I bought the horse armor. $2.50 for a silly cosmetic in a game I loved. It’s insane that it’s come to this and $500 Ahri skins. Just bananas. Edit: Also, in 2006 there wasn’t hyperinflation and the average person could afford rent and basic necessities.
@@Billy-bc8pkMeh…I don’t buy into the slippery slope thing. This was 18 years ago and it was novel. People need to vote with their wallets and stick to their word.
It actually cost £€$ 10 whatever your currency is! You cannot buy 700 credits. The minimum amount you can buy is 1,000, or ten dollars worth. And they KNOW this!
Dawnguard was $20, for new quests, armour, freaking vampires. Far harbour was $25, both give dozens if not hundreds of quests, and dozens of hours of gameplay. Now one quest, which gives one weapon and two outfits, is $7. Someone else pointed out, this is dlc, but they call it creations so that you don’t get it for free in the season pass.
That’s part of what this ongoing lawsuit that was due to be ruled upon when Bethesda was acquired by Microsoft was about. I don’t remember the full details, but one of the things ALLEGED by the complainant was that Bethesda was using Creation Club as a means to not only “monetize” mods, but to also “circumvent” having to provide Season Pass holders ANY ADDITIONAL CONTENT.
It makes sense. Gear box did that crap with the Headhunters in Borderlands 2. "Well we gave you the 4 base dlcs.. and woah look at this! *literallys pulls it out of his hat* This came out later so pay up c h u m p."
Micro transactions my butt. There is nothing "micro" about several dollars for a small piece of digital content. They should he called what they are, "macro transactions" or "unreasonably expensive".
What is even more egregious is that the trackers alliance is like another faction questline, these usually run between 7-9 missions or so. Which means they probably intend to release individual mission like this and so the full questline will run you something like 50$ to 60$. That is completely insane. They have even done a faction questline as DLC before in Oblivion with Knights of the Nine and back then people thought 20$ was way too much for that amount of content.
This is remarkably disgusting. This is something ea would do and not bestheda... this is setting a very grim trend for the future of games, and this is horrifying for what this could for ES6 and Fallout 5 if they keep doing this. Do not pay money per quest/mission.
Are we just out here forgetting that Bethesda has been kinda toxic for years. Creation Club sells you mods. FO76 has had numerous monetization issues and had other massive issues at launch. Every game by Bethesda Softworks has been full of bugs and broken mechanics. And they resold that broken experience several times on multiple platforms. Stop giving them a pass. Starfield is a continuation of what they have done for over a decade. This is not new and I wish people would have listened to us when they released Horse Armor DLC. Why do people act like Bethesda isn't like EA or Ubisoft? They monetized MODS.
That grim trend has already been a thing. Have we already forgotten that games in the past have already charged money for extra in game missions before. The precedent had been set long since before this
You guys are the best thing on youtube - wish you were on tv! I am so glad you're both still around and doing what you've always done; and as good, or even better than, you ever did it before.
I really like buying older (abandoned) games. You can buy the entire game, pay a sale price and not need to worry about weird new monetization schemes. Why people buy new games surprises me. Once you get a couple years behind you get really great games.
and the game will be fixed. Too many broken games have been shipped later from big publishers that have enough money to do better. The past couple of years I have only bought Indie games new. All of the big quadruple-A games stay in my wishlist until there are a few patches and even more price drops. I'm not paying full price unless they ship a full game.
I only buy stuff that interests me and conviencely all this dark souls buy more esther flask Quad AAAA bullcrap is.. not what I like. 😂 Also you pay with old games if the damn thing is even good for you. I got the last legacy of kain game since that series titles are actual jank, it nice but there a EASY way to literally nuke your progress. Old games are made better. 😂
Better yet, what the hell do they need all this revenue for when they got their $7+ billion check from Microsoft, the $3 trillion “security blanket” that they NOW are within the dominion of?
Bethesda and Xbox are making me seriously worried about Elderscrolls and Fallout. I was upset that ES6 is most likely not coming to playstation but it’s not a dealbreaker. Im more worried about ES6 being dated and underwhelming when it comes out. I bet the next fallout is being rushed and crunched right now because of the hype from the show and the precarious state of Bethesda and Xbox since the merger. Please let me be wrong.
Damn straight! Bastards don't finish a game and expect us gamers to clean up their mess and fix the damn thing. Bethesda is starting to suck ass! Microsoft will pull the plug on them if this continues. Mark my words.
It's a double edged sword. It's true modders will in fact fix it. And you're right, That IS a problem. But thank God all the same modders care enough to do something about it. This game shines when you apply a lot of practical mods.
Middle Earth: Shadow of War (who's microtransactions were massively overblown by gamers) charged you $1.50 for an extra Orc tribe, and you could buy 2 of them. Both tribes offered a unique set of several Orc boss fights in each of the game's 6 regions, a new set of unique gear with special stats, a new legendary set of armor to collect, and added the Orcs from said tribes into the standard rotation of Orcs you could fight in game. All that. For a buck fifty. 7 dollars for a single quest line is ridiculous.
Comparing No Man's Sky's stance towards new content and Bethesda's stance is really eye opening. Hello Games is putting out FREE NEW CONTENT how many years after launch? I've got like a 7 gig update for No Man's Sky every couple months it seems like.
