**NOTES** - The timeline in this video has some errors. I have made a video with a corrected timeline: ua-cam.com/video/KQZhpQuzMVQ/v-deo.html - Quick correction on my (terrible) Greek! "Anemo" does mean "Wind." What I meant to say but did not was that "Anemo" doesn't mean "Air." Usually elemental systems are like earth, water, fire, air, but Genshin makes a deliberate choice to use Wind > Air, so Anemo > Aeros (Greek for Air). I wanted to make this point because Anemo = Anemoi which were born from the star god Astarios (which sounds like Astaroth which is basically the Ars Goetia name for Ishtaroth). Sorry about that! - Many of you have suggested that the Second Throne may not be the Archon war. This is may be the case which I did touch on later (but not explicitly enough, ig). My issue with placing the Second Throne is that we don't have any cataclysmic events established between PO and the Archon war aside from the fall of the Moon Sisters (which we can't even place in the timeline). I also can't think of anything else (beyond a change of leadership) that would prompt Celestia to want to implement the system of the Seven. Either the Second Throne was the Archon War, OR the second throne was a separate event from earlier and we have a possible THIRD THRONE. No matter which way you slice it, Enkanomiya's timeline doesn't line up well...
I feel like second throne is Celestia. The part in book about Phanes being victor is just a speculation of people and not a definite statement. It is possible that phanes lost the battle of throne. Otherwise a god who would rain and bring food if people were hungry, give them anything whenever they needed and loved them so much would not just flip 180 and put a ban on them So i feel that either Phanes is defeated or he is captured or controlled In Traveller profile we have literally the line about "The keeper is fading away; the creator has not yet come. But the world shall burn no more, for you shall ascend." It suggests that creator(Phanes) is missing indicating that he escaped, keeper might be the sustainer of heavenly principle. Also about Enkanomiya timeline, i think since it's a whole different realm i.e nether realm, so time flowing different shouldn't be a big surprise especially when we have already seen another example of time running differently in other dimension i.e abyss
They were a civilization known as Byakuyakoku for a majority of time before they fell into the depths and became known as Enkanomiya later. They were maybe only Enkanomiya for only 200 years or more perhaps. You are also missing another war before or a little bit after Morax was born. The one where the Primordial God and his shades fought against the second throne.
Enkanomiya was interesting especially when it comes to Paimon. Spoiler: during the sun child quest and talking to the child ghosts i found it interesting that the child that could tell one's fate couldn't tell anything about Paimon because there was some sort of "interference".
pffft yeah, kind of like that billboard in the disney office by Alex Hirsch and the Gravity Falls crew titled "HOW TO KILL GOD" while they were brainstorming ideas to defeat Bill Cipher. Hoyoverse writers pulling random shit out of old books and mythology and then somehow weaving them perfectly into the lore of this game, can't imagine how the notes they write for that stuff must be like.
From what i understood Teyvat was ruled by seven dragon lords earlier. Later Phanes came and defeated these seven dragon lords, defeated dragon and their kins refused to live under his rule and went to void realm. There were only two realms in beginning but Phanes created humans, animals, beasts etc. thus creating a third realm that can be called human realm. Humans were happy, Phanes listened to them, whatever people wanted he would give to them. But these period ended and second throne of heavens came. It ensued battle between Phanes and second throne. Battle was of such intensity that heavens and earth were rip asunder. Enkanomiya fell into nether realm in this fight which is intersection of all realms. In void realm there were already dragon heirs who were there after being defeated by Phanes. These beasts started hunting humans. These beasts love dark environment and hated light so this area was favourable to them. Enkanomiyan who were trapped here prayed and prayed but there was no response from Phanes. At that time only God that was with them was god of time, Istaroth (one of the four shades of Phanes). Meanwhile Battle above ended but when these people tried to go outside they understood that they were sealed and not allowed to escape. We don't know who was the victor but they guess that it was Phanes. (i think it was second throne that won) One of these guys named Abrax had a vision from the Istaroth about a giant illuminating device, so he built up an artificial sun to light this void realm. He succeeded and his creation was called Helios. The dragonheir who loved darkness escaped back in darkness and people were safe. But good moment didn't last long. Soon nobles started trying controlling/monopolizing everything. Even this artificial sun. They created a new religion, made imaginary god and told everyone that Abrax was the prophet of God. Then they started putting small children on throne using religion to make a puppet government while controlling them from shades in name of religion. These small children who were made ruler were called sunchildren. No one was allowed to interact with them, even their personal caretaker couldn't talk with them. And even sad that knowing that if they grow up they can't be controlled easily. They literally incinerated then in artificial sun before they grew in name of ceremony. Some revolts took place but failed. Even Abrax himself opposed when he saw what was happening but he himself was killed in the name of treason against holy sunchildren. When all this was happening below, above in land Celestia decided to replace the gap left by seven sovereign by seven archons. And thus started a series of battle in different regions also known as archon war. Orobashi fled and went into dark sea as he didn't want to participate. The seal separating nether realm(Enkanomiya) by then was weakened and that's how somehow through underocean cave system he reached in the nether realm. One boy who had bet with his friends somehow met him in cave and asked him to become their god. Sunchildren rule was already bad and public didn't like them so it was even easier to defeat all them. He defeated them and became the god. Being a snake god just like their imaginary god "Ouroboros" probably further increased his acceptance and popularity. He with himself brought the culture of Teyvat/Narukami there. That's why you will find a lot of sinshades with two names, Japanese and Greek type name. He taught them farming, smelting and lot other things. He also helped them further on research on Vishaps/dragonheirs. But again good period didn't last long. He by mistake came across a thing he shouldn't have. He read the book which told that Celestia etc are not from Teyvat and from other world. Celestia somehow came to know about this and simply ordered him to die. Knowing power of celestia and knowing that if he doesn't die/comply Celestia will nuke him alongwith whole civilization. So he decided to try his best to save people of Enkanomiya and create a suicide mission for himself which doesn't cause any suspicion. He brought them above in a rather safer place and led a war against Narukami knowing well that if he is killed then at least finally they will be under rule of seven and remain safe. Enkanomiyan never knew of this sacrifice he did as he was pretty sure that if left alone then they will probably be nuked too. But he didn't destroy the records, he rather put them under several trials and puzzles under security so that one day someone capable will come and see the truth. Now time skip to current, we went down there to bring coral jade branches which grow on the experimental vishaps which had transplanted corals from Orobashi, there to control the "holy soil" phenomenon of Watatsumi. Their soil grow unfertile due to it and thus they routinely bring those corals of their god which are powerful enough to stop this phenomenon. We went down as the hero of the ritual, we met a guy Enjou who was also there for some reason. Later we realise that abyss order is also looking for those books to confirm their theories about Celestia not being from Teyvat. Even when enkanomiya was there, they had sent a delegation there and they tried to steal that sun and moon book. We hear this story from a sinshade who is falsely accused of stealing that book That's all i could understand, if i am wrong somewhere correct me
I think everything makes sense except for the timeline. Like ashikai says it should only be a period of 200 years or so in enkonomya which doesn't match with the event timeline of tayvat. But other than that great explanation as I was struggling a bit to keep up with the series of events
@@abidance6444 since it's a whole different dimension, that is nether realm, so time flowing different than normal human realm might not be that unexpected Especially since we already have other example of time flowing different in other realm like in abyss.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but the position of archon existed before the archon war. While the archons likely filled the role of the seven sovereigns, the archon war that we commonly refer to was just a period of upheaval across all of teyvat that saw a complete reshuffle of the seats. Decarbarian at least according to the English version was referred to as the anemo archon, and in venti's character story, his death lead to the "crumbling of an ancient seat of divinity" ('seats of divinity' being used to sometimes refer to as a position as archon).
