Was Jesus only a human Messiah? - The Ebionites & Jewish Christians
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- Опубліковано 26 тра 2022
- In this episode, we explore what little we know of the mysterious group of Jewish Christians known as the Ebionites.
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Sources/Suggested Reading:
Brakke, David (2012). "Gnostics: Myth, Ritual, and Diversity in Early Christianity". Harvard University Press.
Chilton, Bruce & Craig A. Evans (ed.) (1998). Studying the historical Jesus: Evaluations of the state of Current Research. Brill.
Ehrman, Bart (2005). "Lost Christianities: The Battles for Scripture and the Faiths We Never Knew". OUP USA.
Holmén, Tom & Stanley E. Porter (ed.) (2011). Handbook for the study of the historical Jesus. Volume 1. Brill.
Levine, Amy-Jill; Dale C. Allison Jr. & John Dominic Crossan (2006). The Historical Jesus in Context. Princeton University Press.
#Ebionites #Jesus #Christianity
Loved this. Thanks for keeping me company and educating me while i do the dishes :)
The most spiritual of activities!
@@LetsTalkReligion ua-cam.com/video/uZdv-TtiMkg/v-deo.html
ua-cam.com/video/uZdv-TtiMkg/v-deo.html
I would love to talk to you about early Christianity. The first sects developed after the death of Jesus were the Nazarenes and the Ebionites. I think there are a lot of bridges we can create by going back in the time to the 2nd Temple Era.
@@LetsTalkReligion
Jesus wasn't Jewish lol
Jesus is a Jew a big difference
Yes, finally, the Ebionites. The earliest form of Christianity according to many scholars. Definitely interesting for people interested in the historical Jesus
Oh you're interested in Jesus are you? Who the fuck says you can discuss my father, my father in public? I'm going to ensure you pay for this. Fully
No evidence of Jesus existing but go off I guess 🤷🏻♂️
@abu butter not really
@@beardedman1692
_"No evidence of Jesus existing..."_
Correct.
It's funny how everyone just glosses over that fact.
@@beardedman1692 the scholarly consensus is that a historical Jesus existed, but it it much more ambiguous what he did or preached
Filip's videos are always a delight to watch because he takes an in depth look into delicate religious subjects with a serious dedication to explain the topic in the least biased manner possible.
There is also the fact that the comments almost always contain some absolute acid trips of confusion and madness, which is nice and the cherry on the cake for me.
Looking forward to this one
True love = the love of God!
*God himself went to the cross for you out of love for you as a human being*
Philippians 2:5-8
@@tomolo2619 Which makes no sense whatsoever.
All religions presented themselves as Llies when they denied Jesus his sacrifice!
God is holy and therefore inevitably always righteous. So God can never be merciful, gracious, because grace is not justice and therefore is wrong! A holy God can only be holy if he Never does wrong !! So Fact is without Jesus his SACRIFICE out of love for us we would all be lost! Only YHWH is not lying when he says he is HOLY and merciful! Who is YHWH equal? Exactly no one!!
JESUS gave himself as a sin offering !! A pure life for a life !! Because we have to be holy = without guilt otherwise God will judge us fair and just !! Jesus is YHWH and thus the Creator of everything and thus has the weight to wash the whole creation clean with these pure lives (Blood) !! God bless you
@@tomolo2619 i too go through religious psychosis after an adderall binge
Oh look. It’s that acid trip of madness and confusion. Thanks, Tom! So helpful.
Jesus was a men and the messenger of God Peace be upon him
There sure is much debate on who exactly Jesus was. At this point I don't think there's any way to find out so many people throughout history interpreted his life differently. Even all Christians don't agree on what he really was. This is why I couldn't never be religious there are countless different views on everything.
Islam is not the way. Mat 19 17.
@@brenosantana1458bot
It is even more fascinating to know that I have come to believe everything that Ebionates believe without even knowing that such a group ever existed until now. 😮
Its the classical blind following the blind
So you are basically a Muslim.
*ACTUALLY THE TRUE FOLLOWRS OF YESHUAH SAW HIM AS PROPHET NOT A DIVINE GOD, AND BASED IN TORAH TORAH MORAL MITZVAH IS FOR EVERYONE EVEN FOR GOYM NO JEWISH, GREEK NEW TESTAMENT IS EUROPEAN MADE EVEN NAZARINES DIDNT ANTHING TO DO WITH IT.
IM A FORMER CHRISTIAN FOR OVER 35 YEARS AND CHRISTIAN MINISTER, BUT THE ANCESTOS WHO END THE LIFE OF THE JESUS WAS TERMINATED BY THE ANCESTORS OF CHRISTIANITYTHE EUROPEAN, AN THE BEST PROOF IS GREEK NEW TESTAMENT, ONE MORE TIME GREEK NEW TESTAMENT, NOT HEBEW TESTAMENT, THE HEBREW LANGUAGE WAS BOTH THE NATIONAL AND RELIGIOUS LANGUAGE OF FIRST CENTURY ISRAEL NOT GREEK, THE GREEK LANGUAGE WAS HATED IN THAT TIME, AND THE COMMON LANGUAGE NOT RELIGIOUS LANGUAGE WAS ARAMAIC, JEUS/YESHUAH I NIT THE THE TRUE PROPHET YESHUAH, BUT GECORROMAN GOD JESUS,HA SATAN INVENTION, EVIL INCARNATED.*
ACTUALLY I KNOW ABOUT THEM SINCE THE 80S..
@@TorahApologetics That makes sense, since The Ebionites started as a new wave group in 1979.
Every video on this channel is pure gold for anyone interested in the history of religion. It feels good to still be able to find such valuable content on UA-cam. Thank you a lot for the effort you put into this channel. It is highly appreciated!
Great video however one caveat, while Ebonites are described as vegetarians that is a bit anachronistic and their diet today wouldn't be seen as vegetarian as they didn't consider fish or locust to be animals so their diet was limited to avoiding mammals and birds.
Rod Preece, Sins of the Flesh: A History of Ethical Vegetarian Thought p.124-6;
Well you answered what I asked above.
The obedient must be slaves
ua-cam.com/video/8JyqZKGXAg4/v-deo.html
There are NO good guys now
So they were pescatarians
@@AmonsRealm to us yes, but not to them vegetarian, pescatarian are modern concepts, they would be described, by themselves and their contemporaries as those who do not eat flesh
Makes sense. Would have probably been hard to get fisherman to follow you if you were against eating fish
Makes sense given the framework they came out of. Both, according to kosher dietary laws, are considered parve (neutral, neither meat nor dairy).
LOVED this one, early and proto Xty is truly fascinating, hope you do some more on this, Thank You!
I’d like to see a video on the Nestorian church. They were the most significant branch of Christianity out of the Roman sphere of influence and had a great deal of influence on Islam. They still exist today in India and Iraq, but at one point were spread as far as from Saudi Arabia to China and Mongolia.
nestorians essentially created islam
@@goldsaint7 please Islam was a copy and paste of Christianity with heretical views nothing that the Quran says has any merit. A book that comes hundreds of years later after Jesus is supposed to be the truth? The book is all over the place and makes no sense just a bunch of rambling ls from a heat stroke old man
Let's talk religion.
If you do a search, you will find the human is a virus, a plague on this planet.
The naked ape enjoys status so much, he dreams of a deity being interested in him.
