which ohlins setup specifically? i’m not happy with my current bilsteins and look and solutions with external reservoirs, high and low speed dampening etc
@@mcintosh.motorsI have the Road and Track Ohlins on my F80. I'm on the fence about them. I was expecting a more sorted ride from Ohlins. Originally, I purchased the kit with the stock 90/190 N/mm springs and it was just too stiff around town. I then swapped to 80F/160R and it's made a big difference. There are now a few companies who offer a revalved kit with different springs for street use - for example, Turner Motorsport or 3DM Motorsport (if you're in the US). My manual F80 is also staying with me... Great car 😊
They should've tested the F80 competition, which fixes a lot of the gripes people had with the original. Also, the LCI F80 had the nob and touch screen, just like the G80.
Underrated comment right here! This is the answer. Manual F80/F82 is Competition and Executive package with the carbon fiber roof(no sunroof) is where it's at.
Had an F80 DCT, for the most part loved it for Dad duty but missed a manual. Ordered a G80 manual, spec'd exactly as I wanted, waited the 5 months for it to built, etc. Drove it home for the first time in January and it felt so similar to my wife's X3 I got a lump in my throat. Buyer's remorse bad. Matt hit it on the head. The F80 feels like a sports car even when going slow, the G80 hauls the mail and no doubt the chassis has much higher limits and is fun at those limits but for most of your daily driving its just too soft. Can't keep of the sites looking for a cherry F80 manual or Blackwing.
Well explained..this seems to be a common gripe with the G8x. Heavy steering..numb..too heavy..top end performance a step above..but when do you experience it..its not as nimble.
Funny you say that because I'm looking for an F80 or G80 for dad duty but cant seem to stop also searching for a CT4V Blackwing. I'm just afraid the 4BW is going to be too small.
Now THIS is the Smoking Tire that I have missed! Pure car speak, pure enthusiast information. I have stuck in as a subscriber despite significant differences and through the lack of "Tuned" type content. If you want views keep making this type of video. We get enough political opinions from the rest of the world and come to places like this to escape the tribalism and enjoy our car tribe. Thank you guys for producing an informative car nerd video after what seems like years of hiatus. Bravo
I'm totally with Matt here and love the looks so much more of the older M3. Love the interior, no hideous grill and the overall simpcity of the package. Also, he's spot on when it comes to the dashboard and actual gauges and love the analogue dials. In the real world, you don't need any more power.. Just have a few thousand for maintenance on hand.
My G80 was a manual with the normal seats (Tartufo leather is ONLY available in regular seats in the US). I adored that car, put nearly 75k miles on it between Nov 2021 and Dec 2023. I still think the F80 is prettier, but the G80 is the absolute answer for a new, do it all car for enthusiasts. I spent as much time taking my daughter to school as I did burning through Michelins on backroads in various states. Mine also had the 2 screen setup versus the large single screen of the LCI M cars. The looks never bothered me since you can’t see the front of the car from the drivers seat, but I am having the same amount of fun in my newly acquired E36 vert despite being MUCH slower. Admittedly… seeing my daughter giggle with hands in the wind like she’s on a roller coaster from the back seat may be the reason I hold this car in such high regard.
Savagegeese made these remarks earlier when he did his long term review of his Type-R. 90% of these cars all offer that feeling. They only make you feel something when you are going 9/10ths or 10/10ths flat out. Around town they are so insulated and riddled with tech and are heavy you don't feel anything. Especially in modern turbo charged cars. The Type-R and Type-S give you SOME of that old school feeling of making the driver part of the experience. And as Matt said here, a F80 M3 will give you more of that because its higher performance.
I think light weight also plays a big role in how “fun” a car feels at low speeds. The CTR/Type S are under 3200 lbs so it’s a big difference in weight. Do you think that makes for a more fun car in the canyons despite being FWD?
I actually picked up a type S after dropping the G80. Not nearly as fast, but I don't care. It's light, responsive, steering and shifter input feel great. It's just fun to drive. And that's what I care about nowadays. I don't chase straight line speed. Couldn't care less about 0-60 times
I agree, F80 is the best looking sedan. Followed by the E90. My coworker recently got a G80 M3 Comp. Seeing it everyday certainly helps the design grow on you, but it's still a hideous design regardless of how much you look at it.
Reviewers/journalists always dog on every new M3 and then sing their praises when the successor comes out. Look at the history- E90 comes out: too soft, lost the I6, too plain, etc. F80 comes out: too harsh, unfeeling, sounds bad, etc. G80 comes out: bloated, not emotional/special, ugly, etc. The truth is every M3 has been excellent, and the newer model is always substantially better than the old. They did not effectively communicate how much better/faster the G80 is than the F80, it is SHOCKING. And the value play doesn't make sense because you can get a used G80 for mid 60's all day.
Huh. I could not disagree more. I've had the F80 M3, an F82 M2, an M2 Competition, and now have that same drivetrain in an X3M Comp.. and I really do not like the new ones. There is something squirrely about the xDrive system that does unpredictable things when you're thrashing it. The old cars behave as you expect them to, you can rip the car as hard as you want and the rear behaves predictably. Now I don't think that's the case. Sure, for track driving I have no dobut the G80 is faster. But in terms of just sliding the car around and getting in trouble, I think the F80 was the end of the era.
I’ve owned my E90 M3 for over 7 years. I know I’m in the minority of M3 owners but I like the F80 and G80 quite a lot. The G80’s are insanely fast. I like that the F80 still has a double clutch available. I’m the weirdo that wouldn’t take a manual in either option. The manual transmissions are kinda crap. The electric power steering isn’t as good but hydraulic supremacy in my E90 will be hard to beat. Good video friends.
Agreed. I'd daily driven manuals for 10 years (E46 M3, WRX STi, B8.5 S4 all manual), but I bought an F82 M4 Competition with the DCT and I've never looked back or regretted it. I really, really like the DCT.
The F80 manual M3 was the worst manual driving experience I've ever had. I've never driven a modern manual transmission BMW where the manual inputs were well resolved with one another and felt natural. Ultimate marketing machine.
Love my 2016 F82 Competition and I plan on driving it for another 5-10 years. No mechanical issues at all and still looks great. 60K miles and not a single rattle. Big smile every time my garage door goes up. 👍😉🏁 Agree with Matt about the analog gauges. I’ll go analog with as many buttons as possible for as long as possible 😉
F82 is pretty much perfect, especially in manual but I don't like how they add complexity like the valvtronic variable valve lift. Wonder how long that whole mechanism lasts?
I owned a manual f80 for 2 years, a dct f87 m2 competition for 1 year and now i have a g80 m3 xdrive since 5 months. The f80 for a daily with the manual transmision was not so fun, but as a fun car it was good, never loved the manual transmision of the f80. The m2 comp felt special in every case and the dct gearbox was great. The G80 as a daily is not so special(maybe the coupe form gives some specialness for the m4), you need to floor it always otherwise it is like a normal 3 series with the sport seats, but i never felt like i didn’t want to daily the car unlike the f80 and f87. If i start to get bored, i go on winding roads and i realize how great the g80 is. For me the G80 is much better.😊
As the owner of an f80 that sees 80% track time, I love this content. Thanks guys. Would love to hear a little CT4-V BW comparo thrown in as a middle ground price point.
@@fantastic9864 did you own an f80 previously? Thinking about the 4BW as a daily until the aftermarket suspension and braking market catches up. The braking system is my biggest area of concern for track work.
@@allthepizzainmybelly1302 No, but I was cross shopping. I was able to get the 4BW 6 months old CPO for just a few thousand more than a manual F80 so it made it an easy choice for me. I have my first track day with it next month so I'll see how the brakes hold up. I'm not too worried about it since I believe the performance academy uses stock brakes and their cars are hammered on.
@@allthepizzainmybelly1302 I've tracked mine three days last year. Brakes hold up good but will fade towards the end of a brake heavy track at the end of a 20m session. That's on the OEM pads. A set of DTC60s will fix that up easily though. Same calipers and rotors off of a SS1LE. Depending how hard you push, the off the shelf experience holds up great if you ask me.
