As music lovers we tend to forget that most people are not as passionate as we are about music, so most casual listeners do not feel the need, perhaps don't even think about going beyond the hit they heard and check out the full album of the artist. It seems many young people discovered Kate Bush because of Stranger Things, but how many of them probably only listened to Running Up That Hill and didn't go further in her discography ? And that's neither good or bad, how much music means to you, the role it has in your life is very personal and unique.
Yes music is subjective, just like art, so it's always gonna be a personal experience. That's why many of these "best" arguments as applied to music are meaningless when you really think about it - best to whom?
You're right, the time invested for me to discover every band I enjoy was thousands of hours. Granted- there are people who waste just about the same amount of time messing around and being non-productive, but you can't assume that people working 2 jobs, raising kids or just dividing their free time between other activities should know every single thing. It's only cool to music shame someone if they're absolutely being obnoxious and disrespectful. In that case I approve of cyber bullying lol
@@gabriellarrubia1006 Exactly. To get to know a band's discography takes time, even more time to get to know a whole unknown genre of music. And time ? Well, most people do not have that much unfortunately. Same things could be said about cinema, painting, literature, history etc. Appreciating an art or a subject is great but we should not forget that it is far from easy, that it takes lots of dedication and perseverance, to hopefully, ending up being passionate and fascinated by what we discovered, to perhaps going even further.
@@alternativepreacher4516 Excellent comments. Time is an important factor when it comes to appreciating music (same with literature, films, etc.) As such, I'm very selective with things I give my attention to (especially these days), mainly because I'm the type that loves to spend time digesting a piece of work, and getting to know it well (same for books, films, etc.) Couple that with my interest in countless genres, and it becomes even more complicated. There are all kinds of interesting things coming from all corners of the globe (and from countless points in time), and it is simply impossible to hear everything (much less digest it.) As listeners/consumers, sometimes we have to make a conscious effort to draw the line somewhere, and recognize that it is perfectly fine to do so; Nothing wrong with slowing one's pace when it comes to buying/listening. It's like having an occasional glass of wine - I am going to sip it slowly, and savor every drop; Can't quite enjoy it if I gulp it down in a minute. I spend some months listening to an album (or rotate between two different ones) before moving on to something else. Of course, this process varies from individual to individual (most listeners probably move at a much faster pace.)
That loud, angry guitar by Jimmy Page in the middle section of "Carouselambra" is still one of Zep's best musical moments! Damn does that guitar tone sound great.
@@phillipanderson7398 Interesting don't have that...Actually I might be mistaken (kind of), just found on YT a video of Zep playing it live in 1980 (Victoria Theatre, London, UK May 1980). Actually not really "live" in the traditional sense, it's really a rough mix of a studio take of the song (about 2 mins shorter than the final version)...I've read that Zep had "Carouselambra" on their proposed setlist of their Fall 1980 North American tour (which of course never happened due to Bonham's passing)
I've listened to that one the other night and boy, was I in tears (happy tears that is!!) John Paul's arrangements with the synths even toward the third act are priceless.
it IS a great song...not in my top 5, but definitely in my top 10...I had to leave "No Quarter" and "Over The Hills & Far Away" out of my top 5 as well, so Zep was a tough one...
I have read several interviews over the years where the artists say they would have preferred a different song be a single than the ones became the hits. Personally the deep tracks often go high up my top song lists and doing rankings of deep cuts only is often a lot of fun for me. Great topic gents!
I've always believed that just because something is more popular does not necessarily mean it's the best. I've gotten where I prefer the deep cuts more than the popular hits. At least they're deep cuts to me.
The other side of this is quotes from artists where they say they never thought that single 'x' would be a hit but then it was. Record execs generally pick the songs from albums to be released (pushed) as singles & they're guessing (excluding self-released albums). If you sign the checks then you get to pick. There is a formula that gets applied to popular music as well that probably gets frequently used as a guide when picking them. Sometimes it works & sometimes it doesn't. To me the thing about deep tracks is that they appeal to me because I don't hear 'em all the time, but that's a "self-fulfilling prophecy" in a way because that by definition is what makes the deep tracks "deep" in the first place
@@j.woodbury412 Of course that's true (for example I have a playlist called "Unknown 70's Rock" with over 5,000 really good tracks, and that's just 70's rock - without any prog/fusion - no "hits"). There's another side to this, which are the songs that became very popular without ever being actual "singles". Going back far enough, the single was the way to promote individual songs (with or without an album). So this third category of songs are the popular tunes (and therefore not "deep cuts") that were never singles/hits as such but in the album era were spotlighted & played enough to become popular without that singles machine pushing them. AOR radio had a lot to do with that, also "classic rock" stations. Great example: "Stairway To Heaven", arguably THE Led Zep track known to everyone but never released as a single. Also one of their best. So not a "hit" per se but also certainly not a deep cut. Others: "Here Comes The Sun", "LA Woman", “Space Truckin", “YYZ”...Maybe another SoT show topic...?🤷♂
@@wolf1977 I think that sounds like a very good idea for a SoT show topic. And what you said is very true. I wonder how many other "popular" songs were never released as singles.
I don't know what the weather is like here.....I no longer go outside thanks to essential viewing like this channel! Big thanks, Pete and Martin! Great bands albums NEED to be listener to TOP TO BOTTOM, as they were intended to be!
I absolutely love these discussions! Thanks, Pete and Martin for this wonderful video! Like many other comments, I agree that it depends on how much that person is invested in music. There are the folks who like music and those like us who are music fans. I know a lot of people who like the "hits playlist" from Spotify but don't even know the band/artist names. They just go with whatever is playing, not paying attention to the artist. And, in a very weird way, I think it's fine. Because, in the end, they are listening to music and getting exposed to our beloved art form. From time to time, one of those folks is open to digging a little deeper into a specific artist. And, if I'm there to help, I'll do my best to support them and expand their horizons. :)
I agree, listening to music is a personal experience so whatever works for a given individual is OK. I didn't used to think that when I was (a lot) younger...😎
Pete and Martin, another great episode, the 2 of you discussing music is the best of its kind on the net! Some hits I love, some I hate, it depends on the song. In concert, I do tend to want to hear the deeper cuts
...I have a friend who is "the hits, and nothing but the hits"...pisses me off. Went to see BOC with Foghat a few years back...he knew only 1 of the BOC songs...and a handful of the Foghat songs...he likes "tribute" bands, so we went to see 2 different Zeppelin tribute bands....one played "the usual suspects," and the other did a whole host of "deep cuts." Both were really good, but he was extraordinarily pissed-off about the "deep cut" version...I try to get him to appreciate other things (new and old bands alike), but due to the crappy local FM radio stations we had (and STILL have, I'm afraid) I fear that there will be little luck changing his mind, since he is of the mind that "the only songs worth listening to are the ones on the radio"...AAARRRGGGHHH!!!
Talking hits, a good topic would be:"Overlooked gems - songs that should be hits - or at least get classsic status". For instance, I always thought Maiden's "Prodigal Son" should get that classic song status (not a hit, but the same classic status that The Prisoner has). Another song that should receive classic status is "I love her all I can" by Kiss (not a hit, but that classic status like "Parasite" has). And then, there are those songs that should be hits - like AC/DC's "Touch too Much"
That's an odd choice. The first time I ever heard Iron Maiden - Killers I honestly thought that I accidentally switched my stereo to Radio when Prodigal Son started playing. It definitely was the most Radio friendly Song in Iron Maiden's career. There were similar hits by Bad Company and Head East
If I like a song or songs, I like it, regardless if it was a hit or not. Some times I disliked the hit but love the album. Example is Molly Hatchet - Flirtin' With Disaster .... Whiskey Man favorite song down to least favorite song is the title cut. I'm an independent, and I don't like someone trying to tell me what to like.
One thing to do up front is define what is meant by "a hit". In olden days I think it referenced a song released as a single that became popular (and sold well), the broader definition being anything "broadly popular or well-known". With the age of LP's also came songs that might be called "hits" but were never singles. How to classify a track like Led Zep's "Stairway"? Everyone knows it & played to death on radio but never a single. Definitely not a "deep track". It does meet the broader definition. Do we also factor in # of online streams & radio play?
I really enjoyed this one - You could get another 2 to 3 additional shows on this subject alone. Please, PLEASE consider a few more shows on this topic for the funhouse. You could go with : RUSH, The Doors, The Stooges, King Crimson, Van Halen, Pink Floyd, Kate Bush, Motorhead, Rainbow, Dio, Ozzy, Iron Maiden, The Kinks, Genesis, The Rolling Stones, The Scorpions, Yes, The Beatles , Frank Zappa , Neil Young, Darkthrone, Venom, Max Webster, Voivod, Death, Slayer, Deep Purple, The Who, Big Star - so many great bands and artists to choose from. Martin faked me out - I thought you were going to do Thin Lizzy today, and my mind was racing trying to think of my top 5 Lizzy songs ( it doesn't help that I'm having a Lizzy-listening-fest at the moment) .
I think they could do a full hour show on picking their own hits from each of these bands! And starting with Thin Lizzy, because yes, Martin faked me out too.
@@treff9226 : They're stunning albums! I often wonder how much Alex Chilton influenced the early Cramps sound in studio - obviously they had a unique style going into recording their first album, I just wonder how involved Chilton was in the weaving of Bryan Gregory and Poison Ivy's guitars - because they're really two very disparate guitar sounds there, and yet, they seamlessly mix together. "Gravest Hits", and "Songs The Lord Taught Us" are my favourite Cramps recordings, and Chilton produced both of them.
@@shaunasteele8838 If you like Big Star & don't know about Van Duren yet then check him out! Ran in the same circles & actually tried out for Big Star at one point. He actually has even more good music than BS, right along the same lines. At least 5 great albums
Both Ozzy and Tony were on stage together in Birmingham on 8 August (3 weeks ago) closing the Commonwealth Games Closing Ceremony at the Alexander Stadium. Tommy Clufetos on drums and Adam Wakeman (son of Rick) on bass, both will be known to Sabbath and Ozzie fans. They played Paranoid of course!!! For those in UK, it’s still available on BBC iPlayer.
....This is yet another killer topic ! ...Thanx Pete Thanx Martin ....I've been a Gold Miner since the early 70's with Bands and certainly the deep cuts as well ....If you love the band and spin the albums into the night 🌙..its tough not to strike Gold ! .....Love the Show ...but then you probably gathered that ......Rock Loud !
Great video gents! I'd love to see a follow up to this with Scorpions, AC/DC, Deep Purple, King Crimson and Queen! Completely agree about (Don't Fear) The Reaper, it's OK but it put me off BOC for the longest time, but someone gave me Secret Treaties and it blew my mind, now I love them!
Hi Martin and Pete. Great show and topic. I can only comment on Priest, Sabbath and Zeppelin so here goes. Black Sabbath 1. Warning Judas Priest 1. Beyond the Realms of Death Led Zeppelin 1. In My Time of Dying 2. Lonely is the Word 2. Victim of Changes 2. The Wanton Song 3. Falling off the Edge of the World 3. Rapid Fire 3. Since I 've Been Loving You 4. Hand of Doom 4. The Sentinel 4 Babe I'm Gonna Leave You 5. Lord of This World 5. Let us Prey/Call for the Priest 5. When the Levee Breaks
Def Leppard have had a string of superb deep cuts - Another hit an' run, Stagefright, Die hard the hunter, Comin' under fire, Gods of War, Run Riot, Ring of fire, Tear it down, White lightning, Paper Sun, Pearl of Euphoria, Blood runs cold and so on.
Since I’ve been loving you…is the best song from Zeppelin for me. The studio version is perfection for me. Page’s guitar tone in that song just gets me every time plus his solo is my favorite Page solo. Every aspect ..Vocals, guitar, organ and drums just compliment each other so well with also playing for the benefit and narrative of the song. IMO that studio recording is a piece of art. Love the live version as well but the studio version is as good as it gets.
