This video has received a very sudden influx of views over the past few days, and I am equal parts surprised and excited to see it! Thank you to all of you who have left positive comments, it has renewed by passion to create this kind of content and I have been working hard on the next video. If you enjoy my content, please consider sharing this video where others can find it. If you have the means to do so, also consider donating to my Patreon to help me make these videos even better! Every little bit counts, but please, do not donate unless you absolutely do not need the extra money. I am overjoyed that so many people spent time watching my video, and I can't wait to get the next one out to you all!
Fun fact: if you read the books you learn that lady boyle later kills brisby and takes control of his estate. Doesn't make it any less gross/creepy in game but it's an interesting eventuality.
I was under the impression that she did not kill him but rather used him as a sort of puppet, but I haven't read the books yet so the synopsis I read might have been wrong. I'm not a fan of that resolution really, either way. The whole situation is just gross and there's not really any resolution I can imagine that I'd feel comfortable with. I would have preferred that the canon had Corvo kill one of the Boyle sisters, albeit in a more compassionate way. I don't really like either option for 'my' vision of Corvo, but you'll hear more about my take on that in the next video. :)
@@EricCrosby While i can understand your argument, i also think that this is a huge double standard. Men are enslaved and tortured in the Dishonored world left and right (just see the non-lethal solution for the Pendeltons) and no one starts a twitter debate about that. Why is Lady Boyle's fate so much more offensive? Just because she is a woman?
@@MooddieMaddie I was lead to believe that in the story lady boyle would use her power to take in teenage boys who were in poverty, have her fun with them then kick them into the gutter. This might be a gross miss-recollection, correct me if I’m wrong.
Eric Crosby: Never produced a UA-cam video before. Also Eric Crosby: Produced one of the most well written, edited, and coherent video essays about a masterpiece of a game.
The Low Chaos solution to poisoning the distillery is simply to not do it. You can start that quest chain by just doing the first part where you take out the guys harassing Granny. The distillery I think is meant to get you to go "hang on Granny, that's a bit too far, maybe there's something more to this character than strange old lady."
@@mrkonski833 WAIT KEYS?! and you can throw a bottle somewhere to avoid them?! I got that no killing achievement by using blink! Now you tell me I could have just thrown a bottle, damn it! My stupid simpleton mind of blinking everywhere!
@@azrael4635 To be fair, once you unlock the ability to instantly anywhere you want with the press of a button, it's pretty hard to not just use that ALL THE TIME
I remember when I got to the Pendleton brothers, I spared everyone I could. I knocked them out, placed them out of sight, I was careful not to hurt of alert everyone. But when it was time to deal with the Pendletons, I literally opened the door and shot them both in the head with my pistol. I like to think that it was Corvo becoming enraged at the sight of the Pendletons because of what he saw in the void, so much as to not give them the courtesy of dying by his sword.
Interestingly, this kind of mission approach is canon to the books and in-game lore. In the books, he was stressed out at that point, because he may not have seen Emily ever again. So he killed the pendletons and anyone who got in his way.
My experience with the story for my first playthrough was really interesting. For me, corvo was a man who avoided violence, and tried his best to, but if caught, he will kill. I wasnt great at stealth at the time, and i got caught a lot. I ended the game with medium chaos, and when samuel said he was dissapointed with me, that i was too brutal, it broke my heart, because i tried hard to not be, but it wasnt good enough
Dude, this was phenomenal! Absolutely unheard of for this much quality in a FIRST video. The script was excellent and you make an amazing narrator, not to mention the incredibly well edited video. Arkane is my favorite Game Studio so I'm always looking for more content to watch on them and their games, and this really delivered. Can't wait for your next Arkane videos and beyond! Great work, Eric.
Thank you so much for your kind words, I was very nervous about this and the positive feedback has really encouraged me to keep going. If you enjoyed the video please share it with people who you think are interested!
As someone who loves the Thief games, killing people wasn't even on my mind, when I started playing Dishonored. I guess the people who are complaining that we should be rewarded for killing npcs just aren't into those types of games. There is something sooo satisfying about getting through a level unnoticed!
I'm suprised you didn't mention that you can run into High Overseer Campbell in the Flooded District if you marked him as a heretic. Also if you avoid Granny Rags throughout the game you avoid the final encounter between her and Slackjaw. This is a fantastic video and a great start to your channel.
Whaaaaaat that's how u officially get the clean hands trophy? I freaking used the stop time thing stole the key booked it up to her room opened that back Door n broke that board before they even had time to react lmaooooo left poor Slackjaw to get cooked lmao sad....shit but avoiding granny is hard she gives u like 3 runes in the second mission when u meet her
I'm not entirely sure why this video was recommended to me but I don't regret a single minute. The editing, the analysis and the insights have a level of professionalism and talent you'd usually expect on very mature channels that have taken years to find their style. Imagine the disappointment when I discovered there wasn't a backlog of dozens of videos to binge on! I sincerely hope you produce more.
One of my favourite thing about Emily’s drawings are how they change depending on low chaos runs and high chaos ones, there’s a large spread in corvos room that on low chaos is a drawing of corvos face that is quite pleasant but in high chaos is a terrifying drawing of corvos mask that even to his daughter the one person he’s got left he loves views him as this terrifying mask of death that almost everyone else sees him as
One thing i don't understand is peoples insistence that the addition of more opponents in a high chaos run is a punishment, when in reality they are rewarding you with more targets to use your powers on, they are in fact giving you more stuff to do, they are giving you more fun.
Just finished Dishonored, again. Even after many years, it still is one of my favourite games. The spiritual successor to 'Thief', and it's sequels and reboots, which I played over and over for years. Dishonored even has a homage Thief Easter egg in one of the missions. Currently playing through Dishonored 2, again. Can only hope there's a Dishonored 3 one day.
Apparently in the dishonoured book ‘The corroded man’ Lord Brisby who kidnapped lady Boyle ends up mysteriously disappearing and lady Boyle ends up inheriting his island estate and wealth. It’s not been proven if lady Boyle was involved in the disappearance of Lord Brisby. She is still alive by the time of dishonoured 2 and is living quite happily with Lord Brisbys family fortune. So I suppose she got her revenge on him and ended up living a happy and rich life in a luxurious house on an island
Canon wise it seems that he wasn’t malicious to her in anyway, and in fact was more of a suck up to her before she killed him. The set up is still pretty weird and no matter how you look at it, it’s still pretty bad. You either send a woman off the be a sex slave or give a psychopathic killer a huge inheritance after killing someone.
The way to play that made the most sense to me was Corvo would do his best to remain unnoticed, and would usually run away from fights if he could. But when he needed a guard out of the way he wouldn't hesitate to just kill them, or toss a grenade into a crowded room that he has to go through, and he probably would have murdered most of his targets. He grew up as a street kid and Emily is all he has left, he's not going to take chances.
I played Dishonored 2 *one time*, and I instantly fell in absolute love with it. (Now talking about the series as a whole) The art and style was gorgeous, the storytelling was unique and interesting, and it had everything I adored like steampunk, Victorian and tropical-ish themes, fantasy and magic, and multiple choices that lead to different outcomes. The entire series is so well made and it’s my absolute favorite. I also love the proportions of the characters, it’s unique yet still believeable, and doesn’t feel too fake or far-fetched. In short, Dishonored is my favorite game series of all time and it’s really so unique and beautiful.
9:06 The thing about the opening level, is that it's the diametrically opposite to the opening level of Deus Ex 1. In DX1, you were thrown into a level with multiple approaches, but little guidance. The Statue of Liberty was also the only genuinely open level, with successive levels becoming less free and more focused. I think Harvey Smith took the criticism about that to heart, and turned it around - with the more guided level at the start, and adding more variety for subsequent levels. The problem with DX1, was that the Statue of Liberty level set an almost impossibly high standard for the time; even for the game itself. With an opening which is less expansive, you can restrain yourself a bit in subsequent levels, without it feeling like the later parts of the game are more rushed.
When I first played dishonored I was playing high Chaos. It was a chill sneaky assassin game and murder was what video games were about.. It was only until I saw Emily and her reactions at the end of the game and I went "Oh shit... did I do that?". At the beginning of the game she's all sweet and nice. That ending shocked me.
50:05 You forgot to mention that everyone in the building dies through poisonous gas when you kill Mr. Hat. That makes delivering him from his suffering... let's say morally dark gray.
Great Video though I had a few notes: -I feel your critique of Granny Rags second side quest as not allowing for a non lethal option a bit unfounded. Its an optional quest for a reason, you don’t need to do it. Additionally I think they really reinforced both the themes and narratives of the game with that option as by choosing not to complete the quest they are both missing out on a checkmark and a rune. Just like giving up on quick mindless fun to go non lethal, you have to give up on a power boost and completion. Thats something only a game could make you consider and why they should not have given a low chaos option of completion -While I understand the disgust at the non-lethal solution for Lady Boyle, thats kind of the point. Not only does the game make you think about your actions in terms of chaos and killing vs “sparing” it now also makes you question your choice to remain non lethal. Many of the non-lethal solutions are worse than simply killing the target. Hiram ends up a weeper, the Pendleton’s are forced into slavery, and Boyle is made captive to a stalker. These are not kind solutions. It makes one consider even more between a simple kill=bad no kill=good mentality. Additionally I think it works well with the idea that you can still kill every target while getting low chaos. Or you could consider it corvo taking out his wrath in a much more careful and cruel manner. Either way I think its a great choice despite the disgust. Over all though great video I really enjoyed it.
