Hella points missed. Qui-gon in theory is a second or first tier duelist in legends. It was literally stated that other than Dooku and Yoda, he was the only one who could duel Windu to a draw. As far as Maul goes, he really only won due to terrain. They fought in a reactor. Ataru is weak in confined spaces, which is why Obi-wan switch from Form IV to III, to make sure he had a strong defense in a shitty situation.
@@drift3434 I remember that source, it was in Wookiepedia under Qui Him Jinn's article. But I also remember reading that he was only able to do that when he was in his forties and Windu in his early twenties. He's grown with age now.
I feel like that chin check was a little dirty, too. Even Maul was ashamed he had to pull that but he just wanted to end the dual because Qui-Gon was more powerful than he anticipated
@@hoshiryu Well the main reason Windu beat Palpatine so handily is because he used his own lightsaber form Vaapad, which uses a Sith's hatred against them, so Mace's lightsaber form is more potent against dark siders
@@MIXMASTERRFS3 Qui Gon was prepared to die & join the force at any time. We don't remember ppl by who murdered them. We remember them by their good qualities & noble/righteous words/actions.
5 років тому+8
@@MIXMASTERRFS3 he was simply aging and couldn't keep up. I would argue, if Qui-gon was in his prime he would have defeated Darth Maul.
I wish he could have survived because Liam Neason was such a great actor to play a Jedi. When you watch him in episode 1 you really believe he's a Jedi.
Marty Kuypers So true, but I think Liam didn’t want to be in more Star Wars movies. Because many actors are scared that if they take a big role in Star Wars that people only know him for that movies. Like Alec Guinness (Ben Kenobi) just did one movie and everyone only knows him from New Hope.
I have said it before and I will say it again. Qui-Gon Jinn deserves his own show. Real-life or Clone Wars style. Just have Liam Neeson voice him. Qui-Gon feels to me as a better mentor than any Jedi ever. Also put him in Battlefront 2... If Bosk can be in it, then Qui-Gon certainly can.
I think he is certainly powerful and deserves respect! He became a force voice and led ways for teaching for Obi-Wan and even Yoda into become force ghosts after they perished.
The books 'Star Wars Jedi Apprentice' are a series about Qui-Gon taking Obi-Wan as his padawan and their adventures together. I think theres about 20 books. I actually just started reading them again which is quite nostalgic from my childhood.
I feel they made a mistake for how Qui Gon lost. I think he should have been easily beating Maul at first and Obi Wan is fighting droids. Maul force chokes Anakin and that pressure to save him caused Qui Gon to die.
As a kid, I remember getting a plastic green lightsaber at target and thinking it was Luke’s, but it’s was actually Qui-Gon’s. Once I learned this fact a whole year later, I started liking Qui-Gonna whole lot more.
I would say that Qui-Gon was quite powerful and yes, would agree with the video. One thing I'm surprised didn't get touched on all that much was that Darth Maul was the first Sith known to the Jedi in a thousand years (source Ep. 1). For a number of reasons this probably isn't that big of an issue here, but Jinn had far less opportunity to really learn about fighting the Sith; between Tatooine and Naboo Pt. 2 Electric Boogaloo Qui-Gon had only the one duel to learn from, while Obi-Wan got to watch and (importantly) learn from both duels, giving him a slight edge over Qui-Gon. And Obi-Wan still almost lost that duel! Basically, my point is that time gave the Sith a bit of an advantage the Sith might not have had if they were still out in the open. It's a lot easier to prepare for an enemy you can observe, and while that might not have been the only advantage Darth Maul had in that duel or even the most important, from a narrative standpoint it's definitely one worth looking into.
I have always been one of my favorite Jedi when I was invested in Legends. He was one of the only Jedis to be offered the seat at the council multiple times although it could because that offer is rarely refused but it's still noteworthy especially when you consider that he was already considered a grey jedi by many when he was offered the seat for the last time. In fact when they offered him the seat the council believed he would turn to the dark side eventually and they still offered him a seat. He was acknowledged as worthy by the Force Priestesses which enable him to learn life after death and even though he didn't completely unlock the secrets he was able to teach himself enough that he kept his consciousness and was one with the Force, the first Jedi to do so. All 3 of his apprentices grew to be very skilled and although Xanatos turned to the dark side you can hardly blame Jinn for that as Xanatos already showed a lot of hints of his pride but was well regarded as a lightsaber duelist. Feemor, his first apprentice, was promoted to Jedi Knight and it was implied that he took on a Padawan as well. Jinn decided to have a training session where Feemor and Xanatos would go against Jinn where the pair were easily losing until Xanatos sacrificed Feemor to get the win by knocking off Qui Gon's saber. I can't remember if it was Feemor who said it but it was stated that had this been a duel to the death that Jinn could've killed both of them before that point. There is more I can state but what I'm trying to say is no you guys are not wanking him off at all. He was a renowned Jedi, was considered the better of Dooku's 2 apprentices and without Jinn's influence the Sith would've won. I consider him just shy of the level Mace and Windu were.
Loved this, you guys reminded me so much of how I was often alone in regards to how I rated Qui Gon Jinn compared to my friends in Primary School. He really does deserve more respect than he gets, and whilst it might not be the first thing on any writers mind, I would like it if we could get a definitive catalogue of his power/skills level.
Qui-Gon is amazing. Definitely one of my favorite Jedi of all time. You guys describe him very well. I'll never forget his advice to Anakin, "Your focus determines your reality." That gem of insight has stuck with me since I was 10 years old.
I'd like to add that perhaps Qui-Gon lost to Maul because it was the will of the force. His death lead him to reaching out as a force Ghost. Perhaps we shouldn't look at his death as a loss but as a calculated decision and path.
"Thats not how the force works................ oh you're cold?" But in all honesty even if the force had a plan it would make more sense for Qui Gon to have completed his after life training and be able to come as a Force Ghost and look after Anakin and Kenobi more directly.
It's just a thought... It's always talked about the Will of the Force.. if the force has a Will then it has wants and intent. Qui-Gon did the will of the force and not that of his own Will... Key word being Will.
He learned Makashi from Dooku but stopped pursuing it when he became a Jedi Knight as he thought Ataru was more practical during their time since Makashi was a dueling style and there weren't a lot of duels during missions.