Bruce!! Lawrence!!! Man, I missed you guys! ❤ Immediately subscribed! Inside Games? Hilarious, I remember watching you guys back in those inside gaming days! Can’t believe it took me so long to find you guys! Keep up the good work!
I played fallout 4 with mods on Xbox and was very happy with it. Until they released the Next gen update and deleted/broke most of the mods i used, making all of my saved files totally useless. Mods are not a true alternative for consoles, as much as it hurts me to admit it.
if it makes you feel better, all the mods on PC broke too. but they are already fixed, at least on PC. and we have a way to revert the update too. I hope you eventually can get a PC
When you walk through the park and see that they sell ice cream, you either buy ice cream or pass by! Nobody forbids you to walk in the park, but you don’t need to demand that they give you ice cream for free!!!! People never cease to amaze me
Yeah, in one of the DLC's. You also don't enter the "train". They just force a helmet on your character that covers your FoV and looks like the inside of a train
yep. it was just a naked NPC with a hat, the hats model is actually just a massive train. as dumb as it sounds, its not a terrible solution, it works and it presumably saved a lot of time. But there is something to be said about doing something the fast way, versus doing the correct way.
I don’t need to have a refined taste in space games. I just need to have fun. The market they’re providing is quite a lot. I like being a bounty hunter in space. I like being a cowboy in space. I can just be who I want in this game. Can build the ship I want. I just find it fun and that’s not wrong lol. What am I supposed to do play halo or destiny? I hate interacting with people online mainly for pretentious opinions like that.
I think it's crazy that starfield got a mod limit on Xbox 99 gbs while fallout and Skyrim only got four or five. They are relying way too much on mods.
@@walterwang2011 Im only a small modder, but from what I can see, its unfeasable and out of the scope of modders. One, starfield is an actively updated and supported game, so anytime the game has a update, no matter how small, you now have to dedicate hours or days to make your progress on the mod, and libraries, work with the patch. For example, take a look at "Bannerlord" and see how many total conversion mods work for the current game version; there are none, because the game is getting updates frequently. two, you would have to mess with the games loading system somehow, because flying through space to a planet means loading a INSANE amount of assets quickly, which is something the creation engine isnt good at, and something starfield is pretty bad at due to poor optimization. three, you would have to create multiple game systems that are out of the scope of modders. You have to create some kind of system that lets your ship fly fast through space, so you dont spend 20 minutes flying toward a planet. that system then has to be integrated into the ship building system. You then have to balance that system, and integrate the fuel mechanic into it somehow, or remove the fuel system and then probably break everything. You then have to create a system that renders the planet, but only where you land, while still partially rendering the rest of the planet so its not just empty and looks wrong. and then create some kind of tile loading system that de-loads the previous cell you were in while loading the new one, which is impossible to do with the modding tools, unless you want MORE load screens. You also have to do this loading on the fly and constantly change it, because the player is flying towards the planet, but what if they swerve left, now they are headed towards a tile the game wasnt loading. Basically, its impossible for ANY modder to attempt. You would probably need access to the game's source code and the eldritch ability to understand bethesda's code, and the ability to change it without breaking anything, to create any of the systems needed to fix the games space exploration. Its out of Bethesda's scope too, actually. It would require too much effort for very little profit, because guess what, the game still isnt fun even with good space exploration. The characters are still bland, hate-able, soul-less NPCs, and you still have ZERO choice in how the story plays out, and you still cant be a bad guy or do anything morally grey because the game doesnt let you. thank you for coming to my TED talk, sponsored by autism
Bruce talking about setting industry trends with this is exactly why I feel frustration with the "if you don't like it, don't buy it" advice. I agree 100% with Lawrence that the sort of not-quite-indie, definitely-not-AAA space is where a lot of the fun is right now, but if that sort of game can't compete with whales funding awful practices, they're going to get swallowed up, regardless of whether I ignore whatever this week's micro transaction is.
I think the trick is those smaller studios could, in fact, compete if the bigger studios were not taking in so much money. That's where the " don't buy it" comes in. If everyone actually spent their money consistent with what they say, large studios would, in fact, suffer and that would give indie studios more market share. It is absolutely one hundred percent true that the market decides. It's simply that gamers are a fickle market and will complain about something incessantly yet still buy into that same thing they are complaining about. (Many MMOs have relied on this for decades; gamers constantly complaining about the game yet paying a monthly subscription fee all the same.)
What's the difference between this story on the Creations currency quest and the conversation yall had during the Xbox direct about micro transactions for Dragons Dogma and how it didn't bother you two since you two were adults. (I'm a bit lost on the distinction)
I feel so much less Tinfoil Hat about having similar thoughts to Lawrence on "Starfield flopped so studios closed and stupid $7 quests are being slapped on as revenue outlets"
10:48 Laurence is probably right. The only thing I'm going off of is Doom Eternal. Doom Eternals dlc's are not on Game pass and I have a funny feeling it never will be. The only game I can think of that didn't force you to pay for on Game Pass is Gears 5's 'Hive Busters'.
They only added MAPS into the game a few weeks ago, and we still can’t swim underwater 😂, but they have the b*lls to ask $7 for a single quest now. Finish the game before charging for ‘micro’-transactions!, - and at MUCH more reasonable prices, BGS. This quest should have been $2 max.
