Who Did CRAZY Better?
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- Опубліковано 5 гру 2021
- #jinx #harleyquinn #arcane
DISCLAIMER: This analysis of Harley Quinn is purely based on Suicide Squad (2016) and Birds of Prey (2020), not talking about any of the other iterations of the character in comics, cartoons, and games. (Similarly, this is most about Arcane Jinx, not pre-Arcane League lore Jinx.)
I think most people are pretty harsh when it comes to the Suicide Squad franchise (and I am too), but they did do SOMETHING super right when it came to Harley. Overall, Arcane is just outstanding in all categories as usual...
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- JD_Schnee
- jd_schnee
Harley was created by and admired by people who don't really get psychology. They see "crazy" as being its own thing and seeing it consist of randomness or destructive behavior and thats it. Jinx was created by people who understand the different conditions, where they come from, and how they impact you.
Right from the start of the show, Powder has anxious attachment disorder and we see the traits of this again and again. She CLINGS to her sister, always hiding behind her, running up and slamming into her to hug her after she's been gone, because being separated from her is giving her intense anxiety and being reunited calms her. She feels dependent on her sister and sees her almost as a parental figure. She never displays this sort of affection or attachment to Vander, she can exist without him around her just fine, but she NEEDS her sister to be in proximity of her at all times. This helps solidify why she wants to go off with her all the time, she wants to be with her, she wants to help her, she wants to prove herself to her. Whenever Vi leaves her, it is traumatic for her because some part of her feels like Vi will never come back. When Vi went to go save Vander and left her behind, it did two horrible things to her. The first was the separation anxiety of Vi no longer being around her and willfully leaving her behind, and the second was Vi essentially told her that she wasn't good enough to go. That "Youre not ready" line cut her deep because it confirmed all her fears and doubts about herself that she really wasn't good enough to go with their crew or be a part of her family and she was so unworthy that now her sister was leaving her behind. She broke down and started destroying her own creations, which is a characteristic of disorganized attachment disorder who often destroy their own toys. The whole thing was traumatic for her. She was already broken before the show even started because of the death of her parents.
This also explains why she LAUNCHED herself at Silco after Vi left her, the same way she used to launch herself at Vi. She was desperate and alone, looking for anything and anyone that would give her attention. She lost her anchor, she had been abandoned, all of her fears realized and came true. From that moment on, she needed Silco. She craved his attention and his approval and his acceptance. And, to his credit, Silco actually gave it to her. He was incredibly patient with her, only raised his voice to her once and that was when she went to piltover alone and blew up a building and murdered a bunch of police, but even then he forgave her. He gave her exactly what she wanted and needed and that was unconditional acceptance and love. He did not care what she did and he did not care who she hurt or if she made mistakes, he was always on her side. He also made her one of the leaders of his organization that showed he had trust and confidence in her ability. Vi made a lot of platitudes saying basically "one day your stuff will work" and to a child in her state, it sounds more like "one day you might be good enough", but Silco never criticized her, and he actually gave her power because he genuinely trusted her. He showed far more trust in her than any of her old family members did, even to the point of letting her stab him in the fucking eye with his magic juice needle.
After she accidentally killed her adopted family she developed a new condition: schizophrenia. She started hearing voices and having visual hallucinations. The voice she heard most often was Milo, the brother that was always picking on her and criticizing her. The voice is always telling her negative things. Seeing her family members are part of her visual hallucinations, but she also occasionally sees hallucinations of real people that are mocking her, such as when she saw Caitlin with devil horns and grinning at her. Whether visual or auditory, she is being pushed to anger and violence by them.
That scene where she is fighting the girl with Pink hair that reminds her of her sister also has her go into a PTSD flashback. This is probably the first time she had an encounter she had with someone that reminded her so much of her sister and she gets caught in this moment in a flashback. As soon as it breaks and she realizes it wasnt her sister, she immediately kills.
In a weird way, Silco actually helped her attachment disorder by being a loving father figure to her. He gave her confidence in herself that she never had with her previous family. He put his faith in her. Gave her responsibility. Really built her up. He was a loving father, just not a good one, because without setting any boundaries or limitations, that is part of why she was as extreme as she was. He apparently never told her no about anything, and that really isn't a good way to raise a well adjusted child, though it may not have mattered because at that point her schizophrenia was already driving her to madness. Maybe he tried early on giving her boundaries and couldn't figure out a way to enforce them without causing her psychological harm, so he just gave up on it. Who knows. But he was absolutely a loving father figure. He was so incredibly gentle with her, understanding, patient, forgiving, and calm. They absolutely trusted each other. It was only after finding out Vi was still alive and trying to get rid of her without telling Jinx did she feel betrayed by him, which is understandable.
But the reason he did that wasn't manipulative. He wasn't afraid of losing his tool, he was afraid of losing his daughter. His own abandonment issues made him worried if Vi came back into the picture, she might lead Jinx away from him or even turn her against him, and he couldn't deal with that.
Meanwhile Harley is like "Haha, i'm crazy BRRRRRRRRRRRRR"
Brilliantly well said. Best Jinx character breakdown I've seen.
Damn, long read, but so well said. Not sure if her schizophrenia stems from the trauma of blowing up her family and losing her sister though, as it is at least partly genetic and usually doesn't manifest before adolescence anyway. Srongly agree with your take on Jinx vs Harley though.
Edit: Also want to add, I don't think Harley Quinn is a bad character in any way. Her "craziness" is just not as realistic and has never been explained in the same detail.
@@Samuel-th6fw Yes, it isn't fully understood. Genetics are believed to be part of the equation, but environmental factors, psychological trauma, and other things also play a big role.
It may be worth noting that Vi also experienced visual and auditory hallucinations at two different points during the show.
The first time we see it was after Sevika had stabbed her and she was bleeding. She saw visions of Powder in a couple of locations and also heard her. Then again, when fighting Sevika, she had hallucinated hearing Vander's voice telling her to get back up and go.
Now, perhaps the first instance was just the result of an altered state of mind due to blood loss and perhaps the second was due to a head injury. We don't really know. Vi's mental state is shockingly ignored throughout the show's run despite suffering almost the same traumas as her sister. But I thought it was worth mentioning.
Don't have to add anything ... You've said it all.
I'd go so far as to say Jinx's madness is genuine while Harley's is more of a calculated choice. I think Harley embraced the ideology of the Joker because she saw the power in chaos and unpredictability. She uses it to diminish her appearance of being a threat right before launching her attack. The closest Jinx came to that was when she feigned meekness with Caitlyn right before launching at her like a beast.
with Harley, we’re told she’s crazy, with Jinx, we’re SHOWED she’s crazy
Literally, when we are shown Harleys room its look how crazy and quirky and the "normal" character, the intended embodiment of the audience is telling us how weird it is while Jinx's room is just, there. It makes you think about how this or that element got there and why, without any character acting out the "omg shes crazy" trope.
@Ant how scientific is that tho
✨show don’t tell✨ one of my favorite writing rules
couldn't have said it better
Arcane does a great job with the writing rule "Show Dont Tell"
Harley: Edgy crazy
Jinx: Humanized crazy
This right here ^
jinx: trauma not handled well
Harley can be both, depending in the comics
@@baddie4ever694 yes in different comics she can be humanized crazy although this video was based on the live-action movies (suicide squad and bird of prey )
Not edgy more like comedic crazy
Harley is more to glorify “crazy” and quirkiness for the sake of a laugh.
Jinx’s “crazy” comes from actual pain and doesn’t exist for laughs.
That’s an oversimplification.
Harley Quinn is “crazy” Jinx is ill.
There’s a difference.
Harley is also ill, she has mental illness as well.
very well said!
Can’t wait for jhin to come out in arcane and be compared to joker
@@spaniel5657 omg they would lmaoooo
and they'd still be wrong bc the joker is an ideological refutation of Batman's principals, where Jhin is a calculated serial killer who does murder as art
But hey they're both murder men who are deeply disturbed so they're the basically same character lol
Jinx would make Gotham look like Hell, literally.
People liked Harley because she didn't portray the harsh truth of dark insanity. She portrayed what people would like to think crazy is, because the idea of crazy is a lot more attractive than the reality of crazy.
I strongly disagree. Harley's character represents the darker aspect of female experience in a male dominated world. Harley's character exists in a state of cognitive dissonance and fighting to determine her identity; one that's not determined by the male gaze, the patriarchy, gender roles, etc. The "crazy" aspect of her feels like is a form of destructive escapism and addictiveness to doing truly whatever impulsive thing she wants, but her relationships outside of the Joker SHOW her capacity for humanity and that she is just sad and broken. There is truly nothing darker than existing in the pain of a world that incessantly sexualizes, dehumanizes, monetizes, infantilizes, and minimizes your very existence.
I strongly agree with what you said.
Harley's crazy is used for a cheap laugh. But Jinx's crazy makes you want to cry because you know little Powder is in there somewhere.
maybe you should pick up a comicbook about harley quinn, comparing live action and animation is such an unfair comparison and harley is a way better character than jinx in every aspect.
why do you have to put down someone else to raise Jinx just praise both dont try to make someone feel bad about their performance
@@troopydc8219 Nah Jinx is much better and comicbooks are for losers.
@@HeloisGevit funny because most comic book heros/villains are way more popular than jinx LMFAO
@@troopydc8219 popularity isn't a mark of quality. Jinx literally just got a proper story a month ago, no shit characters that have been in mainstream media for many decades are more popular, what a dumb comparison XD
Way different. One's essentially for comedy's sake, the other is total tragedy.
That's why the original Jinx is mostly a Harley Quinn knock-off, but Arcane Jinx takes that sort of character and lifts it up to a whole different level. Because guess what? Psychosis isn't funny. In the real world, schizophrenia isn't a joke, and in reality, a person like Harley Quinn or Jinx wouldn't just be scary, they're a walking, self-destructive tragedy.
Arcane Jinx is to Harley what Joaquin Phoenix was to the Joker.
An uncomfortable look at mental instability
@@autumneagle This. The most accurate statement i ever read
@@autumneagle wait your saying this guy is the best joker no heath ledger is the best joker Joaquin Phoenix's performance as the joker was great but if I were to make a top 5 list he would be number 2 at best heath ledger will be number 1
@@mohabalserafe3795 Heath ledgers joker, as great as it was didn't really delve into the jokers fractured mental state as much as Joaquin Phoenix's version. That's just what having ab arguably better script will give you. You can argue what you like about each of their performances but it doesn't really matter since the subject of their respective movies are completely different and one has more character development than the other because of this.
