Can you just imagine if this series had been done with the budget and special effects that are used today? Something tells me it would have been something special
With the producers mindset at the time, I doubt much, story content wise, would have changed... but the visual effects guys sure would have been relieved!! It was a near-impossible, tedious, time-consuming, & hard workload to get done back in the day with the tech & time constraints they had to do it in.
Some of these shots look so good because they used models, not CGI. Nothing wrong with CGI tho if you use it correctly. I dont like todays approach in Picard and Discovery with the CGI effects. They feel really overdone, cheap and the universe is so colourful in them...
@@astrotrek3534 I don't know what you're talking about. Disco & Picard look awesome and are FAR from cheap. They hired some of the best to do their effects. I have never seen one effect that took me out of the moment because it didn't look realistic. Then again, I guess you're wealthy & spending MILLIONS of dollars every week is "cheap" to you. It's the STORY, PLOT, & a few aesthetic choices that leave much to be desired.
@@Gentleman...Driver The Dominion War utilized a LOT of CGI or they wouldn't be able to do the war arc. They tried a "war" with ONE EPISDODE ("Way of the Warrior" in which they did the old motion-control method with lots of models (even off-the shelf), but realized if they were going to do that for an entire story they couldn't keep that up so they went with a LOT of CGI, which looked great. I for one never even knew the Defiant was later a cgi model. Other than TNG not reaching the sales quota they expected, for years people claimed DS9 couldn't be upgraded to HD because of so much of the CGI work they did in later years - but that proved false as the artists kept copies of the assets on their personal drives & all they have to do is press "render" to give the studio the cgi in HD resolution. Now it's back to it won't make back the money" excuse.
I think the problem I have with most of these Star Trek space battles is that they mostly take place in black empty space so it creates this kind of fishbowl effect where I don't know where the ships are in relation to one another. Most of the maneuvers I see seem to be pointless and the ships don't seem to have any weight to them. Which side is winning? I don't know.
My pet hate in Star Trek battles 0:07 and 0:49 evasive manoeuvres? Naa let's just sit here and get pummelled. Warbird can't even be bothered to fire any of it's weapons 🤦🏻♂️ Maybe their first day on the job? (and last)
Crazy how fast the Breen adapted to Defiant. Defiant took out the first Breen ship but the second even after being damaged managed to cripple the Defiant with its energy weapon and once power was off, the ship was dead basically. Now if we take one Borg Cube, and even if the Federation ships join together, The Borg would still win. The Borg would even solve the Ketracel-white problem. Believe me, the Borg will assimilate everyone.
The only shields i saw were on the Defiant and that moon asteroid deal... Everything else was just getting blown through like a BB gun shooting an aluminum can.
All those Miranda and Excelsior class ships flying around; but not one Constitution class (if someone did spot one let me know!). Considering the heavy losses being taken in the dominion war, there would be a case for re-activating as many ships as possible, even the older classes.
Not very likely, Mirandas were introduced 20 years after the Connies and the Excelsiors 40 years respectively. If any Connies exist in the 24th century, they were very few and very rare. Only one was active enough to fight in the Battle of Wolf 259 but was ultimately destroyed.
@@elonwong Well, to be fair if they had kept them around they would have been refit with more modern tech. The Miranda's and Excelsior's in the fleet are much more tech advanced then they where when they where first made. Refitted and newer ones made with better tech. But with Excelsior's in the fleet there was little sense to maintain Constitutions, so most where all just mothballed in favour of the Excelsior class as more and more where build and commissioned. Excelsior's and Mirandas both also don't have phaser strips. Those became a thing with the Ambassador class era and beyond. Phaser strips aren't particularly stronger then cannons. They are just more spread out and allow many smaller emitters vs one big cannon that can be shot at.
ILM had nothing to do with DS9 other than the original 1993 opening sequence. CGI from the last two seasons were mostly produced by companies such as Foundation Imaging (Voyager; Babylon 5) or Digital Muse.
Romulan Warbirds are the most beautiful ships, even better looking than the boring Starfleet who have not introduced a new, powerful battleship for decades. Same old, same old. Boring.
Shame skills like this are overlooked by the kidnappers who have got our beloved Star Trek hostage......STD and Picard are insults to Gene and the real fans....
@@rarewolf4913 disappointed I would think mate....DS9 went to far for flashy battles and hollywood excitement...gene loved stories planets explorations....I liked the sisko vs ducat that was spot on...
