How EVE Online Got Its Monetisation SO RIGHT (...And How EVE Echoes Screwed Itself)
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- Опубліковано 20 бер 2024
- #captainbenzie #tweetfleet #EVEOnline #exploration #pvp
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Absolutely loved this video. Undergrad was in economics. Fascinating explanation on how Eve makes money and how other systems fail. Keep it up.
Glad you enjoyed it!
I have a feeling my comment on Reddit was partly the cause of this video
Edit: yep, it was me
Sort of, it was more that as I was writing responses I was thinking "I should really talk about this..."
It's a great video. Talks about what went wrong. If only there was a solution offered. Also, a new mobile game is planned??
@@lemuelwonah7076 CCP are working on a mobile game called EVE Galaxy Command. I played three of the closed alpha's, but they're under NDA. CCP officially announced it and showed the start of it at Fanfest. No news since. I did a video on it.
@lemuelwonah7076 It didn't really look like an Eve game at all. More like the Chinese board game "Go" where you capture little sections of the board. Don't think the player base will go for it but maybe a different customer.
3 bill plex is insane. The eve echoes game will be dead by then 😂😂😂
I live in Brazil and one month of omega is about 8% of the average salary.
It costs more than my water bill.
And sure you could point out that the 2 year plan would cut that by 44%, but that’s over an entire month’s worth of a salary here.
Even if my friends were to buy it and divide up the payments with their card, they would still need that high limit.
Some games are able to localize prices. I.e on Steam the $19.99 1 month omega gets to about R$104.4 ish.
But big games that aren’t from AAA studios are usually priced around R$70 to R$100 whereas if it they weren’t localized, they would cost R$300 to R$400 by simply converting it from Euro or Dollars.
I’m not saying EVE should or shouldn’t do this, I just wanted to give the actual numbers to better provide an idea of the impact it is in Brazil.
World of Warcraft, for example is R$39.90 for their 1 month subscription.
I used WoW because my friends prefer playing it over eve for both price and the learning curve, but even those that I got passed the learning curve just could rationalize to themselves the amount of money.
A few examples of common salaries are:
Middle to High school teachers: R$1’300 to R$4’300 net, after social security contributions and etc.
Manager at a grocery store: R$2’500 to R$7’000 gross. (Of course if you get a big chain with commissions it can get up to R$10k, stores only have like 3 managers at most.
Cashier: R$1’300 to R$ 2’500.
These are of course ballparks, i didn’t mention rent (that can easily be over R$1’000), these are just numbers so people can get a sense of what the ranges are.
Yeah, I think it's one of those things that places like South America and Africa get forgotten a lot. Thank you for the actual numbers!
@@captainbenzie
1) My absolute pleasure
2) OMG mom I got a heart!
3) Dude I love your content so muchhh!
@@alice20001 thank you for your support, and have another one!!
Regarding agent mission, is that why storyline missions exist - the ones that want to make you face empire factions, so you decline them due to not wanting to deal with fixing faction standings, so you eventually get a cool down, which effectively pauses the ISK stream for you from agent missions?
This is a very adult and thoughtful response and therefore is valuable.👍
Thank you
I left Echoes because of this. I gave my old EO Account another chance and now I'm running one main and four ALTs. EE makes EO look so damn good ^^
Awesome! Welcome home!!
I left echoes for the same reason. It just made me want to play eve online.
Yup, in Brazil buying one month Omega in local currency would mean paying about 4to5 times the value in dollars. In the eve store, it says 1 mo is 19,99. I still don't know if this value is already converted, and i couldn't easily clarify that so i just grinded my omega through in game. Now i know there's no losses, I got Omega and ccp still got their money.
Nice, well done!!
Hmm, good points, never thought of it that way before.
