Wheel of Time Is STUMBLING Into Quality! ( S2 Episode 5 )
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- Опубліковано 23 сер 2024
- My thoughts on the 5th episode of season 2 of Wheel of Time!
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Big thank you to Arthur Barreto for the sick thumbnail. You can reach them at contact@abthumbnails.com
People have been making fun of the faces in the thumbnails recently so I figured let’s lean into it and do my best Zoolander impression!
I love it, it makes the thumbnails funny.
Give me that blue steel!
Any chance we could get the video about condensing the villains linked in the comments or the description?
I counted before the fight, 10 Children of the Light vs Aviendha & Perrin. Seems a reasonable outcome. Mat losing his scene also broke my heart. I'm pretty much on par with your evaluation of the season though I started a full point lower, so I rate this episode at a 6. Most of the rewriting is caused by condensing, which could be fixed by longer seasons. Indeed, it is a new turning of the Wheel, vaguely inpired by Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time bookseries. The other half of the rewriting is caused by selfserving feminism. Starved for Wot-content as we are, we soldier on through this self-proclaimed feminist view of Rafe Judkins on what he thinks WoT should be.
Dain bornhald is not a questioner, Eadam valda is in the show.
Remember, in the books the Aiel don't even consider the Aiel War a real war. For them it was an execution. They came, killed the guy that deserved killing, then left.
I was thinking the same.
It wasn't a war. And so they didn't treat it as a war. It was more akin to a drunken frat boy excursion where they were fooling around while looking for the guy who needed to be executed.
the aiel really are OP beyond suspension imo
@@aaronhackney9652 Their entire civilization has been based on getting and staying maximally badass so they'll be ready to throw down in the apocalypse. Every nation has soldiers, but no other nation *is* a military.
Why would you bring books into the conversation about this totally unrelated show that just happens to have people with the same names?
@@jshudson81 this is a completely disingenuous take. Anybody that says it is just being a troll at this point.
Early in the episode Moraine called Lanfear "the most dangerous forsaken" my wife was like "What about Ishmael?" and I said "Well Ishmael couldn't get Rand into bed" Boy did my eyes pop out of my head when we see Ishmael in bed with Rand CARESSING him.
Ishamael, not Ishmael.
There's a comma missing there, I think. Right after 'with Rand'?
@@paulkelly2701 you are right, otherwise it sounds like Rand is caressing Ishmael.
Except it wasn't
@@finman123🤓
Stumbling into quality is one of the funniest backhanded compliments I've ever read 💀
The face as well is hillarious 🤣
Its very accurate though 😂
Stumbling into quality... Because everything else has been so bad so far that there's nowhere else to go?
I'm watching this show simply to see how bad it gets. Kind if like not being able to look away from a gruesome car wreck. Judkins has turned Jackson's butchery of LotR into a magnum opus of fidelity in comparison... Sort of a Southpark meets Idiocracy blend. Sad.
its more like a backhanded, inadvertant self deprecration of Daniel Greene's over-estimation of himself
maybe try actually watching it and not puking out other lesser manbaby opinions you just heard online. Season 2 is fantastic@@paulfelix5849
As someone who hasn't read the books, the Horn of Valere just feels like a "Oh yeah this thing is still around and is important... I guess?"
No time. There have been bits mentioning the people hunting for the horn and, at the very end of the last episode, the guy said he could take over the world with that horn, but that's been it. I'm sure they'll read the inscription on it sooner or later, which should help.
@@ZlothZloth or they could have just had Lanfear constantly tell Rand to strive for greatness and blow the horn like she does the entire book and we would know how important it is… every time they are in a town or city people should be talking about it in the background… it is so easy to make its importance known
@@SuspenseGamesyeah but in the show Rand doesn't have access to the horn so that wouldn't make sense. Yet another way the stupidity of season 1 has fucked things up
Just wait.
i’m reading book 7 right now and after book 2, that’s how the horn feels tbh. like, yeah, it was important for like a 1000 pages and it’s never been mentioned again 🤷🏻♀️
Personally, I took the scene where Lanfear healed herself & then called Moraine a "b*tch" to just be another representation of the fact that her & Ishy (and all of the Forsaken) are from a different time as everybody else. 🤷🏻♀️😏 They're from the Age of Legends, which was very modern. Hence, why Ishy has sometimes dressed differently from the other Men around him if you'll notice. Like wearing a necktie. lol I LIKE these little nods to the fact that they are thousands of years old, and from a time *before* The Breaking.
My favourite nod this episode was when she first got the horse and was like "is there a slower way to travel", because she was probably used to actual vehicles pre-Breaking
I think the one thing the show has always handled well since the beginning is dropping these very obvious hints (without outright telling us) that the world before the Breaking was actually a highly advanced society, both technologically and socially - this world isn't medieval fantasy, its post-apocalyptic
@@meandmyinsanityI was a bit surprised at that. Since I thought all Forsaken could Travel. I.e. magical travel. But I guess she wouldn't be able to track anyone by doing that.
I'm guessing that once she was told the road was going to Tar Valon, she would just Travel there and wait for them.
I assume she can travel, but she was chasing people on horseback, unless she knew a ambush spot to wait for them and that is harder to explain in a show without exposition
@@smaug1234I assume you were responding to me.
And yes, that's what I meant, when I said she wouldn't be able to track anyone if she used Travelling. But now that she believes they are going to Tar Valon, it's not unlikely that she will just Travel there and wait for them.
I thought that the healing also worked as a nice bit of contrast between channeling the Dark One's essence compared to the One Power. (Of course, maybe the writers didn't do their magic system homework but I like the idea that they did and wanted to begin showing how the Dark One's gifts are very much too good to be true)
"I don't know how the Aiel war wasn't just a wash". I mean....wasn't it though? For Cairhien it was an apocalyptic event that required calling on aid from all of the Westlands, and they're still dealing with the fallout 20 years later. To the Aiel it was just a series of skirmishes leading up to an execution, and they're dismissive of the idea of even calling it a war.
i’m so sorry but lanfear first words after she wakes up being “bitch” is just SOOO on brand for her, love that scene
Loved it so much.