The State & The Church are likewise authoritarian cults of wealth creation & preservation.
The GOP uses Jesus-lingo as a uniform, their extreme lying, a demonstration of loyalty.
Thanks to them, we have 500 years of looting & torture called the inquisitions.
In the XII century significant events take place, as described in the Gospels: the coming of Jesus Christ, his life and crucifixion, although the existing text of the Gospels was edited and most likely dates to the XIV-XV cc. In the mid XII century, in the year 1152, Jesus Christ is born. In secular Byzantine history he is known as Emperor Andronicus and St. Andrew the Apostle the First-Called in Russian history he was portrayed as the Great Prince Andrey Bogolyubsky. To be more specific, Andrey Bogolyubsky is a chronicler counterpart of Andronicus-Christ during his stay in Vladimir-Suzdal Rus’ of the XII century, where he spent most of his life. In fact, the Star of Bethlehem blazed in the middle of the XII century. This gives us an absolute astronomical dating of Christ’s Life. [ЦРС], ch.1. ‘Star of Bethlehem’ - is an explosion of a supernova, which at present is incorrectly dated to the middle of the XI century. The present-day Crab Nebula in the Taurus Constellation is the remnant of this explosion. Enigmatic timber scarcity in Late Antiquity and Early Middle Ages as first recognized by dender-pioneer Ernest Hollstein (1918-1988) "No sites exist anywhere with uninterrupted timber specimen from about 1000 CE backwards to Imperial Antiquity(1st-3rd c.). which is why the dendro-chronologies for Ancient Rome and, thereby the entire first millennium are in disarray. Since the very existence of the chronology periods without wood samples was never doubted by the researchers, nobody started to question our textbook chronology. Instead, out of stratigraphic context, scholars searched for wood samples in wells or moors to fill the irritating gaps. In addition, identical reign sequences were used twice in a row to gamer more years. Therefor, "all dendrochronological datings done on West Roman time wood is wrong by some unknown number of years"(")
Tawhid word is not present in quran., islam dod not correct anything., it polluted the pure relixion of yisrael and added pagan elements like kissing stones and running around cubes…
As always an excelente and very comprehensive video. Thanks for your work
Loved it. I'm amazed at the conciseness and depth. Can't wait for more early Christianity episodes.
Very well constructed. Thanks for the hard work.
I appreciate all you do!! Thank you
Theresa
Great series, keep it up!
I love how much more professionally produced and polished your content as got over time as the channel as grown but you stick to using your original opening still of you standing looking deep in thought infront of the religious symbols. I like that 👍🏻
Very interesting and exciting topics! 🔥
Thank you for your effort! ✊🏼
PASCAL!!??!! I LOVE IT😅😅
Just want to say that I appreciate the time you take to teach us the history that happened alongside the "making" of all the different religions you've talk about. I'm not a religious person but I do like hearing the histories of these people's that are well-known now in our time, but long forgotten that they've actually existed once-in-a-lifetime.
I don't know for me your videos gives me a certain of understanding to why there is even a religion to begin with.
So for me I've founded out that religion is a oath that a human take to live among peace and to also not let their savagery instinct that had been passed by their primal ancestors to become the value of life itself. Yes evil still exists but its a better feeling knowing that the good is also out there among us.
Nice comment and thoughts.
Religion is a way of life and believes about God, after-life, death, purnishment and heaven.
To put simply. What is the purpose of man's existence on earth??
According to Islam, God (Allah) created man so that man can Worship him alone, glorify him and perform good acts that will ultimately lead man to his salvation and eternal life in heaven. Failure to submit to God's authority and supremacy as well as not performing good deeds will lead man to God's displeasure and eternal purnishment.
The most important element of the religion is believe in One God who created everything else. He alone deserves respect, worship, awe and glorification. This is called Tawheed (monotheism). Everything else besides him are false deities and sacrilege to the concept of monotheism.
The most important figures of this conception of Tawaheed are Noah, Abraham, Moses and Muhammad.
All were monotheistic preachers whom God sent to guide men and teach them this reality. They called for abandonment of other deities and beings that people held as devine or worthy of worship.
Hence, the meaning of Lailaha illalah ( There is no god worthy of worship except God alone).
Understanding religion or not, it's in people interest.
I disagree with the thinking that people need to form any kind of group or organization to make them feel there is a distinction between good and evil.
It's God's existence that gives you confirmation about that kind of thinking, no matter when, where, or how many people like you out there.
It's people who stray away from the only rightful definition of good and God. Hence, religions, not religion.
Study long enough, read enough, then you will have the urge to seek out the truth.
Seek truth, and you will find it.
This is so fascinating to hear these unbiased stories keep it going man you deserve my support 👏
You are Amazing! Your channel is so informative and the knowledge you are spreading is so beautiful! Thanks for sharing wisdom.
This is my favorite historical period to look at. The transition from Judaism to Christianity really trips me up.
Is amazing. I call Jesus the liberator becasue he liberated people from the rituals and traditions, and taught what really matters to God. For example, to love God, have mercy on the rest of the world and live and help them.
There was no transition from Judaism to Christianity. The followers of Christ, the Church were already divorced from Judaism. The Apostles were kicked out from Synagogues and persecuted by mainstream Judaism.
Jesus never intended a second religion.
@@joseportillo61 wht do u mean by liberate?
Are u saying gods law was cursed..
Yes jesus taught pple spirituality but he didnt trhrow the law out of window.. like Christians do nowadays..
Drowning in immorality, fornication and sin is an direct consequence of abandonment of law which tells pple to do good and avoid evil..
Without law u can love God all u want but still be a sinfull person as u will have to idea how to live and wht to do.. about whts allowed and not..
Thts where islam comes its a balance of law and spirituality
It also triped the rest of us up, we all fall down . 😏
Enjoyed the video, please do more like this.
Awesome! I cannot wait to see this video.
I really like your videos. Keep up the good work :)
Wow! I mean WOW!
It goes without saying, but I’ll say it anyway. I appreciate, as do many many other people, your willingness to share with anyone willing to accept it, the opportunity to learn about religion from a dedicated scholar, a luxury many of us would not be able to have otherwise.
Thank you!
I like that this presenter appears to have no "axe to grind," no "dog in the fight." This is merely history, as nearly as history can be determined. Subscribing today.
Thank you for covering this topic Philip, as someone who is inspired by the Dharmic traditions, seeing Jesus personally more as a God-realized Yogī, - He is mentioned as such in the Bhaviṣya Purāṇa - the Ebionite perspective is somewhat closer to my personal perspective. I’ve also heard many Muslim scholars point to the Ebionites as the original followers of Jesus from the Quranic perspective
That vision isn't supported by the Bible. In the Bible you don't gain spiritual status by "illumination". The original followers of Jesus were the Netzarim (Acts 24)
What is the Bhavisya Purana? How does it mention Jesus?
@@CarlosMdz72 Jesus never mentioned the Trinity either but many Christians follow that teaching. I am not Christian and I don't understand how people can have so many interpretations of the scripture. Seems like much of Christianity evolved over time.