@@utoresa5193 I think he means had Qui Gon taken Anakin as a Padawan it might've quelled his turn to the dark side as Kenobi was not necessarily ready to take on a Padawan when he took Anakin. Also I wouldn't say Kenobi was more powerful than Qui Gon during ROTS, probably just as powerful. He was regarded by the Order as one of their most skilled duelists and bested a lot of Jedi Masters with the same reputation. Plagueis himself thought Maul was no match for Jinn and was surprised when Maul killed "the great Qui Gon Jinn". This was the same Maul who was assassinating multiple Jedi Knights at the same time.
8:01 , Palpatine requested for Qui-Gon to be a diplomat, and Qui-Gon is the only person Palpatine feared because Qui-Gon's power with the force was stronger than someone like Yoda, meaning Qui-Gon could've probably prevented Anakin's fall to the dark side, so Palpatine's plan was to kill Qui-Gon, him giving multiple orders to kill Qui-Gon. So, I think Qui-Gon was a diplomat not because of his skills of being a diplomat, but because Palpatine needed Qui-Gon out of the picture to make his plans successful.
I'm loving these discussions, man! I really wish I had friends who were similarly obsessed with Star Wars as me, so I could have these types of discussions with them.
I will always be mad that we didn't get more of Qui-Gon. He is such an interesting, powerful and extremely likable character! Maybe he can get the same treatment as the Han Solo movie, but hopefully not just as a cash grab and actually do him justice.
A couple things I'm surprised didn't get mentioned here is Maul was not only in his prime, but he was also trained solely as a weapon and assassin. His entire point of existence was to kill. Jinn on the other hand had passed his prime, as mentioned in the video, and unlike Maul had not been focusing only on honing his combat skills. Also the double bladed lightsaber was an advantage because it had not been a weapon in use for about as long as the Sith were hiding in the shadows. Maul had a best case scenario against Jinn: They didn't truly engage until Jinn was becoming fatigued, lots of running and jumping and fast paced skirmishes. They ended up in an open room, giving Maul maximum use of his double bladed lightsaber. And finally, Obi Wan was cut off from the fight leaving a now tiring Jinn to fight solo. These all gave Maul a fairly big advantage. If they just went at it, one on one, and nobody drags out the fight, I think Jinn would stand a very good chance of beating Maul. But the longer the engagement becomes, the more likely he is to losing to Maul. Just because he died in his first movie, Maul doesn't get the respect he should in regards to force potential and combat prowess. He was a valid threat to all but a small handful of Jedi. And those are the true upper echelons of the order; Yoda, Dooku, Windu, Mundi and maybe one or two other council members. Everyone else would probably lose most if not every time against Maul. He basically was what Grievous would have been had he been force sensitive.
Qui gon jinn is probably the greatest Jedi teacher ever. Even better than yoda cuz he acknowledges the flaws of the Jedi but never gave into the dark side. Also he knew how to handle emotions instead of disregarding them
It’s unknown since he trained under Dooku no doubt he picked up the same fighting styles as him and more. He was strong to be recognized as a master. However the part where he lost to Darth Maul gets me since an enraged Obi Wan quickly dispatched of him but when Obi was fought Dooku he stated he was more powerful than Maul.
*_Maul was toying with an enraged Kenobi, and only lost because he was caught off-guard. Earlier in the duel, Kenobi was of no concern to Maul, who kept kicking him around. Fact Files state that Maul had to seperate the duo and concentrate on taking down Qui-Gon in order to win. He was the real threat, and it took Maul a long time to take him down._*
Johann Guchte don’t forget the part where he stated Dooku was stronger than Maul. Even if maul played with Obi wan he was still pushed back and defeated. Dooku was playing with both anakin and Obi wan and had to wait for yoda to save them
I would not rank him in "power" above many of the others but he and Asoka showed that the Jedi were mostly stale rule followers by the time the republic was ending. I'd actually argue that he was one of the few "TRUE" Jedi -- the rest just followed the teachings of the Order. My list of Jedi is relatively short: Asoka, QGJ, and Luke.
Agreed with you all the way until the end. Qui Gon didn’t “lose” to Maul because unprepared in the midst of battle with Maul. I believe when he takes the knee behind the red gates, the force tells him that it is his time and he has willing accepted that which is also another reason why he doesn’t survive the stomach wound.
*_Powerful enough to be stated as one of the most powerful Jedi of all time. Powerful enough for Mace Windu to call him a master of the Force. Powerful enough that Darth Plagueis thought Jinn could single-handedly defeat all the forces aboard the big Trade Federation thingy in the first scene of The Phantom Menace. Powerful enough that Darth Sidious was proud that Darth Maul had killed "the great Qui-Gon Jinn" in his words. Powerful enough that Darth Plagueis after a single encounter with Jinn was worried that Maul would be killed if they fought._* *_How skilled was he? Skilled enough to be widely regarded by his fellow Jedi as one of the most skilled duelists ever produced by the Jedi Order. Skilled enough to spar thousands of times with Count Dooku. Skilled enough to repeatedly outduel Jedi Master Anoon Bondara(a legendary Weapons Master who was considered by all his students and fellow Jedi Masters to be the most skilled Jedi alive). Skilled enough to be on the Jedi Council if not for his rogue views(the Council are stated to be the most skilled Jedi alive). Skilled enough to closely-match Darth Maul in two separate encounters._*
@@AxisChurchDevotee -- *_Only after putting up one heck of a fight. Under even circumstances, Qui-Gon Jinn is only slightly less powerful/skilled than Maul._*
Saying that Qui-Gon followed the will of the Force and "lost" implies that his death was NOT the will of the Force and in fact the Force may have wanted/needed him to die as he did to make Obi-Wan the person he became and to create the reality that was where the Chosen One, who Obi-Wan trained, was eventually defeated by Luke, who Obi-Wan also trained.