After driving many many G80’s and owning over 12 m3’s now….I 110% agree with Matt on the G80. I dislike the screens, I dislike the looks (especially compared to an f80) and you really can’t beat the f80 for bang for your buck. They’re pretty reliable (daily drive mine and out nearly 5k miles per month on it) in my experience I’ve had 0 issues with it. It you keep them stock and keep up on maintenance it’s a very very solid car. I’m not sure why the other guy is railing the F80 so hard, if you want amazing steering feel buy an Alfa Romeo Giulia Quad…but they do not even come close on reliability. I have a quad as well and it has been sitting at the dealer for an electrical issue since December. If you want an amazing car that won’t cost you 6 figures buy an f80 or if you want better sound an e9x m3. Imo you can’t beat an f80 for a daily/weekend/all around car it’s perfect
I owned the old one and now the new one. The new one drives better , just put it in MDM and you drift at every corner in a controllable manner. F80 was a hard horse to tame. Almost crashed it twice. I somewhat disagree about the new one not showing its capability at low speeds, because of linear torque response and better chassis control it is much easier to access the performance in the new one than the old one without worry of losing control. It was difficult to do little drifts here and there in the old one, as you mention it is twitchy, but the new one is much more controllable giving you the option to have a little fun going to the grocery store. the old one was just too rough and noisy for every day driving. they added much more sound insulation in the G80, it is a civilized car now.... BMW M is about performance and luxury. the old one hardly had luxury manners. One thing I definitely miss and not mentioned here is the F80 DCT vs G80 ZF wet clutch. The old one was much faster and crisper to shift I believe under 10 msec shift compared to 150 msec shift... don't like the ZF as much even in the most aggressive setting. BTW you can’t get a great condition F80 for that cheap unless it’s beat up. A great example still runs 50-60K. with running costs (out of warranty) the difference between the two is less than what you think.... Everything else you mention is absolutely correct. Oddly I think the new one looks great and so different that will become a classic just for being controversial 20 years from now. The last non hybrid non electric M3. given the higher price they are more rare and exclusive than the old one.
well, I went with the G80 RWD competition without the carbon buckets. also drops the msrp from $100k+ for the xdrive to around $86k. my best friend had a 2014 F82 and than 2018 F80 comp, so I know how those drives. Also it is pretty tough to find a F80 with lower mileage that is under $50k and dealing with the reliability issue with the older car.
FYI, the later year F80 has a touchscreen that's just coded out for some reason. You can turn it on with some simple codes, and it works great except that the screen is a little far away. I'm guessing that's why it's not on by default. If we're going to highlight forged internals then I think some basic coding can be in the convo. Overall, the f80 has been great for some light mods, not sure how the 100k G89 holds in that respect.
As a F82 Owner myself, the price difference does not justify the pros of the G8X, until they depreciate a bit, then maybe ill consider. LOVE MY F82, F8X GANG HERE!
I had an F80 6MT with 18inch OEM wheels I thought the car was great ZERO complaints. I now have a 2022 G80 6MT. The biggest difference to me is the G80 is more luxurious and that's what i wanted. For me having the 6MT makes it fun just driving at normal speeds. You don't need to drive 10/10ths to enjoy the car. I'm keeping my G80 right now it's 100% stock.
I’m definitely bias but I absolutely love the f series cars. The styling is excellent both exterior and interior, plus I love physical buttons. A touchscreen equals a dirty screen.
Just got my g80 m3. In black I actually love the way it looks but the technology is brutal . I daily drive a 5th gen 4 runner so I hate not having buttons or an analog dash in the beamer. I guess I will get use to it. Still in break in period. Time will tell. Great video !
I noticed there was a lot of saying that F8x chassis was boring. There is one major reason for this and that is that you have traction control still on MDM mode doesn’t count. MDM mode is super invasive and as you get on throttle with these cars, it’s probably blinking all the way up to 60 miles an hour. Car is an absolute animal will not disappoint before putting it into a ditch if you’re not a good driver. On the FX8 platform, the DCT is where it’s at.
As usual, I agree with a lot of the points in this video. Coming out of my 6MT E46 M3 coupe, I wanted a newer M car as a semi-daily driver and weekend backroads cruiser, but didn't know if I wanted to go F chassis or G chassis (I drove a 6MT E92 M3, loved the S65 but the ownership experience isn't for me). Background - I work for a high line car dealer and get to drive just about everything from relatively affordable sports cars, to 7-figure hypercars, and everything in between. Ended up buying a CPO '20 F82 M4 Competition with the DCT. I've driven a G80 Competition Xdrive (auto) and a G82 Competition (RWD, auto) and I like just about everything about my F82 more, minus the extra power from the S58. I like the DCT over the 8 speed auto, it seems to just have more personality. The biggest swing to me was the exterior styling and the interior on the F8x cars. The 2018+ F8x cars feel right in that sweet spot of timelessness - more modern feeling thanks to the LCI in 2018, but still physical buttons for important things and physical analog gauges, with toys like HUD and wireless Apple CarPlay. Also, in 2019 and 2020, the MMI screen in the M4 is a touch screen. The Competitions also got quite a bit of suspension and differential revision to help with a lot of the complaints on the earlier F8x cars. I can't think of another sports car I'd like to own, at least for the way I use my car, short of $100k. It really is a great platform.
Right! I was in the camp of people that hated F80s because of all the bad reviews about them but hadnt driven one. Then finally last year I drove one and bought it the next day. People hated that it was bigger like an M5... To which I say, people have always loved M5s!
I’m a little late to this video and as an F80 6spd owner from new in 2015 I’m a little biased. I can agree the rear suspension is a little harsh, mine doesn’t have car play and it was just before LTE (RIP 3G). But, the fact that you can turn off traction completely and select your own gear with proper gear ratios (for those that understand gearing in most cars are set for emissions and noise) and have all the torque when the differential locks up. That’s a thing of beauty. I think the issue most people have is it requires finesse and dare I say skill. People have become too reliant on technology and torque management. They just want to floor it everywhere like we did in a ‘94 civic and still have traction. People aren’t really looking for a drivers car… they want a car that flatters their lack of driving skill. The F80 rewards those who know. Throw on some camber plates and an adjustable toe link and it’s perfect. Oh, does great with a baby seat in the back. 93k miles later and me and my 9 yr old still love to go “weee”!
So I own an e92 M3 dct comp. Bought a comp f80 manual. Sold the f80 because I kept comparing it to my e92 and how dull it felt. When I sold it I realized that you cannot compare it to the e9x. From the f80 to the g80 they mastered the everyday sport car luxury sedan which the e9x is a lot of car to drive on the daily. I ended up buying a manual g80. In many ways it feels like the f80. The tech feels relatively the same because I bought a really low optioned g80. The g80 has a nice linear build of boost versus the f80. The g80 sounds a bit better than the f80. But, I will have to say the f80 was the Pinnacle of exterior design. The g80 is beautiful to me despite the grill, but the f80 was undeniably beautiful to everyone. Now, I got a 2022 manual g80 so it does not have that the humongous screen. Aside from black wheels, sport line lights, interior carbon, and bucket seats it does not have any other options adding to tech so i think that may be the way to go when optioning a g80. I'll have to say my only gripes with the g80 is the interior is nice but very creaky over bumps. I feel like the e90x was more put together. I also do not like how the g80 idles and sounds as it idles. It's not a very smoothe motor when at a standstill. But with that being said my heart still thinks the e9x models are the best. The high redline and V8 sound cannot be replicated aside from comparing it to vehicles that are in another league such as a gt3 or a zo6 that have that high revving exotic sound and feel. Due to the fact that I can't purchase either of those, in choose to keep the e9x. I also feel that the g80 may be the final manual/ all motor non electric m car so it will be worth keeping as well as an ode to the Pinnacle of a generation
Good video. S55 has fully forged internals. In the start of the g80 test drive, you spoke about the forged internals as if the f80 didn't. Just my 2cents. Keep up the great videos!
A comparison I’d love to see as their prices seem to be getting very close together or at least will be in a couple years is a used F80 vs used CT4V Blackwing.
I seriously don't agree how you guys say so bluntly that you should not option the carbon seats. Everyone I know that has tried those seats myself included has agreed that they're way superior to the standard seats. I feel they are extremely comfortable the only problem being getting in and out. The standard seats offer no support at all and at the end of the day this isn't an M5, you're gonna want to track it or have fun in the canyons which the standard seats do an awful job of keeping you in place. You should emphasize that seat comfort at the end of the day is also subjective, not just straight up tell people not to get the carbon buckets because someone might actually listen to you and end up disappointed. Agree on everything else said in the review though and thank you for the free content.
I have 2020 M4 Comp.. DCT. My car has the LCI tweaks.. the S55 has forged internals .so I’m not sure what you guys were talking about. I don’t know what year F8 M3 guys are driving, but Bmw revised the suspension for the LCI competition and power delivery is amazing. My car is the heritage edition package and I have the Mperformance suspension. G80 is a slapping of Jenkee in between car that Bmw built to hold them over for the electric stuff.