From Islamic point of view, not exactly. Quran admited the virgin birth of Jusus peace upon him, his case as Adam created for uniqueness purpose, his massage extended from Moses as the case of Mohammed massage. He came to change many concepts such as the ethnicity such as the sons of God also he came to correct what was changed in the beleive due to human writing and translation based on culture, language and personal inclinations. As he will make radical shift that will cause backlash in the faith, affecting thought and emotion, and to absorbing that reactions he equipped with powerful miracles and the most powerful one is his birth.
@@LisaAnn777 ua-cam.com/video/N-el4Ad8Mcg/v-deo.html
Please watch from 1hr 27mins the speaker is covering the Bhavisya Purana and Jesus Christ
Great video. Keep it up!
I'd seen this video on my recommendations before but I decided to go find it because I was wondering about the possibility of similar groups surviving into the 7th century and influencing Islam so I'm glad you included that part at the end :)
Your videos are amazing. I appreciate your channel a lot man! Keep it up! (Also, can we please get a video on Zen? Christian author and monk Thomas Merton wrote very interesting books on Zen from a Christian perspective, it sparked my interested given the fact that it has become quite popular in the West)
Are you talking about Zen buddhism?
Thank you so much for being so informative, it's almost impossible to get information in such a clear, concise and religious agenda free manner
Exactly.This gentleman and religion for breakfast have really helped on my way through a very difficult existential crisis. The most important ingredient for that which caught my attention was this stern academic impartialism.
This was a crisis which continued for the past 25 years, since my teens almost solved in 2 years with serious reading and watching videos for direction. I feel i have created many more intriguing questions in the past 2 years, but never waste time or lower my quality of life anymore, for someone else's historical perspective (modern religion)
@@c5quared626 here is an answer from AFRICAN perspective : THEY ARE ALL MADE UP, IMAGINARY IDEAS!!!
Excellent work! Well done!
Cavolo, veramente curioso di saperne di più prossimamente! 😮
Very VERY Interesting! That was Facinating..! And provided some good information! Thank you..🙏🏾🌹
Nice clear summary of first century events. I highly recommend Reza Aslan's book "Zealot" and Monty Python's movie "Life of Brian". It can't be emphasized enough how many "messiahs" and splinter groups were part of the scene at the time. Kind of like upstate New York in the early 19th century but without the Roman wine, aqueducts, sewer systems, low crime rates... The fact that Paul was literate and saw recruitment and spread as prime directives left James and his crew in the dust.
I loved this topic. Good work
Wow I really want to hear more about the contentions between early christian leaders. That is very interesting what you included in the end
this is a very valuable channel
Great video! It's pretty interesting how circular is the history of Christianity. This debate could easily be had during the Reform in the 1500 or between an atheist and a believer 5 minutes ago. Nothing really new.
Great production and smooth narration.
I love your videos man great content thank you!
Great video, I enjoyed it. Apparently, these folks (or some similar group) were last heard of sometime in the 12th century. I wonder if they were persecuted to extinction or died out through failure to proselytize. Also interesting is that, as nominal vegetarians, one of the raging controversies of early Christianity, namely the consumption of meat sacrificed to pagan gods, would have been utterly outside their belief system.
could you make a video of the following topic: "different versions of Jesus life from age 5 to 30"?
There are many teories, and it would be intersting to find out how you investigate them to find out which seems to have any chances to be true. Some of them say that Jesus traveled to places as far east as India an Kashmir and was influence by buddist texts and teachings, others say hindu vedic texts, etc. There are also countless theories what happen to Jesus after deth - from resurection to escape and preaching to people from very distant land like England, Japan, and America... they all seem a bite fantastic but it's intersting that they all have their own followers today and some become even very popular like Mormonizm. Could you explore this topic more? It would be appreciated.
Excellent. Going to read more about this group. Thanks!
Thank you for the thought provoking video.🌱
The belief in the Future Messiah is arguably older than Judaism itself, also existing in Zoroastrianism, and other religious traditions.
In 2nd Temple Judaism, there were different messianic ideas floating around:
Basically one that of a Human Messiah, a Davidic King, and there's even the belief in two more messiahs: a Priest and a Prophet.
And other of a Heavenly Messiah, the "Son of Man", the Son of God, the Son of the Most High, a Spiritual being who would sit on the throne of God and set in the Last Judgement.
Most interesting thing about Christianity is that it conflates all of these notions: Jesus is the Davidic King Messiah, Priest, Prophet, the Son of Man, the Son of God.
In Islam there are two messiahs: Jesus's second coming and the Mehdi, the latter is supposed to be a just political leader not a prophet. They and the anti-christ are supposed to appear around the same time.
no
@@aladinsura121 Not true. Imam Mahdi is not a Messiah he is just a leader amongst muslims. Only Jesus pbuh is the Messiah
Was Jesus ever a priest?
Zoroaster or Zarathrushstra, according to the more recent scholarly consensus, lived in the 6th century BC, so not older than Judaism.
Thank you for another great video, Filip! I have always called them the EH-bionites. Before there were the gentile Christians who followed Paul, there were the Jewish Christians who followed Jesus. Paul basically hijacked the emerging Christian religion. This will indeed be a fertile field of study for future videos.
Paul didn't hijack it, he converted to Christianity
Paul stopped killing when converted to Christianity
Mhmd started killing when starting islam
There's your difference
@@feduntu This is very probably the time of the great falling away prophesied of in the Bible. Heresy is rising to a fever pitch. Look to Islam for the coming Antichrist.
@@feduntu No, you are mistaken about this, as are the vast majority of Christian believers. And surprisingly enough, the clues are right in your Bible, in the Book of Acts, and Paul's Epistle to the Galatians. Yeah, Paul supposedly had his conversion on the road to Damascus, a story that Paul's wingman and PR agent Luke tells no less than three times in the Book of Acts - yet there are significant discrepancies in the details between all three accounts that would raise eyebrows in a court of law. Paul converted the fledgling Jesus movement to his own way of thinking at least as much as he himself was converted - that much is clear. Another thing that is clear from the Book of Acts is that Paul had major disagreements with James the Just, who both Paul and Luke call the Brother of the Lord (Jesus) . The original Jesus movement, and Jesus' original followers, were thoroughly Jewish and Torah observant, and we can safely assume that Jesus was also, which is backed up in the Gospel of Matthew. In chapter 15 of the Book of Acts, at the Jerusalem Council, Paul succeeds in getting James to agree to a drastically shortened list of Jewish observances. In chapter 21 of the Book of Acts, James orders Paul to go through a week long ritual of penance and purification to prove his allegiance to the Jerusalem Church and the Law, because James has heard by that point that Paul has been preaching to the Jews of the diaspora to forsake the Law of Moses, and the customs, and urging them not to circumcise their male children. At the end of this period of penance and purification, Paul goes down to the Jerusalem Temple to make a final offering, and he is confronted by an angry mob due to rumors that he has admitted gentiles into the temple to defile it, and also that he has been preaching against the Law. This bad blood between Paul and the Jews is so serious that there are even plots to murder him that are so serious that Paul finally reveals his Roman citizenship and is escorted by armed guard to the Roman port city of Caesarea to save his life. Read this in chapters 21 to 23 of the Book of Acts. You can also read about Paul's haughty, defiant attitude towards the Jerusalem Church leadership, and his confrontation of Peter, another leader or pillar of the Jerusalem Church in Antioch, calling him a hypocrite to his face. You can also infer from Paul's haughty, defiant attitude that he does not submit to their authority. The original schism between the gentile followers of Paul and the Jewish Jerusalem Church of Jesus' original Jewish followers came along so early in the history of Christianity that it totally falls under the radar of most Christians - but it happened, and written evidence of it is there, even in your Bibles. And even Luke in the Book of Acts, who is otherwise eager to portray Paul in the best light possible, cannot cover up these serious schisms and disagreements between Paul and the original Jesus movement; to his credit, these conflicts were so large and significant that Luke had to admit them, and could not gloss over them or sweep them under the rug.
