Conservatives Living into "New Reality" of the UMC - A Conversation with Randy Frye
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- Опубліковано 28 тра 2024
- UMNews picked up an article published by the Holston Annual Conference, which was essentially an interview with conservative clergy, the Rev. Dr. Randy Frye, who is a self-proclaimed conservative (though he hates labels) who will be staying in The United Methodist Church. In the article, he talks about how the legislation at the most recent General Conference only brings the issue of gay marriage "back to neutral," and how the denomination is still making room for conservatives like us.
I had a hard time understanding how a conservative could say these things. It turns out his thoughts are a little more nuanced than the article was able to represent. I still find myself in a pretty different place than him, but I appreciate his efforts to remain faithful where he is. My hope is publishing this is that it helps conservatives within the UMC to think through how it is that they want to participate in that covenant body, if at all. Rev. Frye presents an example of how one might navigate these issues faithfully from within, if one so chooses.
Links:
'Conservative Pastor Says He Will Live Into New Reality' by Annette Spence - www.holston.org/article/randy...
Website for First Broad Street UMC - www.fbsumc.org/ - Розваги
I'm a former Methodist that was a Methodist even before the union with the United Brethren(?) in 1968(?). I left the UMC in 2006 because of the duplicity and false Gospel being taught by most of the UMC Board members and schismatic clergy. My decision was further confirmed with the General Conference of 2024.
Great interview. Get Randy back in six months time!
Im too old to wait for ANOTHER split. I have been holding my tongue for over 20 years. It's not going to get better. DONE . THE 2024 GENERAL CONFERENCE past a point of no return for me to continue supporting my UMC. SADLY I will quietly remove myself and my membership. I pray for God to lead me to a better place of worship. This video has helped me to realize that my decision is right. I will miss my great Sunday school class and all who attend. God's word comes first.
My husband and I are right where you are. Sad to leave our lifelong church.
Great interview. I personally could see myself in this brother’s church. He/his church seems to be solid and called to spread the gospel and make disciples.
What I don’t understand is aligning oneself to a theology / organization that appears to be not having the same mission. Not opposite necessarily but not prioritized the same.
I personally could not see myself support, give money, or put myself under authority of the folks now in charge.
Thanks for joining us Pastor Frye. I'm a UMC lay/council member trying to figure my role in the church and every day feel the pressure to just leave and focus on other ministries, but also to stay and focus on the mission of bringing the church back to a holy focus that seems lost at upper levels. Reading the article you were interviewed in, the one quote I would push back on is "All we did was go back to the 1968 Book of Discipline which said nothing about human sexuality". I have found that to be one of the lies of the church. No same sex marriages even occurred legally in the US until 2004, so the church simply was beginning to respond to a cultural shift in emphasis. To take the quote from the article , "Do we not think that murder, theft, lying, adultery or rape are incompatible with Christian teaching? Because we don’t say that in the Discipline. We targeted one sin." should another sin beginning to become culturally normative, wouldn't it be the churches role to focus to some degree on them? And certainly we are at a point where the church as a whole is not simply no longer targeting the sin, but now are welcoming it as not being a sin.
Thank God that there are still very Godly/holy pastors still in the UMC. One can only wonder how long it will be before they are driven out. May a mighty revival come upon all of our churches, this nation, before it is too late as our society is already dreadfully ugly.
Following your heart is a bad idea. Jeremiah 17:9 says that our hearts are deceitful above all things.
I predict that Holston bishop and Rev.Frye are going to be called on the carpet very soon. Holston conference is not an island.
And we don’t follow our hearts pastor!!! We follow the Word of God.
Thanks so much for engaging this pastor. Exactly what I needed to hear today. Ministry is local.
This reminds me of the story that the German Lutheran congregations would sing their hymns loudly to drown out the cries coming from the trains heading towards the concentration camps. There is none so blind as those who will not see. 😢
A lot of lawyers are going to be employed for the next few years suing the UMC.
Plenty of times, I felt unwelcome because of my conservative theological stance
I also think he denies the ramifications of the connectionalism that uniquely separates Methodist from other denominations.
I pray for my Brother Randy by saying “ THERE WILL NOT BE THE SAME WEEDING HERE” THE BISHOPS ARE NOT IN ACCORDANCE WITH HIM AND THEY ARE CLEAR.
SAD! There hides a great coward and an ostrich. This is how the UMC went bad. "My bishop would never allow that" ... "Well if it comes, I will be retired." "There's nothing I can do. I am JUST a pastor (of a huge church." "If it happens elsewhere, it is none of my affair." It is men like him that destroyed the UMC, not the liberals. Neville Chamberlin comes to mind. May he NOT have peace in his own time.
Thank you for saying this. He is a coward.
I left the Methodist church decades ago. I never heard the need for salvation preached there!