@@kingkhalil5523 While I admittedly did not explain it well the first time, my point is that SW said that Qui-Gon took a moment to meditate and "lost" anyway. My point is that perhaps he did exactly as the Force wanted/needed. The Force needed Qui-Gon to die, it changed Obi-Wan, having him adopt a more defensive style, arguably the only reason he is able to survive combat with Grievous. Additionally Obi-Wan replays that fight over and over which is one of the things that helps him beat Vader on Mustafar. Because he survives all of this he can then also train Luke who turns Vader who in turn trains Rey. None of which would have happened if Qui-Gon lived, so my point is the Force knew what it was doing and Qui-Gon may have "won" by following the Force
I think Qui-Gon was extremely powerful. Dooku was his master who was also extremely powerful. But it's Qui-Gon. He already had it all in him,he just progressed. He had all talents and skill owned. He was amazing Jedi. And great teacher. Extremely smart,fatherly figure,noble,kind. He knew how to be strict but in the right way. To make his apprentice and everyone around him better people. He had great charisma. Really great. Great orator and speaker. Motivator. He was on the level with Mace and Yoda. I agree. Powerful than Palpatine. Agreed. Pure light and goodness. I think he listened to the Force when he died. Its extremely possible. He knew what happens,what will happen,and that his help will be needed. In other,really great way. Most powerful way. Ultimate victory for Good. May the Force be with you both
*I have a theory why Qui Gon Chose to master The Ataru Lightsaber Style:* Ataru uses the force in its form alot to pull off some acrobatic and aggressive techniques. Qui gon believes the force guides all things. By Using Ataru the force can almost literally guide his blade and actions. Also Qui Gon Was Very Grey in His Beliefs, and Ataru uses techniques that push the line in the eyes of the jedi. Lastly his Master Dooku Specialized in An Aggressive dueling form, to hold his own better Qui Gon may have turned to the more aggressive form of Ataru versus other lightsaber styles.
I think so. It would make sense that “peacekeeper” Jedi wouldn’t be using a dual bladed saber since it doesn’t seem quite “peacekeeper-ish”. In my head canon, Jedi living during the galactic republic only started using dual bladed lightsabers when the Jedi started to become more militarized during the clone wars.
Lowkey you are right. In a New Hope, Obi-Wan was younger than Qui-Gon Jinn when he died. Qui-Gon was 62 and Obi-Wan was 58 when both died respectively.
(Nerd mode: engaged). I like that you rarely saw Qui-Gon ignite his sabre, he seemed very restrained, which was awesome. In the ST everyone's just running around with them ignited and it disrespects the point of the light sabre and the Jedi order I think. (Nerd mode: disengaged)
I agree with your assessments of Qi Gon, and think he was a very understated and underrated character. I wish we had a back story to him in film or tv would be very cool. He might of seen the need to sacrifice himself to tech Obi Wan in exile as part of the balancing of the force.
This was fantastic. It’s completely understandable why Qui-Avon is so popular but all the more sad for being so underrated. . Speaking of underrated though, it would be awesome to see one of these videos on Count Dooku. I’ve noticed a LOT of people seem to underrate him massively. To the point where I’ve once heard it argued once that Revenge of the Sith Anakin and Obi-Wan would TRASH peak Dooku and peak Darth Maul at the same time while simultaneously claiming Dooku was the WEAKEST member of those 4. . I’ve never understood why Dooku is so terribly underrated and underestimated when he’s actually one of the most powerful force users and skilled duellists we’ve ever seen.
My favorite Jedi master qui gon jinn because of his age which is 60 he was slower but one thing he has that many Jedi don’t he is calm and used the fore to guide his ways abilities movements so he was one with the force
Well Qui-Gon mastered the ability to become a Force Ghost, which Obi-Wan implied would make him "more powerful than [Vader] could possibly imagine" and which Yoda referred to as "a power greater than all." Speaking of Yoda, he became Qui-Gon's padawan apprentice -- which implies a hell of a lot about the ability and wisdom of Qui-Gon Jinn. There is also an unfortunate misconception that Mace Windu legitimately outdueled Sidious, when the movie, the novel, and comparative feats (i.e. Sidious vs Maul & Savage Opress, in which Sidious was kicked multiple times in the face much harder than Mace kicked Sidious -- and Sidious laughed about it while doing backflips, whereas against Windu he never drew his second lightsaber and pretended to lose to "seduce" Anakin to the Dark Side) all suggest otherwise. Just looking at the moment when Sidious had his lightsaber an inch from Windu's chest, and Windu has a shocked expression on his face as he slowly backs up, shows that Sidious was in control the entire time. That situation wasn't a "close call:" any fencer or swordsman would know, beyond all reasonable doubt, that Sidious had Windu dead to right in that situation (this is without factoring Sidious' far more powerful Force abilities, which could have included yanking Windu closer, momentarily holding back his blade to deliver the fatal thrust, using Force Lightning with his offhand while impaling Windu, using objects in the room to throw at Windu which would have been impossible to react to his a lightsaber already past his guard); it was the real world equivelent of having someone at gunpoint, except you can't miss. I bring this up because it is entirely possible that Qui-Gon was equal to Mace Windu, without implying he was equal to or greater than Sidious. I actually remember reading that only Yoda and Dooku could beat Qui-Gon, and only Mace could fight him to a draw.
Great diplomat, no doubt. A very good Jedi as well and his quickness was good, that point while they were eating and he caught Jar Jar's tongue and said "don't do that again" showed how quick and in tune he was with the force. I would have been interesting if he was still around during Revenge of the Sith. I think with his amazing intuitive sense and being with the force, he could have helped stop Palpatine and maybe prevented Anakin's turn and the fall of the Republic. It would have changed everything.
Just a quick correction I want to throw in here... The original quote is actually " Jack of all trades, master of one"... Master of none is kind of a parody on the original quote.
I like your video. I just think in the part he was meditating right before Darth Maul killed him, he kinda knew he might die and he was using the force to make him live after dying or become a sort of force ghost himself. That's what I always thought about that part.
Qui gon was way powerful than kit fisto . Plo Koon considered him as his equal in lightsaber combat skills ( also plo koon was powerful than fisto ) and better than him in force use and intelligence ( that's why plo koon didn't accepted the high councils seat at first because he thought qui gon will be a better member than him ). The Jedi Master jinn earned respect and fear of the most powerful force users like _ Yoda, sidious , plagueis and maul.
If I would be a Jedi I would trust in the force like Qui Gon, BUT, I would use my will to bend the force to my will like the Sith when it is needed. Would be something like a Grey Jedi
Another thing, while Quigon and the jedi had no realistic expectation of ever having to duel a Sith 1v1, Maul was trained heavily just on preparing to kill a Jedi, while Jedi focused on drealing w non force sensitives
I would LOVE to her more about Shak Ti. But as for Qui-Gon I thought he was a fan favorite because was powerful and wise. A final thought relying on the force to guide you through stuff, may not be that bad, if the force tells you it is your time and you follow the force as he did, perhaps he was ready for it or welcomed it, Obi-Wan seemed to do so in episode 4.
