Electric Skateboard Dual Motors VS Single Motor
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- Опубліковано 17 лип 2016
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Jason Potter
#ElectricSkateboards #DIY #ESK8 #VESC #Howto #Skateboarding #Tutorials #builder - Навчання та стиль
I just realized that Jason has not been saying "jewel drive" but rather he has been saying "dual drive" in many of his videos. I kept wondering what this elusive gem of a drivetrain was and I thought it might have something in common with the really hard drill bits that cut through granite!
Great, love seeing these types of videos. I can just send this to someone starting out with one click, very helpful.
new baby, wow, congratulations brotha. keep up the hard work, I enjoy watching your videos. been a bit busy myself to though. keep it all up. good vibes
awesome summary. concise and detailed. win win
You help me a lot to decide what should i build. Thanks for sharing yoir idea 👍👍🥰
good vid - very informative
Any suggestions on charging the batteries on such a DIY setup. As in any good sources for AC power charging port to combined into a unit?
So in order to double the performance you also need double the voltage? How much better dual drive is with the same voltage that you would use with a single motor?
Hey! I was willing to make my own eboard. If doing my research and I would love to have a dual motor setup.
I was wondering on how the turning works. I mean in order to turn the inner wheel has to lower its RPMs to turn into that direction. So when you lean... due to your weight and inclination the friction force on the inner wheel would be higher and you will just turn. But if you push the throttle while doing this, the speed variation will exponentially increase until its uncontrollable and chances of falling just seem really high.
So does the Vescs have any giroscope and compensate this to avoid falling or how would this be managed? Or am I just overthinking and when eboarding if you want to turn you just dont push the throttle??
Can anyone help me with this??
Regards!
I don't really worry about weight, my board is currently 10 kg. And pushing isn't to hard especially with those beautiful bearings thankyou.
what does it mean when the vesc light up red because my motor wont start. please help
whats the difference between the r spec and mech kits. I mean I would assume performance but the website wasnt crazy specific.
You're the best.
How about 12mm mono drive on the back, upgradeable to 12mm mono drive on the front. Any losses?
One thing mate. Duel motors suck battery power. Anyway great video. I subbed.
So what kv are your dual set up
Great video😎what about 4 motors👍
Can I just buy a mono pre-built...I want to buy within this week and wanted boosted board but will have to wait and it's not practical on distance or speed...I'd rather buy a mono Also does it come with a controller and off switch if so, I'll buy it right now
what type of motors are those ?
I want to have a longboard with Torque Moto. how much money should I spend?
and where can I buy it?
Where can i buy the wheels ?
I just watched your 32 vlog the best electric skateboard for under $450 and was wondering if it is still relevant or if there are better, cheaper parts now? If there are cheaper parts could you make a revised video for that?
Nice video, everything I wanted to ask has already been asked! ;) Also, would you mind me making a review of your awesome eboard? On youtube I mean.
What happen when you run to motor with one Esc..?
I live in the Netherlands, no hills all flat and its always cold. Mono drive would be more than enough. Good explanation though.! Would you also still suggest mono, not only because of the price advantage? Ofcourse your way of working makes you want to create the best, but mono drive is not only price wise a good option..
Stupid question:
Can I use 2 different kinds of remote? 1 with more torque and lover high speed and another motor with higher speed?
So what can I do for water proofing. I live in Seattle and it is more likely than not that there will be water on the ground. I'm really interested in your product I just need the water resistance.
motors are water proof as is, brushed or brushless, might need water resistant ESC/reciever
So they both reach the same top speed of 45 kmph?
Can Ay get one mate ?
Have you stopped selling the enertion motor? I can't find it anywhere on your site.
Sad, I don't really like hub motors.
1) Is it possible to get all-terrain wheels for this anywhere?
2) Would the motor mount work on a regular long board truck?
3) If I got two motors, wouldn't I want to get a twice as powerful control unit so I can use all the power from the motors I can get? Thank you very much for any answers...
When you say 'control unit' do you mean battery? because I believe that having 50 amps going to each motor isnt possible with current battery technology. do NOT quote me on this though
TheXenoMaster Thanks for the reply.. Yeah you are right, the typical peak current for li-ion batteries is 40-60 amps... SO you are right, I would definitely need 2 batteries for that... so never-mind :)
1) not sure, have seen all terrain long boards but not sure how different that is from regular long board trucks and wheels.
