Is MASCULINITY Changing? (The Last of Us Ep. 3)
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- Опубліковано 14 тра 2024
- #tlou #arcane #lgbt
Men in fiction are changing. Bill from The Last of Us episode 3 is a prime example, but the male characters in Arcane, Stranger Things, Knives Out, the Mandalorian, Logan, and even real people whose stories have become popularized in movies like Richard Williams in King Richard, Desmond Doss in Hacksaw Ridge, and Elvis. But what's most interesting about this phenomenon is that the characters are still traditionally masculine overall, but through emphasis and de-emphasis and rearranging certain traits from our internal "lists" of what's masculine and what's not. The ways this is accomplished in both The Last of Us and Arcane are as precise as they are fascinating.
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0:00 - New male archetypes
2:16 - Bridge Traits
5:49 - Sanji, Vega, Cpt Jack
9:27 - The plate & Bill’s hair
11:12 - Arcane
14:42 - 80s, 90s, 2000s trends
16:57 - MY THEORY
22:54 - criticizing my theory - Фільми й анімація
Masculinity isn't the lack feminine traits, it's the lack of childish ones. I just got done changing the oil on my wife's car, but today I also sewed up a rip in my daughters doll.
It's really sweet how you sew your daughter's doll, but I feel like what you're describing isn't masculinity but being a grown up. It is by definition growing up from child to adult (thus lack of childish traits). Although it can be argued that some of us are just kids who grew up but still keeping the child in heart
Mmmm that a bar
Yes and no. Masculinity is defined by what women find attractive, so they defintionally have to be healthy qualities because these qualities have to build and maintain trust, safety, and vulnerability. It is the absence of childish traits, yes, but unless you want to attract a masculine woman, dont want feminine traits.
The current issues are that women are not feminine, they lack qualities that allow men to feel safe, vulnerable and trust with them.
Current culture has made it somewhat difficult, for some impossible, for men to find a suitable partner. A lot of us are just walking away from dating altogether because the dangers of actually approaching a women risk ruining your entire life. Movies and series just do not reflect the reality of romance and dating.
On the topic of friendship, masculinity is much the same when attracting partners, but the means are different. Be humble, kind, reliable, trustworthy and empathetic.
@@billmaster1157 sorry but I disagree, women aren't being "less feminine" we are redefining what feminine means. The op was correct in the fact that masculinity is the lack of childish traits because that's what it's turned into. It's no one's job to make you or anyone feel comfortable it's your job to find someone to feel comfortable with.
@@billmaster1157 that is not at all a definition of masculinity..
Been seeing a lot of discussion on masculinity these days and it makes me think a lot about my dad and the kind of masculinity I was raised with. On the outside he was a VERY traditionally masculine guy, I'd go as far as to call him a kind of "renaissance man" who could do and did do everything. He was a hockey player, had a 30+ year career in the army where he was a paratrooper, military police, air marshal, he served in 3 oversea tours and celebrated his 50th birthday in Afghanistan, worked as a truck driver and parliament security, he hunts, rides motorcycles and scuba dives in his free time, and now in his 60s he teaches sports to other old timers and plays in tournaments. He was big and muscular with a thick accent and had a bad habit of accidentally scaring my friends into not wanting to come over lol
But living with the guy I never really saw him that way. He loved to cook and bake and would wear his apron and watch daytime cooking shows to get in the groove. My mom never had to ask him to clean or help with chores he would just do that all on his own, he liked to sing along to old-timey french music and sad country songs, and hated rock because it was too aggressive. During his last tour he carried a little stuffed frog strapped to his rucksack, and at home he has little sentimental mementos hidden all around the garage. I've seen him cry more than I've seen my mom cry, and there was nothing shameful about it.
I guess this is just a long-winded way of saying I grew up with a healthy role model of masculinity and in retrospect I'm thankful for that. It makes me cringe so hard when I see guys today abuse and insult their own mothers, or put their wives down in front of their buddies like it's some fun joke. If a man raised in rural Quebec in the 60s/70s can get it right then I don't know what everyone else's excuse is.
Your father sounds wonderful, and it's wonderful that you took his example to heart.
Love, love, love your essay on your Dad!
Thank you for sharing your father with us ❤
Damn you got all that in one guy?
Don´t know the guy, but your father cool man!!
The hair bridge trait is spot on. Especially when Bill is having dinner with Frank for the first time and Bill does the cute little hair tuck behind his ear. It’s like classic flirting 101 but also like he’s aware of his appearance at the moment as well, and wants to make sure his hair looks good
YES! I rewatched the episode last night and caught that and it SENt me
I think the thing I noticed about Bill was that he isn't willing compromise on his standards, no matter what is going on. He isn't primping his hair, he's maintaining grooming standards even with the world going to shit around him. That's how I read it. Does he have someone to cut his hair? No. Does that mean he's just going to be unkempt and gross? Absolutely not. He has a certain way of seeing himself, and the standard he sets for himself within his principles, but it's suddenly being aware that someone else is once again objectively seeing him that makes him tuck his hair back. If he didn't have those principles, he wouldn't have cared, and him making that gesture wouldn't make sense. But it's because we've seen how he lives with intention that the intentional move in the presence of someone he wants to see him a certain way makes it that much more poignant.
@@Sparts17 You do words good 👍
Gross
As a gay guy w “masculine” and “un masculine” traits, I appreciate how blunt you are about the subconscious list. Yes, everyone who’s cool knows that this list is normatively bad, but for the time being it’s how we categorize people. This lack of walking on egg shells made your points much clearer and it really clarified a lot of undeveloped incoherent thoughts I’d been having. Great video!!
what are "un masculine" just say feminine
We're not talking about femininity. Just because it's NOT masculine doesn't mean it IS feminine. "Infidelity" is not masculine, does that mean that to be feminine is to cheat?
@@localthottie1255lol right?
@@localthottie1255 the video itself goes into this… It’s probably because there are other things that aren’t firmly in one list or the other. If something isn’t “masculine” that doesn’t automatically make it “feminine.” So “un-masculine” is a perfectly acceptable descriptor.
Ender was my absolute favorite for years!
Now that I've actually read your comment: could not agree more. Vey nice to see my thoughts spelled out sp succinctly. Wish discussion on sensitive topics could be explored more frankly without anyone being a dickhead.
The pairing of the picture of Remy from Ratatouille with the phrase, "Many chefs are very traditionally masculine men," really got me 😂😂😂😂
Films as a whole don't really portray much these days
Especially all the garbage thats been released the past 2 to 3 years.
oh yeah remy the rat, the most masculine men I ever saw hahhah
I agree. I thought a man that was a great cook has been traditionally a very good and masculine trait
@@maddogbasil Yeah, no more twinkishly masculine rats. Why even go on
Just try to keep in mind that these trait stereotypes only work in media as (and say it with me) "THIS IS NOT REAL". These are just characters guys, tgere is almost no real life application to these marketised traits as life is not written and people act however they wan't. This isn't a propaganda for or against this new trait movement. It is a mere statement of the fact that people are still people and not movie characters. People will not blow up a uranium compound while slowly walking away, neither will they start breaking down in a hysteric fit. Don't let media guide you or your values which you hold near and dear to you. Rembember that they are the ones who try to conform to reality and shape your perception of it like they see profitable. It is not you who should conform to their ideas, it is the opposite. Values are the ones you set to yourself. Don't let media set those values.
I think this video reflects exactly why Pedro Pascal has gained a lot of popularity lately. Letting aside that he has been doing fatherly caring roles, he's not your typically buff, over masculine movie star. He seems soft, warm and sincere. His fans even say that he's "babygirl". And that's what makes him so likable.
He's a normal "good" dad, like the ones that exist in much of the world.
Exactly, he keeps his toughness around people that he is protecting so they dont feel scared but when he is with someone that understand him he talks about how he feels, pretty realistic
I think Oberyn Martell from GOT in 2014 also has a role in this theory too. He's a masculine, charismatic, smoothly flirtatious, well-dressed, hot-headed but politically astute warrior out for revenge on behalf of his sister, and is openly and unashamedly bisexual without being stereotypically feminized. His lowcut outfits would be considered feminine by modern standards but show off his built chest in a very masculine way. He's one of the few men in the show that doesn't treat women as inherently inferior, and his desire to achieve justice for his sister and believe Tyrion fits into the protector archetype too. He's probably a precursor to this trend as he has all the same bridging traits and masculine roles outlined in this video. Pedro Pascal has shown that he has extremely good mastery at playing complex ideas of masculinity, so he's a natural choice for these current stories
@@summergirl4567considering Oberyrn Martell is still the charming, charismatic, womaizer type that many men are expected to be I don't think he's that great
I want more masculine characters who get zero pussy. I want to feel represented
@summergirl too bad Oberyn had a well... mind blowing end to his story
I related to Bill. Not with his sexuality, but his love. My wife gives me meaning in a relatively meaningless life. I do things for her because it makes me happy. It makes me feel useful, when my job treats me like a meaningless cog. She centers me and focuses me, and I saw that in their relationship. I actually teared up at the end, when they chose to go together. Side note, I’m also a huge fan of Arcane. =p
i Believe this is what the creators were going for! listen to the podcast it’s amazing
That's beautiful
It saddens me to read that.
