Why does SPIDER-MAN + MULTIVERSE work so well?
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- Опубліковано 28 кві 2024
- #psychology #gwen #miguel
An analysis of Gwen’s first sequence in Across the Spider-Verse will deliver an almost unmanageable volume of visual, audio, and conceptual symbolism. Only with an understanding of what Spider Man is, how the character relates to the superheroes who came before him, and how the multiverse as a worldbuilding concept blends so well with the natural meaning behind the character, can we truly appreciate the genius of this film.
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0:00 - PART 1 - Why the SPIDER-verse?
1:37 - Stan Lee gets REJECTED
3:55 - the fakeout answer...
5:14 - SUPERHERO THEORY
9:16 - Spider Verse 1
14:54 - "will you adopt me?"
18:39 - PART 2 - 5 story languages
22:03 - 1. Similarity lingo
23:12 - 2. Unnatural color filters
25:21 - 3. Upside down imagery
26:25 - 4. Belonging lingo
28:41 - 5. Communication
30:16 - Villains
32:16 - So... why SPIDER-Verse? - Фільми й анімація
If I had a nickel every time hailee steinfeld voiced a cool girl from a masterclass piece of animated media, I’d have 2 nickels. Which isn’t a lot but it’s weird it happened twice.
at least 3 if you include live action! she was a total badass in true grit
@@schnee1if we count live action than it's 4, we can't forget about her being Kate Bishop in MCU
@@schnee1 oh true grit. i was thinking Hawkeye series
If I also had a nickel everytime a bagel was used as a major plot point in a revolutionary multiverse movie, I’d have 2 nickels. Which isn’t a lot but it’s weird it happened twice.
@@toamszkozak8822she’s pretty good in Bumblebee too
So glad Spiderverse is getting the schnee treatment.
Something i picked up elsewhere: dark Spot resembles the dark Miles silhouette in his no expectations painting. It really draws a connection between Spot and Miles' inner conflict and thematically cements him as his nemisis. My prediction is in the conclusion of the last movie that hole will be filled in.
Phenomenal connection. I would not have thought of that.
This is a good take. I always just thought he looked like the bagel from EEAO
@@JonSwansonE i mean he DID get hit with a bagel in the first film...
@@saphcaleating a bagel right now. Think I could start becoming an interdimensional being?
@@saphcal If I had a nickel every time a movie about multiversal shenanigans feature a bagel as an important plot device, I’d have 2 nickels. Which isn’t a lot but it’s weird it happened twice.
The observation you had about Pavitr and Miles both doing department of redundancy department jokes ('ATM Machine' and 'Chai Tea') was great, it really emphasises that they are 'alike' in the way you laid out in the video.
Thank you for calling that out! I didn't even put that together until reading your comment!
After ATM Machine, Chai Tea, Naan Bread. I hope Beyond slips in a Sahara Desert joke somewhere just to top it all off.
@@corrinflakes9659 TIL Sahara means desert ig
earlier in the movie,the spot also says "pin number" when thats another redundancy
Tautological names and redundant acronyms are great.
On the subject of communication, another cool tiny detail that someone else pointed out that Miles’s dad misunderstood the word “salvage” for a moment when the councilor was saying that they could salvage Miles’s future. (Apparently salvage is a police code word for execution)
This is both interesting and absolutely fucking terrifying.
💀 dang
Huh, i guess this kinda explains where we filipinos got the negative meaning from when we use the word salvage
It's possible, but I think there's a more straightforward reason he reacted to her using that word. Miles has really good grades, but one B in sophomore year is making his counselor say that his situation is savable, as if one decent instead of great grade is a potentially future destroying barrier. I mean, I get it if he's applying to Princeton, but still overall the way these setups have people evaluate their situation is ridiculous, it makes sense that he had the reaction he did.
@@thegrandwombat8797 Nah I think it’s more the first thing, but that’s also a valid interpretation
Spoiler Warning:
The Score is also another form of lingo (like he mentioned). For me, the most obvious example of this is how the movie starts and ends. It starts with Gwen playing drums with the band that she doesn't really fit in with. By the end of the song, she is out of control and out of sync with her bandmates, so much so that they have already stopped playing and have to call out to her by the time she realizes. This contrasts with the final minute of the movie where she finally gets a band (i.e. group of people) that she can be in sync with and is comfortable around. Here, the score still has her drums playing but this time it matches more with the rest of the instruments and the drums end on time.
They did Gwen so well in this movie. Straight up became my favorite character
@@thenamesmalenia9732 Same. It's good that they gave her so much screen time cause if they didn't, she'd be getting so much hate (much more than she's already been getting). Her scenes, especially with her dad, were so emotional
@@thenamesmalenia9732
That final scene with her Dad was so carthatic and even made me tear up. Best scene of the film and possible film of the year.
@@machariawanjagi5353Wait since when has Gwen been hated?
@@mr.martian3578 I don't know if there's anyone in particular they're referring to, but there's definitely *certain kinds of people* who, to put it charitably, hold female characters to a much higher standard than male ones. Especially when it comes to female superheroes and other action-y characters.
Fun detail? The idea of Spiderman not being able to _"do both things"_ is hinted at earlier in the film, but with Miles' going against that rule!
When Miles is getting the cake with a written message on it that's too long? He buys *two* cakes instead of making the message shorter; he's having his cake and eating it too!
Remember, however! The cakes get Mad fucked up really bad, showing that Miles’ own perspective on things isn’t perfect either. Personally I believe that they’ll find some happy middle :)
@@meow6031
Precisely! It's important throughout the film that Miguel is purposefully antagonistic to Miles cause he sees in Miles himself, the Spiderman who wanted to have it both ways. Miguel knows how screwed up the cake(s) become in doing that, and wants Miles to recognize that responsibility.
There's so much nuance to explore in the next film and I'm glad the creatives behind Spiderverse are daring to tread these waters!
While I'd love for Miles to ultimately do both things, it's mentioned that he's being stretched too thin, and the cakes ultimately being messed up kinda prove that. Miles can't do both things, or, at least, he can't on his own or right now. What he's gotten from taking on the spider-people is confidence, but that confidence won't help him to keep things intact and whole. Sure, Miles is gonna get help from the spidey band in this scenario, but he needs to change so that he's never stretched too thin again and ruins the cake.
another thing to mention is that his mother tells him he “better be back with one cake” and i think that serves as foreshadowing for the upcoming movie.
@@newrecru1t "Miguel knows how screwed up the cake(s) become..."
did you even see Miguel's absolutely perfect cakes?
Lol dw I got your point, when you said Miguel's cakes I thought of his "cakes" 😁
I think doing a video breaking down Hobies role in the story could make a great video too! For a character with very little screen time, who's hyped up as an opposite to miles ends up being his only real ally and helps gwen self actualized. I loved his big brother role throughout the movie, and think theres a lot to explore in that.
god Hobie was so good. easily the best part of the film, imo.
I like how Hobie is so self assured.
I felt like Hobie was Gwen's "sketchbook". When Gwen sees all of Myles drawings of her it shows how much he missed her and it's this embarrassing moment for both of them.
That's mirrored by Myles meeting Hobie, their similar attitudes and appearances I think show more than Gwen having a type, but that this casual relationship with Hobie her trying to fill a Myles shaped hole in her life. And likewise, both Myles and Gwen are awkward about it but neither one addresses it. Just like the sketchbook.
YESSS PLEASEEEE. HOBIE IS MY FAVORITE AND I WOULD LOVE TO SEE A VIDEO ESSAY ABOUT HIM
I didn't particularly like Hobie the first time I saw the movie. I didn't dislike him or anything, but he didn't really catch my interest. Then I went to see it again the next day and he turned out to be my favorite of the new characters by a huge margin. I think I just needed to be able to understand wtf he was saying lmao.
