Who were the Cathars?

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  • Опубліковано 13 тра 2024
  • In this video we discuss the famous medieval "heretics" known as the Cathars, and the Albigensian crusade which tried to wipe them out.
    Don't forget to check out Justin's channel Esoterica: / esotericachannel
    Sources/Suggested Reading:
    Barber, Malcolm, The Cathars: Dualist heretics in Languedoc in the High Middle Ages, Second edition (Harlow, United Kingdom: Pearson, 2013).
    Sennis, Antonio (ed.), Cathars in Question (York: York Medieval Press, 2016).
    Moore, R. I., The War on Heresy (Cambridge, Mass.: Belknap Press of Harvard University Press, 2012).

КОМЕНТАРІ • 1,5 тис.

  • @arsec42
    @arsec42 2 роки тому +472

    Fun etymological sidenote: the modern dutch word for heretic "ketter" is directly related to "cathar"

    • @InTouchWithBertJ
      @InTouchWithBertJ 2 роки тому +15

      Was about to comment the same! :')

    • @ethanweisgard6570
      @ethanweisgard6570 2 роки тому +43

      Same in Danish: “kætter”

    • @canonjean-mignon4985
      @canonjean-mignon4985 2 роки тому +13

      It’s not related, it’s the same word.

    • @LetsTalkReligion
      @LetsTalkReligion  2 роки тому +49

      Did not know this! Thanks!

    • @1210CM
      @1210CM 2 роки тому +20

      This etymological origin of "cathar" is disputed, and in my mind makes no sense at all. Why would anyone refer to heretics as "the pure" (Cathari/Katharóí)? It is more likely that the Dutch word "ketter" derives from the Middle High German "Ketzer", which means heretic, and in turn probably derives from the German word "Katze" (cat), attributing to the heretics some of the mischievous characteristics of a cat.

  • @guybrushthreepwood9071
    @guybrushthreepwood9071 3 місяці тому +56

    In my language the word for 'Cathar' became the word for 'heretic' as a whole. We also have the somewhat cruel saying that 'someone smokes like a cathar' if he/she is a chain-smoker.

    • @edim108
      @edim108 2 місяці тому

      Dutch?

  • @iRedEarth
    @iRedEarth 2 роки тому +54

    "The cathars as we understand them may never have existed" - Ad break
    One of the few times I've seen an ad break come at a proper cliffhanger, and not clumsily cut in mid sentence, or even mid word. Drama!

  • @deyuo3434
    @deyuo3434 2 роки тому +158

    YESS!! Finally there will be a video on Cathars from one of the big religious study channels! I know there is many little pieces of information scattered around but I look forward to hearing it described from someone who has a very good way of expressing information, maybe I will learn something new!

    • @tobiaslarsen1014
      @tobiaslarsen1014 2 роки тому +8

      Iv'e also been waiting for a video about the Cathars for a long time! I'm looking forward to hear what he has to say about the movement. I find it extraordinarily interesting.

    • @thomasmacginnes100
      @thomasmacginnes100 2 роки тому +3

      mebe !

    • @joshportie
      @joshportie 3 місяці тому +1

      Not really religious studies so much as catholic propaganda.

    • @jacquelineleitch7050
      @jacquelineleitch7050 3 місяці тому +1

      Amazing history and the twist at the end!

  • @BoredBookAddict
    @BoredBookAddict 2 роки тому +498

    You know when you mentioned how diverse the Medieval age was. It would be interesting to see the ways the different Religious orders of the Church practice their faith. Like what makes the spirituality of a Franciscan different from a Dominican. I think it would be an interesting topic.
    Edit: Beware of viewing the replies. There is a certain "pastor". As what he calls himself. Making Biblical statements and refusing to listen to other faiths. I just wanted to say, that this guy, below, does not represent the entire faith of Christianity. And it saddens me, as a Christian, that there are people who are like this.

    • @DJNO4444
      @DJNO4444 2 роки тому +31

      Usually the Franciscans see service to others as a major main way of devotion, while Dominicans see the attainment of knowledge as a main way of devotion

    • @skaetur1
      @skaetur1 2 роки тому +15

      Spoiler: The differences are arbitrary.

    • @bojanstare8667
      @bojanstare8667 2 роки тому +5

      It is big different between both of them and Chatars. Chatars didn`t whorship christianity. They have followed Zoroaster dualism, the same as Bogomils in Balkan. Even Bogomils from Balkan have teached Chatars.

    • @DJNO4444
      @DJNO4444 2 роки тому +10

      @@bojanstare8667 no one was talking about Cathars mate

    • @bojanstare8667
      @bojanstare8667 2 роки тому +4

      @@DJNO4444 Sorry, some problems with computer. Should be some lines bellow. By the way, video was about Cathars. :-)

  • @damouno
    @damouno 2 роки тому +452

    Its amazing. Western history focus primarily on crusades vs. Arab Muslims with a nod to sacking of Constantinople. The Crusade against the Cathars..is never ever Mentioned. Like it never happened..slate was wiped clean. Very Brutal !

    • @marcmarco5373
      @marcmarco5373 2 роки тому +79

      May be for English language countries, but I guarantee that this Crusade against the Cathars is a well- known topics in France. Dozens of books, movies , TV series, etc. It's a well trodden subject believe me ;-)

    • @damouno
      @damouno 2 роки тому +7

      @@marcmarco5373 i am very glad then, friend. At least France is keeping the memory alive. Truly this was a most Brutal extermination campaign, conparable with Nazis genocide pogroms of mid-20th century.