Here’s my take on it. If it’s a band that I’m not real big on but like some of their stuff, 95% of the time it’s the bands hits. If it’s an album from a band I really dig, I’d say 85% of the time my favorite song from that album will be a deep cut. I think if it’s a band you really like most times there is a song on there that just hits you in a special way that your like “oh hell yea”. Just my take on it. Great show guys
Yeah and some rock bands were mostly known as album bands rather than hit bands and that's the way they promoted their music eg AC/DC and iron maiden were album bands they never focused on having a hit on the radio. Whereas likes of bands like van Halen and kiss were looking for the radio hits. And the likes of whitesnake were hit bands.
Instead of a Greatest Hits album, my entry point into a new band is often a good live album which often include deeper cuts while skipping any studio album filler. But I love live albums and listen to them more than studio albums.
Most live albums end up being de facto greatest hits packages. That's why Pete will often exclude live records from his best of/ranking shows about a given band
Love the show.Just wanted to add that a hit doesn't mean the best.It only means it's easily absorbable,not it's musically rich.MKII Deep Purple's biggest hit is Smoke on the Water (the greatest riff ever),but their best song is Hard Loving Man,probably the first ever speed metal song with great vocals and instrumentation.
Martin’s take on the Who is interesting. The obscure choices aren’t wrong choices. When Moon died, the Who changed. Their catalogue is so deep and diverse it doesn’t matter what era you prefer.
I can't imagine anyone getting into a band, collecting all their albums, and NOT developing more fondness for deep cuts over time. it's like deciding that your favorite pizza topping is mushrooms and never even trying another topping. are tastes not allowed to change and evolve over time?
Sure, if you collect a band's albums then you HAVE TO listen to deep cuts since no band has every single song on every album be a hit. That doesn't necessarily mean that you'll like a given deep cut more than the hit(s) from that album but it does increase the chances...
I love that track too. Interestingly although never played live by the band they reportedly were planning on playing it on their upcoming 1980 North American tour/Oct-Nov 1980 (of course that never happened when Bonham passed on Sept 25)
@@wernermoritz882 I am too but maybe not quite at "Butch level". My Thin Lizzy playlist besides maybe 25 or so TL albums (plus related bands) is about 330 songs deep (Black Star Riders, Brian Robertson solo, John Norum/John Sykes/21 Guns TL covers, Märvel, Pride Tiger, Wild Horses, Lynott solo). "Stop Messin' Around" on Gary Moore's Platinum Collection is a cool track featuring Lynott on bass. It's a fast-paced straight-up Blues rocker...Some TL albums many may not have heard: the 90's compilation Whiskey In The Jar (includes a wonderful live "Dublin") & the live Breaking Out In Chicago from '76 (that one might be an "unofficial" release) - good set list, "Blues Boy" is great
Judas Priest: 1. Victim of Changes 2. Beyond the Realms of Death 3. Dissident Aggressor 4. Heading out to the Highway. 5. Painkiller Black Sabbath: 1. Symptom of the Universe 2. N.I.B 3. Fairies Wear Boots 4. Killing Yourself to Live 5. Into the Void. Led Zeppelin: 1. Achilles Last Stand 2. Babe I'm Gonna Leave You 3. Dancing Days 4. The Rover 5. Friends UFO: 1. Time on my Hands 2. Doctor Doctor 3. Lights Out 4. Rock Bottom 5. Queen of the Deep Uriah Heep: 1. Salisbury 2. The Magicians Birthday 3. Bird of Prey 4. Easy Livin' 5. Look at Yourself
@@stuartsharpe7729 : Yeah, July Morning is also great - excellent pick! - Other Heep songs that I had considered: Stealin' Lady in Black, Gypsy, Spider Woman and I really LOVE Wonderworld. Uriah Heep were a band that my parents were into in the early 70's ( they just had the greatest hits album, and I think they got that because Easy Livin' sounds so much like Deep Purple - way more than it does a Heep tune, IMO ). I conned them into getting " The Magicians Birthday" for my Birthday, based entirely on the fact that I was obsessed with the Roger Dean album cover art in the Columbia House books that were sent out.
As soon as I read the topic I knew that Thin Lizzy would be prominently mentioned. Seems that that's the band where many only know the (still great) radio hits & haven't heard any of the other stuff, of which there's a lot (and most of it really good). One of those bands where their Greatest Hits package will contain many songs that many rock music fans won't recognize, but the band itself was pretty successful overall (less so in the US). Their Jailbreak album was their top seller at about 2 million units - their first two releases didn't do much sales-wise...BTW Martin's quote about that debut album: "drawing mainly from bluesy non-metal influences" and found the compositions "astonishingly well written, very Irish, very heart-felt"
My dozen favorite Led Zeppelin songs: 1. You Shook Me 2. What Is and What Should Never Be 3. Thank You 4. Nobody's Fault But Mine 5. Kashmir 6. Black Dog 7. Immigrant Song 8. Custard Pie 9. The Rain Song 10. In The Evening 11. Trampled Under Foot 12. Dazed and Confused Hear Stairway To Heaven, Rock and Roll and Whole Lotta Love way too much on the radio to even care about hearing them again!!
My favorite UFO songs Timothy Silverbird Queen of the Deep Too Much of Nothing Martian Landscape Electric Phase I Ain't No Baby/ Arbory Hill ( intro bleeds into the song beautifully) Long Gone the Writer Anyway Anyway
Paranoid has massive appeal because It's a relatively simple quick hard rock that does enough to show case what the band has to offer. Ozzy sounds good, Iommi has a catchy riff and guitar solo, Bill Ward does a good job of banging around and Geezer has some catchy bass guitar playing. The lyrics are easy to hear and sin along to to as well. It's what I consider the "Nickle Tour" song of Black Sabbath and for many people is good enough. It's been easy for FM rock stations to mindlessly pump it out over the airwaves to death at 2:48 in length and unfortunately tons of people seem content with just hearing that song. I like the song and do really like the riff that Iommi plays but think it's somewhat short sited as to what the band is actually all about, I'm also sick of hearing Iron Man but at least that does a bit more to highlight the qualities of their song writing, playing and versatility.
Totally agree. Pete as you said many times BOC people buy a ticket and only go to hear Don't Fear The Reaper. Uriah Heep the same only Byrom era strange.
I think Pete hit on something about the driving simplicity of the hits, like Easy Livin’ and Paranoid. The masses love the straight forward beat. I have a lot of faith in individuals, but not in the masses, which tend to be unsophisticated. It doesn’t mean those songs are bad, they’re just so straight forward that the mass appeal is what brought the masses in, people who aren’t intellectual about music and complexity.
Yeah complexity doesn't necessarily equal good or bad. It's just more time & key changes that tend to challenge your ears more than more straightforward music. I think if a song is hummable, or you can whistle the main melody after hearing it, it's got a good chance of becoming "popular" (eg a hit). That doesn't say anything about its quality though. I can hum "God Only Knows" by the Beach Boys, a song I'd say is as good as anything else ever written in pop/rock
Great show guys. Yes, some people are just radio listeners and not album buyers. I saw the same thing at Cheap Trick show here in Australia a few years ago. The crowd suddenly went enthusiastic when Surrender or Dream Police and 2 or 3 other songs were played. But an album track forget about it. This is quite common. I guess there are hardcore fans as well as casual listeners.
I know a lot of other BOC tunes but "Reaper" is still one of my fave tracks. But yeah, it'd be tough I think for someone who just listens to radio hits to for example participate in a discussion site like SoT, other than maybe saying: "wow I have a lot of homework to do..."
My wife and I are the complete opposites in our listening habits. She is the radio hits only listener - she knows nothing else from these bands/artists. I am the full album/catalog listener that definitely appreciates the deep cuts much more than the hits.
Good show gentlemen! I really like this topic guys, I'm a deep track kind of guy myself, some bands I want to hear their hits but more times than not, I'm digging their deeper cuts. My Picks are: AC/DC : KISS: April Wine: Soul Stripper Nothin' To Lose I Can Hear You Callin' Walk All Over You Watchin' You Cat's Claw Next To The Moon Love Her All I Can Hot On The Wheels of Love Squealer Larger Than Life Before The Dawn Overdose Save Your Love Future Tense Ratt: Alice Cooper Band/Solo: Tell The World Black Juju Sweet Cheater Ballad of Dwight Fry U Got It Sick Things In Your Direction Man With The Golden Gun Top Secret Millie and Billie
For favorite bands, deep tracks are often just as enjoyable as the radio hits. But for bands you don’t dig as much, the deep tracks don’t usually impress. For example, I’m not a huge Styx fan...I do like a few of their radio songs but after that it all goes downhill fast. But old Chicago (of whom I love) has a wealth of deep cuts that I never tire of.
I've always been a deep album cut guy. The "hit" process of repeating a song into popular conciousness has always grated on me. Also the fact that today, classic rock radio such a has a HUGE menu of songs to choose from, they shouldn't repeat a song in month, yet... I'm convinced that the royalty structure is set up to be cheaper to repeat songs than to not (hence, hit production). I'm just a product of early unformatted FM radio, I guess. PS - It still smokes me that most people have bought into the idea that commercial success is a true barometer of artistic worth. There, I said it... -MJ
To record companies music's strictly a business not an art form (with rare exceptions) & they sign the checks - unless you self-release your records, which you can now do more easily via the web. So they've always had a big say in what gets promoted & played on commercial radio - at least in any type of steady rotation. Far be it from me to defend them, I think they've largely taken advantage of many artists, but I think that explains much of what you hear on radio. Also radio stations starting in the late 70's began using "programming" services that developed play lists automatically, cutting live radio dj's out of the mix. To me some of the web algorithms behind services like Pandora, iHeartRadio, Spotify etc that determine what gets displayed on home pages, how "related song lists" are built, how virtual radio stations are programmed etc are just updated versions of this
Btw, "D'Yer Maker" is actually pronounced like the island nation "Jamaica". The title references an old UK joke in which two guys are talking in a pub, and one asks the other where his wife is, to which he responds "She's on vacation" (actually the Brits would say "on holiday"). The other guy replies by asking "Jamaica?" (as in "Did she go to Jamaica?"), to which the other responds "No, I didn't make her go". It's making fun of the British lower class "Cockney" accent, in which the question "Did you make her?" (phonetically spelled of course famously as "d'yer maker?"; yes I know the 'phonetic' spelling isn't particularly phonetic, at least not on this side of the pond) sounds like "Jamaica?" There's a sexual innuendo there too of course, and it also is referencing the song's reggae influence (hence the punny nod to Jamaica), but that's the story behind the title of that song.
Excellent show I can relate to a lot that you both said. When I ranked albums I have comments like " you ranked my favourite last, so I switched off" or the other is why wasn't their most successful your top one your mad or words to that affect
A&R guys like John Kalodner played a huge role in the career trajectory of a lot of artists. If Kalodner didn’t like what he was hearing,it was back to the drawing board.
With Priest my favorite song has always been Island of Domination and I would say Killing Machine, Here Come The Tears & Savage are easily in the Top 8 To throw in Blue Oyster Cult to mix they are poster child of discussion. They might have some of the best deep cuts of any hard rock/metal band. At smaller venues which tends to draw the devoted fan base the audience goes nuts for Dominance & Submission and ETI more so than say Godzilla.
Great show guys! I haven't been collecting albums for a long time, but I am aware that there are people out there that only know the hits and don't even bother to check out anything else from their so-called favorite bands. I don't have my top five Black Sabbath songs set in stone. But I got into the early Ozzy albums recently, and I'm loving "Supernaut," "Snnowblind," "Hole in the Sky," "Thrill of It All," and "Killing Yourself to Live." I purposely avoid 'Paranoid' because I never need to hear "War Pigs," "Iron Man," and the title track ever again!
