I am once again able to marvel at Eric's ability to participate in the hobby of playing 40k for this long without absorbing even the most basic aspects of lore. Truly fascinating, never change.
In fitting with the Alpha Legions theme of Greek letters and existing outside a binary "Alpha" and "Omega" the only logical name for Brad's Alpha Legion chapter is the Sigma Males.
FIVE TIPS TO IMPROVE YOUR NET LOYALTY WITH ALPHAMAXXING : 1-refusing to tip your servitors 2-refer to yourself exclusively in the third person and as “Alpharius” 3-surround yourself with high net-loyalty individuals 4-Cause as many problems for others as transhumanly possible 5-geneseed retention
You could also throw in some Ultramarines characters as the Toilet Bowl is just an upside down Omega Alpha Legion Calgar or Guiliman is honestly a fun concept to me
When I eventually get around to building the random Marines I have I wanted to make them Omega Marines, pretend ultramarine successors that are actually Alpha Legion. Alas, Omega Marines is already in canon@@ismael9914
Man, I wish this podcast was the first 40k content I ran into. I've spent so much time, money, and misery because no other 40k channels will emphasize the fact that it's not meant to be taken seriously and you're allowed and encouraged to make your army whatever you want.
@@epicwaba6424 i think its one of those books thatll feel better once we get a sequel, it feels more like the first half or third of a story and fails a bit at being a standalone story by the end. Still loved it tho. ADB has a way of making u want to collect an army that few other BL writers achieve
If "Sons of the Phoenix" is one of those kinds of names to be kinda obvious wouldn't "Heads of the Hydra" be a relatively good one for a totally loyalist Alpha Legion?
@@BaalFridge if you believe the Blood Ravens theory, then they were slightly more creative with the Loyalist Thousand Sons. Then again given how many God(dess)s of wisdom, magic, prophecy and the like have ravens as a symbol we didn't try that hard. Really relying on no one remembering what the old color scheme was and the association with the Blood Angels huh?
@@Ninjat126that's actually a super good comparison, some of them go "yay we can't wait to kill some xenos" and others go "I just wanna go back home and arm wrestle my battle-brothers"
I became an Iron Hands Fan when I was in college for mechanical engineering when my friend introduced them to me as "It's the chapter of Combat Engineers" And It's never changed
"I see you have some new marines in your pile of shame, but they're fully assembled? Shouldn't you paint them first?" "No, that's my new Alpha Legion chapter, 'The Painted Ones'."
“Sons of Tiamat” Multi-headed dragon, so Alpha Legion connection there. Fit the multi-head theme with specialized companies, named for each head. Then claim “No, we’re Dark Angel successors. See, it’s like the Hexagrammaton!”
Vulkan set fire to a single Eldar "not much older than a child" that were captured from a subjugated planet after they broke free and led to the death of hundreds civilians and a record-keeper that he was friends with, then immediately felt awful about it because Curze had been goading him all campaign about how the Salamanders were no better than the Nightlords and he had no moral high ground to posture from.
@@tomasmichaels642 Salamanders are awesome. If you haven't seen the three-part Pariah Nexus animation, you should find a way. Also, despite not liking the books, I honestly think Vulkan has one of the best lines in the Horus Heresy in Vulkan Lives.
On the "there is a list with a hundred fucking successor chapters" this is so real. I was making my own successor chapter and came up with the name Astral Knights because I wanted to lean in to the knight aesthetic. Well turns out that is already a Canon chapter
I may blow up some brains here, but the Sons of the Phoenix looking suspiciously like Emperor's Children is a genuine accident. Their creator, Maxime Pastourel, was a Miniature Designer for GW (now, he's Content lead) when the first Intercessor where released. On his personnal blog, he described how to create your own Successor Chapter and use some lore to make it visually distinctive. The entire idea was to make a Chapter that looks very religious, but more inspired by Cardinals than "Crusaders", leading to the white, purple and gold. When they were shown to the public in White Dwarf, the entire fanbase guessed GW was being cheeky and made an obviously Emperor's Children looking Successor to show that Cawl is a "sussy baka". The moral of the story is : Do not overestimate GW. Some of their best stuff happens purely by accident. Edit : Since we're talking about French, don't blame the British for "manoeuvre". That's one of our word they took over to fill up your dictionnaries.
As a fellow french, I do feel angry for our beautiful nonsensical word being made fun of. But if such is the cost to watch the brits suffer, then we shall pay the price.
One thing that's often missing from Raven Guard lore from the outside is that they were devastated by the heresy and were very slow to rebuild after some... experiments went pretty wrong. They are not just into covert operations because it is an effective way to deploy an elite force, their low numbers both resulted in the early chapter having to train up a large number of scouts, not having access to a lot of heavy materiel, and being on the brink of extinction, having to preserve their geneseed.
So about the 1000 marine thing, I might be wrong about this, but I remember in a book. The 1000 marines do not include support staff (mechanicus, serfs) aspirants (currenting training in space marine scouts) or marines on a crusade (where a chapter can send small groups out to conquer territory). So at the end of the day it's like: 1000 standing marines ready to be deployed, couple hundreds marines crusading around, and roughly 2-3 thousand aspirants. Even still it's a small amount but it's a lot more reasonable. This is also not including ship personal for the battle barge or other forces with the marines.
That may be true. The problem still remains one of scale. You get the impression that the factions of the game are about equal in the grand strategy game. The Eldar as a whole pose a dire threat to the Orks as a whole, and both are really afraid of the Tyranids as a whole. The Imperium are justifiably paranoid about Space Marines going rogue as a whole (all 1 million of them!) - if nothing else because of the insane naval assets that Space Marines collectively have access to. They'd be ridiculously outnumbered, but it wouldn't exactly be a police action for the Guard to deal with. The problem comes when you break it down to subfaction level. The Ultramarines are on every poster, fighting all kinds of the Imperium's enemies. You get the sense that the Ultramarines, as a space marine subfaction, are everywhere there's trouble. That they can hold their own *on a strategic level* against, say, a Necron dynasty or a Tyranid hive fleet, or an Ork Waagh, or an Aeldari Craftworld. They can't. They really, really, really, really can't. Any one of those three forces likely has forces *at least* in the hundreds of thousands, possibly millions. Even if Space Marines are supposed to be the Emperor's Scalpel, who do quick deployments with massive damage... you really want to be outnumbered less than 100 to 1 if you want to do meaningful damage. And you need someone else to hold territory for you. Another way to look at the math problem is this: Canonically, there's like four-ish different hive fleets, seven-ish Craftworlds, et cetera. The forces of the race are partitioned into a single-digit number of subfactions. There are, canonically, literally a thousand space marine chapters. There are less capital D Dark Angels in existence than there are *Custodians*. Craftworld Ulthwe probably has more psykers to lead their troops than the Salamanders have marines. The numbers only make sense on a strategic level if your average space marine force in a theater of war consists of multiple chapters working together, or assisting the guard - and funnily enough, that's what happens in the lore because it's the only thing that makes sense. But that kinda destroys the idea of any one Space Marine chapter being an important political player in their own right. Primarchs might be, due to sheer status, but 1000 marines really aren't.
@asgerlakkenborg2435 Well I agree with you on scale, and in the model game territory. I think it's important to note that in books Space Marines are very rarely in a vacuum. Space Marines are always deployed with other PDF troops, guard, and sisters, all are right behind Space Marines every step of the way. Although the athority of an Astartes is such that they can do whatever is required to achieve victory, even order other groups if need be. Space Marines are split into groups/squads/individuals and sent wherever they are needed. So they are kinda everywhere, not really but at all major large battles. Big problem would be the lack of representation of combined arms from other chapters and axillaries in marketing. There are plenty of Hivefleets, Craftworlds, Ork Whaaaghs, Necron Dynasties, Chaos Incursions. But they are not all at war at the same time, if they were than the Imperium would fall. The very idea of Warhammer is forces being stretched so thin that many would are lost. It's the heroics of individuals that stop all these losses from being total defeats, and that's why it works great as a setting. That's my limited understanding of the setting, at least.
