Spider-Verse 2's Most WELL WRITTEN Scene (Gwen & Dad)
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- Опубліковано 14 тра 2024
- #spiderman #spiderwoman
Gwen’s final scene with her dad in Across the Spider-Verse has some of the most intricate writing I’ve seen. There are layers and layers of subtext in the dialogue, the actions, the reactions, even before the main part of the scene begins. Then in Gwen’s emotional conversation with her dad, we see even more layers in the exploration of the two characters, their relationship, and how it relates to the main plot (despite the absence of Miguel, Miles, Peter B, Jess, Hobie, or any other main plot character). This scene deepens our understanding of the connection between spiderwoman and Captain Stacy, despite their differences, and shows us the powerfully efficient way they’ve chosen to illustrate it to us.
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0:00 - the first 45 seconds
9:05 - the heart to heart
11:02 - gwen’s smile (invisible soccer ball) - Фільми й анімація
I feel like her smile is also showing relief about her dad's fate, and as consequence that gave her more confidence that the canon can be broken and that she can save miles and his family.
I agree completely with this
That’s how I “read” the scene too
That’s a far easier explanation and it’s great. Thank you, bro!
I also love a detail regarding this in the scene where Miles and Gwen speak while upside down. Miles is the one that tries to get closer with his hand first, but then retreats after Gwen states the fate of every other Gwen. By the end of the scene tho Gwen is the one that leans against Miles, possibly foreshadowing that things can be different between Gwen and Spider-man
@@shagarumedic Gwen was testing miles in that scene, miles like gwen but the movie shows that gwen is obsess with miles. She told him that in every universe she falls for Spider-Man but things ends badly to see his reaction, miles took a leap of faith and told her that it’s a first time for everything which is something she was waiting to hear from her happy expression. Miles cutting gwen of was for the best as she had a character arc, she was scared of expressing herself after what happened with her dad, Miles is my favorite character since part 1 but gwen is easily the best written character in this film and some people don’t understand her so they just hate on her.
The color symbolism in this scene is crazy tho, the way they're sometimes the same color, sometimes her dad's face is the same color as Gwen but his *cop* suit isn't and sometimes they're just completely different colors, really sells their emotions but also enhances them. You realize when they're getting closer to each other, when Gwen realize she shouldn't have said the joke about killing friends and when they're finally on the same page. Such an amazing scene! Looking forward to more vids on this movie
Also how dark and sad the colours in the beginning of the conversation are and in the end it's just white, that's cool too I think
Someone in UA-cam comment said this but you only see Gwen’s pink highlight hair during times of emotional vulnerability or being Spider-woman. When’s she’s being honest or hugging her father, being with miles, having the costume on.
While I kinda rolled my eyes at first (mostly because of clickbait “Is Gwen trans?” articles), i can now see why the trans community connected to the character.
@@BeaverChainsaw agreed.
@@ryaz_arts2490 agreed.
Same.
It’s crazy a comic book movie can be so great that best scenes aren’t the action scenes. They’re the scenes where characters are just talking. Truly a masterpiece
I've always thought that animation's greatest strength is in making the mundane extraordinary.
You can do things in animation that a live action movie could only dream of doing, simply because reality has limitations. Camera angles that would be physically impossible in reality, visual effects that can't be replicated in the real world, movement that no human could ever do.
Even live action makes heavy use of animation these days. Every superhero movie out there uses copious amounts of CGI. The credits for them have ballooned in size in large part due to the enormous number of animators giving movies the spectacular visuals audiences have become accustomed to.
@@PenguinLord10so true
It's sometimes said that the best special effect is two actors talking. The fact that they were able to do that with ANIMATION is absolutely incredible.
The art styles really help too, like gwen's environment color pallete changing to match the mood of the room
Agreed 💯💯👏🏽👏🏽
"I was just out murdering all my friends" Is such a powerful line beyond the thinly veiled joke. I believe the line to be partially true from Gwen's perspective. At this point she had just come back from the chase with miles, a scene that was a result of her meddling, and a fallout between the two
It's also such a real line. Something that didn't sound like movie dialogue but something a person in her position would actually say.
@@_zurr Amen to this. It feels a lot like her ripping the mask off and being honest in a twisted kind of way. She's a character who jokes around and says whatever comes to mind, but most of her dialogue with her dad in this movie has been very reserved and held back and serious. When she says that, it's like she's letting him see the wisecracking Spider-Gwen underneath (the one that's actually a mask in itself, too). That whole line is beautifully delivered -- so many layers in the way it's said, with genuine sorrow, genuine _pain_, and a twist of a sarcastically bitter jokey tone like she's almost trying to cover up all the emotions and exactly how she feels about her dad's betrayal with that ice-thin veneer. And it... sort of does work, because he only hears the words, and not the subtext. Which I think I can safely say is entirely not the way she meant that to go. And I know people joke about women saying one thing and meaning another but it's a defence reflex okay. And really it's not just the female side of humanity who does it -- you can hide a lot of pain beneath a casual, joking exterior, because if you say one thing with two meanings people can pick the best one, right? In theory.
In summary, if you've ever been a teenage girl with parents who love you but don't really say it and you don't have a great relationship with them but also love them, this scene hits like a ton of bricks
Damn, I didn't even think of it that way..
Also I noticed a lil detail where the colours of the scene (red,purple and dark blue) are a lot like the lighting in the scene where we are introduced to prowler-miles aka “evil” miles. So the colours can be seen as Gwen feeling guilty for losing another friend and viewing herself as bad in this particular moment
I thought the 3rd point of the scene was that the "Captain" doesn't need to die. Migel is wrong, there IS another way to avoid a Canon Event. A big part of why Miles seems disappointed/rejected Gwen's helping hand in Spiders HQ was that he realizes Gwen being there means she have atleast in part, accepted her father's future-death as a Canon Event(Her dad being her "captain", her Peter being her "Ben"). In fact there are precisely as far as we know it 2 confirmed instances where a Spider's "Captain" isn't a canon event: Peter B Parker, and Gwen Stacey
We did see B. turning away from a Spider-Man holding a dead captain in Miguel's little trauma fun house. So I think it's implied B. lost a captain too.
@@belindaluna2067didn’t Miles also ask him about it?
@@kingtitant5732 He did, Peter stayed silent.
So I don;t remember at all just from Peter B. Parker
which one is that
@@durttheelder4035thats the peter who mentored miles in the first movie and the one carrying around a baby the whole time in the second movie
If nothing else, it was extremely satisfying to see such a hurt character have a moment of almost complete relief from the massive weight she carried on her shoulders. The fate of the Multiverse, her dad's death, her being completely alone, betrayal of her best friend, etc.
Loved how Gwen’s story mirrored her father’s story. George Stacy was a cop who was trying to play by the book when it came to the legality of Spider-Woman. He turned his back on his own daughter because that’s what he was supposed to do.
When Gwen felt abandoned and alone and was taken in by the Spider-Society, she gave all of herself to their cause and was playing by the book. She only wanted to go to other dimensions just to see Miles, similar to Miles only wanting to find out how to to other dimensions just to see Gwen and his friends. She felt alone and just wanted companionship. With the fear of going back home, Gwen dedicated herself to just sticking to the life that was written for her until she has the one moment of weakness where she gives into what she wants, kickstarting the whole plot.