@@psy_99 isn't the joker a character with a hidden past that nobody knows about as much as I liked the joker movie I feel like it's not really his true story and don't tell me it has something to do with the comics because I don't read any of it
I think the whole thing boils down to a very simple conclusion: Harley *wants* to be crazy, Jinx doesn't.
Jinx/Powder tries to act normal, but has difficulty doing so, which leads to frustration which leads to mayhem. Harley, on the other hand, doesn't really try to act normal. She's not upset about her being crazy, she's upset about being broken up with the Joker, which is a much less personal issue.
It does however result in some inner frustration, but Harley deals with that frustration in a way more random way than Jinx, which feels weird and fake. Harley feels no remorse when randomly hurting someone, so she just has some frustration and copes with it through hurting a random person. Feels cheap and meaningless. Jinx feels frustration and tries her best to not express it through hurting some random bystander, ultimately pushing it down untill it becomes too much. Now that's scarier.
very well put
Depends on which version of Harley you're talking about. The very first version of Harley (from Batman: the Animated Series, or to be precise, The Adventures of Batman & Robin) had an episode called "Harley's Holiday" where she got herself released from Arkham Asylum after being declared cured, was congratulated by Batman, and swore off crime, even proudly showing people the certificate that proved she was sane. Of course, everything went wrong for her and she ended up back in Arkham again at the end, but it was a hopeful ending (she even gave Batman a big smooch when he returned the dress she bought that had kicked off the whole schmozzle and admitted that he'd had bad days too) and the episode generally showed that Harley _doesn't_ really want to be crazy and there's hope for her to be happy. Unfortunately, this interpretation of the character tends to be ignored most of the time in favour of either "haha crazy mad girl loves the Joker", or "haha crazy mad girl is a lesbian".
that true man
@@ArcaneAzmadi aww that's such wasted potential for Harley, thanks for sharing tho i never knew this
@@MasterMultitaskerZed Seriously, you should watch Batman: the Animated Series. It's STILL possibly the single best adaptation of Batman _EVER_ made. When Kevin Conroy died, it literally felt like _Batman_ had died.
jinx is a beautiful representation of the affects of trauma on an untreated severe mental illness. jinx is someone who might actually exist. harley is stereotypically crazy, jinx is a scarily realistic portrayal of cptsd and schizoaffective disorders.
Jinx is not really someone who might exist, because she would be dead or arrested long before the end of the season. Depiction of CPTSD is pretty accurate, the character and it's story is not.
I agree. As someone with PTSD and who is schizoaffective, I relate to her more than anyone or anything else
@@firevex715 yeah probably arrested but no definintly achievable in real life
@@firevex715 jinx is exactly a type of person that might exist. But we're not stereotypical, 99% dont murder people cuz that's a harmful trope rather than reality. There's a lot of mentally ill people, abused, neglected and used just like jinx was. You're just ignorant about it
how do you justify diagnosing her with shizoaffective?
It seems as if, Harley is just made to "glorify" madness in a funny and cool way. While Arcane's Jinx is made to show you the tragedy and the not so fun part of being crazy
Read a book I'm begging you
@@Kill3rrockstar ?
@@danielwoods3896 they are talking about a character they clearly don't know about
@@Kill3rrockstar I watched suicide squad, it was a deplorable showcase of mental illness.
@@danielwoods3896 yup I definitely said go watch the movie and not read a book
Jinx is a character,
Harley is a character trait.
@Jilco wtf is your profile picture
@@gerldrawer4944 ish hawt is what it is ;D
@Jilco 🤡Dumb cringe shipper
Jinx is best stfu
@@gerldrawer4944 if you hadn’t written this comment I never would’ve noticed it EW
12:51 This is completely irrelevant to Jinx or Harley, but I love how Ekko's mask is designed because even though you can't see his face, his emotions read loud and clear. When Jinx shoots his fellow Firelight (the pink-haired girl she mistook for Vi,) he reaches out (even shouting a muffled "NO!") and his mask is angled upwards. This makes the eyeholes look bigger and the brow-like structure look angled down on the outer corners, which is what the human face does in a sad/horrified expression.
In comparison at 13:00 Ekko's mask is angled down as he glares at Jinx. The eyeholes look narrowed and the brow-like part of the mask looks pushed-down and the inner corners are the lowest points on them, which is what the human face does while expressing anger/hatred.
My God I was thinking just that, then I saw your text. Yes!
wow this is genius
oh my fuckin god
Ugh, I hate the use of the word "crazy" in relation to mental health. But Jinx is an incredibly good (and relatable) depiction of CPTSD and various other intersecting illnesses. As someone with CPTSD I've never related to a character more, and her symptoms are so damn realistic - intrusive thoughts of abandonment, sensory overload, splitting, attachment issues, emotional dysregulation.
I didn’t open up to my therapist fully for over two years because I was afraid of the word “crazy”. I’m not broken, I’m traumatized
that was my only gripe with the video, especially since they were taking a serious look at actual mental health issues
I think jinx is crazy coz she blows up people, places and is actually very violent
@@nickeni3050 then you’re in the wrong comment thread. There’s literally no psychological expert who will diagnose somebody as “crazy”, that’d be like going to a regular doctor and for appendicitis and they call it “yucky tummy” or something. It’s reductive, vague and generally unhelpful. Yes, she does horrendously violent things, and no, that’s not excusable. But writing her off as “crazy” is lazy
@@eileensnow6153 wait..the UA-camr was therapist/psychological expert, I didn't know sorry
As a person who has lived with schizophrenia almost my whole life, and currently dating someone with same issue , we both feel Jinx is an almost uncomfortable reminder, a little too close to home. the visions, the voices, The sort of logic that you know does not make sense but also makes sense. Its almost like watching a friend lose themselves. Jinx's struggle with her manifestations seem real. Where as Quinn always seem like a joke. Her mental issues seem like a side note not a defining trait that she attempts to control.
Wow thanks for sharing this, your last line really perfectly sums it up
@@schnee1 thank you, and for the video :) it is well put together. Your take on both characters is quite in-depth
It feels like the animators know this way too well. They make sure to never sugar coat the worst moments, to do terribly realistic movements and facial expresions in those focal points even if the rest of the action is superhero tell-gravity-to-fuck-itself fantasy. The visual representation of the schizophrenia is a genius way the animation translated it into something a ""Not Craizy"" person could undestand.
Whenever Jinx is not holding a machinegun bigger than herself, she's allways doing that twiching thingy and making herself smaller, being in constant movement, things that you can see in real people's body lenguage but most adults will brush off as "getting distracted" or "being childish" or even tell you to "Cut it out" as if being uneasy is your foult.
I was wondering how this effected people with this diagnosis because they go sooooo specific with the visions and sounds and voices related to her psychosis, I'm a bit glad they didn't add in the voices to every scene that she talked to an inanimate object, that might have been too much. I'm so
glad it wasn't too much for you guys...they go hard.
@@Bludreamgirl yes, it's sort of refreshing to see but also jarring. My gf does not like animation but felt compelled enough by jinx to watch. It wasn't too bad. We overall just felt bad she wasn't able to get help. Having someone not only understand, but also ground you when things are out of balance is a priceless thing. Unlike us who ground each other, jinx has to fight that struggle alone. It's really just tragic
“Jeez I’m not that crazy” - Jinx
I found that line hilarious and concerning. As you can see before she opens the lid, jinx is watching Vis reaction and getting joy out of her fear. Jinx is that crazy!
Jinx also really loves shooting people. Whereas VI does it for defense, anger
Pretty sure jinx was watching vi to gauge her reaction to see what cait meant to vi
I think it was more of how to see if vi still trusts her as powder and to guage her reaction, if she truly believed powder was still in there she would've trusted it and not turn away cus she knows "powder" wouldn't kill someone she loves, but alas she turned away cus she knows their relationship is doomed from the beginning and vi could never love jinx like she used to with powder. And thats what jinx wants to be, loved.
@@Zephora43 yeah that could be the case as well! You can interpret heaps of scenes in so many ways. The show did an amazing job! ❤️
That's the thing too. Even VI at that point was accepting Jinx as unstable. VI would never even believe Powder was capable of doing something that insidious. Ultimately it showed that everyone around her realized she was psychologically damaged.
As a psychology student I really learnt to realise that "crazy" simply doesn't exist.
It seems to me that many people create "crazy" characters (like Harley Queen as it's shown in the video) merely because It is an easier role and portrayal. As the "crazy" of Harley Queen Is portrayed in the suicide squad, simply shows a product of recklessness, impulsivity, screaming or acting unexpectedly in a buffoony manner to entertain its audience. On the other hand, jinx "craziness" is the result of mental trauma, instability - something that is really hard in my opinion to portray and splendidly capture.
So my point somehow is that it's easier (to my mind) to act an reckless character like Harley Queen in the Suicide Squat than to really show the impact of how unresolved trauma and tragic events do change a person. It is easier to show the "crazy" in a funny and entertaining way than to show the emotions, the thoughts of someone who struggles with a mental illness. That's what arcane did with jinx, in my opinion. To me, she doesn't fit the classic portrait of "crazy" set by Harley Queen but rather the portrait of a hurt and traumatised child haunted by her past.
Also Suicide Squad is shit. I like Harley Quinn from the cartoon "Harley Quinn" better.
@@karolinakuc4783 i agree. in the cartoons, i think they did a better job of portraying a mentally ill person. Harley quinn in the animated series shows very obvious signs of Stockholm syndrome, and you can see how she has been manipulated and mentally hurt by the joker. In suicide squad, shes just a screaming girl, not really "crazy".
I don't think Harley Quinn is an "EASY" character to portray
@@seraphina453 I also do think that depicting people who are mentally ill in a way that gives you a good picture of what they are going through is a lot harder with real people. Animation gives you the freedom to visualize it. The story in Arcane could not be done with real people.
Keep studying.
I gotta say I would love to see a movie about Harley Quinn that is mature, intellegent and nuanced cos I think that Margot Robbie is perfect for the role and has clearly shown her acting abilities in better movies.
Its such a shame to see such a great opportunity wasted, all you need are writers who actually care about the character and the story to make a masterpiece out of this character.
Margot is so talented. Hope the same
I mean the issue is that Harley Quinn *is* a "Haha so silly" crazy character. The character is weak as a baseline, unfortunately.
So the series of Harley Quinn
The best show to watch for this is the animated series about Harley and her relationships with and then without the Joker.