Yet, the world needs you bc life has meaning. Not because is ows meaning to your person.
i think what really stuck with me from bill and frank’s romance was the fact that they were free to love each other without fear of what others would think. especially when you remember that since the outbreak happened in 2003, gay marriage was never legal for them, yet they were still able to find love. i started sobbing at the scene where they exchanged rings at the piano. truly a beautiful episode
Oh shit. I never thought of that 😭
BARF
There wasn't anyone to judge them. Everyone was dead.
@@allmenjoi8 He said that.
2003? The outbreak happens in 2013, or did they change that from the games?
Arthur Morgan fits very well into this paradigm. A rough, grizzled outlaw… who loves to draw, reflect on life, sing stupid songs, and take care of his horse. Oh, and he protects his friends in the end, then promptly dies. Legend.
Protecting people is very masculine
well thanks a lot for the spoiler lmao
@@Cloutzs been out for awhile now lol
@@Saintthorn yeah I picked it up late 😂
@@Cloutzs it says it in the name of the game lol
I really do love the protector archetype, it’s such a good archetype, ESPECIALLY when characters grow into that archetype, like guts or Kratos, who start off being more of the fighter archetype, slowly becoming more of a protector as the story goes on. I like that process of change, like a warrior who fought in countless battles, but now has a family who he needs to take care of, and can’t solve all his issues by fighting anymore, so he becomes more of a father. That’s not to say I don’t like the fighters, they’re both equally good in their own ways. I like the transition from one to the other pretty much
the one thing i dont like about that character are some of the "edgier" fans mininterpreting it completely
You completely misunderstand the topic you talk about.
@@theravenousrabbit3671 elaborate please
@@michaualtington yeah, like I’m aware that being badass wasn’t their ONLY character traits, of course this whole idea goes a lot deeper than what I said, I just simplified for convenience. I’ve seen a lot of people seeing this as just like, the characters getting weaker, but that couldn’t be further from the truth
@@rainy4902 There exists this idea in modern culture that stoicism and masculinity are somehow "Hard". It is a stereotype, particularly constructed by feminism and other forces that want to make the concept seem less redeemable, or otherwise positive.
It isn't stoicism or masculinity if there are no challenges, emotional difficulties, or pains to overcome, or with nobody to protect.
Masculinity isn't about being a murderous badass. That is just psychopathy. It isn't "hard" masculinity.
Masculinity is self sacrifice in defense of something you care about - in a very physical way.
When a father works 12 hours a day to make sure his family has a good future, he is masculine. Not when he gets drunk and beats up someone who shit-talked him. In fact, being emotional is more of a feminine trait.
Kratos isn't masculine when he's rage-killing. He's just being a psychopath. The same with Guts.
When they're killing to defend someone they love from evil forces, knowing he might die in the process? Yeah, that is masculine.
You're taking a strawman, that being that masculinity is violence, and then attacking that with your so-called "soft" masculinity.
This arch of having men reduce their role as aggressors, into protectors, has been part of myth, story telling and nature since time immemorial.
I think Train to Busan's character of Seok Woo fits this quite well, especially his development throughout the film. At the beginning he's the typical rich businessman who only cares about the money but throughout the plot we get to see him develop as a father, embodying the protector role and finding new motivations and drivers aside from just money and power.
i thought of him too!
I think jamie from outlander can also fit this. Jamie can kick ass, while also be gentle,caring and protecting i guess
I cant remember his name but the husband of the pregnant wife from that movie, he essentially embodies all of that perfectly, shame he had to die
That movie broke me
That movie destroyed me. The ending really had me crying for the next hour and icing my puffy eyes for the next 2 hours xD
What’s perfect about Nick Offerman in last of us is that bill is literally everything Ron Swanson said he would be doing in an apocalypse
Except... Ya know.... Gay
@@lINORSEMANIl I thought about that right after making this comment lol
@@lINORSEMANIl who knows, maybe the world ending could persuade you to change teams
@@lINORSEMANIland he was not drinking Lagavulin 16 whiskey
The best depiction of modern masculinity that I’ve seen in recent media is the character of Waymond in _Everything, Everywhere, All at Once._ He had agency (even though the movie first leads you to believe that he was meek and under the thumb of his wife), and his empathy is what ended up saving the day, not his mastery of kung fu (as Alpha Waymond).
Such a good fuckin’ movie
The difference of real masculinity between gays is being stick in principle and patient and females humility and discipline is different in gays boldness and diversity. We don't need to base our Identity in trend but understanding and commitment.
@@jeusmarcomascarina4102 What you wrote makes absolutely no sense, in every sense of the term. Please, try again.
@@eyespy3001 maybe you have no sense. Even I was not good in English. At least I trying understand. Maybe you are against on me. Trying to destroy my thoughts or either have no understanding my point.
@@jeusmarcomascarina4102 No. Neither of your two comments make any literal sense. Your English needs more practice since the meaning of your writing is incomprehensible with your current ability.
caring and mother-like male characters are just so lovely man, i don’t get why every male character should be either a
rageful maniac or stoic sigmas,
i love male characters that stand out, that have a much more gentle and compassionate personality that can be either the main character or a good supporting character
exactly! this is why fatherly roles llike joel miller or jim hopper stand out so much
the caring and soft nature is part of what makes Raphael from the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles so popular. Not just his rough n tough side. In every cartoon iteration he's shown to be tough on the outside, soft and sweet on the inside. But SAY that to his FACE and that'll be the last thing you ever do. Just like hurting any of his family will be the last thing you ever do. One of my favorite Raph moments is from 2003 where after his story in Tales of Leo he nearly burst into tears, but instead of letting his family see him break down, he went over to the window to cry silently there. It so reminds me of my dad when my grandmother passed; he didn't openly burst into tears, but did that stern silent cry but the minute I saw it it just....man. Kick to the gut.
@@erinbowers Yeah that scene where Hopper and El finally reunite was so satisfying.
FACTS! This trope is my weakness!! Din djarin from the mandalorian, red guy from DHMIS… these types of characters always get me man
father-like, if you will :) i also these characters they are very lovely
the only problem I had with Bill and Frank is that they made me cry so much. such a beautiful story indeed!
….gay thing threw me of hella hard but first time i felt so sad 😅 at first I was like kill him he trying to bring friends to take us over and lower our guard by the end I was in shambles wishing they could still be together.
@@gdraggon9589 I was so freakin sus of Frank, smh!
@@Hyperflow yeah I liked he romance but I kept being suspicious f him
🤢🤢🤢🤢
and they are disgusting degenerates
Kratos is another great example of this phenomena. In the last 2 games he’s still masculine af but on the basis of protecting his son, and guiding towards a better path than he took. Not only that, but learning to control your rage and trauma. Learning to care again after being hurt in the worst way
Damn good point
This is perfect. Kratos is a quintessential example of a shift between traditional masculinity and present day version of it. He is not afraid to be wrong to to apologise or to be vulnerable. But he has an inner honor and creates an aura of trust and security. Former Kratos was unhinged and lacked self control but was manly and strong AF.
@@rocketi05 this is all wrong. He is a complete mature man, all the rage of his first game was masculine yes but also childlike, he couldn't control his rage. He's matured a lot. Masculinity is masculinity regardless of age
So true. I’m watching my sister go through the game. She’s at the early stages so we’re currently judging his parenting choices😂
@@Zokalex Men in Malaysia often platonically hold hands. Like, just two mates or co-workers. You can't tell me most people in the West wouldn't find this unmasculine. Yet in Malaysia it is masculine. Masculinity is culturally and historically dependent. One man's masculinity is another's femininity.
As Overly Sarcastic Productions once said:
"Something more manly then 1 men ... are 2 men"
2 men together is as manly as it gets
@@pandorabox5532 What about 3 men together? 3x the manliness
@@owenchafer1083 by god its over 9000
'because whats more manly, than 2 men?'
that's the quote.
@@owenchafer1083 Okay hear me out. What if what if 4 men?
The last part of the video is surprisingly touching. The idea that we're manifesting fathers, protectors, and reluctant guardians in fiction because we're feeling scared, alone, and like we are insignificant is a beautiful sentiment, and I cant wait to see even more examples of men being vulnerable and finding strength and purpose through love! Amazing video as always!
Or the fact there is a serious lack of Father figures and fathers in general right now especially for blacks
@@arnowisp6244 this is a real issue which is not discussed and avoided sadly
Kinda like why so many superheroes had kid sidekicks back during World War II. Because a lot of kids' dads went off to war and there was no guarantee they were coming back, so it was up to caped heroes to be the father figures too.