S55 has forged aluminum alloy pistons and piston rings but cast conrods. Zach mentioned the B58 but that has a forged crank and conrods too, but cast pistons. Either way, S58 is top dog but unless you're aiming for crazy amounts of HP, all three motors are going to be capable decent tuning on the stock block/internals.
This was a fun video to watch!! Both generations are excellent IMO. I do wish I could have loaned you my 18 as it’s a near stock Competition model 6M with 1/5 the miles of the red one. Turner shifter bushings and upgraded trans mount also solve the meh shifter feel so overall the car is excellent to drive.
I had an e46, two F80s (6MT and DCT) then a G80 M3CS. I’m over the grille, but hated it at first. I loved my F80 manual with cloth seats. CS was a different beast tho.
I have a manual e36m sedan and manual e46m. I love both but I had an Evo 8 prior and really miss the boost. There’s something about an f80 with the 666m wheels that makes me want to get rid of both
Zach starting the comparison by quoting stats reminds me of people comparing tech by quoting memory and processor speeds. For me, cars are about the experience and emotions that they evoke. Those aren't as quantifiable, but to me they are more important. I get it that everyone's different and maybe Zach and people like him get their enjoyment from stats and numbers - to each their own.
Props for all the effort covering the beaver teeph LOL... Gotta say, I do agree with all Matt's points on the F80, and that's why it would be my choice if I had that cash (specially for the insurance and maintenance)... The F80 seems to be a hell of a car, pretty, with gauges and most modern technology that I would actually want, no ball holders, and manual!
The b58 has forged rods and a forged crank, which is one of the reasons it can make so much power reliably. What forged pieces is the b58 missing compared to the s58?
Hi performance Mahle forged pistons from the factory, lightweight forged crank, valves and springs etc. I have both engines. B58 is a nice "truck" engine, S58 is a race engine. They are very different in characteristics, internal parts and design. Cooling system, lubrication system, forced induction system, etc. are very different.
@kcw9313 Not sure if you are trying to defend your b58 or dissing on S58. Again, just for you, homey S58 is a motorsport engine. Having a dry sump is not needed or required for the engine to be classified as a race engine. In S58, there are many elegant engineering solutions that will give you many worry free miles on the street and race track.
Having just gone from a comp DCT F80 to a manual G80. I agree with Matt. There's a certain.. rowdiness or fuzziness that's missing. The relatively uncouth nature of the F80 is definitely missed. How it is so peaky. How the DCT was lurchy. The F80 was special even at low speeds. The G80 you'd have to push it really hard to enjoy it. The things we lose in the name of progress.
F82 M4cs owner here. Tried to convince myself a few times to get a G80/2 but keep failing. Might just wait for the G82 M4cs. Side note - slap a BM3 on the F80 for $600 and dial steering and power delivery at your will.
Great video lads. I had a F and now a G touring. So much faster and more comfortable, (no buckets) as a daily, plus wagon! Through a damp rainforest it’s much quicker than even my GT3. Climate controls are fine once you’re accustom to the screen.
Driven both of these in anger…. Owned the ‘17 LCI F80 Comp with DCT, and did a 2-day M-School with a lot of seat time in the RWD G80 Comp. Also, I have owned the ‘20 F97 X3M Comp, and I currently own the ‘21 LCI F90 Comp (which is the best choice for my use case - 18k miles a year with a lot of rainy highway driving). BMW manuals are average, the DCT in the F80 was special. It felt special going slow too. The new 8 spd ZF is smoother and shifts very quickly, but lacks the (I don’t know) “thump” of the redline shifts of the DCT. If you want the fastest track car, get G80 xDrive Comp. If you want a really fast, but better steering track car, the G80 Comp. If you want the newest with a manual, G80. If you want a better looking and still really fast car, I recommend the F80 Comp with the DCT. Get the manual if you don’t drive in a lot of traffic and that’s really your thing, but know it’s not as good. If you live somewhere where it rains a lot (like me) or sees ice/snow, the high level of low RPM Torque causes the F80’s to get sketchy pretty easily. The LCI is better than the original, but it can still put a skid in your pants. On a dry track with grip (I did several laps at COTA) the DCT & M-DCT settings will keep things manageable. If it’s slick, however, it’s a serious handful. Fun, but not fast. So, why now an F90 M5? It’s great looking, only a little bigger and heavier, it’s fast as hell, & handles better than it should all while being more comfortable! Get a CPO version of this before they’re impossible to find. Right now they price better than a new G80 for the most part.
He also said the new Tesla Model 3 Performance made an M3 redundant. Which I kind of get because if you're just going to drive a heavy car around that is mostly good at going really fast, why bother with a bad sounding gas engine and gears when you can just fly silent with electric? Since all the feel an fizz has been ironed out of the car anyway.
@@TheBucketOfTruth neaah; he is becoming a best buddy with all electric cars manufacturers because #early access bring tons of views which, in turn, brings tons of money. Also the controversy sets a high engagement with the audience and that's also beneficial; it is literally "how to be successful on youtube in 7 easy steps" type of plan.(and, unfortunately, it works)
@@eugenux I actually believe him though because once driver engagement goes out the window as the advantage for the gas car (or noise), then why not just have electric? Cause the driver engagement on the M3 is suffering and they don't sound very good either. Remember we're not talking about an old Porsche here vs a new electric car, we're talking about a performance daily driver sedan. And the Tesla is also 500 hp, also 4000 lbs. And it's half the price of the M3. And I literally hate Elon Musk and anything he's associated with by extension, so I'm the last person to want to admit this sort of thing.
F82 M4 comp here. Buddy got G82. Still love my F82. The one here isn’t comp package on the f80 which makes a big difference in suspension and other areas. F body all the way. The last of the greats
Funnily enough a CTR is what I’m considering at the moment - truth is it’ll come with a warranty and likely be reliable and 300bhp is enough for the road… Might have to drive an F80 to make sure though…
This is about the realest and most honest G80 vs F80 review I've seen by a mile... i agree w all points on the G80... its a disconnected car that needs to be pushed too hard... the f80 is not perfect but its wildly fun and still capable.
I cannot believe they didn’t compare cars with similar transmissions. The F80’s DCT is so much better the the G series tranny. That’s what makes the difference in the cars in my opinion.
I could never own a car that I didnt want to turn around to look at after I parked it and thats the g80. There is a magic to a light weight car that cannot be overcome with tech and fancy dampers. F80 all the way
This style of video is so fun to watch. Seems like this is also a model of how to keep making great videos for enthusiasts despite less new affordable enthusiast cars coming out
9:25 THE BLURRED FACE OF THE G80 LMFAO I do think the F80 is a compelling used buy but I think whenever I'm within firing range of an M3, I'd wait for the G80. It has the E36 badboy smut factor, it's completely unloved rn. It's the M3 996. I like that about it. It's maximum M3 obnoxiousness But... the F80 is getting down there. The nuances are definitely interesting! Definitely think though that the OG M2 is the 2010s BMW I'd consider buying
@@diltd3989 Oh yeah definitely, it always swings around. 996s, 964s and E36s were all hated at one point, they're revered now, 996s are on the upswing for instance. I should know, I own an E36 sedan and had to see the bad press it got for so long 😁
F87 M2 Comp. Easily the best modern BMW. CS is better obviously but they are expensive. M2 Comp gives you everything the F80 M3 does but with better feel.
At the end of the day people are almost exclusively buying the g80 xdrive to mod for straight line speed. Downpipes, tune, and some ethanol and you have a 700+whp car that does 60-130 in the 4s and 5s on the stock motor/trans. Also running sub 9.5s (plaid times) in the 1/4.
5:05 huh so I had to check on this. Yes the S58 has fully forged internals, while the S55 has forged aluminum alloy pistons and piston rings BUT cast conrods. B58 has arguably a larger aftermarket due to the larger demograph, and has a forged crank and conrods but cast piston.