You should totally watch the cartoon, it's got found family vibes and Harley's psychology degree is remembered for once. She has a whole arc and it's a good watch
In the table scene where Jinx brought in the plate and was about to open the cover, the fact that Vi was scared and thought Jinx actually decapitated Cait meant that even though Vi kept saying that she wanted to make Jinx into Powder again, there was some part of her that already acknowledged that her sister was too far gone. The intensity of the scene was well made as even though most of us knew that Jinx wouldn't have killed Cait at that moment, we were still on the edge.
Love this point. It may have even been a test on Jinx's part (conscious or not) to see how much her sister still believed in her
And right when Vi says “what did you do?” Jinx looks genuinely hurt for a second before covering it up.
@@totallyjokers ngl that seriously chilled me-
@@techedbirb6663
Yeah that somehow managed to give me even more anxiety
@@totallyjokers the moment I saw the platter being brought in as well I was like "no no no no no"
Growing up, one of the tricks I was taught to keep myself safe when I felt threatened by a guy was to say something that made me seem completely unhinged. I saw an example on the internet where a girl used the phrase "I'm going to eat your eyeballs". The idea is to make yourself look like a threat to someone who sees you as a target by making yourself seem unpredictable, uncontrollable, and crazy. That's the way I see Harley- she's seen as scary and threatening because she's unpredictable and completely uninhibited. And she is threatening while also being shamelessly feminine. A lot of the time, when you express anger as a woman you're seen as dramatic, stupid, or unreasonable. For me, Harley represents this fantasy of being taken seriously by people I'm angry at. I have no idea what the people who created or reinterpreted her character intended, but that's what fuels my fascination with the character.
I can see the appeal of that. I had a friend try to take my life once. She was in full murder mode, and I could not stop laughing to save my life (pun intended). Afterwards, she told me, quite concerned, "You know I was really going to kill you right? I could not stop myself." I confirmed I did. She then said, "Then why were you laughing the whole time?" I answered honestly and without hesitation, "Because it was so funny watching you try." Even with full intent and a decent size advantage on her side, I simply did not take her as a serious threat. Fortunately, her episode was a wake up call for her, and she started getting the help she needed, but it must have been as frustrating as it was relieving knowing I could handle myself so well I did not feel my life was in danger.
Very well said, this is pretty much my feelings about Harley's character too.
Cry about it
Agree.
@@astasuigeez
CRUSHED IT AGAIN! As a therapist myself, I really really enjoyed your analysis of Jinx in particular, especially how you explored how her trauma has stunted her emotionally and mentally. I love how Arcane takes the "crazy sexy girl" trope and both subverts and deconstructs it. Jinx in the actual game may be more of a Harley Quinn figure, but in Arcane she is a much more believable, realistic, and frankly less frustrating depiction of trauma and mental illness. She's not perfect, of course (unless you're Silco), but she is incredibly well written and is handled with much more care and nuance than most other media tackling this trope is capable of. It's also extremely refreshing that her psychosis isn't really played for laughs. It is purposeful and it is treated with the severity that it deserves.
Anyway, another fantastic analysis!
I think the analysis of Jinx was fantastic, but Harley Quinn is far more complex than people give her credit. Harley exists in a state of constant cognitive dissonance and fighting for her identity. And she is very well depicting the abstract female existence in a male dominated world.
Even her nickname from the Joker "harlequin" and the plot of "Birds of Prey" explains this phenomenon. She is seemingly fighting everything to simply exist in a way that isn't pre-defined, expected or forced onto her. The suffocation of gender roles and the patriarchy. She psychoanalyzes others still and manipulates someone based on what they want from her to act how she pleases or simply survive...so she is surely not some dumb, completely impulsive and "crazy" person as we assume she is.
She is a beautifully complex character that shows this feminine rage and apathy, while tricking viewers into STILL IRONICALLY sexualizing her, infantilizing her, and minimizing her (which is exactly what the male gaze does to women in general).
On the other hand Jinx's character is constructed to be more realistically unstable and more relatable. The Arcane creators did a wonderful job of painting a world that is disconnected to some sociological realities of our own existences. And also for Jinx, there is much attachment for who she is as person and her journey due to showing her development from Powder. VS The DC world is portrayed as an alternate reality of our world (including the harsh sociological conditions many suffer from) and a viewer of Harley Quinn's presence has to willingly empathize with her trauma and experience as Dr. Quinzel despite only being fed villainous, cunning, or silly destructive behavior and a vague detached explanation of her traumatic past...
A very small point on the violent scene:
Harley isn't being 'violent'. She's hamming it up, standing around making funny faces, making one liners.
Jinx has her moment, and then just casually shoots the kid in the back without a word.
Harley is performing insanity. Jinx is insane. Jinx isn't trying to entertain anyone. Not even herself. Least of all herself. Harley isn't dangerous, she's easy to approach, you can feel like you can have a laugh with Harley. Hell, in the movies she's most often seen literally partying. Jinx - when she's not blowing up buildings and casually murdering children - is a gadgeteer in a madness basement talking to life-sized dolls of people she killed and talking to herself while trying to figure out how to make bigger and bigger explosions because it's the only thing she's good at.
haha, so rigth, that's why i say Jinx is more like the Joker, she is what Harley is trying to be
@@gizel4376 Jinx is a bit reclusive in Arcane. Harley has no interest being an introvert.
Joker is not comparable to Jinx either. His decent into madness is a quick switch. And in all iterations he completed his transformation and he's invulnerable.
Junx is vulnerable.
@@cyncynshop she WAS vulnerable, i'm pretty sure at the last moment of the last episode it was the end of her decent into madness
@@gizel4376 that's what I'm saying. Not many people scare me in fiction but the Joker and Jinx terrify me
And in my opinion thats a good thing.
If you watch the Harley Quin series you’ll notice she’s actually doing bad things, doing mad things even to impress other villains and impress the joker, throughout the series she realises this and changes up a bit, from mad to anti hero like (more like deadpool) and she even takes down the Joker herself. After a while even the justice league doesn’t care about her anymore because she’s a villain fighting other villains, making her essentially a hero. Next to that Harley goes through depression multiple times in the series and kinda searches herself again, even talking to her old self (before she met Joker) and while she talks to herself she becomes a lot more realistic and a lot more like Jinx, just like Jinx kinda talked to powder, she talked to Harleen. So yeah the suicide movies don’t do her justice and her being “fake mad/insane” was kinda the point.
Harley was the type of crazy that was crazy because people thought it looked fun. Arcane Jinx is a reminder of the tragedies that comes along with unsolved childhood trauma and PTSD.
Often ppl think that Jinx is the villain of that story, specially when the character was released back in ~2014, but I'd say the world of Piltover/Zaun is the true villain, Jinx is just yet another victim of a place where rich ppl exploit poor ppl like they were no humans at all.
I mean, living in a world like that, if you turn out all right you're a true hero.
This. As someone with C-PTSD, its good to see good trauma representation for once. Every person with complex trauma has their own child still buried deep inside thick walls; the child whose needs, to feel safe and loved, were never met.
A friend of mine called Harley "white girl crazy" once and it clicked that she's more of just a power fantasy for someone that is used to not having to deal with consequences for their actions often getting to just throw even morals to the wind and ham up what they wanna do under the label of crazy to the point where Crazy just becomes a stand-in for quirky now.
@Ant yeah and Batman is an orphan turned billionaire but he's still a power fantasy for non-orphan kids with not-shot parents, what's your point?
@Ant Love how people keep going into the movies and comics for Harley when she introduced in a cartoon first.
I love the use of dissociation in Jinx’s representation of psychopathy. Most of the time when she’s looking at something she’s looking through it. A powerful touch for the animators to add.
Isn't Jinx a sociopath?
@@redpanda6497 hm, I don’t really think so. I believe (personally) that Jinx has BPD (borderline personality disorder) along with psychosis. Even at a young age Jinx was paranoid of abandonment from Vi, and once Vi officially “left” that’s when Jinx’s BPD probably formed. You can see many traits aligning with her, biggest example is her crippling fear of abandonment and she’s constantly idealize someone before devalues them (Vi) and her impulsive/self destructive behavior (as seen with her break down she nailed herself). And of course her conflicted and changing moods, another example was when she met Vi again and you can see her being relieved before quickly changing to frustration. And for her killing people with no empathy, that could be from chronic feelings of emptiness, but at the same time she DID grow up in a place where death was everywhere so… oh also I think because of the psychosis she see’s and hears things! I just don’t really think sociopathy and psychopathy really match her, she CAN feel empathy but struggles with it. Sorry for this long thing I like talking about jinx hehe
@@mistymystic1380thats a really impressive analysis of her character! Very well written and researched.
She looks at birds, and thinks? Should I kill you? OK.
Harley is simply what a 12 year old woud imagine a crazy person to be like.
If you told me that Jinx, who started as another Harley Quinn knock off, was WAY more fleshed out than any of Harley's incarnations EVER, I probably would've laugh. Riot truly out done themselves, 10/10 show and characters
Edit: I created a warzone...
I agree. I love Harley, but Powder can't really be compared to Harley because she's just her own fleshed out character. There's so many layers to her and her mental issues. Not saying Harley doesn't have layers either, but Jinx is her own thing.
and all of that started because the authors of batman the animated series needed someone to push joker's cake into a police station.
@Xbox One I wouldn't say they only gave her a sad backstory. They could've given Harley a sad back story and it still wouldn't be the same as the way they did Powder.
Read comics Harleen. Harley could easily be just as complex.
@@miramaxcinemax5512 But has never been. So for now Jinx has the win
I think one of the main appeals for characters like Harley is that they have no restraint. They say and do what they want without a care for the consequences and that is an idea many people find attractive. Harley is less a crazy character and more just a goofy/wacky character with very little impulse control. Her crazy is like you said, superficial, and done because of looks fun.
Jinx is actually crazy and her insanity is not played for fun. She has serious mental issues born from major childhood tragedy and trauma. Since she never really delt with her trauma her mental issues have gotten worse and worse as the years have gone by. Jinx is now a tragic but also very dangerous person. It looks fun to be like Harley but no one wants to be like Jinx.
I agree about the whole "played for laughs vs played for real" aspect. That's what hit home most to me. Harley Quinn has become this psycho character you love to love - she's just wacky and crazy, sometimes with the Joker but sometimes with Poison Ivy. But Jinx is a traumatized child who never matured or grew up. She's not funny, she's just mentally broken and it shows. She has her funny scenes too, and I laughed when she said "jeez, even I'm not that crazy!" during the finale. But she's not a character that you want to be funny. She's a character that you want to show the impact of trauma upon mental health.