@@arnowisp62441. do research on why black fathers aren’t in the household and come back when you can name the President responsible
2. Isolating a group of individuals by race and blaming them collectively for their own suffering without considering the systemic reasons for their low socioeconomic status is willfully ignorant at best, consciously malicious at worst.
3. Saying blacks like that in this specific context leads me to think the latter.
@Arno Wisp As opposed to non blacks, who are always perfect fathers.lmao
Uncle Iron and Aragorn are really good templates for masculinity. They love positive aspects of living and kindness while reluctantly having inner and outer toughness. They're not frail egos wrapped in aesthetic muscles. They're deep, caring people who use their strength to effect positive changes.
i think Aragon was one of the first characters that bridged the gap very well (atleast he was the first to introduce that type of masculinity to me via a movie). He was traditionally masculine with his sense of protection and determination, values honor and brotherhood/friendship. Has survival skills etc etc. But introduced not so traditional masculine characteristics. Like showing emotions, being respectful to women, writes poetry.
edit: with respectful to women im specifically talking about how he engages with them on an eye to eye level without putting them on a level beneath him. Cinema therapy has a great video about it called "ARAGORN vs. Toxic Masculinity" and they talk abou it at 11:45 onwards if anyone cares :)
@julian marx I see where you are coming from. And my approach/theory is that cinema has created 2 categories of role models: 1. A hero without flaws that gets thrown into his destined Role, and thrives within that role.
And 2. A hero with trauma/flaws or conflict that the hero has to over come, to become the best version of him self.
While 2 is more relatable and realistic for the average person
1. Shows us pureness ,like an utopian role model.
1.A hero you ought to be vs 2. A hero you want to become.
(Also off topic: I love Boromirs redemption at the end)
@julian marx er..Aragorn is absolutely down to earth, except his OP fighting strength. The shining characters of him is brave, honoring bonds and friendships, never give in to your own darkness, which can be seen in our own very life. The other characters that are shown to show us that he's indeed the true king, are his ability to lead and to respect people regardless of their origins, races or genders. Again, both are not sth out of this world.
He has flaws and he did suffer a lot, from his lovelife, from his bloodline, from his own country. From the true heir of Gondor to a lone ranger, or just look at him in the movies, does he look like a happy man to you??
Being respectful to women is a traditional masculine virtue.
@@adamgrogan1587 that’s… just not true.
@@TehPh1L masculine men don’t treat women badly, if you’ve learnt otherwise I don’t really know what your role models out there are. Masculinity is about self sacrifice and protecting those that can’t protect themselves
You can also see this change in the way they're willing to show declining male physique. Both Bill and Frank are shown to be struggling in some regard to their strength and fitness, Bill with his inability to keep up physically and Frank with his illness. This especially important because both of these things are traditionally feminine and or emasculating traits. Often times in media you see female character suffering from these sorts of diseases, and even if it does affect a male character its often not portrayed on screen. but yeah idk if im right or anything I loved this video and all of your other ones on Arcane!
My theory is a bit too nuanced for YT comment section. But, I think it may have something to do with Immune systems being vastly different.
'Sick wife' is definitely a trope, good catch
@@lordsandwich2309 women have better immune system
As the breeders they need it. A tribe that has 10 men and 100 women can survive. But one with 100 men and 10 women cannot
Most normal youtube comment thread.
@@MohamedRamadan-qi4hl BREEDERS??????????
One trope I love and glad that its coming back is the parent child or the wolf and cub trope. Where the parent came from a troubled past and decided to be peaceful to prevent their kid from going through the same experiences but are willing to reveal that “wolf” again if anything bad happens to their “cub.”
i'm such a sucker for this trope. it gets all the bonus points if it's found family, too
Kratos and Atreus 🙇
So Kratos and BOI
It's cool but one I also like is in Sekiro where spoilers: Owl adopts ''wolf'' and trains him to become this perfect ninja and there is the whole code of iron but it was all a whole plot to gain immortality but now the broken Wolf is the one becoming the protector of this other kid who is actually the most protective of them all
That trope has been back for over ten years and it’s shit.
My favorite description of what true masculinity is that isn't the rejection of the feminine, it is the rejection of the childish immaturity of boyhood. This was how someone described Uncle Iroh.
I can't think of a better description.
Mob psycho 100 made me realize what true masculine support looked like, the show is full of positive male role models, friends and examples of true self love and respect.
If you haven’t watched it you really should, it’s amazing.
Jesus, the way I've been planning my story for the last 8 years lines up with a lot of your theory of wanting to be a protector, lacking strong male role models, being scared of random violence and being motivated to feel safe from our own minds.
deadass, when he started mentioning the characteristics I was like "thats my OC"
@@raifkenedy3 same honestly, I guess that archetype had just been snuck into our subconscious.
Yeah! Fellow story writer! This trend fits so well for me it’s uncanny! It takes a main character perspective of the protector. He wasn’t always the protector, he actually starts off pretty bold with a female mentor as his guide. When she’s gone, he’s broken. Then meets someone who gives him the strength to go on and also becomes the person who needs to be protected (platonic friendship ofc because platonic relationships are important)
@@drownedmouse404 It's an instinct "archetype" that comes to you naturally. You're born with it.
It's called a 'cliche'.
I’ve always wondered about these things that you are calling bridge traits. Like cooking, being culturally refined, dancing, things like that seem to be to only be masculine if you’re super good at them. It’s masculine to be a head chef but not to be learning to cook at home. It’s masculine to be an amazing singer but not to start taking voice lessons. It’s masculine to be a phenomenal break dancer but not to just move to the music in a silly way. And I don’t understand why.
That's really interesting, my immediate thought is that this means these traits are much more about mastery/domination/competition over anything having to do with the interests themselves. Doesn't get more masculine than competing for domination against male peers -- what you're competing at doesn't really matter: could be sports, could be romance, could be shooting a crumpled paper into a garbage can.
Right but I’ve never seen being mediocre at, for example, basketball being framed as emasculating in media. It’s ok to just goof around and have fun and be bad at it. But in a movie the second someone finds out you are bad at, say, dancing you get made fun of. So there seems to be these two distinct groups of traits or skills. Things that it is not typically emasculating to engage with at a novice level. And things that it is only manly to engage with at a high level.
This makes me wonder if having mastery of a skill or trait within a typically feminine domain is associated with mastery Over women not just competition with other men. And that is what makes it fit within a masculine archetype.
@@robertzarfas9556 have you considered that our culture generally likes to mock inaptitude, regardless of gender? women who fail get laughed at just the same.
@@schnee1 Dominance has been the norm, but it is often performative. We are gravitating more towards authentic interests. There is no substitute for true passion and we are recognizing that.
@@robertzarfas9556 Depends who you play basketball with 👀
i love the way that each character in bullet train is written. they're all very masculine traditionally but defy the expectation for hardened assassins by being caring, flawed, and human. clementine loves thomas the tank engine but can absolutely kill a guy. ladybug is witty and smart but will admit when he's made mistakes and is guided by a woman he respects. great movie
Look no further than Viggo Mortensen in LOTR. Fits all the traditional manly traits whilst still being highly emotional and kind to all of the fellowship or otherwise. Honestly something we could all aspire to
Fantastic video called Aragorn VS Toxic Masculinity, worth a watch
gimli aswell, hes super masculine but so panicked all the time and i love that
I wonder if the dad from Bluey is admissible to this theory. I mean, it's a kids show, so it doesn't touch on the darker notes of the theme (i.e. single, reluctant, troubled, etc.), but he's still a father figure who prioritizes his children above all else, with traditional male values (likes watching sports on TV, ripping up stumps with friends, etc.) while also engaging in some bridge traits (situational aloofness that is more Dad energy than Loner energy, willingness to be embarrassed, extremely nurturing etc.)
Bandit immediately came to my mind as an excellent example of what schnee is discussing here. He's very traditionally masculine in many of the ways described - he's assertive, physical, hard working, protective, etc. But he's become something of an icon among modern dads because he's also unapologetically loving, nurturing, emotionally open, and playful. I'm not sure if the latter count as "bridge traits" the way schnee defines them, exactly - they seem more like traditionally-nonmasculine traits that Bluey's writers are consciously trying to establish *are not* (or at least shouldn't be seen as) "nonmasculine."
But Bandit is absolutely a modern masculine figure of the sort that were discussed in this video, and in a way, maybe the best evidence that this is truly a cultural shift, since he appears in a children's cartoon rather than a genre more commonly associated with transgressive or countercultural perspectives like dark HBO dramas.
(By the way, if anyone here hasn't watched it, Bluey's wonderful. Far more than a run of the mill kid's show about talking dogs.)
It’s a children’s show. You know, like, for kids…? It’s not that deeply thought out. I would also hope that in a show for children, the child’s actual father would fit into the ‘protector role’. That’s literally his job.