I wonder if people realize that supporting these companies will only just create more turmoil and suffering. Seems like people enjoy that and want big companies to do these things. If you want them to fail. Just simply stop buying their products.
People can't let go of Bethesda because of Elder Scrolls and Fallout. Every bad move they make has people chuckle nervously and say nonsense like "Oh boy, I sure hope ES6 won't have all these horrible problems".
The only silver lining is the Tracker Alliance can be expanded via mods that aren't charging you 7 dollars for one quest. Also, the way Bethesda implemented loading screens as much as they did just shows they have 0 creativity in how to hide them. Ubisoft (!!) beat them at that. That's insane to think about. Editing to add: I was extremely unfair to Cyberpunk at its release, after what Lawrence said. I love it now, with the new updates and everything. But after Starfield, i'm appreciating what CDPR did with something completely new so much more, even if it was controversial at launch. The important thing is they worked on it and admitted their faults.
“They had a horse in Skyrim.” Yeah, and they charged $7 for horse armour, opening the floodgates for every other publisher to start the price gauging gaugathon!
7:28 There are no official rideable vehicles in Bethesda games that I know of, but there's at least one extremely elaborate mod that lets you use a steampunk airship in Skyrim. It's a bit buggy, but it's VERY impressive that it works at all and was apparently very difficult to make work with the game's engine.
New vegas has a mod that contains vehicles, but its a mod called the frontier, and we do not speak of this mod for so, so, so many reasons. the issue with it is the fact that the creation engine doesnt have vehicle mechanics at all. basically, all the things that make cars work in real life (traction, gearboxes, wheels, gravity, friction, etc) are all missing from the games engine, and it cant simulate those things to simulate a car, if those things dont exist.
My guess is, someone said they needed a paid dlc for this event and someone did the time math that their expansion is probably 4 or 5 quest lines for $30 so 1 quest line should be worth $7 and no one though of the optics. The math probably adds up to what you would pay per quest line, but breaking it down to pay per questline makes it look like a horrible deal to gamers.
I don’t foresee myself reinstalling Starfield until the ease of traversal is improved. Take out some of these loading screens, add a rover (that doesn’t require a loading screen to get on the ground), fix the carrying capacity, and fix the ease of crafting bases (local and interplanetary) because it’s way too cumbersome.
I knew something was up when they flashed the creation club screen during the Xbox Showcase and there was some kind of numerical value underneath it. But hey it's been 18 years since the horse armor fiasco, people won't still remember that, right?
One issue is a lot of people are using their 1,000 credit bonus for having the Premium Edition to buy this, thus pushing the sales numbers up giving the impression that people are buying credits and spending it on this one mission. Their total sales will really be inflated, forcing them to charge the same amount again for the next one.
Hey Larr and Bruce! There’s been a lot of attention given to Ubisoft and there single player games recently, wether good or bad they are noticeably focusing on these types of games which in modern day you wouldn’t expect to be hugely successful from longtime monetisation. As a committed R6 Siege player (6+ years now) I was wondering what your thoughts are on them evolving that into their live service game, I remember laughing in 2017 when they said they plan to support it for 10+ years… and here we are and it seems more popular than ever and it must be a great earner for them (especially with the announcement and release of their Siege monthly subscription
I thought the 'Creation' in question had a quest, an exclusive gun and suit or something. Not the greatest value, but a bit better than some that are on Fallout 4 and Skyrim. Am I wrong?
I agree that $7 is crazy for a quest but looking at the larger gaming landscape, it's pretty par for the course. COD games are full priced and charge 20+ dollers for skins. The larger market is eating this shit up, so it'll only get worse.
I think the trouble with not calling Bethesda out publicly and not being upset by this is that generally we like Bethesda, we want their games and their company to be successful. So if we just wait for the market to respond and not buy this, they're going to be a couple of quarters in before they get the message that people didn't like this. They have to wait for sales data to respond. The great thing with the internet is that I can communicate my dissatisfaction with their business model immediately. Maybe there's nothing behind my dissatisfaction and they can look at the numbers and ignore what I'm saying, but if enough people are talking about this fuck and Bethesda can easily look at their sales data and draw the direct line from the thing everybody's upset about to what their economic outcome is. I think it's better for everyone.
the problem is, bethesda will purposefully ignore everyones feedback. Bethesda does not care about anyones opinion, and they never will. any AAA corporation will ignore your opinion. and the casuals who dont care about videogames will buy it and never voice their disdain because they dont care and just want to look at a TV screen for 3 hours before going to bed and going to work.
@@selectionn agreed, it's their prerogative to pay attention or ignore what people are saying. By the same token. If they ignore me, I don't have to buy their games. It's all an ecosystem. If they're crappy I can be crappy back. If I'm crappy to them they can be crappy to me. As I said, I want them to succeed, I like most of what they do, even if it is often a little jank.
@@selectionn I can't speak for Bethesda, but watch interviews with Howard, he cares, it may not be enough to do the things we all want, but he absolutely does care a bit, it seems to affect his judgement a little or he wouldn't chase the attention.
