Since some people got the wrong idea from AxisKronos' response to my "Is mining gold worth it" video(we do not have beef), and my video could've been clearer in the first place, here's a long discussion we had going over stuff relating to gold value, grind, progression etc. This probably won't make a lot of sense unless you watch AxisKronos' video that this is a followup to: ua-cam.com/video/1kXQVhdWTHQ/v-deo.html
Something commonly missing from this convo is that not everyone spams missions back to back to back like an xp speedrunner would. Some people take time between missions to drink, screw around, wait for the rollover to see what alerts there are, wait for their friends, etc. Some people may decide to run two missions before bed. Some people just want to do their assignment and then log off. In all of these cases, the benefit of going 1 minute faster due to skipping gold is completely nullified, other than just going faster in that mission to potentially avoid another wave. For these people, mining gold may often increase the amount of money AND xp they make in a period of play.
@@sauceinmyface9302 they could just not play the game if they want "efficient sleep". But noone is optimizing their life like that. They have 1 hour before bed and skipping gold would never allow them to fit another mission
@@choty7066 How long do you think most missions are? Because I play DRG a lot before leaving to do irl things and one hour is usually enough for two missions (including longer ones like refinery with bad spawns) and I'll still end up with enough time to check my gear, customize my build a bit, etc. Some missions could even be finished in less than 15 minutes like point extraction.
@@choty7066 It might not be their goal to skip gold so they get more "efficient sleep" (lol) but it is worth considering that would be atleast a marginal benefit to their sleep in so far as that skipping gold would reduce the amount of time they are spending in the specific amount of missions they are going to do before bed.
The way I see it, Gold should be changed to be much more valuable but rarer in turn, that way it would both save more time by not having to mine it as much while also being more rewarding. Because I feel like if you're creating a situation where players are actively choosing to skip gold in the first place then it's failing it's purpose. In the game about mining stuff, players shouldn't be told not to mine stuff.
Maybe gold just isn't that worth it though? It's the future after all. We don't know hardly anything about the economy of this universe besides us mining for a profit.
Honestly, considering it's so common that gold is just everywhere, and that there is a way to magically manifest extra gold through drinking beer, it's probably actually just not worth too much, still worth a decent price, but not that expensive.
I got a relatively simple rule for mining gold/not mining it: If I'm playing Hazard 4 or lower, and can access the gold easily (it's either on the ground or I'm scout and I can have an engine put a plat up so I can get it), I'll mine it, because this is a funny Dwarf game and I'm mining gold like a Dwarf would. If I'm a class that can't get to the gold deposit easily, I'm not gonna go mine it. If I'm playing Haz 5 or an Elite Deep Dive, I'm not stopping for gold, because enemies are too frequent for me to justify the time spent mining the gold when that could be spent on moving further into the caves, mining nitra, or otherwise accomplishing my given objectives. That being said, if *someone else* I'm in a lobby with wants to mine the gold, I'm not gonna stop them, and if I'm playing engineer and a scout pings gold up high, I'll put a platform for them. What they're doing is their prerogative, and if they want to mine gold on the highest difficulties, while I might disagree with them, I'm not gonna call them out on it and will accommodate them if I am able to easily do so.
**ahem** FUCK THE ENGINEERS THAT DON'T PLATFORM GOLD WHEN REQUESTED I don't kick on principle, but my god if it doesn't tempt me. Just accomodate each other.
something that I think should be added to the conversation is if a gold loving engi pings and plats a gold vein for a gold hating scout. I don't really play engi or scout but I have seen one argument over it (not major) between an engi and a scout
Honestly I don’t really care about “maximum efficiency.” (Per minute or hour or however)I just want to see the xp and credit numbers at the end of each mission to be very big
Agreed. This conversation is still hung up on progression efficiency. The only way they discuss people wanting gold is "people think it's efficient" or "people may not want to sell minerals." No. I just want to collect every "valuable" as efficiently as possible without leaving a ton behind, for the fun and challenge of collecting it all. Which resource is more useful may determine priority in a bad spot, but I feel I really conquered the mission if we get everything. So yeah, I mine all the gold on Haz 5.
@@Fourger14 Damn. I cant even consistently clear Haz 5... But I also agree with this idea of collecting everything efficiently instead of collecting efficiently for time. I typically play for a long time but only get 2-3 missions done. Just like it better that way.
@@e.d.tejeda4333 Exactly. Past a certain point in progression, collecting anything at all is "pointless." The point is merely to gather it all and see how much you can safely gather in one mission. I'm not a God player by any means. I may frequently beat Haz 5 on solo, but the game gets harder with more players, so I can only beat Haz 5 four player if the whole team is on point. Some folks can solo carry the whole mission on that level of crazy. Still, I think speedrunning only the objective and minerals and then bailing should be the backup strategy for things going wrong. Otherwise, just feels like giving up from the start.
It immediately becomes worth it to mine timewise. The margins are so thin, cutting the time mining difference roughly in half (Minus a bit of extra platforming and travel time, lol) would make a significant difference in the credit/hour calculation. Hell, even if it only comes to ballpark par, I'd call the tweak a success.
Broooo that was my exact thought. Perfect solution imo. Maybe even a slight boost in value too, but yes one hit absolutely solves the problem in my mind
For me, the problem with gold is it's _annoying to mine._ Nitra? Takes *one hit;* is usually pronounced from the wall, making it easier to mine in many ways. Morkite? Takes *one hit;* is a mission objective and has a quota which _must_ be fulfilled. Gold? Takes *two hits;* is recessed to be flush with the wall, thereby making it harder to mine overall due to this combination of factors. Mission secondaries for me have a similar issue - fossils, apocablooms, etc.? No problem! Just zip by and snatch 'em up. Ebonuts? Good *LORD* - having to hit it _three_ times per unless you power attack is dreadful; on top of that, the third hit of your pickaxe is slow as hell when striking it, similar to hitting an enemy. You can just tap M2 on repeat, sure - but... why does it have to be so dreadfully slow? Gunk seeds are similar, given how they re round and love to roll down into care crevasses and such - and then you have to hold them in your hands and manually carry them to the deposit on missions such as point extraction, which can be horrific on maps like the ice caverns. TL:DR? Just make gold a one-hit material. It's not satisying to deal with stuff that's *_needlessly slow._*
Yeah, I don't bother with certain side objectives if I'm not well equipped to smash quickly with a power attack or one of the drinks, including ebonuts and gunk seeds.
I think gunk seeds are by far the worst offender, at least ebonuts are satisfying as fuck to crack open and you dont have to wait for molly to dump them in one by one
using the one hit gold mod honestly makes the game like 10% better, it's so nice to just be able to enjoy mining gold also i think power attacks should have like 1.5X the radius for minerals, right now it's pretty pointless to use it to mine stuff.
the problem here honestly doesn't seem to be misinterpreting the video so much as everyone only holds their own opinion/narrative/priorities and doesn't actually bother accommodating or even tolerating anyone else's, which then feeds into a cycle of only trusting your own opinion/narrative/priorities and so on edit: i will say though, when it comes to actually playing in-game and not on discord/reddit, i've never even actually run into either extreme of the gold mining discussion, so for the most part, i think the DRG playerbase is really pretty chill about it. but on the other hand, that makes a sudden discussion about the value of gold seem kind of un-chill by comparison. speaking to the "objective efficiency" is kind of an argument from authority, and i honestly think people would be more accommodating if you just asked for their help, so long as you don't sound annoyed or passive aggressive about it
like i still remember there was a bunch of drama in the monster hunter community because some people were optimizing for fastest possible single runs with no mistakes/ideal conditions and other people were optimizing for fastest possible farming over multiple runs with mistakes/unideal conditions, and it was just so pointlessly confrontational
I think that’s because places like Reddit and Discord, at least in my experience, tend to self-select for the most passionate members of a community. That can be a positive thing-it's nice to have a place to discuss interests that your IRL friends don’t share-but as we’ve seen with this whole gold debacle, it can also lead to pointless arguments.
There can be the occasional asshat since this is a coop game and people will get antsy that people are playing the way that they dont like and being riskier, leaving the team or going slower than they liked. Really people just need to chill since DRG is not a game that needs optimisation
Regarding the OC grind, I think a big reason the devs structured the game as they did is to maintain a high average player count. A big selling point of DRG is its large active base, and I believe by drip-feeding the high-value rewards over a long time frame they keep players coming back to the game for longer.
A pretty smart way to prevent burn out and keep the game interesting imo. Players don't have to keep playing every single day and overclocks just give new ways to play.
it's also smart to have player count spikes in the week. the weekly reset just happened so even people who have all the OCs want to try the new deep dive
Correct me if you guys addressed this somewhere, but based on the original video, gold is only NOT worth it if you are doing optimized runs to begin with. When you are playing in pubs you are going to be going much slower in general. If the base time to complete a mission increases, but the time to mine gold and amount of gold mined remain the same, then the relative value of mining gold increases. I recall the original video being based around solo testing as well. Taken to the extreme, an efficient 4 man run can mine the same gold in 1/4th of the time, possibly even faster if you are using something like gunner alone as your baseline. They cannot however complete missions in 1/4th the time. Even point extraction which is probably the most optimal mission type for going fast with multiple players, still has the 2 minute timer at the end that won't get any faster no matter what. Most mission types take roughly the same amount of time to at most double the time solo vs 4 player, yet mining gold costs far fewer "dwarf hours" than completing the mission.
Thats exactly what they're on about man. If you got time to spare why not. Take some shinies with you :D If you're not about min maxing your efficiency then mine whatever you want
@@HoxtonRules No it goes further than that. It's not just that you can get gold if you don't mind losing a bit of efficiency (by mining gold), it's that if you are playing the level inefficiently for whatever reason (maybe because you don't care, or maybe because you just aren't that good), gold actually BECOMES efficient.
@Sotanaht01 That's a bit like saying it's a good idea to drink your own urine if you don't have any water. You're right, but you may be better off examining the reasons that led you to not have water in the first place. And if you're really gung-ho about running out of water so you have an opportunity to drink piss you're just a weirdo looking for an excuse. The fact that you can engineer a situation where mining gold is the best option you have left doesn't mean mining gold is a good option then or ever, it just means you've become desperate. Grats. None of this is means mining gold makes you a bad person or anything. It's a video game. Do what you want. It's just tiresome seeing so many people who become offended when you talk to them about the potential consequences of their decisions. Conversation just breaks down at that point.
Yeah I think a lot of their assumptions are off. The biggest one is just being reasonable and getting the easy to get gold with teamwork, takes seconds, gets the same amount of credits as a secondary objective. They're saying you have to either get all the gold, which does take awhile and might not be worth it, or skip it altogether. Why? That's silly. It's not an either/or choice.
I think the 2 hit actually feels good to mine. Honestly its just so low value right now you could probably buff it substantially without affecting the correct play.
When it comes to DRG I’m one of those people that comes back cause well I gotta do the weekly and deep dives to get all the overclocks. And that isn’t me forcing myself to get my money’s worth of the game, I enjoy the progression. Having a goal to work towards in any game often makes me enjoy said game more. Do I enjoy DRG without that goal? Of course! But knowing that I’m getting those overclocks and promoting and what not by doing missions just makes it more enjoyable for me. I can’t explain why, it just is.
Well, sure. But then you're not really who I'm talking about in that bit, there's a difference between "enjoys progression" and "is only playing because they feel like they need to get everything".
@@LazyMaybe Just like there is a difference between the OC system that disincentivises grinding a lot of hours every day or week and say Halo Infinite's that incentivises grinding for hours.
I am in the same boat, I enjoy games because of the fact that I feel like I am getting something extra along with the fun gameplay, I enjoy when I have a goal to achieve. When it's just gameplay, each mission makes the experience more and more stale and eventually you stop having fun, in other words, you get burnt out but for me, I get burnt out a lot faster if I don't feel like I am earning anything out of it. As for players who play a game to completion like it's a job, I have honestly never seen someone that deranged in my life, I can't imagine playing a game I only enjoy because I want to complete literally everything, the moment you see cores as a collectable, I don't know what to tell you.
I said this before on one of Axis' videos (On The Topic Of Role Play) and I'm gonna kinda paraphrase it here... The strange split in the community around gold and the generally overdone pushback from some strikes me as a 'who threw the first brick?' type question. Not the first brick in DRG, but just in general. It has long been one of my great goals to understand player psychologies and the reasons behind why some behaviors arise. DRG in particular is a very relaxed game in the majority of cases, barring some Haz 4 situations and anything higher than it. Haz 5, modded, etc. Gaming in general, and especially shooters and other action games have long been trending toward this always-competitive sort of vibe and I've seen it push the players who just want to kick back and blast some stuff out of their favored spaces. DRG's an oasis away from that 'get good or get out' sort of vibe and like with the RP crowd who may have a few members in their lot who have been burned by fast, high skill players a few too many times - I know I certainly have been - the 'gold mining' population likely also has some of that going on, too. So in tandem with what Lazy said about players being caught between a rock and a had place, where gold gives enjoyable feedback but is less efficient and 'getting "better" ' requires giving up that enjoyable feedback, I think that the pushback might also be coming from an ingrained - and possibly unrecognized - aversion to increasing levels of competitiveness or anything that gives a sense of it. So who threw the first brick? In this scenario, I'd say players in other games that pushed away or otherwise ingrained a bad sense of what higher skilled players are into some of DRG's current playerbase. Between Humans being very adept at spotting and recognizing patterns, as well as logic often being cast aside in favor of emotion and irrational thinking, it wouldn't surprise me if it became known that these players in particular were conditioned to expect players who take the game more seriously to become toxic if they didn't also take the game seriously. It certainly took me a while to get over my fear of playing in public lobbies in DRG because other games had conditioned me to expect much more toxicity in similar situations. The DRG community doesn't exist in a vacuum, of course, and I do think that to at least better understand some of the quirks we have here, we also need to look at what we are also surrounded by, and see how that might be affecting the players that come here. Civil conversation and advocating for equal respect of players, regardless of their playstyle preferences is always a good step. Loved the discussion you two had, gonna listen to this a few more times for sure! Was like music to my ears. Keep up the awesome work!
this is exactly it, the hate and vitriol i receive for playing suboptimally or doing things i enjoy, and more importantly, that better players are able to actively ruin my experience by virtue of their superior efficiency, has lead to significant aversion to optimization or number seeking behavior, i enjoy the gameplay and everything serves that goal, so exp credits or materials are only prioritized as much as i need to gain the next upgrade, overclock, ect and anything else seems toxic and seems to be missing the point
I think it somehow just came to mind one day and this one person starts to ask about efficiency and the conversation started rolling. Then there just naturally started to pop up sides in this conversation. Those sides are now "mining Gold is fun to me" and "Mining Gold isn't fun to me and here is why". I think it wasn't rlly throwing Stones but somehow one Side didn't understand the others points. I am on the Side "I don't like mining Gold" Don't force me, but if you want I can spend a platform. Or mb the conversation was also fueled by the passive sabotage of mining Gold in Haz5 known or unknown when Scout/Engi should focus on Nitra idk. It is not just the Value of Gold but also what priority it has to players. I think it was the Haz5 thing. Not all Gold mining is bad, but you should know what has priority.