Well said
Like the difference between Harley Quinn and Arcane is Harley Quinn was meant to be funny, was meant to attract people with how random and funny she was as for Arcane it was meant to be serious, It was meant to show real trauma, heartbreak, and really just someone you can connect with, Arcane was to make you feel the pain of the character as Harley Quinn was to attract and make the audience laugh.
My interpretation as Harley, as least in how her show and her better comic book series has treated her, is that she's less of a "its fun to be her" and more she's supposed to be icon for getting out of abusive relationships and learning to become a better person, which is something I think the show does particularly really well at.
I think one of my favorite moment from the show was when Harley realizes the story of her origin that she's been telling everyone, ie that the Joker forced her to become a villain by pushing her into the acid, is nothing more than a lie she told herself because she wasn't willing to accept the fact that she CHOOSE to jump into the acid. Every time she told herself she had no choice in the matter, or that Joker made her this way, was just a lie because she didn't want to accept that she accountable for her terrible actions or that she was dumb enough to believe the lies that the Joker was telling her.
But this revelation doesn't break her, instead she embraces that all of this was her fault as a way to reclaim her agency. Yeah, she made a terrible mistake, but it was HER mistake to make, not the Joker's. She always had the power to escape from that abusive relationship and become a better and more independent person, she just never realized until now. From that point forward, every action she makes, good and bad, she makes because its what she WANTS to do and accepts full accountability for it.
This moment acknowledges her mistakes and responsibility for her actions, and then has her grow to become a better person, and I think that's the fantasy Harley(when she's at her best) sells to people, especially those stuck in abusive relationships or dealing with mental issues. Harley as a character gives them hope and encouragement that even when things seem to be at their worst and there's no way out, they still have the power to get out and make their lives better.
@@newbestfriend9742 You know, its sad that this is what modern Harley Quinn is to people these days, because I think this really misses what was the original core appeal about Harley as character. Sure, part of that appeal was Harley being a wacky goofball, but I think the core aspect of her that made people originally fall in love with her was her role as a abusive victim icon. If it wasn't for the tragic tale of her being stuck in abusive relationship, and later the empowering tale of her breaking out of it and learning to become a better and more independent person, I don't think Harley would be anywhere near as popular as she is today.
So DC's insistence of just making her the wacky Deadpool clone of the DC universe just feels so out of touch with what made her popular to begin with. I remember even seeing a post from a woman stating how she hates how DC continues to deemphasize Harley's trauma and relationship issues since it feels like they're getting rid of the only popular superhero icon for abuse victims. What was once an interesting character that people could relate to and maybe even look up as inspiration to get out of abusive relationships is now just a generic comedy character who few can relate to and less can look up to as inspiration for anything.
Harley is so much more than what Suicide Squad 2016 and Birds of Prey showed us.
The animated show fully realizes her character: it gives her clear wants, it explores her trauma and the relationships with the people around her.
Giving too much credit to the animated Harley Quinn show, it doesn't even belong in the same room as Arcane.
For a moment when you said "The animated show" I forgot you were talking about the Harley Quinn series and thought you were talking about Batman: the Animated Series and The Adventures of Batman & Robin. 'Harley's Holiday' was a classic episode of the latter which showed some of the layers Harley had beyond "crazy because funny". She was so proud to be officially declared sane that she was showing off her certificate of sanity like a badge, but when things started to go just a LITTLE wrong she became paranoid and impulsive and overreacted, without becoming malevolent or stereotypically "crazy" again.
@@prufanWe know that the animated series is far from as good as arcane, they’re just saying that it’s exploring the character and giving them the depth they deserve
ua-cam.com/video/hjgWxZn_vYk/v-deo.html
I was really worried about this video bc it feels really like dehumanizing when i hear people call jinx crazy bc idk i guess i see a lot of my own condition reflected in her (i have autism and adhd) like yk really strong emotions, not being able to react properly to situations, etc. but no, this was a really awesome video and character analysis !! its really good and i feel like the points where very well handled it awesome!!! and like not dehumanizing jinx by calling her just a crazy person its great, tysm for making this video!!! :D
As someone with both autism and ADHD, if you relate to Jinx *that* strongly you should probably see a therapist because you're missing a trauma diagnosis- neither autism nor ADHD in of itself will portray most of the symptoms Jinx has- things like BPD, PTSD, and Schizophrenia are closer.
Fellow ADHD and Austism mix, while I don't relate to the trauma aspect of Jinx, the more subtle aspects of her character likethe obsessiveness, the restlessness , being prone to letting emotion overwhelm decision making. Not accepting/reacting well to change.Rushing headfirst into things etc., are really similar. One of my favorite parts is when Jinx looks are Viktor's notes moaning about how boring they are, sets off the gemstone, and manages to figure out how it works unassisted by the end of the episode.
That seen where powder feels helpless as a kid and is drooling and throwing stuff around and pulling her hair, I don’t thing I’ve seen that really captured so well before?
you made me realize why i relate so much, adhd and autism too
i feel like Powder may also just be Autistic /coded
Jinx is more of a semi realistic look at how trauma destroys someone's ability to properly access their emotions, thus a much more humanizing angle for madness.
That’s the word that comes to mind with Jinx’s trauma: destroy.
Comparing Arcane Jinx to Harley Quinn is like comparing a actual diamond to a dollar store diamond
100%...shit character from a shit film compared to a complex backstory and character from probably the best series via Netflix/Riot...ever.
There are some depictions of Harley that are pretty good like BTAS Harley, but I still prefer jinx, because she can easily stand alone by herself, whereas Harley Quinn has always relied on the fact that she was the jokers girlfriend even after she broke up with him and became an anti hero
@@Peanutdenver alright let's not compare the characters in terms of the films but in terms of REAL characters... Jinx was a character with a tragic backstory, who was neglected, traumatized and wounded from her past. Her past actions really did impacted her life, she struggled mentally and emotionally and find no way out of her sanity. She's a human nonetheless... A human where people can relate to and feel for them... Harley Quinn on the other hand is a character that does crazy things just for the sake of her lover, Joker. She was THAT madly in love him that she accepted her fate into the chemical plant and behold, she transformed into the Harley Quinn. The movie never really mentioned her actually really traumatic origin so what is it? The father was the usual drunk as***le who kicked his daughter, she was always alone and tormented by anyone she met in her life. She decides to follow psychiatry and then she meets the Joker. As crazy as it may seem... She actually did justice for once. In the DC comics Injustice series, she was the hero of gotham, and brought Joker back to his dimension. "I still can't believe it. Me. Bringing down Brainiac. Who knew? Still, Bats surprised me, offerin' me a spot in the Justice League. Not totally sure he ain't crazy, but who says no to that guy? Y'know, being good feels good. But every now and again, every once in a while, I get this irresistible urge to go out and bash some heads! Hopefully being good will stick long term. 'Til I'm sure, my kid Lucy's still gonna known me as her crazy Aunt Harleen. Maybe someday I can giver her the real scoop." that's the Post-Brainiac epiologue of what she said. From the DC comics, it is very apparent she transitions from a villain to Anti-hero to earning to be a Hero. It's sad to see how misunderstood of a character she is because these movies never dive in deeper to her favorable qualities. There are some youtube videos that tell a gist about the history of Harley Quinn and what she contributed in the DC comics in the injustice series. Go to take a look at it, if you're interested in it. There are around 5 years of the story revolving around other characters as well... And overall, I think it was a great story.
@@jahsuo4254 I love Harley in the animated show but yeah,
@@Peanutdenver bruh, Harley isn't FROM Suicide Squad, the fuck?! She's from the comics. As you said, the film was shit, so it couldn't possibly do justice to her character
What really got me with the cupcake scene was that, Jinx is also inspired by the Joker, and the Joker once did the exact same thing except instead of a cupcake he had the faces of the bat family. So I was fully ready for that to happen here.
Yeah because unlike Jinx ,Joker has no limits
Same!! One thing I love about Jinx is that she is sceming alot in her madness, can't wait for season 2
Actually the shark gun was a show of attatchment to Silco, he loves his underwater beasts as he lost himself in the water, he became a new person when he drowned. Theres a scene somewhere showing him talking about it (i think) and that's where Jinx got the idea for the gun, she lost her attatchment to her anchor, Vi, and found a new one being Silco
Jinx was created with her shark gun almost a decade before Silco was even a concept... but it's a nice symbolism coincidence. Rather, maybe they designed Silco for accommodate this connection
somewhat off topic of the crazy, but something i want to praise about the design of Powder/Jinx. there is an interesting choice in the outfits used throughout Arcane. The color blue is used to represent Powder, and the color Pink is used to represent Jinx (harkening back to her original champion design). in the very beginning (the bridge scene) young powder is wearing a blue outfit with a brown overcoat, with no pink at all. she at that moment is 100% Powder. in the main body of Act 1 Powder is wearing a blue over shirt, with a dark pink striped under shirt, this represents how jinx is under the surface, its mostly powder, but the traumas of her past has affected her. in act 2 and 3, theres a lot less blue, and the pink striped aspects of her outfit are muted still but uncovered, even her nail polish is pink and blue. Powder is still there, but jinx is the main aspect of her personality. and finally if we fast forward to the game outfit (which is canonically the latest in the timeline) her outfit is Hot pink in color and there's not a bit of blue to be found, at that point she is 100% Jinx.
This breakdown reminds me of moderngurlz’ channel. And I love it! I completely forgot about the meaning of her change in outfits.
That could actually tie in with Vi as well because I feel like you would initially associate Vi with pink for pretty obvious reasons, but Jinx even says to Vi that Silco didn't make Jinx, she did.
Don't forget Jinx's pink shimmer-transformed eyes!
The only blue to be found, oddly enough would be in the shark rocket launcher, but she personifies thst one as a father figure (which is assumed to be thst she views it as silco)
@@GundamReviver yea, fishbones (the rocket launcher) is more of a steel blue, or gun metal, so i didnt really join it with the brighter blue of her outfit. i think in the game, Fishbones is supposed to personify her repressed conscience (which if this is included could be another reason why its blue). Within the canon of Arcane, however, i like the idea that pow pow (the mini gun) is any conscience she has left (would be a clever call back to Vi's pet name for powder) and Fishbones is her connection to silco and his love of deep sea predators.
I think Jinx also plays into the crazy at times. Yes she is crazy when she gets emotional, but it also seems like she has built up a public persona of being crazy. When she is with Silco or alone we get to see more of her real side, still broken, but not as over the top as she sometimes acts. But she is clearly playing it up when, for example, she is trying to get information from "Chuck" at the bar. Or when she tied up Sevika, we get to see her first acting unpredictable, but at the end, with the "atchoo", she snapps out of the act.
