Im gonna borrow one of the anonymous quotes from that famous kotaku article that came out around when Fallout 76 launched because I think it holds true here (and yes Jakey used it too, i just think it needs repeating): "Bethesda is a big company that thinks its a small company, with a mentality of 'well this worked in the 90's so, we're just gonna keep doing it.'"
I'm glad Baldur's Gate 3 sold well, was praised by the general gaming community, and was awarded by the industry with accolades. Obviously, not every studio can be Larian or follow their dev cycle, but I'm happy there's a kind of shining example out there for the industry to see that kind of game is still viable today. I believe the only microtransaction you can get for it is just a cosmetic skin for your dice, and an artbook with soundtrack.
@@zv7ws Yep, my first run was 170 hours and I only just finished it last week. Like to be fair, I took a lot of breaks, and its only 170 hours because I had to re-do act 2 again because the first boss (not even Ketheric, the literal half-orc and her army) was so difficult because I didn't save Isobel (and it was before they patched the fight to make it slightly easier IIRC). But yeah, I paid $90AUD and I'm like "ya sure you don't want more money?".
As a project manager, this hits close to home. Navigating systems of bureaucracy is a burden I'm happy to take on of it frees up the creatives to do what they excel at.
A lot things about Starfield make sense in this context. The mechanics that were clearly abandoned but left remnants all over the game, the disjointed skill trees, the half-baked outpost system etc. It's unfortunate but hardly surprising that poor resource management was an issue. Frankly, the rushed ending slipped past me easily - the rest of the unfinished mechanics, not so much.
Been watching you guys for years across all your channels. Its great to still see you guys doing what I think is such great commentary on games, game culture and games media.
I agree with everything Lawrence is saying. I do, however, think we retroactively romanticize Cyberpunk. There's really no getting out of the fact that the game released in an abyssmal state on console, especially when the game was marketed as a PS4 and Xbox One game. The game is great, don't get me wrong. But it deserved all of that criticism at launch for coming out in a state like that. I do wish people were consistent in keeping their criticisms aimed at publishers and not developers, but I do think that sometimes this criticism at poor launch performance isn't unfounded. Jedi Survivor was a great example of this as well, though not to the level of Cyberpunk. 30 fps is acceptable, as long as the game has a reason for it (unlike Starfield) and they're upfront about it. When performance is inconsistent, then I think people are completely justified at being upset with publishers.
Amateurs. I've been gaming for 50 years and this is nothing. Back in my day, pixels were as big as canned hams and the delay of Yars Revenge led to the OPEC oil crisis. 😁
Well I'm happy with what I got for 70 bucks. The game isn't complete. But it's a solid foundation for infinite expansion. What starfield did lack was urgency, or characters I cared about much. The only person I kinda bonded with is Sam. He is a crap dad, but at least he knows and admits that he sucks at that. At least he was nice enough to be father to Lilians kid, who is clearly not his.
@@RandomWandrer if your happy with starfisld for 70$ you must be the easiest man to please, game wasn’t even worth 40 it’s got half the amount of content than it’s supposed to and even Skyrim had more at launch in 2011
@@Webby07 I think I would of been more happy with Starfield if I knew modders could remove the loading screen limits and make some massive Star Wars mod or something. But, as we know now removing those limits would require editing the very foundations of the Creation Engine making it impossible least without 100 loading screens. They may be able to fix the Floating Point/Loading Screen issues with ES6 and be much more mod friendly, but either way... that is a long ways away elsweyr.... lol Edit: I will also say Skyrim also had a rushed launch, you can really see that especially in the College of Winterhold Quest-line where it was supposed to be a LOT more to it then we got according to devs, but needed to have it out by the 11/11/11 release window. I believe the end of the main quest was also a bit of a rush job in Skyrim as well.
Doom Eternal did have DLC, and they sold a year 1 pass that gave you both DLCs for free if you bought the pass. But I get your point: the base game was amazing and a complete package that got live service support for free with earnable cosmetics. Then they released two dynamite expansions, which were paid, but were also complete packages.
Ancient Gods Part 1 is one of the hardest things I’ve played. UltraViolence truly kicked my ass, never did beat it on Nightmare (will probably try some day). Absolutely brutal but beating that final boss was so good. Took me forever as well, mainly because it kicked my ass
You guys mention Cyberpunk a lot but the hate actually was completely valid for console owners at the time. They were the primary demographic and the game just didn't function correctly to the point where it was pulled from storefronts. Funnily enough you also mentioned consumers not giving games recognition when the do it right. But I'll go ahead and use Cyberpunk again as a perfect example of people loving a good game executed well. When they fixed the game people gave it a second chance and now it's largely considered an amazing game. Which it totally deserves now that it's actually a finished game.
I stand by, if you like the game, play it and have fun. I appreciate Bruce and Lawrence being able to comport that sentiment into a respectable sounding way. I stopped caring too much about what people say about games when I played Pokemon Sword and Shield and loved them. Afterwards, I decided that I'll make the final decision on how I feel about a game after playing it.
Bruce and Laurence are basically my cornerstones when it comes to gaming industry culture and news. I can always count on the both of you for interesting, informed takes and commentary.
I've been watching Lawrence and Bruce since 2016. It's great to see them be able to express themselves more fully. I love seeing their takes. It's nice to have like, level headed voices. Even if I don't always agree (which I do a lot of the time) I respect em'. They've worked in the industry, and aren't BSing.
I agree that the community doesn't praise the good as much as it attacks the bad. So in that spirit... Man I love Pacific Drive! That game is great and more people should play it!
well, i'm not that knew. i know you guys for like 10 years and recently i found out you guys continued inside gaming with this new channel and immediately subscribed. your opinions were always interesting no matter what the community said. and still matters, i mean, you guys are genuine, it's way more relevant than people constantly seeking views anyhow. thank you for being yourselves and being respectble work colleagues i never had.
