AI in Melee is broken.

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  • Опубліковано 21 лис 2024

КОМЕНТАРІ • 308

  • @michaelfradley6950
    @michaelfradley6950 Рік тому +1409

    heh,heh,h,h,e,hhmmm ,,, bimg head nana
    ::)))

  • @MisterZebra42
    @MisterZebra42 Рік тому +2459

    I learned more about Nana from this 5 minute video than I have in 8 years of watching Melee

    • @_Majunior
      @_Majunior Рік тому +27

      Fiction has a really good video on her if you're ever curious. Unlike most of his educational content, it's really well edited and has nice illustrations to go along with it.

    • @michaelfradley6950
      @michaelfradley6950 Рік тому +23

      Tbf most melee commentators would be 2 games through a bo5 by the time they were through saying all this, and that’s assuming they can project these helpful visuals directly into your brain to speed up the data transfer

    • @_Majunior
      @_Majunior Рік тому +13

      @@michaelfradley6950 never mind the fact that most make commentators don't even know this stuff. I always end up muting the commentary when IC are on the screen because they just share misinformation or assume things that are wrong. I'm not blaming them for not knowing but it's pretty annoying when they try to act like it.

    • @Mrfinch9999
      @Mrfinch9999 Рік тому +1

      You should try playing it too. Melee is much more fun to play.

    • @nathandude100
      @nathandude100 Рік тому

      Same

  • @markg2142
    @markg2142 9 місяців тому +275

    the level 9 bots are essentially frame perfect 9 year olds

    • @kh6853
      @kh6853 4 місяці тому +29

      That is an amazing description of them

  • @OtrTrash
    @OtrTrash Рік тому +413

    Nana grabs you by the throat, smacks you once, and whispers softly in your ear, "Tonight. You," just before she vanishes in a puff of smoke... Truly terrifying.

    • @lasercraft32
      @lasercraft32 7 місяців тому +23

      I would never sleep again.

    • @Alfenium
      @Alfenium 2 місяці тому +2

      She is going to administer some correction 💢💢!!

  • @turndownforwalt
    @turndownforwalt Рік тому +692

    Love how you blended your current design work/colors with these explanations. Great work as usual!

  • @elbarnes
    @elbarnes Рік тому +166

    I love how, with Zain being so shook from the grab and it getting cut short, it seems like the only thing that prevented Nana from continuing to be a menace is the respawn she goes through where she’s forced to blip out of existence mid-attack to return to popo

    • @andredominguez3199
      @andredominguez3199 4 місяці тому +5

      So you're telling me that Nana alone solos the entirety of the Smash Gods?

  • @winkone101
    @winkone101 Рік тому +1102

    My heart breaks for HBox. Basically the Melee equivalent of "no one wanted to be my partner, so I had to partner with the teacher".

    • @wolizuka
      @wolizuka Рік тому +206

      HBox would be more the type of guy to chose to team up with a CPU rather than with a mid to high level player. I'm sure dozens of people would have been happy to team with him cause he's good at the game and famous

    • @PhrozenFox
      @PhrozenFox Рік тому +90

      @@wolizuka He's also just a genuinely cool and good-hearted person in a sea of controller smashers and shit talkers.

    • @leaffinite2001
      @leaffinite2001 Рік тому +33

      ​@PhrozenFox guy who just watched the emplemon doc says what?

    • @bumpersincapped
      @bumpersincapped Рік тому +24

      ​@@PhrozenFoxbro fainted on stream after a popoff

    • @musicaldoge9412
      @musicaldoge9412 Рік тому +1

      what

  • @vocel343
    @vocel343 Рік тому +470

    Nana really grabbed this man, looked him in the eyes and said: "This ain't over. Imma kill you in my next life." And then disappeared
    Striking fear into the heart of Zain.

