How Can We Improve Late Night Subway Service?
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- Опубліковано 29 гру 2022
- Late-night subway service in New York City has been plagued with long wait times, trip times, and unnecessary transfers. In this video, I talk about ways to improve late-night subway service to make it more bearable and attractive for overnight travelers.
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#Latenight #nycsubway #mta - Авто та транспорт
I got home from a New Year’s Eve party at 1 am and the train was so crowded that I had to push through a crowd of people just to get off of the train. Such a surreal experience
We need to look at train spacing along with transfer ease. Sometimes the 4 train is right behind the 6 still leaving an 18 minute gap. Each transfer can cost an extra 20 minutes of waiting time
Having worked the A on late nights it's a grind making almost 55 stops from 207 to the Rock. The C from 168 to WTC would be a big help on cpw and 8th ave. The Last A express out of 207 is 2206 and once that 2208 leaves it's the first one to Lefferts. I used to make a 2254 from 207 to the rock and my trains used to be really packed from manhattan to howard beach because of JFK. Late night B service is pointless. My 2035 to brighton used to be empty from 145 to brighton. WIth all these GOs going in effect at 10 pm it wouldnt make sense. Having the 5 run to bowling green overnight makes sense and the 4 runs express on lexington till about 130am as it is now. The R overnight is a homeless shelter because it's all underground and 2234 is the last one out of 95th to continental and its mostly packed from 42nd st to Continental. People should note that all the stations in Manhattan south of 59th are within 1 block of eachother so ppl should plan accordingly.
I did something funny once during the late night. From W Farms Sq, I got off the 2, took the Q44 to Flushing, and took the LIRR to Penn Station. The EXACT same 2 train arrived minutes later at 34th Street-Penn. So you can definitely see what's wrong here.
West farms square? Where’s that
@@Snowy-oq4urin the White Plains Neighborhood, Bronx
I remember late night 2 exp service back in the 90s when the red birds still ran. It would be great to get more late express service back.
Yeah Late Night is mess
But what is more a mess is the Z Mystic Transit worst enemy
@@otnielbatista6192 thats true, the Z don't even exist on late nights.
No it's not a mess
*It's a CATASTROPHE*
The 6 Train took 15 mins St Lawrence to Buhre 💀 !
@@brayand8022 it only exists like 10 hours a week
I like your ideas, although it is hardly likely to happen unless there is a serious influx of cash into the MTA's till. Also, What most late night riders detest more than the transfer itself, is the "wait" between those transfers. This could be partially resolved by rescheduling the trains to better meet up at transfer stations. But again that itself is another can of worms, as many lines meet up with several different other lines and coordinating them all would be well near impossible. Still a good video with plenty of food for thought. I enjoyed.
what won't be difficult is that there's alot of lines to time transfers to (look at zurich hbf during around xx:00,) but that there's a lot of GOs that make scheduling somewhat difficult. hiring more schedulers and making GOs easier to schedule around would allow the MTA to time transfers. the net costs here would be next to nothing--NYCT needs to hire more schedulers anyways. also, publishing timetables so that people could plan around the 20 minute service would be super helpful as well.
Great video. The thing I dislike most about traveling overnight is the transfers.
I'd like to bring up subway-bus transfers as well, especially in the outer boroughs. I'm not sure how feasible it is to have buses run as frequently as the subways do overnight (which really comes down to finances).
I think it's low-hanging fruit to schedule buses that only connect to one subway at the last stop, to leave 5 minutes after the train arrives. This would be amazing for places like Jamaica, Flushing, and St. George (SI Ferry).
You could also extend the G to Jamaica-179 St to improve service past 71st Ave! If the MTA had more yard space to keep those R160s instead of shunting them onto the express tracks from 75th Ave to 179 St, then F service can run express while the G handle local. This would also mean that the E train can remain express past 71st Ave for overnight airport passengers to Sutphin Blvd. Also, why not send the 5 train to Bowling Green (the terminal during weekends). The 5 can easily be turned around. J service can end at Chambers St while M service can be extended past Broad St to either 9th Ave or Bay Parkway on West End. West End, in general, has too many stops and while the D is maining express in Manhattan, it has to tank local past 145 St all the way to Norwood.
I remember growing up in the 90s with frequencies for the train line that I used to live by our Fulton Street was 18-24 minutes on the A train, now that I live by two subway lines the frequencies are a lot more tolerable
I've heard that frequencies used to be 40 minutes between trains. I dunno if that was true during the 70s or 80s, but if it is. Then holy crap, 40 minutes for a local only subway service, that's already the longest line in the system.
All NYC Subway routes should run 24/7!
I have long known that New York has 24-hour subway service, but I had long assumed it was a skeleton service on the core of the network and that some branches would not be served on the peripheries of the network & where two lines duplicated one another, such as no service on the Rockaway Park spur, in Jamaica only service to Archer Avenue and not Hillside Avenue, and no service over Jerome Avenue because it duplicates the Grand Concourse. I was shocked when I learned that every single stop has 24-hour service, every last one, and the only line that closes at night is the 42nd Street Shuttle.
Here is a plan that I came up with before I knew this, before doing further research & finding out that late-night service is already better than this:
1 Van Cortlandt - Chambers Street, then via 3 to New Lots Ave.
2 Flatbush Ave - Wakefield making all local stops.
4 167th St - Borough Hall making all local stops.
5 East 180th St - Eastchester.
6 Pelham Bay - Brooklyn Bridge, then over 4 to Borough Hall.
7 service over entire route 24 hours.
C from Norwood over B to Bryant Park, then over F to Jay St, then over C to Euclid Ave, then over A to Rockaway Blvd where trains divide: front 4 cars to Far Rockaway, rear 4 to Ozone Park.
D Coney Island - Sunset Park.
G Coney Island via Culver to Queens Plaza, then over R to Forest Hills.
K from Jamaica Parsons Archer over J, M to Bryant Park, then over C to 181st St. Limited journeys to/from Inwood Yard would call additionally at 190th St, which would be closed for about 3 hours in the middle of the night.
L service over entire route 24 hours.
M Myrtle Ave - Middle Village.
N Astoria - Coney Island (over R Times Square - 59th St).
R Bay Ridge - Forest Hills, then all stops to Jamaica Parsons Archer.
S Franklin Ave - Prospect Park, then over Q to Coney Island.