Its crazy you guys just came out with this video! Im looking at both of these right now! Moving on from my Focus RS. I think there good options to move up
@Patrick_Hession98 I'm really wanting another manual. I wish there was a manual in the competition for both models! That might be the deciding factor on which one I get
Great presentation from both presenters, though Matt wins the argument. The DSG equipped F80 would’ve added further weight for that specialness and occasion. I’ve just bought a 2017 M4C in the UK, with 43k miles, for £27500 (about 35k dollars at our current dismal exchange rate). I extended the warranty with BMW for £850 so no tuning, but as Matt says, I don’t need to go any faster. It’s quick enough. An F80 would’ve cost £7-10k more to a similar spec and age making the F82 an absolute performance bargain. I could have afforded the G82 series, but I’d rather spend the difference on fuel, maintenance and road trips. With a car that’s ‘too new’, I feel more inhibited actually driving it and enjoying it. The older car got my vote. In a few years, I’ll likely buy the newer car, but I’ll avoid those seats with the nutcrackers 😂
I own an F82 M4 Competition, and have been waiting a long time for you guys to take a look at the F8X again, particularly as it stacks up against G8X. I think you have a couple videos in an older format of heavily modified ones, and the GTS, which didn't help me much when I was shopping a couple years ago. In fact, it seems like none of the UA-camrs I follow like Doug DeMuro or Throttle House have anything on these, so thanks for doing this. I agree with your criticisms of the F8X. The suspension is something I continue to consider upgrading. The Comp is even firmer than what you guys drove. Weirdly, I've started trying my commute with the adapters in Sport (medium) because Comfort (soft) oscilates for quite awhile on our crappy LA streets. I have found that upgrading to Pilot Sport 4S from the OE Pilot Super Sport helped noticeably with compliance and noise, though. That said, I'm really happy with just about everything else with my car. The power is more than sufficient. I was on Big Tujunga last week, and it's hard to imagine another 100+ horsepower doing anything to improve the experience. I already run out of road in most places before the S55 really stretches its legs. The front-end grip is pretty immense, especially with the new tires. The interior is simple in a good way, relatively quiet, and the Competition seats have good grip, without the ridiculous "compromises" (read "ball holster") of the G8X Comp seats. I think your conclusion is completely correct. If you look at what $40K-50K gets you these days, the F8X is an insane value. I'm obviously biased, but I think these cars have been overlooked, partially because journalists liked the F87 M2 better because of its size, but these actually only weigh slightly more.
@@cptclutch2530 I haven't. It might be something to look into if I ever get "bored" with it. I've heard it adds even more obnoxious pops to the exhaust runoff, which there's already too much of in the higher engine modes on the Comp. Maybe that's configurable, though.
@@chrisstevens1272 You can pick and choose each module. So for example I'm running the GTS diff code along with the F87 CS steering and the F80 CS suspension.
My biggest gripe with my G80 is the gauge cluster. I hate digital gauges, especially ones that are backwards. Bring back the circular analog gauges. I got lucky and had the option to order a 2022 or 2023 and I chose the 2022 because I didn’t want the huge iPad screens. That was a great decision.
The E92 was the perfect M3. Its balance , incredible handling and insane V8 8000rpm changes with the perfect DCT ... it had such theatric SOUL. I replaced the E92 with an F82 .. Sold the M4 after 3 months.. Hated it. Did I mention the throttle down shift blips on the E92 ?
Same here. As the owner of a 2010 e90 m3 6mt, I think it is by far the best m3. The chassis and steering are great, the styling is timeless, the build quality is better than the f80 and the S65 is just fabulous. Can't beat that V8, just brings a smile to your face every time. Isn't that what its all about?
@@rgm33the build quality is better than the F8x?? Your opinion is null and void and you are plain dumb. There are advantages to an E92 over the rest..but the the torque on the s65 is unforgivably low. You need to rev the shit out of the car..and the reliability suffers as a result . The F8x was progress and objectively the sweet spot for M owners.
Also should’ve mentioned that pre-2023 M3s do have two screens (iDrive 7.5) if you want a new M3 without the big LCD screen I’d highly recommend getting a 2022
In this video, Matt said F80 > ITS. But on IG, pretty sure I saw Zack say ITS better for canyons. For me, I love the ITS but the discussion is sorta moot with FWD vs RWD. I’ll pick the M3 every time, if it’s supposed to be a “fun” car, especially considering Hondas vacuum cleaner engines compared to the lovely inline 6. However, for a DD with a hatchback and occasional light backroads? Then I might go ITS.
For $100K, you could get an F10 M5 and a 981 Cayman GTS. That's definitely the better purchase. Bigger sedan and better sports car while both look better than the G80.
Isn’t it almost always the case though that the previous gen of car is super close to performance as the new version, but for much less money? I understand why the G80 M3 Comp is $100k. It has AWD w/switchable RWD-AWD, more power, a better engine, more tech, etc. But the F80 M3’s also sold at $90-100k (I saw many of them for over $100k in showrooms when new). It’s just that its value drops over time. The G80 M3 comp will also drop in value over time. So, really, the best thing is to just buy a used G80 M3 Comp and let the first or second buyer hit the depreciation phase.
Getting some Everyday Driver vibes from this format, which is not a bad thing! I think the G80 makes more sense if you look at it like an M5. These cars are no longer about raw fun. It's close in size to the e39 with a more refined ride and relatively quiet cabin than F80 and monstrous power. It would make a nice family/executive sedan. Unfortunately the G87 M2, sharing the same platform and weight as the G80/82, also had the fun ironed out from the F87 as well. It feels more like a small GT car than a tossable sports coupe.
Good point. I always wanted an M5 but then the M3 got to be the size of the older M5s (and the new M5s got too big and heavy), so I picked up a G80 and I love it.
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Typo in the video title
I am 62 yrs old and bought my f80 new 9yrs ago 110k miles with ohlins suspension. Manual transmission and its staying in my garage
which ohlins setup specifically? i’m not happy with my current bilsteins and look and solutions with external reservoirs, high and low speed dampening etc
@@mcintosh.motorsI have the Road and Track Ohlins on my F80. I'm on the fence about them. I was expecting a more sorted ride from Ohlins. Originally, I purchased the kit with the stock 90/190 N/mm springs and it was just too stiff around town. I then swapped to 80F/160R and it's made a big difference. There are now a few companies who offer a revalved kit with different springs for street use - for example, Turner Motorsport or 3DM Motorsport (if you're in the US).
My manual F80 is also staying with me... Great car 😊
For pete’s sake ! Drive it would ye. 😉
My f87 isn’t going anywhere either, but it won’t stop me from getting a g87 in a few years
How reliable has it been
Love how every shot narrowly avoids showing the G80s grille haha
Even the tumbnail! Good job!
they blurred it out 🤣
9:25
Literally every single time I see one of these grilles in the wild I cringe to myself.
@@baseballer21and0 hahaha omg I missed that! thats hilarious.
People are forgetting the purpose of the grill. More power = more heat = bigger grill. Get a Kia EV if grills aren’t your thing.
They should've tested the F80 competition, which fixes a lot of the gripes people had with the original. Also, the LCI F80 had the nob and touch screen, just like the G80.
Underrated comment right here! This is the answer.
Manual F80/F82 is Competition and Executive package with the carbon fiber roof(no sunroof) is where it's at.
Correct!!
@@alldaydre 100%. I bought a DCT F82 Comp with Executive and the carbon roof and I'd take it ten times out of ten over a G8x car.
Does it fix the numb steering? I've driven a regular F82 and that was my biggest knock on it.
@@danielqiu3779no. Suspension and proper tires also heavily helps the steering feel.
I can't believe we're calling F80's old already 😅
Because they are… came out 10 years ago
@@itubrrr yeah.. . .I get it .. mine is a '06. THAT'S OLD
Had an F80 DCT, for the most part loved it for Dad duty but missed a manual. Ordered a G80 manual, spec'd exactly as I wanted, waited the 5 months for it to built, etc. Drove it home for the first time in January and it felt so similar to my wife's X3 I got a lump in my throat. Buyer's remorse bad. Matt hit it on the head. The F80 feels like a sports car even when going slow, the G80 hauls the mail and no doubt the chassis has much higher limits and is fun at those limits but for most of your daily driving its just too soft. Can't keep of the sites looking for a cherry F80 manual or Blackwing.
I did the same! The manual doesn't do enough to retain the allure of the car.
Well explained..this seems to be a common gripe with the G8x. Heavy steering..numb..too heavy..top end performance a step above..but when do you experience it..its not as nimble.
You saved the new manuals by buying a new one. You’ve done the job
Now to find a Blackwing 👀
Funny you say that because I'm looking for an F80 or G80 for dad duty but cant seem to stop also searching for a CT4V Blackwing. I'm just afraid the 4BW is going to be too small.
Interesting. I have a G80 manual as well and love it. Definitely more compatible to an M5 though, it’s a 4-door saloon not an M2.
Now THIS is the Smoking Tire that I have missed! Pure car speak, pure enthusiast information. I have stuck in as a subscriber despite significant differences and through the lack of "Tuned" type content. If you want views keep making this type of video. We get enough political opinions from the rest of the world and come to places like this to escape the tribalism and enjoy our car tribe. Thank you guys for producing an informative car nerd video after what seems like years of hiatus. Bravo
As an F82 Competition owner I would never change my baby to a G82! No matter how much more horsepower it has, that's not everything!