I can never get enough Arkane video essays, there's just so much going in their games to think about. You hit the nail on the head for so many of the reasons I adore this game and I thank you for highlighting how unique its nonlethal systems are. Looking forward to hearing your analysis on Prey/Mooncrash as I feel that game and dlc never got the attention they deserved.
I adore Prey, though I feel very mixed on Mooncrash so far. I don't know that I like the rogue-like shift and it makes me a bit wary about Deathloop, though I do trust in Arkane. I need to play it a lot more to fully form my thoughts. Thanks for watching! :)
Personally I think the non-lethal option for Lady Boyle helps to emphasize the grim dark setting of Dishonored. Even the good guys stoop to some pretty scummy lows.
I still can't believe this was your first video, you have the writing skills and the voice of someone very experienced in deep games reviews. I just finished watching this video and can't wait for a moment in which I have another spare hour to see your analysis on Dishonored 2. Hope your channel gets more visibility and gets recommended to more people, 22k views and less than 2k subs is WAAAAY too little for this caliber of content.
I can't believe this is your first essay, it's amazing, I especially like how you talked about all the different aspects of the game including the interpretation a player might come up with at certain points in the story - most Dishonored essays talk about the story or mechanics. Rarely both. I'm glad YT randomly recommended this to me and I hope you will continue creating :)
I remember when I first played this I did a 0 kill run EXCEPT for 1 giy at the beginning level that I forgot about. Necessitating another non lethal run entirely. Lol
I actually feel the opposite. I have the least amount of fun choking out a couple people and then blinking through the entire level. I get more satisfaction from setting up insane stunts to kill guards in the coolest way possible without getting caught
Iconic doesn't necessarily mean "quality voice acting". As much as I love our bumbling guards, I can see how their repetitive dialogue could be disliked
I found this series of videos and was worried it would just be another dry summary of events and mechanics, but was more than pleasantly surprised to find a thoughtful opinion piece loaded with insight and valuable critiques. Your narration is clear and to the point, and your editing is simple but effective. You don't waste the viewer's time with obnoxious jokes or overly detailed explanations of things they likely already know. This is exactly the kind of video I appreciate, and also the style I go for in my own work as a result. Great stuff!
Emergent storytelling... Yyyup, that hit me hard. Was originally gunning for the Low chaos... but midway though felt like stretching my Prince of Persia blade skills, and the poisoning/betrayal point was a fine excuse. Probably avoided an intended difficulty spike giving in to the darkest hour trope and mercilessly cutting through Daud's goons. Poking around his hideout, hearing his doubts was a very poignant dark mirror in that attitude. "You went down that route... I won't. There still yet be hope for you too" Facing the man who killed Jessamine and letting him go was a powerful experience.
the whole thing about the heart is that all those issues are actually solvable in-game. the heart does beat faster the closer you get to charms and runes, and you can also turn off hud objectives in the menu so that it doesnt spoil the location of anything. the games got pretty customizable options for how old it is
Great video overall! I have a few things I'd like to comment on: Chaos system and the morality of nonlethal play: In my opinion, the issue with the Chaos system (which, to be fair, I generally like) isn't, as you say, that it punishes the player for murder; it's that it introduces a whole set of mechanics that are fun to use, but punishes you for exploring those mechanics via the chaos system. For a nonlethal player, the sword, mines, grenades, and pistol are all largely decorative. The pistol has the most upgrades of any equipment in the game, and it's not even close. It has 11 upgrades available for it. The next highest is the crossbow, with 7. There was obviously developer intent that the pistol be used -- why else would they put so much work into it, and thus encourage the player to do the same? As for the crossbow, its sleep darts are the only ranged nonlethal option in the game. The only two nonlethal eliminations in Dishonored are sleep darts and chokeholds. In a vacuum, that's fine, but there is zero capacity whatsoever to specialise the crossbow (or any other equipment) for nonlethal work. In fact, about 80% of the equipment and powers in the game are tailored towards lethal play. This is annoying mostly because there are solutions to this -- as an example I just thought up, the pistol could be converted to "flashblanks", which are rounds with no projectile that produce a bright flash, briefly stunning and/or disorienting opponents, allowing a nonlethal player to break contact more efficiently at the cost of making a loud noise that attracts more guards. Suddenly, the pistol has a use for low-chaos characters, instead of being power wheel clutter. Dishonored 2 rectifies the lethal tool problem, in large degree through the addition of the [spoilers ahead] Clockwork Soldiers. Perhaps your stance is that having all these options and staying your hand is an example of ludonarrative harmony. If so, fair enough, and I can accept that viewpoint (and I regularly play low chaos myself). The fact remains that most of the player's abilities and tools are effectively locked out from a low chaos playthrough. It's also my opinion that sometimes, the nonlethal route should generate just as much chaos as the lethal route, or perhaps more. Exposing Burrows' treachery should create pandemonium in the streets, as an entire city realizes they've been brought to the brink of ruin by a man they believed was doing the right thing for them. If that's not chaos, I don't know what is. And I wholeheartedly disagree that the Boyle Mansion's nonlethal resolution is bad. That it's disgusting and sick is a powerful thematic move, and makes the lethal vs. nonlethal choice more complex than "nonlethal better than lethal". It lends credence to the Loyalists' idea toward the end that they have done terrible things in the name of the conspiracy, and with this mission's resolution, Corvo is no different. Dunwall is not a place where you can get through it all with your hands squeaky clean. You said that empathy is a theme in Arkane games. Well, completely agreed. In this case, the game is posing a very, very difficult question to the character, a question with no right answer: which choice is the more empathetic one? Is it disturbing? Yes, absolutely. Should it be? Yes, that's the point of the resolution. As for Piero, he is explicitly a creep. And just because you the player CAN enter the room and make a pass at Callista doesn't mean you need to. Again, the game leaves the choice to you. It strikes me as odd that you'd criticise this in the game, when earlier you praised the freedom of choice afforded to the player. Doubly so when you later praise ending Mr. Hatter as "the rare time killing the target is more empathetic". Is it just that sexual abuse makes you more uncomfortable than ending a life? If so, that's okay, but it deserves to be acknowledged. Granny Rags' elixir still mission: The low chaos resolution to that quest IS not completing it. In fact, if I recall the Corroded Man novel rightly, that's the canon choice. The immediate reuse of Clavering Blvd: The reason that you go right back is so that you can see how even so quickly, the world has changed. There is more security day by day. It adds a sense of time pressure to the narrative -- if the Loyalists are too slow, they might not be able to accomplish their mission. If you went high chaos against Campbell, you also get immediately exposed to the rapid degeneration of the city (Weepers appear where the last mission there were none) and this gives you time to turn the ship around on a high chaos playthrough, as you discussed in the Chaos Theory section of the video.
I disagree with you on the non-lethal aspect of some missions, specifically the Lady Boyle mission. All of the non-lethal methods are horrific, the targets get to live but the rest their lives are filled with torture and misery. This sort of choice between death and a life lived in their own personal hell gives a flavour to your choices that far exceeds a standard good/bad choice. Having these awful choices that make you feel icky is part if the genius of the world. Also, you should feel pride in this video. It isn't good for a first video, it's just a damn good video, kudos.
Bitterness of this choice is that we MUST to decide people's fate: should they die as martyrs and get away easily with their crimes or should we give them long and painful punishment for their deeds. If you're merciful and grant quick deaths, there's more accusations for you (you're becomung an assassin for real this time and by your own decision not by enemy's word) and no lesson learned. And if you eliminate your targets "non-lethaly" you should consider that you basically doomed these people, albeit bad, for prolonged misery and suffering. And this is pretty much the reflection of a real world. Each and every choice is f*cked at the core. And gosh, I LOVE Dishonored for that.
@@Z3ROMyth There's no need in that. Before the first Dishonored, I mean. After that.... well, there's a lot of thing to read and learn outside the game itself.