Judas Priest: Victims of Changes/ Exciter/ Desert Plains/ You Don't Have to be Old to be Wise/ Sinner Black Sabbath: The Writ/ War Pigs/ Wheels of Confusion/ Into the Void/ Megalomania LZ: Achille's Last Stand/ In the Light/ Thank You/ The Song Remains the Same-Rain Song/ In the Evening UFO: Only You can Rock Me/ The Writer/ Lights Out/ This Kid's/ Too Handle to Handle (not a big fan of UFO) Uriah Heep: Bird of Prey/ The Park/ The Wizard/ Rainbow Demon/ Fools That was a very good show, sirs! Cheers.
Most of the time when it's a band I only like the hits its because I'm not really a big fan of the band, but have a fond love for those hit songs. For me, it's never a lack of trying because I am a collector so If I like even one song from a band I will buy basically their entire catalog because I find myself desperately wanting to add more songs to my giant list of songs I already love. On the other side of things bands, I love all the deep cuts on are bands I love, and while I still usually like the hits it's more so because of Nostalgia. Because that was my gateway into the band so without those hits, I would have never bought the album which led me to the other tracks. Over time on bands I love the hits make their way down the list because they become less interesting, and I find myself wanting to find more and more songs to like because I already have a long list of bands I only like the hits from. As a music lover, I want an endless number of songs I love so I want to find bands that you just love all these deep cuts, and sometimes it works out that way, and sometimes it doesn't and they become a hits band for me.
Exactly, I also research a band's discography when I come across something by them that I like (hit or deep cut, doesn't matter). And yes over time if there's overexposure of certain songs they move to the bottom of the playlist, or get skipped next time they come up. Unfortunately one can't do that with traditional radio
"The Crunge" & "D'yer Mak'er" (Zep's best "reggae" number - a single in the US but not in the UK)...BTW there are supposedly 19 album tracks that Zep never played live & that latter one is one of 'em, "I'm Gonna Crawl" is another one
I know all these songs. The Ocean is my top ten of favorite Zeppelin songs. I'm fond of The Rover. I've been listening to Physical Graffiti for the past couple of weeks. That's the Way isn't a favorite, but I don't hate it. I'm Gonna Crawl and The Song Remains the Same are good songs but not favorites either.
Just Priest- I Would say everything on Unleashed in the East are my favorites and UFO the same with Strangers in The Night, which pictures most of the hits.
Great subject and show. I'm with you that most of the times with bands I love it's not the singles however (and this could potentially be a show one day) there's been a few times when I've seen the band live and heard the single and then I realised what all the fuss was about. It wasn't until I heard it live that the power of the track became apparent to me. An example is A Design For Life by Manic Street Preachers - their most popular song wouldn't make my top 30 of their music but when I went to the concert for the first time I was really affected by it in a way I had never been on record.
Maybe seeing/hearing others' reaction to those hits also swayed your opinion? I think that can happen for example in movie theaters when there's a strong audience reaction to a movie's scenes that you maybe wouldn't personally have watching that same move alone at home (on a small screen). I think experiencing something live with others will always be more visceral
@@wolf1977 Yeah that’s a fair suggestion and it leads to further discussion about what a song is designed for? Traditionally they were made to play to packed rooms and to make people dance, definitely a social experience. Throughout rock history and the recording industry that’s probably changed where sometimes they’re built for one person with headphones. But with regards to the first point, I’d suggest that a song especially a rock song isn’t complete until it’s performed in front of an audience and so how it reacts and what it adds is part of the song and it’s affect.
@@darrendohertymusic But then you have bands like The Beatles (didn't tour at all for 5 years), Steely Dan (stopped touring for a while) & Elvis (no live shows for like 8 years in the 60's) that are able to get the music across w/o playing the songs live - and at the same time sell albums & get lots of airplay
I just tried to rank all Deep Purple songs (my fav band). I made it to the 1968-1975 albums and realised it was kind of impossible to do and maybe pointless. There are so many songs I like equally. So many songs that could/ should make my Top 10 or 20 and I realised that even though I really love the Morse era, none of the songs would make the Top 30 which is kind of none sense when I think about it deeper (no pun). My Top 10 ended up being: Burn, Flight of the Rat, Rat Bat Blue, Lay Down Stay Down, Fools, You Fool No One, Highway Star, Soldier of Fortune, Pictures of Home, Stormbringer. Smoke on the Water ended up @ 64, Black Night @ 73 and Child in Time @ 33. It's hard enough to rank the albums! Cheers.
My favorite Blue Oyster Cult songs Workshop of the 🔭 Telescopes Teen Archer Dominance and Submission Tattoo Vampire Nosferatu the Vigil Monsters Joan Crawford Take Me Away
This is a one for Pete and Martin. Pick a Deep Purple compilation album, of 10 songs, don't include the famous songs or hits, but you can only use the 4 Mk2 albums. 👍
I'm in let's see Lazy, Child in Time, Demon's Eye, ; Hard Lovin" Man Strange Kind ... When a Blind man Cries, Smooth Dancer , Flight of the Rat, Rat Bat Blue, Freedom Including the other MkII albums would change that list
Pete feels about Doctor Doctor the way I've always felt about Kasmir - just don't like it, never have. I'd put Tea For One in for Zeppelin. I appreciate Martin's love for the Chapman era UFO albums. One of my all-time favorites from that era is Profession Of Violence. We Belong To The Night was a great set opener on the Mechanix tour. Priest, I'd go Solar Angels (again the set opener on that tour). Heep, how about Sell Your Soul from Abominog (how's that for Contrarian). For Sabbath - The Writ has always been my favorite song by them. Cheers Gentlemen!
...actually, I like "Doctor Doctor"...:0)...but don't get me started on "Kashmir"...I just don't get, and understand the appeal that that song has...it goes absolutely nowhere for 9+ minutes...
@@wolf1977 Very true, although sometimes there's no hunting required, when listening to an album you'll be instantly engrossed by a track that will become seared in your mind that becomes a personal favourite for life an example for me being March of the black queen from Queen 2.
@@andrewcarr5923 But you first had to be interested enough to buy the album, in order to then hear the deep track. Many don't take the step to find out what album contains the hit song they just heard & liked
Thin Lizzy love Cold Seat, Rosalie, Whiskey in a Jar and The Boys are Back in town. You could also say the same about people who go on about deep cuts you like what you like 👍
Like you two, there are sooooooo many songs that I like, but I have heard so many times that I don't need to hear them ever again. You Shook Me All Night Long, Tom Sawyer, Jump, Free Bird, Sweet Emotion, Legs, Take It Easy, etc. Give me Whole Lotta Rosie, The Garden, Atomic Punk, Gimme Three Steps, Same Old Song and Dance, Nasty Dogs and Funky Kings, Those Shoes, etc.
All first 3 tracks on The Joshua Tree. Bad is my favourite U2 and both Pride and Promenade. We could probably say the same for all of the tracks on Under A Blood Red Sky, but especially Sunday Bloody Sunday > The Electric Co > New Year’s day > 40.
Great topic. Judas Priest: Victim of Changes, Electric Eye, Delivering The Goods, Metal Gods, Savage Black Sabbath: Into The Void, Hole In The Sky, Supernaut, Killing Yourself To Live, Glory Ride Led Zeppelin: Black Dog, How Many More Times, The Rover, Since I've Been Loving You, Kashmir UFO: Natural Thing, Love To Love, Makin' Moves, Dreaming, Give Her The Gun Uriah Heep: Seven Stars, Suicidal Man, Pilgram, Easy Livin', The Easy Road Possible New Topic: Favorite Bands Or Albums found in a "Bargain Bin"
A fascinating discussion, one of your best. I would say a sub genre built on hits, or at least radio singles and videos on heavy rotation on scuzz and kerrang etc... is nu-metal. Generally, I would argue they were songs built around 1 big chord driven riff and a big chorus and written for airplay. The hits/singles were generally the best songs and VERY indicative of the sound of the album. I recall buying Sinner by Drowning Pool because I loved the song Bodies...it was the 1st track on the album but it was all downhill after because it was 1 song written 10 times. Bands such as Papa Roach, Ill Nino, Pist-On, Spineshank, Dry Kill Logic among others all had strong singles but the albums had little in the way of depth or variety which was absolutely fine because they usually delivered on the one thing they were going for. I know nu-metal is usually a swear word on this channel but I liked some of it and I think, for the most part, the hits were the best songs.
This is a great topic, the deep cuts are sometimes the better songs. My top 5 Priest songs would be and I know this might be controversial but I love Cathedral Spires from Jugulator, Desert Plains, The Sentinel, Riding On The Wind & Beyond the Realms of Death. Honorable mention is Ram It Down
Martin, speaking of Friends have you noticed Chris Squire including the string section in his bass solo on The Fish from Yessongs? As far as I know he only did this on that album.
Any concert I miss - my first question " what deep cuts did they play?". I could care less about the hits. Rock radio has killed them for me. I just NOW started listening to the 1st Boston album again after 20 radioless years. Radio had killed that whole album for me, but now that I don't listen to radio, I'm liking that album again
To me.... the "hits" are usually feel good songs & laden with hooks & lots of melody;in the expansive rock genre's. I've usually levitated to the "deep cuts" because I'm a musician & since the early eighties -music in general was & is an escape/passion/outlet. That's not the case with casual music listeners or the younger generations who grew up & never had the time to consider music as an "album" experience. + What's going on(moments of importance),in your life @ that time can elevate a track into the soundtrack of a person's life. Songs like that; that resonate for me: BAD CO. -The Way I Choose, KANSAS - Just about anything from Audio Visions, J. PRIEST - Desert Plains, ZEPPELIN - Bring It On Home, and the criminally under-rated Unforgiven album by M. SCHENKER! .... Just to name a few.
mine is UFO, 5-Oh My, 4-Reasons Love, 3-Lights out, 2-Ain't no baby, 1-Love lost Love, for Rush 5-A Farewell to Kings, 4-Cygnus X-1 Book II: Hemispheres, 3-Entre Nous, 2-The Analog Kid, 1-The Camera Eye for Scorpions 5-In Trance, 4-Another Piece of Meat, 3-Animal Magnetism, 2-Hot and Cold, 1-Arizona
The thing here is we are in a community of music lovers so we know entire discography's of bands and love deep cuts all over the place. John Q public doesn't care they like what they've heard on the radio or in some other form and thats all they need to know. they aren't "wrong" its just not important to them as it is to us. In conclusion it's inconceivable to us to not know other tracks but to them simply not important.
Exactly! I'd just say that it's totally believable to me that many would only choose to hear the hits, why not? It's easy. Easy works. Researching entire discographies & finding deep tracks is hard - well at least harder. Easy wins most of the time. Easy isn't "wrong", it's just...easy. As in path of least resistance
These are some of my favorites and/or the best songs in my opinion as of today. This is all about me (ha-ha), but also about you and your picks. They're supposed to be different: Black Sabbath: 1. The Sign of The Southern Cross 2. Sabbath, Bloody Sabbath 3. Heaven and Hell 4. A National Acrobat 5. Lord of This World Thin Lizzy: 1. The Holy War 2. Emerald 3. Massacre 4. Black Rose 5. Cold Sweat Blue Oyster Cult: 1. Astronomy 2. Veteran of The Psychic Wars 3. In The Presence of Another World 4. Monsters 5. Hot Rails to Hell Scorpions: 1. The Sails of Charon 2. Drifting Sun 3. We'll Burn The Sky 4. Crying Days 5. Top of The Bill Judas Priest: 1. Victim of Changes 2. The Sentinel 3. Painkiller 4. Electric Eye 5. Beyond The Realms of Death Iron Maiden: 1. Powerslave 2. Hallowed Be Thy Name 3. Phantom of The Opera 4. Hell On Earth 5. Dance of Death
To summarise (for me), simpler catchier songs (usually singles) are easy to get into, but are also very easy to get bored with. Conversely, longer or more complex songs having far more depth to them take repeated listening before their charms are fully revealed and appreciated. That's why they're the songs which have a long lasting appeal. And that's the tragedy of most music radio, with very few exceptions they only play singles.
