TF2: The Official Pyro Weapons Tier List
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- Опубліковано 5 чер 2024
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Outro Music
Ball Point- Adhesive Wombat
0:00 INTRO
1:03 SPIN THE WHEEL
1:30 EDIT THE TIER LIST
1:53 HOT HAND
4:07 STOCK FLAME THROWER
9:33 DEGREASER
12:38 RAINBLOWER
12:59 NOSTROMO NAPALMER
13:40 STOCK FIREAXE
14:38 LOLICHOP
14:52 STOCK FLARE
16:09 DEMOKNIGHT KNOCKBACK TANGENT
17:30 AXTINGUISER
18:50 POWERJACK
20:20 NEON ANNIHILATOR
21:32 GAS PASSER
24:51 PHLOGISTINATOR
29:48 VOLCANO FRAGMENT
31:39 HOMEWRECKER / MAUL
33:07 PANIC ATTACK
34:00 STOCK SHOTGUN
34:40 RESERVE SHOOTER
36:09 DETONATOR
37:03 MANMELTER
38:25 BACK SCRATCHER
39:19 DRAGON'S FURY
40:12 BACKBURNER
41:28 THERMAL THRUSTER
43:09 3RD DEGREE
44:40 SCORCH SHOT - Ігри
The Sniper Tier list will be LAST. That's why it wasn't on the wheel.
ooo I wonder how that's gonna be
BASED
Interesting tidbit: Gasoline is a terrible conductor of electricity.
Gotta love how the one time TF2 actually follows real-world science and actively neutering literally any and all possibility of the Gas Passer even being good as a gimmick.
And actually, both milk and semen (if we want to be immature about the Mad Milk) are also both very poor electrical conductors, so the Mad Milk technically shouldn't be able to combo with the Neon Annihilator at all, too.
45:04 You're not wrong, it's the best flamethrower ,melee, and flare gun.
Valve please nerf this thing, its a good primary, in the goddamn secondary slot.
inb4 he just puts all the sniper weapons in S tier because of his hateboner for the class
Just throwing this out: Dragons fury + detonator + meele of choice is a really fun to use loadout, if you use it right you can be really mobile and ambush and its really fun to use
Use the volcano fragment as melee for the memes
Agree
@play gray if you practice with it and get good, its REALLY FUN, and the detonator for flare jumping, GOD its just REALLY FUN TO PLAY
i've been running that set for two years now, it's amazing
only using hot hand for the meme of course
alternatively you can use the scorch shot if you want the entire server to hate you
Hot Hand should give you a passive speed boost while out. You're literally empty-handed!
I think the speed boost on hit should be a lot longer instead of being a discounted powerjack
Or perhaps it gives a speed boost to everyone who's getting hit with it, just like the disciplinary action
Let it crit from behind or give it a faster swing speed on hit so you can swing as fast as the eviction notice and maybe faster.
Its just a shittier powerjack then, like how eviction notice is a shittier gru
Give the Hot Hand a speed boost while out and remove the speed boost on the powerjack, but bring back the old 75hp on kill with it.
For the pyros gas passer I think it should be two throwables. One for the gas, same effects, and then a match that can be thrown, it's easy to see because of the gas and now the glowing match, can be dodged easily because of the time to throw the gas and match, and can be noted that your gonna be on fire. Once the match is used in the gas it "consumes" it. So either let it linger for your team, or ignite for quick aoe damage! It would also add a small amount of skill since it would have a heavy arc, and would be super fun!
I hope I never see you ever again
Yeah, I had the same idea. The gas passer would act like the molotov from csgo but only after lit by the match or the flamethrower. You could even keep the match on a low cooldown and have it be a funny but skillful way to light people on fire at a distance while the gas is charging.
That's definitely a fun and interesting idea, also why the hell whenever i see you there is always a bunch if not a lots of hate comment?
@@deathpacito290 ⠀⠀⠘⡀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⡜⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠑⡀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⡔⠁⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠈⠢⢄⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⣀⠴⠊⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢸⠀⠀⠀⢀⣀⣀⣀⣀⣀⡀⠤⠄⠒⠈⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠘⣀⠄⠊⠁⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀ ⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⡿⠿⠛⠛⠛⠋⠉⠈⠉⠉⠉⠉⠛⠻⢿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿ ⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⡿⠋⠁⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠉⠛⢿⣿⣿⣿⣿ ⣿⣿⣿⣿⡏⣀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⣀⣤⣤⣤⣄⡀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠙⢿⣿⣿ ⣿⣿⣿⢏⣴⣿⣷⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢾⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⡆⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠈⣿⣿ ⣿⣿⣟⣾⣿⡟⠁⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢀⣾⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣷⢢⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢸⣿ ⣿⣿⣿⣿⣟⠀⡴⠄⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠙⠻⣿⣿⣿⣿⣷⣄⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⣿ ⣿⣿⣿⠟⠻⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠶⢴⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣧⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⣿ ⣿⣁⡀⠀⠀⢰⢠⣦⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢀⣼⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⡄⠀⣴⣶⣿⡄⣿ ⣿⡋⠀⠀⠀⠎⢸⣿⡆⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⣴⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⠗⢘⣿⣟⠛⠿⣼ ⣿⣿⠋⢀⡌⢰⣿⡿⢿⡀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠙⠿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⡇⠀⢸⣿⣿⣧⢀⣼ ⣿⣿⣷⢻⠄⠘⠛⠋⠛⠃⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢿⣧⠈⠉⠙⠛⠋⠀⠀⠀⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿ ⣿⣿⣧⠀⠈⢸⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠟⠀⠀⠀⠀⢀⢃⠀⠀⢸⣿⣿⣿⣿ ⣿⣿⡿⠀⠴⢗⣠⣤⣴⡶⠶⠖⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⣀⡸⠀⣿⣿⣿⣿ ⣿⣿⣿⡀⢠⣾⣿⠏⠀⠠⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠛⠉⠀⣿⣿⣿⣿ ⣿⣿⣿⣧⠈⢹⡇⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⣰⣿⣿⣿⣿ ⣿⣿⣿⣿⡄⠈⠃⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢀⣠⣴⣾⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿ ⣿⣿⣿⣿⣧⡀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢀⣠⣾⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿ ⣿⣿⣿⣿⣷⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢀⣴⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿ ⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣦⣄⣀⣀⣀⣀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠘⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿ ⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣷⡄⠀⠀⠀⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿ ⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣧⠀⠀⠀⠙⣿⣿⡟⢻⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿ ⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⠇⠀⠁⠀⠀⠹⣿⠃⠀⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿ ⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⡿⠛⣿⣿⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢐⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿ ⣿⣿⣿⣿⠿⠛⠉⠉⠁⠀⢻⣿⡇⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢀⠈⣿⣿⡿⠉⠛⠛⠛⠉⠉ ⣿⡿⠋⠁⠀⠀⢀⣀⣠⡴⣸⣿⣇⡄⠀⠀⠀⠀⢀⡿⠄⠙⠛⠀⣀⣠⣤⣤⠄⠀
Should it be 2 mouse buttons or only 1? Since you're not gonna use the match without the gas being present.