Yup, which makes her even scarier. Because the TRUE crazy aspects of her, the deepest darkest crazy aspects, she CANT control. So there are these levels of her, and you never know which one you're really getting (the sneeze scene for instance with Sevika.)
I think thats just jinx lol.
When she is alone she is still crazy.
She just doesn't have a goal when she with silco expect spend time and talk to him.
When she went alone no .. she is still pretty crazy..
And when she is fixing her leg she is still quite crazy.
I think she does it but doesn’t really notice that she does (like her personality just changes at the click of a button)
i dont really see that honestly, with the sevika thing she still seemed very much unhinged after the 'achoo,' especially with how she leaves her after. also even when shes alone shes talking to herself and acting 'crazy' and seeing/hearing hallucinations, same as with silco when shes rambling about seeing the girl with pink hair or sticking the needle in his face
I really could not disagree more.
Built up a persona of being crazy?
Nah, if you think that youve never seen an actual crazy person.
Trauma like that doesnt manifest all of the time, that why the word "triggered" is even a thing, cuz there are things that sets it off.
(No, twitter didnt invent it, its from psychology 101)
Jinx is pin point perfection as a depiction of PTSD.
I have ex-military friends who while not being murderous psychos pretty much function the same way.
Most of the time theyre themselves, if emotional stress or certain trigger points are pressured they go off.
Ive never seen a more life like depiction of this in fiction than Jinx.
The writers did their research.
I like to think that Harley's popularity stems from her source material combined with Margot Robbie doing her best with what she's given. Original Harley was a blend of obsession and mania squeezed into a blatantly abusive relationship, constantly trying to keep up with Joker's sense of humor. And in her moments of clarity, she sees all these problems, she just can't stay clear long enough to fix them. So even though we're attracted, we also pity her for the trap she's in.
OG Harley in BTAS was well written in my opinion. She wasn’t really written to be “crazy” like she is now. She didn’t talk to “the voices” or whatever, she was manipulated into falling in love with a psychopath and would do anything for him. Her story was a tragedy, and after she moved on from the joker I feel like she just became directionless, so the writers leaned into her “insanity” and goofiness. She was goofy in the original show because it was a cartoon and because of the clown aesthetic used by the joker, not because thats how she actually was.
The game version of Jinx is like Harley Quinn, but the arcane version is her own thing she's a lot more tragic in arcane. Harley never really seems crazy or mentally unstable/damaged just super silly and playful. Jinx is still playful at times but it's more unsettling you can tell she isn't sane
Jinx is the aftermath of arcane. She expresses her craziness by being immature while Harley shows her craziness by being seductive. They have similarities but also different in their own way. Jinx in game make sense because of Jinx Arcane. They're not separate entity.
@@Vizible21 I'm sure when riot starts making league games that not a MOBA game arcane version of the champions will follow suit
@@revolutionarydragon1123 that's not the point of the op tho? And although yes they change some of the backstory of some characters from the lore to arcane (i.e. Jayce). Jinx and Vi is still the same. They just have more depth now that we know their backstory. And voicelines in game isn't even canon. Their just there to
a. Express a core idea of the champions.
b. A reference to the actual lore.
c. An exaggeration of a character's personality so as not to make the game boring and bland.
You dont know much about harley but I'll say this... She has killed children with bombs for fun and thats the least crazy twisted thing she has done
As much I love Jinx character, Harley Quinn is still much more disturbing than her. In the comics she done way worse and insane things.
Jinx’s crazy joke gave the “Let’s eat, Grandma!!” with no comma type of vibe LMFAO
TRUE LMFAO
I forgot to read the comma
I think one of the things about Jinx's instability - which you kinda touched on, I think, is that even that is used to create conflict, for the viewer and for the other characters alike. We're all rooting for her, she's trying to stay "okay" and the people around her are trying to keep her okay, for a variety of reasons. We're all desperately wracking our brains to think of what would be the best reaction and comforting words, and every failure is like a punch to the gut. That hope, it's beautiful
I was expecting manic pinky pie and felt like I was in the room with an actual derranged person that needed to be restrained before they could calm her down. It was the most depresing and anxiety inducing thing and I just feel like someone on the writing staff has seen someone like this IRL somehow.
I like how you're pointing out that Harley Quinn is a female fantasy even more than a male fantasy. You're right that there's something alluring about the idea of being a female and showing all the emotions you want to show. And having complete freedom in that. She's very feminine and attractive, but she shows all the inner-little-girl tendencies. I liked how you juxtapose that to Hulk. I think they both embody what the opposite gender (in heterosexual people) are both attracted to and fearful of. A man's brute strength is both alluring and terrifying. A woman's emotions are both endearing and confusing/scary. That's why the manic pixie dream girl and the "dangerous bad boy I can change" are similar fantasies.
Jinx is just cool and in a way relatable.
This is the BEST comment I’ve ever read, I frankly feel enlightened.
Not sure what it has to do with sexuality though
@@annalenaguptara7130 maybe just putting it out there, it can be a factor after all
YES
Love this.
Even on the surface Jinx also has that "mad scientist/mad genius" vibe going on that I don't think Harley does. I honestly think Jinx's intellect is somewhat underappreciated, her skill at designing all her bombs and weapons presumably all herself, not to mention her tactical mind of how to actually employ them, and on top of all that she was able to in a matter of what days? decipher Jayce and Viktor's work and was able to harness the power of the hextech gemstone. Even Viktor is impressed with her bombs even if he underestimates whether she could use the gemstone. It also really makes you wonder what she could have accomplished had she done something like Viktor and rose up the ranks in piltover and been properly educated, I'm sure she could have been a great contribution to Jayce and Viktor.
To be fair, Harley is also incredibly intelligent. In the movies it is played down or forgotten. People forget she used to be a psychiatrist, for most if her adult life. In the comics it is shown, but she hides it under her crazy
yes but i wouldn't want that because i think powder is easily manipulated
Well, I suppose but I think what drives Jinx is the place she lives.
Zaun is dark, brutal and unyielding. Children have to grow up quickly and get good at what they do if they hope to thrive there.
Just as the darkness of Zaun pushed Jinx’ mind over the edge it also honed her drive to do so. Piltover is more relaxed and while she’d probably be sane, that fundamental need to improve to survive would not be there.
oh man, yet another ''what could've been'' to mourn
Very good point. Also she seem to display certain potential traits of autism and savant syndrom mixed with ptsd too. This could point to that she is highly intelligent and that maybe some of her "unclear logic" is a side effect of that and therefore seem odd to neurotypical people i.e. the viewers. And yes a lot of people seem to not notice how fast she deciphers the runes and how many inventions she develops. Also she could in this way represent the problem of intellect over ethics in aggressive competition.
With Jinx's joke I was so scared that it was going to be Caitlyn's head but at the last second I did think it could maybe be a cupcake. When we see Cait's head for a split second I was like oh no she actually went that far then when it's reveled that it was just in Vi's mind and it was a cupcake there was so much relief and I was also glad I was right abt the punchline. Rewatching the scene even when u know the outcome u still feel some of that same tension
5:45
Really one of my favorite parts of the show. It shows how Jinx was effected by her trauma, how she LITTERALY went insane, and that she has hallucinations. It's all basically summed up in this scene.
Actual crazy? Arcane's Jinx HANDS DOWN! Such a tragic character and she's so well written and believable it hurts, just as it does when a friend of yours is suffering from mental health problems
harley quinn is written better. i suggest reading harleen
@@troopydc8219 I still think Jinx is gonna be the better depiction of crazy but it sounds interesting I'll check it out
@@raveturkey1996 i suggest harleen and Mad love by bruce timm and paul dini, im not trying to downgrade jinx but harleys tragedy and abuse from the joker can just as much be in depth.
@@troopydc8219 Another season with jinx and you cant say that anymore.... Jinx is so good written that makes Harley a Joke... But i like them both theres no need to compare.
@@sasukebyak How are you gonna compare live action harley quinn that isnt fully developed to an animated character in a tv show? trust me if you read harleys comics shes in depth.
Jinx from Arcane is more akin to Joaquin Phoenix's Joker than any version of Harley Quinn. She wasn't a sound-minded genius suddenly driven over the edge by a single person; she was someone with deep mental issues constantly forced into situations that worsened them, pushed and pushed until she finally loses herself, more-or-less completely abandoning Powder (she still holds a part of it close, she will later name her minigun after her old self) and embracing the Jinx persona as who she really is.
I agree with you, I though the same thing!
@Thanos is Retired Bold statement there.
I think arcane is better than joker. And Joaquin phoenix did a fucking insane job in that movie. I never could've imagined I'd say that.
@@fallenlegend8888 no this show was a fucking masterpiece.
@@antonhallergren588 I never said it wasn't, I was only referring to the statement made by Thanos is Retired saying Jinx being one of the greatest fictional character ever written a Bold statement.
the "relief" from Jinx after killing the girl is more than just not caring for the life stolen, its not even about the girl.
it's relief from a threat. Jinx was thrown into a flashback, an epside, she froze and couldn't handle the emotions flooding in at once.
we've all heard, "fight or flight" but, there r four options (that im aware of). those being; "fight, flight, freeze, fawn"
Jinx literally froze there. having a panic attack.
when she killed that girl, she was relieved of the threat the girl symbolized. shes clearly still coming down from that panic attack. i'd even argue firing the gun was an automated response and Jinx might be realizing she did that as shes standing their panting.
its not relief over the kill...
It just seems as though we don’t know much about Harley's backstory/it doesn’t seem as focused on by the writers where it’s super complex and in depth and traumatic, whereas with Jinx, it’s the complete opposite and Christian and Alex (the Arcane directors and writers) actually took their time with not only Jinx but everything about Arcane, even the side characters who aren’t seen often like Ekko. Everything is intentional and connected in this Universe. Whereas Suicide Squad's Harley's schizophrenia is made to seem glorified and teehee I’m crazy. And the fact her backstory isn’t in depth or super traumatic and tragic as Jinx's as far as we can tell. All I remember is Harley falling in love with The Joker.
Most people agree that Jinx resembles The Joker more than Harley anyway.
Every time I hear someone go "oh so she's like Harley Quinn" I'm like yes but not really, and you just put the reasons why in this video. Very cool breakdown :)
in game jinx act like harley quinn, the char is inspired from harley but arcane did it differently
@@Tragedyval Jinx was inspired by joker and a few other character but not Harley.