Also more complex songs tend to take more time to develop & the "classic" radio hit is your 3 minute song (maybe longer sometimes but almost always less than 5 minutes - even if the original version has to be edited or cut down). So longer songs not played a lot on radio become "deep tracks"
Interesting & enjoyable show. I’m one of those who often likes the singles best, not always hits tho’ eg: Touch Too Much. Quite often I bought the album & liked the song before the song became a hit eg: Mr Blue Sky. Sometimes the hits were my 1st introduction to a band (Killer Queen). Also songs considered hits were not actually hits at the time eg: Thunderstruck & Don’t Stop Me Now. I also wonder whether what are considered hits in the UK is different to the US. Aerosmith & Kiss spring to mind, as their 70s albums never had any hits over here.
@@parishofrock2963 Early 80's or later? Hate to think that no one caught on until Permanent Vacation...Actually if you missed the boat on the band in the 70's then (at least to me) there wasn't that much to like from Night In The Ruts through Done With Mirrors, and to me I don't love Draw the Line as much as many do
The thing about people insisting you like the same songs/artists that THEY do (which I do constantly-especially when it comes to Zeppelin!) comes down to passion, music hits us deep and essentially is spiritual, and goes right to the soul. I often want other music fans to hear EVERYTHING just like I do-to have that bond in
It can also be dangerous to just live within your own bubble, only hearing what you already like or know. It's good to be open to others' opinions...BTW my fave Zep album (besides the double Physical Graffiti just because it's go more) is In Through The Out Door - I may have just set you off...🤷♂
@@wolf1977 true that, Wolf, but I own over 6 thousand c.d.'s that cover everything from ABBA, Merle Haggard, D'Angelo, Joni Mitchell, Enya to John Mellencamp, Bruce Springsteen, Neil Young to Slayer, Meshuggah, Opeth, Iron Maiden to Public Enemy, Sugarhill Gang....my ears are WIDE OPEN to ALL good music! If I had my own radio station - a lot of folks would be tuned in constantly, and very happy! Absolutely love In Through The Out Door - so creative and melodic, every song crackles with inventive licks and some killer keyboards on the album (John Paul Jones - stud musician!). What stuff do you like that would surprise your friends and family? Cheers, Treff
@@treff9226 I love fusion (especially 70's) & not many people I know are into that. Also 70's rock (especially the lesser known bands/albums of which I own A TON). I don't buy physical media any longer, everything I have is now digital (mp3's) - I just hit 17,000 albums. What I did years ago is rip everything I owned on LP's & cd's & then sorted through it to just keep the songs I liked, then built a music database from that. From that point on I bought music online a la carte (via download) & it's pretty rare when I like/buy every single song on a given album. So when I say 17k albums, that's not every song on them but rather only the tracks I like (63k total tracks & counting)
@@wolf1977 cool - that's a lot of music! So much great hard rock in the 70's, and much of it kind of obscure, so you gotta dig for it. I could never give up my PHYSICAL albums and don't like the highly compressed sound of mp3's. That said, I do download stuff from itunes from bands that only have specific gems on their albums, and surround them with spotty tuneage. It's a blast making compilation lists with NO aural turds, no songs that ruin the flow! You put a helluva lot of time into trimming the fat from your collection - life is short, only keep the ear candy! Current listening: Buckcherry, Exhorder, King's X, Guthrie Govan, Queen, The Weeknd, John Mayer. Be well!
@@treff9226 Just listened to the new King's X recently (it was OK) & last year's Aristocrats (Freeze! Live In Europe 2020)...Other new/recent listens for me: The Reputations, Don Mancuso, Cat Mother And The All-Night Newsboys, Les Dudek, Lonely Robot, Poseidon, Alan Hewitt & One Nation, Eric Johnson's new one: The Book Of Making/Yesterday Meets Today, Project Z
giving my 5 choices for 4 out of the 5 bands mentioned here...I"m leaving Uriah Heep out because, while I like them a lot, I'm not as intimately familiar with their catalog as I'd like to be...so, Priest: Rapid Fire, Rock Forever, Freewheel Burning, Bloodstone & Victim Of Changes...Sabbath: Supernaut, Symptom Of The Universe, Spiral Architect, A Bit Of Finger / Sleeping Village / Warning, & Megalomania...Zeppelin: Out On The Tiles, When The Levee Breaks, The Rover, Trampled Underfoot & Achilles Last Stand...UFO: Mother Mary, Natural Thing, Hot 'n Ready, Love To Love & Only You Can Rock Me...for "round 2" of this, may I suggest Foghat, Thin Lizzy, Nazareth, Kiss & Styx as the bands?...:0)
An interesting discussion on this topic . The album that I'm going to use is outside the genre that you were discussing , but is an apt example I think . The first album that I thought of was Billy Joel's The Stranger . It seemed like every other song on that album was pushed as a single , and a lot of those hit songs appear regularly on top 10 lists . Yet , by far , my favourite song on that album is Vienna . You won't find it on any of his hits compilations ( that I'm aware of ) , and nobody ever talks about it . Interestingly enough , I recently saw a UA-cam video where an Interviewer asked Billy Joel to name his 5 favourite songs from his own catalog . Vienna was one of them . Anyway , a great discussion gentlemen, Thanks !
I used to think that "the hits" were the sell-out songs. And now I realize that the people who choose those songs knew what they were doing. There's music that connects with the public for a reason. Catchiness, memorable melodies, great grooves, sections that people will sing along to the big hook. That's an art. And in some ways, it is the best stuff. Not always. But often.
Well record execs typically decide which songs on an album get released as singles (after all they sign the checks). Also back in the day the single was THE main way to promote individual songs, before AOR & classic rock radio got going. So to me some of those hits aren't "sell-outs" because they became popular, they're sell-outs because of the actual music (perhaps it's not indicative of that band's sound but clearly plays to current trends). Which gets back to why certain music is popular in the first place, as you say why it connects with the public. Some bands purposely mine current music trends to sell albums & singles (The Stones were great at that), so calling something a sell-out means you're making negative assumptions about a group's intent & that's kinda tough to do without having been there. Sometimes they come out & tell you, usually they don't. Now I was one of those who basically thought that anything popular was automatically a sell-out but that was a long time ago...
Pete, what about Wanton Song by Led Zeppelin? That’s a heavy tune and one that hasn’t been overplayed. I know you brought it up briefly. Im just surprised that’s not top 10 for you . I think it’s probably my favorite
That one is in my personal Top 10. I did hear it frequently on the radio growing up, though (along with a ridiculous load of other Zeppelin tracks.) On one such occasion, the song ended, and a memory that'll always stick with me is hearing the DJ utter (paraphrasing), "Everytime I hear that ending scream, it sounds like Robert Plant is using the bathroom, but is severely constipated." 😂 That's a true story! Either way, "The Wanton Song" was always one of my top faves.
I love Wanton Song, but I always thought that chorus had a jazzy, bossa nova feel to it... Like Martin's comment on The Rover, "is it really though"? I'd say Good Times Bad Times was kind of pounding for its time, and Communication Breakdown kind of has that classic metal single not picking... I always assumed Wanton Song was more in people's "weird" song category, like The Crunge.
@@gabriellarrubia1006 The jazzy, ascending part of The Wanton Song (played twice) is my favorite thing about it (Cool of you to mention that.) Killer riffing on the verses, of course (and not to forget Jones and Bonham), but the walk down concluding the verses, followed by the section of ascending jazzy chords? SO hot! Interesting that you mention The Crunge - it takes quite a beating from most fans (and I understand why), but there are some cool things going on in that track, musically-speaking (e.g. Alternating time signatures, 9th chords.)
@@knightvisioniixv Yeah some are better than others, but when Zeppelin used to get experimental with these tracks it always resulted in something interesting. I always thought these tracks kept Houses of the Holy and Physical Graffiti well paced. People hate Lemon Song too, but hey- Jimmy puts on a show on that track. Luckily they were smart enough to let the variety work in their favor and not release a "disco album" one year and a "funk album" in the next. Although I wouldn't have been opposed to something like an Eddie Hazel album from Jimmy- he had the right chops to make it sound right, just a twangy tone to pull it off...
As music lovers we tend to forget that most people are not as passionate as we are about music, so most casual listeners do not feel the need, perhaps don't even think about going beyond the hit they heard and check out the full album of the artist. It seems many young people discovered Kate Bush because of Stranger Things, but how many of them probably only listened to Running Up That Hill and didn't go further in her discography ?
And that's neither good or bad, how much music means to you, the role it has in your life is very personal and unique.
That’s exactly what it is
Yes music is subjective, just like art, so it's always gonna be a personal experience. That's why many of these "best" arguments as applied to music are meaningless when you really think about it - best to whom?
You're right, the time invested for me to discover every band I enjoy was thousands of hours. Granted- there are people who waste just about the same amount of time messing around and being non-productive, but you can't assume that people working 2 jobs, raising kids or just dividing their free time between other activities should know every single thing. It's only cool to music shame someone if they're absolutely being obnoxious and disrespectful. In that case I approve of cyber bullying lol
@@gabriellarrubia1006
Exactly. To get to know a band's discography takes time, even more time to get to know a whole unknown genre of music. And time ? Well, most people do not have that much unfortunately. Same things could be said about cinema, painting, literature, history etc. Appreciating an art or a subject is great but we should not forget that it is far from easy, that it takes lots of dedication and perseverance, to hopefully, ending up being passionate and fascinated by what we discovered, to perhaps going even further.
@@alternativepreacher4516 Excellent comments. Time is an important factor when it comes to appreciating music (same with literature, films, etc.) As such, I'm very selective with things I give my attention to (especially these days), mainly because I'm the type that loves to spend time digesting a piece of work, and getting to know it well (same for books, films, etc.) Couple that with my interest in countless genres, and it becomes even more complicated. There are all kinds of interesting things coming from all corners of the globe (and from countless points in time), and it is simply impossible to hear everything (much less digest it.) As listeners/consumers, sometimes we have to make a conscious effort to draw the line somewhere, and recognize that it is perfectly fine to do so; Nothing wrong with slowing one's pace when it comes to buying/listening. It's like having an occasional glass of wine - I am going to sip it slowly, and savor every drop; Can't quite enjoy it if I gulp it down in a minute. I spend some months listening to an album (or rotate between two different ones) before moving on to something else. Of course, this process varies from individual to individual (most listeners probably move at a much faster pace.)
I like the idea of a show about “uncoverable” songs. Great video as always, guys!
No one ever talks about Out on the tiles. Such a heavy main riff.
That's my second favorite track from III, and it also makes my Top 10 from Zeppelin. Fantastic track, all-around!
That loud, angry guitar by Jimmy Page in the middle section of "Carouselambra" is still one of Zep's best musical moments! Damn does that guitar tone sound great.
Their 2nd longest ever studio track & never played live. I love it too - In Through The Out Door is one of my fave Zep albums
The whole album is underrated. Carouselambra is a top 10 Zep song.
@@wolf1977 True Led Zeppelin never played it live, but Plant and Page played it live in Madrid, Spain in 1995.
The guitar solo is pretty good, but I can't understand what words Plant is singing- can you ?