However, what if instead of a match, it's a molotov? The molotov denies an area by itself(like in Counter-Strike), but if thrown into the gas, there's just an explosion without the area denial effect.
I find it pretty funny that you consistently kept calling the Scorch Shot a primary weapon because let's be real, it's basically just a second fucking primary and you only need to pull out your flamethrower when someone's getting close to you or shooting projectiles at you.
hey man i like you're content a lot
Scorch shot/Degreaser basically turns you into a soldier who cant rocket jump but can reflect projectiles
Dude the scorch shot literally does almost nothing besides be annoying. This myth of hyper damage comes from the assumption that the target gets no form of healing/extinguishing for its full duration which just isn’t the case and you know it.
"tHE sCOrcH sHOt iS nOt oP yOu jUSt doDGe tHe pRoJeCtiLe yOU wOUlD'vE dIED iF iT wAS a FlArE gUn oR dEtONaToR, iT'S jUsT aNnoyInG cAUsE iT cAN sTUn"
- Scorch Shot mains
@@Nameless_Cat_IsAGoodGame if you actually use it you’ll realize that it does like no damage and you can just kill faster with a different weapon. It’s not overpowered, just annoying.
Just started watching
Can't wait to see the 10 hour long rant about the Scorch Shot
@thcirblueerf naw
@thcirblueerf Please be sarcastic
That video is scheduled for next week.
It's titled "Zesty has had enough, is ready to Hate Crime certain pyros."
@thcirblueerf You don't miss with the scorch shot. If you hit the large splash, they get set on fire. Hit a direct, guaranteed mini crit.
@thcirblueerf Dude, scorch shot is easy to hit. Just shoot at the ground like a soldier and boom, the enemy is on fire. Thats why I use the detonator even tho im shit at it, atleast im not a pain in the ass to play against
Pyro being able to airblast Ubers is fair because he has to approach an invincible power class in most cases. Pyro has decent health, but not enough to resist getting shredded by a skilled player. Airblast does not remove your weapon. You are still able to fire and kill the Pyro. If he reflects everything you got outplayed. If he's able to repeatedly corner peek you did a crap Uber. Contrary to popular belief holding airblast will just get you killed because the timing becomes predictable and exploitable. Frankly the only classes that have any right to complain about airblast at all are classes that don't have much firepower, but they shouldn't be ubered or be near an enemy Pyro to begin with. If you're having THAT much trouble with a Pyro it's time to switch to Heavy or bring a teammate Heavy with you on your next ubercharge.
But that's just my two cents. I'm some guy in the UA-cam comments who happens to play TF2.
true! oh yeah and honestly if you really hate airblast-happy pyros, just switch to quickfix.
just double the heavy's weight ehen ubered
It's a bit painfull to fight against someone that can just run away after pushing you 50 meters away, only reason why i would decrease its knockback a little bit, at least enough to where a Demoknight can get closer after each airblast
It wouldn't impact his reflecting ability and it would still be good against ubers
@@bruschetta7711 Unless you bounce off some map geometry airblast doesn't send you more than a couple feet back, or up if you flick down. Demoknight doesn't need to be able to braindead hold W and just ignore Pyro's saving grace ability that keeps the class relevant. If you're engaging Pyros as Demoknight you're doing it wrong.
Yeah I play medic a lot and it's fucking annoying when a pyro airblasts my patient away but tbh it's always my patients fault I don't uber a random spy I uber a power class and I really like airblast I don't play pyro a lot but when I do I really enjoy airblasts it's really balanced and fun to use
TLDR: it's balanced but can be annoying when it patient can deal wiht a pyro
Scorch Shot starts with "S" and that is where it belongs... for Shittily OP in the right hands
The best pyro main is here!!!!!
"In the right hands" you mean in ANY hands?
MY GOD THAT INTRO WAS JUST WHAT I NEEDED
Wait what, you're here!?
@@vyor8837 yep!