  • @B-R23
    @B-R23 Рік тому +621

    dude you are so good at editing

  • @herobrineharry7698
    @herobrineharry7698 Рік тому +340

    3:11 I would be really interested to see if changing this (having Nana at level 9 always being the obvious) would meaningfully change how people have to deal with ice climbers

    • @megapussi
      @megapussi Рік тому +6

      It would probably make it a little bit harder to get low% kills on nana, which could end up being relevant considering that killing nana quickly is a really effective strategy to beat icies for most of the cast

    • @hadesthegod9181
      @hadesthegod9181 Рік тому +85

      That’s what I’m thinking. Or at least have it be every 10%. As it is, you’re rarely going to get a Nana that grabs (120%+)

    • @bastian_5975
      @bastian_5975 Рік тому +34

      two other little tweaks could be to change the follow target for nana to the enemy if popo was in a screen/star KO, and changing the pathfinding AI so that Nana will slightly prioritize paths that get within range of the enemy so that she will attack a bit more often.
      Edit: I reread this while watching a video of Baba is You, and I thought I was talking about characters from that game and got very confused

    • @stephendonovan9084
      @stephendonovan9084 Рік тому +25

      @@bastian_5975When the Popo be above 120%: Nana Is Grab

    • @Buglin_Burger7878
      @Buglin_Burger7878 Рік тому +16

      Yes because getting them split suddenly makes it 2v1 and level 9 AIs are effective in duos.

  • @matthewwojtechko1946
    @matthewwojtechko1946 Рік тому +82

    As a kid playing Melee, observing the CPU’s behavior was always intriguing. Fascinating deep dive here!

  • @CrispyGFX
    @CrispyGFX 8 місяців тому +10

    Nana doing what is effectively a pump fake before dematerializing is the most menacing thing I've ever seen in this game.

  • @ClassicBentobox
    @ClassicBentobox Рік тому +100

    What an amazing video. This community sure blows me away sometimes. Very lucky to have creators like you.

    • @colewarnock8694
      @colewarnock8694 Рік тому +1

      you prolly already know him but asum saus is very similar and i think this guy definitely takes inspiration from him

  • @ashequestionmark
    @ashequestionmark Рік тому +255

    Every single day I miss SluG :(

    • @oatmeal2goskits492
      @oatmeal2goskits492 Рік тому +1

      me too buddy

    • @Kitth3n
      @Kitth3n Рік тому +12

      What happened to Slug?

    • @ashequestionmark
      @ashequestionmark Рік тому +55

      @@Kitth3n retired/is taking a break last I heard

    • @kardar233
      @kardar233 Рік тому +2

      I hope MOF is on the come up after that huge 3-0 on jmook

    • @TheRealBlazingDiamond
      @TheRealBlazingDiamond Рік тому +43

      ​@@ashequestionmarkOh, is that all? Good for him then, he's touching grass :)

  • @halofactorymoon
    @halofactorymoon Рік тому +30

    Its cool to see a video visualising the attack sensor ranges! I recently reverse engineered these tables in Smash 64 in order to improve Smash Remix’s AI for their new fighters. I wonder how the tables differ between games.

  • @donnyf88
    @donnyf88 Рік тому +49

    After years of melee.. I never knew the CPU of Nana..very well done and graphic wise.

  • @shuraizo2877
    @shuraizo2877 Рік тому +36

    Great video, editting and explanation, very clear and understandable!
    Also, I'm glad the music volume is on the same level as your narration, so I don't have to change it every segment of the video

  • @lucasmaciel3850
    @lucasmaciel3850 Рік тому +5

    I was listening to a vulfpeck playlist when I clicked on this video. It took me a while to realize that it was also the bgm for the video and not my music app playing over the video lmao

  • @k_k_aisa
    @k_k_aisa Рік тому +25

    Videos like this are part of what makes Melee special.

  • @theradman9478
    @theradman9478 Рік тому +25

    Great upload, stellar editing. Actually useful and fun information.

  • @cseager3239
    @cseager3239 Рік тому +24

    I remember being a kid and knowing that lvl 9 Gannondorf was like the final boss of melee. I never knew until today that professional melee players utilize that as well. I must have played so much as a kid I just intuitively knew that like that was just a far more challenging character to play against.

    • @EmptyZoo393
      @EmptyZoo393 Місяць тому +1

      It's kind of funny to me to see Gannondorf being picked as a companion given how low tier he's considered competitively. I guess he works better in a support role?

  • @alexlowe2054
    @alexlowe2054 10 місяців тому +2

    1:46 This might have been the best single joke I've seen all month. Excellent pacing and style.

