This should not be try it at home without supervision if you don’t know what you’re doing you can have a serious accident and burn yourself. Refrigerant is no joke and nothing to play around with. Sorry that’s the truth this is one thing you don’t want to make a mistake with.
I need to add Freon. I have an inside unit in my basement. I finally was able to use my unit for first time and after three days it was frozen. It got colder for a couple days so I let it melt. My landlord said it might need Freon. There’s duct tape around unit that’s falling off. So I’m going to change filter and reapply duct tape around. See if that works first. If not, then I’ll have to call someone. What’s an estimate for Freon ? I’m a woman and no nothing about units. Only basics
As a tech that learned everything either out in the field or on UA-cam when I started, I distinctly remember when things finally snapped and became clear in my head when it came to refrigerant - from then on I always referred to the charge(especially the suction side) in terms of TEMPERATURE - not PRESSURE when communicating an issue to someone else or while figuring out the issue. Trained a few other guys at the first company I worked for and would always try to get them to think in the same terms (Blue gauge TEMP, Red gauge Pressure) - it makes understanding Superheat and Subcooling (and what it means in the system that much easier).
Great info! Good to hear others doing the same! I have an experienced refrigeration guy who only wants to talk pressures when he's talking to others. everyone's different but can't bag on him since he's such a good tech. Thanks again
I don't do residential HVAC but in managing my own automotive HVAC I learned one thing. Well, a few but this one too. If I think the system may be under charged ALWAYS leak check the service ports BEFORE touching them with ANY tools or equipment. You will not find a leaking schrader valve with gauges attached and you will not have a definitive diagnosis if the reseating that takes place "fixes" the problem. Thank you for doing what you do here on UA-cam.
This is a good first step. When I get a no ac call it's the first thing I check. Check for power, check for leaks at valves. I'd say 20% of the time in the last 4 months I has been one of the valves.
@@travischaddock4826 And how often did the valve leak because some numbnut didn't tighten or even bother to reinstall the caps and it got dirt and corrosion in the port? It never leaked before untill YOU went and stuck your tool in it and let all the crap into the seal. Some people automatically change out the valves whenever they are going to enter or have entered a system.
Going into my second summer and really am understanding these systems is becoming increasingly easier to understand. Really appreciate the video for folks like me.
i literally didnt understand a single part of this video, but something about listening to a guy who knows what he's talking about with visuals is so awesome
Greg, you have killed it as a small business owner. Most of you guys put out alot of great stuff on HVAC technical stuff. That's awesome. I would LOVE to hear more about the actual building of the business and growing it. Thats very inspiring!!! Keep doing great things brother! Chance from Myrtle Beach SC
I took out all the freons from my unit, then I added propane. System is way colder I would say. Thanks for showing me how to do this and what tools to buy on craigslist
I've been wondering about this myself of late. Besides this video, are there any other good resources to help with this? Speaking hypothetically, of course. I'm just interested in the physics and mechanics of it all, and wouldn't think of attempting this on my on own home system.
You did a good job explaining why and how to properly charge a system by temperatures instead of gauges, and really sounded like you know what you are talking about and seems like you went to trade school or learned off a educated teacher (instructor).
I appreciate that. I actually learned all this in the field, as I started this trade from scratch as a helper and worked my way up. Thanks for the comment. I really appreciate it
Thanks for making this video - best one I've seen on how to properly add refrigerant to a system. Helped me to top off my boat's A/C unit. Best regards from Key West, Capt. Blackheart Charlie
for sure. hard to keep my videos short enough though. plus I already did a video on "how to handle a refrigerant leak". Let me know what you think of it!
Thanks for the video! One question... Wouldn't you want to find out where the leak is? 5 lbs. is a substantial leak, I would think you would be back there soon.
for sure. hard to keep my videos short enough though. plus I already did a video on "how to handle a refrigerant leak". Let me know what you think of it!
I am glad that you mentioned to add liquid refrigerant a little at a time, because here's what nobody mentioned is: when you add to much liquid Freon at one time, the chances are , that it will carry some of the compressor oil with it it and it will take a while to equalize again.
great information about charging, before charge i would try find leak first, open evap coil panel, look in drain pan for any trace of oil, most of the time thats where it leaks, if its is leaking, most coils have 10 year warranty, get it done when its under warranty.
Keep up the awesomeness every thing said in this video is how it should be taught at the schools and in field training good job guys all around 10 stars
Hi, boss, why not use digital gauge which can give you either superheat or subcool right away, easier & faster. (One more thing, I think R-410A is a blended refrigerant, it can only be added as liquid in suction side, you'd better mention it to use a nuzzle or throttling method.)
Not needed, his gauge works...all he has to do is add 10 to the cold side and if it matches the hot he is done. I can deduct that equation faster than clamping on the sub cool wire.
Thanks very informative but one question @start if you are talking about td or approach temperature it shouldn't be return air temp ‐32 or 35 = coil temp
Great video Fox !!! How would you charge up a system that does not let the compressor come on because of the Low Pressure Switch preventing the contactor to close ? ( would you use vapor first as to not to hit the compressor and fill it just enough for the compressor to come on or would you fill with liquid right away ??? ) Thank you so much for taking your time and trying to answer my question !!!
what did you end up doing? I ask since thought vapor shouldn't be separated out. I have the same situation happening currently since I can't get my Dave Lennox XC21 edition compressor to turn on even though it is calling since the low pressure switch is preventing it.