This is my theory: Khaenri'ah or the Abyss is not one nation but many. Enkanomiya has many inspirations from ancient Greece. Ancient Greece was not one nation but many. they are called Polis-Krate ("Πόλη-Κράτος"/"Πόλεις-Κράτη" means "city-state") Athens and Sparta, for example, were not considered one nation but two seperate "cities", Polis-Krate. What if Khaenri'ah is actually inspired by ancient Greece and Enkanomiya is actually a Polis-Kratos of Khaenri'ah?
That's a cool idea, and good point about ancient Greece. But then how do we square the fact that the Enkanomiyan shades refer to a delegation "from Kaenri'ah"?
Hmmmmm.... Yeah, agreed. Time flows differently in the abyss and Enkanomiya. But "Kaenri'ah" for lack of better term has a destruction we can pinpoint. -the cataclysm. If Enkanomiya sank into the void (yes, I'm a Minecraft player - and Sussy McSuspants Enjou DID warn us that falling from an island would be an eternal fall...) before the archons claimed their divinity. -before Celestia's rise, and therefore holds a secret Celestia couldn't destroy because they couldn't reach it (that says SOOOOOOOO much about their power btw) and CELESTIA supposedly destroyed Kaenri'ah.... yeah, those timelines don't match up. BUT (devil's advocate here) since Enkanomiya claims to have belonged to a unified world government before it's plunge into the void, perhaps Kaenri'ah was the name of that land and the people that we now associate with that name were nostalgics. Clinging to an old world order and therefore destroyed in a new world order..... Now THAT is plausible. Probable? -meh... But definitely plausible.
Idk if yall noticed this yet, but somewhere at the bottom of one of enkonomiya's islands by the side of a cliff, there's a giant statue of a cloaked man holding a lantern (only visible during night) and a branch of corals and coiled around his lower half is a giant body of a snake. Based on how the snake body is positioned and the lack of its head seen, it looks like the snake body is actually the lower body of the man, like a naga. The branch of corals caught my attention, and the pose the snake guy had with the lantern made it seem like he was leading/guiding. Orobashi's most prominent feature in his stories are his corals, and he was known to lead the enkonomiya people to light, so seeing the snake guy statue made me wonder if orobashi ever had a human/naga form, the same way zhongli has both an exuvia and the form that resembles a human
I’m still wondering why Celestia wouldn’t just destroy “Before Sun and Moon” and “The Pale Princess and the Six Pygmies” instead of wiping out anyone who discovers their secrets. I wonder if Kairos somehow sustains this knowledge for later generations.
i think it's the... there's a technical/academic term for it, but like something something about information and memetic things that cannot be controlled the same way as physical things. if one person knows about some topic, it is not enough for a single copy to be destroyed to contain said topic. just like how that one book was translated into teyvatian (?) and dispersed in that form. burning books do nothing if the information exists in the memories of living people. or in the case of genshin's universe... maybe they started preserving people's memories in constellations unable to be recycled by the world tree for a more sinister reason...
@@littlegreenclementine then just destroy the books so no one else can uncover their secrets? Like if they just destroyed all the evidence and killed off the remaining people who know of it. No one would ever know forever
Mihoyo: sooooo how complicated do you want the timeline to be? Ashikai: NO Mihoyo: hmmmm... that's a weird way of saying YES anyway next theory is the one with Paimon and pre Teyvat's history?
MHY: How good you want the story telling inside the game want to be? Me: Yes MHY: that's a weird way of making us sprinkle bits of lore here and there but not actually clarify or confirm it. *Analysis doesn't mean canon
@@Vizible21 yeah. They put too much effort into the lore that they completely forget about the writing of the story and narrative. Like why is all this lore so important when even if it does all lead up to a climax, the journey to get there was garbage.
Yep ... Especially after they made not one but to references to paimon's true nature in Enkanomiya. The comment of Enjou that she'd betray us... And the fact the Paimon doesn't hate any fate or Destiny found out by one of those Sunchildern
When you have very little time because your fan base is in eternal hunger for content you throw together some things that sound cool and hope noone will start digging to Deep. Inconsistency of time lines is something really common for Mihoyo since they often change entire canon or forget some things all together
Yeah the most frustrating part of Genshin lore in general is that there's no concrete dates so it's difficult to form a cohesive timeline. If we were given actual dates instead of approximations it would solve so many lore...issues.
An interesting point about the sinshades. They are a result of powerful emotions and are a result of the power of one of the four shades of the primordial one. And like you pointed out the elements are of Greek roots... and visions are also a result (at least in some part) of powerful emotions. Pretty wild speculation but it'd be interesting if the secret of visions is that they actually stem from the power of the primordial one and Celestia somehow has imprisoned or controls this power. Seeing the lengths Celestia goes to hide the history of the primordial one it would make sense if the truth of visions was linked to this truth.
@@gumball6445 The Demiurge, especially by definition, fits closer to the unknown God at the start of the game (or as the in-game files calls her, Asmody).
I'm watching this because MHY still won't voice quests like these. I'm sorry but it's just engaging enough for my adhd brain to pay attention to And the brightside; i'm glad you've basically condensed it into a digestible and enjoyable experience. Thanks so much, Ashikai!
I think that venti being one of the thousand winds makes sense because his original form was very small, as if there were more of him, but i think his friend gave him the strength he needed to grow? like a power of friendship type of moment. And since he looks like a seelie, maybe they're the other 999 winds? that does look like a good number for completion purposes. also Paimon was weird in this quest. Especially with what Enjou said in the end of the quest along the lines of we should be careful about Paimon because even she can backstab us, and although he probably was taking a wild guess i want to assume that line was put there with purpose.
23:49 it's probably already been mentioned by someone but I think it's interesting to note that mondstadt seems to have worshipped Kairos and barbatos *together* like they were some sort of packaged deal at some point, as wind and time always seem to be associated with eachother via phrases in game Why mondstadt worshipped her? No clue. Why they forgot about her? Also no clue, but they fact the worshipped her at all is pretty interesting Also it's just very funny that mondstadt and enkanomiya seem to have any sort of connection, I swear you learn stuff about mondstadt everywhere-
The war of the second throne may have been Celestia's war against the Second Moon Sister or perhaps the Seelie's thrones. The Archon War isn't the only war period in Teyvat's history.