Drive one, I too, was in the market for an f8x or an m340i until I drove these.
I'm totally with Matt here and love the looks so much more of the older M3. Love the interior, no hideous grill and the overall simpcity of the package. Also, he's spot on when it comes to the dashboard and actual gauges and love the analogue dials. In the real world, you don't need any more power..
Just have a few thousand for maintenance on hand.
My G80 was a manual with the normal seats (Tartufo leather is ONLY available in regular seats in the US). I adored that car, put nearly 75k miles on it between Nov 2021 and Dec 2023. I still think the F80 is prettier, but the G80 is the absolute answer for a new, do it all car for enthusiasts. I spent as much time taking my daughter to school as I did burning through Michelins on backroads in various states. Mine also had the 2 screen setup versus the large single screen of the LCI M cars. The looks never bothered me since you can’t see the front of the car from the drivers seat, but I am having the same amount of fun in my newly acquired E36 vert despite being MUCH slower. Admittedly… seeing my daughter giggle with hands in the wind like she’s on a roller coaster from the back seat may be the reason I hold this car in such high regard.
I’ve owned both of these, and Matt nailed it. The G80 is a bit boring and too heavy. It’s only fun at the limit…which you rarely hit on public roads
Savagegeese made these remarks earlier when he did his long term review of his Type-R. 90% of these cars all offer that feeling. They only make you feel something when you are going 9/10ths or 10/10ths flat out. Around town they are so insulated and riddled with tech and are heavy you don't feel anything. Especially in modern turbo charged cars. The Type-R and Type-S give you SOME of that old school feeling of making the driver part of the experience. And as Matt said here, a F80 M3 will give you more of that because its higher performance.
I think light weight also plays a big role in how “fun” a car feels at low speeds. The CTR/Type S are under 3200 lbs so it’s a big difference in weight. Do you think that makes for a more fun car in the canyons despite being FWD?
I actually picked up a type S after dropping the G80. Not nearly as fast, but I don't care. It's light, responsive, steering and shifter input feel great. It's just fun to drive. And that's what I care about nowadays. I don't chase straight line speed. Couldn't care less about 0-60 times
Cool story bro, needs more dragons.
There’s a stuffed dragon inside the car broooooooo
F80s is easily the best looking M3 sedan. Might even be the best looking M3 period
I disagree the E46 M3 is by far the best looking M3.
I still have a soft spot for the E92 M3. What a beaut
E36 m3 sedan is way better looking
E92, e46, e36, f80, and g80 dead last. In my opinion.
I agree, F80 is the best looking sedan. Followed by the E90. My coworker recently got a G80 M3 Comp. Seeing it everyday certainly helps the design grow on you, but it's still a hideous design regardless of how much you look at it.
Reviewers/journalists always dog on every new M3 and then sing their praises when the successor comes out.
Look at the history-
E90 comes out: too soft, lost the I6, too plain, etc.
F80 comes out: too harsh, unfeeling, sounds bad, etc.
G80 comes out: bloated, not emotional/special, ugly, etc.
The truth is every M3 has been excellent, and the newer model is always substantially better than the old. They did not effectively communicate how much better/faster the G80 is than the F80, it is SHOCKING. And the value play doesn't make sense because you can get a used G80 for mid 60's all day.
Huh. I could not disagree more. I've had the F80 M3, an F82 M2, an M2 Competition, and now have that same drivetrain in an X3M Comp.. and I really do not like the new ones. There is something squirrely about the xDrive system that does unpredictable things when you're thrashing it. The old cars behave as you expect them to, you can rip the car as hard as you want and the rear behaves predictably. Now I don't think that's the case. Sure, for track driving I have no dobut the G80 is faster. But in terms of just sliding the car around and getting in trouble, I think the F80 was the end of the era.
why did you give up on real driving and brought an suv?, and, ffs, if I hear "space" one more time.. 😄
@@eugenuxyou speak English 😂
I’ve owned my E90 M3 for over 7 years. I know I’m in the minority of M3 owners but I like the F80 and G80 quite a lot. The G80’s are insanely fast. I like that the F80 still has a double clutch available. I’m the weirdo that wouldn’t take a manual in either option. The manual transmissions are kinda crap. The electric power steering isn’t as good but hydraulic supremacy in my E90 will be hard to beat. Good video friends.
Agreed. I'd daily driven manuals for 10 years (E46 M3, WRX STi, B8.5 S4 all manual), but I bought an F82 M4 Competition with the DCT and I've never looked back or regretted it. I really, really like the DCT.
The F80 manual M3 was the worst manual driving experience I've ever had. I've never driven a modern manual transmission BMW where the manual inputs were well resolved with one another and felt natural. Ultimate marketing machine.
Thank you, thank you, THANK You for not overlaying music while you are talking! Love the old vs. new formats! Keep up the awesome work!
Love my 2016 F82 Competition and I plan on driving it for another 5-10 years. No mechanical issues at all and still looks great. 60K miles and not a single rattle. Big smile every time my garage door goes up. 👍😉🏁
Agree with Matt about the analog gauges. I’ll go analog with as many buttons as possible for as long as possible 😉
F82 is pretty much perfect, especially in manual but I don't like how they add complexity like the valvtronic variable valve lift. Wonder how long that whole mechanism lasts?
I owned a manual f80 for 2 years, a dct f87 m2 competition for 1 year and now i have a g80 m3 xdrive since 5 months. The f80 for a daily with the manual transmision was not so fun, but as a fun car it was good, never loved the manual transmision of the f80. The m2 comp felt special in every case and the dct gearbox was great. The G80 as a daily is not so special(maybe the coupe form gives some specialness for the m4), you need to floor it always otherwise it is like a normal 3 series with the sport seats, but i never felt like i didn’t want to daily the car unlike the f80 and f87. If i start to get bored, i go on winding roads and i realize how great the g80 is. For me the G80 is much better.😊
As the owner of an f80 that sees 80% track time, I love this content. Thanks guys. Would love to hear a little CT4-V BW comparo thrown in as a middle ground price point.
As someone who chose 4BW over F80, me to 😊
@@fantastic9864 did you own an f80 previously? Thinking about the 4BW as a daily until the aftermarket suspension and braking market catches up. The braking system is my biggest area of concern for track work.
@@allthepizzainmybelly1302 No, but I was cross shopping. I was able to get the 4BW 6 months old CPO for just a few thousand more than a manual F80 so it made it an easy choice for me. I have my first track day with it next month so I'll see how the brakes hold up. I'm not too worried about it since I believe the performance academy uses stock brakes and their cars are hammered on.
@@allthepizzainmybelly1302 I've tracked mine three days last year. Brakes hold up good but will fade towards the end of a brake heavy track at the end of a 20m session. That's on the OEM pads. A set of DTC60s will fix that up easily though. Same calipers and rotors off of a SS1LE. Depending how hard you push, the off the shelf experience holds up great if you ask me.
@@joszer interesting. Were you able to feel the fade coming with the brake by wire?
After driving many many G80’s and owning over 12 m3’s now….I 110% agree with Matt on the G80. I dislike the screens, I dislike the looks (especially compared to an f80) and you really can’t beat the f80 for bang for your buck. They’re pretty reliable (daily drive mine and out nearly 5k miles per month on it) in my experience I’ve had 0 issues with it. It you keep them stock and keep up on maintenance it’s a very very solid car. I’m not sure why the other guy is railing the F80 so hard, if you want amazing steering feel buy an Alfa Romeo Giulia Quad…but they do not even come close on reliability. I have a quad as well and it has been sitting at the dealer for an electrical issue since December. If you want an amazing car that won’t cost you 6 figures buy an f80 or if you want better sound an e9x m3. Imo you can’t beat an f80 for a daily/weekend/all around car it’s perfect
I owned the old one and now the new one. The new one drives better , just put it in MDM and you drift at every corner in a controllable manner. F80 was a hard horse to tame. Almost
crashed it twice. I somewhat disagree about the new one not showing its capability at low speeds, because of linear torque response and better chassis control it is much easier to access the performance in the new one than the old one without worry of losing control. It was difficult to do little drifts here and there in the old one, as you mention it is twitchy, but the new one is much more controllable giving you the option to have a little fun going to the grocery store. the old one was just too rough and noisy for every day driving. they added much more sound insulation in the G80, it is a civilized car now.... BMW M is about performance and luxury. the old one hardly had luxury manners.