@@humphreydchen sorry to hear man! And also sorry that I don't have a solution for you - I just left the whole thing for now while suffering Miami temperatures every day
@@humphreydchen after calling 4 AC guys in the past 11 months I now found one (through a friend) that did not try to extort thousands of dollars and actually fixed my AC ... I can not tell you how I feel ( my 4.5T TRANE was basically empty needed 11lb of 410A) and everything I diagnosed as in perfect working order - did not check out/work at all when he checked it - so he checked for leaks with nitrogen,filled the system,rigged the control board inside the air handler, fitted a new contactor and it works now ) so don't give up : good things come to those who wait, even in 108ºF ( pun fully intended )
& if the liquid line temperature (make sure the sun or your hand, or other heat source is not warming the area where your temp probe is mounted) is cooler than the outside ambient temp, then suspect a restriction up stream for that measured spot of the liquid line....i.e. a liquid line filter drier. Take a Delta-T across a liquid line filter drier, if it happens to be located up stream from the measured spot of the liquid line. If there is a temp drop of (I think) more than 3 degrees, I have been told that the liquid line filter drier is the source of the restriction, & would need to be replaced with a new one.
Very informative. I have a somewhat different situation. A friend bought an abandoned building, and will soon tear it down and build a new one. I can take whatever I want before the demolition, such as the AC and furnace components. I believe the AC has not been turned on for over five years. Is my first step to check the high and low side pressures at the compressor? If there is decent pressure at the compressor, would it make sense to try to get the AC running in the building? Or would it be better to disassemble everything and check the components individually, prior to reassembly at the garage I'm building? If there is pressure in the system, is there an easy way to capture the freon and reuse it at my new location?
Seems like some schools say add liquid, some vapor. I have seen both work and understand the phase change is the magic. What is your thinking in liquid over vapor?
add as a liquid 400 series refrigerants like 410A are a blend, when its a gas some of it separates and you may add more of a certain part of it, scroll compressors can take a small little bit of liquid
This is a course with perfect airflow that’s not a high static duct work situation. This is also with a perfectly clean filter and a perfectly clean coils and the appropriate size line set. Not to mention perfectly good capacitor as well as contactor outside can also affect the refrigerator. All these need to be done before you start adding refrigerant unless you know that system and are you just checked it all.
The further the distance between both units dictates the amount of time for a full cycle. A system that is charged will feel beer can cold. Always use your gauges and get valve extensions with cut off. Then you can bleed most of the refrigerant back onto the system before disconnecting.
Can you help me with following math? * AC unit on the attic, ducts insulated. * R410A, * out door temp - 93f, * low(blue) pressure/temp - 160psi/55f, * high(red) pressure/temp - 340psi/105f, * return pipe temp - 100-105f. * (out side temp) - (high(red) temp) = 12f what is less than expected 15f. * (high(red) temp) - (return pipe temp) = 0f (sometimes 5f) what is less than expected 10f. * (supply temp) - (the nearest cooling grill temp) = 7f up to 10f what is at least 9f less than expected. Note: AC documents/labels do not have any suggestion regarding subcooling (Goodman GSX130301B*) Math with 15f difference between outside temp vs (high(red) temp) and 10f difference between (high(red) temp) vs return pipe temp does not work here. I have 12f (very close) and 5 to 0f (big difference). Questions: 1. did I get it right the system needs charging to hit 115F on (high(red) temp) gauge, so there is 10f difference with return pipe temp? 2. To hit 115f on gauge I need to add 40PSI. What is approximately amount of refrigerant I need? if I buy 5 lb would it be enough or should I buy 10 lb to be safe?
Can’t really top off a 410A system if it’s running low on pressure. 410A is a blend and if you have a leak the blend of refrigerants boil off at different pressure’s . Knowing that you don’t know which of the blend is low . This means pulling all the refrigerant out and replacing it with a fresh charge of 410A . Saying that you need to locate leak or you will bring doing this all over again. New refrigerant blends are Dothan the old R22 or R12 refrigerants that you could just top off .
Hi dear sir:im really complicated about charging liquid to suction line,for example 2 lb liquid refrigrant to suction line dosnt damage the comppresor? As ive been thought that liquid will damage comppressor in suction line and the reason that we sgould have sh at suction line is that to prevent liquid gas return to compresor.please explain.yours sincerly :peeno
My 2015 410a Lennox systems show no subcool on the plate. They show 236 low, 446 High. Low was 75 PSI and bedroom vent to bedroom ceilings Diff was 10F deg. Added 410a refrigerant slowly while running bringing low up to just over 100 PSI and High just under 300PSI. We keep Thermostat at 76F. Bedroom vent to ceiling diff is now 20-22F, two floors down from system in attic. Is this ok or overcharged? Or, can it do even better if I bring low up to 125PSI? Also, Do better SEERs result in larger vent to ceiling diffs or same but work more efficiently? Did not touch my 3rd AC for 1st floor which runs great with a new A-coil last year. It runs at 125 PSI low and about 325 Hi. I assume different tonnage units use the same pressures given its never mentioned in tutorials. Please excuse my HVAC newbie homeowner questions. Thank you.
Thanks for the video. Can you tell me why you turn the 410A upsidedown? I hear you are to keep the R22 right side up. Does feeding liquid shock the compressor when you turn 410A upside down?
No it's just the way you're supposed to charge a blended refrigerant like 410. I actually just turn 22 upside down too. Scroll compressors are much lore resilient to liquid refrigerant than recip or piston compressors of the past.
@@foxfamilyheatingandaircond4696 thanks, that makes sense,one more question, is there any other blended refrigerant out there like the new one that replaces R22 or the new one that will replace 410a? Thanks.
@@Mustang7995 we use 407c for R22. But we remove existing R22 before doing so. As for 410a no one is using any alt. refrigerant for it as far as I know.