2) yes I bought some other similar mounts from diyelectricskateboard.com they will fit on regular long board trucks, that said I also ended up getting some jbweld to seal the deal because otherwise the initial torque shakes the heck out of the whole assembly.
3) The VESC is a ESC (electronic speed controller) that is open source hardware made by Benjamin Vedder, I have had 2 other ESCs before I managed to get a VESC (they were back ordered) and it is so so so much better than the other two I had previously tried. First one burnt out... why I'm not entirely sure but the ESC is what takes the power from the battery and delivers it to the motor and is responsible for firing the voltage through the wires to the motor in order at high speed to keep it spinning so it is a key component. The VESC takes some learning but ultimately you can plug it in via USB and program it with a GUI made by Benjamin that is really great once you get your head around it and will show you live information about voltage and draw and allows you to fine tune the limits for reducing power and cutting off power from the battery (if the voltage on a LiPo battery is too low it can't be recharged). The batteries themselves are typically rated with a C rating like 10C or 20C, that is a discharge rate, you multiple the mAh value by the C value to get the total discharge rate... for example say you have a 8000mAh (8Ah) battery with 10C, that means peak discharge is 80A (8Ah*10C=80A). From my personal experience you typically have a hard time finding an ESC that can deal with the battery discharge rather than the other way around (there are lots of high discharge lipos for hobby quadcopters and helicopters and 1/5th scale RC cars).
One reason I see dull motor safer is if you have a Single belt and it snaps u will have to stop with ur foot full motor u will have the 2nd one still
Hey so would you get more distance with a mono drive than a dual? Thinking a dual would drain the battery faster with 2 motors?
Since the esc's and motors are wired in parallel from the battery, the power gets split in half. Both esc's get the same voltage but half the current. So the battery drain will be the same
I'm thinking it's all about your battery and how big it is.
So, I'm using the app you recommended on your website to calculate the speed. But is the given speed on this app realistic, or is there like a margin?
thanks
what about the current ?? it should drain the batteries quicker..!!
I'm assuming, your two motor are connected in series as the power is equal through both, if you were to connect them in parallel wouldn't both of them equal to twice as the single motor? I'm not sure on this but I just had a science class and I just noticed this.
So is there a performance difference of, say, 100 Watt on 1 Motor vs 100 Watt spread on two? Or would you just need a stronger battery setup, that can supply 200 Watts to make use of both motors? - Basically: Is the same wattage spread across 2 motors more torque than concentrated on 1 motor? - If you have the time could you illustrate by using your 2 different space cells for an example?
Also, how about range? I assume there is a bit less range with 2 motors, since loss to friction is doubled with 2 belts? Do you have a very rough percentage on how much difference that should make?
Do you actually feel any torque steer when only using 1 Motor? (slow veering to the opposite side the motor is on)
Planning a build now and I gotta say: You make it very hard for me to even consider other brands... (compliment :D) Your stuff is just very thought out, powerful and the motors even look about as cool, high quality and futuristic, as a motor could look! :D
Thanks so much for the time! If this is difficult for you to answer here, please just tell me to send again to your homepage. Sorry, this comment kind of got away from me... ;-) This almost turned into "prospective customer questions" along the way...
I use an airplane esc= no brake.
No brake= i just broke my arm
anton arnqvist Eileen ea
Some rc plane esc have brake, just need to enable it
no arm, you broke your face
Can one control be used for both motors?
You need one ESC per motor I haven't ever seen one that can drive two motors. The ESC used in these is called the VESC. It has a communication bus called CANbus that's used in cars too for real-time communication between components. Pretty sure that same connection is used to send the signal from one VESC to another. The receiver that is paired with your transmitter would just be connected to one VESC though I believe.
You can use smaller pulleys with two motors. Better belt clearance and better top speed without stressing the motors.
Kinda unrelated to this vid but you mention wider belts have more traction which is true but how does this compare to a chain drive setup? Couldn't find anything on the forum.
I would just think that chain would give the most traction without the risk of it breaking the the belts sometimes do.