No no just wait when bluey grows up and gets kidnapped in france, bandit is going to bandit time
@@Daisy-uj2rt Have you watched the show? Bandit is certainly a "protector," but he's far from a stereotypical Western dad. And that's kind of the point.
Also, profoundly disagree with the idea that children's shows shouldn't be "deeply thought out." If anything, there's a bigger responsibility with something that children will be watching to make sure that what you're conveying is carefully considered. And "Bluey" is *fantastic* at this - they approach every topic they've covered with nuance and empathy (for both the children and adult characters alike), far beyond any other kid's show I've watched with my child, and oftentimes beyond 95% of adult programming out there.
@@peteryang5056 No I haven’t watched the show. Because I’m an adult. I hope you enjoyed learning the deeply thought out storyline & plot of your ABC’s, and how it’s good to share..
I want men that are well rounded people, hence forth characters. I am tired of seeing character traits tied to ones genetalia. You can crush skulls without flinching with your foot and also rock a crying child to sleep. Can love hunting without enjoying suffering of others. Can wear plaid or a loincloth but also have some killer make up on. Can prefer isolation and hate people but still give kindness and respect to others when you do meet them.
"I want men"
"tired of traits tied to ones genetalia"
There's a problem in your desire here. Traits tied to anything relating to a character are very important. Gender and genetalia IS an important "core trait" to a character and disregarding it all together should not be advised. This is where the fake and forced girlboss (who is just a male character, but female) comes from.
If what you want is just to escape the binary of male and female character, stop wanting "men" characters alltogether. If you want more interesting well rounded "men" characters then don't strip the core principles of what it is to be a man. You are right that most (traits) of them needs to evolve, to change, to get nuance and refined as media and society advance. But it's baby steps, and that's a good thing. We're trying new things, testing what sticks and doesn't. Striping the useful box that is "men" right now of everything we put in is a chaotic view of creating media. One at a time, with care, baby step. That's the (more interesting!) way to go imo.
Sorry for the ramble.
@@yawn9327
There are no personality or behavior traits related to just males. They’re seen in both sexes/genders. Society places too much emphasis on genitals.
@@yawn9327 I don't think they were saying that genitalia and perceptions of manhood don't matter at all. I think they're saying that much like real life most men don't fit into a perfect masculine male image, we're more complex than that. Simply put I think they mean that there should be more diversity when I comes to male characters. Not a binary that needs to be followed to a tee
that's pretty gay dude
@@lorenzodicapo6305
Lmao if you say so.
Anyone else think of ParaNorman?? Introducing the character as someone masculine before re-introducing them as a surprise aspect to reconceptualize people's perspectives on the subject group. AKA Mitch being your stereotypical jock with the writers obviously pushing him towards the female love interest before he says he has a boyfriend at the end of the movie. GOLD!
I personally love this new direction masculinity in fiction is taking, simply because I feel much more seen as a man myself with this direction.
To give context, I'm a pretty masculine guy myself in how I operate in the world. I dress in very masculine clothes, I talk in a very masculine way, I work in a very masculine job, I have a high tolerance for alcohol I can smoke weed like a champ I know how to fight, you get the point I'm a pretty manly man. And I'm like this because I like it, I feel very comfortable in traditionally masculine roles and I like filling those roles because it suits me.
But just because I fit neatly into a very manly box doesn't mean I don't have feelings. I like beer and fights and steak and NASCAR and all that manly stuff, but I also want to be loved. I might be manly but that doesn't mean I don't have a sensitive side. In fact I'm very sensitive. When people insult me I can brush it off in the moment, but it still hurts. I love nothing more than a long tender kiss from my girlfriend. When I've had a hard day I often just want to go back to my childhood home to get a hug from my mom. And God dammit I love a bubble bath.
Point is, I present myself as very masculine, because I am, and because I like it. But it's tiring always seeing men who act like me in media but without any of the substance. No matter how manly you might be, you're still a person, and I love this new direction in media where men can be rough and tough but also be sensitive, because that's how real people are. People feel things, people have passions and interests outside of their gender, people aren't just feminine or masculine. We are so internally diverse. And as much as I may love traditionally masculine heroes like Captain Kirk or Aragon, I think I much prefer someone like Bill. A man who is into all the same things I am, but that's not his whole personality. He wants a kiss and a kind word too, just like I do.
I really enjoyed reading your voice here and getting some insight on your perspective. I really love that ending line as well
Beautifully stated. Thanks for sharing.
Men shouldnt be sensitive. If you were to live in the 16 hundreds you would perish because of your weakness. Only the comfortable 1st world allows men to be "sensitive"
Puss in boots 2 is actually a pretty good example too!! There's this character that embodies boldness, physical capabilities, heroism. he's a dashing casanova. All traditional male characteristics (I mean he IS based on zorro) but on this new movie we see something very uncharacteristic: cripling fear and anxiety. Our dashing Hero turns out to be a bit of a spineless coward Who is trying to run away from death. He's emotionally vulnerable throughout the movie and uncharacteristically frightened.
The Bridge characteristic would, in this case, be his obsession with outer looks. Something we've seen plenty of times. He keeps his attire clean, he makes a darn point about being flashy and dashing. He cares a lot about his appearance. in fact after loosing the Will to live one of the first thing that happens IS that he grows a Beard! This search for outside validation and praise IS an ambiguous characteristic of his character. There's something traditionally feminine about dashing people wherever you go.
So back on topic. Check this out. His spinelesnes and cowardice is concluded in a laughably traditional masculine way. He actively fights death in a duel and the conclusion IS a gentlemen's agreement!! Hard to be more masculine.
So all in all:
The enmasculating experience (being nicked by death) turns out to define his new world view, while exploring traditional non-masculine traits like cowardice, emotional vulnerability and spinelesnes. This is linked to his more traditional masculine traits via his need for outer praise a gender ambiguous characteristic in traditional media.
Plus i have to talk about perrito. He's pus's fold afterall. Staunchly loyal and persistent he tends and cares for those around him (traditionally masculine traits). However, He's small, weak, emotional, empathetic and has an extremely positive outlook on life and the biggest heart (traditionally feminine traits). I think It's very interesting that they decided for perrito to be a male dog and I honestly can't see that happening 10 years ago.
just as you pointed out, He shows his more traditional masculine traits through his more feminine traits. He's persistent precisely because of his positive atittude and protective through his emotional availability and empathy.
also perrito literally just means tiny dog in spanish, but also dog in spanish is masculine. he’s a sweet caring character who also in some ways saves the main character and protects puss from that inner conflict, puss’s anxiety. so perrito is a tiny little dog who is also puss’s protector character
One of the things I wish for in Season 2 is more scenes of Vander and Vi together as a flashback and how he was training her. Honestly, I think this would be an excellent helper for their story, when Vander returns in the form of WarWick. And so does Vi when you realize it's Vander.
Good video btw :)
:( dude u just spoiled me some pretty big arcane shit
@@Friskyboi_- it’s just a theory
@@Friskyboi_- It's an unconfirmed theory people have based on season 1. It's not a spoiler since it's completely unconfirmed.
Can't spoil someone by just saying your thoughts out loud if you've seen the same content.
Oh! My bad guys i thought it was some league of legends lore or smth
@@Friskyboi_- If you read my comment well, you will see that I wrote "I wish" This means that this may happen or may not happen, Alright buddy.
Something to add to your theory: I've noticed that a very popular (if not CENTRAL) trend/theme in stories, to this very day, is found family. It comes in several forms; adoption, community, friendship, romance, and so on. It's all about finding the right people who you can feel comfortable around, who you can be your true, authentic self with, and it says a lot about people's desire to feel safe. So many people experience abuse, betrayal, fear, loss, and so many more awful things regardless of privilege (not to imply everyone experiences the same amount of hardships, but we've all gone through some form of tragedy due to the nature of the world we live in.) We all have been dealt a shitty hand and lack of stability, some from day one, which leads to a longing for "the right crowd." We strive for the love we've been missing, people who won't betray us at a toss of a coin, and like you mentioned, proper role models and true integrity. We're tired of feeling lost, so we naturally look for comfort in the movies, shows, games, books, and other stories we consume in our daily lives, causing found family to persist beyond most tropes.
Dude. You EXCELLED in presenting this theory. I actually have been thinking about this concept a lot but hadn’t put nearly as much thought into it. The structure of your storytelling is superb. Ive never seen someone deconstruct societal expectations of traditional male archetypes the way you did it here. I’m genuinely impressed.
I personally haven't seen it a lot in mainstream media so correct me if y'all have seen more of it than me, but this video really makes me hope we can get fathers showing honest to God affection and love (physical and emotional) towards their sons while not feeling as though that doing so "devalues their worth as a man".