@@weavelcow9596 I think we're pretty much in agreement. The 1000 space marines to a chapter thing makes a decent amount of sense in lore, because they almost never fight completely alone. The problem is, like you say, mainly in the marketing. The game hates soup (for good reason), so combined arms Imperium forces are rarely fielded. You also aren't encouraged to field multi-chapter armies. Likewise, the 1st founding chapters (Dark Angels, Ultramarines, etc) get lots of special rules, despite representing less than 1% of all marines each. The VAST majority of marines are not first founding chapters. I don't play loyalist space marines (I'm a chaos boii), but I would imagine it feels very weird to deploy 100 ultramarine models on the tabletop and go "These are literally 1/10 of all Ultramarines in the entire setting sitting on this table". Bonus points if you bring a named character along, but I guess that goes for all factions. Admittedly, though, you make a really good point about the heroics thing. Each game of 40k only really covers a tiny bit of what must be a much larger conflict, but they cover the most heroic part of the battle. So I guess it's alright at the end of the day :)
@asgerlakkenborg2435 I get what you mean. It doesn't help that there is a Space Marine army in tabletop. It means that it has to treat some type of Space Marines as Troops and not Elites. It also means that the troops have boltguns which then forces the boltguns to be less effective than they should be. Scaling everything from Space Marines messes with a lot of stats in the model game. Also yeah 100 Marines vs 200 tyranids is a terrible ratio, but dies make for a balanced game. I just wouldn't treat the model game like cannon but instead just a fun tabletop game that still keeps in line with heroics stopping the enemy when they are most needed :)
@asgerlakkenborg2435 it also feels weird because, despite Space Marines seeming to operate fairly independently, it makes them completely dependent on other Imperium factions because they absolutely cannot deploy in numbers sufficient to hold territory. If the war is spread out over any front larger than a single battle the Space Marines are no help, they just don't have enough manpower to put bodies holding the line. And this is assuming that they are basically invincible. If we assume tabletop is within an order of magnitude of accuracy, plus the lore of the population of worlds, pretty much every planets PDF can wipe out an entire Chapter if they were determined.
Was gonna say, I played a Space Wolves Stormlance "Wild Hunt" type list and it was a ton of fun to fight against. Terrifying, super cool, super thematic, the perfect kind of army to play against.
I wish the chapters worked with their child chapters more in the lore. Lean into how small each chapter is and how many myriad chapters there are. And then you could paint your little dudes different colors and mix it up but they're all ultramarine type or whatever
1/ you can totaly do that, my jumpack assault intercessor are black dragon while my army is classic salamanders. 2/ with all other exemple, all iron hand still answer from the iron council and will unit if asked.
This happens in the novels all the time. The Ultramarines are known to work closely with their successors, for Dark Angels it is a REALLY well documented thing, and the Blood Angels are closely tied to their successors as well - just for a few examples.
"A chapter is exactly one thousand Marines." Except for the Black Templars and the Space Wolves. For all we joke about them at least those two factions no how to count!
@jonahbreen8512 The Black Templars refuse to learn to count past 1000. Plausible deniality, you can't say you have more than 1000 if you don't know what that looks like
The Mechanicus game has a great twist on Binharic where all the tech priests are talking to each other in banjo kazooiee squawks crossed with morse code and its like; oh this is so they dont have voice acting; then the necrons show up speaking english and the tech priests are all like "oh hey a message in low gothic" - implying the noises they've been making this whole time is binharic. In theory; the language is "what if you had a rapid morse code interpreter attatched to your head and could just send a cloud of noise that other people with morse code interpreters in their heads can understand.
Stormlance is also great for Space Wolves, as long as you're into the wolf-mounted cavalry vibe. It's what they usually run in tournaments. Also; Aphla Legion. No one will ever figure that one out.
Regarding the octopus and the Detroit Red Wings, back in the day you only needed to win 8 games (2 rounds) in the playoffs for the stanely cup. When the detroit red wings would win the cup, fans would throw octopuses onto the rink.
Honestly my only complaint about the whole separation to detachments, is unless you absolutly really love one of the other 5 chapters from the base book, playing ultramarines is always the best choice. You get 7 characters with them, one a primarch. Meanwhile all the others only get like 1character each. Unless you love the white scars or imperial fists that much, playing them is just less options for you.
Salamanders player/noob here. I like Adrax, but I need a new Vulkan He'stan and I need an epic hero with either a melta, flamer, or some other ranged weapon. But I will stick with Salamander out of spite. (also 10th edition makes me *really* wanna get flamer, explosives, and melee)
Didnt "son of the jon" came back pretty recently? Im sure other charecters will start coming back soon like "regular drone" or "loyalist bird deamon" maybe even "speed" anyway lets just hope other factions will get simular treatment as i would love if they will bring back "mr beast" "grimfull" and "peter-turbo"
30:30 I fucking love plasma so I'm running "plasmastorm" assault force. 20 Hell blasters in transports, 12 plasma inceptors. Too much plasma? Hell yeah 😎
1,000 Marines per Chapter was an incredibly smart decision because once a Chapter reaches around 1,000 marines those excess marines are culled and form a new chapter of 1,000 space marines, and it literally keeps going on and on. There are over 1,000,000 Loyalist Space Marines or MORE out in the galaxy doing the Emperor's work but there is no way to funnel ALL of them against the Imperium. If a chapter goes rogue it's easy for the rest of them to gang up on the rogue chapter and bring it into compliance or exterminate it. Guilliman was a straight up genius for doing this. There are just as many Space Marines as there were during the Crusade days, but they are ineffective at turning on the imperium.
Yeah thats what people never understand. The legions were an unwieldy sledgehammer, the chapters a surgical scaple. The legions were only useful as a formation for as long as the Imperium was on the offensive, once the great crusade was over its obvious they were going to broken down into smaller formations. The chapters can protect a larger area than a legion ever could due to there dispersed nature and decentralized command structure.
The point of splitting the legions into chapters was to reduce the military power of potential rogue primarchs, but the lore shows that successor chapters flock to their parent chapter's banner anyway. 5 IQ move by Robot Girlyman
@Arturius_Rex_8 and that's how it should be, because fundamentally if chapters cannot get along with each other you will have problems in the long run. Even if successor chapters maintain good relationships with their parent chapter, they are still fundamentally their own separate formations. They may put themselves temporarily under the command of another chapter but will never just give up their own autonomy.
Yeah, that’s the lore justification, but 1000 is a comically small number for the scale that 40k exists at. At that point it doesn’t matter how strong an individual space marine is, there aren’t enough of them in a chapter to practically matter, especially for how often they’re written as taking part in large engagements. It’s one of those things where the Imperium is so large that the numbers are outside of our ability to visualize, so a number as attainable as 1000 is meaningless.
@thelordofhats I guarantee you a single company of space marines could easily conquer this planet with little to no resistance. Space marines don't fight like idiots, they set stragetic goals and targets that need to be accomplished right away. They don't fight prolonged engagements, if they are fighting a prolonged engagement something has gone horriblely wrong. Astartes need to make use of their mobility to compensate for their inherent lack of defensive combat doctrine and rather low ammunition capacity for each Astartes, they need to deploy and redeploy so they can r reequip and resupply.
honestly I... actually really like how impactful these are on a timmy/melvin level of "ooh I can build around these passives". Except the first company one, I suppose.
The ship from the scifi novel "Ringworld" by Larry Niven's is "The Lying Bastard". This is after the human goes over the tools for exploring the newly discovered Ringworld and it's like the Genestealers Cult where every single one can be easily turned into a dominating weapon over an uncivilized population.
23:45 space wolves are very well replaced as well because they have access to 8 more dreads and 3 more tech marines compaired to standard codex conpliant chapters due to having 1 additional type of tech marine, 2 dreadnought sheets and 2 dreadnought epic heroes
I find it ironic that vanguard spearhead, the one detachment thats supposed to be sneaky and mobile, has an enhancement that actively encourages you to "infiltrate" 10 terminators on the mid objectives.
Vanguard Spearhead being very common at tournaments with a Gravis captain or Calgar being given the infiltrator enhancement with a max squad of Aggressors
Chapters needing to be well-rounded is one of the reasons I really liked how Detachments are handled this edition. Sure, White Scars like bikes. But they also still have both Scouts/Recon (10th Company) and Terminators/Veterans (1st Company). 8th & 9th edition had the problem of pigeon-holing Chapters to a very specific playstyle. Thereby punishing players for collecting a wide variety of models, or of choosing a Chapter that doesn't currently have good rules. In 10th, you can pivot freely to whatever playstyle you feel like, regardless of color scheme. You might favor certain units for fluff reasons. But you aren't being penalized for it. It makes you WANT to keep expanding your collection. (Which, you know, is also good for GW.)