Ho de fak a y, why do y have 3 comments, I tink I'll call the police on y
I have a question for ya, why did you comment 3 times on one video?
this guy is the most subscriber-hungry person i've seen
Technically speaking, the Rainblower is Pyro’s second direct upgrade since it has a taunt kill.
Nah but its balanced by forced pyrovision
Point towards the Back Scratcher, Medics can still Crossbow you for the same heal rate and using the Medigun helps build Uber.
"Don't let the grind of life get to ya!" Alfie, One man, Two Guvnors.
45:02 the way some pyros use the scorch shot, it's basically another flamethrower that's in their secondary slot, so you aren't wrong at all
Just like some demos use their sticky bomb launcher as primary
@@raul1476 The Demo basically has 2 primary weapons. I think it was supposed to be that way
@@Spanishdog17 he is, and is balanced by you being able to go take a piss in the time it takes to reload
With the scorch shot it basically turns your flamethrower into a secondary that you oly use when someone is on your face, otherwise you're just a somewhat worse soldier
I feel like it would at least play slightly better against if it was like a incendiary grenade primary for pyro
I like the idea of the phlog doing mini crits when you charge it, but the secondary fire EATS rockets rather than throws them back. Make it cost more ammo to use too for a stronger balance con.
Unlike the engineers shorter circuit, soldiers and demos KNOW pyros can disrupt their damage almost always, engineers that use the short circuit are annoying because you don't initially expect it, making you sour.
Would give you more damage up close. In shorter bursts at the cost of any range damage while also doing your job as pyro and making it not melt teams too quickly for more counterplay.
ayo its the woo
Great opinion, unfortunately you have an anime/vtuber PFP.
I know you're talking more about the phlog but I just wanna add that the short circuit is also more annoying cause it's a massive damaging orb that travels in a straight line and deletes literally any projectiles. There is no need for timing.
@@ekyanso4253 right right, forgot to mention that part, I guess I was talking about the old one and forgot the new one did that for some reason haha
@@breakingjadenofficialaccou6198 is me 😎
A few things:
1. Every primary unlock sacrifices airblast potential. I’d like to see at least one that buffs airblasting at the cost of something else.
2. I know you have reservations about a simple molotov cocktail dishing out free area denial at no real cost or effort, but what if it used flamethrower ammo instead of just regenerating out of thin air?
3. I’d really like to see what would happen if the stats of the Manmelter and Third Degree were swapped. Imagine if the Manmelter could damage and ignite across healing beams but had no crits or mini-crits against burning targets, no splash radius, and no random crits. Imagine if the Third Degree could absorb afterburn off of allies to gain crits like the diamond back or frontier justice (maybe reduce base damage against players?) but no random crits.
What if there was a flamethrower that allowed you to basically rocket jump lowering damage to yourself or something
@@eggman3908 just use jetpack
The ideas sound kinda interesting
What about for the second idea, it would lower the max ammo for your primary rather than consuming ammo?
@@eggman3908 so the detonator?
Tbh a primary that sacrifices something else, maybe like base damage for airblast potential sounds interesting. I've heard of a scrapped flamethrower with the model visible on some Valve art. It's designed dark green with white highlights, so maybe that one? For air theme?
Edit: HAHA FUNNI JOKE GUYS XD XD XD. I'M LAUGHING SO MUCH RIGHT NOW BC EVERYONE KEEPS SAYING "NOTED" AND IT'S SOOOOO EPIC!!!!! IT HASN'T GOTTEN OLD OR ANNOYING AT AAAAAAAAAALL YET HAHAHAHA!!! FUCK EVERY SINGLE ONE OF YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Original: I'm irrationally turned on by the Bionicle collection in the background; I've grown out of most of the shit I liked as a kid, but that series is one that's always stuck with me and I still have a soft spot for it.
noted
Edit: bruh why did it send that twice?
noted
noted
noted
Noted
I like team colored flames idea
I think Cream Spirit color pallet is perfect for that
On RED the flames will be orange and on BLU it will be yellow
My solution to the Scorch Shot would make its reload time longer so it’s harder to spam, but still performs well as a long range harassment tool as Pyro desperately needs one of those for snipers and sentries
Or remove the bounce mechanic and give it the damage of the detractor, the slow stun could still be a decent harass for any movement classes
That would be ok, but with also a slower weapon's change, since it have the auto reload while is unactive
@@danielsalvadornoriegavilla7900 (won't lie I don't play TF2, just kinda absorb information slowly), do Flare guns have a charge to launch?
Cause making you need to charge it for any good distance (And as such increase the charge time), could also be decent.
I on the other hand wouldn't change the scorchshot but instead make the DETONATOR explode on impact ALSO. And make it destroy the projectiles like the scorchshot.
@@dilophoraptordouble If you're thinking of a charge like with Stickybomb Launchers, where holding M1 allows the sticky to fly further away, flare guns don't have that. You just press M1, and they're travel the same way.
The neon annihilator takes two hits to remove sappers while the homewrecker takes one. So in that regard, the homewrecker is the better sapper removing weapon. Also, the changes to flamethrower particles kinda ruined the backburner because now landing hits to the back with it is now more inconsistent and janky which makes it harder to get the crits even when you’re behind an enemy.
That's not how it works, the flame particles changes didn't affect the backburner
I get crits with it when I'm in front of them
Hey man I just wanted to say, you accidentally introduced me to Touhou through your Battalion's video. I checked out the intro's song and ended up falling in love with the games, thanks dude
Welcome to one of the oldest communities on the internet dude! Hope you're enjoying thingsz cuz you'll be here forever
Just don't be too much of a secondary.