There would be a lot of transfers & fewer one-seat rides than in the day, but the transfers would be timed connections. It is inspired by how my city runs night buses.
I also had some crazier ideas, like a 1 loop service that runs from Van Cortlandt down the 7th Ave local, then uses the South Ferry shared balloon loop to switch to 4th Avenue, returning on the IRT Main Line (including the 42nd Street shuttle) up to Van Cortlandt Park (not possible on the current track layout at Grand Central junction).
Hey Mystic, you should make a video about the LIRR’s Lower Montauk Branch which was abandoned by the LIRR in 2012 and is now only used by freight rail. You should make a video talking about it, and also discussing if we should reactivate it for LIRR service or perhaps a service similar to the proposed Interborough Express.
the 5 train going to brooklyn bridge city hall was an interesting one. I think it would be a good idea if the 5 train ran local to city hall during late nights. I personally don't take late night service, but I have thought about those people taking late night service to and from dyre avenue to lexington ave, and it is inconvenient for those to take the 5 from dyre avenue to 180th, then take the 2 train to 149th grand concourse, then take the 4 on lexington. I think this would be a great idea.
Mid-American transit agencies smaller than Chicago:
DAMN!!! Y’all actually have late night service?! 15-20 minute headways?! That’s St. Louis & maybe Dallas’s DAYTIME pattern; y’all have it good up there!
These are honestly amazing suggestions, and I always show videos like these to my superiors to maybe spread an idea. Thanks for making videos like these! I sometimes operate the nighttime E train because of low amounts of available train staff, and E trains run every 15 to 25 minutes for the most part, sometimes with waits up to 30 or 40. When I’m coming from Manhattan, the E train platforms are always overcrowded and really full considering what time of night it is, and they are coming from parties or work or a night out, and the E line is one of the most essential in brining a lot of people from Manhattan back into Queens, especially where the main bus depots are of the entire upper east side of queens and also several other connections to Brooklyn bound buses and the J train. The E train definitely needs to be reworked scheduling wise. 😔
I do not know if I am correct but London runs late night service on 4 lines and operates on Friday and Saturday nights
Have you ever considered being a council member for the MTA board? I feel like you’d be the key person our city needs to improve our system and make it the best in the Northeast! You’re clear with the proposals, they are useful, and make a ton of sense! In this case with late night service, it makes me wonder why they didn’t implement your plan in the first place. I feel like if the MTA just viewed your channel and considered your plans, scheduling and service would make a lot more sense than it does now! Keep up the great work! 😁
Most important would be to have social workers swoop in in the middle of the lines and remove all the people sheltering in the trains.
Good point, the catches are lack of late night crews like you said also the reserved revenue fleet needed for late night shifts. Since most of them are running during the day. The yards need some time to do maintence, service or repairs on them. I pick up buses that sometimes have been running 15-20hours shifts and get pulled only have 3-5 hours before being assigned to routes. I know trains have a higher service interval than buses.
Love the style of video Mystic, however it would be helpful if you could show some maps on screen with your proposed changes, as for someone like me who is familiar but not an expert, it can be quite confusing to follow. Keep up the good work!
Great idea Extend late night 5 train to grand central 42nd street I see extremely early morning 5 trains heading to Dyre Avenue crowded
Yes! The first uptown 5 train arrives between 705-715 @ west farms square. It’s awful.
Everything Mystic posts it brightens my day
What you did here was something like Queens Boulevard and 6th Avenue where they still have an Express service during the late nights D & F trains on IRT Eastside and Westside lines. Q train did used to have a late night service Express until 2015-2017
I like how the planned late night reroute of the M sort of resembles that of when it was still brown.
I think plans are already set in place for the M to travel to Chambers street temporarily which would be good so that there’s no 20 minute wait time to leave Manhattan. M service just from Middle Village to Delancey street is just crazy. Maybe run a few Zs on The J line to Jamaica but without the skip stop. It sure would’ve been helpful last night instead of waiting 20 minutes to go to Brooklyn from 111 street.
The G going to Forest Hills is a great idea since that train will be going to Brooklyn and that would be a nice replacement for the M.
The B needs to go back to running in the Bronx not just only for rush hour.
Hey Mystic. I love these line extension proposal videos.
The only reason why there are not that many trains running late night is because of the workers, I'm pretty sure more workers rather work during the day than night. And with not that many commuters, than it makes sense for less trains to run. I personally never rode on the subway that late so I can't speak for those who do and the problems they have, but I'm just saying I see why there would be less service. I will say tho that changing routes just for late night is kinda weird, again probably because of less labor available, so it'll be hard to adjust if anyone never rode late night and needs to
And also they will not have enough crews for those changes to happen, They have very limited crews at latenights that they can send out to operate on certain lines and the workers also needs rest and energy so those same workers can continue to operate the train on only sunny days and not late nights which would explain the 20 minutes service wait for the trains
I like that the MTA with expand the G train back to Forest hills 71 ave. I like how you explained it and I think you are correct mystictransit.
That’s not that good of an idea. Instead of running into the city center (Midtown), the (G) completely avoids it. Keep in mind that Midtown is where most people actually want to go.
@@MysticTransit what about Lower Mahattan ?
@@danieltransit7677 That’s not as important as Midtown
I have a car now but I remember those painful late nights years ago of trying to get home to the Dyre Ave line from all the way in Manhattan. Absolutely hated the idea of taking 3+ trains (up to 2 hours) to get there. Running the 5 even to 125th (preferably 42nd or Brooklyn Bridge) would be beautiful
It’s not just service changes that would help: more communication and consistency would be huge. When I was taking a journey at around 11 pm, I was expecting an N train to stop at 4th av-9th st since the sign says they stop there on late nights. For some reason, the D stopped there as per the sign, but the N continued running express. Then I took the D to 36th st, and got on the N, expecting it to serve all local stops after 59th st. It was only when the train was approaching 53rd st that I found out that the train would skip a few stops, one of which happened to be mine. I just got off at 59th st and walked the rest of the way.
Bottom line is that better late night service is possible, even without significant increases in frequency.
Awesome videos i agree with most the only thing i would extend the m to 96 st 2nd av and let the d train run 4th av express never made sense having it run local for only 4 stops
I like a lot of your plans for what you would do with late night service. Lines like the A, Q, 2 & 4 should remain express during the overnight hours with the C, R, 3 & 5 helping that much more. Like Metromaster said, it’ll take lots & lots of money to make even one of these recommendations become reality. In a perfect world, this would be great & helpful.