After that we see Gwen’s struggle between what she’s supposed to do and what she feels compelled to do, and by the end she comes out the other side realizing that sometimes you have to throw out the playbook and fight for what we truly want. And this development gets mirrored with George Stacy quitting his job as a cop because he values his daughter much more. Gwen’s story was such a great cautionary tale and parallel for Miles and just a great story overall. Loved how the film bookended with Gwen’s arc.
I love your analysis of this. Thank you!
Damn, that was a nice cook, they both really mirror each other
Beautiful analysis
Amazing analysis. I love it.
woah
One of my favorite pieces in this scene is the penguin.
In Spiderham's universe, there is a Spider-guin; a penguin of Gwen. So "go easy on the penguin" can be read as "go easy on yourself"
That's exactly what schnee explains in the short that he mentions at the beginning of the video.
@@mdalion yeah almost word for word. 🤔
I love that she's already gutted the penguin to hide the police radio so he's like, hasn't it had enough?
One thing I noticed is also how they hug. When Gwen pulls her dad in for a hug she uses her web She hugs him as both her daughter and spider Gwen and he accepts her with web literally stuck to his shirt. It’s so different from earlier when she was sticking him with webs in the fight to get him away versus now using them to pull him close. They could’ve had her just run up and hug him but they didn’t and I think that’s pretty cool.
woww this is such a cool detail!! thanks for sharing bro
It could also mirror at the start where Gwen hugs him normally, whereas now Gwen hugs her dad with her webs and he accepts it, showing that he is ready to accept her as Spider Woman
I love the idea of dual subtext. It's a huge theme of spiderverse that every person from how they see, hear, and navigate the world (as presented through colors, music and animation) is their own perspective and that's represented at every level of the story. This one of the only stories where miscommunication doesn't piss me off because the writers know where miscommunication actually comes from, which is not knowing how the other person hears and what they mean when they speak. That is much netter compared to the classic "I overheard 1/8th of a conversation which coincidentally gave me the exact opposite impression". Probably my favorite example of this is with Hobie who's accent is too thick for Miles to understand, who early on is actually telling him what he needs to hear for the climax. Hobie starts to like Miles when he sees him save the police captain, but can't directly see eye to eye with him during their conversation about making his own watch. Miles sees his situation as one of isolation where he needs other people, but Hobie is thinking in terms of independence and Miles just needs the means for doing what he wants. When we see Hobie REALLY like Miles is when Miles starts speaking in HIS language with the "stop calling me kid" "there we go 😏". Its like Hobie was waiting for it. And once they physically trap Miles in a cage, it's NOW he can apply the advice Hobie gave him about using his palms. To which Hobie cracks a huge smile and uses his own watch to quit the spider society.
It goes to show how important it is to strike a balance with miscommunication (and other things ofc), because as much as I share your dislike of the "overheard 1/8 = misunderstanding" arc, Gwen and her dad's conflict does kind of start out like that, with him just missing dino Peter. But the writers are mature enough to get that that alone cannot be the REAL heart of their conflict, it has to have preceded that and be based in character, AND that misunderstanding can't sustain the conflict. It's a focal point, but they use it only to take us deeper into the characters. Love what youre saying about Hobie as well!
I just now realised both characters are really relatable.
@@schnee1 agreed.
@@schnee1 I feel the same way about striking a balance between the jealousy troupe. Miles was clearly jealous of Hobie and Gwen of Margot, but it never got to the point of love triangle. Its enough for a couple jokes and to establish the parallels of Hobie and Miles, and they get some good jokes out of it, but they never take it so far that it's out of character. Miles' falling out with Gwen had nothing to do with a love triangle, and Hobie ended up having BOTH of their backs. Plus the small interaction with Margot substantiated the go-home-machine thing. It's not just balance, but showing restraint in how far you push those types of troupes is important too
@@schnee1t’s interesting bc this particular misunderstanding parallels Jeff’s misunderstanding about miles killing Aaron in the first movie, but that one is quickly resolved when he sees spiderman fighting kingpin and realizes he’s just a kid (the perceived similarity between miles and spiderman is enough to shift Jeff’s viewpoint entirely, whereas seeing his own daughter behind the mask was not enough for captain Stacy) - I’m curious about the implications for what I’m presuming will be the inevitable true reveal in BTSV and their relationship moving forward
My favorite scene in the whole movie. As someone who has a troubled complex relationship with my parents, I was genuinely crying in the theaters watching this…
A great breakdown, but I feel like you're missing something here.
Gwen's dad being a police captain is a death sentence, an unfixable, unmovable cannon event that if she were to disrupt would kill not just him but everyone. Except that's not true. In this moment, he opts out. In her list of choices between watch her dad die, and save her dad at the cost of everyone's lives, he presented a third option that shows that fate isn't as unmovable as spider society suggested. It reinforces to her that Miles is right, Spider-Man can find a way. SHE can find a way. In this scene, her dad restores her faith in not just their relationship, but in the universes ability to change for the better. This scene represents the end of the nihilism that was instilled in her, she's talked about her feelings and now she's ready to start her own band. This scene is the emotional climax of her character arc, and she's ready to go help others now that she has the clarity to know that they can be saved, just like her and her dad.
You got it !
I was always under the impression that the real reason se was avoiding returning to her own universe was to keep her father alive. The "Captain's Death" canon event would be impossible to fulfill if she wasn't there to experience it, therefore staying away was a way of keeping him safe, while not jeopardizing her universe.
@@DrTimes99 given that the event is that "a police captain close to Spider-Man dies in the line of duty" I didn't take away from it that Spider-Man needed to be present for the event to occur, just that the nature of the relationship was key to the impact of the loss. But again, I'm pretty certain canon events are nonsense and so being a police captain was never the death sentence that was foretold to begin with. If all they had to do to protect eachothers loved ones was trade universes with another spider person I don't see why they wouldn't all just do that then, instead of waiting for things to go bad for pavitr
It’s because of the thoughtful writing in these scenes with Gwen’s father that her character really stole the show. I would love to see you do a video like this with Miles and his family.
I feel a bit that 'joke' was also her rubbing in his face how ridiculous it is that he would ever think she would kill Peter. Mocking that aspect of their conflict in order to kind of mask or reflect back how hurtful the accusation was and is. (I don't think her dad, after seeing her unmasked, actually thinks she did that, it's something he never verbally says, I think he just had so many overwhelming feelings about "my daughter is my vigilante nemesis" that he went into Cop Mode Arrest the Suspect on autopilot).