@@trabant3060 there's a joke that I'm missing here
@@leonardo9259 actually play the games to get an appreciation for the media dude, there's not much too it.
yuck
Scorch Shot is, more or less, a Rocket launcher with tick damage and stun on hit with a faster projectile speed. Able to destroy stickies and catch spies easily. Rewards you for aiming like a jackass
And that's why it's rad as fuck😎🔥
AND has a bounce after the shot. Now, if the bounce was an alt fire instead of primary, that would make it less of a jerkbag weapon.
As is, the Scorch Shit is balanced like an upgraded MvM weapon.
important note
u have to actually hit a player to apply knockback/bounce
@@benismann well, yeah. What about it? You think many of us here don't know this? I assume each and every one of us here know this as we all are familiar with the weapon. I suppose it is sort of hard to frag someone without hitting a projectile directly or some sort of splash damage
What's funnier is that I didn't mention the full afterburn duration or the ability to mini crit twice. Or the fact this thing hits invisible spys way to much due to its play style being "Aim like a jackass, and when you do aim like a champ, expect the enemy to burn and complain."
The original TF Quake mod had a molotov cocktail that set the ground on fire and you'd take damage if you ran through it. It worked well. It wasn't so strong that people wouldn't run through it, but it would keep snipers and spies out of a certain areas. It was real common to pitch it up onto the 2fort sniper deck to give your team cover to run across the bridge (the old 2fort didn't have the roof over the bridge).
The cultured legend has uploaded once again! This time having to suffer for us by playing pyro but I always adore seeing you upload.
and why prey tell is he a man of culture.
oh his avatar is a big titty anime muscle girl. Say no more. He is a man of culture indeed
@@ieuanhunt552 Lol I fucking love how you knew what I meant when I called him a man of culture, see men of culture think alike but he's also quite based.
My tought for a scorch shot rework is to only be able to explode when it bounced, it remains unique but you actually have to aim to take the full advantage of the mechanic.
Maybe remove the knockback aswell idk
The knockback is actually important though, especially when combating a really agressive player/combo trying to focus you. It's really the only reliable weapon at giving you some distance to run away if you can aim.
@@compatriot852 or... you know... airblast...
Just remove the mini crit. It was totally balanced when it came out in 2012 but Valve buffed it for no reason.
@@e-goblinyou have to be up close for that tho
Great list, I think my only thing I would add is you didn't mention how the Back Scratcher can help Medics build uber quicker because of the decreased heal rate
Plus crossbow is immune to the heal penalty for the back scratcher so 1 or 2 shots and the pyro is at full health
and this reminds me of my idea that the medic needs all his slots to do healing. primaries and melees having some sort of healing alt fire would make the non crossbow primaries actually have supportive use.
@@ZaTrapu
Wait, really? Holy fuck!
@@DinnerForkTongue yep a back scratcher pyro being heale by a crossbow is not affected by the reduced healing from non-health pack sources stat
@@ZaTrapu
As if the Crossbow wasn't superior enough to literally every Medic primary... So if you have a rake roamer (TM), pop him with a bolt when you see him?
I love that the caber can't one shot a light class in melee range while the scorch shit can do it at any range
No it can't? Only does 60-ish damage plus afterburn, which can theoretically kill a light class but afterburn can be removed by health packs, dispensers, medics, etc. Not saying it isn't overpowered, but it can't one shot a light class.
@@kermitenthusiast485
And you're discounting direct hits... why?
@@kermitenthusiast485 The scorch shot can hit you twice potentially dealing 120 damage which is pretty close to a oneshot, the reason why the caber gets a pass is because it only effects Snipers who aren't paying any attention, meanwhile the scorch shot is an annoying hit stun weapon that can be used from any range on people who are paying attention and is mainly used on any poor sap that the Pyro sees.
@@DinnerForkTongue I'm not? It does 20 damage on direct hit, plus 26 on the second hit, for 46 damage. Even on a crit, that's still only 86 (I think, not sure if it also crits on the way down) damage, which yes, with afterburn, that can kill a light class quite easily, however so can most things on a crit.
@@linear1224 see above
Just give the Gas Passer a much weaker version of the mvm explosion and it'll be good. Probably not better than the other secondaries but it'd have a dedicated purpose.
As for the scorch shot just remove the minicrits and increase the damage penalty. It'll do almost no damage but have utility.
I think the no minicrits and the normal damage penalty is fine already
I agree, better crowd control and easier afterburn with less damage. I love pyro, but the scorch shot is way too easy to abuse
Remove the bounce when it hits an enemy, remove minicrits on burning targets. Keep knockback being stronger on burning targets though. Just do that and it's already balanced.
@chegg jeff yeah that sounds cool
I think gas passer should last a little longer and recharge a little faster, it could be really good for chokes
I'mma just leave this here, but I think the only, ONLY change the Scorch Shot needs is removing the bouncing flare. That's it. It's perfect when you remove the bouncing flare from the equation.
Edit: Oh, also remove it's ability to destroy stickies
Agreed.
It looks cool, but the weapon could really do without it.
Either that or balance the damage and whatnot around the bounce. Preferably the latter I feel. Uniqueness is cool.
bouncing flare is from meet the pyro though, it should stay because of that. i'd rather they remove mini crits and further reduce direct damage
That, or make only one of the two hits capable of inflicting afterburn?
Also the ability to minicrit, and it should only deal knockback on burning targets, but remove the damage penalty
Yep I freaking hate that bouncing flare. It's totally bs
Yoooo, is that an acid notation remix in the intro!? Love his stuff, y'all should go listen to more of it.