Your plans are interesting. I would like to see your proposed night service plan on a map.....I can't visualize it clearly....but I will do my homework and listen to your video while looking at the subway map 😀.
I've identified 4 key goals for overnight service, and your ideas largely cover them.
1. Allow for the same trips as during daytime hours, with no more than one additional transfer.
2. Elimination of "super local" routes.
3. 15 minute maximum headways at all stops.
4. Local service on the Manhattan trunk lines, and major outer borough lines like the 7, L, and Queens Boulevard should run 7-8 minute headways where possible.
There are a couple things I'd do differently. I think the 5 should go to Bowling Green to allow riders at Lower Manhattan stations a one seat ride to local stations on Lexington. I think the M should go to 96th Street 2nd Avenue to double up service on 6th Avenue and 2nd Avenue. I also think the N should run via the Manhattan Bridge at all times, but local on Broadway and 4th Avenue.
Did a 2 hour ride from Brooklyn college to 167th/ Grand concourse several years ago 😅. Not the most pleasant two hours of my life
Here’s how I would improve late night service:
1. Reroute the 2 to South Ferry, and extend the 5 to Flatbush Avenue. The 2 will continue to run Local in Manhattan. The 3 will run express in Manhattan and local in Brooklyn to New Lots Avenue, while the 5 runs express in both on Lexington and Eastern Parkway, towards Flatbush Avenue-Brooklyn College. The 4 is cut all the way back to Brooklyn Bridge-City Hall, and is to run local with the 6 along Lexington. No changes to the 1 or 6.
2. Extend the R to Forest Hills-71st Avenue, and reroute the Q to Canal Street. The R will run Local along 4th Avenue, Broadway, and Queens Boulevard to Forest Hills as it does during the day time, while both the E and F run express. The Q will run as an express Shuttle from 96th Street to Canal Street, and both the N and R will run via the Montague Street tunnel. The N will run local both along Broadway and 4th Avenue to Coney Island.
3. Having the B run Late Nights, from 168th Street to Coney Island. Since the Q is running as a Shuttle in Manhattan, the only line that can run via the Brighton branch would be the B. The B will replace the C and Q during late nights, running local along CPW and Brighton all the way down to Coney Island, but continue running express along 6th Avenue. The A will run express along CPW and 8th Avenue, but run local along Fulton Street. The D will run express along CPW, 6th Avenue, and 4th Avenue towards Coney Island. The E and F will run local along 8th and 6th Avenue respectively as usual, and the M will be extended towards Chambers Street.
Those are my plans on improving late night service.
BEAUTIFUL
👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏
The D train with its long waits, inaccurate countdown clocks and bs that happens at Bedford Park Blvd/205th St. If they aren't taking a train OOS they're swapping conductors. It's a nightmare...
For me honestly, I feel sometimes the conductors on the 2 and 4 lines get too tired sometimes from the trip during these late nights, would it be better for the 2 to run from Wakefield 241- Times Square 42 at and the 4 from Woodlawn- Brooklyn bridge and both via local, while the 3 could run from Harlem 148- new lots and the 5 from dyre- Flatbush during Late nights via 7th and Lexington express, I can also agree with making the C run via CP W local during late nights due to the A having a long route during late nights, while I don’t agree with extending the R to forest hills on late nights, if you wanna go to forest hills fast during late nights transfer to the F from Jay st metrotech and for local service transfer to F and then the E at W4 but great video I love it
"a few late night activities" lol, btw keep up the good work
Thanks, will do!
What we have now is fine so honestly there really isn’t much of a need to change the overnight service patterns just yet. However connections to bus service would still need work, and as a result, what could be done is holding lights at major bus-subway interchanges to let the bus hold at the stop for 5 minutes to allow train riders to make the connection. The buses would also run every 20 minutes as well.
No. Overnight headways are set at 20 minutes, and with work being performed overnight, the flagging elongates the length of time you have to spend waiting for a train. Couple that with the fact that you lose access to timed transfers as a result. A potential solution could be to have workers erect temporary, mobile barriers in their zones to separate themselves from trains, which reduces the need for trains to crawl past them. Waiting 20 minutes could easily become over 30 with the way they have things currently. I can't tell you how many times me and other passengers have missed the Q37 (runs once every 30 minutes) at Kew Gardens late at night because of this. Headways, construction work, and timed connections being missed all nerf the overnight service we have, which is why people sometimes abandon it all together.
I definitely would like to see express services operate in late nights and ectending the 5, G, M, R, etc.
They should just automate the metro like Singapore and run the same frequencies during the night, but with shorter trains to save electricity. And yes, definitely improve lighting and security in the stations!
Since I ride mostly the IRT division, I like the idea of the 2 and 4 trains running express late nights in which they operated many years ago that way up until the mid 90's. Since I live near the 5 Dyre Avenue line, that's another good idea of extending service via the local tracks to Brooklyn Bridge. The big question, will the MTA go for this plan?? Also, I agree that every line shouldn't operate with no more than a 15 minute headway late nights and at all times especially during construction.
It was during the NYC mid-1970's fiscal crisis that the A, 2, 4, N, and on other lines when the midnight hour express service runs were eliminated. Then the AA - Eighth Avenue local was removed, the #6 was reduced to basic Bronx shuttle route for about 19-20 years before the full line was restored, etc. The Dyre Avenue line always had a "midnight shuttle operation" from its first days of joining the Transit System in the mid-1950's. The Queens Blvd line (the E and F trains) were and remain the only lines with any midnight hour express service over the decades - the riders and local Queens politicians revolted when E and F trains were reduced to all local service - so now it's just the F-train as the express service. While the D-train runs express from 59th Street to 125th Street (and along Sixth Avenue) - the D-train was all local midnight hours whether it was on the Smith Street line, the Brighton line, or the West End line, and of course in the Bronx. For close to 19-20 years the #4 line was the only subway route running on the full length of the Lexington Avenue line, until Mayor Rudy G. wanted to give Manhattan east side riders a quicker way home on cold nights - it had nothing to do with riders in the Bronx needing or wanting faster ways to go about town.
@@michaelsherrell6389 thanks for the info!