SPOILERS FOR GOD OF WAR: RAGNAROK:
The only recent example I can think of is Kratos with Atreus in God of War: Ragnarok. It's sprinkled throughout but there are moments where gruff, rough, and tough Kratos shows tenderness and vulnerability to Atreus and they are NEVER made a big deal of.
They just are.
Favorite moment has to be when the bear Kratos fought off near the beginning turns out to be Atreus having accidentally transformed.
Soon after, Kratos, having been panicked and horrified at what he could have done, tenderly caresses his son's face and softly and regrettably tells him, "I could have killed you."
Man has really come a long ways. 😭
Me too. Most the examples in this video are father daughter relationships or brother brother. We need those father son relationships not just for their own sake but also to avoid patriarchy tropes that female characters have to be protected.
Yeah this is interesting because I know in conversations about SA or violence in America, we think about how these boys are being raised. Showing the male product (a responsible caring father figure of a man) is a step but we should also start showing how those people are created.
I'm a girl with autism. Which helps me understand men a little better. I don't show affection and love openly like normal women cause my brain is wired differently. Men don't either. Cause men aren't women.
@@lullaby218 You're saying men shouldn't show affection?
_Avatar 2_ has fantastic depictions of what you’re taking about, and it’s as mainstream as mainstream gets (#3 top-grossing movies of all time). Jake Sully is a family *man* through and through.
How did you forget about John Wick? He doesn't seem to have a large range in the movies. But he's definitely a modern version of a masculine hero.
He is describing protectors. Not revenge happy murderers who would prefer to be retired.
John Wick is not a hero. Nor a good role model.
@@SailorDoggo LOL 'Hero' in the classic greek sense not the Modern moral sense. John Wick is basically the action hero version of 'Don't Tread on me!'
But funny enough he fits in with the Masculine guy with bridge traits paradigm as outside of his murder rampage super-humaness... he's a basically a quiet single guy doting on his dog.
@@nak3dxsnake true we could call him a murder butt they killed his dog which us stated in the movie its technically his word which they killed which was a no go. So technically he falls in the protector role even if it was a dog not human.
While I agree with a lot of points in the creators video, I think he was a bit too selective and narrow when it came to the characteristics of masculinity. John wick embodies a lot of traits that weren’t listed that are still valued by men. He’s domineering, has silent perseverance, is a problem solver, has a strong air of self-sacrifice, has mastery of himself and leverages it over his situation. He’s a power fantasy to be sure, but he is also a male role model audiences can project onto.
The last part about us all needing a protector and role model really made me realise how powerful movies and culture are. For example I felt like Waymond in Everything Everywhere at Once taught me something really important , and i probably wasn't alone in that. I think maybe these characters have some very important and nice things to teach us all and I for one am so ready for it! And it fascinates me so much that movies could potentialy act as a help in personal growth of an entire population. Let's go!
I like this very much. I find myself looking back at parts of relationships with my guy friends. I tend to compliment people if i like something about them, whether I know them well or not. I didn't know until a friend told me that guys don't really get compliments at all, which is so sad.
I bring this up because i told a friend, after he walked me home after dark for the 4rth time in a row and never pushed or wanted anything from me, that he made me feel safe. He beamed, I'll never forget the look on his face, the smile he had, the way he puffed up his shoulders.
I'd seen him play futbol and get compliments that washed off him in seconds.
I also once told him he had a classic kind of handsome to him, like if he was a star from the 50s. he still brings that up... its been 5 years
I remember hearing an interesting theory about video game protaganists growing up with the first generation of video gamers. You start with kids fighting the big bad evil guy, then move to teens and young adults. Then games had more nods to more, "Adult" realism, doing the violent save the world thing in a grittier way. Then, you started seeing a lot of protector dads, like Bioshock, then flawed, complicated dads, like Bioshock Infinite.
Also, all the more reason to love Telltales, "Walking Dead".
We're going to get a wave of grandparent protagonists in fifteen or so years.
The walking dad
I love Telltales Walking Dead - doing a replay now!
twd games had me sobbing growing up! they're so good
That why most games turn me off now🙄
I feel like the show Hannibal is a great example of bridge traits in male characters. Hannibal, Will, and Jack all have bridge traits. I think it’s compelling that a story that began in 2013 and sort of accidentally waltzed its way into having a queer love between two men fits this trend.
One of the best shows ever made imo. It's a massive shame they didn't continue after S3.
@@actualamateur149it was good until the devil guy arc that whole thing was a bit ridiculous
@@sk8ermGs I mean they pulled it from the books. Just a mentally ruined man who created a new personality as a form of survival. 🤷🏻♂️
@@actualamateur149 I liked it until it seemed like the guy actually developed superhuman strength 🤣 loved the first 2 seasons tho.
@@sk8ermGs I can agree there. That was a bit much. Lol
8:11 To be fair lots of straight guys also act like that. I lived in a dorm for 5 years and its crazy how fast how gay hetero guys will get when in a relatively isolated enviroment.
And i think it should be normalised. Girls hug all the time and even kiss and nothing is questioned. Yet if two guys hands touches by accident then its gay.
But platonic intimacy i think definitely could have a positive effect on mental health or feeling connected to a group.
I think you're on to something here. It's pretty evident that our culture's representations of masculitnity are changing, but how and (more importantly) *why* is important. I think these changing representations are very important, because our society is largely starting to move away from the patriarchal norms of previous generations. You pointed out how modern masculine heroes are like pre-9/11 masculine heroes, but this is one thing that is different from them: the need for the masculine hero to be dominant over others. Characters like Bill, Vander, and Dinn Djarin do carry a lot if traditionally masculine traits, but they also allow others around them to grow and influence them in a way that is different from masculine heroes of the past. It's a pretty subtle distinction, but an often unwritten part of that list of masculine traits was "Not influenced by anyone except those in the highest authority." These characters have largely done away with this, as our concepts of what counts as being an "authority" are changing. We are in a society where the idea of "authority" is becoming less and less absolute and increasingly relative, leading to increasing values of egalitarianism. To use The Mandalorian as an example, Grogu isn't just a child in need of a protector and a father figure like he would have been under the old paradigm; Grogu is also the authority over himself and his own experience. Respecting Grogu's authority and autonomy in that sphere and changing his behavior and beliefs accordingly is a key part of Dinn's roll as protector and his masculinity.
You people are living in a completely different reality and don't understand basic mathematics.
@@johnwayne4911 i think im pretty proficient in math. and i absolutely agree with prophetisaiah's comment. not sure what youre trying to say here here
@@johnwayne4911
lol
Who is "you people" ?
Why do "these people" live in a completely different reality.
And what does this have to do with math???
I like your comment!
You are elaborate
:o)
@@johnwayne4911 What does their comment have to do with basic mathematics? I think you're the one living in a different reality here.
There are a lot of things to like about your videos. One thing I realized that I like across all of them is the font. I don't know why, but that font is very eye-catching and it makes the words feel important.
Obviously the content is what we are all here for, and why we keep coming back. Great videos, and great font.
Lol, I'm insecure about my font choice and you're the first commenter who's ever mentioned it, so thanks 😅
@@schnee1 I have been watching your stuff for a while and I just realized that I like the font today.
@@schnee1 I've always loved your font choice!
Absolutely! It's so readable/bold! Perfection!
@@schnee1 I love it! It really gives your videos a unique aesthetic, and that combined with the insightful and well-thought out content was what really grabbed my attention when I first found your videos, and why I subscribed!
This one single episode about two gay men was easily one of the best love stories I've ever seen. The character development and acting was incredible.
I was really impressed.
99% of "masculine" depictions in tv and movies are narcissists and vigilantes. Those men are like comic book characters. They are not real.
That final portion of the video hits right at home.. Mental strength is what males nowadays are trying to connect and learn to develop. It's about relationships with others that we want to strengthen.
Loved the opening scenes for Bill. I could just imagine all the "Don't tread on me" fellas cheering at all of Bill's prepper skills and knowledge. At first feeling represented, than wailing in despair and crying "Woke!" when he turned out to be gay, which it was confirmed he was in the game lore.
Bill was a badass. Total badass. All the stockpiling he did. Setting up the traps. The defenses. Taking a bullet to protect his love and home like a champ. The irony, for the "I'm an alpha male because I say I'm an alpha male" crowd..is that being gay is what made him such a badass. He grew up ostracized in a world that hated him and he hated in return. Probably spent his whole pre cordicep life bullied by everyone and the apocalypse gave him the opportunity for payback. Until Frank he was never afraid of dying and more than ready to go out in a blaze of glory.
cant even hug a bro without being called gay lol
You can only imagine it, because no one really cared that he's gay or not anyways.
@@Razumen elaborate
@@deletedkneecaps Elaborate on what? My point was clear as day.
Bill being gay wasn’t the issue. The issue was we wanted bill from the game. Them making the entire episode about a gay romance was off putting because of what fans wanted from Offerman’s Bill. They wanted gumpy, survivors’ guit ridden, bitter, and funny bill. They guy who has great chemistry with Ellie. Show bill just wasn’t that. The woke shit, the focus of a gay relationship that took away from the main story, pissed people off.