@@naiman4535 what part is the mistake abdool?
Did mhmd not commit murder after converting to Islam?
Yet Paul did the opposite when converted to Christianity, that alone is good enough argument to debunk your 7th century Nestorian stone worshipping beliefs
ua-cam.com/video/vvqgVS8KVJA/v-deo.html watch this video to understand more on this topic :
I'd love to hear more about this James
Thank you so much for this interesting topic.
Another possibility for the the origins of the word “Ebion” could be from the arabic word “ابى" - “Aba” - To refuse.
أبيون: “Abiune” : Those that refuse
Possible do you think ????
Arabic and Hebrew are distantly related, so a lot of the root words sound similar. Case in point, 'ebyon' comes from an earlier root 'abah,' you can probably see the connection. Considering the location it probably comes from Hebrew.
interesting! Quite possible, I think. Ebionites- those who refuse the official Jewish religion.
@@jared_bowden It probably comes from Hebrew but I would definitely say that Hebrew and Classical Arabic are closely related not distantly. They're both West Semitic languages, that's very very close phylogenetically
good theory , those that refuse the divinity of Jesus
“ Those whom refuse Trinity”
Absolutely fascinating. Fantastic as usual. Thank you for your work.
Awesome video!!! It is perfect ❤ 😭
Brilliant informative and thank you so much for enlightenment.
Ebionites believes that Jesus wasn't born from a virgin (as in Jesus being biological son of Joseph) and crucifixion happened to Jesus, so it's also clashes with common Muslims' beliefs about Jesus (as Wine being partaked in rites is still parts of Kosher diet, but swine and those akin to crabs tend to be forbidden in Kosher dietary law of Ebionites, similar to Rabbinical Judaism), not to mention that the common Muslim beliefs of Jesus escaping Crucifixion presents in the Christian Gnostic Basilidean gospels & texts and certain Apocryphal Sethian texts instead of neither Ebionites, Nazarenes, etc
But Ebionites also have certain similar beliefs with the Sufi Islam's Cosmology of Primordial Man created before Adam as a "Great Angel" (Logos or Christ), which is separate from human Prophet/teacher Jesus, which presents in Mystical Islam as "Nur Muhammad", similar to Valentinian concept of Aeon Anthropos (paired with Aeon Ecclesia, or Aeons Nous & Aletheia) or Sethian concept of Barbelo (as Androgynous creation with both masculine and feminine contradiction paired as a whole of creation template by Sethians), so there was even original mixing points between Gnostic tendencies and Jewish Christian tendencies even in the first century
Remember, aside from Ebionites, a Jewish Christian with Gnostic-like beliefs akin to Cerinthus and Menander and even Simonians existed, each not just having James as their sources of Apostleship lineage (Or Sanad of Sahaba-Tabi'in) in Islamic terms), with Cerinthus dating even earlier than Ebionites and also have "weird" beliefs while also deeming Mosaic Law as necessary despite rejecting YHWH/Elohim as True God and more of a benevolent but deficient world-shaping Angel, Gnostic Justin's Book of Baruch also exists too as parts of the obscurity origin between "Gnostic" and "jewish-Christian" lineages and the "Church Fathers" also recorded them too, which makes things even more confusing to track down the origin, the original Jesus teachings might have combination between 'Gnostic'-like, 'Jewish'-like, 'Orthodox apostolic'-like, etc
Well this was a comment I never thought I needed but am glad I stopped to read. Good show, ol’ man.
Islam is not the way into heaven.
May I ask how do you know so much about this subject?
@@ngmmngw9027 Not for yourself, at least currently.
@@FarhatKCh There are these objects referred to as.........books......
Great video. Learning about the Ebonite's was a key phase in my deconstruction of Evangelicalism. I had the idea that there was this perfect "ur-Christianity", but that's very clearly not the case. But that's ok, because every religion is like that, which is part of the fun in studying them.
My Episcopalian priest explained it using a metaphor of tree. All kinds of trees but anyone can look at them and go “yup that’s a tree”. Are their edge cases like the Banzai or certain woody bushes? Sure, but the category still stands
Yeah - talk about deconstructing the evangelicals - now those are some people who seriously need to be deconstructed! They're so keen on ferreting out heresy and false doctrine because the truth is that THEY were the first heretics, and Paul, their founder was the original apostate from the true faith.
@@davidnotonstinnett yep, ALL are IMAGINARY! !!
@@tesmith47
But, this doesn’t mean they can’t point to truths. The idea of certain particles or various elements of nature envisioned in antiquity was just abstract metaphysical speculation until science and experimentation started confirming some of these ideas. I think of some kind of God or creator in the same way. Yeah like all ideas, it’s man-made, but that doesn’t automatically make it false.
Hello can you elaborate exactly what learning about ebionites taught you?
Awesome video. I wish we had more information on the Ebionites.
Thank you for this great video
Ebionites is one of the most interesting groups of "christians" ever existed! I would love to know more about their practices! Thank you for this excellent analysis.
Ebionites where not christians they where EBIONITES...If anything the Christians are the Ebionites of today...what do you think?
As nazarene we are confused with ebionites which are said to be heretical for saying that jesus wasn't god's manifestation neither he's son born of a virgin, which nazarenes do not believe. The nazarenes or nazorene say to be the first christians. Paul and james did not disagree, it is about how you interpret their verses and about the fact that there are still nazarenes remaining and who admit that the bible suffered from miss traductions who change the meanings of these verse who look disagreeing and also the Jewish custom and culture of the time referred about in some of these verses not understable from pagan perspective 2000years later.
I love Jesus as my prophet. May Allah guide us all to the right path
Allahu akbar
@@ren.8137indeed God is the greatest Alhumdullilah
Ur religion is false and Jesus is more then just prophet
God bless you dear, as a teacher I Like the way you explain as sincere teacher ,as long you truly offer the truth and facts without exaggerating, it's relax the mind
really learn something... thank you for your work
5:33 I would disagree here given that Luke in Acts does record that while Peter and James were in the pro-circumsition camp initially, Peter later moved to the Paul's camp on that issue and while people would say "Acts isn't reliable" no, Luke has proven in his previous gospel to be as reliable as just about any ancient historian.
But even then, Paul also records in Galatians of Peter coming towards his camp, tho still being pressured by the Judaisers to often outwardly pretend to be on their side, which Paul was calling out.
Kinda interesting that they held James to such high regard given he was the first of the Apostles to die, meaning that he probably held to the position of the Judaizers until his relatively early death while most of the others would have flipped to the position of Paul and Peter.
These are two different James's (in our English translations, really Iakovos or Jacob). The James whose memory was held in high esteem by the Ebionite sect (although he was not one of the Judaizers that Paul had an ongoing dispute with) was James the Just, the brother of the Lord (martyred AD 62), not James the brother of John who died earlier.