    • @marcmarco5373
      @marcmarco5373 2 роки тому +15

      @@damouno Well compared to a lot of things that happened in the course of history, the Albigesan crusade was quite a minor episode. We tend to look at history with own set of values, but those were not the values of the people who lived in other times. Most Christians at the time would have seen nothing wrong with the extermination of heretics, just as the mongols (to take an example in another time and place) would have seen nothing wrong with the tactics of terror used by Gengis Khan..

    • @jeremiahduran7238
      @jeremiahduran7238 2 роки тому +46

      @@marcmarco5373 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, the Catholic Church has bared a lot of bad fruit.

    • @marcmarco5373
      @marcmarco5373 2 роки тому +32

      @@jeremiahduran7238 At the time; the Church was the Christian Church. Period. In that context, Catholic/Protestant is an anachronism.. And BTW, last time I checked, the Protestant Churches were no slouches at oppressing and mass killing heretics when they saw the need....

  • @RhapsodyOfJoy
    @RhapsodyOfJoy Рік тому +4

    Thank you so much for this wonderful presentation! Yours and Dr. Sledge's channels are some true gems! Subscribed to both!

  • @jbaquinones
    @jbaquinones 2 роки тому +18

    This is such an amazing episode. Thank you.

  • @naillijseer
    @naillijseer 2 роки тому +18

    I just drove through part of France near Carcassonne which had notices about Cathars everywhere and I had no idea what was going on so thanks for this.

  • @JoePesciVSBillyBatts
    @JoePesciVSBillyBatts 2 роки тому +37

    Growing up in Beziers, this video hit home ! Cathars really are one of the biggest misteries in history. Glad you've covered this topic too !

    • @peterfoster8004
      @peterfoster8004 2 роки тому

      Folk singer, Wizz Jones sings 'The Massacre of Beziers' and perfectly encapsulates the story. ua-cam.com/video/4_Ss4p6PkcA/v-deo.html

    • @adamferencszi797
      @adamferencszi797 2 роки тому +1

      Do you still live in beziers ? Is it easy to get around Languedoc by train or bus to visit Cathar sites ?

    • @JoePesciVSBillyBatts
      @JoePesciVSBillyBatts 2 роки тому

      @@adamferencszi797 I don't, and I don't think it is well connected as a lot of sites are pretty remote. Car rental probably is the most viable option

    • @francescgarciachillida
      @francescgarciachillida Рік тому +1

      Cathars are in Catalonia. The first time the territory is referred to as Catalonia (Cathalunia originally in latin) is right when the Catars were expelled from southern france. So where would they go? Exactly, right accross the pyrenees where they could take refuge and start a new society in the reconquered muslim land. The Count of catalonia also cointidentially converted to catholicism after the conflict, reaching an agreement with the pope to stop the crusade and let the cathars live as catholic converts in catalonia. The south of france was mostly repopulated with northern franks, even tho some cathars managed to survive and stay but they were few and the biggest amount od them were in catalonia.

    • @makingthematrix
      @makingthematrix 4 місяці тому

      @@adamferencszi797 : Hello, fellow commenter from the past. I came here just to say that I've been to Beziers and many other places in southerm France recently. Trains are a bit expensive but they are a perfect way to travel, and the whole region is just beautiful. To the east, you can go to Nimes and Avignon, to the west you can visit Narbonne, Carcasonne, and Toulouse, and in Toulouse change trains to go to Albi and Rodez. Castres is a bit off-track but it's worth to see as well. And if you have a bit of time, you can go through Narbonne to Perpignan and to Spain, to Barcelona.

  • @giomar89
    @giomar89 2 роки тому +4

    I was waiting for this video so much, thanks a lot!

  • @saint-naive
    @saint-naive 2 роки тому +18

    One of my favorite medieval European topics, thanks for covering it so wonderfully! Always looking forward to your productions.

  • @magicknight13
    @magicknight13 Рік тому +4

    I had never known about this, thank you so much for shining a light on history!

  • @kafros13
    @kafros13 2 роки тому +3

    Great video! Watching Esoterica's one right now. Must admit, I first heard of the Cathars by playing Broken Sword 5, so it is great to hear the actual story!

  • @LetsTalkReligion
    @LetsTalkReligion  2 роки тому +1

    Support Let's Talk Religion on Patreon: www.patreon.com/letstalkreligion
    Or through a one-time donation: www.paypal.com/paypalme/letstalkreligion
    ESOTERICA'S video: ua-cam.com/video/8h9pMC2au94/v-deo.html

  • @pnkcnlng228
    @pnkcnlng228 2 роки тому +170

    I always wanted to know more about the Cathars as my little village in Lombardy was probably inhabited by Cathars and maybe named after them (but it is actually a celtic village)

    • @andreebesseau6995
      @andreebesseau6995 2 роки тому +19

      The cathars were only living in certain part of France(languedoc).they were anihilated by Simon de montfort an anglo/french lord in what's called the albigecian crusade.very sad......very similar to what they did to the jewish population in Spain...

