Just goes to show that admech need an "elitification" happen. Their units almost across the board need to be beefed up to actually justify the damn model $$$ value. Ironstriders being ~55usd isn't bad if the model itself is around 90pts in game.... But it isn't so it's pretty bad right now to buy. It's funny. Some admech technically are shockingly good if spammed but it will never be a problem because who the hell is gonna buy the models at those prices in those quantities lol
Honestly, that isn’t too bad for a Custodes Combat Patrol currently… (I say this as someone who owns 2 of the current one, and just isn’t a fan of the bikes)
@3r I originally had written 10, but then I realized "wait a minute, why would they add 10? That would be too much plastic and points for GW's new Patrols." Also, it's more models than the current SM combat patrol and I realized how fucking stupid it'd be if CUSTODES, FUCKING CUSTODES had more units.
To be fair I have about 100 hours of asemlbing painting models now... and man do I suck at painting and assabling but am awesome at sculpting and kitbashing despite coming from digital pixel art... But then again I was always good at modifying and making MOCs with Lego so...
This is true, but if you're an Ork player you better learn to kitbash quickly. Also it's a solid box to build normal the first time, then once you see the great green light you can buy a second or third one and bash away ladz
I really like the guard list but I would change one thing about it: for just a measly 25 extra points you could swap the Wyvern for a Basilisk and give the list an artillery piece that’s actually useful.
Your forgetting the Box size rule. Looking up the Baselisk it has 4 Sprues to the Wyvern’s two. I cannot speak for size but Brad had to eye it on the Sprue. So the Baselisk may not actually fit.
@@lizard56 didn’t think of that… Can we have a bigger box, as a treat? 👉👈 EDIT: Looked up the Basilisk sprues and if we shave off the cool-but-old-and-not-so-necessary upgrade sprue, we’d be left with one big sprue and a couple of smaller sprues, so maybe we can fit it if we don’t include that one?
I 100% think you should do a full episode on this again, every army. Because even if you're not making an *actual* Combat Patrol, this is definitely a great topic to have as a "don't like the Combat Patrol box? Here's one you can make yourself. Lose out on the discount sure but at least it's better than what you got!"
I had the exact same response. Just spitballing, I wonder if something like 10 skitarii, a marshall, a set of robots, and a dunecrawler would about fit the requirements. Maybe add a set of elite skitarii (infiltrators, serbrys, pteraxii) to taste.
@@Sparkyinbozo-xe9fn it basically has to be, Robots, Skitarii, and a Dominus, to get it to 400 points, but there's no way to push it above 500 in only one kit without a 3rd vehicle, and that's still a terrible CP box.
@@FlyingNinjaish Admech can be done to 545 point 1x Dominus (75) Datasmith (35) Skitarii rangers (90) Breachers (145) Kastelans (200) Total cost: 235 dollars So it can be done. Not saying it is fun. No way of doing skitarii because they are way too expensive
31:45 - one has to say here that yes, in the lore the Hydra is anti-air, but in the current rules it is ANTI-FLY, which means it works against everything that flies: Aircraft, flyers, skimmers, barges, nearly all Eldar vehicles and tanks, Marines with jumppacks, Gargoyles, Angron ... everything that has the FLY keyword.
I love the idea that the second Ahriman sets foot on a disc of tzeentch, barely hovering off the ground, he becomes extremely vulnerable to surface-to-air missiles.
Warhammer teaches you NOTHING. Honestly I’m amazed anyone plays this hobby considering the barriers to entry for playing it. You get 2 combat patrols. Ok I’m good to go! Wait, you need data sheets, and the rules. You get the rules, you need dice. You get dice, you need terrain. You get terrain, you need a codex/index for strategems/enhancements. You want secondaries? Mission pack.
They do have that in the Leviathan book, as well as the Combat Patrol PDFs for each army. Example: "A Winged Tyranid Prime of dread reputation, the Terror of Vardenghast can reposition rapidly or swoop into the heart of melee to eviscerate the foe. It can even drop from above the battlefield to deploy where it is needed most, but doing so may leave your units without the vital synapse network they need to fight effectively. The Terror of Vardenghast can channel a portion of the Hive Mind's will, bolstering the offensive power of your swarms to new heights. This Warlord will be a priority target for your foe, so be sure to support it with other units." They have a paragraph like that for every unit in the Combat Patrol, for each Combat Patrol.
that would double the cost of the boxes because then theyd have to actually THINK about how to play these or if theyre even usable GW needs that more than us.
my local hobby group was actually talking about doing something similar! Do a small 500 point beginners-tourney, but make your own combat patrol! we added restrictions like only one monster/vehicle/walker in a list and no individual unit over 250 points. We also excluded primarchs and named characters. folks came up with some really great lists! :)
@@LordCrate-du8zm knights were a BIG point of debate, luckily our local knight players also have secondary armies they play...and at 500 points not many armies can bring the kind of anti-tank that is required to bring down a knight
@@LordCrate-du8zmI think a Knight might actually struggle, depending on the points, because chances are it won't be able to take and hold enough points to win. Very much a case of "won the battle, lost the war."
I am a gamedesigner and I worked for tabletop and boardgames 20years ago. I started working on my own competitive edition and holly cow, it was so easy to do it better.
Corporate will always prioritize putting the least amount of plastic in the box as they can get away with, so unless they're cleaning out warehouses before updating a model, as was the case of the old termagants in the previous Tyranid CP, older sprues with elbow room and models with lots of extra bits for build options won't ever win out over monopose and ETB launch box surplus kits.
So IG does have a generic no name single model HQ in the Cadian Castellan. If you were to swap the Command Squad for a Castellan, then you could switch the Wyvern for a Chimera and all the troopers could ride in it. 3 sets of this and a pair of Basilisks would be an incredible start to a mechanized guard army. Edit: this may be too much plastic, since they combined the two Russ boxes that tank is a tonne of plastic. You get a tank and a half in every box if they want to include all the cannons, because of how the sprues are laid out. That said, you could cut the old Demolisher sprue and only give half the options to save space. Upside, no chode, downside, no plasma.
I actually forgot about the Bullgryns/Ogryns. It would be awesome to have them in the box as well (if a little odd as a starting point). But honestly feels too generous for GW. With the more recent sets it feels like they've moved from targeting 500pts and 30 to 40 percent discount to about 400pts and a 20 to 30 percent discount.
They could still include the Command Squad kit, and simply give people the option of running the main leader character as a Cadian Castellan instead. It would make Chimeras more possible (albeit you couldn't use both the Command Squad AND the Chimera). And it would make multiple box purchases more viable.
@@200Rats_in_a_Trench_Coat Brad is just the kind of guy that hates vanilla without ever having tasted good vanilla ice cream. And they clearly don't play IG as well
Not only do Ogryns and Bullgryns build from the same kit, but you can also build one as either a Bullgryn Bodyguard, or Nork Deddog - a named Bullgryn character.
Wait, they ALL come from the same kit? I assumed the different torso styles meant they kind of HAD to be different kits. Do they just have alternate or add-on parts for that?
Ogryns and Bullgryns are the same kit: I bought 2 of it to build ogryns and bought a box of 6 Ogor Maneaters (cheaper than even 3 ogryns let alone 6) to kitbash the Bullgryn bits onto. Took a lot of sawing and greenstuffing, but worked like a charm!
I definitely would love this as a series. Would love to see Death Guard, Chaos Daemons and I would find it funny if they made a chaos knights combat patrol that is just the wardog box with an extra wardog.
LoV has the problem of lacking model range (I'm a LoV player) Also, the box isnt horrible, the discount is low yes, ( I would change the berzerks, that are a pain to built, for thunderkin ) but starting LoV with 2 combat patrols isnt a bad choice
With space wolves you'd need to use all firstborn to make use of their specific units and keep it cohesive, and that limits options a lot. My plan for this was really simple: iron priest (as non-named SW specific character), thunderwolf cavalry, predator, and the contents of a blood claws box, which have to have either 10 blood claws or 5 grey hunters, but you can choose whichever units to fill out the rest of the box. It ranges from 490-565pts and can have 6 units at most but it's flexible to build and avoids generic units
@@Jfk2Mr it'd be too expensive points wise, and if you replaced the predator you'd lose any weapon better than S7. I'm all for free rhinos but there has to be a limit somewhere
Also, I’ve started listening to the Fall of Cadia audiobook. I immediately hated every voice the narrator chose for every character. So I looked up what other audiobooks he did, and saw he was the guy who did the Ahriman books as well. Haven’t listened to those, but I do remember Brad giving his thoughts on that performance.
@@thepoorhammerpodcast I struggle with 40K audiobooks period, because I can't handle a voice intoning terms like "The Librarium Magnificum" and "the Cruxicus Ad Nauseum" at me for six hours, so I already just bought this one on Kindle and am reading it with my eye-parts. I'm giving 40K audiobooks one more chance in the hopes that maybe it's just a Space Marines thing because so far all of my 40K audiobooks have been Spess Mehreens, cause, well, they're my boys.