No, it’s people sprinting ahead and smashing mission progression events to speed run even if it will wipe the team. This isn’t a matter of skill, at all.
@@hokuhikene and what’s the priority based on? A spreadsheet? Or the intended game design? Because optimization and intended gameplay should never be conflated. Your art teams responsibility in any game is to convey information to the player. Gold being valueless in a game about mining is not what 99% of people are going to think. You might as well make gold instantly kill the player, and then defend that game design.
12:00 i am in this situation But in the discussion of "tryhards vs casuals" i feel its very possible to have a balance inbetween. I pretty much always fast deposit, but i wont really do other animation cancels since i find them annoying to do. I make loads of builds and try to optimize them, but ill use the GK2 over the M1000 since i like how it feels lmao
If gold wasn't automatically turned into credits and you needed to use gold to purchase things, like gold skin color, this conversation wouldn't be happening so intensely
Agreed, turn gold into a crafting mineral and let you into the mineral trader early only selling gold before unlocking the rest as per normal. Perhaps it could also be used for some kind of tech since gold makes a good conductor.
What I dislike is when I want to mine gold because I'm the dwarfsonification of a mineral hoarder, but my Scout and/or Engi are unwilling to platform/grapple to and mine gold. I also really dislike the 'just sell minerals' advice, because I feel like a lot of greybeards just forget how hard the grind is early on when it comes to minerals. We need them for everything, we can't just sell of spare ones when we don't have spare ones to sell.
The problem there is that you want *others* to go out of their way to play *your* way. Obviously that's going to raise tension. "I wish everyone just played my way." lol Yeah no kidding. Anyway, I was a "greenbeard" when I learned of "just sell minerals" and it worked out perfectly fine for me.
@@Collisto2435 Promotions are cheap early on, and patience I guess? Maybe it's just me, but I'm not the type of person that feels like they *have* to have everything *right now.* For those type of people maybe it is an issue. lol But gold doesn't fix that either anyway, so you're still going to have to have patience. That's the nature of grindy games.
Honestly, I think all the hate towards "don't bother mining gold" people comes from the playerbase's perception (warranted or not) that these people are "cringy toxic LoL speedruner types", i.e. things the overwhelming majority of players simply doesn't care about. And honestly? When you talk about "getting better at the game", the playerbase does not hear you say "aiming better, killing enemies with less ammo use, surviving missions more often, or better use of mechanics". They hear you say "play the game like you're on meth because anything slower is doing it wrong". That is IMHO the real problem - a miscommunication.
That’s not a miscommunication. That’s people who are unjustified jerks enforcing a stereotype all on their own, who are even still jerks if they were CORRECT. If a whole subset of the community WANTED to play like they’re on meth… they have EVERY RIGHT TO. That’s not a communication. The people being toxic towards their stereotype targets are just… the bad guys. Its entirely on them alone to clean up their act and up to us as a community to shun them, frankly.
Also because the game attracts a lot of casuals, and casuals often dont care about the hidden stuff. Any time real game numbers are brought up they become dismissive because 'youre a tryhard', as if that somehow invalidates the statement in question.
Wow. Instead of bickering like actual children because you guys disagree on a very minute and generally small issue, you guys actually did a collab together to bring both your evidences forward and had a decent discussion about the topic at hand. Very good shit yet again by this community.
Which is more efficient: minig gold, or spending 10000000 hours discussing if it's worth it minig gold? (just kidding, please continue. it's modern distribution of labor: some people waste thier time mining gold, some people waste thier time discussing gold)
The worst thing you can do in the middle of a game, efficiency wise, is get into a discussion of whether it's worth it to mine gold or not. Doesn't matter whether you are selling or keeping your minerals, mining gold or not, if you're standing about butting heads over it, the only winner is the bugs!
Which is why you don’t have your art team use GOLD as the in-game representation of worthless in a game about exploration and mining. You’re just going to turn every match into a solo speed run, with players spamming progress events even if it wipes the team.
27:30 Regarding the "don't buy minerals at 150" statement, I don't agree with it. Quite often, players end up with wildly disproportionate mineral amounts - probably, all of us are familiar with having '21 Jadiz, 34015 Croppa, 7 Enor Pearl'. The consumption of those minerals, however, is somewhat balanced, as shown in the latest AxisKronos's video. So, in cases like this, I think it's perfectly fine to convert the excess of one mineral to another, even at the 1/3 conversion rate.
To be honest, I don't care about the gold argument either way. I mine gold sometimes, I don't like selling my minerals since I still have other objectives I need to progress towards, I'm mostly focused around the build meta of this game since I find that much more engaging that raising my level. People are taking this debate way too seriously, this isn't like a PvP game where some people may have a point against you in a competitive sense, just play nice with everyone and it'll be all fine. Something I do care more about is the overclock discussion. Something I should establish first is that I'm not a very intrinsically motivated person, I need an outside bit of incentivisation in order for a game to keep me coming back. With that in mind, for the past 5 months or so, I've been doing every weekly core hunt and deep dive to grind out all the cores and overclocks I can. This begun as me trying to get Light-Weight Magazines, Magnetic Pellet Alignment and later on Cycle Overload for the Warthog but soon progressed into me trying to get them all because I was getting very bad RNG and had already collected a lot of them. I got every OC for the Shard and most of the OCs for all of Engie's other weapons before I got those 3 OCs. At the time, I was very frustrated, it was like I couldn't catch a break. I'm not huge on the Stubby and the Lok-1 is decent, but didn't have the same damage output/range/ammo efficiency of the Warthog, on top of me just preferring how the Warthog feels to use. However, in retrospect, I'm very glad I continued on because I found new ways to enjoy the game, I got better and even met some good friends through it. In that time I grew to love classes and guns that I otherwise wouldn't've if the journey had been shorter. So while I entirely understand people who don't want to grind for OCs as much and I definitely agree that there needs to be a faster way to get them, I can't say I'm that bothered about it. I'm not really sure what the answer to this dilemma would be to be honest. They could add a 4th way of obtaining cores and OCs but that could risk bloating the game, they could give you 2 OCs per weekly core hunt and deep dive but that might be a little overkill. This is not something I should really be deciding on since I'm already done with it and it doesn't particularly bother me anyhow. I'll let the people whom have a bigger issue with it than me make ideas on it.
I think they just need a reliable way to take RNG out of the occasion, even if it's very limited. That way getting the OC you want is a sure thing and when you get it by chance it's a pleasant surprise rather than relief that you can move on to the next class you want OCs for.
Definitely, the OC discussion is a really important one because it's something that seems to hold off a lot of players from enjoying the game as much as they could have. A suggestion I saw was using the error cubes as a way to get particular OCs, which may be nice, although playing seeded missions could make this obsolete and easy to exploit. This game has been a wonderful experience, and I've met some of my favorite friends playing it. Having put in like 30-50 hours a week into this game during the summer break, I can safely say I've enjoyed about 98% of it, with the only frustrations really coming from not getting some of the silly OCs that I wanted to try out for the longest time. The only other frustration has come from needing certain minerals and not having the biome that I want on the mission select menu XD Other than that, this game has been a delight to play, although it's more of a social experience, since doing things solo is not too fun in my opinion, unless I'm getting the last mission out of the way for an assignment while waiting in vc to play with my friends. I hope you continue to enjoy the game and that you get all the OCs you want, flamethrower has been treating me like crap lately, only have the lighter tanks OC even after 600+ hours of playing these last few months.
For me, it isn't that the grind for overclocks is the only thing keeping me playing, it's that three weeks of getting every core that week and only getting 2 overclocks I actually wanted is demoralizing as hell, and the fact that I just have to WAIT for a week IRL in order for RNJesus to probably fxxx me over yet again makes me *not* want to play. I really want to binge-play with certain overclocks, because I love this game, but the grind itself is what's killing my motivation, rather than that being the thing that keeps me playing. A year is 52 weeks. The 21 minimum weeks to get every single overclock is SIX MONTHS IRL, which is ridiculous! Especially if there's some weeks where you just had crap luck and couldn't beat the Elite Deep Dive (I'm not a God at DRG by any stretch), because that means it'll take even LONGER. From weeks I've already not gotten every core I could, I'm already looking at a 7+ month grind, that I'm only 2 months into. Grinding in games is a huge turn-off for me, and being forced to wait 5 months IRL until my crap luck gives me the OC I want as the last possible one just makes me want to play something else.
100% this. The overclock RNG system was never ideal, but has gotten significantly worse with the addition of new weapons. The chances of actually getting an interesting and game changing overclock that you want are way too low. There definitely needs to be a way to occasionally bypass the overclock RNG (My personal recommendation would be Error Cube forging)
Yeah, I'm at the tail end of the grind, and out of most of my friend group, I have the most hours in this game by a longshot. 600-700 hours just since the first season of the battlepass, on-and-off doing every weekly thing, and only just now, after getting just about every OC in the game, did i finally get the ones that I wanted to get. I wanted the funny fat boy, hoverclock, special powder, plasma burster missiles, blistering necrosis, six shooter, goo bomber, neurotoxin payload, etc. etc.... All of my friends that play the game got their favorite overclocks immediately, and it was somewhat frustrating that only after getting 500 hours in the game did I even get my first goddamn Flamethrower overclock. Don't get me wrong--I love this game, but it feels like when getting an overclock, could I at least choose the weapon I'm going to unlock it for? It feels like a gacha game at times. My favorite part of this game is that it's a social experience, my friends get together every couple of days and we have fun playing, running silly builds for hard missions, getting drunk on haz 5 lethal enemies + elite threat eliminations, and doing silly stuff. We talk and get to know each other, and at the same time just enjoy the funny dwarf game because we all find it fun, and we're all modestly competent. This is the only FPS game that I've ever taken seriously outside of the Metroid Prime games on the wii, since most competitive FPS games have just been a depressing and toxic mess to get into, and I didn't like it, but this--DRG is just a fun co-op game, where the incentive is to help your team and strategize, and you have the freedom to play the game how you want to play it. The meta doesn't matter as long as you're having fun IMO. If you're not having fun *and* running a shitty build, and getting angry that the game is too hard, maybe take some time to build your guns differently so you're not getting caught with your pants down, try something new, enjoy yourself. If you enjoy playing the meta, by all means play neurotoxin payload+fear. It doesn't and shouldn't matter how you want to play the game, and if you're coming into somebody else's game just to tell them they're playing "wrong" you're an asshole. Sorry, I have a tendency to rant. This game is great, just honestly, seeing some of the toxic people in this game on top of not getting the silly overclocks that I want to test out has made it underwhelming at times. But now that I'm nearing the point where I'm getting all the weapon overclocks forged and everything that I want, I'm starting to have a lot more fun playing, just building silly dwarves and taking what I think would be fun to play for whatever mission. Definitely Nano Tox is right, error cubes could totally be used for forging a specific overclock that you want--and if that makes error cubes more rare--so be it. If not for getting a specific overclock, getting to choose which weapon you want the overclock to be for would be cool for the error cube. It would have made my fire driller less unbearable (I'm still only running the ammo OC cuz that's the only one I have).
Exactly. Don't forget that those OCs also require minerals to forge. Missions are around 20 minutes each, and you also need those minerals for other things. This game is a massive timesink for no good reason. I'm 200 hours in, and I only started gathering OCs recently, because only at this point I'm comfortable enough progression wise. Because only after 200 hours I can be finally done with all weapon upgrade and promotion grind to get to arguably the most fun part about the game
Same, at least it coudl somewhat even out the distribution of the overclocks, after 4-5 months i still have absolutly fucking nothing for both cryocannon and hurricane. For the past 3 weeks i have gotten nothing but shit. Oh how gratefull i am for chain hit on subata my dear rngeesus.
Regarding the weekly reset and the extended grind: I'm someone who often only gets 2 to 6 hours play per week. I've been playing since march but have probably only done half a dozen deep dives. Regular missions are quicker and easier to commit to. I feel that at least if I get the chance to do my core hunt then I have the feeling I've kept up with my progression and havent really missed out on anything, and it does bring me back every week pretty much and is probably part of the reason ive kept up regular play. I agree that doubling the core reward could be a good idea, since there are so many now, but nevertheless I think the long grind gives the feeling that casual players arent really punished, which I appreciate.
I think we can all agree that this whole is gold worth debate is friggin stupid. Just play the game the way you want to, and don't judge anyone for playing the way they want too.
I think maybe a system that grants a higher reward multiplier based off of how many minerals you collected could be interesting. Like some bonus modifier for collecting more than the required amount of primary objectives/secondaries/gold etc, call it like “Overtime Bonus” or something. My friends and I often find that doing the required amount of stuff on Haz 5 to be pretty dull, but the potential value of totally clearing a cave just isn’t worth it in terms of time efficiency. Even EDDs and double warning labels haz 5 aren’t really challenging anymore, but I’m not really interested in downloading mods to change the base game. I hope they do something to optionally increase the difficulty of the game even further but also make it worthwhile to increase the difficulty to that level. Maybe some “endless” deep dive style game mode with crafting minerals and no difficulty cap could be interesting, the goal being to survive as long as you can and the longer you survive the bigger the pay out. Great video though, really enjoyed listening. Next weapon breakdown when? I need another hit, don’t hold out on me man…
Its hilarious how players can take a casual game so seriously. I have no problem with players doing that in their own game, but pushing their own playstyle onto others is really weird. For players which treat this as a big deal to the point of arguments, stop being weird.