3:50 Alternatively, since the (2) covers the Bronx, it can run local all the way down to South Ferry on late nights, while the (3) can take the express and go to Brooklyn to Flatbush, if you think about deinterlining. I’m not a fan of the whole short turning thing at Times Square. If you really think about it, how many trips are you getting on the late night from Brooklyn to the Bronx? If it’s that bad, they can take the (4) as it’s still a one seat ride straight from Brooklyn to the Bronx. This would add more frequency for Lower Manhattan and would count for more trips between Bronx-Manhattan via the (2) and Brooklyn-Manhattan via the (3).
4:50 I think the (5) should be extended from E 180th but I think it should instead go to 149th St so that passengers taking the (4) can switch onto either the (2) (5) or (6) to get to their final destination in the Bronx. But I do agree, the (4) should run express on Lexington Avenue, but if there is demand for (5) service in Manhattan during the late night, then I’m all for extending it to Brooklyn Bridge via Lexington Avenue Local, just to add more frequency on the line.
(7) (J) and (L) can all be solved by adding more frequencies. I think the (G) on late nights should be extended northward to Jamaica-179th St via all local and for the (E) to run express on QBL with the (F) and (G) running local. May sound controversial to make the (F) local since it goes to 3 boroughs, but keep in mind this will give riders an alternative to just take the (G) all the way from Brooklyn to Queens as it is much faster. There won’t be any delays with track switches also because the (F) and (G) run on separate intervals anyway on Culver.
5:50 I agree with this. Just make the (C) go to Lefferts honestly and make the (A) go express.
6:08 I think also having (B) service to/from Brighton Beach full time could help too just for a one seat ride from Brooklyn to Upper Manhattan, or at least to 2nd Ave via 6th Ave local since (D) service runs at a separate interval as the (B) anyway. Or if people need a one seat ride from Flatbush to the Bronx, that’s where the (B) comes in and just comes back as normal on late nights from Brighton Beach to 145th St.
If we deinterline them we can and the C to Lefferts by doing this we have this
A: Inwood to Far Rockaway
B: 145th St to Bay Ridge 95th St
C: Norwood to Lefferts Blvd
D: 168th to Coney Island (Sea Beach)
With that the A and C become 8th Ave and CPW Express, while the B and D lines handle the local service and during the Rush Hour the B would still get extended to Bedford Pk Blvd. This plan would deinterline all major junctions, and time the A and C merges better. And the E would have enough Trains to run local on its own until it gets extended from Jamaica Center to Rosedale Francis Lewis Blvd, also all the A Trains they terminated at Lefferts would now go to Far Rockaway.
5 to Bowling Green. Give it its own loop to turn
M to chambers street.... Seems possible because right now M trains are going to chambers street due to some construction
Good Video 👍🏾
Thanks!
Utilizing the 3,5,C,M and the R requires additional crews and trains during the night something the MTA cannot afford to do. The M and R to Queens Blvd in addition to the G need two or three branches on the Queens Blvd line and additional crews and trains to maintain it but that means the line would be undergo work due to the frequency of the service
The MTA also been experiencing short crew members lately, Them having 2 crews each on the trains will not be a lot at overnight because of there different schedule and working hours, That's why you wait 20 minutes for each trains sadly that's how it is for now. Also the operators and the conductors are human beings like us they have lives like us so they need a lot of breaks because of them operating on the trains 24 hours a day, That takes a lot of work and it's not easy to run a very big subway system with millions of people, Which overnight is a example of that so they could gain their energy back and work again to keep our subway system running everyday for riders to take them to their destination everyday
MTA's gotta be willing to pay though, and tbf, they should pay night time differentials (unlike Amtrak which puts noobs on the night shifts).
Maybe we should have some limited express service on all 5 Manhattan trunk lines. All stations should have services to some major area or hub!
The J Train at night is a living hell it’s over 40 mins per train and at Fulton st it’s packed especially on weekends
Not to mention the J train is ghetto as hell in many neighborhoods in Brooklyn/Queens at night, such as Richmond Hill, Cypress Hills, and East New York.
@@iNevaan Wrd and especially cypress hills as it’s right next to a graveyard like it’s bay parkway on the F
@@scytheyt4051 Fr
although i never take the train late at night i do live directly outside a train station that i can see from my bedroom window (prospect park B & Q + Botanical Shuttle) and it's very limited i usually see 2-4 Q trains and 2 shuttles every hour until 4am and with the B train not running (no overnight service also as i write this they aren't even running due to sunday schedule) its very inconvenient
The shuttle trains barely run overnight since it's late-night which people barely take those so they just wanna focus on the important trains that people do take overnight
The first thing that needs to be addressed is the lack of manpower. There's not enough people to run more trains and even then its going to require and upping in the amount of money spent on service which is not easy considering the amount of fare evasion currently taking place.
While more frequency would be great, I dunno how people who live near train tracks would feel having trains barreling down tracks every 15 minutes while your trying to sleep at 3am. I can see some of this working for the underground trains, but anymore above ground would create too much noise during the late night hours.
With some of the enhancements being made to our elevated lines, they could become much quieter, especially with the installation of CWR. Also, I don’t really have anything against those who live near elevated lines, but you can’t expect to live near one of those lines and NOT hear any trains passing. That applies to all hours of the day.
I have a few ideas myself for the A division on the
7th avenue line I would bring back 2 express service and completely eliminate the 3 train service to save money. For the Lexington Avenue line I would bring back the 4 express in Manhattan and Brooklyn and extend the 6 train to New Lots avenue and have no 5 train service. For the B Division on the 8th avenue line I would make all Far Rockaway A train service express and all Lefferts Blvd bound A train service local. On the Broadway line the only thing that I would do is bring back the Q express and leave everything else as is. On the Queens Blvd line I would only extend the G train to 179th street so the F train can run express the full route to 179th street and please tell me what I can improve on
Just a note. You do KNOW that during the midnight hours there isn't any Lefferts Blvd A train to Manhattan! Currently during the midnight hours there is a Lefferts Blvd shuttle train between Euclid Avenue and Lefferts Blvd! - that's it. As a plan to improve midnight hours frequency of service - your plans makes things worse. Right now its only the N and Q trains on the Manhattan Broadway line - removing the Q-train to the express leaves only the N-train as the only local service with it 20-minute frequencies of service. For decades riders on the Queens Blvd local stations complained about the lack of direct to/from Manhattan service - especially during the midnight hours (and on weekends before the R-train was extended there) - so you would return that fiasco?