One hitch: if you buy PLEX when it's on sale, then buy Omega from the NES when that's also on sale, then you spend less :D
Still usually works out that Omega on Sale is cheaper than Omega when PLEX is on sale 😉
Think point is use be able play make enough which kept player retention not everyone has credit cards or able afford even though 20 us dollars sure not much but everything else in real life has got outrageous
yup that is how i bought 3 years of omega with the old price. I think it is 6 euro a month with the sale back then.
Yup now many just don't play because most not in position skill or otherwise make 2-3b month for plex and some who are grind for then have basically start cycle over so not fun if get what mean.@@BBRAIN1977
Glad echoes brought me back to online. Glad i got out of echoes before the core uodate. That would have killed my desire to get back into online.
I feel like im in a third world country now as a canadian. 1$ USD is 73 cents canadian so for 100$ USD it cost us 136$ + tax so about 153.68$ and even in Canada the eve store in USD last time I spent money at the eve store I felt like a dog with his tale between his legs lol cheers mate on the great vids
If I was American it still be cheaper to buy my membership in plex lol
Oof that's harsh! Thanks for sharing though!
I see alot of this in general, but the problem that is simultaneously caused by this is the player loss that has been fairly consistent since alpha was brought in. After the inital surge active accounts started dropping and at a fairly consistent rate to where now the active players are akin to what it was in 2007, however the multiboxers increased, meaning the individual players could be lower than this, and if you watch ccp talking about numbers you will notice that is something they have shyd away from in the past 8 years, with the last confirmed numbers coming out in 2016. Alot of people playing for free in the back of new players buying plex can't be good for retention, and several ways of generating isk from farming with multiboxing making it look like normal players can't compete. Sure eve can't be pay to win, and so the monetisation isint as bad as other games, but the flip side isint good either, and the alpha ganking that took ccp years to fix cost ccp in the player base numbers that left because of it.
I'd argue that multiboxing is still "multiple players" for the purposes of content generation, but I get what you mean.
EVE Echoes was excitement. I installed but when I felt like basic things are behind money wall. I quickly uninstalled and never turned back. It was just meking me more EVE online.
Yeah, I don't blame you
I still can't get over the fact that one of the most effective ways to grind ISK, especially for newer players, is to get an extra part-time IRL job making minimum wage and just buying PLEX with your earnings. Plus the huge skill tree and the time it takes to train skills is a huge barrier, and I don't think new players will stay interested for very long while they wait around for skills to level so they can experience the gameplay they want. Skill boosters are definately a huge improvement, but like Omega licences, starting out you will probably have to pay for it in PLEX unless you find a generous sponsor. Feeling preasured into paying what is really quite a lot of money in a video game to accelerate the skill process for just a few weeks, on top of paying for Omega, is going to turn off a lot of new players. Not to mention, skill boosters require Biology to extend their durration, so if you don't read the fine print, you're getting screwed over on the value of your money. All of this has made multiboxing (and botting) much more attainable and common, to the point where it is a big part of the solo meta if you want to make really good ISK, and I'm not sure multiboxing (and of course botting) is particularly healhty for the game. Still a cool game, but I think a lot of the joy I get in playing is similar to that of a strategic gambling game like poker.
i currently run 3 accounts and pay for the game time with plex bought with isk. i actually find making isk in the game to be too easi, and paying for the game time to be cheap. i do my accounts on yearly basis, and last time i paid for my main account they even had an extra 20% discount, so i paid 14-15 bill for 12 months of game time, which averages out to 1.2 bill a month, which again are only 40 mill a day on average, and just staying on top of you PI setup should make you at least twice as much, with barely any effort at all. just start do some simple rig production should also easily make you twice as much with barely no effort. the problem with the game are so many people are so afraid of doing stuff that can actually make them money, so all they wanna do are sit in high sec mining veldspar, and if that the case, ofc you arent making any proper isk
So, here is what I saw in my mind while I listened to you gleefully talking, nothing against you and no offense intended, just what I thought of and I couldn't stop laughing:
You sound so excited explaining this, and all i see is a man, standing in a room, mouth gaped wide open in shock and awe!!.... he flushes the toilet OMG LOOK WHAT THIS LEVER DOES..