@Poorhammer 8:00 Guys, give it a rest. The 1,000 man cap to Chapters isn't a big deal, lore-wise. In fact, it makes perfect sense. The Astartes Legions, in 30K, were the Imperium's primary military force, but as a result of the Codex Astartes: they haven't been the Imperium's primary military for a long, long time. The Imperial Guard (although it had been the garrison/reserve force during the Great Crusade) *_are_* the Imperium's primary ground-warfare military. It is not an exaggeration to say that 90-95% of the Imperium's military might and power stems *_entirely_* from the Imperial Guard, Mechanicus (including the Titan Legions and Knight Households), and Navy. The Sisters of Battle, Astartes, Custodians, etcetera: are all basically special forces units (although the Sisters are primarily an arm of the Ecclesiarchy). They are deployed *_not_* to be the biggest military force in the field, they are deployed to accomplish specific tasks that need to be done quickly or quietly or with maximum efficiency. The Astartes Chapters are the Imperium's scalpel compared to ImpGuard being its hammer. When you want something done that is vitally important, but you can't quite divert hundreds of thousands or millions of troops, or several battlefleets to do it, you send out a ping to a local Astartes Chapter to have *_them_* take care of it. Sometimes, like in the Wars for Armageddon, you'll have Astartes Chapters serving special battlefield roles under the command or jurisdiction of ImpGuard Generals, as needed. Granted, all of this was the case before Guilliman returned, when he led a Legion-sized contingent of Primaris on the Indomitus Crusade. But while he is making revisions to the Codex Astartes, the 1,000 man limit is still perfectly valid. Having a million chapters of independent Astartes/Primaris forces, all working on their own assignments and their own pools of resources: is far more useful to the Imperium than just having them in 100,000-man blobs that can't properly maneuver for the same reasons that the Navy can't often maneuver to respond to threats.
You raise some valid points, but, counterpoint, if they are only 1k strong, why do blood angels have more lore and rules than entire xenos races? GW has told us that this 1k squad is more important than the entire T'au empire, which is bull. Imperial guard is treated as an afterthought, as a "oh this isn't that important, send the guard" I agree, guard SHOULD be the main force, and the marines SHOULD be the elite strike forces, but that is not how the lore or the rules of the game treat them.
@@bobthegamingtaco6073 Because Space Marines sell like fucking hot-cakes, that's why. GW gets most of its money from Marines, so they pump more money into more and more lore and models for Marines. The way it is in the lore has little to do with the amount of content and product made for it lmfao By that logic, Jedi must be about half the population of the Star Wars galaxy simply because 85% of the stories told in Star Wars feature Jedi lol
@@Ambulatory_Viscount By the way, there were canonically something like 10,000 to 100,000 Jedi as of the Clone Wars. It's not super clear, but like. A very small number, proportionately. Of course, Star Wars pulled its own version with Three Million Clones vs a quintillion droids, but let's not discuss that. (Also, as I noted elsewhere, each chapter has its own small squadron of capital starships. Which almost makes them a navy that can also raid, appropriate for *Space Marines*) "Sisters are primarily an arm of the Ecclesiarchy)" Specifically, they're site security, bodyguards, and enforcers. The level of force they can deploy may seem excessive, but this is a universe where not only do relics have actual power, there is a powerful enemy willing and able to take action to destroy or corrupt them with potentially disastrous consequences. ... several such enemies, really.
I know you're half joking about the British English spellings, but you've got to remember that a lot of the English language comes from the Norman invasion of 1066 bringing a lot of the French language into British/English usage. The British spelling of Manoeuvre comes from the French spelling manoeuvre which, in turn, is derived from the Latin manuoperare derived from the Latin words Manus (hands) & operari (to work)...
Oh God I laughed so hard at the octopus comment XD So glad to hear some hockey stories during a 40k podcast lmfao Also wanna stay that Stormlance is insanely good for Space Wolves. Being able to launch a ton of Thunderwolf Cavalry into the fray ends up helping them so much.
Just wanted to say that I have just recently got into warhammer after playing inquisitor martyr and finally started an army, Custodes, because I have been enjoying their lore and being gold clad ultimate warriors. Plus being a painting noob, but I have been listening to all of your podcasts and have been enjoying all the knowledge you both have and the fun banter giving me confidence to give it a try plus now I really want orcas because they sound fun and chaotic. So thank you and keep up the good work.
As someone who is started warhammer this year, and writing my own Alpha Legion successor chapter, thank you for this video. The Beheaded will have their revenge for the Murder on Pluto, destroying the Imperium's defences and erasing unfound STCs. "No longer do we fight a War of Blood and Bullets. We fight a War of Knowledge".
I still feel like they could've went a step further and had like a addon for detachments that would become available to you based on if you choose to lock yourself to a chapter with a specific character or 2. This addon sheet would have like maybe 3 thematic and exclusive choices to bring that could flesh out your chapter further. As it stands chapters like WS and RG don't have much to any identity left compared to say something like ultras if what now defines us is purely exclusive datasheets.
As a deathwatch main id love it if we werent op and then nerfed into the ground and left to fester. Just make special ammo flavourful instead of it always endeding up as OP into trash every single time.
@@HighMarshalBiggusDickus yeah playable sure, i take over priced kill teams to my club every week, with a combo of 60% of my strats being about bolt weapons in a time where you dont pay fir wargear so never take bolt weapons and it just feels bad is all.
This podcast a months ago inspired me to get into the hobby and the first thing I did was get a mix of loyalists and chaos marines to make an alpha legion warband. If you want a good loyalist group name, an interesting idea would be the codeword Xenophon used to activate alpha legion sleeper agents to side with loyalists. “Xenophon Company” “Xenophon Task Force” for example.
Brad if you see this im using your loyalist alpha legion idea started with the BP space marine box, my first ever box. Been working on it since last year and I’m happy that this video helped me think of how to run them
What makes it even worse is that the rules for the Ravenwing detachment for Dark Angels would probably make a White Scars army that leans into cavalry so much better.
@@Calvin_Coolage True! I love the White Scars -- I'm saving models to make them (or a WS successor chapter) my first Space Marine army - but they're not getting much love from GW at the moment....
33:57 Gotta say that « manœuvre » is a French word, and œ is a letter called « e in the o » which appears form time to time French words such as « œil » (=eye) … this explains that i guess (I’m French btw)
I have a weird idea for a firestorm list for iron hands. Specifically by going tank focused with your infantry being either in transtports and on bikes. Really play into your transport vehicles alongside some heavy tanks in the back and having a nice diverse set of mobile infantry. Plus the bikes are just fun to pair with other vehicles esthetically. No idea if this would be that functional as a build though.
Stormlance is insane for space wolves because so many of their units have rules based around advancing or charging. Blood claws, grey hunters, thunderwolf cavalry, wulfen dreadnoughts, skyclaws, ragnar blackmane, and thunderwolf mounted characters all get some kind of boost from advance and charge, so it's no surprise that stormlance is chosen so often over champions of russ, a detachment that doesn't give you any bonuses unless your characters 1v1 various enemies or pull off specific feats
The Red Wings are the chapter in the book "Astorath: Angel of Mercy." But that's the only time I can think of they've been present in a book. They might have been mentioned in the Devastation of Baal though. but it's hard to tell because Guy Haley went full ad-lib mode trying to create 300 successors for that book.
The Hydra Marines, which are totally an ultramarine successor chapter. Known for their habit to often run missions with their cousins the Ultra Alphas from the same founding.
I've never understood why they consider 1000 marines to be so few? In the lore a space marine is the force equivalent of 100 guardsmen, so each chapter is the equivalent of 100,000k guardsmen. Factor in the fact that the 1000 doesn't include support personnel like servitors and chapter serfs it's not really that little.
Space Marines are not used by themselves but operate alongside other Imperial forces in a theater. They are used as elite shock troops used for specific battles and engagements. And generally this is only one or two companies of a Chapter.