Running down the 8 avenue local must take forever to get from Manhattan to Queens
2 and 3 trains should swap their southern terminals 3 trains can be 7th Avenue express to Flatbush Avenue and 2 train to south ferry via 7th Avenue local interline with the 1 train which improves late night service along 7th Avenue line. 4 trains Lexington Avenue express and eastern Parkway local to New lot's Avenue with the 5 and 6 being Lexington Local to Brooklyn Bridge City Hall. This is Helpful Great Idea To Improving Late Night service weekends 1 and 2 trains via 7th Avenue local to south ferry and 3 train 7th Avenue local to Flatbush Avenue Brooklyn College and 4 trains Lexington Avenue Express and Eastern Parkway local To New Lots Avenue and 5 trains Lexington Avenue Local and Eastern Parkway local To New Lots Avenue with the 8 trains being Lexington Avenue express and eastern Parkway express to crown heights utica Avenue all times and 6 trains to Brooklyn Bridge via Lexington Avenue Local to improve weekend service as well and f can be express and the g local via Culver during weekdays and f trains running local late nights and weekends along culver.Culver. we should also bring back the 9 via Broadway 7th Avenue express and Eastern Parkway local to Flatbush Avenue all times and downtown 9 trains running express from 157 street to chambers street during am peak rush hour and uptown 242nd Street vancourtland park bound 9 trains running express from chamber street to 96 street then continue to be express from 96th street to 157th street and then running local with interline with the 1 via local from 157th street to Van Cortlandt Park 242nd Street during PM RUSH HOUR Peak along the 1 being local from south ferry to 242nd Street and the 2 trains should be 7th Avenue local to Flatbush Avenue during weekdays we should also a the 8 so the 5 and 6 Lexington Avenue Local with both 4 and 8 running express late night 4 is Lexington Avenue Local to New lot's Avenue and 3 7th Avenue local to Flatbush Avenue. 5 and 6 Lexington Avenue Local 4 and 8 Lexington Avenue Express. 3 and 9 7th Avenue express 1 and 2 7th Avenue Local. This will improve NYC Subway Service.
You’re adding way too many trains just for late night service. I say if you want late night service right, two lines, one local and one express that has little to no interlinings.
@@aqua2poweros699 Prior to the mid-1970's fiscal crisis each basic trunk line in Manhattan had two services - one local, and one express. For example - there was the AA - Eighth Avenue local, and A - Eighth Avenue express which was local in Brooklyn and Queens to Lefferts Blvd, with A Round-Robin Rockaway Shuttle. There was the full length #1 local, and the full length #2 express - all local in the Bronx and all local in Brooklyn to New Lots Avenue. There was the Sixth Avenue line with the D-train local in the Bronx, express from 59th Street-125th Street and express along Sixth Avenue, and all local in Brooklyn along the Brighton line to Coney Island. The F-train was while express from Queens Plaza to Forest Hills - was other-wise all local in Manhattan, Brooklyn and Queens. The Broadway line had the RR all local route from Astoria, Queens through Manhattan to Bay Ridge Brooklyn. The N-train was express from 57th Street-7th Avenue to DeKalb Avenue, and then all local to Coney Island on the Fourth Avenue line. The Lexington Avenue had the full time #6 local, and the full #4 express to Flatbush Avenue. All of the other lines were either basic all local routes (7, L, GG, J, etc) or midnight hour shuttle operations (#3, #5, B, M, etc).
They Should Have G train Late Night Service At QBL and Have The E Train Run Express On QBL Along With The F train. That Could Help Improve Late Night Service.
For decades riders on the Queens Blvd local stations complained about the lack of direct to/from Manhattan service - especially during the midnight hours (and on weekends before the R-train was extended there) - so you would return that fiasco?
@@michaelsherrell6389 Then just have the "E" run local overnights with the "G." The "F" is much longer traveled route so it needs the "EXPRESS" along QBL 24/7. Not to mention starting in August 2023, the discounted LIRR fare between 34/Penn Station and Sutphin/Jamaica is now permanent and available 24/7. So overnight riders between Midtown and Jamaica especially those going to JFK also have that option with LIRR trains running at least close to every hour.
We need improved times for late night. It’s a mess.
Agreed.
With the trains running express overnight; how will it be possible for the MTA make the critical signal and track improvements. Most of their work is done during the overnight hours
How about having the IBX run late nights to alleviate 2-hour long trips through Manhattan? It can extend to the Bronx as well.
every 6-9 minutes for the ibx at night
20 minutes is actually good during late nights because time literally flies
U should make a vid about la metro rail
At this point, you should be the CEO of the Mta 🤣🤣
Geof Marshall really do be related to this video 💀
Maybe extend da Franklin Av Shuttle to Brighton Beach as an express or a local
It sounds great coming from Boston witch we don't have any service after 1230 am every nite.. But is the mta employees union,and I believe they also get a different in pay working the overnight shift and all that have to be approved and I am sure they don't have the cost to pay and we don't want to keep them in degative, and you also have to add in more police force witch is a cost and probably more employees. Witch more things well probably be cute just saying not being negative
I know they could put more trains at night and because it is a mess although I not from the us but I think MTA should improve their line like build palform barriers
how dose going to a15 minuet interval mess with night bus connections.
The audio is very low, can you increase the volume when you record ?
Atleast it’s not like the PATH in the midnight hours if you miss one you could wait up to 40 min 😐
Speaking of late night what’s your whole thoughts on the MTA cutting evening weekday service on lines like the 3 4 5 and B
Not a fan of it.
I hate it especially for the 5 train like literally around 8:30 to 9 the cut it short and make the 5 train go to bowling Green like why the 5 can do so much more then just be a back up train and when literally when rush hour is over the 5 just going to bowling Green I will just make the 5 going to Flatbush and have the 2 go from Wakefield 241st to South Ferry late nights and then make the 5 go from Dyre Av to Flatbush late night's and bot 2 and 5 will have a reasonable service make the 4 go to bowling Green or Brooklyn Bridge and go to Crown heights in the morning and evenings
3 trains go from Harlem 148 to New lots Av late nights and express during those late nights and make the 1 and 2 local and have the 2 run express during the morning and evening like the 5 can go to Flatbush during late nights instead of the 2 the 2 can just go to south ferry during late nights and go from there from 10:30 pm to 5 am but what be better is extended the nostrand ave line make the 2 and 5 go to kings highway and have a good terminal for both 2 and 5 lines the whole late night service makes no sense
Some of your ideas definitely make sense from a service perspective but the question is, are there enough customers to justify those changes?