Hes interesting and great, but with only around 50 seconds of screentime, I dont think theres alot to explore here...
You pretty much said everything there is to say about him in your comment.
I interpret Miles' graffiti piece from the first film a little differently: While his essay is titled "great expectations", his piece says "no expectations". I interpret it as him wanting to be seen as himself, rather than the many expectations that surround him, and other people use to try to tie him down. And he spray paints his suit black after Aaron tells him to keep on his own path, and his dad tells him that he's free to use his "spark" for whatever he wants. I think the black suit represents his acceptance of his own path as Spider-Man being his own, rather than the kind of hero all the other spider-people want him to be.
Bonus round, The Spot actually mirrors the image of this piece, taking the exact same pose after becoming a literal black silhouette with white lining. Not only is this an image showing that Miles "created" The Spot, but it shows that he's what happens when someone is truly subjected to no expectations, just like Miles wished for in his piece. Spot is treated as a background character, a joke, even when travelling the multi-verse no one really takes him seriously or expects anything of him. And this is in stark contrast to Miles claiming that it's his parents and their raising of him that have made him strong.
So fun detail: the thing with referring to adults by first names versus last names is actually a cultural/regional difference. I never referred to parents of friends or friends of parents by "Mr./Mrs./Ms. Last Name", it was always "Mr./Ms. First Name". That was standard where I live, and it's not considered a sign of disrespect, it's just how people are referred to. It might be a sign of closeness but the only people I ever called by their last names were teachers. It's interesting to think about.
Yeah it was a sign of relationship for me. My parents' friends I always called Mr./Mrs. First name, but the parents of my friends I always called Mr./Mrs. Last name. Some of my friends' parents I've gotten to know really well because of the time I spent with my friends, but I just stick to calling them by their last name even as an adult because that's how I was introduced to begin with and I'm comfortable with it
I'm surprised that anyone refers to their parents as "Mr./Mrs./Ms.". For me (Poland) it's either my mom/dad or by name and only that, no titles.
@@Gnidel I don't call my parents that, just their friends. Now that I'm an adult a lot of them don't mind if I call them just by their first names, but sometimes I still add a title just as a sign of respect since I met them when I was younger
@@UltimateTS64 Oh, sorry, I misread and didn't notice it's about parents of friends.
I think that’s exactly what it was meant to be. Gwen’s family seems like the type to teach manners and such but if it just isn’t part of their culture (literally a different universe), she would’ve never been taught that.
You may notice the spot's motivation is to fight annihilation too. He says he's significant that he's Miles's Nemesis, but Miles calls him a week. He thinks he's significant, but he's told he's not. So from then on his motivation is to be stronger to ruin Miles's life so he's not just a villain of the week anymore. There's even that parent-child dynamic there with the spot saying Miles created him. Another interesting thing is how when he finds he can travel the multiverse. He thinks this proves he's significant but when he goes to the venom dimension the person he finds is completely unimpressed by him. This prompts him to think he needs more holes, more power.
Spider punk was a real one and I hope he gets more shout outs cause he deserves it
He was the most relatable character besides Pravitr, Gwen and Miles.
The animation and story is outstanding. Still surprised how it doesn't take years to create since we're already getting a part 2.
i think it was originally ment to be one movie but they split it
@@joshuahunte2347 yeah probably
It does, that's why we had a 5 year gap after the first movie cause they split the sequel, so they worked in both at once kinda like with Infinity War and Endgame
I does take years lol. It's just they have already been working on beyond the spiderverse for a long time before across the spiderverse ever came out.
They took 4 years just to do the chase scene between miles and the other spider ppl
About the color motif, people pointed out that during the first SpiderVerse, when Miles and his original Peter meet, Miles's background changes from green/purple (Prowler's colors) to blue/red (Spider-Man's colors) symbolizing the change of his path. I wonder how much of all that was planned vs. a fun Easter egg they built upon to expand the narrative :)
YEA I always thought of the green/purple showing that the spider was from earth 42! Cuz the colours of earth 42 are green/purple :D
Also the spider that bit Miles seems to camouflage into the spray paint cans in the first movie, kinda like a chameleon. So Miles’s ‘spider sense’ colours changing reminded me of the spider camouflaging/having chameleon-like properties, fitting into the environment/surroundings..?
The chai-tea joke, I think, is for Indian (or more likely Indian American) viewers and some relatively universal thing they’ve explained to their non-Desj friends. They probably wanted to give Indians representation, but India is such a big country that you can’t make a joke that’s too specific to a certain religion, language, or region bc other Indians wouldn’t get it.
It’s like Miles ATM machine joke, but with personal connections for South Asians.
I assume NYC commonalities that can be referenced in film can be more specific since NYC is geographically much smaller even though it may be more diverse than India.
Wait there's a connection between South Asians saying ATM Machine? This is news.
Indian viewers and anyone else touched by the chai exports lol, as a Kenyan American I personally enjoyed that joke a lot as well
Although it was a joke for relatability, I appreciate how it wasn't just thrown in there, it still has a purpose because most of these jokes can flop if they are used in ineffective ways which take away from the original scene. The chai tea joke is a parallel to the ATM joke miles made as shcnee described, which gave it more layers than just a representation aspect which I love because it makes me feel like its so important, the layers give the representation a bigger impact almost (Im Pakistani).
I recall seeing an interview with Karan Soni in which he mentioned that putting that joke in was his idea--they asked him for some culturally specific suggestions.
@@lolzguyl To clarify, ATM Machine is the English language version of redundant language that's relevant to the US. Saying Chai Tea is redundant in the same way, and is a culturally relevant equivalent of the ATM Machine joke. Both Miles and Pavitr quip at people about using redundant words, each with a culturally relevant example.
I'm pretty sure the first name joke was more of a cultural thing than a sign of miles' parents not viewing teens as equals/as adults. In a lot of cultures, including Black and Latin cultures, it's seen as disrespectful to call someone's parents by their first names. It's usually only ok when the parents themselves say "oh please, just call me (first name)", but otherwise it's inappropriate. Gwen is white and grew up in a white (and i think Irish?) family, where calling parents/guardians by their first name is seen as normal, so that's probably why she made that mistake with miles' parents.
Oh it is, but it's because those cultures place a greater emphasis on the separation of people at different stages of life, relative to each other. It's a marker of adulthood and authority within that culture that excludes younger people from that role. Rio's position demands from her specific responsibilities, appearances and behaviors towards her son, but also towards her son's peers, like Gwen. In exchange, Gwen's position is that she has to use that name to show deference to Rio and recognize that Rio has to wear that role towards her.
Rio is also someone who lives in a mixed community--she is not in Puerto Rico; she is in NYC. She works outside of her community at the hospital and doesn't appear to have any issues with English proficiency as a barrier. She straight up says this when talking to their guidance councilor. Rio knows a girl like Gwen comes from a background where calling your friend's parents by their first name is normal; she knows that there's a style out there where the demarcation between adult and child is culturally less striking. She know she *could* tell Gwen "call me Rio", or handwave it, but it's part of Rio's struggle as a parent to balance that childhood protector role and that teenage exploration role. Her choosing to assert Gwen's use of a first name as disrespectful comes from the tension in the same scene---she remarks that she looks older than miles, and not like his peer; she jabs Gwen about "not stealing her little boy". Every sign Rio gets from Gwen is that this is a girl who's grown up too fast and now will make Miles grow up too fast (or has already, behind her back). So she imposes her name and asserts, no, this girl is still a child. Like Miles.