From: starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Qui-Gon_Jinn/Legends "Ataru was not Jinn's only fighting style, and he had learned other forms of lightsaber combat, possibly to better handle the weaknesses of Form IV. Being apprenticed to Dooku, the greatest master of Makashi of the time, it is apparent that Jinn learned the classical dueling form of Makashi from his master and he was versed enough to effectively incorporate its maneuvers into his dueling style.[181] Not only was Form II more effective against a single lightsaber-wielding opponent,[182] but it was also more grounded,[18] as demonstrated in Jinn's duels with Darth Maul.[3] His knowledge was also great enough that he apparently taught Xanatos how to use Makashi. He seemed to have been well-trained in Shien and Soresu, as he could easily handle blaster-wielding opponents.[3] When he and Kenobi fought Taxer Sundown's hypnotized soldiers, who were wielding training lightsabers,[86] he displayed a level of mastery of Shii-Cho shared with Kit Fisto, albeit at a lesser degree." Qui-Gon Jinn was just not as prone to the weakness of Ataru.
I wish Qui-Gon could’ve gotten to train Anakin fully. I think the father figure element would have been a lot stronger for Anakin than it was with Obi-Wan. It would have been less likely for Anakin to turn to the dark side, in my opinion. But, there’s continuity issues with that, so whatever....
I have always thought of Qui-Gon Jinn as one of the best Jedi to ever live he has always been my one of my most favorite characters in the entire franchise and in my personal opinion, Qui-Gon died a hero of Naboo and a hero to the Jedi for ages to come and especially for the Force itself and part of me has always felt like that moment in the Phantom Menace where he meditates during his duel with Darth Maul, he actually knew, somehow, during that duel he would fall but either way he is one of the best Jedi to ever live and one of the many greatest characters and heroes in all of STAR WARS
I feel that Lucasfilm blew it with Qui-Gon Jinn. He was such an interesting and influential character, and he got killed off before the end of his first and only movie. Now the actor is too old to play him in spinoffs, so the only sensible way we can get him again is through an animated series maybe.
It showx how highly thought of and so powerful Qui was because even though the council disagreed wuth him, they did not stop him. They wiuld talk about it later
i heard alot of this debate and ive heard cause ataru using large acrobatics that he was at a disadvantage during most of the duel in tight places and small walk ways and that darth maul just outmaneuvered him
new cannon really seems to be playing with peoples power lvls, obi wan just barely even got selected to be a knight and was originally sent to a jedi farming planet
Actually qui gon jinn did become a force ghost he didn’t finish his training to become a full on force ghost but he is a force ghost but only in a certain place he appeared to master Yoda and told him to go to the planet that he goes in exile and he sees the future of the Jedi order and doesn’t stop it from happening he knows that Anakin Skywalker becomes darth Vader and he also knows that the chancellor is the Sith Lord that everyone was looking for but Yoda doesn’t tell anyone and he doesn’t do anything to stopping it
does it ever occur to anyone that maybe qui gon wasn't going for the kill like maul was and that hindered him and 60 years old for a force sensitive jedi is not old, mace windu was 53 when he defeated Palpatine and qui gon was probably his equal I think you guys are also undercutting mauls skill as he is considered one of the greatest duelists ever
Most underrated Jedi of all time. Love Qui-Gon Jinn.
#Quigonjinn
Jeopardy: Who is Galen Marek
Definitely top 5
Yeah along with Shaak Ti
He’s definitely my favorite Jedi. Not the most powerful, but his strength is in his wisdom and intellect.
Hella points missed. Qui-gon in theory is a second or first tier duelist in legends. It was literally stated that other than Dooku and Yoda, he was the only one who could duel Windu to a draw. As far as Maul goes, he really only won due to terrain. They fought in a reactor. Ataru is weak in confined spaces, which is why Obi-wan switch from Form IV to III, to make sure he had a strong defense in a shitty situation.
can u show us the source please.
@@drift3434 I remember that source, it was in Wookiepedia under Qui Him Jinn's article. But I also remember reading that he was only able to do that when he was in his forties and Windu in his early twenties. He's grown with age now.
I feel like that chin check was a little dirty, too. Even Maul was ashamed he had to pull that but he just wanted to end the dual because Qui-Gon was more powerful than he anticipated
Wait Equal to Windu? So better than Palpatine?
@@hoshiryu Well the main reason Windu beat Palpatine so handily is because he used his own lightsaber form Vaapad, which uses a Sith's hatred against them, so Mace's lightsaber form is more potent against dark siders
Practitioner of Ataru
Maverick Jedi Master
Teacher of Obi-Wan Kenobi
Student of Count Dooku
Finder of the Chosen One
And all around badass
Ayeee a Legend indeed.
Victim of Darth Maul
@@MIXMASTERRFS3 Qui Gon was prepared to die & join the force at any time. We don't remember ppl by who murdered them. We remember them by their good qualities & noble/righteous words/actions.
@@MIXMASTERRFS3 he was simply aging and couldn't keep up. I would argue, if Qui-gon was in his prime he would have defeated Darth Maul.
He had a “particular set of skills”
Skills required over a very long career
And he trained you
And he will find you
😂😂😂
And he will strike you down
I wish he could have survived because Liam Neason was such a great actor to play a Jedi. When you watch him in episode 1 you really believe he's a Jedi.
Marty Kuypers So true, but I think Liam didn’t want to be in more Star Wars movies. Because many actors are scared that if they take a big role in Star Wars that people only know him for that movies. Like Alec Guinness (Ben Kenobi) just did one movie and everyone only knows him from New Hope.
And Harrison Ford that's why he hates his character
I agree, Liam did a great portrayal of the character
Hmmm when i think of harrison i think of indiana
@@christopherlithgo2600 when I think of Harrison I think of him as one of the greatest actors of all time. He didn't deserve to be killed off.
I have said it before and I will say it again. Qui-Gon Jinn deserves his own show. Real-life or Clone Wars style. Just have Liam Neeson voice him. Qui-Gon feels to me as a better mentor than any Jedi ever.
Also put him in Battlefront 2... If Bosk can be in it, then Qui-Gon certainly can.
well a little late to bf2 sadly but here's hoping he's a starting character in number 3
Unfortunately Tales is crap 😢
Qui-Gon is one of the best prequel characters, I’d say
Yup, and one of the best characters generally 😘
Alex Diviney I agree.
He is THE best prequel character, next to Obi-Wan and Yoda.
