@@budnrobots2968 For others Challenges can interprets as punishment's. That's the way I look at it. Personally I have gone thought very difficult times but never felt being punished because never felt alone @ life's path.
@@budnrobots2968 For others Challenges can interprets as punishment's. That's the way I look at it. Personally I have gone thought very difficult times but never felt being punished because never felt alone @ life's path.
God is not within the domain of good and evil. God defines what is good and what is evil. Whatever is with God is considered good, whatever is away from God is evil.
pretty much, if God is real i would assume it would have the personality of "i destroyed planets full of life because i can, i'm God so it's correct to do because i said so", ofc maybe it's the opposite, just because we humans lose all logic when given total power maybe a GOD wouldn't fall into such weak state of mind.
That’s right up until the end. The end is the opposite of what jordan is saying here. According to JBP god is all encompassing but god is not just good. ‘not pleasure, certainly not the absence of pain.’ You’re lying to our kids and shunning them away by trying to convince them that the orchestrator of the universe will only please them.
That may be true, but its not true enough. God is so good that we can discover this and believe it deeply as fact because God is able to reveal himself as good and seems to want to do so. And even more so it seems psychologically important to be able to do this and discovering this is of immense psychological value.
Moreover, the lie that was sold in the garden to Adam and Eve and has perpetuated through time is that man can define good and evil apart from God, in essence becoming gods themselves.
But according to this video, God is more than good, he is literally all encompassing and ‘good’ is something we can experience by listening to GOD, but god is NOT concerned with what we want to be good. He has his own rules.
Ironically, even from an atheistic point of view, I agree with this. The older I get the more I realize that humanity is NOT inherently good. Goodness is learned. And, much more often than not, goodness is passed down through generations from some kind of familial/ancestral ties to a religion which hyper-focuses on living a moral, purposeful, and spiritually enlightened life. As a species, we were so uncertain about whether or not humanity was good or evil if left to our own devices for so very long. But, in my opinion, the verdict’s in. We’ve deliberated enough. Without a higher power, or an extremely compelling set of spiritual, and hierarchical/authoritarian/religious laws/codes of conduct, then humans will pursue and act on evil curiosities.
@@kohtalainenalias What does the Ultimate Being have to do with a lower principality? I mean I tend to know but I am not sure what this question is about
Still mind is absolute bliss. Nothing weighing on you heavy when you know so much anxiety and fear. I would say, it's a state of nirvana which is blissful. Religion and preaching is more palatable when you don't take the story so head on, but view as a 3rd party and what's the context of the situation. Then when you interpret it to modern similar behaviors/experiences, it's crazy it's the exact same today. JP you do a great job at giving context to these conscripts. So then it makes it more relatable and creates "light bulb" moments.
I still can’t get over brining/creating a sentient life without consent (whether by a god or by our parents). Thats my sticking point. No matter what the “truth” is concerning life after death or the reason a supernatural deity created us, nobody giving consent to be thrown into existence trumps EVERYTHING to me. No matter how “good” your god is, by thrusting us into a finite existence with the risk of infinite suffering (going to Hell) to me, makes everything afterward moot.
_"I still can’t get over brining/creating a sentient life without consent... No matter how “good” your god is, by thrusting us into a finite existence with the risk of infinite suffering (going to Hell) to me, makes everything afterward moot."_ But there's a contradiction there. Nobody is "thrust" into existence. Prior to existence, there is nothing there to "thrust" into existence. There is no preexistent form which would be better off having never been. There is no consent to be had, there is no one to ask for consent, because nothing exists prior to existing.
@@mjfraser04 Hard disagree. Either you've misunderstood me, or I've misunderstood you. It is right and correct and morally good to create life in this world. It is right and correct and morally good that life which chooses to do evil and remains unrepentant of that evil should suffer for all time.
Do not believe in anything simply because you have heard it. Do not believe in anything simply because it is spoken and rumored by many. Do not believe in anything simply because it is found written in your religious books. Do not believe in anything merely on the authority of your teachers and elders. Do not believe in traditions because they have been handed down for many generations. But after observation, and analysis, when you find that anything agrees with reason, rationality, and is conducive to the good and benefit of one and all, then accept it and live up to it. - Buddha
taking the transcendent being off the table, is exactly what defines an atheist - like an Eskimo claiming there can be no elephants, or an African proclaiming there can be no ocean - they simply haven't realized what they think it is, isn't what it was intended to be seen as.
The desire for meaning and purpose is a human universal regardless of one's faith. Seeking maximal hedonic pleasure is not a sustainable long-term goal. Think about the celebrities with more money than they know what to do with who end up with alcohol or drug addictions and lives that spiral out of control. There's a reason self-made billionaires like Bezos, Musk, or Gates aren't just spending their waking hours lounging on the beach while sipping Mai Tais when they have the financial means to do so.