Actually Paul was alone in the situation of Galatians 2. Even Barnabas turn off from him.
Why should you believe what Paul writes as facts in the first place? Christians don’t seem to think critically enough
Being vegetarian, while seemingly a minor dietary quirk, actually makes a lot of sense within their framework. It's a pretty common belief that when moshiach comes that we will be vegetarians (and only the mincha offerings in the beis hamikdash). Rav Kook actually took it further promoting vegetarianism today to hasten the coming of the messiah.
While the oral torah was still being compiled somewhat contemporaneously, the belief in vegetarianism is mentioned in both talmud babli as well as the yerushalmi.
This is a world of mouths, where everything eats and is eaten, that even time itself will have you between its teeth and grind you down to the dust that you are.
The body requires life in order to live, likewise you cut the sacrifice of sustainance to pieces with the serrations of your mouth.
Don't you understand that creation and destruction are one? That there can be no life without murder, and there can be no murder without life?
You hurl the corpses of the dead into your mouths and give thanks for their sacrifice, just as one day you will become food to other living beings just the same.
And do not think yourselves better for eating leafs and drinking the sap, and do not think others worse for eating meat and drinking the blood.
You yourself will deny your sacrifice to those who depend on it, thinking yourself wise and proper while you are arrogant in your understanding. Yet no one can destroy the life that is the spirit, who amongst man has the power to destroy that which is indestructible?
You hypocrites, whoever has eaten the cow has also eaten the grass the cow is made of, and whoever has eaten the grass has also eaten the cow the grass is made of.
When you die will you deny the world the food of your body also?
Do you not understand that the life of the body cannot be destroyed nor wasted? That life itself cannot be killed but is merely passed on from one being to another?
Cease your arrogance and frivolous pity, for these belong to the hypocrites and not to the righteous.
@@larocdokarnap3227 i make no comments on any individuals diet. I only point out that their prqctice of vegetarianism would have been seen within their cultural background as a normative practice for Jews who believed the messiah had come. It is even today a common belief among orthodox Jews that when the messiah comes we (Jews) will be vegetarian (technically pescatarian as Jewish religious law does not consider fish meat).
@@OhavYisrail
God has given to man from every seed bearing plant and tree to everything that lives and moves about, for them to eat as food. Sometimes God requires a sacrifice of your crops and herds, he does not prefer one or the other cause God requires both, and so should you. The prophet declared all foods clean, he says not to worry about what you will eat, because God will provide what you need if you are willing to accept it. So if there is grain nearby he will lead you to it, and if there is meat nearby it will come to you.
God does not offer bad gifts, you should never vow to yourself to not eat or kill anything at all, but be ready to accept it. It is exceptional luxury to eat or not eat according your desire or tradition. So if you are out in the field God offers you grain, if you are out in the wilderness God offers you meat, if you are out on the sea God offers you fish. The fish is not above the grain, nor is the meat above the fish, nor the grain above the meat, all of these are there to benefit you and you should despise none of them.
Let rituals be understood for what they are, and the law be understood for what it serves to accomplish.
@@larocdokarnap3227 again my comment was not about any individual dietary choice, nor indicative of my own. It was about the cultural background of second temple judaism as it relates to the subject matter of the video. Please save your personal views of vegetarianism for someone who cares.
Very interesting video ! Thank you
Thank you for presenting this interesting topic.
This is an interesting bit of History, I'm sure you are familiar with the book of Sirach. I was reading through it a couple weeks ago and noticed something rather interesting, the exact layout and wording of that book is almost identical to the middle length discourses of the Buddha. Now I know Yeshua Ben Siroc is not remembered as Jesus but some people do believe that this man was Christ and that the two figures were one in the same. I have no idea simply because I haven't read that much into it but if that is Jesus then this video ties together the Buddha and Christ that much more. I know there's discrepancies with the dates however as imperfect beings that we are we have a tendency to get small things wrong, it's just food for thought and I think it's highly fascinating because what if actually those two figures are one in the same?
Interesting, but you'd have to provide some evidence. The Book of Sirach talks about God. The Lord constantly. Pretty sure Buddha doesn't.
@@elsoil3387 well you can start with the book in the Buddha's words and obviously the book of sirach, not bringing God into this the wording of everything and its meaning are the same between a lot of passages and in the same order
When I hear something like this, my first thought is typically to inquire into the dating of the texts. Unfortunately, such efforts seem to have been applied much less thoroughly to texts outside the western tradition, but such work as has been done indicates that the dates of composition of all of the Buddhist canon is very uncertain. For example, I found this with google: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P%C4%81li_Canon
Scholars generally agree that the early books include some later additions.[52] Aspects of these late additions are or may be from a much earlier period.[53][54][55] Other aspects of the Pali Canon, such as the information about society and South Asian history, are in doubt because the Pali Canon was extensively redacted in the 5th- or 6th-century CE, nearly a thousand years after the death of the Buddha.[10] Further, this redacted Pali Canon of Sri Lanka itself mentions that the compilation had previously been redacted towards the end of 1st-century BCE. According to the Early Buddhism scholar Lars Fogelin, the Pali Canon of Sri Lanka is a modified Canon and "there is no good reason to assume that Sri Lankan Buddhism resembles Early Buddhism in the mainland, and there are numerous reasons to argue that it does not."
AND: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Majjhima_Nik%C4%81ya
The Majjhima Nikāya (-nikāya; "Collection of Middle-length Discourses") is a Buddhist scripture....Composed between 3rd century BCE and 2nd century CE.
Ecclesiasticus was written by ben Sirach circa 180 BC. Thus any influence (and I have not read the Buddhist canon so I am in no position to weigh in on the evidence for or against borrowings) could have gone in either direction, but there appears to have been more time for it to flow from Hellenized Judaism to the Indian subcontinent than vice versa.
@@michaels4255 I believe it's the diamond sutra which is not theravada Buddhism but mahayana which is a huge difference but going through that sutra you will find similarities with the book of sirach.
Nice presentation! Glad to see it. Yes, the Ebionites, original followers of Jesus, were indeed vegetarians. And there's also a surprising number of references in antiquity to the vegetarianism of John the Baptist, the spiritual teacher of Jesus. For Ebionite gospels, Gospel of the Hebrews, etc... there are a few quotes that have been preserved, but the largest surviving collection of writings relating to the Ebionites is the Clementine literature: The Clementine Homilies and Clementine Recognitions, a kind of neo-Ebionite or alternative Book of Acts. Perhaps groups like the Essenes, Therapeutae, and Nasoraeans were influenced by the Pythagoreans, known for vegetarianism and opposed to ritual animal sacrifice in connection with various temples. There's an author by the name of Keith Akers that has explored this topic in depth in a scholarly sort of way in his various books and lectures, including about Ebionite ideas preserved in certain Islamic writings.
no
When he was in the desert wandering, he ate hines and....grasshoppers...not a vegetarian.