@haissake space marines are not designed to fight defensively, it actually goes against all their instincts. They need to be on the offensive and they do that the best by trying to end a conflict as quickly as possible. Standard doctrine is for the astartes to cut off the head of the leadership of who they are fighting, whether its orks, chaos space marines, eldar, tau, necrons, tyranids you name it most factions loose cohesion and effectiveness once their leaders are slain. And that is where astartes excel, appearing in the rear lines, removing command elements and then using their superior mobility to surround and pick off the remaining enemies. A chapter is perfectly adequate for said role and its only seen as a problem now because two factions that didn't exist during the great crusade era have shown up and have no real doctrinal precedence.
Because its stated Hive fleets and ork waarghs are described to have trillion-strong forces, and each army are often compared to guardsmen in the "drown them in men" strategy. I personally think it should be 10,000 marines, as that makes each chapter into the size of a roman cohort. 10 cohorts = 1 legion. Just makes more sense to me
My understanding of Binaric is that while yes Admech do talk to machines this way, its very similar to High Gothic in that it *can* be learnt but is primarily used just as a form of communication between Admech because its supposed to be faster/more efficient, as well as not understood by most of the imperials who might be nearby for privacy.
For anvil, my friend run double Las repulsors (BASE heavy) and 10 hellblasters with a lieutenant and use the sustained hits 5+ if you didn't move strat.
So I didn't want to be space marine player when I started looking at army's, but I fell in love with the black templars, I enjoy their kits, and their esthetics, current reading lore
For stormlance it is also notable that the wolves riding wolves really like it, making it a bit more versatile, just for a more divergent chapter with their own book lol.
I find it funny how the Iron Hands one is what the Salamanders use to have during 8th edition before the tournament people ruined it. The one reroll to wounds and hits was nice
Iron spear is so fun. "Dreadnaughts and termies look dope" is what got me to finally try 40k. My 2k space marine list that I run when people are OK with legends and proxies has a redemptive, 2 ballistus dreads (1 being a 3d print), a contemptor, and I wanna add a dorito or whatever you call it. And that's not counting tanks or transports. But my god is it fun to just march a wall of Dreadnaughts up the board just blasting away
Vanguard Spearhead goes from "sneaky" to "Death Guard at Long Range" thanks to the Shadow Masters detachment rule. -1 to hit on some Dark Angels terminators is the worst
So after finging tts and then the algorithm deciding that "you'll like this podcast", i picked up the salamander warforged box at my local game store. Im trying to get into the hobby and was wondering if i could get some tips on where to go from my start point. Box had adrax, 3 aggressors, 3 eradicators and 20 intercessors. Was looking at the starter set for the price and has a few units that look good or the dark angels combat patrol for some of its units (chaplains and dreadnought)
The current DA combat patrol is really good for fleshing out a beginning SM army. The new one comes out very soon (this week?), so I'd grab it soon if you can. The Blood Angels one isn't too bad either.
@@jeffrobagman2834 that’s why I was looking at the starter set as well. A primaris captain, 5 terminators and 5 infernus marines and a set of tyranids to go against as practice for $130 cad. Pretty much the space marine combat patrol minus a librarian and a start to another army for $60 less. I was hearing intercessors are not the greatest so I was trying to avoid collecting a pile of them.
I assume Endryd Haar, Legion of the Damned, Chaos Marines, Fire Hawks, and Tiger Claws can’t be Primaris Sized because they separated from the Imperium long ago, as Firstborn, does that sound correct?
For a succesor to Alpha Legion, how about the Betaneian Hinds? Capturing the Ceryneian Hind (a big ass deer made of brass) was Hercules's labor after slaying the hydra, which fits with Beta being after Alpha. It allows for a brass color scheme and a deer/hunting motief for flair. And as a symbol, it matches the myth: they have to do the impossible task of hunting down the alpha legion, but will succeed in the end. And it can be shortened to the B-Hinds to match the toilet bowl 😊
I feel they did a good job representing Chapters through the detachments so far in this edition. Especially given how much simpler they had to make it compared to 8.5-9th editions. Every themed list I've made feels very much on theme for the Chapter I chose, which is super cool! (They should krump the 1st Company Task Force though. It's literally just an extra, poorly-written detachment that makes Space Marines have even more than other factions).
Hi! Im thinking about start a little (750-1000) Grey Knight army. But without a starter box. Is the Leviathan box termis good for GK, if they are cheap or normal termi box.
I mean, even before the 10th edition, you could paint your marines in blue and still play them as Iron Hands, you just had to invent a successor chapter called the Blue Fists ^^
The video I needed! My leviathan box arrives tomorrow! Looks like I’m going Ultraboys everything else looks intimidating never painting or building before. Lol
That's funny. I'm making my own successor chapter with 'suspicion ' of genesedes from Alpha Legion and Imperial fists/templars. Mixed of sneaky long shooty and 'in your face fighting'. I named the The Void Serpent. I play them as Deathwatch for now. Just for fun. But Vanguard and Gladius are tempting vs "very fast and chargy " army
I am once again able to marvel at Eric's ability to participate in the hobby of playing 40k for this long without absorbing even the most basic aspects of lore.
Truly fascinating, never change.
In fitting with the Alpha Legions theme of Greek letters and existing outside a binary "Alpha" and "Omega" the only logical name for Brad's Alpha Legion chapter is the Sigma Males.
FIVE TIPS TO IMPROVE YOUR NET LOYALTY WITH ALPHAMAXXING :
1-refusing to tip your servitors
2-refer to yourself exclusively in the third person and as “Alpharius”
3-surround yourself with high net-loyalty individuals
4-Cause as many problems for others as transhumanly possible
5-geneseed retention
Sugma males
Sigma marines? 😂
Could do some lore stuff with radiation and bring in something with "Gamma" as a pun
Nah sigmarines is already already for the aos stormcast, lets not make it to confusing for the kids. 😂
You could also throw in some Ultramarines characters as the Toilet Bowl is just an upside down Omega
Alpha Legion Calgar or Guiliman is honestly a fun concept to me
"The sons of balpharius" "Alpha secundus" "We aren't alpharius stop asking"
"Omega Squadron" For the Win
"I am not Alpharius!"
@@someidiot6545
"So am I!"
@someidiot6545 I like to see them as super loyal but everyone assumes everything they do and say is a lie. "I'm not alpharius, this is the TRUTH!"
When I eventually get around to building the random Marines I have I wanted to make them Omega Marines, pretend ultramarine successors that are actually Alpha Legion. Alas, Omega Marines is already in canon@@ismael9914
Important Lore note: Binharic sounds like a Dial up Modem. Techpriests scream at computer screens and each other in 56k.
True story, every time a techmarine datalinks to a tank, he connects via AOL from the mid 90s.
In the lords of Mars books, there are different dialects of dial-up, too. Some dialup is newer and incompatible with older ones.
56k in 40k. I don't know why that made me giggle so much.
@@thelonelybolter8245"I said hey! What's going on?"
As a programmer, yeah. Yeah. Sometimes it do be like that
You should call your Totally-not-Alpha-Legion "The Triumph of Hercules"
I think "the triumph of Iolaus" would fit better as he was the one to figure out the hydra's weakness.
@@Status_L This is especially good if you fancy your boys are mostly power bottoms.
HERACLES NOT HERCULES
Shit, that's pretty good
@sebastianblizniak5288 No, no it is Hunkluse.
Man, I wish this podcast was the first 40k content I ran into. I've spent so much time, money, and misery because no other 40k channels will emphasize the fact that it's not meant to be taken seriously and you're allowed and encouraged to make your army whatever you want.
EMPERORS SPEARS MENTIONED RAAAAAAAAHHHHH I LOVE CELTIC BARBARIANS
@@epicwaba6424i really enjoyed the book tbh so not sure what u mean
@@epicwaba6424 i think its one of those books thatll feel better once we get a sequel, it feels more like the first half or third of a story and fails a bit at being a standalone story by the end. Still loved it tho. ADB has a way of making u want to collect an army that few other BL writers achieve
If "Sons of the Phoenix" is one of those kinds of names to be kinda obvious wouldn't "Heads of the Hydra" be a relatively good one for a totally loyalist Alpha Legion?
Alongisde the "Planetary Gourmets" and the "Book Carriers"?
"The nine hundred and ninety nine plus one suns"
@@BaalFridge if you believe the Blood Ravens theory, then they were slightly more creative with the Loyalist Thousand Sons.
Then again given how many God(dess)s of wisdom, magic, prophecy and the like have ravens as a symbol we didn't try that hard. Really relying on no one remembering what the old color scheme was and the association with the Blood Angels huh?