    • @pnkcnlng228
      @pnkcnlng228 2 роки тому +3

      @@andreebesseau6995 Yeah

    • @konyvnyelv.
      @konyvnyelv. 2 роки тому +3

      @@pnkcnlng228 come si chiama il paese?

    • @mikeoxsmal8022
      @mikeoxsmal8022 2 роки тому +1

      Cathar is irish for city /stone Fort so a similar word could have named the village so I could be a false equivalent or maybe it was named after them

    • @pnkcnlng228
      @pnkcnlng228 2 роки тому

      @@mikeoxsmal8022 The best hypotesis is that it was called after the contraction of "Ca dul Drach" that in Lombard means the house of the dragon

  • @jonsey3645
    @jonsey3645 2 роки тому +38

    Thank you for an excellent channel. I am learning so much from you and others like Dr. Justin Sledge over on Esoterica. How fortunate we are to live in a time where this level of esteemed educators are giving this caliber of information away virtually free. Again thank you for your tireless efforts.

  • @joseiglesias4729
    @joseiglesias4729 2 роки тому +87

    As always an excelent work Filip. Since you mentioned the bogomils, it would be great some videos about the various heterodox and sectarian groups in eastern orthodoxy, specially Russia. Greetings from Argentina

    • @thatisme3thatisme38
      @thatisme3thatisme38 2 роки тому +3

      there was no documented sectarianism in Russia.

    • @kylejacobson9587
      @kylejacobson9587 4 місяці тому +1

      ​@@thatisme3thatisme38 Lol, you serious?

    • @stariyczedun
      @stariyczedun 4 місяці тому

      @@thatisme3thatisme38 just from the top of my mind - 15th century "ересь жидовствующих", 17th century and still running - old believers, 18th century+ - духоборы, молокане, субботники, хлысты, скопцы (sect which was really into genital mutilation)

  • @Liphted
    @Liphted 2 роки тому +2

    Great video! I can't wait too see the one on Esoterica!

  • @kenclarkeis
    @kenclarkeis 2 роки тому +74

    Now that was a plot twist worth waiting for. Great video. Loving the collaborations. Learning so much from your videos. It’s fundamentally changing my view of religion and of the world. Great work.

  • @imlaughinq7445
    @imlaughinq7445 Рік тому +5

    Subscribed to both you and Esoterica, great channels the both of you!

  • @pointzerotwo
    @pointzerotwo 10 місяців тому +7

    Great talk. They never taught any of this when I attended "Notre Dame Catholic School."

  • @kyussrock29
    @kyussrock29 2 роки тому +2

    Awesome . Really looking forward to this

  • @heshamahmed1820
    @heshamahmed1820 2 роки тому +5

    Thanks a bunch for such a great video, as usual. Greetings from Egypt

  • @MrNektarios1973
    @MrNektarios1973 2 роки тому +25

    Great video, it would be very interesting if you made a video about the militarized Anabaptists and the occupation of the city of Munster. I believe that militaristic Anabaptism is an aspect of religious European history that is unknown to many people today.

  • @adamblaylockmtg
    @adamblaylockmtg 2 роки тому +6

    Love seeing Malcolm Barber getting cited anywhere. I have read too many of his books at this point.

    • @AWikkedMoon
      @AWikkedMoon 2 роки тому

      The Cathar were the 120 seed of Seth, that are NOW here in this age. The 120 are the Ones who will awaken all. The inquisition went to kill them. They said to the Cathar, after they made a great bon fire. "You will become catholic or we will throw you into the fire". The Cathar just walked into the fire. They had no pain. This scared the hell out of the inquisition, lol. "The Gnostic Truth, The 120 seed of Seth". ua-cam.com/video/fCWPpmomyv0/v-deo.html&ab_channel=AWikkedMoon

  • @richardlilley6274
    @richardlilley6274 2 роки тому +2

    Thank you for sharing your knowledge and investigations

  • @gavinflorence9416
    @gavinflorence9416 Рік тому +2

    Wow, this was fascinating thanks so much! I am eager to learn more about them!

  • @volvo507
    @volvo507 2 роки тому +50

    Hearing about the Cathars makes me think of Jorge Louis Borges’ short story ‘Tlön, Uqbar, Orbis Tertius’, a description of a fictional Heretical state that believed mirrors and procreation were evil as the propagated the material world.

    • @johnjosmith42
      @johnjosmith42 2 роки тому +5

      Thank you for this, I’m going to re read that now tomorrow. I adore Borges 👏

    • @postmodernmining
      @postmodernmining 4 місяці тому +1

      Hermeticism

  • @brezovprut4431
    @brezovprut4431 2 роки тому +24

    Catharism seems like it was highly influenced by both social revolt and religious movements like gnosticism, arianism and islamic mysticism (sufism).
    In fact Sufism helped Ottomans a lot to easly approach "heretic" Christians, like e.g. Bosnian church followers which shared common practices.

    • @philly442
      @philly442 5 місяців тому

      do you know more about Bosnia? I know that the Serbian rules talked to Pope Innocent iii accusing Bosnians of using a form of Bogomils by the Bulgars. But would like to hear the Bosnian perspective if you are.

    • @brezovprut4431
      @brezovprut4431 5 місяців тому

      @@philly442 What topics/sources you are interested in? About Bosnian heretical church? Medieval period of Bosnia in general? Conversion to Islam or?

  • @themischeifguide
    @themischeifguide 2 роки тому +1

    Another great video Cap'n!