@@rarewolf4913 Depends on which Gene Roddenberry you're referring to. There were 2 completely different ones: the TOS era Gene & the TNG & later Gene... but keep in mind, the TNG era one ALSO surprised fellow producers & writers by either changing his mind or coming up with completely new ideas on the spot regardless if it contradicted already established canon.... and that's not even taking into consideration his hack lawyer who wanted to be a writer that was turning great scripts into garbage or Gene's rapidly declining health. BUT,... the only OFFICIAL word on Dominion war storyline from Roddenberry camp came directly from Majel Barrett who decreed - by the time of his death at least, Gene would NOT approve of a drawn out war story. Although, in TOS times, had he had the budget & support, THAT Gene would have no problem with the arc because it MOSTLY dealt with how HUMANS react under those conditions with the space battles just being icing on the cake for added entertainment value. In fact, in TOS times, had Gene made these stories, there would undoubtedly have been at least 2 or 3 episodes where a navigator-of-the-week, a human guest star, a Starfleet commodore, a rogue Starfleet captain or whoever else just happens to crack under the pressure & go absolutely INSANE since they believed humans weren't meant to be in space in the first place and would sabotage that week's mission during the war... well, depending on the week, but, those stories constantly snuck in on TOS. Sigh Amazing how fans have selective memories or selectively pick & choose which Roddenberry interviews (which he mostly did for PR or flat out lied in that moment & didn't really believe) should be the "true vision" of Roddenberry. he had IDEAS, which varied month to month, not one big vision (in which had he, he'd explain how human evolved thousands of years within 79 years between TOS & TNG to fit his new look at the "perfect" Starfleet & humanity) Basically, it's just a TV show with uneven continuity (that started wavering way before Berman). There are no answers to your inquiry, not even from Gene had he still been alive. And even then, he'd change his answer next week for a new sound bite.,, that or he'd hear something form someone else & steal the quote as his own (yeah, he wasn't a very nice businessman, ask Alexander Courage among others).
@@MarvinWestmaas Apparently there is nothing to redeem. 1. Patrick Stewart has said he would not have done the series if it didn't turn out the way it did (the aired version, since the pitch that convinced him to sign was NOTHING like the series they ended up writing) because... 2. it was an natural progression of the story, not a retelling of the same tales or formats... (which some fans would then complain about as well! sigh)
There is nothing more annoying than seeing even Excelsior class star ships in series Federation fleets when in reality the oldest by Next Gen we wouldn't see anything older than the Ambassador, Rigel, and the Korolev classes!
The Federation had a habit of calling older ships back from exploratory missions for combat duty. After all, that's why so many Oberth class science vessels end up exploding. All of those older ships would have seen retrofits at some point though, making them far stronger than they were when first sent out from drydock. The glaring omission here would be that the Enterprise was absent, by this point, the E was active. But instead of calling them in, they called in older vessels and sent the enterprise on diplomatic missions to garner more allies. Which seems more the job of those older vessels to me.
@@tessajalloh3914 It would make sense them sending the -E for diplomatic service/recuiting allies, being the flagship, but it is definetly more tactically useful as a fighting ship at that point.
The excelsior was obviously heavily refitted. I'm assuming they just liked the model or had a good one kicking around or something. Personally I feel like the spaceframe wouldn't even really matter. If you give an excelsior the warpcore and shield generators of a galaxy class, what's the difference?
@@hansolo631 There wouldn't be any difference. Replicators, transporters and adaptive algorithms would make upgrading of any old ships with contemporary technology very easy and simple (automation would create new ships excessively fast too). In fact, it probably explains why those designs lived through the late 24th century and beyond. The Constitution class was apparently retired before the technology matured enough to upgrade these older ships continuously... seeing how it was already in heavy/long use before the Excelsior and Miranda classes came onto the scene. I also suspect that if these designs survived past early/mid 25th century, then Starfleet would eventually upgrade their external designs too in order to keep them in service. I suspect that old designs of those classes (or any class for that matter) would be in production for about 10 years. After that, no new classes of that design would be constructed, but any SURVIVING ships would be slated for regular upgrades. As for seeing a lot of mirandas exploding... meh, same thing happened to the Jem Hadar fighters. It doesn't mean Mirandas of the late 24th century were weak... the VFX department simply chose to show those ships exploding
@@tessajalloh3914 I really didn't see many Oberth ships exploding, but I DID see quite a few Mirandas being gutted and lanced to oblivion here in this clip.