I think Peter Jackson's Lord of the Rings, namely Viggo Mortensen's Aragorn and Sean Bean's Boromir are pinnacle of manliness. They were strong, they were leaders, yet could be gentle and kind and vulnerable.
Aragorn no joke one of the best and most timeless representations of Masculinity and its archetypes in all of literature.
Yeah great. Being a man means being everything. Same old shit with a new lick of paint. I'm don't with this shit I want out
Aragorn is a manly man
J.R.R. Tolkien's Lord of the Rings. Presented by Peter Jackson, with two characters expertly acted by artists' .
God stop, just remembering the look on Boromir's face when Frodo has vanished and he realizes what had come over him is enough to make me start sobbing... Bless Sean Bean for such a great portrayal.
My dad is very "gruff" masculine. He hasn't combed his long hair for a LONG time, he's a metalhead, he's the sole worker of our household (I'm too young). He has a whole skull tattoo, he's very strong physically and I'd say also emotionally. But he also owns four cats, and guess what? His favorite shows are comedies and slices of life. He likes the Minions and anime. I guess his bridge would be how much he cares about his family. I used to look up to him when I was younger because of how he seemed so tough emotionally (I viewed myself as overemotional).
I love my dad :)
This was the masculinity I was raised with to me it seems ancient I'm glad younguns can enjoy it and embrace it
In Modern family, Cam is fiercely protective of his family and also loves sports and grew up doing farm work. He is dramatic and campy, but he also displays masculine interests.
I love that I don’t even have to have watched the lasts of us to understand and still get value out of this video. Schnee is an excellent writer and presenter of information in that way and I just wanted to bring up my appreciation for it!
Waymond from Everything Everywhere All at Once is such a good portrayal of masculinity too
It's funny. As a writer I find that I myself have been contributing to this trend without realizing. You really nailed the reasons why this is happening, I think.
Right? I was surprised to see his character summary and find that it matched the male characters I'm writing pretty much to a T. The idea of bridging traits wasn't something I'd thought of consciously but it's something I'll keep in mind from now on as it seems useful.
Excellent video! So timely too. I was editing a video exploring how the female action lead has evolved from light leather suits to vi, and realised that the male archetypes have gone through changes too. My favourite male leads are now, dads basically, like Kratos, Joel, Geralt (from the witcher 3) etc
To put a twist on a phrase I don't particularly like using, those guys show "healthy masculinity" which is, interestingly enough, the traditional role for men: being fathers, physical protectors, and providers. (This isn't to say women or mothers traditionally provide these things in a different but similar way. A Quiet Place portrays these differences well.) The reason why these characters are called "new" is because it's a shift away from the 70s and 80s action heroes. The 90s and 00s began the move away by highlighting brains over brawn but imho over-corrected in some respects. This last (let's call it a) decade of male characters has done a better job of balancing those aspects and doing it without putting down women in the process.
I think what’s also interesting is the departure from the traditional “Hero’s Journey”. In the end, the hero wins and takes his place outside of society and is unable to truly renter it (Frodo and Luke being peak examples). But now we want to see male figures become apart of communities which can be seen mostly in the Heroines journey. We want to see Joel and Ellie belong to a town and be safe. We want El and Hopper to be in Hawkins with their weird little group. It’s really beautiful and genuinely makes me happy
Vander isn't in a traditional "male protector" role, that would mean he just cares about "providing" for his children, ensuring they are fed and safe, but doesn't care about their feelings. He's in a more modern "engaged father" role where he actually listens to them, spends time with them, and mentors them.
Also it's funny how your description of the One Piece character 1:1 matches with Brock from Pokemon.
Figuring out what it means to be a man is always going to be complex, and right now with such big social change occurring, that is more true than ever.
I heard some advice recently that: "To be a man, you should be honest. Being honest to others is easy, but the hardest thing a man may ever have to do is to be honest with himself".
Oh my god, my dad used to throw that line at me all the time as a teen and i HATED it . . .probably because it was so true. Now that I'm grown up and can finally admit some things to myself, its nice to know his rough nuggets of wisdom weren't totally wasted on me.
I love how willing Schee is to be self critical in a positive way. He doesn't despair over his mistakes he builds of his good ideas and criticizes his bad ones and I think that's overall just a really healthy way to look at it
I don't think you're imagining things with Bill's hair. I noticed it too. I wasn't thinking about "bridge traits" or whatever, but I sure as hell thought several times, "Huh, for a rugged, gruff, loner survivalist, that guy sure uses a lot of conditioner!"
Lol even in a apocalypse we have to look excellent for a just in case moment-
I really enjoy the male perspective you can give on pop culture. It feels very genuine and I'm very interested and what you have to say next about the male characterization and how it applies to real life men in ways that I, an AFAB woman, can't see.
This is such a fantastic cross examination. Now I am very LGBTQi+ supportive, and I have to say the way they directed this was perfection, the way it's meant to dawn on you then go ooOOHH!.... It was so refreshingly unexpected and jarring, but in a great way. That quintessential "Gays act like gays in hollywood not manly" is why even i felt the pull of that ingrained cognitive dissonance of all that has come before, but all round, this is a great breakdown of these concepts in popular media 👏👏
This also applies to women in stories. Valkyrie Cain in Skulduggery Pleasant is a female character with 'traditional female stereotypes': she goes on dates with boys, she wears certain female clothes, her friends are women. But she a fighting hero who's buff af and who wears black leather armour and other traditionally 'masculine' traits. She turns out to be bisexual. Its the perfect bridge trait that makes that twist feel organic and natural and really fits well with the character. I'm glad I realise why this worked so well now, bussin video btw
A skulduggery pleasant reverence? havent heard that name in years
I still can’t find book 4 for this series, anyone know I can acquire it?
@@Goldfisher any big online book store should have it or a local book store should be able to order it for you. Depends on your area tho
@@heinshaaine8153 Kindle has all the books up to 15
@@jjsaphire5848 Many thanks.
I think the big shift is that men are starting to acknowledge that we are vulnerable people, that trying to act tough and hide our emotions and feelings is not healthy, and that we need to be able to express ourselves. So when we see these male characters who do show vulnerability and do break down, we cheer for them, where I'd prefer that over a rambo or terminator any day of the week. Hell, one of the absolute EARLIEST examples of this type of male character is Zuko, Aang, and Iroh from Avatar, 3 male characters who each have a lot of personal struggles while also showing vulnerability and compassion, where we love them and want them to succeed against the tradition "man", Ozai, who shows cruelty and inhumanity against others, who does show the typical male tropes in the most horrific ways possible.
The issue is it was ALWAYS there people just got caught up in the assumption of how media presented it. It always been there people just didn't care to look.
Rambo in First Blood was looking for the LAST friend from his unit in Vietnam he found he died from cancer. He was mistreated just for trying to get some food. He did what he did because the cops triggered a PTSD episode due to their mistreatment of him. At the end of the movie Rambo only killed 1 person and he broke down crying and went to prison for it. Terminator even better the 2nd one, You had the T800 being a father figure to young John and John showing the robot how to be human and then you have Dyson willing destroy everything he did worked on because he realized he messed up. He died for it.
For an anime perspective it's Hokuto No Ken, Saint Seiya, and Yu Yu Hakusho. All old as hell
No offense but I laughed at your comment because you couldnt have picked 2 worse counter examples.
A) the Terminator was a machine not male so does this even apply? Plus in T2 the Terminator is reprogrammed to protect John and through Johns love and vulnerability his AI learning takes on a fatherly role. Sarah even says he is a better father than any other man in Johns life.
B) Have you even seen First Blood?! The whole point of the whole movie is how veterans are misunderstood and mistreated. He is vulnerable and tries to reach out to people but is shunned at every turn. He speaks but no one listens. He doesnt want to hurt anyone, the only person he kills was an accident, they drew first blood. The monologue about war in the end where he breaks down his trauma is tragic. The movie did such a good job illustrating psychological trauma that it brought public awareness about PTSD for the 1st time to the American public and changed the way Vietnam Vets were treated.
Its frustrating to see people act like there have never been vulnerable or complicated masculine roles because weve had them all along. Its like Jennifer Lawrence declaring herself the 1st female action hero star recently. Its just not true.
@@sergeantbigmac Exactly. I don't know why they keep saying this.
@@migueljuarez6788 It's because they're assuming such. A lot of those action / dramas movies had these moments and lessons. Like Avatar took a lot from Hong Kong Kung Fu and Japanese anime tropes
I love your overall comment, but the best part of Rambo is his vulnerabilities, when he does break down, when he mourns his brothers. Actually Rambo and the terminator in T2 would be interesting to include in this analysis. Especially because I think you’re not alone in remembering them for machine guns and not those other elements.