Not looking good seeing all these comments completely ignoring the points jordan is making. God is not just good, god is everything. ‘Good’ is a construct he gave us.
no good is not a construct he gave us. It is God. God is LITERALLY good. he IS, the very paradigm of goodness. The actual, ontologically identical substance of good itself.
@@Raiddd__ Have fun eating cake and busying yourself with the reproduction of the species, then. The universe has its challenges and if you haven’t found any lucky you.
Sure would be interesting to see you and Russell Brand get together and talk about how you both became so openly religious after being attacked by the establishment. Could this happen?
When I heard the suffering versus happiness axis isn’t the correct evaluation, I was thinking the same thing. Without gratitude for blessings received, does this make one susceptible to losing the blessings?
What if the reason there is good and evil is because everything is energy self organizing into patterns as a way of storing energy for later use. If a pattern already exists then the energy needed to find that pattern again is reduced and that energy then can be used to find out form new patterns for later use. Wouldn’t that mean energy that forms the patterns that are evil make it easier not to waste energy on that pattern as well as use energy to find out form patterns that are good?
Holy Spirit is faithful to lead us into all Truth and will convict us when we sin... We have free will whether or not we will repent or not. If we repent, God is gracious and merciful to forgive us. If we choose not to seek God to show us any hidden sin, then it is not forgiven. The ball is in our court.
god simply is. without darkness and evil there is no reason to ascend to the heights of our potential characters, and everything would just be grey. goodness has no value without badness
The more I think of these things the more I see God, heaven, angels, etc. as matters of definition. If your idea of heaven disgusts you, by definition you're having the wrong concept of it. Same with God. If you think God isn't righteous, you have the wrong idea of God.
God is neither good nor evil. Earthly concepts attribute these constructs to that which "created" us. A path to God creates discipline, dignity, and integrity. It creates positive changes within the self. Over-indulgence is a path to ruin and distraction.
Unfortunately for our emotions, ‘perfection’ doesn’t necessitate our happiness. But that’s not good or bad it’s objective reality!!! His strongest soldiers for his hardest battles is what i say
@@budnrobots2968 it's kind of like God would rather you sacrifice personal comfort to help somebody rather than to wallow in your own gluttonous pleasurable whims. Which would ultimately destroy you anyway.
So if existence is not possible without 'suffering' than what is life like, or will be like, in Heaven? And what will 'perfect' life look like when the Scriptures have been fulfilled and Earth 'restored'? If this already is 'perfection' since God can not create imperfection then what will the differences be? And what 'changed' after the fall of Adam and Eve? And why was Jesus' Sacrifice 'necessary'?
Because those holy events and things don’t have SCIENTIFIC or HISTORICAL implications, as REAL as they are. They are real in a different sense than the logical questions you’re proposing.
@@budnrobots2968 I agree, but then the entire conversation is mute! If God does not exist then the Question 'Does he have to be Good' is pointless. I brought up those questions for both the theists and those who perceive the Bible more allegorically, like Dr Peterson seems to do.
“Parents know their children will be hurt by the world”. THIS! Why bring life into a world that you (the parent) KNOW is cruel and will be a struggle for survival for their offspring? Without using the Bible or resorting to faith-based claims, how is this ethical and moral?
God is The Alpha and Omega observing our lives in reverse knowing the beginning from the end. For we are seated in heavenly places at the right hand of the Father who lives outside of Time and Space. For His ways are higher than ours, and so are His thoughts far higher than the dark thought leaders of our day holding a form of religion while denying the transformational Power within.
Thanks for honoring free speech. If a god existed ... it could not "be" good and Judge-mental at the same time. It would have to be one ... or the other. “Since the masses of the people are inconstant, full of unruly desires, passionate, and reckless of consequences, they must be filled with fears to keep them in order. The ancients did well, therefore, to invent gods, and the belief in punishment after death.” Roman historian, Polybius.
There's no permission necessary. The axiom that OTHER PEOPLE MATTER is itself a limitation of the concept of true "freedom". With infinite power over the cosmos, or at least no limiting moral framework, there is no concept of permission.
which God? if every culture has their own god and different values and views about morality, then do they all have permission to inflict their morals on other people as long as they believe they have a God giving them permission?
You can't expect people who deny JESUS as GOD, to understand what it means for GOD to BE GOOD, it's in his nature. Mark 10:18 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God. This is him exalting the FATHER above himself, 3 persons, 1 being. 1 true living GOD, This isn't JESUS saying he isn't GOD, it's him exalting the FATHER above himself as GOD. I wish and pray GOD will open the eyes of these two and ALL that deny the divinity of JESUS!