It's what makes her later decision to let Miles go so significant. She communicates her worries to Miles and in doing so closes part of the normal gap between them. She tells Miles--I've spent your life curating your world and your life so you feel like you belong. So you have the opportunity to do well. And it's layered with all these grounded concerns that Miles will be excluded or seen as "othered", or be denied opportunities. Rio says, ok, I will let you go, but now *YOU* have to be your own advocate. *YOU* have to know yourself and be confident in yourself. *YOU* will always have us supporting you (i.e. he has to remember to come home and remember where he came from), but we will not be able to be there at every moment.
And he proves her brilliantly in the climax. Like it was amazing to see and cry at that scene. As a hispanic girl to see so much of my own mother in that scene drove me to literal ugly strained crying the first time I saw the movie. It hit like a brick--the love, the protectiveness, the worry, the struggle to balance that traditional guidance and distance with integrating knowledge about the wider world around you. That attempt to push past worry and meet Miles where he was at. Honestly I could write an essay about Rio's speech.
Sidenote: There's a lot of unsaid implications here about Miles being Afro Latino specifically, even if in the story it ends up being the spider society that rejects and others him. (Honestly someone should do a Miles vs. Miguel exploration on navigating the world and Spiderman through a Hispanic lens, because there is a hispanic element and honestly a racial element here that shapes how the world views these two).
I’ve felt this whole “caring about ur potential, not u” for the longest time and have written myself some stuff about it
So when you talked about that my jaw dropped and I was so glad someone out there gets it and has shared it to the world
SPOILER WARNING!!
You are a god send for making an analysis on Spider-verse. I completely did not expect that I would be Arcaned/Infinity War-ed again because I avoided every possible social media hint or spoiler about Across the Spider-verse and the only feedback I chose to look for was whether it was good/worth watching. I filled the cliff-hanger void Arcane left with your analysis and now I'm so happy to find one of yours on ATSV 😂
Side note: I hope you could do an analysis that touches the dilemma Miles is facing. I feel like some people miss out on the how devastatingly crippling it can be to constantly get slapped with how you are a mistake/not supposed to happen and the betrayal that comes with the people significant to you knowing all of it without telling you.
i think when talking about the friendship and mentorship part, hobie is a really interesting aspect to dig into a little deeper. cuz hes a Very good antithesis to miguel and resisting the forces that want to push miles into a specific role that he fights against in "Everyone keeps telling me how MY story is supposed to go! Nah... Imma do my own thing." and hobie's "here we go" at miles getting frustrated and angry at being told to just let his dad die. Hobie almost gives off the impression of a potential for who miles could become but like all of the movie, miles is his own person. all the different choices and different experiences hes had lead him to where he is and hobie is just one possible future that he couldve turned into.
I also 110% agree with the color discussion but i think a major thing with this is also the way they handle backgrounds, especially during gwen's super emotional scenes (her dad pulling a gun on her and when they have the discussion where he finally understands and accepts her). in the first one where her dad pulls a gun on her, the backgrounds are very sharp, overbearing, and almost dominating because they are just giant blocks of color that are dichotomous. light and dark, warm and cold, etc. but when she and her dad are talking after she gets sent back home, the background colors start to literally drip and muddle and melt away. the objects become abstract lines and impressions and they fade into pastels and light colors to force your attention onto gwen and her dad. the world around them literally melts away because all that matters is that they're relationship is repaired and gwen has her home back.
also the joke about vi and gwen was funny lmao hailee steinfield did an amazing job with both roles
Anyone can be spiderman, that’s why it’s so easy to have a multiverse with this character.
This movie was so good. I was hooked from the intro scene. 🕷️ 🕷️ 🕷️
Agreed.
My personal theory on why Spider-Man works so well is because it’s always a guy, it can be anyone and the mask and premise is so broad that it can be worked around any type of person and still work. The ability to relate is the biggest strength of spidermen, there’s an average guy behind the mask and that allows kids especially to be able to think that they can be that to. That applies to people who maybe aren’t exactly a Peter Parker, a cis straight white male. A lot of people see themselves in the mask.
Not sure how to communicate my entire thought process but that’s my two cents (this is just an answer to the rhetorical question at the beginning)
Also adding to this, spiderman's origins was that he was bitten by a spider that JUST SO HAPPENS to be radioactive. The sheer randomness and how it just suddenly happens basically implies that it could happen to anyone. Power is bestowed upon Peter and he uses it for good because he was always a good person before that.
@@joganesha4151 exactly! There aren’t really any other factors like with other super hero’s, it’s pure chance and unlike a lot of other hero’s there isn’t a reason per se that they become Spider-Man, they get bitten but it’s almost always wrong place wrong time. It’s not like other hero’s being born that way or making themselves that way. Spidey probably one of the simplest origins of gaining power so that also plays into it. (Whoops yt didn’t notify me about this until now)
@@Urleastfavoriteloverboy While other superheroes could be born with superpowers or gifted through inheritance, spider-man and to an extension the entire spider multiverse is a wild card compared to other superhero origins. Not that I hate the classics of course, they have a place in fiction. Something about the uncontrollable nature of the radioactive spider basically means it's up to the writer to fill in the blanks.
You can have a spider god granting you powers, or have your spiderman fall into a vat of chemicals (Joker style), turn them into a were-spider, hell just give em A GIANT ROBOT for all I care; as long as they have the spider theme and "great power comes great responsibility", that's YOUR friendly-neighborhood Spiderman (or just Spiderman, no neighborhood included).
The “you’re juts like me” thing hit me hard because of the fact I’m trans and gay. I’m an outcast for being me no matter what. Spider-Verse is for everyone who feels like an outcast and finding your people. It really helped me when I was navigating me identity and sexuality and looking for people who understood me. And Across The Spider-Verse REALLY blew me away with how they did MORE with that idea.
As someone who was a philosophy major, and absolutely adores these movies, this video is peak perfection
I really like the analysis of the colour symbolism here but I think 'Which colours represent which emotions?' is a question getting off on the wrong foot. I think the contrast and flow between colours is more important, with the physical facts around the characters being used to establish base colours (so for example red and oranges cover Gwen's dad in the first argument because the door is there. So because that colour is fixed, to contrast it Gwen's room needs to be blue and purple). This probably didn't happen all at once in the writing but was a general idea, that was then adjusted and tweaked scene to scene, so that the flows worked against each other (and possibly to get the trans flag in there, that does seem very deliberate but might not have been part of the original concept, developing later in production). I think there's often this mythic idea that stories appear fully formed to genius creators, when in reality a lot of the finished product is compromise and second, third, fifth, hundreth (hopefully not hundreth) drafts.
Also I find the age analysis interesting here, but I'm not entirely convinced that anhiliation is a universal fear, nor that it has to be. It's worth noting that super hero comic books don't emerge all over the world, but specifically in America in a heavily industrialising context, with Superman specifically emerging as a 'man against machine' story (see the early prominence of scientific villains, industry leader villains and the use of cars on the front cover of Action Comics no. 1). Additionally, I think production explanations help explain the adult focus better. The works focus adults, because they're written by adults. While it's possible for an adult to conceptualise a super powered child, the default assumption is that 'powerful and responsible' equals ADULT. Most of the time, children's literature (of which early comics are part) aren't about what children want and need, there about what adults are prepared to make for them and give them (since adults control both the production process and children's access to money). I think this works better than positing universals because it's explains not only why comic books took the form they did, but why they appeared when they did, rather than in neolithic times (obviously I'm aware certain comparisons can be made between superheroes and mythic figures, but those comparisons are often far overstated).
I think Jewett's 'The American Monomyth' breaks down superhero comics (certainly it's been applied to them) well and Nodleman's "The hidden Adult' helps to outline why children's works often focus adult needs rather than children's ones.