  • @onion6foot
    @onion6foot 3 місяці тому +2

    Well done. Your manner of speaking is appreciated.

  • @alexbadila1
    @alexbadila1 2 роки тому +3

    "...who is definitely not a fan."
    This great understatement made me chuckle.

  • @dzenoo8gerrard
    @dzenoo8gerrard 2 роки тому +42

    Great presentation as always, but quite dissapointed that you were talking about Bogumils without mentioning medieval Kingdom of Bosnia, the only entity in Europe where some form of dualism was accepted as an official state religion. Consequently, many Cathars running away from the Crusaders found their shelter in Bosnia.

    • @Eddn102
      @Eddn102 2 роки тому +7

      That's because it's not a settled matter whether the krstjanin of the Bosnian church actually considered themselves to be bogomils.

  • @therealzilch
    @therealzilch 2 роки тому +2

    Another wonderfully informative video.

  • @vasilenegru2893
    @vasilenegru2893 2 роки тому

    Thank you, I really enjoyed this video!

  • @EdwardNoguera
    @EdwardNoguera 2 роки тому +8

    Interesting to hear that there may never have been a unified Cathar heresy. If any of you are looking for fiction that incorporates this religious minority, I recommend Kate Mosse's Labyrinth that alternates between the present and the Crusade. Great video as always!

  • @Tactical_DZ
    @Tactical_DZ 2 роки тому +6

    Very interesting, thank you for the history and beliefs of these people. 🍻

  • @SKNAZIR-sx1th
    @SKNAZIR-sx1th 2 роки тому +2

    Thanks for your new video . good explain.

  • @evanescapades2513
    @evanescapades2513 Рік тому

    This has been enlightening for me... bless you!!!!

  • @tolrem
    @tolrem 2 роки тому +8

    An interesting book on the subject is "Montaillou,The Promised Land of Error" by Emmanuel Le Roy Ladurie.He builds a picture of that village in 1300 which had a sizeable Cathar adherence,gleaned from records of the Inquisition.Interestingly the mayor of the town in 1300 has the same surname as the mayor in very recent times.Very interesting insight into Medieval village life quite apart from the religious aspect.

    • @susanna3295
      @susanna3295 2 роки тому +2

      I second that recommendation! I read "Montaillou" just a couple of weeks ago, mainly for the insight into a Medieval village, and it was a very interesting portrait of the people in the village! Good book, a bit dense on and off, but definetly worth a read if anyone is interested in Medieval history or Christian religion history.

  • @dntodo6749
    @dntodo6749 Рік тому +4

    Filip, So many of the illustrations are fascinating that I'd like to quote them in another context. I realise it may take too much work, but if you could possibly label some, or all of the medieval images, I should be very grateful.

  • @vicmorrison8128
    @vicmorrison8128 2 роки тому +2

    Very well done. Thanks!

  • @linny9842
    @linny9842 2 роки тому

    Ive been waiting for someone to make a video on this.

  • @deli_doo
    @deli_doo Рік тому +4

    There si a book from John Fine about Bosnian Church which was "heretical" and pope often sent crusades on bosnian heretics. Head of church was considered as a pope for the heretics in Europe

  • @elainedaprano9130
    @elainedaprano9130 2 роки тому +10

    "Ysabel" is "a novel by Guy Gavriel Kay about the Albigensian Crusade massacre at Montfort. Excellent read, as his work always is.

    • @latieplolo
      @latieplolo 4 місяці тому

      I love Kay's appreciation of history, especially less popular historical periods. The melancholy beauty of Al Rassan is amazing. But the way he handles sex in his stories is so adolescent it really makes me cringe

    • @onion6foot
      @onion6foot 3 місяці тому

      Wow. ​@@latieplolo

  • @Uzair_Of_Babylon465
    @Uzair_Of_Babylon465 2 роки тому +2

    Fantastic video keep it up your doing amazing job.

  • @Liphted
    @Liphted 2 роки тому +1

    Can't wait for this one!!

  • @VictorbrineSC
    @VictorbrineSC 2 роки тому +19

    I'm from Montpellier, and thus was born in the so called "Pays des Cathares" (currently living in what is pretty much the Heart of the land of the Cathars), the Languedoc, so in a way the Cathars hold some place in my heart. Even if there are concrete proof, I'll go against any ideas that the Cathars never existed, even if that would make me a narrow minded prick. They are the heart of our culture, of this region. It's the core of Occitania, and its history and destiny is something that many can relate to. The "Langue d'Oc" and other Occitan dialects are also in danger, yet again disappearing to the way more popular French (or "Langue d'Oil") language. Not saying that the French are ultimate evil people (I mean, I am French), however it would be heartbreaking to see the last whispers of Catharism and Occitan culture as a whole disappear. It's a beautiful region, with a beautiful culture, and awesome people, truly a treasure of France. Viva Occitania! Vive l'Occitanie! Et vive les Cathares!

    • @sagebay2803
      @sagebay2803 Рік тому +1

      Txs for sharing. I was in the Languedoc region as a tourist....loved, loved it! Mesmerizing!

    • @johnadams5245
      @johnadams5245 11 місяців тому

      I've always wanted to go to the caves that the cathars meditated
      Have you been?