God is whatever people want him to be, you have Old testament God versus New testament god, Old testament God wasn't attracting many people into the tent so they came up with a warm fuzzy forgiving God and the money started flowing in
Gods must be good. If Gods are not good, we have hell, no matter what we do. The purpose of life is happiness, including meaning and purpose in life. the problem is if gods are good, why are there evils in the world? and goods must endure the evils, but goods always win, as omniscience, omnipotence, omnipresent gods.
World of Karma 😊🥰😆❤️💛❤️🔥 Totally, Totally 💯 1000% Real and True. I can't express or prove it with "facts" like I can TRUTH, that knowing, infinitely knowing calm and ease with the energy or vibes you know and feel is right, along with the first hand witness, testimony, and story I've lived and conquered in a sense..
Of course one can stretch, deform, twist, and pervert concepts of " goodness. " What seems good to a limited human mind may be way out of the league of an infinite mind. The bible has much to say on this topic. Want specifics ???? Ask . . . and ye shall receive.
You can’t propose the idea of bringing life to the world not knowing how much suffering or non suffering there may be as a result. The thought experiment is utterly flawed. To have any concept of life or consciousness requires a basic knowledge of such phenomena.
If we say God is good, we are indirectly diminishing God and subjecting him to our human standards and understanding. If one say God is good to me, I have no problem with that. But if that person says God is good or evil, then that person will have to explain what he means by good or evil and how God fits into his understanding of good and evil. To me. God is not a good God, neither is God and evil God, God is simply God. And we can't subject a being that created the universe and controls it into our own insignificant moral compass
Of course God has to be "Good." Because Good and Evil can only be discerned based on a standard for what Good and Evil are. Without a standard to compare something to, that thing cannot be said to be Good or Evil. So then what is the standard? The uncreated creator, the uncaused cause, the first and the last, the alpha and the omega, the bedrock on which all that is depends for continued existence. Nothing else CAN be the standard. Good must determined by comparison to the standard that is God's will. If not, then pick a different standard and tell me how it better serves as a universal standard for determining Platonic Good.
The example of an all powerful being that is evil is Satan. The example of an all powerful being that is good is Jesus. Satan would use his power if he was legally able to. Jesus can use his power at anytime, but has a will in line with God the Father. I think these two figures is to show what good and evil means and where it leads to. God created all of this and decided it is better to promise the self to goodness. Goodness creates and unifies, evilness destroys and consumes. Earth is a realm to teach us this and allow us to choose one over the other. God allows us our own will, where Satan would control our will if he could.
That’s… obvious given the title of a non believer? if you want to help anyone you have to actually identify the problem. WHY don’t they want to entertain GOD? Because GOD is touted by most prominent christians as being the pure and righteous and good feeling protector, when these non believers can see all of the not pleasant things GOD allows to happen to them. It doesn’t make sense to these people unless you confront with them the reality that GOD operates beyond good and evil and we don’t get to judge how it makes us feel and say ‘god is only good’
In my humble opinion, the fact that us.... humans... have the arrogance to question if God is good. Is it according to our social structures and standards. What is considered good? If God gives lessons, they almost never evoke positive emotions.
God is not capable of evil, refuse to intellectualize the simple Gospel of Gods overwhelming Goodness upon a lost and dying World. God is Not mocked, His Grace is sufficient you cannot earn it or give it away, His Mercies Endureth Forever. God is seeking those who Worship in Spirit and Truth. Jesus said "I must go that He might come" Our Comforter and Counselor my rod and staff in a World covered in gross Darkness. Become the Light, by the renewing of your mind! Jesus is an all consuming fire. 🔥🙏🏾🕊️
Hasn't God already tried to cleanse the Earth of sin? Why hasn't he showed up to restart humanity once more, with the worst atrocities we have seen in the past 1000 years or so? Why do 'good' people suffer in this world? Too many questions. Not enough straightforward answers. Clearly he doesn't care, and is not the omnipotent, omniscient being many believe he is.
Absolutely. And the conditions of each individuals judgements is PRECISELY how THEY judged others. All people will be judged according to how they judged their fellow man.
PROXIMITY, the closer we are to God the more righteous we act. The farther away we are from him, leaves us no choice but, to become unrighteous. (Side note: hellfire isn't biblical. Hell is 1st death or, common grave and lake of fire/gehenna is 2nd death. (Rev. 20: 14, ecc. 3: 20, ecc. 9: 4- 6). It tortures those not alive in a mental way being locked away forever. Note luke 16: 19- 28 that a single drop of water (lifes water, Jesus always said this) in this analogy was life. Lake of fire was a real place outside jeysalem wall, Jews knew if something was tossed in there would be gone forever (not burned forever) and completely destroyed by fire. More info. On catholicisim and false docrrine at JW website. Please remember that they do idolatry, same practice that Jehovah destroyed the Jews for doing {1 cor. 10: 14, gal. 5: 19- 21}.) Take care
It's kinda blatantly clear that god is either not all powerful or not all good. These two just wont go together given the facts. Isaiah 45:7 7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things
To be a legitimate God, yes he must be omnibenevolent. Thus natural evil proves there is no God. There might be an all powerful evil being though. So a Satan character could be real. But no, there's no God due to the requirement to always be good.