I do really like the importance you give to teenage peer networks though. A lot of people overlook or delegitimise peer networks, not realising how little access teens are given to alternative forms of power. It is an access issue though, as we can see by looking at cultures or periods of history that excluded people less from public space (note, this is not always a good thing. One of these access points was child labour, and obviously unless you're rich enough to be the kid that owns property, that's a really nasty place to enter a social field from). Generally when young people are accessing public space, they can manipulate these social possibilities and resources, and peer nets become less significant.
So anyway I really liked this one. I'm a bit of an academic dork, so I'm jumpy around the phrase 'universal human [anything]' but I like the art analysis here and this is one of the more thoughtful approaches to child and teen media consumption I've seen. Most people just end up listing kids as 'dumb' or 'unsophisticated' viewers and that's really underselling how complicated child negotiation of media is. I like to joke to people about picture books and comics, that we give children two of THE MOST COMPLICATED media artefacts we have ever made immediately and then we're surprised that they don't engage with adult books (Seriously picture books require to figure out language, figure out visual language, consider how they interact with each other, consider page turns, out of frame motion, text size, text style, relationship between paratext and text, pop ups, the meaning of text placement on page. Most adult books just use written language and paratext and everything else is standardised and thus ignorable).
Sorry, this turned into a bit of an essay. You joggled some thoughts loose.
This was a really cool video.
(edit: missed the symbolism point before writing this. I wonder if that's more 'allegory' than symbolism where a meaning is imposed on top of the story. I think there's a strong argument that visual language needs to be in place first. Just like you need words before you can write, building a visual language is building the basic rule set which you'll use to convey meaning, even if the audience doesn't get all it's nuances, the fact it's a language with rules will ensure it's consistent and they'll get use to it [sort of like how people learnt to recognise outdoor shots opening scenes as meaning 'this next scene takes place inside this building' rather than as a separate scene that lasts for a couple of seconds]. I feel like this kind of language has its power in the fact that's pervasive and foundational, while an allegorical can be layered on top. To pick an example I've reference earlier, the fact Gwen's scene uses trans flag colours could have been changed, it's largely vestigal. The fact that Gwen follows a plot that's decidedly queer [fear of rejection by her dad, rejection, running away from home and coachsurfing with more financially secure, older members of a community she's found] is fundamental to the plot. So if we read these through a queer lens, the former is simply a queer symbol, while the latter shows that the language used to conceptualise the plot, is being made with queer stylistics/narratology in mind).
(edit: Sorry, that last bits a bit abstract from writing from, but I think one of the best things that can be done for writing or creating is to dig really deep into where you're writing from, it makes it so much easier to notice whne you're pulling from your own experience or that of others, and in my experience has really effected how I read media [I'm coming at it from a disability studies lens rather than queer theory, but it means often really interested in how characters move and what it would feel like to be a certain person]).
You're amazing, i love you
I hope you post this somewhere else for posterity because this little essay does not deserve to be confined to a youtube comments section haha
You could make a blog/youtube/other social media post about this. I do think it a lot that people would want to read and disuss about!
I definitely agree with your allegorical comments. In addition to your point about allegory as an additional layer, symbolism is as much created by the act of reading as it is by the author's creative process. Its looseness and fluidity is in opposition to allegory's rigidity which imposes a strict map of interpretations according to the author's intentions.
@@MrWSherwood Absolutely! I'm very much of the belief that a lot of meaning-creation happens as an interaction between the reader and writer, more than just the writer doing something (Wolfgang Iser is supposed to be good on this though I imagine he's been superceded). So the idea that allegory is the author trying to sort of reach and rigidly fit how the reader will interpret the work, while symbols are just tools we're using to guide it (heck, in its most formal sense the whole movie is symbolic, you have to put the work to recogise 'that is a person' 'that is a floor', we just get very good at assuming intent so we don't notice ourselves doing it unless it's a novel symbolic link).
I just want to eleborate because i can't get over how good it is. Everything you said about it is on point.
The use of colors in Gwen's scene with her father was like seeing my emotions be toyed with on full display. My heart was being wrenched and i knew the color and the writting were to blame but it was all happning faster than i could analyze it and it was so gut-punching i was just there in the moment with the characters.
Its kind of crazy how potent these two elements are that when coupled together, they became a nuke for my heart, but its there, and its real. Understanding the tools you have is essential to good storytelling and creating art. Notice the style in that scene feels like it was paited in watercolors or frescos. This particular look is what, in turn, gets such an emotional reaction. If you had the same script but the look was set in Miguel's world, it wouldn't have hit the same way because, visually, Miguel's world is saying something else.
Gwen's world was painted the way it was for the exact purpose of telling her exact story. The visual world of Gwen's "bleeds" and emotion is poured in. The emotions overflow because the visuals are also doing the same. And that's just addressing how the visual style works for the scene because, of course, the movie doesn't stop there. The color changes to continuesly shift how, where, and what is being said so it can be felt in the visuals.
I just can't get over that scene it needs to be used in schools to teach young writers, artists, directors, and musicians. There's something there for everyone. This whole movie is so fucking amazing at how it uses every tool in its arsenal.
Touching on that last point, I am lobbying for this film/into the spider-verse to be used in the film aesthetics and analysis class, potentially hollywood and american film but A&A feels more relevant as a subject. Especially since it has an entire week dedicated to narrative analysis and color analysis respectively.
in gwen's universe, blue represents secrets, lies, and being closed off, while pink represents openness and being truthful. when she comes back home from band practice , she is in blue, representing how she is hiding her spider man identity, but when she hugs her dad, they are both shown in pink. when she has to reveal her identity, she is in pink, showing how she is being honest with who she really is, but we can see that her dad is still in blue as he upholds his cop identity. when they have their speech towards the end, there is a mix of warm colors showing how they are being open with each other.
Hey Schnee (or anyone reading this, I’d love to hear your thoughts too), I was super curious what you thought of Miguel O’Hara himself, especially in terms of “belonging” and “annihilation” like you discussed in the video.
For one thing, Ohara absolutely fears annihilation - his whole backstory, crusade, everything is about how they have to protect the canon or entire universes could be annihilated. That’s why he hates anomalies like Miles so much, he feels like they are a sort of manifestation of the void left by his family being annihilated.
BUT I also found it funny that Ohara actually IS an anomaly, since he replaced his doppelgänger in another dimension (which thus led to the whole dimension being destroyed). Now, sure, he didn’t KNOW what he was doing… but neither did Miles, whom Miguel still hates nonetheless.
Also, some other details that highlight Ohara’s lack of belonging are his lack of a spider sense, his need to inject himself with a serum (though it’s not explained, I imagine he needs the serum to even have spider powers), his ability to sacrifice an innocent life just for the sake of “the canon” (i.e. trading lives, which no Spider-Man really ever does), and like you said, Miles questioning are you sure you’re even a spider-man?”
So I said more than I first intended, but I really wanted to ask you this question: do you feel like Miguel O’Hara is a foil to Miles, or a mirror? In many regards (age, motives, family, etc etc etc), he’s the ANTITHESIS to Miles. But in some OTHER ways (accidental anomaly, love for family/desire to prevent more tragedies, struggle to belong) O’Hara almost feels like a Miles gone down the wrong path. But if you (or any other reader/commenter) have any thoughts, I’d LOVE to hear them!!!
This is so well written
Yeah, I think Miguel hates Miles because he sees him as being dangerous in a way that echoes Miguel's own disastrous mistakes. He doesn't hate Miles in spite of the fact that Miles is something of a mirror to him, that's exactly what makes him feel so strongly.
Your annihilation interpretation not only makes perfect sense, but I just looked up the soundtrack and wouldn't you believe it, the first track is literally called "Annihilate", it starts playing when they're first visiting HQ
oh cool!!
