladin lvling in dungeons is nice with a couple mail/ plate pieces "of the eagle" and fast weapon,you have low downtime.I'm using the same build with Holyfrog(healer/tank) and finding group is so easy :)
How would you pick talents based on saying as a duo paladin team one of us is Tank and the other healer, we are both rushing conscreation for our leveling at the moment, however I have gone for divine strength atm
Hey man do I really need +Defense Rating for tanking 5mans? Im thinking about going more for DPS then Tanking actually. So like focus on Armor+Stam+Int+Spell dmg Rather then using Deathbone for example.
Thanks for the video! I’m far from pro, but I think that putting 5 points into toughness this early on is kinda weak, as at this stage your armor value is not high enough to justify this talent choice. I actually had a question in mind about Blessing of Kings: is it worth learning this talent as early as possible? It’s 10% stat increase at level 30ish when stat values generally are quite low. Has someone done the math on when it’s optimal to cast BoK instead of other blessings? Intuition tells me it’s not worth the talent point this early on.
First of all thx 4 great guide uve made. Ive been levelling up with ret tree till my lv now 41 and i believe it is some time with me to change to prot pally, but how do you manage with sudden aggro reset with some bosses using knockbacks and such? Also how do you find ur prot trees soloing speed? If it is not that miserable i wud happily change into this build...
정지완 The simple answer: He don’t. If you watch his Dungeon videos you’ll notice that DPS or healers grab aggro and as a consequence - die or cant keep him alive and he dies ☺️
Love your videos, brother! I play a protection Paladin on Earthfury-Alliance (US East). I’ve been developing and theory crafting a lot myself and have assembled an impressive set, optimized for both 5man and raid content. Would love to link up in discord and talk shop! Keep up the good work- and fighting the good fight!
You skipped Anticipation entirely (defense talent). Can you explain why and how defense affects a paladin? Is it good for aoe farming and 5 man dungeons, or should I just invest in the bonus armor instead?
you can get the same amount of defense that the talent gives you, from a piece of gear usually. The difference is, the extra points from the anticipation talent, allows you to go into reckoning, and that's going to help with your single target threat a lot. Because reckoning is so important to your threat generation, you almost need to get crit hit sometimes to get the extra melee swings. He said that you can skip kings too, which I don't agree with. Greater blessing of kings + Righteous Fury actually builds threat, especially in a raid scenario, a lot of people have tested and proven this. You're definitely going to need kings to tank anything past 5 man dungeons, but the anticipation talent can be made up with on gear, the reckoning points are far better.
@@spikesbebop36 Thanks. Makes sense. So theoretically you have two choices. Optimize for +defense gear to get def capped and never get crit and avoid crushing blows, or disregard defense entirely and run more spellpower-oriented items and utilize mana more for building threat such as spamming righteoussness judgements?
@@skpro_jects yeah, pretty much dead on. I'm actually running two sets of gear right now. Most of the same pieces in both, but for aoe tanking I'm running a couple more pieces for intellect, mp5 and spellpower items + skullflame shield. For Single target threat, I'm running Draconion shield, HOJ, and a couple other pieces that are higher in stam and armor.
Your base misschance against a raidboss is 9%. Without going into detail, having at least +5 weapon skill reduce that chance to 6%. Precision is a very valuable talent as it effectively gives you 2/3 items worth of hit chance.
I use an 11/22/18 build to get imp ret aura and 5 man's are easy but I do have to bring a mage for water and optimally a druid/warlock for thorns/fire shield, also works great for aoe farming.
Yes it does. It's just not as straight forward as it was on private servers ;) You need to stand up in the same batch window where the attack goes off.
LOL. Raiding prot paladins. Let’s be honest shall we. Protection paladins do not have the means to tank a raid. No taunt, no defensive cooldowns, no way to push crit/crush blows off the hit table, poor threat overall. Once you get some raid gear as a holy paladin (your pally set) you can tank Scholo and Strat fairly well :). I wish this was TBC and Paladins were viable. I loved my TBC paladin that just had to tickle a mob and I would grab Aggro from warriors and Druids
Viable and optimal do not mean the same thing. They are viable, because there are multiple people who have succesfully cleared all content as protection paladins. They are not OPTIMAL though, because content can be cleared much easier with warrior tanks and an occasional feral. And considering what a breeze Molten Core and Ony seem to be in Classic compared to private servers, there is barely any reason to focus too much on minmaxing unless you are competing for top dps/clear times with other guilds.