Nice
Facts
I agree with most of your plans, especially the (M) to Chambers is very efficient to mainly stay attached to the (J) and not cross or leave the BMT Eastern Division. I have some more ideas below:
I would recommend swapping the E / F on QB, having the E go express and the F go local with the G. The reason for this is that the E goes to JFK airport, and most riders on the E are going to JFK airport, and need faster service.
Instead of having the (R) go to Forest Hills now, we already have the G so it's not needed. To still keep the Q as express in Manhattan and having the R service Manhattan, you can terminate the R at 96th St-2nd Av.
Plus, you have the G connection at 4th Av-9th St and F connection at Lex-63rd so it's fine.
Yet some services already run late-night service during the day....
😂 the (D) with its consistent 15 min gaps.
Three train terminates at 14th St.
It’s when people feel the most unsafe when it’s good to have extra patrol around
Even when it does feel safe, It's not 100% guarantee that crime won't happen, Crime still happens even when there's patrols around but will reduce crimes, Not get rid of them, You can still travel overnight but I suggest always look around your surroundings and do not have any headphones on, That's your best bet to feel safe when your not distracted at night
I seen you make videos in a while
It's OFFICIAL! Today the MTA has selected Light rail as the best option for the IBX. As the environmental review process continues in 2023.
Why would they add more frequent service for overnight hours when they've recently cut the frequency of service of several bus and subway lines during the day?
Not even sure who wants to ride the train at night. It’s barely safe during the day specially the two train, etc..
Simple bring back the 99 buses and limit 24/7 service to the EL lines and express lines
Why?
Why is everyone so scared to fan during late night
Nice video, but I kinda want to mention 4th Ave. Late night service in two words. It’s shit. I don’t like the fact the D and the N both run 4 Ave local with the R. 4 Ave needs express service as well. I say let the D run 4 Ave express from Atlantic Barclays to 36th st all times. It will allow more frequent N and R service and add less unnecessary interlining during late nights.
Also another thing you forgot to mention is Eastern Pkwy. I don’t get it why the 4 runs local with the 2. It’s dumb. I say leave the 4 Eastern Pkwy Exp, til Franklin Ave, and then add a new switch after the 2 cuts off into the Nostrand Ave Branch (Rogers Junction). This allows an express option for Eastern Pkwy and more interlining wiped off.
Interlining isn’t an issue when the trains operate every 20 minutes. If anything, deinterline efforts should be focused on daytime service.
This is a most interesting response. For decades on the Brooklyn Fourth Avenue line, the B-train was a midnight shuttle operation from 36th Street to Coney Island, with whatever went to Astoria as the full time 24/7/365 route - and depending upon the year - with the "other route" reduced to a shuttle, or reduced to a local, or in good times express in Manhattan. It was only with the switch to the D-train on Fourth Avenue (and midnight hours local) that consistent midnight hours travel existed. For 19-20 years on Lexington Avenue, the #4 was the sole midnight hour local service with #6 trains reduced to a basic Bronx shuttle. Like the Brooklyn residents - imagine just getting to the subway station and the only train running as just left the station, now it is a 20-minute wait for the next train, until you can reach the transfer point, where just as you arrive your "basic shuttle train" has just left - now it is another 20-minute wait for the next shuttle train. By having the trains available make all of the local stops the riders do not have to wait long periods of time in all kinds of weather just to travel about the city.
I hate to say it, but I think outright not having 24 hours service to allow for uniform maintenance might be better. I know it screws with night travelers, but without a fixed time for maintenance, this makes it harder to keep up the system. They can't work other than by disrupting service, and it makes service the rest of the time worse as you have to do maintenance by screwing with service during the weekends during the day. I've lived in places that close the metro for as little as a couple hours overnight and they have much better service at all times they are open with less random and unpredictable service disruptions due to being able to just pile up maintenance at these guaranteed down times.
It’s not really possible to regularly shut down the subway at night since there’s literally no room for all the trains to be stored without blocking the main lines. It’s not really designed for it and there’s really no room for yard expansion (ex: Corona Yard and wetlands). Perhaps they should do 24/7 shutdowns of certain lines for 3 months (signal modernizations) or 1 week (regular maintenance) with the other lines remaining open 24/7.
@@TheRailLeaguer If they know they will be closed, they can just arrange for trains to sit in stations they aren't doing that day and stagger things. They can't do the ENTIRE system all in one 2 hour closure anyway. They don't have to empty everything into yards, just make sure things aren't in the particular areas they are doing that day. If it's closed they aren't explaining to customers why their station is skipped or why there is a train right there and why can't you take me, or have to constantly stop working so the train can SLOWLY go past the workers (which frankly is worse than just closing the service because people aren't getting anywhere AND the work is constantly interrupted). This is how they do it in a lot of places; I don't know of anyplace that empties the entire system into yards every night (though I could be wrong).
@@void2258 That’s also not possible either as having trains sit in the stations will still block the main lines from being traversed by maintenance trains, especially if that line needs to be cleared to get to the closed line. All the other systems clear the entire fleet into the yards rather than have portions of the fleet sit in the stations needlessly blocking the path. Remember: during the temporary overnight shutdown during the pandemic (which really wasn’t needed) the trains continued to operate with no passengers).
The NYC Subway does not need the entire system to be closed for 2-5 hours each night for maintenance. Rather, what they should just do is close certain lines for 24 hours a day for about 7-10 days for the maintenance work, similar to the 53rd Street Tunnel. For the signal modernizations, go for 3 months. This would allow for the process to be sped up with minimal inconvenience to the riders. For example, during one such closure, the entire IND Eighth Avenue Line would be shut down south of 59th Street from Midnight of Saturday going into next week and lasting until 5 AM the following Monday. From there, the adjacent IRT Broadway-7th Avenue Line south of 96th Street would be shut down from Midnight of the next Saturday to 5 AM next Monday. All without needlessly closing the entire system during the overnight hours.