I read it initially as a little bit of guilt tripping and a casual reminder/signifier of how betrayed she feels that he would even think that she could murder Peter (one that attempts to mask her actual pain with humor, as Schnee said), but after watching this video I realized there’s also probably a level of self-flagellation there because, well, she did almost get Miles killed
@@peonylarkspur645 i actually thought this too, bcuz i mean literally just before she arrives home she basically nearly gets miles being outright killed by miguel and the spider society
@@The_Jazziest_Coffee yeah there's a case to be made that gwen actually concedes that her dad might be right about her in this exchange
@@peonylarkspur645 it's also worth noting she was really losing all faith in herself and what she was fighting for around this time. she lost both her friend miles after her betrayal to him (technically in the whole scheme of things it's a betrayal, but personally she was put in an awful situation), and now she's kicked out of spider society
she probably was thinking that everything that had happened validated her dad's perception of her, so gwen basically went through a very awful experience
What's also interesting about the "I'm just out murdering all my friends" line is that's exactly how Gwen feels. She feels that she betrayed Miles, the only person who could understand her both as a friend and as Spider-Woman, and because she couldn't be honest with Miles, Gwen now has put both of them into a position where someone both of them know is going to die and they can't help each other. She's "murdered" Miles' friendship.
definitely one of the most beautiful and well written scenes
I do have a few differing opinions on what the intentions were behind some of these interactions. When Gwen's dad originally comes in acting unperturbed by the situation, I don't think he's necessarily trying to handle things in an unemotional "dad" way. I think what he's actually doing is trying to come across as non-threatening. He's letting Gwen know through his behavior that she's not being held at gunpoint anymore, he's moved into a less chaotic emotional state in which he's ready to hear what she has to say and not jump to conclusions. Then, when Gwen makes the "out murdering all my friends" remark, I don't think it's meant to be a joke, or to defuse the situation- she's making a biting, sarcastic remark that attacks her dad's assumptions and venting her frustrations at him. But it's not just an angry emotional reaction, the statement also has the purpose of forcing him to drop the façade of normalcy and come to terms with his responsibility for the mess they're in now. She's reminding him that he needs to be more than just ready to listen to her- he needs to be ready to come to terms with and make amends for the ways he's hurt her.
Exactly. Dad wants to fix the relationship, gwen wants first to fix the spiderman problem
Precisely. I love this analysis. Amazing.
This doesn’t sound like a disagreement about any of these details lol. This is just adding a new way to say pretty much the same points he made in the video
That's an excellent point.
she is more responsible in the mess created. Afterall, she killed her best friend. Even accidental, she is criminally liable, plis the other things added while she was on the run. She dug herself into a deep hole and at the end she finally began gidding herself out. Reconciling with George is her first lifeline thrown at her
The color use in this scene was phenomenal. I really hope in the future there’s more animation like this. It was easily one of my favorite parts of the movie.
Also keep it up schnee! I love your analysis videos so much, especially the arcane ones.
This animation even though Sony treated their staff terrible you can see the love and how skilled they are, 1000 people work ok this by the way
no actually i need a separate deep analysis on the color usage because it's also lowkey inspired by jojo's
Everything about Gwen's arc in ATSV was on point, and frankly this was HER movie. And there is something amazing about HER movie being essential to Miles finding his own "happy ending" and resolution. Beyond this tho, I love how if you watch its Gwen that makes the two big "stinger" moments of this film. She's the one who gets the biggest dig into Spider Society and how they're operating. They only see Miles as an outsider, so no matter what he does or says its diluted. She was one of them, so when she says "we were supposed to be the Good Guys", you can tell that that hit far harder than anything that Miles did. Shaking several other Spideys loose from Miguel's fatalistic grief/guilt echo chamber (B, Peni and Margo), while also forcing others to second guess themselves (Jess, and hell even Miguel for a moment). On top of this, this resolution with her dad? I believe it changed Gwen's canon.
She became the person she needed to be to take a leap of faith, and be the mature one in that conversation; returning to George his autonomy and agency, and allowing HIM the chance to choose as well. Both choices, Gwen's growth enabling her to make a choice she likely never would have before, and her Father resonating with that, likely has changed both of their Canons safely. And the genius of this? It mirror's Peter B's resolution in ITSV. His growth from those events resulted in him taking a leap of faith and make the mature choice to try to fix things with MJ, returning to her her agency in their relationship and in turn make a choice to give him one more chance. And, even, by the looks of things, MJ become the provider for her Spidey Family, so that B can strip every responsibility away possible to best juggle his most important two. Being a Father/Husband, and as Spiderman. Changing their canons.
B and Gwen's resolutions, their Leaps of Faith, I think are the Keys to Miles changing his Canon safely. And saving Jefferson. They are going to return the favor to him, and alongside the others and the events on 42 will help build him up into a version of himself that can take that proper leap he needs, to return agency to his father, and both will find that "Mayday" miracle. Which means that while Miguel is probably right that canon is both important, and that it does play an effect on the stability of a universe, it can also be changed safely. By changing the Spidey that canon relates to first. To a person who can make leaps of faith and make choices they otherwise NEVER would have, if left isolated in their own dimensions; or remain locked in Miguel's fatalistic echo chamber. Those Spideys who are "isolated", will never make different choices. Those Spideys that are "locked', will never even attempt to make new leaps.
All of the scenes that took place in Gwen’s world are hands down my favorite. As someone who is incredibly close to their father, the line “Are you really this afraid of me?” Was a line that HIT. I was so glad we got this scene on top of that. Gwen’s story and arc was the highlight in ATSV
I wonder if Gwen's knowledge of the police captain's death as a canon event kept her from patching things up with her dad. If she knew she was going to lose him, maybe she thought it would be better for her to be less invested and reliant on him. It's so dang sad and also adds to her whole arc of feeling lost and not knowing what to do next.
Any thoughts on what her dad quitting as a captain and knowing that a captain dying is a canon event might also add to this scene?
I always added the layer of “oh wait if you’re not captain then you won’t die”
Yeah that's also the reading I took from it, she feels her dad is safe from the canon stuff now
That definitely feels like another huge layer here.
When Gwen first leaves with Miguel and Jess, she's mad at her dad, feeling betrayed, and just wants some space to continue doing what she feels is right, without having to deal with the emotions around her father in that moment. Then, at some point, Miguel shows her the "canon events", and she puts 2 and 2 together to realize that her dad is going to die as part of her story. And she doesn't want that, but she likely feels that it would be easier to deal with if she doesn't go back to him. It's something that she can keep ignoring as long as she stays out of her universe, adding to why she's so upset to be rejected from the spider society and sent home.
Then she gets home and has her heart to heart with her dad, and not only does he accept her, but he does the one thing that keeps himself safe, without knowing it. If he's not a captain, he doesn't have to die for her story. And she can open up again, unharden her heart against the thought of losing her dad permanently, realizing there is hope for a future that includes him. And on top of that realizing there is a way to help Miles, her best friend who knows what she's going through.
This movie is amazing.
@@TheBioRulesAlmost exactly what I was gonna say. This scene rules. This movie rules.
@@TheBioRuleshonestly what I really love about analyzing the ‘canon’ events is this.
None of them…. Actually help Spider-Man grow in the way you think it should.
Like. They said they wouldn’t be if it weren’t for Ben but is that true?
It wasn’t Ben’s death that made Spider-Man Spider-Man but that big quote of his that needs not be said for how iconic it is.
And when I think how would Miles’s dad dying help his character grow…. I can’t think of anything.
He already learned the responsibility of being Spider-Man. He already lost his Uncle Aaron.
And further more, he’s Spider-Man because of the love his parents have for him, something that’s made clear with his talk with his mother when she’s expressing how she’s worried he won’t know how loved he is when he goes away. And in the end, he doesn’t. THAT’S what makes him Spider-Man and this video is another example of what I think the movie is trying to say.