Starfield is not nearly good enough to start charging for things. I paid $30 to play it early on gamepass and tbh it wasn't even worth that. Let alone a $7 quest. Also there are mods for new vegas, fallout 4, and even skyrim that add drivable vehicles....Just saying.
No one is surprised by Bethesda doing this. They have a loooooong history of anticonsumer behavior. They haven't gotten the pass from me since I've given up on the industry as a whole a decade ago. Elder Scrolls 6 has no chance
I'm so tired of the current industry. I don't want to invest in anything because I don't believe I'll get my money's worth out of my initial money. I don't want to have to keep forking over more cash to get a full game. I'm tired of games as a service. It's why I'm annoyed with Star Wars: Outlaws. If people are stupid enough to buy shit, more power to them. I'm done with it. I've defended Starfield (to a degree) because I enjoyed it. But this is bullshit. I'll never give Bethesda another dime. (I will play the new Doom on Game Pass tho).
My reaction to the $7 mod was similar to Bruce and Lawrence. The value of the mod is absurd, but I don't really care since I'm not crazy/rich to be spending that much on one mission.
We never should have bought the horse armor.
You can blame me
Ya played yourselves...
I bought the horse armor. $2.50 for a silly cosmetic in a game I loved. It’s insane that it’s come to this and $500 Ahri skins. Just bananas.
Edit: Also, in 2006 there wasn’t hyperinflation and the average person could afford rent and basic necessities.
@@WrackPharmd That's how slippery slopes work...
@@Billy-bc8pkMeh…I don’t buy into the slippery slope thing. This was 18 years ago and it was novel. People need to vote with their wallets and stick to their word.
I hear spoole saying something about "1 dollar 1 minute"
1 dollar 1 hour
@@Channel-io4xu thanks, forgot the funhaus lore for a second.
Well at this rate it's gonna be 1 dollar 1 minnute.
Oh no. THAT HIT THAT SWEET NOSTALGIA BONE
Poole may have been talking nonsense, but goddamn he was a dreamer
“Starfield, you’re not pretty enough to act like this” 😂
It actually cost £€$ 10 whatever your currency is! You cannot buy 700 credits. The minimum amount you can buy is 1,000, or ten dollars worth. And they KNOW this!
Tango died so Bethesda could get its leg stuck in the floor and spaz out.
"if you ain't got enough players, you need to squeaze the ones you got!"
- Fallout 76 main marketing strategy.
Dawnguard was $20, for new quests, armour, freaking vampires. Far harbour was $25, both give dozens if not hundreds of quests, and dozens of hours of gameplay. Now one quest, which gives one weapon and two outfits, is $7.
Someone else pointed out, this is dlc, but they call it creations so that you don’t get it for free in the season pass.
Pretty sure New Vegas’ dlcs were all $10 when they released which is mad to think about when compared to these days.
What season pass? Premium edition only gives you Shattered Space and 1000 creation credits. Not access to all DLC
That’s part of what this ongoing lawsuit that was due to be ruled upon when Bethesda was acquired by Microsoft was about.
I don’t remember the full details, but one of the things ALLEGED by the complainant was that Bethesda was using Creation Club as a means to not only “monetize” mods, but to also “circumvent” having to provide Season Pass holders ANY ADDITIONAL CONTENT.
E pra nós brasileiros que tá custando 41,00 R$
It makes sense. Gear box did that crap with the Headhunters in Borderlands 2.
"Well we gave you the 4 base dlcs.. and woah look at this! *literallys pulls it out of his hat*
This came out later so pay up c h u m p."
PUT GAMES INSIDE ME
Amen🙏
That'll be $50 hun
10 shekels per thrust
I haven't pooped right since that happened.
@@climaksy1659 I will take 10 scrobbles and nothing less.
The public: oh hey look the fallout show kinda took the bad taste out of the consumers mouths
Bethesda: put it back and double it
Micro transactions my butt. There is nothing "micro" about several dollars for a small piece of digital content. They should he called what they are, "macro transactions" or "unreasonably expensive".
This! Microstransactions should be cents
Its worth every penny to me so i couldnt care less what u call it 😎
are you a survivor fan? because your use of several got me chuckling.
@@504Treythis is how you know this guy doesn't have a job.
@@504TreySame here man.. I would spend any amount of money for some awesome paid quests.
What is even more egregious is that the trackers alliance is like another faction questline, these usually run between 7-9 missions or so. Which means they probably intend to release individual mission like this and so the full questline will run you something like 50$ to 60$. That is completely insane.
They have even done a faction questline as DLC before in Oblivion with Knights of the Nine and back then people thought 20$ was way too much for that amount of content.
I'm not saying I pirated horse armor back in the day, but I sure didn't pay for it.
😂☠️
yes i also had a free coupon for it
Ma maaan
Man, you MUST BE SUPER COOL.
"the story was pretty milquetoast" is the most gracious thing I've heard uttered recently
I always thought the saying was “milk toast” and I’m glad I don’t have that running around in my brain anymore lmbo
Thank you Bruce and Lawrence for not charging me to pay you guys. Seriously though, you guys are amazing
This is remarkably disgusting. This is something ea would do and not bestheda... this is setting a very grim trend for the future of games, and this is horrifying for what this could for ES6 and Fallout 5 if they keep doing this.
Do not pay money per quest/mission.