@@Danniboss1 no
@@Danniboss1 She seems more like tank girl inspiration so I think thats why people are confusing since Harley also had some inspiration from tank girl.
@@Ilovegrunge123 It is literally stated that: "Katie 'TeaTime' De Sousa stated Jinx was inspired by the Joker, Gollum from The Lord of the Rings, and Helena Bonham Carter".
One is a "crazy girl aesthetic"
The other, is an actual representation, and what that does to the individual. It's not treated as a quirk to laugh at or go "oh you're so crazy." at, it's meant to be tragic and shine a light on how traumatic it can be.
Harley is written by people who just want the aesthetic but don't actually want to unpack all of what it means and what it'd do to her. Arcane not only unpacks it, but does so in a brutally honest way.
It's amazing how people used to call Jinx essentially a dollar store version of Harley Quinn. But after Arcane, you could literally switch that perception. In terms on how they portray "crazy". Harley is like a glorified and fantasy fulfillment version of 'crazy' and they try to make it 'sexy' wherever they can. Whereas Jinx is the raw reality of it with no glorification or 'but it's so quirky and sexy' thrown into it, Jinx doesn't really embody/exploit the fantasy in the way Harley does.
Read a book
@@Kill3rrockstar lmao wot?
@@Kill3rrockstar Go outside
@@Kill3rrockstar touch some grass
@Ant Wasn't the point of the video to compare the *cinema* adaptation and portrayal? I would love for Harleen to be adapted into a movie like Joker, but it doesn't exist yet.
Coming from someone who experienced psychosis myself, jinx hit so hard. From her breaking down when she was younger, everything really is just overwhelming and that’s how I felt. That was exactly how I felt.
I was diagnosed with major depressive disorder by a psychiatrist around 3 years ago, fortunately with medication and therapy my life is back in track and now I'm a very happy person, but let me tell you, jinx is the way better representation of depression, and mental illness, you can feel she is definitely not enjoying any of the behaviors she has, the mood swings, the insecurity, the suffering, man arcane nailed it.
I went into this show expecting Jinx to be another Harley Quinn and she would be more so of a comic-relief crazy girl character. I was floored after I finished episode 3, I wasn't expecting this show to be about real, raw, and absolte tragic childhood trauma and how it affects a girl as she grows up. It was surprisingly really brutal and hard to watch at times. Everything I thought about this character was so wrong. Her character isn't funny at all. She's acentric, flamboyant, childlike, and has some great one-liners ("jeez, i'm not THAT crazy!") but nothing about her and her situation is funny. The show got real serious real fast during episode 3 and it's not what I expected at all. It's a masterpiece that portrays an accurate representation on how disturbing trauma and serious mental illness is. Harley Quinn almost makes being crazy seem like a fun quirk. The newest Joker movie is a great comparison to Jinx.
and honestly, I still enjoy the craziness, its entertaining! But its more entertaining and meaningful because its real and raw.
Her line when Silco is yelling her name and she just rolls back like "That's me!" made me laugh a good bit Lol
I was just about to say "If Harelquin was ugly, NO ONE would like her" right before you pretty much said just that.
The scale of the writing really comes into play here. With Arcane, I feel that everyone involved wanted to produce something spectacular while Suicide Squad I did not get that feeling. One hallmark of a great writer is someone who can "Show and Not Tell". This is something that the writers of Arcane have done extremely well. And then, there is the connection with the characters. Three episodes were dedicated to building that connection with the main characters. At the end of episode three when Powder was finally able to do something she had been working so hard to achieve, only to learn that she caused the deaths of those she loved, it truly broke my heart to see that play out. These are just some of the reasons that Suicide Squad in comparison if forgettable while Arcane will forever be cemented in my mind.
I kinda like how both characters portray a different side of crazy, While Harley craziness is more of a choice, Jinx’s is more like a coping mechanism. Jinx from a very young age experienced a substantial amount of trauma, but because of the attachment she had to Vi, this trauma was locked up. Basically Vi blocked it out, made it seem less bad. But when Vi left [ not willingly, but still left ] the emotional barrier that Powder was using to block out all of the trauma shattered. The past events is what contributed to her schizophrenia. The amount of Trauma and emotional pain she was going through from such a young age made her immune to the fact that she even had trauma [ unaware or she ignored it ] Basically, the fact that she was almost subconsciously choosing to ignore her trauma made her trauma worse.
Jinx’s character is built on more then just “I’m crazy”. It’s the fact that she continues to ignore the fact that yes, She has trauma, and yes. She’s very unstable. But due to the fact that she grew up in an environment where being a little insane is normal, she doesn’t see it as bad. And due to the fact that she continuously tries to lock up her emotional pain like she used to, she’ll never be able to move forward in her life, she’ll always have a kid mentality, she’ll always be kinda childish and a bit mad, because she lacks the physical and mental ability to work through and talk about her trauma.
Side note: I just noticed Milos doll is bigger then Claggers, idk why but it’s kinda ironic haha
Arcane is just great writing period, lots of visual storytelling, with the facial expressions. It shows not tell unlike alot of Anime
I know right? Anime is good, not denying that, but.. there's just a lot of useless scenes lying around everywhere just to make these episodes longer. Every second in arcane was a total masterpiece, if you even blink for one second you might miss one important detail and that's just chef's kiss
TriHard Clap brudda
@@emaierose same, that's why i can't watch anime sometimes, the innner monologues or static scenes get waaaaaaaay to long and they lead to nowhere, Arcane goes straight to the point
The streotyping kills me. If you don't like anime, you're watching the wrong ones.
@Jilco Absolutely. My only experiences with anime have been DragonBall, a bit of Naruto, death note, and one punch man, and out of all of these, I'd definitely recommend one punch man to anyone without hesitation. I plan to watch evangelion and demonslayer soon enough, I've heard some great things about them
I've always felt Harley Quinn being portrayed as "tragic" was missleading. She always felt to me as just a woman who enjoyed chaos and has beef with someone who, in their own twisted way, helped her embrace that chaos. A bit of a weird stockholm situation with him as angry because she *is* all of those things and more and hates someone like the Joker was the one to bring it out of her and leave her lovesick too. Jynx is nothing like that. I think she doesnt necessarily enjoy chaos and destruction for the sake of it, she seems to enjoy it as a "in your face, told you I could do it" sort of thing directed at her past and most definitly at Vi. Harley's destruction is mostly comedic or accidental, while Jynx's is purposeful and somewhat planned with a specific goal of proving to someone else she is capable of being helpful.
Ngl, I'm kinda tired of seeing "crazy" female characters and everyone jumping immediately to compare them to Harley. I get that Harley is the standard for that type of character but most of the time they're nothing like her and viceversa.
Honestly i think Harley has done the whole potrayal of insanity a disservice.
I mean it's DC, and they're all about doing stylizing and no to little substance. Thus why Lex Luthor with even the worst most confrontation and debilitating parts of his philosophy still holds more weight than the nonsense hypocritically spewed by the Justice League.
But that's also why i liked the 90s Spiderman, guy really dived into the minds, ethos, and souls of most of the villains, and knowing that is typically part of why Spider-Man can beat all those villains.
DC heroes win because goodguys just can't lose.
Guys like Spider-Man win because they have empathy.
And then we have Jinx, perfectly displaying that bit of soul that's been lost, and people are eating it up.
@@codyraugh6599 DC heroes lose constantly, they just had like 3 major events where they heroes either lost or only won at a great cost
@@Americanbadashh you missed the point. Reread the statement. It's pointing out how DC heroes win through power and strength of arms, and hardly ever empathy, negotiative ability, or psychology. Even batman only has ONE well known scene of empathy, and it's as the child villain is dying of a brain tumor and is otherwise someone so powerful as to be entirely unbeatable.
Eh
You can liken Jinx’s relationship with Silco
To Harley’s relationship to joker
Except one was a catalyst and one was a enabler
@@p0rnany0ne haven't thought of the "enabler-catalyst" thing, that's pretty much what those two relationships are, mix in the goal of each character and why they are chaotic/destructive and that's pretty much it
Knowing Harley Quinn, reading every version made of her with every universe, it really depends on the writer and the team that created the series and so on. She was created as a side character for the joker, way before anybody understood how psychology worked (or even cared about that), she was Joker’s lackey and nothing more. With more recent comics some writers have tried to give her something else, a life and a soul to her character, but she sometimes looks more like a patched up script with magazine pictures glued on it (and glitter ,lots of glitter).
Jinx whoever, she was made with love and deep understanding that things are complicated, they can have some order and people naturally fall into certain habits, but what she has is a condition (several of them), and her creators understood what it meant and raised her voice, what it meant to be traumatized while having all these things happening to you within your own body, being completely unable to control it and therefore looking for anything that could make you feel safe again. Loved again.
And I mean I get it, people want to compare them, and find meaning within them both because most Can see both narratives have something to do with love and abandonment, but, they can never be compared.
Quinn is a character that for the longest time was meant to act and exist for the plot and to cover up plot holes and look pretty in her “craziness”. Masking every single problem the franchise had with a pretty woman turned false martyr, she could have been so much more. And she’s only now getting the care she deserves with new writers that want something different and more real.
Jinx got that love from the start and we all benefit from it, she is depicted as real as it could be, it’s gruesome and deeply hurting to see her turn into what leads her to blow up the counselors. Because you know. You know it’s a build up thing, it’s human, it’s painful and you Can relate to it on an unreal level.
If you really want to compare someone to Harley or Jinx (with the same wrong train of thought, because they can never really be compared) is Spinel from Steven universe. Honestly, Spinel might come closer to what some writers tried to do with Harley (but failed miserably, for obvious reasons).
I just hope one day, someone will create the Harley Quinn she deserves to be, and write a story that will lead her to true healing.
Jinx still has a long way to go before her story ends, we have yet to see her friends or where she was when the time jump took place. She has time. Let’s root for the writers and that the story stays intact on its incredible glory. (All the arcane characters are incredibly intricate, it’s truly been a delight to watch them evolve with every act.)
I'm a little late, but that's okay.
I heavily relate to Jinx (powder, more.) and it's interesting to me how these characters overlap but also have obvious differences.
From my experience, Jinx is a character made up to show what a tragedy being pushed to your limits and ending up 'crazy' is like. All the built up trauma made her this way, and she completely left Powder at the end.
Meanwhile, Harley is more towards the glorification of mental illnesses, the 'edgy' crazy girl.
I like both of them, though, but I love relating to Jinx. I'm glad Riot made her story realistic. It's comforting.
Jinx acts like a human while being an animated character while Harley is a character, with less dimensions than the screen we are watching it, played by a human.