A patch of gold takes 2 hits to be mined, and that's the only reason why I usually choose to avoid grinding through all the veins on the map. As far as "mah optimisation" goes, I don't care. I'm pretty sure most people don't - DRG is not a job and you're not doing shifts. It's a game, and is to be enjoyed for the reason of pure visual and aural gratification that it produces. If you like hitting shiny glowy bois, then do it. Or don't - it's no rocket science.
I remember playing a haz 5 mission where I was the host. And we had a crasus detonator. I asked people not to mine the gold since it would take too much time, but I was ignored. So I went to do the objectives, got all the morkite minus 15 remaining and 9/10 flies while team was still mining the damn gold. I told them to leave the god damn thing and help me finish the mission, for which I was accused of not helping with the gold. Ffs I completed the whole mission all by myself and got passive aggressive responses at the end. It's crazy how people just lose their minds over the bad game system.
For a crassus, because all of the gold is concentrated in one location, the time/reward calculation is actually more favorable than in the case of gold veins. Since the advantages of ignoring gold are very slight to begin with, mining the full crassus crater is likely more efficient. I regret to inform you of this, but you got angry at your team for playing optimally.
@@omnitroph1501 You realize that I basically finished the mission in time it took them to mine it? If they were helping me instead we'd be done with it significantly faster. Also it's a good etiquette to follow the host, if they ask you to leave the gold you leave, if they ask you to mine it, mine it.
A thing to consider is that this entire conversation really only applies to solo play, which I would guess the majority of people do not play. Once multiplayer enters the conversation the biggest strength of the argument to not mining gold for a small potential XP gain goes out the window because you can not speed up the mission duration in multiplayer nearly as much. Think of it this way, if someone on your team is way ahead of you mining some of the last bit of morkite you need, carrying the last aquarq back, building out the last refinery pipe you need built, etc, there is literally nothing you can do to change the speed in which the mission will finish, you either stand around and wait, or you potentially mine any gold that hasnt been mined yet. These types of scenarios happens way more often than you think and because of how small of the XP gain was in solo play to begin with, you are no doubt losing out on both XP and money in almost every multiplayer game if you dont mine gold when you would be just waiting around, and the more people in the group, the more this applies. For me personally, most of the time I dont mine it because im lazy and I dont really care either way
Except the game is about mining and exploration. It’s not about speed running every objective and wiping your team because of what you read on a spreadsheet. The art team shouldn’t choose gold as the in-game representation of valueless.
I disagree with your presentation here of including the in-game audio of your B-rolling footage especially since you were talking and had music playing in the background. I found the inclusion of the irrelevant footage's audio to be very distracting. It's not necessary to include the audio because that's not the focus of the video. Sorry for the nitpick but I felt something needed to be said about it. Keep making awesome videos!
I’m glad you guys are doing this. Some people (let’s be honest, many people) seem to look at the gold debate purely in black-and-white terms. Hopefully hearing you two have a nuanced discussion will put that notion to rest. It’s also just cool to hear Axis chatting with another DRG-tuber again. I’ve missed his drop pod casts.
If there was a "level me up faster" brew that increased the value of gold that could shift the favor and give players effectively a leveling boost. Or if the "Gold Rush" modifier was changed to instead increase the rewards of gold then mining it could be conditionally an attractive option.
"The big bad tryhards are trying to ruin our fun" seems like a pretty dismissive and reductive re-interpretation, and maybe precisely what they're talking about? EDIT: :"Usually that's said in a pretty measured way" yeah, so this is why people get argumentative. What a disgusting generalization that both plays to emotion in your favor and generalizes about everyone's experiences to support your argument. Regardless of if you mine gold or not, you really should not speak on behalf of other people's experiences, good or bad.
Like, the only reason this is even remotely a topic of public discussion is that it comes up, and "Hey you're playing the game in a way that is sub-optimal" may be factually accurate, but is always a shitty thing to say to someone, even in the most generous interpretation, in a co-op public game with zero stakes. Final fantasy 14 has this argument every three months on reddit about using DPS trackers to harrass other players about their sub-optimal rotations in public matchmade dungeons.
I don't care about time-efficiency B.S., I have TONS of overclocks and cosmetics and promotions to spend credits on, and IT'S LITERALLY MONEY HANGING ON THE WALLS. I will ALWAYS mine gold, even if it's just to flex when I have already baught everything I want.
DRG is my go to relaxation-shooter, and I've always loved how fresh the game feels after I watch videos like this. The environments are engaging, the shooting feels snappy and fun, and the depth of the game gives back what you put in. I usually ignore gold in games because I feel like gold can be its own objective once you start to run low on credits. Otherwise, it can feel like a drag to spend time on it. Thanks for making this content guys, I appreciate you two speaking your minds! :D
This is incredibly fascinating! Online PVE games have long had the rumor that the playerbase that follow those types of games are obsessed with optimization and an objective way of play. From MMO players forcing their teammates to take specific builds, otherwise they get kicked out of the guild to a lot of Mann vs Machine players in TF2 being prone to kick anyone not following an acceptable strategy (also, see taco.tf). While this also goes for PVP games, there is a tendency to excuse it (slightly) more there given its competitive nature and the opposition being actual human beings on an equal playing field. In PVE however, you find it gets frowned upon much more given the stigma that it's just PVE and there is no rank or MMR to worry about. Now a lot of that has to do with how the game is percieved. MMOs are mostly known for being games for a hardcore audience where the gameplay is more rigid and it's all about optimization. Games like TF2 and DRG however have a lot of goofy aspects. They are known for including silly weapons, being comedic and more about goofing off with your friends. There's a reason valve focused on CS:GO as the competitive game and not TF2 after all. Not because TF2 had no competitive viability or a lacking player base, but because TF2 was never seen as the hardcore competetive game that CS:GO is often seen as among most people. Now, I am not saying DRG isn't deep and doesn't have many layers of intricacies. Just that the way most talk about DRG it's the space dwarf game where they yell "rock and stone" and your shotgun launches you like a rocket launcher. So it naturally attracts those players that like the goofy aspects of video games. When there are so many communities where you get flamed for not making the optimal decisions, having a game where that seemingly matters less is like a haven! All those people burned by other multiplayer games seeking refuge in DRG, where it's commonly accepted to stop the mission to spam ping a mushroom or a piece of gold (despite of how much time is of the essence in DRG), where it's normal that at the end of a mission the resident driller throws a C4 at the drop pod potentially killing an ally. It's like a safe space, they finally have the game that they truly wanted. An online game with options, where fucking around is encouraged and it's possible to win without crunching numbers. Then suddenly, someone suggests that there is an optimal way to play the game, and that say using a specific overclock actually reduces your effectiveness. The player is reminded of all the time someone has flamed them or kicked them from the lobby just because they didn't follow "the meta". It's scary to think their safe haven might be threatened, so they lash out. Seeing that there are multiple people resisting this, i think subconsciously they almost formed a mentality trying to shame people for playing optimally. Bringing in words like "tryhards". "sweat-lords" or the classic "not a real dwarf", much like how in other games where players playing weird builds where referred to as "noobs", "idiots" or "throwers". In reality, i think DRGs community has gone extreme in the other direction. I remember when i first started playing, i would ping compressed gold not because i wanted to but because i was afraid I would get kicked otherwise. While that might sound unreasonable, i think the way the DRG community is portrayed almost gives it a cult like appearance, just with memes instead of meta. In reality, i think this a most curious phenomenon! The DRG community so adamant about being the best community (compare this to say the Dota community that willingly calls itself horrible and shrugs it off), that it gives it an unnerving edge. The first time you see everyone going "rock and stone" it's charming, but by the hundreth time you start to slowly want to back away. It's endlessly interesting to me that when people talk about adding healing utility to DRG, the first response is always "but then people will flame you if you aren't using it" rather than actually discussing if it even fits within the game. I think the devs have embraced this to a certain extent because they see what the larger community wants. People were more excited about the devs adding a voice line where MC gets pissed at the players for spam pinging the mushroom then any of the experimental balance changes. Popular videos of DRG (mostly made from people who play it once and never again) reinforce the goofy aspects, since that is "clearly" what people are here for. This is almost a dream come true for many devs, because weapon balancing isn't inherently a very fun part of game development (what is, amiright) but just tweaking numbers little by little to see where you can get that balanced sweetspot is not nearly as flashy as other aspects. Also, some developers find it much more exciting to work on new stuff rather than reiterating on the old stuff for the umpteenth time. I can't speak for GSG, but it is a common mentality in game development. If you can just make a couple changes to glaring issues without having to finecomb through every little balancing issue in a game as vast as DRG and the community at large seems fine with it, then you're cruising. Now, there are enough theorycrafters and optimizers in the community that i think there will always be someone out there pushing for balance. But with how much the community showers GSG in praise i hope it doesn't got to their head. I respect GSG alot, not just because i like their game quite a lot, but also because of how passive they are with monetazation. Though a game lacking a shitty monetization system does absolutely not make it immune to criticism, i refuse to let my standards sink that low. Still, with how one of the devs reacted to the "liquid morkite" meme, i wonder if there is some annoyance with how DRG is almost looked more as a meme than an actual game. TFL;DR edition: Most online games have communities that flame people for being unoptimal or "playing wrong", i think DRG is a place where everyone who has been on the recieving end of that can go to play the game however they want and as such react viciously when they spot something that reminds them of earlier flaming (like optimal builds or bad equipment). Resulting in a community that is almost equally volatile, just instead of using the right equipment, it's about having the right mentality.
Best thing said in this video was respect the host. I play in a similar style. If they want to strip mine I'll oblige, if they want to speed run I'll follow and I'll always wait for the host to "r" in chat before hitting the escape button. I personally don't touch gold on my runs, exception of a odd power swing when I'm running by.
2:58 This is a big reason why this is the only DRG channel I watch, you provide information and allow the viewer to form their own opinion instead of spoonfeeding it to them. I'm particularly tired of seeing people parrot AxisKronos' opinion on cryo minelets.
I've just crossed the threshold into Leg-1 for all of my dwarves (I level them evenly). I have all the cosmetic shop items for each of them, and I did not optimize my spending with phazyonite. I don't go out of my way to mine gold, I don't speedrun, I play double-xp almost every chance I get, I don't sell minerals, I've never been short on resources for a promotion, I've stopped doing my weekly assignments unless I'm playing with friends who also want to do them, and I still have 1.5 million credits in the bank and about 10k of every crafting mineral. This makes me very confident that, unless you are purely optimizing for xp gain/mission time, you won't hit a gold shortage. Those who take the time to mine every vein can do so if they enjoy it, but there's no valid argument for it with regard to progression.
The "word of god" towards a great figure in the community reminds me of how in Risk of Rain 2 "the 5 minute rule" became, like, a staple, and people are diwided on those who play as they want and decide right and people that will crucify them for not playing "as optimally as famous youtuber said". Like, its not a bad concept to follow, it is a good one, but people just dont make their own opinions based on their gaming experience, and take it as a HOLY LAW OF PLAYING THE GAME RIGHT. And it just gets... really toxic talking about this, DRG has its easier cause gold is basically side side objective, but in ROR its about main gameplay loop.
Ironic how the “Lazy said so.” thing applies to their argument: it was lazy. Which is hilarious because HAVE YOU SEEN THIS GUY? He is the opposite of lazy in the best possible way (nerd wise).
the bell curve meme is kinda where I'm at. I loved gold at the start because I needed the extra money for those weapon and gear upgrades. While they are peanuts to an older player, they add up quickly for new players that want to find the class they like the most. Now I'm gray and old and remember how much that extra cash means to a greenbeard that is grinding out weapon perks and I stuff my pockets whenever I can for the team.
I don't think this is a mining, progression, opinion or even gold issue. It's an AxisKronos issue. To begin with, who does a response video... this is not the DRG rap battle. Then have a look at his comment section and compare it to yours. There's a difference between stating ones opinion and promoting a healthy discourse to in contrast dealing in absolutes. When you deal in absolutes and fashion yourself a memelord when people try to argue with you, obviously they will react in kind, birds of a feather and stuff. Nothing good will come of something like that so you should've just let this entire topic go.
Agreed. Additionally, he talks about how so many people in his videos comment sections disagree with him on this. I watch most of his DRG videos and the comment sections are much more full of sycophants praising his skill and agreeing with everything he says. Just seems like he has an ego problem with how he responds to people.
@@elgringosupremo Thing is, referring to his comment section, he is already starting this video with "how much he has to laugh about his comment section". That should tell people how much he values their input/what he thinks of them. Skill is then again, an entirely different can of worms. In a game that is all about you clicking on bugs that can do nothing but crawl towards you in a straight line "skill" is something highly subjective. But that's just my opinion. I'm not the one telling you that if your opinion differs from mine your intellect is probably wanting. All in all I personally have stopped watching his videos a long time ago, it is undisputable that he has a excellent game knowledge that probably stems from a large amount of experience but presentation is everything. And I just don't have those masochistic tendencies that allow me to enjoy AxisKronos videos.
I just don’t care, I do what’s fun and the only place I optimize is with my builds, and even then I have a lot for fun and a lot for optimization plus some that balance the two (please give us more slots PLLLEEAASSSEEE).
I doubt most players are playing efficiently enough for saving time by not mining gold to be relevant. And I say this as someone who doesn't mine gold. Mostly because I don't enjoy mining gold. The value of gold is part of that but the other part is that gold takes 2 hits to mine. It doesn't feel fun hitting this gold for a minute or 2, twice as long as Nitra and Morkite, then realize that you got 30 gold or 60 credits. I rather do something fun like mission objectives and exploring the level. It really is the mining part mostly for me. I'll pick up loose gold as I walk by it. I'll break a golden lootbug to get the gold. I'll ignore Crassus gold, but also kite a regular bulk to Crassus gold and pick up the chunks. I think buffing gold in a way that feels like the time swinging a pickaxe at it is worth your time is a good idea. As for OC grind. I don't mind the time gate so much, I just want there to be more ways to reduce the RNG for the OCs. Even picking by weapon instead of just class when writing blank cores would be fine.