@@StarkMaximumHave you tried Dark Imperium? John Banks singlehandedly restored my faith in black library VAs, with Dark Imperium and Infinite and the Divine.
I think the Guard CP (your version) could be improved by replacing the hydra with another cadian squad and a sentinel. You need at least 60 infantry (imo) for a good guard list minimum
So sadly, looking at the sprues, I do not think works out for size. Even if the Armored Sentinel is smaller than the Wyvern I do not think it works out for box size. Brad already used the Drukhari box for comparison. He said there may be a little space but I am not sure if we can fit another set of Cadian Shock Troops in there.
Hey guys, since you said you had a shitty week, I just wanted to say thanks because poorhammer kept me sane during my last bout of sickness two weeks ago. To the point your avatars have burned a bit in my tv so you are still there even when I'm watching other stuff xD
I really like your rendition of the Tyranids combat patrol and having a box full of duel builds is a great idea to make each purchase slightly different
Ah, one of those solid Poorhammer episodes I will probably be rewatching. This could be a solid, fun series. Maybe take guests for the third army. Future episode could perhaps point back to this one for more armies to be covered. So an aspect of the “pay attention to your boxes” rules is that you do not want your cheapest model in your Combat Patrol, as mentioned in the data episode. I feel like the Character is less of a must is why that Gravis Captain is in the Dark Angels box but that one is a travesty to be honest. It does not even have the new upgrade sprue in it. Which may be box size. What makes the Dark Angels and Space Marines boxes -worse- is the fact that these were the only two good boxes. With exception of Necrons, the only new good box, they are also starting to have a bad habit of taking out the Centerpiece model. Only nids and Crons have one. For fixing AdMech, Brad and Eric have discussed it before but make it GSC II. Put in the transport/tank and another box of Skitarii. Then you would have a solid box. That probably works out on the sprue sizes but probably does not work with the bean counters. Which is why AdMech need a dataslate overhaul to be more elite. The price identity and the gameplay identities really do not match. I wonder if Thousand Sons could be helped in their codex, if one were to pull a Plague Marines/Custodes and just let you run four Rubrics.
Audio listener here to say good episode. 1000% interested in more of the crunchy numbers/rules episodes and more game design talk, those are my absolute favorite. The clickbait stuff is a nice palette cleanser sometimes, but your game design talks and crunchy breakdowns remind me why I love this podcast. Even the ones talking about an old edition I have never (and probably will never) play
Comment from 4.30 into the video, if the box was 10 hell blasters, 5 intercessors/heavy intercessors/phobos, Blade guard and a HQ that could could enter the squad, it would be okay... ish. I got 5 old DA combat patrols on sale thanks to this one coming out. WIN!
It really should be 5 terminators, 5 bikes, Belial and that special speeder they have. Special snowflake boxes should be special snowflake filled, they can get intercessors and such from any of the basic marine boxes
@WilhelmScreamer haha nahh, they had enough it wasn't showing the quantity even after my order. I did feel a little bad buying so many, but it I love dreadnought, needed inceptors, can sell the Chaplins and 25 intercessors is just more on my way to a 1000 string chapter
For Orks, I'd either drop the lootas/burnas for a Gretchin kit, or drop the Kommandos and toss in a bonus sprue of boy bodies and second Spanner, that would enable building both halves.
New players would probably struggle using that list. More importantly, it’d be difficult to balance. An all vehicle CP would wipe the floor with any CP that doesn’t have extremely good Anti Vehicle
That's 580pts with over 500 being T10 vehicles, including a vehicle that has inbuilt damage reduction. That's just unfun to face, especially when so many combat patrols don't have anything above S6
To appease GW I would probably do Death Watch vs Drukhari. You can still put a Marine on the box just not a blue one. However this is because of my insidious plan to put in an Inquisitor model that can be build many different ways like The Daemon Prince and in many different armies like the Daemon Prince. Death Watch, Sororitas, Grey Knights and Death Watch in this case. You may say, you already can. However I want Agents of the Imperium to be a full army to play as Rogue Trader or Inquisitor as the core concept. So we can limit allying out and its consequences. With some variant sheets like Grey Knights get from Marines and the Mono God Marines from CSM you could probably make it work. As for Drukhari, the edition birthday boi armt to update a range and Drukhari need one desperately.
@@lizard56I don’t think GW cares enough about Death Watch. They’re very problematic as they’re already outdated models, and they’re underdeveloped, while also being boxed out by the other marine factions. Sadly, they might be better off lumped into Agents of The Imperium
Still waiting for my Tzeentch combat patrol! It may be hard to do though, because there battle line having the split ability and blue/brimstone horrors would need to be included…
@@Bluecho4 would that work? I’m only getting about 300ish points out of that if you use the blue and brimstone horrors as backup to allow the pinks to split.
The original dark angels combat patrol was great, I bought 3 and put a jump pack in one chaplain, kitbashed one with an indomitus outrider, and kept one stock
in the UK during 8th edition. GW hosted a "Crusader Sundays" event where people would come unschedueled to play matches against eachother armed with. : "a HQ (character), a troop (battleline) and 'something cool'" that was the philosophy of the original combat patrol boxes. giving you something you could take to that. some armies got a but more than that due to being a low points value army or something but everything had at least that much.
I'd like to see a Palatine, 10 Battle Sisters, 10 Repentia, 5 Seraphim, and maybe 5 Retributors? This gives you 4 deployable units assuming you attach the Palatine to the Battle Sisters.
I agree for the most part, but it'd be a bit odd for GW to put the finecast Swooping Hawks or Striking Scorpions into a Combat Patrol, since the new plastic Scorpions weren't out at the time. But 5 Howling Banshees or even Dire Avengers would have been a fine choice in place of 3 more bikes. I'm with you there 100%.
You should find it a massive point of pride that as someone who has never played 40k and doesn't know the rules very well I can still follow along pretty easily and understand most of your video content at least on a basic level
I really liked this format. I clicked immediately hoping you guys revamped the AdMech :( but I understand lol. Would love to see you revamp every CP, I'm curious if you could do GSC even better. On a side note, I understand why GW wants to make Space Marine CPs not have chapter specific marines. But I still find it disappointing, the boxes would be so much cooler with a chapter specific character or unit like having the Inner Circle over Bladeguard Vets.
T'au Coldstar (110) $60 Striketeam (80) $60 Crisis Suits (200) $80 Broadside (90) $60 Totals at $260 for 480 points. It has things in it people will want and you can buy multiples to fill out a solid little army (with a couple of choice additions).
The most infuriating part in Dark Angels is the Gravis Captain and not just because he can't join any of the squads. It's because the kit for Lazarus (one of their epic hero) is also the kit for a generic DA Captain in Tacticus Armor...which was the ideal HQ to put in this box. It wouldn't fix everything, but it would solve it's most glaring problem in my opinion.
Idk about the shipping weight or sprue fitment in the box, but what comes to mind for me as a really strong combat patrol for guard would be this: cadian castellan, cadian command squad, 10 cadian shock troops (showcasing the combo stuff guard can do by having an officer and a command squad attached to the same unit), 10 kasarkin, a chimera and a leman russ shown as the nova cannon or pu isher gatling cannon variant. The castellan can attach either with the command squad on the regular cadians or to the kasarkin, the chimera can scout with the kasarkin inside and is basically a tank unto itself (plus having a lot of chimeras is not bad) and the leman russ is multibuild. By leaving either the castellan or the command squad at home you can also run the russ with a different gun, and guard collections like having lots of infantry. Cadians arent the most interesting but you can bring like 80 of them to a full sized game and that not be a terrible choice. The kasarkin are probably the most limiting here because at most you probably want 30 of them but you could run extras as tempestus scions and they are reasonably close in appearance (if i was in GW's position, id say they need to make universal "standard" and "elite" guard bodies and then regimental units would have head, arm and backpack swaps to make whatever regiment or elite guard they want, which would also make this box better too. Just make sure to have mix and match legs for posing variety). If youre feeling spicy, you could also have the castellan with the cadians, kasarkin on their own with the command squad in the chimera using it as a plasma bus (command squad can take 2 plasma guns, chimera has firing deck 2 and command vehicle so the command squad can issue orders 24" away from the chimera with master vox while firing overcharge plasma out the hatch without fear of hazardous, plus the chimera has some good daka on its own giving this list basically 2 tanks) while also tossing spare orders to the kasarkin, which also showcases some of the creative shenanigans you can get up to with guard. I know this doesnt have any artillery units and i dont really have much answer for that.
Why are TS considered difficult? - Infernal Master - Exalted Sorcerers - 10 Rubric Marines - 5 Scarab Occult Terminators - Helbrute MSRP in € is 232,50. CB price is 125€, so this comes to about 46% discount. Useful units, characters, and the Helbrute as - somewhat unfluffy, but comprimises have to be made here - "flashy unit". GW would never do this, but I'd buy it.
@@darnokx9277They can do that but almost all leader abilities in 10th only activate when actually leading a unit, making solo characters largely kinda useless unfortunately
The exalted sorcerer kit comes in a box that makes *three* and I doubt that it splits easily. Theres a reason they picked the master. Unless you mean 3 solo sorcs which is fucking crazy but... sure?