Speaking of Helldivers 2, I just bought access to the newest warbond for free. Not a dime spent after the initial purchase and yet I have all the warbond unlocked.
Absolutely lovely video. Felt very validating to hear Lawrence's take on Starfield being fine but not innovative at all, which is such a let down from a company that has all the means, resources and experience to do more/better. These videos have been fantastic and they're always very refreshing to see! Keep up the good work!!
Played the game, felt like the whole game was just side quests, there wasn’t much urgency or importance to the missions. Also there is a Side mission line - when you fight an alien invasion omg this was the best part!
Really makes me think about how Battlefront 2’s lifecycle went. It launched completely pay-to-win, all of the media outlets universally went nuts, than the devs actually overhauled the system in the game to address complaints. To me it’s one of the biggest wins in the history of games journalism, in regard to having a positive impact on the industry. I’m not sure everything would go the same way in today’s media landscape, where sensationalism is almost expected at this point with every release.
I've not been too involved the Dragon's Dogma 2 and Starfield controversy, but I think people can be mad at two things at once. I don't think its too bad of a guess to say most people complaining about Dragon's Dogma DLC bullshit are the same people who hate Starfield charging you for a DLC that doesn't have a release date yet. Most of them probably also think Dragons Dogma 2 is still a better game than Starfield.
The last microtransaction I spent money on was CS:GO keys in 2016. I'm beyond the point of complaining about them, and just like pre-ordering, I'm done trying to teach others why they shouldn't do it. TotalBiscuit engrained that into me, and I'll keep ignoring them for as long as humanely possible.
Microtransactions when done correctly, ideally which is "Hey, here's the full game. But here's some additional content that the team had been working on for a fair price. Buy it if you wanna support the creation of more content for the game later, or if you just wanna support us devs." Just like any other commodity, if its well made and priced fairly I will buy it.
Exactly , people will jump at your throat for saying that but I feel exactly the same. I haven’t purchased any dlc for this dd2 and probably won’t but I bought the ammo pendant or whatever it’s called for resident evil 4 and was pretty happy I did. Both games are full games and the micro transactions are 100% optional
I really disagree (but understand this is a matter of opinion) that kind of practice might be understandable for smaller studios where even the viability of them making future games is precarious, for larger studios profitability is a non issue. When it comes to single player games the focus of development time should be on creating a whole product and the dlc should be restricted to (smaller) expansions of that product. What makes people so angry is this used to be the way games were made but now it feels as if we're being sold incomplete products so the multi billion dollar publishers can squeeze out a few more bucks - removing features which they knew their fans would want for profit. To my knowledge no other medium does this. But would love to hear your thoughts on this ( a key example being fable 3 restricting black dye to be dlc only)
@@Chumpskey but it's not what's happening here tho : 1- the game is complete as it is whithout needing to purchase anything extra 2 - the game isn't made so you feel the need to purchase dlc to avoid grinding or get a better experience 3 - no feature is missing that you could get by dlc purchase
@@minibixxx yeah of course, I'm not talking about dragons dogma 2 here lol sorry if that wasn't obvious, just talking about dlc in single player games in general. I'm actually playing dragons dogma 2 and think it's really great, only the lack of metamorphosis items I thought was bullshit but they're fixing that in the next update
@@Chumpskey yes agreed, to be clear I think they messed up with the single playthrough thing (and optimization obviously) but I haven't suffered much from it as my PC is recent and the other fails seem to be addressed soon with patches/updates if we are to believe capcoms latest apologies
Not even 2011. Skyrim was already severely outdated when it came out. Fallout 3 was barely acceptable and borderline outdated when it came out in 2008. Look at other games that came out in 2008 BEFORE Fallout 3, like Metal Gear Solid 4, which looks about 5x better than Fallout 3 and plays about 5x better than Starfield does today.
You make an interesting point about large studios and the struggle to collaborate. I have long had this idea in my head that one great developer, given 5 years would probably make a better and more cohesive product than 5 great developers given 1 year, despite both groups having the same theoretical budget. I truly think that games (well actually all forms of entertainment) would be better if the time budget given to games was higher, with fewer, more focussed people working on them for that time, it would become much easier to manage and there would be less bureaucratic walls to move out the way. Each individual would also have a broader view of every area, allowing for deeper collaboration instead of so much segmentation.
I think having a single save is a side effect of the "main pawn" idea. Having multiple saves means a single player would have multiple main pawns. Which likely requires more work on the backend to support. I'm sure multiple saves could technically be done - it was just a conscious decision not to include it at launch. It may or may not come later (probably not, idk). Just something I haven't seen anyone talk about.
I'm okay with some microtransaction but it has to be an already quality product. Helldivers is a great example, sold for $40 and you can earn the Super Credits needed for the premium pass in game - but you can also spend the additional money to support the developers. Having both options be readily accessible feels good.
I’m “new” I missed the people I preferred to watch from RT they personalities I liked just kept leaving rt but I slowly found all the people I enjoyed (like you guys) scattered in the wind
I love the rant in this and clarity provided about what the goals are of your content. I would love to see that level of clear intent from all industries. It's especially important in media, but even on the developer side it would be awesome to see developers explain why they make some of their financially motivated decisions. I know it wont happen because for every person who grows their understanding there are 10 more that will just use it as ammunition to fuel the next hate storm and level their death-threat cannons at the individual devs who have nothing to do with those decisions. For the specific point about the "no microtransactions ever" POV: Are you also completely opposed to base game price increases? If developers are saying games cost more to make, they have to make more money to make up for the increased cost. Microtransactions let those with more disposable income pay more while others pay less, but the number could also go up if everyone pays more for the complete game. The only other option is driving development costs down but that just means more outsourcing and greater risks that the game flops because another company was happy to spend more and reach into your pocket more. If you're opposed to giving games any more money at all, I think that just creates a rift where devs want more money and consumers want to spend less money. Which is just human nature? I can't see developer behavior changing if this take gets dismissed as "of course people want everything for free and we obviously aren't going to do that."