I love the care and detail put into this. I would point out that killing the Geezer in the Brigmore Witches DLC does still kind of end up with you poisoning all the hatters in the place, so unless you KO all of them and take them outside (which totally gives me an idea for my next playthrough) it's still gonna end up with more collateral damage. ...Which actually just feeds into your point about how any act of violence, even a justified one can end up harming unintended people okay never mind, you're awesome.
quality vid mate, a quick note on the "chaos theory"; Early on, in corvo’s jail cell, written on the wall (we presume by him): “a little fire that warms is better than a big fire that burns” the genius of these lines cant be understated; it not only foreshadows the chaos system to the player, but simultaneously in narrative context shows during his time stewing in prison (no doubt rife with emotional toil), over the course of half a year Corvo is pondering action and consequence. He is a prescient thinker and fighter; the traits bodyguards are hand-picked for. But more than that, he is contemplating to what end he will exact his revenge. He has every reason to unleash his wrath, but to what extent? It evokes Nietzsche's "whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster" The player and Corvo become one in that moment alone. all this from a few lines, scribbled on a wall one might note even look at, at the opening of the adventure, locked behind bars, captivated... just masterful.
The spying on Callista was unnecessary. But I personally would leave the Lady Boyle non-lethal path. In the missions before, doing non-lethal runs might not have been pleasant for the targest (outcast, shunned and harmed by society and mutilated and consequent forced labor), but up until that point we can still justify this to ourselves as "karma". Now we get the creep involved and beging to wonder: Is not killing the targets and letting them suffer by the hands of others really that much better? If we want revenge/get rid of them, is it maybe not better swift, short und without long suffering? And the creepiness of her non-lethal takedown is the first and only that really forces us to reflect on that properly.
you have a point, but the game presents the non lethal option for boyle as the “better” option because it’s low chaos. I think it’s a little disappointing that arkane presents morality in a binary low or high chaos system, rather than letting the actions speak for themselves and having their own consequences.
I thought the spying on Callista scene was kinda funny, just for how much of a creepy sleeze bag it makes Corvo seem. Like running over pedestrians in GTA, it's funny to just be a chaotic lunatic sometimes. Like poisoning both glasses when killing Campell, it's another option in the game to be evil for no reason. I'm not going to say it's necessary or that important, but I do think it adds something to the game in just giving another opportunity to give Corco some characterization. And I truly don't get people's reservation with lady Boyle. This is a game series where you brand someone's face with a hot iron, cut out someone's tongues and throw them into slavery in a mine, and literally lobotomize someone. How is Lady Boyle's fate any worse than that? Just because it has an implied sexual element? Realistically she suffers way less than any of the other targets. If I had to be subjected to any of the non lethal punishments, I would choose Lady Boyle's over any of the other ones.
My confrontation with daud went the other way around, I planned on only killing him from the start of the mission and almost did it flawlessly, until I got to daud, to kill him and take the key without alerting anyone I used bend time and landed right next to him, to which he reacted, during bend time. Which makes sense, he also has that ability, but I didn't play the dlc before that and it kind of spooked me but then when I realized that we were dueling in stopped time, and that when it ended he signaled all assassins to go away that this was gonna be a very fun boss, and it was, the lightning fast sword clashes broken apart by blinks and long range combat, jumping in and out of bent time and desperately trying to get on each other's blind spots in a surprisingly good arena for being so cramped made that 30 second boss one of the most memorable I'll ever fight, and it seems like no one else has fought him like that
I especially liked the point you touched on when you described a non lethal playthrough's few kills to be more impactful due to their rarity. By sheer coincidence I recently played through Dishonored 1, its subsequent DLC's and then the sequel, throughly enjoying them all for the first time in years. I was playing a primarily non lethal Corvo, but I'd defend myself lethally if cornered. I was sneaking through Galvani's mansion after just choking out a guard when a second, equally surprised guard opened a door into the very same room I was in. He swung his sword at me and instinctively I counter attacked and stabbed him in the neck, killing him. From the guard's perspective I was a masked stranger crouching by his colleague's body so naturally he'd attack. But the quickness of the way I despatched him impacted me as the player and I imagine Corvo would feel the same. I think I may have killed a total of 9 enemies on that playthrough but the poor guard just doing his job was the one that affected me the most.
Having just replayed the dlcs again and fresh off that high seeing this video, so recent on such a now old game is just wonderful and I just cannot wait to see what more you have to come. Keep up the great work!
The editing, the writing ,the narration , it is really good and i enjoyed your essay and i hope to see more soon from some of my favorite games all time, very nice job !
*Thing about Dishonored is that the "Nonviolent" ways of disposing of the main villains is actually LESS humane than killing them, as you are sentencing them to fates that are literally WORSE than death. How exactly are you any better than them?*
y know they are responsible for the plague that killed thousands of thousands people, death of the empress, kidnapping the empress daughter to use her or perhaps kill if she is not needed, and you were tortured and about to be sentenced to death. you wont pat them on head for this obviously
This is probably the most influential video on a video game I’ve seen. The moral and anti-cap values in this game just make it so much better, now that I realize them considering I was much younger when I visited this game. Well done
Great video essay, Eric. I love the in-depth worldbuilding in dishonored and how the game deviates from the traditional red/blue choice options. It really makes the decisions you choose feel more impactful and unique. I also thought your script was really well written.
Yea, all non-lethal is: well that's just it. It's simply not killing. Every single option puts the target in a state of atonement (for lack of a better word) Campbell's mark leads him to a state of despair and a need for help. Help he never receives, which leads to him becoming a weeper. Just like how he, as high overseer, did nothing to help the people of Dunwall as they died from plague. The pendletons had their tongues cut out and heads shaved, then were forced to work in their own mines. The same ones they forced others to work for their life. Lady Boyle was a rich woman who lived a life of leisure and splendor, while the city around her starved and crumbled. She was then kidnapped and brought to the world she avoided. (Even though rape is terrible and no one should ever suffer, I'd say it's better than dying: we never do learn if it was rape either. It's just assumed.) She even gets the estate when it's all said and done in The Corroded Man. The Lord Regent (Hiram Burrows) had his crimes against the city and his confession for targeting the Empress publicized, causing him to be imprisoned in the very prison he tried to force Corvo's fake confession. (The Ironic Karma) Havelock is sent to prison for his crimes and forced to live with all the regrets and mistakes in his life. All these options aren't 'good'. They are simply ways of atonement instead of just outright killing them and causing the city to be a further disarray. (Sorry for the year late post if you even see this!) TL;DR All are forms of atonement, not 'good'
i was somehow under the impression you had hundreds of thousands of subs & your video production quality reflects that! i'll definitely be sticking around for more, keep up the amazing work! (it's been very very good to paint to)
I'd say one more criticism of Lady Boyle's last party is that while the non lethal option is a core aspect of the game as a whole, it's thrusted upon you a lot more aggressively here. I recall my very first playthrough way back when, this mission was somewhat ruined, as the man says "I need to speak with you, concerning why you're here." within just a minute or two of me getting my bearings of the layout of the party, then tells me who the real Boyle is, spoiling the solution almost instantly, with no big indication before hand that he was going to do so. Ruining the entire crux of the mission's idea, investigating to figure out which Boyle is which through stealth. Having this as the nonlethal method can be discussed all day, but at least make it so I have to seek it out, rather than it walking up to me and ruining the mystique of the mission
Ok, while i agree with most points here, in the bright more witches, the hatters are making items for plague relief, and by putting the old man out of his misery, everyone but you within the hideout dies, which is the higher chaos and less morally good move
I was blessed by the yt algorithm with this gem. I've seen a decent amount of video essays on dishonored and this is on the top of the list. The 2 things I wish you had mentioned/made more emphasis are 1) worldbuilding, Dunwall is a really cool city, that feels lived in and real, and you can see it change and evolve as the game goes on and it also adapts to your chaos level 2) the music, I find the dishonored music to be one of the most fitting and best music in any game I've played. It really adds to the experience and goes really well with what the game makes you feel, to the point where listening without playing gives me some sort of nostalgic feeling for the first few playthroughs I did. Amazing video my man, now I'm off to watching the Dishonored 2 one
I'm especially bothered how little views this has, but I am also grateful that I stumbled upon this video. Extremely well done and great to watch. I played this game start to finish a few times already, but I still had stuff to think about from this video. Keep making video essays, I enjoy these a lot
dude, this is your FIRST VIDEO? HOW??? this was absolutely amazing and did not feel as long as it actually was. you deserve more subs, and you’ve certainly earned mine.
"feel free to listen to them in the background" absolute kingly hero shit right here, and SPECIFICALLY resulting in me subscribing and gently caressing and speaking sweet nothings into that bell button.
I like how the non lethal route for Daud still fits into the theme of ironic punishments. He regrets killing the empress and sees his death at the hands of Corvo to be a fitting punishment, but instead you can just deny him and walk away. This is probably the only time ive ever seen a good use of that common revenge trope where the protagonist spares the villain for seemingly no reason.
That's a wonderful study of DH1, thank you for the video! I loved all your points, negative and positive both. Dishonored is so layered, every time you play it or think about it, it reveals something new to you. Dishonored games have a huge place in my heart and I love that as time goes on, they age wonderfully and more people can play it and experience this amazing story.