One thing I definitely miss and not mentioned here is the F80 DCT vs G80 ZF wet clutch. The old one was much faster and crisper to shift I believe under 10 msec shift compared to 150 msec shift... don't like the ZF as much even in the most aggressive setting.
BTW you can’t get a great condition F80 for that cheap unless it’s beat up. A great example still runs 50-60K. with running costs (out of warranty) the difference between the two is less than what you think....
Everything else you mention is absolutely correct. Oddly I think the new one looks great and so different that will become a classic just for being controversial 20 years from now. The last non hybrid non electric M3. given the higher price they are more rare and exclusive than the old one.
Funny thing is that people said the same thing about the E9x vs F8x and how not engaging the F8x is but how fast it is compared to the E9x
well, I went with the G80 RWD competition without the carbon buckets. also drops the msrp from $100k+ for the xdrive to around $86k. my best friend had a 2014 F82 and than 2018 F80 comp, so I know how those drives. Also it is pretty tough to find a F80 with lower mileage that is under $50k and dealing with the reliability issue with the older car.
FYI, the later year F80 has a touchscreen that's just coded out for some reason. You can turn it on with some simple codes, and it works great except that the screen is a little far away. I'm guessing that's why it's not on by default. If we're going to highlight forged internals then I think some basic coding can be in the convo. Overall, the f80 has been great for some light mods, not sure how the 100k G89 holds in that respect.
yeah but doing that wouldnt allow them to push tiny little bias narratives like that "the f80 doesnt have a touchscreen" when it very much does lol.
As a F82 Owner myself, the price difference does not justify the pros of the G8X, until they depreciate a bit, then maybe ill consider. LOVE MY F82, F8X GANG HERE!
Manual is always the way to go!
Yall are gold and i appreciate how it isnt just bashing one of the cars. Keep up the good work
Appreciate that
I had an F80 6MT with 18inch OEM wheels I thought the car was great ZERO complaints. I now have a 2022 G80 6MT. The biggest difference to me is the G80 is more luxurious and that's what i wanted. For me having the 6MT makes it fun just driving at normal speeds. You don't need to drive 10/10ths to enjoy the car. I'm keeping my G80 right now it's 100% stock.
I’m definitely bias but I absolutely love the f series cars. The styling is excellent both exterior and interior, plus I love physical buttons. A touchscreen equals a dirty screen.
Gotta say... At my last HPDE, there were more Camaro SS 1LE's and F80 M3's than anything else. They hit a sweet spot
@8:50 aren’t all M3’s “knob operated”?….
Nice
savage
if he is driving its KNOB operated. 9:02 you think he can get any closer to the wheel?
Ahahaha!
😂
Awesome video guys, I'm a little late to watching it, but this is one of the best Ive seen on the channel in a while!
F80 for me
Just got my g80 m3. In black I actually love the way it looks but the technology is brutal . I daily drive a 5th gen 4 runner so I hate not having buttons or an analog dash in the beamer. I guess I will get use to it. Still in break in period. Time will tell. Great video !
I noticed there was a lot of saying that F8x chassis was boring. There is one major reason for this and that is that you have traction control still on MDM mode doesn’t count. MDM mode is super invasive and as you get on throttle with these cars, it’s probably blinking all the way up to 60 miles an hour. Car is an absolute animal will not disappoint before putting it into a ditch if you’re not a good driver. On the FX8 platform, the DCT is where it’s at.
As usual, I agree with a lot of the points in this video. Coming out of my 6MT E46 M3 coupe, I wanted a newer M car as a semi-daily driver and weekend backroads cruiser, but didn't know if I wanted to go F chassis or G chassis (I drove a 6MT E92 M3, loved the S65 but the ownership experience isn't for me). Background - I work for a high line car dealer and get to drive just about everything from relatively affordable sports cars, to 7-figure hypercars, and everything in between.
Ended up buying a CPO '20 F82 M4 Competition with the DCT. I've driven a G80 Competition Xdrive (auto) and a G82 Competition (RWD, auto) and I like just about everything about my F82 more, minus the extra power from the S58. I like the DCT over the 8 speed auto, it seems to just have more personality. The biggest swing to me was the exterior styling and the interior on the F8x cars. The 2018+ F8x cars feel right in that sweet spot of timelessness - more modern feeling thanks to the LCI in 2018, but still physical buttons for important things and physical analog gauges, with toys like HUD and wireless Apple CarPlay. Also, in 2019 and 2020, the MMI screen in the M4 is a touch screen. The Competitions also got quite a bit of suspension and differential revision to help with a lot of the complaints on the earlier F8x cars.
I can't think of another sports car I'd like to own, at least for the way I use my car, short of $100k. It really is a great platform.
LMAO at all the creative ways to hide the grill!!! Too funny
Hell yeah F80 all the way, find a good one & spend a little money getting it sorted, you'll be fine, Rj in Oz
I’ve never driven either, but just remember the f80 getting absolutely savaged in the car magazines when it was released.
I’m curious how the f80 vs a new civic type r as a daily driver
Right! I was in the camp of people that hated F80s because of all the bad reviews about them but hadnt driven one. Then finally last year I drove one and bought it the next day. People hated that it was bigger like an M5... To which I say, people have always loved M5s!
I’m a little late to this video and as an F80 6spd owner from new in 2015 I’m a little biased. I can agree the rear suspension is a little harsh, mine doesn’t have car play and it was just before LTE (RIP 3G). But, the fact that you can turn off traction completely and select your own gear with proper gear ratios (for those that understand gearing in most cars are set for emissions and noise) and have all the torque when the differential locks up. That’s a thing of beauty. I think the issue most people have is it requires finesse and dare I say skill. People have become too reliant on technology and torque management. They just want to floor it everywhere like we did in a ‘94 civic and still have traction. People aren’t really looking for a drivers car… they want a car that flatters their lack of driving skill. The F80 rewards those who know. Throw on some camber plates and an adjustable toe link and it’s perfect. Oh, does great with a baby seat in the back. 93k miles later and me and my 9 yr old still love to go “weee”!
So I own an e92 M3 dct comp. Bought a comp f80 manual. Sold the f80 because I kept comparing it to my e92 and how dull it felt. When I sold it I realized that you cannot compare it to the e9x. From the f80 to the g80 they mastered the everyday sport car luxury sedan which the e9x is a lot of car to drive on the daily.
I ended up buying a manual g80. In many ways it feels like the f80. The tech feels relatively the same because I bought a really low optioned g80. The g80 has a nice linear build of boost versus the f80. The g80 sounds a bit better than the f80. But, I will have to say the f80 was the Pinnacle of exterior design. The g80 is beautiful to me despite the grill, but the f80 was undeniably beautiful to everyone.
Now, I got a 2022 manual g80 so it does not have that the humongous screen. Aside from black wheels, sport line lights, interior carbon, and bucket seats it does not have any other options adding to tech so i think that may be the way to go when optioning a g80. I'll have to say my only gripes with the g80 is the interior is nice but very creaky over bumps. I feel like the e90x was more put together. I also do not like how the g80 idles and sounds as it idles. It's not a very smoothe motor when at a standstill.
But with that being said my heart still thinks the e9x models are the best. The high redline and V8 sound cannot be replicated aside from comparing it to vehicles that are in another league such as a gt3 or a zo6 that have that high revving exotic sound and feel. Due to the fact that I can't purchase either of those, in choose to keep the e9x. I also feel that the g80 may be the final manual/ all motor non electric m car so it will be worth keeping as well as an ode to the Pinnacle of a generation
I love how you censored the front of the car.
Good video. S55 has fully forged internals. In the start of the g80 test drive, you spoke about the forged internals as if the f80 didn't. Just my 2cents. Keep up the great videos!
A comparison I’d love to see as their prices seem to be getting very close together or at least will be in a couple years is a used F80 vs used CT4V Blackwing.
I seriously don't agree how you guys say so bluntly that you should not option the carbon seats. Everyone I know that has tried those seats myself included has agreed that they're way superior to the standard seats. I feel they are extremely comfortable the only problem being getting in and out. The standard seats offer no support at all and at the end of the day this isn't an M5, you're gonna want to track it or have fun in the canyons which the standard seats do an awful job of keeping you in place. You should emphasize that seat comfort at the end of the day is also subjective, not just straight up tell people not to get the carbon buckets because someone might actually listen to you and end up disappointed. Agree on everything else said in the review though and thank you for the free content.
I have 2020 M4 Comp.. DCT. My car has the LCI tweaks.. the S55 has forged internals .so I’m not sure what you guys were talking about. I don’t know what year F8 M3 guys are driving, but Bmw revised the suspension for the LCI competition and power delivery is amazing. My car is the heritage edition package and I have the Mperformance suspension. G80 is a slapping of Jenkee in between car that Bmw built to hold them over for the electric stuff.