  • @comfy39
    @comfy39 Рік тому +8

    Not a melee guy, but the great editing, concise explanations, and good tunes means I spent the last half hour watching every video you have uploaded. Keep it up :)

  • @P-MK
    @P-MK 7 місяців тому +2

    Found ya from the GDIME #7 shoutout! Had to browse through a lot of comments to reach your channel but MAN it was worth it, these visuals are so good!!
    p.s., The prints are really pretty and unique and there's even a hint of inspiration from the main man himself in there! Love to see it :D

  • @forestskilbred9461
    @forestskilbred9461 Рік тому +8

    The editing was so good here, awesome job and great video

  • @zyst6
    @zyst6 Рік тому +3

    This is the best explanation of IC mechanics I've ever seen. Great job! Really love your videos

  • @erikdoer
    @erikdoer Рік тому +12

    When the title hit and you cranked up Hero Town I already knew this was gonna be a banger.
    How/when do you decide on the song for each video? Your one on the Jmook recovery was so integrated I couldn't figure out which came first. This is easily the highest effort per-second Smash content currently being made.

  • @lucianpayne5158
    @lucianpayne5158 10 місяців тому +1

    love the song choice! I never thought I’d hear this in the background of a video, I thought it’d be too distracting, but you just happen to be an excellent visual storyteller. awesome!

  • @Dabrebro
    @Dabrebro Рік тому +2

    Good choice with the Vulfpeck! Love the visuals, editing and sound mixing, good work!

  • @Blundabus1337
    @Blundabus1337 Рік тому +5

    nana when popo is at 0%:
    mmm crayons
    nana when popo is at 140%:
    SO THOU HAS CHOSEN DEATH

  • @EtropolisGhost
    @EtropolisGhost 4 місяці тому +1

    i don't know why but 2:30 is just the funniest looking thing to me

  • @sagacious03
    @sagacious03 Рік тому +1

    Very interesting analysis video! Thanks for uploading!
    I didn't know about a lot of this level moves stuff, & would love to hear more!

  • @Duffy_SSBM
    @Duffy_SSBM Рік тому +3

    Absolutely loving your stuff. The art is sick but I wish there were higher res/more zoomed in images! I want to see what the Melee is hard poster says for example

    • @MeleeMoments
      @MeleeMoments  Рік тому +4

      good point, i’m realizing there’s not really a central place to find full-res images of the art. i’m going to look into putting those on the website, in the meantime if you go back a few months on my twitter media tab you can see them that way. the melee is hard one was posted on may 17th

    • @Duffy_SSBM
      @Duffy_SSBM Рік тому

      @@MeleeMoments awesome, thanks for the reply!

  • @davidvkimball
    @davidvkimball Рік тому +2

    One of the best Melee videos I've seen in a while. Great job.

  • @hadesthegod9181
    @hadesthegod9181 Рік тому +2

    Amazing video. I think we’re all in agreement: Why didn’t any of us know this sooner? I’ve been picking up esoteric Melee knowledge from UA-cam and forums for 10 years, and I never knew any of this.

  • @gbowers123
    @gbowers123 Рік тому +1

    Welcome back. My favourite Melee channel on UA-cam.

  • @blackquillx
    @blackquillx Рік тому +2

    The graphic design on these transitions are top-notch 💯

  • @azurecerulean1279
    @azurecerulean1279 Рік тому

    i discovered this in my recommended and im shocked with how great the editing is

  • @TheRealBrandonPerna
    @TheRealBrandonPerna Рік тому +2

    First video of yours I’ve seen and I’m excited to see more. Great stuff man, this was super interesting and well made

  • @salvatoreIII
    @salvatoreIII Рік тому

    Very educational. Never knew about different moves being unavailable to the cpus at lower levels.

  • @yousseftamer4943
    @yousseftamer4943 Рік тому +1

    Holy… I didn’t expect Nana of all characters to be so goddamn BROKEN

  • @BrandonNop-r7l
    @BrandonNop-r7l 8 місяців тому +2

    I can’t believe nana is rarely going to be able to grab, she legit going to stay around 1-5.

  • @emmbeesea
    @emmbeesea Рік тому +2

    Absolutely delightful and insightful.
    Can't wait for the next one!

  • @The23rdGamer
    @The23rdGamer Рік тому +2

    I don't watch much smash at all, but this was excellent presentation! I may have to check out more from your channel.

  • @HarmonicVector
    @HarmonicVector Рік тому +1

    "Nana will always recover towards Randall."
    All hail the AI Overlord, Randall!

  • @heckensteiner4713
    @heckensteiner4713 Рік тому

    Great video! It's insane that people are analyzing and playing this game this hard 22 years later.