@@mihaa94sky It is nice to hear some optimism about pala tank here in vanilla. I am considering going pala tank, but I'm worried that it will be hard to get picked as tank in raids since some bosses requires the tank to have a taunt. Whats your experience from what you seen and in your guild/in-game friends?
@@petterson- I tanked as a Prot Paladin on Kronos throughout Molten Core/BWL as offtank and did maintank runs of ZG/AQ20 multiple times. For my time and skill I believe I did decent with it, though it's far from the best that a Prot Paladin can do. I do not believe that a taunt is a necessity to be a succesful tank in most of the encounters Taunt is a clutch ability, not a commodity. Besides, paladins have their own clutch in the form of Blessing of Protection which will temporarily put the overaggroing person out of comission for 10 seconds and get the mob on you if you are still 2nd highest on the threat table. Mana is not a huge problem for Paladins either as some people like to claim. If you are raiding as a Prot Paladin that means you are pretty much hardcore full on devoted so that means you'll be bringing heavy both tank/dps/caster consumables. Demonic/Dark Runes + Major Mana Pots along with a clever use of Judgement of Wisdom should be enough to last you through any encounter. The biggest problem for Paladin tanks in my opinion is their mitigation. They simply take way more damage than an equally geared Warrior or Druid. Paladins can't get immune to crushing blows without first eating a critical hit to pass 100% avoidance (Redoubt talent) and their talents lack spell reflection / "oh shit" cooldowns and it just looks like the whole Prot tree was still in the works at a time. TBC had it right.
depends on how you want to gear, with BIS blues in the current stage of the game i got to 449 defence without any enchants for defence.. havent been crit or had my redbout proc even once since i breached the 440, however it actually hurts your threat to be dodging and parrying so much as you get no proc's of your reti aura. Raid tanking again is about spamming GBOK your just not going to hold aggro without this tactic sadly, and i have found it near impossible to hold the threat without 7 or more of the same class... thankfully most guilds are warrior heavy currently so its not to hard to generate a stupid amout of threat with this method. It dose however leave you nearly completely unable to tank in 5 mans as it drops your threat basicly off the table, im aiming to finish up my T2 set for the spell power and with all my trinkets ect ect i will have 370ish defence, that wont leave me crit immune but its enough not to get splatted and will stop redbout from being a useless talent spend
Oh boy u were wrong lol, paladin is the best tank now thanks to GbOk spam lol. Warrior is also absolute toilet waste in solo play and boosting. Paladin>Warrior in Classic and Paladin>>>>>>>>>Warrior in TBC
This is such a helpful video. Explains the talent points themselves really well and your reasoning behind your picks. Great job!
Your intuitive knowledge of the class is awesome. So many guides say there is only one spec and it shows that they have less experience with using each of the talents! I'd love to know more about what your priority list is for when you're sealing and judging different packs or mobs as well!
Next up you should google, why am I a psycho jealous loser. Great results.
Great protection paladin video. I will be using this in Hardcore
Thanks for the guide. I’ve been figuring it out on my own , but was wondering about a few talents.
Keep up the good work
Hope all is well.
I’ll be tanking in OUTLAND!!!!
You can play ''2H'' Prot build in 1-41 and can even tank dungoens.. Just replace the Shield talents with Armor.
Awesome, I just found out your chan today and I just love it. Playing Paladin since classic release and I started to give tanking a try with lvl 50. Got stuck with it, but since I heal in raids I starting to have my own hybrid build. Awesome to get your insight! Please keep it up. Great work
Well done video! Thank you
Hi, it's almost 2021 and your guides on prot paladins are still relevant, and really helpful.
Thanks for this guide! It is a good one for sure.
Really liked the topic I'm levelling a paladin tank currently. As I see it you'll need mid 30s to have both improved fury and conc. Which direction would you pick first in levelling to tank content smoothly?
Nice videos! they are really informative and helpfull for prot paladins! :) i have a question regarding the last build you showed (30, 21, 0). Is it possible to swap out blessing of sanctuary for holy shock and use holy shock as kind of a taunt? as far as i've understood holy shock does more damage at almost the same amount of mana as using judgement of righteousnes. and that'll let you keep using seal of wisdom instead of having to swap to seal of righteousness judge and then swap back to SoW. i understand that droping BoS might make you lose threat and take some more damage. (i'm a lvl 55 prot pala at the moment and have no experience at lvl 60 so feel free to correct me if i'm wrong).