I think the item you are missing here is that people and teams reject outside work due to stress within the company. If they are not being heard about their development's shortcomings, they will not risk taking on additional work.
I always have a backup save when playing any new game in case of corruption - having only one save point for Dragons Dogma 2 could potentially be disastrous results if that save file gets corrupted for any reason.
Imagine if Starfield game was instead you arrive in a territory with several worlds and introduced to factions, world building and power dynamics (and earth being lost) and then you prepare to go into unknown space and worlds to explore, create settlements and new ventures etc like a pioneer and explorer in olden days. That infinitely a better game and professionals didn’t think that
Bought dragons dogma 2 just so I could tell people "actually, that's not true" anytime they brought up the ragebait. I didn't even want DD2, I have too many games already, but I've put 20+ hours in over the weekend and can't stop playing thanks to your reporting.
I rarely disagree with Lawrence's opinions on things but I always appreciate how when he expresses his opinions its very obvious how much thought as gone into them and he is able to back his opinions up. It's an easy in for discussion rather than dismissal.
Having worked in games for a decade now, it's a real hard balance between "Let's just make stuff" and "We have a budget and a deadline and we WILL run out of money if we don't stop adding mad shit" My company works for hire, helping big studios making games, and we see such varied levels of experience with project management. Some studios don't have "producers" at al (AKA the people who make sure stuff is on track!), and that's terrifying. They just keep working on the game until it's done, which is honestly how we'd all do things in an ideal world, but in reality... you're not a small indie any more. It's not your money you're burning At the other end, I've seen studios who are sticking to their "script" and never deviating and you can just tell the game is going to be bland as hell when it comes out. Any discussions about "Should we try this?" are shot down because the game's already been decided on, and any changes would affect the schedule. Ick Honestly, GOOD producers are the key. People who can keep track of timelines, but allow for the flexibility to change stuff up. I'm starting to realize that our talented producers often bring the most benefit to the struggling games we work with
I didn't know the limitations with the microtransactions on DD2. That makes the rage even more ridiculous, to me. At least compared to other open world games that sell those things *cough Ubisoft *cough*. I've been playing and didn't see them advertised and only saw them in images posted by people. So like....not really bothered. Performance is really bad for me, though. And the good thing is that can be fixed (hopefully...). Love the coverage and messaging here. Good job, guys!
Love you guys, your videos have fantastic insights. Not a huge YT comment guy, so don’t forget there’s a lot of us who appreciate your levelheaded, pragmatic coverage
I got burnt on Elder Srolls IV: Oblivion's horse armor years ago... anyone remember that?! I have never bought a microtransaction ever again and never will. Also i disagree with Lawrence's hyperbole - Starfield is a fun game and i really enjoyed it, but it definitely was overhyped. (thats the part i do agree on) I'm looking forward to buying Dragons Dogma 2 in the next few days- i liked the first one but we'll see how this one goes. I'm sure it will be a generic RPG like the last one.
While I may not always agree with you Lawrence, your continued willingness to have the tough talks and stay true to your beliefs despite pushback or the easy out of pandering for views is what makes you and Bruce kickass journalists, and it’s what will always keep me coming back🫡
The Dragon's Dogma episode encouraged me to get the game (knowing my PC is good enough to handle it). After reading all the negativity around it, I love that I can rely on this channel to give me a fair and diplomatic opinion. Steam reviews and mainstream media just aren't reliable unfortunately.
I never relied on Steam reviews. I learned long ago that people don't always review a thing in a way that I find useful. "The food was great and the best of this thing I've had in my life. It awoke something in me that is lifechanging, and led me on a path of greatness that I will never forget. However there were no paper towels in the bathroom. 1 out of 5 stars". Not everyone has a good or solid opinion. Too many people feel comfortable review bombing a product with zerrrrrrrroooooo personal experience and instead doing for malicious reason or what they think is for the cause without taking the time to understand what is going on. It's fine to generally check out reception but take the time to understand the why. READ those reviews and do your researching instead of blindly following.
It does seem increasingly difficult for people to celebrate each other in general these days, which is lamentable. More positivity, try and leave the world a little nicer form your being in it. The pay it forward attitude is where we should all strive to be everyday where we can!
Starfield is a popular punching bag right now, which I don't get. The game is fine. There's certain design decisions that I feel didn't come off (most of the space sim aspects), but it's still a meaty singleplayer RPG that you can get at least 30 hours of good fun out of. This is a case of certain big UA-camrs like NakeyJakey influencing the discourse massively. The discourse surrounding the game was overall positive in the first couple of weeks of launch, then some popular UA-camrs released some well-articulated takedowns of the game and that shifted the conversation a lot. I call this the Dark Souls 2 effect.
My only criticism with DD2 is that that you can tell that DD2 is not CPU optimized by checking the rtss stats the usage on each of the cores of my cpu (ryzen 7 5800x) are all being underutilized in the cities.
As far as microtransactioncs go, I don’t have a problem if it’s say for a skin or a cosmetic or a guaranteed essential item(as long as it’s not a ridiculous price).
Overall, it is a good game. That's why it got pretty good reviews at first. I feel like a lot of people were pissed because of expectations. I liked it a lot, but I just don't care for Bethesda RPGs like I used to. I think a lot of people need to tell themselves that as well.
Imy knee jerk reaction to the dragons dogma drama, was to look into it myself, and within 30 seconds, i didn't understand why everyonewas making a big deal out of it. I thought the MTs were stupid. But this owas the epitome of "just dont buy it."
Dude you are preaching to the choir here! I am so sick of hearing about a new gaming controversy every week! And it's not just AAA games. It's insane! It feels like every game I have played in the past year has had some weird mini controversy that got blew way out of proportion and turned their respective social media outlets into a war zone. Just recently there is that hole epic game shadow update thing for Tomb Raider Remastered. There was a controversy related to Pacific Drive because a bunch of people didn't like how the save system was. It's getting really fucking dumb out here.