@@foxfamilyheatingandaircond4696 As of January, 2022, COMSTAR has perfected a "DROP IN REPLACEMENT" FOR R-410-A. This new "blended refrigerant" is called RS-53 (or R-470A). It's supposed to allow existing 410-A air conditioning systems to operate to factory specifications without any "modifications." All of the old R-410-A refrigerant needs to be removed from an existing system, and the NEW refrigerant (R-470-A) added back in. The GWP of this new product is more than 50 percent less than the GWP of R-410-A. This should satisfy the EPA, but who knows what our politicians in congress will allow. If this new product is successful, all of the HVAC equipment manufacturers can continue to make and distribute the same equipment for many more years into the future!!
Hello Fox Family, a question, when adding refrigerant, how do I know my refrigerant tank is empty? By looking at the small rounded window on the manifold?
A scale will tell you that info. But if you shake the tank side to side (don't go overboard!) you will feel the liquid refrigerant inside. A tank starts out around 25 to 30 lbs. The tank itself weighs just a few at the most. This should give you good info.
Can it be replaced with refrigerant grade propane instead? Or could you run regular propane through an activated charcoal and zeolite filter, and then use that?
Hi, my r410a with txv unit. The suction saturation temp is about 33F and suction line temp is 48F giving 15F of superheat. But why is my liquid line saturation temp is 97 and my liquid line temp is also 97. I tried adding some refrigerant but nothing changes. This is a high velocity system air handler with a slab coil. I think my suction saturation temp is also too low. Both coils are clean and txv valve is new. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks
First of all I want to say I’ve only listened to half this video. The first half has huge gaps in no sound. Next I want to say everybody’s going about this the hard way. 410a is a blend of three separate gases. If one of these gases leaks out from the system everything that’s in The system is suspect. The best way to recharge a system is to see first of all if you can find a leak. If there is no obvious leaks the next thing you should do is to change the valve cores on the access ports. The next thing you should do is evacuate all the refrigerant that is in the system. Read the data on the nameplate data and find out how many ounces or pounds and ounces your unit takes to operate efficiently. A digital scale is needed to put the proper charge in the system with “ The bottle turned upside down so that the shut off valve is on the bottom”. The refrigerant bottle should be upside down on your Digital scale. If you have evacuated the system, you should then put The liquid in the high side first. Once the system is equalized, you may now turn on The system so that it runs. Slowly put the liquid into the suction side. If you put it in too fast, it will wash away the oil in the compressor and cause compressor failure. Once you have the measured amount call for on the nameplate data in the system, check for proper pressures on the gauges and temperatures. You are checking for the return air temperature and the supply air temperature for the inside ( approximately 20 to 30° difference). For the outside, you are checking outdoor temperature versus exhaust temperature of the fan on the condensing unit. This should take care of your cooling problem. However, this is only if you have a small leak in the system somewhere. You could still have a metering device problem or other problems with the system. As in someone else’s post, the only way you can buy this refrigerant is if you hold an EPA certification. This is something that is not normally held by the homeowner. Unfortunately, the best way to fix your problem is to call a technician. I say unfortunately because you’re going to have to bite the bullet and pay the trained individual to fix your unit. This really is not a homeowner fix.
I didn’t go into great detail because this is for the trained technician. I will say this about leaks, small leaks are usually noted by oily patches on the coil or oily patches on the copper lines. You will usually need an OXY acetylene torch set to fix these kinds of problems. That is why I suggest a trained technician.
As a self-professed expert, it would be expected for you to know that 410a has 2 gases, not 3. 50/50 blend of r32 and r125. A discerning reader would use this observation when judging the reliability of the rest of the write up.
@@fredware1324 For the leak, why couldn't you thoroughly clean the area with a good solvent cleaner (and/or rough it up a bit with some sandpaper), and then use original JB Weld epoxy? JB Weld is one of the few epoxies that works well with vacuum systems (i.e. can seal them well without outgassing much and being very low permeable), has a broad temp tolerance range, is pretty strong _and_ tough stuff.
Never add R check for supply air return air temps. If less that 21 degree split after 20 minutes check the entering air to outdoor coil temp entering air in shade. If liquid line temp is lower on liquid line than shaded entering shaded coil temp your low on R. If to high on liquid line than O.D. entering air (shaded) temp more than 11 degrees it's slightly over charged.
Never charge vapor with a blend like R410A, you will compromise the blend as the different refrigerants evaporate at different temperatures, in fact, I have never seen anyone comment on this but I always make a habit of shaking the cylinder to mix everything up before charging.
compressors in residential can handle small amount of liquid, open the suction valve on your gauge a little bit as you add, creates some flash gas, like how a fixed orfice metering device works
1st thing everyone thinks, my system needs charged. Unless a leak exists and system was not probably charged during install, it should not be low on gas- refrigerant, freon is a trade name for dupont r-12. I will not be watching to the end, I assume you discuss bleeding has from the high side hose after disconnect. If not every time someone connects and disconnects you lose several oz.of refrigerant. Forget the rest, call the best
How old are you? If you are young and or can afford it go to school. It will pay off in the end. Also make sure you in your state that going to a trade school is not a requirement for apprenticeship or journeyman. You will have a easier time getting the jobs you want.
You should find a apprenticeship program with a hvac company, they need new hvac techs. Going to school won’t help you if you’ve never laid your hands on a hvac unit.
Almost new unit in our second home. Heat works. A/C blows good, but no cool air. I think it’s needing Freon. Not sure. I’ve heard you can do it yourself. Any tips? Thanks’
You can’t do it yourself (legally) unless you are licensed. If it a newer unit and it’s Low on refrigerant, theres a leak that needs fixing. You can’t buy refrigerant without a license.