  • @margaretstreet6500
    @margaretstreet6500 2 роки тому +5

    René Weisz, The Yellow Cross. Fascinating study of the end of the Cathars by an Oxford scholar. More about how people lived their beliefs.

  • @Shiyounin
    @Shiyounin 2 роки тому

    Wonderful video, thank you.

  • @nikodimo
    @nikodimo 2 роки тому

    Great video!

  • @brucetownsend691
    @brucetownsend691 2 роки тому +18

    This was an interesting topic for me as I was raised a Seventh Day Adventist. That church claims to be the current embodiment of the true remnant church which has been continually persecuted and suppressed but the Catholic Church. (This is not a idea peculiar to the SDA church but is taken from earlier extreme Protestant thinking.). In support of this idea, the SDA present a history in which they are the successors of the Cathars, the Waldensians, the Hussites and just about any other dissident Christian group suppressed by the Catholic Church.
    It is apparent from what you have presented about the Cathars’ beliefs and practices that they have little in common with Seventh Day Adventists other than antipathy to to the Catholic Church and a preference for vegetarianism.
    (Edited to fix a typo)

    • @questor5189
      @questor5189 2 роки тому

      Agreed. According to my research, references to the Albigensians in the SDA publications "The Great Controversy between Christ and Satan" by Ellen G.White, and "God has always had a people" by Kenneth McFarland are, at best, misguided. There is strong evidence that the Cathars of Languedoc believed in the doctrine of Docetism, that Christ did not come in the flesh. This stands in opposition to the Epistles of John the Beloved, who identified this early Gnostic teaching and defined it as the "spirit of antichrist".
      While this may have been a false accusation made against the Cathars by the Church of Rome to give them further reason to have them eliminated, the weight of evidence points to a Cathar adoption of Marcionite and Manichaean doctrine.
      With peculiarity, one of my sources indicates that the Cathars possessed a copy of the Gospel of St. John, and if so, how could they have read it's first chapter and still clung to such a grievous error?

    • @theprinceofdarkness4679
      @theprinceofdarkness4679 2 роки тому +1

      I read a book by a Baptist author who made similar claims for the Cathars Waldensians and several other medieval fringe groups where he appropriated all the groups as the remnant of the "true church" thereby lending credence to the spiritual heritage bequeathed to the Baptist Churches somehow descending through the Anabaptists
      A short time later I read a book on church history that demonstrated some inconsistencies in that notion
      Anyways this video helped me understand it even better

    • @thomasmacginnes100
      @thomasmacginnes100 2 роки тому +1

      every (sect) is the troo path or ✨(it) would not (be) !

    • @bromomento3950
      @bromomento3950 2 роки тому

      Ah random revelation of “true Christianity” did of course happen in 19th century America. That totally makes sense.

    • @brucetownsend691
      @brucetownsend691 2 роки тому +5

      @@bromomento3950 That obvious objection is why new religions frequently pretend to be old. If you just say that god suddenly revealed something novel to you, others will probably dismiss it. So you need to dress it up a the recovery of ancient texts or teachings that have been lost.

  • @jonjon3378
    @jonjon3378 2 роки тому +12

    Thank you for sharing on the Cathars. Your videos are informative and much appreciated. I would highly appreciate more videos on the gnostics and neo-platonists!

  • @larrybuzbee7344
    @larrybuzbee7344 2 роки тому

    Nicely done with the late reveal.

  • @Hemphunter94
    @Hemphunter94 2 роки тому

    Great content

  • @questor5189
    @questor5189 2 роки тому +8

    Thank you Sir for this excellent documentary. Not to be overlooked is what happened to the last remaining bastion of the Cathars at the Castle Montsegur. The Middle Ages were a period of great religious intolerance, and may have been prophecied in the twelfth chapter of The Revelation of St. John.

    • @livestreamsrecordingsuk4529
      @livestreamsrecordingsuk4529 2 роки тому +4

      We had prayers for the Cathars who lost their lives at Monsignor recently across Europe and the world I took part they are not forgotten the holy grail link makes them a special faith & religion let's not forget the Bogomils also similer faith and they had contact with each other I believe .

    • @questor5189
      @questor5189 2 роки тому +2

      @@livestreamsrecordingsuk4529 Wonderful and thank you.
      With peculiarity, The Cathars are referred to as Albigensians in the 1888 publication of "The Great Controversy between Christ and Satan" by Ellen G. White. In "People of the Piedmont" (1582?) they are referred to as the "Pure Ones".
      My only concern is the accusations of Docetism made against them by their detractors.

    • @livestreamsrecordingsuk4529
      @livestreamsrecordingsuk4529 2 роки тому +3

      @@questor5189 Thanks for the information I have come across the holy man Marcel Manning he seems to have alot of knowledge on the Cathars he has met other religious Faith's in India and traveled I believe to tibet also .

  • @PierroCh5
    @PierroCh5 2 роки тому +86

    Yes !! As a French person from the south it means so much to me that you, of all my favourite Religion/History youtubers, talk about the Cathares (as we call them nowadays) !
    Such a fascinating Christian movement, that had to suffer the terrible oppression of the Catholic Church... The Cathares are very reminiscent of another, smaller, Christian movement that also appeared in what is now mostly France, called the Vaudois.