I think this whole messy passage of time thing can be solved in a simple way: the sage who had seen the sun is not Abrax, or if that isn't the case, then he saw it in a dream or a vision from Kairo. That makes it so that the only thing timing Enkanomias exile is the war of the second throne, which isn't specifically named as the archon war. I at least will think of it this way for the time being.
That actually makes things line up pretty well and works with what we know gods are capable of as far as granting visions (in the dream sense that is). I'm honestly surprised that wasn't mentioned as a possibility in the vid.
Another possibility with no evidence for it might be that the Sage who had seen the sun (probably as you say not being Abrax) was a stranger who found their way to Enkanomya somehow from the surface, rather than a native.
@@TheLogicMouse That wouldn't make sense though as Enkanomiya was sealed off by Celestia preventing anyone from going in or out. The only person/thing that managed to get in was Orobashi and by then the Dainichi Mikoshi was already created and the seal most likely weakened due to time and the Archon War probably throwing the elements into chaos.
"fun" thing i notice: there is one grave on south end of the Evernight Temple. It's a grave of one of the sunchild. At evernight time, there are these glowing flower that pop up. they are same flower as on Hu Tao's dress and the dress of lady in front of the Funeral parlour. In real life, they represent death (i think). And we dont see them anywhere else in the game.
idk why but this quote about Kairos REALLY resonates with me for Paimon's characteristics: "She was the moment. She was every moment. She was the measure of a thousand winds and the sun and the moon. She was every second of joy, every moment of rage, every instant of longing, every minute of obsession. She was every flash of delirium". Considering she could change time ingame, was found in mondstadt near the 1000 winds temple of old, has extreme emotions, and obsessive for pretty much anything.. Probably wrong, but wanted to share my thoughts.
With those greek words and Zhongli being the oldest guy we know, now is a good time to remember his sixth constellation is named "Chrysos, bounty of the dominator". Chrysos means gold, so on the surface I assumed it was a way to say "to the victor the spoils" while keeping with the mineral theming of these constellations. But now... Between that and the whole Vishap connection, I'm back to what seems to be my main way to process lore these days, which is to stare at Zhongli and ask what he's hiding this time.
@@Ranakel as someone who has all 3 archons Venti is definitely the most shady....Zhongli will withhold Information from you but at the very least he will tell you that he knows something but cannot speak on that matter as he has signed a contract. Venti won't even tell you that much....he will simply laugh it off.
@@ishuika Also, Venti knows a lot from what we can see in the visions he casually gives people. Also, he did call out the Fatui's plans regarding Dvalin and his Gnosis.
The interesting thing about one of the loading screens is that they say that Byaku people learning the culture of Narukami was meant to whitewash and erase their memories of their ancient civilization. Perhaps this was done as part of protecting the people of Watatsumi after Orobashi being sentenced to die, but the phrasing of this doesn't sound that way to me, maybe there was something else causing this.
There were two groups in Byakuyakoku. One wanted to remember, the other opted to forget. The ones who wanted to forget were the Sangonomiyan's, and they eventually became the rulers (hence, Kokomi). Those who wanted to remember were like Erebus who left archives behind. It was a weird compromise.
The tidbit about Orobashi alone was enough for me to appreciate this area so much. Though that begs the question, Orobashi is responsible for the death of one of Ei's friends (the tengu in her trailer) which goes to show how strong it was, so if Orobashi had won... what would a giant snake Archon look like? Would it shoot electricity out of its mouth or something.
I guess maybe Orobashi can have a human form? I mean, Morax was a dragon but has a human form. Venti was a wind spirit but took the form of a friend, so I guess if Orobashi was the electro archon, he would take on a human form for the sake of being playable
@@binniee9326 Human form wise, Orobashi would probably look like Naruto's Orochimaru perhaps. But given how chill Orobashi was, he'd probably be post 4th great ninja world war Orochimaru.
@@binniee9326 Orabashi actually have statues in enkanomiya in his human form some are even depicted with him having a half human and half sepent body on some walls in enkanomiya
Been waiting a whole lot for this, love the videooo My main toughts on this are 1- I think that the second who came and the archon war are two different things, making the war against him predate the archon war and thus making the timeline a lil bit less confusing. 2- I will bet my life that the omnipresent statue on inazuma is either Phanes or Kairos 3- I am going crazy in conspiracy theory mode that the battle pass cutscene venti sings to us might be related to the thrones/phanes/whatever the hell was going on there. Think about it: A HEIR to a kingdom in the sky that comes to teyvat looking for the genesis pearl and is tricked by a SERPENT into thinking they are the ruller of the abyss and a SECOND HEIR coming to do what the first didn't and COMFRONT THEM i cant not think abt it being related send help
@@Ashikai Think about it this way, Enkanomiya's netherworld is directly neighboring the Abyss, which has already been tested positive for timey-whiney shenanigans, also who says Enkanomiya's time system is anything like Teyvat's? They literaly had no stars, moons, or even regular natural phenomenon to guide themselves by _they have FOLDS IN SPACE_ (shrine of Ouroboros/Delphi), at this point you're better off thinking of this all as chains of events in certain orders with time being only complementary (if it is even existant) Figures we'd get screwed over the moment we learned anything concrete about the god of time, it's a curse, Mihoyo know what they're doing and revel in our suffering
I think in the book it was said, at the beginning of the time of the primordial one, when Phanes was born through an egg, but in the process of hatching Phanes did not destroy the shell and used the shell to form a protection around the already created world. Which means the world wasn't created again (?). Which also supports ashikai's other theory about the world structure of teyvat. Also Venti may have some control over time as well, which would explain how he temporarily restored the Holy Lyre of Himmel with his "little trick".
I think one of the important detail about the book "Before Sun and Moon" that needs to be considered is the all the chapters name started with 'parable'. So the tale in "The Parable of the Sun" talking about a sage who have witnessed sun can't be taken at face value, it is purposely written in cryptic. It is either to conceal some truths, or it is a prophecy told when Enkanomiya sunk below the ground. Noted that "The Parable of the Sun" is a chapter before "The Year of Blindness", which sage Abrax is 1st mentioned about his wisdom 'awakened'. So there might actually be a lot of years have passed in between the sinking of Enkanomiya and the creation of Helios by Abrax.
Abrax never had wisdom awakened, if we are to believe him (which I do). But we do know that it was because of a sage that the Enkanomiyans even knew how to light torches and candles (which we see everywhere) to fend off the Vishaps. It's possible that they are not the same person, but I think it's more likely that they are. It makes sense that Abrax would look at the candles and be like "there's gotta be a better way. how do I make a HUUUUGE one?" and then get to planning. But arguably, he could do this at any time. It's just my opinion, anyway.
@@Ashikai Indeed the 'wisdom awakened' most likely just be a form of writing expression instead of literal meaning. Mihoyo has done a great job in giving just enough information for us to speculate a lot, but far from enough to form concrete conclusion. So it is possible the time could be whacky underground, just like you have said about those time tunnels before.