Are we just out here forgetting that Bethesda has been kinda toxic for years. Creation Club sells you mods. FO76 has had numerous monetization issues and had other massive issues at launch. Every game by Bethesda Softworks has been full of bugs and broken mechanics. And they resold that broken experience several times on multiple platforms. Stop giving them a pass. Starfield is a continuation of what they have done for over a decade. This is not new and I wish people would have listened to us when they released Horse Armor DLC. Why do people act like Bethesda isn't like EA or Ubisoft? They monetized MODS.
@@GundamGokuTV You right, preach it
That grim trend has already been a thing. Have we already forgotten that games in the past have already charged money for extra in game missions before. The precedent had been set long since before this
I will pay. No problem.😂😂 Haters are gonna hate! 🎉
You guys are the best thing on youtube - wish you were on tv! I am so glad you're both still around and doing what you've always done; and as good, or even better than, you ever did it before.
I really like buying older (abandoned) games. You can buy the entire game, pay a sale price and not need to worry about weird new monetization schemes. Why people buy new games surprises me. Once you get a couple years behind you get really great games.
Shiney new toy.
and the game will be fixed. Too many broken games have been shipped later from big publishers that have enough money to do better. The past couple of years I have only bought Indie games new. All of the big quadruple-A games stay in my wishlist until there are a few patches and even more price drops. I'm not paying full price unless they ship a full game.
I only buy stuff that interests me and conviencely all this dark souls buy more esther flask Quad AAAA bullcrap is.. not what I like. 😂
Also you pay with old games if the damn thing is even good for you. I got the last legacy of kain game since that series titles are actual jank, it nice but there a EASY way to literally nuke your progress.
Old games are made better. 😂
Rovers gonna be $15 and $5 for each different paint job.
theyll probably have the rovers free and have a new faction for racing and sell those missions for 7 too
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Welcome to the world of Elite dangerous
Don’t forget gas. They will make you pay real world prices for in game gas
Is that about $7 per wheel?
"They're stuck. They need revenue."
What the heck did they do with the 100 dollars I already gave them?
Skooma probably...
Better yet, what the hell do they need all this revenue for when they got their $7+ billion check from Microsoft, the $3 trillion “security blanket” that they NOW are within the dominion of?
It went to the Howard family generational wealth fund.
Todd used it to buy his nice leather jacket ...lol
They gave it to the executives and fired a bunch of developers.
I re-installed Starfield because of the new quest, then saw that it costs money, and then immediately uninstalled again. Bethesda is a fucking joke.
yea, i'm fixing to do the same. Saved games and all. Fuck Bethesda for ruining my gaming experience.
The more I see of Starfield the more I wonder why they released a game from 2015 in the 2020's
Listen Lawrence. If you don’t respond to this. Imma shit right here.
Please hurry, Lawrence. He's already taking his pants off.
@@Rick586 I’ll do it. I’m crazy.
Oh my god, Lawrence, it looks like he's been holding it in for days, just give him what he wants
🌋
Good lord, he's starting to squat!
Maybe, maybe, I'll care about Starfield when the special edition comes out, maybe when the "next-gen" re-release hits 75% off on gog.
every day they push me more and more into piracy
Bethesda and Xbox are making me seriously worried about Elderscrolls and Fallout. I was upset that ES6 is most likely not coming to playstation but it’s not a dealbreaker. Im more worried about ES6 being dated and underwhelming when it comes out. I bet the next fallout is being rushed and crunched right now because of the hype from the show and the precarious state of Bethesda and Xbox since the merger. Please let me be wrong.
People sometimes forget that they are the Horse Armor seller
"Mods will fix it."
That thinking is the goddamn problem.
Damn straight! Bastards don't finish a game and expect us gamers to clean up their mess and fix the damn thing. Bethesda is starting to suck ass! Microsoft will pull the plug on them if this continues. Mark my words.
It's a double edged sword. It's true modders will in fact fix it. And you're right, That IS a problem. But thank God all the same modders care enough to do something about it. This game shines when you apply a lot of practical mods.
Middle Earth: Shadow of War (who's microtransactions were massively overblown by gamers) charged you $1.50 for an extra Orc tribe, and you could buy 2 of them.
Both tribes offered a unique set of several Orc boss fights in each of the game's 6 regions, a new set of unique gear with special stats, a new legendary set of armor to collect, and added the Orcs from said tribes into the standard rotation of Orcs you could fight in game.
All that. For a buck fifty. 7 dollars for a single quest line is ridiculous.
Single quest, not questline. Like 15min of content apparently
Don't let Bethesda get away with this, if we let them think this is acceptable it's only gonna get worse
My decision to wait until the inevitable GOTY version is on sale for 80%+ off is looking more and more sensible.
It would have to have been goty to get one of those😂
Comparing No Man's Sky's stance towards new content and Bethesda's stance is really eye opening. Hello Games is putting out FREE NEW CONTENT how many years after launch? I've got like a 7 gig update for No Man's Sky every couple months it seems like.
Sean Murry really is the GOAT!
NMS dev had better as they had one of the worst release of all time. Only to be trumped by Cyberpunks release lol
@@Bee_Mavricknot rlly, most gamers dont mind paid contents..but starfield paid contents is so shit that it just a cashgrab
God, Bethesda pls dont do this with Doom Dark Ages, or we WILL crash out.