While there are folks who will bring up and explain the very important transit system related reasons why the subways should operate 24/7/365, I am going to talk about the New York City economy reasons why the subways need to operate 24/7/365. It is simple - NYC is a 24-hour city with plenty of activities going on at all hours for various groups of folks. Most times most folks talk about shutting down the subways from 12-midnight to 5am, while some suggest 1am to 5am. To just take one example, for New Years, hundreds or thousands of folks attend to watch the "ball drop." Now attempting to transport those crowds home with the subways shut down would be a huge task. During the pandemic when the subways were closed - alternative transportation had to be provided, even when many folks were staying home. The shut down of the subways negatively affected the economy of NYC, now that the city is attempting to recover from the pandemic - midnight hour shut downs of the subways would not help the city recover.
@@TheRailLeaguer Thank You. Agreed with your proposal 100%. Just expand fastback used mainly in Manhattan to the outer boroughs as well.
For instance instead of shutting down the #2 and #5 White Plains/Dyre Ave routes many weekend thru the year, just shut it down for 5-7 straight days if needed once a year. Meaning the portion between 241st and 180 and or Dyre and 180. White Plains Rd riders can use either nearby Metro North service or expand the BXM10 bus to run overnights during this shutdown as well. Although no doubt some riders would be impacted, I bet 90% of those #2 and #5 Bronx riders would rather a full 24/7 shutdown for 5-7 days once a year. Then a shutdown almost every weekend for 10 months out of the year.
The Q train runs all times via Manhattan Bridge, why not have the 3 run to 34th Street Penn Station instead of Times Square and we need Express service on the 4th Avenue line in Brooklyn because the D,N & R run local after 8pm along CPW the D runs Express late nights along Bway-7th Avenue line the 3 runs Express on the Lexington Avenue Line we could extend the 5 train to Bowling Green instead of Brooklyn Bridge City Hall, regarding the R train should stay as is because it connects with the Staten Island Ferry for those who work in Staten Island like myself who has a long commute to the west shore of Staten Island via the Ferry and the S40 bus or the B63,S53 and S40 buses or the R train to 86th St- Bay Ridge then the S53 bus then the S40 bus towards Amazon JFK8 Fulfillment Center
I’m starting to think that it’s to use that pocket track to relay the trains around.
I think the MBTA (At least to my knowledge) does this well. As far as I know, the T runs at the same frequency regardless of hours, ending service at midnight and starting back up at 1 am. Again, I don't know exactly if this is for sure, but I believe it is. Correct me if I'm wrong though.
I think the M train should go to Broad Street on late nights do you Agree or disagree.
I think one way to improve late night service is to divide 8 and 10 car trains in half. A 8 and 10 car train already has two conductors. By dividing the trains in half, you can double the frequency without the need for more operators, as each 4 and 5 car set would have one operator.
NO--OPTO is a bad idea especially in overcrowded Manhattan.
They had that before but it doesn’t work well with modern day ridership (aside from the short shuttle routes).
@@pbatommy Many more systems that are as crowded, or even more crowded than the NYC Subway, use OPTO. Crowding is not an excuse, when the technology exists to make it usable.
The conductors are the last set of eyes on the platforms, providing safety for riders as well as information to the riders when there are G.O.s and other changes in service. Many subway station platforms have obstacles and curves that disrupt the view from the head of the train. Too often train operators will close off the subway car that they are using so as to not be disturbed by some of the riders during the midnight hours. Long time policy and advice for the riders concerned about safety was to ride in the cars with the conductors - removing them is the MTA's way of saying that they do not care about the safety of their riders.
@@michaelsherrell6389 I'm a bit confused by your response. What about my idea gave you the impression that we would lose conductors?
I Live On the 6
Seriously why on earth would you want the A go Express on cpw like didn't you realize that the 59th Street junction is awful, are trying to create it the same way on weekends/weekday, and really it should be Express on Cpw is the B train, the a is fine on Cpw(this is my opinion but I can handle yours).
The Late Night Schedule is the Weekend Schedule but worse.
Late night is weird and confusing from what I saw
I think its even worse at weekends.
It is
Like literally every weekend lol
Here's what I would do late nights.
2 and 3 trains would run their full length into Brooklyn. By running trains express, the running time difference is only 5 minutes less than them running local. Let all three services run local in Manhattan.
4 trains would run only to Atlantic Avenue late nights, since the 2 and 3 would both service Brooklyn.
5 trains would run to Brooklyn Bridge. All services would be local. (the running time difference is 8 minutes)
The C should run from 207th Street to Lefferts Blvd late nights, Rockaway service should be the Round Robin A. with the D running local on CPW and 6th Avenue.
M trains should go to Forest Hills 24/7. R trains should serve 96th Street late nights.
J trains should run every 15 minutes.
Those would be my ideas
PBATommy Nope strongly disagree on almost all of your late night proposals. The MTA does not have boat loads of money to run overnight service. Daytime and Weekend service is more of a priority to improve. My replies.
1)There are tons of riders in Central and Eastern Brooklyn going to the East side even late at night. Keep the #4 as it in Brooklyn and Bronx via Local. Plus restore East Side Express in Manhattan.
1a)The #3 being extended to South Ferry via Local and #2 running express 24/7 in Manhattan is the way to go.
2)The Round Robin in the Rockaways was scrapped for a reason around 30 years ago. Plus the Rockaway park lines is very light ridership that even late night shuttle buses between Broad Channel and Beach 116th (along with Q53 bus)should be enough. Makes more sense to run the "A" Express in both Manhattan and Brooklyn with the "C" increased to overnight 24/7 service. Just have every other "A" branch run every 30 minutes to either Lefferts or Far Rockaway. You also forget JFK riders at Howard Beach who also want "A" service to Central and Downtown Brooklyn/Lower Manhattan as well.
3)Instead of the "R" train running to Forest Hills, 24/7, send it up to at least 42nd Street/Times Square or even 96 Street/2nd Avenue. Instead have the "G" extended to Forest Hills and run with the "E" overnights.
4)The "M" overnights only needs to run to either Essex or Chambers.
5)At very least as a compromise run the #5 overnights to at least 42nd-Grand Central. With full Bronx-Manhattan service running at least until 1230am every night.
6)If the "J" runs every 15 minutes, so should every other full length NYC subway route overnights. You sound selfish here PBA Tommy.
Once manpower is up to pre 2019 staffing of Conductors/Train Operators then these changes are possible. Also hate to say it but I think OPTO aka Open Person Train Operation mainly on shorter routes overnights such as the "M" should be used.