Volcano fragment buff suggestion:
On hit: Afterburn
20% Faster swing speed
Damage ramps up the more times you hit a burning target up to 200% (+50% first swing and +75% on the second for a total of 200% on the third swing onwards)
25% less damage
I'd propose completely different thing.
- Keep current penalties
+ Hitting burning target makes it burn until healed.
+ Hitting burning target creates a small (no damage) explosion that sends you flying back.
The force you get thrown back is akin to getting airblasted and at around 45 degree and is airstrafeable for you.
It would turn the weapon as a nasty finisher that, if doesnt finish the enemy, puts his life on a timer and possibly saves you by launching you back. As an ambusher you jump out, burn, hit, fly back behind some cover.
Flavor-wise we could tie it to some volcano eruption or some shit.
The new Tank buster in MvM
@@NPC-ch3vw Well, i think it's a cool concept but it would be anoying because it has the same stats as the Scorch Shot + infinite afterburn untill healed. My idea lt's like a Dragon's Fury on meele
Scorch shot launches the enemy making him extremely vulnerable during that, my Volcano Fragment version launches only Pyro away from the enemy while putting him on timer. It doesnt mess with the enemy mobility in any way.
Your version looks frankly op and gameplay-wise is the same combo you use with Axetinguisher, with the latter doing the job arguably better.
My version is more of the "Oh shit" escape button if pyro got in close quarters with someone he doesnt want to be with. And it puts the enemy on risk of pursuing the pyro thank to the infinite burn. Or it allows sudden menuevers, for example using the selfinlicted knockback launch to shorten the distance to the next enemy.
Its more of the burst mobility option unlike Powerjack that is used for general movement across the map to the frontlines or ambush spots, nor its a killing finisher like Axetinguisher, sentry nest defender Homewrecker or enviroment-dependent Neon Annihilator. Or no-medic team Scratcher.
That way it gets its own niche and adds some noticeable change on the Pyro gameplay.
_I think the obvious thing to do with the Gas passer Is: Lower the charge time, half the required damage, and add the mvm fire burst for 30 damage._
50, for funni trollage
I would agree that the knock back on the air blast needs…..tweaking.
95% of this game needs tweaking but valve doesn't care
I think it's fine, just slightly reduce the hitbox so you can't get pushed away if you are behind the pyro
@butterfly fade pretty damn close
@@puddin555 I legit once got airblasted on the doublecross battlements by a pyro that randomly airblasted from the stairs underneath it, like he had no direct line of sight to me (I looked at the replay too)
I (not a game designer) think a good nerf for the scorch shot would be:
-shorter degreaser-like afterburn to players in the blase radius
-mini crits only the burning payer that is hit directly with the flare
-no self knockback
-removes sticky bombs
i like that it can remove sticky bombs because, if implemented well, that would make it more of a support weapon for pybros protecting their engi's nest or clearing sticky traps, at the cost of a flare gun/shotgun that could actually deal decent damage or a movement tool like the jetpack or the detonator.
plus aesthetically speaking, it would pair very well with the homewrecker..
Lucky for me, Pyro is my main. So I’m glad he’s first
A Pyro combo'ing the Degreaser and Panic Attack is terrifying
Thing can shred a heavy within seconds
Cowboy bebop thumbnail? Based.
I think the Hot Hand would be a usable meme weapon with just one change. Make landing both hits increase the speed boost duration. Then you could keep zooming around and slapping people.
That sounds hilarious, and fits the weapon. Good job!
I feel like I've said this on another video on this channel, but I really love hearing completely different takes from what I've heard from different people. Like about the airblast on demoknight, or even just in general, I've heard people say they'd rather have the old airblast because of how far the new one can send you flying.
Also, the topic of balancing pyro's melees is another point of interest for me just because of how rare it is for a pyro to need to use his melee compared to other classes. They pretty much all need to have some form of utility to keep up with the rest, leaving the stock in a position where there's very little that can actually be done to make it ever worth using. Some people are okay with that, but I'd rather every weapon have at least some actual use.
I feel like neon annihilator deserves a bit higher since you can actually airblast jarate and mad milk back at enemies to count them wet so it's actually kind of terrifying against bushwacker jarate snipers
I’ll always hold that the degreaser tops the stock as all it’s downsides can be completely circumvented with competency
I mean sketcheck literally said that the degreaser is an upgrade to stock
You can't increase afterburn damage on demand, if the enemy gets away, he will most likely live where the stock might have killed him
Plus the same argument can be made to stock as the switch speed it's still ok with Panik attack
The Degreaser also works really well with hitting flare crits against other pyros. With the stock's switch speed, it's much harder to do the flame into flare gun combo.
32:33
you know everyone says that, but a pyro just MELTS through building health
yeah
True, but like any other target the pyro can only really deal that good damage when way up close, engineers that get their nests destroyed easily by a pyro just picked a bad spot
@@whatastandupguy3050 reflect, to launch my rockets back, and for some reason they all have the ability to land on top of my sentry gun and do that weird circle dance ritual where the sentry can't fire at them . . . also for some reason medics really like ubering pyros no matter how bad the pyro is.