The screenwriters just never bothered to develop actual believable battle tactics utilizing warships and weaponries. It just made everything in an universe that was supposed to be believable, amateurish and childish, as if the warships were being controlled by bunch 10-20 year old players on StarTrek online. - For example, large warships saving their phasers and torpedoes by using them sparingly every 5 seconds...whereas in any open battles, preparations for continuous full spread of both should've been programmed to create the maximum damage in the opening shot. Then you have smaller warships charging toward a stationary platform and into the path of polaron beams and torpedoes from the larger warships behind, Starfleet ships criss-crossing each other, dang near crash into one another and firing all over the place, charging against enemy orbital defense platforms when simply, modified, remotely guidable missiles/torpedoes can be fired from a farther, safe distance, etc. - In a bit of a real life attack on DS9, before it starts, the Jem'hadar will already have Changeling spies to get intel on all current defense and capabilities of the station. Once it is calculated on how much and long the fire power is needed to destroy the station, only a selected few capital ships surrounded by medium size support ships will be required with the proper the firing solution on the location of the station's weak points and distance, and warp in at the right locations and immediately open fire to either disable or destroy the station. The battle would've ended within seconds. - IF there was a battle with both sides lining up their battleship and warships, both sides would have cared less about depth than how far they can spread out their assets in a vertical plane in space (rather than line as are naval battles on the ocean), because the opening shot depends on how many battleships can all fire all their weapons at the same time. Additional pincer or envelopment movements from other groups originally outside of the battle can warp into finish off the rest of the damaged enemy vessels. - In the end and in real life future, I do not believe that space battles will be fought with spaceships like these, because the concept of having space vessels attacking one another is derived from our understanding of current and older concepts of naval battles on the ocean. With the advent use of AI and remote-controlled/automated weapon systems (especially with cloaking technology), just having battleships alone under human control and missing shots is completely an obsolete idea. Torpedoes with perfectly calculated yield can be materialized, sent in under cloak, under a certain warp for kinetic impact alone will make any ships, stations, platforms as simple cannon fodder - There is nowhere safe for any of those things to exist in a real future world and probably a reason why we haven't yet found immense amounts of any large artificial space structures within our vicinities in real life either.
The Cardassian Vessels/Battle Cruisers are the Most Weakest amongst dem freighters..just a full spread sensor aray laser beam..it goes up in flames..pathetic
Damnit, to HELL! These battles are what the USS PROMETHEUS, was BRED for! By the Lords Of Kobol! The saying, "War, Is HELL", seems really 'ANEMIC', when you witness the staggeringly horrific destruction, that these "Cosmic powers", are able to unleash upon each other!
It still annoys me that almost every federation ship in this series was destroyed/damaged as if it didn't have deflector shields. Yet the defiant can take several dozen hits and be fine.
@@jasongooden917 Wrong. The Federation adapted its shields to stop Dominion weapons from going through when they captured the Jem Hadar fighter before the war started. simple reason behind no shields on other ships: VFX error (too time consuming to render shield effects).
@Time Traveller Starfleet wouldn't be that stupid. They upgraded the ships before the war began. Remember the USS Lakota? 80 year old Excelsior class upgraded (without ablative armor) to match the USS Defiant (which had ablative armor). Sending ships into battle without shields would be preposterous seeing how the Federation captured a Jem Hadar ship before the war and managed to adapt their shields to stop Dominion weapons (actually, the USS Defiants shields DID flare up in its very first combat against the Jem Hadar ships... and that was before they captured the Jem Hadar ship). Also, for an organization as widespread and advanced as the Federaiton, production of new ships with automation would be a breeze. Someone clearly never thought things through.
What always annoyed me about these battles was how they were actually set up. Space is THREE DIMENSIONAL, yet all these ships are in perfect formation like they are sailing on the ocean. Then you have the defiant cruising around like a fighter jet, THREE DIMENSIONALLY. Also, why are they all grouped up? They have weapons ranges in excess of 350,000 km’s. So why bunch them up? Also why is the battle happening to begin with? As stated spaces is THEEE DIMENSIONAL. Couldn’t they just , I don’t know…. Go around?
Pretty sure the Dominion War finished off all the Mirandas and Excelsiors. The Galaxy class really kicked ass though--I don't think they lost one on screen after the Odyssey.
There was actually one Galaxy class that was nearly destroyed when the allied fleet approached the Chin'toka system. One of the orbital platforms disintegrated a part of it's lower secondary hull.
@@KnowTrentTimoy The person is right - There were no galaxy losses on screen after the Odyssey. What is the point of your useless reply? The Venture (the ship you're on about) was not destroyed - not even nearly. It got hit once, that's it.