Hahahahahahahaha. Yep. That's what i saw in my mind while listening to you haha. Take care ✌🏼❤☯️
Lmao wut 😂😂😂
incredible breakdown video - love it when you do economics - wow
Thank you 😊
Did you see what EE’s Cloud posted on March 15 on Discord? Caused me to do a double take.
“We plan to reduce the number of ships and make each ship more useful.
For example, keep only one Raven, which can become an attacker, striker or navy issue.”
This almost sounds like they’re going to redo the tech tree to make it somewhat like EO (so max T3) but in a variant sort of way. Might help new players by removing the massive tech tree gap but not sure if it will change anything with the ballooning plex prices (as you noted in your vid).
Even if they do this now, it's too late. There are no new players really. Echoes has dug itself too deep.
That not going to fix anything the issue is so expensive in game for many things and ratting and other things been nerfed into the ground so many not want be 2nd job just make 2.5 bil or whatever in game that be way to many hours to point you never get out of cycle play hrs make plex start over
I remember buying a 3 month game card and selling it for 600m isk lol.
The rmt part of Eve is often overlooked .
I have always loved the monetization of eve online. Although it has added a few extra things that I am not that happy about...buying skill points, hypercores, expert systems etc. But the idea that you can sell the subscription (PLEX) to other players is the best monetization system around. By sticking to the subscription method as the only monetization it means that the devs are not releasing the next item boost every other week for real world money.
I just love the idea of a mineable PLEX asteroid, somewhere out in deep null … you could have a lot of fun NOT mining it and just camping the routes to the gold rush …
Lmao 🤣
Spitting that Trojan Horse intell again 😆
😅
Finally a good topic to press on! ❤
♥️
I am the first one😀
I cannot say much on this topic. The only thing what matters is that it would be quite costly to run multiple alts for me irl, and i cannot plex at all from the simple fact of limited playtime
Well, you CAN PLEX, just not every month 😅 and that's okay too. To be fair, I don't use alts at all (other than a trading alt on the same account as my main that's Alpha)
@@captainbenzie if its on the same account as your main its not alpha, all characters on an omega account are omega. using an alpha toon to trade makes no sense unless you want to hemorrhage isk because of high fees and no trade skills.
@@BanControl sorry, meant it's not MCT
@@captainbenzie well yeah, but i need a cyno alt if i ever want to fly a rorqual
When I first started Echoes I put down a lot of money on it. Had an Orca within a short time. But then I got disillusioned. I never undocked the thing. My nullsec corp fell apart with people leaving. I stopped playing, and I'm glad I did -- even before AI cores existed. Eve Online is a much better game. I was just hoping to be part of the big earner crowd early in Echoes and try to make my life there nice, but the game disagreed with my methods - it just wants me to swipe my credit card to have a good time.
EVE Online is a sandbox. You can do anything.
EVE Echoes is a theme park. You can do anything... That the Devs actively WANT you to do.
Those with more money than time matching with those that have more time than money. Symbiosis.
Lmao exactly!
Regarding Eve echoes prices, the Abaddon battleship now sells for 2.8 billion just for the hull. For a normal player doing a bit of ratting and mining. Makes it very hard to play now.
Do you mean EVE Echoes? The Abaddon is much cheaper in EVE Online
@@captainbenzie sorry yes eve echoes lol.
Been a while since i seen a benzie video, have to admit that i missed the long rants haha
I've been putting out a video every day, Monday to Friday, (pretty much) for the past six years! 😂😂😂
😁🤑🐳🤑😁
I'm a 2%er😊
♥️
Seeing how CCP made an update announcement for EvE Echoes (fan fest) when the Echoes community knew nothing of what was coming till CCP mentioned it makes me feel that they have a contract with CCP to support the game for "x" time.
That said I still stand by what I always say to this topic. Netease opened EvE Echoes in August 2020 and they will close the servers in August 2025.
Brilliantly explained Capt.