Just restarted the outer worlds. Not the best game but feels way more fleshed out then starfield
And what’s funny is that the damn NPC that offers the quest is at every entrance and door way trying to sell you the quest 😂
Lawrence and Bruce’s chemistry is better than ever!
Bruce!! Lawrence!!! Man, I missed you guys! ❤ Immediately subscribed! Inside Games? Hilarious, I remember watching you guys back in those inside gaming days! Can’t believe it took me so long to find you guys! Keep up the good work!
I played fallout 4 with mods on Xbox and was very happy with it.
Until they released the Next gen update and deleted/broke most of the mods i used, making all of my saved files totally useless.
Mods are not a true alternative for consoles, as much as it hurts me to admit it.
if it makes you feel better, all the mods on PC broke too.
but they are already fixed, at least on PC. and we have a way to revert the update too.
I hope you eventually can get a PC
When you walk through the park and see that they sell ice cream, you either buy ice cream or pass by! Nobody forbids you to walk in the park, but you don’t need to demand that they give you ice cream for free!!!!
People never cease to amaze me
except people already bought the entire park for 70$. your analogy isnt clever
@vita_pulchra_est He's a shill for corporations
7:30 wasn't there a subway tram in a Bethesda game that was really just an NPC with a fancy hat?
Yeah, in one of the DLC's. You also don't enter the "train". They just force a helmet on your character that covers your FoV and looks like the inside of a train
yep. it was just a naked NPC with a hat, the hats model is actually just a massive train.
as dumb as it sounds, its not a terrible solution, it works and it presumably saved a lot of time. But there is something to be said about doing something the fast way, versus doing the correct way.
Bethesda is getting desperate. I hope this fails spectacularly, don't give them your money people.
I don’t need to have a refined taste in space games. I just need to have fun. The market they’re providing is quite a lot. I like being a bounty hunter in space. I like being a cowboy in space. I can just be who I want in this game. Can build the ship I want. I just find it fun and that’s not wrong lol. What am I supposed to do play halo or destiny? I hate interacting with people online mainly for pretentious opinions like that.
I mean when ur next game is 10 years away you kinda have to support your latest turd
Sell a broken game and sell it's fixes. Is this not how it's supposed to be? Feels like how it's been for the past 10 years.
if wheels are too complicated for the creation engine, just make the thing hover!!.
@@Bee_Mavrick they seem to have enough time and resources to nickel and dime users though. also in 8 years...wheels thwarted them.
I think it's crazy that starfield got a mod limit on Xbox 99 gbs while fallout and Skyrim only got four or five. They are relying way too much on mods.
downloading skyrim just to k*ll a fully armored horse
lil bro is trying to sell me DLC when he can't convince me to even buy the game lol
Whats the point of the rover in starfield when there is nothing of note to drive to besides another rock
I can’t wait to play Starfield in 5 years when it’s done and cost 30 dollars
As a modder, I won't mod Starfield, because the game sucks ass. As much as I wanted to, I'll just go back to New Vegas, FO4, and Skyrim.
Don't forget Oblivion. Without it Skyrim never would have existed. It was the stepping stone between Morrowind and Skyrim.
@@Flip86x I haven’t made something for Oblivion in a long time. Might as well make something. Lol
make Starfield not bad
As a modder, how hard do you think adding fun space exploration into the game is? Freelancer or no man sky style.
@@walterwang2011 Im only a small modder, but from what I can see, its unfeasable and out of the scope of modders.
One, starfield is an actively updated and supported game, so anytime the game has a update, no matter how small, you now have to dedicate hours or days to make your progress on the mod, and libraries, work with the patch. For example, take a look at "Bannerlord" and see how many total conversion mods work for the current game version; there are none, because the game is getting updates frequently.
two, you would have to mess with the games loading system somehow, because flying through space to a planet means loading a INSANE amount of assets quickly, which is something the creation engine isnt good at, and something starfield is pretty bad at due to poor optimization.
three, you would have to create multiple game systems that are out of the scope of modders. You have to create some kind of system that lets your ship fly fast through space, so you dont spend 20 minutes flying toward a planet. that system then has to be integrated into the ship building system. You then have to balance that system, and integrate the fuel mechanic into it somehow, or remove the fuel system and then probably break everything.
You then have to create a system that renders the planet, but only where you land, while still partially rendering the rest of the planet so its not just empty and looks wrong. and then create some kind of tile loading system that de-loads the previous cell you were in while loading the new one, which is impossible to do with the modding tools, unless you want MORE load screens. You also have to do this loading on the fly and constantly change it, because the player is flying towards the planet, but what if they swerve left, now they are headed towards a tile the game wasnt loading.
Basically, its impossible for ANY modder to attempt. You would probably need access to the game's source code and the eldritch ability to understand bethesda's code, and the ability to change it without breaking anything, to create any of the systems needed to fix the games space exploration.
Its out of Bethesda's scope too, actually. It would require too much effort for very little profit, because guess what, the game still isnt fun even with good space exploration. The characters are still bland, hate-able, soul-less NPCs, and you still have ZERO choice in how the story plays out, and you still cant be a bad guy or do anything morally grey because the game doesnt let you.
thank you for coming to my TED talk, sponsored by autism
I have never been and could never be more disappointed in a video game than I was with Starfield.