As the good folks above me point out, it would end up with Leaders without Squad. There could be one on Disk but for all that this unit looks like three elite, its actually three characters in a trench coat. It also does not work out in points, this is 855 Points. (90 for the Infernal Master, 100 per sorcerer for 300 total, 105 for the Rubrics, 215 for the Scarabs and 145 for the Hellbrute). There is also what Brad mentioned, the Box Issue. The way Rubrics work on the sprue this probably does not work out in our favor. You can drop the Sorcerers for 555 points, but not sure if it fits in the box and then the discount will come down.
I was thinking when I heard the intro "golly gee I hope they fix the IG box" and damn y'all did a great job. One thing to say about the Hydra is that anti-fly 2+ swats down skimmers, jump infantry, and other bouncy assholes. Not a terrible waste of 95pts.
Usually dont comment, but we'd love to see more reimagined Combat Patrols! CSM has a few themes you could try. -cultist heavy -mutation heavy (possessed+ obliterator&venom kit) -chaos marine boys and enough daemon engines to throw in as flashy centerpieces. And we'd love to see your takes on making Combat Patrol Daemons for each Chaos God.
For the guard box, having a chimea is still valid. Just put the bullygyrn or cadians without the command squad in the chimera chimera. Currently in CP guard do not want to attach cadians to the command squad since it too squishy and the command squad has an enchancemnt that give army wide order to all units so hiding them is way better.
Offtopic/Meta: Todays release of the Power Wash Simulator Warhammer 40k DLC will be such a boon for any WH40K themed podcast (and Black Library audio books)! People will be flocking to them in droves to listen to while cleansing the filth from the holy machines!
This was a great episode. I enjoyed the fact that you outlined rules for a good combat patrol, and acknowledged GW's position & limitations (e.g. satisfy the beancounter). I'd definitely like to see another episode line this, one for Space Marines (because it's the flagship faction) and a corrected Dark Angels (because it's my army and I want to hear what y'all have to say). Take it easy!
On for the Daemons box set, it's also worth mentioning that it's a unique case that they're also playable in Age of Sigmar, so it would be kinda hard to implement the Combat Patrol of Chaos Daemons when you also need to account for how they function in Age of Sigmar. Now I don't play AoS, but the only compromise I could think of really is to make the box provide a unit from each faction and to throw in one Daemon Prince that can be aligned to any Chaos God, so it would be something like this: Daemon Prince Flamers of Tzeentch Beast of Nurgle Daemonettes of Slannesh Skull Cannon of Khorne The MSRP for the set comes out to be $255. Now, as I've said, Daemons can be made as a special case that you can advertise their "Combat Patrol" as a 2 armies in 1 box deal since they are playable in both 40k and AoS. If Old World were to be successful than there you go, that makes it 3! All of this at the price of $160 is pretty good since you practically get a Daemon Prince for free at that point. The Khorne Chariot also can be changed to have a leader which is kinda like the IG Lemun Russ deal. It was kinda hard to find a good showcase of what each Daemon faction are good at, Bloodcrusher would have been sick to add on top of the Daemon Prince but that would be pushing it. It currently all comes out at 560 pts, which is not bad at all and you can go for two or even three boxes if you wanted to. But yeah, it'd be nice if they did themed boxes that isn't Space Marines, it would be cool to see each Chaos God showcase what their minions are capable of doing on the battlefield.
Great episode and series idea! I just got into the hobby and have bought the old DA CP, and the 9th ed Space Marine CP. I’d really like to see CSM list as I started with the chaos cult kill team to play with my buddy. Please put in obliterators, lol, as they seem to be annoying to get. Your wife’s Tyranid list was very cool and I’d probably buy 4 to build 2x one way and 2x the other. Just a great idea.
The two of you are a delight to listen to. I just found this channel, but it's exactly the itch I wanted to scratch. I love lore videos, and I love painting videos, but you rarely get the meta discussion about the hobby. The only other UA-camr I know of that regularly does this is E0nsOfBattle, it's definitely a good niche to be in.
Great episode, I think it would be really cool if the space marines had maybe three generic chapter specific boxes that way each one of those could have a specific specialty, but could also be used no matter what chapter you play
Brad might feel pain when I say they use to have his Guard combat patrol as the "Defence force"es, which came in Cadian and Catachan Flavors. It swaps out the Ogryns for heavy weapon squads, the wyvern for a chimera, and add an extra infantry squad. And it was cheaper than the current combat patrol, even discounts and inflations factored in.
I wood ad an imperial agendas combad patrol : 1 sniper assassin, 2 imperial knights armiger and 10 abitratoren. It makes 480 points and you get an 40% dicaunt. And you can play it as an imperial knight combad patrol an agendas combadpatrol and you can buy it if you want Allis for your imperial armees.
As a guard plate here is what I would do for guard. It involves this one simple trick. Basically how the Leman Russ kit works is there is one bottom sprue and two top sprues. The top sprues each contain one of the russes two turrets and the rest of the hull. So basically if you put those three Leman Russ sprues in you can add an entire extra Leman Russ for just 1 3rd of the price of a Leman Russ. So basically here is the list. 1 leman Russ that can be a:battle cannon, vanquisher, exterminator or eradicator. 1 leman Russ that can be a: demolisher, executioner or punisher. 1 heavy weapons squad 1 box of bullgryn 1 box of cadian shock troupes 1 cadian command squad. The reasoning for swapping the bullgryn for a heavy weapons squad is for increased customization. If you wanted to you could fit the heavy weapons into the cadian squad and make infantry squads. It’s way more value but is actually less plastic than your list.
World Eaters is my main love at the moment. That being said the combat patrol isn’t good. People say it’s good because it’s got so many points and really solid savings but the list is pretty sad, especially you considering battle forces will have zerkers without fail. So I’m gonna give you all three ideas, a grounded one, a wacky one and a terrible one. Firstly the grounded one, we just swap the second unit of zerkers for eightbound. The next one the wacky one. We start with 10 zerkers, 3 exalted, a rhino and they’re all lead by a moe. It’s over 500 pts but a bit wanting in the savings department. So we’re going to include the unofficial World eaters upgrade sprue, the citadel skulls kit. In case you haven’t gotten it yet it’s wacky because we’re gonna be really encouraging people into the kitbashing/hobby side of WE. The moe will have instructions for using bits from the zerks as well more skulls to really help him stand out. Selling extra skulls every time someone buys two is just a bonus for the beans counter. Buying two gets you an awesome 1k list that’s already balanced, just drop a moe or 5 zerks and help yourself to a glaive. Lastly the terrible one which I like to can “thousands sons but good” 20 jakhals, 5 terminators and a demon prince. Is it breaking the character should be a leader rule? Kinda. It’s the character too powerful? Maybe. Will it feel like world eaters when you’re big model swoops in after huffing daemon steroids and bath salts to eat face? Yes, I do believe so.
Brad, a quick way to change the IG patrol around to make it more like Drukhari / get a single HQ, is to use the Cadian Castellan. He can lead the single squad of shock troops allowing you to trade out the bulgryn for something like attilan rough riders or tempestous scions. Then the wyvern becomes a chimera holding one of the 2 troops and issuing an order allowing for a fun battlefield flexability while learning a new and unique army rule!
I'd like to see Deathwatch covered. They have a unique battleline unit in the Veterans team, and a unique profile with the Terminator squad. I'd re-work it as follows, from the current combat patrol: - 1 Watch Master or Captain - 2 Deathwatch Veterans Squads - 1 Deathwatch Terminator Squad - 1 Outrider Squad This configuration allows you to build a Proteus Kill Team, which consists of a baseline of 5 Veterans, then up to 4 Terminators, 2 Bikes, and any number of Veterans for a squad of 10 units. The only downside is that it'd suck for Kill Team lol I'd be interested in seeing what you two would come up with.
Made an altered version of the Tyranid CP that was listed. Managed to get the points down to 515 (instead of 600) while keeping the feel, I think. Dropped the Hive Tyrant for a Winged TP and added warriors for it to lead. Makes the Maleceptor feel like a real centerpiece model since it isn't competing with the HT for stature. The Hive Tyrant seemed oppressive to have in the original list with all the high strength ranged weapons already included via Zoanthropes and Maleceptor. 1x Winged Tyranid Prime (65 pts): Warlord, Prime Talons 10x Hormagaunts (65 pts): Hormagaunt talons 3x Tyranid Warriors with Melee Bio-Weapons (85 pts) • 1x Tyranid Prime: Tyranid Warrior Claws and Talons • 2x Tyranid Warrior: Tyranid Warrior Claws and Talons 3x Zoanthropes (110 pts) • 1x Neurothrope: Warp Blast, Xenos Claws and Teeth • 2x Zoanthrope: Warp Blast, Xenos Claws and Teeth 1x Ripper Swarms (20 pts): Xenos Claws and Teeth, Spinemaw 1x Maleceptor (170 pts): Massive Scything Talons, Psychic Overload
That revised imperial combat patrol is neat; I would actually consider getting that box IF it had ogryns (although, from what I remember, Bullgryns cost more in points than regular Ogryns).