I think that Mondstadt is the closest link we have to that unified nation and, by proxy, Khaenri’ah itself. Apart from Germany, it’s secondary language seems to be Latin, which is the primary language we see associated with Khaenri’ah (German too, see Dainsleif, Rhinedottir, Alberich). Now, if this unified nation was Greece, then wouldn’t it make sense that Khaenri’ah is Ancient Rome? Latin was the primary language of Rome, and Rome took plenty of inspiration from Ancient Greece in countless aspects of their civilization. What if Khaenri’ah, and maybe even Mondstadt, based their cultures from this unified nation. Mondstadt is really weird. It’s German, but their own god doesn’t have a name rooted in a Germanic language. Zhongli and Ei are obviously referencing their languages, but the closest thing to Venti is wind (vind). But, wouldn’t you know, Venti stems from the Latin word Ventus, who was also a Roman god apart of the *Venti* who were wind deities.
Just want to say that I like your theory videos alot. Your research and the way you explain things does ring a bell. Also I like your cheery tone while explaining them, it is entertaining. I listen to your videos while on work, just like listening to radio broadcast. Thank you for resuming and theory crafting Genshin lore so far. I can't grasp it when I play the game, I'm kinda a messy player and already get confused alot by the game map and location.
Same same same! Your voice is both cheerful and soothing. End up rewatching, or re listening, to your videos while I do chores. You'd make a great audiobook voice actor 👍
25:53 DEEP DIVE INTO VENTI? I AM LISTENING!!! ventis such an interesting and mysterious char which id LOVE watching a video abt to understand more, esp his connection and importance to the main lore 👀
I left the game after version 2.5 but Enkanomiya stuck to me dearly, I have its OST playlist saved and would listen to it every now and then. I rewatched your video today and it reminded me of how great this game is and I returned and continued playing after 2 years. P.S: your rant about how the timelines don't align is really funny. Keep doing your thing Ashikai sensei.
When Enka first opened up, I was kinda whatever about it, but I'm a completionist so of course I was going to get everything. As I did more I realized how beautifully they captured the melancholy ambiance in this place, and the color palette they chose is just beautiful as well. Once I got to the shades, I was really enjoying myself. I love getting these intricate bits of interesting lore like in the summer archipelago. Enka has easily become my absolute favorite "filler" region we've had so far
Love this video! It gives a new dimension on how weird everything in Enkanomiya is! There really is an insane amount of Greek names and their lore. One thing that I found cool is in the names of the achievements of Enkanomiya. They basically have one for Kairos, Hesperus and Phosphorus (maybe two other shades?). Phosphorus is the Morning Star and the ancient Roman name for Morning Star is… Lucifer. So yeah I’m currently down in the lore rabbit hole crafting theories lol
So maybe it's a bit more literal than it seems, what if Abrax was a weakened primordial god? Being the only one who had 'seen the sun' if rather than people as a whole only a handful like him and maybe erebus were extremely long lived, then it's possible that enkanomiya had been in the dark for a lot, looooooot longer than just one generation. Also been reading those books again to try and help piece together the timeline a bit more and something caught my attention, volume 2 is a pretty decent source as far as placing things in time but it begins by saying that before even the primordial there were 7 sovereigns, dragon-lords (perhaps tying to the nord myth about newer gods taking the power left behind by old ones?), and that after the primordial beat them he and his 4 shades (so 5 total, abyss?) created flora and fauna as well as humanity (so what did the sovereigns rule, the Seele?), and it ruled over humanity only caring to make them happy until 'The second throne of the heavens came' which... that might be celestia? Also can we talk about the fact that Kairos' true name is exactly one letter off from Astaroth? Sorry I know there is a -lot- to talk about in enkanomiya, take your time.
@@kasandorayuki5215 Whichever volume 2 was from the enkanomiya collection, I read them directly from the in-game archive and they don't have the book titles there anymore
"Is it wise to allow a moment's ambition to dominate one's entire life?" was reminded of this quote (can't remember who said it. Traveler? Dain?) when you talk about Chronos and Kairos
Traveller's quote about visions, I too was reminded of this quote. Really do wonder how Sinshades and Visions are connected as they are both related to a snapshot in time where one's expressing strong emotions.
This is a great recap, though in case you missed them, here are some things I found while doing a lore dive myself: In the achievements Kairos's name is paired with two others, Phosphoros and Hesperus, assuming these aren't regular gods, they might be more of Phanes's Shades. What's curious about that is Phosphoros means Light/lightbringer and Hesperus means Evening/Evening star, if they are shades this implies they're counterparts, light and dark. Which would mean the 4th shade would be a counterpart to Kairos. The Dragon lords all have descendants who are presumably of great power. Kairos's real name is Istaroth. And that the 7 dragon lords were likely masters of the 7 elements. Now with all of this in mind, I propose a couple of theories: 1. The bodies or powers of the 7 dragons were used to make the 7 Gnosis, and later, the visions. Given how both have their origins from Celestia themselves, it's not unlikely. 2. The counterpart to Kairos is the God of Space, a safe guess given what we know, as to who they are, that's a different theory. 3. The Sustainer is the 4th shade of Phanes, a bit of a leap I know, but given what we've seen of her abilities, it's possible. She uses near pitch black cubes to absorb pretty much everything they touch, a quality of Blackholes which would fall under the dominion of Space, she has the ability to create portals, something that's usually associated with Spatial manipulation, and finally, if we assume Kairos is an anemo god herself, then her counterpart would be a geo god, which would explain the cubic nature of her attacks. 4. Dvalin and Azhdaha or Morax are descendants of these ancient dragons, which explains their vast power compared to others of their kind. Morax is believed to be the strongest of the seven archons, Azhdaha was able to make Morax struggle in their clash, and Dvalin is supposedly as strong as Barbatos. It is said that the Hydro dragon's descendent has a human form, which leads me to believe in two possible candidates, Kokomi or the Hydro Archon, we don't have much info on the Hydro Archon, so Kokomi's the current best guess
It is rumored that "The war of the second throne" is more likely to be the battle between the primordial one and the second who came all those years ago and that that's the cause that Enkanomiya accidentaly sinked, maybe this fits a bit better in the timeline. It also makes sense considering that Enkanomiya was a part of the unified civilization and that that civilization was ruled over by the primordial one