@@BaalFridge the "Totally Codex Compliant Number of Sons"
@@BaalFridge Meanwhile the Brotherhood of a Thousand.
12:26 deathwatch squads become like a xeno slaughter study abroad program.
Deathwatch is just post human summer camp
@@Ninjat126that's actually a super good comparison, some of them go "yay we can't wait to kill some xenos" and others go "I just wanna go back home and arm wrestle my battle-brothers"
I became an Iron Hands Fan when I was in college for mechanical engineering when my friend introduced them to me as "It's the chapter of Combat Engineers" And It's never changed
I love Iron Hands too!
I like vehicles and dreadnoughts but GW moved almost my entire iron hands army to legends and my first love were dark angels
"I see you have some new marines in your pile of shame, but they're fully assembled? Shouldn't you paint them first?"
"No, that's my new Alpha Legion chapter, 'The Painted Ones'."
Oooh, you could go all Brythionic/Celtic with that and call them The Pretani (the painted ones)...
“Sons of Tiamat”
Multi-headed dragon, so Alpha Legion connection there.
Fit the multi-head theme with specialized companies, named for each head. Then claim “No, we’re Dark Angel successors. See, it’s like the Hexagrammaton!”
Or as fake salamander successors because dragons and fire.
Vulkan set fire to a single Eldar "not much older than a child" that were captured from a subjugated planet after they broke free and led to the death of hundreds civilians and a record-keeper that he was friends with, then immediately felt awful about it because Curze had been goading him all campaign about how the Salamanders were no better than the Nightlords and he had no moral high ground to posture from.
So Vulkan feels remorse for killing Eldar, and tries to make sure what is best is done correctly. Truly, my choice of marine is best
@@tomasmichaels642 Salamanders are awesome. If you haven't seen the three-part Pariah Nexus animation, you should find a way.
Also, despite not liking the books, I honestly think Vulkan has one of the best lines in the Horus Heresy in Vulkan Lives.
@@Benry87 actually pariah nexus is part of why im doing salamanders
On the "there is a list with a hundred fucking successor chapters" this is so real. I was making my own successor chapter and came up with the name Astral Knights because I wanted to lean in to the knight aesthetic. Well turns out that is already a Canon chapter
I may blow up some brains here, but the Sons of the Phoenix looking suspiciously like Emperor's Children is a genuine accident.
Their creator, Maxime Pastourel, was a Miniature Designer for GW (now, he's Content lead) when the first Intercessor where released. On his personnal blog, he described how to create your own Successor Chapter and use some lore to make it visually distinctive. The entire idea was to make a Chapter that looks very religious, but more inspired by Cardinals than "Crusaders", leading to the white, purple and gold.
When they were shown to the public in White Dwarf, the entire fanbase guessed GW was being cheeky and made an obviously Emperor's Children looking Successor to show that Cawl is a "sussy baka".
The moral of the story is : Do not overestimate GW. Some of their best stuff happens purely by accident.
Edit : Since we're talking about French, don't blame the British for "manoeuvre". That's one of our word they took over to fill up your dictionnaries.
They've had a thousand years to fix it so I'm still calling it their fault.
As a fellow french, I do feel angry for our beautiful nonsensical word being made fun of.
But if such is the cost to watch the brits suffer, then we shall pay the price.
I love the theory that the SotP are secretly loyal EC. But I kinda hope it's never confirmed. The mystery is part of the fun.
One thing that's often missing from Raven Guard lore from the outside is that they were devastated by the heresy and were very slow to rebuild after some... experiments went pretty wrong. They are not just into covert operations because it is an effective way to deploy an elite force, their low numbers both resulted in the early chapter having to train up a large number of scouts, not having access to a lot of heavy materiel, and being on the brink of extinction, having to preserve their geneseed.
😢😅
So about the 1000 marine thing, I might be wrong about this, but I remember in a book. The 1000 marines do not include support staff (mechanicus, serfs) aspirants (currenting training in space marine scouts) or marines on a crusade (where a chapter can send small groups out to conquer territory).
So at the end of the day it's like: 1000 standing marines ready to be deployed, couple hundreds marines crusading around, and roughly 2-3 thousand aspirants. Even still it's a small amount but it's a lot more reasonable. This is also not including ship personal for the battle barge or other forces with the marines.
That may be true. The problem still remains one of scale.
You get the impression that the factions of the game are about equal in the grand strategy game. The Eldar as a whole pose a dire threat to the Orks as a whole, and both are really afraid of the Tyranids as a whole. The Imperium are justifiably paranoid about Space Marines going rogue as a whole (all 1 million of them!) - if nothing else because of the insane naval assets that Space Marines collectively have access to. They'd be ridiculously outnumbered, but it wouldn't exactly be a police action for the Guard to deal with.
The problem comes when you break it down to subfaction level. The Ultramarines are on every poster, fighting all kinds of the Imperium's enemies. You get the sense that the Ultramarines, as a space marine subfaction, are everywhere there's trouble. That they can hold their own *on a strategic level* against, say, a Necron dynasty or a Tyranid hive fleet, or an Ork Waagh, or an Aeldari Craftworld.
They can't. They really, really, really, really can't. Any one of those three forces likely has forces *at least* in the hundreds of thousands, possibly millions. Even if Space Marines are supposed to be the Emperor's Scalpel, who do quick deployments with massive damage... you really want to be outnumbered less than 100 to 1 if you want to do meaningful damage. And you need someone else to hold territory for you.
Another way to look at the math problem is this: Canonically, there's like four-ish different hive fleets, seven-ish Craftworlds, et cetera. The forces of the race are partitioned into a single-digit number of subfactions.
There are, canonically, literally a thousand space marine chapters. There are less capital D Dark Angels in existence than there are *Custodians*. Craftworld Ulthwe probably has more psykers to lead their troops than the Salamanders have marines.
The numbers only make sense on a strategic level if your average space marine force in a theater of war consists of multiple chapters working together, or assisting the guard - and funnily enough, that's what happens in the lore because it's the only thing that makes sense.
But that kinda destroys the idea of any one Space Marine chapter being an important political player in their own right. Primarchs might be, due to sheer status, but 1000 marines really aren't.
@asgerlakkenborg2435 Well I agree with you on scale, and in the model game territory. I think it's important to note that in books Space Marines are very rarely in a vacuum. Space Marines are always deployed with other PDF troops, guard, and sisters, all are right behind Space Marines every step of the way. Although the athority of an Astartes is such that they can do whatever is required to achieve victory, even order other groups if need be.
Space Marines are split into groups/squads/individuals and sent wherever they are needed. So they are kinda everywhere, not really but at all major large battles. Big problem would be the lack of representation of combined arms from other chapters and axillaries in marketing.
There are plenty of Hivefleets, Craftworlds, Ork Whaaaghs, Necron Dynasties, Chaos Incursions. But they are not all at war at the same time, if they were than the Imperium would fall. The very idea of Warhammer is forces being stretched so thin that many would are lost. It's the heroics of individuals that stop all these losses from being total defeats, and that's why it works great as a setting. That's my limited understanding of the setting, at least.
@@weavelcow9596 I think we're pretty much in agreement. The 1000 space marines to a chapter thing makes a decent amount of sense in lore, because they almost never fight completely alone.
The problem is, like you say, mainly in the marketing. The game hates soup (for good reason), so combined arms Imperium forces are rarely fielded. You also aren't encouraged to field multi-chapter armies.
Likewise, the 1st founding chapters (Dark Angels, Ultramarines, etc) get lots of special rules, despite representing less than 1% of all marines each. The VAST majority of marines are not first founding chapters.
I don't play loyalist space marines (I'm a chaos boii), but I would imagine it feels very weird to deploy 100 ultramarine models on the tabletop and go "These are literally 1/10 of all Ultramarines in the entire setting sitting on this table". Bonus points if you bring a named character along, but I guess that goes for all factions.
Admittedly, though, you make a really good point about the heroics thing. Each game of 40k only really covers a tiny bit of what must be a much larger conflict, but they cover the most heroic part of the battle. So I guess it's alright at the end of the day :)
@asgerlakkenborg2435 I get what you mean. It doesn't help that there is a Space Marine army in tabletop. It means that it has to treat some type of Space Marines as Troops and not Elites. It also means that the troops have boltguns which then forces the boltguns to be less effective than they should be. Scaling everything from Space Marines messes with a lot of stats in the model game.