    • @MohamedRamadan-qi4hl
      @MohamedRamadan-qi4hl 2 роки тому +20

      Have you listened to the video nothing about them was Christian

    • @googleaccount4471
      @googleaccount4471 2 роки тому +17

      They were vile gnositc heretics nothing Christian about them

    • @PierroCh5
      @PierroCh5 2 роки тому +23

      All three of the comments I've received so far are examples of the things I dislike about this forsaken website :) Chill, folks !

    • @mosquitobight
      @mosquitobight 2 роки тому +12

      @@googleaccount4471 chill out your holiness, the crusades have been over for centuries

    • @googleaccount4471
      @googleaccount4471 2 роки тому +2

      @@mosquitobight Only to the blind.

  • @malinmagnusson3186
    @malinmagnusson3186 Рік тому +1

    Huge fan of your channel! Thank you so much for doing the work and putting out this kind of knowledge to the mob haha. However, I would really appreciate if you took a couple of seconds to explain who took part in these kind of religious movements, thoughts and cults, as well as who were "let in" or allowed to take part. For an example, as you the describe in the terms within the hierarchy of the cathars (elder son, younger son), should we interpret this as a strict male following or did women also take part? I would be very interested to know how this looked in ancient Greece or during the Hellenistic era, especially since ancient Greece was a predominantly patriarchal society. As many of these ancient societies also were extremely polarized, did citizenship, slavery, name or nobility play a role? Thanks for the good work!

  • @louisdelmar6853
    @louisdelmar6853 2 роки тому

    Excellent!!! Thank you!!!

  • @festerburg87
    @festerburg87 2 роки тому +6

    Thanks for all your videos. The Waldensians would make for a good video as well.

    • @rolandscales9380
      @rolandscales9380 2 роки тому

      A very different set of beliefs, observing the creeds of mainstream Christianity.

  • @davidterry3288
    @davidterry3288 2 роки тому +9

    These are not the cat species from Star Wars you were looking for.

  • @dinnerwithfranklin2451
    @dinnerwithfranklin2451 2 роки тому

    Very interesting, thank you.

  • @michalmonstrov137
    @michalmonstrov137 Рік тому +4

    5:27 text reads something like "Heretic teaching heresy". Gotta love those medieval inscriptions

  • @nowhereman6019
    @nowhereman6019 2 роки тому +70

    I'm imagining a world where the Cathar's survived and eventually encountered the Vedic religions and Buddhism and had complex discussions on their relatively similar beliefs, such as what happened with Dara Shikoh.

    • @nilesbutler8638
      @nilesbutler8638 Рік тому +5

      Also think of the althist consequences for the religious schism wars later on. Languedoc was - before the crushade - a heavily populated economical heavyweight region in europe, proudly independent against the parisean french throne.
      In the 100-years war as well as the reformatory conflicts that region would probably have made some alliances to shift the power balance considerably.
      Also modern vegetarianism would have it somewhat easier I guess.

    • @chronikhiles
      @chronikhiles Рік тому +2

      The Vedic religion started to decline with the spread of Buddhism and Jainism though, it would have more likely encountered Vaishnavism and Shaivism.

    • @Bundpataka
      @Bundpataka 11 місяців тому +3

      They’re not that similar

    • @CountArtha
      @CountArtha 4 місяці тому +1

      The Cathars are just one example of the most common heresy: Gnosticism. It will probably never be totally wiped out; not before Jesus returns.

    • @ferretyluv
      @ferretyluv 4 місяці тому +1

      Well their beliefs are very similar to Manichaeism, as mentioned in the video.

  • @lewisbrooks4
    @lewisbrooks4 2 роки тому +10

    I am puzzled as to why there is no mention of Simon de Montfort and his campaigns against the Cathars in Carcassonne Did it happen or not? Were those persons Cathars
    as we are told or Medieval disinformation? I would like to see this addressed in some future article.

  • @mattkemerait
    @mattkemerait 2 роки тому +1

    I've been reading "The Crusades" by Thomas Asbridge. These videos are excellent.

  • @TawsifEC
    @TawsifEC 2 роки тому +27

    I enjoy your content. I learned about the Cathar Church in a Medieval Heresies course during my undergrad. They posed as competition and opposition to the Catholic Church in a significant way.
    But as you mentioned, the notion that the Cathar "Church" was potentially more of a fictitious institution embodying various fears and interests of the Western Church is worth serious consideration.

    • @marstonbicks2517
      @marstonbicks2517 2 роки тому +2

      I think there is something much deeper in regards to cathars as well as gnosticism in the western religious cannon. I like watching these videos but don't have too much knowledge outside of my reformations class from college but the works of the author phillip k dick, especially valis, almost makes my little tinfoil hat brain in regards to the catholic church go ding ding ding.

    • @ModernEphemera
      @ModernEphemera 2 роки тому +2

      More like the interest of the French crown, who happily did all the work of the crusade and benefitted greatly, despite being hardly mentioned in this video

  • @toxicstatesofamerica1277
    @toxicstatesofamerica1277 2 роки тому +17

    They actually referred to Rome as "the seat of Satan."

  • @chadwhitman1811
    @chadwhitman1811 Рік тому +5

    The extermination of the Cathars was so complete that while the crusade to exterminate them is a real a historical event , the movement itself was so thoroughly eradicated as to doubt whether it ever had any real substance. Which I take to mean the idea or essence existed but the substance or material structure of an organization may not have. In any case they were even more throughly repressed than even the Christians of Japan who were persecuted to extinction in the seventeenth century and survived only as a highly secretive underground movement.