I would've left the Sentinel instead of adding the Wyvern. The issue with it is that, similar to the Hydra, it's a very skewed datasheet. It focuses too much on anti-horde and that's just gonna be useless against some lists (or armies in general), whereas the Sentinel is a general purpose platform. Also, I was gonna say to not sweat so much on the Cadian part since that uniform is just theg generic Guard one and could just build something like Necromundans or Harakonis, but it's true the Flag will still display the Cadian coat of arms.
Easily one of my favorite videos from yall!! Super interesting choices and honestly a ton of creativity. I would love to see your guys' take on the Space Wolves (it just doesn't feel right even with the Hounds of Morkai) and C.S.M. (Even though they are still a sore spot for Brad)
My only wish in life is that poorhammer could be a twice a week occurrence with both 40K and AOS and that these guys could do well enough to be fully supported by their podcast. Great episode!
Ngl, I was hyped to see the title of this episode thinking it was an attempt to rebuild the old Combat Patrol/Patrol Clash rules for 10th, and now I'm crushed lol.
@uwesca6263 that would be cool. With their reach it helps get it out there faster. I've tried doing it myself, but I don't have a big enough group to test.
while i like idea for tyranids combat patrol you prezent 2 monster could be unkillable for most cp, i would probably changing hive tyrant for smaler hq and some more chaf (or maybe swapping second monster for hive guards for swarmlord to lead)
I'd love to see y'all do other combat patrols! I don't have any that I'd specifically request, but despite having zero interest in the three armies here, I thought this was a fun episode. I guess if you force me, I'd be curious to see what you do with CSM and Tau just because those are my own armies, but honestly the Tau box feels like it's in a decent spot.
I think for Blood Angels - 5x Jump Assault Intercessors 5x Infiltrators/Incursors 1x Jump Captain 1x Brutalis Dread 1x BA Upgrade Sprue That's sticking with the "no firstborn" rule and avoiding special characters or chapter specific units.
Looking back at this I'd actually say the Combat Patrol Blood Angels got was surprisingly great; 6 Sang guard can be run as 2x3 or 1x6 - spare weapons mean you can use that pile of Imperium Issue 1 Lt. models you totally have there to make bladeguard with spears or something else cool. Captain is multipart kit - can defo get at least 3 characters out of this if you have some spare bodies to put the bits on. Can also be run as Death Company Captain. 10 Assault intercessors can be run as 2x5 if desired but hey, what's this? 2 whole NEW upgrade sprues! That means not only do you have a whole army's worth of bits to put on your future purchases, but you can now run these guys as Death Company with the optimum loadout. Everything in this box is currently good for Blood Angels. And if you have jump packs lying about you can make jump intercessors or death company as well. 2 Boxes gives you around 1000pts depending on how you build stuff, and despite being a bit heavy on the Sang Guard is a playable list.
You can ask 10 different wargamers on what should be in a starter box, and you would get 11 different arguments. These are just fine, and while I would do differently on the orks and imperial guard, I would buy the combat patrols discussed here.
If I had all the power, I would make a "start collecting" box that was ~1000 points for each army at a good value that contained some of your big, iconic center-piece models, making repeat purchases of dubious value, and a sampling of whatever else the faction has as staples. World Eaters would contain Agron, K-Sons would have Magnus, etc. Then, each time a codex comes out with all of the new detachments, you would do a limited run of combat patrols based on those detachments, stuffing them with newer models. Hypothetically (and with very little math on my part): The Ironstorm Spearhead would have a techmarine, a dreadnought and a repulsor; Firestorm assault would have aggressors, infernus marines and a land raider. Etc. From GW's perspective, you get to set the starting point of the hobby higher with 1000 points, thereby selling more models. and by lining up the launch of the patrols with the codex, anyone who wants to try the new thing has the perfect entry point. Want to try a new faction - get the starter box and two combat patrols - done, you now have a whole army. It'll also add an incentive to balance the detachments appropriately so they don't sit on the shelf, and you get to sell your inventory in chunks rather than pieces. And if you wanted to give Space Marines extra, you could do Combat Patrols based on chapters and/or armor types. Tell me you wouldn't shell out for Combat Patrol: Gravis Armor.
World Eaters seems like a pretty easy fix, replacing one of the 10 man Berzerker squads with 3 Eightbound. All of a sudden the box becomes much more repeatable. Berzerkers are always nice, Jakhals are handy as a cheap cultist unit to fill points / distract / hold objectives, and both the Juggernaut and Eightbound are dual kits so you can try out some different variants. It also has the benefit of being lower in points to help sell the “balanced around 500 points” thing.
Death Guard Combat Patrol:
1x Typhus
80x Poxwalker
I’d buy that
Dont give GW any ideas!
@@ironcraft1837 its still not legal
@@dragonofdragons1720 that’s the joke
@@SuperDuperHappyTime so is the fact that it would not be legal like the current one wasn't in 8th and 9th edition
One of the hilarious things about the AdMech Combat Patrol is that you can add 4 Ironstider Ballistarii to it and it still doesn't break 500 points!
When I saw this, I had to pause the video, and out loud exclaimed:
"That can't be true"
Then I ran the points
And it is true.
I'm so naive. I genuinely thought they were all around 450 to 550 in points
if it consider as lore accurate where body count means nothing
You'll break your wallet before breaking 500 points.
Just goes to show that admech need an "elitification" happen.
Their units almost across the board need to be beefed up to actually justify the damn model $$$ value. Ironstriders being ~55usd isn't bad if the model itself is around 90pts in game.... But it isn't so it's pretty bad right now to buy.
It's funny. Some admech technically are shockingly good if spammed but it will never be a problem because who the hell is gonna buy the models at those prices in those quantities lol
Oh boy! I can’t wait for the reworked Custodes Combat Patrol:
- Five Custodian Guard
- Five Sisters of Silence
- One Blade Champion
Imagine the GSC one:
-Two Neophyte squads
-One Jackal squad
-One Kelermorph
Honestly, that isn’t too bad for a Custodes Combat Patrol currently…
(I say this as someone who owns 2 of the current one, and just isn’t a fan of the bikes)
@3r I originally had written 10, but then I realized "wait a minute, why would they add 10? That would be too much plastic and points for GW's new Patrols."
Also, it's more models than the current SM combat patrol and I realized how fucking stupid it'd be if CUSTODES, FUCKING CUSTODES had more units.
I just today bit the bullet to start custodes because I’m kinda afraid that if I wait they’ll replace the box with something worse
@@mckmitte I'm gonna do that with Black Templars and Blood Angels. Excellent value boxes and I don't want to lose either.
“Now one important note is that these are for beginners”
Eric: “so this kit is built around kitbashing”
Love you guys❤️
To be fair I have about 100 hours of asemlbing painting models now... and man do I suck at painting and assabling but am awesome at sculpting and kitbashing despite coming from digital pixel art... But then again I was always good at modifying and making MOCs with Lego so...
This is true, but if you're an Ork player you better learn to kitbash quickly. Also it's a solid box to build normal the first time, then once you see the great green light you can buy a second or third one and bash away ladz
To be fair, can only have those extras arms and sprues around for so long before you look at the stack and think "what if..."
I really like the guard list but I would change one thing about it: for just a measly 25 extra points you could swap the Wyvern for a Basilisk and give the list an artillery piece that’s actually useful.
Was about to comment this!
Not just that; useful, and above all _iconic_ for the Guard.
Your forgetting the Box size rule. Looking up the Baselisk it has 4 Sprues to the Wyvern’s two. I cannot speak for size but Brad had to eye it on the Sprue.
So the Baselisk may not actually fit.
@@lizard56 didn’t think of that…
Can we have a bigger box, as a treat? 👉👈
EDIT: Looked up the Basilisk sprues and if we shave off the cool-but-old-and-not-so-necessary upgrade sprue, we’d be left with one big sprue and a couple of smaller sprues, so maybe we can fit it if we don’t include that one?
@@Hello-bp8dxIf DE gets a bigger box...
I 100% think you should do a full episode on this again, every army. Because even if you're not making an *actual* Combat Patrol, this is definitely a great topic to have as a "don't like the Combat Patrol box? Here's one you can make yourself. Lose out on the discount sure but at least it's better than what you got!"
Ditto
Me: can't wait to see how they try to fix admech's combat patrol!
Brad&Eric: *meme of the dude putting a hand on my shoulder*
There is no fixing some problems in life.
I had the exact same response. Just spitballing, I wonder if something like 10 skitarii, a marshall, a set of robots, and a dunecrawler would about fit the requirements. Maybe add a set of elite skitarii (infiltrators, serbrys, pteraxii) to taste.
@inbozo-xe9fn Have the skitarii be rangers add the data smith for the robots instead of an elite choice and you come to 500 points exactly.
@@Sparkyinbozo-xe9fn it basically has to be, Robots, Skitarii, and a Dominus, to get it to 400 points, but there's no way to push it above 500 in only one kit without a 3rd vehicle, and that's still a terrible CP box.