I have no issue if you mine gold or you don't, in fact I don't mine gold a lot of the time, but I think some of the knee jerk reactions are caused by wording. like at 19:10 , Kronos says "I've never met a game community so adverse to improving at the game." as an outside statement, that is harsh. Even if not mining gold is an improvement in efficiency, people might take as "you're not good at this game if you mine gold." or "you're against being good at this game if you think you should mine gold." Someone misunderstanding the point of the statement, especially one being told they should change the way they play from how they like to play it, could just knee jerk into saying those "you're just a leaf lover" type statements. It's decently clear that this isn't what AxisKronos thinks, given how he says things along the line of "if you want to play that way go ahead, but just give me the same treatment as well," but someone seeing red could ignore that and go get pitchforks and torches.
20:35 Can't believe you forgot the other facts people are weird about, such as the GK2 being objectively bad, or Double Barrel being worse than Stuffed Shells.
Imo it'd make sense to add more stuff that is really expensive to buy (like really really expensive) but drastically increase the value of mining gold. They could also make gold ore take only take 1 pickaxe swing to break so it's less annoying and time consuming. People who don't want to mine it can simply sell their minerals for a high price but the others who do like mining it have a nicer time doing so and more of an incentive for it. I've never really been in a situation where I had to actively try to farm for gold because I had too little to buy/forge sth and so I never really see the need to mine it even tough I would want to. tldr: Drastically increase Gold value, Make it take 1 hit to mine, add some cool stuff that's incredibly expensive so you have a reason to mine it.
My friend likes to say, "I optimize for fun per hour." I think it's good to have something in the game that's a simple pleasure and calls back to the game's roots, but in such a way that it doesn't feel mandatory for speed players or anyone else who finds it too repetitive. It's harmless.
I like the idea of mining gold being a thing you can do if there's nothing else to do and you're waiting on another player or a mission timer. I often find myself enjoying the self imposed challenge of trying to mine gold during the extraction countdown of refining or aquarks mining, even if its just for a moment until my inventory fills up. Ideally, gold mining would be more engaging, and inventory capacity for gold specifically should be doubled(makes enough sense since dwarves love gold). Something like a rhythm based mining mechanic would be cool, where, after the first hit, the gold shimmers halfway to when you should hit again. Then, depending on the timing of hits 2 and 3, the 3rd hit would mine gold in a large area, scaling with how well you timed the hits, with excellent timing mining the whole vein. It would make mining gold more exciting and less tedious.
9:34 Completely agree. Personally when i play, if i can reach the gold without any traversal tool and i dont have to go out of my way to get it, i will take a few swings at it, carving out the girthiest slice out of the center of it. Also if i dont have time, i will often power attack it as i run by.
Lazy this was a great collab, I'm bias since Axis is a friend but I love your viewpoint and calm approach. Good balance to his mania. 😉 Would love to see some you in a droppod cast of his someday and hear more about you. 👍🏻
I'm glad that you guys made this video, because I've been going insane trying to talk to people on Reddit. I don't mind people not agreeing with me, but I just wish there was an actual discussion. Instead there's a massive circlejerk of people going around telling each other just how wholesome they are. Also, on an unrelated note, love the ending to the video
I'm usualy mining all the gold out of accomplishment sake, but willing to skip golden crator after crassus detonator, because how long and inconvinient it is to mine it. Agreeing with people who saying that gold should much be rarer but more valuable.
From credit perspective gold might not be worth mining. It's also a little tedious to mine because it needs two hits. Personally I mine gold because I like mining. Bottom line do whatever you find fun, that's what video games are for right?
I don't really care about efficiency I just want to mine stuff. I'm a simple dwarf, I see shiny - I dig said shiny. I'm just a hoarder who likes mining and hates selling stuff (When I found out about gold being bad, I was kinda sad, but I expected it and I'm totally fine with people ignoring it)
It's not bad. It is "not optimally efficient when grinding for xp or credits with intent". If you're just playing in a random lobby, without excessive communication or focus on speed, it doesn't make much of a difference whether you mine it or not.
@@ToxNano Yep. That's the big elephant people keep ignoring, you can't guarantee the time efficiency needed if you play even semi-casually. If anything, convenient gold can be seen as insurance for bad time efficiency. We're not even getting into the variance present in how much mineral you can mine while keeping time efficiency up.
The way I see the Gold isn't so much as how much it's worth but whether or not it's worth the risk. I generally mine what I see but depending on the mission it might be best to just skip the gold and get out of dodge (Mainly in Haz5 Missions with Swarmageddon, Shield Disruption, and Rival Pressence). On Haz1-3 (and DD for the most part) I'll simply so it just because of the fact that nothing on that difficulty is deadly enough to pose an actual threat to me (That and the rewards aren't as high as Haz4 and higher missions), but on Haz4-5 and EDD I have to quickly decide if it's worth taking or not, especially during a massive Swarms. I care more about actually completing the mission (and yes this includes leaving Dwarves behind) than thinking about whether or not it's worth mining the Gold I skipped and selling minerals. You can't be a rich Dwarf if you got eaten by Bugs or gunned down by Robots. (And to those who post links to videos to prove themselves right, whether it actually is or not.. go touch grass before I lob a Fatboy at you, and kick you if I'm the Host. Let people play the bloody game, don't go full Redditor just because you want a ego boost or some other crap. Uncle Nukington isn't gonna take that nonsense.)
Really only mine gold when waiting for team/ drippod/ or it’s in my face Don’t go out of my way or during egg hunts and escort to get gold bc of current objectives being s u r v i v e
I enjoy the moment to moment, but after getting a star on each dwarf and unlocking all the guns, I really struggle to choose a mission without an assignment. I've been grinding hard to get to 100 so I have a new assignment for armor that I'm doing tonight after work. So I very much enjoy being made to wait for overclocks and not grinding them out in a month or two
I don't think people mine gold because of the "sound" or the "feels" (a least not average players)... is a resource that will give you credits and xp... without doing any calculations, everybody will take it
I think that gold should at least, like nitra, take one swing to mine. They come in veins that are as big as nitra, but take twice as long to get off the wall.
I always mine gold because I need money to buy bismor. I'm out of bismor. I don't mine gold only if I physically can't, like if I'm swarmed in an elite deep dive
idk if anyone else has said something like this or if its been addressed in the past, but what problems could come up if gold's credits value was supercharged so it was easily more time efficient for credits to get as much gold as possible, but as a tradeoff make it give very little or even zero xp so it has a clear division of grab for cash, skip for levels?
I would really love to see another conversation between you two about general overclock effectiveness. I know you said you don't like tier lists but it would be interesting to hear you both discuss what you think is generally good or not and why.
the fortunate thing is that the difference is minimal enough to where it doesn’t matter too much, so even though I love the feeling of mining gold despite reaching the point in time about 500hrs in where I have a steady 500k credits and a mineral supply both of which will never decline as I only have promotions and overclocks to buy (almost done with OCs too) i’m obviously not gonna be rude to those who love optimization. If you like mining gold and have fun doing it, who cares if you’re only very slightly inefficient? If you like optimizing for max XP, or max credits by selling minerals since you don’t need them as much in the mid to late game anymore, go right ahead. Either side threatening to kick the other from their server is precisely what we as a community should avoid. From what I’ve seen, though, this is rare. Thankfully as one of the most chill PVE communities out there I don’t see very much toxicity and I have games where some of us mine gold and the others leave it. When I play Scout, I love the feeling of being so quick and efficient at my mining that in the time it takes for my teammates to finish the objective, there’s not a single mineral left in the cave. Or I finish early and help them with the objective. This mindset bleeds over to when I play the other classes too, to the point my friends keep calling me a scout main even though I love all classes equally (with only a slight bias towards Gunner because joining a mission to see 3 dead dwarves and clutching it out on haz5 feels soo good, he’s like the closest thing to a support class that this game should have, and i also like how he’s kind of an underdog since he’s slightly less played than the other 3 in the community) Even though technically minerals and gold are both pretty much useless once you unlock everything, I mine gold because I wanna help out the other players in the server with me, I like seeing the numbers go up, I like the sounds they make, I like leaving no minerals behind, Ultimately it is preference. I even ignore gold on EDD unless there’s downtime, because there I’m in it to win, and the payout in credits is already high for the time invested if you speedrun it, which the difficulty already encourages you to do anyways. If you wanna mine gold go ahead, if you don’t then don’t. Let nobody stop you. Also about NTP, Minelayer and some other OCs people consider broken I like them because I find them fun, not because I’m some big bad braindead tryhard. I stand by this, even if (and lets be honest WHEN) they get nerfed i’d use them. Minelayer in particular because me and my friends I play TF2 with have an injoke with the Demoman class where using the Scottish Resistance (a sticky bomb launcher that gives you +6 for a total of 14 possible bombs at a time) is just laying down ballpits, it’s especially funny if one person goes Engi to place a building to hide the bombs under, so mine laying as a gun reminds me of those funny moments. I also just like using it as a sort of pocket shield to defend, say, an engi who’s building his turrets I feel like people see too much in black and white when it comes to other players’ intentions, while I do enjoy trying in video games I also like to use gimmicky strategies and nerfing myself with bad/meme weapons, or in this case mods/oc’s. Nothings wrong with being a competitive player or a casual player, and some players actually do both depending on their mood, which is my ideal method of play. If NTP was nerfed to be more of a support like tool for slowing down the bugs with its status effect and had the damage toned down, it could be more balanced but remain fun. I do think Minelayer’s extra damage is deserved due to it needing the arm time but it can be toned down, since it already has the AoE that Gunner normally struggles with, making it too much of a do-everything button. As it stands, Minelayer’s extra damage AND AoE makes it far too ammo efficient, not as much as NTP but still pretty good and I believe the OC can still remain fun if the damage is toned down a bit. That’s just my two cents, though. I’ve never designed video games, so I’m by no means a balancing expert, but hopefully in the future these OCs can remain fun for those who like it but balanced for those who don’t wanna feel forced to use it over the other OCs that they wanna use instead. I think this game in general is pretty well balanced, though, to the point that there’s only like 5/6 truly bad OCs or weapon mods, and even then an experienced player can take them and still excel, so GSG did very well in that regard. Maybe in the future they can strike a perfect line where every weapon mod and oc is fun, viable, not too much stronger than the others, and a place where people who don’t enjoy mining gold have their alternative method of credit gain while people who do enjoy mining gold can be just as equally efficient. Also while I’m here please remember to tip Lloyd at the Abyss Bar. He deserves it. TLDR mine gold if u want to or don’t if u don’t, don’t harass other players for differing gameplay styles. Overpowered mods/ocs aren’t a huge problem compared to some other games due to the pve nature but just like the gas passer in TF2 MVM it can ruin it for your teammates due to making it too easy for them so keep that in mind.
Amazing video 😊 As someone who's just sat on the sidelines of this whole community debate, this is exactly the kind of video I love. "Here is the most accurate information we can provide. Now, make your own decision based on how you want to play and stop trying to force others to make the same one." Love both of you guys, keep up the great content!
To be fair, they've both been saying that the entire time. It's mainly just the people who are outraged by the fact that the information doesn't conform to how they already play that act otherwise.
Since some people got the wrong idea from AxisKronos' response to my "Is mining gold worth it" video(we do not have beef), and my video could've been clearer in the first place, here's a long discussion we had going over stuff relating to gold value, grind, progression etc.
This probably won't make a lot of sense unless you watch AxisKronos' video that this is a followup to: ua-cam.com/video/1kXQVhdWTHQ/v-deo.html
Based friendship
you sound like a DRG version of Ian from forgotten weapons
This is why I should play more single player more
@@CopeAndSeeth Holy shit you're right
Because of weird people
No you see Gold is valuable. Not in credits but in the amount of youtube videos that can be made on it
Shit he’s onto us
Something commonly missing from this convo is that not everyone spams missions back to back to back like an xp speedrunner would. Some people take time between missions to drink, screw around, wait for the rollover to see what alerts there are, wait for their friends, etc. Some people may decide to run two missions before bed. Some people just want to do their assignment and then log off. In all of these cases, the benefit of going 1 minute faster due to skipping gold is completely nullified, other than just going faster in that mission to potentially avoid another wave. For these people, mining gold may often increase the amount of money AND xp they make in a period of play.
Yeah for casual or even just slow-ish gameplay gold is more than worth it.
What if someone does two missions before bed, and avoiding gold lets them get a better night's sleep?
@@sauceinmyface9302 they could just not play the game if they want "efficient sleep". But noone is optimizing their life like that. They have 1 hour before bed and skipping gold would never allow them to fit another mission
@@choty7066 How long do you think most missions are? Because I play DRG a lot before leaving to do irl things and one hour is usually enough for two missions (including longer ones like refinery with bad spawns) and I'll still end up with enough time to check my gear, customize my build a bit, etc. Some missions could even be finished in less than 15 minutes like point extraction.
@@choty7066 It might not be their goal to skip gold so they get more "efficient sleep" (lol) but it is worth considering that would be atleast a marginal benefit to their sleep in so far as that skipping gold would reduce the amount of time they are spending in the specific amount of missions they are going to do before bed.
The way I see it, Gold should be changed to be much more valuable but rarer in turn, that way it would both save more time by not having to mine it as much while also being more rewarding. Because I feel like if you're creating a situation where players are actively choosing to skip gold in the first place then it's failing it's purpose. In the game about mining stuff, players shouldn't be told not to mine stuff.
Yeah because whenever you find a concentrated gold ore, it’s only 100 gold, not very cash money
I agree
Half as common, four times the gold?
@@Collisto2435 half as Common Double the gold
@@Collisto2435 There would be a big difference in credits/time spent, but the total ammount per mission would be the same.
Normal Gold: is gold worth to mine?
Compressed Gold: WE'RE RICH
WE'RE RICH
WE’RE RICH
WE'RE RICH
WE'RE RICH
WE'RE RICH
I just think it's a great piece of narrative-gameplay integration that Deep Rock is actively scamming the dwarves on gold.