500 people made this game? I think Lawrence is onto something with saying a lot probably didn't make it in the game. Them being silo'd probably meant all this various teams made amazing things to go into the game but then toward the end when it needed to be put together coherently, they must have just ran out of time. I made the mistake or replaying Cyberpunk right before Starfield came out, and I could not finish Starfield. The level of detail in Cyberpunk puts Starfield to shame. After a few hours of SF I got bored and moved on to other games. But I also didn't pay $70 for it and would have been upset if I had.
I appreciate you coming back on the Dragon's Dogma episode and the reactions. I personally agree with a lot of your stances, but even I found you both a bit "unreasonable" with the performance issues and the microtransation discourse. If you even experienced those performance issues with your rigs, imagine how people with cheaper pc's experienced it... That a game this ambitious uses that much power, I can get, but it feels like there is still room for improvement, and some criticism of the performance is valid (even though I do agree some of it is also inconsistent with how other games perform). As for the microtransaction, curious to see/hear you future podcast about it, but for me it's like Bruce, I don't reject it entirely, but it should be "earned" by the game. I chose to spend money on Helldivers 2 while I didn't spend a dime on Overwatch 2 because of how disgusting those unlock conditions and prices are... But while I do agree with you on "praise the people doing it right, instead of bashing those doing it wrong", I think it's already the case. Baldur's Gate 3 was immensely praised by the community for doing it right. Same for the Witcher 3 when the 2 DLC's came out at the time, and even Helldivers 2 now for pricing stuff reasonably without feeling like they're gatekeeping stuff from the main game. Just because the pissed off people are loud doesn't mean that there aren't people seeing the positive in all this!
If Starfield had a design document, there wouldn't need to be consultation via multiple producers in order to place a chair of all things. It wouldn't have solved all of it's problems, but the game would have been more complete.
Design documents aren't that important in any ways. They're not like scripts/production plans that you might find in movies. Also that silo effect is really common in both successful and unsuccessful games. It's pretty much inevitable over a certain size of team (usually 30-40ish people). Whether a game is then successful entirely boils down to how silos are managed and whether there's strong game direction/pillars to guide it.
Been saying it since almost the beginning, Starfield is a Tech Demo with a barebones story and game play loop shoved in because they needed to sell something. That's how you get 50,000 potatoes acting independently in a zero gravity environment but no climax for either the story or the gameplay. Feature-creep bloated the engine to maximum possibility, but they don't sell game engines, they sell games. Rush rush rush, panic panic panic, release.
I’d be curious about what the guys think about a situation like moist critikals where dragons dogma 2 is completely unplayable, even if its only the case for a small amount of
My only problem with Dragons Dogma 2 is how dumb the pawns are. They fall off cliffs every 5 minutes or a large fight is me reviving pawns the entire fight
so with these silo effects can people in charge not just tell their workers to collaborate or be replaced? they seem to replace for anything these days, however I might not have interpreted this right and have no idea what I am talking about
Im gonna borrow one of the anonymous quotes from that famous kotaku article that came out around when Fallout 76 launched because I think it holds true here (and yes Jakey used it too, i just think it needs repeating):
"Bethesda is a big company that thinks its a small company, with a mentality of 'well this worked in the 90's so, we're just gonna keep doing it.'"
That makes them sound pretty damn endearing tbh
@@yukisohma19 lol “dangerously”. You gamers are so dramatic
I'm in actual awe that Bruce's Titanfall shirt has survived since the original inside gaming days at machinima.
I'm glad Baldur's Gate 3 sold well, was praised by the general gaming community, and was awarded by the industry with accolades. Obviously, not every studio can be Larian or follow their dev cycle, but I'm happy there's a kind of shining example out there for the industry to see that kind of game is still viable today. I believe the only microtransaction you can get for it is just a cosmetic skin for your dice, and an artbook with soundtrack.
I paid 60 bucks for that game and I still feel like I ripped the devs off. Took me 130h for my first run.
@@zv7ws Yep, my first run was 170 hours and I only just finished it last week. Like to be fair, I took a lot of breaks, and its only 170 hours because I had to re-do act 2 again because the first boss (not even Ketheric, the literal half-orc and her army) was so difficult because I didn't save Isobel (and it was before they patched the fight to make it slightly easier IIRC). But yeah, I paid $90AUD and I'm like "ya sure you don't want more money?".
i’ve certainly put at least 250 in over the like 4 characters i have started.. it truly just has that ‘it’ factor to bring me back.
As a project manager, this hits close to home. Navigating systems of bureaucracy is a burden I'm happy to take on of it frees up the creatives to do what they excel at.
A lot things about Starfield make sense in this context. The mechanics that were clearly abandoned but left remnants all over the game, the disjointed skill trees, the half-baked outpost system etc. It's unfortunate but hardly surprising that poor resource management was an issue. Frankly, the rushed ending slipped past me easily - the rest of the unfinished mechanics, not so much.
In such uncertain times can we all just remember that Ska came before Reggae?
I was walking down the street one daa-aeyy
yes but did you know that Ska came before Reggae?
Untrue mothers be aware was reggae and that was before ska get your facts right
*windows blue screen*
Been watching you guys for years across all your channels. Its great to still see you guys doing what I think is such great commentary on games, game culture and games media.
I agree with everything Lawrence is saying. I do, however, think we retroactively romanticize Cyberpunk. There's really no getting out of the fact that the game released in an abyssmal state on console, especially when the game was marketed as a PS4 and Xbox One game. The game is great, don't get me wrong. But it deserved all of that criticism at launch for coming out in a state like that. I do wish people were consistent in keeping their criticisms aimed at publishers and not developers, but I do think that sometimes this criticism at poor launch performance isn't unfounded. Jedi Survivor was a great example of this as well, though not to the level of Cyberpunk. 30 fps is acceptable, as long as the game has a reason for it (unlike Starfield) and they're upfront about it. When performance is inconsistent, then I think people are completely justified at being upset with publishers.