Also yeah 100 Marines vs 200 tyranids is a terrible ratio, but dies make for a balanced game. I just wouldn't treat the model game like cannon but instead just a fun tabletop game that still keeps in line with heroics stopping the enemy when they are most needed :)
@asgerlakkenborg2435 it also feels weird because, despite Space Marines seeming to operate fairly independently, it makes them completely dependent on other Imperium factions because they absolutely cannot deploy in numbers sufficient to hold territory. If the war is spread out over any front larger than a single battle the Space Marines are no help, they just don't have enough manpower to put bodies holding the line. And this is assuming that they are basically invincible. If we assume tabletop is within an order of magnitude of accuracy, plus the lore of the population of worlds, pretty much every planets PDF can wipe out an entire Chapter if they were determined.
Stormlance really improves Thunderwolf Cavalry too for us Space Wolves fans
Was gonna say, I played a Space Wolves Stormlance "Wild Hunt" type list and it was a ton of fun to fight against. Terrifying, super cool, super thematic, the perfect kind of army to play against.
I wish the chapters worked with their child chapters more in the lore. Lean into how small each chapter is and how many myriad chapters there are. And then you could paint your little dudes different colors and mix it up but they're all ultramarine type or whatever
look into Dark Angels lore (They are secretly still a legion)
Imperial fists have last wall protocol…
1/ you can totaly do that, my jumpack assault intercessor are black dragon while my army is classic salamanders.
2/ with all other exemple, all iron hand still answer from the iron council and will unit if asked.
The Devastation of Baal had pretty much every Blood Angel successor show up to bug hunt
This happens in the novels all the time. The Ultramarines are known to work closely with their successors, for Dark Angels it is a REALLY well documented thing, and the Blood Angels are closely tied to their successors as well - just for a few examples.
"A chapter is exactly one thousand Marines."
Except for the Black Templars and the Space Wolves. For all we joke about them at least those two factions no how to count!
im pretty sure black templars are supposed to number around 16,000 so they also don't know how to count
@jonahbreen8512
The Black Templars refuse to learn to count past 1000. Plausible deniality, you can't say you have more than 1000 if you don't know what that looks like
Iron hands too.
@@SWProductions100space wolves too!
My favorite detachment: Firestorm Ass
Aboard their battle barge, the Taco Bell of Lost Holes....
The Mechanicus game has a great twist on Binharic where all the tech priests are talking to each other in banjo kazooiee squawks crossed with morse code and its like; oh this is so they dont have voice acting; then the necrons show up speaking english and the tech priests are all like "oh hey a message in low gothic" - implying the noises they've been making this whole time is binharic.
In theory; the language is "what if you had a rapid morse code interpreter attatched to your head and could just send a cloud of noise that other people with morse code interpreters in their heads can understand.
I always imagined Binharic to just be dial-up noises.
Game was amazing. I thought it was a cool way to get around having voice actors, then the pharaoh shows up and by god his voice is glorious.
Name the Alpha Legion Primaris, The Alpha Primaris. Hide in plain sight!
I really like that your podcast is edited down to such a fluent/concise and still fun product.
Stormlance is also great for Space Wolves, as long as you're into the wolf-mounted cavalry vibe. It's what they usually run in tournaments.
Also; Aphla Legion. No one will ever figure that one out.
Regarding the octopus and the Detroit Red Wings, back in the day you only needed to win 8 games (2 rounds) in the playoffs for the stanely cup. When the detroit red wings would win the cup, fans would throw octopuses onto the rink.
Honestly my only complaint about the whole separation to detachments, is unless you absolutly really love one of the other 5 chapters from the base book, playing ultramarines is always the best choice. You get 7 characters with them, one a primarch. Meanwhile all the others only get like 1character each. Unless you love the white scars or imperial fists that much, playing them is just less options for you.
Imperial fist player here. I love having 2 characters, 1 out of print, and having a detachment that forçes me to stay still to even benefit.
Salamanders player/noob here. I like Adrax, but I need a new Vulkan He'stan and I need an epic hero with either a melta, flamer, or some other ranged weapon. But I will stick with Salamander out of spite. (also 10th edition makes me *really* wanna get flamer, explosives, and melee)
Didnt "son of the jon" came back pretty recently? Im sure other charecters will start coming back soon like "regular drone" or "loyalist bird deamon" maybe even "speed" anyway lets just hope other factions will get simular treatment as i would love if they will bring back "mr beast" "grimfull" and "peter-turbo"
The background transitions were amazing!
30:30 I fucking love plasma so I'm running "plasmastorm" assault force. 20 Hell blasters in transports, 12 plasma inceptors. Too much plasma? Hell yeah 😎
The Serpents of Loyalty, most obvious name possible
1,000 Marines per Chapter was an incredibly smart decision because once a Chapter reaches around 1,000 marines those excess marines are culled and form a new chapter of 1,000 space marines, and it literally keeps going on and on. There are over 1,000,000 Loyalist Space Marines or MORE out in the galaxy doing the Emperor's work but there is no way to funnel ALL of them against the Imperium. If a chapter goes rogue it's easy for the rest of them to gang up on the rogue chapter and bring it into compliance or exterminate it. Guilliman was a straight up genius for doing this.
There are just as many Space Marines as there were during the Crusade days, but they are ineffective at turning on the imperium.
Yeah thats what people never understand. The legions were an unwieldy sledgehammer, the chapters a surgical scaple. The legions were only useful as a formation for as long as the Imperium was on the offensive, once the great crusade was over its obvious they were going to broken down into smaller formations. The chapters can protect a larger area than a legion ever could due to there dispersed nature and decentralized command structure.
The point of splitting the legions into chapters was to reduce the military power of potential rogue primarchs, but the lore shows that successor chapters flock to their parent chapter's banner anyway. 5 IQ move by Robot Girlyman
@Arturius_Rex_8 and that's how it should be, because fundamentally if chapters cannot get along with each other you will have problems in the long run. Even if successor chapters maintain good relationships with their parent chapter, they are still fundamentally their own separate formations. They may put themselves temporarily under the command of another chapter but will never just give up their own autonomy.
Yeah, that’s the lore justification, but 1000 is a comically small number for the scale that 40k exists at. At that point it doesn’t matter how strong an individual space marine is, there aren’t enough of them in a chapter to practically matter, especially for how often they’re written as taking part in large engagements.
It’s one of those things where the Imperium is so large that the numbers are outside of our ability to visualize, so a number as attainable as 1000 is meaningless.
@thelordofhats I guarantee you a single company of space marines could easily conquer this planet with little to no resistance. Space marines don't fight like idiots, they set stragetic goals and targets that need to be accomplished right away. They don't fight prolonged engagements, if they are fighting a prolonged engagement something has gone horriblely wrong. Astartes need to make use of their mobility to compensate for their inherent lack of defensive combat doctrine and rather low ammunition capacity for each Astartes, they need to deploy and redeploy so they can r reequip and resupply.
honestly I... actually really like how impactful these are on a timmy/melvin level of "ooh I can build around these passives". Except the first company one, I suppose.
The ship from the scifi novel "Ringworld" by Larry Niven's is "The Lying Bastard". This is after the human goes over the tools for exploring the newly discovered Ringworld and it's like the Genestealers Cult where every single one can be easily turned into a dominating weapon over an uncivilized population.
"I did physics we make mathematicians mad alle the time"
reminds of introduction to geophysics where our prof rounded 1G to 10 m/s2 for ease of use
Thanks to my loving their lore as much as I hate myself I'm working on a Lamenters army.
Made a dark angels successor chapter called the iron fleet. Making lore for em has been sm fun 😌
Ravenguard being sneaky are just the meme of the Paladin in full plate mail rolling a natural 20 on stealth made manifest.
It is now cannon that the red wings only have one giant cup to drink blood ritualistically from.
Its fair to mention that when they talk binaric they can transfer several minutes of speak in seconds, and they need inplants to be able to use it
23:45 space wolves are very well replaced as well because they have access to 8 more dreads and 3 more tech marines compaired to standard codex conpliant chapters due to having 1 additional type of tech marine, 2 dreadnought sheets and 2 dreadnought epic heroes
Chapter name ideas; The Omegan Sons! The Omega Legion. The First Sons. The Hydra Legion. The Apha Guard.