Yeah, considering how she cusses out Rand's girlfriends to his face, and this is her alone, after being DISRESPECTED AF. I think WoT books were TOO sanitized, considering what type of conflicts it contains, and for *supposedly* adult characters that play in it it's too clean, so this is - if not completely book accurate - IS a good change. Oh and regarding the books, it had a very 'tell don't show' attitude towards actual swearing, but the books DID contain it - the dock workers and such that Elayne constantly learned new cuss words from, etc. The insults were too milktoast tho, doubt they would've worked for TV and modern audiences ("Bloody goat kisser" oh no, what foul language, deary me)
@@uuamenator The whole idea with swearing in the books was that their swears are just as bad as ours in the context of the world, and that most of our swears don't even exist in that world.
Which is a bit arbitrary since every other word in the English language seems to exist in that world, unless maybe you think of it as the common language of that world not canonically being English really, it's just written down in English for us to read. Which would make a lot more logical sense.
@@Tan12 Oh i agree, this is totally the implied canon reason for the swears being goofy and childish, but it was also (probably) due to real world decision to make the text be clean, and the made up cusswords are mild and gentle which just felt grating to me in the books. I picked up WoT well into my adulthood and my subjective view will be very different from people that grew up reading the series.
I kinda think her using swear words from a different time period makes sense. She’s been asleep for a while! Maybe “bitch” is just a bit outdated.
Worth noting that this wasn’t just “any” Aiel - it’s Aviendha. She’s a badass even by Aiel standards.
Favourite scene with Avi and Perrin when she just broke out. Looking at Dain and Perrin saying "he gave you water". You can see her struggle with it so much and to new viewers they'll be like "huh?", but it was a very nice foreshadowing.
Did you notice that Moiraine hesitated when introducing Rand? I believe she tried to lie and in that moment found out that she couldn’t. Proving she is shielded and not stilled like she fears
I can't see how an Aes Sedai can be unsure as to whether she's shielded or stilled.
The difference should be HUGE.
But then, it's not like these producers know very much about The Wheel of Time. So they might not understand the difference.
@@Tjalve70 Mate, even in the books not much is known about stilling, Aes Sedai shy away from the subject because it scares them. When a Sister is shielded it’s with Saidar and so they can see/feel the weaves blocking them. Saiden is used by Ishy on Moraine so for her all she feels is a permanent wall between her and the source. How is she supposed to know what stilling feels like? She is operating on 1 fact and 1 fact alone, she can no longer channel. Maybe you should read the books more 😉
@@DustyMoth. from someone who's slowly making my way through the books (I just started reading book 11, and it's been a couple years since I read the first few books), is that even possible? I mean possible to be continually shielded without being there, and unaware? I thought I remembered when the sisters were shielding the false dragon, they had to keep it up constantly, it wasn't something you could just place and forget. I might just be forgetting tho, like tying off a weave or something.
@@davidpo5517 you can tie off a shield. It’s not usually done because it makes it easier to break. And it is extremely painful to break a shield. Moraine just knows she is cut off from the One Power and could be assuming that she was stilled. Cause honestly if I was her and a Forsaken cut me off from the Power I’d assume it was permanent too 👍
She was shielded by a male channeler so she wouldn't be able to see or feel the weave. And yeah the assumption is that the weave of the shield was tied off.
The actressess for Moiraine and her sister did not have to go so hard in this episode but I enjoyed it
WoT being decent is the biggest surprise of 2023.
I like that Lanfear's weaves were transparent/only invisible in the last episode, I hope they chose to show it that way because Rand wouldn't have been able to actually see the weaves directly
I also really like Valda. "Heavy is the suckling child" is such a cold line.
Yeah Abdul might be my favorite casting in the series so far. Eamon Valda is just delicious and the way Abdul delivers some of his lines is just fun to watch.
The sheer disrespect of that line!! XD I was cackling like a mad witch it caught me so off guard for some reason!
Man seems like he's having a lot of fun. I think if that's one thing I can appreciate from this season and even s1 is that the actors definitely seem to be enjoying making the show. And Most* of them are doing a really fantastic job with the script they're given
It's a really inventive way to call someone a nepobaby.
Also loved Dain teasing him back about being afraid of Wolves.
Liandrin’s lean against the wall when Verin sees her is comedy gold!
Ahvienda speaking in an irish accent is one of the coolest and most subtle bits of foreshadowing in the entire show.
I didnt notice Irish, more Cornish to me... subtly though... I guess we will know for certain when we meet more of them.
@@stewartkingsleyWell, the actor is Irish, so there's that.
That was an Irish accent?!?
The aiel humor that doesn't land for wetlanders is wonderful 🤣 can't wait for more of them to get together and make jokes and get absolute crickets
Also- PLEASE continue doing full book spoilers at the end. There is a lot that went on in the books that I would assume a lot of us who have only read it once through don’t remember. And you reminding us of them is wonderful
The Aeil wars WERE basically a wash... They were on basically unstoppable in the books during the wars. The only reason it stopped is because they only had a singular mission to kill the king. Once the king was dead they basically packed up and went back to the Threefold land. In the books every soldier that participated in the war talked about how they basically couldn't be stopped. The only reason that they didn't take over and conquer everything... Is because that wasn't their goal.
I believe they are intentionally not focusing on the Horn of Valere because they want a huge reveal featuring Mat in ep7 or 8.
Nynaeve is going to blow the horn
@@Ehz22 no
This is an over generalization, but I feel like if you’re a book reader for this show you are more likely to enjoy the show if you read the books more recently vs growing up with them or having them be one of the first fantasy series you read. As someone who read them last year, most of the changes don’t bother me at all and a majority of them this season I kind of prefer for a TV show format. It seems like some people struggle to avoid picking out all of the differences between the two because they are frustrated when it isn’t how they pictured it for over a decade, whereas for someone like me, I don’t feel as attached to the way things were described or played out in the books.