So, here's the issue with: You could consider the idea that the long term moral construct of action has to do with a grander concept of being. There's an artistic suggestion in a comic I once read that basically we, ALL OF US at ever point in time and in every life, are collectively one being that is God's child. In that way there may be a moral framework in that we must both experience and BE evil. Except that completely laughs at any extant religion in its complexity of need for our being. That's not the christian story and no religion takes it on properly, not even those with a reincarnation construct. The idea of "a" GOOD "God" is not impossible to conceive of, nor is it impossible to infer about, but the ultimate problem boils down to any powerful entity worth worship would not want it and the gods of extant and dead religions are provably false and ultimately unsatisfactory. And then how we would relate to this entity in no way relates to anything we currently know how to do or consider in relation to it. Even if there were a thing, everything we think about it is wrong and everything we might currently do misses the point.
The flaw in your logic here is the same flaw from the garden of Eden. You want to determine (or at least have come to a determination of) what is good and evil. But from an eternal perspective allowing suffering to exist to bring about other good like future gains or free will is much better.
Evil does not prove that there is no God, it's something that came with free will, therefore it has to be evil as also free will exists.Benevolence is just a random value or a false God you have put on a pedestal and have decided is your God.
@@calebeaton8777 No there is no excuse for natural evil such as tornadoes killing infants. Was God too weak to save them? Was he ignorant of their need? Was he just evil? Any one of those three disqualify it as a God by definition.
@@Kurtofon No there is no excuse for natural evil such as tornadoes killing infants. Was God too weak to save them? Was he ignorant of their need? Was he just evil? Any one of those three disqualify it as a God by definition.
If you actually have belief in God to talk like this means you never read the bible it clearly states his understanding is not ours. His will not ours. We do not understand what good and bad is do we. If you believe and know god you should not generalize such thoughts because the scripture of the seasons teaches us to trust in him.
Sometimes, Peterson feels like an atheist confusing the shi* outta the rest of us, at times like an apologist who tries to justify several projections of his mind as Truth, and at times a great Juggler of fancy words, jst to prove that he is the same as the rest of us, The endless debates on Religion and using it to justify the Evils of Mankind, well, Pretty much sums up our Hypocritical Society
Life's lessons in many ways has prouve Self realization is the way to understand GOD~
Yes. God brings not just good but the ultimate challenge and sometimes punishments.
@@budnrobots2968 For others Challenges can interprets as punishment's. That's the way I look at it. Personally I have gone thought very difficult times but never felt being punished because never felt alone @ life's path.
@@budnrobots2968 For others Challenges can interprets as punishment's. That's the way I look at it. Personally I have gone thought very difficult times but never felt being punished because never felt alone @ life's path.
God is not within the domain of good and evil. God defines what is good and what is evil. Whatever is with God is considered good, whatever is away from God is evil.
You are very Astute friend!! GOD is GOD does what wants!
pretty much, if God is real i would assume it would have the personality of "i destroyed planets full of life because i can, i'm God so it's correct to do because i said so", ofc maybe it's the opposite, just because we humans lose all logic when given total power maybe a GOD wouldn't fall into such weak state of mind.
That’s right up until the end. The end is the opposite of what jordan is saying here. According to JBP god is all encompassing but god is not just good. ‘not pleasure, certainly not the absence of pain.’
You’re lying to our kids and shunning them away by trying to convince them that the orchestrator of the universe will only please them.
That may be true, but its not true enough. God is so good that we can discover this and believe it deeply as fact because God is able to reveal himself as good and seems to want to do so. And even more so it seems psychologically important to be able to do this and discovering this is of immense psychological value.
Moreover, the lie that was sold in the garden to Adam and Eve and has perpetuated through time is that man can define good and evil apart from God, in essence becoming gods themselves.
Jesus said There is no one good only God
is good. Only God is Righteous.
But according to this video, God is more than good, he is literally all encompassing and ‘good’ is something we can experience by listening to GOD, but god is NOT concerned with what we want to be good. He has his own rules.
God is Love.
