The Contrarians Presents: Not All Good Grunge Comes From Seattle
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- Опубліковано 1 жов 2024
- Does all good Grunge need to come from Seattle? Let us know what you think in the comments!
The Contrarians is a show where one of us jumps in the hot seat picks a dark horse album from a band as that band's best album. The guest host will argue against them with facts, stats and all around truth, subjective and objective!
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2 words FUDGE TUNNEL out of the UK they slayed it!!!
Albums
HATE SONGS IN E MINOR
Creep Diets
Ignorance in Futility
(they have more they kill it.)
The UK band Basement is pretty much a modern day grunge band. Their 2012 album Colourmeinkindness sounds like it is right out of 1994.
Hi all. Love the channel to death.
I see others in the comments got there before me, but worth mentioning again; Babes In Toyland, L7 & Hole. R.I.P. Kristen Pfaff. Couple of these (one in particular) may be considered Seattle bands, by association, but none formed there. All have some essential albums.
I noticed someone mentioned Killdozer. I haven't played that band for years - only because there's just not enough hours in the day. I'm going to revisit their 'Twelve Point Buck' LP (produced by Butch Vig) at my earliest convenience. I urge you all to do the same. New Pants & Shirt anyone?
I'd argue that grunge peaked before it was even called grunge with Green River, Mudhoney and Tad, so I prefer the bands that were influences that pre-dated grunge -- Melvins, Dinosaur Jr, Soul Asylum (their three albums from 1986-88, not the major label landfill indie from the 90s), Die Kreuzen, and the Scientists, who were name checked as a big influence on Seattle scene. Also from Australia were Cosmic Psychos and Bored!
The only two UK bands i like that were at least partially influenced by grunge early on were Swervedriver and Catherine Wheel.
One not mentioned, and an utterly brilliant band... The Afghan Whigs out of Ohio.
Agree completely , an incredible band
Soul Asylum.. Minneapolis
L7.. LA
Filter.. Cleveland
Soul Asylum’s a great shout. Love that band
I just got into Sponge a few weeks ago, they're really good. Also bought the Loudhouse album (which is the band before Sponge-same singer).
Would The Wildhearts fit in that category? I think so, they were power-pop/ glam/ punk but they had that grungy attitude and rawness to them, and they released some crazy good records in the early/mid 90's.
Cheers.
Kenny Mugwump didn't sing for sponge . Tim Cross just passed a couple years ago
@@bryanmcfadden4071 My bad. But Sponge's vocalist was the drummer of Loudhouse. That's why I got that mixed up.
Would like to thank the kid from the interior for suggesting Sons Of Freedom and The Slow albums. All I can say is wow! Just two killer albums that are new to me. After all of course the top tier bands from Seattle were influenced by these 2 great Vancouver bands. Just look on a map where Vancouver is in relation to Seattle. Great job Martin and show guys.
Great topic! 2 bands came to mind that are all-female: L7 from Los Angeles and Babes In Toyland from Minneapolis. I was also thinking pre-grunge or proto-grunge: the punk rock roots of Flipper from San Francisco and Tales Of Terror from Sacramento, a band often classified as "skate-punk," but they had some grunge-elements that influenced the early Seattle bands. Maybe toss in Lubricated Goat from Australia... Killdozer from Madison, Wisconsin. I was also thinking of Slow, but I should have known Martin had them in his stack!!
Shitlist by L7 is a killer cut! Babes in Toyland definitely remember the name but will need to revisit. Just listened to the Slow ep that Martin showed, it's very good!
@@nickvickers3486 That Slow EP is a ripper!
Back in the late 90's when I worked at Fantagraphics warehouse with all the "Grunge" rockers, Martin Bland from Lubricated Goat worked there. He was in the band The Monkeywrench with Mark Arm and Tom Price, who both also worked there. Most of the people that worked in that warehouse were "Grunge" luminaries . . . but they were actually just punk rockers for as long as I can remember. The Seattle music scene was pretty small until all the aspiring "Grunge" rockers moved to town in the early 90's. When we would see Mark Arm on the street we would jokingly yell "ROCK STAR!!!" at him.