Also, this isn’t meant to be a knock on anyone, just an observation. Mainly writing this because when Daniel rated it a seven I was like “whoa I feel like we just watched two different shows.”
I, uh, I don't know about that. I started reading the books last summer and I'm currently on book five. Strangely, I feel like the show drags more than the books do (not a popular opinion, I know), and I often find myself thinking, "Just cut to the chase," while watching the show. Don't get me wrong, I don't hate this show, but it really does feel like a chore for me to watch.
I reread the series immediately before the first season and it honestly made the whole thing worse. Season 2 is substantially better than season 1, but that's a low bar and it's still not at a level where it could be considered comparable
I started reading them 15 years ago and I don’t have any issues :) everyone is different!
@@willmangrum3686 Because you know the story already, its mostly unsurprising stuff. Except for where they do unexpected things.
I read the books recently and I absolutely despise this show, the changes ate ridiculous and unfounded, this show is WoT in name only because there is 0 resemblance to the books.
I doubt they are going to cut that Mat scene entirely. It will happen eventually. Its honestly the scene that made me start liking Mat.
In the books that scene with the Andor boys took place after the events of Falme. I'm praying we will see it in Season 3
They fucking TEASED us with all the scenes in the Warder training court yard within the Tower, it looks exactly like in the books and I so thought they were building up to that by showing it so much. They had ample opportunity to show it when Mat was wandering around and decided not to talk to Egwene and I'm so upset they didn't do it. I doubt they're going to do it at all at this point, because if they were it would've been then. And in season 3 they're kinda going straight from Falme to Rhuidean, as Rafe said that season will be a very close adaptation of book 4.
Its such an iconic scene. I think they are waiting until they have even introduced the other guys later where they can be involved until the end of the show instead of bringing them up and then having them disappear for 2 seasons.
The showrunner apparently said that that particular Mat scene is an important moment for him so im pretty sure that were gonna get it.
@@ProvidenceNL Yeah but he also said season 3 is going to be a very close adaptation of the Shadow Rising, so Mat will pretty much go straight from Falme to Rhuidean, so I don't know how they'd fit it in. If they were gonna do it they should've done it when Mat was wandering around, and decided not to talk to Egwene. I really thought they were building up to that scene with how much they showed the Warder training courtyard in the Tower. It looks exactly like in the books, with the sand and everything, and I thought they were showing it so much to forshadow that scene, but apparently not.
I hopped into the book to where Perrin frees Gaul and it mentions 10 or a dozen whitecloaks. There is also a paragraph that ends "and breaks the arm of a fourth'
So I think the tv/book Aeil are pretty much level.
Note to self - rewatch the scene and see how close it is to the book description?
The verrin thing should definitely NOT be cut . The one part of the book that actually made me cry with appreciation for Verrin's valor and sheer nerdy awesomeness.
Nah with that huge nudgewink line she gave Moiraine in the last episode, there's literally zero chance they'll drop her pivotal moment.
I'm not kidding when I say that plotline was my favorite part of the entire series. I'd be devastated if they took it out.
@@jonathanbost8427 I'm devastated NOW, I can't belive that Verin is a Black Ajah, I'm on my ass right now. I shouldn't whatch the last 3 minutes of that video. I'm gonna have to cope for days. CAN'T BELIVE IT. Je suis dégoûtée, litteralement.
I should 'thumbs down' your comment not giving a 'spoiler warning', but I just can't. I felt the exact same feel when it was confirmed to me in the books, Though, without the knowledge of her deeds to come, which makes your reaction that much more understandable.@@thalanys7184
They're treating the Forsaken like the Venerate from the Licanius trilogy so far and I'm loving it. Though so far we've only seen Ishamael and Lanfear so that could change.
I am almost certain I remember hearing an interview bit with Rafe Judkins where he mentions the Matt/Gawyn/Galad fight as being one of his favorite scenes from the books and wanting to make sure he does it justice in the show…
So I’m pretty confident that we’re going to get that scene at some time, but I doubt it will be this season.
Not sure if you caught this but I'm fairly certain the power Lanfear uses to heal herself is the true source. There's a blackness to it and they even showed black streaks across her eyes. If this is right I think this is a perfect way to implement immortality based on how the true source works in the books. I think they can still stick to most of the book events without making them too OP. It also makes me think Rands favorite ability should still be able to kill them when it comes to that in the series. Re: Verin I also thought of the book reveals for each of those characters.
"Fuck it, laser fight time!"
I hadn't thought about it like that, but that does make more sense in terms of "the one power can't heal death" and the dark one being able to resurrect the forsaken in the books being represented as the true power being able to heal death in the show
The S'aa are in her eyes as she channels the True Power and we see completely black weaves. Not "tainted" black like Male Channelers but totally black.
It's pretty blatantly the True Source, it fits the description too perfectly for it to be a coincidence.
Loved the recap! This season has really picked up for me too into solid territory. Absolutely loved everything with Ishamael and Lanfear here, those actors are slaying.
The "nothing faster than horses" comment was beautiful for me. Because yeah, Lanfear is used to some really efficient forms of travel from the age of legends --horses could feel primative.
It is interesting to me that she knows how to ride a horse considering she is from a futuristic magical utopia.
Perhaps she just happened to be into equestrianism like LTT, Be'lal and I think Demandred and Sammael were into fencing/kendo (they call it "Swords" unless I am misremembering).
@@gokbay3057 Fair! Maybe the world had broken enough by the time she was imprisoned that horses became necessary? Although I guess a few centuries of life leaves a lot of time to pick up hobbies, so that makes sense, too.
The aiel are portrayed as near superhuman in all the books. i mean the shado stormed a walled city with no amor or seige equipment and almost won except for *spoilers*
Definitely not super human - peak human for sure. “1 Shinaren with a sword bs 1 aiel with just their hands = fair fight.”