Not only would Gwynn’s dad dying not do anything for her, it would make her life WORSE because of his role as well, her role model, the person she looks up to, the person she NEEDS.
I just love watching these videos man.
But then you also have to consider if he broke the cannon why is her universe not crumbling into pieces… her dads not gonna die
I can't help but think that maybe part of Gwen's relief comes from the idea that if her dad's not the captain anymore, then maybe he doesn't have to die as part of the canon.
Wonderful video again! I like not feeling alone in wanting to dissect every frame of this film (and Arcane). And you have an amazing ability to succinctly put it all together!
And if her dad doesn't die because he quit, Miles' dad might not have to die either.
She’s relief cause she realizes miles was right, Miles literally defied faith that’s why he’s my favorite character, he was destined to be the prowler but because of the people around him, Peter B and his family he took that iconic leap of faith and change his destiny forever, he’s know gonna do it again by saving his parents. Nothing is said in stone like Miguel said, it can be changed not everyone has to be like Peter Parker. Miles will break the canon!
@@GladwinAbel He'll be the driving force to remind the Spider-Society why they wear the mask, why they're heroes, something all of them have forgotten.
Me too.
@@PenguinLord10 I feel the same. I'm kinda hopeful.
The thing I love about this conversation is Captain Stacy's mention of "play by the book". In trying to arrest Gwen, George put aside his emotions and his relationship with his daughter, because it's easier to follow the rules than the heart - rules allow you to remain emotionally repressed, but you can't function like that. The worst thing about all this is that Gwen after this confrontation ended up under the wings of another father who "played by the book", but on a multiversal scale - Miguel. In trying to follow the rules of the Spider-Society, Gwen almost ruined her relationship with Miles, because on the one hand she wanted to belong to this community, and on the other hand she couldn't get rid of her feelings for Miles. She wanted to have her cake and eat her cake, and she failed because she didn't buy two cakes (I love how this metaphor works within the arcs of at least several different characters in this movie). And at the end of the movie Gwen goes to save her loved one from whom she has taken much of this non-conformist attitude.
Man, when I saw this scene I burst into tears. Not only is the voice acting PHENOMENAL, but the very writing and story itself was so close to what myself and other teens go through when trying to communicate with their parents. Spiderverse encapsulates what it's like to be a teenager in such a heartfelt way, and I think that's what makes a lot of people relate to it, superheroes and all.
The paint behind them goes from something from a heart that's full, to what it feels like to bleed from heart break
I'd say there was a decent chance he was going to shoot here UNARMED in revenge until she unmasks in the opener. That scene was brutal to watch on several levels.
I adore how the colors of the scene abruptly change to harsh reds and blacks the second the gun is fired, so freaking cool
Separate from the storyline of Gwen, this is an amazing analysis of relationships period. Very well thought out and well written
I think for me the way that scene contributes to gwen's main arc in the plot is to restore that confidence we had in her and teach us a valuable lesson. Before this scene, we see gwen do things we never expected her to do. It is revealed that she was helping Miguel-along with all of the other spider people- to put miles to sleep and refrain him from saving his dad. This of course, arouses a negative reaction from Miles. He feels betrayed and like shit. When he was alone and his family was against him, gwen came in and made him remember that she's his only friend. So, how do you think he would feel when he knows that their meeting was for the sole purpose of doing her job? He felt like she didn't matter to him. Also when she tries to save him, he cuts the spider web and looks at her deceptively as if to say "I don't need saving from a person like you. A person who betrays me." And we, as the viewer, agree with him and feel him. So normaly, we kind of hate gwen in that moment too. So it's only when that scene happens that we understand that gwen isn't all that bad. Gwen, as a teenager, is lost like us too.when she say:"I don't know what the right thing is anymore, I don't know what I'm supposed to do, but I KNOW that I don't want to lose a friend anymore."She WANTS to fix her relationships with the people she LOVES but doesn't know where to start, As it is shown with her father at that that moment. She is indecisive and has to make snap decisions and the outcome isn't always positive. I think she joined Miguel in his plan to stop Miles thinking that it's the right thing to do but as the plan unfolds she doesn't know if it's the right thing to do anymore. We shouldn't always expect the good people to ALWAYS make the right decision, because making a bad one shouldn't remove their "good"title. It's the intentions behind that decision that matter the most. Gwen only wanted the own good of her friend. And this is a lesson we should apply in our lives too, we should understand people and why they had to make certain decisions and also good people are not perfect. To save the day, they stumble upon bad decisions that can be FIXED.
Agreed. I had a similar analysis.
And people still don’t like her
@@oliv7851 The world is black/white, good/bad type people. Don't need 'em
I feel like the “Just been out murdering all my friends.” Line is more than a joke. It’s a lie that Spiderqwen seems to believe here self. She’s lost connection to all of her friends, killing her relationship with them.
One more thing that I loved was during the earlier part of the movie when Gwen was coming back home from quitting her band, the reflection she sees in the window was as Spider-Gwen eventho she wasn’t wearing her costume, and leading up to this scene she sees herself as Gwen in window reflection eventho she was wearing her costume with her mask on. I see it as she was still in hiding in the earlier scene living the double life, and now, she’s going in as herself to confront her dad. The subtleties are just perfection ❤
I interpreted this scene and the smile to be something a little different. I thought that Gwen’s isolation came more from the central theme of the story. Miguel believes cannon events, bad things, tragedies, evil, must be allowed in order to perpetuate the good that is Spider-Man and the universes where they live. Miles rejects the idea that destiny is deterministic and takes the stand that he will never knowingly allow tragedy. He will always try to save everyone. Gwen, along with seemingly all the other spider people, are convinced of Miguel’s viewpoint. Which means that Gwen fully believes that her dad will likely die and that she MUST ALLOW IT to happen. Her isolation comes from being scared to connect with her dad because the more she connects the more it’ll hurt when he dies. This happens all the time with the families of terminally ill people. Their family and friends sometimes distance themselves in order to somehow pre-digest the pain of their impending loss. But then Captain Stacey quits without Gwen telling him to or her intentionally influencing the web of destiny away from a cannon event. In this moment she switches sides. She goes from having her dad’s death, and her complicity in it, looming over their relationship to hope. Hope that maybe Miles is right and there are anomalies, maybe their stories can diverge from the cannon without devastating consequences. Maybe repairing her relationship with her dad is worth it because he’s going to survive.
Also by switching sides she opens herself to her relationship with miles. She was also isolated from miles by believing Miguel’s view that anomaly = bad, miles = anomaly, and Spider-Man + Gwen = dead Gwen. But in this moment she not only opens herself up to her dad she opens herself up to miles.
That smile has so many layers of relief in it. So much of the trauma and distress and burden that characterized Gwen in this movie gets peeled back in that tiny moment and the artists and actors show it all so beautifully.
I interpreted it like you and I think that's the right way to understand the scene and Gwen's arc.
Watching an 18 minute video analyzing a 3 minute scene is the kind of cooking i come to this channel for (i really liked the way you analyzed it, it reminded to that chapter from McKee's Story where he breaks down the scene from Casablanca on a similar way; it's great seeing it on a modern example)
One of the things I was really over the moon about this scene said for the whole overarching storyline is that her dad, the captain, is no longer the captain, and that means Gwen doesn't get the cannon event of a police captain close to the spider-person dying can't happen for Gwen now, and if that critical cannon event can be changed, I like to think Gwen realizes that means that other events can change as well and that Miles was right to push back against Miguel's ideology.