So, I was re-reading Before Sun and Moon, and discovered a bunch of interesting things about the “sage who saw the sun” and the timeline of Enka. Basically, it is said specifically that only after that sage died did the sage Abrax “monopolize the flame” in the helios, meaning that Abrax was not that original sage. This opens up a significant period of time where the people of Enka could have lived first in mostly darkness, then with large torches built by the first sage. Then, surely at least a century had to pass during the building of the massive helios. But only after the helios had been built was the “ban” discovered, which to me places all these events significantly before the archon war. So, my conclusion is that time has to move different in Enkanomiya, likely about 10 times slower. Thus, from the perspective of the surface, they lived 1000 years in mostly darkness, probably about 2000 years with large torches including while the helios was being built, and then 700 years of the sun children and likely 800-ish years under Orabashi. This adds up to Enka falling 6500 years ago during the war between the 1st and 2nd thrones which I do not think is the same thing as the archon war, and then Orabashi falling at the beginning of the Archon war ~ 3500 years ago and Watatsumi island being built and inhabited 2000 years ago. The evidence/explanation for this is below. in the section “The Parable of the Sun” I think it’s important to note that it says “In a dark cavern, there lived a group of people who had never seen the light.” Which means that even the elderly there hadn’t seen it. Next, it says that there was a sage who had seen the sun and was able to tell everyone “what life under the sun was like” which to me indicates that he had definitely been to the surface. There are 2 possibilities here: 1. He was born in Enkanomiya, but was able to travel to the surface in a time before the seal was placed 2. He lives on the surface of Byakukoku but was from a long-lived species. I think this is more likely Next, it says that he “lit a torch- and thus did the people come to worship the flame, believing it to be the sun” It doesn’t make sense for them to not know about fire or light at all because they surely would have died out if that was the case, so my best guess is that the sage created a large torch (like the olympic torch) that shone over a significant area, and then more were built to light up inhabited areas and ward off the dragonheirs. After that- and this is key- it says “When the sage died, someone would monopolize the flame” So, the helios wasn’t built until after the safe died!!! This means that Abrax was not the sage, and also opens up the possibility that the people of Enkanomiya lived using these large torches for a while. So, Enkanomiya could have easily been in near-complete darkness for 100 years or more so that no one left had seen the sun except the sage, then they could have lived with the torches for who knows how long, before Abrax finally built the helios. Now, I do wonder how long it took to build the helios, since it is very large and in medieval times there were cathedrals that took centuries to build. Since Abrax is also called a sage, perhaps he was of the same long-lived race as the first sage, and lived long enough to see it built over a few centuries? Regardless, it was completed, and only then did the people of Enkanomiya try to return to the surface and discover the ban. So that firmly places all of this significantly before Orobashi fell right? How could the seal have weakened in like 50 years?! This seems to indicate that the sunchildren ruled for long enough for the ban to weaken, which to me can only be explained by time moving different in Enkanomiya. So, how much slower? Obviously idk, but currently the estimated time experienced by the Enkanomiyans is 100 (pre sage) + 200 (designing and building helios)+ 70 (sunchildren) + 80 (rule of Orobashi and ascension prep) with the last number being very iffy. That adds up to 450 years, and since this timeline ends 2000 years ago, if the ratio is 10:1 that puts it at 4500 years, putting the fall of Enka around 6500 years ago before Zhongli was born. This also gives Orabashi a 700 year window at the beginning of the Archon war to have fallen and also doesn’t have him ascend until the end of the war. Now, this would obviously indicate that the 2nd throne of the heavens and the accompanying war was not the archon war. I actually think this makes sense, because I believe that Celestia is the 2nd throne and that they came from outside the world and overthrew The Primordial One. They have ruled the world ever since, and all the times about “the gods walking the earth” was after this takeover. The Archon war was just a manufactured conflict by Celestia to get the gods to fight much later on. Oh, and this also explains why Celestia wants to hide this fact- they don’t want anyone to know that there was a time before them! Everyone knows that there was a time before the Archon war, so that can’t be the great secret right?! Okay okay, so basically, I have concluded that the only way to reconcile the timeline is to have time move more slowly in Enkanomiya. The only alternative is if everyone lived lives 10x as long, which has basically the same effect, or if the seal upon Enka was specifically and rapidly (~50 yrs) weakened during the early days of the Archon war. This latter case would either require the early people of Tevyat to have lived longer lives- which is similar to what the Bible says about early humans- and/or there to have been very long periods of time where they just lived with large torches. I hope this all makes sense! If anyone actually reads this whole thing, thank you and I hope it was worth your time haha
Not disagreeing with your time analysis but I will point out that a parable is a little different from the rest of the book because it is less a historical retelling, and more the recording of a legend, and doesn't actually disprove the idea that abrax in the sage are the same. If you assume that the torch is just a metaphor for the Helios, then yes someone did monopolize that torch after he died. The nobles enacted a plan to kill abrax and then they monopolized the Helios. This is why I said that it's very possible they could be the same person. It's also equally possible that they are not the same person but I don't want to exclude the possibility yet. Given that the nobles also discredited abrax's accomplishments by warping the story of the Helios into something divinely created instead of invented by a human, we can easily see how a much more straightforward less magical story can become more mystical and mythological over time as it's retold. I don't think that the archon war was a great secret and I get the feeling that I wasn't clear enough about my connection between the second throne and the archon war. For starters, we don't actually have a point in time in which we can place the coming of the second throne because it could have happened at any point up to the archon war. However the reason why I'm focused on the archon war is specifically because I don't understand why the war happened in the first place. Why was there a sudden need to change the entire leadership of the world into having just the rule of the seven, unless there was a change of leadership in the heavens? To me, that possibility alone is enough for me to at least suspect that the archon war could have been something that came about because of the second throne, because otherwise it implies that there could have possibly been a third throne, or is it the primordial one did defeat the second throne the first time, but that the second throne tried again and this time was successful, idk. In any case I'm going to stick with the archon war for now just because we have at least some form of relative date for it and we're already working with too many unknown variables for my liking.
@@Ashikai Thanks for the awesome response! Yeah the possibility of the phrase “monopolize the flame” referring to the nobles who took over did occur to me, but it still seems a little strange to me to refer to the helios as a flame. However, the fact that it is a parable does make any over analysis of it pretty risky huh:/ As for the 2nd throne and Archon war connection.. since all of this stuff is extremely speculative I get wanting to simply the timeline a bit and have more concrete dates. That being said, I really don’t think the arrival of the 2nd throne is what started The Archon War, and I’ll tell u why. Based on my (over)analysis of “Before Sun and Moon”, it sounds to me like before the arrival of the 2nd throne, there was only the Primordial One and the 4 shades. No other gods are mentioned, and Enkanomiyans didn’t worship any other gods until Orabashi arrived much later. But we know that there were many gods roaming the earth for a long tine, so what gives? Well, I believe that these Gods only appeared after the 2nd throne took over, which would mean that a god like Zhongli would have “descended” AFTER the 2nd throne appeared. That’s why I put that event so early and so far removed from the Archon War. I also remember there being some line- maybe from Enjou?- that mentioned there being “a time before the gods roamed the earth” which further supports this idea As for why the Archon War started.. we don’t really know. But I don’t think it needs to be something as dramatic as a new leader in Celestia. It could be as simple as Celestia wanting to identify the strongest gods out there, and then use them as proxies to rule the world. Or perhaps they legitimately just only had room for 7 more gods in Celestia and all the other gods fought over those spots kinda on their own..? Idk, but there are a myriad of reasons why it could have been started. Of course, this is all just speculation and over analysis, so believe whatever you want! I’m sure we’ll find out more soon!