  • @MrSlowpez10
    @MrSlowpez10 Рік тому +1

    So much good info presented so well. Idk how you do it, but it must take so much work

  • @ARavingLobster
    @ARavingLobster Рік тому +2

    Bro I swear every video you just get better and better, keep it up! :D

  • @erikrutledge4940
    @erikrutledge4940 Рік тому

    Melee and Vulfpeck, you sir have earned a subscription

  • @archonicmakes
    @archonicmakes Рік тому +1

    these videos explain things well and are impeccably edited. keep it up dude! :)

  • @basicdamine
    @basicdamine Рік тому +1

    Nana: "Imma about to ends this whole man's career"

  • @CheeTheOG
    @CheeTheOG Рік тому +14

    Very informative on how Nana's AI works didn't know that she increased her level by the amount of percentage Popo has
    I also miss Slug :(

  • @whydoyougottahavthis
    @whydoyougottahavthis Рік тому

    The slight UP music you played with the Luigi joke was fucking perfect 😂😂😂

  • @Wolfboy607
    @Wolfboy607 4 місяці тому

    holy shit, when me and the boys were kids, we would 1v3 the level 9, HANDICAP 9 coms. It was insane. We made it a game, we started at mario, beat him on every level like that, then moved on. Some smash moves have retained the names we gave them in fear as children. Gannon was one of the first true monsters we ran into. He would nail you with the "chicken wing" from out of nowhere and send you packing at like 40%.
    Holy fuck i miss melee handicap just being a giga-roids buff. In brawl and later, instead of it being a buff, now the handicap applies to yourself, and all it does is increase your starting percentage.

  • @therealwhite
    @therealwhite 9 місяців тому

    Dude starts out with Hero Town in the background you know I'm gonna give a like

  • @PrismsDesign
    @PrismsDesign Рік тому +1

    Wow, this was such an incredible video. I learned so much here. Amazing stuff man, criminally underrated

  • @rengarrengar9417
    @rengarrengar9417 Рік тому

    I've never seen such a video for melee, it's really amazing ! Gj dude !

  • @Plantains-wo1fb
    @Plantains-wo1fb 2 місяці тому

    Omg thats hero town in the intro. I adore your tastes.

  • @darlingj.canela
    @darlingj.canela Рік тому

    Slug, Popo and Nana it's the name of the album. Great video.

  • @Claptain_Planet
    @Claptain_Planet Рік тому +1

    This would be a cool mode in slippi. 2v2 match making you pick your player and teammate

  • @RamadaArtist
    @RamadaArtist Рік тому

    The rapid short range attacking and frame-perfect inputs that lvl 9 AIs are capable of means that they tend to be much harder to fight if you use the strategies you would against a top level player, instead of simply exploiting how dumb they are about navigating the space. Peach in particular can be absolutely brutal and pull off 50% combos with alarming speed if you try and rush into her face and get really aggressive.
    (Which was very useful for trying to figure out strategies with Roy that actually help his approach. For one, dashing into a side-B is infinitely safer than his standard dash attack, because the dash attack has a very short window for it's hitbox, and Roy's own hurtbox extends past the attack distance, meaning if you try to use it for approach he'll usually whiff AND run into an attack. Dashing side-b immediately halts his momentum and is a good opener for his combos; dashing side-b to grab to back throw to side smash is highly effective against the space animals. The terrible range and low knockback on his dash attack actually makes it much better as a mid-combo move than an approach.)

  • @steviebea
    @steviebea Рік тому

    this is insanely well produced and interesting! well done!

  • @notwhoyouare1543
    @notwhoyouare1543 Рік тому +3

    you always deliver with some sick shit brodi, big ups.

  • @nya69
    @nya69 Рік тому +2

    its so insane how much they gutted nanas ai in ult, just get to popo by any means necessary usually straight into the opponent with no attack or airdodging to ledge as u try to upb to save her..

    • @KopperNeoman
      @KopperNeoman 10 місяців тому

      Probably because Ultimate's AI is smart enough that slipping Nana out of follow state would actually HELP the IC player rather than screwing him over.

  • @ciarzyx
    @ciarzyx Рік тому

    Appreciate the Vulfpeck!

  • @just-linx8271
    @just-linx8271 Рік тому

    This is well produced! Nice work.