Degreaser is better than stock in most situations, certainly better for combo pyros because you have quicker access to your airblast (easier to close distance, better defence vs projectiles, easier/quicker to react to enemies at close range, etc). On top of that the downsides are rarely felt, with ammo being plentiful, and afterburn being so easily put out by so many things nowadays. Stock perhaps is better on defence in some cases though
Dragons Fury above Degreaser is a little weird lol but definitely a super fun weapon, Reserve Shooter crazy underrated, actually pretty strong in a lot of situations but that -2 ammo is annoying though
Homewrecker should be A tier or even in Broken tier, its hilariously strong lmao, a spy already has to get past all of your spychecking flames, then if he even manages to make it to the engineer's building and saps + stabs the engi, a Pyro rolls up and just invalidates all that work with a single swing lol. Meme tier OP weapon
Overall great video, great list, liked and subbed cheers
Homewrecker is too situational to be OP whereas power jack, axtisguisher, or backscratcher can be frequently utilized and that's what make them good melee options.
Really enjoyed this video, especially the discussion about the Degreaser. As I mainly use the Degreaser, using Stock just feels clunky and slow for me, especially when I need to switch back to my primary to deal extra flame damage. Also I find that the afterburn penalty can be somewhat negated if you're using the Flare Gun, as that will deal full normal afterburn. However, you are right in saying that using the Degreaser forces you to rely more on your secondary as the stats very much encourage that you do so.
One other thing I'd like to add is that you mentioned Medieval Mode in passing on the Volcano Fragment. While it is undisputed the best place to use it, I feel that the Back Scratcher is just better in every way, simply because you have increased damage and the small health packs on kill give you way more health than they otherwise would.
Overall, solid video, keep up the great content mate!
"Third degree is my fave pyro melee weapon" Glad Zesty is based.
You could make the gas cloud explode when ignited and have the cloud instantly disappear. Not like MvM, where the enemy explodes, the cloud itself, encouraging you to be aggressive and running into the enemy when playing with it.
The suggestion I've heard before and liked is the idea of the phlog only charging on flamethrower damage. That way, it removes the "stand behind the frontlines and spam the scorch shot" factor and forces pyros to actually deal with the downside of having no airblast outside of when they are being ubered.
On the Thermal Thruster, I find that it's also balanced due to it's unique sound sound effect when a player launches into the air. The scream of its thrusters is loud enough I can hear it over the sound on sentry and minigun fire even in the halls of 2fort.
Also, it is so so so satisfying to use the Backburner crits against other Pyros.
19:53 To balance the powerjack I think increasing the holster time makes much more sense than increasing the deploy time. Increasing the holster time would punish you for getting caught with it out for the movement increase, but also if you fail to finish off the enemy like the axtinguisher's holster penalty. Increasing the deploy time on the other hand would interfere with the second scenario of using it as a finisher.
The 25 health on kill is less than a small health kit and isn't really worth going for, so I'd like to see the health on kill buffed up to 50 if not the old 75 to restore its role as a viable finisher. Counter-balance that with a slower swing speed to punish failing to secure a kill on the first swing, remove random crits, and maybe up the damage vulnerability a bit to 25% and I think the powerjack would be a very strong dual-role option that is harsh if you misuse it.
The powerjack is fine it doesn't need a buff or a nerf
Zesty Jesus's voice is just *chefs kiss
mesmerizing, I would totally buy an audiobook with your voice
For me, I think the gas passer should be a melee that has no actual attack, and the primary attack button should allow you to pour out gas to douse people in a decent radius, and depletes the meter, then the right click should have a explode on hit like in MVM but only does like 50 damage, and the explosion should apply 20 per tick, 5 second afterburn
I think the reason they gave the degreaser a afterburner nerf was that it IS a combo tool, and it only nerfs the flamethrowers afterburn, and not the flare guns, meaning if you set someone on fire for the bonus, then hit them with a flare, the nerf is removed, it’s actually a really smart idea that hones in the degreasers speciality, vicious combo attacks.
I’ll say it again, but I think the SVF should deal more damage to non-burning players. It would be a combo starter, and it would be a good option in pyro duels.
@Marcus Vinícius Da Rosa You use the axtinguisher as a finisher, this SVF would be used as a starter, too bad the Back Scratcher already do that, kinda
45:29 this is the most genuine "why?" I've heard in my life.
potential scorch shot fix: reduce or remove the knockback and have the projectile explode on impact (ie: you hit someone directly, they are pushed back a little and the flare blows up lighting them and anyone around on fire like a detonator rclick)
can't wait to see the other tier lists
The Volcano Fragment should be a combo weapon, it is a combo that does massive afterburn damage. So an example, flamethrower adds 4 per tick, hit them with the fragment while they are on fire and now it does 12 or 16 per tick, would be a odd way to quickly melt people and would be different for sure!
Woo out here poggers
@@alexlovesyouvt34 hi :)
Yet Vorebey demonstrated that the scorch shot deals consistently less damage than the detonator
I like the detonator for a rather specific reason, normally medics hide behind their target making them impossible to hit with a normal flare, but with the detonator I can send the flare above the heal target and detonate above the medic.
And this is why it boggles me that Zesty put it at B tier and not A tier. The Detonator, if you are skilled with it, is VERY precise to the point where it is undodgeable.
Wow, great job on this Zesty!
20:47
Well yes, but the neon removes sappers in 3 hits, which is awful in my opinion, and you know, a 5% differance in damage is not that noticible, but yeah, it's cool af and it has it's uses
Two hits
@@SoldierMan755 really? I remember it was 3
@@pybro8802 nope it's two. Same as a wrench
Three hits is the Jag.
pyroshark gaming
With Halloween going on I'm reminded that the Nostromo Napalmer set is hilariously good against scouts wearing the Alien set. It kills scouts in just a couple seconds. The downside is pretty much negligible if you're paying attention too. Trying to get in melee range of a pyro as scout is a bad even without the item damage bonus.