@@FlyingNinjaish Admech can be done to 545 point
1x Dominus (75) Datasmith (35) Skitarii rangers (90) Breachers (145) Kastelans (200)
Total cost: 235 dollars
So it can be done. Not saying it is fun. No way of doing skitarii because they are way too expensive
31:45 - one has to say here that yes, in the lore the Hydra is anti-air, but in the current rules it is ANTI-FLY, which means it works against everything that flies: Aircraft, flyers, skimmers, barges, nearly all Eldar vehicles and tanks, Marines with jumppacks, Gargoyles, Angron ... everything that has the FLY keyword.
exxactly and even if the enemy is not flying, its still 4 shots twin linked autocannons, they are great and still cheap
CoH wirbelwind flashbacks
I main Tau.... hydras used correctly can give me a bit of a bad time
I love the idea that the second Ahriman sets foot on a disc of tzeentch, barely hovering off the ground, he becomes extremely vulnerable to surface-to-air missiles.
The Hydra, being autocannons, is also a dedicated marine killer since it hits the perfect break point.
You know what combat patrols could really use, battleplans. A quick rundown on how to play the army would really help new players.
Warhammer teaches you NOTHING.
Honestly I’m amazed anyone plays this hobby considering the barriers to entry for playing it.
You get 2 combat patrols. Ok I’m good to go! Wait, you need data sheets, and the rules. You get the rules, you need dice. You get dice, you need terrain. You get terrain, you need a codex/index for strategems/enhancements. You want secondaries? Mission pack.
They do have that in the Leviathan book, as well as the Combat Patrol PDFs for each army. Example:
"A Winged Tyranid Prime of dread reputation, the Terror of Vardenghast can reposition rapidly or swoop into the heart of melee to eviscerate the foe. It can even drop from above the battlefield to deploy where it is needed most, but doing so may leave your units without the vital synapse network they need to fight effectively. The Terror of Vardenghast can channel a portion of the Hive Mind's will, bolstering the offensive power of your swarms to new heights. This Warlord will be a priority target for your foe, so be sure to support it with other units."
They have a paragraph like that for every unit in the Combat Patrol, for each Combat Patrol.
@@masterworklongsword the app also has most of this info as well
that would double the cost of the boxes because then theyd have to actually THINK about how to play these or if theyre even usable
GW needs that more than us.
I'm a simple man, i see a poorhamer upload. I like it. I watch it, then i listen to the podcast version to hear the additional funny.
same
Follow up would love to see EVEN more of you're guy's models when you are talking about a model and you happen to own it.
The podcasts have extra? ...doo-dee-doo, off I go!
Not like a ton extra, just rougher get to hear some of the stuff the editor decides to shame brad with XD.@@Msatthew
I just dont listen to the podcast exclusively because I know I wouldnt know what units they are talking about without the pictures haha
my local hobby group was actually talking about doing something similar! Do a small 500 point beginners-tourney, but make your own combat patrol! we added restrictions like only one monster/vehicle/walker in a list and no individual unit over 250 points. We also excluded primarchs and named characters. folks came up with some really great lists! :)
Knight players in shambles rn
@@LordCrate-du8zm knights were a BIG point of debate, luckily our local knight players also have secondary armies they play...and at 500 points not many armies can bring the kind of anti-tank that is required to bring down a knight
Do any of the Primarch cost under 250 points anyway ?
@@LordCrate-du8zmI think a Knight might actually struggle, depending on the points, because chances are it won't be able to take and hold enough points to win. Very much a case of "won the battle, lost the war."
@@farseeraradrel4808 dunno. I dont play an army that has one! lol
poorhammer really went: ''fine, ill do it myself"" and actually did it better then a billion dollar company
Not hard to do. 😂
But have you thought of the shareholders 😭
I am a gamedesigner and I worked for tabletop and boardgames 20years ago.
I started working on my own competitive edition and holly cow, it was so easy to do it better.
Corporate will always prioritize putting the least amount of plastic in the box as they can get away with, so unless they're cleaning out warehouses before updating a model, as was the case of the old termagants in the previous Tyranid CP, older sprues with elbow room and models with lots of extra bits for build options won't ever win out over monopose and ETB launch box surplus kits.
Yet they still have as much power to make change as you do. Keep crying online nerd, your tears fuel the warp.
So IG does have a generic no name single model HQ in the Cadian Castellan. If you were to swap the Command Squad for a Castellan, then you could switch the Wyvern for a Chimera and all the troopers could ride in it.
3 sets of this and a pair of Basilisks would be an incredible start to a mechanized guard army.
Edit: this may be too much plastic, since they combined the two Russ boxes that tank is a tonne of plastic. You get a tank and a half in every box if they want to include all the cannons, because of how the sprues are laid out.
That said, you could cut the old Demolisher sprue and only give half the options to save space. Upside, no chode, downside, no plasma.
Castellan, 10 infantry, chimera, russ would be cool.
I actually forgot about the Bullgryns/Ogryns. It would be awesome to have them in the box as well (if a little odd as a starting point). But honestly feels too generous for GW.
With the more recent sets it feels like they've moved from targeting 500pts and 30 to 40 percent discount to about 400pts and a 20 to 30 percent discount.
They could still include the Command Squad kit, and simply give people the option of running the main leader character as a Cadian Castellan instead. It would make Chimeras more possible (albeit you couldn't use both the Command Squad AND the Chimera). And it would make multiple box purchases more viable.
@@Bluecho4 True, I just thought it was worth pointing out that a non-named single model HQ option does exist, since they seemed unaware of it.
@@200Rats_in_a_Trench_Coat Brad is just the kind of guy that hates vanilla without ever having tasted good vanilla ice cream.
And they clearly don't play IG as well
Not only do Ogryns and Bullgryns build from the same kit, but you can also build one as either a Bullgryn Bodyguard, or Nork Deddog - a named Bullgryn character.
BIG BRAIN
Oh, thank you. I listened to the audio version and knew there was SOME question I wanted answered by the comments.
Wait, they ALL come from the same kit? I assumed the different torso styles meant they kind of HAD to be different kits. Do they just have alternate or add-on parts for that?
TIL there's a named ogryn character (and yet admech still can't get more than one)
@@Bluecho4 Took a peek at the instructions. You basically stick the body armour bits over top of the torsos.
Ogryns and Bullgryns are the same kit: I bought 2 of it to build ogryns and bought a box of 6 Ogor Maneaters (cheaper than even 3 ogryns let alone 6) to kitbash the Bullgryn bits onto. Took a lot of sawing and greenstuffing, but worked like a charm!
I definitely would love this as a series. Would love to see Death Guard, Chaos Daemons and I would find it funny if they made a chaos knights combat patrol that is just the wardog box with an extra wardog.
I deeply appreciate your game designer brains sharing realistic fixes for GW. Keep episodes like this in the rotation!
Definitely needs part two, with Space Wolves and Leagues of Votann
LoV has the problem of lacking model range (I'm a LoV player)
Also, the box isnt horrible, the discount is low yes, ( I would change the berzerks, that are a pain to built, for thunderkin ) but starting LoV with 2 combat patrols isnt a bad choice
With space wolves you'd need to use all firstborn to make use of their specific units and keep it cohesive, and that limits options a lot.
My plan for this was really simple: iron priest (as non-named SW specific character), thunderwolf cavalry, predator, and the contents of a blood claws box, which have to have either 10 blood claws or 5 grey hunters, but you can choose whichever units to fill out the rest of the box. It ranges from 490-565pts and can have 6 units at most but it's flexible to build and avoids generic units
@@greg_mcawhat about putting also a Rhino there?
@@Jfk2Mr it'd be too expensive points wise, and if you replaced the predator you'd lose any weapon better than S7. I'm all for free rhinos but there has to be a limit somewhere
I would love to see a new combat patrol for Votann,replace the beserks and pioneers with a Sagitaur and some thunderkyn ups the point value by 10.
Also, I’ve started listening to the Fall of Cadia audiobook. I immediately hated every voice the narrator chose for every character. So I looked up what other audiobooks he did, and saw he was the guy who did the Ahriman books as well. Haven’t listened to those, but I do remember Brad giving his thoughts on that performance.
Oh no. I'm suddenly not looking forward to listening to this...
@@thepoorhammerpodcast I struggle with 40K audiobooks period, because I can't handle a voice intoning terms like "The Librarium Magnificum" and "the Cruxicus Ad Nauseum" at me for six hours, so I already just bought this one on Kindle and am reading it with my eye-parts. I'm giving 40K audiobooks one more chance in the hopes that maybe it's just a Space Marines thing because so far all of my 40K audiobooks have been Spess Mehreens, cause, well, they're my boys.
@@StarkMaximumHave you tried Dark Imperium? John Banks singlehandedly restored my faith in black library VAs, with Dark Imperium and Infinite and the Divine.
That Ork list is almost exactly the next things I bought after the Combat Patrol when I got into the faction lol
Looking forward to more of these mixed in with the other content. Sets of 3 with a guest list seems fun and hopefully manageable.