Yup I made my board with a chain drive single tacon 160. I have never used a belt yet...
Most mountain boards use chain also
hay how do. you get your stuff for it like do you get sponsored
He's the founder of the company enertion boards, he's buying the parts in bulk and assembling them (I believe in his garage) Most of the parts are being custom made for his boards and they are all high powered, the price is high but the quality seems to match from what I can tell as an outsider. Have built my own e-skateboard but seen a lot of Jason's stuff before and drooling over the battery right now since I've been running on a 6s battery and the motor can deal with twice the voltage, but I"m torn on buying a cheap arc welder and building the battery or just buying the pretty pre-made one.
Thx
For bigger wheels should we use 2 motors or 1
sainaveen k 1 motor
i live in Vietnam. i want to do a skateboard like you. you have asembled and sold off non. and how much money..you read and answer for yourselves. thanks
what about range
instead of having both motors on the inside of the trucks. why not having one motor at the rear and one in the front. that way you can put two big motors on with two big belts...
I want to see somebody put four motors on a board if possible. I know it would be really dangerous but it would accelerate so fast
It would be awesome to design a gear or belt system that can drive both back wheels using your single motor. That would mean better traction, one VESC and motor. It might be your best seller. Surely you must have thought about it already? The cost of the dual setup is my problem vs the traction problem of the single setup. Finding a solution that meets both in the middle seams to be the sweet spot?
+Electric Skateboard Builder Thanks, you should consider manufacturing. Nobody else is doing anything like that. I think it would be a hit.
you cant have both wheels always go the same speed
+Electric Skateboard Builder Hi, technically the differential system is required with a one motor/2wd setup. I've got a long experience with trying out lots of stupid things. One of them is an rc car which had two motors in the rear with direct driven wheels. It couldn't turn because the brushless 1200kv motors were spinning the exact same speed. That problem doesn't occure in an electric skateboard with two motors so why would it appear with one motor spinning two wheels? It could do something with the weight of my rc car (only 400g). it had 300w so that thing was a rocket... removing one motor and making it a trike made it usable, still calculated top speed of 106km/h... Of course Legos, balsa and hobbyking plane electronics couldn't make it to that speed, it always span...
I respect what you are doing, Jason!
+FinnishSnowmobiler Yes, given the fact that you lift one wheel when turning with a skateboard and the easy slip you have with the urethane you kinda have a natural differential. Maybe why the dual system works, so it might just be okay with a single drive as well.
+Visual Flights I think Enertion should make a prototype. It can't be so hard when made quickly. Aesthetics is a completely different thing... If it works, there's his bestseller (if someone isn't faster) ;)
Don't you lose a lot to almost all traction when you turn and put weight on the wheel without a motor 'lifting' the one with the motor?
+Electric Skateboard Builder Thanks, it was my only concern with the single drive option.
The main advantages of dual motors when it comes to how the board handles is torque and brake power. Losing traction on a single drive is a very minor issue and doesn't cause any problems while riding. It's not something you really notice.
I'm a lighter rider so I don't need the additional torque of dual motors and prefer a lighter board.
Yeah just wanted to add my 2 cents agree mostly with previous comments though too. Basically keep your back foot over the back trucks and you pretty much always have contact anyhow. Only times I really have it slipping is if I'm on uneven road and just getting moving since I typically put my front foot on the board first the back wheel attached to the motor can be off the ground at times, typically I like to push off manually a bit though too just to avoid having the motor push me from a full stop, I'm not heavy but figure it can't hurt to get moving so the motor doesn't have to overcome the static friction and start from a complete halt.
Also, if you mount your motor on your heel-side, you will have more traction since that's where your weight is.
I wonder why you didnt opted for one motor on rear on rear, and one on front?
Thank you, that makes a lot of sense! I saw you have hub motors on your Raptor 2? What are your thoughts about 4WD version? I know there is weight penalty, but I wonder what are benefits of 4WD over 2WD?
nuts is GOOD
ok what about quad motor electric skateboard
Hi, i wonder if single motor can affect the handling?
Nice video by the way!
I hope for your reply, thanks
Thanks for the advice
Is Casey an ozzy?
Aussie?
Higher or lower kv motor for dual setup? Choosing between 190kv and 230kv 6355?