They are not superhuman. Cairhien was stormed by 200,000 Aiel! And it was defended by about 60,000 people - and a few channelers that destroyed everything. 1000 Show-Aiel would be able to take Cairhien from 60,000 soldiers.
@@apavlides24adw80 200 aiel take the stone of tear despite it having thousands of elite guards....They even have the luxury of capturing their foes though they do take heavy casulties.
The Aiel are as fast on foot as horses. Yeah, they are superhuman
Oh no I just got spoiled on, please put the spoiler warning before your comment next time.
Note how Aviendha after downing a white cloak goes for a stick as her weapon instead of the sword. Just loved it, though I know some new people to the series will be thinking “wtf why use a stick instead of the sword”
I really enjoyed this episode. I think Fares and Natasha are killing it. That meeting in TAR at the end of the episode is so good and so representative of how the Forsaken are to me I just loved it. Especially Lanfears "Obviously' line for me just had me so thrilled on first watch. I also just like Fares line delivery at certain points. When he is talking to Min in her dream for example, I don't know if it is the accent or a conscious line delivery choice but either way I really like what he is doing this season. Natasha really put over that she was playing a part with Selene and now this is the real her, didn't have me questioning at all, nicely done the way they flipped that switch.
I also really liked the brown ajah stuff personally. I agree it seems less formal the way they are treating the AS overall which I do think humanizes them a bit compared to the books, not sure if that is needed but seems like what they are going for. I always liked that AS came across as composed and always in control then you just eventually find out it's mostly a front and they are just like everyone else trying to figure it out as they go.
i think Liandrin's talk in the Ways emphasizes a bit more about humanizing the Aes Sedai. They have to keep up the appearance of actually being human or else they'll be torn down as monsters.
I've been a Natasha O'Keefe fan for a while, I love her for Lanfear.
i love how the Forsaken are unapologetic completely evil villains. Just like they were in the books. Its refreshing
We know that Gawyn and Galad are currently in Caemlyn, it wouldn’t surprise me too much it Mat returned to with Egwene and Elayne and encountered the duo there.
I’m so glad to hear you are coming around. I’m a big fan of the books but had much less trouble letting go of them than most book fans.
This review just solidified something that I've started to realize about Daniel. He is a huge fan of the villians, the brutal, and the devious, but not so much of the good guys. His praise for this episode fell on Ishy, Lanfear, Valda, the shows characterization of the Seanchan, Moiraine's ruthlessness towards both the horse and stablehand, and the book spoiler plot at the end of the video. And in past reviews one of his favorite characters has been Liandrin. So from now on, I think I'll take his review of any of the good guys and add one to two points to it, just to counteract what I believe to be his bias.
My theory is that villains make the movies. Star Wars, Dark knight, Thanos were all great because of the villains.
in most cases villains are more three dimensional than the protagonists because some authors/writers refuse to make the good guys flawed
@@orion00 RJ did do a better job of creating the villains than the good guys, they are more unique to WOT than the good guys are, who while they are well done are a little bit more generic than the bad guys.
It's almost like he has preferences. Ick
@@HarldinNot at all the case. In the books most of the villains were plain boring and we're very 2d.
Collectively they were interesting but individually they didnt have any motivation, bavk story etc. They were bad just because they were for the most cases.
Except Ishamael and Lanfear.
Even the darkfriends and Black sisters didnt have any depth to them. It felt just bad vs good cliche showdown for the most part.
I loved the Verin sections. She is kind of awesome. Really enjoying the show. Thanks for your thoughts, Daniel, always appreciated and I cannot wait for the Fringe video. An all time classic show.
Side note: Thursdays at lunch are the busiest UA-cam times? Wow.
Maybe the Thursdays at lunch can be explained by a decent chunk of his audience being European/global? (us Europeans being 5-7 hours ahead of you). Also, I think I watch UA-cam more consistently on weekdays.
Can't wait for the epic 208 to come, this season has been a stable and fulfilling journey
Everyone to Rand: “you look like an aiel”
Rand: black?
I’m so confused by the casting choices…
Ethnicity and culture isn’t always the same
@@spacelia3920Nobody has said that Rand culturally looks like an aiel.
Rand is tall. Aiels are tall. Rand has red hair, Aiels have red hair. Rand physically and ethnically looks like an aiel.
And that's why it's strange that Aviendha is played by a black actor.
But then again, all of the Emond's Field Five are of different ethnicity as well. So it's quite obvious that the producers have decided to be completely colour blind, and ignore ethnicity in the casting choices.
@@Tjalve70I meant more that the Aiel could be a culture with different ethnicities - and one of those happens to be the only ethnicity with red hair in this world. Kind of “all redheads are Aiel, but not all Aiel are redheads”
@@spacelia3920If the Aiel are a culture with different ethnicities, then the statement "you look like an Aiel" would have no meaning.
I find it very unlikely that there are NO redheads in the wetlands. But Rand is BOTH a redhead AND he's tall. And there are other reasons that he looks like an Aiel.
So I would still say that Aiels need to have a common look.
@@Tjalve70 exactly, you're so right.
Daniel. I remember when they announced the actors and it was clear to that this wasn’t going to be done well. End of day. Rafe is an agents of shield quality director, not a game of thrones or lord of the rings
I actually like that they are using ishamaels character from later in the books. Him as a philosopher explaining why he joined the shadow was awesome. Plus I loved the line that he is the only one that truly believes in the dark
Are we forgetting dark friend Dana? This is exactly what she said, ripping the philosophy right out of Ishamael's mouth.
@@wighty5860 Wow almost forgot about her. My mind was thinking books only with this response. I think this the show is going for humanizing the average dark friend to show that not everybody goes towards the shadow for thoughts of power or lust
Question for book readers: The concept for "the Wheel" with its aspects of reincarnation seem overtly reminiscent to me of the idea of the Wheel of Samsara which many Indian religions are premised upon (Hinduism, Buddhism, Jainism). Except, in those traditions the whole goal is to get off or transcend the cycle of reincarnation entirely, not only as an individual but even for all sentient beings to eventually liberate themselves as such (stop the wheel).