I think the Guard CP (your version) could be improved by replacing the hydra with another cadian squad and a sentinel. You need at least 60 infantry (imo) for a good guard list minimum
For a Guard infantry list 100% even if we're sticking to the Combat Patrol 500~ point concept I would still want at least 20 + HQs
So sadly, looking at the sprues, I do not think works out for size.
Even if the Armored Sentinel is smaller than the Wyvern I do not think it works out for box size. Brad already used the Drukhari box for comparison. He said there may be a little space but I am not sure if we can fit another set of Cadian Shock Troops in there.
Hey guys, since you said you had a shitty week, I just wanted to say thanks because poorhammer kept me sane during my last bout of sickness two weeks ago. To the point your avatars have burned a bit in my tv so you are still there even when I'm watching other stuff xD
I really like your rendition of the Tyranids combat patrol and having a box full of duel builds is a great idea to make each purchase slightly different
I’ve been looking forward to an episode like this for a long time
I really hope GW listens to this one
Ah, one of those solid Poorhammer episodes I will probably be rewatching.
This could be a solid, fun series. Maybe take guests for the third army. Future episode could perhaps point back to this one for more armies to be covered.
So an aspect of the “pay attention to your boxes” rules is that you do not want your cheapest model in your Combat Patrol, as mentioned in the data episode.
I feel like the Character is less of a must is why that Gravis Captain is in the Dark Angels box but that one is a travesty to be honest. It does not even have the new upgrade sprue in it. Which may be box size.
What makes the Dark Angels and Space Marines boxes -worse- is the fact that these were the only two good boxes.
With exception of Necrons, the only new good box, they are also starting to have a bad habit of taking out the Centerpiece model. Only nids and Crons have one.
For fixing AdMech, Brad and Eric have discussed it before but make it GSC II. Put in the transport/tank and another box of Skitarii. Then you would have a solid box. That probably works out on the sprue sizes but probably does not work with the bean counters. Which is why AdMech need a dataslate overhaul to be more elite. The price identity and the gameplay identities really do not match.
I wonder if Thousand Sons could be helped in their codex, if one were to pull a Plague Marines/Custodes and just let you run four Rubrics.
Cool episode. I look forward to a part 2 covering ad mech, Daemons, and T'au
Audio listener here to say good episode. 1000% interested in more of the crunchy numbers/rules episodes and more game design talk, those are my absolute favorite. The clickbait stuff is a nice palette cleanser sometimes, but your game design talks and crunchy breakdowns remind me why I love this podcast. Even the ones talking about an old edition I have never (and probably will never) play
Comment from 4.30 into the video, if the box was 10 hell blasters, 5 intercessors/heavy intercessors/phobos, Blade guard and a HQ that could could enter the squad, it would be okay... ish.
I got 5 old DA combat patrols on sale thanks to this one coming out. WIN!
Damn, what placce was clearing them?
It really should be 5 terminators, 5 bikes, Belial and that special speeder they have. Special snowflake boxes should be special snowflake filled, they can get intercessors and such from any of the basic marine boxes
@@WilhelmScreamer amazon
@@dragonling748dang, you must have sniped them all then
@WilhelmScreamer haha nahh, they had enough it wasn't showing the quantity even after my order.
I did feel a little bad buying so many, but it I love dreadnought, needed inceptors, can sell the Chaplins and 25 intercessors is just more on my way to a 1000 string chapter
For Orks, I'd either drop the lootas/burnas for a Gretchin kit, or drop the Kommandos and toss in a bonus sprue of boy bodies and second Spanner, that would enable building both halves.
a tech marine and one of each of the three dreadnoughts is about 500-550 points, a perfect combat patrol for space Marines
And that's how you make an iron Hands Combat Patrol
that’s roughly the correct points value, but c’mon, that’s a slant list, not a beginner-friendly list, a noob opponent would hate fighting that 😆
New players would probably struggle using that list. More importantly, it’d be difficult to balance. An all vehicle CP would wipe the floor with any CP that doesn’t have extremely good Anti Vehicle
That's 580pts with over 500 being T10 vehicles, including a vehicle that has inbuilt damage reduction. That's just unfun to face, especially when so many combat patrols don't have anything above S6
Now do 11th Edition Launch Boxes and god help me if you use Space Marines
Curveball, 11th edition starter set is Grey Knights vs Emperor's Children
To appease GW I would probably do Death Watch vs Drukhari. You can still put a Marine on the box just not a blue one.
However this is because of my insidious plan to put in an Inquisitor model that can be build many different ways like The Daemon Prince and in many different armies like the Daemon Prince. Death Watch, Sororitas, Grey Knights and Death Watch in this case.
You may say, you already can. However I want Agents of the Imperium to be a full army to play as Rogue Trader or Inquisitor as the core concept. So we can limit allying out and its consequences. With some variant sheets like Grey Knights get from Marines and the Mono God Marines from CSM you could probably make it work.
As for Drukhari, the edition birthday boi armt to update a range and Drukhari need one desperately.
@@robling1937I'm in for 2!
Imperial Knights Vs Iron Warriors.
@@lizard56I don’t think GW cares enough about Death Watch. They’re very problematic as they’re already outdated models, and they’re underdeveloped, while also being boxed out by the other marine factions.
Sadly, they might be better off lumped into Agents of The Imperium
Still waiting for my Tzeentch combat patrol! It may be hard to do though, because there battle line having the split ability and blue/brimstone horrors would need to be included…
They could just repackage the old Start Collecting box again, with the Blue + Brimstones kit thrown in.
@@Bluecho4 would that work? I’m only getting about 300ish points out of that if you use the blue and brimstone horrors as backup to allow the pinks to split.
The original dark angels combat patrol was great, I bought 3 and put a jump pack in one chaplain, kitbashed one with an indomitus outrider, and kept one stock
in the UK during 8th edition. GW hosted a "Crusader Sundays" event where people would come unschedueled to play matches against eachother armed with. : "a HQ (character), a troop (battleline) and 'something cool'"
that was the philosophy of the original combat patrol boxes. giving you something you could take to that. some armies got a but more than that due to being a low points value army or something but everything had at least that much.
Your guy's ork box had the extra benefit of including a Kill Team as part of it (like gw did with a few of the Boarding Patrol boxes)
Would love to see this done for major SM and CSM chapters even those without a Combat Patrol currently.
I'd love to see more of this. It's always interesting to see how others would change the boxes of the factions I play.
With Sister's Combat patrol refresh upcoming, I'd love to see you guys take that one on.
I'd like to see a Palatine, 10 Battle Sisters, 10 Repentia, 5 Seraphim, and maybe 5 Retributors? This gives you 4 deployable units assuming you attach the Palatine to the Battle Sisters.
That was some genius work with the 'Nid box multibuilds.
I'm pretty happy with my eldar combat patrol but I wish 3 of the jetbikes were instead scorpions or hawks or something like that
I agree for the most part, but it'd be a bit odd for GW to put the finecast Swooping Hawks or Striking Scorpions into a Combat Patrol, since the new plastic Scorpions weren't out at the time. But 5 Howling Banshees or even Dire Avengers would have been a fine choice in place of 3 more bikes. I'm with you there 100%.
tbh both would be amazing options, or even a harlequin unit for funsies
You should find it a massive point of pride that as someone who has never played 40k and doesn't know the rules very well I can still follow along pretty easily and understand most of your video content at least on a basic level
I really liked this format. I clicked immediately hoping you guys revamped the AdMech :( but I understand lol. Would love to see you revamp every CP, I'm curious if you could do GSC even better.
On a side note, I understand why GW wants to make Space Marine CPs not have chapter specific marines. But I still find it disappointing, the boxes would be so much cooler with a chapter specific character or unit like having the Inner Circle over Bladeguard Vets.
The only way to go GSC better would be making the HQ unit a Gacha box for a character instead of a magus (or primus)
T'au
Coldstar (110) $60
Striketeam (80) $60
Crisis Suits (200) $80
Broadside (90) $60
Totals at $260 for 480 points. It has things in it people will want and you can buy multiples to fill out a solid little army (with a couple of choice additions).
The most infuriating part in Dark Angels is the Gravis Captain and not just because he can't join any of the squads.
It's because the kit for Lazarus (one of their epic hero) is also the kit for a generic DA Captain in Tacticus Armor...which was the ideal HQ to put in this box. It wouldn't fix everything, but it would solve it's most glaring problem in my opinion.
Berilio killed it with the effects on this video. That highlighting on the tyranids intro was slick.
We all know why they're making such shit boxes, it's because it's cheaper for them and it keeps gouging their customers.