A thing I like about this scene is that Gwen and her dad have this conflicting colour scheme, with Gwen being cold blues and her dad a warm, to me almost an inviting red. I think it really pushes their conflict and so when they make up, they make purple, and in the case of the fight scene there conflicting colors fade to white. A resolution shown not just threw good writing and small moments but also with colours.
I’m surprised you didn’t mention the visual tone of the scene; that beautifully supports the emotional story being told in the scene itself. Starting with harsh contrasts, sharp edges, deeply saturated color. Then flawlessly (leading, I’d argue, the dialogue arch you point out) transitioning to soft edges, the ambiguous shapes of the background. Then, as they begin to truly connect, the scene lightens, the contrast dissolves and ultimately near complete white. It was breathtaking!
This video really made me notice the similarities with the scene of Miles and his mother. It plays out similar but also so completely different. Miles mother is talking about their relationship and giving advice for miles .... but the advice she gives him is exactly what Spiderman needed to hear.
I really liked how this scene in particular mirrored Miles’ own scene with his own father, in that in both instances they (Gwen and Miles) are receiving the exact thing they need most from the people they’ve depended on their entire lives, and who’ve become unable to provide what they’ve needed until that exact moment. It’s like finding the perfect missing puzzle piece to the answer of “How to be Spider-man, MY Spider-man”
What I also liked is that Miles loses another puzzle piece as he loses the community he fought so hard for in the Spiderverse, and as he reaches out to his Mother to find it this time, confessing to what he learned and what he needs from her and who he is, he Can’t get that from her, because she Can’t give it to him, she’s not His Rio Morales. It’s such a fascinating way to do things I love it.
Spider-People are like onions, they have layers
Spiderwoman of Earth-65 is a very skilled and very capable spider-person, with all the natural bright and chatty qualities that any other spider person has. But underneath that mask, she is still Gwen Stacy. A teenager living her day to day life with her dad. A teenager with just as many flaws as we do. A teenager that deserves love from her parents.
Seeing her kicking ass as Spiderwoman will always be amazing, but her more emotional scenes with her dad and with Miles emphasizes the undisputable fact that she is still a kid under all that confidence and bravery she puts on as her superheroine alter ego.
Regarding the colours, and the red/ blue, pink/blue and white. When light shines through a crystal or prism it breaks down the same way: cool colors on one side, warm on the other. And white is in the middle. As Gwen and her dad start to understand each other, the colours mirror the effect of two sides coming together. I can't watch (or even think about) this scene without becoming a blubbering mess, lol
(It's also worth nothing that these are trans colors!)
I've never had a movie with a more relatable relationship fight scene. This is bar for bar how I've had fights with my dad, with him being more logical thinking and that parenting authority and me (in my opinion) more open and emotionally intelligent, being able to understand where he is coming from only after I take a moment to step back and thinking about it but also me having to fight hard for my emotions to be heard.
I think it was also really clever from a writing perspective to layer in phrases and structures that mirror real difficult conversations kids might try to have with their parents, without making it a direct parallel to a specific situation. I thought there were some very interesting parallels in Gwen’s conversations with her dad and also Miles’ conversations with his parents, to a conversation about coming out as trans (I can’t remember the specific lines, but there was a lot of “they’d never accept me” and “it’s like he’s a completely different person”). I thought it added some cool emotional resonance without taking away from what the scene was trying to convey in the movie itself.
As a daughter in a toxic relationship with her parents, that smile is also a little girl getting her dad back. That is HUGE for an empathic person.
I feel like her smile is also showing relief about his dad's fate, and as a consequence that gave her more confidence that the canon can be broken and that she can save Miles and his family. Loved how Gwen’s story mirrored her father’s story. George Stacy was a cop who was trying to play by the book when it came to the legality of Spider-Woman. He turned his back on his own daughter because that’s what he was supposed to do. When Gwen felt abandoned and alone and was taken in by the Spider-Society, she gave all of herself to their cause and was playing by the book. She only wanted to go to other dimensions just to see Miles, similar to Miles only wanting to find out how to to other dimensions just to see Gwen and his friends. She felt alone and just wanted companionship. With the fear of going back home, Gwen dedicated herself to just sticking to the life that was written for her until she has the one moment of weakness where she gives in to what she wants, kickstarting the whole plot. After that, we see Gwen’s struggle between what she’s supposed to do and what she feels compelled to do, and by the end, she comes out the other side realizing that sometimes you have to throw out the playbook and fight for what you truly want. And this development gets mirrored by George Stacy quitting his job as a cop because he values his daughter much more. Gwen’s story was such a great cautionary tale and parallel for Miles and just a great story overall. Loved how the film bookended with Gwen’s arc. A great breakdown, but I feel like you're missing something here. Gwen's dad being a police captain is a death sentence, an unfixable, unmovable cannon event that if she were to disrupt would kill not just him but everyone. Except that's not true. At this moment, he opts out. In her list of choices between watching her dad die, and saving her dad at the cost of everyone's lives, he presented a third option that shows that fate isn't as unmovable as Spider society suggested. It reinforces to her that Miles is right, Spider-Man can find a way. SHE can find a way. In this scene, her dad restores her faith in not just their relationship, but in the universe's ability to change for the better. This scene represents the end of the nihilism that was instilled in her, she's talked about her feelings and now she's ready to start her own band. This scene is the emotional climax of her character arc, and she's ready to go help others now that she has the clarity to know that they can be saved, just like her and her dad. It’s because of the thoughtful writing in these scenes with Gwen’s father that her character really stole the show. I would love to see you do a video like this with Miles and his family. I think for me the way that scene contributes to Gwen's main arc in the plot is to restore that confidence we had in her and teach us a valuable lesson. Before this scene, we see Gwen do things we never expected her to do. It is revealed that she was helping Miguel-along with all of the other spider people- to put Miles to sleep and refrain him from saving his dad. This, of course, arouses a negative reaction from Miles. He feels betrayed and like shit. When he was alone and his family was against him, Gwen came in and made him remember that she was his only friend. So, how do you think he would feel when he knows that their meeting was for the sole purpose of doing her job? He felt like she didn't matter to him. Also when she tries to save him, he cuts the spider web and looks at her deceptively as if to say "I don't need saving from a person like you. A person who betrays me." And we, as the viewer, agree with him and feel him. So normally, we kind of hate Gwen in that moment too. So it's only when that scene happens that we understand that Gwen isn't all that bad. Gwen, as a teenager, is lost like us too. When she says: "I don't know what the right thing is anymore, I don't know what I'm supposed to do, but I KNOW that I don't want to lose a friend anymore."She WANTS to fix her relationships with the people she LOVES but doesn't know where to start, As is shown with her father at that moment. She is indecisive and has to make snap decisions and the outcome isn't always positive. I think she joined Miguel in his plan to stop Miles thinking that it's the right thing to do but as the plan unfolds she doesn't know if it's the right thing to do anymore. We shouldn't always expect good people to ALWAYS make the right decision, because making a bad one shouldn't remove their "good" title. It's the intentions behind that decision that matters the most. Gwen only wanted the own good of her friend. And this is a lesson we should apply in our lives too, we should understand people and why they had to make certain decisions, and also good people are not perfect. To save the day, they stumble upon bad decisions that can be FIXED. If nothing else, it was extremely satisfying to see such a hurt character have a moment of almost complete relief from the massive weight she carried on her shoulders. The fate of the Multiverse, her dad's death, her being completely alone, betrayal of her best friend, etc."I was just out murdering all my friends" This Is such a powerful line beyond the thinly veiled joke. I believe the line to be partially true from Gwen's perspective. At this point, she had just come back from the chase with Miles, a scene that was a result of her meddling, and a fallout between the two My favorite scene in the whole movie. As someone who has a troubled complex relationship with my parents, I was genuinely crying in the theaters watching this… One thing I noticed is also how they hug. When Gwen pulls her dad in for a hug she uses her web She hugs him as both her daughter and spider Gwen and he accepts her with web literally stuck to his shirt. It’s so different from earlier when she was sticking him with webs in the fight to get him away versus now using them to pull him close. They could’ve had her just run up and hug him but they didn’t and I think that’s pretty cool.