Ironically, even from an atheistic point of view, I agree with this. The older I get the more I realize that humanity is NOT inherently good. Goodness is learned. And, much more often than not, goodness is passed down through generations from some kind of familial/ancestral ties to a religion which hyper-focuses on living a moral, purposeful, and spiritually enlightened life. As a species, we were so uncertain about whether or not humanity was good or evil if left to our own devices for so very long. But, in my opinion, the verdict’s in. We’ve deliberated enough. Without a higher power, or an extremely compelling set of spiritual, and hierarchical/authoritarian/religious laws/codes of conduct, then humans will pursue and act on evil curiosities.
What about gods of war? They yearn battles and wars?
@@kohtalainenalias What does the Ultimate Being have to do with a lower principality? I mean I tend to know but I am not sure what this question is about
Still mind is absolute bliss. Nothing weighing on you heavy when you know so much anxiety and fear. I would say, it's a state of nirvana which is blissful. Religion and preaching is more palatable when you don't take the story so head on, but view as a 3rd party and what's the context of the situation. Then when you interpret it to modern similar behaviors/experiences, it's crazy it's the exact same today.
JP you do a great job at giving context to these conscripts. So then it makes it more relatable and creates "light bulb" moments.
I am once again asking you two to read Lewis.
I think Dr. Peterson would have such a meeting of the minds with Lewis.
I still can’t get over brining/creating a sentient life without consent (whether by a god or by our parents). Thats my sticking point. No matter what the “truth” is concerning life after death or the reason a supernatural deity created us, nobody giving consent to be thrown into existence trumps EVERYTHING to me.
No matter how “good” your god is, by thrusting us into a finite existence with the risk of infinite suffering (going to Hell) to me, makes everything afterward moot.
_"I still can’t get over brining/creating a sentient life without consent... No matter how “good” your god is, by thrusting us into a finite existence with the risk of infinite suffering (going to Hell) to me, makes everything afterward moot."_
But there's a contradiction there. Nobody is "thrust" into existence. Prior to existence, there is nothing there to "thrust" into existence. There is no preexistent form which would be better off having never been. There is no consent to be had, there is no one to ask for consent, because nothing exists prior to existing.
@@billbadson7598 Thank you for helping me make my point.
@@mjfraser04 Hard disagree. Either you've misunderstood me, or I've misunderstood you. It is right and correct and morally good to create life in this world. It is right and correct and morally good that life which chooses to do evil and remains unrepentant of that evil should suffer for all time.
If the Abyss is limitless then so to will the light that contests it be.
Do not believe in anything simply because you have heard it. Do not believe in anything simply because it is spoken and rumored by many. Do not believe in anything simply because it is found written in your religious books. Do not believe in anything merely on the authority of your teachers and elders. Do not believe in traditions because they have been handed down for many generations. But after observation, and analysis, when you find that anything agrees with reason, rationality, and is conducive to the good and benefit of one and all, then accept it and live up to it. - Buddha
taking the transcendent being off the table, is exactly what defines an atheist - like an Eskimo claiming there can be no elephants, or an African proclaiming there can be no ocean - they simply haven't realized what they think it is, isn't what it was intended to be seen as.
The desire for meaning and purpose is a human universal regardless of one's faith. Seeking maximal hedonic pleasure is not a sustainable long-term goal. Think about the celebrities with more money than they know what to do with who end up with alcohol or drug addictions and lives that spiral out of control. There's a reason self-made billionaires like Bezos, Musk, or Gates aren't just spending their waking hours lounging on the beach while sipping Mai Tais when they have the financial means to do so.
Not looking good seeing all these comments completely ignoring the points jordan is making. God is not just good, god is everything. ‘Good’ is a construct he gave us.
The question is illogical and unintelligent. Similarly one could ask: "Does mathematics have to be good?"
no good is not a construct he gave us. It is God. God is LITERALLY good. he IS, the very paradigm of goodness. The actual, ontologically identical substance of good itself.
Per the Gospel of Thomas, God is everything and everywhere. If true, then God may not be totally apart from evil.
@@Raiddd__ Have fun eating cake and busying yourself with the reproduction of the species, then. The universe has its challenges and if you haven’t found any lucky you.
@@Raiddd__ How is God good when he created autonomous angels with the ability to be selfish?
Sure would be interesting to see you and Russell Brand get together and talk about how you both became so openly religious after being attacked by the establishment. Could this happen?
Not necessarily. I should have thought of this.
When I heard the suffering versus happiness axis isn’t the correct evaluation, I was thinking the same thing. Without gratitude for blessings received, does this make one susceptible to losing the blessings?
What if the reason there is good and evil is because everything is energy self organizing into patterns as a way of storing energy for later use. If a pattern already exists then the energy needed to find that pattern again is reduced and that energy then can be used to find out form new patterns for later use. Wouldn’t that mean energy that forms the patterns that are evil make it easier not to waste energy on that pattern as well as use energy to find out form patterns that are good?