But what a testament to the old school workhorses of the Federation fleet... ship designs that were so tough they survived (of course with updates and refits) from the era of Kirk to the era of Picard and Sisko! The tonal shift from massive cruisers / warships like the Galaxy, Sovereign, Vor'Cha, Negh'Var, D'Deridex, etc. seemed borne from the Dominion War. After that the major races seemed to go with smaller, faster, more manoeuvrable and slimmer ships, with a lot more firepower packed in. I'd guess for a sleeker silhouette being harder to hit, all while able to do massive damage.
It absolutely did. Everything from 9:45 to 11:45 is footage from the finale. Remember that the episode also recycled a LOT of footage from past DS9 battles and even the Klingon explosion from 1991's Undiscovered Country.
@@dudujencarelli There was no reuse from Star Trek 6 in any DS9 episode. You're thinking of the hall explosions used in Generations, which re-used TUCs main explosion. DS9 re-used some of the hall / interior explosions.
@@PlanetGoddess It never happened because those aren't Klingons and the technology levels on STD are way to advanced, it's a shameless ploy to destroy decades of established lore..
Which doesn't make sense really. They were tough as hell back in the day, had that big old torpedo launcher up top.. Basically as heavily armed as the Constitution class as of the wrath of khan era... Surely they'd have been upgraded with modern weapons and shields and been extremely capable in the escort or destroyer role from a naval point of view. Just look at the Lakota, the excelsior that's upgraded with big old modern phasers and quantum torpedoes.. That thing was a match for the defiant.. The Reliant basically had pulse phasers in the movie.. Put modern defiant type pulse phasers on it.. It could probably carry bigger ones even since the defiant is so small, and then have quantum torpedoes firing out of that rollbar launcher... I know it was because of the show budget etc... But in reality the Miranda should have been an ass kicker.. They did her dirty.
Yeah, they used fighters to lure the Cardassians out of their formation with the Dominion ships, so the Federation fleet has a chance of slipping through to DS9. I dont know much about space, but I always thought it was quite big and 3-dimensional, so they could simply fly "over" or "under" the blockade?
@@Gentleman...Driver The idea of a blockade here does make sense because it isn't so much about physically blocking passage (like blocking a narrow river crossing) but forcing the opponent to split forces; if you do that, they will dispatch ships at a 3:1 ratio to hunt down any ship that attempts to bypass the main force. This would be suicidal. Thus, you're forced to keep your ships in formation and play the blockade runner game.
Its very common in Sci-Fi shows to have sound in space. Its not realistic, but the ships behave and fly also like airplanes in the vacuum. So... Battlestar Galactica did it the right way. ;-)
8:15 so why did they not just sit at VERY long range and lob torps at the generator? You only need to get them started and inertia would do the rest. Why close to spitting distance and lose ships when you didn't have too?
It's never easy watching Romulan, Klingon or Federations ships being destroyed. Especially by those orbital defense platforms.
The Defiant was really made for battle..but broke my heart when it got vapourized..
@10:45, let us all appreciate the fact that the Cardassian Galor-Class cruisers sound an awful lot like WW2 bombers.
…they do?
Good job the station was protected with plot armour, as from the looks of the final scene it was made entirely of explodium!
Can you just imagine if this series had been done with the budget and special effects that are used today? Something tells me it would have been something special
With the producers mindset at the time, I doubt much, story content wise, would have changed... but the visual effects guys sure would have been relieved!! It was a near-impossible, tedious, time-consuming, & hard workload to get done back in the day with the tech & time constraints they had to do it in.
Some of these shots look so good because they used models, not CGI. Nothing wrong with CGI tho if you use it correctly. I dont like todays approach in Picard and Discovery with the CGI effects. They feel really overdone, cheap and the universe is so colourful in them...
@@Gentleman...Driver Look up fan animations here on youtube, CG can look great when it's done properly, STD and Picard are just cheap and poorly made.
@@astrotrek3534 I don't know what you're talking about. Disco & Picard look awesome and are FAR from cheap. They hired some of the best to do their effects. I have never seen one effect that took me out of the moment because it didn't look realistic.
Then again, I guess you're wealthy & spending MILLIONS of dollars every week is "cheap" to you.
It's the STORY, PLOT, & a few aesthetic choices that leave much to be desired.
@@Gentleman...Driver The Dominion War utilized a LOT of CGI or they wouldn't be able to do the war arc. They tried a "war" with ONE EPISDODE ("Way of the Warrior" in which they did the old motion-control method with lots of models (even off-the shelf), but realized if they were going to do that for an entire story they couldn't keep that up so they went with a LOT of CGI, which looked great. I for one never even knew the Defiant was later a cgi model.