Silverwolf99 I do agree
I think he is certainly powerful and deserves respect! He became a force voice and led ways for teaching for Obi-Wan and even Yoda into become force ghosts after they perished.
I thought you guys were right on point with Qui-Gon. I wish we got more of him in other SW media.
The books 'Star Wars Jedi Apprentice' are a series about Qui-Gon taking Obi-Wan as his padawan and their adventures together. I think theres about 20 books. I actually just started reading them again which is quite nostalgic from my childhood.
@@CrystalDragon-wk9lc Yeah it's a great book series I have read about half of them more than once
Qui-Gon is my favorite Jedi, simply because of his believe in the force.
I feel they made a mistake for how Qui Gon lost.
I think he should have been easily beating Maul at first and Obi Wan is fighting droids.
Maul force chokes Anakin and that pressure to save him caused Qui Gon to die.
As a kid, I remember getting a plastic green lightsaber at target and thinking it was Luke’s, but it’s was actually Qui-Gon’s. Once I learned this fact a whole year later, I started liking Qui-Gonna whole lot more.
Qui Gon is the reason why Obi Wan is nicknamed "The Negotiator".
I would say that Qui-Gon was quite powerful and yes, would agree with the video. One thing I'm surprised didn't get touched on all that much was that Darth Maul was the first Sith known to the Jedi in a thousand years (source Ep. 1). For a number of reasons this probably isn't that big of an issue here, but Jinn had far less opportunity to really learn about fighting the Sith; between Tatooine and Naboo Pt. 2 Electric Boogaloo Qui-Gon had only the one duel to learn from, while Obi-Wan got to watch and (importantly) learn from both duels, giving him a slight edge over Qui-Gon. And Obi-Wan still almost lost that duel!
Basically, my point is that time gave the Sith a bit of an advantage the Sith might not have had if they were still out in the open. It's a lot easier to prepare for an enemy you can observe, and while that might not have been the only advantage Darth Maul had in that duel or even the most important, from a narrative standpoint it's definitely one worth looking into.
Definitely wiser than all the Jedi Order, who were too busy worshipping the Republic
The council was too high on midiclorians
I have always been one of my favorite Jedi when I was invested in Legends. He was one of the only Jedis to be offered the seat at the council multiple times although it could because that offer is rarely refused but it's still noteworthy especially when you consider that he was already considered a grey jedi by many when he was offered the seat for the last time. In fact when they offered him the seat the council believed he would turn to the dark side eventually and they still offered him a seat. He was acknowledged as worthy by the Force Priestesses which enable him to learn life after death and even though he didn't completely unlock the secrets he was able to teach himself enough that he kept his consciousness and was one with the Force, the first Jedi to do so.
All 3 of his apprentices grew to be very skilled and although Xanatos turned to the dark side you can hardly blame Jinn for that as Xanatos already showed a lot of hints of his pride but was well regarded as a lightsaber duelist. Feemor, his first apprentice, was promoted to Jedi Knight and it was implied that he took on a Padawan as well. Jinn decided to have a training session where Feemor and Xanatos would go against Jinn where the pair were easily losing until Xanatos sacrificed Feemor to get the win by knocking off Qui Gon's saber. I can't remember if it was Feemor who said it but it was stated that had this been a duel to the death that Jinn could've killed both of them before that point.
There is more I can state but what I'm trying to say is no you guys are not wanking him off at all. He was a renowned Jedi, was considered the better of Dooku's 2 apprentices and without Jinn's influence the Sith would've won. I consider him just shy of the level Mace and Windu were.
Loved this, you guys reminded me so much of how I was often alone in regards to how I rated Qui Gon Jinn compared to my friends in Primary School.
He really does deserve more respect than he gets, and whilst it might not be the first thing on any writers mind, I would like it if we could get a definitive catalogue of his power/skills level.
Qui-gon has always, always been my favorite Jedi.
Qui-Gon is amazing. Definitely one of my favorite Jedi of all time. You guys describe him very well. I'll never forget his advice to Anakin, "Your focus determines your reality." That gem of insight has stuck with me since I was 10 years old.
I'd like to add that perhaps Qui-Gon lost to Maul because it was the will of the force. His death lead him to reaching out as a force Ghost. Perhaps we shouldn't look at his death as a loss but as a calculated decision and path.
The force doesnt work that way.
"Thats not how the force works................ oh you're cold?"
But in all honesty even if the force had a plan it would make more sense for Qui Gon to have completed his after life training and be able to come as a Force Ghost and look after Anakin and Kenobi more directly.
I agree
That's a cop out
It's just a thought... It's always talked about the Will of the Force.. if the force has a Will then it has wants and intent. Qui-Gon did the will of the force and not that of his own Will... Key word being Will.
*_Qui-Gon also mastered Makashi, as it's stated that Qui-Gon mastered the same styles as his master(Dooku)._*
He learned Makashi from Dooku but stopped pursuing it when he became a Jedi Knight as he thought Ataru was more practical during their time since Makashi was a dueling style and there weren't a lot of duels during missions.
I love the casting of this movie. I just wish it had a better screenplay. Liam Neeson is awesome as a wizened, sage Jedi
Qui-gon's greatest ability? Questioning authority.
I love Qui-Gon Jinn, he's my favourite character in Star Wars and the more I learn about him the more that grows.
He was so powerful that he could’ve stopped Darth Vader’s rise
Well he wasn't near ROTS Anakin if that's what you mean,by that point even Kenobi was considerably more powerful.
@@utoresa5193 I think he means had Qui Gon taken Anakin as a Padawan it might've quelled his turn to the dark side as Kenobi was not necessarily ready to take on a Padawan when he took Anakin. Also I wouldn't say Kenobi was more powerful than Qui Gon during ROTS, probably just as powerful. He was regarded by the Order as one of their most skilled duelists and bested a lot of Jedi Masters with the same reputation. Plagueis himself thought Maul was no match for Jinn and was surprised when Maul killed "the great Qui Gon Jinn". This was the same Maul who was assassinating multiple Jedi Knights at the same time.
True. Jin wasn't prideful, but rather, actually, deeply confident.
8:01 , Palpatine requested for Qui-Gon to be a diplomat, and Qui-Gon is the only person Palpatine feared because Qui-Gon's power with the force was stronger than someone like Yoda, meaning Qui-Gon could've probably prevented Anakin's fall to the dark side, so Palpatine's plan was to kill Qui-Gon, him giving multiple orders to kill Qui-Gon. So, I think Qui-Gon was a diplomat not because of his skills of being a diplomat, but because Palpatine needed Qui-Gon out of the picture to make his plans successful.