Bethesda... Bethesda never changes.
Bruce talking about setting industry trends with this is exactly why I feel frustration with the "if you don't like it, don't buy it" advice. I agree 100% with Lawrence that the sort of not-quite-indie, definitely-not-AAA space is where a lot of the fun is right now, but if that sort of game can't compete with whales funding awful practices, they're going to get swallowed up, regardless of whether I ignore whatever this week's micro transaction is.
I think the trick is those smaller studios could, in fact, compete if the bigger studios were not taking in so much money. That's where the " don't buy it" comes in. If everyone actually spent their money consistent with what they say, large studios would, in fact, suffer and that would give indie studios more market share. It is absolutely one hundred percent true that the market decides. It's simply that gamers are a fickle market and will complain about something incessantly yet still buy into that same thing they are complaining about. (Many MMOs have relied on this for decades; gamers constantly complaining about the game yet paying a monthly subscription fee all the same.)
Lol that you’re not pretty enough line is great😂
What's the difference between this story on the Creations currency quest and the conversation yall had during the Xbox direct about micro transactions for Dragons Dogma and how it didn't bother you two since you two were adults. (I'm a bit lost on the distinction)
I feel so much less Tinfoil Hat about having similar thoughts to Lawrence on "Starfield flopped so studios closed and stupid $7 quests are being slapped on as revenue outlets"
10:48
Laurence is probably right. The only thing I'm going off of is Doom Eternal. Doom Eternals dlc's are not on Game pass and I have a funny feeling it never will be. The only game I can think of that didn't force you to pay for on Game Pass is Gears 5's 'Hive Busters'.
Seriously, I see any UA-camrs promoting Starfield content I tell the algorithm not to recommend the channel again.
Starfield was the first game i ever played that bored me so badly I fell asleep while playing
The quest is apparently 15 mins long. Shameless.
But thats double your 7 dollars worth, it even gives you an extra dollar worth of content !!!
😂
Love you guys, you're always very grounded with your opinions
There was a terminator game back in the 90s that had a drivable jeep, i don't remember if it was bugy to drive tho.
Starfield. The game that keeps giving...
..gamers a reason to HATE Bethesda.
They only added MAPS into the game a few weeks ago, and we still can’t swim underwater 😂, but they have the b*lls to ask $7 for a single quest now.
Finish the game before charging for ‘micro’-transactions!, - and at MUCH more reasonable prices, BGS. This quest should have been $2 max.
Sail the seven seas.
The cars in Starfield will be 2.00 bucks a mile, in space.
Very insightful show. this one really had me thinking
I wonder if people realize that supporting these companies will only just create more turmoil and suffering.
Seems like people enjoy that and want big companies to do these things.
If you want them to fail. Just simply stop buying their products.
People can't let go of Bethesda because of Elder Scrolls and Fallout. Every bad move they make has people chuckle nervously and say nonsense like "Oh boy, I sure hope ES6 won't have all these horrible problems".
The only silver lining is the Tracker Alliance can be expanded via mods that aren't charging you 7 dollars for one quest. Also, the way Bethesda implemented loading screens as much as they did just shows they have 0 creativity in how to hide them. Ubisoft (!!) beat them at that. That's insane to think about.
Editing to add: I was extremely unfair to Cyberpunk at its release, after what Lawrence said. I love it now, with the new updates and everything. But after Starfield, i'm appreciating what CDPR did with something completely new so much more, even if it was controversial at launch. The important thing is they worked on it and admitted their faults.
Yeah and Phantom Liberty is amazing
“They had a horse in Skyrim.” Yeah, and they charged $7 for horse armour, opening the floodgates for every other publisher to start the price gauging gaugathon!
7:28 There are no official rideable vehicles in Bethesda games that I know of, but there's at least one extremely elaborate mod that lets you use a steampunk airship in Skyrim. It's a bit buggy, but it's VERY impressive that it works at all and was apparently very difficult to make work with the game's engine.
There was also an incredibly janky fallout 3 mod that added a car
Horses kinda lol
New vegas has a mod that contains vehicles, but its a mod called the frontier, and we do not speak of this mod for so, so, so many reasons.
the issue with it is the fact that the creation engine doesnt have vehicle mechanics at all. basically, all the things that make cars work in real life (traction, gearboxes, wheels, gravity, friction, etc) are all missing from the games engine, and it cant simulate those things to simulate a car, if those things dont exist.
@@selectionn I almost forgot about that mod! What an absolute clusterfuck that turned out to be...
@@selectionn yeah what I remember of the FO3 one is it was basically a car with a persons movement model applied, just sped up.
My guess is, someone said they needed a paid dlc for this event and someone did the time math that their expansion is probably 4 or 5 quest lines for $30 so 1 quest line should be worth $7 and no one though of the optics. The math probably adds up to what you would pay per quest line, but breaking it down to pay per questline makes it look like a horrible deal to gamers.
I don’t foresee myself reinstalling Starfield until the ease of traversal is improved. Take out some of these loading screens, add a rover (that doesn’t require a loading screen to get on the ground), fix the carrying capacity, and fix the ease of crafting bases (local and interplanetary) because it’s way too cumbersome.