Um I bought r22 without a license and charged my sysyem my self with correct subcool and superheat...... So yeah. You can buy refrigerant without a license and charge your system correctly as long as you have a normal functioning brain.....🤙🤙🤙
Check the label on your A/C. It probably takes R410a refrigerant which you can buy on Ebay but that said a nearly new unit shouldn't be low on refrigerant unless it has a leak. It might be better to call an AC tech in that case.
@@tonymiller6255 that’s an illegal purchase you need a EPA for r22 because it contains chlorine and is ozone depleting only refrigerant you can buy without a epa is 134a
It's 2 am and it sounds like a water fall in my ac closet , low on freon again , non of the local ax companies can fix the leak , spent enough to replace it now , had them redo the drain also , they didn't get that right either ..guess I gotta do it myself , after spending thousands to have local professionals do it ..what a joke ..got my macs license, bought my own gauges , bought some freon , got the multimeter that does Temps and such , still don't have a scale , but at 2 am ...priceless ..fixed it in 14 minutes for now ...now where is that leak , dam Sulphur water ate the new air handler (everything is right by the bathroom door that we shower in ) is what there telling me ????
leaks in systems means more money in my pocket dont add gas if you know its going to leak right back out TELL customer the only way to fix it is to fix it right!!!! FIX LEAK!! FIRST THEN ADD GAS
for sure. hard to keep my videos short enough though. plus I already did a video on "how to handle a refrigerant leak". Let me know what you think of it!
It's ok to add on high side if it's empty . With the unit not running. for few pounds then go to low side for the rest of it,but feed it just little at a time
I have a friend who is a licensed mechanical engineer in hvac systems and she says the ONLY proper way to add refrigerant is to pump the system down and add new refrigerant into the vacuumed lines. Is she wrong?
A guy came out today to charge our system with refrigerant and he said possibly there was a stuck valve inside because he couldn't get the unit to take any refrigerant but he seems like a total f****** dork can this be true do I need to have a tech come out and look at the valve on the inside of the house
it only cost me $200 for a guy to come out for a couple hours and diagnose everything and fill the unit. just pay the guy with experience this high pressure stuff aint like fixing a sink drain.
This should not be try it at home without supervision if you don’t know what you’re doing you can have a serious accident and burn yourself. Refrigerant is no joke and nothing to play around with. Sorry that’s the truth this is one thing you don’t want to make a mistake with.
Very true!
Just pinned this message to the top so everyone can see it.
It's OK to handle Freon for your car or truck, but not for your home A/C?
Not if it was never adjusted properly when installed
I need to add Freon. I have an inside unit in my basement. I finally was able to use my unit for first time and after three days it was frozen. It got colder for a couple days so I let it melt. My landlord said it might need Freon. There’s duct tape around unit that’s falling off. So I’m going to change filter and reapply duct tape around. See if that works first. If not, then I’ll have to call someone. What’s an estimate for Freon ? I’m a woman and no nothing about units. Only basics
As a tech that learned everything either out in the field or on UA-cam when I started, I distinctly remember when things finally snapped and became clear in my head when it came to refrigerant - from then on I always referred to the charge(especially the suction side) in terms of TEMPERATURE - not PRESSURE when communicating an issue to someone else or while figuring out the issue.
Trained a few other guys at the first company I worked for and would always try to get them to think in the same terms (Blue gauge TEMP, Red gauge Pressure) - it makes understanding Superheat and Subcooling (and what it means in the system that much easier).
Great info! Good to hear others doing the same! I have an experienced refrigeration guy who only wants to talk pressures when he's talking to others. everyone's different but can't bag on him since he's such a good tech. Thanks again
I don't do residential HVAC but in managing my own automotive HVAC I learned one thing. Well, a few but this one too. If I think the system may be under charged ALWAYS leak check the service ports BEFORE touching them with ANY tools or equipment. You will not find a leaking schrader valve with gauges attached and you will not have a definitive diagnosis if the reseating that takes place "fixes" the problem. Thank you for doing what you do here on UA-cam.
Thanks for your input 😊
Hallelujah, speaking my language, it shocks me that every single hvac channel does not mention this critical juncture
This is a good first step. When I get a no ac call it's the first thing I check. Check for power, check for leaks at valves. I'd say 20% of the time in the last 4 months I has been one of the valves.
@@travischaddock4826 And how often did the valve leak because some numbnut didn't tighten or even bother to reinstall the caps and it got dirt and corrosion in the port? It never leaked before untill YOU went and stuck your tool in it and let all the crap into the seal. Some people automatically change out the valves whenever they are going to enter or have entered a system.
Great video
I am a 54 year old maintenance tech and also do and still learning HVAC. Your videos are very informative
Going into my second summer and really am understanding these systems is becoming increasingly easier to understand. Really appreciate the video for folks like me.
i literally didnt understand a single part of this video, but something about listening to a guy who knows what he's talking about with visuals is so awesome
Yeah I definitely try and make this stuff geared more towards existing technicians. Sorry bout that. 😊
@@foxfamilyheatingandaircond4696 its great no need to be sorry at all
@@AmateurSuperFan Much appreciated 👍🏻
Greg, you have killed it as a small business owner. Most of you guys put out alot of great stuff on HVAC technical stuff. That's awesome. I would LOVE to hear more about the actual building of the business and growing it. Thats very inspiring!!!
Keep doing great things brother!
Chance from Myrtle Beach SC
Very nice of you to say. Thanks!