  • @morosepapaya
    @morosepapaya Рік тому

    Sweet visuals and great explanations. Here's a sub, you deserve many more

  • @andrew3692
    @andrew3692 Рік тому

    oh man im not sure if i ever saw the full sequence play though idk what I saw even though i learned so much 😢

  • @milesnorris732
    @milesnorris732 Рік тому

    The only hero in this town is you for your song choices ❤

  • @Sagi.Baten.Kaitos
    @Sagi.Baten.Kaitos Рік тому

    >Vulfpeck music
    I can already tell I'm gonna like this video

  • @The_Tsukuyomi
    @The_Tsukuyomi 6 місяців тому +1

    Had no idea the cloud was named Randall

  • @Swing_Bonnie
    @Swing_Bonnie Рік тому

    I love the new visual design

  • @Sugar3Glider
    @Sugar3Glider Рік тому

    Ooo, this was **exceptionally** informative

  • @WorstRivenNA
    @WorstRivenNA Рік тому

    Great editing and presentation!

  • @trollof229antthevariable9
    @trollof229antthevariable9 10 місяців тому

    Excellent production value

  • @jwalkrr2710
    @jwalkrr2710 Рік тому

    good ole Vulfpeck always bangs

  • @danede3635
    @danede3635 Рік тому +2

    I sometimes wonder if ai works like it's always scanning the situation constantly pressing moves. The level tells it whether to actually input the attack

  • @SirNarax
    @SirNarax 8 місяців тому

    1:47 I really liked that.

  • @benstoller2335
    @benstoller2335 Рік тому

    Great editing, great music, great knowledge

  • @CopperScott
    @CopperScott Рік тому

    Bro, this was awesome! I love learning new stuff about the game like this

  • @elise3852
    @elise3852 Рік тому

    HERO TOWN MOMENT LET’S GO

  • @ohithur
    @ohithur Рік тому

    Awesome stuff as usual. Just bought a couple stickers too. Keep up the good work!

  • @mariotaz
    @mariotaz Рік тому

    Amazing editing 😊

  • @neorunic
    @neorunic Рік тому +3

    man, I miss slug

  • @rockzyk1291
    @rockzyk1291 6 місяців тому

    SICK song choice. Amazing band.

  • @raffshot
    @raffshot Рік тому

    great video and i loved the vulfpeck as the music

  • @tacolordc
    @tacolordc Рік тому +2

    The fact that SluG disappeared from the community almost immediately after becoming a top dog is quite funny to me.

  • @Recarsonated
    @Recarsonated 9 місяців тому +1

    Also when trying to beat the AI in singleplayer like classic mode you would be suprised how often the AI can pull off certain bullshit things
    They will very often do meteor cancels, do the safest moves at close range, and if an item like a heart container or a pokeball spawns a mile away off screen, they will casually stroll on over there to pick it up as if you weren’t fighting them anymore 😂
    They can do all that but they still don’t even know how to DI and can easily be chaingrabbed which is super funny to me

  • @seanmakesthings
    @seanmakesthings 7 місяців тому

    Such a rad breakdown!

  • @BlobstoF
    @BlobstoF Рік тому

    That was. SPECTACULAR. I'm subbing right now

  • @thegoodgeneral
    @thegoodgeneral Рік тому

    AsumSaus level of work while not at all being derivative. Excellently done, I'm subscribing.

  • @EliTheGleason
    @EliTheGleason Рік тому +1

    Nana being essentially half a cpu until popo is on life support is the most melee bs ever god bless 😂

  • @Topaz-zk4zk
    @Topaz-zk4zk 9 місяців тому +2

    Does Nana's dynamic AI carry over to Brawl and Ultimate? Surely they are tweaks, so if so, what are they?

    • @quirkyqwertyto1055
      @quirkyqwertyto1055 2 місяці тому

      I would really love a video on the subject, just a comprehensive rundown of nana's evolution throughout the games

  • @vipermoon_
    @vipermoon_ 9 місяців тому

    Now I finally know how the CPUs work, thank you!

  • @MarMaxGaming
    @MarMaxGaming Рік тому

    This 5 min video must’ve taken at least 10 hours… great job!

  • @matthiasrieke1427
    @matthiasrieke1427 10 місяців тому

    great quality of videos !

  • @mammaspojke9813
    @mammaspojke9813 Рік тому

    Amazing editing

  • @MitaineMan
    @MitaineMan Рік тому

    ery nice putting vulfpeck into this

  • @TheDuckChris
    @TheDuckChris Рік тому

    Wow a new greatest youtube video of all time thats nuts

  • @lboy9889
    @lboy9889 Рік тому

    Smash x Vulf is the crossover I've always wanted