Holy Spirit is faithful to lead us into all Truth and will convict us when we sin... We have free will whether or not we will repent or not. If we repent, God is gracious and merciful to forgive us. If we choose not to seek God to show us any hidden sin, then it is not forgiven. The ball is in our court.
god simply is. without darkness and evil there is no reason to ascend to the heights of our potential characters, and everything would just be grey. goodness has no value without badness
The Creator is Always have Faith...
The more I think of these things the more I see God, heaven, angels, etc. as matters of definition. If your idea of heaven disgusts you, by definition you're having the wrong concept of it. Same with God. If you think God isn't righteous, you have the wrong idea of God.
God is neither good nor evil. Earthly concepts attribute these constructs to that which "created" us. A path to God creates discipline, dignity, and integrity. It creates positive changes within the self.
Over-indulgence is a path to ruin and distraction.
God isn't just good, God is perfect
Unfortunately for our emotions, ‘perfection’ doesn’t necessitate our happiness. But that’s not good or bad it’s objective reality!!! His strongest soldiers for his hardest battles is what i say
@@budnrobots2968 it's kind of like God would rather you sacrifice personal comfort to help somebody rather than to wallow in your own gluttonous pleasurable whims. Which would ultimately destroy you anyway.
😂
God isn't perfect. Have you taken a look around lately?
What you see today is a product of free will.
Whether you believe or not
So if existence is not possible without 'suffering' than what is life like, or will be like, in Heaven? And what will 'perfect' life look like when the Scriptures have been fulfilled and Earth 'restored'? If this already is 'perfection' since God can not create imperfection then what will the differences be? And what 'changed' after the fall of Adam and Eve? And why was Jesus' Sacrifice 'necessary'?
Because those holy events and things don’t have SCIENTIFIC or HISTORICAL implications, as REAL as they are. They are real in a different sense than the logical questions you’re proposing.
@@budnrobots2968 I agree, but then the entire conversation is mute! If God does not exist then the Question 'Does he have to be Good' is pointless. I brought up those questions for both the theists and those who perceive the Bible more allegorically, like Dr Peterson seems to do.
“Parents know their children will be hurt by the world”. THIS! Why bring life into a world that you (the parent) KNOW is cruel and will be a struggle for survival for their offspring?
Without using the Bible or resorting to faith-based claims, how is this ethical and moral?
Its not either they put their wants before everything else
God acts, we are the reaction. Good is purely editorial.
God is The Alpha and Omega observing our lives in reverse knowing the beginning from the end. For we are seated in heavenly places at the right hand of the Father who lives outside of Time and Space. For His ways are higher than ours, and so are His thoughts far higher than the dark thought leaders of our day holding a form of religion while denying the transformational Power within.
1/3 of heaven fell.
I would trust God's numbers
No 🎉
Thanks for honoring free speech.
If a god existed ... it could not "be" good and Judge-mental at the same time.
It would have to be one ... or the other.
“Since the masses of the people are inconstant, full of unruly desires, passionate, and reckless of consequences, they must be filled with fears to keep them in order.
The ancients did well, therefore, to invent gods, and the belief in punishment after death.” Roman historian, Polybius.
God created judgmental angels.
If God does not exist, everything is permissible.
There's no permission necessary. The axiom that OTHER PEOPLE MATTER is itself a limitation of the concept of true "freedom". With infinite power over the cosmos, or at least no limiting moral framework, there is no concept of permission.
That's a weak hypothesis and does not make sense
which God? if every culture has their own god and different values and views about morality, then do they all have permission to inflict their morals on other people as long as they believe they have a God giving them permission?
@@xshotgunmessage If God does not exist neither would we exist..
@@brianbridges8124 There is only one true God. All other entities are false gods, fallen angels or their offspring according to Genesis 6
You can't expect people who deny JESUS as GOD, to understand what it means for GOD to BE GOOD, it's in his nature.
Mark 10:18
And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.
This is him exalting the FATHER above himself, 3 persons, 1 being. 1 true living GOD, This isn't JESUS saying he isn't GOD, it's him exalting the FATHER above himself as GOD.
I wish and pray GOD will open the eyes of these two and ALL that deny the divinity of JESUS!
@@mysterial_1 Yes, GOD the father sent GOD the son forth! correct.
God transcends “good.” He is truly beyond words but one word that would give an idea is, God is “great.”
God is whatever people want him to be, you have Old testament God versus New testament god, Old testament God wasn't attracting many people into the tent so they came up with a warm fuzzy forgiving God and the money started flowing in
Gods must be good. If Gods are not good, we have hell, no matter what we do. The purpose of life is happiness, including meaning and purpose in life. the problem is if gods are good, why are there evils in the world? and goods must endure the evils, but goods always win, as omniscience, omnipotence, omnipresent gods.