Other than TNG not reaching the sales quota they expected, for years people claimed DS9 couldn't be upgraded to HD because of so much of the CGI work they did in later years - but that proved false as the artists kept copies of the assets on their personal drives & all they have to do is press "render" to give the studio the cgi in HD resolution. Now it's back to it won't make back the money" excuse.
I think the problem I have with most of these Star Trek space battles is that they mostly take place in black empty space so it creates this kind of fishbowl effect where I don't know where the ships are in relation to one another. Most of the maneuvers I see seem to be pointless and the ships don't seem to have any weight to them. Which side is winning? I don't know.
Rip Gene Roddenberry
My pet hate in Star Trek battles 0:07 and 0:49 evasive manoeuvres? Naa let's just sit here and get pummelled. Warbird can't even be bothered to fire any of it's weapons 🤦🏻♂️ Maybe their first day on the job? (and last)
Engaging in evasive maneuvers makes no sense when dealing with a ship that's more maneuverable.
Crazy how fast the Breen adapted to Defiant. Defiant took out the first Breen ship but the second even after being damaged managed to cripple the Defiant with its energy weapon and once power was off, the ship was dead basically. Now if we take one Borg Cube, and even if the Federation ships join together, The Borg would still win. The Borg would even solve the Ketracel-white problem. Believe me, the Borg will assimilate everyone.
The only shields i saw were on the Defiant and that moon asteroid deal... Everything else was just getting blown through like a BB gun shooting an aluminum can.
The poor Miranda class, the “red shirt” of star fleet ships
All those Miranda and Excelsior class ships flying around; but not one Constitution class (if someone did spot one let me know!). Considering the heavy losses being taken in the dominion war, there would be a case for re-activating as many ships as possible, even the older classes.
Not very likely, Mirandas were introduced 20 years after the Connies and the Excelsiors 40 years respectively. If any Connies exist in the 24th century, they were very few and very rare. Only one was active enough to fight in the Battle of Wolf 259 but was ultimately destroyed.
I don’t think connies hav phaser strips
plus all other techs onboard that’s pretty outdated for the 24th century
@@elonwong Well, to be fair if they had kept them around they would have been refit with more modern tech. The Miranda's and Excelsior's in the fleet are much more tech advanced then they where when they where first made. Refitted and newer ones made with better tech. But with Excelsior's in the fleet there was little sense to maintain Constitutions, so most where all just mothballed in favour of the Excelsior class as more and more where build and commissioned. Excelsior's and Mirandas both also don't have phaser strips. Those became a thing with the Ambassador class era and beyond. Phaser strips aren't particularly stronger then cannons. They are just more spread out and allow many smaller emitters vs one big cannon that can be shot at.
This was a Coolest Show my friends. Thanks.
ILM was fantastic producer of spacebattles.
ILM had nothing to do with DS9 other than the original 1993 opening sequence. CGI from the last two seasons were mostly produced by companies such as Foundation Imaging (Voyager; Babylon 5) or Digital Muse.
4:38 What are these scenes from? I don't remember these.
Romulan Warbirds are the most beautiful ships, even better looking than the boring Starfleet who have not introduced a new, powerful battleship for decades. Same old, same old. Boring.
the rom warbird was older than the galaxy class lol
Great job man! Really enjoyed
What's our status ? Shall we return fire ? What's our status ? Shall we return fire ? Kaboom
We need to remaster this clip in 4K!
Shame skills like this are overlooked by the kidnappers who have got our beloved Star Trek hostage......STD and Picard are insults to Gene and the real fans....
I often wonder what Gene would make of the Defiant andall out war with the Dominion.
@@rarewolf4913 disappointed I would think mate....DS9 went to far for flashy battles and hollywood excitement...gene loved stories planets explorations....I liked the sisko vs ducat that was spot on...
Picard can still redeem itself, and the premise of the series is while 'not trek like' in being dark and gloomy, something I can get into.
@@rarewolf4913 Depends on which Gene Roddenberry you're referring to. There were 2 completely different ones: the TOS era Gene & the TNG & later Gene... but keep in mind, the TNG era one ALSO surprised fellow producers & writers by either changing his mind or coming up with completely new ideas on the spot regardless if it contradicted already established canon.... and that's not even taking into consideration his hack lawyer who wanted to be a writer that was turning great scripts into garbage or Gene's rapidly declining health.