Amateurs. I've been gaming for 50 years and this is nothing. Back in my day, pixels were as big as canned hams and the delay of Yars Revenge led to the OPEC oil crisis. 😁
Bethesda NOT FINISHING SOMETHING? I can't believe that 👀
took em 10 years to pump out that trash starfield and even modders gave up on it lmao
needs land vehilces
Well I'm happy with what I got for 70 bucks.
The game isn't complete. But it's a solid foundation for infinite expansion.
What starfield did lack was urgency, or characters I cared about much. The only person I kinda bonded with is Sam. He is a crap dad, but at least he knows and admits that he sucks at that.
At least he was nice enough to be father to Lilians kid, who is clearly not his.
@@RandomWandrer if your happy with starfisld for 70$ you must be the easiest man to please, game wasn’t even worth 40 it’s got half the amount of content than it’s supposed to and even Skyrim had more at launch in 2011
@@Webby07 I think I would of been more happy with Starfield if I knew modders could remove the loading screen limits and make some massive Star Wars mod or something. But, as we know now removing those limits would require editing the very foundations of the Creation Engine making it impossible least without 100 loading screens. They may be able to fix the Floating Point/Loading Screen issues with ES6 and be much more mod friendly, but either way... that is a long ways away elsweyr.... lol
Edit: I will also say Skyrim also had a rushed launch, you can really see that especially in the College of Winterhold Quest-line where it was supposed to be a LOT more to it then we got according to devs, but needed to have it out by the 11/11/11 release window. I believe the end of the main quest was also a bit of a rush job in Skyrim as well.
Doom Eternal did have DLC, and they sold a year 1 pass that gave you both DLCs for free if you bought the pass. But I get your point: the base game was amazing and a complete package that got live service support for free with earnable cosmetics. Then they released two dynamite expansions, which were paid, but were also complete packages.
I double checked that and maybe he meant the first one because the first only had the soundtrack you could buy but 2016 didn't have DLC
@@valerintgaming 2016 had free multiplayer expansions but that's all.
Ancient Gods Part 1 is one of the hardest things I’ve played. UltraViolence truly kicked my ass, never did beat it on Nightmare (will probably try some day). Absolutely brutal but beating that final boss was so good. Took me forever as well, mainly because it kicked my ass
You guys mention Cyberpunk a lot but the hate actually was completely valid for console owners at the time. They were the primary demographic and the game just didn't function correctly to the point where it was pulled from storefronts. Funnily enough you also mentioned consumers not giving games recognition when the do it right. But I'll go ahead and use Cyberpunk again as a perfect example of people loving a good game executed well. When they fixed the game people gave it a second chance and now it's largely considered an amazing game. Which it totally deserves now that it's actually a finished game.
I stand by, if you like the game, play it and have fun. I appreciate Bruce and Lawrence being able to comport that sentiment into a respectable sounding way. I stopped caring too much about what people say about games when I played Pokemon Sword and Shield and loved them. Afterwards, I decided that I'll make the final decision on how I feel about a game after playing it.
Lawrence that was a great rant at the end. Quality stuff
Followed you guys since the Machinima days for stuff exactly like this. Really good points, clearly articulated, just good game chats tbh.
Bruce and Laurence are basically my cornerstones when it comes to gaming industry culture and news. I can always count on the both of you for interesting, informed takes and commentary.
I've been watching Lawrence and Bruce since 2016. It's great to see them be able to express themselves more fully. I love seeing their takes. It's nice to have like, level headed voices.
Even if I don't always agree (which I do a lot of the time) I respect em'. They've worked in the industry, and aren't BSing.
You guys continue to be, one of the only, voices of reason in this space.
I legitimately forgot about the Shattered Space DLC and I preordered Starfield. Jesus, they really got a lot of people with that one.
I agree that the community doesn't praise the good as much as it attacks the bad. So in that spirit... Man I love Pacific Drive! That game is great and more people should play it!
Bethesda has to be so embarrassed that a little company like Hello games has out done them
well, i'm not that knew. i know you guys for like 10 years and recently i found out you guys continued inside gaming with this new channel and immediately subscribed. your opinions were always interesting no matter what the community said. and still matters, i mean, you guys are genuine, it's way more relevant than people constantly seeking views anyhow. thank you for being yourselves and being respectble work colleagues i never had.
Been a fan since Machinima and I’m glad to see you guys haven’t change.
i work in vr development and not having design docs for the work you are making is absolutely insane
Speaking of Helldivers 2, I just bought access to the newest warbond for free. Not a dime spent after the initial purchase and yet I have all the warbond unlocked.
Absolutely lovely video. Felt very validating to hear Lawrence's take on Starfield being fine but not innovative at all, which is such a let down from a company that has all the means, resources and experience to do more/better. These videos have been fantastic and they're always very refreshing to see! Keep up the good work!!
Played the game, felt like the whole game was just side quests, there wasn’t much urgency or importance to the missions. Also there is a Side mission line - when you fight an alien invasion omg this was the best part!
Really makes me think about how Battlefront 2’s lifecycle went. It launched completely pay-to-win, all of the media outlets universally went nuts, than the devs actually overhauled the system in the game to address complaints. To me it’s one of the biggest wins in the history of games journalism, in regard to having a positive impact on the industry. I’m not sure everything would go the same way in today’s media landscape, where sensationalism is almost expected at this point with every release.
Honestly sick of the misinformation of "there was no design docs for Starfield" and I'm glad you addressed it. But you coulda stomped that harder.
I want shorter games that look worse made by people working less hours and being paid more, and I am not joking.