Maybe gold just isn't that worth it though? It's the future after all. We don't know hardly anything about the economy of this universe besides us mining for a profit.
@@AndrewChumKaser I mean with all the electronics being needed for the space stuff being lost (abandoned pods), gold is still probably worth a lot
@@ImDaRealBoi I mean in star wars gold is actually a pretty cheap
Honestly, considering it's so common that gold is just everywhere, and that there is a way to magically manifest extra gold through drinking beer, it's probably actually just not worth too much, still worth a decent price, but not that expensive.
@@HexagonThatReallyLikesVinegar You realize that Hoxxes IV is ridiculously rich in minerals right? There is more gold there than in our solar system.
I got a relatively simple rule for mining gold/not mining it: If I'm playing Hazard 4 or lower, and can access the gold easily (it's either on the ground or I'm scout and I can have an engine put a plat up so I can get it), I'll mine it, because this is a funny Dwarf game and I'm mining gold like a Dwarf would. If I'm a class that can't get to the gold deposit easily, I'm not gonna go mine it.
If I'm playing Haz 5 or an Elite Deep Dive, I'm not stopping for gold, because enemies are too frequent for me to justify the time spent mining the gold when that could be spent on moving further into the caves, mining nitra, or otherwise accomplishing my given objectives.
That being said, if *someone else* I'm in a lobby with wants to mine the gold, I'm not gonna stop them, and if I'm playing engineer and a scout pings gold up high, I'll put a platform for them. What they're doing is their prerogative, and if they want to mine gold on the highest difficulties, while I might disagree with them, I'm not gonna call them out on it and will accommodate them if I am able to easily do so.
based as hell man, I do the same but never realized.
**ahem**
FUCK THE ENGINEERS THAT DON'T PLATFORM GOLD WHEN REQUESTED
I don't kick on principle, but my god if it doesn't tempt me.
Just accomodate each other.
that's actually based and Dwarf pilled
This is the best possible way to look at it
something that I think should be added to the conversation is if a gold loving engi pings and plats a gold vein for a gold hating scout. I don't really play engi or scout but I have seen one argument over it (not major) between an engi and a scout
Honestly I don’t really care about “maximum efficiency.” (Per minute or hour or however)I just want to see the xp and credit numbers at the end of each mission to be very big
Agreed. This conversation is still hung up on progression efficiency. The only way they discuss people wanting gold is "people think it's efficient" or "people may not want to sell minerals." No. I just want to collect every "valuable" as efficiently as possible without leaving a ton behind, for the fun and challenge of collecting it all. Which resource is more useful may determine priority in a bad spot, but I feel I really conquered the mission if we get everything. So yeah, I mine all the gold on Haz 5.
@@Fourger14 Damn. I cant even consistently clear Haz 5... But I also agree with this idea of collecting everything efficiently instead of collecting efficiently for time. I typically play for a long time but only get 2-3 missions done. Just like it better that way.
@@e.d.tejeda4333 Exactly. Past a certain point in progression, collecting anything at all is "pointless." The point is merely to gather it all and see how much you can safely gather in one mission. I'm not a God player by any means. I may frequently beat Haz 5 on solo, but the game gets harder with more players, so I can only beat Haz 5 four player if the whole team is on point. Some folks can solo carry the whole mission on that level of crazy. Still, I think speedrunning only the objective and minerals and then bailing should be the backup strategy for things going wrong. Otherwise, just feels like giving up from the start.
@@Fourger14 I’m one of those people that can hard carry, did it for 2 green beards on an EDD last week 😂, Karl blessed me that night 🤣
No one is stopping anyone from mining the things they wanna mine.
You must consider above all else:
What if gold was a one-hit mineral instead of two?
It immediately becomes worth it to mine timewise. The margins are so thin, cutting the time mining difference roughly in half (Minus a bit of extra platforming and travel time, lol) would make a significant difference in the credit/hour calculation. Hell, even if it only comes to ballpark par, I'd call the tweak a success.
Broooo that was my exact thought. Perfect solution imo. Maybe even a slight boost in value too, but yes one hit absolutely solves the problem in my mind
Originally, the gold from a Crassus has this effect.
@@memes_the_dna_of_the_soul5487 holy shit thatd be so nice, i cant believe they reverted that
@@FrazzleFlib They reverted it because it didn't work with Pots o' Gold iirc
For me, the problem with gold is it's _annoying to mine._
Nitra? Takes *one hit;* is usually pronounced from the wall, making it easier to mine in many ways.
Morkite? Takes *one hit;* is a mission objective and has a quota which _must_ be fulfilled.
Gold? Takes *two hits;* is recessed to be flush with the wall, thereby making it harder to mine overall due to this combination of factors.
Mission secondaries for me have a similar issue - fossils, apocablooms, etc.? No problem! Just zip by and snatch 'em up.
Ebonuts? Good *LORD* - having to hit it _three_ times per unless you power attack is dreadful; on top of that, the third hit of your pickaxe is slow as hell when striking it, similar to hitting an enemy. You can just tap M2 on repeat, sure - but... why does it have to be so dreadfully slow?
Gunk seeds are similar, given how they re round and love to roll down into care crevasses and such - and then you have to hold them in your hands and manually carry them to the deposit on missions such as point extraction, which can be horrific on maps like the ice caverns.
TL:DR? Just make gold a one-hit material. It's not satisying to deal with stuff that's *_needlessly slow._*
Yeah, I don't bother with certain side objectives if I'm not well equipped to smash quickly with a power attack or one of the drinks, including ebonuts and gunk seeds.
I think gunk seeds are by far the worst offender, at least ebonuts are satisfying as fuck to crack open and you dont have to wait for molly to dump them in one by one
using the one hit gold mod honestly makes the game like 10% better, it's so nice to just be able to enjoy mining gold
also i think power attacks should have like 1.5X the radius for minerals, right now it's pretty pointless to use it to mine stuff.
the problem here honestly doesn't seem to be misinterpreting the video so much as everyone only holds their own opinion/narrative/priorities and doesn't actually bother accommodating or even tolerating anyone else's, which then feeds into a cycle of only trusting your own opinion/narrative/priorities and so on
edit: i will say though, when it comes to actually playing in-game and not on discord/reddit, i've never even actually run into either extreme of the gold mining discussion, so for the most part, i think the DRG playerbase is really pretty chill about it. but on the other hand, that makes a sudden discussion about the value of gold seem kind of un-chill by comparison. speaking to the "objective efficiency" is kind of an argument from authority, and i honestly think people would be more accommodating if you just asked for their help, so long as you don't sound annoyed or passive aggressive about it
Yeah, some people really take stuff too far. I got kicked for mining two small pieces of gold vein a few days ago.
like i still remember there was a bunch of drama in the monster hunter community because some people were optimizing for fastest possible single runs with no mistakes/ideal conditions and other people were optimizing for fastest possible farming over multiple runs with mistakes/unideal conditions, and it was just so pointlessly confrontational
That's exactly the issue, well said.
I think that’s because places like Reddit and Discord, at least in my experience, tend to self-select for the most passionate members of a community. That can be a positive thing-it's nice to have a place to discuss interests that your IRL friends don’t share-but as we’ve seen with this whole gold debacle, it can also lead to pointless arguments.
There can be the occasional asshat since this is a coop game and people will get antsy that people are playing the way that they dont like and being riskier, leaving the team or going slower than they liked. Really people just need to chill since DRG is not a game that needs optimisation
Regarding the OC grind, I think a big reason the devs structured the game as they did is to maintain a high average player count. A big selling point of DRG is its large active base, and I believe by drip-feeding the high-value rewards over a long time frame they keep players coming back to the game for longer.
A pretty smart way to prevent burn out and keep the game interesting imo. Players don't have to keep playing every single day and overclocks just give new ways to play.
it's also smart to have player count spikes in the week. the weekly reset just happened so even people who have all the OCs want to try the new deep dive
Correct me if you guys addressed this somewhere, but based on the original video, gold is only NOT worth it if you are doing optimized runs to begin with. When you are playing in pubs you are going to be going much slower in general. If the base time to complete a mission increases, but the time to mine gold and amount of gold mined remain the same, then the relative value of mining gold increases.
I recall the original video being based around solo testing as well. Taken to the extreme, an efficient 4 man run can mine the same gold in 1/4th of the time, possibly even faster if you are using something like gunner alone as your baseline. They cannot however complete missions in 1/4th the time. Even point extraction which is probably the most optimal mission type for going fast with multiple players, still has the 2 minute timer at the end that won't get any faster no matter what. Most mission types take roughly the same amount of time to at most double the time solo vs 4 player, yet mining gold costs far fewer "dwarf hours" than completing the mission.
Thats exactly what they're on about man. If you got time to spare why not. Take some shinies with you :D If you're not about min maxing your efficiency then mine whatever you want
@@HoxtonRules No it goes further than that. It's not just that you can get gold if you don't mind losing a bit of efficiency (by mining gold), it's that if you are playing the level inefficiently for whatever reason (maybe because you don't care, or maybe because you just aren't that good), gold actually BECOMES efficient.
@Sotanaht01
That's a bit like saying it's a good idea to drink your own urine if you don't have any water.
You're right, but you may be better off examining the reasons that led you to not have water in the first place.
And if you're really gung-ho about running out of water so you have an opportunity to drink piss you're just a weirdo looking for an excuse.
The fact that you can engineer a situation where mining gold is the best option you have left doesn't mean mining gold is a good option then or ever, it just means you've become desperate. Grats.
None of this is means mining gold makes you a bad person or anything. It's a video game. Do what you want.
It's just tiresome seeing so many people who become offended when you talk to them about the potential consequences of their decisions. Conversation just breaks down at that point.
Yeah I think a lot of their assumptions are off. The biggest one is just being reasonable and getting the easy to get gold with teamwork, takes seconds, gets the same amount of credits as a secondary objective.
They're saying you have to either get all the gold, which does take awhile and might not be worth it, or skip it altogether. Why? That's silly. It's not an either/or choice.
If gold took 1 swing to break, it would be worth it to mine and much more enjoyable
i like the two hit, my take would be gold = 3 to 4 credits instead of 2
@@sopito9923 it would need to be worth like 10-12 each for it to be worth it to me
I think the 2 hit actually feels good to mine. Honestly its just so low value right now you could probably buff it substantially without affecting the correct play.
@@deadlypandaghost Yeah, I’m fine with 2 hits. What they need to do is increase the value, the destruction radius, or both.
Make each unit of gold worth 5 credits (and buff compressed gold accordingly). That should honestly be sufficient.
When it comes to DRG I’m one of those people that comes back cause well I gotta do the weekly and deep dives to get all the overclocks. And that isn’t me forcing myself to get my money’s worth of the game, I enjoy the progression. Having a goal to work towards in any game often makes me enjoy said game more. Do I enjoy DRG without that goal? Of course! But knowing that I’m getting those overclocks and promoting and what not by doing missions just makes it more enjoyable for me. I can’t explain why, it just is.
Well, sure. But then you're not really who I'm talking about in that bit, there's a difference between "enjoys progression" and "is only playing because they feel like they need to get everything".
@@LazyMaybe Just like there is a difference between the OC system that disincentivises grinding a lot of hours every day or week and say Halo Infinite's that incentivises grinding for hours.
I am in the same boat, I enjoy games because of the fact that I feel like I am getting something extra along with the fun gameplay, I enjoy when I have a goal to achieve.
When it's just gameplay, each mission makes the experience more and more stale and eventually you stop having fun, in other words, you get burnt out but for me, I get burnt out a lot faster if I don't feel like I am earning anything out of it.
As for players who play a game to completion like it's a job, I have honestly never seen someone that deranged in my life, I can't imagine playing a game I only enjoy because I want to complete literally everything, the moment you see cores as a collectable, I don't know what to tell you.
I said this before on one of Axis' videos (On The Topic Of Role Play) and I'm gonna kinda paraphrase it here... The strange split in the community around gold and the generally overdone pushback from some strikes me as a 'who threw the first brick?' type question. Not the first brick in DRG, but just in general. It has long been one of my great goals to understand player psychologies and the reasons behind why some behaviors arise.
DRG in particular is a very relaxed game in the majority of cases, barring some Haz 4 situations and anything higher than it. Haz 5, modded, etc. Gaming in general, and especially shooters and other action games have long been trending toward this always-competitive sort of vibe and I've seen it push the players who just want to kick back and blast some stuff out of their favored spaces. DRG's an oasis away from that 'get good or get out' sort of vibe and like with the RP crowd who may have a few members in their lot who have been burned by fast, high skill players a few too many times - I know I certainly have been - the 'gold mining' population likely also has some of that going on, too.
So in tandem with what Lazy said about players being caught between a rock and a had place, where gold gives enjoyable feedback but is less efficient and 'getting "better" ' requires giving up that enjoyable feedback, I think that the pushback might also be coming from an ingrained - and possibly unrecognized - aversion to increasing levels of competitiveness or anything that gives a sense of it.
So who threw the first brick? In this scenario, I'd say players in other games that pushed away or otherwise ingrained a bad sense of what higher skilled players are into some of DRG's current playerbase. Between Humans being very adept at spotting and recognizing patterns, as well as logic often being cast aside in favor of emotion and irrational thinking, it wouldn't surprise me if it became known that these players in particular were conditioned to expect players who take the game more seriously to become toxic if they didn't also take the game seriously. It certainly took me a while to get over my fear of playing in public lobbies in DRG because other games had conditioned me to expect much more toxicity in similar situations.
The DRG community doesn't exist in a vacuum, of course, and I do think that to at least better understand some of the quirks we have here, we also need to look at what we are also surrounded by, and see how that might be affecting the players that come here. Civil conversation and advocating for equal respect of players, regardless of their playstyle preferences is always a good step.