@@kavikv.d.hexenholtz3474 Dr. James D. Tabor is Professor of Christian Origins and Ancient Judaism in the Department of Religious Studies at the University of North Carolina at Charlotte. He writes:
"The most commonly held view of John’s diet, based on our text in Mark, is that he ate locusts, a migratory form of the grasshopper....., still commonly consumed by desert peoples in Arabia. Others have suggested the word translated “locusts” refers to the beans of the carob tree, commonly called “St. John’s bread.” However, the Greek word translated as “locusts" in the New Testament seems to clearly refer to a species of grasshopper. The problem is such eating of “flesh,” even if that of an insect, seems to contradict the sources that emphasize John the Baptist's ascetic vegetarian ideal. Paul, for example, refers to members of the Jesus movement who abstain from eating meat and drinking wine (Roman 14:1-4). We also have traditions that James, the brother of Jesus, practiced a strictly vegetarian lifestyle, which was also common among the Jewish Christian community that became known as the “Ebionites”. Somehow “locusts” seem out of place.
"A possible solution to this confusion about John’s desert-diet is found in the fragments we have of the lost “Gospel of the Ebionites,” as quoted by the 4th-century Christian writer Epiphanius (Panarion 30.13.4-5), who hated the group but fortunately, nonetheless, can’t resist quoting them --- thus preserving some precious material. The Greek word for locusts is very similar to the Greek word for “honey cake” that is used for the “manna” that the Israelites ate in the desert in the days of Moses. According to this ancient text, it was not locusts but these cakes cooked in olive oil. If this is the case then John would have eaten a cake of some type, made from a desert plant, similar to the “manna” that the ancient Israelites ate in the desert in the days of Moses. This “bread from heaven” and the taste of it was like wafers made with honey” (Exodus 16:31; Numbers 11:8). This kind of “pancake” baked in oil, and sweetened with honey, would then reflect and emulate the ideal holiness of the desert wanderings of Israel when the people had to look to God alone for “daily bread.”" -- Dr. James D. Tabor: Did John the Baptist Eat Bugs, Beans, or Pancakes?
@@SpiritualAwakeningRadio 🤣😆😆
@@kavikv.d.hexenholtz3474 that was considered vegetarian back then
Great educational video!
i learn a lot from you, thanks a million :)
I have been fascinated by James the Just and the Torah observant followers of Jesus since trading of James as a 16 yr old schoolboy.
A quote from a book I once read goes something like “ what are we to make of the passing parade of Nazarites, Rechabites Zealots and Zadokites who inhabit the background if the Gospel story?”
There is much more to the story of the Ebyonim such as what the Pseudo Clemintines might tell us. Imagine how marvellous it would be if a cache is Ebyonite documents were to be discovered, ( sigh ). .. if only!
What did you receive in trade for a 16 year old schoolboy?
Steven it should have read since learning of James the Just as a 16 year old.
By the time i posted it spellcheck had changed it. Glad you picked it up though as it shows that someone is reading my posts ha!!
We already have sufficient documents to live on.
Just to inform you nazarenes not nazarites and if you want to learn more about us we can have a conversation.
Very interesting as usual Filip, and it kinds of confirm my view that Paul was the "inventor" of Christianity as we know it, while he, Jesus, came as a prophet in the line of the previous prophets, and never meant to create his own religion and name it after himself.
Which of your vids, do you think gives the best description of what Mysticism is?
Also which for Rationalism too.
I'm going to ask JUstin & Zavi too
I think I am on the edge of a small revelation :D
I like the evolution of your beard. Also, great video.
The Ebionites may have been closest to original Christianity
Yes.
No, there beliefs are divergent from Jewish Christianity such as denying the divinity of Christ and believing him to be a created being.
Filip, I LOVE your channel, and this is a great video. One caveat: most contemporary Paul scholars agree that Paul does not free Jewish followers of Jesus from Torah, but only insists on gentile inclusion apart from rites of conversion/Torah observance. This view-the “Paul Within Judaism Schule”-is rightly displacing the “New Perspective.”
I agree, his information on this point is somewhat outdated.
Hey, Perennial Digression! I'm a subscriber of both your and Filip's work so very cool to see you here. I used to do a lot of reading in Wright's "New Perspective," his Paul trilogy, etc. What's the definitive work from the "Paul Within Judaism" School? Thanks!
@@joelcerimele3217 A good representative is Paula Fredriksen, Paul: The Pagans’ Apostle.
Paul is definitely not a friend of the Jewish christians, James the Just and Peter. Even if Paul was more pro Torah then was suggested, Paul failed in that and because of his letters, gentile christianity emerged and took over the original jewish teaching of Jesus. I believe 95% of all that is because of Paul, wether he meant it or not
@@jasonstewart7834 His letters are addressed to his apostolate: gentiles. He should not be conflated with his later readers who assumed his intentions were antisemitic.
Killer vid, as always.
Definitely a great video, and very informative. 👍👍😎🤟🤟♒️
Hi Filip!
Would you ever consider doing a video on the Sabbateans or the Jewish Messiah Sabbatai Zevi and his descendants?
It's quite a controversial topic and all that I can find are from extremely biased sources
There's a video on the UA-cam channel Religion for Breakfast about him. Also, Filip does mention Sabbatai Zevi in his video on Hasidism.
1- We Muslims believe that Jesus, peace be upon him, is one of the greatest prophets of God, may blessings and peace be upon them all, and we believe that he is the Messiah
And he will return at the end of time, and that will be a major sign of the Hour, as it is his mission to fight the Antichrist and to demonstrate the sincerity of the religion of Islam.
2- We also believe that he was born without a father, as his mother, Mary, peace be upon her, was a virgin (contrary to the belief of the Ebionites).
And he was ordering the Children of Israel to follow the Torah and to fear God, and also to make lawful for them some of what was forbidden to them in the Torah as a punishment for their disobedience, for example the fat of clean animals and some other things
(The one who allows and the one who forbids here is God Almighty, an Islamic example of that. The direction of Muslims’ prayer was Jerusalem, then God made it towards Mecca)
3- The thing that distinguishes Islam in believing in the Gospel is that it is the Book of God that He revealed to His servant Jesus, peace be upon him. As for the many Gospels that exist today, whether they are the known four or others, they contain part of the truth and cannot be fully trusted because their true authors are not known. The names were attributed later.
@Aurora Summer 1-Of course, my brother, faith, as you know, increases and decreases, as it is not stable, and this is the natural thing that is innate in the son of Adam
Perhaps one of the reasons for losing faith are sins, failure to maintain prayer on time, bad company that wastes time, and staying away from the faith environment with which you are enthusiastic about doing good deeds.
There is no human being who is free of sins or whose faith does not diminish. The struggle must be throughout life, and you are keen that your determination is not extinguished.
2- One of the best things to help you regain your faith and make it stronger than before is to contemplate the Noble Qur’an calmly, in which there is healing and mercy for the believers.
You should also feel the greatness of God Almighty and His names and attributes
Like He is the Holy, the Merciful, the Wise, and the Lord of all creation
And you should feel that he is always watching you and always with you wherever you are. Raise your hands to the sky and prostrate and pray and weep before him and ask him to be firm on his religion.
And be sure to choose good companionship that helps you in doing good deeds so that you will receive reward from God Almighty
3- These were some tips from your brother, who also needs the mercy and stability of God. We all face problems in life, and the only one who will make us overcome difficulties is God Almighty. ❤️
@Aurora Summer
What's the reason if you don't mind me asking? I'm muslim bye the way .
@@dani4157 Do you want to discuss religion with me and clarify the facts with their evidence? I accept the discussion with open arms and let us make the satisfaction of God Almighty upon us our goal. What do you say?