Hydra Guard?
I find it ironic that vanguard spearhead, the one detachment thats supposed to be sneaky and mobile, has an enhancement that actively encourages you to "infiltrate" 10 terminators on the mid objectives.
How much did brad have to drink to WILLINGLY talk positively about space marines Eric? 😂🎉 Thanks for the video
Pretty sure if he got a papercut during the episode beer would have poured out
Thanks for making guys! Really appreciate it
I love how brad is like "im not going to make fun of space marines", but cheekily insults each of them as they go through the episode.
Great topic to discuss. I hope they lean into chapters/subfactions more in 10th at some point.
That detroit octopuses reference caught me off guard I was not expecting to hear deep hockey lore in my warhammer 40k podcast
Vanguard Spearhead being very common at tournaments with a Gravis captain or Calgar being given the infiltrator enhancement with a max squad of Aggressors
Chapters needing to be well-rounded is one of the reasons I really liked how Detachments are handled this edition. Sure, White Scars like bikes. But they also still have both Scouts/Recon (10th Company) and Terminators/Veterans (1st Company).
8th & 9th edition had the problem of pigeon-holing Chapters to a very specific playstyle. Thereby punishing players for collecting a wide variety of models, or of choosing a Chapter that doesn't currently have good rules. In 10th, you can pivot freely to whatever playstyle you feel like, regardless of color scheme. You might favor certain units for fluff reasons. But you aren't being penalized for it. It makes you WANT to keep expanding your collection.
(Which, you know, is also good for GW.)
@Poorhammer
8:00
Guys, give it a rest.
The 1,000 man cap to Chapters isn't a big deal, lore-wise. In fact, it makes perfect sense.
The Astartes Legions, in 30K, were the Imperium's primary military force, but as a result of the Codex Astartes: they haven't been the Imperium's primary military for a long, long time. The Imperial Guard (although it had been the garrison/reserve force during the Great Crusade) *_are_* the Imperium's primary ground-warfare military.
It is not an exaggeration to say that 90-95% of the Imperium's military might and power stems *_entirely_* from the Imperial Guard, Mechanicus (including the Titan Legions and Knight Households), and Navy.
The Sisters of Battle, Astartes, Custodians, etcetera: are all basically special forces units (although the Sisters are primarily an arm of the Ecclesiarchy). They are deployed *_not_* to be the biggest military force in the field, they are deployed to accomplish specific tasks that need to be done quickly or quietly or with maximum efficiency.
The Astartes Chapters are the Imperium's scalpel compared to ImpGuard being its hammer. When you want something done that is vitally important, but you can't quite divert hundreds of thousands or millions of troops, or several battlefleets to do it, you send out a ping to a local Astartes Chapter to have *_them_* take care of it. Sometimes, like in the Wars for Armageddon, you'll have Astartes Chapters serving special battlefield roles under the command or jurisdiction of ImpGuard Generals, as needed.
Granted, all of this was the case before Guilliman returned, when he led a Legion-sized contingent of Primaris on the Indomitus Crusade. But while he is making revisions to the Codex Astartes, the 1,000 man limit is still perfectly valid. Having a million chapters of independent Astartes/Primaris forces, all working on their own assignments and their own pools of resources: is far more useful to the Imperium than just having them in 100,000-man blobs that can't properly maneuver for the same reasons that the Navy can't often maneuver to respond to threats.
You raise some valid points, but, counterpoint, if they are only 1k strong, why do blood angels have more lore and rules than entire xenos races? GW has told us that this 1k squad is more important than the entire T'au empire, which is bull. Imperial guard is treated as an afterthought, as a "oh this isn't that important, send the guard" I agree, guard SHOULD be the main force, and the marines SHOULD be the elite strike forces, but that is not how the lore or the rules of the game treat them.
@@bobthegamingtaco6073
Because Space Marines sell like fucking hot-cakes, that's why.
GW gets most of its money from Marines, so they pump more money into more and more lore and models for Marines.
The way it is in the lore has little to do with the amount of content and product made for it lmfao
By that logic, Jedi must be about half the population of the Star Wars galaxy simply because 85% of the stories told in Star Wars feature Jedi lol
@@Ambulatory_Viscount By the way, there were canonically something like 10,000 to 100,000 Jedi as of the Clone Wars. It's not super clear, but like. A very small number, proportionately.
Of course, Star Wars pulled its own version with Three Million Clones vs a quintillion droids, but let's not discuss that.
(Also, as I noted elsewhere, each chapter has its own small squadron of capital starships. Which almost makes them a navy that can also raid, appropriate for *Space Marines*)
"Sisters are primarily an arm of the Ecclesiarchy)"
Specifically, they're site security, bodyguards, and enforcers. The level of force they can deploy may seem excessive, but this is a universe where not only do relics have actual power, there is a powerful enemy willing and able to take action to destroy or corrupt them with potentially disastrous consequences.
... several such enemies, really.
Bruh, Stormlance with Space Wolves and their Thunderwolf Cavalry is amazing.
"what does octopuses have to do with hockey" *ad for Octa plays*
Whenever the lore gives you a number it’s usually a good idea to add an extra zero or two.
That meme was fun on resit for. Week. The 100 emperor's fighting the 2000 chaos gods.
I know you're half joking about the British English spellings, but you've got to remember that a lot of the English language comes from the Norman invasion of 1066 bringing a lot of the French language into British/English usage. The British spelling of Manoeuvre comes from the French spelling manoeuvre which, in turn, is derived from the Latin manuoperare derived from the Latin words Manus (hands) & operari (to work)...
Oh God I laughed so hard at the octopus comment XD So glad to hear some hockey stories during a 40k podcast lmfao
Also wanna stay that Stormlance is insanely good for Space Wolves. Being able to launch a ton of Thunderwolf Cavalry into the fray ends up helping them so much.
Just wanted to say that I have just recently got into warhammer after playing inquisitor martyr and finally started an army, Custodes, because I have been enjoying their lore and being gold clad ultimate warriors. Plus being a painting noob, but I have been listening to all of your podcasts and have been enjoying all the knowledge you both have and the fun banter giving me confidence to give it a try plus now I really want orcas because they sound fun and chaotic. So thank you and keep up the good work.
Dark Angels being the better bike army right now is funny
14:00 Oouuuuuh nice, I remember when you brought that up. Nice to see it might happen ^^
The face of the Imperial Fists marine in the middle of Anvil Siege Force is so damn funny.
Oh, your favorite Space Marines...let's listen as I clean the house
As someone who is started warhammer this year, and writing my own Alpha Legion successor chapter, thank you for this video. The Beheaded will have their revenge for the Murder on Pluto, destroying the Imperium's defences and erasing unfound STCs. "No longer do we fight a War of Blood and Bullets. We fight a War of Knowledge".
I still feel like they could've went a step further and had like a addon for detachments that would become available to you based on if you choose to lock yourself to a chapter with a specific character or 2. This addon sheet would have like maybe 3 thematic and exclusive choices to bring that could flesh out your chapter further. As it stands chapters like WS and RG don't have much to any identity left compared to say something like ultras if what now defines us is purely exclusive datasheets.
As a deathwatch main id love it if we werent op and then nerfed into the ground and left to fester. Just make special ammo flavourful instead of it always endeding up as OP into trash every single time.
Deathwatch is still playable homie
@@HighMarshalBiggusDickus yeah playable sure, i take over priced kill teams to my club every week, with a combo of 60% of my strats being about bolt weapons in a time where you dont pay fir wargear so never take bolt weapons and it just feels bad is all.
Thank you.
This was desperately needed
1:00 firestorm ass is my favorite detachment ❤
For the marines who enjoy way too spicy foods!
This podcast a months ago inspired me to get into the hobby and the first thing I did was get a mix of loyalists and chaos marines to make an alpha legion warband. If you want a good loyalist group name, an interesting idea would be the codeword Xenophon used to activate alpha legion sleeper agents to side with loyalists. “Xenophon Company” “Xenophon Task Force” for example.
Brad if you see this im using your loyalist alpha legion idea started with the BP space marine box, my first ever box. Been working on it since last year and I’m happy that this video helped me think of how to run them
Great content! Good topic to cover also. I'm still bummed that Stormlance works better with Space Wolves and Dark Angels than White Scars.