Loved the discussion you two had, gonna listen to this a few more times for sure! Was like music to my ears. Keep up the awesome work!
this is exactly it, the hate and vitriol i receive for playing suboptimally or doing things i enjoy, and more importantly, that better players are able to actively ruin my experience by virtue of their superior efficiency, has lead to significant aversion to optimization or number seeking behavior, i enjoy the gameplay and everything serves that goal, so exp credits or materials are only prioritized as much as i need to gain the next upgrade, overclock, ect and anything else seems toxic and seems to be missing the point
I think it somehow just came to mind one day and this one person starts to ask about efficiency and the conversation started rolling. Then there just naturally started to pop up sides in this conversation. Those sides are now "mining Gold is fun to me" and "Mining Gold isn't fun to me and here is why". I think it wasn't rlly throwing Stones but somehow one Side didn't understand the others points. I am on the Side "I don't like mining Gold" Don't force me, but if you want I can spend a platform. Or mb the conversation was also fueled by the passive sabotage of mining Gold in Haz5 known or unknown when Scout/Engi should focus on Nitra idk. It is not just the Value of Gold but also what priority it has to players. I think it was the Haz5 thing. Not all Gold mining is bad, but you should know what has priority.
No, it’s people sprinting ahead and smashing mission progression events to speed run even if it will wipe the team.
This isn’t a matter of skill, at all.
@@hokuhikene and what’s the priority based on?
A spreadsheet?
Or the intended game design?
Because optimization and intended gameplay should never be conflated.
Your art teams responsibility in any game is to convey information to the player.
Gold being valueless in a game about mining is not what 99% of people are going to think.
You might as well make gold instantly kill the player, and then defend that game design.
RIP to the silly dwarves that get mad at me for mining gold yet will watch a 40 minute video about whether or not to mine gold.
12:00 i am in this situation
But in the discussion of "tryhards vs casuals" i feel its very possible to have a balance inbetween. I pretty much always fast deposit, but i wont really do other animation cancels since i find them annoying to do. I make loads of builds and try to optimize them, but ill use the GK2 over the M1000 since i like how it feels lmao
If gold wasn't automatically turned into credits and you needed to use gold to purchase things, like gold skin color, this conversation wouldn't be happening so intensely
Agreed, turn gold into a crafting mineral and let you into the mineral trader early only selling gold before unlocking the rest as per normal. Perhaps it could also be used for some kind of tech since gold makes a good conductor.
Probably just too valuable to give to a dwarf from the companies standpoint.
Imagine if the statues in memorial hall had to be made with gold you mined, that would be nice, also like cosmetic stuff like you said
What I dislike is when I want to mine gold because I'm the dwarfsonification of a mineral hoarder, but my Scout and/or Engi are unwilling to platform/grapple to and mine gold.
I also really dislike the 'just sell minerals' advice, because I feel like a lot of greybeards just forget how hard the grind is early on when it comes to minerals. We need them for everything, we can't just sell of spare ones when we don't have spare ones to sell.
yeah, people really refuse to admit of how grindy this game is sometimes
The problem there is that you want *others* to go out of their way to play *your* way. Obviously that's going to raise tension. "I wish everyone just played my way." lol Yeah no kidding.
Anyway, I was a "greenbeard" when I learned of "just sell minerals" and it worked out perfectly fine for me.
@@lein5300 how on earth did you have enough minerals to craft OC’s, pay for promotions and buy weapons and upgrades for them?
@@lein5300 "hey, can you place a platform, so i can mine that gold vein?" "NO, you're forcing ME to play YOUR way, you're so problematic"
@@Collisto2435 Promotions are cheap early on, and patience I guess? Maybe it's just me, but I'm not the type of person that feels like they *have* to have everything *right now.* For those type of people maybe it is an issue. lol
But gold doesn't fix that either anyway, so you're still going to have to have patience. That's the nature of grindy games.
Honestly, I think all the hate towards "don't bother mining gold" people comes from the playerbase's perception (warranted or not) that these people are "cringy toxic LoL speedruner types", i.e. things the overwhelming majority of players simply doesn't care about. And honestly? When you talk about "getting better at the game", the playerbase does not hear you say "aiming better, killing enemies with less ammo use, surviving missions more often, or better use of mechanics". They hear you say "play the game like you're on meth because anything slower is doing it wrong". That is IMHO the real problem - a miscommunication.
That’s not a miscommunication. That’s people who are unjustified jerks enforcing a stereotype all on their own, who are even still jerks if they were CORRECT. If a whole subset of the community WANTED to play like they’re on meth… they have EVERY RIGHT TO. That’s not a communication. The people being toxic towards their stereotype targets are just… the bad guys. Its entirely on them alone to clean up their act and up to us as a community to shun them, frankly.
Also because the game attracts a lot of casuals, and casuals often dont care about the hidden stuff. Any time real game numbers are brought up they become dismissive because 'youre a tryhard', as if that somehow invalidates the statement in question.
Wow. Instead of bickering like actual children because you guys disagree on a very minute and generally small issue, you guys actually did a collab together to bring both your evidences forward and had a decent discussion about the topic at hand. Very good shit yet again by this community.
I don't think this covers the issue fully, could you upload maybe another 530 minutes of gold discourse, to really nail it down 🤔
Which is more efficient: minig gold, or spending 10000000 hours discussing if it's worth it minig gold? (just kidding, please continue. it's modern distribution of labor: some people waste thier time mining gold, some people waste thier time discussing gold)
The worst thing you can do in the middle of a game, efficiency wise, is get into a discussion of whether it's worth it to mine gold or not. Doesn't matter whether you are selling or keeping your minerals, mining gold or not, if you're standing about butting heads over it, the only winner is the bugs!
Which is why you don’t have your art team use GOLD as the in-game representation of worthless in a game about exploration and mining.
You’re just going to turn every match into a solo speed run, with players spamming progress events even if it wipes the team.
27:30 Regarding the "don't buy minerals at 150" statement, I don't agree with it.
Quite often, players end up with wildly disproportionate mineral amounts - probably, all of us are familiar with having '21 Jadiz, 34015 Croppa, 7 Enor Pearl'. The consumption of those minerals, however, is somewhat balanced, as shown in the latest AxisKronos's video.
So, in cases like this, I think it's perfectly fine to convert the excess of one mineral to another, even at the 1/3 conversion rate.
To be honest, I don't care about the gold argument either way. I mine gold sometimes, I don't like selling my minerals since I still have other objectives I need to progress towards, I'm mostly focused around the build meta of this game since I find that much more engaging that raising my level. People are taking this debate way too seriously, this isn't like a PvP game where some people may have a point against you in a competitive sense, just play nice with everyone and it'll be all fine.
Something I do care more about is the overclock discussion. Something I should establish first is that I'm not a very intrinsically motivated person, I need an outside bit of incentivisation in order for a game to keep me coming back. With that in mind, for the past 5 months or so, I've been doing every weekly core hunt and deep dive to grind out all the cores and overclocks I can. This begun as me trying to get Light-Weight Magazines, Magnetic Pellet Alignment and later on Cycle Overload for the Warthog but soon progressed into me trying to get them all because I was getting very bad RNG and had already collected a lot of them. I got every OC for the Shard and most of the OCs for all of Engie's other weapons before I got those 3 OCs.
At the time, I was very frustrated, it was like I couldn't catch a break. I'm not huge on the Stubby and the Lok-1 is decent, but didn't have the same damage output/range/ammo efficiency of the Warthog, on top of me just preferring how the Warthog feels to use. However, in retrospect, I'm very glad I continued on because I found new ways to enjoy the game, I got better and even met some good friends through it. In that time I grew to love classes and guns that I otherwise wouldn't've if the journey had been shorter. So while I entirely understand people who don't want to grind for OCs as much and I definitely agree that there needs to be a faster way to get them, I can't say I'm that bothered about it.
I'm not really sure what the answer to this dilemma would be to be honest. They could add a 4th way of obtaining cores and OCs but that could risk bloating the game, they could give you 2 OCs per weekly core hunt and deep dive but that might be a little overkill. This is not something I should really be deciding on since I'm already done with it and it doesn't particularly bother me anyhow. I'll let the people whom have a bigger issue with it than me make ideas on it.
I think they just need a reliable way to take RNG out of the occasion, even if it's very limited. That way getting the OC you want is a sure thing and when you get it by chance it's a pleasant surprise rather than relief that you can move on to the next class you want OCs for.
Definitely, the OC discussion is a really important one because it's something that seems to hold off a lot of players from enjoying the game as much as they could have. A suggestion I saw was using the error cubes as a way to get particular OCs, which may be nice, although playing seeded missions could make this obsolete and easy to exploit. This game has been a wonderful experience, and I've met some of my favorite friends playing it. Having put in like 30-50 hours a week into this game during the summer break, I can safely say I've enjoyed about 98% of it, with the only frustrations really coming from not getting some of the silly OCs that I wanted to try out for the longest time. The only other frustration has come from needing certain minerals and not having the biome that I want on the mission select menu XD
Other than that, this game has been a delight to play, although it's more of a social experience, since doing things solo is not too fun in my opinion, unless I'm getting the last mission out of the way for an assignment while waiting in vc to play with my friends. I hope you continue to enjoy the game and that you get all the OCs you want, flamethrower has been treating me like crap lately, only have the lighter tanks OC even after 600+ hours of playing these last few months.
For me, it isn't that the grind for overclocks is the only thing keeping me playing, it's that three weeks of getting every core that week and only getting 2 overclocks I actually wanted is demoralizing as hell, and the fact that I just have to WAIT for a week IRL in order for RNJesus to probably fxxx me over yet again makes me *not* want to play.
I really want to binge-play with certain overclocks, because I love this game, but the grind itself is what's killing my motivation, rather than that being the thing that keeps me playing.
A year is 52 weeks. The 21 minimum weeks to get every single overclock is SIX MONTHS IRL, which is ridiculous! Especially if there's some weeks where you just had crap luck and couldn't beat the Elite Deep Dive (I'm not a God at DRG by any stretch), because that means it'll take even LONGER. From weeks I've already not gotten every core I could, I'm already looking at a 7+ month grind, that I'm only 2 months into. Grinding in games is a huge turn-off for me, and being forced to wait 5 months IRL until my crap luck gives me the OC I want as the last possible one just makes me want to play something else.
100% this. The overclock RNG system was never ideal, but has gotten significantly worse with the addition of new weapons. The chances of actually getting an interesting and game changing overclock that you want are way too low. There definitely needs to be a way to occasionally bypass the overclock RNG (My personal recommendation would be Error Cube forging)
Yeah, I'm at the tail end of the grind, and out of most of my friend group, I have the most hours in this game by a longshot. 600-700 hours just since the first season of the battlepass, on-and-off doing every weekly thing, and only just now, after getting just about every OC in the game, did i finally get the ones that I wanted to get. I wanted the funny fat boy, hoverclock, special powder, plasma burster missiles, blistering necrosis, six shooter, goo bomber, neurotoxin payload, etc. etc....
All of my friends that play the game got their favorite overclocks immediately, and it was somewhat frustrating that only after getting 500 hours in the game did I even get my first goddamn Flamethrower overclock. Don't get me wrong--I love this game, but it feels like when getting an overclock, could I at least choose the weapon I'm going to unlock it for? It feels like a gacha game at times. My favorite part of this game is that it's a social experience, my friends get together every couple of days and we have fun playing, running silly builds for hard missions, getting drunk on haz 5 lethal enemies + elite threat eliminations, and doing silly stuff. We talk and get to know each other, and at the same time just enjoy the funny dwarf game because we all find it fun, and we're all modestly competent. This is the only FPS game that I've ever taken seriously outside of the Metroid Prime games on the wii, since most competitive FPS games have just been a depressing and toxic mess to get into, and I didn't like it, but this--DRG is just a fun co-op game, where the incentive is to help your team and strategize, and you have the freedom to play the game how you want to play it. The meta doesn't matter as long as you're having fun IMO. If you're not having fun *and* running a shitty build, and getting angry that the game is too hard, maybe take some time to build your guns differently so you're not getting caught with your pants down, try something new, enjoy yourself. If you enjoy playing the meta, by all means play neurotoxin payload+fear. It doesn't and shouldn't matter how you want to play the game, and if you're coming into somebody else's game just to tell them they're playing "wrong" you're an asshole. Sorry, I have a tendency to rant.
This game is great, just honestly, seeing some of the toxic people in this game on top of not getting the silly overclocks that I want to test out has made it underwhelming at times. But now that I'm nearing the point where I'm getting all the weapon overclocks forged and everything that I want, I'm starting to have a lot more fun playing, just building silly dwarves and taking what I think would be fun to play for whatever mission. Definitely Nano Tox is right, error cubes could totally be used for forging a specific overclock that you want--and if that makes error cubes more rare--so be it. If not for getting a specific overclock, getting to choose which weapon you want the overclock to be for would be cool for the error cube. It would have made my fire driller less unbearable (I'm still only running the ammo OC cuz that's the only one I have).
Exactly. Don't forget that those OCs also require minerals to forge. Missions are around 20 minutes each, and you also need those minerals for other things.
This game is a massive timesink for no good reason. I'm 200 hours in, and I only started gathering OCs recently, because only at this point I'm comfortable enough progression wise. Because only after 200 hours I can be finally done with all weapon upgrade and promotion grind to get to arguably the most fun part about the game
Same, at least it coudl somewhat even out the distribution of the overclocks, after 4-5 months i still have absolutly fucking nothing for both cryocannon and hurricane. For the past 3 weeks i have gotten nothing but shit. Oh how gratefull i am for chain hit on subata my dear rngeesus.
Download a 100% save file
Regarding the weekly reset and the extended grind: I'm someone who often only gets 2 to 6 hours play per week. I've been playing since march but have probably only done half a dozen deep dives. Regular missions are quicker and easier to commit to.
I feel that at least if I get the chance to do my core hunt then I have the feeling I've kept up with my progression and havent really missed out on anything, and it does bring me back every week pretty much and is probably part of the reason ive kept up regular play.
I agree that doubling the core reward could be a good idea, since there are so many now, but nevertheless I think the long grind gives the feeling that casual players arent really punished, which I appreciate.
I think we can all agree that this whole is gold worth debate is friggin stupid. Just play the game the way you want to, and don't judge anyone for playing the way they want too.
I think that gold is valuable. It generates alot of youtube content, so there is your value.
Can we just get a new stat breakdown video? I'm kinda tired of this already.
For real
This. I only care about the combat and guns in this game. Not credits, XP, nor promotions.