I took out all the freons from my unit, then I added propane. System is way colder I would say. Thanks for showing me how to do this and what tools to buy on craigslist
I've been wondering about this myself of late. Besides this video, are there any other good resources to help with this?
Speaking hypothetically, of course. I'm just interested in the physics and mechanics of it all, and wouldn't think of attempting this on my on own home system.
Very nice explanation, thanks for the video.
Cool! Thanks
New HVAC/R Tech in the game and this is the best I've seen it broken down for me. Thank you.
You did a good job explaining why and how to properly charge a system by temperatures instead of gauges, and really sounded like you know what you are talking about and seems like you went to trade school or learned off a educated teacher (instructor).
I appreciate that. I actually learned all this in the field, as I started this trade from scratch as a helper and worked my way up. Thanks for the comment. I really appreciate it
I'm just a guy who fixes his own stuff but you taught me a lot thanks
Thanks for making this video - best one I've seen on how to properly add refrigerant to a system. Helped me to top off my boat's A/C unit.
Best regards from Key West,
Capt. Blackheart Charlie
Great explanation. Thank you
Well done. You gave excellent information!
The first conversation you should be having with a customer once you determine the system is low on charge, is finding and repairing the leak.
for sure. hard to keep my videos short enough though. plus I already did a video on "how to handle a refrigerant leak". Let me know what you think of it!
Thanks for the video! One question... Wouldn't you want to find out where the leak is? 5 lbs. is a substantial leak, I would think you would be back there soon.
for sure. hard to keep my videos short enough though. plus I already did a video on "how to handle a refrigerant leak". Let me know what you think of it!
I am glad that you mentioned to add liquid refrigerant a little at a time, because here's what nobody mentioned is: when you add to much liquid Freon at one time, the chances are , that it will carry some of the compressor oil with it it and it will take a while to equalize again.
Very well explained sir.
great information about charging,
before charge i would try find leak first, open evap coil panel, look in drain pan for any trace of oil, most of the time thats where it leaks, if its is leaking, most coils have 10 year warranty, get it done when its under warranty.
good info jass
Nice.. and clear explanation.. thanks much😊
When I teach about gauges and pt I try to get them to use temps instead of pressure it is the best way to simplify
It really is.
Keep up the awesomeness every thing said in this video is how it should be taught at the schools and in field training
good job guys all around 10 stars
Hello , I just have a simple question.
Is it ok to store r22 , r410 a in your garage during summer?
And where to store it in winter ?
Thanks
This better be good 😄
Lol
It was.
@@foxfamilyheatingandaircond4696 It was helpful I am also a tech got of school in 2019 got my EPA and deploma
Great video more videos im trying to make my own ac company
Hi, boss, why not use digital gauge which can give you either superheat or subcool right away, easier & faster.
(One more thing, I think R-410A is a blended refrigerant, it can only be added as liquid in suction side, you'd better mention it to use a nuzzle or throttling method.)
Not needed, his gauge works...all he has to do is add 10 to the cold side and if it matches the hot he is done. I can deduct that equation faster than clamping on the sub cool wire.
Thanks very informative but one question @start if you are talking about td or approach temperature it shouldn't be return air temp ‐32 or 35 = coil temp
I have a set of test gauges. That way I do not automatically take too much from the system. With test gauges I take minimal refrigerant from a system.
This company is awesome, very great info
You're awesome!
Great videos for new techs. Wish I worked for you when I was a new guy, I think my life would’ve been a bit easier, great leadership my friend!
Very nice of you!
You never have to add refrigerant unless there is a leak. First find the leak, repair, then add refrigerant.
Thank you sir, very informative and great explained
Your the man. Thank you for the knowledge
Excellent
Great video Fox !!! How would you charge up a system that does not let the compressor come on because of the Low Pressure Switch preventing the contactor to close ? ( would you use vapor first as to not to hit the compressor and fill it just enough for the compressor to come on or would you fill with liquid right away ??? ) Thank you so much for taking your time and trying to answer my question !!!
what did you end up doing? I ask since thought vapor shouldn't be separated out. I have the same situation happening currently since I can't get my Dave Lennox XC21 edition compressor to turn on even though it is calling since the low pressure switch is preventing it.
@@humphreydchen sorry to hear man! And also sorry that I don't have a solution for you - I just left the whole thing for now while suffering Miami temperatures every day
@@humphreydchen after calling 4 AC guys in the past 11 months I now found one (through a friend) that did not try to extort thousands of dollars and actually fixed my AC ... I can not tell you how I feel ( my 4.5T TRANE was basically empty needed 11lb of 410A) and everything I diagnosed as in perfect working order - did not check out/work at all when he checked it - so he checked for leaks with nitrogen,filled the system,rigged the control board inside the air handler, fitted a new contactor and it works now ) so don't give up : good things come to those who wait, even in 108ºF ( pun fully intended )
@@mamumonkan I am confused by your description. What did you think was wrong and what was actually wrong according to the technician?
& if the liquid line temperature (make sure the sun or your hand, or other heat source is not warming the area where your temp probe is mounted) is cooler than the outside ambient temp, then suspect a restriction up stream for that measured spot of the liquid line....i.e. a liquid line filter drier.
Take a Delta-T across a liquid line filter drier, if it happens to be located up stream from the measured spot of the liquid line.
If there is a temp drop of (I think) more than 3 degrees, I have been told that the liquid line filter drier is the source of the restriction, & would need to be replaced with a new one.
Thank you for this.
Thanks Andy
Very informative. I have a somewhat different situation. A friend bought an abandoned building, and will soon tear it down and build a new one. I can take whatever I want before the demolition, such as the AC and furnace components. I believe the AC has not been turned on for over five years.