@@phillipanderson7398 Interesting don't have that...Actually I might be mistaken (kind of), just found on YT a video of Zep playing it live in 1980 (Victoria Theatre, London, UK May 1980). Actually not really "live" in the traditional sense, it's really a rough mix of a studio take of the song (about 2 mins shorter than the final version)...I've read that Zep had "Carouselambra" on their proposed setlist of their Fall 1980 North American tour (which of course never happened due to Bonham's passing)
Great discussion thanks for posting guys!
I was beyond happy to hear Martin list Carouselambra in his top 5. I have received so much grief from fellow Zep fans for loving that song.
I've listened to that one the other night and boy, was I in tears (happy tears that is!!) John Paul's arrangements with the synths even toward the third act are priceless.
oh man .me too .....F... 'em
it IS a great song...not in my top 5, but definitely in my top 10...I had to leave "No Quarter" and "Over The Hills & Far Away" out of my top 5 as well, so Zep was a tough one...
Really enjoyed this episode, great hearing you 2 express your views on some great bands. Thanks Pete and Martin!
I have read several interviews over the years where the artists say they would have preferred a different song be a single than the ones became the hits. Personally the deep tracks often go high up my top song lists and doing rankings of deep cuts only is often a lot of fun for me. Great topic gents!
I've always believed that just because something is more popular does not necessarily mean it's the best. I've gotten where I prefer the deep cuts more than the popular hits. At least they're deep cuts to me.
The other side of this is quotes from artists where they say they never thought that single 'x' would be a hit but then it was. Record execs generally pick the songs from albums to be released (pushed) as singles & they're guessing (excluding self-released albums). If you sign the checks then you get to pick. There is a formula that gets applied to popular music as well that probably gets frequently used as a guide when picking them. Sometimes it works & sometimes it doesn't. To me the thing about deep tracks is that they appeal to me because I don't hear 'em all the time, but that's a "self-fulfilling prophecy" in a way because that by definition is what makes the deep tracks "deep" in the first place
@@j.woodbury412 Of course that's true (for example I have a playlist called "Unknown 70's Rock" with over 5,000 really good tracks, and that's just 70's rock - without any prog/fusion - no "hits").
There's another side to this, which are the songs that became very popular without ever being actual "singles". Going back far enough, the single was the way to promote individual songs (with or without an album). So this third category of songs are the popular tunes (and therefore not "deep cuts") that were never singles/hits as such but in the album era were spotlighted & played enough to become popular without that singles machine pushing them. AOR radio had a lot to do with that, also "classic rock" stations.
Great example: "Stairway To Heaven", arguably THE Led Zep track known to everyone but never released as a single. Also one of their best. So not a "hit" per se but also certainly not a deep cut. Others: "Here Comes The Sun", "LA Woman", “Space Truckin", “YYZ”...Maybe another SoT show topic...?🤷♂
@@wolf1977 I think that sounds like a very good idea for a SoT show topic. And what you said is very true. I wonder how many other "popular" songs were never released as singles.
I don't know what the weather is like here.....I no longer go outside thanks to essential viewing like this channel! Big thanks, Pete and Martin! Great bands albums NEED to be listener to TOP TO BOTTOM, as they were intended to be!
I absolutely love these discussions! Thanks, Pete and Martin for this wonderful video!
Like many other comments, I agree that it depends on how much that person is invested in music. There are the folks who like music and those like us who are music fans. I know a lot of people who like the "hits playlist" from Spotify but don't even know the band/artist names. They just go with whatever is playing, not paying attention to the artist. And, in a very weird way, I think it's fine. Because, in the end, they are listening to music and getting exposed to our beloved art form. From time to time, one of those folks is open to digging a little deeper into a specific artist. And, if I'm there to help, I'll do my best to support them and expand their horizons. :)
I agree, listening to music is a personal experience so whatever works for a given individual is OK. I didn't used to think that when I was (a lot) younger...😎
Achille’s Last Stand is in my top 5 Led Zeppelin songs.
One of tye only Zep songs I like
Top 5 for me definitely as well, I love the classics and the underrated gems of them.
Pete and Martin, another great episode, the 2 of you discussing music is the best of its kind on the net!
Some hits I love, some I hate, it depends on the song. In concert, I do tend to want to hear the deeper cuts
...I have a friend who is "the hits, and nothing but the hits"...pisses me off. Went to see BOC with Foghat a few years back...he knew only 1 of the BOC songs...and a handful of the Foghat songs...he likes "tribute" bands, so we went to see 2 different Zeppelin tribute bands....one played "the usual suspects," and the other did a whole host of "deep cuts." Both were really good, but he was extraordinarily pissed-off about the "deep cut" version...I try to get him to appreciate other things (new and old bands alike), but due to the crappy local FM radio stations we had (and STILL have, I'm afraid) I fear that there will be little luck changing his mind, since he is of the mind that "the only songs worth listening to are the ones on the radio"...AAARRRGGGHHH!!!
You guys are the best! Thank you for these conversations.
Great show fellas. You can definitely do a part 2.
Talking hits, a good topic would be:"Overlooked gems - songs that should be hits - or at least get classsic status". For instance, I always thought Maiden's "Prodigal Son" should get that classic song status (not a hit, but the same classic status that The Prisoner has). Another song that should receive classic status is "I love her all I can" by Kiss (not a hit, but that classic status like "Parasite" has). And then, there are those songs that should be hits - like AC/DC's "Touch too Much"
Agreed. I would mention Is this Happening by Blackmores night, why isn't THAT a hit.
That's an odd choice. The first time I ever heard Iron Maiden - Killers I honestly thought that I accidentally switched my stereo to Radio when Prodigal Son started playing. It definitely was the most Radio friendly Song in Iron Maiden's career. There were similar hits by Bad Company and Head East
@@thomassblaquelourde9298 what about Looking for Today by Black Sabbath?
If I like a song or songs, I like it, regardless if it was a hit or not. Some times I disliked the hit but love the album.
Example is Molly Hatchet - Flirtin' With Disaster .... Whiskey Man favorite song down to least favorite song is the title cut.
I'm an independent, and I don't like someone trying to tell me what to like.
One thing to do up front is define what is meant by "a hit". In olden days I think it referenced a song released as a single that became popular (and sold well), the broader definition being anything "broadly popular or well-known". With the age of LP's also came songs that might be called "hits" but were never singles. How to classify a track like Led Zep's "Stairway"? Everyone knows it & played to death on radio but never a single. Definitely not a "deep track". It does meet the broader definition. Do we also factor in # of online streams & radio play?
I love the T-Shirts Pete wears each episode.
I really enjoyed this one - You could get another 2 to 3 additional shows on this subject alone.
Please, PLEASE consider a few more shows on this topic for the funhouse.
You could go with : RUSH, The Doors, The Stooges, King Crimson, Van Halen, Pink Floyd, Kate Bush, Motorhead, Rainbow, Dio, Ozzy, Iron Maiden, The Kinks, Genesis, The Rolling Stones, The Scorpions, Yes, The Beatles , Frank Zappa , Neil Young, Darkthrone, Venom, Max Webster, Voivod, Death, Slayer, Deep Purple, The Who, Big Star - so many great bands and artists to choose from.
Martin faked me out - I thought you were going to do Thin Lizzy today, and my mind was racing trying to think of my top 5 Lizzy songs ( it doesn't help that I'm having a Lizzy-listening-fest at the moment) .
I think they could do a full hour show on picking their own hits from each of these bands! And starting with Thin Lizzy, because yes, Martin faked me out too.
Cool you mentioned BIG STAR - have to be as undervalued as any other band in history! First two albums are FLAWLESS!
@@goopah : I thought The Who was also going to make an appearance!
@@treff9226 : They're stunning albums! I often wonder how much Alex Chilton influenced the early Cramps sound in studio - obviously they had a unique style going into recording their first album, I just wonder how involved Chilton was in the weaving of Bryan Gregory and Poison Ivy's guitars - because they're really two very disparate guitar sounds there, and yet, they seamlessly mix together. "Gravest Hits", and "Songs The Lord Taught Us" are my favourite Cramps recordings, and Chilton produced both of them.
@@shaunasteele8838 If you like Big Star & don't know about Van Duren yet then check him out! Ran in the same circles & actually tried out for Big Star at one point. He actually has even more good music than BS, right along the same lines. At least 5 great albums
Both Ozzy and Tony were on stage together in Birmingham on 8 August (3 weeks ago) closing the Commonwealth Games Closing Ceremony at the Alexander Stadium. Tommy Clufetos on drums and Adam Wakeman (son of Rick) on bass, both will be known to Sabbath and Ozzie fans. They played Paranoid of course!!! For those in UK, it’s still available on BBC iPlayer.
Pete the difference is people who LOVE music go deep. People who only LIKE music listen to just hits.
....This is yet another killer topic ! ...Thanx Pete Thanx Martin ....I've been a Gold Miner since the early 70's with Bands and certainly the deep cuts as well ....If you love the band and spin the albums into the night 🌙..its tough not to strike Gold ! .....Love the Show ...but then you probably gathered that ......Rock Loud !
Great video gents! I'd love to see a follow up to this with Scorpions, AC/DC, Deep Purple, King Crimson and Queen! Completely agree about (Don't Fear) The Reaper, it's OK but it put me off BOC for the longest time, but someone gave me Secret Treaties and it blew my mind, now I love them!
If you like Secret Treaties
Please check out Tyranny and Mutation
Hi Martin and Pete. Great show and topic. I can only comment on Priest, Sabbath and Zeppelin so here goes.
Black Sabbath 1. Warning Judas Priest 1. Beyond the Realms of Death Led Zeppelin 1. In My Time of Dying
2. Lonely is the Word 2. Victim of Changes 2. The Wanton Song
3. Falling off the Edge of the World 3. Rapid Fire 3. Since I 've Been Loving You
4. Hand of Doom 4. The Sentinel 4 Babe I'm Gonna Leave You
5. Lord of This World 5. Let us Prey/Call for the Priest 5. When the Levee Breaks
I'm w/you on When the Levee Breaks. Favorite Zeppelin song hands down! The Wanton Song is another favorite of mine as well.
great show...great topic
Def Leppard have had a string of superb deep cuts - Another hit an' run, Stagefright, Die hard the hunter, Comin' under fire, Gods of War, Run Riot, Ring of fire, Tear it down, White lightning, Paper Sun, Pearl of Euphoria, Blood runs cold and so on.
I think paper sun is considered a hit because it was a single. And I remember it being played on the radio
You’ve picked most of my favourite Leppard songs there 👍
Since I’ve been loving you…is the best song from Zeppelin for me. The studio version is perfection for me. Page’s guitar tone in that song just gets me every time plus his solo is my favorite Page solo. Every aspect ..Vocals, guitar, organ and drums just compliment each other so well with also playing for the benefit and narrative of the song. IMO that studio recording is a piece of art. Love the live version as well but the studio version is as good as it gets.
Also my favorite followed by Fool in the Rain
Here’s my take on it. If it’s a band that I’m not real big on but like some of their stuff, 95% of the time it’s the bands hits. If it’s an album from a band I really dig, I’d say 85% of the time my favorite song from that album will be a deep cut. I think if it’s a band you really like most times there is a song on there that just hits you in a special way that your like “oh hell yea”. Just my take on it. Great show guys
I feel the exact same way
Yeah and some rock bands were mostly known as album bands rather than hit bands and that's the way they promoted their music eg AC/DC and iron maiden were album bands they never focused on having a hit on the radio. Whereas likes of bands like van Halen and kiss were looking for the radio hits. And the likes of whitesnake were hit bands.
Agree 💯
Instead of a Greatest Hits album, my entry point into a new band is often a good live album which often include deeper cuts while skipping any studio album filler. But I love live albums and listen to them more than studio albums.
Most live albums end up being de facto greatest hits packages. That's why Pete will often exclude live records from his best of/ranking shows about a given band
Love the show.Just wanted to add that a hit doesn't mean the best.It only means it's easily absorbable,not it's musically rich.MKII Deep Purple's biggest hit is Smoke on the Water (the greatest riff ever),but their best song is Hard Loving Man,probably the first ever speed metal song with great vocals and instrumentation.