Thank you
"you can't farm Plex ingame"
Not with that attitude, every character gets one plex from an agent for buying a skin as part of a tutorial, all you have to do is create 500 characters, earn evermarks or whatever causes that to occur, transfer the plex and then delete the character, I wonder at what plex prices that would become lucrative.
My definition of "farming" includes an unspoken understanding of it being "reasonably doable" 😉
Im alpha and and am wanting to live in WH but my corp dosent 😭
Find a wormhole corp then!!
Many corps out there will be happy to have you and encourage you to do what you want.
There’s plenty of wormhole corps which accept alphas..!
My corp is rlly good tho and it helps me a ton@@captainbenzie
Sadly I can’t play eve because of how powerful multiboxing is. I also don’t like my playtime having a per hour value attached to it, and it’s always minimum wage in these games at max play efficiency. Great game but in a game style (sandbox) that’s supposed to give you the freedom to create your own value in the game, the monetization controls that, I’m much more in favor of cosmetic or subscription based games
Just join a good corp. It's an MMO, and multiboxing is just making up for a lack of friends. I don't multibox at all. I have only one account.
and going back to watch ur vids on abyssal deadspace lol
Haha enjoy!!
At 4:00 you said "you can't farm PLEX in game". Technically (and I put a lot of weight into that word), that's not true. You can get PLEX from Project Discovery reward crates, and that's the primary reason people buy them on the market.
I'd argue that's not really "farmable" 😅
@@captainbenzie it is, you just need many alts 😁
So why hasn't CCP Games steped in to try and fix the Ship that Netease has torpedo?
Seriously Netease is Hurting the Eve Brand why isnt The people that have put so much love and Effort into making it tried to stop netwase of taken the game back from them?
The Eve Echoes playerbase is stupid. You read it on Reddit all the time.
There's no free to play, you pay with your time instead of your credit card.
"Free to Play" refers to whether or not you spend money. Time, generally, is not considered.
The Eve online model, while inherently p2w, at least is limited by the fact that if every player just pays for the subscription and everything that plex can buy with their own money, there would be no demand for plex and therefore no pay-to-win. I see this model as just real money trading, doing services for another player (providing isk) in exchange for compensation (in this case plex), the only difference is that you can only spend the earned 'money' on Omega.
It is in no way P2W. I massively disagree there. It just allows a quicker catch-up and more options.
P2W? You mean pay to buy the biggest ship in the game and have it destroyed out from under you because you don't know how to fly it properly?
@@captainbenzieIf that is your definition of p2w, then fine. It honestly doesn't matter all that much considering there is little to no ways for CCP to 'design the problem and sell the solution' as some of the popular mmo youtubers put it. I mean what can they do? Decrease the isk you can gain? That would just decrease Plex prices, and the prices for everything else, so it doesn't incentise more people to buy Plex. The only thing that CCP can possibly do to anything the can be remotely considered 'creating the problem' would be to increase skill training time, which isn't much. The main issue with pay to win/pay for convinence in most games where it is present is that developers are incentivised to milk the players for all their worth, like net ease did with eve echoes, but Eve Online, and by extension any MMO with a subscription token system don't have that issue for obvious reasons.
If I'm a billionaire, and as soon as my corporation loses a fight, I spend money to instantly rebuild my fleet and crush the weakened opposition, it's the definition of P2W. If you can spend money to acquire something that can give you power, it's P2W.
How is it p2w? I've been playing off and on since 2007 maybe 2008. I remember when they first dropped the plex system and how it saved me years of subscription cost. But I don't see how it's p2w, even with the skill injector.
When are you going to actually move on from echoes? Like ik your not playing anymore but it seems thats all you talk about.
This is a video about EVE Online that makes some comparisons and gives a counterexample of how this system can be ignored and sets up failure. It's not an Echoes video. Besides the mentioning of it in this video, I've mentioned Echoes maybe twice in the past four months? Not sure how that equates to "all I talk about".