S55 has forged aluminum alloy pistons and piston rings but cast conrods. Zach mentioned the B58 but that has a forged crank and conrods too, but cast pistons. Either way, S58 is top dog but unless you're aiming for crazy amounts of HP, all three motors are going to be capable decent tuning on the stock block/internals.
This was a fun video to watch!! Both generations are excellent IMO.
I do wish I could have loaned you my 18 as it’s a near stock Competition model 6M with 1/5 the miles of the red one. Turner shifter bushings and upgraded trans mount also solve the meh shifter feel so overall the car is excellent to drive.
Digging the thumbnail!
I had an e46, two F80s (6MT and DCT) then a G80 M3CS. I’m over the grille, but hated it at first. I loved my F80 manual with cloth seats. CS was a different beast tho.
I've got the F80. Absolutely love it! 🔥🔥🔥
I have a manual e36m sedan and manual e46m. I love both but I had an Evo 8 prior and really miss the boost. There’s something about an f80 with the 666m wheels that makes me want to get rid of both
Zach starting the comparison by quoting stats reminds me of people comparing tech by quoting memory and processor speeds. For me, cars are about the experience and emotions that they evoke. Those aren't as quantifiable, but to me they are more important. I get it that everyone's different and maybe Zach and people like him get their enjoyment from stats and numbers - to each their own.
Love this style of head to head with you guys! It seems like head to heads aren’t very common anymore but they’re so interesting.
Props for all the effort covering the beaver teeph LOL... Gotta say, I do agree with all Matt's points on the F80, and that's why it would be my choice if I had that cash (specially for the insurance and maintenance)... The F80 seems to be a hell of a car, pretty, with gauges and most modern technology that I would actually want, no ball holders, and manual!
Appreciate the vid after just buying and M3 F80 at long last. I absolutely love it btw!
love the g80 grill looks supper agresive and cool
Great work guys… awesome review and comparo on both.
He mentions forged internals and b58s. He’s comparing to a S55 which has forged internals and a closed deck.
The b58 has forged rods and a forged crank, which is one of the reasons it can make so much power reliably. What forged pieces is the b58 missing compared to the s58?
Hi performance Mahle forged pistons from the factory, lightweight forged crank, valves and springs etc. I have both engines. B58 is a nice "truck" engine, S58 is a race engine. They are very different in characteristics, internal parts and design. Cooling system, lubrication system, forced induction system, etc. are very different.
@@genderlessyoutubefanpersona race engine has a proper dry sump homey
@kcw9313 Not sure if you are trying to defend your b58 or dissing on S58. Again, just for you, homey S58 is a motorsport engine. Having a dry sump is not needed or required for the engine to be classified as a race engine. In S58, there are many elegant engineering solutions that will give you many worry free miles on the street and race track.
Having just gone from a comp DCT F80 to a manual G80. I agree with Matt. There's a certain..
rowdiness or fuzziness that's missing.
The relatively uncouth nature of the F80 is definitely missed. How it is so peaky. How the DCT was lurchy. The F80 was special even at low speeds. The G80 you'd have to push it really hard to enjoy it.
The things we lose in the name of progress.
It's like missing '80s and '90s turbo lag. It's fun even if not super fast
F82 M4cs owner here. Tried to convince myself a few times to get a G80/2 but keep failing. Might just wait for the G82 M4cs. Side note - slap a BM3 on the F80 for $600 and dial steering and power delivery at your will.
Great video lads. I had a F and now a G touring. So much faster and more comfortable, (no buckets) as a daily, plus wagon!
Through a damp rainforest it’s much quicker than even my GT3. Climate controls are fine once you’re accustom to the screen.
Very jealous of your Touring! The ultimate dad car.
-American
Not many about but perfect daily !
Depending on what MY the F80 is, the infotainment screen might be touch screen
Driven both of these in anger…. Owned the ‘17 LCI F80 Comp with DCT, and did a 2-day M-School with a lot of seat time in the RWD G80 Comp. Also, I have owned the ‘20 F97 X3M Comp, and I currently own the ‘21 LCI F90 Comp (which is the best choice for my use case - 18k miles a year with a lot of rainy highway driving).
BMW manuals are average, the DCT in the F80 was special. It felt special going slow too. The new 8 spd ZF is smoother and shifts very quickly, but lacks the (I don’t know) “thump” of the redline shifts of the DCT.
If you want the fastest track car, get G80 xDrive Comp. If you want a really fast, but better steering track car, the G80 Comp. If you want the newest with a manual, G80.
If you want a better looking and still really fast car, I recommend the F80 Comp with the DCT. Get the manual if you don’t drive in a lot of traffic and that’s really your thing, but know it’s not as good.
If you live somewhere where it rains a lot (like me) or sees ice/snow, the high level of low RPM Torque causes the F80’s to get sketchy pretty easily. The LCI is better than the original, but it can still put a skid in your pants. On a dry track with grip (I did several laps at COTA) the DCT & M-DCT settings will keep things manageable. If it’s slick, however, it’s a serious handful. Fun, but not fast.
So, why now an F90 M5? It’s great looking, only a little bigger and heavier, it’s fast as hell, & handles better than it should all while being more comfortable! Get a CPO version of this before they’re impossible to find. Right now they price better than a new G80 for the most part.
Cammisa commented on this: It’s crazy that zoomers on TikTok already think that the F80 is really old. Makes me feel like the old one.
He also said the new Tesla Model 3 Performance made an M3 redundant. Which I kind of get because if you're just going to drive a heavy car around that is mostly good at going really fast, why bother with a bad sounding gas engine and gears when you can just fly silent with electric? Since all the feel an fizz has been ironed out of the car anyway.
@@TheBucketOfTruth neaah; he is becoming a best buddy with all electric cars manufacturers because #early access bring tons of views which, in turn, brings tons of money. Also the controversy sets a high engagement with the audience and that's also beneficial; it is literally "how to be successful on youtube in 7 easy steps" type of plan.(and, unfortunately, it works)
@@eugenux I actually believe him though because once driver engagement goes out the window as the advantage for the gas car (or noise), then why not just have electric? Cause the driver engagement on the M3 is suffering and they don't sound very good either. Remember we're not talking about an old Porsche here vs a new electric car, we're talking about a performance daily driver sedan. And the Tesla is also 500 hp, also 4000 lbs. And it's half the price of the M3. And I literally hate Elon Musk and anything he's associated with by extension, so I'm the last person to want to admit this sort of thing.
Who
F82 M4 comp here. Buddy got G82. Still love my F82.
The one here isn’t comp package on the f80 which makes a big difference in suspension and other areas. F body all the way. The last of the greats
Funnily enough a CTR is what I’m considering at the moment - truth is it’ll come with a warranty and likely be reliable and 300bhp is enough for the road… Might have to drive an F80 to make sure though…
Have been looking forward to this one, was a great watch
This is about the realest and most honest G80 vs F80 review I've seen by a mile... i agree w all points on the G80... its a disconnected car that needs to be pushed too hard... the f80 is not perfect but its wildly fun and still capable.
I cannot believe they didn’t compare cars with similar transmissions. The F80’s DCT is so much better the the G series tranny. That’s what makes the difference in the cars in my opinion.
@@JasonTallmanI was thinking that too in a way, that should be a whole other episode ha
I could never own a car that I didnt want to turn around to look at after I parked it and thats the g80. There is a magic to a light weight car that cannot be overcome with tech and fancy dampers. F80 all the way
This style of video is so fun to watch. Seems like this is also a model of how to keep making great videos for enthusiasts despite less new affordable enthusiast cars coming out
I used to watch TheSmokingTire every day years ago. Why is he only at 1.08M subs? Should be at 3M+ subs. This guy is a legend in the car review space.
9:25 THE BLURRED FACE OF THE G80 LMFAO
I do think the F80 is a compelling used buy but I think whenever I'm within firing range of an M3, I'd wait for the G80.
It has the E36 badboy smut factor, it's completely unloved rn. It's the M3 996. I like that about it. It's maximum M3 obnoxiousness
But... the F80 is getting down there. The nuances are definitely interesting! Definitely think though that the OG M2 is the 2010s BMW I'd consider buying
LMAO I get it now
the E36 m3 is on the upswing.
bad ones are still cheaper, but there's newfound reverence that people might want to watch out for.
@@diltd3989 Oh yeah definitely, it always swings around. 996s, 964s and E36s were all hated at one point, they're revered now, 996s are on the upswing for instance.