BUT,... the only OFFICIAL word on Dominion war storyline from Roddenberry camp came directly from Majel Barrett who decreed - by the time of his death at least, Gene would NOT approve of a drawn out war story.
Although, in TOS times, had he had the budget & support, THAT Gene would have no problem with the arc because it MOSTLY dealt with how HUMANS react under those conditions with the space battles just being icing on the cake for added entertainment value.
In fact, in TOS times, had Gene made these stories, there would undoubtedly have been at least 2 or 3 episodes where a navigator-of-the-week, a human guest star, a Starfleet commodore, a rogue Starfleet captain or whoever else just happens to crack under the pressure & go absolutely INSANE since they believed humans weren't meant to be in space in the first place and would sabotage that week's mission during the war... well, depending on the week, but, those stories constantly snuck in on TOS.
Sigh
Amazing how fans have selective memories or selectively pick & choose which Roddenberry interviews (which he mostly did for PR or flat out lied in that moment & didn't really believe) should be the "true vision" of Roddenberry.
he had IDEAS, which varied month to month, not one big vision (in which had he, he'd explain how human evolved thousands of years within 79 years between TOS & TNG to fit his new look at the "perfect" Starfleet & humanity)
Basically, it's just a TV show with uneven continuity (that started wavering way before Berman). There are no answers to your inquiry, not even from Gene had he still been alive. And even then, he'd change his answer next week for a new sound bite.,, that or he'd hear something form someone else & steal the quote as his own (yeah, he wasn't a very nice businessman, ask Alexander Courage among others).
@@MarvinWestmaas Apparently there is nothing to redeem.
1. Patrick Stewart has said he would not have done the series if it didn't turn out the way it did (the aired version, since the pitch that convinced him to sign was NOTHING like the series they ended up writing) because...
2. it was an natural progression of the story, not a retelling of the same tales or formats... (which some fans would then complain about as well! sigh)
There is nothing more annoying than seeing even Excelsior class star ships in series Federation fleets when in reality the oldest by Next Gen we wouldn't see anything older than the Ambassador, Rigel, and the Korolev classes!
The Federation had a habit of calling older ships back from exploratory missions for combat duty. After all, that's why so many Oberth class science vessels end up exploding.
All of those older ships would have seen retrofits at some point though, making them far stronger than they were when first sent out from drydock.
The glaring omission here would be that the Enterprise was absent, by this point, the E was active. But instead of calling them in, they called in older vessels and sent the enterprise on diplomatic missions to garner more allies. Which seems more the job of those older vessels to me.
@@tessajalloh3914 It would make sense them sending the -E for diplomatic service/recuiting allies, being the flagship, but it is definetly more tactically useful as a fighting ship at that point.
The excelsior was obviously heavily refitted. I'm assuming they just liked the model or had a good one kicking around or something. Personally I feel like the spaceframe wouldn't even really matter. If you give an excelsior the warpcore and shield generators of a galaxy class, what's the difference?
@@hansolo631 There wouldn't be any difference.
Replicators, transporters and adaptive algorithms would make upgrading of any old ships with contemporary technology very easy and simple (automation would create new ships excessively fast too).
In fact, it probably explains why those designs lived through the late 24th century and beyond.
The Constitution class was apparently retired before the technology matured enough to upgrade these older ships continuously... seeing how it was already in heavy/long use before the Excelsior and Miranda classes came onto the scene.
I also suspect that if these designs survived past early/mid 25th century, then Starfleet would eventually upgrade their external designs too in order to keep them in service.
I suspect that old designs of those classes (or any class for that matter) would be in production for about 10 years. After that, no new classes of that design would be constructed, but any SURVIVING ships would be slated for regular upgrades.
As for seeing a lot of mirandas exploding... meh, same thing happened to the Jem Hadar fighters. It doesn't mean Mirandas of the late 24th century were weak... the VFX department simply chose to show those ships exploding
@@tessajalloh3914
I really didn't see many Oberth ships exploding, but I DID see quite a few Mirandas being gutted and lanced to oblivion here in this clip.
7:57 The way those Jem Hadar fighters were doing coordinated suicide ramming runs on the Klingons was pretty awesome
The screenwriters just never bothered to develop actual believable battle tactics utilizing warships and weaponries. It just made everything in an universe that was supposed to be believable, amateurish and childish, as if the warships were being controlled by bunch 10-20 year old players on StarTrek online.