Martin’s take on the Who is interesting. The obscure choices aren’t wrong choices. When Moon died, the Who changed. Their catalogue is so deep and diverse it doesn’t matter what era you prefer.
For me '64 - '78 is obviously prime Who but I think there's some worthwhile tracks from the later years and they could often still bring it live.
I tried being diverse, but my top 5 are all from Who's Next. Pound for pound every song just offers more
I can't imagine anyone getting into a band, collecting all their albums, and NOT developing more fondness for deep cuts over time. it's like deciding that your favorite pizza topping is mushrooms and never even trying another topping. are tastes not allowed to change and evolve over time?
Very good point. It's like going to a restaurant and always ordering the same item every time, instead of trying something different once in a while.
Sure, if you collect a band's albums then you HAVE TO listen to deep cuts since no band has every single song on every album be a hit. That doesn't necessarily mean that you'll like a given deep cut more than the hit(s) from that album but it does increase the chances...
Niet... No soup for you! Come back one year! -Soup 🤚
At last...recognition of Carouselambra as a great overlooked track...thanks Martin.
I love that track too. Interestingly although never played live by the band they reportedly were planning on playing it on their upcoming 1980 North American tour/Oct-Nov 1980 (of course that never happened when Bonham passed on Sept 25)
Thin Lizzy is a great example. My favorite song by them, hands down, is "Freedom Song."
But Thin Lizzy is also an example for having hits that are great songs. Not like Sabbath with Paranoid.
Great great tune & definitely a deep track, really affected me when I first heard it (and every time since)
@@wolf1977 yep! And it is Butch Jones‘s favorite Lizzy song. He is a superfan in case you don‘t know.
@@wernermoritz882 I am too but maybe not quite at "Butch level". My Thin Lizzy playlist besides maybe 25 or so TL albums (plus related bands) is about 330 songs deep (Black Star Riders, Brian Robertson solo, John Norum/John Sykes/21 Guns TL covers, Märvel, Pride Tiger, Wild Horses, Lynott solo). "Stop Messin' Around" on Gary Moore's Platinum Collection is a cool track featuring Lynott on bass. It's a fast-paced straight-up Blues rocker...Some TL albums many may not have heard: the 90's compilation Whiskey In The Jar (includes a wonderful live "Dublin") & the live Breaking Out In Chicago from '76 (that one might be an "unofficial" release) - good set list, "Blues Boy" is great
@@wolf1977 Wow, impressive! I guess you actually might be at Butch level. 😄
Judas Priest: 1. Victim of Changes 2. Beyond the Realms of Death 3. Dissident Aggressor 4. Heading out to the Highway. 5. Painkiller
Black Sabbath: 1. Symptom of the Universe 2. N.I.B 3. Fairies Wear Boots 4. Killing Yourself to Live 5. Into the Void.
Led Zeppelin: 1. Achilles Last Stand 2. Babe I'm Gonna Leave You 3. Dancing Days 4. The Rover 5. Friends
UFO: 1. Time on my Hands 2. Doctor Doctor 3. Lights Out 4. Rock Bottom 5. Queen of the Deep
Uriah Heep: 1. Salisbury 2. The Magicians Birthday 3. Bird of Prey 4. Easy Livin' 5. Look at Yourself
Excellent Zeppelin list. You left out July Morning 🌄
@@stuartsharpe7729 : Yeah, July Morning is also great - excellent pick! - Other Heep songs that I had considered: Stealin' Lady in Black, Gypsy, Spider Woman and I really LOVE Wonderworld. Uriah Heep were a band that my parents were into in the early 70's ( they just had the greatest hits album, and I think they got that because Easy Livin' sounds so much like Deep Purple - way more than it does a Heep tune, IMO ). I conned them into getting " The Magicians Birthday" for my Birthday, based entirely on the fact that I was obsessed with the Roger Dean album cover art in the Columbia House books that were sent out.
Great dialogue.
Great show gentleman - really interesting topic.
As soon as I read the topic I knew that Thin Lizzy would be prominently mentioned. Seems that that's the band where many only know the (still great) radio hits & haven't heard any of the other stuff, of which there's a lot (and most of it really good). One of those bands where their Greatest Hits package will contain many songs that many rock music fans won't recognize, but the band itself was pretty successful overall (less so in the US). Their Jailbreak album was their top seller at about 2 million units - their first two releases didn't do much sales-wise...BTW Martin's quote about that debut album: "drawing mainly from bluesy non-metal influences" and found the compositions "astonishingly well written, very Irish, very heart-felt"
We need a part 2 of this!
My dozen favorite Led Zeppelin songs:
1. You Shook Me
2. What Is and What Should Never Be
3. Thank You
4. Nobody's Fault But Mine
5. Kashmir
6. Black Dog
7. Immigrant Song
8. Custard Pie
9. The Rain Song
10. In The Evening
11. Trampled Under Foot
12. Dazed and Confused
Hear Stairway To Heaven, Rock and Roll and Whole Lotta Love way too much on the radio to even care about hearing them again!!
Good point Pete about people saying you must or should like this drives me mad.
I'm with ya Martin... So glad u said "Carouselambra"!!!!!
Always love The Fun House. I love this channel so much, I forget that not 90 million people watch, but they should!
My favorite UFO songs
Timothy
Silverbird
Queen of the Deep
Too Much of Nothing
Martian Landscape
Electric Phase
I Ain't No Baby/ Arbory Hill ( intro bleeds into the song beautifully)
Long Gone
the Writer
Anyway Anyway
You are so right about BOC
Radio play’s Godzilla Burning for you
And Reaper
True fans know there’s so much more
Paranoid has massive appeal because It's a relatively simple quick hard rock that does enough to show case what the band has to offer. Ozzy sounds good, Iommi has a catchy riff and guitar solo, Bill Ward does a good job of banging around and Geezer has some catchy bass guitar playing. The lyrics are easy to hear and sin along to to as well. It's what I consider the "Nickle Tour" song of Black Sabbath and for many people is good enough. It's been easy for FM rock stations to mindlessly pump it out over the airwaves to death at 2:48 in length and unfortunately tons of people seem content with just hearing that song.
I like the song and do really like the riff that Iommi plays but think it's somewhat short sited as to what the band is actually all about, I'm also sick of hearing Iron Man but at least that does a bit more to highlight the qualities of their song writing, playing and versatility.
Totally agree.
Pete as you said many times BOC people buy a ticket and only go to hear Don't Fear The Reaper.
Uriah Heep the same only Byrom era strange.
I think Pete hit on something about the driving simplicity of the hits, like Easy Livin’ and Paranoid. The masses love the straight forward beat. I have a lot of faith in individuals, but not in the masses, which tend to be unsophisticated. It doesn’t mean those songs are bad, they’re just so straight forward that the mass appeal is what brought the masses in, people who aren’t intellectual about music and complexity.
Yeah complexity doesn't necessarily equal good or bad. It's just more time & key changes that tend to challenge your ears more than more straightforward music. I think if a song is hummable, or you can whistle the main melody after hearing it, it's got a good chance of becoming "popular" (eg a hit). That doesn't say anything about its quality though. I can hum "God Only Knows" by the Beach Boys, a song I'd say is as good as anything else ever written in pop/rock
It’s not Friday funhouse unless Pete and Martin give local weather at the start of the video.
Great show guys. Yes, some people are just radio listeners and not album buyers. I saw the same thing at Cheap Trick show here in Australia a few years ago. The crowd suddenly went enthusiastic when Surrender or Dream Police and 2 or 3 other songs were played. But an album track forget about it. This is quite common. I guess there are hardcore fans as well as casual listeners.
A lot of people don’t buy music. They only know what’s on the radio from when they were young, so they only know “Don’t Fear the Reaper” etc…
I know a lot of other BOC tunes but "Reaper" is still one of my fave tracks. But yeah, it'd be tough I think for someone who just listens to radio hits to for example participate in a discussion site like SoT, other than maybe saying: "wow I have a lot of homework to do..."
One More For The Rodeo UFO what a song cheers Pete
That was good thank you.
5- In The Evening
4- When The Levee Breaks
3- Down By The Seaside
2- How Many More Times
1- The Rover
My wife and I are the complete opposites in our listening habits. She is the radio hits only listener - she knows nothing else from these bands/artists. I am the full album/catalog listener that definitely appreciates the deep cuts much more than the hits.
But some songs were so magical they have hit written all over them. California Dreaming and Taking Care of Business come to mind.
Good show gentlemen! I really like this topic guys, I'm a deep track kind of guy myself, some bands I want to hear their hits but more times than not, I'm digging their deeper cuts.
My Picks are:
AC/DC : KISS: April Wine:
Soul Stripper Nothin' To Lose I Can Hear You Callin'
Walk All Over You Watchin' You Cat's Claw
Next To The Moon Love Her All I Can Hot On The Wheels of Love
Squealer Larger Than Life Before The Dawn
Overdose Save Your Love Future Tense
Ratt: Alice Cooper Band/Solo:
Tell The World Black Juju
Sweet Cheater Ballad of Dwight Fry
U Got It Sick Things
In Your Direction Man With The Golden Gun
Top Secret Millie and Billie
For favorite bands, deep tracks are often just as enjoyable as the radio hits. But for bands you don’t dig as much, the deep tracks don’t usually impress. For example, I’m not a huge Styx fan...I do like a few of their radio songs but after that it all goes downhill fast. But old Chicago (of whom I love) has a wealth of deep cuts that I never tire of.
I've always been a deep album cut guy. The "hit" process of repeating a song into popular conciousness has always grated on me. Also the fact that today, classic rock radio such a has a HUGE menu of songs to choose from, they shouldn't repeat a song in month, yet... I'm convinced that the royalty structure is set up to be cheaper to repeat songs than to not (hence, hit production). I'm just a product of early unformatted FM radio, I guess. PS - It still smokes me that most people have bought into the idea that commercial success is a true barometer of artistic worth. There, I said it... -MJ
To record companies music's strictly a business not an art form (with rare exceptions) & they sign the checks - unless you self-release your records, which you can now do more easily via the web. So they've always had a big say in what gets promoted & played on commercial radio - at least in any type of steady rotation. Far be it from me to defend them, I think they've largely taken advantage of many artists, but I think that explains much of what you hear on radio.
Also radio stations starting in the late 70's began using "programming" services that developed play lists automatically, cutting live radio dj's out of the mix. To me some of the web algorithms behind services like Pandora, iHeartRadio, Spotify etc that determine what gets displayed on home pages, how "related song lists" are built, how virtual radio stations are programmed etc are just updated versions of this
Continued post-got cut off: to have that musical bond that is so powerful!
Music is subjective-except when the subject is MY MUSIC! MY EARS ARE NOT TO BE ARGUED WITH!
A follow up with Queen, Sweet, Heart would be awesome!
Paradise/The Spell is my favorite Uriah Heep song.
Btw, "D'Yer Maker" is actually pronounced like the island nation "Jamaica".
The title references an old UK joke in which two guys are talking in a pub, and one asks the other where his wife is, to which he responds "She's on vacation" (actually the Brits would say "on holiday").
The other guy replies by asking "Jamaica?" (as in "Did she go to Jamaica?"), to which the other responds "No, I didn't make her go".
It's making fun of the British lower class "Cockney" accent, in which the question "Did you make her?" (phonetically spelled of course famously as "d'yer maker?"; yes I know the 'phonetic' spelling isn't particularly phonetic, at least not on this side of the pond) sounds like "Jamaica?"
There's a sexual innuendo there too of course, and it also is referencing the song's reggae influence (hence the punny nod to Jamaica), but that's the story behind the title of that song.