Been watching you guys from way back in your Machinima days, and have always loved your takes on things! Keep up the good work, don't go changing
I'm still to this day he who will not be named was a crazed sexual deviant, sucks we'll never get the whole crew back together.
Starfield is like someone's memory of a game, and that memory is fading.
Even on the rare occasions that I disagree with you guys I've always found your arguments grounded in good logic and analysis. Cheers yall.
Bruce is now the internet gamer dad
I've not been too involved the Dragon's Dogma 2 and Starfield controversy, but I think people can be mad at two things at once. I don't think its too bad of a guess to say most people complaining about Dragon's Dogma DLC bullshit are the same people who hate Starfield charging you for a DLC that doesn't have a release date yet. Most of them probably also think Dragons Dogma 2 is still a better game than Starfield.
The last microtransaction I spent money on was CS:GO keys in 2016. I'm beyond the point of complaining about them, and just like pre-ordering, I'm done trying to teach others why they shouldn't do it. TotalBiscuit engrained that into me, and I'll keep ignoring them for as long as humanely possible.
Microtransactions when done correctly, ideally which is "Hey, here's the full game. But here's some additional content that the team had been working on for a fair price. Buy it if you wanna support the creation of more content for the game later, or if you just wanna support us devs." Just like any other commodity, if its well made and priced fairly I will buy it.
Exactly , people will jump at your throat for saying that but I feel exactly the same. I haven’t purchased any dlc for this dd2 and probably won’t but I bought the ammo pendant or whatever it’s called for resident evil 4 and was pretty happy I did. Both games are full games and the micro transactions are 100% optional
I really disagree (but understand this is a matter of opinion) that kind of practice might be understandable for smaller studios where even the viability of them making future games is precarious, for larger studios profitability is a non issue. When it comes to single player games the focus of development time should be on creating a whole product and the dlc should be restricted to (smaller) expansions of that product. What makes people so angry is this used to be the way games were made but now it feels as if we're being sold incomplete products so the multi billion dollar publishers can squeeze out a few more bucks - removing features which they knew their fans would want for profit. To my knowledge no other medium does this. But would love to hear your thoughts on this ( a key example being fable 3 restricting black dye to be dlc only)
@@Chumpskey but it's not what's happening here tho :
1- the game is complete as it is whithout needing to purchase anything extra
2 - the game isn't made so you feel the need to purchase dlc to avoid grinding or get a better experience
3 - no feature is missing that you could get by dlc purchase
@@minibixxx yeah of course, I'm not talking about dragons dogma 2 here lol sorry if that wasn't obvious, just talking about dlc in single player games in general. I'm actually playing dragons dogma 2 and think it's really great, only the lack of metamorphosis items I thought was bullshit but they're fixing that in the next update
@@Chumpskey yes agreed, to be clear I think they messed up with the single playthrough thing (and optimization obviously) but I haven't suffered much from it as my PC is recent and the other fails seem to be addressed soon with patches/updates if we are to believe capcoms latest apologies
Thank you for the message. My goodness people.
😂😂😂 yea wasnt this Todds dream game? Dawg they consistently show us yet no one listens. They make good games for 2011😂😂😂
Not even 2011.
Skyrim was already severely outdated when it came out.
Fallout 3 was barely acceptable and borderline outdated when it came out in 2008.
Look at other games that came out in 2008 BEFORE Fallout 3, like Metal Gear Solid 4, which looks about 5x better than Fallout 3 and plays about 5x better than Starfield does today.
I guess it was Todd’s dream to not develop an ending until the late minute
@@ieyke yeah fallout new Vegas is garbage barely even playable so surprised people like that game glad us geniuses are in here
@@Dylan-fu6rz 🤣🤣🤣🤣 i love nv dawg
@@Dylan-fu6rz
Only total re tar ds like you hate New Vegas.
You make an interesting point about large studios and the struggle to collaborate. I have long had this idea in my head that one great developer, given 5 years would probably make a better and more cohesive product than 5 great developers given 1 year, despite both groups having the same theoretical budget.
I truly think that games (well actually all forms of entertainment) would be better if the time budget given to games was higher, with fewer, more focussed people working on them for that time, it would become much easier to manage and there would be less bureaucratic walls to move out the way. Each individual would also have a broader view of every area, allowing for deeper collaboration instead of so much segmentation.
I think having a single save is a side effect of the "main pawn" idea. Having multiple saves means a single player would have multiple main pawns. Which likely requires more work on the backend to support. I'm sure multiple saves could technically be done - it was just a conscious decision not to include it at launch. It may or may not come later (probably not, idk). Just something I haven't seen anyone talk about.
I'm okay with some microtransaction but it has to be an already quality product. Helldivers is a great example, sold for $40 and you can earn the Super Credits needed for the premium pass in game - but you can also spend the additional money to support the developers. Having both options be readily accessible feels good.
I’m “new” I missed the people I preferred to watch from RT they personalities I liked just kept leaving rt but I slowly found all the people I enjoyed (like you guys) scattered in the wind
We can only support so much
Well said as always guys 🙌
I love the rant in this and clarity provided about what the goals are of your content. I would love to see that level of clear intent from all industries. It's especially important in media, but even on the developer side it would be awesome to see developers explain why they make some of their financially motivated decisions. I know it wont happen because for every person who grows their understanding there are 10 more that will just use it as ammunition to fuel the next hate storm and level their death-threat cannons at the individual devs who have nothing to do with those decisions.
For the specific point about the "no microtransactions ever" POV: Are you also completely opposed to base game price increases? If developers are saying games cost more to make, they have to make more money to make up for the increased cost. Microtransactions let those with more disposable income pay more while others pay less, but the number could also go up if everyone pays more for the complete game. The only other option is driving development costs down but that just means more outsourcing and greater risks that the game flops because another company was happy to spend more and reach into your pocket more. If you're opposed to giving games any more money at all, I think that just creates a rift where devs want more money and consumers want to spend less money. Which is just human nature? I can't see developer behavior changing if this take gets dismissed as "of course people want everything for free and we obviously aren't going to do that."