I'm loving these discussions, man! I really wish I had friends who were similarly obsessed with Star Wars as me, so I could have these types of discussions with them.
I will always be mad that we didn't get more of Qui-Gon. He is such an interesting, powerful and extremely likable character! Maybe he can get the same treatment as the Han Solo movie, but hopefully not just as a cash grab and actually do him justice.
One of the greatest and THE MOST UNDERRATED jedi of all time.
A couple things I'm surprised didn't get mentioned here is Maul was not only in his prime, but he was also trained solely as a weapon and assassin. His entire point of existence was to kill. Jinn on the other hand had passed his prime, as mentioned in the video, and unlike Maul had not been focusing only on honing his combat skills.
Also the double bladed lightsaber was an advantage because it had not been a weapon in use for about as long as the Sith were hiding in the shadows. Maul had a best case scenario against Jinn: They didn't truly engage until Jinn was becoming fatigued, lots of running and jumping and fast paced skirmishes. They ended up in an open room, giving Maul maximum use of his double bladed lightsaber. And finally, Obi Wan was cut off from the fight leaving a now tiring Jinn to fight solo. These all gave Maul a fairly big advantage.
If they just went at it, one on one, and nobody drags out the fight, I think Jinn would stand a very good chance of beating Maul. But the longer the engagement becomes, the more likely he is to losing to Maul.
Just because he died in his first movie, Maul doesn't get the respect he should in regards to force potential and combat prowess. He was a valid threat to all but a small handful of Jedi. And those are the true upper echelons of the order; Yoda, Dooku, Windu, Mundi and maybe one or two other council members. Everyone else would probably lose most if not every time against Maul. He basically was what Grievous would have been had he been force sensitive.
Qui gon jinn is probably the greatest Jedi teacher ever. Even better than yoda cuz he acknowledges the flaws of the Jedi but never gave into the dark side. Also he knew how to handle emotions instead of disregarding them
It’s unknown since he trained under Dooku no doubt he picked up the same fighting styles as him and more. He was strong to be recognized as a master. However the part where he lost to Darth Maul gets me since an enraged Obi Wan quickly dispatched of him but when Obi was fought Dooku he stated he was more powerful than Maul.
*_Maul was toying with an enraged Kenobi, and only lost because he was caught off-guard. Earlier in the duel, Kenobi was of no concern to Maul, who kept kicking him around. Fact Files state that Maul had to seperate the duo and concentrate on taking down Qui-Gon in order to win. He was the real threat, and it took Maul a long time to take him down._*
Johann Guchte don’t forget the part where he stated Dooku was stronger than Maul. Even if maul played with Obi wan he was still pushed back and defeated. Dooku was playing with both anakin and Obi wan and had to wait for yoda to save them
“what I do have are a very particular set of skills”
I'd like to see the develop Qui-Gon Jinn as a standalone movie. A prequel to The prequels.
My favorite character in all series, since the first time I ever watched the movies
Maybe as powerful as *Qui-Gon-Gym*
his apprentice Obi Swole Kenobi was more powerful
@@TheCzarcastic Only to be surpassed by Ben Swolo
And Palprotein
@@thejanglingjones6164 Palprotein was a Sith and he trained Darth Lifter
All y'all realize that they are all related and or tied to Yoga.
Not only was he trained by Dooku. Dooku held him in a very high regard
I would not rank him in "power" above many of the others but he and Asoka showed that the Jedi were mostly stale rule followers by the time the republic was ending. I'd actually argue that he was one of the few "TRUE" Jedi -- the rest just followed the teachings of the Order. My list of Jedi is relatively short: Asoka, QGJ, and Luke.
Agreed with you all the way until the end. Qui Gon didn’t “lose” to Maul because unprepared in the midst of battle with Maul. I believe when he takes the knee behind the red gates, the force tells him that it is his time and he has willing accepted that which is also another reason why he doesn’t survive the stomach wound.
Favorite Jedi by far. Wish we could see more in films too.
Qui Gons connection to the Force is almost unmatched save for Yoda, Luke and Obi Wan
If Qui Gon was younger, he would’ve killed Maul, easily
*_Powerful enough to be stated as one of the most powerful Jedi of all time. Powerful enough for Mace Windu to call him a master of the Force. Powerful enough that Darth Plagueis thought Jinn could single-handedly defeat all the forces aboard the big Trade Federation thingy in the first scene of The Phantom Menace. Powerful enough that Darth Sidious was proud that Darth Maul had killed "the great Qui-Gon Jinn" in his words. Powerful enough that Darth Plagueis after a single encounter with Jinn was worried that Maul would be killed if they fought._*
*_How skilled was he? Skilled enough to be widely regarded by his fellow Jedi as one of the most skilled duelists ever produced by the Jedi Order. Skilled enough to spar thousands of times with Count Dooku. Skilled enough to repeatedly outduel Jedi Master Anoon Bondara(a legendary Weapons Master who was considered by all his students and fellow Jedi Masters to be the most skilled Jedi alive). Skilled enough to be on the Jedi Council if not for his rogue views(the Council are stated to be the most skilled Jedi alive). Skilled enough to closely-match Darth Maul in two separate encounters._*
Only to die to darth maul.
Fail
@@AxisChurchDevotee but by factors that you haven't taken into account...
@@Nelo_Wolf But still Darth Maul!
@@AxisChurchDevotee -- *_Only after putting up one heck of a fight. Under even circumstances, Qui-Gon Jinn is only slightly less powerful/skilled than Maul._*
@@AxisChurchDevotee cause of plot!
damn, got enough ads in this video? eh it’s whatever, keep up the amazing content!
What was Obi-Wan's favorite alcohol too order?
Qui-Gon's Gin.
Saying that Qui-Gon followed the will of the Force and "lost" implies that his death was NOT the will of the Force and in fact the Force may have wanted/needed him to die as he did to make Obi-Wan the person he became and to create the reality that was where the Chosen One, who Obi-Wan trained, was eventually defeated by Luke, who Obi-Wan also trained.