That’s not how appointments work. If his church is doing that, they are in violation of finance rules. And they are keeping two sets of books.
Great discussion. So good to hear a fair conversation from both sides. Usually, it is all from one viewpoint or the other.
I’m really grateful for these programs. Biblical authority has already been compromised by the church with hermeneutics that contrasts modern homosexuality from the biblical to support the move toward normalizing it.
My question is: Do trustees have the power now to go against a pastor if he refuses to perform a same sex wedding? What if parish relations are divided over this issue? Won’t this potentially create division among members in local congregations? God help us.
Thanks for sharing your heart!
Yes, his Bishop is closer to retirement than not. The changes made to the Discipline in the UMC will seep through the entire denomination.
Institutionalism is the only way I can explain this.
AMAZING!
This poor guy........he's about to get tossed around by what's coming (already arrived).......he can probably get to his 72 yr old mandatory retirement without too much trouble......but completely unrealistic about the leeway he or his church is going to be given......though, he might get a partial pass for the next 5 years as long as they get to use him as a "graceful" example of a "conservative figure who can live in the big tent of the current UMC"......but this guy....he seems to be all over the place with no real understanding of the current situation......but appreciate you pursuing this interview. Good work!
I have read a lot of articles and watched many videos since the General Conference. My impression is that clergy and laity who have or have had significant roles in UM leadership are grasping at straws for their desire to stay in the denomination. Almost as if they are afraid they will lose their status and reputation if they break away. I left the denomination two years ago. The key for me was the word "United." I didn't want to be 'united' to what the denominational leadership was doing. You don't have to be in the UMC to love Jesus and make disciples. In scanning the plenary sessions I heard one bishop invite people who didn't like the way the denomination was going to leave so the rest of them could do their work. Looks like a lot of people are taking his advice.
I also am an Asbury Seminary Grad. I know many ministers with the views of Rev. Frye. I am sure that they will continue to make a Jesus difference. But, frankly, I think they are holding onto something that should be let go. I think he is correct in that the coming struggle will be over UU. It already dominates the western conferences.
In the western conferences, it is too late to leave. I think it will similarly be too late if churches wait until UU becomes predominant in the midwest and south.
Interesting conversation.
I have friends who are UMC ministers. They are right at retirement age, just like this pastor.
I understand your concerns with how he will ethically navigate the new UMC.
I can't speak for Pr Frye, but it would be difficult to leave after spending so many years in the church, and now approaching retirement.
It seemed to me that you were putting some pressure on him for choosing to remain where he is. I could be mistaken, but that's how it looked to me.
You're still young. Maybe when you're 70 you might see things a little differently.
I've watched several of your videos and have appreciated them all. Keep up the good work!
You saw correctly. I was putting pressure on him. That's the only way I know how to get some of the answers I'm seeking. You're completely right that my views are subject to change based on receiving new information, including information when I'm older. For now, I can't help but see things the way that I do. Seeking mutual understanding is the role of this channel. I'm glad you have appreciated it thus far!
I love your guest’s statement. “I’m a follower of Jesus”.
I (similar to his "Budget Reserve" told my pastor I would support the local church but not the denomination. So I give a designated offering 2x per month electronically with a note that says "Local chuch only - No Apportionments"
We were told we could designate building fund or whatever. I later learned they would use any funds to make apportionments. The financial person handling it was a retired banker and she will move around whatever.
For the last year or two, i redesignated my tithes to a different part of the church fund that was apportionment related. Now in the gmc....i became free of that
It all becomes an untenable situation so the best thing is to personally get out.
He predicts another split when the progressive left changes the theology, but why wait till that happens? And is this changing of the church's sexual ethics not already a theological change? Hes putting alot of faith in his conference and his bishop.
I have a question. My local UMC has started reciting the Apostle's Creed from the United Church of Canada rather than those in the UMC hymnal. Compared to the traditional it seems watered down. Does anyone have thoughts on this they could share?
I appreciate him sticking with the UMC, but I think it's wishful thinking to assume the progressives are going to keep the "big tent" policy. The progressives are just getting started and they've made it clear there is no big tent.
Big tent policy is over. Now they will systematically target churches and get everyone in line with the new program.
This guy is in delusional and in denial. He is justifying staying in because he’s comfortable and needs his retirement. Excuses excuses!
Can you blame him? What about other clergy who have to consider the cost to their families if they leave?
Actually I can! We were UMC clergy living in a parsonage in North Georgia. Of our church vote had failed, our conference would have cut off our health insurance immediately and kicked us out of our home within the week. So yeah! I understand very clearly the risks. We took them and got out because we stand on God’s word and trust him to provide.
We also have 8 children ages 21 to 5. Two in college.
Rev Rickman,
I have been following your UA-cam series for a few years and it has served to expose the actions and motives of the Progressive UMC and the sad situation that has evolved and been validated by the recent radicalization by the General Conference.