Have the following options 190kv 2200W, 230kv 2200W 190kv 2400W, 230kv 2400W,
Note : motors are Alien Power System.
Denasdc Do you have a solution for it. Have the same idea of mackig a dual
Well no, but the rule of thumb is to use lower kv motor with higher voltages. With dual setup you will not need higher torque as for one motor because two motors will share the stress. So I'd say you can go higher kv for dual setup, just watch that the motors are between 200-300kv. But I'm saying: dual motor will have better climbing capabilities as well as faster speeds. But it's your choice: faster(higher kv, 230kv), or better hill climbing (lower kv, 190kv). BTW there will be less heat on the dual motor as it's not stressed as much, therefore will last longer.
Thanks for the info. I will do a dual setup with just one high power esc. lets see how it goes
Not recommended because it has higher chances of burning the esc under the load. Exactly the same as for the motor. It's always good to use one esc per motor: less chances of stressing the esc as the stress will be shared between the escs, if you burn one esc it will be easier to change the cheap one than expensive one.
But it's all on you what you decide.
Both variants are expensive. But if i pick an esc with lots of buffer it will work just fine without any stress, hopefully. I will see, its just an experiment anyway...
The pros are more space, (cheaper), and less setup time
quad motor
I'm building a mono-drive electric skateboard because of the range I'll be getting.. I don't need as much torque when I don't weigh that much.
how much further will a mono go
how much further will a mono go
how much further will a mono go
very difficult to compare since with a single drive you have more horizontal space to work with so the motor can be completely different. Efficiency of the overall system is just dictated by the loss due to resistance through each of the components starting at the battery and electrical resistance all the way down to the friction of the wheels with the pavement. Only way to tell really is to build and test.
The capacity of the battery and the draw from the motors you can do some theoretical calculations on but hard to account for variable friction, weight of the rider, hill climbing or descent, and other factors. To give a rough idea, when I first accelerate from a stop I tend to draw about 20-30A for a moment but once I'm up to speed on flat ground I draw about 4-5A normally, but hit a rough patch or small hill and need to accelerate and back up to 8-10A.
My setup
149KV turnigy sk3 motor
VESC
two 5S in series to make a 10S battery (42V charged, 36 depleted)
2.1:1 tooth gearing ratio
Top speed 24mph range is mostly dependent on mAh capacity of batteries used but lies somewhere between 7 and 15 miles.
Assuming 8000mAh battery and 8A average draw it's about 8Ah/8A = 1hr of ride time
can we use a power bank instead of the batteries
its faster as in it accelerates faster...
The bigger the better, two is better than one.
"2 moters aren't necessarily faster, but this is was you should do if you want a really fast skateboard" wait what? 😂
Electric Skateboard Builder oh I only misunderstood then, thanks for explaining
I had a single motor and it died after a mile.
what you are saying is wrong mate.
if you make your wheel bigger and it's sprocket, you increase torque not speed!
Electric Skateboard Builder at 00:40 you say that by making the mechanical advantage bigger you would actually get a higher top speed which is wrong.
so if you ride a 12inch wheel bike your speed is low but when u jump on 26inch your top speed will be a lot higher
Gosia Samosia its not about the wheel. I'm taking about the sprocket or pulley! if that is larger you increase torque and lower speed!
alright I guess I just expected you to increase the size of your pulley with your wheel. I re watched and I seemed to have misunderstood.
If you are talking about the pulley/gears you are right
InHub motors are so much better
is something going on with business.. seems to me your getting less and less views.
+Electric Skateboard Builder - congratulations on the new baby man! that's awesome!
will you please give me that skateboard
Lol omg this guy...props to making his business but seriously seems like he doesn't know about theory and fact and seems like he has gotton consultation to figure out easy stuff about basic electronics 😂😂just sayin lol
hahaha c'est fou l' entreprise un skate le prix wow! €1,180.87 gros nulle pfff je ne Intéressé pas votre l' entreprise "Electric Skateboard Builder" trop chère Mais j'achète un skate 89euro + moteur 750KV 5500w 100euro + esc 150 Amp 99euro + batterie 2 lipos 200 euro = 488 euro j' ai gagne bien me économie, alors vous assez grand escrocs votre de l' argent