What makes it even worse is that the rules for the Ravenwing detachment for Dark Angels would probably make a White Scars army that leans into cavalry so much better.
@@Calvin_Coolage True! I love the White Scars -- I'm saving models to make them (or a WS successor chapter) my first Space Marine army - but they're not getting much love from GW at the moment....
33:57 Gotta say that « manœuvre » is a French word, and œ is a letter called « e in the o » which appears form time to time French words such as « œil » (=eye) … this explains that i guess (I’m French btw)
I always thought a scout heavy list would be a lot of fun and I'm glad there's a detachment that works good for that
Is this an editing problem or something wrong with UA-cam player, but during end credits there is only bases with no models on them on the background?
I have a weird idea for a firestorm list for iron hands.
Specifically by going tank focused with your infantry being either in transtports and on bikes. Really play into your transport vehicles alongside some heavy tanks in the back and having a nice diverse set of mobile infantry.
Plus the bikes are just fun to pair with other vehicles esthetically. No idea if this would be that functional as a build though.
"Sons of the Hydra" is fitting name for your totally loyalist successor chapter
Stormlance is insane for space wolves because so many of their units have rules based around advancing or charging. Blood claws, grey hunters, thunderwolf cavalry, wulfen dreadnoughts, skyclaws, ragnar blackmane, and thunderwolf mounted characters all get some kind of boost from advance and charge, so it's no surprise that stormlance is chosen so often over champions of russ, a detachment that doesn't give you any bonuses unless your characters 1v1 various enemies or pull off specific feats
The Red Wings are the chapter in the book "Astorath: Angel of Mercy." But that's the only time I can think of they've been present in a book. They might have been mentioned in the Devastation of Baal though. but it's hard to tell because Guy Haley went full ad-lib mode trying to create 300 successors for that book.
The Hydra Marines, which are totally an ultramarine successor chapter. Known for their habit to often run missions with their cousins the Ultra Alphas from the same founding.
I've never understood why they consider 1000 marines to be so few? In the lore a space marine is the force equivalent of 100 guardsmen, so each chapter is the equivalent of 100,000k guardsmen. Factor in the fact that the 1000 doesn't include support personnel like servitors and chapter serfs it's not really that little.
You cannot protect an entire solar system with just 100,000 guardsmen, same logic applies to SP chapters.
Space Marines are not used by themselves but operate alongside other Imperial forces in a theater. They are used as elite shock troops used for specific battles and engagements. And generally this is only one or two companies of a Chapter.
@haissake space marines are not designed to fight defensively, it actually goes against all their instincts. They need to be on the offensive and they do that the best by trying to end a conflict as quickly as possible. Standard doctrine is for the astartes to cut off the head of the leadership of who they are fighting, whether its orks, chaos space marines, eldar, tau, necrons, tyranids you name it most factions loose cohesion and effectiveness once their leaders are slain. And that is where astartes excel, appearing in the rear lines, removing command elements and then using their superior mobility to surround and pick off the remaining enemies. A chapter is perfectly adequate for said role and its only seen as a problem now because two factions that didn't exist during the great crusade era have shown up and have no real doctrinal precedence.
@@colinbielat8558 you fool! The best offence is a good defense, as Rogal Dorn once said.
Because its stated Hive fleets and ork waarghs are described to have trillion-strong forces, and each army are often compared to guardsmen in the "drown them in men" strategy. I personally think it should be 10,000 marines, as that makes each chapter into the size of a roman cohort. 10 cohorts = 1 legion. Just makes more sense to me
Talking about space marines for a whole episode caused Brad enough existential pain to feed Commorragh for a week.
Have you guys covered the Minotaurs chapter? If not, would love an episode on them, and if so, where were they covered ?
My understanding of Binaric is that while yes Admech do talk to machines this way, its very similar to High Gothic in that it *can* be learnt but is primarily used just as a form of communication between Admech because its supposed to be faster/more efficient, as well as not understood by most of the imperials who might be nearby for privacy.
Any plans for another “journey collecting” video? I’ve watched the Drukhari one like 5 times at this point, love the format and content :)
For anvil, my friend run double Las repulsors (BASE heavy) and 10 hellblasters with a lieutenant and use the sustained hits 5+ if you didn't move strat.
So I didn't want to be space marine player when I started looking at army's, but I fell in love with the black templars, I enjoy their kits, and their esthetics, current reading lore
For stormlance it is also notable that the wolves riding wolves really like it, making it a bit more versatile, just for a more divergent chapter with their own book lol.
As a fellow early 30s, I agree, we are all falling apart.
The other day I sneezed too hard and my back hurt for one hour.
I find it funny how the Iron Hands one is what the Salamanders use to have during 8th edition before the tournament people ruined it. The one reroll to wounds and hits was nice
Iron spear is so fun. "Dreadnaughts and termies look dope" is what got me to finally try 40k. My 2k space marine list that I run when people are OK with legends and proxies has a redemptive, 2 ballistus dreads (1 being a 3d print), a contemptor, and I wanna add a dorito or whatever you call it. And that's not counting tanks or transports. But my god is it fun to just march a wall of Dreadnaughts up the board just blasting away
Vanguard Spearhead goes from "sneaky" to "Death Guard at Long Range" thanks to the Shadow Masters detachment rule. -1 to hit on some Dark Angels terminators is the worst
So after finging tts and then the algorithm deciding that "you'll like this podcast", i picked up the salamander warforged box at my local game store. Im trying to get into the hobby and was wondering if i could get some tips on where to go from my start point. Box had adrax, 3 aggressors, 3 eradicators and 20 intercessors. Was looking at the starter set for the price and has a few units that look good or the dark angels combat patrol for some of its units (chaplains and dreadnought)
The current DA combat patrol is really good for fleshing out a beginning SM army. The new one comes out very soon (this week?), so I'd grab it soon if you can. The Blood Angels one isn't too bad either.
@@jeffrobagman2834 that’s why I was looking at the starter set as well. A primaris captain, 5 terminators and 5 infernus marines and a set of tyranids to go against as practice for $130 cad. Pretty much the space marine combat patrol minus a librarian and a start to another army for $60 less. I was hearing intercessors are not the greatest so I was trying to avoid collecting a pile of them.
perfect way to start the warthunder grind
I wouldve mentionned Space Wolves for stormlance as well, since Thunderwolves work very well there
I assume Endryd Haar, Legion of the Damned, Chaos Marines, Fire Hawks, and Tiger Claws can’t be Primaris Sized because they separated from the Imperium long ago, as Firstborn, does that sound correct?
For a succesor to Alpha Legion, how about the Betaneian Hinds? Capturing the Ceryneian Hind (a big ass deer made of brass) was Hercules's labor after slaying the hydra, which fits with Beta being after Alpha. It allows for a brass color scheme and a deer/hunting motief for flair. And as a symbol, it matches the myth: they have to do the impossible task of hunting down the alpha legion, but will succeed in the end.
And it can be shortened to the B-Hinds to match the toilet bowl 😊
I feel they did a good job representing Chapters through the detachments so far in this edition. Especially given how much simpler they had to make it compared to 8.5-9th editions.
Every themed list I've made feels very much on theme for the Chapter I chose, which is super cool!
(They should krump the 1st Company Task Force though. It's literally just an extra, poorly-written detachment that makes Space Marines have even more than other factions).
I feel the Invictor warsuit is just for those guys who wanna be a Dreadnaught really bad, but aren't hurt enough for it.
I like the idea of a loyalist alpha legion chapter being named "Hydra Dominus"
Hi!
Im thinking about start a little (750-1000) Grey Knight army.
But without a starter box.
Is the Leviathan box termis good for GK, if they are cheap or normal termi box.
I mean, even before the 10th edition, you could paint your marines in blue and still play them as Iron Hands, you just had to invent a successor chapter called the Blue Fists ^^
The video I needed! My leviathan box arrives tomorrow! Looks like I’m going Ultraboys everything else looks intimidating never painting or building before. Lol
That's funny. I'm making my own successor chapter with 'suspicion ' of genesedes from Alpha Legion and Imperial fists/templars. Mixed of sneaky long shooty and 'in your face fighting'. I named the The Void Serpent. I play them as Deathwatch for now. Just for fun. But Vanguard and Gladius are tempting vs "very fast and chargy " army
I wish the storm lance enhancements also worked on jump pack marines