Excellent show I can relate to a lot that you both said. When I ranked albums I have comments like " you ranked my favourite last, so I switched off" or the other is why wasn't their most successful your top one your mad or words to that affect
A&R guys like John Kalodner played a huge role in the career trajectory of a lot of artists. If Kalodner didn’t like what he was hearing,it was back to the drawing board.
Concert experience Rush, 2 guys next to me sat still for over 2 hours and went ballistic when Closer to the Heart was played
With Priest my favorite song has always been Island of Domination and I would say Killing Machine, Here Come The Tears & Savage are easily in the Top 8
To throw in Blue Oyster Cult to mix they are poster child of discussion. They might have some of the best deep cuts of any hard rock/metal band. At smaller venues which tends to draw the devoted fan base the audience goes nuts for Dominance & Submission and ETI more so than say Godzilla.
Great show guys! I haven't been collecting albums for a long time, but I am aware that there are people out there that only know the hits and don't even bother to check out anything else from their so-called favorite bands. I don't have my top five Black Sabbath songs set in stone. But I got into the early Ozzy albums recently, and I'm loving "Supernaut," "Snnowblind," "Hole in the Sky," "Thrill of It All," and "Killing Yourself to Live." I purposely avoid 'Paranoid' because I never need to hear "War Pigs," "Iron Man," and the title track ever again!
Judas Priest: Victims of Changes/ Exciter/ Desert Plains/ You Don't Have to be Old to be Wise/ Sinner
Black Sabbath: The Writ/ War Pigs/ Wheels of Confusion/ Into the Void/ Megalomania
LZ: Achille's Last Stand/ In the Light/ Thank You/ The Song Remains the Same-Rain Song/ In the Evening
UFO: Only You can Rock Me/ The Writer/ Lights Out/ This Kid's/ Too Handle to Handle (not a big fan of UFO)
Uriah Heep: Bird of Prey/ The Park/ The Wizard/ Rainbow Demon/ Fools
That was a very good show, sirs!
Cheers.
In the Evening is a kick-ass song and in my top ten of Zeppelin favorites.
@@kimberlywalker3970 Great track
Rapid Fire
Most of the time when it's a band I only like the hits its because I'm not really a big fan of the band, but have a fond love for those hit songs. For me, it's never a lack of trying because I am a collector so If I like even one song from a band I will buy basically their entire catalog because I find myself desperately wanting to add more songs to my giant list of songs I already love. On the other side of things bands, I love all the deep cuts on are bands I love, and while I still usually like the hits it's more so because of Nostalgia. Because that was my gateway into the band so without those hits, I would have never bought the album which led me to the other tracks. Over time on bands I love the hits make their way down the list because they become less interesting, and I find myself wanting to find more and more songs to like because I already have a long list of bands I only like the hits from. As a music lover, I want an endless number of songs I love so I want to find bands that you just love all these deep cuts, and sometimes it works out that way, and sometimes it doesn't and they become a hits band for me.
Exactly, I also research a band's discography when I come across something by them that I like (hit or deep cut, doesn't matter). And yes over time if there's overexposure of certain songs they move to the bottom of the playlist, or get skipped next time they come up. Unfortunately one can't do that with traditional radio
I often start with the hits and then hope I'll discover deep cuts I love too, sometimes it works out sometimes it doesn't.
For Zeppelin...
"I'm Gonna Crawl", "The Ocean", "That's The Way", "The Rover", "The Song Remains The Same".
"The Crunge" & "D'yer Mak'er" (Zep's best "reggae" number - a single in the US but not in the UK)...BTW there are supposedly 19 album tracks that Zep never played live & that latter one is one of 'em, "I'm Gonna Crawl" is another one
I know all these songs. The Ocean is my top ten of favorite Zeppelin songs. I'm fond of The Rover. I've been listening to Physical Graffiti for the past couple of weeks. That's the Way isn't a favorite, but I don't hate it. I'm Gonna Crawl and The Song Remains the Same are good songs but not favorites either.
Just Priest- I Would say everything on Unleashed in the East are my favorites and UFO the same with Strangers in The Night, which pictures most of the hits.
there's a handful of bands that I believe the "hits" were the best songs....38 Special & Steely Dan come to mind, but that's just me...
Two of my zeppelin tunes were hits. "Still of the night" by Whitesnake and "Get it on" by Kingdom Come
Great subject and show. I'm with you that most of the times with bands I love it's not the singles however (and this could potentially be a show one day) there's been a few times when I've seen the band live and heard the single and then I realised what all the fuss was about. It wasn't until I heard it live that the power of the track became apparent to me. An example is A Design For Life by Manic Street Preachers - their most popular song wouldn't make my top 30 of their music but when I went to the concert for the first time I was really affected by it in a way I had never been on record.
Maybe seeing/hearing others' reaction to those hits also swayed your opinion? I think that can happen for example in movie theaters when there's a strong audience reaction to a movie's scenes that you maybe wouldn't personally have watching that same move alone at home (on a small screen). I think experiencing something live with others will always be more visceral
@@wolf1977 Yeah that’s a fair suggestion and it leads to further discussion about what a song is designed for? Traditionally they were made to play to packed rooms and to make people dance, definitely a social experience. Throughout rock history and the recording industry that’s probably changed where sometimes they’re built for one person with headphones. But with regards to the first point, I’d suggest that a song especially a rock song isn’t complete until it’s performed in front of an audience and so how it reacts and what it adds is part of the song and it’s affect.
@@darrendohertymusic But then you have bands like The Beatles (didn't tour at all for 5 years), Steely Dan (stopped touring for a while) & Elvis (no live shows for like 8 years in the 60's) that are able to get the music across w/o playing the songs live - and at the same time sell albums & get lots of airplay
@@wolf1977 Absolutely that’s why I said it’s an interesting discussion point. If a song plays in the woods and no one hears it, is it any good?
@@darrendohertymusic Only if it's from Songs From The Wood...
I just tried to rank all Deep Purple songs (my fav band). I made it to the 1968-1975 albums and realised it was kind of impossible to do and maybe pointless. There are so many songs I like equally. So many songs that could/ should make my Top 10 or 20 and I realised that even though I really love the Morse era, none of the songs would make the Top 30 which is kind of none sense when I think about it deeper (no pun).
My Top 10 ended up being: Burn, Flight of the Rat, Rat Bat Blue, Lay Down Stay Down, Fools, You Fool No One, Highway Star, Soldier of Fortune, Pictures of Home, Stormbringer. Smoke on the Water ended up @ 64, Black Night @ 73 and Child in Time @ 33.
It's hard enough to rank the albums!
Cheers.
My favorite Blue Oyster Cult songs
Workshop of the 🔭 Telescopes
Teen Archer
Dominance and Submission
Tattoo Vampire
Nosferatu
the Vigil
Monsters
Joan Crawford
Take Me Away
This is a one for Pete and Martin.
Pick a Deep Purple compilation album, of 10 songs, don't include the famous songs or hits, but you can only use the 4 Mk2 albums. 👍
I'm in let's see Lazy, Child in Time, Demon's Eye, ; Hard Lovin" Man Strange Kind ... When a Blind man Cries, Smooth Dancer , Flight of the Rat, Rat Bat Blue, Freedom
Including the other MkII albums would change that list
Pete feels about Doctor Doctor the way I've always felt about Kasmir - just don't like it, never have. I'd put Tea For One in for Zeppelin. I appreciate Martin's love for the Chapman era UFO albums. One of my all-time favorites from that era is Profession Of Violence. We Belong To The Night was a great set opener on the Mechanix tour. Priest, I'd go Solar Angels (again the set opener on that tour). Heep, how about Sell Your Soul from Abominog (how's that for Contrarian). For Sabbath - The Writ has always been my favorite song by them. Cheers Gentlemen!
...actually, I like "Doctor Doctor"...:0)...but don't get me started on "Kashmir"...I just don't get, and understand the appeal that that song has...it goes absolutely nowhere for 9+ minutes...
We all love the greatest hits from our favourite bands, but the real treasures are to be found among the deep cuts.
yes because the payoff is the hunt, it can become addicting to search for those musical nuggets
@@wolf1977 Very true, although sometimes there's no hunting required, when listening to an album you'll be instantly engrossed by a track that will become seared in your mind that becomes a personal favourite for life an example for me being March of the black queen from Queen 2.
@@andrewcarr5923 But you first had to be interested enough to buy the album, in order to then hear the deep track. Many don't take the step to find out what album contains the hit song they just heard & liked
BTW, fun conversation! Another poster made a great point - Zep and Sabbath fans aren't choosing what becomes hits.
Carouselambra is a great choice!
Thin Lizzy love Cold Seat, Rosalie, Whiskey in a Jar and The Boys are Back in town.
You could also say the same about people who go on about deep cuts you like what you like 👍
Like you two, there are sooooooo many songs that I like, but I have heard so many times that I don't need to hear them ever again.
You Shook Me All Night Long, Tom Sawyer, Jump, Free Bird, Sweet Emotion, Legs, Take It Easy, etc.
Give me Whole Lotta Rosie, The Garden, Atomic Punk, Gimme Three Steps, Same Old Song and Dance, Nasty Dogs and Funky Kings, Those Shoes, etc.
Where the streets have no name is a hit for u2 and it is one of thier Greatest songs
All first 3 tracks on The Joshua Tree. Bad is my favourite U2 and both Pride and Promenade. We could probably say the same for all of the tracks on Under A Blood Red Sky, but especially Sunday Bloody Sunday > The Electric Co > New Year’s day > 40.
@@maddysmith8846 yea. I love pop too actually
Great topic.
Judas Priest: Victim of Changes, Electric Eye, Delivering The Goods, Metal Gods, Savage
Black Sabbath: Into The Void, Hole In The Sky, Supernaut, Killing Yourself To Live, Glory Ride
Led Zeppelin: Black Dog, How Many More Times, The Rover, Since I've Been Loving You, Kashmir
UFO: Natural Thing, Love To Love, Makin' Moves, Dreaming, Give Her The Gun
Uriah Heep: Seven Stars, Suicidal Man, Pilgram, Easy Livin', The Easy Road
Possible New Topic: Favorite Bands Or Albums found in a "Bargain Bin"
A fascinating discussion, one of your best. I would say a sub genre built on hits, or at least radio singles and videos on heavy rotation on scuzz and kerrang etc... is nu-metal. Generally, I would argue they were songs built around 1 big chord driven riff and a big chorus and written for airplay. The hits/singles were generally the best songs and VERY indicative of the sound of the album. I recall buying Sinner by Drowning Pool because I loved the song Bodies...it was the 1st track on the album but it was all downhill after because it was 1 song written 10 times. Bands such as Papa Roach, Ill Nino, Pist-On, Spineshank, Dry Kill Logic among others all had strong singles but the albums had little in the way of depth or variety which was absolutely fine because they usually delivered on the one thing they were going for. I know nu-metal is usually a swear word on this channel but I liked some of it and I think, for the most part, the hits were the best songs.
This is a great topic, the deep cuts are sometimes the better songs. My top 5 Priest songs would be and I know this might be controversial but I love Cathedral Spires from Jugulator, Desert Plains, The Sentinel, Riding On The Wind & Beyond the Realms of Death. Honorable mention is Ram It Down
Martin, speaking of Friends have you noticed Chris Squire including the string section in his bass solo on The Fish from Yessongs? As far as I know he only did this on that album.