@@christopheranderson2576 Wow, that's great! Fantagraphics has done so much good stuff over the years, I didn't know Martin Bland (or any other musicians in the area) worked there. I used to mail order stuff from Fantagraphics.
Smashing Pumpkins from Chicago
Local H and Urge Overkill (Chicago)
Jamie cited Sponge as one of his examples of a non-Seattle grunge band and mentioned his adoration for some of their albums. He also had some negative comments about their album, The Man, as being an Alice In Chains knock off.
I’d never heard of this band before so upon listening to this podcast, I’d go sample stuff from all of the panelists’ lists, including said AIC knock of album, The Man, and I loved it! So much I went and ordered a new copy of it on eBay! AIC rip off? Perhaps, but it sounded like ear candy to me! Thanks Jamie!
I was a fan of a lot of this music while I was going through high school during the early 90's, straight during the height of this era. This is the opinion that I had both back in the day, and I feel even stronger about it now. When everyone is talking about "Grunge," they are talking about heavy alternative or alternative metal or even alternative rock from the 90's. For me, "Grunge" is the label specifically given to the heavy alternative scene of Seattle, and only Seattle, including the bands from the mid 80's until 1992. If the band is not from Seattle, they're not "Grunge." They are alt metal or heavy alternative, or simply alt-rock. If the band came out after 1992, they are Post-Grunge if they are a band that was trying to copy the "Grunge Sound." For instance, I can't even call Candlebox a grunge band, even though they are from Seattle. They came out too late, so I would call them the very first Post-Grunge band.
This isn't a judgement call against any band, although I personally can't stand a lot of post-grunge bands. The Seattle bands didn't really like that term themselves. But, the term was a marketing label created specifically to describe that Seattle scene, not the totality of alt rock or alt metal.
Screaming trees were the best band from the grunge era
I love Helmet. Especially early Helmet.
The Fluid is grunge, but Dinosaur Jr is too old to be grunge. The same goes to Meat Puppets, Sonic Youth, even Pixies. They were all a big influence. The Pumpkins were not grunge and neither influenced by it (Gish is prior to Nevermind - their mix bag of influences had more to do with Jane's A.). Back in 91, no one called AIC/Pearl Jam grunge. Grunge had more to do with US alternative rock of the late 80s (slack but intelectual, melodic but punkish). AIC was borderline angry hard-rock in 1990, Pearl Jam was college classic rock (70's Bad Company + REM). Through the years, grunge became associated with the alternative-heavy music from late 80s/early 90s. Hence the mentions to King's X, No Means No, Helmet... BTW: Kyuss was not grunge at all. Just because they also loved Sabbath, don't make'em grunge. Speaking UK bands, Swervedriver is not grunge, but their 91 debut (Raise) is brilliant and could totally fit in (they are as grunge as a lot of non-grunge bands mentioned). Cheers.
Swervedrivers a good shout.
''Back in 91, no one called AIC/Pearl Jam grunge'' Except basically every magazine called them grunge. Kerrang, Metal Hammer, Raw, it was only Hit Parader that called it ''rock n' roll''.
Tankhog. Sons of Freedom
Of course there is the inventor of grunge, who a lot of players of the era reguard as The Godfather of grunge in 1979 ,Neil Young! He even invented the grunge look.
I'm not a Grunge fan. I was fifteen in 1991 and I didn't connect with that scene at all. Too corporate for me.
But one of my favorite albums of the 90's is Thank You by Royal Trux. Sounds like the Stones of Exile On Main Street in the 90's even more drugged-out.
Do you consider it a Grunge album, Martin?
Great show thanks!!! Check out Daily Thompson from Germany. I think they are amazing en they make defenly grung.
Man ! Martin mentioned the Fluid ! Loved their 1st album ! Wasn't their first album on Sub Pop ?
Theres no such thing as grunge completely made up by the media. Dont believe me read Everybody Loves My Town. Most of those bands are alt rock, punk or alt metal.
AIC and Soundgarden were pretty much metal, they certainly featured in Metal Hammer and Kerrang. Grunge is a corporate label, I prefer to call it, American Guitar Rock!
"American guitar rock" is an ironic title for that genre.
Agree that "grunge" is alt rock / punk
@@nickvickers3486 Pearl Jam, Nirvana and Stone Temple Pilots were all also heavily featured in Metal Hammer and Kerrang.