@@dani4157
Ha.
Bible reliable.
I pissed myself laughing.
The four gospels were written in the same century as Christ's birth, life and crucifixion while the Quran is a work from centuries later. It's pretty obvious that the gospels are the more reliable source.
New subscriber here. This is just my second video of yours; really good stuff! By the way, if you change the "Disciples" category to "Students," they can all start with "S"-and of course disciples MEANS students, so....
Wow, that was interesting,
cool video😌❤️
Great episode. Very interesting topic, and intriguing possibilities around connections between Ebionites in the Arabian peninsula and future threads of religious thought. Not surprising given that there were Jewish communities in Arabia before the rise of Islam, and there had been trade going on between the peninsula and the Levant along different routes.
It's hard to know if those Jews were from the original tribes or Arab converts. If you look at their pictures on line they look like converts with a few Jewish faces . That was probaly what happened.
@@winstonshipman8734 Did people of the Jewish faith in the Middle East look much different from their Arab neighbors, native Egyptians, other non-Hellenistic peoples of the Middle East back in the 4th, 5th and 6th centuries? So not talking Ashkenazi Jews, but those who lived in across the Middle East prior to the rise of that category of Sephardic Jews (narrowly are defined as members of Iberian Jewish communities that got expelled in the 15th century, and migrated across the Mediterranean).
This is pure speculation my Christian brothers , but the story the non-believing Jews told about Jesus was that he was the illegitimate son of a Roman soldier . I do not say this as an insult because "endless Christians " might be very happy to have him half European instead of fully Jewish . Perhaps this story is why Constantine was so quick to accept him as Messiah.
This would also explain his European appearance in the famous paintings.
@@winstonshipman8734 There is not much in the way of physical description of Jesus (or Yeshua, his Jewish name). As for representations in famous paintings, believe those were done by Europeans long after his death, like centuries. Not sure that those works were very representative of what everyone who belonged to the various Jewish communities in the Middle East looked like.
The question then is, what art is there of clearly Jewish people in Egypt, Palestine, Syria, Mesopotamia, Arabia from the first, second, third, fourth centuries, etc.? Is there the equivalent of painted portraits of Fayum found on coffins?
As for the Jesus dad story, that seems to be something that Origen referred to, when noting the criticisms of Celsus, in the second century AD. Celsus was a Greek philosopher who wrote attacks on Christianity. Origen was from a Hellenized Alexandrian family, a city that was noted for early Jewish pogroms, born at the end of the second century. The Panthera legionary story may have come from Jewish sects angered at the claims of the various Christian sects, but those broadcasting it over a hundred and fifty years later were Greeks, or quite Hellenized persons, who were rhetoricians putting forth arguments.
the Isrealites were from the Levent and they look just like modern Syrians and Palestinians and not much diffrent from the Arabs of the peninsula " just little bite lighter " @@winstonshipman8734
Can you make a video about the Native religions of the Caucasus? I heard it is a bit more in Abxazia and the non native religions in Caucasus were effcted by them. They get almost no attention
Vad roligt att det finns en svensk youtuber som fokuserar på religionskunnskap. Jag har länge läst dr.Bart Ehrman och upskattat hans böcker. Fortsätt med ditt grymma arbete!
Uppenbarelseboken 14:12 12 Här är de heligas tålamod: här är de som håller Guds bud och Jesu tro.
@@giovanni545 god dag man, yxskaft
Thank you for this video.
As a Unitarian I've wondered if this group could be considered to be one of my faith's "ancestors" although we don't have many Jewish (or traditional Christian) features nowadays.
11:06 that reminded me of Thomas Jefferson's Bible even though he went further and took out all the supernatural aspects of the Gospel stories.
You are correct they were in many ways the father of the faith . But what happened was the Church so hated them they branded them as heretics and crushed them. I am Jewish so they are of great interest to me. But I don't want to give you a wrong impression . Their theology was not always correct. The book of Isaiah has a "Unitarian flair " to it (and the Jewish Messiah was taken mainly from Isaiah). Isaiah clearly said the Messiah would be "for the world" and they said Jesus was only for the Jews.
Be careful of that though it does seem to make logical sense. Many only believed in the miracles , both Jew and Gentile . Why would you exclude those wonderful people. In the Torah it says , if you recite a Hebrew prayer and do not know what the Hebrew means (very common among Jews) the prayer goes still goes to heaven.
@@winstonshipman8734"only for the Jews" means they believed that gentiles had to convert and become Jewish.
What's a Unitarian? Is it a Christian sect? What's your belief?
Well .. Unitarianism is fairly modern .... But I guess I can see the conceptual connection you're making.
Another fascinating episode. Thanks from an unrepentant atheist in Vienna, Scott
Very interesting!! Thank you!!
very interesting speech. i learned lots from it. May God Almighty guide you and bless you
There is an essential mistake in this, which is identifying James and Peter with the “Judaizers” as opponents of Paul. Acts 15 completely contradicts such an idea.
Yep. Peter and James agreed with Paul that Gentiles don't need to keep Jewish Law. This guy also pretends that James had higher authority than Paul which wasn't the case. In fact James was late to the party since he didn't believe in Jesus when he was alive.
@@gianlucarossi5672: He believed in him after he was alive again. So says I Cor. 15: “Afterward he appeared to James and all the Apostles.”
Loved this!
Wonder if the prophet Muhammad first wife “Khadeja” has anything to do with the ebonites mindset. I recall something about her initially being Christian before accepting islam
khadeja(r.a) belong to a arabian monotheistic sect called 'hanif',these people didn't associate their religion with jews or christians,they believed that this was the religion of their father(ishmeal) and didn't sacrifice animals to idols.They just believed in the god of abraham.
@@athifmuhammed8817
That’s interesting, is there any known historical documents or known historical locations where “ hanifs “ used to reside?
Muhammad's wife khadija was following the religion of pre islamic quraish
There is a recorded authentic hadith in musnad ahmed that muhammad says to her he will never worship allat or uzza this imply she worshiped the arabian gods before Muhammad's first revelation
Her cousin maybe was an ebionite
Aisha, the wife of Muhammad said that waraqa was writing the gospel in hebrew the mainstream christinity write the gospels in greek or latin but the ebionite wrote in hebrew maybe this is why waraka was interested in muhammad's encounter in cave hira
@@pokerthejoker2164 No, there isn't, but then again historical records of pre-Islamic Arabia are nearly impossible to get a hold of.
Filip, you may have covered the topic of Plotinus already. If so, please reply with a link to it. If not, please consider doing so in a future video. Plotinus is fascinating in that he had an enormous influence on Christian orthodoxy even though he himself was not a Christian. His understanding of what he calls The One is very much like the God of Meister Ekhart, Ibn Arabi, and Paul Tillich.
Ironically enough, Plotinus and the Neoplatonists dislikes The Christian Gnostics but for inverse reason to 'Church Fathers' reasoning, for Plotinus found The Christian Gnostics for being too Abrahamic (or Biblical), all while 'Church Fathers' dislikes them to the point of calling Plato being "more religious" than them, all while Neoplatonists and Christians are also fighting each other over whose more pure and honest either
I guess The Sethians got the last laugh as The Sethites eventually got indirectly succeeded by The Ishmaelites (Muslim) to garner the vast majority demographics of formerly Eastern Christian population in MENA to this day
@@ohamatchhams From what I understand, Plotinus disliked the Gnostics because they viewed the material world and the god who created it as evil. He viewed everything, whether material or immaterial as emanating from The One and, therefore, essentially good.
i've been playing ck3 recently and there are some pretty odd religions so i wandered if you could do some videos on those
If James; brother of Jesus was Jewish and obeyed the Jewish law and had a Church of Jewish followers; who followed their own gospel according to very Jewish customs, why would it be written in Greek or Aramaic. Would these lost gospels been written in Hebrew, for a Jewish audience living in Jerusalem?