The fact that he sees the high chaos and low chaos is great a system because it is as I have played high chaos and seen some of its outcomes as example Emily’s drawings will reflect your chaos high chaos players will have Emily see corvo as not a monster but as the masked person he has become while low chaos players will have her see them as a her dad corvo reflected most by her drawing of corvo at the end
This is really well-done. I like your talk on the themes of empathy, though I was hoping you'd talk about the whales. When I played this for the first time I tried doing nonlethal as much as possible. It felt like a lot of specific quests that allowed you to go nonlethal instead of the more freeform ability to use weapons to kill. However, for what it is it's very solid.
I did intend to talk about the treatment of whales in Dunwall more, but I felt worried about putting too much of my own ethics into the video. Perhaps in the next I will in more detail. I'm a vegan as I mentioned briefly, and so my views come out pretty strongly whenever I discuss animal violence. As I'm sure you can understand, many people on UA-cam wouldn't take kindly to a vegan ideology being pushed in a video otherwise about games. With that said, I think Dishonored does a really good job showing how capitalism and industry exploit animals in the same ways they do humans. We see the whales being used as the literal means of powering industry. The fact of their oil being harvested while they are still alive only adds to the cruelty of it all. The Empire is powered almost entirely by the exploitation of these creatures, and it is truly tragic to see. The people the Isles don't really have it much better, sadly. I think its a pretty potent way to illustrate how many people in our real everyday world uncritically use products that exploit animals or even kill them. There seems to really only be one person advocating for the whales in Dishonored (a small note found in the main game and DLC that illustrates their suffering.) I hope, if there is ever a return to the Dishonored series, that we see this running theme of exploitation actually come to a head. I'll be discussing it in depth in my Dishonored 2 video, but I don't think the games ever adequately resolve the conflict they establish between the upper and lower classes. Perhaps Dishonored 3 will have a more revolutionary theme to it, could be quite interesting to see. I hope you enjoy my rambling here, thanks for watching!
@@EricCrosby That rambling is exactly what I was looking for. The usage of whalebone in runes and charms always gave me an impression that the whales were related to the Outsider. Even outside of any lore speculation the plague always felt thematically karmic. Either way, that treatment of whales really fits with how self-interested the upper class are in the game.
@@ieatatsonic Within the lore I believe the whales exist simultaneously in the real world and in the void. That's why their 'oil' has magical properties. As far as I'm aware the whales were actually around as void entities before the Outsider, and that in some ways, they are what give him his power. I could be misinterpreting what I've read though.
Loved this look at one of my favourite games and the interesting commentary on violence in video games that I don't see explored enough. Looking forward to the next video!
Another great video about my fav game. Thank you for those kind words. It really worms my heart to see that people are still playing and praising this game.
My prefered playstyle is more knocking out every guard in a building for half an hour an going exploring afterwards rather than just sneeking around normally
Dishonored remains one of my favorite games of all time; I replay it about once a year. My first playthru had a high chaos ending, and I was dissatisfied. I immediately replayed it with a stealth approach, and the resulting low chaos ending was one of the most satisfying and emotional game endings I've ever experienced. It still moves me each time I play to that ending and then the closing song comes on over the credits.
this is the first dishonored video i ever watched. since then, i’ve had 8 playthroughs, all of which i have loved. i played totally non lethally, brutally, going out of my way to kill everyone i saw, and a pure stealth playthrough. the amount of replayability in this game is insane for a game like this. arkane made a masterpiece.
Thoroughly enjoyed your video essay, Eric. I played Dishonored for the first time recently. I inadvertently went down a high chaos/murdery route on my first run and whilst looking for some tips on youtube found a number of stealth/no kills walkthroughs and realised this was The Way. I tried to turn the tide of chaos, but it was too late. My second playthrough, started almost immediately after completing the first, was a considered, slower, stealthy non-violent affair, and as much as I enjoyed the high chaos muderous mosh, the low chaos stealth ballet was so much more satisfying. As an aside, I found the High Chaos "good" ending to be worse than the high chaos "bad" ending - given what I/Corvo had done, it felt like a final kick in teeth to see what became of Emily if I saved her. Anyway, it's a wonderful, brilliant, engrossing game, and at no point in either of my playthroughs did I think "this game is 10 years old".
Amazing video! I especially loved when you spoke of the whale in the DLCs, and touched on how this is a society built on oppression (of the working class, yes, but also on the mass slaughtering of the whales). I've always liked that Daud remains silent if he kills the whale out of mercy; why is he doing it? Does he feel empathy for this creature even though he spent his life dehumanizing his targets? Is it just because Billie seemed sad to see the whale suffer? We don't know. I love how the first game relies so much on the player's interpretation of things (something that you also talked about when you mentioned how Corvo being Emily's father is never truly confirmed within the game). Also, I don't remember who says it in the game, but they seem to suggest something absolutely terrible is going to happen once the whales are all gone. It's always struck me as quite poignant that all of this world is possibly going to its doom, and nobody is aware of it, except the Outsider.
Found this on Reddit, wonderful video! You’ve earned my subscription. Edit: And funny enough, your favorite mission (Lady Boyle’s) is my least favorite, while your least favorite mission (the Flooded District) is the best part in my opinion. It perfectly shows the decay and terror that you hear of about the plague, but never truly see at first hand.
Just finished dishonored 1 for the first time. I love how even the non lethal options are super satisfying. It still feels like justice is done and that you aren’t cheated for not killing
I'm gonna go ahead and copy/paste my reply from the Reddit thread I found your video from: As someone who has put over 1k hours into the original Dishonored, I appreciate everything said in this video. The original is still my favorite single-player game of all time. The second game was a bit disappointing, but was still good. All in all, this video was very worth the watch and I'm looking forward to the parts to come!
I really appreciate the feedback, thanks so much. I agree that Dishonored 2 was a bit disappointing, and my next video will largely be a discussion of how it succeeds and fails to live up to the original. Personally I think they are both about even in terms of quality. I hope you'll stay tuned to hear my thoughts on it!
With the mission where Sokolov is to be kidnapped I actually decided I wanted to try a low chaos route at that point and I completely forgot that I wasn’t here to kill so I thought I was on route to a different ending when I kidnapped him not realizing that’s what I was supposed to do
this video summed up Dishonored perfectly, I agree it is almost perfect and whatever small gripes there are pale in comparison to the overall quality. A modern masterpiece
The amount of time, dedication, and love that's been put into this video is obvious from the first minute! Excited to see what comes next on your channel!!
This video has received a very sudden influx of views over the past few days, and I am equal parts surprised and excited to see it!
Thank you to all of you who have left positive comments, it has renewed by passion to create this kind of content and I have been working hard on the next video. If you enjoy my content, please consider sharing this video where others can find it.
If you have the means to do so, also consider donating to my Patreon to help me make these videos even better! Every little bit counts, but please, do not donate unless you absolutely do not need the extra money.
I am overjoyed that so many people spent time watching my video, and I can't wait to get the next one out to you all!
I'm just surprised to see that this is the only video you have. With quality like this, you'd expect someone might have older videos.
@@Joshulties the next video should be out in the next few weeks!
Have you posted this on reddit yet?
@@dellonerf3140 I did but it was removed for self promotion; if you or anyone else would like to do so I would greatly appreciate it!
Keep going like this don't change
Fun fact: if you read the books you learn that lady boyle later kills brisby and takes control of his estate. Doesn't make it any less gross/creepy in game but it's an interesting eventuality.
I was under the impression that she did not kill him but rather used him as a sort of puppet, but I haven't read the books yet so the synopsis I read might have been wrong. I'm not a fan of that resolution really, either way. The whole situation is just gross and there's not really any resolution I can imagine that I'd feel comfortable with. I would have preferred that the canon had Corvo kill one of the Boyle sisters, albeit in a more compassionate way. I don't really like either option for 'my' vision of Corvo, but you'll hear more about my take on that in the next video. :)
@@EricCrosby While i can understand your argument, i also think that this is a huge double standard. Men are enslaved and tortured in the Dishonored world left and right (just see the non-lethal solution for the Pendeltons) and no one starts a twitter debate about that. Why is Lady Boyle's fate so much more offensive? Just because she is a woman?
@@LegioXXI Some might consider the thought of being a sex slave for your stalker worse than being a different kind of slave. Matter of opinion I think
@@MooddieMaddie I was lead to believe that in the story lady boyle would use her power to take in teenage boys who were in poverty, have her fun with them then kick them into the gutter.
This might be a gross miss-recollection, correct me if I’m wrong.
@@EricCrosby ^
Eric Crosby: Never produced a UA-cam video before.
Also Eric Crosby: Produced one of the most well written, edited, and coherent video essays about a masterpiece of a game.
Its an hour long. Disagree
@@RylzMunkister you think it’s too long? I very much disagree
@@RylzMunkister have you played the game?
@@RylzMunkister what the fuck kind of criticism is that?
@@RylzMunkister I watched a trial that lasted two weeks, with three days of deliberation.
…One hour. That’s nothing
I have been playing Dishonored for ten years. Never once did it occur to me that I can stick spring razors to crossbow bolts.