40:15 The Backburner is my go to flamethrower alongside the homewrecker and scorch shot. The reason it has consistently f-ed over dead ringer spies. With each nerf the DR has had, this thing has been a better and better punish tool. When you combine the 3 together, you can REALLY puppydog your engineer. BB and HW against spies, and the Scorch Shot against spies if they speed past your effective flamethrower range, but also against sticky spamming demos. And if you get pocketed by a medic, the first reaction people have is to run away from the Pyro, which means they get melted in an instant.
I totally agree with your suggestions on the flamethrower, but I would add four things.
Reflected projectiles only mini-crit the shooter, to not kill light classes with just one shot.
Replace the ramp up system with seven fixed damage per particle because it is currently broken.
Reduce the lifespan of the fire particles to prevent the pyro from spinning the mouse like crazy.
Increase the range of the flamethrower a bit.
Homewrecker would be interesting if sentries did slightly less damage to you and less knockback. Incentivize using the other building damage buff stat. Would also make peaking sentries to reflect the rockets a little less risky. I still love using the reserve shooter, shooting soldiers out of the sky and reflecting a rocket while following up with a mini crit will be eternally satisfying.
The suggestions you made regarding the visuals with Pyro's flamethrower have been done in Team Fortress 2 Classic to some extent, and I much prefer the flame particles in TF2C overall because of such.
Zesty (5:25 for those curious): Ubered players should get some knockback resistance
The Quick-Fix: Am I a joke to you?
Hear me out, what if you made Volcano Fragment a primary? Obviously you'd have to buff it to hell, but I think it could really fun! Right-clicking would allow you to cut projectiles out of the air (using the critical hit swing for animation.)
Does this mean I can live the dream of having double melee weapons in Mediaval mode?
@@Nameless_Cat_IsAGoodGame | Yes it would. Just imagine...
Volcano frag into axtinguisher
I'd like to see how the team colored flames turn out when in play. For me, I think the pyro doesn't really need it, I mean most rockets aren't teamcolored and bullets aren't team colored.
I think either it wouldn't effect gameplay that much or or it could put pyro at a slight disadvantage because he's an ambush class and yknow the team colored flames could give him away, but I mean once you're being burned you already know you're facing an enemy so i don't really know
The man melter is very underrated but I like it, it reenforces being a team player and pairs very nicely with the Dragon fury
really god vid, excited to see the next ones and i might even try to catch the streams
The gas passer was meant to combo with the dragon's fury shorter afterburn, moreover with the dragon's fury you cannot as easily spycheck due to the shots being in a precise direction and slow, sometimes to find a spy while using it, throwing a gas passer in the general area is a good idea. So its not completely useless
2:14 WHATTTT!?? You put the hothand in E TIER?! It’s OBVIOUSLY SSSSSSS+ tier. You can hold other weapons when you have the hot hand on! Obviously the best
The degreaser afterburn really don't matter if you spam them with the scorch shot or aim the flaregun and quicker reflexes to airblast explosives is better than your enemies dying to afterburn
When zesty is talking about the gas passer he looks like he is about to cry
He's getting war flashbacks of making that gas passer video
amazing job with the intro
You take on the flamerthrower is interesting, Medic is already the most influential class in the game, so I'm honestly fine with giving pyro the tools to counter him, either with airblasting an ubercharge, or with flames reducing healing. As a Soldier main, Airblast is annoying... but I run the shotgun most of the time anyways, so as long as I can aim my shots it's fine (I usually can't though).
If airblast is gonna be worse against Uber, it needs a different counter in my opinion. Stock uber is already the best one.
This is my favorite thumbnail by you yet. You always make cool thumbnails.
A thing to note for the back scratcher is that the medic can build uber faster without having to pull it out like the escape plan or the equalizer
I feel like the scorch shot needs a faster reload time and extra damage vs engineer buildings. It really feels weak compared to the detonator or shotguns
@@jimmyrustler5801 are you guys actually dumb, the scorch shot can hit twice with a single shot.... the other 2 can't the 2nd hit literally negates it's damage penalty
@@koyahspandemopan9867 what are you talking about? Scorch shot is like stock bat levels of strong, it needs a buff ASAP
yeah, i think the scorch shot should just give you stock uber while holding it
@@Josuemaneiros7 agreed, honestly, they should also just make it so that both shots full crit, I mean, it’s super hard to actually get any mileage out of, so you should be rewarded when it does hit
@@limevolt7618 They should also instantly kill everyone when they spawn
Holy crap, this man is not even a Pyro main at all, but he still managed to be much better than WAMO who literally main Pyro and made a video about Pyro but he isn’t even that good
I think is enough of talk about WAMO and even in the start he say: "Opinion" if you are more agree with him its ok, also i pretty agree with him just stop talking about WAMO i have bad memorys
@@justdem1490 pssst dude, it's a month ago, I already stop talking about him. Just forget it, he's out of drama now
Holy shit the Acid Notation remix in the intro, damn that is a blast from the past! Not to mention the video is great too!
I was watching a vid of your reviewing the dragons fury before this, can’t wait to see it at the top
Zesty’s pronunciation of “niche” is broken and needs to be reworked
Hopefully you’re doing ok rn zesty
Good job in not crying this episode
Ideas for gas passer:
- Afterburn lasts much longer or is even permanent unless you get healed by something.
- Afterburn deals more damage OR can be stacked with other afterburn sources.