Here, it seems Ishamael is similarly oriented, but it's presented as villainous. I'm just wondering why it is so, and what then is the orientation of everyone else that apparently contradicts such an orientation? Do normal people within the series just want to keep coming back?
One of the climactic scenes from the books deals with this exact question. But it's the last chapter of book 13. Who knows if the series lasts long enough to depict it.
The way of liberation in those doctrines is to transcend suffering, not to stop it. By wanting suffering to stop, Ishmael declares himself unable to transcend it, and that is why he's a villain in the series.
This is a big part of the arcs of characters for the books actually, but if you don't mind spoilers: The general population of the land enjoy the notion of "The Wheel weaves as The Wheel wills", wich can have different interpretations, but its generally used as a "Even if things get bad, we will always have another chance. Another reincarnation". A big part of Rand's character arc is about fighting this idea. He is in a mad dash to save the here and the now, and the spinning of the wheel itself. But through his journey he suffers an obscene amount, and the memories of his previous incarnation (represented through his growing madness as another person in his head) sees that his previous life ended in nothing but tragedy also. He gets deep in the sauce of "What is the point of any of it, if we just get reborn to suffer again" and acquires enough power to break the wheel itself. But as he is about to do it, he reaches an epiphany with the mad man in his head, that says that we get reborn so that we can love again, and that all the pain is worth it for all the good. His main rival in this is Ishamael/Moridin, who has a more pragmatic view of things. He sees that the goal of the Dark One is to destroy the Wheel, and believes that the Wheel spins out the Dragon infinitely to prevent that, creating a neverending struggle. As he sees that the Dark One has infinite chances, and only needs to win once to break the cycle, he sides with the side that will, with mathematical certainty, put an end to all the pointless suffering eventually (given his infinite chances to win).
@@mattia6523 I suppose the difference may be that in the aforementioned religious traditions, the very mechanism of suffering - Karma as the unconscious momentum of self-hood which perpetuates a self to be habitually formed around it as reincarnation - is the mechanism of reincarnation as well; whereas, what I'm gathering is that the mechanism of "The Wheel" is simply the function of reincarnation and not suffering, therefore to stop the wheel would not require a transcending of suffering, nor would such transcendence (if it were to exist in the story) necessarily liberate one from that process of the reincarnation? If this is the case, then I'd say Ishamael makes a more compelling point, unless there is some in-story path for transcending suffering, it seems clear that the only option for such a priority would then be to stop the Wheel.
No offense to those belief systems, but it has always seemed like kind of a miserable outlook on life, that existence should be a thing to escape. I like it here. There are sunsets and Christmases and orgasms. Life is an amazing thing. To be given endless life in endless variation would be a great blessing.
I see no reason to think they're going to cut Mat vs Gawyn and Galad. I assume Daniel is referring to him having left the White Tower already, but in the books he's not even supposed to be there yet, and he's only there now in the show because of the actor kerfuffle. In the books he's there because he's recovering from being separated from the dagger, and we haven't gotten to the point in the series yet where that's supposed to happen. So we'll just have to wait and see about that.
If I recall correctly, the Aiel War was a “wash.” They advanced without being slowed all the way to Carhien, and only stopped once Laiman was killed and The Sin was avenged.
This was the first time an episode felt like it was The Wheel of Time to me. As such it is my favorite episode thus far. I made excuses last season, and this season grew increasingly critical, but Ep 5 was very very good. I just hope it maintains or even gets better. But one of my biggest issues - the season length - is still just ruining everything. Just as it is getting good the season is almost over! 3 more episodes to do everything that needs to happen (assuming they finish Book 2 of course) is just not enough episodes. Why not 10 at a minimum which probably could be achieved with what they cut out that was actually filmed! I just already feel like I can’t let myself get too excited because if it stays good then and I love it it will be finished in 3 more episodes and another intolerable year long wait. But I fear even criticizing it in the hopes the criticisms will be heard and something done about them, as I read someone new is heading Amazon Prime and cancelling a bunch of series like The Rings of Power, etc…perhaps Wheel of Time’s comparatively cheaper budget will work to its favor in this regard, but dang, I just wish there was more, More, MORE!!!
It genuinely feels like the show has finally hit its stride. Hope it keeps up the pace.
Welp... it didn't. But maybe Rafe just needs one more season 🤡
@@Dooger414 hey... didn't ask.
I'm really enjoying how they're handling the wolf language thing. I wonder if as Perrin learns more, itll be less esoteric and more presented like in the books
"Stumbling into Quality" is the best description of the show so far lmao. Like some things are clicking and some times it feels like it's unintentional. Still a notable upgrade over season 1, but not the leap that it needs. Cutting away so many amazing book scenes for what? New stuff with Lan and the Warders?
As someone who hasn't read the books (I do plan to in the future), I've definitely found myself more entertained by this season. Without having any context for how faithful the adaption has been, it just seems like the quality of the show has risen quite a bit.
The adaptation is as faithful as a pear is to a peach, if you squint your eyes hard enough then the pear and peach kind of look alike both in form and spelling but as soon as you taste them you cant tell them apart. Let me spoil it for you, one of these fruits is pretty spoiled.
@frking100 Eh well I mean you're obviously entitled to your opinion, but I'm enjoying it. Just happy to have a decent fantasy show to watch. I don't doubt that the books are way better, and I'll be reading them next time I'm ready to dig into a new long series
Season 2 is desperately trying to get the plot on track with the books after the fiasco of Season 1.
Overall it's doing a good job, but since it needs to set up stuff that should have been done in season 1, it's rushing a lot.
But season 2 is far superior to Season 1, that's for sure.
And it's also closer to the books.
Except the Lan part... this is atrocious...
@@arenkai My main problem with season 2 is how robbed rand has been of the character development he receives in book2.