Growing up in South East Asia in the 90s, my dad always helped with house chores. He loved growing things in our super small garden, he liked keeping the house clean, he would wash the heavier stuff, like denim or bed sheets, to help mom with laundry (we had no washing machine). He liked to run and exercise, watch sports on tv, and historical and fictional movies, read books (he would even cry openly when he gets to the parts that really connect with him), and he liked listening to rock music. My dad was very affectionate towards us. He was very different from my grandfather, uncles, and other dads who were distant and strict with their kids and didn't help with chores. He seldom cooked but that's only because mom does it better than him haha!
Both parents had to work full time to provide for me and my younger sister. Our mom had the bigger salary and would often need to go out of town for seminars. During that time, dad would fix his work schedule to work with ours (he was a cameraman, and he can change shifts with his buddies). He would wake us up, get us ready for school, etc. A thing I always remember that he didn't have to do, but wanted to do for us, was to style our hair in the super popular style of the time, the zigzag-parted ponytail! 😂 And when we were teenagers, he would tell us to switch our look from time to time, so our friends don't always expect us to show up in t-shirts and jeans lol. They both showed us healthy parenting and that husband and wife are supposed to help each other wherever they can, not based on gender.
Missing him for almost 10 years now. Love you, dad!
The most manly thing you can do is not be afraid to be yourself.
Be masculine enough to accept those things about you that might not BE so masculine
I think that question on all these "fend for yourself, do this for yourself, be dominant, assertive, but for what?" WAS REALLY perspective changing. I KNOW what I want to be already and that is why I kind of slack on building masculine traits
We all crave acceptance and connection. Society tells us traditional masculinity will provide these, but instead it hides our individuality. How can anyone understand us if we are not ourselves?
This is what makes Bill’s story so impactful. We don’t realize what he’s missing until it’s staring us both in the face. Frank sees Bill, through his gruff facade and denial, and accepts him. This allows Bill to finally accept himself and start living. Frank saves Bill. Bill allows himself to be saved and finds his purpose. Seeing this hardened, bitter person find love and acceptance is a thing of beauty. Note: his masculinity remains perfectly intact.
Self acceptance is the first step, sounds like you found it early @Bob Bobby. This episode of TV got me a lot closer and for that I am grateful.
Part of being a man is protecting and providing. So.....
@@wyattcoe8825love and acceptance are incredibly rare... Sucks but that's the honest truth
In the meantime you should learn to live without connection, because sometimes it just doesn't happen. Sometimes people push you away for no reason and you've just gotta love with that. Sucks but it happens
I'm the Bill in this situation. Sometimes there is no Frank
Do all of those things for yourself. Sometimes there aren't people in your lives. Partners can leave you, friends can turn their backs on you, your family can disown you
It's a very real possibility, and if that happens do you just stop living and give up? Sometimes there are no people around
@@painunending4610 Been doing it for a long long time 🙃
Millennials have come of age.
When we were kids we read coming of age stories that explored the transition from childhood to adult. Now that we’re here we need stories to guide us how to be adults.
Look no further than the first The Last of Us game and the God of War reboot.
Lmao, speak for yourself.
It's refreshing to see someone actually TALK about this instead of just criticizing and condemning it for no good reason.
Bill is more of a man than any of those homophobic shitheads spewing their hateful shit around the internet to protect their fragile masculinity.
I have no clue how long it took to make this video, but watching it feels like a mountain of work. The video is demanding, because its pace is fast, but combined with the voice AND the on-screen texts, schnee is able to present this topic in 25 min, whereas it would take others 45+ min to do the same. It’s why I love this guys‘ videos so much. Not only are the videos very demanding of attention and focus, but they also are packed from start to finish with very detailed and fleshed out arguments. Schnee always raises a thesis or a claim and proceeds to bring forward loads of evidence, interlinking his claims until he has build a very strong front for his arguments. Finding things to counter on, to disprove his claims, would take a shit load of time and I‘m not even sure you‘d be able to find something to dig up, just because the level of attention and detail this man puts into his thesis’s and therefore his videos.
Expertly well done content and I have mad respect for the work put behind it!
Watching this video, I’m realizing that I’ve been subconsciously writing about all the points you’ve discussed in my own writing project. The antagonist fits your description of the false/evil male role model, and the protagonist fits the description of a masculine male who protects his friends, cultivates his own skills, and wants more than anything to be a good person with integrity.
But all that aside, this is a great analysis. I hadn’t considered the wider cultural factors, but the way you explain it makes a lot of sense. I’m personally a sucker for the “badass action guy with a kid/found family” trend we’re seeing and I hope it continues well into the 2020s.
I find written media is often a bit ahead of the curve of visual media. The production and distribution are more efficient than a movie or animated series (especially with the internet and self publishing) so you get a faster turn around of trends. The super masculine male survivor type finding gay love in the apocalypse is totally normal in written fiction at the moment. I've got books from 2013 that fit that character mold (granted they were rare back then and have become steadily more common). It's awesome to see this character type coming to visual media.
And presuming you like to read if you're a writer, it's no wonder you were already crafting characters who are seemingly radical in visual main stream media. You're ahead of the trend even if you don't realize it.
Also good luck with your writing! It ain't easy!
Personally I'm bored of the 'badass action hero who has a kid he loves' trope and think it's already getting played out
It's the same old 'men as protectors' stuff to me. Give me a character who says fuck them kids
The most popular cartoon character today I'd say is Bandit from Bluey because he is a dad who gets on his kids levels to play with them which is very unique for adults portrayed in cartoons.
Bandit is great. You can tell that the writers for Bluey are in fact parents themselves. I'm more than happy to play the part of Bandit witb my kids. He encourages his kids imaginations and I try to do the same.
Well presented dude....Its always nice when you see something that is out of the ordinary, that you think is your own perception, but then when you have someone like you who articulates what I was thinking but unable to do so, its a real help.
Thanks.
I love the way you said “once we find out he’s one of the gays” 😂😂😂
I love this concept of Bridge traits. It adds so much to the characters and yet can be overlooked so so easily.
I also love how you brought up the idea of the associations between straight and gay tendencies and identity. I remember a quote from Toby Stephens, one of the stars of the absolutely amazing Starz show, Black Sails (Which demonstrates so many of these new ideas of masculinity and more, good god, that show has changed my entire life). He talks about how so many people were confused when his character was revealed to be queer, as he was such a traditionally masculine character at the start (Though there are so many bridge traits hidden in there on closer inspection). He says, though not a completely direct quote, something along the lines of "People forget that a man can be two things at once."
Amazing video as always. Whenever I think masculinity, I think it of a My Hero Academia character Eijirou Kirishima. There’s a video essay dedicated to how he depicts masculinity and it’s worth the watch. I’m happy how masculinity has been redefined as of recent. It’s a breath of fresh air.
Do you have the link?
@@disconsolate3235 ua-cam.com/video/OCmOkLqDouU/v-deo.html I think! It's a pretty well done video.
@@hahahahahahahahaa6580 thank you!! I’ll check it out ^^
Oh my GAHD! THAT'S MY BABY THEIR TALKING ABOUT!
*cough.
Yes! That is what I like so much about Kirishima as well! He loves manly stuff and calls even girls being manly. To him manly is gender neutral and him being friends and hinted as having romantic feelings with Bakougo, a character with a lot of toxic male traits, says a lot. They balance each other is what Im saying. Bakugo respects Kiri while he abhors Midoriya (which is really unhealthy for the fandom shipping them as well) I could gush on but I'll just leave it there for now.
Basically whats more manly than falling for a fellow man?
@@dandelionmosssycamore8218 I don't think its been hinted at that they have romantic feelings, they've only really ever been shown in friendly terms, the closet kiri has had to romantic feelings has been shown with mina, but even then its still not certain
basically just gonna say don't really treat those relationships that may not exist as the truth of it, it'll confuse people or worse annoy certain others.
First video I've seen of yours and I paused right in the middle of it when you were talking about Arcane, then proceeded to watch the entirety of Arcane, and now I'm back to watch the second half of this video lmao! I do have to say Arcane was fantastic and I can't wait to see your video on it
You were able to distill a lot of things I've been noticing in portrayals of masculinity that I've been trying to put my finger on. I think the "wanting to feel safe" is what really made it coalesce for me.
Honestly I think it's awesome that they're showing men can be more than just the "masculine" traits they are still human people who have emotions among other things
OMG BILLS HAIR! I also noticed it. Bill is shown in such a stereotypical american male way that at first i did think it was his house at the beginning of the episode. My first thought was that he's supposed to be a stereotype of a guy who lives in his mums basement. And the the moment he and Frank meet and you can very clearly see the hair and how brushed and clean they are. At that point i didnt think anything specific about it but it did caught my attention as sth different that what we usually see
My god I love your analysis schnee. Feels so good to see you connect the dots and bring some order into the chaos
This was a beautiful video essay, I'mma share this around.