    • @ludonymous526
      @ludonymous526 Місяць тому

      Blame the man, not the religion.

  • @dinyhotmail
    @dinyhotmail 5 місяців тому

    Thank you. I have been attempting to research Christian sects unrelated to the Catholic Church. I hope that you have done videos on other early Christian groups. I will now go through your videos to see. Wonderful research and presentation.

  • @Politicallyhomeless957
    @Politicallyhomeless957 2 роки тому

    Cool Chanel! Subbed bud 👍

  • @0lAllan
    @0lAllan 2 роки тому +43

    The Cathars' views were eerily similar to Zoroastrians. I'm not say there's a direct correlation (I don't enough to claim that) but it's strikingly similar.

    • @spamachuchan8824
      @spamachuchan8824 2 роки тому +15

      That is how I feel about every religious view; I'm always doing a "thumb tacks and string" presentation in my head finding similarities in religions. Which is why I don't feel I fit into any religious groups.

    • @cemyildiz7842
      @cemyildiz7842 2 роки тому +6

      @@spamachuchan8824 Paulicianism is the connection between Cathars and Zoroastrians.

    • @paulstewart6293
      @paulstewart6293 2 роки тому

      I know a Zorastrian. A young perse. A very intelligent beautiful person. Golima.

    • @TheLkoler
      @TheLkoler 2 роки тому +1

      Is there a connection between the Templars and the introduction of Catharism into Europe? I believe Graham Hancock says this is in his book Talisman.

    • @harisnuman3538
      @harisnuman3538 2 роки тому

      @@TheLkoler possible

  • @jeangove01
    @jeangove01 4 місяці тому +3

    You seem to skip the political aspect of the Albigensian Crusade, that is, that the northern kingdom and nobility wanted an excuse to exercise authority over the south. The south of what we think of as France was, and to some extent still is, actually Occitan, ethnically, linguistically and culturally different from the French north.

  • @dhavalmehta9854
    @dhavalmehta9854 2 роки тому +2

    Excellent information and narration as always. Can you please create a series on Crusades and their barbarity?

    • @HOENUMAN
      @HOENUMAN Рік тому +1

      Crusades happened against islamic empire

  • @williamarturonewman3373
    @williamarturonewman3373 2 роки тому +1

    I heard a lot about cathars by the rosacrucians, they argue be cathars and have there ancient knowledge... Well great video, really a great work.

  • @KristinkaAranova
    @KristinkaAranova 2 роки тому +3

    I have been to Carcassonne, which is a medieval city that was seiged by the crusaders during the Cathar Crusade

    • @andreebesseau6995
      @andreebesseau6995 2 роки тому +1

      So did I.i still fell them.carcassone was defended by women.

  • @zoonpolitikon14
    @zoonpolitikon14 Рік тому +3

    I think I am a distant descendant of these people, very fascinating information in this video thanks

  • @Concurr
    @Concurr 2 роки тому +1

    220k subscribers, get in man!
    Still banging out consistently great content.
    Could you tell me what picture that is at 14:35? Or does anybody else have a clue?

    • @LetsTalkReligion
      @LetsTalkReligion  2 роки тому

      I keep finding it online, but haven't been able to find the original source.

    • @Concurr
      @Concurr 2 роки тому

      @@LetsTalkReligion Cheers. I'll get a screenshot of it! 😊

  • @JJBushfan
    @JJBushfan 4 місяці тому +2

    There was an English psychiatrist called Arthur Guirdham who came to a belief in reincarnation through the experiences of one of his patients. He claimed that he began to remember his own previous lives, including one as a Cathar during the Albigensian Crusade. The biggest of his works - which includes several earlier incarnations but concentrates on the Cathar one - is called The Lake and the Castle. It's out of print now, but if anybody should come across a second hand copy, it's well worth a read even if you don't believe a word of what Guirdham claims. It's a most entertaining book. Most of what he says about the Cathars, but not quite all, accords closely with what our splendid guide has been saying in the video.

  • @spineshivers
    @spineshivers 2 роки тому +7

    There's a great song about Cathars from Iron Maiden. It's called Montsegur. You should check it out.

    • @Mika-El-
      @Mika-El- 2 роки тому +1

      Great one.

    • @nakedbeekeeper9610
      @nakedbeekeeper9610 2 роки тому +1

      Kathaarian Life Code is another great one by Darkthrone.

  • @OmegaWolf747
    @OmegaWolf747 2 роки тому +8

    But if the Cathars weren't real, then who were the people being rounded up and murdered?

    • @Mika-El-
      @Mika-El- 2 роки тому +2

      Those unvaccinated by the church of rome.

    • @shadowforger2035
      @shadowforger2035 2 роки тому

      We are real. And we survived. I live West Virginia. We are called the Families of the Eastern Star. We founded Alexandria Virginia and a little Country called the United States of America. Sheltered by the Kale, Romanchal and Scotts we fled to the Forest of Cumberland.