The Low Chaos solution to poisoning the distillery is simply to not do it. You can start that quest chain by just doing the first part where you take out the guys harassing Granny. The distillery I think is meant to get you to go "hang on Granny, that's a bit too far, maybe there's something more to this character than strange old lady."
Man I only do it for the rune
I always threw a bottle to distract the guys because I always did a pacifist run. Just steal the keys and then take the rune.
@@azrael4635 It’s the trade off between personal gain and spreading the plague
@@mrkonski833 WAIT KEYS?! and you can throw a bottle somewhere to avoid them?! I got that no killing achievement by using blink! Now you tell me I could have just thrown a bottle, damn it! My stupid simpleton mind of blinking everywhere!
@@azrael4635 To be fair, once you unlock the ability to instantly anywhere you want with the press of a button, it's pretty hard to not just use that ALL THE TIME
I remember when I got to the Pendleton brothers, I spared everyone I could. I knocked them out, placed them out of sight, I was careful not to hurt of alert everyone. But when it was time to deal with the Pendletons, I literally opened the door and shot them both in the head with my pistol.
I like to think that it was Corvo becoming enraged at the sight of the Pendletons because of what he saw in the void, so much as to not give them the courtesy of dying by his sword.
Interestingly, this kind of mission approach is canon to the books and in-game lore. In the books, he was stressed out at that point, because he may not have seen Emily ever again. So he killed the pendletons and anyone who got in his way.
My experience with the story for my first playthrough was really interesting. For me, corvo was a man who avoided violence, and tried his best to, but if caught, he will kill. I wasnt great at stealth at the time, and i got caught a lot. I ended the game with medium chaos, and when samuel said he was dissapointed with me, that i was too brutal, it broke my heart, because i tried hard to not be, but it wasnt good enough
Dude, this was phenomenal! Absolutely unheard of for this much quality in a FIRST video.
The script was excellent and you make an amazing narrator, not to mention the incredibly well edited video.
Arkane is my favorite Game Studio so I'm always looking for more content to watch on them and their games, and this really delivered.
Can't wait for your next Arkane videos and beyond!
Great work, Eric.
Thank you so much for your kind words, I was very nervous about this and the positive feedback has really encouraged me to keep going. If you enjoyed the video please share it with people who you think are interested!
11:20 Listening to the soundtracks makes my heart ache because of how much I miss Dishonored. Such a wonderful and mysterious world to immerse in.
As someone who loves the Thief games, killing people wasn't even on my mind, when I started playing Dishonored. I guess the people who are complaining that we should be rewarded for killing npcs just aren't into those types of games. There is something sooo satisfying about getting through a level unnoticed!
Late response, but I hope that you did play it on high chaos as well. It's really great thing to have both playthroughs.
I'm suprised you didn't mention that you can run into High Overseer Campbell in the Flooded District if you marked him as a heretic. Also if you avoid Granny Rags throughout the game you avoid the final encounter between her and Slackjaw. This is a fantastic video and a great start to your channel.
Wait what? Where can you find Campbell
Whaaaaaat that's how u officially get the clean hands trophy? I freaking used the stop time thing stole the key booked it up to her room opened that back Door n broke that board before they even had time to react lmaooooo left poor Slackjaw to get cooked lmao sad....shit but avoiding granny is hard she gives u like 3 runes in the second mission when u meet her
@@takima504 do clean hands and a mostly flesh and steel run. That way you don’t need any runes
@@dev-4525 You find Campbell in the Flooded District. He's at the bottom of an oil refinery, right next to your lost gear.
If that means avoiding the Runes, statistically collect by reward.
I'm not entirely sure why this video was recommended to me but I don't regret a single minute. The editing, the analysis and the insights have a level of professionalism and talent you'd usually expect on very mature channels that have taken years to find their style. Imagine the disappointment when I discovered there wasn't a backlog of dozens of videos to binge on! I sincerely hope you produce more.
One of my favourite thing about Emily’s drawings are how they change depending on low chaos runs and high chaos ones, there’s a large spread in corvos room that on low chaos is a drawing of corvos face that is quite pleasant but in high chaos is a terrifying drawing of corvos mask that even to his daughter the one person he’s got left he loves views him as this terrifying mask of death that almost everyone else sees him as
One thing i don't understand is peoples insistence that the addition of more opponents in a high chaos run is a punishment, when in reality they are rewarding you with more targets to use your powers on, they are in fact giving you more stuff to do, they are giving you more fun.
Non Lethal Lady Boyle is one of my most memorable moments from gaming I say keep it
High chaos also drastically changes the drawings Emily does, so that they are way more eerie and brutal.
Just finished Dishonored, again. Even after many years, it still is one of my favourite games.
The spiritual successor to 'Thief', and it's sequels and reboots, which I played over and over for years. Dishonored even has a homage Thief Easter egg in one of the missions.
Currently playing through Dishonored 2, again.
Can only hope there's a Dishonored 3 one day.
Apparently in the dishonoured book ‘The corroded man’ Lord Brisby who kidnapped lady Boyle ends up mysteriously disappearing and lady Boyle ends up inheriting his island estate and wealth. It’s not been proven if lady Boyle was involved in the disappearance of Lord Brisby. She is still alive by the time of dishonoured 2 and is living quite happily with Lord Brisbys family fortune.
So I suppose she got her revenge on him and ended up living a happy and rich life in a luxurious house on an island
While this is good... You can't blame people for thinking she'd spend the rest of her life chained up in some basement or the dude's bed.
She was killed by the crowned killer as seen in the intro of dishonored 2
Canon wise it seems that he wasn’t malicious to her in anyway, and in fact was more of a suck up to her before she killed him. The set up is still pretty weird and no matter how you look at it, it’s still pretty bad. You either send a woman off the be a sex slave or give a psychopathic killer a huge inheritance after killing someone.
The way to play that made the most sense to me was Corvo would do his best to remain unnoticed, and would usually run away from fights if he could. But when he needed a guard out of the way he wouldn't hesitate to just kill them, or toss a grenade into a crowded room that he has to go through, and he probably would have murdered most of his targets. He grew up as a street kid and Emily is all he has left, he's not going to take chances.
I played Dishonored 2 *one time*, and I instantly fell in absolute love with it. (Now talking about the series as a whole) The art and style was gorgeous, the storytelling was unique and interesting, and it had everything I adored like steampunk, Victorian and tropical-ish themes, fantasy and magic, and multiple choices that lead to different outcomes. The entire series is so well made and it’s my absolute favorite. I also love the proportions of the characters, it’s unique yet still believeable, and doesn’t feel too fake or far-fetched. In short, Dishonored is my favorite game series of all time and it’s really so unique and beautiful.
9:06 The thing about the opening level, is that it's the diametrically opposite to the opening level of Deus Ex 1. In DX1, you were thrown into a level with multiple approaches, but little guidance. The Statue of Liberty was also the only genuinely open level, with successive levels becoming less free and more focused.
I think Harvey Smith took the criticism about that to heart, and turned it around - with the more guided level at the start, and adding more variety for subsequent levels.
The problem with DX1, was that the Statue of Liberty level set an almost impossibly high standard for the time; even for the game itself. With an opening which is less expansive, you can restrain yourself a bit in subsequent levels, without it feeling like the later parts of the game are more rushed.
When I first played dishonored I was playing high Chaos. It was a chill sneaky assassin game and murder was what video games were about.. It was only until I saw Emily and her reactions at the end of the game and I went "Oh shit... did I do that?". At the beginning of the game she's all sweet and nice. That ending shocked me.
50:05 You forgot to mention that everyone in the building dies through poisonous gas when you kill Mr. Hat.
That makes delivering him from his suffering... let's say morally dark gray.
Yeah. On one hand one old man’s suffering finally ends, but I can’t justify killing how so many people just for that.
Great Video though I had a few notes:
-I feel your critique of Granny Rags second side quest as not allowing for a non lethal option a bit unfounded. Its an optional quest for a reason, you don’t need to do it. Additionally I think they really reinforced both the themes and narratives of the game with that option as by choosing not to complete the quest they are both missing out on a checkmark and a rune. Just like giving up on quick mindless fun to go non lethal, you have to give up on a power boost and completion. Thats something only a game could make you consider and why they should not have given a low chaos option of completion
-While I understand the disgust at the non-lethal solution for Lady Boyle, thats kind of the point. Not only does the game make you think about your actions in terms of chaos and killing vs “sparing” it now also makes you question your choice to remain non lethal. Many of the non-lethal solutions are worse than simply killing the target. Hiram ends up a weeper, the Pendleton’s are forced into slavery, and Boyle is made captive to a stalker. These are not kind solutions. It makes one consider even more between a simple kill=bad no kill=good mentality. Additionally I think it works well with the idea that you can still kill every target while getting low chaos. Or you could consider it corvo taking out his wrath in a much more careful and cruel manner. Either way I think its a great choice despite the disgust.
Over all though great video I really enjoyed it.
"Getting caught without access to blink or bend time typically leads to a quick death"
Me on my 20th playthrough: _Maniacal laughing_
Hey, he never specified *who* would kick the bucket.