Is my first step to check the high and low side pressures at the compressor? If there is decent pressure at the compressor, would it make sense to try to get the AC running in the building? Or would it be better to disassemble everything and check the components individually, prior to reassembly at the garage I'm building? If there is pressure in the system, is there an easy way to capture the freon and reuse it at my new location?
You have to start this trade young and as a helper and work your way up..
Seems like some schools say add liquid, some vapor. I have seen both work and understand the phase change is the magic. What is your thinking in liquid over vapor?
add as a liquid 400 series refrigerants like 410A are a blend, when its a gas some of it separates and you may add more of a certain part of it, scroll compressors can take a small little bit of liquid
fantastic explanation. Do you have a video that talks specifically about subcooling?
Hi. While charging do I have to turn ac on?
I'll just add to be sure both sets of coils are clean with a new filter installed before moving forward with anything else.
Thank you great video!!
This is a course with perfect airflow that’s not a high static duct work situation. This is also with a perfectly clean filter and a perfectly clean coils and the appropriate size line set. Not to mention perfectly good capacitor as well as contactor outside can also affect the refrigerator. All these need to be done before you start adding refrigerant unless you know that system and are you just checked it all.
The further the distance between both units dictates the amount of time for a full cycle. A system that is charged will feel beer can cold. Always use your gauges and get valve extensions with cut off. Then you can bleed most of the refrigerant back onto the system before disconnecting.
Was very useful. Thanks a lot
great video thank you!
Can you help me with following math?
* AC unit on the attic, ducts insulated.
* R410A,
* out door temp - 93f,
* low(blue) pressure/temp - 160psi/55f,
* high(red) pressure/temp - 340psi/105f,
* return pipe temp - 100-105f.
* (out side temp) - (high(red) temp) = 12f what is less than expected 15f.
* (high(red) temp) - (return pipe temp) = 0f (sometimes 5f) what is less than expected 10f.
* (supply temp) - (the nearest cooling grill temp) = 7f up to 10f what is at least 9f less than expected.
Note: AC documents/labels do not have any suggestion regarding subcooling (Goodman GSX130301B*)
Math with 15f difference between outside temp vs (high(red) temp) and 10f difference between (high(red) temp) vs return pipe temp does not work here. I have 12f (very close) and 5 to 0f (big difference).
Questions:
1. did I get it right the system needs charging to hit 115F on (high(red) temp) gauge, so there is 10f difference with return pipe temp?
2. To hit 115f on gauge I need to add 40PSI. What is approximately amount of refrigerant I need? if I buy 5 lb would it be enough or should I buy 10 lb to be safe?
Very good nice information thanks
I hope you are able to take something away from this video. Let me know what you think of it below. I'd really be interested in hearing your opinion.
It's a very good video. If only most techs would follow it.
Can’t really top off a 410A system if it’s running low on pressure. 410A is a blend and if you have a leak the blend of refrigerants boil off at different pressure’s . Knowing that you don’t know which of the blend is low . This means pulling all the refrigerant out and replacing it with a fresh charge of 410A . Saying that you need to locate leak or you will bring doing this all over again. New refrigerant blends are Dothan the old R22 or R12 refrigerants that you could just top off .
thank you very much!
Thank you
Hi dear sir:im really complicated about charging liquid to suction line,for example 2 lb liquid refrigrant to suction line dosnt damage the comppresor? As ive been thought that liquid will damage comppressor in suction line and the reason that we sgould have sh at suction line is that to prevent liquid gas return to compresor.please explain.yours sincerly :peeno
This guy just got out of school you can TELL.
What about piston charging? Subcool is for txv only.
will need a different video for dat.
125 PSIG on the low side?
But the data plate on my condenser says 410A PSIG LOW: 236 HIGH: 446
What your looking at is test pressures I believe. That can confuse you.
My 2015 410a Lennox systems show no subcool on the plate. They show 236 low, 446 High. Low was 75 PSI and bedroom vent to bedroom ceilings Diff was 10F deg. Added 410a refrigerant slowly while running bringing low up to just over 100 PSI and High just under 300PSI. We keep Thermostat at 76F. Bedroom vent to ceiling diff is now 20-22F, two floors down from system in attic. Is this ok or overcharged? Or, can it do even better if I bring low up to 125PSI?
Also, Do better SEERs result in larger vent to ceiling diffs or same but work more efficiently?
Did not touch my 3rd AC for 1st floor which runs great with a new A-coil last year. It runs at 125 PSI low and about 325 Hi.
I assume different tonnage units use the same pressures given its never mentioned in tutorials.
Please excuse my HVAC newbie homeowner questions. Thank you.
Thanks for the video. Can you tell me why you turn the 410A upsidedown? I hear you are to keep the R22 right side up. Does feeding liquid shock the compressor when you turn 410A upside down?
No it's just the way you're supposed to charge a blended refrigerant like 410. I actually just turn 22 upside down too. Scroll compressors are much lore resilient to liquid refrigerant than recip or piston compressors of the past.
@@foxfamilyheatingandaircond4696 thanks, that makes sense,one more question, is there any other blended refrigerant out there like the new one that replaces R22 or the new one that will replace 410a? Thanks.
@@Mustang7995 we use 407c for R22. But we remove existing R22 before doing so. As for 410a no one is using any alt. refrigerant for it as far as I know.