I felt your suffering the second you started talking about the timeline. *pure pain. Even figuring out the current timeline for traveller’s chronological journey is difficult…*
omg i love the humour- resident boughkeeper isn't around to dain-splain things- LIKE THE CLASS AND BEAUTY IN THAT LMAO also I've noticed that your editing is getting better and better, so awesome job on that part! :D
Spears on Enkanomia looks like Childe's hydrospear. Childe's teacher left Enkanomia and jumped to timeline where it goes much faster? Probably not but I like it
Although Enkanomiya is a massive information dump, you gotta admit the area is absolutely gorgeous and I almost fell asleep to the music while playing. It's just so calming. It would be nice if Mihoyo does voice over for Enka quest to make people more engaged. I try to understand the lore behind it while playing but I lost track most of the time.
I just finished Enkanomia and was so excited to finally watch these videos! Hearig that Khanerei'ah visited them and were looking for a BOOK, definitely peaked my interest. Because this isn't the first time they have! So, allow be to go into a little bit of my own analysis I've done. Waaaay back at the beginning, you'll remember in Lisa's story quest an Abyss Mage stole the book "The Pale Princess and the Six Pygmies". Now, we still only have the first volume, HOWEVER what we know so far is that it's about "The Land of Night and the Moonlight Forest". Not only that, but here's a quote from the book: "Everyone in the Kingdom of the Moonlight Forest was born with fair skin, light-colored hair, and bright blue eyes. Perhaps the constant lack of sunlight and the nourishment of the moonlight was the reason for their beauty, giving them an appearance different from the abhorrent creatures lurking at the edge of the forest." Now, that description of the people DEFINITELY fits Kokomi, and I can't remember exactly who says it, but in Enkanomia I'm certain I remember one of the shades mention that the surface people were amazed by their complexion and they put it down to the lack of sunlight. Plus "abhorrent creatures" does sound like it could be describing the Vishaps. Now, this could just be a coincidence. However it's just one more link between Enkanomia and Mondstadt. We heard all the potential connections to Venti specifically in the video, but there is one more. The last one actually brings us back to the Dragonbone Orb. You see, there a hidden quest after you obtain the orb, where you sell it to one of the three Souvenir Shops. And out of those shops, the only one who seems to actually know what the Dragonbone Orb might be surprisingly isn't Netsuke no Gen Crafts in Inazuma , but With Wind Comes Glory in Mondstadt! Quotes from Marjorie: "Huh, isn't this what the bards called the "Fretnaught Fruit... To think that it really exists... So its real name is the Dragonbone Orb... Why, it has abilities straight out of a fairy tale!" She even knows the best way to store the orb too! I don't know why, but Enkanomia has a scary amount of connections to Mondstadt, and I don't know exactly what it means, but I hope some more people look into this because I haven't seen anyone really talking about it. (Edit, one other connection, being that the God of Time, is only mentioned in one other place. And guess where that is...)
Huh. That connection with the fruit because I don't like to think about the princess and the pygmy book because it's very cryptic lol But you're right it does kind of have a lot of similarities to Enkanomiya. Interesting, interesting...
~ 4:50 I think the term "nobles" is pretty valid, considering that hierarchies are established when groups/communities are formed. Like, they might not be what we picture when we think of nobles, but privilege is always relative to culture and community. So, maybe they're richer or more popular in comparison to others within that community. Also, hierarchies are more likely to be established whenever a community is in dire need of leadership in order to survive.
Crazy bit of Lore as one of the 3 shades of Aberaku quest said this "When the Sky Kingdom Crashed into the bottomless depths, the people were scored by dragons [Note: later rename Vishaps], and thus did I - Yes, 'twas I - begin building the Helios to save us all from our fate". Meaning that the one nation of humans were SKY people. Potentially meaning continent we now know as Teyvat fell to the sea level and Enkanomiya lands fell even further down.😵💫 So the Battle Pass story might be referring to this one civilization of the sky before the Invader known now as "Celestia" came and started the War with the Primordial One to cause this first fall. The people of Enkanomiya didn't know of the Archon war until Orobashi no Mikoto/Watatsumi Omikami came and dethroned the last SunChild thousands of years later. There is a chance this war with the Primordial One vs "Celestia" after the 7 Dragons were defeated was even before Morax was born 6000 years ago. Yeah, time be wacky in Enkanomiya! It's like its own pocket dimension.... It's the same thing with the Pocket of the Abyss Ajax fell into... you know where Childe's 3 months in the Abyss was only 3 days in Teyvat... 😵💫Another theory might be that even the people of Enkanomiya where sealed when their lands fell into the ocean. Thus they woke up LONG after their civilization had been destroyed and the weakening the Primordial One power seal allowed to awaken rather then be awoken by the Primordial One. If Venti is Kairos or a son to Kairos as a seed of wind in this world, well his "absenteeism" makes a little more sense, he is there when a moment to strike is needed. and explain why he "sleeps" when not needed. It always bothered me why Venti falls into a "coma" more than once know without an explanation. He woke up for Vennessa and he woke up for Dvalin or should I say for the Traveller..... 🤔
The way in which you create these theory/explanation videos feel more like a friend telling you about their favourite video game lore instead of some rigid fact discourse. Much appreciated content ♥️
Idk why but I have a certain feeling that the primordial one is still alive somewhere but is in danger of dying My theory/thought (which has no base at all atm) is that Dainsleif, just like with paimon might be related to the primordial one (as them being her "shades") and that the "her" that Dainsleif's refering to is the primordial one. How? Maybe Dainsleif is a descended of one of the shades? The only reason I have to that is that both paimon and Dsinsleif seem to be more related to space (their capes and other stuff) and that both the primordial one and Dainsleif seem to care more about humans than other stuff. "Some say a few are chosen and the rest are drags but I say we humans have our humanity!" I know it's waaaaaay too early for this theory/thought and that it doesn't have much of a base to stand on + there's not information for it, but I just thought this might be an interesting idea.