I wouldn't know...never made it to the end...got bored...
There was DLC expansions for Doom Eternal but maybe Lawdog was meaning MTXs like skins or weapons or something
Eternal had weapon and skins packs too tho. You could buy previous seasonal skins if you missed them
I think the item you are missing here is that people and teams reject outside work due to stress within the company. If they are not being heard about their development's shortcomings, they will not risk taking on additional work.
I always have a backup save when playing any new game in case of corruption - having only one save point for Dragons Dogma 2 could potentially be disastrous results if that save file gets corrupted for any reason.
Imagine if Starfield game was instead you arrive in a territory with several worlds and introduced to factions, world building and power dynamics (and earth being lost) and then you prepare to go into unknown space and worlds to explore, create settlements and new ventures etc like a pioneer and explorer in olden days. That infinitely a better game and professionals didn’t think that
the reality tv - ification of all media, and post-medium content would be a stellar deepdive.
Hearing Lawrence rant has got to be one of my favorite things.
Bought dragons dogma 2 just so I could tell people "actually, that's not true" anytime they brought up the ragebait. I didn't even want DD2, I have too many games already, but I've put 20+ hours in over the weekend and can't stop playing thanks to your reporting.
I rarely disagree with Lawrence's opinions on things but I always appreciate how when he expresses his opinions its very obvious how much thought as gone into them and he is able to back his opinions up. It's an easy in for discussion rather than dismissal.
Ill continue to use you boys as a very solid and grounded opinion on games and the surrounding media. Yall make alot of sense.
Having worked in games for a decade now, it's a real hard balance between "Let's just make stuff" and "We have a budget and a deadline and we WILL run out of money if we don't stop adding mad shit"
My company works for hire, helping big studios making games, and we see such varied levels of experience with project management. Some studios don't have "producers" at al (AKA the people who make sure stuff is on track!), and that's terrifying. They just keep working on the game until it's done, which is honestly how we'd all do things in an ideal world, but in reality... you're not a small indie any more. It's not your money you're burning
At the other end, I've seen studios who are sticking to their "script" and never deviating and you can just tell the game is going to be bland as hell when it comes out. Any discussions about "Should we try this?" are shot down because the game's already been decided on, and any changes would affect the schedule. Ick
Honestly, GOOD producers are the key. People who can keep track of timelines, but allow for the flexibility to change stuff up. I'm starting to realize that our talented producers often bring the most benefit to the struggling games we work with
I didn't know the limitations with the microtransactions on DD2. That makes the rage even more ridiculous, to me. At least compared to other open world games that sell those things *cough Ubisoft *cough*. I've been playing and didn't see them advertised and only saw them in images posted by people. So like....not really bothered. Performance is really bad for me, though. And the good thing is that can be fixed (hopefully...).
Love the coverage and messaging here. Good job, guys!
Many good points made
Love you guys, your videos have fantastic insights. Not a huge YT comment guy, so don’t forget there’s a lot of us who appreciate your levelheaded, pragmatic coverage
I got burnt on Elder Srolls IV: Oblivion's horse armor years ago... anyone remember that?! I have never bought a microtransaction ever again and never will.
Also i disagree with Lawrence's hyperbole - Starfield is a fun game and i really enjoyed it, but it definitely was overhyped. (thats the part i do agree on)
I'm looking forward to buying Dragons Dogma 2 in the next few days- i liked the first one but we'll see how this one goes. I'm sure it will be a generic RPG like the last one.
Feels like people just hate whenever the Gamer Hive Mind tells them to hate.
Only dead fish follow the stream, learn to think critically.
While I may not always agree with you Lawrence, your continued willingness to have the tough talks and stay true to your beliefs despite pushback or the easy out of pandering for views is what makes you and Bruce kickass journalists, and it’s what will always keep me coming back🫡
The Dragon's Dogma episode encouraged me to get the game (knowing my PC is good enough to handle it). After reading all the negativity around it, I love that I can rely on this channel to give me a fair and diplomatic opinion. Steam reviews and mainstream media just aren't reliable unfortunately.
I never relied on Steam reviews. I learned long ago that people don't always review a thing in a way that I find useful. "The food was great and the best of this thing I've had in my life. It awoke something in me that is lifechanging, and led me on a path of greatness that I will never forget. However there were no paper towels in the bathroom. 1 out of 5 stars".
Not everyone has a good or solid opinion. Too many people feel comfortable review bombing a product with zerrrrrrrroooooo personal experience and instead doing for malicious reason or what they think is for the cause without taking the time to understand what is going on. It's fine to generally check out reception but take the time to understand the why. READ those reviews and do your researching instead of blindly following.
It does seem increasingly difficult for people to celebrate each other in general these days, which is lamentable. More positivity, try and leave the world a little nicer form your being in it.
The pay it forward attitude is where we should all strive to be everyday where we can!
Starfield is a popular punching bag right now, which I don't get. The game is fine. There's certain design decisions that I feel didn't come off (most of the space sim aspects), but it's still a meaty singleplayer RPG that you can get at least 30 hours of good fun out of.
This is a case of certain big UA-camrs like NakeyJakey influencing the discourse massively. The discourse surrounding the game was overall positive in the first couple of weeks of launch, then some popular UA-camrs released some well-articulated takedowns of the game and that shifted the conversation a lot. I call this the Dark Souls 2 effect.
Weekly podcast when??? Love you guys and want MORE
I really liked the DD2 discussion
I enjoyed Starfield. 160 hours in. It’s nothing ground breaking and not as good as I hoped, but it was still fun for me.
My only criticism with DD2 is that that you can tell that DD2 is not CPU optimized by checking the rtss stats the usage on each of the cores of my cpu (ryzen 7 5800x) are all being underutilized in the cities.