@@foxfamilyheatingandaircond4696 As of January, 2022, COMSTAR has perfected a "DROP IN REPLACEMENT" FOR R-410-A. This new "blended refrigerant" is called RS-53 (or R-470A). It's supposed to allow existing 410-A air conditioning systems to operate to factory specifications without any "modifications." All of the old R-410-A refrigerant needs to be removed from an existing system, and the NEW refrigerant (R-470-A) added back in. The GWP of this new product is more than 50 percent less than the GWP of R-410-A. This should satisfy the EPA, but who knows what our politicians in congress will allow. If this new product is successful, all of the HVAC equipment manufacturers can continue to make and distribute the same equipment for many more years into the future!!
please,when exactly we need to chage or add refrigerant?,,and what is the standard?
How do you treat a system with an "R410-Flo-rater" metering device (Aspen DX-treme C-Series)? Like a piston or a TXV?
What do you think of replacing txv with a piston ?
thanks
Hello Fox Family, a question, when adding refrigerant, how do I know my refrigerant tank is empty? By looking at the small rounded window on the manifold?
A scale will tell you that info. But if you shake the tank side to side (don't go overboard!) you will feel the liquid refrigerant inside. A tank starts out around 25 to 30 lbs. The tank itself weighs just a few at the most. This should give you good info.
@@foxfamilyheatingandaircond4696 , Thank you! I am using the tank from few years ago. I cannot find "tare weight" info on the tank.
One day when a tank is empty...weigh it. Remember that weight and the next tank you are using needs to weigh more or its empty.
Why add liquid refrigerant to suction line though? Is it faster? Shouldn't you be adding liquid to liquid line and vapor to suction line?
adding refringent isn't the problem, low side of course but buying is. The main focus should be identifying the leak and then adding the Freon.
where can I buy the refrigerant? I have a portable ac unit that uses r32 coolant
@@leopoldbuttersstotch6060 depends on the Freon that you need, but most require a license - that’s how they screw you.
@@juanmacias4854 yep
Can it be replaced with refrigerant grade propane instead? Or could you run regular propane through an activated charcoal and zeolite filter, and then use that?
Hi, my r410a with txv unit. The suction saturation temp is about 33F and suction line temp is 48F giving 15F of superheat. But why is my liquid line saturation temp is 97 and my liquid line temp is also 97. I tried adding some refrigerant but nothing changes. This is a high velocity system air handler with a slab coil. I think my suction saturation temp is also too low. Both coils are clean and txv valve is new. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks
Would this apply to R22 although focusing on the green temp ring?
First of all I want to say I’ve only listened to half this video. The first half has huge gaps in no sound. Next I want to say everybody’s going about this the hard way. 410a is a blend of three separate gases. If one of these gases leaks out from the system everything that’s in The system is suspect. The best way to recharge a system is to see first of all if you can find a leak. If there is no obvious leaks the next thing you should do is to change the valve cores on the access ports. The next thing you should do is evacuate all the refrigerant that is in the system. Read the data on the nameplate data and find out how many ounces or pounds and ounces your unit takes to operate efficiently. A digital scale is needed to put the proper charge in the system with “ The bottle turned upside down so that the shut off valve is on the bottom”. The refrigerant bottle should be upside down on your Digital scale. If you have evacuated the system, you should then put The liquid in the high side first. Once the system is equalized, you may now turn on The system so that it runs. Slowly put the liquid into the suction side. If you put it in too fast, it will wash away the oil in the compressor and cause compressor failure. Once you have the measured amount call for on the nameplate data in the system, check for proper pressures on the gauges and temperatures. You are checking for the return air temperature and the supply air temperature for the inside ( approximately 20 to 30° difference). For the outside, you are checking outdoor temperature versus exhaust temperature of the fan on the condensing unit. This should take care of your cooling problem. However, this is only if you have a small leak in the system somewhere. You could still have a metering device problem or other problems with the system. As in someone else’s post, the only way you can buy this refrigerant is if you hold an EPA certification. This is something that is not normally held by the homeowner. Unfortunately, the best way to fix your problem is to call a technician. I say unfortunately because you’re going to have to bite the bullet and pay the trained individual to fix your unit. This really is not a homeowner fix.
I didn’t go into great detail because this is for the trained technician. I will say this about leaks, small leaks are usually noted by oily patches on the coil or oily patches on the copper lines. You will usually need an OXY acetylene torch set to fix these kinds of problems. That is why I suggest a trained technician.
As a self-professed expert, it would be expected for you to know that 410a has 2 gases, not 3. 50/50 blend of r32 and r125. A discerning reader would use this observation when judging the reliability of the rest of the write up.
There's not a single technician who would want to repair the unit. Every technician's from salesman pretty much
But thanks your reply helped alot in understanding some of confusion why he's adding liquid to the suction line
@@fredware1324 For the leak, why couldn't you thoroughly clean the area with a good solvent cleaner (and/or rough it up a bit with some sandpaper), and then use original JB Weld epoxy? JB Weld is one of the few epoxies that works well with vacuum systems (i.e. can seal them well without outgassing much and being very low permeable), has a broad temp tolerance range, is pretty strong _and_ tough stuff.
Never add R check for supply air return air temps. If less that 21 degree split after 20 minutes check the entering air to outdoor coil temp entering air in shade. If liquid line temp is lower on liquid line than shaded entering shaded coil temp your low on R.
If to high on liquid line than O.D. entering air (shaded) temp more than 11 degrees it's slightly over charged.
Hi
I have one of these Micro DC Air Conditioner Kit, DC 12V 450W R134A Refrigerant . how can I Add Refrigerant to it please???
You didn’t to purge the manifold and suction line
to the point!
How much do u charge per lb of freon. Let me compare to beutler and bonney.
good mr fox..