I am in great emotional and spiritual distress and pain having been an involved cradle UMC member. The 90% vote to make the changes is a sign of how immoral the church has become.
There is so much insincerity and lack of moral character and integrity in the UMC. I can no longer “go along to get along”. I am a Christian Orphan. But, where do I go? The GMC is so vulnerable to the influences of our culture I fear it will eventually allow carnal thinking to predominate.
I am going to take a sabbatical from Church and pray that Jesus can lead me in the right direction.
Thank you.
Bill Stephens, Pennsylvania
Consider the church as a mission field when and in which situations/relationships that is appropriate. I hope you won't isolate to the detriment of your fellow brothers/sisters in Christ and unbelievers who would be changed by your faithful influence.
We were about where you were, but knew we needed encouragement and guidance. Otherwise, we would just abandon into ourselves, and probably further from God. Please,do be in a Bible believing church. We have found a wonderful GMC. We will keep a better watch on them than we did on the UMC. Blind and uninformed people like me helped the UMC become what it is.
If they try and leave that will be challenged for sure.
As stated in this video, context is important. Part of that context is how First Broad Street dealt with the issue of disaffiliation. Do we have that information? I think one of the reasons that another one of your guests, Joe DiPaolo, stayed was that the church could not come up with the needed 67% vote. So long as such pastors are not hamstrung by the hierarchy, I can see why they think their work is not over, even if it is the UMC.
I didn't even really think to ask him about his own church considering disaffiliation. I carried the assumption that he hadn't really entertained it, nor had his church, as he had always felt comfortable within the UMC and never really felt to be under serious threat.
My concern with Randy‘s position is that it sends mixed messages and downplay the reality of the situation. I also think that Randy‘s decision to stay in the UMC, like many older clergy, is based more on the fact that he is close to retirement.
Will UM congregations be compelled to accept people actively practicing homosexuality as members? What will that mean for conservative congregations?
We need to move away from using terms like "conservative" and "liberal" to describe the propositions on offer here. Those terms give the impression that either approach is valid, as if you are debating tax policy, or any other purely political issue. These descriptors allow people to obscure their motives and the basic nature of their beliefs. A more accurate description of the different viewpoints would be to call one "orthodox / historical Christianity " and the other "non-orthodox/ahistorical beliefs". If one merely accepts the statements of the UMC at face value(with all the talk of moving into a new era based on a new understanding of the Bible) one must conclude that current UMC beliefs are non-orthodox/ahistorical. Once that point is established, a discussion can be had about whether the move away from orthodoxy is positive or a negative, but it seems to me that it would clarify the exact nature of the debate.
Yes some can do church with them but not be faithful to Gods Word concerning sin
I am wondering why the Book of Discipline was not enforced consistently? I am guessing this didn’t happen in part to avoid expensive and time consuming lawsuits once same sex marriage was legalized. Am I correct?
My first instinct - he is not trustworthy. He stands for nothing.
Slippery slope is wrong paradigm. Need to watch which way the American ruling class is moving on these social questions. The wokeness did a lot of morale damage, and some elite want a slow down or partial roll back. But only time will tell how it unfolds.
But while we can't use sexual orientation to refuse a pastor, we could refuse the pastor on the theology of affirmation of homosexuality I believe.
That's politics...
Pastor, I'm glad you've had a good experience in a leftist denomination, but it's not all about your personal experience.
This denomination is leading people to h3ll. How can you endorse and support that?
I'm just going to throw this out there, could the pastor close to retirement, be concerned about his pension?
How could he not be?
Yes. Ours was. Her favorite line before doing it was - first, do no harm. She was also a "progressive" and told us to get with the times and could not have a middle-class white church (we had members of different races). Yeah, I heard her say it. She also retired a little early. Now a 200-year-old church is on the ropes and probably going down.
Jeff can stand it when his guest doesn’t fit his “slippery slope” fixation. What does the GMC book of discipline say about homosexuality?
Did you mean to say that I "can't" stand it? If so, then why would I even publish this conversation? It would be easy for me to just dump it when people don't say what I want them to. Beware of projection, Stan.
quite an astonishing comment. my experience watching this is the opposite of yours. I can’t remember two people who don’t see eye-to-eye yet regard each other with such respect and compassion.
12:06....'the Scriptures "contain" .....'
Isn't that a classic red flag of neoprogressism ?!
A lot of times, it is. In this case, he was paraphrasing Article V of the Articles of Religion: "The Holy Scripture containeth all things necessary to salvation; so that whatsoever is not read therein, nor may be proved thereby, is not to be required of any man that it should be believed as an article of faith, or be thought requisite or necessary to salvation. In the name of the Holy Scripture we do understand those canonical books of the Old and New Testament of whose authority was never any doubt in the church." It is a solid statement.