Holy Shock is a pretty decent "pickup" ability, but I think Sanctuary is way more valuable overall. Lets you do larger pulls, and the holy damage done when blocking makes it easier to keep the mobs that are already attacking you to continue attacking you.
Holy Shock tank builds (Meaning Improved RF) are not really tank builds. They are healing builds that let you occasionally tank when no other tank could be found. Would not be my first pick if you intend to tank more often than once every blue moon.
@@Avoidling Ye you are probably right. Holy shock is maybe not the most important talent for healing in raids either so you get more value from BoS if you want to tank. Thanks for your input! :)
Thanks for posting this, super helpful. How did you build your pally as you leveled up? Is ret the fastest way to level, or is prot/holy just as fast? I suppose if you went prot/holy you could AOE grind. Thoughts?
I leveled as Protection all the way to 60 using the same build that I talk about at the end of the video with Holy Shield and Illumination. Started off going Consecration, then into Prot down to Holy Shield and filled out the final points in Holy after 50+
I leveled mostly in dungeons all the way to 60 so the build worked nicely for that. I do think Ret is overall a better leveling tree unless you have a solid plan for how to level as Protection though. It's just more versatile for outdoor questing and grinding.
if you are interested in faster lvling speed outside dungeons i would go ret until 51 then spec holy/prot for aoe.Holy prot paladin lvling in dungeons is nice with a couple mail/ plate pieces "of the eagle" and fast weapon,you have low downtime.I'm using the same build with Holyfrog(healer/tank) and finding group is so easy :)
Great vid
Nice vid :) can u show us the reckoning marco and how u use it?
thx for explanation. i’m playing pala tank in som
How would you pick talents based on saying as a duo paladin team one of us is Tank and the other healer, we are both rushing conscreation for our leveling at the moment, however I have gone for divine strength atm
dude, your a genious
Hey man do I really need +Defense Rating for tanking 5mans? Im thinking about going more for DPS then Tanking actually. So like focus on Armor+Stam+Int+Spell dmg Rather then using Deathbone for example.
Thanks for the video! I’m far from pro, but I think that putting 5 points into toughness this early on is kinda weak, as at this stage your armor value is not high enough to justify this talent choice. I actually had a question in mind about Blessing of Kings: is it worth learning this talent as early as possible? It’s 10% stat increase at level 30ish when stat values generally are quite low. Has someone done the math on when it’s optimal to cast BoK instead of other blessings? Intuition tells me it’s not worth the talent point this early on.
First of all thx 4 great guide uve made. Ive been levelling up with ret tree till my lv now 41 and i believe it is some time with me to change to prot pally, but how do you manage with sudden aggro reset with some bosses using knockbacks and such? Also how do you find ur prot trees soloing speed? If it is not that miserable i wud happily change into this build...
정지완 The simple answer: He don’t. If you watch his Dungeon videos you’ll notice that DPS or healers grab aggro and as a consequence - die or cant keep him alive and he dies ☺️
you are a god
Love your videos, brother! I play a protection Paladin on Earthfury-Alliance (US East). I’ve been developing and theory crafting a lot myself and have assembled an impressive set, optimized for both 5man and raid content. Would love to link up in discord and talk shop! Keep up the good work- and fighting the good fight!
You skipped Anticipation entirely (defense talent). Can you explain why and how defense affects a paladin? Is it good for aoe farming and 5 man dungeons, or should I just invest in the bonus armor instead?
you can get the same amount of defense that the talent gives you, from a piece of gear usually. The difference is, the extra points from the anticipation talent, allows you to go into reckoning, and that's going to help with your single target threat a lot. Because reckoning is so important to your threat generation, you almost need to get crit hit sometimes to get the extra melee swings. He said that you can skip kings too, which I don't agree with. Greater blessing of kings + Righteous Fury actually builds threat, especially in a raid scenario, a lot of people have tested and proven this. You're definitely going to need kings to tank anything past 5 man dungeons, but the anticipation talent can be made up with on gear, the reckoning points are far better.
@@spikesbebop36 Thanks. Makes sense. So theoretically you have two choices. Optimize for +defense gear to get def capped and never get crit and avoid crushing blows, or disregard defense entirely and run more spellpower-oriented items and utilize mana more for building threat such as spamming righteoussness judgements?