Annihilate plays when Miles is following Gwen to the Spot's apartment.
The "multiverse story IS the family story" thing is so good. This is what ties everything up for me in Everything Everywhere, making it my favorite movie of all time.
In graphic design they teach us that when you design ANYTHING (stories, images, music, projects, etc...) the 3 main questions you have to answer are "What it is?", "How it works?" and "Why it exists in the first place?". Those three questions are the key to defining what are you gonna make? Because it's not only studying your background, story and options available at your disposal, it's also about your limitations and how do you adjust to them.
The *What?* defines what it is and it is NOT. The *How* as Schnee said, are the materials and base of the whole thing to work, & finally the *Why?* is the fuel of the whole thing, Why are you doing this in the first place? Why would someone want to buy this product or service you're offering? and Why this NEEDS to happen?
There is a lot to unpack in the idea of Spiderman being the age of a sidekick, but getting the front cover. I have no Psychology background whatsoever, but the insistence on the Canon Events, Uncle Ben's death being the one chosen for the example, may be something. I mean, the teenage eventually grows into an adult, but Spiderman is SHOVED into it. He's always been SpiderMAN, because he has to be the man from that moment on (and before he wasn't a hero).
A wonderful video, I like your analysis a lot.
When I left the theater, one of my first thoughts was "I can't wait to see what schnee has to say about this masterpiece". I'm not disappointed !
While this video was a flawless analysis on why Spiderverse succeeds as a story of adolescence and how it uses those subtle languages to tell it's story, I felt like it was missing something, and it clicked at the end when you said you weren't huge into comic book culture. Without that knowledge, you would miss that the Spiderverse trilogy as a whole is a meta narrative about Spiderman stories (which makes sense, the directors, Lord and Miller, are most known for their work on the Lego movies, which were a meta narrative on why we love toys like Legos as both children and adults). That also explains why at the end, you said you felt this was intentional symbolism, which I agree with to a degree. I don't think the writers were directly wrestling with the concept of annihilation, but they absolutely were asking themselves what the character of Spiderman means, hence the movies being meta narratives, they wrestle with the concept of Spiderman itself, specifically with WHO can be Spiderman. If you don't know, Miles Morales the character has always had controversy surrounding him, especially when he was first introduced in the comics, that he wasn't REALLY Spiderman. Of course, a lot of that was bad faith arguments rooted in racism and the fact that he felt like a replacement for Peter Parker, but a lot of it was also about how Miles's story didn't "feel" like a "Spiderman story". I think for a much clearer example of that, let's look at the MCU's Spiderman, who had a similar controversy to comicbook Miles in that many "fans" complained that he didn't feel like Spiderman, but specifically cited that his story wasn't nearly as tragic as other Spiderman stories. MCU Spidey barely touches on Uncle Ben's death, he never lost a love interest, never lost a mentor figure close to him up until Iron Man's death, and got everything handed to him relatively easily. You can argue about how valid those criticisms are on their own, but the point is that they were so vocal that the newest MCU Spiderman film (funnily enough, the one that plays with the multiverse the most and has MCU Spiderman meeting other Spidermen who have had those tragedies in their stories) constantly beats him down, forces him to grapple with the deaths of multiple figures in his life, and has him sacrifice the relationships he has with every surviving person close to him. And then swings in Across the Spiderverse, which explicitly askes "does a Spiderman story have to be defined by tragedy? Can't Spiderman be an aspirational hero without all this trauma?" The glue that holds the movie together thematically is that question, and challenging the beliefs of those critics, the ones who think every Spiderman story has to have certain CANON EVENTS to match the original Peter Parker story they can't let go of. It obviously ties into Miles going against what everyone is telling him to be like and do and forging his own story, but it also ties Gwen in by challenging if she has to be defined by her tragedies, if she has to keep herself closed off in fear of losing someone else close to her. And it's even more obvious with the two opposing philosphies of Spiderman 2099 (Miguel O'Hara) and Spiderpunk (Hobie Brown). Miguel embodies those original critics of Miles, believing that he can't ever be Spiderman and that every Spiderman has to experience certain events in order to be Spiderman, but Hobie (true to both his original comics breaking a lot of the conventions of the time for Spiderman and his inspirations in anti-establishment/anarchist punk culture) pushes Miles and Gwen to tell their own stories and to give the metaphirical middle finger to "canon events". Hell, this even extends to the Spot in how he tries to be a classic arch-nemesis for Miles and how later it's foretold he will be the reason for a canon event in Miles's story (his dad dying), but also in how Spot also mirrors Miles in that he was always seen by comic fans as a "villain of the week", not a serious threat for Spiderman. So the movie goes against that belief by turning him into a serious threat and taking this joke character dead seriously. This comment has gone on way longer than I thought, but to bring it back to your original video, the reason why multi verse stories work so well for Spierman in particular is that the true defining feature of Spiderman is that he is someone anyone can see themselves as, as Stan Lee said, "anyone could be under the mask". There's no certain race or certain trauma that Spiderman has to have, he just has to be both relatable and aspirational to the reader. The multi verse allows Marvel to fully show that, to show not just readers like Peter, but readers like Miles or Gwen or Pavitr or Jess or Penni that they could be Spiderman too and can tell their superhero stories however they want to. To cap this off (again, sorry for writing my own essay in response and making you read this damn thing), I know your video essay was made as writing advice and not just to analyze this as a Spiderman movie, if I had to turn this into writing advice, it's that you should never feel like you have to fill out a checklist when writing, especially if you are working with established property, whether you get the chance to write for pre existing characters and settings, writing fanfiction, or just using popular tropes, it's good to challenge preconceived notions and decontruct something in order to tell the story you want to actually tell.
Thanks for the context (note to you for next time: paragraph breaks! 😅), like you said this layer of meaning isn't something I had enough background to pick up on. What you're saying at the end is definitely good advice, and it reminds me of something I heard from Max Landis. To paraphrase, he said his father was helping him with a project when he was a kid and said, "Here's what you need to understand. Tell me: how do you kill a vampire?" Max started listing off methods he knew of: fire, stake through the heart, decapitation -- and his dad cuts him off, "No. Vampires don't exist. You can kill them however you want, as long as its good storytelling."
It's so crazy, you just explained like three different themes in this movie that I could probably count three other themes in. The fact that the story is crammed full of themes and symbols and Easter eggs and characters and universes and it still works somehow without feeling convoluted and inaccessible dense is amazing! Spectacular! Marvelous! Ultimate!
Miles' powers are also literally worked into this. In the first movie when the "annihilation" aspect took over when he felt like he didn't belong, he would turn invisible unconsciously. On the flip side, whenever he believed in himself, and rejected the idea of not belonging, is when he would use his spark ability, which is a super obvious, bright, and loud thing that everyone notices.
The "Vi" hiccup had me howling. Also, thank you for all the hard work you put into your videos, schnee. It does not go unnoticed or unappreciated!
This is not even a Spider-Man movie analysis. This is a teenager's psychiatry video. All of this is so amazing to hear as a 15-year-old and as someone who absolutely loves your videos. Your channel is simply amazing, so thank you!
It was so cool to pick out all of your tips and rules in this video after watching your analysis video, you do amazing work!
ooh yess glad to see someone notice 🙏
Totally! I feel like every new video is both perfectly good on it's own, but also part of a journey
What I feel like is not talked about enough is, how the whole movie is literally shown in the beginning. You don’t know that until you rewatch it. Literally so insane
I've been waiting for this video!!! So nice to see it, this movie is definitely worth discussing. Probably the best movie I've ever seen in cinema. I love how despite the main focus of why it's so good being the animation, you can have such a deep and meaningful discussion without touching on the technical stuff at all.