Thoroughly enjoyed this retrospective. Love a long form essay and can't wait to see more!
Thanks so much!
I can never get enough Arkane video essays, there's just so much going in their games to think about. You hit the nail on the head for so many of the reasons I adore this game and I thank you for highlighting how unique its nonlethal systems are. Looking forward to hearing your analysis on Prey/Mooncrash as I feel that game and dlc never got the attention they deserved.
I adore Prey, though I feel very mixed on Mooncrash so far. I don't know that I like the rogue-like shift and it makes me a bit wary about Deathloop, though I do trust in Arkane. I need to play it a lot more to fully form my thoughts.
Thanks for watching! :)
Personally I think the non-lethal option for Lady Boyle helps to emphasize the grim dark setting of Dishonored. Even the good guys stoop to some pretty scummy lows.
I still can't believe this was your first video, you have the writing skills and the voice of someone very experienced in deep games reviews. I just finished watching this video and can't wait for a moment in which I have another spare hour to see your analysis on Dishonored 2.
Hope your channel gets more visibility and gets recommended to more people, 22k views and less than 2k subs is WAAAAY too little for this caliber of content.
I can't believe this is your first essay, it's amazing, I especially like how you talked about all the different aspects of the game including the interpretation a player might come up with at certain points in the story - most Dishonored essays talk about the story or mechanics. Rarely both. I'm glad YT randomly recommended this to me and I hope you will continue creating :)
I remember when I first played this I did a 0 kill run EXCEPT for 1 giy at the beginning level that I forgot about. Necessitating another non lethal run entirely. Lol
I actually feel the opposite. I have the least amount of fun choking out a couple people and then blinking through the entire level. I get more satisfaction from setting up insane stunts to kill guards in the coolest way possible without getting caught
54:04 wdym, the guard dialogue is the most iconic part of the game
Iconic doesn't necessarily mean "quality voice acting". As much as I love our bumbling guards, I can see how their repetitive dialogue could be disliked
Should we gather for whiskey and cigars tonight?
@@seatoad951 Indeed.
@@seatoad951 Never doubt it.
@@seatoad951 I don't need shit from you.
If this is your first video essay, I can't wait to see how the channel evolves. Really fantastic work.
I found this series of videos and was worried it would just be another dry summary of events and mechanics, but was more than pleasantly surprised to find a thoughtful opinion piece loaded with insight and valuable critiques. Your narration is clear and to the point, and your editing is simple but effective. You don't waste the viewer's time with obnoxious jokes or overly detailed explanations of things they likely already know.
This is exactly the kind of video I appreciate, and also the style I go for in my own work as a result. Great stuff!
Emergent storytelling... Yyyup, that hit me hard.
Was originally gunning for the Low chaos... but midway though felt like stretching my Prince of Persia blade skills, and the poisoning/betrayal point was a fine excuse.
Probably avoided an intended difficulty spike giving in to the darkest hour trope and mercilessly cutting through Daud's goons. Poking around his hideout, hearing his doubts was a very poignant dark mirror in that attitude. "You went down that route... I won't. There still yet be hope for you too" Facing the man who killed Jessamine and letting him go was a powerful experience.
the whole thing about the heart is that all those issues are actually solvable in-game. the heart does beat faster the closer you get to charms and runes, and you can also turn off hud objectives in the menu so that it doesnt spoil the location of anything. the games got pretty customizable options for how old it is
Great video overall! I have a few things I'd like to comment on:
Chaos system and the morality of nonlethal play:
In my opinion, the issue with the Chaos system (which, to be fair, I generally like) isn't, as you say, that it punishes the player for murder; it's that it introduces a whole set of mechanics that are fun to use, but punishes you for exploring those mechanics via the chaos system. For a nonlethal player, the sword, mines, grenades, and pistol are all largely decorative. The pistol has the most upgrades of any equipment in the game, and it's not even close. It has 11 upgrades available for it. The next highest is the crossbow, with 7. There was obviously developer intent that the pistol be used -- why else would they put so much work into it, and thus encourage the player to do the same? As for the crossbow, its sleep darts are the only ranged nonlethal option in the game. The only two nonlethal eliminations in Dishonored are sleep darts and chokeholds. In a vacuum, that's fine, but there is zero capacity whatsoever to specialise the crossbow (or any other equipment) for nonlethal work. In fact, about 80% of the equipment and powers in the game are tailored towards lethal play.
This is annoying mostly because there are solutions to this -- as an example I just thought up, the pistol could be converted to "flashblanks", which are rounds with no projectile that produce a bright flash, briefly stunning and/or disorienting opponents, allowing a nonlethal player to break contact more efficiently at the cost of making a loud noise that attracts more guards. Suddenly, the pistol has a use for low-chaos characters, instead of being power wheel clutter. Dishonored 2 rectifies the lethal tool problem, in large degree through the addition of the [spoilers ahead] Clockwork Soldiers. Perhaps your stance is that having all these options and staying your hand is an example of ludonarrative harmony. If so, fair enough, and I can accept that viewpoint (and I regularly play low chaos myself). The fact remains that most of the player's abilities and tools are effectively locked out from a low chaos playthrough.
It's also my opinion that sometimes, the nonlethal route should generate just as much chaos as the lethal route, or perhaps more. Exposing Burrows' treachery should create pandemonium in the streets, as an entire city realizes they've been brought to the brink of ruin by a man they believed was doing the right thing for them. If that's not chaos, I don't know what is. And I wholeheartedly disagree that the Boyle Mansion's nonlethal resolution is bad. That it's disgusting and sick is a powerful thematic move, and makes the lethal vs. nonlethal choice more complex than "nonlethal better than lethal". It lends credence to the Loyalists' idea toward the end that they have done terrible things in the name of the conspiracy, and with this mission's resolution, Corvo is no different. Dunwall is not a place where you can get through it all with your hands squeaky clean.
You said that empathy is a theme in Arkane games. Well, completely agreed. In this case, the game is posing a very, very difficult question to the character, a question with no right answer: which choice is the more empathetic one? Is it disturbing? Yes, absolutely. Should it be? Yes, that's the point of the resolution. As for Piero, he is explicitly a creep. And just because you the player CAN enter the room and make a pass at Callista doesn't mean you need to. Again, the game leaves the choice to you. It strikes me as odd that you'd criticise this in the game, when earlier you praised the freedom of choice afforded to the player. Doubly so when you later praise ending Mr. Hatter as "the rare time killing the target is more empathetic". Is it just that sexual abuse makes you more uncomfortable than ending a life? If so, that's okay, but it deserves to be acknowledged.
Granny Rags' elixir still mission:
The low chaos resolution to that quest IS not completing it. In fact, if I recall the Corroded Man novel rightly, that's the canon choice.
The immediate reuse of Clavering Blvd:
The reason that you go right back is so that you can see how even so quickly, the world has changed. There is more security day by day. It adds a sense of time pressure to the narrative -- if the Loyalists are too slow, they might not be able to accomplish their mission. If you went high chaos against Campbell, you also get immediately exposed to the rapid degeneration of the city (Weepers appear where the last mission there were none) and this gives you time to turn the ship around on a high chaos playthrough, as you discussed in the Chaos Theory section of the video.
I love how The Outsider says “Delilah” in sync with Eric.
I disagree with you on the non-lethal aspect of some missions, specifically the Lady Boyle mission.
All of the non-lethal methods are horrific, the targets get to live but the rest their lives are filled with torture and misery. This sort of choice between death and a life lived in their own personal hell gives a flavour to your choices that far exceeds a standard good/bad choice.
Having these awful choices that make you feel icky is part if the genius of the world.
Also, you should feel pride in this video. It isn't good for a first video, it's just a damn good video, kudos.
exactly how I feel
Bitterness of this choice is that we MUST to decide people's fate: should they die as martyrs and get away easily with their crimes or should we give them long and painful punishment for their deeds. If you're merciful and grant quick deaths, there's more accusations for you (you're becomung an assassin for real this time and by your own decision not by enemy's word) and no lesson learned. And if you eliminate your targets "non-lethaly" you should consider that you basically doomed these people, albeit bad, for prolonged misery and suffering.
And this is pretty much the reflection of a real world. Each and every choice is f*cked at the core.
And gosh, I LOVE Dishonored for that.
@@TheSoundita I'm definitely gonna play Dishonored, also are there any graphic novels/books that I should read before hand?
@@Z3ROMyth There's no need in that. Before the first Dishonored, I mean. After that.... well, there's a lot of thing to read and learn outside the game itself.
The worst is definitely the twins
Holy shit, this is your first video? Wow
It's so well written, here's a sub
Can't wait for the next one.
I love the care and detail put into this. I would point out that killing the Geezer in the Brigmore Witches DLC does still kind of end up with you poisoning all the hatters in the place, so unless you KO all of them and take them outside (which totally gives me an idea for my next playthrough) it's still gonna end up with more collateral damage.