Can I add freon using one hose
Are you adding liquid refrigerant into the suction line? You placed the tank upside down. I thought we want vapor to go into the compressor.
Never charge vapor with a blend like R410A, you will compromise the blend as the different refrigerants evaporate at different temperatures, in fact, I have never seen anyone comment on this but I always make a habit of shaking the cylinder to mix everything up before charging.
compressors in residential can handle small amount of liquid, open the suction valve on your gauge a little bit as you add, creates some flash gas, like how a fixed orfice metering device works
Good info...thanks!
Do you need to bleed the suction and liquid hose?
What do you mean?
@@foxfamilyheatingandaircond4696 after bleeding the service hose, are you suppose to bleed the low side hose?
1st thing everyone thinks, my system needs charged.
Unless a leak exists and system was not probably charged during install, it should not be low on gas- refrigerant, freon is a trade name for dupont r-12.
I will not be watching to the end, I assume you discuss bleeding has from the high side hose after disconnect.
If not every time someone connects and disconnects you lose several oz.of refrigerant.
Forget the rest, call the best
How much should a compressor replacement cost??
I paid $1400 for a Trane scroll compressor and $1200 for labor. The teck knew exactly how to do it. $2600 vs $15,000 was a no brainer for me.
@@amtrakusa1 dude thanks for responding much appreciated
Is going to hvac school worth it or should i try to find some apprenticeship program?
How old are you? If you are young and or can afford it go to school. It will pay off in the end. Also make sure you in your state that going to a trade school is not a requirement for apprenticeship or journeyman. You will have a easier time getting the jobs you want.
You should find a apprenticeship program with a hvac company, they need new hvac techs. Going to school won’t help you if you’ve never laid your hands on a hvac unit.
Almost new unit in our second home. Heat works. A/C blows good, but no cool air. I think it’s needing Freon. Not sure. I’ve heard you can do it yourself. Any tips? Thanks’
You can’t do it yourself (legally) unless you are licensed. If it a newer unit and it’s Low on refrigerant, theres a leak that needs fixing. You can’t buy refrigerant without a license.
So... call an ac repair tech because you probably don’t even have the right tools
Um I bought r22 without a license and charged my sysyem my self with correct subcool and superheat...... So yeah. You can buy refrigerant without a license and charge your system correctly as long as you have a normal functioning brain.....🤙🤙🤙
Check the label on your A/C. It probably takes R410a refrigerant which you can buy on Ebay but that said a nearly new unit shouldn't be low on refrigerant unless it has a leak. It might be better to call an AC tech in that case.
@@tonymiller6255 that’s an illegal purchase you need a EPA for r22 because it contains chlorine and is ozone depleting only refrigerant you can buy without a epa is 134a
Remember, if you have to add freon, you have a leak somewhere.
410A is a blend refrigerant if 5 pounds leaked out you cant just add 5 pounds and expect it to work properly.
Hmm. Assuming you were to take care of the leak or vacuum , I would say adding those 5 lbs back would take care of it.
It’s not that critical
If 5 lbs of a blend leaks out why wouldn't adding 5 lbs of a blend work properly?
Adding réfrigérant as a liquid might damage thé compressor i think
My thoughts exactly.
It's 2 am and it sounds like a water fall in my ac closet , low on freon again , non of the local ax companies can fix the leak , spent enough to replace it now , had them redo the drain also , they didn't get that right either ..guess I gotta do it myself , after spending thousands to have local professionals do it ..what a joke ..got my macs license, bought my own gauges , bought some freon , got the multimeter that does Temps and such , still don't have a scale , but at 2 am ...priceless ..fixed it in 14 minutes for now ...now where is that leak , dam Sulphur water ate the new air handler (everything is right by the bathroom door that we shower in ) is what there telling me ????
leaks in systems means more money in my pocket dont add gas if you know its going to leak right back out TELL customer the only way to fix it is to fix it right!!!! FIX LEAK!! FIRST THEN ADD GAS
for sure. hard to keep my videos short enough though. plus I already did a video on "how to handle a refrigerant leak". Let me know what you think of it!
is he adding liquid to the low side?
Yes with 410 you have to but feed it slow to fast will push the oil out
5:30 adding in the liquid form would cause more stress to the compressor from my experience. I believe the gas form would be better (not upside down).
No bro
Not for 4-10A De-Fractionates the refrigerant.
Can't Charge in vapor form
Where can I buy the fe on. I did not have the HVAC license.Thank you
shop.chillercity.com they will give you
Bay Area
Freon is a trade name.
Correct term is refrigerant
why you add Refrigerant using the high pressure side? @6:37 it is dangerous
It's ok to add on high side if it's empty . With the unit not running. for few pounds then go to low side for the rest of it,but feed it just little at a time
I have a friend who is a licensed mechanical engineer in hvac systems and she says the ONLY proper way to add refrigerant is to pump the system down and add new refrigerant into the vacuumed lines. Is she wrong?
Yes
Very wrong
500 dogecoins for u .😅great video
Very good review for techs. However homeowners should never try this as they may over charge system etc.
Just replace the TXV 😜
A guy came out today to charge our system with refrigerant and he said possibly there was a stuck valve inside because he couldn't get the unit to take any refrigerant but he seems like a total f****** dork can this be true do I need to have a tech come out and look at the valve on the inside of the house
it only cost me $200 for a guy to come out for a couple hours and diagnose everything and fill the unit. just pay the guy with experience this high pressure stuff aint like fixing a sink drain.
1..you get E.P.A. certified
I THOUGHT THIS WAS AN INSTRUCTION HOW TO FILL- ARE YOU TEACHING A CLASS?