I should know, I own an E36 sedan and had to see the bad press it got for so long 😁
F87 M2 Comp. Easily the best modern BMW. CS is better obviously but they are expensive. M2 Comp gives you everything the F80 M3 does but with better feel.
Wtf is smut factor
At the end of the day people are almost exclusively buying the g80 xdrive to mod for straight line speed. Downpipes, tune, and some ethanol and you have a 700+whp car that does 60-130 in the 4s and 5s on the stock motor/trans. Also running sub 9.5s (plaid times) in the 1/4.
Which is why BMW has lost its way. Uppity Dodge crowd is their demographic now, not actual drivers.
This is the video I was looking for 😎🙌🏼
5:05 huh so I had to check on this. Yes the S58 has fully forged internals, while the S55 has forged aluminum alloy pistons and piston rings BUT cast conrods. B58 has arguably a larger aftermarket due to the larger demograph, and has a forged crank and conrods but cast piston.
The S55 doesn’t have forged pistons. Piston rings are never forged, so neither has them.
S58 has forged pistons.
B58 same as S55 have casted pistons.
9:26 absolute comedic genius right here.
Its crazy you guys just came out with this video! Im looking at both of these right now! Moving on from my Focus RS. I think there good options to move up
I absolutely adore the Focus RS. Great cars, coming from an F80 M3 owner, I know you'd love one!
@Patrick_Hession98 I'm really wanting another manual. I wish there was a manual in the competition for both models! That might be the deciding factor on which one I get
@@Yung_Jones88 Absolutely. I've got a competition DCT, but the Manual comps drive perfect.
Don't know if you have upgraded yet but came from a 18 RS to a F82 ..... I fucking love my M4 I will never sell it haha
Great presentation from both presenters, though Matt wins the argument. The DSG equipped F80 would’ve added further weight for that specialness and occasion.
I’ve just bought a 2017 M4C in the UK, with 43k miles, for £27500 (about 35k dollars at our current dismal exchange rate). I extended the warranty with BMW for £850 so no tuning, but as Matt says, I don’t need to go any faster. It’s quick enough. An F80 would’ve cost £7-10k more to a similar spec and age making the F82 an absolute performance bargain.
I could have afforded the G82 series, but I’d rather spend the difference on fuel, maintenance and road trips. With a car that’s ‘too new’, I feel more inhibited actually driving it and enjoying it. The older car got my vote. In a few years, I’ll likely buy the newer car, but I’ll avoid those seats with the nutcrackers 😂
I own an F82 M4 Competition, and have been waiting a long time for you guys to take a look at the F8X again, particularly as it stacks up against G8X. I think you have a couple videos in an older format of heavily modified ones, and the GTS, which didn't help me much when I was shopping a couple years ago. In fact, it seems like none of the UA-camrs I follow like Doug DeMuro or Throttle House have anything on these, so thanks for doing this.
I agree with your criticisms of the F8X. The suspension is something I continue to consider upgrading. The Comp is even firmer than what you guys drove. Weirdly, I've started trying my commute with the adapters in Sport (medium) because Comfort (soft) oscilates for quite awhile on our crappy LA streets. I have found that upgrading to Pilot Sport 4S from the OE Pilot Super Sport helped noticeably with compliance and noise, though.
That said, I'm really happy with just about everything else with my car. The power is more than sufficient. I was on Big Tujunga last week, and it's hard to imagine another 100+ horsepower doing anything to improve the experience. I already run out of road in most places before the S55 really stretches its legs. The front-end grip is pretty immense, especially with the new tires. The interior is simple in a good way, relatively quiet, and the Competition seats have good grip, without the ridiculous "compromises" (read "ball holster") of the G8X Comp seats.
I think your conclusion is completely correct. If you look at what $40K-50K gets you these days, the F8X is an insane value. I'm obviously biased, but I think these cars have been overlooked, partially because journalists liked the F87 M2 better because of its size, but these actually only weigh slightly more.
You should try flashing your car with the CS/GTS software. Really transforms it.
@@cptclutch2530 I haven't. It might be something to look into if I ever get "bored" with it. I've heard it adds even more obnoxious pops to the exhaust runoff, which there's already too much of in the higher engine modes on the Comp. Maybe that's configurable, though.
@@chrisstevens1272 You can pick and choose each module. So for example I'm running the GTS diff code along with the F87 CS steering and the F80 CS suspension.
F80 > G80 PIG NOSE - Wish you tested a F80 with CompPack and DCT, that car is much more raw than Auto G80.
My biggest gripe with my G80 is the gauge cluster. I hate digital gauges, especially ones that are backwards. Bring back the circular analog gauges. I got lucky and had the option to order a 2022 or 2023 and I chose the 2022 because I didn’t want the huge iPad screens. That was a great decision.
The E92 was the perfect M3. Its balance , incredible handling and insane V8 8000rpm changes with the perfect DCT ... it had such theatric SOUL. I replaced the E92 with an F82 .. Sold the M4 after 3 months.. Hated it. Did I mention the throttle down shift blips on the E92 ?
I agree. I have an '09, E92, M3, DCT. No cats, straight piped to an M performance muffler. Sounds insane!
Same here. As the owner of a 2010 e90 m3 6mt, I think it is by far the best m3. The chassis and steering are great, the styling is timeless, the build quality is better than the f80 and the S65 is just fabulous. Can't beat that V8, just brings a smile to your face every time. Isn't that what its all about?
@@rgm33the build quality is better than the F8x?? Your opinion is null and void and you are plain dumb. There are advantages to an E92 over the rest..but the the torque on the s65 is unforgivably low. You need to rev the shit out of the car..and the reliability suffers as a result . The F8x was progress and objectively the sweet spot for M owners.
The answer is used manual G82 M4, you can pick them up for around $45,000 already.
....with 50k+ miles, and cos nobody wants the shitty slow manual.
The cheapest in the nation is $61k with 49k miles. You aren’t touching a G82 for 45k
love my F80. Nice job guys
Also should’ve mentioned that pre-2023 M3s do have two screens (iDrive 7.5) if you want a new M3 without the big LCD screen I’d highly recommend getting a 2022
cool video concept, keep em coming gents
Absolutely love my G82 buckets! I've driven 30k miles in 1 year in them.
F80 any day on looks alone but e90/e92 will forever be my dream m3 g80 big miss
where does the ct4v blackwing fall under all of this?
Great video, keep it coming.
So happy I went with F80 Comp!
I can’t be the only one cross-shopping both M3s and the Integra Type S. Price aside which is the more fun car for the canyons?
In this video, Matt said F80 > ITS. But on IG, pretty sure I saw Zack say ITS better for canyons. For me, I love the ITS but the discussion is sorta moot with FWD vs RWD. I’ll pick the M3 every time, if it’s supposed to be a “fun” car, especially considering Hondas vacuum cleaner engines compared to the lovely inline 6. However, for a DD with a hatchback and occasional light backroads? Then I might go ITS.
Really liked this format. Can we get an F30 340i vs G20 M340i next? Or anything Boss 302 related
For $100K, you could get an F10 M5 and a 981 Cayman GTS. That's definitely the better purchase. Bigger sedan and better sports car while both look better than the G80.
G80 all day. Truly love the design snd the grill.
The effort to avoid showing the grille 😂 good job
Trying to emulate the EverydayDriver format now?
Makes sense to mix it up. Every day driver uses smoking tires format for new car reviews and has started using The Topher style head cam videos.
Isn’t it almost always the case though that the previous gen of car is super close to performance as the new version, but for much less money? I understand why the G80 M3 Comp is $100k. It has AWD w/switchable RWD-AWD, more power, a better engine, more tech, etc. But the F80 M3’s also sold at $90-100k (I saw many of them for over $100k in showrooms when new). It’s just that its value drops over time. The G80 M3 comp will also drop in value over time.
So, really, the best thing is to just buy a used G80 M3 Comp and let the first or second buyer hit the depreciation phase.
Getting some Everyday Driver vibes from this format, which is not a bad thing! I think the G80 makes more sense if you look at it like an M5. These cars are no longer about raw fun. It's close in size to the e39 with a more refined ride and relatively quiet cabin than F80 and monstrous power. It would make a nice family/executive sedan. Unfortunately the G87 M2, sharing the same platform and weight as the G80/82, also had the fun ironed out from the F87 as well. It feels more like a small GT car than a tossable sports coupe.
Good point. I always wanted an M5 but then the M3 got to be the size of the older M5s (and the new M5s got too big and heavy), so I picked up a G80 and I love it.
F80 for sure
M3 CS
But e46 manual is my favorite of them all
DCT is garbage.