God is evil, because God created evil.
World of Karma 😊🥰😆❤️💛❤️🔥 Totally, Totally 💯 1000% Real and True. I can't express or prove it with "facts" like I can TRUTH, that knowing, infinitely knowing calm and ease with the energy or vibes you know and feel is right, along with the first hand witness, testimony, and story I've lived and conquered in a sense..
Constellation gods
Why is this even a question?
Of course one can stretch, deform, twist, and pervert concepts of " goodness. " What seems good to a limited human mind may be way out of the league of an infinite mind. The bible has much to say on this topic. Want specifics ???? Ask . . . and ye shall receive.
This!!!! No evangelical oversimplified BS.. It’s complicated up there!!!
@@budnrobots2968 that's not a question. And i agree about complications. Making all relevant scriptures harmonize requires a bit of mental gymnastics.
Christ is Lord 🙏
You can’t propose the idea of bringing life to the world not knowing how much suffering or non suffering there may be as a result. The thought experiment is utterly flawed. To have any concept of life or consciousness requires a basic knowledge of such phenomena.
If we say God is good, we are indirectly diminishing God and subjecting him to our human standards and understanding.
If one say God is good to me, I have no problem with that. But if that person says God is good or evil, then that person will have to explain what he means by good or evil and how God fits into his understanding of good and evil.
To me. God is not a good God, neither is God and evil God, God is simply God. And we can't subject a being that created the universe and controls it into our own insignificant moral compass
Of course God has to be "Good." Because Good and Evil can only be discerned based on a standard for what Good and Evil are. Without a standard to compare something to, that thing cannot be said to be Good or Evil. So then what is the standard? The uncreated creator, the uncaused cause, the first and the last, the alpha and the omega, the bedrock on which all that is depends for continued existence. Nothing else CAN be the standard. Good must determined by comparison to the standard that is God's will.
If not, then pick a different standard and tell me how it better serves as a universal standard for determining Platonic Good.
God is a contradiction according to your logic. Why would a "good" God created his own sins in the form of autonomous selfish angels?
Of course not. If I don't have to be good, then neither does God.
The example of an all powerful being that is evil is Satan. The example of an all powerful being that is good is Jesus. Satan would use his power if he was legally able to. Jesus can use his power at anytime, but has a will in line with God the Father. I think these two figures is to show what good and evil means and where it leads to. God created all of this and decided it is better to promise the self to goodness. Goodness creates and unifies, evilness destroys and consumes. Earth is a realm to teach us this and allow us to choose one over the other. God allows us our own will, where Satan would control our will if he could.
Sadly, humans dont learn much from good.
I think you just named the problem for the non believers right there at the end, Jordan. They don’t want to even entertain the idea of God…
That’s… obvious given the title of a non believer? if you want to help anyone you have to actually identify the problem.
WHY don’t they want to entertain GOD?
Because GOD is touted by most prominent christians as being the pure and righteous and good feeling protector, when these non believers can see all of the not pleasant things GOD allows to happen to them.
It doesn’t make sense to these people unless you confront with them the reality that GOD operates beyond good and evil and we don’t get to judge how it makes us feel and say ‘god is only good’
i want you to becom truly spiritual and explain to us the laboratory of the devil
There is something special about this mans brain and God only knows man can only recognize is absurd to me... In a good way
JP is getting suppressed by YT?
Jesus loves you
New phone, who dis.
In my humble opinion, the fact that us.... humans... have the arrogance to question if God is good. Is it according to our social structures and standards.
What is considered good? If God gives lessons, they almost never evoke positive emotions.
God is not capable of evil, refuse to intellectualize the simple Gospel of Gods overwhelming Goodness upon a lost and dying World. God is Not mocked, His Grace is sufficient you cannot earn it or give it away, His Mercies Endureth Forever. God is seeking those who Worship in Spirit and Truth. Jesus said "I must go that He might come" Our Comforter and Counselor my rod and staff in a World covered in gross Darkness. Become the Light, by the renewing of your mind! Jesus is an all consuming fire. 🔥🙏🏾🕊️
How did God created his own sins (autonomous selfish angels) when God is not capable of evil?
Hasn't God already tried to cleanse the Earth of sin? Why hasn't he showed up to restart humanity once more, with the worst atrocities we have seen in the past 1000 years or so? Why do 'good' people suffer in this world? Too many questions. Not enough straightforward answers. Clearly he doesn't care, and is not the omnipotent, omniscient being many believe he is.
God is everything or he is nothing.
Well if he’s everything then he’s also the nothing that exists as well????