Eric Harkleroad what
@@kingkhalil5523 While I admittedly did not explain it well the first time, my point is that SW said that Qui-Gon took a moment to meditate and "lost" anyway. My point is that perhaps he did exactly as the Force wanted/needed. The Force needed Qui-Gon to die, it changed Obi-Wan, having him adopt a more defensive style, arguably the only reason he is able to survive combat with Grievous. Additionally Obi-Wan replays that fight over and over which is one of the things that helps him beat Vader on Mustafar. Because he survives all of this he can then also train Luke who turns Vader who in turn trains Rey. None of which would have happened if Qui-Gon lived, so my point is the Force knew what it was doing and Qui-Gon may have "won" by following the Force
Ok I wasn't trollying I was trying to understand that makes sense bro ")
@@kingkhalil5523 no worries
Qui-Gon is and always will be in my top 3 Jedi.
I think he was accepting of his death, as it was the will of the force. He was just a little surprised in the moment by its (the force) wishes.
and keep making more of these your awesome
I think Qui-Gon was extremely powerful. Dooku was his master who was also extremely powerful. But it's Qui-Gon. He already had it all in him,he just progressed. He had all talents and skill owned. He was amazing Jedi. And great teacher. Extremely smart,fatherly figure,noble,kind. He knew how to be strict but in the right way. To make his apprentice and everyone around him better people. He had great charisma. Really great. Great orator and speaker. Motivator. He was on the level with Mace and Yoda. I agree. Powerful than Palpatine. Agreed. Pure light and goodness. I think he listened to the Force when he died. Its extremely possible. He knew what happens,what will happen,and that his help will be needed. In other,really great way. Most powerful way. Ultimate victory for Good. May the Force be with you both
*I have a theory why Qui Gon Chose to master The Ataru Lightsaber Style:* Ataru uses the force in its form alot to pull off some acrobatic and aggressive techniques. Qui gon believes the force guides all things. By Using Ataru the force can almost literally guide his blade and actions. Also Qui Gon Was Very Grey in His Beliefs, and Ataru uses techniques that push the line in the eyes of the jedi. Lastly his Master Dooku Specialized in An Aggressive dueling form, to hold his own better Qui Gon may have turned to the more aggressive form of Ataru versus other lightsaber styles.
Qui-Gon was the first Jedi to fight a sith in over a millennia if you go of what Mundi says in episode 1.
He has a very particular set of skills
Did jedi even practice fighting vs dual bladed lightsabers at that point? that may have also been a factor
I think so. It would make sense that “peacekeeper” Jedi wouldn’t be using a dual bladed saber since it doesn’t seem quite “peacekeeper-ish”. In my head canon, Jedi living during the galactic republic only started using dual bladed lightsabers when the Jedi started to become more militarized during the clone wars.
Lowkey you are right. In a New Hope, Obi-Wan was younger than Qui-Gon Jinn when he died. Qui-Gon was 62 and Obi-Wan was 58 when both died respectively.
I think Qui Gan was the perfect Jedi and I mean the perfect Jedi. Not the strongest but the perfect.
Cinematically the most underrated Jedi there is.
(Nerd mode: engaged). I like that you rarely saw Qui-Gon ignite his sabre, he seemed very restrained, which was awesome. In the ST everyone's just running around with them ignited and it disrespects the point of the light sabre and the Jedi order I think. (Nerd mode: disengaged)
Kenobi was the same way he only used it as a last resort
I agree with your assessments of Qi Gon, and think he was a very understated and underrated character. I wish we had a back story to him in film or tv would be very cool. He might of seen the need to sacrifice himself to tech Obi Wan in exile as part of the balancing of the force.
What more respect CAN he get?! He's one of the most beloved characters I've heard of.
Excellent conversation. Excellent assessment. Excellent video 👍
This was fantastic. It’s completely understandable why Qui-Avon is so popular but all the more sad for being so underrated.
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Speaking of underrated though, it would be awesome to see one of these videos on Count Dooku. I’ve noticed a LOT of people seem to underrate him massively. To the point where I’ve once heard it argued once that Revenge of the Sith Anakin and Obi-Wan would TRASH peak Dooku and peak Darth Maul at the same time while simultaneously claiming Dooku was the WEAKEST member of those 4.
.
I’ve never understood why Dooku is so terribly underrated and underestimated when he’s actually one of the most powerful force users and skilled duellists we’ve ever seen.
My favorite Jedi master qui gon jinn because of his age which is 60 he was slower but one thing he has that many Jedi don’t he is calm and used the fore to guide his ways abilities movements so he was one with the force
I really like the simple beauty of his light sabre.
It’s as beautiful as orgus din’s sabre in it’s own way
Well Qui-Gon mastered the ability to become a Force Ghost, which Obi-Wan implied would make him "more powerful than [Vader] could possibly imagine" and which Yoda referred to as "a power greater than all." Speaking of Yoda, he became Qui-Gon's padawan apprentice -- which implies a hell of a lot about the ability and wisdom of Qui-Gon Jinn.
There is also an unfortunate misconception that Mace Windu legitimately outdueled Sidious, when the movie, the novel, and comparative feats (i.e. Sidious vs Maul & Savage Opress, in which Sidious was kicked multiple times in the face much harder than Mace kicked Sidious -- and Sidious laughed about it while doing backflips, whereas against Windu he never drew his second lightsaber and pretended to lose to "seduce" Anakin to the Dark Side) all suggest otherwise. Just looking at the moment when Sidious had his lightsaber an inch from Windu's chest, and Windu has a shocked expression on his face as he slowly backs up, shows that Sidious was in control the entire time. That situation wasn't a "close call:" any fencer or swordsman would know, beyond all reasonable doubt, that Sidious had Windu dead to right in that situation (this is without factoring Sidious' far more powerful Force abilities, which could have included yanking Windu closer, momentarily holding back his blade to deliver the fatal thrust, using Force Lightning with his offhand while impaling Windu, using objects in the room to throw at Windu which would have been impossible to react to his a lightsaber already past his guard); it was the real world equivelent of having someone at gunpoint, except you can't miss.
I bring this up because it is entirely possible that Qui-Gon was equal to Mace Windu, without implying he was equal to or greater than Sidious. I actually remember reading that only Yoda and Dooku could beat Qui-Gon, and only Mace could fight him to a draw.
make one of how powerful was count dooku video
Great diplomat, no doubt. A very good Jedi as well and his quickness was good, that point while they were eating and he caught Jar Jar's tongue and said "don't do that again" showed how quick and in tune he was with the force. I would have been interesting if he was still around during Revenge of the Sith. I think with his amazing intuitive sense and being with the force, he could have helped stop Palpatine and maybe prevented Anakin's turn and the fall of the Republic. It would have changed everything.