Just something that I thought of when I was thinking about how since the nether realm is a different realm (where Enkanomiya fell) thus time can pass differently. Assuming that time moves slower here than in Teyvat, all biological beings would technically age slower resulting in their lifespans being WAY longer in comparison to people/beings from Teyvat which may explain the inconsistency in the timeline (a bit). Going back to the theory about how Kaeya may be the crown prince from Khaenriah and the only thing which made this theory inconsistent would be the time.Given Khaenriah could access Enkanomiya before they made it back to the surface could indicate that they themselves existed in a realm which is connected to the one Enkanomiya is in. This could mean time may have moved slowly even here, which could explain how his father survived long enough with a plan for Khaenriah and thus leaving Kaeya in Mondstadt on his mission. Edit : In context to one of your previous videos about how Genshin and Honkai are related, we see Dvalin show up on one of the screens of the group of operatives who were monitoring other universes in hopes they may find the solution to defeating/escaping the Honkais, but it was concluded that none of them escape Honkais (which should then also include the Genshin Universe since we know it was being monitored as well). As from what Enjou said, Celestia is very probable to "not being from this world" meaning they do not come from Teyvat. What if these Honkai beings took a different approach of getting rid of humanity, since in the Honkai universe they can fight and resist them (which to an oppressor/obliterator I imagine would be quite a headache) ? What if Celestia consists of just Honkais who came and disrupted the rule of the Primordial gods to take control of humanity and in due course exterminate them (Which may explain how the unified nation which Enkanomiya was a part of may have come to an end) ? People who may hold the power to fight off against Celestia should they learn of the truth are given visions and can be "ascended" to Celestia, which in this case I assume would be a prison of sorts (reference to how Vanessa successfully revolted against the noble rule and emerged victorious and then she ascended to Celestia) ? Only thing that I cannot seem to fit into the equation would be the Archons or the other godly beings (like Orobashi) and their origins/ how they come into being. Also since we know the sky is fake, and looking at how Celestia obliterated the civilisation in Dragonspine by dropping the skyfrost nial and the underground ancient civilisation of Tsurumi by dropping something which caused the fog we encounter when we first get introduced to Tsurumi, could it be that Celestia is trying to erase all traces of the ancient civilistaions or rather the truth of the world ? (from the unified culture taking into consideration how the architecture is similar in these places inculding the murals ; I would argue these civilisations rather branched off from the unified civilisation and hence would have some idea about the world during the rule of the Primordial Gods).
I took a really good amount of time just observing Enkanomiya and trying to get all the greek references there. There is A LOT there, and the most surpring part is that all of it is "optional content". After learning that Kairos is the Thousand Winds, I teleported back to Mondstadt and went to the secret island to see if there would be any references there, and I found out that the symbol on the floor is similar to the symbol of the Spiral Abyss' entrance. I don't know if they are the same symbol, or what the heck that means, it is just something that left me more confused than before lmao. Funny how Mondstadt is the nation associated the most with the Abyss and one of the sades (Kairos). It also makes me wonder if the things in the secret island were broken and thrown there on purpose, like Pilos' peak (Orobashi also didn't like mentions to Kairos among the people). The other thing about Enkanomiya is the huge amount of seelies down there, meaning they fell down with Enkanomiya itself 6000+ years ago(?), which for me is weird, because I think the Seelies themselves represent one of the demons of Ars Goetiah (Seere -> guided people to hidden treasures; maybe it is a name pun like Eris = Arisu = Alice?), which would mean they existed at the same time as Morax? Idk, I left Enkanomiya with more questions than answers haha It is amazing how Genshin's hidden lore is also giving importance to old content that people won't remember that much, like Lisa's Story quest. We know now why the Abyss is looking for forbidden books on all nations, and why Lisa chose to mark that specific book with Elemental Energy to be able to track it. Now I want a Razor story quest pt2 with more Andrius lore and a Varka introduction. But it is very sad that all 4* characters are getting the hangout treatment now, and the 5*s get the gourmet hangout treatment as "story quests", and all the lore is hidden on sidequests, like Enkanomiya.
Great video as always! Some random feelings I got : - The duality of Chronos/Kairos reminds me the duality of Belzebul/Baal with eternity and transient. - The 7 childs got some specific personality that reminds me the 7 sins A child who wants a bigger tower than Helios A child who just looks at women body A child who sings when he wants A child who stays in bed A child who wants to know everything even the future (Sorry forgot the last 2) I know it's easy 7, like the 7 archons too can be associate with the sins but meh that's what I experienced talking to each of them.
on the note of the anemoi, i have a theory i believe dvalin is a false wind, you see in the mythology of anemoi, it refers to 4 seperate characters (boreas, zephyrus, notus and eurus) they represent the four cardinal directions and the 4 seasons, interestingly there's a character in mondstat that fits that, the wolf of the north, boreas who also happens to wield both anemo and cryo (fun fact, the roman equivalents of these four are aquilo, favonius, auster and vulturnus, when means that the weapon aquila favonia roughly translates to north west and the organisation "the knights of favonius" means knights of the west). the number 4 in cryo also has a position in genshin since there are 4 "energy elements" (i don't think their actually called that but that's what i like to call them) being pyro, cryo, electro and hydro. these can be linked to the seasons, pyro is the hot summer, cryo is the cold winter, hydro is the post-thaw spring and electro is autumn since that's the only one left ¯\_(ツ)_/¯. that means that there were 4 winds, one of which was boreas, the lion of the south would represent summer in relation to the anemoi, which is interesting since the ragnvindr clan (diluc's clan) was one of the notable allies in vanessa's rebellion (vanessa being the first liontooth knight). the falcon of the west is conflicted mainly between the entire favonius foundation or vanessa, but since it's described as a flag when they talk about how it was defeated, i'm tempted to believe it's the knights (not to mention that their name is the romanized version of the anemoi of the west) and i believe vanessa to be the lion of the south and that she was a pyro vision user. with those ideas in mind, since boreas and vanessa both seem to be heavily influenced by their seasonal element you would think the same of the west and east winds, since the falcon is a group of people there's a pretty decent reason for them not to be heavily attuned to hydro but they are positioned in the middle of a lake with the only connection to land being a single bridge (seems like an awful position in a war but if their heavily attuned to water then it would make sense). dvalin on the other hand is supposedly the genshin equivalent of eurus the god of autumn and supposedly electro, but he isn't, instead being oriented towards sheer wind, although in ancient greek mythology eurus didn't have a season since the seasonal cycle back then consisted entirely of summer, winter and spring but genshin has these *four* elements that can swirl with anemo, while electro feels out of place since it isn't common in nature, it is still considered as such. so all of this unpacking is leading to my conclusion, that dvalin isn't one of the four winds but instead a replacement for the true east wind, the first reason is that he is much stronger then the other winds, being able to take on durin alone after the other winds failed to defeat it and although he is on the same level as boreas in the weekly bosses, one of them is beating them down until they screw off and the other is popping a couple of pimples. next is that although we already know he doesn't use any electro, he also has no affinity for autumn (if autumn even happens in teyvat since we only know about it from what npcs say), lastly is that he existed before the archons as the elemental dragon of wind, which not only builds on my earlier point of him being a lot stronger but also that he is at the same level as, if not higher then venti so i believe his role as the dragon of the west is a sort of favour to venti and there was someone else in that role before him.
I'm watching this video at 1am so I'm tired and don't have the brain cells to type a whole reddit post, but I'm interested in seeing someone look deeper into the venti and kairos connection, including the nameless island quest we did AGES AGO in mondstadt.
Please consider doing a video on Venti! I always found that sneaky bard to be the most secretive out of every character. I also think it's telling that even though we're two years into the game, his story quest is still on part 1 while Zhongli's and Ei's have already gotten to No2 (Mihoyo really wanted to be done with Ei asap). Also I'm Greek and I want to thank you so much for using Greek names in your analysis and recap. It's much easier to make connections when I have the original names in mind instead of their Inazuman versions. Thank you for going through the trouble of making this video! I love your work and your videos reignite my interest in the story of the game. PS: If you ever need help finding something in Greek or need to look through Greek sources to clarify something I'd be happy to help!