Ok so mineing gold is not efficient I understand that
I’m still gonna mind it because I like the sound it makes
You👏are👏valid👏
Oh sh*t. here we go again
I think maybe a system that grants a higher reward multiplier based off of how many minerals you collected could be interesting. Like some bonus modifier for collecting more than the required amount of primary objectives/secondaries/gold etc, call it like “Overtime Bonus” or something. My friends and I often find that doing the required amount of stuff on Haz 5 to be pretty dull, but the potential value of totally clearing a cave just isn’t worth it in terms of time efficiency. Even EDDs and double warning labels haz 5 aren’t really challenging anymore, but I’m not really interested in downloading mods to change the base game. I hope they do something to optionally increase the difficulty of the game even further but also make it worthwhile to increase the difficulty to that level. Maybe some “endless” deep dive style game mode with crafting minerals and no difficulty cap could be interesting, the goal being to survive as long as you can and the longer you survive the bigger the pay out.
Great video though, really enjoyed listening. Next weapon breakdown when? I need another hit, don’t hold out on me man…
Its hilarious how players can take a casual game so seriously. I have no problem with players doing that in their own game, but pushing their own playstyle onto others is really weird. For players which treat this as a big deal to the point of arguments, stop being weird.
Holy shit crossover of the century
A patch of gold takes 2 hits to be mined, and that's the only reason why I usually choose to avoid grinding through all the veins on the map.
As far as "mah optimisation" goes, I don't care. I'm pretty sure most people don't - DRG is not a job and you're not doing shifts. It's a game, and is to be enjoyed for the reason of pure visual and aural gratification that it produces. If you like hitting shiny glowy bois, then do it. Or don't - it's no rocket science.
I remember playing a haz 5 mission where I was the host. And we had a crasus detonator. I asked people not to mine the gold since it would take too much time, but I was ignored. So I went to do the objectives, got all the morkite minus 15 remaining and 9/10 flies while team was still mining the damn gold. I told them to leave the god damn thing and help me finish the mission, for which I was accused of not helping with the gold. Ffs I completed the whole mission all by myself and got passive aggressive responses at the end. It's crazy how people just lose their minds over the bad game system.
For a crassus, because all of the gold is concentrated in one location, the time/reward calculation is actually more favorable than in the case of gold veins. Since the advantages of ignoring gold are very slight to begin with, mining the full crassus crater is likely more efficient.
I regret to inform you of this, but you got angry at your team for playing optimally.
@@omnitroph1501 You realize that I basically finished the mission in time it took them to mine it? If they were helping me instead we'd be done with it significantly faster. Also it's a good etiquette to follow the host, if they ask you to leave the gold you leave, if they ask you to mine it, mine it.
A thing to consider is that this entire conversation really only applies to solo play, which I would guess the majority of people do not play.
Once multiplayer enters the conversation the biggest strength of the argument to not mining gold for a small potential XP gain goes out the window because you can not speed up the mission duration in multiplayer nearly as much. Think of it this way, if someone on your team is way ahead of you mining some of the last bit of morkite you need, carrying the last aquarq back, building out the last refinery pipe you need built, etc, there is literally nothing you can do to change the speed in which the mission will finish, you either stand around and wait, or you potentially mine any gold that hasnt been mined yet. These types of scenarios happens way more often than you think and because of how small of the XP gain was in solo play to begin with, you are no doubt losing out on both XP and money in almost every multiplayer game if you dont mine gold when you would be just waiting around, and the more people in the group, the more this applies.
For me personally, most of the time I dont mine it because im lazy and I dont really care either way
Except the game is about mining and exploration.
It’s not about speed running every objective and wiping your team because of what you read on a spreadsheet.
The art team shouldn’t choose gold as the in-game representation of valueless.
I disagree with your presentation here of including the in-game audio of your B-rolling footage especially since you were talking and had music playing in the background. I found the inclusion of the irrelevant footage's audio to be very distracting. It's not necessary to include the audio because that's not the focus of the video.
Sorry for the nitpick but I felt something needed to be said about it. Keep making awesome videos!
I’m glad you guys are doing this. Some people (let’s be honest, many people) seem to look at the gold debate purely in black-and-white terms. Hopefully hearing you two have a nuanced discussion will put that notion to rest.
It’s also just cool to hear Axis chatting with another DRG-tuber again. I’ve missed his drop pod casts.
If there was a "level me up faster" brew that increased the value of gold that could shift the favor and give players effectively a leveling boost.
Or if the "Gold Rush" modifier was changed to instead increase the rewards of gold then mining it could be conditionally an attractive option.
"The big bad tryhards are trying to ruin our fun" seems like a pretty dismissive and reductive re-interpretation, and maybe precisely what they're talking about?
EDIT: :"Usually that's said in a pretty measured way" yeah, so this is why people get argumentative. What a disgusting generalization that both plays to emotion in your favor and generalizes about everyone's experiences to support your argument. Regardless of if you mine gold or not, you really should not speak on behalf of other people's experiences, good or bad.
Like, the only reason this is even remotely a topic of public discussion is that it comes up, and "Hey you're playing the game in a way that is sub-optimal" may be factually accurate, but is always a shitty thing to say to someone, even in the most generous interpretation, in a co-op public game with zero stakes.
Final fantasy 14 has this argument every three months on reddit about using DPS trackers to harrass other players about their sub-optimal rotations in public matchmade dungeons.
I don't care about time-efficiency B.S., I have TONS of overclocks and cosmetics and promotions to spend credits on, and IT'S LITERALLY MONEY HANGING ON THE WALLS. I will ALWAYS mine gold, even if it's just to flex when I have already baught everything I want.
DRG is my go to relaxation-shooter, and I've always loved how fresh the game feels after I watch videos like this. The environments are engaging, the shooting feels snappy and fun, and the depth of the game gives back what you put in. I usually ignore gold in games because I feel like gold can be its own objective once you start to run low on credits. Otherwise, it can feel like a drag to spend time on it.
Thanks for making this content guys, I appreciate you two speaking your minds! :D
This is incredibly fascinating! Online PVE games have long had the rumor that the playerbase that follow those types of games are obsessed with optimization and an objective way of play. From MMO players forcing their teammates to take specific builds, otherwise they get kicked out of the guild to a lot of Mann vs Machine players in TF2 being prone to kick anyone not following an acceptable strategy (also, see taco.tf). While this also goes for PVP games, there is a tendency to excuse it (slightly) more there given its competitive nature and the opposition being actual human beings on an equal playing field. In PVE however, you find it gets frowned upon much more given the stigma that it's just PVE and there is no rank or MMR to worry about. Now a lot of that has to do with how the game is percieved. MMOs are mostly known for being games for a hardcore audience where the gameplay is more rigid and it's all about optimization. Games like TF2 and DRG however have a lot of goofy aspects. They are known for including silly weapons, being comedic and more about goofing off with your friends. There's a reason valve focused on CS:GO as the competitive game and not TF2 after all. Not because TF2 had no competitive viability or a lacking player base, but because TF2 was never seen as the hardcore competetive game that CS:GO is often seen as among most people.
Now, I am not saying DRG isn't deep and doesn't have many layers of intricacies. Just that the way most talk about DRG it's the space dwarf game where they yell "rock and stone" and your shotgun launches you like a rocket launcher. So it naturally attracts those players that like the goofy aspects of video games. When there are so many communities where you get flamed for not making the optimal decisions, having a game where that seemingly matters less is like a haven! All those people burned by other multiplayer games seeking refuge in DRG, where it's commonly accepted to stop the mission to spam ping a mushroom or a piece of gold (despite of how much time is of the essence in DRG), where it's normal that at the end of a mission the resident driller throws a C4 at the drop pod potentially killing an ally. It's like a safe space, they finally have the game that they truly wanted. An online game with options, where fucking around is encouraged and it's possible to win without crunching numbers. Then suddenly, someone suggests that there is an optimal way to play the game, and that say using a specific overclock actually reduces your effectiveness. The player is reminded of all the time someone has flamed them or kicked them from the lobby just because they didn't follow "the meta". It's scary to think their safe haven might be threatened, so they lash out. Seeing that there are multiple people resisting this, i think subconsciously they almost formed a mentality trying to shame people for playing optimally. Bringing in words like "tryhards". "sweat-lords" or the classic "not a real dwarf", much like how in other games where players playing weird builds where referred to as "noobs", "idiots" or "throwers". In reality, i think DRGs community has gone extreme in the other direction. I remember when i first started playing, i would ping compressed gold not because i wanted to but because i was afraid I would get kicked otherwise. While that might sound unreasonable, i think the way the DRG community is portrayed almost gives it a cult like appearance, just with memes instead of meta. In reality, i think this a most curious phenomenon! The DRG community so adamant about being the best community (compare this to say the Dota community that willingly calls itself horrible and shrugs it off), that it gives it an unnerving edge. The first time you see everyone going "rock and stone" it's charming, but by the hundreth time you start to slowly want to back away. It's endlessly interesting to me that when people talk about adding healing utility to DRG, the first response is always "but then people will flame you if you aren't using it" rather than actually discussing if it even fits within the game.
I think the devs have embraced this to a certain extent because they see what the larger community wants. People were more excited about the devs adding a voice line where MC gets pissed at the players for spam pinging the mushroom then any of the experimental balance changes. Popular videos of DRG (mostly made from people who play it once and never again) reinforce the goofy aspects, since that is "clearly" what people are here for. This is almost a dream come true for many devs, because weapon balancing isn't inherently a very fun part of game development (what is, amiright) but just tweaking numbers little by little to see where you can get that balanced sweetspot is not nearly as flashy as other aspects. Also, some developers find it much more exciting to work on new stuff rather than reiterating on the old stuff for the umpteenth time. I can't speak for GSG, but it is a common mentality in game development. If you can just make a couple changes to glaring issues without having to finecomb through every little balancing issue in a game as vast as DRG and the community at large seems fine with it, then you're cruising. Now, there are enough theorycrafters and optimizers in the community that i think there will always be someone out there pushing for balance. But with how much the community showers GSG in praise i hope it doesn't got to their head. I respect GSG alot, not just because i like their game quite a lot, but also because of how passive they are with monetazation. Though a game lacking a shitty monetization system does absolutely not make it immune to criticism, i refuse to let my standards sink that low. Still, with how one of the devs reacted to the "liquid morkite" meme, i wonder if there is some annoyance with how DRG is almost looked more as a meme than an actual game.
TFL;DR edition:
Most online games have communities that flame people for being unoptimal or "playing wrong", i think DRG is a place where everyone who has been on the recieving end of that can go to play the game however they want and as such react viciously when they spot something that reminds them of earlier flaming (like optimal builds or bad equipment). Resulting in a community that is almost equally volatile, just instead of using the right equipment, it's about having the right mentality.
Best thing said in this video was respect the host. I play in a similar style. If they want to strip mine I'll oblige, if they want to speed run I'll follow and I'll always wait for the host to "r" in chat before hitting the escape button.
I personally don't touch gold on my runs, exception of a odd power swing when I'm running by.
Marvel: infinity war is the most ambitious crossover in history
Lazymaybe and AxisKronos:
2:58
This is a big reason why this is the only DRG channel I watch, you provide information and allow the viewer to form their own opinion instead of spoonfeeding it to them. I'm particularly tired of seeing people parrot AxisKronos' opinion on cryo minelets.
I've just crossed the threshold into Leg-1 for all of my dwarves (I level them evenly). I have all the cosmetic shop items for each of them, and I did not optimize my spending with phazyonite. I don't go out of my way to mine gold, I don't speedrun, I play double-xp almost every chance I get, I don't sell minerals, I've never been short on resources for a promotion, I've stopped doing my weekly assignments unless I'm playing with friends who also want to do them, and I still have 1.5 million credits in the bank and about 10k of every crafting mineral. This makes me very confident that, unless you are purely optimizing for xp gain/mission time, you won't hit a gold shortage.
Those who take the time to mine every vein can do so if they enjoy it, but there's no valid argument for it with regard to progression.
The "word of god" towards a great figure in the community reminds me of how in Risk of Rain 2 "the 5 minute rule" became, like, a staple, and people are diwided on those who play as they want and decide right and people that will crucify them for not playing "as optimally as famous youtuber said".
Like, its not a bad concept to follow, it is a good one, but people just dont make their own opinions based on their gaming experience, and take it as a HOLY LAW OF PLAYING THE GAME RIGHT. And it just gets... really toxic talking about this, DRG has its easier cause gold is basically side side objective, but in ROR its about main gameplay loop.
Ironic how the “Lazy said so.” thing applies to their argument: it was lazy. Which is hilarious because HAVE YOU SEEN THIS GUY? He is the opposite of lazy in the best possible way (nerd wise).
I really enjoy that ya'll acknowledge the differing play styles and objectives and that the final takeaway is be nice to one another.
the bell curve meme is kinda where I'm at. I loved gold at the start because I needed the extra money for those weapon and gear upgrades. While they are peanuts to an older player, they add up quickly for new players that want to find the class they like the most. Now I'm gray and old and remember how much that extra cash means to a greenbeard that is grinding out weapon perks and I stuff my pockets whenever I can for the team.
I don't think this is a mining, progression, opinion or even gold issue. It's an AxisKronos issue. To begin with, who does a response video... this is not the DRG rap battle. Then have a look at his comment section and compare it to yours. There's a difference between stating ones opinion and promoting a healthy discourse to in contrast dealing in absolutes. When you deal in absolutes and fashion yourself a memelord when people try to argue with you, obviously they will react in kind, birds of a feather and stuff. Nothing good will come of something like that so you should've just let this entire topic go.
Agreed. Additionally, he talks about how so many people in his videos comment sections disagree with him on this. I watch most of his DRG videos and the comment sections are much more full of sycophants praising his skill and agreeing with everything he says.
Just seems like he has an ego problem with how he responds to people.
@@elgringosupremo Thing is, referring to his comment section, he is already starting this video with "how much he has to laugh about his comment section". That should tell people how much he values their input/what he thinks of them. Skill is then again, an entirely different can of worms. In a game that is all about you clicking on bugs that can do nothing but crawl towards you in a straight line "skill" is something highly subjective. But that's just my opinion. I'm not the one telling you that if your opinion differs from mine your intellect is probably wanting. All in all I personally have stopped watching his videos a long time ago, it is undisputable that he has a excellent game knowledge that probably stems from a large amount of experience but presentation is everything. And I just don't have those masochistic tendencies that allow me to enjoy AxisKronos videos.