This whole scene is something special. Gwen- she's still stuck in that mindset of what's the point of opening up if the end result is nothing but heartbreak? Despite this, it's not just her running away from her problems but from any opportunity to allow herself to be understood.
She felt as if her bandmates, father, and world couldn't understand her feelings. Then in return, she denies any happiness for herself, believing it's not worth it cause it won't last. She's suffocating from so much. Seeing where she is now, it's great to see that she's following her heart. She can stop rejecting herself.
also in regards to Gwen following her dads way. she couldn’t decide what was more important her relationship with miles or her duty. but through the beginning of the movie we see she decided her duty just like her father did. And we see Miles look betrayed on the train scene, just like gwen did when her father was going to arrest her. So seeing that her dad quit it resolved that inner conflict.
The use of color in Gwen's world is so important and thoughtful. There are times when you can tell she is sad and depressed because Gwen would be painted blue while the environment was vibrant, and even the scene where the dad walks in how the colors are darker around Gwen as in she was trying to block him out and the colors around the dad were Red and Blue symbolizing the cop in him because that was what Gwen thought from the last time they talked before she left with Miguel. Her world is literally painted emotions and you could really see that with the colors they picked. That's why I think the creators and artists behind this movie are geniuses and this film is a masterpiece.
I also want to point at that when Gwen and her dad finally connected and she found out he quit being a cop that it also changed the canon of her world because since her dad was the police captain means he would have died at some point, but since he quit means that he probably wouldn't die anymore changing the canon which made Gwen happy and have hope in what Miles believed in.
The colors were really what got me you could really feel the emotions.
Yeah, like everyone else said, Gwen is caught between acting like a "good cop" (doing what the spider society wants in order to ostensibly protect the multiverse) and her own judgment and instincts. When her father quits, it clears up the conflict because she realizes there isn't a conflict. There's a way to protect the multiverse that doesn't go against her values and instincts. That's why she tells Miles' parents that he taught her that anything's possible.
That said you highlighted a lot of beautiful subtleties in this scene I didn't consider and all the kudos for that.
Another thing to add to all this is that this scene isn’t just the crescendo of her emotional arc or her arc in Mile’s story, but it’s also the true climax of her story. A story we only see the beginning and end of. A story of prejudice, bigotry, fear, and isolation, but also acceptance, connection, love, and family bonds. This final scene is her coming full circle with this, and all the emotions that this has intertwined.
Ok so a quick rundown of this story just so it’s in writing for people to see. Gwen gets functionally disowned and thrown out by her father after revealing her secret. She becomes homeless, and is taken in by Miguel and the spider society. The society instills the fear of cannon events in her which leads her down a path of isolationism and sorrow even if that wasn’t the intention. In this time though she meets Hobie, and is given unconditional kindness in his acts of aid (letting her crash in his dimension, and giving her his old shoes since hers would have been destroyed quickly for no reason other than to help a friend out). This is the seed that starts to grow in Gwen’s heart. She reconnects with Miles, a faux pas for her in this community, due to this growing seed in her. Sadly this leads to her being kicked out of the community even though she sided with them against miles (if only for a minute). Now with nowhere to go she tries to collect what little scraps of joy she can, and live the rest of her life in isolated misery. This is where the scene talked about starts, and Gwen is given unconditional love by her father who finally accepts her for who she is.
Just like the other narrative lines this scene is the climax of her personal story. It is her father realizing how he fucked up in his preconceived views and prejudices about Spider-Man, and how he never saw the human in that monster he falsely built up in his mind until that monster was his child. It’s her realizing, through the help of Hobie and Miles, and despite the mentality of the society, that yes you can be open and accepting, and it not end in tragedy. That she can be happy. All of this leading up to her final climax of emotions with the mod ring that is her universal being painted in her emotions of blue, white, and pink.
I honestly love just how deep deep this movie can be, and how many layers every narrative set piece, character, and choice have. It is really nice to see Gwen have a full character arc that lets her have her own highs and lows all steeped in multiple meanings, and her eventual come out a better and happier person because of it all.
Loved everything you said!! Just one thing though, i don't see this as the crescendo of her arc in Miles's story. It's like they said - in the important ways, they're the same.
Miles and Gwen both in their own way follow the same path, both longing for connnection and acceptance and family and they hope to find it in the Spider-Society only to realise it's nothing like they expected (Miles's i can do both, and Gwen's we're supposed to be the good guys). Ultimately through Miles escaping the Spider-Society and Gwen fixing things with her dad they both take charge of their own desires- decisions and ultimately their own destinies
Loved this character analysis. Gwen's scenes with her dad are visually stunning, but they'd be just that without the complexity behind the characters. I think you explained well why these are my favorite scenes in the movie. The visuals are great throughout the film, but the raw emotions being put on display by the writers and voice actors makes these scenes stand out in a movie that already stands out.
Just love when 2 characters with their own unique and flawed models of their world clash like this.
I feel like a big part of this scene the complexity of that small smile also has a lot of play in relation to Gwen's place in the Spider-Verse. She finds an infinite Spider-Verse filled with other Spider-men/Spider-women and yet she is the only Gwen Stacy. In fact, all of the other Gwen Stacy's in these stories are tragic romantic interests. She is also carrying this weight that as a Spider-man, supposedly a loved one has to die and usually Captain Stacy dies.... her father.
I also just realized that it's implied that Spider-man is usually at the scene of the death and could've prevented it. Other than her staying away for months due to the complicated relationship, she also likely wants to stay away from her world because she wants to keep her father from dying. That if she goes back, she'll be putting her father in danger.
Gwen believes Miguel, she has little reason not to believe that he is right about the canon events thing. I personally don't, I think he's full of shit because there are so many inconsistencies. But when her father resigns, it relieves the burden she's been carrying for months: "Captain Stacy will die and I will cause it." I also feel like it could allow Gwen to question the validity of the "canon" story. That things can go their own way, he doesn't have to be captain. That there is no set in stone events that must happen in order for Spider-Man to be Spider-Man. You control your own destiny and your own story, just like her dad made that decision for himself and for her right there. "In every other universe Gwen Stacy falls for Spider-man"... but to be more specific. In every other universe Gwen Stacy falls for Peter Parker. She can do whatever she needs and wants to do.
facts mate
I think the final layer to this is that her dad saying he quit means he also will not be killed as a canon event, obviously a huge weight from her shoulders. Plus it frees her from Miguel's vision of the spiderverse and leads perfectly into her own decision to quit and make things right with Miles.