That opening scene (and in general, almost every scene in Gwen's world) was fricking amazing and undoubtedly my favourite scene of the movie. The amazing animation and style and the visual storytelling through it are just an absolute masterclass, and this video helped me understand even better why it feels so right.
Btw, glad I'm not the only one that thought about that last point. Possibly my favourite animated movie and my favourite animated series have a main character played by Hailee Steinfeld, now isn't that some impressive filmography
This & your Ekko video have got to be some of my favorite analyzations on UA-cam.
When you mentioned how people disregard what spiders are capable of & how they help with pests, claiming they don't belong because of what they are, & connected that to the teenage experience, I was wowed. You always find ways to make us think about things we probably wouldn't have otherwise considered.
What you said about over-interpretation & symbolism reminded me of another cool UA-camr called CJ The X, who made a video "Stranger Things & The Meaning of Life" which delved into this concept in detail, citing writer, political activist, & philosopher Susan Pontag on over-analyzing. It's really interesting.
But I don't think it's a bad thing to search for meaning in the media we consume. If that's how we connect to & enjoy art, interpretation can be good. And it makes for awesome videos like this.
This video gave me a new appreciation for JJ Jamesons roll in the greater Spider-Man mythos - he’s the counterbalance to the adult world accepting Spider-Man for who he is. He’s that acknowledgment of the barrier still existing even as Spider-Man slips past it. And it comes from one of the most important things that allows Spider-Man to do that: his anonymity. I never really considered all that until now.
Dangit Schnee I’m already tryin to finish an animatic now I am physically obligated to draw “Are we still spiders” 😭
One of the biggest ideas I draw upon is the Erikson's Identity crisis as a teenager and how we strive for identity during adolescence. Super heroes, who invoke various controlled identities that we can latch onto, is something everyone enjoys
Amaaaazing video! I'm so obsessed with this movie. Maybe we can make it a topic in a monthly video chat?
When you compared ITSV with Arcane it made me remember when you were talking about how Arcane manages so many characters without being overwhelming (because they are all dealing with the same kind of crisis). I think it's similar with spider-verse. All the main spider characters are dealing with the same problems: losing a loved one, not fitting in, rebelling against authority, etc.
I think it's important to note that the Spider-man that Lee and Ditko envisioned was never a teenager for more than a single issue. He was out of high school but the end of his origin story-- it wasn't until much later, with Ultimate Comics and Marvel Adventures that Pete stayed as a teenager (which worked much better in Marvel Adventures than it did with Ultimate, even if Ultimate was more successful financially and critically). Spider-man is just down to earth, he's just like us, in a way that no hero is. Being a teenager isn't a part of that, but being young, I think, was always the intention for Lee and Ditko. Which isn't even to say an older Spidey can't work either, because Peter B. remains relatable as well. Young and struggling is just the easiest way to tell these stories. The mentor figure as Pete instead of, say, Iron Man, works so much better for keeping a character relatable and understandable.
Pausing 4:51 seconds in to say this video is A LOT more awesome than I thought it would be.
I’m expecting a simple walkthrough of Spiderman I can watch while eating breakfast and now here am I exploring comics history, philosophy, anthropology. This is great!
Your video essay was really helpful.
It addressed many frustrations I had with the film. Many scenes on my first watch I thought were gratuitous and too long so I sat for 2 hours with a loathing frustration in the theatre.
The “will you adopt me” was cleared up nicely. It was honestly one of biggest things I couldn’t figure out after rewatching twice.
Just want to say as someone who aims to enter animation and screenwriting, I appreciate your content. It helps to be able to look at something fresh and engaging because I learn a lot more about character and scene composition.
Ahh! I love it. (Favorite UA-camr award goes to Schnee)
Growing up, Spider-Man was always my favorite Superhero. I think the Spider-Man theme hits this note of coming to age as a teen into the real world in a way that very few other hero stories do. My first comment to the friend a watched that movie with was “there is no way they could have told that with any other hero.” It very nearly brought me to tears.
Also. I really appreciate the bit of foreshadowing that helps introduce ‘canon events’ (Miles’ counselor “you can’t have your cake and eat it too,” Mike’s taking two cakes to his dads party and ruining both, and Pavitr “I can do both.”) I wonder how much of this is foreshadowing for the next movie vs foreshadowing for the introduction of “canon events”.
Thoughts?
You just made me realize a story language thing I'm using without realizing. Character's names and how they all interact with people's names, which ties into one of my story's themes being identity. Thank you. You came up randomly in my UA-cam feed and I am grateful for it. I adored this video essay.
Finally, the most intuitive movie reviewer finally puts his hat in the ring.
The joke where you called Gwen “Vi” made me laugh so hard because I literally had just finished rewatching Arcane when I saw this movie for the first time, so the first 20 minutes were me going “ITS GWEN ITS GWEN ITS GWEN-“
What a masterpiece ! (both the video and the movie) ❤
Seen so many analyses of this movie lately, all discussing variations of similar praises. This here is the reason this channel is amazing: it breaths about 20 new layers of appreciation for something you already knew was great, but could never explain why.
Really strong analysis here especially with the color language. I've seen ITSV idk how many times and I never cued in on Miles saying "Can I return it if it doesn't fit" reflecting on how he feels out of place even though it seems so obvious. I guess whenever a cameo comes on screen in most movies it feels like we're supposed to put our brain aways but the spider-verse films want you glued to the details.
bro, I came here for a good story writing course, I go away with some therapy. Great shit
My favorite story/character breakdown channel and one of my favorite animated franchises? yes pleaseeee
I hope you'll give us a parent focused video, breaking down the different aspects/phases of parenthood covered in the movie.
Also, a Miguel video would be fire. People are are walking away thinking he's creating a Spider Cult and manipulating otger Spider-Men to make himself feel better, when that's clearly not the case...
How do you see the character?
@@schnee1 I see him as a hero that is desperate and traumatized, but is compartmentalizing and truly started to embody the "Great Responsibility" part of the phrase.
I've read up on his comics, and his life already sucked much more than the normal Spider-Person; especially since he had no good parental figures in his life. The movie added to that by giving him a "daughter" (maybe she's replacing his main daughter, who already died?), and having her death be a result of his actions. The movie, with it's focus on parenting, has an antagonist be a parent that believes he killed his child, and is trying to make sure others don't make that same mistake.
There's fear and projection of his self-hatred onto Miles. Him questioning Miles' identity as Spider-Man is essentially him reprimanding the more naive and carefree version of himself from the previous movie (the end credits scene).
Honestly there's a lot to unpack, even from a meta sense. Miguel and Miles are both the heirs to Peter's legacy after he died. Miguel artificially made himself a Spider, via a botched experiment; so he's the least Spider-Man of them all, yet he's the leader.
From a story standpoint, he's a scientist that figured out dimensional travel. The speed at which his people dealt with the quantum hole in Mumbattan, implies that they've dealt with this before many times. Hell, his algorithm and protocols means that he's seen enough to recognize patterns and have trial & error for testing hypotheses. Meaning he retroactively came to the conclusion that his actions destroyed a reality. So while there is trauma and grief, there's also legit reasoning to his methods and thought process.
Then, while he could be dismissed as an unreliable narrator, Peter B has clearly known him for a long time (far longer than he knew Miles). Since before Miguel destroyed that universe. That means Peter B has been there through everything, and knows Miguel isn't lying. This gives the antagonist far more credibility than Miles.
He's also still capable of feeling sympathy, as he did with letting Gwen in despite viewing her as a liability (which she was, because she abandoned her mission and let the Spot operate unsupervised) and when he was the only one willing to actually tell Miles the truth, while his friends waffled about it (including Hobie, dancing around the subject). He still prioritizes saving civilians, given his Vulture fight.