Sometimes i imagine that it was the will of the force to fall in the darth maul battle.. Through his death he put the Wills knoweldge into practice
Same
And thus The Stupendous Golf Announcer was born
Qui Gon is the dad we all need
Also, Yoda trained Dooku - Dooku trained Qui Gon - Qui Gon trained Obi Wan - Obi Wan trained Anakin
Stupendous!
Wow! Great content as always. Love your channel tons!
How Strong: *Qui-Gon-Gym*
Crazy FLEXXX
Just a quick correction I want to throw in here... The original quote is actually " Jack of all trades, master of one"... Master of none is kind of a parody on the original quote.
8:39 mark; Not only did he command respect, he earned it by his subsequent actions and deeds.
The force didn’t fail him. It led him to save the galaxy!
He was like 200 years old when he fought with maul,and it was very close,I wonder that when he was young how powerful was he.
I like your video. I just think in the part he was meditating right before Darth Maul killed him, he kinda knew he might die and he was using the force to make him live after dying or become a sort of force ghost himself. That's what I always thought about that part.
Qui gon was way powerful than kit fisto . Plo Koon considered him as his equal in lightsaber combat skills ( also plo koon was powerful than fisto ) and better than him in force use and intelligence ( that's why plo koon didn't accepted the high councils seat at first because he thought qui gon will be a better member than him ).
The Jedi Master jinn earned respect and fear of the most powerful force users like _ Yoda, sidious , plagueis and maul.
5.59. Actually the first jedi (padawan) to fight a sith lord after a decade, was Eldra Kaitis (Darth Maul comic)
If I would be a Jedi I would trust in the force like Qui Gon, BUT, I would use my will to bend the force to my will like the Sith when it is needed. Would be something like a Grey Jedi
I always loved Qui-Gon Jin and I really wished there was more material on him. There should be a series on him rather than Obi-Wan.
Dude pls, an ad every 2 minutes is too much
Nothing an add block can't fix
@@AxisChurchDevotee is it possible to learn this power?
Another thing, while Quigon and the jedi had no realistic expectation of ever having to duel a Sith 1v1, Maul was trained heavily just on preparing to kill a Jedi, while Jedi focused on drealing w non force sensitives
I would LOVE to her more about Shak Ti. But as for Qui-Gon I thought he was a fan favorite because was powerful and wise. A final thought relying on the force to guide you through stuff, may not be that bad, if the force tells you it is your time and you follow the force as he did, perhaps he was ready for it or welcomed it, Obi-Wan seemed to do so in episode 4.
From:
starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Qui-Gon_Jinn/Legends
"Ataru was not Jinn's only fighting style, and he had learned other forms of lightsaber combat, possibly to better handle the weaknesses of Form IV. Being apprenticed to Dooku, the greatest master of Makashi of the time, it is apparent that Jinn learned the classical dueling form of Makashi from his master and he was versed enough to effectively incorporate its maneuvers into his dueling style.[181] Not only was Form II more effective against a single lightsaber-wielding opponent,[182] but it was also more grounded,[18] as demonstrated in Jinn's duels with Darth Maul.[3] His knowledge was also great enough that he apparently taught Xanatos how to use Makashi. He seemed to have been well-trained in Shien and Soresu, as he could easily handle blaster-wielding opponents.[3] When he and Kenobi fought Taxer Sundown's hypnotized soldiers, who were wielding training lightsabers,[86] he displayed a level of mastery of Shii-Cho shared with Kit Fisto, albeit at a lesser degree."
Qui-Gon Jinn was just not as prone to the weakness of Ataru.
I wish Qui-Gon could’ve gotten to train Anakin fully. I think the father figure element would have been a lot stronger for Anakin than it was with Obi-Wan. It would have been less likely for Anakin to turn to the dark side, in my opinion. But, there’s continuity issues with that, so whatever....
Great video
I have always thought of Qui-Gon Jinn as one of the best Jedi to ever live he has always been my one of my most favorite characters in the entire franchise and in my personal opinion, Qui-Gon died a hero of Naboo and a hero to the Jedi for ages to come and especially for the Force itself and part of me has always felt like that moment in the Phantom Menace where he meditates during his duel with Darth Maul, he actually knew, somehow, during that duel he would fall but either way he is one of the best Jedi to ever live and one of the many greatest characters and heroes in all of STAR WARS
I feel that Lucasfilm blew it with Qui-Gon Jinn. He was such an interesting and influential character, and he got killed off before the end of his first and only movie. Now the actor is too old to play him in spinoffs, so the only sensible way we can get him again is through an animated series maybe.
Or deep fake
@@JesseTheUno Possibly...
I like how I’m replying to a post a year and a half later. I posted this in October 2019
It showx how highly thought of and so powerful Qui was because even though the council disagreed wuth him, they did not stop him. They wiuld talk about it later
i heard alot of this debate and ive heard cause ataru using large acrobatics that he was at a disadvantage during most of the duel in tight places and small walk ways and that darth maul just outmaneuvered him
I really enjoyed this video.
Well you see he has a particular set of skills
Just imagine how much of a beast Qui Gon Jinn would be if he battled Darth Maul in his prime
Prime jinn would of beat maul, he was said to be out of his prime by the time he took obi wan as a Padawan and obi wan was 12 then
new cannon really seems to be playing with peoples power lvls, obi wan just barely even got selected to be a knight and was originally sent to a jedi farming planet
jack ryan nah Obi-Wan improved it was stated by Mace Windu ,Kenobi became the master of Soresu the third style of light saber combat.
Darth Maul held off 2 Jedi. He doesn't get enough credit. In a 1v1 he would wreck Obi Wan
Actually qui gon jinn did become a force ghost he didn’t finish his training to become a full on force ghost but he is a force ghost but only in a certain place he appeared to master Yoda and told him to go to the planet that he goes in exile and he sees the future of the Jedi order and doesn’t stop it from happening he knows that Anakin Skywalker becomes darth Vader and he also knows that the chancellor is the Sith Lord that everyone was looking for but Yoda doesn’t tell anyone and he doesn’t do anything to stopping it
does it ever occur to anyone that maybe qui gon wasn't going for the kill like maul was and that hindered him and 60 years old for a force sensitive jedi is not old, mace windu was 53 when he defeated Palpatine and qui gon was probably his equal I think you guys are also undercutting mauls skill as he is considered one of the greatest duelists ever