Thank you!
This video is amazing! I’ve been seeing a lot of this “protector” role being flashed out. It’s not about rescuing the kid or young girl from her kidnappers anymore, like Liam Neeson and Denzel Washington, it’s deeper than that. It’s not only about survival, it’s about the “protector” providing HAPPINESS as well as physical well being. We see that with Hopper, Joel, Steve, Bill, and a bunch of the other characters you mentioned. I think this comes as a reflection of the development of the ideals of safety and “fatherhood”, which is the ultimate “protector” role. I do believe we are writing more and more the fathers, brothers and lovers we wish we ACTUALLY HAD (or we do have) instead of just trying to make a masculine ideal. Basically, who is the protector who actually protects? It rarely is the super “masculine” egotistical one. It’s the soft one who listens and respects. And I’m all here for it.
But does this mean the rescuer archetype is bad or non-masculine? Or should their be a mix of both. Interesting ass questions
Why is a male role only about protecting?lmao why are males identity only linked with giving protection?
Love that you're continuing to create such thought provoking videos about systemic archetypes we find both amongst the every day society and reflected in our media. Keep bringing these new questions to light! I love having to keep thinking about these new perspectives!
A friend once invited me to a gay bar at Mexico DF (I'm trans... I didn't quite fit in there)... but that's where I first saw the "BEARS". A bear is a very specific type of gay. Utter masculine gays, they pride themselves on being corpulent, strong or robust, full of hair and large beards.
That was over 15 years ago and bear culture had been around for…well, for as long as the LGBT community has been around as a rights group. In other words, for many decades.
These characters do not represent a "new masculinity"... they are the visibility of this group of gays, who break the stereotype according to which gays must be effeminate or very delicate men.
Now, this presents another paradigm: if you're a straight man, you can still be sensitive, artistic, having home skills and caring about your loved ones, while still being masculine. Without ceasing to be a man, without ceasing to be straight.
That can also stem from this episode.
as a trans woman, YES, i totally agree. ive been wondering about how masculinity had been changing and you hit the nail on the head.
and for what it is, i love that you recognize the need to feel safe for us all.
ugh such a good video. I would agree with the definition of this current trend in masculine storytelling. What's interesting is that our culture is actually killing the old masculine archetype and demanding a new masculinity, from women and men both. Women because they want more emotionally vulnerable men as partners, and men because it is lonely and isolating to continue under the male archetype. Discussions around masculinity is extremely relevant nowadays and I can't wait to see the stories that emerge/respond to these discussions.
I recommend you seek out Joseph Campbell's "Hero with a Thousand Faces", it's a quick read, and you clearly need some perspective on the historical/"traditional" masculine archetypes because you seem to be under the impression that tyranny has been the tradition model of ideal masculinity.... which is so completely wrong I don't even know where to begin to demonstrate how wrong it is; I cannot think of a single example, in the entire corpus of cultural myths/religions/narratives throughout history, that has presented the tyrant as the ideal masculine aspiration. The epic of Gilgamesh is literally the oldest story we have and the whole saga is about the transformation of Gilgamesh from a tyrant king to a benevolent king through a process of humiliation, loss, failure, and empathy.
Interested how women say they want emotionally vulnerable men yet tons of guys get bad reactions when they do
@@migueljuarez6788 cause some women are still influenced by the toxic idea of what should a man be like
@@lancewalker2595 hmm thanks for the recommendation. I don't believe that tyranny has been the traditional model of ideal masculinity. I say archetype because there are multiple archetypes for masculinity. :)
Women don’t want emotionally vulnerable men. And men don’t need to become emotionally vulnerable just bc women say they do. That’s sexist.
Thank you for another beautiful, thoughtful video ...that touches both an analysis and exploration of a specific piece of media, but takes the time to zoom out to how it 'fits' into the times it was birthed it. I really resonated with your point that we do need different things from our (male) characters these days -- we're looking for integrity in a time when masks are coming down, as you point out. I so appreciate the analyses you are doing. Keep it up - these stories are fun to explore together. Also - awesome that you're visiting Panama right now (as another mixed-race kid, with a mother from Panama), it's cool to see you enjoying a place I have connection with. Enjoy your travels!
came into this expecting a tate fan crying about masculine queer people, but you subverted my expectations in an amazing way. Extremely well put together video!
My thoughts on the episode are just: wow. I personally think its a masterpiece and the hour long run time is not waisted in any of the scenes in terms of the singular episode story and the bigger story with joel and ellie. I was trying to break it down and analyze this episode for myself and u just put into words some of the things i couldn’t quite articulate but took from the message of the story. Great video!
I’m thinking about the game Hades and how the protagonist has all the makings of your typical fighting game. But then they give him a soft voice and make him compassionate. And it feels so fresh! I think we’re all just starving for depictions of men who are in touch with their emotions
I know someone else pointed out the RRR clips, but RRR is the best friendship film I’ve seen
I cried 3 times during that episode with Bill and Frank 😭😭😭 (Also, a friend told me how their story went in the game--SOOOOOOO GLAD the writers changed it for the show!!! The show version is infinitely superior!)
I keep coming back to this video. It's incredibly well made and so, so relevant. Just excellent work man 👏
You’re point about bridge traits was very interesting. They definitely feel like a good way to make a character who initially fits into one stereotype naturally develop in our minds as we learn more about them. Not all characters need to change like that in the eyes of the audience to have their own character development, but it’s a very good way to make a character feel like they had already developed past the point we expected when they were introduced.
Waymond from “Everything Everywhere” for example is a good way to subvert masculinity by initially giving him non-masculine traits. But, by the end they show that he is assertive and driven. Even going further to have him explain that his kindness does not come from a naive understanding of the world, but rather a desire to fight for a kinder future.
See that's the thing I have trouble explaining in real life: Just because I'm gay doesn't mean I like to do makeup or brush my hair to perfection every morning or wear tight-fitting clothes. I like being masculine and I'm attracted to masculinity. That's it, nothing more and nothing less, but people have a REALLY hard time understanding that.
Also being artistic is not a gay trait, fuckin' Orion. I draw big sweaty men too, alright? All forms are important.
It's interesting to me, I'm kind of in the middle ground because I still put value in men having traditionally masculine traits, while understanding that a fixation on these traits can be detrimental to the people in ones life as well to the men themselves. Placing a greater emphasis on "to what end" is an amazing way to get us to find meaning in our lives, I've noticed that while more and more men these days are trying to be masculine they usually also experience deep insecurity and emptiness because they have no passion to focus into. I am trying to be more masculine as some of the traditionally masculine traits can be very beneficial to ones life, self- sufficiency, boldness, and courage to name a few, but without sacrificing my not-so masculine traits, like compassion, emotional openness, and empathy. I for one want to be a father and be able to provide for my future wife and children outside of just material needs, or protection, I want to be there for them emotionally too. I love the new found family fatherhood trope, it's got to be one of my favorites. I've also noticed that a lot of the time people who exhibit "Toxic masculinity" aren't very masculine at all, they put on a show for their own sake without having the confidence or boldness that genuine masculinity has, real men aren't afraid to show emotion or be kind because doing those things won't hurt a real man's pride, it'll reinforce it. Toxic masculinity to me doesn't seem to be an epidemic of overly masculine people, it's an epidemic of people acting masculine while not having any of the traits genuinely associated with masculinity. Just my thoughts tho
"real men aren't afraid to show emotion or be kind because doing those things won't hurt a real man's pride, it'll reinforce it." 1000000%. it's always laughably sad whenever i see those hypermasculine dudebros say that someone is a failure of a man for... *checks notes*... cuddling their child? or wearing a dress to match with their daughter? or being a stay at home dad? opening up about their vulnerabilities? showing emotions and love????????
your thoughts are appreciated!
You inadvertantly stumbled upon the definition of toxic masculinity lol. Something that often gets confused is people think we are saying masculinity is toxic or they are masculine with to a toxic degree. But Toxic masculinity refers to the parts of masculinity that hurt men and those around them such as an inability to show ones emotions, violent anger, self entitilment. All of these are toxic forms of traditionally masculine traits (stoicism, aggression, confidence) that like you said get like this when you don't understand masculinity and are only emulating it.
@@Whysoshort Exactly my thoughts
Ironically, poetry, art, makeup, emotional openness and many modern “feminine“ things are literally the OG masculine traits.
Lotta traditional conservatives don’t seem to get that, and it’s quite amusing to me. They have chosen a select few traditional masculine traits and have assigned the rest as feminine. Based on right wing, modern political view of the nuclear family that came into popularity around the turn of the 19th century.
@@tricksterjoy9740 look at the ancient spartans for example, masters of all arts, be it martial or cultural
I want to write paragraphs, but honestly?
This is simply one of the greatest videos on masculinity, let alone film, which has ever been made. Really.
100/100 video. Your work is wonderful! Thank you for making/posting.