I just don’t care, I do what’s fun and the only place I optimize is with my builds, and even then I have a lot for fun and a lot for optimization plus some that balance the two (please give us more slots PLLLEEAASSSEEE).
I doubt most players are playing efficiently enough for saving time by not mining gold to be relevant.
And I say this as someone who doesn't mine gold. Mostly because I don't enjoy mining gold. The value of gold is part of that but the other part is that gold takes 2 hits to mine. It doesn't feel fun hitting this gold for a minute or 2, twice as long as Nitra and Morkite, then realize that you got 30 gold or 60 credits. I rather do something fun like mission objectives and exploring the level.
It really is the mining part mostly for me. I'll pick up loose gold as I walk by it. I'll break a golden lootbug to get the gold. I'll ignore Crassus gold, but also kite a regular bulk to Crassus gold and pick up the chunks.
I think buffing gold in a way that feels like the time swinging a pickaxe at it is worth your time is a good idea.
As for OC grind. I don't mind the time gate so much, I just want there to be more ways to reduce the RNG for the OCs. Even picking by weapon instead of just class when writing blank cores would be fine.
I have no issue if you mine gold or you don't, in fact I don't mine gold a lot of the time, but I think some of the knee jerk reactions are caused by wording. like at 19:10 , Kronos says "I've never met a game community so adverse to improving at the game." as an outside statement, that is harsh. Even if not mining gold is an improvement in efficiency, people might take as "you're not good at this game if you mine gold." or "you're against being good at this game if you think you should mine gold." Someone misunderstanding the point of the statement, especially one being told they should change the way they play from how they like to play it, could just knee jerk into saying those "you're just a leaf lover" type statements.
It's decently clear that this isn't what AxisKronos thinks, given how he says things along the line of "if you want to play that way go ahead, but just give me the same treatment as well," but someone seeing red could ignore that and go get pitchforks and torches.
20:35
Can't believe you forgot the other facts people are weird about, such as the GK2 being objectively bad, or Double Barrel being worse than Stuffed Shells.
Imo it'd make sense to add more stuff that is really expensive to buy (like really really expensive) but drastically increase the value of mining gold. They could also make gold ore take only take 1 pickaxe swing to break so it's less annoying and time consuming. People who don't want to mine it can simply sell their minerals for a high price but the others who do like mining it have a nicer time doing so and more of an incentive for it. I've never really been in a situation where I had to actively try to farm for gold because I had too little to buy/forge sth and so I never really see the need to mine it even tough I would want to.
tldr: Drastically increase Gold value, Make it take 1 hit to mine, add some cool stuff that's incredibly expensive so you have a reason to mine it.
My friend likes to say, "I optimize for fun per hour." I think it's good to have something in the game that's a simple pleasure and calls back to the game's roots, but in such a way that it doesn't feel mandatory for speed players or anyone else who finds it too repetitive. It's harmless.
I like the idea of mining gold being a thing you can do if there's nothing else to do and you're waiting on another player or a mission timer. I often find myself enjoying the self imposed challenge of trying to mine gold during the extraction countdown of refining or aquarks mining, even if its just for a moment until my inventory fills up.
Ideally, gold mining would be more engaging, and inventory capacity for gold specifically should be doubled(makes enough sense since dwarves love gold). Something like a rhythm based mining mechanic would be cool, where, after the first hit, the gold shimmers halfway to when you should hit again. Then, depending on the timing of hits 2 and 3, the 3rd hit would mine gold in a large area, scaling with how well you timed the hits, with excellent timing mining the whole vein. It would make mining gold more exciting and less tedious.
Would love some grenade deep analysis after season 3 comes out!
9:34 Completely agree.
Personally when i play, if i can reach the gold without any traversal tool and i dont have to go out of my way to get it, i will take a few swings at it, carving out the girthiest slice out of the center of it.
Also if i dont have time, i will often power attack it as i run by.
I mine gold because I like to roleplay as a hulli hoarder 👍
Lazy this was a great collab, I'm bias since Axis is a friend but I love your viewpoint and calm approach. Good balance to his mania. 😉 Would love to see some you in a droppod cast of his someday and hear more about you. 👍🏻
Solution - play with Bosco. He is happy with you either you mine gold or skip it
I rate this video 2 out of 2 pedantic nerds
Well done
I'm glad that you guys made this video, because I've been going insane trying to talk to people on Reddit. I don't mind people not agreeing with me, but I just wish there was an actual discussion. Instead there's a massive circlejerk of people going around telling each other just how wholesome they are.
Also, on an unrelated note, love the ending to the video
I'm usualy mining all the gold out of accomplishment sake, but willing to skip golden crator after crassus detonator, because how long and inconvinient it is to mine it. Agreeing with people who saying that gold should much be rarer but more valuable.
Dat outro tho
From credit perspective gold might not be worth mining. It's also a little tedious to mine because it needs two hits. Personally I mine gold because I like mining.
Bottom line do whatever you find fun, that's what video games are for right?
I have dwarf OCD. I must mine the gold.
Putting all this into consideration, I will no longer be mining, the new dwarf moneymaking scheme is sandwich dealing
even with all overclocks (and cosmetics) unlocked I still enjoy game. From time to time I experiment build and may stick with it for good.
I don't really care about efficiency I just want to mine stuff. I'm a simple dwarf, I see shiny - I dig said shiny. I'm just a hoarder who likes mining and hates selling stuff
(When I found out about gold being bad, I was kinda sad, but I expected it and I'm totally fine with people ignoring it)
Just means there's more gold for you to mine in a team of 4 while everyone else is doing objectives instead lol
It's not bad. It is "not optimally efficient when grinding for xp or credits with intent". If you're just playing in a random lobby, without excessive communication or focus on speed, it doesn't make much of a difference whether you mine it or not.
@@ToxNano Yep. That's the big elephant people keep ignoring, you can't guarantee the time efficiency needed if you play even semi-casually. If anything, convenient gold can be seen as insurance for bad time efficiency. We're not even getting into the variance present in how much mineral you can mine while keeping time efficiency up.
I mine gold, I skip gold. Read the room and don't be a dweeb.
The way I see the Gold isn't so much as how much it's worth but whether or not it's worth the risk. I generally mine what I see but depending on the mission it might be best to just skip the gold and get out of dodge (Mainly in Haz5 Missions with Swarmageddon, Shield Disruption, and Rival Pressence). On Haz1-3 (and DD for the most part) I'll simply so it just because of the fact that nothing on that difficulty is deadly enough to pose an actual threat to me (That and the rewards aren't as high as Haz4 and higher missions), but on Haz4-5 and EDD I have to quickly decide if it's worth taking or not, especially during a massive Swarms.
I care more about actually completing the mission (and yes this includes leaving Dwarves behind) than thinking about whether or not it's worth mining the Gold I skipped and selling minerals. You can't be a rich Dwarf if you got eaten by Bugs or gunned down by Robots.
(And to those who post links to videos to prove themselves right, whether it actually is or not.. go touch grass before I lob a Fatboy at you, and kick you if I'm the Host. Let people play the bloody game, don't go full Redditor just because you want a ego boost or some other crap. Uncle Nukington isn't gonna take that nonsense.)
part one bullion
ITS ME!!! IM THE ONE WOMAN IN THE AUDIENCE!!! YIPPIE!!!!
For fuck sake.
Really only mine gold when waiting for team/ drippod/ or it’s in my face
Don’t go out of my way or during egg hunts and escort to get gold bc of current objectives being s u r v i v e
You're obviously not greedy enough to be greybeard my friend :P
I enjoy the moment to moment, but after getting a star on each dwarf and unlocking all the guns, I really struggle to choose a mission without an assignment. I've been grinding hard to get to 100 so I have a new assignment for armor that I'm doing tonight after work. So I very much enjoy being made to wait for overclocks and not grinding them out in a month or two
So the big takeaway is that they should probably buff gold's value in game. I mine gold because there is a certain catharsis to mining it.
That ending is pure comedy gold =]
Just what the doctor ordered.
I'm glad the beef is settled and we can get back into weapon breakdowns. I'm starting to have withdrawals.
I don't think people mine gold because of the "sound" or the "feels" (a least not average players)... is a resource that will give you credits and xp... without doing any calculations, everybody will take it
I think that gold should at least, like nitra, take one swing to mine. They come in veins that are as big as nitra, but take twice as long to get off the wall.
Feel the weight, ̶e̶x̶i̶l̶e̶ miner.
I always mine gold because I need money to buy bismor. I'm out of bismor.
I don't mine gold only if I physically can't, like if I'm swarmed in an elite deep dive
Maybe the best would be to make gold more credit efficient and less xp efficient
I hate autocorrect
Bruh Black Mesa spoilers 💀
well if i understood your gold video correctly its 100% worth it for newerish players who still need raw credits and materials mods/overclocks etc.
I see *Gold*
I mine *Gold*
I *Rock* and *Stone*
idk if anyone else has said something like this or if its been addressed in the past, but what problems could come up if gold's credits value was supercharged so it was easily more time efficient for credits to get as much gold as possible, but as a tradeoff make it give very little or even zero xp so it has a clear division of grab for cash, skip for levels?
I would really love to see another conversation between you two about general overclock effectiveness. I know you said you don't like tier lists but it would be interesting to hear you both discuss what you think is generally good or not and why.
This mincraft mod is crazy bro
you see Mr Powers, I love GOOOOOLD
the fortunate thing is that the difference is minimal enough to where it doesn’t matter too much, so even though I love the feeling of mining gold despite reaching the point in time about 500hrs in where I have a steady 500k credits and a mineral supply both of which will never decline as I only have promotions and overclocks to buy (almost done with OCs too) i’m obviously not gonna be rude to those who love optimization.
If you like mining gold and have fun doing it, who cares if you’re only very slightly inefficient?
If you like optimizing for max XP, or max credits by selling minerals since you don’t need them as much in the mid to late game anymore, go right ahead.
Either side threatening to kick the other from their server is precisely what we as a community should avoid. From what I’ve seen, though, this is rare. Thankfully as one of the most chill PVE communities out there I don’t see very much toxicity and I have games where some of us mine gold and the others leave it.
When I play Scout, I love the feeling of being so quick and efficient at my mining that in the time it takes for my teammates to finish the objective, there’s not a single mineral left in the cave. Or I finish early and help them with the objective. This mindset bleeds over to when I play the other classes too, to the point my friends keep calling me a scout main even though I love all classes equally (with only a slight bias towards Gunner because joining a mission to see 3 dead dwarves and clutching it out on haz5 feels soo good, he’s like the closest thing to a support class that this game should have, and i also like how he’s kind of an underdog since he’s slightly less played than the other 3 in the community)
Even though technically minerals and gold are both pretty much useless once you unlock everything, I mine gold because I wanna help out the other players in the server with me, I like seeing the numbers go up, I like the sounds they make, I like leaving no minerals behind,
Ultimately it is preference. I even ignore gold on EDD unless there’s downtime, because there I’m in it to win, and the payout in credits is already high for the time invested if you speedrun it, which the difficulty already encourages you to do anyways.
If you wanna mine gold go ahead, if you don’t then don’t. Let nobody stop you.
Also about NTP, Minelayer and some other OCs people consider broken
I like them because I find them fun, not because I’m some big bad braindead tryhard. I stand by this, even if (and lets be honest WHEN) they get nerfed i’d use them. Minelayer in particular because me and my friends I play TF2 with have an injoke with the Demoman class where using the Scottish Resistance (a sticky bomb launcher that gives you +6 for a total of 14 possible bombs at a time) is just laying down ballpits, it’s especially funny if one person goes Engi to place a building to hide the bombs under, so mine laying as a gun reminds me of those funny moments. I also just like using it as a sort of pocket shield to defend, say, an engi who’s building his turrets
I feel like people see too much in black and white when it comes to other players’ intentions, while I do enjoy trying in video games I also like to use gimmicky strategies and nerfing myself with bad/meme weapons, or in this case mods/oc’s. Nothings wrong with being a competitive player or a casual player, and some players actually do both depending on their mood, which is my ideal method of play.
If NTP was nerfed to be more of a support like tool for slowing down the bugs with its status effect and had the damage toned down, it could be more balanced but remain fun.
I do think Minelayer’s extra damage is deserved due to it needing the arm time but it can be toned down, since it already has the AoE that Gunner normally struggles with, making it too much of a do-everything button. As it stands, Minelayer’s extra damage AND AoE makes it far too ammo efficient, not as much as NTP but still pretty good and I believe the OC can still remain fun if the damage is toned down a bit.
That’s just my two cents, though. I’ve never designed video games, so I’m by no means a balancing expert, but hopefully in the future these OCs can remain fun for those who like it but balanced for those who don’t wanna feel forced to use it over the other OCs that they wanna use instead.
I think this game in general is pretty well balanced, though, to the point that there’s only like 5/6 truly bad OCs or weapon mods, and even then an experienced player can take them and still excel, so GSG did very well in that regard. Maybe in the future they can strike a perfect line where every weapon mod and oc is fun, viable, not too much stronger than the others, and a place where people who don’t enjoy mining gold have their alternative method of credit gain while people who do enjoy mining gold can be just as equally efficient.
Also while I’m here please remember to tip Lloyd at the Abyss Bar. He deserves it.
TLDR mine gold if u want to or don’t if u don’t, don’t harass other players for differing gameplay styles. Overpowered mods/ocs aren’t a huge problem compared to some other games due to the pve nature but just like the gas passer in TF2 MVM it can ruin it for your teammates due to making it too easy for them so keep that in mind.
Last five seconds are blessed
Amazing video 😊 As someone who's just sat on the sidelines of this whole community debate, this is exactly the kind of video I love.
"Here is the most accurate information we can provide. Now, make your own decision based on how you want to play and stop trying to force others to make the same one."
Love both of you guys, keep up the great content!
To be fair, they've both been saying that the entire time. It's mainly just the people who are outraged by the fact that the information doesn't conform to how they already play that act otherwise.