Idk about the shipping weight or sprue fitment in the box, but what comes to mind for me as a really strong combat patrol for guard would be this: cadian castellan, cadian command squad, 10 cadian shock troops (showcasing the combo stuff guard can do by having an officer and a command squad attached to the same unit), 10 kasarkin, a chimera and a leman russ shown as the nova cannon or pu isher gatling cannon variant. The castellan can attach either with the command squad on the regular cadians or to the kasarkin, the chimera can scout with the kasarkin inside and is basically a tank unto itself (plus having a lot of chimeras is not bad) and the leman russ is multibuild. By leaving either the castellan or the command squad at home you can also run the russ with a different gun, and guard collections like having lots of infantry. Cadians arent the most interesting but you can bring like 80 of them to a full sized game and that not be a terrible choice. The kasarkin are probably the most limiting here because at most you probably want 30 of them but you could run extras as tempestus scions and they are reasonably close in appearance (if i was in GW's position, id say they need to make universal "standard" and "elite" guard bodies and then regimental units would have head, arm and backpack swaps to make whatever regiment or elite guard they want, which would also make this box better too. Just make sure to have mix and match legs for posing variety). If youre feeling spicy, you could also have the castellan with the cadians, kasarkin on their own with the command squad in the chimera using it as a plasma bus (command squad can take 2 plasma guns, chimera has firing deck 2 and command vehicle so the command squad can issue orders 24" away from the chimera with master vox while firing overcharge plasma out the hatch without fear of hazardous, plus the chimera has some good daka on its own giving this list basically 2 tanks) while also tossing spare orders to the kasarkin, which also showcases some of the creative shenanigans you can get up to with guard. I know this doesnt have any artillery units and i dont really have much answer for that.
Why are TS considered difficult?
- Infernal Master
- Exalted Sorcerers
- 10 Rubric Marines
- 5 Scarab Occult Terminators
- Helbrute
MSRP in € is 232,50. CB price is 125€, so this comes to about 46% discount. Useful units, characters, and the Helbrute as - somewhat unfluffy, but comprimises have to be made here - "flashy unit". GW would never do this, but I'd buy it.
cause then you end up with a ton of leaders with no squads to command
@@redrix1787 Can they not still zip around on their own? I must confess I did not play 10th yet and am not that much into their theorycrafting.
@@darnokx9277They can do that but almost all leader abilities in 10th only activate when actually leading a unit, making solo characters largely kinda useless unfortunately
The exalted sorcerer kit comes in a box that makes *three* and I doubt that it splits easily. Theres a reason they picked the master.
Unless you mean 3 solo sorcs which is fucking crazy but... sure?
As the good folks above me point out, it would end up with Leaders without Squad. There could be one on Disk but for all that this unit looks like three elite, its actually three characters in a trench coat.
It also does not work out in points, this is 855 Points. (90 for the Infernal Master, 100 per sorcerer for 300 total, 105 for the Rubrics, 215 for the Scarabs and 145 for the Hellbrute).
There is also what Brad mentioned, the Box Issue. The way Rubrics work on the sprue this probably does not work out in our favor.
You can drop the Sorcerers for 555 points, but not sure if it fits in the box and then the discount will come down.
Great episode. Not only would more like this be great, but seeing variants for each faction would be fun!
I was thinking when I heard the intro "golly gee I hope they fix the IG box" and damn y'all did a great job.
One thing to say about the Hydra is that anti-fly 2+ swats down skimmers, jump infantry, and other bouncy assholes. Not a terrible waste of 95pts.
It's also a dedicated marine killer in weapon strength and damage, which makes it very helpful in 10th
Usually dont comment, but we'd love to see more reimagined Combat Patrols! CSM has a few themes you could try.
-cultist heavy
-mutation heavy (possessed+ obliterator&venom kit)
-chaos marine boys
and enough daemon engines to throw in as flashy centerpieces.
And we'd love to see your takes on making Combat Patrol Daemons for each Chaos God.
Chaos Lord, Legionaries, Terminators, and a maulerfiend would be a good chaos Combat Patrol (definitely an improvement over the current one).
the imperial guard redesigned box looks so god damn good
Man I love the current Nobz. The bigger heads suit orks more than the new tiny heads.
I like the old ork models in general
Man, I would be so keen if the Guard one became the actual Combat Patrol box.
For the guard box, having a chimea is still valid. Just put the bullygyrn or cadians without the command squad in the chimera chimera. Currently in CP guard do not want to attach cadians to the command squad since it too squishy and the command squad has an enchancemnt that give army wide order to all units so hiding them is way better.
Offtopic/Meta: Todays release of the Power Wash Simulator Warhammer 40k DLC will be such a boon for any WH40K themed podcast (and Black Library audio books)! People will be flocking to them in droves to listen to while cleansing the filth from the holy machines!
This was a great episode. I enjoyed the fact that you outlined rules for a good combat patrol, and acknowledged GW's position & limitations (e.g. satisfy the beancounter). I'd definitely like to see another episode line this, one for Space Marines (because it's the flagship faction) and a corrected Dark Angels (because it's my army and I want to hear what y'all have to say). Take it easy!
I would LOVE to see all of the other combat patrol designs y'all can come up with!
Can't wait to see the rest of your combat patrol rework ideas!
I would be interested in seeing a necron combat patrol, and I'm happy to see this series continue! Best of luck to you both, see ya next week
On for the Daemons box set, it's also worth mentioning that it's a unique case that they're also playable in Age of Sigmar, so it would be kinda hard to implement the Combat Patrol of Chaos Daemons when you also need to account for how they function in Age of Sigmar. Now I don't play AoS, but the only compromise I could think of really is to make the box provide a unit from each faction and to throw in one Daemon Prince that can be aligned to any Chaos God, so it would be something like this:
Daemon Prince
Flamers of Tzeentch
Beast of Nurgle
Daemonettes of Slannesh
Skull Cannon of Khorne
The MSRP for the set comes out to be $255. Now, as I've said, Daemons can be made as a special case that you can advertise their "Combat Patrol" as a 2 armies in 1 box deal since they are playable in both 40k and AoS. If Old World were to be successful than there you go, that makes it 3! All of this at the price of $160 is pretty good since you practically get a Daemon Prince for free at that point. The Khorne Chariot also can be changed to have a leader which is kinda like the IG Lemun Russ deal. It was kinda hard to find a good showcase of what each Daemon faction are good at, Bloodcrusher would have been sick to add on top of the Daemon Prince but that would be pushing it. It currently all comes out at 560 pts, which is not bad at all and you can go for two or even three boxes if you wanted to.
But yeah, it'd be nice if they did themed boxes that isn't Space Marines, it would be cool to see each Chaos God showcase what their minions are capable of doing on the battlefield.
I'd be interested in an army variations episode. Such as what would a cult of speed patrol look like ect. Hope your week gets better Brad
Loved every new combat patrol!! Would love to see more episodes with different factions!!
This was a great episode, would love to see more of it, as well as all thestuff about themed boxes for more factions!
Great episode and series idea! I just got into the hobby and have bought the old DA CP, and the 9th ed Space Marine CP.
I’d really like to see CSM list as I started with the chaos cult kill team to play with my buddy. Please put in obliterators, lol, as they seem to be annoying to get.
Your wife’s Tyranid list was very cool and I’d probably buy 4 to build 2x one way and 2x the other. Just a great idea.
The two of you are a delight to listen to. I just found this channel, but it's exactly the itch I wanted to scratch. I love lore videos, and I love painting videos, but you rarely get the meta discussion about the hobby. The only other UA-camr I know of that regularly does this is E0nsOfBattle, it's definitely a good niche to be in.
Please do more!
I absolutely love tge outro to the videos. Its so fitting for you guys.
Please make this a series
Great episode, I think it would be really cool if the space marines had maybe three generic chapter specific boxes that way each one of those could have a specific specialty, but could also be used no matter what chapter you play
9th did it right for necrons. Starter box + combat patrol gave you a good spread and nothing felt like you needed to leave it out
4:15 LITERALLY, if they just did 5 heavy intercessors and 10 hellblasters the box would be at least okayish.
The Bullgryns/Ogryns box also has the parts for Nork Deadogg so thats nice.
Brad might feel pain when I say they use to have his Guard combat patrol as the "Defence force"es, which came in Cadian and Catachan Flavors. It swaps out the Ogryns for heavy weapon squads, the wyvern for a chimera, and add an extra infantry squad. And it was cheaper than the current combat patrol, even discounts and inflations factored in.
I am shocked every time I look back at the old guard boxes they used to offer
I wood ad an imperial agendas combad patrol : 1 sniper assassin, 2 imperial knights armiger and 10 abitratoren. It makes 480 points and you get an 40% dicaunt. And you can play it as an imperial knight combad patrol an agendas combadpatrol and you can buy it if you want Allis for your imperial armees.
You guys need to make this a series on your channel. Would love to see more factions with better combat patrols.
As a guard plate here is what I would do for guard. It involves this one simple trick. Basically how the Leman Russ kit works is there is one bottom sprue and two top sprues. The top sprues each contain one of the russes two turrets and the rest of the hull. So basically if you put those three Leman Russ sprues in you can add an entire extra Leman Russ for just 1 3rd of the price of a Leman Russ. So basically here is the list.
1 leman Russ that can be a:battle cannon, vanquisher, exterminator or eradicator.
1 leman Russ that can be a: demolisher, executioner or punisher.