This is a different take to the "standard" or "surface" interpretation, but there's a really powerful writing of Gwen's "otherness" and its relationship between her and her father that mirrors the struggle queer people face with their own families. When she first reveals herself as "other" to her dad, he disowns her as his daughter and refuses to see her as anything else than "other" and asks her "how long have you been *lying* to me" about what you are? That you are not what I thought you are? And in this scene the layers add to the dimension of "accepting your child as someone different and someone other." This, alongside the color Symbolism of the scene and the flags that are in her room and on her dad's jacket have helped a lot of queer people, specifically trans people, relate very strongly to Gwen's character. And i think that's really nice
YEAH this like. this is as textual as symbolism can get to me and it makes me sad that it wasn’t mentioned here in the video, esp as it to me is a huge part of the subtextual analysis of this scene. stuff like this is present throughout the entire movie
@@catboymiles7224 I think he was trying to be a little more metacontextual with his analysis but yeah I also wish he'd had the guts to talk about it in an actual video, but trans existence has become a bit of a hot button topic these days
yes yes yes to this!
@@MathasiaJ this is very true indeed! i love it when existing means people in power project their cognitive dissonances onto you and thus possibly threaten your rights to exist /s
Gwen and George must have felt unbearably lonely in upholding their responsibilities while dealing with their personal relationships. In the end, they truly found each other in the most beautiful and heartfelt way.
I’m about to cry over here with how much you just taught me. This just made an emotionally resonant scene even more touching. Thank you, man.
I absolutely love your analysis videos because they're not just trying to focus on writing fundamentals/rules etc., but also dig into the psychological and philosophical context
The background colours bleeding into one another as the scene progresses were fantastic, the whole scene was fantastic, I loved every minute of it.
Dude this isn’t even writing you’re teaching us, it’s valuable life lessons holy shit
As well as that, the visuals are so well done, where you see how the pastel colours of the apartment shift constantly with the conversation. First of all, the room is well defined when she arrives, and everything is coloured in a regular way. Though, after she takes of her mask, the pastels begin to drop and blend into each other, both on her father’s face, representing his alienation from the man she used to know, as well as on the walls, forming reds and blues. Now, red and blue are both colours used very particularly in this film, blue meaning that danger is approaching, an invert of the usual calmness associated with the coldness of the colour blue, and red is used to say “is what we’re doing right?”. (This is all demonstrated in PSM’s Spiderverse video in a segment with his friend, Tre.)
Now, after the conversation moves into the living room, everything becomes much less defined, furniture and paintings on the walls simply fusing into the background. However, Gwen’s dad seems to return to normal, ever so slowly. And, finally, when Gwen has a breakdown, something completely revolves around her identity, the entire scene changes drastically. Mr Stacey returns to normal, defined and clear, but the background does the opposite, moving from a wash of complete random colours, and now to white, black and pink, a representation of Gwen’s acceptance that she is both Gwen Stacey and Spider-Woman.
These characters' depth and complexity is why i call this movie a masterpiece
As someone who is very lucky to have a *really* good relationship with their father, it was such a gut punch to watch this scene in theaters. Because we've all had a similar moment with our parents, wether or not the outcome of that moment was good.
And I loved every second of it.
This was a really good analysis on the scene schnee, it really highlights how important dialogue in a scene is.
Gwen’s arc was so satisfying, can’t wait to see her conclusion in BTSV.
Damn, that gwen's smile analysis was so great!
This scene broke something in me, it now lives rent free in my head. To me this is the pinnacle of cinema, I have never seen anything like this.
I also really liked the use of color in gwen's whole universe. We can see so much of everyone's internal thoughts and feelings just based on the changing color of the lights around them, and that really came through in adding complexity to this scene.
I originally read this scene and smile and relief in Gwen as relief that her cannon was broken, because her father was no longer chief. There are three layers from my perspective, she is happy first because of the repaired relationship and that she is no longer lost, second about her father not going to die, and third because this moment was proof Miles was right that the cannon could be broken.
I am so burnt out by the mcu and superhero movies in general but this film was the best I've seen in forever. Not because it was a superhero movie....but because of the humanity and the story. The characters and their stories were amplified by amazing animation and writing. It was amazing!
Great breakdown to the most impactful scene in the movie.
The conversation between Gwen and her father is amazing. It hits u in so many layers. From the lines of “I can’t help the people I love the most and they can only know half for who I am.”
The two people she is talking about is miles and her father
She can’t help her dad because he was going to die because it was canon event with also not letting him know that she was spider women
She can’t help miles because of what Miguel and Jess told her about him being the original anomaly and being forbidden to see him. With her not being fully honest or entirely herself. When she was with him. But the one thing she said that really hit me to the core is “ I can’t lose…one more friend.” She can’t bare to say those words and was in tears with hair turning blue. That’s the only thing she knows throughout the whole movie she can’t lose miles because of the deep connection and emotional understanding they both share.
When her father quit being captain , u can see the relief and hug she gave to her father which is emotional because we haven’t seen her be happy, yet entirely herself throughout the movie. With her on verge on tears with a smile because she believes now that u can do both.
Overall, the reconciling of Gwen and her father’s relationship is a symbolism of hope for her in the next movie that she can have both which is her father and miles safe. With also taking a leap of faith on her and miles relationship because miles taught her that it is all possible.
When it comes to emotional intelligence, I think Hobie might be a match for Gwen. I think he would have picked up on Gwen's affection for Miles before she even mentioned him. I've no doubt that Hobie has been looking after all the lost and broken spiders in the Spiderverse. That's why he's adopted Gwen. I don't think there's anything romantic between them, just a lot of respect.
Finally someone with good point who understand the movie. So many ppl hate Gwen and it makes me upset. She is amazing and what she did is really understandable.😭
Why do they hate gwen
i love how you point out about how Gwen's arc is resolved not by fighting, but by a heart-to-heart conversation, because it gets into what i feel is the best part of the Spider-person archetype: despite their larger than life abilities, they face the same problems the average person does. while other superheros do have personal problems, they're not as core to the character as it is for Spider-man and their varients, and to have those relatively normal problems be what causes the resolution to the larger external threats works so well.
Need more of these Gwen essays
The detail and nuance with which you breakdown important charachter arcs, almost makes me tear up. Love all your videos, keep up the great work bud!
This whole scene was my favourite from both movies primarily because it spoke to me as a trans person much like how her character was a trans allegory as to the “mask” she has to put on and that it’s who she is. All of the dialogue was completely appropriate for a conversation with a parent about being trans and dealing with it. I love this movie so much and this scene made me cry for so many different reasons.
and ALL OF THIS complexity without even mentioning another layer of changing COLORS
just brilliant
What I loved about all the scenes in Spider-woman's universe is the use of color to denote emotions. Someone equated it to a "mood ring" where Gwen is warm tones when she feels content, alert, or angry, and cool tones when she's feeling sad or lonely. When they have scenes of heightened emotion, you can see the color running down the walls behind them, like watercolor paintings, showing how paper thin that veneer is to hide their true emotions underneath. In this last scene they have as father and daughter, the color palette is even bolder - dark blues and purples contrasted against vibrant red, instead of the cyan/magenta tones they used in the first act of the film. The background is even further abstracted so you don't see the objects in the room, just a sense of massing and shape without definition. The only clearly defined objects in the space are Gwen and her father standing in the doorway. It brilliantly uses the color contrast to portray lighting effects, but it adds to the dramatic tension and emotion of the scene, too.