@@frking100 That is very true, but like I said, they are trying to put back the story on track I think, so I'd have to assume that we'll see the Rand development in season 3 as Rand moves towards obtaining Callandor; or in late season 2 as they build towards the first confrontation with the Seanchan.
The level of camp this episode filled me with warm tingly nostalgia. It felt like the books to me.
So true, this is the first time I am actually sad the episode ended!
I'M SO GLAD YOU HAVE FRINGE IN THE BACKGROUND! One of THE most underrated TV shows of all time, and even more difficult to follow than Lost. And even more amazing for it.
For someone who hasn't read any of the books, the show is doing a damn good job at getting me interested in the books and considering too pick them them up
I want the training scene with Mat and the boys! And dumais wells, I want Hammar to scold the wannabe warders and I want Mazrim to say "Ashaman Kill"
I think I'm speaking for at least some of the other people who haven't read the books in saying that my primary reaction to this season is confusion. Maybe I'm just not paying enough attention, but there are a lot of characters being introduced and, while I suspect that their motivations are purposefully left vague, some of the twists don't land for me because I haven't even figured out who they are, let alone what we were supposed to have thought they were doing before the big reveal of their true allegiances.
Yep, this show both alienates readers and non readers. It's bizarre
No book reader here, but totally enjoying this show now. Couldn`t take my eyes off actor who plays Ishamael, and Selene/Lanfear too. That showstopper dialog scene between them in this episode, so captivating, in the same time playful and ominous. Acting, atmosphere, costumes (costume design in this show generally), incredible. Love it.
p.s. costume design here reminded me of costumes & great sculptural clothing in Foundation S.1 and 2. (Foundation is more classic sf than fantasy though, but really amazing sf), you can see it is work of quality and love.
@@lyannamormont1473WoT and Foundation are having their moments. I loved what S2 of foundation had to offer.
Yes, I agree! 👍@@Ray03595
I disagree with you on the A'dam. I mean it wasnt what I pictured in my head but it was definitely amazingly done in the show too and that scene with Egwene was WOW. What I am not sold on are the "baby pacifiers" the Damane wear. I'm also really hyped they mentioned Graendal my favourite forsaken (confirming she exist in the show and will appear at some point).
I still think we're getting Semirhage, due to the statues in S1E5 (the 2nd from the left). I hope they're not going to retcon that. As to "The Boys" that Lanfear mentioned, it feels like Asmodean and Sammael (who are also blatantly represented in the S1E5 idols). Asmodean doesn't do a whole lot by himself other than the Shaido thing, which ended up being a flop (albeit a costly one) and Sammael is stupidly predictable and prefers brute force to any problem. Both of them fall into what Lanfear would call incompetent.
I love Samael's strat of just "Fuck subtlety. Send an obscene amount of trollocs."
Do you think Asmodean will teach Rand?
@@brittanycroy5883 That's 75% of Asmodean's entire book role, so yeah, I think that's highly likely.
Sammael does the Shaido thing. And he doesn't prefer brute force. On the contrary.
Also, Asmodean does completely nothing for the Shadow - but once caught he helps the Light. He was a great miss for the Dark One.
@@apavlides24adw80 Asmodean was the one who put the dragons on Cauladin's arms, with the intention of causing trouble within the Aiel (and effectively almost halving Rand's Aiel forces in the end, so that is hardly nothing). Sammael only did the gateway thing to spread chaos throughout the southern lands.
The Mat fight at the White Tower was one of my favorite Mat moments, as well. But there were a lot of good Mat moments after he did his thing in the three fold land. His character became so much better and more interesting after that.
There was one thing missing from this episode unless I missed it while watching. Perrin never asked Aviendha how she ended up in a cage. Wouldn't that be at the top of a list of questions to ask her after watching her steamroll all those white cloaks?
I think once he figured out he was in a white cloak encampment he put the pieces together.
I just want to say how much joy I feel in every scene with hopper. And I can finally start recommending this show to people cause when season 1 finished I was very meh on it
I forgive the show a lot solely because Hopper is best boy.
My dog is suddenly watching the show with me. Hopper is the best!
I must be in the minority here, but i thought they totally ruined Hopper, he is tiny little whimpering thing all the time He's not supposed to be cute, hes supposed to be a grizzled badass wolf. All that whimpering shit is just lame as hell. They should have made him a huge gruff scarred wolf. why is he whimpering all the damn time??
@@mikesmith1773 because hopper has to be like all the other males in the show... you know a tiny whimpering thing
@@mikesmith1773 the dogs they are using are just smaller and less threatening than wolves. It was that or CGI wolves which just would be too much. Unfortunately it can never live up to how you see it in your head
"B*tch" actually worked very good for me. Lanfear would probably be using that last time she was around.
Re potentially losing a certain scene of Mat in the White Tower with two other characters: I don't think it's important for that scene to take place in the White Tower, just that we need those three characters in one place. So if we're delaying the introduction of the other two (probably for acting logistics, just like how we didn't see Elayne for a glorified cameo in season 1), I think it makes sense to delay the scene and just have it take place somewhere else.
What about the portal stones in this episode? Im sure I saw at least two stones with “portal stone-like” inscriptions on them… when moiraine and rand wait for Lanfear to ride past them?
yep, they aren't doing portal stones imo so that glimpse is a cool easter egg!
Last 3 episodes are like this we are in for some serious goodness
Verin discovering black ajah members as well as her working out compulsion was used ties in perfectly with the books
I'm afraid the studio isn't spending money, but is wasting money. This happens more often than you think. 98% of people working on this series has no passion for the show - just making money - just a job. From the director, screen writers, actors, to camera guy - no one has a passion about the show. Unfortunately, the someone who has a passion about Wheel of Time isn't actually working on the show, and it shows.
They have actively changed the way of telling the story more efficient and in my view providing more info to non-readers in a way they didn't come close to in the first season.