@@Tompa8989 they probably were, which is cool because I liked all the loud music with guitars in the 90s! I seem to remember Metal Hammer being a bit more metally but maybe not. It's been a long time but I suppose those mags were metal, hard rock, alternative rock and punk in focus?
GRUNGE was just IMHO was just a label depicting the complete opposite of Glam or Glittery look of "Hair Metal". GRUNGE in my opinion it was a return to the basics it had that DIY approach that the spirit of PUNK had. Yada yada yada. My opinion SOUNDGARDEN and Alice In Chains wasn't GRUNGE they were just a HEAVY ROCK bands.
I love the Mindbomb album. That album is all over the place. Maybe has some grungy-like songs. Never made that connection though.
Not an grunge fan.
Was more into metal.
Can remember a party at highschool the day Far Beyond Driven was released. We all got in during Vulgar so it was our first new Pantera album.
We were all very exited but we were at the party so it was Nirvana and Pearl Jam through the loudspeakers 😫
Right on Martin for the mention of MINDFUNK! That album kicks serious ass from start to finish. As they say all killer no filler.
Cosmic Psychos? Hellacopters!
Ya know, this could be intriguing concept to milk dry. Not that these places aren't the best in their genre, but it could be an intriguing way to highlight rare top tier competitors from other places: for instance, Does all good prog come from the U.K.? Does all the great metal come from the U.K. (early 80s)? Does all good thrash come from the U.S.? Does all good hair metal come from the U.S.?
Hello Martin...the man who knows his music inside out...being someone who is from Great Britain your colleague on there has not got a clue......there are only 2 bands who you could associate with Grunge in the UK at the time are Headswim and Send No Flowers
K I N G’S X invented the “Seattle Sound” in Katy,Texas! 1988
Possibly the most stupid comment ever.
You are correct. Jerry Cantrell would agree, as well.
Exactly..
Jimi Hendrix predated them all.
@@mistymangham4410 Jimi Hendrix played Psychedelic Rock and Blues in the 1960’s. Grunge wasn’t a thing until 1988.
Re: the 'Britrock', that Stiltskin record is pretty cool, the Wildhearts kick ass. I'd to like to add Therapy? to the mix, lots of heavy riffing, angsty songs and vocals but wth melody and singalong choruses! BTW it's great you guys are covering 90s stuff!
In terms of other British rock bands active in the 90s; Terrorvision, Thunder, Reef, Skin (the band), Skunk Anansie (with Skin the singer), A, 3 Colours Red, Apes Pigs and Spacemen, The Charlatans, Catatonia, Ash, and My Drug Hell are all worth checking out!!!
Bit of mixed bag there but all can be seen as occupying the space between britpop (which is indie pop/rock selling more?) and well, metal
Some great bands there. Therapy? & Terrorvision definitely fit in here.
Not Grunge, but one noise band I like is the Cows. This show made me think of them because some terms for music of groups are so ambiguous. Alt-metal?
Great show Martin...Some others: Afghan Whigs from Cincinnati; Guillotina from Mexico; Catedral from Bogotá
Whigs or Wings? I'll certainly check out the Latin American bands you mention, do they sing in Spanish?
@@nickvickers3486 Yes, they do...Guillotina first record was produced by Jack Endino (Nirvana, Soundgarden, Mudhoney)...another one was Juanita Dientes Verdes from Medellín
The Afghan Whigs, they are from Cincinnati, such an underrated band
@@nickvickers3486 I remember the irish band Therapy?...almost 'Troublegum' from 94 could be taking into the grunge wave...Journalist always labeled them like 'Alternative Metal' but, if Martin Poppoff put Helmet in this list, for sure first Therapy? records must be as well
@@DanBerm I've actually been listening to a fair bit of Therapy? this week, some Troublegum and some of Hard Cold Fire from last year, which is pretty good. They got really big in Britain all the kids at school who were into guitar music were into them, they riffed hard, had the attitude but also the hooks and the melodies. From thrash to Britpop they were able suck in fans from everywhere. The guys mentioned The Wildhearts and also Terrorvision were another great example of that!