- Upon landing, instead of instantly coating the area in gas, it slowly leaks out and the gas cloud lasts muuuuuch longer to add to the area-denial aspect without being annoying because of a lack of advance warning.
Basically, I think the idea of the gas being a short-term area denial tool is really interesting, but in its current state, it doesn't last long enough or deal enough damage to justify being scared of walking through it, IMO.
[edit]: I'm also okay with the recharge time if it were a better item overall, not so much in it's current state.
LET ME KNOW WHAT YOU THINK I LOVE REPLIES OM NOM SO TASTY
What if the cloud was ignitable by pyro exploding and dealing about 70 damage to anyone caught in it and then give afterburn. Take the charge down to 40 seconds and takes 400 damage to charge up then you will have a MUCH better item that does what it’s intended to do, area denial.
@@hgdd2422 So kinda like 'Explode on Ignite' from MvM? The only problems I have with that is that you, as the pyro have to stick around to ignite it, meaning you can't retreat unless you let the gas go to waste, plus as soon as you ignite it the gas obviously can't be applied to anyone else, it just gets consumed immediately.
This seems like more of a short-range combo feature which is cool if that's what you're going for, because the only way pyro can deal heavy damage to a large group is mindlessly M1-ing into a crowd which you'll almost never get away with.
If it wasn't for the pyrovision i would always use the rainblower because it has a AOE taunt kill. But i just can't stand it.
Same for the lollichop, it has a unique taunt, but i don't want pyrovision on
You can disable pyrovision in configs
What's wrong with provision
Around 17:10 ish, Why not give the shields knockback resistance, But the Eyelander and its Reskins receive a Knockback Vulnerability downside instead to counteract it?
I've noticed a lot of Anti-Knockback Resistance is always about the Eyelander and yeah its honestly a stupid weapon. But i don't think the other 4 melees should be easily countered because of the Eyelander.
Shield bash + weapon crit oneshots an heavy, while spy can do the same he can't charge you from a mile away and hit you in the face, so its balanced, same with sniper, dont walk in his sightline and you won't die, but if you reduce or remove knockback from a demoknight how are you going to stop him from oneshotting you without juggling or moving him around in other ways? Are you going to kill a 200hp (with booties) demo charging at you with all his shield's resistances and that can't be airblasted/launched in the air, in one second or less? That's not gonna happen, you will just die and there's nothing you can do about it. That's overpowered.
I personally vote that sheilds give melee random crit immunity not KB resist
@@revenantghost724 i said Resistance, Not Immunity. Even then Demoknight is incredibly weak, Only overpowered in Pubs because of the damn Eyelander.
Demoknight get 1 195 Crit. Demoman has 12 Projectiles that all do 100 Damage, Its barely a competition
@@neptuniamarina4924 demoknight is incredibly weak ONLY because you can push him around, if you give him pushback resistance he's going to be "a spy that can charge you from a mile away and hit you in the face" that would be broken
The powerjack having a switch speed penalty is great it adds synergy to the item set its apart of
31:24 "It has its own Nietzsche uses"
Lmao I'm dead 🤣
Yes
No
Maybe so
@@gentleseal1778 ☹️
1st guy
@@Jrsonicyt-is-weird I am
I think the powerjack should have a deploy speed penalty similar to the Atomizer
After watching the whole video I agree with all your placements and suggestions.
For Scorch Shot I would remove the stun lock and explosion of you MISS it will still explode after you hit someone with it but, they can still get away since no stun and you don’t get set ablaze by being near it. Kind of like a direct hit scorch shot but that might apply to the flare gun so IDK. Keep it destroying stickies but since there is no explosion unless you hit someone near stickies it will require direct hits on them.
What do you think ?
Question:
Doesn't the Hot Hand do a similar thing to the Holy Mackerel where it shows hits in the killfeed, meaning it can be used for spychecks in medieval mode or if you're using something like the dragon's fury with one of the flare guns?
Airblast being strong is fine. Like, stopping an Uber is a thing people complain about???? Really??? The thing with LITERALLY no weakness other than the ability to be knockedback, has a counter, so airblast is too strong? If you don't want to be knockedback just use the quick fix lmao. If Uber was knockback immune like quick fix, it would literally have no counter than to run and hide, which would be a terrible game mechanic. Same way vaccinator has no melee resistance and the ability to go through single-damage barriers quickly, the quick fix provides no burst damage/focus fire resistance and the Kritzkrieg is simply guaranteed crit damage, the stock Uber has a weakness.
He said it in the video, fire drastically lessens your healing which can be bad since you are always on focus fire when u r ubered
@@mrprick4693 well yeah, fire reducing healing has been a mechanic for a while, stops fast healing from stuffing any attempt for a Pyro to deal damage outside of a shotgun or crit flare. But focus fire is like, the difference maker between stock uber (as well as headshots, crits, stacked stickies and backstabs) and quick fix, where airblast and the ability to heal half a 12-man team to full HP in 8 seconds is the difference for quick fix. Also, realistically, a Pyro shouldn't even be an issue for Uber if it's used properly. Decisively Ubering a projectile class, vs a Pyro, with no teammates to ensure the Pyro is dead, is simply poor Uber usage and as such, should be punished.
@@potato1341 eh sure
Intro was incredible, 11/10 more please
i've just started watching; i sorta thought one of the gimmicks of the quick-fix is that it's immune to airblast though. think it's good for airblast to be a counter, base uber is so powerful that it deserves that counter at least
I think the reason why you see the Nostromo Napalmer sometimes used is because it has a notably smaller view model. Some people using it just like having a less cluttered screen.