- For example, large warships saving their phasers and torpedoes by using them sparingly every 5 seconds...whereas in any open battles, preparations for continuous full spread of both should've been programmed to create the maximum damage in the opening shot. Then you have smaller warships charging toward a stationary platform and into the path of polaron beams and torpedoes from the larger warships behind, Starfleet ships criss-crossing each other, dang near crash into one another and firing all over the place, charging against enemy orbital defense platforms when simply, modified, remotely guidable missiles/torpedoes can be fired from a farther, safe distance, etc.
- In a bit of a real life attack on DS9, before it starts, the Jem'hadar will already have Changeling spies to get intel on all current defense and capabilities of the station. Once it is calculated on how much and long the fire power is needed to destroy the station, only a selected few capital ships surrounded by medium size support ships will be required with the proper the firing solution on the location of the station's weak points and distance, and warp in at the right locations and immediately open fire to either disable or destroy the station. The battle would've ended within seconds.
- IF there was a battle with both sides lining up their battleship and warships, both sides would have cared less about depth than how far they can spread out their assets in a vertical plane in space (rather than line as are naval battles on the ocean), because the opening shot depends on how many battleships can all fire all their weapons at the same time. Additional pincer or envelopment movements from other groups originally outside of the battle can warp into finish off the rest of the damaged enemy vessels.
- In the end and in real life future, I do not believe that space battles will be fought with spaceships like these, because the concept of having space vessels attacking one another is derived from our understanding of current and older concepts of naval battles on the ocean. With the advent use of AI and remote-controlled/automated weapon systems (especially with cloaking technology), just having battleships alone under human control and missing shots is completely an obsolete idea. Torpedoes with perfectly calculated yield can be materialized, sent in under cloak, under a certain warp for kinetic impact alone will make any ships, stations, platforms as simple cannon fodder - There is nowhere safe for any of those things to exist in a real future world and probably a reason why we haven't yet found immense amounts of any large artificial space structures within our vicinities in real life either.
The Cardassian Vessels/Battle Cruisers are the Most Weakest amongst dem freighters..just a full spread sensor aray laser beam..it goes up in flames..pathetic
Damnit, to HELL! These battles are what the USS PROMETHEUS, was BRED for!
By the Lords Of Kobol! The saying, "War, Is HELL", seems really 'ANEMIC', when you witness the staggeringly horrific destruction, that these "Cosmic powers", are able to unleash upon each other!
Model makers: so how many are we losing.
Director: all of them.
Model makers: c###
It still annoys me that almost every federation ship in this series was destroyed/damaged as if it didn't have deflector shields. Yet the defiant can take several dozen hits and be fine.
ablative armor and siskos pimp hand
They forgot to raise the shields in all this excitement.
It's also worth noting that Jem'Hadar ships are ridiculously easy to destroy most of the time.
@@jasongooden917 Wrong.
The Federation adapted its shields to stop Dominion weapons from going through when they captured the Jem Hadar fighter before the war started.
simple reason behind no shields on other ships: VFX error (too time consuming to render shield effects).
@Time Traveller Starfleet wouldn't be that stupid.
They upgraded the ships before the war began. Remember the USS Lakota? 80 year old Excelsior class upgraded (without ablative armor) to match the USS Defiant (which had ablative armor).
Sending ships into battle without shields would be preposterous seeing how the Federation captured a Jem Hadar ship before the war and managed to adapt their shields to stop Dominion weapons (actually, the USS Defiants shields DID flare up in its very first combat against the Jem Hadar ships... and that was before they captured the Jem Hadar ship).
Also, for an organization as widespread and advanced as the Federaiton, production of new ships with automation would be a breeze.
Someone clearly never thought things through.
You missed odo take out a jemhadr fighter, damage one and live
It's in part 1 of this video compilation. Near the end.
5:50 I loved how the Federation attack fighters flew into battle in formation
The Dominion was fierce on the battlefield and on vessels
2:36 Imagine if the Supremacy had shields up lol
did DS9 forget what shields are??
Bad Ass Klingons.
Mahk-cha!!!
What always annoyed me about these battles was how they were actually set up. Space is THREE DIMENSIONAL, yet all these ships are in perfect formation like they are sailing on the ocean. Then you have the defiant cruising around like a fighter jet, THREE DIMENSIONALLY. Also, why are they all grouped up? They have weapons ranges in excess of 350,000 km’s. So why bunch them up? Also why is the battle happening to begin with? As stated spaces is THEEE DIMENSIONAL. Couldn’t they just , I don’t know…. Go around?
Pretty sure the Dominion War finished off all the Mirandas and Excelsiors. The Galaxy class really kicked ass though--I don't think they lost one on screen after the Odyssey.