Sorry for the essay lol. However they did a lot with him quickly, and he's still got another movie to explore more. With the movie making him more credible than Miles and the constant jabs at "being able to do both", the conclusion is being set up to be one no one can really guess.
Across the Spiderverse is the perfect Progressive/Woke film. Great representation, animation, music, characters, and story!! We need more movies like this, not checklist movies.
Love that in this film, they turned the initial reaction of some Spiderman Fans when Miles was introduced into a plot. "Not my Spiderman" they said.
Miles was never supposed to be Spiderman but he did, and for me, that makes him the Best Spiderman. Can't wait for the finale!
The reason spiderman + multiverse works is because it could be anyone underneath the mask. I think i saw a quote from stan lee once that said that was what he and steve ditko were trying to emulate when they created the character. They wanted readers to imagine themselves as spiderman. Spider-verse just takes that to its logical end. It's also why there are so many "spider-sonas" but no one makes identities of themselves as other heroes.
Meh I've seen a lot of Iron Man personas
Symbolism can be detrimental to a story if it's clumsily applied, but I do think an important step of writing past the fundamentals has to do with successfully incorporating themes and allegories (and your Arcane videos have done a lot to help me understand this!). These exist in a similar range of subtext and non-literal interpretations, and our ability to identify them in other stories or incorporate them into our own is based on our prior encounters with other media and story tropes.
I think one of the first steps of theme-and-allegory literacy is kneejerk criticism based on a conviction of our own genre-savviness, feeling smug because we can predict what's going to happen, because we've seen something like it before. But nothing is original, and after we get over congratulating ourselves for noticing these elements we can start to question if and how and why they suit the PARTICULAR story they're in. Why does one story's allegory for cutthroat corporate exploitation feel natural and even incisive, while another's feels bland, shallow, unsuccessful?
Mainly it's in the execution, the HOW, and as you say the writing has to be good enough to stand up on its own. Good theming pervades every part of the story, so it should all work together toward that coherent idea. If you want the themes to be strong, anyway.
Given how Hobie felt at first like a rival only to become a rebellious ally in dire straits, I'm interested in how he blithely calls Spot's anomaly "a metaphor for capitalism". I suppose that's because as an opponent of capitalism, that's the thing Hobie sees as an annihilative threat? Maybe there's something there about interpretation being informed by the lens of the viewer.
Anyway! Great video as always! Thank you for sharing!
I've never sat down to one of your videos and cried before schnee, but here I am at 5am in the morning, and it's because you've just nailed down the greatest of fears that's plagued me all my life. I've had this ever since I was old enough to be in middle school, I don't suppose I know exactly why, but I have always had the fear that my life would ultimately amount to nothing in the end, not because I wouldn't be remembered or that I wouldn't accomplish anything worthwhile or be able to do what I wanted to do with my life, but that, it'd just be one day I go poof and stop existing. Funny thing to be afraid of when it's a natural part of life, and it will happen to everyone, but for some reason, the idea that one day no matter how much I may want to stay in this state of being, this, existence, one day it might just cease to continue, is just something that puts me in existential and immediate dread. My fear has a specific flavor because it comes with a twinge of wavering faith, I was raised christian, I go to christmas services, but it's been the longest time since I regularly attended, more so because of inner denomination politics, but that doesn't matter right now, the point being, I was raised to think that death is just another path, and that it won't be the end, but all my life, at the same time I was being raised with this mentality of heaven hell life after death, I always seemed to be asking myself at one time or another, what if there's just nothing there? Not in a manner of asking whether this whole christianity actually matters, but more of as, what if I literally just fade to black and it's all done, no awareness, no void, no consciousness no nothing, total oblivion, absolute loss of self, and then I won't have thoughts or memories of my life, it'll be like I was essentially wiped away, and for all intents and purposes at that point, it'll be like I've never existed at all, cause once your memories of your life, once they go, and once there's no more self consciousness, is there really anyway to say a person ever existed if they don't even have the memories, let alone the self awareness to say they did
But then, as I continued watching, I kept crying, because now I finally feel like I know what I need to do to finally put that fear behind me, and in all honesty, I think I'm already a good chunk of the way down that path without even realizing it, growing up I was always the little child of my family, all my siblings grew up to get great scholarships and work to become physicists like our dad, me, I was always the black sheep, I was always singled out and clearly made sure of my own uniqueness, not through any measure of malice from my siblings or bad parenting, yet I was on my own and almost felt like an after thought when it came to the things I loved doing. I hate math, I can do it pretty well, but I hate it to my core, same with physics, so I grew into being more of my own person, first with being isolated, and then through finding what I enjoyed doing truly, and looking back on it now, I feel like I did try to validate myself by finding other people like me, similar hobbies, hardcore gamers, in the same field of study as me, but at the same time, I don't feel like I actually succeeded in trying to do it that way, cause I never found anyone who I quite meshed with, everyone it seemed always were just into the games I was into, or was just into ranting about movies like I was cause we happened to be talking about the same one, or liked the field I pursued in college simply because we were in the same program. It wasn't until actually 2 months ago when I actually found someone who I totally meshed with right as I was graduating college, and even then as elevating and euphoric as it was to finally make friends with someone I didn't feel socially awkward around and was like me, I asked myself, did it actually matter that much anymore. On the one hand, yes I desperately need to start making new friends, I've been friends with people more online in the past 3 years than I have with people in my general vicinity, but on the other hand, I don't feel like I need this new friend as much now I feel a younger me would've relished in our shared dissimilar to the norm non identities. It's certainly not the endgame, but where I am at now, it's a good start, but seeing you talk about it most definitely visualize and put a name to my problem schnee, thank you
I like that you brought up the redundancy jokes, because they we so intentional in how they were used. The first fight with Spot doesnt start until Miles makes the ATM joke, the flow of Pavitr's backstory is interrupted by the chai tea joke, and they make another one later fighting Spot in Mumbattan about na'an. I walked away certain that those moments had to mean something, but I just couldn't quite figure it out.
Edit: Spelling mistakes
Thank you for making this video. I'm 16, and I better understand why I feel the way I feel. Whether you meant to or not, this video puts being a teenager into a perspective I haven't seen before. I've been watching your content since you started uploading and this video is different. This channel transformed my interest in story telling, into an affinity for it. I will remember the impact that this channel has made on me. I hope you see this schnee.
im so glad you made a video on this film
I always thought that the reason Spider-Man adapts so well to multiverse stories is because (as into the spider-verse proved) anyone can be Spider-Man, because he's supposed to be relatable, he's supposed to be the underdog, and he just happens to wear a full body suit, so anyone can see themselves behind the mask.
I love the way Schnee analyzes things it helps me with my writing so much
Your vids are always so fun and help me understand the writing of books/films more.
I loved the theme of “having your cake and eating it too” as an undercurrent in Miles’ motivation. He wants to be able to be Spider-Man AND defy the canon… & I feel like there’s a lot to that. I can’t wait for the third movie to be the best superhero movie ever!!
I've never watched any Spiderman material and now I'm interested in this one.
you need to write a satmar spiderman (id read it!)
I haven’t touched any Spiderman content (no comics, no games, no shows, nothing) besides the two Spiderverse movies, and they’re still some of my favorite films. Definitely check them out, the story is super accessible to “outsiders” like us lol
@@schnee1 Too traumatized atm
Dang this was a banger of an analysis. A bit embarrassed at how they point out the use of color pallettes with Gwen. I noticed some, but you really covered how they used it all throughout Gwen's world. pointing out the concept of annihilation and existence throughout the movie isn't something I really picked up. So many good stuff here discussing one of the most beautiful movie franchises
Been waiting for this!