Meat Puppets” Monsters”😀❤️🎼
Tonic, collective soul, and candlebox were huge and grunge
Tales Of Terror and The Stooges were two of the major influences on the bands from Seattle who would later be called "Grunge".
Flowerhead out of Texas: had never heard of them until the band was mentioned on another program on this channel.
Collective Soul out of Georgia: may e not considered grunge now but when they started, they were lumped in with the grunge crowd..
Collective Soul is a great choice!
A few great bands I would put on this list stone temple pilots sponge seven marry three and silverchair
Grunge a bunch of nonsese. MUSIC IND changed the name from metal. Soundgarden was Heavy Metal who ripped off TROUBLE ! In the 60s all over the world there were guys with shaggy hair , flannel shirts and distorted guitars jamming in garages. Basements everywhere. Then they made this God awful movie Singles - pathetic ! Bands like Pearl Japan today are considered safe rock bands. Nobody's emo feelings get hurt. Total crap 15:57
Soundgarden heavy metal even though they loved The Stooges just as much as Black Sabbath and had a clear punk influence in their music ? Hmmmm seems like grunge to me.
That doesn't mean anything, do you have any idea the number of Metal bands who were influenced by Punk? Some Metal genres wouldn't even exist without Punk, that doesn't mean their not Metal though.
It's a stupid American thing where they've got to put a label on everything. Where I grew up in Australia the winters are cold so we all wore flannel shirts and grew our hair long like the kids in places in Seattle. All those bands were completely different but mainstream America has to put them in a box and blame them for killing off their guys looking like chick's singing about their dicks bands.
Like Ramones and Motoread@@neuroisis85
@@MsKalachakra Ramones? Where do you hear any Metal in that?
The band Slow from Vancouver were at the front of a lot of this, as well as punk like the Subhumans and DOA who played frequently down in Washington state, mixed together with the Kiss/Led Zep/Sabbath influence.
Great recipe for some classic records that stand the test of time!
Magic Dirt from Geelong Australia
Halo Of Flies from Minnesota, a standout song is “ Headburn”.😀❤️🎼
Good choice.That is more like a noise, garage band to my ears and a great band none the less.Tom Hazelmyer the guitarist and founder of Amphetamine Reptile is a force to be reckoned with.Check the band and the label out.
The Fluid - Denver
Phil. please lower the bass on your mic. It's quite boomy sounding.
With respect Phil, I agree. Tech feedback ❤
Will do thanks!!
And live
Red Hot Chili Peppers are grunge?
No way. Not even grunge adjacent. The only connection is you can put them under the massive "alternative rock" umbrella like you can also put grunge there.
Even though, not a grunge band, in three albums, the Posies have a few songs with a grunge feel/sound... To my ears at least - Frosting on the beater (93), Amazing disgrace (96), and Failure (98).
Proto grunge Killdozer-Intellectuals are the Shoeshine Boys of the Ruling Elite (1984)
*Promo sm*
As far as song writing, Pavement is maybe my favorite of the "grunge" bands.
No they are clearly indie rock.
Pavement clearly is not a grunge band. Love the band.
No. I heard them called grunge before. But, yeah it doesn't really fit. I have all the albums.
Prince of Lillies label is Grungepop 😄
Mental Hippie Blood. A grunge band from Sweden. Put out 2 good records. They came back and released a new song late last year that sounds like it was recorded in the 90s. Wonder if they have a name album coming out.
Eleven Pictures (sounded like Soundgarden), Drain S.T.H. (sounded like a female Alice in Chains), Stardog (sounded like a mix between Nirvana and Screaming Trees) were all from Sweden also. And Jack in the Box from Norway, sounded like Alice in Chains.
Yeah Drain STH were great.
Bush are from London and they do great American Guitar Rock!
Send No Flowers was a decent grunge band from the UK. Headswim (1st album) is another UK one.
@@Chaz4543 I'll have to check out Send No Flowers, I do remember Headswim though, they were pretty cool!
Bush are a really good shout. I had to get them in somehow!
Good grunge? There's no such thing.
No grunge is good! Its totaly crap..
Not a fan either, I like hearing Martin talk about genres as a part of his approach to history.
Lmao
The 90' and grunge are shit.👎
Look beyond the hype.