As far as microtransactioncs go, I don’t have a problem if it’s say for a skin or a cosmetic or a guaranteed essential item(as long as it’s not a ridiculous price).
I'm glad StarField was on GamePass and I didn't have to pay $70 for that crap.
Well Im glad Starfield was on Xbox and PC. Because I only have a PS
DD2's framerate matters more because people actually like playing Dragon's Dogma
Lawrence, we did see celebration for lack of microtransactions on Balders Gate 3.
I’m a fairly casual gamer and I really liked Starfield and I got really into the rpg elements of it but hey to each their own
Overall, it is a good game. That's why it got pretty good reviews at first. I feel like a lot of people were pissed because of expectations. I liked it a lot, but I just don't care for Bethesda RPGs like I used to. I think a lot of people need to tell themselves that as well.
I still play it.
Let me tell you, everyone won't stop lying about Todd and Bethesda. Very frustrating.
Imy knee jerk reaction to the dragons dogma drama, was to look into it myself, and within 30 seconds, i didn't understand why everyonewas making a big deal out of it. I thought the MTs were stupid. But this owas the epitome of "just dont buy it."
People: Games would be better without micro-transactions!
Also People: ooooooOOOOOOOOOOOooooooo Neon Rainbow character skin for only $9.99!
Dude you are preaching to the choir here! I am so sick of hearing about a new gaming controversy every week! And it's not just AAA games. It's insane! It feels like every game I have played in the past year has had some weird mini controversy that got blew way out of proportion and turned their respective social media outlets into a war zone.
Just recently there is that hole epic game shadow update thing for Tomb Raider Remastered. There was a controversy related to Pacific Drive because a bunch of people didn't like how the save system was. It's getting really fucking dumb out here.
Love the Rad Coffee shirt! Great coffee spot!
If they rushed the ending then what happened to the beginning and the middle?
why is there a candle in the dragons dogma 2 stream clip?
The fact that they have little Bethesda charm AND were still rushing to put together THIS game
Fuckin hell Todd.
500 people made this game? I think Lawrence is onto something with saying a lot probably didn't make it in the game. Them being silo'd probably meant all this various teams made amazing things to go into the game but then toward the end when it needed to be put together coherently, they must have just ran out of time. I made the mistake or replaying Cyberpunk right before Starfield came out, and I could not finish Starfield. The level of detail in Cyberpunk puts Starfield to shame. After a few hours of SF I got bored and moved on to other games. But I also didn't pay $70 for it and would have been upset if I had.
I appreciate you coming back on the Dragon's Dogma episode and the reactions. I personally agree with a lot of your stances, but even I found you both a bit "unreasonable" with the performance issues and the microtransation discourse.
If you even experienced those performance issues with your rigs, imagine how people with cheaper pc's experienced it... That a game this ambitious uses that much power, I can get, but it feels like there is still room for improvement, and some criticism of the performance is valid (even though I do agree some of it is also inconsistent with how other games perform). As for the microtransaction, curious to see/hear you future podcast about it, but for me it's like Bruce, I don't reject it entirely, but it should be "earned" by the game. I chose to spend money on Helldivers 2 while I didn't spend a dime on Overwatch 2 because of how disgusting those unlock conditions and prices are...
But while I do agree with you on "praise the people doing it right, instead of bashing those doing it wrong", I think it's already the case. Baldur's Gate 3 was immensely praised by the community for doing it right. Same for the Witcher 3 when the 2 DLC's came out at the time, and even Helldivers 2 now for pricing stuff reasonably without feeling like they're gatekeeping stuff from the main game. Just because the pissed off people are loud doesn't mean that there aren't people seeing the positive in all this!
I had ok fun for a few good days into it. Was fun but waiting for the mods to just fully optimize it.
If Starfield had a design document, there wouldn't need to be consultation via multiple producers in order to place a chair of all things. It wouldn't have solved all of it's problems, but the game would have been more complete.
When I was met with that prompt at the end after building that stupid device on my ship I audibly laughed. What an awful payoff.
Bathesda is one of the companies in the games industry that gets tons of free passes, people actively refuse to talk bad about them.
I am not against microtransactions but I will say there generally is a difference between a microtransaction in a full price game versus a free game
Design documents aren't that important in any ways. They're not like scripts/production plans that you might find in movies. Also that silo effect is really common in both successful and unsuccessful games. It's pretty much inevitable over a certain size of team (usually 30-40ish people). Whether a game is then successful entirely boils down to how silos are managed and whether there's strong game direction/pillars to guide it.
I think there is a big distinction between live service and single player games, paying for an ongoing product vs a finished one
We need a new Satoru Iwata type to be the producer who will swoop in to save games before launch
Been saying it since almost the beginning, Starfield is a Tech Demo with a barebones story and game play loop shoved in because they needed to sell something.
That's how you get 50,000 potatoes acting independently in a zero gravity environment but no climax for either the story or the gameplay.
Feature-creep bloated the engine to maximum possibility, but they don't sell game engines, they sell games. Rush rush rush, panic panic panic, release.
WAS GOING TO BUY IT thanks guys you saved me a ton of money ..
I’d be curious about what the guys think about a situation like moist critikals where dragons dogma 2 is completely unplayable, even if its only the case for a small amount of
Off topic does anyone know headphones model that bruce is using ? they look familiar.
My only problem with Dragons Dogma 2 is how dumb the pawns are. They fall off cliffs every 5 minutes or a large fight is me reviving pawns the entire fight
so with these silo effects can people in charge not just tell their workers to collaborate or be replaced? they seem to replace for anything these days, however I might not have interpreted this right and have no idea what I am talking about
i always come to you guys for honest game news. loved yall since the machinima days. say hi to spoole and joel for us !
Great points
We’ve all been there. Crammed for a project and then tried to sell it to people as if it’s something we could be proud of.