The other major component to the scene is the gradual introduction of white. White is composed of all the visible colors along the light spectrum, which is displayed to be slowly collecting the darker dramatic colors of the background before they all dissolve into white. I took it to mean they were working through their feelings which lead them to the resolution of their argument, and the background absorbs all that anger, sadness, pain, confusion, and loss. Once Gwen follows him through her bedroom door and into the living room, the background falls away, and while the room starts out dark and muddy, the shapes around them become abstract, completely untethered from the expected furniture and household decor that you'd see in a regular apartment setting. As they resolve their differences and come to a new understanding of one another, the room almost completely disappears as they embrace. They finally understand one another, and all that heaviness and darkness falls away around them. Really impactful piece of cinema.
This scene tears me up every time. One of the best written scenes I've experienced in a long time and having it explained this way really makes me love this scene so much more
I did feel the weight of this scene when I watched it in the cinema, but watching it this time, it made me realize how much I relate to Gwen in this scene when thinking about the relationship with my mum. We've had a lot of ups and downs, she always tries to protect and watch out for me and I take those instances of care as times of control. I had a similar, highly emotionally charged talk with my mum not so long ago. It was one of the hardest things I ever had to do, but after a good hour or two of talking about the problems we have, it did get better. Currently, while our relationship isn't perfect by any means, I finally feel comfortable with my own mother.
I also would like to point out that she walks in “knowing” her dad is going to die because of canon events. Captain Stacy quitting not only does everything mentioned in the video, it proved that the relationship can be fixed, that he doesn’t necessarily have to die, and her conflict on whether she should help Miles because of the problem with canon events. It’s a weight off of her shoulders in many ways, it gives her support where she had none, it gave her hope when she had none, and it gave her a purpose when she was lost.
The first time I watched this movie was two nights ago. I immediately noticed the bg color choices. And I was in tears. I could rant about this movie forever, abt everything I loved (esp how I related to the teens and the parents relationships), but god the art. The effects, the animation. Everything. The color parallels had me in tears cuz it felt like I understood them.
I have watched this scene over 20 times, but each time when Gwen webs her dad to hug him, I get all choked up. 😥😥
so i only clicked on this video because i needed good painting references from this scene, but dam that was a really cool analysis. I used to watch a bunch of university writing lectures and this is just as good as those if not better cos its so specific. Thanks!
I think this is amazing analysis. You break down so many key details to what makes the scene work, or at least enough to make it easier to engage with the idea of WRITING a scene like this, and trying to take a deeper look. Happy you made this!
As a side note the line “just killing my friends” does actually have some truth to it with the whole witch hunt against miles, which Gwen was a decent amount a part of
I wanna add, the "oh yknow, killing my friends..." line isn't entirely untrue from how she's feeling. She blames herself from what happened to miles and dragging him into things. She's been booted out of spider society, "killing" her relationship with everyone, and its only when her dad gives her hobies watch does she realize she's still got friends
Very off topic but when I was in the theater (I invited my dad to come with) my dad kept looking over at me with a look of “HM DANG THIS LOOKS VERY Familiar.” While we were watching this
This is so real. I went to an showing with my dad, and I was in costume as Gwen. We both lost it at this scene :(
@@sabrina0013 Aw damn :( I was trying not to shed tears at this part (Gwen and her dad’s relationship and yk her being spider woman is kinda similar to me and my dad and about how I am queer) but I love this scene and also cool you got to go dressed as Gwen :D
One of my favorite things about this movie was just how real the parental interactions and relationships felt. Not only Gwen and her father, but also Miles and his parents. When you break it down like this, it makes all the more sense why it feels like such a real interaction between a father and his teenage daughter. There's real thought put behind every movement and line included. The subtext is masterfully laced in and really makes this scene incredible.
I cry every damn time in the scenes with Gwen and her dad
Idk why but the fact that you were giving such a thoughtful analysis of the scene and you still took the time to say Gwen was so precious because of her smile fills me with delight
It's a beautiful scene, so underrated actually. Her character arc was my favourite part of the movie.
Edit: i think another captain will probably die, it's just that this wasn't her dad so it makes a huge difference
Absolutely my favorite scene in the movie bar none! Every shot is goddamn poster worthy, especially the parts where Gwen and her dad are starting to connect, with the white background and the moving shapes, drove me to tears.
For me it was the most powerful scene in the whole movie. I remember sitting in the cinema being totally drawn to the scene. I was so into this conversation and I was speechless after that.
The whole scene (dialogue, color scheming, the phenomenal voice acting and also the movement of the characters with all the small facial expressions - or how Gwen is pacing throughout her monologue) is a masterpiece. Seeing this and witnessing their repaired relationship made me so happy.
Hailee Steinfeld nailed it here, also while talking to Miles during the Clocktower scene. She breaks down emotionally, which makes it so real. I close my eyes and see a completely understandable and relatable personal arc here.
And yep, Gwen is the most complex person in this movie. I liked her and all the arcs, and I really hope to see her friendship (and let's be honest) her love with Miles restored. How she broke down by rejecting Miles (after seeing him approaching, which I think made her realize they are both hardly in love) that she can't be with him due to the 'Gwen dilemma'...she really wants to be with him and seeing how she is realizing that she broke her canon by fixing her relationship with her dad, makes me believe that she is now fully aware of that everything is possible for her now.
I absolutely loved this scene. I’ve been in that sort of same uneasy feeling with my parents before, growing up them emotionally abusing me, it was such a familiar and scary feeling watching this scene. But seeing it end with a hug and them knowing they love each other, makes me a little jealous and happy. Such a wholesome and kind moment I’ve personally never felt but love to see.
I have no idea how you can speak for so long, with minimal breaks, and about such deep topics in such an analytical and well contextualized way. I’m not a writer, nor have I ever been particularly good at writing or explaining emotional or thematic nuances but this video is so amazing in that regard that it makes me want to improve. Props for the great analysis 👏
I think Gwen's smile at the end of the discussion was ALSO a realization that she just changed her canon without her dimension falling apart. You see it further when her dad hands her Hobie's gift. There's sudden understanding in her face. If she can change her canon, then why can't Miles change his and everyone else's with her help? And realizing that Hobie already understood it.
Something to add to the role-model point. Her dad BROKE THE RULES. The spider rules. All the rules said that her and her relationships are doomed. But her dad through acting as a loving authority figure [spoilers]. And that means she can save Miles, she can save herself. She doesn't have to choose between being good and the best outcome, assemble the crew.
The line about murdering her friends is plain sarcasm referring to how he reacted to her revealing herself and he still decided to read her Miranda. It's a payback for his poor judgement in previous situation. Yeah, good writing-directing.