1 heavy weapons squad
1 box of bullgryn
1 box of cadian shock troupes
1 cadian command squad.
The reasoning for swapping the bullgryn for a heavy weapons squad is for increased customization. If you wanted to you could fit the heavy weapons into the cadian squad and make infantry squads. It’s way more value but is actually less plastic than your list.
World Eaters is my main love at the moment. That being said the combat patrol isn’t good. People say it’s good because it’s got so many points and really solid savings but the list is pretty sad, especially you considering battle forces will have zerkers without fail.
So I’m gonna give you all three ideas, a grounded one, a wacky one and a terrible one.
Firstly the grounded one, we just swap the second unit of zerkers for eightbound.
The next one the wacky one. We start with 10 zerkers, 3 exalted, a rhino and they’re all lead by a moe. It’s over 500 pts but a bit wanting in the savings department. So we’re going to include the unofficial World eaters upgrade sprue, the citadel skulls kit. In case you haven’t gotten it yet it’s wacky because we’re gonna be really encouraging people into the kitbashing/hobby side of WE. The moe will have instructions for using bits from the zerks as well more skulls to really help him stand out. Selling extra skulls every time someone buys two is just a bonus for the beans counter. Buying two gets you an awesome 1k list that’s already balanced, just drop a moe or 5 zerks and help yourself to a glaive.
Lastly the terrible one which I like to can “thousands sons but good” 20 jakhals, 5 terminators and a demon prince. Is it breaking the character should be a leader rule? Kinda. It’s the character too powerful? Maybe. Will it feel like world eaters when you’re big model swoops in after huffing daemon steroids and bath salts to eat face? Yes, I do believe so.
Brad, a quick way to change the IG patrol around to make it more like Drukhari / get a single HQ, is to use the Cadian Castellan. He can lead the single squad of shock troops allowing you to trade out the bulgryn for something like attilan rough riders or tempestous scions. Then the wyvern becomes a chimera holding one of the 2 troops and issuing an order allowing for a fun battlefield flexability while learning a new and unique army rule!
if you guys do this again, I'd love to see what boxes you'd make to follow the "good" Combat Patrols like Drukhari, Grey Knights, GSC and Custodes.
I'd like to see Deathwatch covered. They have a unique battleline unit in the Veterans team, and a unique profile with the Terminator squad.
I'd re-work it as follows, from the current combat patrol:
- 1 Watch Master or Captain
- 2 Deathwatch Veterans Squads
- 1 Deathwatch Terminator Squad
- 1 Outrider Squad
This configuration allows you to build a Proteus Kill Team, which consists of a baseline of 5 Veterans, then up to 4 Terminators, 2 Bikes, and any number of Veterans for a squad of 10 units.
The only downside is that it'd suck for Kill Team lol
I'd be interested in seeing what you two would come up with.
Made an altered version of the Tyranid CP that was listed. Managed to get the points down to 515 (instead of 600) while keeping the feel, I think. Dropped the Hive Tyrant for a Winged TP and added warriors for it to lead. Makes the Maleceptor feel like a real centerpiece model since it isn't competing with the HT for stature. The Hive Tyrant seemed oppressive to have in the original list with all the high strength ranged weapons already included via Zoanthropes and Maleceptor.
1x Winged Tyranid Prime (65 pts): Warlord, Prime Talons
10x Hormagaunts (65 pts): Hormagaunt talons
3x Tyranid Warriors with Melee Bio-Weapons (85 pts)
• 1x Tyranid Prime: Tyranid Warrior Claws and Talons
• 2x Tyranid Warrior: Tyranid Warrior Claws and Talons
3x Zoanthropes (110 pts)
• 1x Neurothrope: Warp Blast, Xenos Claws and Teeth
• 2x Zoanthrope: Warp Blast, Xenos Claws and Teeth
1x Ripper Swarms (20 pts): Xenos Claws and Teeth, Spinemaw
1x Maleceptor (170 pts): Massive Scything Talons, Psychic Overload
That revised imperial combat patrol is neat; I would actually consider getting that box IF it had ogryns (although, from what I remember, Bullgryns cost more in points than regular Ogryns).
Would absolutely love an episode on the best ways to use aftermarket stores like miniswap and ebay
Please I'd do anything for another episode on this, I want to see more of these be good!
I would've left the Sentinel instead of adding the Wyvern. The issue with it is that, similar to the Hydra, it's a very skewed datasheet. It focuses too much on anti-horde and that's just gonna be useless against some lists (or armies in general), whereas the Sentinel is a general purpose platform.
Also, I was gonna say to not sweat so much on the Cadian part since that uniform is just theg generic Guard one and could just build something like Necromundans or Harakonis, but it's true the Flag will still display the Cadian coat of arms.
Easily one of my favorite videos from yall!! Super interesting choices and honestly a ton of creativity. I would love to see your guys' take on the Space Wolves (it just doesn't feel right even with the Hounds of Morkai) and C.S.M. (Even though they are still a sore spot for Brad)
My only wish in life is that poorhammer could be a twice a week occurrence with both 40K and AOS and that these guys could do well enough to be fully supported by their podcast. Great episode!
Ive been playing custom combat patrol lists with my mom and it has been really fun
Ngl, I was hyped to see the title of this episode thinking it was an attempt to rebuild the old Combat Patrol/Patrol Clash rules for 10th, and now I'm crushed lol.
Well maybe they plan on doing it.... In the future
@uwesca6263 that would be cool. With their reach it helps get it out there faster.
I've tried doing it myself, but I don't have a big enough group to test.
while i like idea for tyranids combat patrol you prezent 2 monster could be unkillable for most cp, i would probably changing hive tyrant for smaler hq and some more chaf (or maybe swapping second monster for hive guards for swarmlord to lead)
I'd love to see y'all do other combat patrols! I don't have any that I'd specifically request, but despite having zero interest in the three armies here, I thought this was a fun episode. I guess if you force me, I'd be curious to see what you do with CSM and Tau just because those are my own armies, but honestly the Tau box feels like it's in a decent spot.
I think for Blood Angels -
5x Jump Assault Intercessors
5x Infiltrators/Incursors
1x Jump Captain
1x Brutalis Dread
1x BA Upgrade Sprue
That's sticking with the "no firstborn" rule and avoiding special characters or chapter specific units.
Looking back at this I'd actually say the Combat Patrol Blood Angels got was surprisingly great;
6 Sang guard can be run as 2x3 or 1x6 - spare weapons mean you can use that pile of Imperium Issue 1 Lt. models you totally have there to make bladeguard with spears or something else cool.
Captain is multipart kit - can defo get at least 3 characters out of this if you have some spare bodies to put the bits on. Can also be run as Death Company Captain.
10 Assault intercessors can be run as 2x5 if desired but hey, what's this? 2 whole NEW upgrade sprues! That means not only do you have a whole army's worth of bits to put on your future purchases, but you can now run these guys as Death Company with the optimum loadout.
Everything in this box is currently good for Blood Angels. And if you have jump packs lying about you can make jump intercessors or death company as well. 2 Boxes gives you around 1000pts depending on how you build stuff, and despite being a bit heavy on the Sang Guard is a playable list.
You can ask 10 different wargamers on what should be in a starter box, and you would get 11 different arguments.
These are just fine, and while I would do differently on the orks and imperial guard, I would buy the combat patrols discussed here.
This seems like it could be a pretty bangin’ series
That Ork list looks like a ton of fun, and ohhh yeah, the Tyranids one would be absolutely lovely to get my paws on.
awesome episode! please make more of these "build Building better combat patrols"
If I had all the power, I would make a "start collecting" box that was ~1000 points for each army at a good value that contained some of your big, iconic center-piece models, making repeat purchases of dubious value, and a sampling of whatever else the faction has as staples. World Eaters would contain Agron, K-Sons would have Magnus, etc. Then, each time a codex comes out with all of the new detachments, you would do a limited run of combat patrols based on those detachments, stuffing them with newer models. Hypothetically (and with very little math on my part): The Ironstorm Spearhead would have a techmarine, a dreadnought and a repulsor; Firestorm assault would have aggressors, infernus marines and a land raider. Etc.
From GW's perspective, you get to set the starting point of the hobby higher with 1000 points, thereby selling more models. and by lining up the launch of the patrols with the codex, anyone who wants to try the new thing has the perfect entry point. Want to try a new faction - get the starter box and two combat patrols - done, you now have a whole army. It'll also add an incentive to balance the detachments appropriately so they don't sit on the shelf, and you get to sell your inventory in chunks rather than pieces. And if you wanted to give Space Marines extra, you could do Combat Patrols based on chapters and/or armor types. Tell me you wouldn't shell out for Combat Patrol: Gravis Armor.
World Eaters seems like a pretty easy fix, replacing one of the 10 man Berzerker squads with 3 Eightbound. All of a sudden the box becomes much more repeatable. Berzerkers are always nice, Jakhals are handy as a cheap cultist unit to fill points / distract / hold objectives, and both the Juggernaut and Eightbound are dual kits so you can try out some different variants. It also has the benefit of being lower in points to help sell the “balanced around 500 points” thing.