...Which actually just feeds into your point about how any act of violence, even a justified one can end up harming unintended people okay never mind, you're awesome.
this was an hour I've (for the most part, already seen) and enjoyed seeing it again
I completely understand your standpoint. Sadly, I suck at stealth, so I tend to just annihilate my opponent.
quality vid mate,
a quick note on the "chaos theory";
Early on, in corvo’s jail cell, written on the wall (we presume by him): “a little fire that warms is better than a big fire that burns”
the genius of these lines cant be understated; it not only foreshadows the chaos system to the player, but simultaneously in narrative context shows during his time stewing in prison (no doubt rife with emotional toil), over the course of half a year Corvo is pondering action and consequence. He is a prescient thinker and fighter; the traits bodyguards are hand-picked for. But more than that, he is contemplating to what end he will exact his revenge. He has every reason to unleash his wrath, but to what extent?
It evokes Nietzsche's "whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster"
The player and Corvo become one in that moment alone.
all this from a few lines, scribbled on a wall one might note even look at, at the opening of the adventure, locked behind bars, captivated...
just masterful.
The spying on Callista was unnecessary.
But I personally would leave the Lady Boyle non-lethal path. In the missions before, doing non-lethal runs might not have been pleasant for the targest (outcast, shunned and harmed by society and mutilated and consequent forced labor), but up until that point we can still justify this to ourselves as "karma". Now we get the creep involved and beging to wonder: Is not killing the targets and letting them suffer by the hands of others really that much better? If we want revenge/get rid of them, is it maybe not better swift, short und without long suffering? And the creepiness of her non-lethal takedown is the first and only that really forces us to reflect on that properly.
you have a point, but the game presents the non lethal option for boyle as the “better” option because it’s low chaos. I think it’s a little disappointing that arkane presents morality in a binary low or high chaos system, rather than letting the actions speak for themselves and having their own consequences.
I thought the spying on Callista scene was kinda funny, just for how much of a creepy sleeze bag it makes Corvo seem. Like running over pedestrians in GTA, it's funny to just be a chaotic lunatic sometimes. Like poisoning both glasses when killing Campell, it's another option in the game to be evil for no reason. I'm not going to say it's necessary or that important, but I do think it adds something to the game in just giving another opportunity to give Corco some characterization.
And I truly don't get people's reservation with lady Boyle. This is a game series where you brand someone's face with a hot iron, cut out someone's tongues and throw them into slavery in a mine, and literally lobotomize someone. How is Lady Boyle's fate any worse than that? Just because it has an implied sexual element? Realistically she suffers way less than any of the other targets.
If I had to be subjected to any of the non lethal punishments, I would choose Lady Boyle's over any of the other ones.
@@MegaNightmare4 She even gets the estate in the Corroded Man! It's by far the best outcome imo. Not good, just the best of the choices.
One and a half hours of dishonored 2 and I saw a hour long video essay we all know how it ended up
My confrontation with daud went the other way around, I planned on only killing him from the start of the mission and almost did it flawlessly, until I got to daud, to kill him and take the key without alerting anyone I used bend time and landed right next to him, to which he reacted, during bend time. Which makes sense, he also has that ability, but I didn't play the dlc before that and it kind of spooked me but then when I realized that we were dueling in stopped time, and that when it ended he signaled all assassins to go away that this was gonna be a very fun boss, and it was, the lightning fast sword clashes broken apart by blinks and long range combat, jumping in and out of bent time and desperately trying to get on each other's blind spots in a surprisingly good arena for being so cramped made that 30 second boss one of the most memorable I'll ever fight, and it seems like no one else has fought him like that
I especially liked the point you touched on when you described a non lethal playthrough's few kills to be more impactful due to their rarity. By sheer coincidence I recently played through Dishonored 1, its subsequent DLC's and then the sequel, throughly enjoying them all for the first time in years. I was playing a primarily non lethal Corvo, but I'd defend myself lethally if cornered. I was sneaking through Galvani's mansion after just choking out a guard when a second, equally surprised guard opened a door into the very same room I was in. He swung his sword at me and instinctively I counter attacked and stabbed him in the neck, killing him. From the guard's perspective I was a masked stranger crouching by his colleague's body so naturally he'd attack. But the quickness of the way I despatched him impacted me as the player and I imagine Corvo would feel the same. I think I may have killed a total of 9 enemies on that playthrough but the poor guard just doing his job was the one that affected me the most.
Having just replayed the dlcs again and fresh off that high seeing this video, so recent on such a now old game is just wonderful and I just cannot wait to see what more you have to come. Keep up the great work!
Shall we gather for cigars and whiskey tonight!?
Dishonored is such a beast of a game that's definitely ahead of its time.
The editing, the writing ,the narration , it is really good and i enjoyed your essay and i hope to see more soon from some of my favorite games all time, very nice job !
*Thing about Dishonored is that the "Nonviolent" ways of disposing of the main villains is actually LESS humane than killing them, as you are sentencing them to fates that are literally WORSE than death. How exactly are you any better than them?*
y know they are responsible for the plague that killed thousands of thousands people, death of the empress, kidnapping the empress daughter to use her or perhaps kill if she is not needed, and you were tortured and about to be sentenced to death. you wont pat them on head for this obviously
When I heard "Dishonored is the greatest game that I have ever played" it brought a tear to my eye
Before watching the video, just based on the title, video length, and by reading the about section on your channel, I'm already a fan haha
This is probably the most influential video on a video game I’ve seen. The moral and anti-cap values in this game just make it so much better, now that I realize them considering I was much younger when I visited this game. Well done
Great video essay, Eric. I love the in-depth worldbuilding in dishonored and how the game deviates from the traditional red/blue choice options. It really makes the decisions you choose feel more impactful and unique. I also thought your script was really well written.
34:22 ALL of the non-lethals are meant to be disgusting. This one is also meant to simultaneously reference"The Phantom of the Opera".
Yea, all non-lethal is: well that's just it. It's simply not killing. Every single option puts the target in a state of atonement (for lack of a better word)
Campbell's mark leads him to a state of despair and a need for help. Help he never receives, which leads to him becoming a weeper. Just like how he, as high overseer, did nothing to help the people of Dunwall as they died from plague.
The pendletons had their tongues cut out and heads shaved, then were forced to work in their own mines. The same ones they forced others to work for their life.
Lady Boyle was a rich woman who lived a life of leisure and splendor, while the city around her starved and crumbled. She was then kidnapped and brought to the world she avoided. (Even though rape is terrible and no one should ever suffer, I'd say it's better than dying: we never do learn if it was rape either. It's just assumed.) She even gets the estate when it's all said and done in The Corroded Man.
The Lord Regent (Hiram Burrows) had his crimes against the city and his confession for targeting the Empress publicized, causing him to be imprisoned in the very prison he tried to force Corvo's fake confession. (The Ironic Karma)
Havelock is sent to prison for his crimes and forced to live with all the regrets and mistakes in his life.
All these options aren't 'good'. They are simply ways of atonement instead of just outright killing them and causing the city to be a further disarray.
(Sorry for the year late post if you even see this!)
TL;DR
All are forms of atonement, not 'good'
@@AImightywoIf737 Well said.
@@ChairmanKam Thanks :)
i was somehow under the impression you had hundreds of thousands of subs & your video production quality reflects that! i'll definitely be sticking around for more, keep up the amazing work!
(it's been very very good to paint to)
I'd say one more criticism of Lady Boyle's last party is that while the non lethal option is a core aspect of the game as a whole, it's thrusted upon you a lot more aggressively here. I recall my very first playthrough way back when, this mission was somewhat ruined, as the man says "I need to speak with you, concerning why you're here." within just a minute or two of me getting my bearings of the layout of the party, then tells me who the real Boyle is, spoiling the solution almost instantly, with no big indication before hand that he was going to do so.
Ruining the entire crux of the mission's idea, investigating to figure out which Boyle is which through stealth. Having this as the nonlethal method can be discussed all day, but at least make it so I have to seek it out, rather than it walking up to me and ruining the mystique of the mission
The dlc made me realize how terrifying Corvo's mask is.
This channel is a hidden gem. When the video was about to end I scrolled down thinking id see 100k+ subs, not 1k subs.
Ok, while i agree with most points here, in the bright more witches, the hatters are making items for plague relief, and by putting the old man out of his misery, everyone but you within the hideout dies, which is the higher chaos and less morally good move
Found this two days before the premiere of part 2. Excellent. Looking forward to it.
I was blessed by the yt algorithm with this gem.
I've seen a decent amount of video essays on dishonored and this is on the top of the list. The 2 things I wish you had mentioned/made more emphasis are 1) worldbuilding, Dunwall is a really cool city, that feels lived in and real, and you can see it change and evolve as the game goes on and it also adapts to your chaos level 2) the music, I find the dishonored music to be one of the most fitting and best music in any game I've played. It really adds to the experience and goes really well with what the game makes you feel, to the point where listening without playing gives me some sort of nostalgic feeling for the first few playthroughs I did.