Harley's acting is forgettable .. Jinx is going to be hard to forget.
harley isnt forgettable she is loved mor than this jinx person why always put people against eachother just praise jink without putting down margot
@@vampirenun6695 You're right, probably more people know about Harley than Jinx.
I admit it, I'm biased towards Arcane while not really caring about superhero movie genre.
No offence was meant towards Margot either, I was comparing the characters not the actors that play them.
You can’t really compare Harley’s live action character acting and jinx’s animated character acting, It is near impossible for an actor to be able to act in the same way as an animated character with it still appearing believable and not too over the top. Margot Robbie did an amazing job acting as Harley Quinn, however the suicide squad writers barely gave any of the characters much depth at all, including Harley Quinn.
Hey, Margot played Harley amazing
I thought, like Harlequin, the writers would have played up Jinx's craziness for laughs and entertainment. But it was more and more troubling everytime her madness showed up. Especially when she kept telling people to shut up because she sees/hears Mylo whispering discouraging lines in her ears. Girl got some serious issues and I just really didn't expect them to commit and go down that route.
Glad they did tho. This was a series where the characters really shine through.
I’ve liked both of these characters at different points in my life due to how I could relate to them and I think it also sums up the characters. I live with a lot of mental health problems, alongside autism and Tourette’s (collecting them like Pokemon baby let’s go).
When I was very anxious, and dealing with a difficult home life alongside a lot of academic pressure, I adored Harley Quinn because I felt alone and wanted that chance, ti completely let lose, go crazy and be careless, to not deal with reality anymore.
When I was in the depths of depression, dissociating a lot, being called crazy by other people due to my tics, intense mood swings and still lonely, I latched onto jinx because now I was experiencing what it was like to not fully in reality, to already be considered crazy, I saw this character who has that depth and I could relate.
The difference is that one is the romanticised version of crazy, for the people who don’t know what it’s like to not know their own name, to see a clown having fun and completely letting go, going crazy, doing whatever the hell she wants. The other is the reality of crazy, the loneliness, the lack of being grounded, the actual mental torture that is being crazy.
(Btw, I’m doing a lot better now, but I thought it was worth mentioning)
I know I'm a random stranger, but I'm glad to hear you're doing better!
I hope you have people in your life who see who you are apart from your struggles and support you when others call you "crazy".
8:55 I think the only time someone used the word "crazy" in Arcane is in episode 9 when Jinx herself says "sheesh, I'm not that crazy" (maybe I'm mistaken)
and the words holds different power when used by a mentally ill person (i hope this is the correct and repsectful term) vs from someone else talking about them. Jinx using that word for her didn't strike me as hurtful, whereas if Vi or Caitlyn had used it it would have felt harrowing to the soul, I think, especially because Jinx has (visibly) suffered so much, so calling her just that without any empathy would have been inhumane. When Will Smith or whoever calls Harley "crazy", it feels like they belittle her for her disability and it sucks.
I think the difference is that the "craziness" Harley Qinn has in the movies is implied to be an act that has little to do with actual hallucinations or the paranoia that's present in Jinx's case. Harley tends to use it to make people underestimate her and uses that to her advantage, it's not really something that affects her in a significant way.
Jinx's "craziness" aligns more with some type of psychosis meanwhile Harley's is more similar to an anti-social type of personality disorder, that's why they're fundamentally different. Is why she doesn't always show guilt in what she does, while Jinx does show some emotion.
Just my two cents, you can't really diagnose a fictional character tho.
Nah,Harley is definitely not a sociopath
Not even Joker is called sich in the series
Harley is usually diagnosed as having HPD althought I would come more with BPd
@@atanaZion that's another possibility, yeah
But her lack of empathy in some of her versions does have some similarities with an anti-social personality disorder
It's possible to have many disorders or traits of other disorders in Cluster B. I, myself, am borderline with ASPD/HPD traits.
The Bla Bla Bla Bla written on the couch next to Mylo's dummy is referencing how Mylo would never shut up, but I think it's also a reference to the first few seconds of the 2013 get Jinxed music video.
Thank you so much for this, this is an amazing analysis of the two. I think the joke is that:
Before Arcane: *Jinx is Harley Clone*
After Arcane: SOCIETY
haha if that makes sense. Arcane grounds the “crazy” and gives it depth and humanity. One of the things you said was that the directors of Arcane use Jinx sparingly, she’s not always in the show. And that is so true and a really great technique. She’s a fan favorite but not the “main character” but a main character. When they focus on her character it makes it all the more interesting.
Thank you for this.
I relate to jinx in a way I never wanted to. At the dinner scene, the way Vi was telling her to think of her old family, not realizing the harm she was causing. Vi didn’t understand jinx because she was so caught up in Powder, and ignoring the new parts of her sister. When Jinx was almost getting joy from seeing Vi’s fear, it’s a little nudge of “look what you turned me into,” The end where Jinx said she hoped everything could go back to how they were, that Vi could “love me like you used to, even though I’m…different,” Trauma changes you, and you look in the mirror hoping there isn’t a day where you don’t recognize the person looking back at you.
I like both characters for different reasons. But it's a bit unfair to compare Harleys film version to Jinx. Harley is a comic character. That character is much more interesting, regardless of how well Margot plays the character on film.
I'll also add that the huge difference between the two characters is intelligence. Jinx is brilliant and plans out what she does/creates. Harley is dumb, and her survival depends solely on skill/luck/unpredictability of her actions
Harley isn’t dumb tho she was a psychiatrist and uses her ditzy persona to trick people
@@harleyquinn3346 depending on which version but yes Harley is smart. Seems her psychiatrist version speaks to her, to help/guide the crazy Harley in control.
@@harleyquinn3346 But Jinx is a super genius around the same level as Heimer, Jayce, Viktor, Singed, & Ekko. She built a minigun and firefly bombs in an era where most armies are still fighting with spears, swords, arrows ... maybe the odd cannon here and there. A bit different from even a brilliant psychiatrist.
@@djx7134 you know there's a difference between intelligence and wisdom just to be fair there both well written characters in their own perspective
I like Jinx just a little bit more but yeah I don't know why he would use the live action version of Harley
Jinx is 10x better. I cried and I empathize and wow I see a lot of myself in her. She’s a product of trauma. She was forged from coal and made a diamond. Silco was right , she’s perfect.
I hope you don't fire on us with Pow Pows
Wonderful analysis! Thank you for sharing!
Found a couple of your videos in my reccomended and I gotta say it's always a pleasure to see such well made videos with fantastic scripts. You have a lot of passion for talking about this stuff and it really shows, I love watching it. Very interesting discussions!
I really love your last point about how they withheld too much of Jinx from us throughout the middle episodes. It gives us this contrast of who we knew Powder as and who she is now, without fully investing us in the character of Jinx. This is why a lot of reviewers didnt even take to Jinx at first, a lot of us (including me) were still so attached to Powder, and wanted that version of her still, that the little they gave us of Jinx didn't really sell us. All it did was show us how she's changed (mostly for the worse) and it simply added to the heartbreak. All of this was intended tho.
I think the final tea party scene is not only for Jinx, and conversely Vi to choose who she'd continue her life as, but to have the audience finally, and fully accept that Powder had become Jinx. (If you werent already on board) Just incredible discretion in their writing process. It would have been so easy to oversaturate the show with Jinx.
This is crazy accurate, I felt the same way. Although I did find Jinx really interesting and admired some of the ways she changed (rlly advanced with her inventions, more assertive) I still felt off w her bc I was so attached to Powder and wanted her back. It was so weird seeing how different she had become in a bad way (mental health decline, lack of any empathy compared to sweet, innocent powder) The tea part scene did make me accept it’s Jinx now and there rlly is no way Powder would come back even with Vi’s return, she’s too far gone and as usual as her name states she is bad luck, she’ll get into bad situations be it purposely or accidentally due to her mh issues that stop her from getting better, like she’s happy Vi is back, back to protect her lil sis Pow as she couldnt before but then debates if Vi is betraying her for Caitlyn bc it felt that way. There will always be something in the way, ofc final straw being when she acsi kills Silco.
Harley: a welcomed crazy
Jinx: an inevitable crazy
I guess you can better compare Jinx's crazy with Cruella De Vil from the Emma Stone Disney movie. Cruella is kind of a toned down Jinx in a way: traumatized when young, creative (fashion wise instead of tinkering), obsessive about her mother's murder. But all three of them are attractive in a way.
Love all the Arcane related character breakdowns!
Omg so true
This video was fantastic! Thank you for making this
I do find it interesting how these videos comparing Jinx and Harley Quinn seem to focus more on the original Suicide Squad and Birds of Prey movies than James Gunn's far more effective reboot.
Incidentally, one thing no one mentions is how Jinx took the time to make sure Caitlyn got dressed after kidnapping her out of the bathroom.
I’d like to point something out and that’s how they respond to their instability and how it manifests.
With Harley it shows a loss of emotional balance and impulse control.
But it’s played for a joke like melodrama, it comes off as silly and largely inconsequential.
With Jinx? Even when she’s a kid she’s shown to beat herself over the head in the middle of a breakdown, and her loss of control is portrayed with haunting schizophrenic hallucinations and delusions that severely cripple her ability to think clearly.
Instead of hitting herself over the head now her own psyche is tormenting her with guilt and paranoia and it is NOT played for laughs.
In fact her most pivotal crises and tests of character are often twisted and ruined because of her damage.
watching powder having that mental breakdown was when i thought to myself: ah fuck here we go
Okay your analysis videos of arcane are so good
the first time I saw Jinx in an ad for lol gameplay I already love hee character design, and I saw arcane which made me love her even more... I love Harley Quin as well, Ive seen her in comics and movies and I adore her, then it hit me that the reason why I already loved Jinx way before I even watched arcane its because of her similarities with Harley Quin ❤️
I always thought of Harley as that repressed, pent-up woman who was influenced by the wrong crowd, got a taste of freedom, and all those repressed feelings and impulses just came rushing out all at once, and she never wanted to go back to it. I never thought of her that way, but comparing her to Jinx now made me see her differently. Harley basically embraces the YOLO and revels in it regardless of the shitstorm she causes as a result of her actions.
And what else is there to say about Jinx that hasn't been said before. She's a broken, insecure girl who hides it all behind a big grin and devil may care attitude, but certain triggers brings those insecurities to the forefront. Her sister is one of them.
In the movies, Harlie never really felt "insane". Like, I felt like she should have been insane, but I just got that she was a pretty crazy evil person who weilded a hammer as a main weapon. Not actually crazy
Jinx on the other hand, is genuinely insane, and you can see it. And it's heart breaking cause you can see why she is.