I was subconsciously aware of the colour saturation when I watched it, but your analysis was perfect. I also found it interesting when you were talking about 'belonging' lingo and showing the clips of Peter B Parker and Mayday how their colours were always in sync ❤
I always love seeing your videos, Schnee.
Your ethos and goal for explaining the "how" stage of writing is really unique and I'm glad you're fleshing it out.
Showing those example scenes to show the writers were carefully constructing intent and connection is the type of stuff I find really useful
This video is pretty amazing, not just as a Spiderman/Superhero/Movie analysis, but more as a psychological analysis/interpretation of the coming-of-age process and period.
I love this video, this helps my vision building prossess so much better. All the ways you explain building a story universe with themes and conflicts with beats and colors is just eye opening, I also love the analysis of symbols with colors, you gave me a brief look into that thought this month, but this just flushes that thought out in better detail.
This is probabvly the most "achedemic" video ive seen about the spiderverse ive ever seen.
I love your analysis bro its very insightful
i seriously can't think of another person who makes such in depth, though-provoking essays on this website. im constantly surprised when watching these because you always bring up something i never previously gave thought, in contrast to other essays, which are usually very predictable in terms of direction.
schnee never disappoints🥰
Never.
Wow this is such a masterful breakdown! Awesome job
bro you described the teenage experience PERFECTLY, thank you for that
Dude I've been a fan of your channel for a while but just found this video and holy crap, this is genuinely the best analysis I've seen. I am literally leaving this comment here so I can reference this video in my future writing❤ thank you for making this!!!
I knew you were going to make a video about this amazing movie :) i cant wait
this is the BEST analysis of this movie i have ever seen. thank you so much for making this video
Thanks! As always brilliant analysis!
This was an amazing piece, well done!
YESS! I was hoping Schnee would do A video like this!
Your videos are always SO GOOD!
Dude I swear your videos are like collage level stuff when it comes to analyzing the writing, thank you so much!!!
Cant forget that finale from the Animated Series from the 90's, which im pretty sure is the earliest "Spider-Verse" event where alternate Spider Men meet up to take on multiversal threats
Always great, and insightful!
An interesting point right out the gate, you approached the question “what need does a superhero movie satisfy?” With the assumption that the viewer is putting themselves into the position of the superhero character. I haven’t experienced that at all in the classic superhero movies you were showing on screen. I was thinking of it as a third person thing. So to answer “what need does a superhero movie provide?” I thought of the idea that someone is great enough to solve any of the impossible problems. But completely in third person. I wasn’t thinking it would give me significance, it gives someone else significance.
When I saw your take on the framing, I thought a bit further into that difference of perspective. I realized that I can actually see myself in a superhero movie if it’s featuring women as leads that I actually related to, and then I could see the first person perspective you were taking. Rather than the more distant way that I engage with most movies that don’t have characters I relate to.
Until just a few years ago, superhero movies were only very abstractly relatable for me. I had to actively find ways to relate to the characters as people but I never actually saw myself in those characters. Then I realized that a large part of the reason I so adore spiderverse is because having Gwen as a strong co-lead (with young queer subtext) gave me a character to see actually myself in for the first time. It’s similar to when the first Wonder Woman came out, but I still didn’t relate to her as much as I do to Gwen. I don’t have to jump through any mental hoops to relate to her, I realized that I was watching the movie and sort of stepping into her character automatically. Which is the first time that’s happened to me for an action/superhero movie… Yeah there are a few other women led superhero movies, but a lot of them are functioning as accessories to some guy’s plot rather than being actual leads or are too flat to even feel like an actual character. That’s likely why I love animated shoes like arcane and haven’t felt attracted to the marvel superhero movies much lately.
When looking at these broad starting questions, I think it’s worth thinking about the limitations of our own lens and wonder “Is this perspective im using really a universal lens?”
Because what I described is only the jump from a man’s view to a woman’s view. Imagine all the other jumps in perspective there are when looking at these questions. I think when we approach these broad questions, it’s worth it to think of a diverse approach :)
Not trying to be preachy or anything, I just found it interesting to think about and I wanted to give you my perspective on it :)
I'VE BEEN WAITING SO LONG FOR THIS ANALYSIS FROM SCHNEE
THANKS SM BRO
holy shit its nearly 40 minutes
This guy NEEDS more subscribers, these videos are incredible!
Great video! You always make my mind explode!
I acctually needed to hear this
You know that scene at the very end where Gwen is standing on that one roof with her little spider band that she recruited, and she’s talking about how she always wanted to join one but never fit in, so she made a new one?
Well, I just thought it was cool that aside from the dialogue they also drove the idea of finally belonging and leading home with the background music. Like, that Spider-Man leitmotif plays during that scene (yk the one that plays right after the what’s up danger scene when Miles takes off his mask and catches his breath? And the one that plays whenever spider people either do something triumphant, or together, or (usually) both? That one) but with a minor difference, and thats the drums playing in the background, which may or may not be the same rhythm as what Gwen played in the beginning.
Regardless, the presence of drums in the motif clearly symbolizes that this is sort of Gwen’s triumph, it’s a testament to *her* involvement-but it also has music. This is in direct contrast the beginning of the movie, where we also see that connection between drums and Gwen Stacy, but it’s just the drums, it’s just her, no other music-no band. Here it changes though, as the motif that essentially unites all our spidey protagonists (in this franchise) plays along with her, it symbolizes this union, she’s no longer playing alone, and because it’s essentially the same motif sans the drums (as in no one else is meddling with it, you don’t hear Hobie’s guitar, or someone else’s leitmotif, just drums) it highlights that she’s the game changer, she’s the one leading this piece changing up the norm-it solidifies the fact that this is her band (that she’s making her existence known by her own merit-through the individuality of the drums-but that she still found a place to belong, or rather made one).
I’m not sure if I explained that well or if I’m right but oh well ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ worth a shot
Fantastic analysis as usual! Tugging at one semi-jokey thread in the video, the presence of the Two Hailees in Spider-Verse and Arcane is one of those funny coincidences that's sort of easy to explain on the one hand (who better to play these types of quippy badass young women than Hailee Steinfeld?), and still sort of beautifully and hilariously serendipitous on the other hand.
But on a deeper level, I think there's an interesting video to be made comparing Vi and Gwen as characters. One could be super reductive (the way I just was) and simplify them to quippy badasses, but there's a lot of really interesting distinctions between them that illustrate the differences in theme, worldview, and purpose behind their respective stories. Like just the fact that Arcane is fundamentally structured as a tragedy whereas Spider-Verse is structured as a coming-of-age story leads Vi and Gwen in such different directions in and of itself.
...Also, all that aside, how fucking lucky are we to have both Spider-Verse and Arcane essentially back to back as animation gamechangers that are also both incredibly intricately assembled and thematically rich exemplars of storytelling-with-intention?
Edited to add: To expand on that thought a little bit, one of the core themes of the Spider-Verse films is the idea that "anyone can wear the mask" - i.e., the choice to be a hero is exactly that, a choice, one that anyone can make. Spider-Verse is an aspirational story about self-determination, and ATSV expands on that by showing how Miles and Gwen can not only choose who they want to be, but in doing so, break through the very narrative constraints that the rest of the world (multiverse) is attempting to force onto them. Arcane, by contrast, tells the story of the exact opposite - it's a classical tragedy about how, no matter what the characters do, they are trapped within a world whose cogs are far too big from them to break and whose underlying inertia will drag them to an inevitable conclusion. They're a fascinating pair of stories to compare and contrast, equally brilliant but so fundamentally opposite to each other.
This video is so good at explaining things about me that I havent realized yet that Im scared that If I watch this thing fully Im gonna be unable to grow up like everyone else.
Great job bro
Tank you so much for putting it out in one part