Appreciated.
Great analysis there at the end
I loved cyberpunk 2077 day one.
Microsoft just wants to make its money back on Candy Crush, it could give f all to its gaming division.
Hey did you guys hear about the Fixtf2 movement? Seems like something that would be right up your alley.
And Tango died for this game......
I knew something was up when they flashed the creation club screen during the Xbox Showcase and there was some kind of numerical value underneath it. But hey it's been 18 years since the horse armor fiasco, people won't still remember that, right?
That fucking Horse armor…
I liked the hype about the observatory. The one that you can’t look through. IT DOES NOT EVEN HAVE A F’n Door.
did they add more loading screens?
One issue is a lot of people are using their 1,000 credit bonus for having the Premium Edition to buy this, thus pushing the sales numbers up giving the impression that people are buying credits and spending it on this one mission. Their total sales will really be inflated, forcing them to charge the same amount again for the next one.
Not me. I never paid for mods. Mods are free anyways. There are better mods for free than what CC has
Hey Larr and Bruce! There’s been a lot of attention given to Ubisoft and there single player games recently, wether good or bad they are noticeably focusing on these types of games which in modern day you wouldn’t expect to be hugely successful from longtime monetisation. As a committed R6 Siege player (6+ years now) I was wondering what your thoughts are on them evolving that into their live service game, I remember laughing in 2017 when they said they plan to support it for 10+ years… and here we are and it seems more popular than ever and it must be a great earner for them (especially with the announcement and release of their Siege monthly subscription
I thought the 'Creation' in question had a quest, an exclusive gun and suit or something. Not the greatest value, but a bit better than some that are on Fallout 4 and Skyrim. Am I wrong?
Horse Armor 2: Electric Boogaloo
All these terrible business practices feels like a fever dream we can’t wake up from
This is the new Horse Armor DLC
I agree that $7 is crazy for a quest but looking at the larger gaming landscape, it's pretty par for the course. COD games are full priced and charge 20+ dollers for skins. The larger market is eating this shit up, so it'll only get worse.
My problem is if an endgame suit at the very start of the game is an achievement friendly mod then so should other mods
I think the trouble with not calling Bethesda out publicly and not being upset by this is that generally we like Bethesda, we want their games and their company to be successful. So if we just wait for the market to respond and not buy this, they're going to be a couple of quarters in before they get the message that people didn't like this. They have to wait for sales data to respond. The great thing with the internet is that I can communicate my dissatisfaction with their business model immediately. Maybe there's nothing behind my dissatisfaction and they can look at the numbers and ignore what I'm saying, but if enough people are talking about this fuck and Bethesda can easily look at their sales data and draw the direct line from the thing everybody's upset about to what their economic outcome is. I think it's better for everyone.
the problem is, bethesda will purposefully ignore everyones feedback. Bethesda does not care about anyones opinion, and they never will. any AAA corporation will ignore your opinion.
and the casuals who dont care about videogames will buy it and never voice their disdain because they dont care and just want to look at a TV screen for 3 hours before going to bed and going to work.
@@selectionn agreed, it's their prerogative to pay attention or ignore what people are saying. By the same token. If they ignore me, I don't have to buy their games. It's all an ecosystem. If they're crappy I can be crappy back. If I'm crappy to them they can be crappy to me. As I said, I want them to succeed, I like most of what they do, even if it is often a little jank.
@@selectionn I can't speak for Bethesda, but watch interviews with Howard, he cares, it may not be enough to do the things we all want, but he absolutely does care a bit, it seems to affect his judgement a little or he wouldn't chase the attention.
Forza Horizon had the same monetisation. Base game is free, expansions are paid. And if you pay to upgrade, you are locked in to gamepass.
I love how much Lawrence loves Cyberpunk that he defends it every time. it is an unreal immersive experience 🙏🏽
I didn't know this game was still being played. Is Skyrim re-reforged coming out this year?
Maybe since Starfield was a financial failure they are now turning it into a testing ground for how to recoup costs on future titles.
I don’t believe it was a failure so much as they are charging you out every last dollar they can.
Starfield is not nearly good enough to start charging for things. I paid $30 to play it early on gamepass and tbh it wasn't even worth that. Let alone a $7 quest. Also there are mods for new vegas, fallout 4, and even skyrim that add drivable vehicles....Just saying.
No one is surprised by Bethesda doing this. They have a loooooong history of anticonsumer behavior. They haven't gotten the pass from me since I've given up on the industry as a whole a decade ago. Elder Scrolls 6 has no chance
I'm so tired of the current industry. I don't want to invest in anything because I don't believe I'll get my money's worth out of my initial money. I don't want to have to keep forking over more cash to get a full game. I'm tired of games as a service. It's why I'm annoyed with Star Wars: Outlaws.
If people are stupid enough to buy shit, more power to them. I'm done with it. I've defended Starfield (to a degree) because I enjoyed it. But this is bullshit. I'll never give Bethesda another dime. (I will play the new Doom on Game Pass tho).
My reaction to the $7 mod was similar to Bruce and Lawrence. The value of the mod is absurd, but I don't really care since I'm not crazy/rich to be spending that much on one mission.
Bethesdas greed has no boundaries