New thumbnails rock my guy. UA-cam is one giant attention game, whatever you can do to grab those eyeballs is a good thing
My wife says they haven't used the tower well, they could've gone full exposition with some tower classes like Harry Potter with the school to bring the viewers and characters up to date
I'm loving this season more than the first. And as a non-reader, answering your question about the horn.
Yeap, zero idea what it does, so far, it's just a valuable treasure that gives some kind of legitimation, obviously it's supposed to have power, but, no idea.
They name dropped Gawyn in the episode as why the girls left the tower. I am hoping that with Mins vision of Mat that he will be later back at the tower in season 3 for the proper healing with the circle of Aei Sedai to fully remove the effects of the dagger (and hopefully course correct Mat to more like the books) and that Gawyn and Galad are introduced then leading to the epic Mat scene. Too much to fit in this season and it feels like all the Camelyn crew will be introduced in season 3. That's my hope.
Its the horn that makes him more... him.
Dragging Mat back to the Tower in S3 would be terrible and repetitive (it would be the 3rd season he has been in Tar Valon, S1, S2, S3), and would mean his story arc is simply stuck on a loop, going nowhere. The Tower is the worst place for a male character in this show, because they are left to sit around in rooms, doing nothing (see S1 Mat and Rand at the inn, and S2 Mat in a cell).
If Rand is headed into the Waste next season, as he must if S3 is really adapting TSR as Rafe has said, then Mat has no time to be stuck back in the Tower, he has to go with Rand to Rhuidean. The best possible opportunity for Mat’s staff fight was this season, just before he left the Tower (for what should be the last time, the rest of his story has to take place outside the Tower).
@@ThumbMerrilin I feel like they could still squeeze it into Cairhien this season maybe (or perhaps into early Season 3, not necessarily in the Tower/Tar Valon but having the main cast do some stuff in the Westlands first before going into the Aiel Waste to follow the book plot).
I'm a BookCloak, but this was my favorite episode of the show - just because it was filled with action rather than drama.
Odd choice with how elaborate the Damane Collars are now.
Making them so much bigger and require so intricate CGI to form feels like a strange allocation of resources when a simple collar would have been fine.
While you started to feel it in episodes 3 and 4, it really feels like this is the episode where you could start to see some of the seeds they've been planting coming to fruition and the momentum shift into the 2nd half of this season was handled very well, imo.
This was the first episode I genuinely enjoyed. There've been moments before, but this was the first one where any positive feelings at the end didn't have a massive asterisk. I think I'm finally at a point where I can accept that the show is more its own story than an adaptation.
Im still not 100% sold on the Natasha O'Keefe casting for Lanfear but it's mostly on the "not what I had pictured in my head" side of it. Acting wise she is killing it so much, I think that Lanfear was terrifying in this episode and so I'm glad that she's putting her significant acting chops to good use on my favorite character
I think she nails the character 100%. I picture her like that in the books (although a bit younger).
This was easily my favorite episode so far. It’s the first one where there was so little to complain about and so many good story lines that I was excited to watch the next episode and wanted it immediately.
I dont think Rafe has read the books. And if hebhas he did not understand a lot of the themes and characterizations. Its like somone who rwad the wikis of the books and watched a lot of youtube commentary but didnt actually spend the time to comprehend the writing.
This season is genuinely good and I'm not cringing every few scenes like in S1. Two shows that have really stepped up their 2nd seasons. Foundation, and Wheel of Time. I'm very pleased with both
Can't believe the lack of story progression for Rand,, and Matt. The Show runner does not know how to juggle all these characters together. Wasting too much time on Liandrin also
Rafe seem to focus too much on female characters, and too little on male characters. And I think that's intentional.
5:24 YES! yes, as that is the only satisfying lens and means by which to accept the echoes and deviations and allow to feel 'right' still. It specifically feels like we're in one of Moiraine's experiences when she goes through the Rhuidean ter'angreal with the blessing of the Aiel Wise Ones.
But can we please thank the Elayne/Nynaeve refugee scene for finally serving us some fringed shawl?
like....I consider Nynaeve's shawl in particular to be a bit of an easter egg as they wander in.
I like tho, that Nynaeve is being kind of 'taken in' by a Yellow sister. it rolls together several book characters and I think, when we encounter this Aes Sedai in the books it's just in Bayle Domon's story about her being captured by the Seanchan.
Lanfear...Freddie Kruger but super duper HOT
also tho did ya'll notice that Cho Chang of House Ravenclaw is also a member of the Brown Ajah?
Definitely my favorite episode so far. I agree with the escape of Nyn and Elayne being too easy but i don't think i noticed it until someone pointed it out. I was actually happier with the collars than i thought i would be with the leash and everything. I will say that my friends and i agree that newbies missed the impact of it ... but i guess in episode 6 that will be cleared up
I've been so pleasantly surprised by this season. I was expecting to watch the opening episodes and then dread watching the rest but then continuing to out of hope but im actually wanting more after every episode.
It's very nice to see that covid nonsense really probably was most of the problem with season 1
Ikr?
This episode was far and away the best of the series to date imo and many people seem to agree...I think the reason everyone loves this episode so much is because this is the first episode since the trollocks invaded Emonds Field that actually feels like the WoT. We get sooooo many drops directly from the books: Black Ajah, Suldam, Damane, Marath-Damane, Tel'aran'rhiod, the 3 fold land, Ji'e'toh, Car'a'carn, the Adam and leash, ,dancing the spears, the scene of handing over the girls to the Seanchan and Nynaeve and Elayne ending up in Falme while Egwene is captured...just hit after hit after hit of direct book material and THIS is what we are here for. It's so cathartic as a book fan to get all these moments and there's no question that this is why this is the favorite episode. I really hope they continue on this trend because if they do the series will end up being an absolute banger.