There was actually one Galaxy class that was nearly destroyed when the allied fleet approached the Chin'toka system. One of the orbital platforms disintegrated a part of it's lower secondary hull.
@@KnowTrentTimoy The person is right - There were no galaxy losses on screen after the Odyssey. What is the point of your useless reply? The Venture (the ship you're on about) was not destroyed - not even nearly. It got hit once, that's it.
But what a testament to the old school workhorses of the Federation fleet... ship designs that were so tough they survived (of course with updates and refits) from the era of Kirk to the era of Picard and Sisko!
The tonal shift from massive cruisers / warships like the Galaxy, Sovereign, Vor'Cha, Negh'Var, D'Deridex, etc. seemed borne from the Dominion War. After that the major races seemed to go with smaller, faster, more manoeuvrable and slimmer ships, with a lot more firepower packed in. I'd guess for a sleeker silhouette being harder to hit, all while able to do massive damage.
How badly did DS9 herself take damage?
Okแค่นี้ก่อน.บ่ายที่ประทับพระเจ้าทุกองค์.อาเมน
480p no thanks.
If Voyager were in the Alpha quadrant at the start of the Dominion war would she have made a difference at all?
Loved watching the ship battles and the bridge commanders giving orders
สร้างมิติศัตรูมองไม่เห็น.เชน.เริ้ม
Nobody has shields I guess it's in the space war book
I am stilk wondering why there were never shown any ambassador class vessels in battle...they surely were better than the excelsiors
Will there be a Part III? I noticed that this compilation did not cover the final episode.
It absolutely did. Everything from 9:45 to 11:45 is footage from the finale. Remember that the episode also recycled a LOT of footage from past DS9 battles and even the Klingon explosion from 1991's Undiscovered Country.
It did cover the final episode.
@@dudujencarelli There was no reuse from Star Trek 6 in any DS9 episode. You're thinking of the hall explosions used in Generations, which re-used TUCs main explosion. DS9 re-used some of the hall / interior explosions.
Best sci-fi series ever, after Babylon 5.
Yep so much better than that Battle at the Binary Stars garbage.
@@stevefelten1197 ?
@@PlanetGoddess It never happened because those aren't Klingons and the technology levels on STD are way to advanced, it's a shameless ploy to destroy decades of established lore..
@@stevefelten1197 ok and
What the hell was that last clip?
hhhhhhuuuu
Uhh... what just happened? 🤣
The Mirandas were just cannon fodder.
Which doesn't make sense really. They were tough as hell back in the day, had that big old torpedo launcher up top.. Basically as heavily armed as the Constitution class as of the wrath of khan era... Surely they'd have been upgraded with modern weapons and shields and been extremely capable in the escort or destroyer role from a naval point of view. Just look at the Lakota, the excelsior that's upgraded with big old modern phasers and quantum torpedoes.. That thing was a match for the defiant.. The Reliant basically had pulse phasers in the movie.. Put modern defiant type pulse phasers on it.. It could probably carry bigger ones even since the defiant is so small, and then have quantum torpedoes firing out of that rollbar launcher... I know it was because of the show budget etc... But in reality the Miranda should have been an ass kicker.. They did her dirty.
5:58 We're going in, we're going in full throttle. That ought to keep those fighters off our back.
Yeah, they used fighters to lure the Cardassians out of their formation with the Dominion ships, so the Federation fleet has a chance of slipping through to DS9. I dont know much about space, but I always thought it was quite big and 3-dimensional, so they could simply fly "over" or "under" the blockade?
@@Gentleman...Driver The idea of a blockade here does make sense because it isn't so much about physically blocking passage (like blocking a narrow river crossing) but forcing the opponent to split forces; if you do that, they will dispatch ships at a 3:1 ratio to hunt down any ship that attempts to bypass the main force. This would be suicidal. Thus, you're forced to keep your ships in formation and play the blockade runner game.
A problem with the weapons or explosions or engines for that matter is that there are no sound due to the vacuum of space.
Its very common in Sci-Fi shows to have sound in space. Its not realistic, but the ships behave and fly also like airplanes in the vacuum. So...
Battlestar Galactica did it the right way. ;-)
its also very boring
@@Gentleman...Driver Babylon 5 is another that did it very well. The sound thing is still wrong, but every Sci-Fi IP does that.
Yep, it never technically happened..
8:15 so why did they not just sit at VERY long range and lob torps at the generator? You only need to get them started and inertia would do the rest. Why close to spitting distance and lose ships when you didn't have too?