Amazing video my man, now I'm off to watching the Dishonored 2 one
I'm especially bothered how little views this has, but I am also grateful that I stumbled upon this video. Extremely well done and great to watch. I played this game start to finish a few times already, but I still had stuff to think about from this video. Keep making video essays, I enjoy these a lot
dude, this is your FIRST VIDEO? HOW??? this was absolutely amazing and did not feel as long as it actually was. you deserve more subs, and you’ve certainly earned mine.
This was a fantastic first video. You’ve got a sub from me. “We will watch your career with great interest”
"feel free to listen to them in the background"
absolute kingly hero shit right here, and SPECIFICALLY resulting in me subscribing and gently caressing and speaking sweet nothings into that bell button.
I like how the non lethal route for Daud still fits into the theme of ironic punishments. He regrets killing the empress and sees his death at the hands of Corvo to be a fitting punishment, but instead you can just deny him and walk away. This is probably the only time ive ever seen a good use of that common revenge trope where the protagonist spares the villain for seemingly no reason.
That's a wonderful study of DH1, thank you for the video! I loved all your points, negative and positive both. Dishonored is so layered, every time you play it or think about it, it reveals something new to you.
Dishonored games have a huge place in my heart and I love that as time goes on, they age wonderfully and more people can play it and experience this amazing story.
I kinda like the boyke just caused it show that sometimes a no kill rule will not be the most right way
The fact that he sees the high chaos and low chaos is great a system because it is as I have played high chaos and seen some of its outcomes as example Emily’s drawings will reflect your chaos high chaos players will have Emily see corvo as not a monster but as the masked person he has become while low chaos players will have her see them as a her dad corvo reflected most by her drawing of corvo at the end
I really liked your essay. Thank you. Now I'm itching for a replay of Dishonored, especially I've never got to play the DLC.
This is really well-done. I like your talk on the themes of empathy, though I was hoping you'd talk about the whales.
When I played this for the first time I tried doing nonlethal as much as possible. It felt like a lot of specific quests that allowed you to go nonlethal instead of the more freeform ability to use weapons to kill. However, for what it is it's very solid.
I did intend to talk about the treatment of whales in Dunwall more, but I felt worried about putting too much of my own ethics into the video. Perhaps in the next I will in more detail. I'm a vegan as I mentioned briefly, and so my views come out pretty strongly whenever I discuss animal violence. As I'm sure you can understand, many people on UA-cam wouldn't take kindly to a vegan ideology being pushed in a video otherwise about games.
With that said, I think Dishonored does a really good job showing how capitalism and industry exploit animals in the same ways they do humans. We see the whales being used as the literal means of powering industry. The fact of their oil being harvested while they are still alive only adds to the cruelty of it all. The Empire is powered almost entirely by the exploitation of these creatures, and it is truly tragic to see. The people the Isles don't really have it much better, sadly.
I think its a pretty potent way to illustrate how many people in our real everyday world uncritically use products that exploit animals or even kill them. There seems to really only be one person advocating for the whales in Dishonored (a small note found in the main game and DLC that illustrates their suffering.)
I hope, if there is ever a return to the Dishonored series, that we see this running theme of exploitation actually come to a head. I'll be discussing it in depth in my Dishonored 2 video, but I don't think the games ever adequately resolve the conflict they establish between the upper and lower classes. Perhaps Dishonored 3 will have a more revolutionary theme to it, could be quite interesting to see.
I hope you enjoy my rambling here, thanks for watching!
@@EricCrosby That rambling is exactly what I was looking for. The usage of whalebone in runes and charms always gave me an impression that the whales were related to the Outsider. Even outside of any lore speculation the plague always felt thematically karmic. Either way, that treatment of whales really fits with how self-interested the upper class are in the game.
@@ieatatsonic Within the lore I believe the whales exist simultaneously in the real world and in the void. That's why their 'oil' has magical properties. As far as I'm aware the whales were actually around as void entities before the Outsider, and that in some ways, they are what give him his power. I could be misinterpreting what I've read though.
The very fact you only have 322 subscribers is nothing short of criminal. This analysis was beyond thorough & very enjoyable to digest. Kudos!
Loved this look at one of my favourite games and the interesting commentary on violence in video games that I don't see explored enough. Looking forward to the next video!
I’ve beaten dishonored probably over 10 times. I watch dishonored videos to go to sleep. It’s literally my happy place
A long, well-written video essay about a game I love done by a small channel? Sign me up!
58 minute of content on a channel with
160 subs. You're taking a big leap. I hope it worked out well for you
Another great video about my fav game. Thank you for those kind words. It really worms my heart to see that people are still playing and praising this game.
Daud's favor system always reminded me of the first Thief games. Kind of like buying hints, maps or supplies for the mission ahead.
It's ridiculous this is your first video, I just started playing this again and wow your analysis is 100/10!!
My prefered playstyle is more knocking out every guard in a building for half an hour an going exploring afterwards rather than just sneeking around normally
Dishonored remains one of my favorite games of all time; I replay it about once a year. My first playthru had a high chaos ending, and I was dissatisfied. I immediately replayed it with a stealth approach, and the resulting low chaos ending was one of the most satisfying and emotional game endings I've ever experienced. It still moves me each time I play to that ending and then the closing song comes on over the credits.
We deserve a Dishonored 3, no cap
when i first played this game I had no idea it was from the 360 era. the graphics hold up really well
this is the first dishonored video i ever watched. since then, i’ve had 8 playthroughs, all of which i have loved. i played totally non lethally, brutally, going out of my way to kill everyone i saw, and a pure stealth playthrough. the amount of replayability in this game is insane for a game like this. arkane made a masterpiece.
Thoroughly enjoyed your video essay, Eric. I played Dishonored for the first time recently. I inadvertently went down a high chaos/murdery route on my first run and whilst looking for some tips on youtube found a number of stealth/no kills walkthroughs and realised this was The Way. I tried to turn the tide of chaos, but it was too late. My second playthrough, started almost immediately after completing the first, was a considered, slower, stealthy non-violent affair, and as much as I enjoyed the high chaos muderous mosh, the low chaos stealth ballet was so much more satisfying. As an aside, I found the High Chaos "good" ending to be worse than the high chaos "bad" ending - given what I/Corvo had done, it felt like a final kick in teeth to see what became of Emily if I saved her. Anyway, it's a wonderful, brilliant, engrossing game, and at no point in either of my playthroughs did I think "this game is 10 years old".
This games visuals hold up the same way old oil paintings hold up, they are somewhat timeless works of art.
Amazing video! I especially loved when you spoke of the whale in the DLCs, and touched on how this is a society built on oppression (of the working class, yes, but also on the mass slaughtering of the whales). I've always liked that Daud remains silent if he kills the whale out of mercy; why is he doing it? Does he feel empathy for this creature even though he spent his life dehumanizing his targets? Is it just because Billie seemed sad to see the whale suffer? We don't know. I love how the first game relies so much on the player's interpretation of things (something that you also talked about when you mentioned how Corvo being Emily's father is never truly confirmed within the game).
Also, I don't remember who says it in the game, but they seem to suggest something absolutely terrible is going to happen once the whales are all gone. It's always struck me as quite poignant that all of this world is possibly going to its doom, and nobody is aware of it, except the Outsider.
Found this on Reddit, wonderful video! You’ve earned my subscription.
Edit: And funny enough, your favorite mission (Lady Boyle’s) is my least favorite, while your least favorite mission (the Flooded District) is the best part in my opinion. It perfectly shows the decay and terror that you hear of about the plague, but never truly see at first hand.
6:15 A cloudy sky? You can see the shadow of the man piloting the boat. It is more sunny than cloudy.
Just finished dishonored 1 for the first time. I love how even the non lethal options are super satisfying. It still feels like justice is done and that you aren’t cheated for not killing
I'm gonna go ahead and copy/paste my reply from the Reddit thread I found your video from:
As someone who has put over 1k hours into the original Dishonored, I appreciate everything said in this video. The original is still my favorite single-player game of all time.
The second game was a bit disappointing, but was still good.
All in all, this video was very worth the watch and I'm looking forward to the parts to come!
I really appreciate the feedback, thanks so much. I agree that Dishonored 2 was a bit disappointing, and my next video will largely be a discussion of how it succeeds and fails to live up to the original. Personally I think they are both about even in terms of quality. I hope you'll stay tuned to hear my thoughts on it!
With the mission where Sokolov is to be kidnapped I actually decided I wanted to try a low chaos route at that point and I completely forgot that I wasn’t here to kill so I thought I was on route to a different ending when I kidnapped him not realizing that’s what I was supposed to do
this video summed up Dishonored perfectly, I agree it is almost perfect and whatever small gripes there are pale in comparison to the overall quality. A modern masterpiece
The amount of time, dedication, and love that's been put into this video is obvious from the first minute! Excited to see what comes next on your channel!!
Just finished this game in 2023, truly stands the test of time and can't WAIT to play part 2!