Would love to see this with kiss, maiden, purple, aerosmith and van halen
Any concert I miss - my first question " what deep cuts did they play?". I could care less about the hits. Rock radio has killed them for me. I just NOW started listening to the 1st Boston album again after 20 radioless years. Radio had killed that whole album for me, but now that I don't listen to radio, I'm liking that album again
To me.... the "hits" are usually feel good songs & laden with hooks & lots of melody;in the expansive rock genre's. I've usually levitated to the "deep cuts" because I'm a musician & since the early eighties -music in general was & is an escape/passion/outlet. That's not the case with casual music listeners or the younger generations who grew up & never had the time to consider music as an "album" experience. + What's going on(moments of importance),in your life @ that time can elevate a track into the soundtrack of a person's life. Songs like that; that resonate for me: BAD CO. -The Way I Choose, KANSAS - Just about anything from Audio Visions, J. PRIEST - Desert Plains, ZEPPELIN - Bring It On Home, and the criminally under-rated Unforgiven album by M. SCHENKER! .... Just to name a few.
mine is UFO, 5-Oh My, 4-Reasons Love, 3-Lights out, 2-Ain't no baby, 1-Love lost Love, for Rush 5-A Farewell to Kings, 4-Cygnus X-1 Book II: Hemispheres, 3-Entre Nous, 2-The Analog Kid, 1-The Camera Eye for Scorpions 5-In Trance, 4-Another Piece of Meat, 3-Animal Magnetism, 2-Hot and Cold, 1-Arizona
The thing here is we are in a community of music lovers so we know entire discography's of bands and love deep cuts all over the place. John Q public doesn't care they like what they've heard on the radio or in some other form and thats all they need to know. they aren't "wrong" its just not important to them as it is to us. In conclusion it's inconceivable to us to not know other tracks but to them simply not important.
Exactly! I'd just say that it's totally believable to me that many would only choose to hear the hits, why not? It's easy. Easy works. Researching entire discographies & finding deep tracks is hard - well at least harder. Easy wins most of the time. Easy isn't "wrong", it's just...easy. As in path of least resistance
These are some of my favorites and/or the best songs in my opinion as of today. This is all about me (ha-ha), but also about you and your picks. They're supposed to be different:
Black Sabbath:
1. The Sign of The Southern Cross
2. Sabbath, Bloody Sabbath
3. Heaven and Hell
4. A National Acrobat
5. Lord of This World
Thin Lizzy:
1. The Holy War
2. Emerald
3. Massacre
4. Black Rose
5. Cold Sweat
Blue Oyster Cult:
1. Astronomy
2. Veteran of The Psychic Wars
3. In The Presence of Another World
4. Monsters
5. Hot Rails to Hell
Scorpions:
1. The Sails of Charon
2. Drifting Sun
3. We'll Burn The Sky
4. Crying Days
5. Top of The Bill
Judas Priest:
1. Victim of Changes
2. The Sentinel
3. Painkiller
4. Electric Eye
5. Beyond The Realms of Death
Iron Maiden:
1. Powerslave
2. Hallowed Be Thy Name
3. Phantom of The Opera
4. Hell On Earth
5. Dance of Death
My Priest top 5: 5. Spectre. 4. Living After Midnight. 3. Heavy Duty/Defenders of the Faith. 2. Victim of Changes. 1. The Hellion/ Electric Eye.
To summarise (for me), simpler catchier songs (usually singles) are easy to get into, but are also very easy to get bored with. Conversely, longer or more complex songs having far more depth to them take repeated listening before their charms are fully revealed and appreciated. That's why they're the songs which have a long lasting appeal. And that's the tragedy of most music radio, with very few exceptions they only play singles.
Also more complex songs tend to take more time to develop & the "classic" radio hit is your 3 minute song (maybe longer sometimes but almost always less than 5 minutes - even if the original version has to be edited or cut down). So longer songs not played a lot on radio become "deep tracks"
Interesting & enjoyable show. I’m one of those who often likes the singles best, not always hits tho’ eg: Touch Too Much. Quite often I bought the album & liked the song before the song became a hit eg: Mr Blue Sky. Sometimes the hits were my 1st introduction to a band (Killer Queen). Also songs considered hits were not actually hits at the time eg: Thunderstruck & Don’t Stop Me Now. I also wonder whether what are considered hits in the UK is different to the US. Aerosmith & Kiss spring to mind, as their 70s albums never had any hits over here.
Aerosmith never made an impact chart-wise in the UK? Interesting...
@@wolf1977 not until the 80s.
@@parishofrock2963 Early 80's or later? Hate to think that no one caught on until Permanent Vacation...Actually if you missed the boat on the band in the 70's then (at least to me) there wasn't that much to like from Night In The Ruts through Done With Mirrors, and to me I don't love Draw the Line as much as many do
@@wolf1977 PV onwards.
The thing about people insisting you like the same songs/artists that THEY do (which I do constantly-especially when it comes to Zeppelin!) comes down to passion, music hits us deep and essentially is spiritual, and goes right to the soul. I often want other music fans to hear EVERYTHING just like I do-to have that bond in
It can also be dangerous to just live within your own bubble, only hearing what you already like or know. It's good to be open to others' opinions...BTW my fave Zep album (besides the double Physical Graffiti just because it's go more) is In Through The Out Door - I may have just set you off...🤷♂
@@wolf1977 true that, Wolf, but I own over 6 thousand c.d.'s that cover everything from ABBA, Merle Haggard, D'Angelo, Joni Mitchell, Enya to John Mellencamp, Bruce Springsteen, Neil Young to Slayer, Meshuggah, Opeth, Iron Maiden to Public Enemy, Sugarhill Gang....my ears are WIDE OPEN to ALL good music! If I had my own radio station - a lot of folks would be tuned in constantly, and very happy! Absolutely love In Through The Out Door - so creative and melodic, every song crackles with inventive licks and some killer keyboards on the album (John Paul Jones - stud musician!). What stuff do you like that would surprise your friends and family? Cheers, Treff
@@treff9226 I love fusion (especially 70's) & not many people I know are into that. Also 70's rock (especially the lesser known bands/albums of which I own A TON). I don't buy physical media any longer, everything I have is now digital (mp3's) - I just hit 17,000 albums. What I did years ago is rip everything I owned on LP's & cd's & then sorted through it to just keep the songs I liked, then built a music database from that. From that point on I bought music online a la carte (via download) & it's pretty rare when I like/buy every single song on a given album. So when I say 17k albums, that's not every song on them but rather only the tracks I like (63k total tracks & counting)
@@wolf1977 cool - that's a lot of music! So much great hard rock in the 70's, and much of it kind of obscure, so you gotta dig for it. I could never give up my PHYSICAL albums and don't like the highly compressed sound of mp3's. That said, I do download stuff from itunes from bands that only have specific gems on their albums, and surround them with spotty tuneage. It's a blast making compilation lists with NO aural turds, no songs that ruin the flow! You put a helluva lot of time into trimming the fat from your collection - life is short, only keep the ear candy! Current listening: Buckcherry, Exhorder, King's X, Guthrie Govan, Queen, The Weeknd, John Mayer. Be well!
@@treff9226 Just listened to the new King's X recently (it was OK) & last year's Aristocrats (Freeze! Live In Europe 2020)...Other new/recent listens for me: The Reputations, Don Mancuso, Cat Mother And The All-Night Newsboys, Les Dudek, Lonely Robot, Poseidon, Alan Hewitt & One Nation, Eric Johnson's new one: The Book Of Making/Yesterday Meets Today, Project Z
giving my 5 choices for 4 out of the 5 bands mentioned here...I"m leaving Uriah Heep out because, while I like them a lot, I'm not as intimately familiar with their catalog as I'd like to be...so, Priest: Rapid Fire, Rock Forever, Freewheel Burning, Bloodstone & Victim Of Changes...Sabbath: Supernaut, Symptom Of The Universe, Spiral Architect, A Bit Of Finger / Sleeping Village / Warning, & Megalomania...Zeppelin: Out On The Tiles, When The Levee Breaks, The Rover, Trampled Underfoot & Achilles Last Stand...UFO: Mother Mary, Natural Thing, Hot 'n Ready, Love To Love & Only You Can Rock Me...for "round 2" of this, may I suggest Foghat, Thin Lizzy, Nazareth, Kiss & Styx as the bands?...:0)
An interesting discussion on this topic .
The album that I'm going to use is outside the genre that you were discussing , but is an apt example I think .
The first album that I thought of was Billy Joel's The Stranger .
It seemed like every other song on that album was pushed as a single , and a lot of those hit songs appear regularly on top 10 lists .
Yet , by far , my favourite song on that album is Vienna .
You won't find it on any of his hits compilations ( that I'm aware of ) , and nobody ever talks about it .
Interestingly enough , I recently saw a UA-cam video where an Interviewer asked Billy Joel to name his 5 favourite songs from his own catalog .
Vienna was one of them .
Anyway , a great discussion gentlemen,
Thanks !
Exactly my takeaway from " The Stranger ", well stated
@@michaelbaucom4019 Thanks !
I used to think that "the hits" were the sell-out songs. And now I realize that the people who choose those songs knew what they were doing. There's music that connects with the public for a reason. Catchiness, memorable melodies, great grooves, sections that people will sing along to the big hook. That's an art. And in some ways, it is the best stuff. Not always. But often.
Well record execs typically decide which songs on an album get released as singles (after all they sign the checks). Also back in the day the single was THE main way to promote individual songs, before AOR & classic rock radio got going. So to me some of those hits aren't "sell-outs" because they became popular, they're sell-outs because of the actual music (perhaps it's not indicative of that band's sound but clearly plays to current trends).
Which gets back to why certain music is popular in the first place, as you say why it connects with the public. Some bands purposely mine current music trends to sell albums & singles (The Stones were great at that), so calling something a sell-out means you're making negative assumptions about a group's intent & that's kinda tough to do without having been there. Sometimes they come out & tell you, usually they don't. Now I was one of those who basically thought that anything popular was automatically a sell-out but that was a long time ago...
My favorite Buck Owens songs
Picking and Grinning
"Somebody just blowed up a cow" - traumatic memories of my parents making me watch Hee Haw on Saturday evenings
Pete, what about Wanton Song by Led Zeppelin? That’s a heavy tune and one that hasn’t been overplayed. I know you brought it up briefly. Im just surprised that’s not top 10 for you . I think it’s probably my favorite
That one is in my personal Top 10. I did hear it frequently on the radio growing up, though (along with a ridiculous load of other Zeppelin tracks.) On one such occasion, the song ended, and a memory that'll always stick with me is hearing the DJ utter (paraphrasing), "Everytime I hear that ending scream, it sounds like Robert Plant is using the bathroom, but is severely constipated." 😂
That's a true story! Either way, "The Wanton Song" was always one of my top faves.
It's a top 10 for me for sure.
I love Wanton Song, but I always thought that chorus had a jazzy, bossa nova feel to it... Like Martin's comment on The Rover, "is it really though"? I'd say Good Times Bad Times was kind of pounding for its time, and Communication Breakdown kind of has that classic metal single not picking... I always assumed Wanton Song was more in people's "weird" song category, like The Crunge.
@@gabriellarrubia1006 The jazzy, ascending part of The Wanton Song (played twice) is my favorite thing about it (Cool of you to mention that.) Killer riffing on the verses, of course (and not to forget Jones and Bonham), but the walk down concluding the verses, followed by the section of ascending jazzy chords? SO hot! Interesting that you mention The Crunge - it takes quite a beating from most fans (and I understand why), but there are some cool things going on in that track, musically-speaking (e.g. Alternating time signatures, 9th chords.)
@@knightvisioniixv Yeah some are better than others, but when Zeppelin used to get experimental with these tracks it always resulted in something interesting. I always thought these tracks kept Houses of the Holy and Physical Graffiti well paced. People hate Lemon Song too, but hey- Jimmy puts on a show on that track. Luckily they were smart enough to let the variety work in their favor and not release a "disco album" one year and a "funk album" in the next. Although I wouldn't have been opposed to something like an Eddie Hazel album from Jimmy- he had the right chops to make it sound right, just a twangy tone to pull it off...