Thoughts?
By the 1st century Hebrew (meaning Paleo-Hebrew; the language of the Jews of the OT) was an archaic language that wasn't commonly spoken anymore.
Hebrew started to die out as a spoken language around 600 years before Jesus at the time of the invasion by the Babylonians. This was replaced by Aramaic, and by the time of Jesus, Jews in Jerusalem and the Holy Land would have been speaking either Aramaic or Greek as their first language. Hebrew would have been a language that only Rabbis and those who studied the Torah would have been taught and understood. It would probably have been to Jesus and his followers much like Old English or Latin is to the average English speaking person today.
The original gospels were almost certainly written in Greek, although some scholars believe they may have been written in Aramaic first and then translated into Greek. But either way, these are the languages that the average 1st century Jew would have understood and used on a daily basis.
According to Papias the gospel of Matthew was written in Hebrew.
I think .Ebionites were genuine followers of Jesus' teaching.
No they were not, they were heretics. The majority of early Jewish Christians did not subscribe to the beliefs of the Ebonite’s.
Where do you find sources😀. supercool as always
very good topic well presented you are the master
Why is the story and the traditions of the Ebionites reminding me of the traditions and life styles of my people in east Africa, i.e., Tigraians? Tigraians are of Semitic origin but they are Orthodox religion followers. However, their traditions are almost entirely Jewish and they have many elements of the Ebionites mentioned in the video. May be some Ebionites made it to that part of the world at some point of time.
I am often surprised by how little one knows of early Christianity, the ebionites I heard of lately, they were derided by early church fathers like Eusebius as the poor ones and heretics though they claim continuity with James brother of Jesus.
The gradual realization is borne out that much of early Christianity seem different from current dogma.
The Bible says that there were heretics with the Antichrist spirit from the very beginning, and that they broke away from true Christianity. The orthodox forms of Christianity are true, because if they weren't, they would have vanished from history. Instead, they have become the largest identifiable faith on Earth. Meanwhile, Ebionites and all these other heresies disappeared very early.
@@sechrima9998 your presumption then is that the more "Orthodox" or large the following a group is the more "truthful" they are bound to be.
A large number of people may display preferences for pop songs than classical ones yet it does not imply the former is the most true form of music.
What is dominant/Orthodox can be a function of power and the interpretations of that power. Imperial Rome was the most powerful state at the time, once it adopted Pauline Christianity as the official state religion of Rome and empire it set about harmonizing Christianity as a common faith by persecuting all those who hold plural views of religion including their texts which were now branded heresies with consequences for those who bore them, the might and power of roman imperial reach meant it succeeded to a large extent.
Consequently what we now call the bible codified largely by church leaders aligned to Rome and roman values became the only sanctioned narrative of Christianity, thus all the rich diversity of Christianity such as those relating to James the just, brother and successor of Jesus who knew him better than all was left out and those apologetic to Rome brought in.
Even more poignant is the fact that Jesus a Jewish man who practiced the Jewish faith, and upheld Jewish law lived in an environment of political fervour with most Jews opposed to Rome and hankering after messianic tendencies for both a political figure a davidic descendant and a spiritual messiah possibly of levite heritage to free them from what they perceived as a pagan power constantly imposing demands upon them. Jesus like his brethrens were in opposition to Rome, Jews do not kill by crucifixion, and why would they celebrate the killing of their fellow country men when most of them shared the hopes of messianic redemption ?
As such Rome once it adopted Christianity would not countenance the idea of a Jewish upstart who challenged Rome, hence the Pauline strain of Christianity which allowed for accomodation with Rome and watered down Jewish law was accepted. Alas with money and power an entity such as Rome can decide what is truth, or best standard and what is not and this became received literature constantly reproduced over time.
The ebionites like many early christians before Rome were Jewish sect, they did not differ much with the Jewish faith save the claim of Jesus as prophet and messiah which they upheld, some may have folded back in to Judaism but some of the teachings of these early christians and immediate successors to Jesus wound it's way in to Islam so their teachings in some form is still extant.
@@Adad-ki5dh James may have known Jesus the man best, but he was neither the best disciple nor the leader of the disciples according to Jesus in the Gospels. Those distinctions belonged to John and Peter, both of whom were apostles to the Romans. If James attempted to use his familial ties to Christ to impose himself as the leader of the disciples after Christ’s ascension to Heaven, then he did so against the express wishes of the Lord as confirmed by the Holy Spirit.
If God had wanted to save the world by means taught by the Ebionites, then he would have preserved the Ebionites. Instead, he gave the historic victory to the orthodox traditions. The greatest disciples were sent to the Romans, to carry out the Great Commission of converting the pagan gentiles. That James lingered among the Jews and attempted to gain some spurious inherited authority even suggests that he was less obedient to Christ’s commands than the others.
If Islam indeed has roots in Ebionite traditions, then it only confirms that the Bible’s warnings of the Antichrist are true, and we should look to Islam for his coming.
@@sechrima9998 James did not linger among the Jews he is a Jew as was Jesus, it is preposterous to think that Jesus (yeshua) was an apostate to the Jewish faith.
Even Paul and Peter talked about the church in Jerusalem under James the brother of the lord, Paul even recognized their authority he referenced at one instance of carrying donations to the church in Jerusalem, not to mention the illustrious incident in which delegations from the Jerusalem church berated him for his revisionist teachings of Jesus Christ to the gentiles whom he admonished not to partake in Jewish laws.
The bible is a collection of narratives cherry picked from amongst many come to think of it how do these Jewish apostle nutured in Jewish law of works and faith come to celebrate partaking symbolically in drinking blood, eating flesh, trinitarian concepts and other things that would have stirred utter repulsion .
@@Adad-ki5dh Of course God can’t be an apostate. Jesus was the fulfilment of Jewish faith.
Jesus’ final command to his disciples was to preach to all the nations. If James stayed home, then he was neglecting his responsibilities. That’s not to say he wasn’t Christian, just that he was imperfect. He took authority upon himself that the Lord never assigned to him. Paul obviously went along with James to maintain unity (a matter of great importance to Paul), not necessarily because he agreed with James. There was no need to create a schism in the Church over those matters at that time.
The fact that you don’t understand the Eucharist tells me all I need to know about you. Perhaps your name is not written in the Book of Life, as you seem spiritually blind. You need to read John 6 carefully. I pray the Father will give you to the Son.
Great video… thank you!
A beautiful, beautiful video, Filip! Yes, it is a terrible pity that not much of the early Jewish Christians survives - we don't have a library of recently discovered literature, like we do with the Gnostics. And of course, you have to distinguish these early Jewish Christians, who were truly Jewish, from the modern "Jews for Jesus" movement - folks who are evangelical Christian wolves in Jewish sheep's clothing.