Yup. It is extremely heartbreaking. Even if one of the things you love about Jinx is her insanity.
I'm glad I was recommended this video, very insightful I enjoyed it.
Excellent insights into these characters. One point I think you overlooked in trying to understand Harley Quinn's popularity, this popularity was established well before the Suicide Squad movie released. It had been 14 years since her introduction in the Batman Animated Series. It was in that series, followed by her comic book appearances, that cemented her popularity. The movie was highly anticipated by fans, and perhaps it broadened the awareness of this character, but the movie faltered. The animated series did a much better job exploring Harley's psyche.
Even in the movies, though, she has moment displaying her complexity and humanity. But the writers present her in a method that ironically leads the viewer to sexualize and minimize her which is what Harley has consistently felt cognitive dissonance about. She literally exists in this state trying to identify herself apart from patriarchal and forced expectations. There's so much cunning and intelligence behind her behaviors and she isn't like "crazy without reason" as people paint her to be
I don't think the Suicide Squad movies wanted to portray everyone as crazy but more so portray itself along with it's characters as different or unique. It doesn't know how to make itself either of those two things so it just comes across as a movie consisting of character profiles. I do think both Harley and Jinx emulate that crazy yet sexy approach but clearly Jinx has more depth to her madness whereas Harley does it to seem unique and is a result of being with the Joker.
Suicide squad does crazy so superficial and just for the show. They have 0 knowledge about real crazy. It doesnt compare. Arcane is a masterpiece compared to everything suicide squad did.
@@truli91 cant say the same for comic harley
I'd be somewhat uncomfortable around Harley but I could live with it. Jinx is legit terrifying though. The child of Harley and the Joker done realistically
Amazing video!! Keep up the great work!!
I would really love to see you delve into topics other than arcane as well. Movie reviews or analysis seems to fit you really well and I'd definitely stick around to see a bunch of variety on your channel :)
I mean, Arcane is just far better done as a whole. So I dont even really think this is much of a contest.
Harley Quinn feels like her writers just went "let's make her crazy because that's funny." and in Arcane they actually give reason and purpose to the madness other than its fun to watch.
@@morantNO1 that's why I like Jinx more, and that's saying something cause I love Harley, well the animated ones
@@morantNO1 I mean… this video and argument is really not that fair for Harley, since it’s comparing the masterpiece of arcane with just the DCEU versions of Harley, and well, Harley exists so much better outside of the movies. Harley madness does have a reason of existing, and it’s explored in other media like comics and animated series. They are both extremely good characters and there is not one superior to the other.
@@raflexonics this is what happens when you have bajillions of versions of a char lol people will compare it to the most popular harley, can't blame them tbh having a lot of versions of said char is too much of a pain in the ass.
@@kinnngcruz884 fair, although I wish he had chosen another version of Harley. Or even aknowledged that the game version of Jinx is not as well written and it's super similar to live action Harley
Ive noticed that with Harley, it seems really pushed and forced that shes 'crazy' as a giant gag for comedy, like characters just flat out saying "she's crazy" and things similar to that- where as with jinx- no one ever really mentions it, but the point still gets across. They know shes unstable, and so does the audience without having to actually say it.
what are you trying to prove here
@@troopydc8219 jinx’s “crazy” effect just hits harder than harley
@@splavst read comics and come debate me
@@troopydc8219 we mean harley in the movies
@@troopydc8219 or i do at least
Going back and watching your videos, your editing and script writing improved a ton from here. Very impressed.
Not a bad video at all but I can feel that you're more comfortable in your future vids.
I accidently played the soundtrack of hellblade while watching this video without realising - I though it was the sound of the video. But it fits great! :D
Nice Video, loved to watch (with senuas ambience as background) :D
People: "Oh she is like Harley Quinn."
Me: "Harley Quninn wished she could be as interesting as Jinx."
This really offended me. I love Jinx but I read Harley's Quinn comics before and it's way much more compelling for me.
They are both interesting but saying that "she could be interesting as Jinx" just puts off that you don't really know well Harley.
@@codegl9237 You are probably right. I don't read comics and will not. Maybe Harley is interesting there, but on the screen she is very, very bland compared to Jinx.
Also, please don't get offended about other peoples opinion about fictional characters on the internet.
@@morantNO1 What you have said is not constructive criticism that I can accept when it's not really valid to mock a character. Disregarding the fans who care about her, and destroying an image of a 'fictional character' that was created by someone. I can respect that you prefer Jinx or even hate Harley by simply saying, "I don't like her."
I take offense when the 'opinion' is not mindfully thought, insultation. I'll talk when having the chance to defend someone's work on the internet. Sure it may not matter to the eyes of others and is not that controversial, but I recently helped someone to be open-minded from my perception of view.
But in your case, alright, I'll stop with you.
Have a good day. 👋
@@codegl9237 The constructive criticism is the content of the video my comment agrees with. Just do yourself a favor for the future and don't get offended so easily about other peoples taste. It does not help anyone.
Hmm… thing is Harley (on most of the adaptations I’m aware of) has been manipulated/brainwashed rather than driven into instability by a combination of bad luck and the world around them…
I suspect a more interesting comparison would be Jinx vs Joker….
I think this is a fine comparison, even if just to show how different Jinx is from Harley. I do believe that the Joker vs Jinx comparison is also one that can be made, even maybe one that would be more similar.
she is heavily inspired by joker and gollum. She only has the harley looks
@@lockekappa500 I’d also recommend ledger joker over any of the other… more comedic takes…
@@nickatreadinguni more like destructive as the ledger joker, tragic as the Phoenix joker
I think more so Phoneix Joker. He was always mentally ill, but the environment is what caused him to become violent similar to Jinx.
Schnee. This is really well done. Great job!
thx!!
I’ve seen people talk about “the secret good version of - that lives in my head” when talking about their love of less than great characters or shows. Like, regarding how people interpret and relate to characters even if the source material isn’t that great, and how they’d like to see that character portrayed and developed.
Jinx is that for me with Harley. I love Harley, but specifically the version of that exists in my head, and that version is a lot like jinx.
It probably helps that, despite all her sympathetic attributes, Jinx is the villain of the series.
This gives her more freedom to explore her insanity and delve into its destructiveness and instability, without needing to worry about making her 'too scary' or 'too evil to root for' (the argument of whether or not she's too far gone is an ongoing question in the series).
Harley, meanwhile, has recently turned into an anti-hero and icon for feminism (I feel like there were better choices for that, but whatever). Which means not only is she not allowed to do anything evil, but she's not allowed to be vulnerable.
This severely limits how much her instability can actually impact her actions.
the point of Arcane is that the true “villain” of the series is not one person - in the bigger picture it’s easy to see that the class system and capitalism are truly the “villain” here. even arguably the biggest antagonist in this show is not really the “villain”, because antagonist and villain do not mean the same thing. and that antagonist isn’t even Jinx, it’s Silco.
@@catboymiles7224
A good way of putting it.
Silco can debatably be called a villain, but really the overarching villain isn’t really the characters but the cruelty of the world around them that forces them to take extreme lengths.
They are all tragic products of the lives they lived in the places they grew up in.
That’s pretty much the only thing that can make an argument that caused all the terrible things to happen and it is perfect that way.
There are multiple icons of "feminism" in comics, Harley turned into one because throughout the years, her relationship with Joker evolved from sidekick to someone breaking from abusive relationship.
Also every character in batman has been turned into an anti-hero one iteration or another.
Actually no, in Arcane there is no real villain or hero, like a lot of the show it's up to you to decide who is the villain and hero, do you go with Zaun, a society who of people who don't want to be oppressed anymore, or Plitover a corrupt society of the filthy rich, you can't say that Silco is a villain because he wants a free Zaun, and you can't say that Vi is the villain because she just wants her sister back, the closest person you could say is a hero is Ekko because he really just wants shimmer off the streets and a fresh start for the people of Zaun, but he realizes that Silco has to be out of the picture for that to happen you can't blame Hermedingrr for doing what, he did because it was never brought to his attention the troubles of the undercity, Viktor isn't a villain or a hero, the only person you could definitely say is a villain is Singer, because of his obvious disregard of human life in the pursuit of science, but there are two main themes (that I feel like) which are: don't prescribe intentions and change,
Don't prescribe intentions because you don't know what another person is going through, like with the Jinx crazy joke I feel like is her testing her sister the unspoken question there is: what do you see me as, she is smiling because she has a hope that her sister still believes in her, which is what I feel like is what she says when she states 'you changed too.' It's her saying (to me) no longer see me as anything other than a monster, no different than the shimmer beasts.
@@catboymiles7224 yes but Jinx is also the core anchore in all of events happening in the series. She is the one that inacts change, mostly not out of intnention she originially had but her being a Jinx and fucking up intention is what actually changes the system.
Without her terror Zaun would've never be an independet nation and without Powder Jayce might have not been subjected for the prospect of actual success of Hextec and ability to truly invest in his research.
She is the victim of circumstance yetw the most effective of actually changing cricmustances and a villain at that.
Harley is erratic and random. With Jinx you can almost predict what will happen. She has a damaged psyche. So she experiences, and so reacts to, the world differently, but not illogically. As you learn about her you can see how her actions come about. Jinx is understandable. Devastating, tragically understandable.
It's so ironic cause, Harley's emotions are predictable whereas Jinx' emotions are so unpredictable and messed up
Yet, Harley acts randomly whereas with Jinx, you can always see ahead what she will end up doing.
Holy crap your break down of harley quin and the hulk is spot on!
It's literally the same with joker too, in fact you can see it in the types of people who are joker fans, usually really straight laced rule abiding analytical types
Georgia Dow did a video on silco and jinx's relationship, and its fascinating how silco is actually... an incredibly healthy parent to her. the main question asked was "what happens when someone who has experienced loss and betrayal (silco)- meets another lost soul (jinx)?" he takes up a role that they both needed, where despite being *a jinx,* she is "perfect" to him. in the reverse, she clings to him and he is terrified to lose her.
in the scene where Vi is trying to remind her of milo claggard and vandor, she doesnt realize that shes actually causing jinx incredible distress. these memories for vi were good, but jinx's trauma has tainted even the GOOD memories of this. its only when jinx starts melting down that silco picks up the gun and aims for vi, because he knows its making things worse. hes not perfect, but his and jinx's relationship is so powerful and meaningful and not unsettling at all. yall should check out Georgia Dow's video, she's a licensed therapist and her analysis is a lot better than mine XD