On the Verin plot (MAJOR BOOK SPOILERS HERE TURN BACK NOW IF YOU DONT WANT TO KNOW)... I've seen so much theorizing on what her motivation here is and questioning, is it about the girls? Is it a power play? It seems very obvious to me. Book readers know her final gift to the light when she has her big reveal with Egwene is the thorough documentation of every black sister she has identified. I think this is exactly 100% in line with that ultimate goal. Sure, she probably truly does care for the girls and want to know wtf is happening with them. But her entire ploy with her brown PI squad mentions finding every sister who came and went from the White Tower recently. It seems clear she's just trying to acquire more names for her list. She's putting Sheriam's feet to the fire, she's putting Liandrin in a position to see if she's lying. This is 100% book accurate motivation to me. She's documenting for her ultimate betrayal of the Dark Lord. I love every minute of it.
I'm wondering how much longer the show is going to play with the notion that any of the Emond's Fielders are going turn out to be bad guys. I sort of hope that similar to the 'who is the Dragon' "mystery" in season 1 that this is a plot point we do away with by the end of this season. It also still drives me nuts when people also refer to LTT as the Dragon Reborn. Rand is the Dragon Reborn because LTT was just the Dragon, was the non-reader audience really not going to get that distinction? If anything I feel like calling them the same thing is more ambiguous and confusing. Oh well.
Anyway, nitpicks aside(as I similarly can't completely turn off my reader brain), this season continues to be a huge improvement over season 1 for me. I'm not sure im quiet as hyped about this one as the more vocal fans across social media are, but that may be due to expectations being set too high by said fans before i got a chance to watch it.
I don't mind the quick knock out, after all, the wonder girls get kidnapped like 15 times in the first three books.
Oh man I loved Perrin's plotline and the two people he meets in town.
I would not rule out the Mat fight scene yet. We haven't been introduced to Gawyn and Galad yet so there is still hope. Plus, even if ends up as a bonus scene or feature, honestly, Rafe would eventually have to cave to show us a scene that is probably one of the top 10 people always talk about in the story. (aside from Epic Major Events)
I actually like the color scheme. After that GOT dark episode, I hate when they do any action when it's Too dark. Also, i always thought of more color with certain factions, especially with regards to the Seanchan and Cairhien.
Verin rocks, always. Also, as always, WTF are they doing with Lan. Srsly...annoying.
Best episode overall. As a book a bookreader, bunch of nitpicks but the only thing I didn't like was Suroth. Not sure if its the aesthetic or the actress or the direction she was given but like you, I did not enjoy her at all as part of the entertainment.
I'm so glad, as a book fan, I'm not the only one who's been able to dial my brain to another turning/mirror dimension route and is able to enjoy the show from that lens and it still being consistent with the actual lore of the books if not specifically book cannon
I'm holding on to that same branch, they MUST give us that iconic Mat scene. Maybe after Falme they might all end up in Camelyn for *insert reason* just so Mat can kick some serious butt.
Brown's are bumbling and overlooked, Verin was always the one that you don't really pay attention to you, not a big deal, a little cartoony but she's on the case, and gives you a few moments that is like, what is her game, what's going on here. I liked her a lot in this.
It has been great following along watching this and watching your videos! Also soooo hyped about the Fringe video. Super underrated show.
Regarding the horn and haven't read the books. Watched it with my wife who has is a reader. I didn't know what the white box was, I felt like I was missing something, the dialogue was quiet and spoken quickly, I turned to my wife at the end asking why do we care about this.
I dont know if anyone else has mentioned it, but Verin lied in this episode. When she spoke to Sheriam, Sheriam was confused about the note that E, N & E had left the tower, but at no point said that she wrote the note, however when Verin is discussing it with Yassica she says outright that "Sheriam remembered making the notation herself". So it appears that Verin's lie may have made it's way into the show in a different form.
And then Verin mentioned compulsion and I think that is what happened.
23:52That's not just you. It's their color grading. Without going into detail (I'll assume most people on youtube know color grading/image manipulation), they just do too many masks and edge hardening/sharpening effects. Every character has a clear halo around them, especially in dark scenes, or when the character has similar colors to the environment. They are trying to pop them out, so to speak, but it just ends up looking too fake. In color grading, less is usually more, and doing too much might lend you the "I bought a DSLR and downloaded DaVinci so now I'm a filmmaker" vibes we often see on UA-cam (I'm no exception).
But they are filmmakers.
Yes, it's better. Season 1 was so bad I wasn't even going to begin watching Season 2. I've been pleasantly surprised after giving it a chance. There's hope.
@daniel thank you for the great review!
My only disagreement is that I think, during the scene where Avi explained Ji'e'toh to Perrin, that DID feel very much like the Avi who became one of my fav 3 characters in the whole series. I especially like Avi when I realized she is supposed to be Gaul and Avi rolled into one
Hold out hope! Mat will get his scene with the quarterstaff scene - I think it's coming in Season 3!
I was surprisingly pleased with his episode - the pieces of this turning of the wheel are falling into place.
Curious why Avi’s personality feels different? I think they’re nailing her! The mix of deadpan and cheeky, her snort of laughter when Perrin tries to “protect her,” scoffing that he doesn’t understand toh, Maidening among the best of them…
One huge wasted opportunity was that Perrin and Aviendha camped near big ol lake and she wasnt affected by so much water at all. They could use it to bring more info about Aiels who are basicly Jordans fremens. Also why dont just take 4th horse as spare in case if one gets lame in dark ffs, she kills horse offhand but couldnt spare Lanfear few extra stabs in eyes?
Well, Aviendha knows that this is the wetlands. So she knows there is a lot of water here. And I guess she knows how to hide her feelings. So it's not a given that she should be freaked out by the amount of water.
However, I agree with you. It would have made the story better if she HAD been (at least a little) freaked out by the amount of water. So this could have told the audience that there REALLY isn't very much water in the Wastes.
@@Tjalve70 Exactly, some small reaction would go into character building.
@@toblakai5543I really do want to see an Aiel freak out while wading a river, though. Maybe Aviendha, or maybe someone else. But the feeling of the water tugging at you, trying to push you over, and maybe losing your footing and falling down.... That must be a frightening feeling for an Aiel.
Best thumbnail to date! Well done, sir, well done.