By the way PBA I been riding the NYC subways since the 1980's (even though I have lived in Upstate NY for over a decade)probably before you born so please do more research. Thank You.
@@americangiant1003 I started working for the TA in 1981, so I am around the same age, if not older than you. I know the system and how it's run from the inside.
@@pbatommy Just because you work for the MTA does not mean that all of your proposals are great ideas. Especially the #4 shortened overnights to Atlantic and the return of the “A” Rockaway Round Robin. Since 1992 or so, tons of rider’s especially those at Howard Beach use the “A” to get to/from Central/Downtown Brooklyn and Lower Manhattan? Why should they lose their 24/7 1-seat ride?
Ditto for # 4 line riders at both Franklin and Utica. Better idea if they have enough crews and money is just run both the #4 and #3 in Brooklyn 24/7 then your proposal of cutting the #4 line late nights at Atlantic.
Just saying. Feel free if you want to reply. Thanks
The 2 is the absolute WORST OFFENDER!
I think I disagree with this. In this age of CBTC work and out of control maintenance costs, it’s time for NY to face that 24/7 service is unrealistic.
If we can get maintenance costs down or make real CBTC progress, we will deliver much more value than the few people served by overnight trains.
We should have a night bus system instead, again like peer cities.
24/7 service is still realistic even with CBTC work and maintenance cost issues. If anything, it’s the reliance of piecemeal night and weekend work that’s the problem. What they should be doing is 24 hour closures of line segments for days or even months at a time so that they can never go back over there again for a long period of time. For example: one week, the IND Eighth Avenue Line is shut down between 168th Street and 59th Street-Columbus Circle from Midnight on Saturday going into next week and ending at 5 AM on the following Monday. This is a duration of 10 days. During these 10 days, the nearby IRT Broadway-7th Avenue Line will remain open 24/7 to allow customers who would normally use the 8th Avenue Line to continue the ride to Midtown via the 1 train. After the line reopens, the IRT Broadway-7th Avenue Line will also close between Midnight on the following Saturday going into the week after that and ending at 5 AM on Monday. During that time the 8th Avenue Line will remain open to customers to allow for 1 train riders to use the former instead between 168th Street and 59th Street. During these times, the rest of the system will remain open, depending on how many lines are being worked on. This type of work allows for the line to be broken into zones for the work, such as local-only or express-only service.
For the CBTC Signal modernizations, this time frame can extend to a period of 3 months to allow for more efficient testing of equipment. The work can also be broken into zones here, such as local-only shutdowns and express-only shutdowns.
@@TheRailLeaguer This is a good point and I think it's more correct than my point. Agreed!
I will still say that if other, innovative systems need a maintenance window every night latenight, we should consider that they know what they're doing more than we do.
We have an extensive road network and plenty of buses. A latenight extensive bus service makes more sense to me, maybe even *more* than it does in places like London. It could even have better frequency.
@@michaellemay4887 Well 20 minutes between trains is a considerable maintenance window though with my plans for longer 24 hour shutdowns there won’t really need to be doing much of the inspections at night, especially considering the setup time they need and the fact that the the subway yards don’t have the capacity to hold all of the trains at night and accommodate late night maintenance (example: 239th Street Yard, home of the 2 train, has 38 layup tracks for storage of 380 train cars, and some of the space is used for off-peak storage of 5 trains. The line is assigned ~415 cars).
In addition, there should also be a coordination of subway-bus transfers by installation of holding lights at many stations and increasing bus frequency to every 20 minutes as well.
Extending the (5) to Grand Central via Lexington Avenue Express
They really need to stop cutting off 5 service early on weeknights and weekends. It’s very inconvenient because that 2 train spends years in Manhattan even when it’s express and runs local in the Bronx. Especially if they will run the 4 local in Manhattan sometimes
@@calvinkendrick851 Honestly a better improvement for the 5 train would be to have the service run into Brooklyn during weekdays between 6 AM and Midnight. During overnights and weekends service would terminate at East 180th Street, which should make things better for passengers.
@@TheRailLeaguer I honestly think the same every weekend the 5 should just run to Flatbush av and my personally the 2 should run to south ferry on weekends from Wakefield 241st to south ferry 5 trains Dyre av to Flatbush this gives the 2 to have a good terminal at south ferry and 5 can go to Brooklyn for people who want to go to nostrand av line and the 5 will not end at bowling Green that will need to take a sharp turn making the train behind it have to delay and plus bowling Green is not a proper terminal but a terminal if the the 4 and 5 can not go to Brooklyn have the 3,4,5 go to Brooklyn late nights and weekends and the 2 go to Bronx and Manhattan late nights and weekends
Also to add the really thought the best solution was to make 2 and 5 trains to have a last stop on the nostrand like Flatbush the last stop? MTA needs people who actually have brains and knows what is better because look at Flatbush compared to broad street at lest for broad street after broad street they have 4 different sets of stocks to store trains but look at Flatbush they don't have to that at all they could have done something better to Flatbush if they were going to make it the last stop on the 2 and 5 I think in the near future they might have a plan for the 2 and 5 I hope that is the case
@@jimmyjj9410 That’s too impractical since it will inconvenience too many riders (as most Nostrand Avenue riders aren’t going to the East Side). Having the 2 go to South Ferry when there’s no work to be done on the Clark Street Tunnel also delays 1 train service as well. If anything, just have the 5 train operate into Brooklyn 7 days a week or just terminate 5 trains at East 180th Street during overnights and weekends.
I think that isn’t nessasary, make no subway service from 1-5 AM and instead use buses
That’s not really a permanent option for most areas considering that the subway wasn’t meant to be shut down on a regular basis, and everyone knows that.
@@TheRailLeaguer I just think that they should close it over night
@@broyofroyo1207 It’s still inefficient compared to the other option: rotational (near) 10-day shutdowns if certain line segments from midnight on Saturday going into next week until 5 AM the following Monday. For signal modernizations and other long term work, it’s a 3-month shutdown. These long shutdowns are a bit of a “one-and-done” method, taking multiple night and weekends worth of work and consolidating into a shorter period so that they won’t go back there again for maintenance work for a while. The rest of the system will remain open 24/7 to prevent negative impacts to late night riders and storage of subway cars.
@@TheRailLeaguer nah, close it overnight
@@broyofroyo1207 Why? It’s inefficient compared to what I’m proposing, whereas closing the whole system overnight (which is close to impossible) accomplishes nothing.