@@skpro_jects yeah, pretty much dead on. I'm actually running two sets of gear right now. Most of the same pieces in both, but for aoe tanking I'm running a couple more pieces for intellect, mp5 and spellpower items + skullflame shield. For Single target threat, I'm running Draconion shield, HOJ, and a couple other pieces that are higher in stam and armor.
if you are missing defense in order to get crit immune you can pick this, otherwise skip it
Can someone plz reply, do u need precision as human paladin? Thought that 5% specilization gives you hitchances already
Your base misschance against a raidboss is 9%. Without going into detail, having at least +5 weapon skill reduce that chance to 6%. Precision is a very valuable talent as it effectively gives you 2/3 items worth of hit chance.
Bro More Videos on Prot Pallies
!
I use an 11/22/18 build to get imp ret aura and 5 man's are easy but I do have to bring a mage for water and optimally a druid/warlock for thorns/fire shield, also works great for aoe farming.
Hey I'm interested in doing the same build. Is this kinda what you went for talent wise?
classicdb.ch/?talent#sE0zZVhtI0zoZVfxz0b
Do you have Discord? I would love to pick your brain on someting
/sit macro doesnt work in classic
Yes it does. It's just not as straight forward as it was on private servers ;) You need to stand up in the same batch window where the attack goes off.
WTF. I cant see shyte in this video!
LOL. Raiding prot paladins.
Let’s be honest shall we. Protection paladins do not have the means to tank a raid. No taunt, no defensive cooldowns, no way to push crit/crush blows off the hit table, poor threat overall.
Once you get some raid gear as a holy paladin (your pally set) you can tank Scholo and Strat fairly well :).
I wish this was TBC and Paladins were viable. I loved my TBC paladin that just had to tickle a mob and I would grab Aggro from warriors and Druids
Viable and optimal do not mean the same thing. They are viable, because there are multiple people who have succesfully cleared all content as protection paladins. They are not OPTIMAL though, because content can be cleared much easier with warrior tanks and an occasional feral. And considering what a breeze Molten Core and Ony seem to be in Classic compared to private servers, there is barely any reason to focus too much on minmaxing unless you are competing for top dps/clear times with other guilds.
@@mihaa94sky It is nice to hear some optimism about pala tank here in vanilla. I am considering going pala tank, but I'm worried that it will be hard to get picked as tank in raids since some bosses requires the tank to have a taunt. Whats your experience from what you seen and in your guild/in-game friends?
@@petterson- I tanked as a Prot Paladin on Kronos throughout Molten Core/BWL as offtank and did maintank runs of ZG/AQ20 multiple times. For my time and skill I believe I did decent with it, though it's far from the best that a Prot Paladin can do.
I do not believe that a taunt is a necessity to be a succesful tank in most of the encounters Taunt is a clutch ability, not a commodity. Besides, paladins have their own clutch in the form of Blessing of Protection which will temporarily put the overaggroing person out of comission for 10 seconds and get the mob on you if you are still 2nd highest on the threat table.
Mana is not a huge problem for Paladins either as some people like to claim. If you are raiding as a Prot Paladin that means you are pretty much hardcore full on devoted so that means you'll be bringing heavy both tank/dps/caster consumables. Demonic/Dark Runes + Major Mana Pots along with a clever use of Judgement of Wisdom should be enough to last you through any encounter.
The biggest problem for Paladin tanks in my opinion is their mitigation. They simply take way more damage than an equally geared Warrior or Druid. Paladins can't get immune to crushing blows without first eating a critical hit to pass 100% avoidance (Redoubt talent) and their talents lack spell reflection / "oh shit" cooldowns and it just looks like the whole Prot tree was still in the works at a time. TBC had it right.
depends on how you want to gear, with BIS blues in the current stage of the game i got to 449 defence without any enchants for defence.. havent been crit or had my redbout proc even once since i breached the 440, however it actually hurts your threat to be dodging and parrying so much as you get no proc's of your reti aura.
Raid tanking again is about spamming GBOK your just not going to hold aggro without this tactic sadly, and i have found it near impossible to hold the threat without 7 or more of the same class... thankfully most guilds are warrior heavy currently so its not to hard to generate a stupid amout of threat with this method.
It dose however leave you nearly completely unable to tank in 5 mans as it drops your threat basicly off the table, im aiming to finish up my T2 set for the spell power and with all my trinkets ect ect i will have 370ish defence, that wont leave me crit immune but its enough not to get splatted and will stop redbout from being a useless talent spend
Oh boy u were wrong lol, paladin is the best tank now thanks to GbOk spam lol. Warrior is also absolute toilet waste in solo play and boosting. Paladin>Warrior in Classic and Paladin>>>>>>>>>Warrior in TBC