You still get judged
Absolutely. And the conditions of each individuals judgements is PRECISELY how THEY judged others. All people will be judged according to how they judged their fellow man.
focus on what's real. what tribe was Jesus from?
PROXIMITY, the closer we are to God the more righteous we act.
The farther away we are from him, leaves us no choice but, to become unrighteous.
(Side note: hellfire isn't biblical. Hell is 1st death or, common grave and lake of fire/gehenna is 2nd death. (Rev. 20: 14, ecc. 3: 20, ecc. 9: 4- 6). It tortures those not alive in a mental way being locked away forever. Note luke 16: 19- 28 that a single drop of water (lifes water, Jesus always said this) in this analogy was life. Lake of fire was a real place outside jeysalem wall, Jews knew if something was tossed in there would be gone forever (not burned forever) and completely destroyed by fire. More info. On catholicisim and false docrrine at JW website. Please remember that they do idolatry, same practice that Jehovah destroyed the Jews for doing {1 cor. 10: 14, gal. 5: 19- 21}.)
Take care
Does math have to be good?
1 + 2 = 4 is bad math.
First
But didn't Jesus say, 'The first will be last and the last will be first'???...Tee hee...
He has to exist first.
"Does God Have To Be Good?"
First, God has to be defined. Has JBP done that yet?
@@Yesica1993 u reek of pride
@@Yesica1993 females like you would’ve eaten the apple…
Might makes right and God is the strongest. Therefore God decides what is good and what is not.
It's much deeper than that. You own your work. If God created the universe he sets the bounds for it.
God is not Entirely Good nor entirely Powerful.
I'm still staying atheist and will carry on trusting science
Science explains how.
God explains why.
@@yosefsantoni599 History explains why.
: Without (Traditional - not “traditional”) metaphysics, everything said about the matter is in vain ignorance. Modernity is metaphysically bereft.
Who's created evil,sin and he'll,then,if not God and His pervert imagination?!
Indeed! God is evil, because God created evil.
It's kinda blatantly clear that god is either not all powerful or not all good. These two just wont go together given the facts.
Isaiah 45:7
7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things
To be a legitimate God, yes he must be omnibenevolent. Thus natural evil proves there is no God. There might be an all powerful evil being though. So a Satan character could be real. But no, there's no God due to the requirement to always be good.
So, here's the issue with: You could consider the idea that the long term moral construct of action has to do with a grander concept of being. There's an artistic suggestion in a comic I once read that basically we, ALL OF US at ever point in time and in every life, are collectively one being that is God's child. In that way there may be a moral framework in that we must both experience and BE evil.
Except that completely laughs at any extant religion in its complexity of need for our being. That's not the christian story and no religion takes it on properly, not even those with a reincarnation construct. The idea of "a" GOOD "God" is not impossible to conceive of, nor is it impossible to infer about, but the ultimate problem boils down to any powerful entity worth worship would not want it and the gods of extant and dead religions are provably false and ultimately unsatisfactory. And then how we would relate to this entity in no way relates to anything we currently know how to do or consider in relation to it.
Even if there were a thing, everything we think about it is wrong and everything we might currently do misses the point.
The flaw in your logic here is the same flaw from the garden of Eden. You want to determine (or at least have come to a determination of) what is good and evil. But from an eternal perspective allowing suffering to exist to bring about other good like future gains or free will is much better.
Evil does not prove that there is no God, it's something that came with free will, therefore it has to be evil as also free will exists.Benevolence is just a random value or a false God you have put on a pedestal and have decided is your God.
@@calebeaton8777 No there is no excuse for natural evil such as tornadoes killing infants. Was God too weak to save them? Was he ignorant of their need? Was he just evil? Any one of those three disqualify it as a God by definition.
@@Kurtofon No there is no excuse for natural evil such as tornadoes killing infants. Was God too weak to save them? Was he ignorant of their need? Was he just evil? Any one of those three disqualify it as a God by definition.
If you actually have belief in God to talk like this means you never read the bible it clearly states his understanding is not ours. His will not ours. We do not understand what good and bad is do we. If you believe and know god you should not generalize such thoughts because the scripture of the seasons teaches us to trust in him.
Why should we believe you lol
@xshotgunmessage believe in what you want but remember when you face the consequenses of your own free will without using the teachings of the bible
@@Robert-zx9xwgreat point!
Sometimes, Peterson feels like an atheist confusing the shi* outta the rest of us, at times like an apologist who tries to justify several projections of his mind as Truth, and at times a great Juggler of fancy words, jst to prove that he is the same as the rest of us,
The endless debates on Religion and using it to justify the Evils of Mankind, well,
Pretty much sums up our Hypocritical Society
God never existed
I see...