    • @shadowforger2035
      @shadowforger2035 2 роки тому

      @@Mika-El- 😂😂😆

    • @juttaweise
      @juttaweise 2 роки тому

      @@Mika-El- me thinking the same ;o))

  • @christianmyhre7154
    @christianmyhre7154 2 роки тому

    Good stuff

  • @mikexhotmail
    @mikexhotmail 2 роки тому

    Very interesting concept😗

  • @valentinus7776
    @valentinus7776 2 роки тому +8

    A Cathar prayer: Holy Father, Thou just God of all good souls, Thou who art never deceived, who dost never lie or doubt, grant us to know what Thou knowest, to love what thou dost love; for we are not of this world, and this world is not of us, and we fear lest we meet death in this realm of an alien god.

  • @josipbozic7917
    @josipbozic7917 2 роки тому +9

    As always, a very interesting and well done topic at your channel! However, it would have been really interesting if you had described Bogomilism in more detail. Actually, the last Bogomil stronghold, the „Bosnian church“, survived until the middle of the 15th century.

    • @blablabla1044
      @blablabla1044 2 роки тому +1

      And according to some, even early in 17th century!

    • @colinslant
      @colinslant 2 роки тому +4

      Supposedly the last Bogomils converted to Islam after the Ottoman conquest and are the ancestors of the Bosnian Muslims...

    • @blablabla1044
      @blablabla1044 2 роки тому +2

      @@colinslant That theory makes a lot of sense. If you compare Bosnian Muslims with Muslims from ... well, anywhere else, you will notice a very different understanding of what is important. I guess Sufism played a big role, but that also could be traced to Bogumils and their understanding of life.

    • @zeezee8558
      @zeezee8558 2 роки тому +1

      @@colinslant We were always taught in school that the Bogomils converted to Islam because of the great pressure by other Christians. There is a letter we would read where the Bogomils call the Kings of Bosnia as "Cursed Kings" that converted to the Catholic faith and "took the land of the Krstjani and gave it to the Catholics".

  • @EuanMorton_Biz_Int
    @EuanMorton_Biz_Int 2 роки тому +2

    Yay
    New content from Sweden
    Much better than new Abba😊

  • @edwardfield4856
    @edwardfield4856 Рік тому

    Excellent

  • @ggEmolicious
    @ggEmolicious 2 роки тому +32

    Cathars: Do you really need all that gold and marble to teach faith?
    Pope: HERESY!

    • @Testimony_Of_JTF
      @Testimony_Of_JTF 11 місяців тому +1

      Not the main problem with them

    • @TheMolacho1
      @TheMolacho1 4 місяці тому

      That's what Moctezuma said!😂

  • @anshumandcjoshi6424
    @anshumandcjoshi6424 2 роки тому +10

    Was a Cathar nun called "Cathar-sis"?

    • @LetsTalkReligion
      @LetsTalkReligion  2 роки тому +5

      Well done

    • @ludonymous526
      @ludonymous526 Місяць тому

      A good one.

    • @AlessioAndres
      @AlessioAndres Місяць тому

      you do realise that you're talking to yourself instead of engaging with the audience, right?✍️😂

    • @ludonymous526
      @ludonymous526 Місяць тому

      @@AlessioAndres Well. Either way, I found it funny.

  • @adamroub6142
    @adamroub6142 2 роки тому

    Hi thanks for the informative video! Do you know the source on the image that is used @ 14:24? I'd love to track that down.

  • @dudeonthasopha
    @dudeonthasopha 2 роки тому +1

    It'd be cool if you did a video on the nestorians. There aren't many videos about them.

  • @TheWuschi
    @TheWuschi 2 роки тому +6

    Very good feature, thank you! - But since I am a neurotically narrow-minded boomer, I am forced to inform you, that the word is PENITENCE, not PENTIENCE. (Two times in that video - but who counts?) "Penitence. The word is Penitence." (please, hear it in Homer Simpson voice and never unhear it again...)

  • @ninetales6485
    @ninetales6485 2 роки тому +3

    Thank you and Justin for these videos! The Cathars are great source for me in my spiritual practices.

  • @Wkumar07
    @Wkumar07 2 роки тому +1

    What attracts me the most to religious history is the vast array of diverse thought and opinions we find within the world faiths. In today's world many think that the religions we have today are static and never changing. This isn't true and even a cursory view of history will show that what we believe in today is drastically different from what was once believed.

  • @AmandaCan
    @AmandaCan 8 місяців тому +2

    17:05 I wanted to comment on the point you make here. It’s possible also that the Cathars did not believe that sin in the material world mattered and therefore do not have to atone for it. They likely had a very different view on sin than their opponents.

  • @oscarballard7911
    @oscarballard7911 2 роки тому +4

    I'd suggest the Cathars were a result of the earliest Crusaders and Pilgrims from the Holy Land, returning with greatly different understandings and perceptions of Yeshua, His teaching and origins in Gnosticism?

  • @andremiguel1143
    @andremiguel1143 2 роки тому +6

    My direct ancestor fought in the Albigensian Crusade at the request of Philip II Augustus who made him knight.

    • @PeaceLoveHonor
      @PeaceLoveHonor 2 роки тому +1

      Very interesting. Thanks for sharing that.

  • @rafaelramos1486
    @rafaelramos1486 2 місяці тому

    A very interesting video

  • @HOSTU1974
    @HOSTU1974 2 роки тому +2

    I would like to report the intresting studies about Cathars and a link between them and Dante made by an italian scholar named Maria Soresina. Sounds imaginative, but are serious studies. They have even been reported, and found correct (!) by an article in the official newspaper of the Vatican State, "Il secolo XIX"