I've accepted that whomever the writers are for this story don't do anything without purpose; note that in the books they very purposely point out the word 'moment' when explaining the time god existing in all 3 phases of time as a 'moment'. STOOOP i typed that early on for you to only mention it down the line in the video haha. I have the same conclusion about gold - after we found out who just Gold is during the second act of Albedos story i refuse to see Gold as anything other than a martyr for Khanriah just like Orobashi. With how Celestial is portrayed thus far the act of a martyr is definitely something that would be written into their style, and something tells me that the Dendro archon was also a martyr. Just like you my mind raced with speculation and timelines along with how im confident Zhongli knows more than he leads on being part dragon he is one of the original inhabitants of Ark. I have so much that i put together after that lore dump but also alot more questions - I hope you touch on the 'Seeds' aspect of the books. I know the Vishap experiments were to touch on the blood coral but the mention of the seeds and their elemental affinity really lead me down a rabbit hole of the Visions originating from dragonkins and not god made - Zhongli didnt even really know about visions and Ei doesn't know their working either. After reading about how the mother dragons are able to hold multiple seeds i just spiraled with specilation.
when you pointed out that kairos is similar to venti in his description, my mouth just went AGAPE. and theres always that one moment where i go :O "OOOOH" in your videos lmao. great as always
I'm not too sure the Second Throne War is actually the Archon War, the former is described as more of an invasion of enemy gods that destroyed the world, while the latter was more of a contest set up by Celestia to see who would become the Seven. This would make Enka way older thus warranting an explanation for the time paradox even more, I think that expanded lifetimes or a messed up flow of time are pretty good explanations, after all Enka is said to have a ley line disorder and has "nether realm" properties, aside from the presence of Kairos
Did you know that during the Aberaku quest you can talk to a maiden at the Watatsumi shrine called Aberaku? And after the quest she is no longer called Aberaku... She even has dialogues that Aberaku would say, like talking about the Helios tower. Me and one of my friend experienced this.
Hello, I know this isn’t particularly connected to Ekonoimia, but I was recently rewatching the genshin world building videos and I noticed something. You mentioned that the stars were places in an mondola pattern in the sky when you look straight up, in the recent albedo/dragon spine event from last patch if you look closely at the cutscenes where you first interact with the imposter albedo, right before it gets stabbed as it is gaining or charging some kind of attack. It looks exactly like the pattern of stars you see in the sky, and because It was created by (forgot her name lol) I thought they might be connected in some way. Just something interesting I wanted to share, even though I’m a bit late. Keep up the awesome videos!
i saw a theory based on barbatos and istaroth: istaroth, The God of Time, was worshipped in Mondstadt (In the past together with Barbatos himself),and in Enkanomiya (as Istaroth was the only one who helped the people of Enkanomiya when it sunk long before the archon war) Istaroth also had control over the winds thus the phrase “the winds of time”, is usually seen around (like the nameless island and raiden character story). Not only that Istaroth is one of the four shades created by the Primordial One. The Primordial One is the progenitor god who came to teyvat from another world who battled the seven , The Primordial One is the progenitor god who came to teyvat from another world who battled the seven and earth for the sake of humanity. Also, the Primordial One might be the “creator” talked about in traveller who has “yet to return”. so what if barbatos is actually one of the strongest in teyvat? considering the fact that he came from Istaroth and Istaroth came from the Primordial One, what if Barbatos has some connection to the Primordial One and may be the one able to call upon the Primordial One to return to Teyvat and see how corrupted Celestia has become (due to them destroying Khaenri’ah). If this is true, this may be what Dain is referring to in his line “We will defy this world from the power from beyond”
9:00 I like to imagine Orobashi agreed to be a god because... Weirdly specific, but there's this running joke where people with social anxiety suddenly stop having anxiety if they're helping their friend. Like "I can't order food for myself because I'm too nervous to talk to the waitress BUT IF MY FRIEND DIDN'T GET ENOUGH ICE IN HER WATER I AM CALLING THAT WAITRESS IMMEDIATELY" lmaoo. Point being, Orobashi was losing but he found these small weak humans and it's fun to think this gave him some amount of purpose, or even bravery, much like that anxious friend.
I love your theory vids. I'm new to this place and it has already covered a lot of the things I think about when I play the game. The active way you explain things is amazing abd that friendly cheery lively tone of voice makes the person, or me at least, want to sit and listen. Better than any school lecture tbh imo. Enkanomiya is a very mysterious interesting place. It gave a lot of info to ponder on. Since it's connected to the Abyss, I half expected dain to show up too but alas, he didn't...
Can we all appreciate this woman’s effort, time and skill put into this video??? Every theory/speculation you make are absolute masterpieces (I also love your voice btw)
I like to think that Enkonomiya people were a primordial civilization but they fell underground, way before Morax's birth, and were in stuck in time for a few millennia's, until Orobashi came there, and took the remaining survivors to the surface.
I just about wrapped up Enkanomiya today (yeah I took my sweet time) I don't know why you hate "Before Sun and Moon", reading it practically gave me a loregasm. I understand why Orobashi needed to die after reading it. It basically confirms Celestia overthrew what was once basically a paradise for humans, also confirms Teyvat is an ark, an ark which CAPSIZED at some point in its history. Followers of this channel may best appreciate the significance of this little detail. All in all, it was fantastic. It answered a lot of questions, and raised twice as many, which is what we want right? Right? That's basically CONTENT for this channel... Hang in there Ashikai! You can piece this puzzle together, I believe in you!
Wonderful recap, Teacher. This area is so interesting that i, when first entering it, felt that it warped space or it was displaced from the world and it's history. Also, that timeline may be distorted but it's a good start.
Personally I haven't gotten to finish Enkanomiya yet, my grandmother passed away recently so I haven't had the energy/will, but I played for a bit. I just hope Mihoyo doesn't remove the area as per usual so I can't ever finish it. My take away from this video though, is that Venti is suss, but I've thought Venti is suss for some time. He's supposed to be pretty much the "happy go lucky" trope, yet somehow he has the power to become one of the archons and still retains the ability to guide souls after losing his "chess piece" and despite allegedly considering the traveller as a friend and knowing the travellers goals he has not offered up any information that can assist us regarding either Khaenri'ah or our sibling.
27:57 It's not the first time they use a deity's name as a mortal's in Genshin. In Dragonspine, you can find an ice Lawachurl called Ukko, who we later learn is a cursed priest from the era of Sal Vindagnyr. Ukko "is the god of the sky, weather, harvest and thunder in Finnish mythology" (source: Wikipedia) In Honkai Star Rail we meet a character called Sampo. The Sampo in Finnish Mythology "is a magical device or object described in many different ways that was constructed by the blacksmith Ilmarinen and that brought riches and good fortune to its holder (akin to the horn of plenty [cornucopia] of Greek mythology). When the Sampo was stolen, Ilmarinen's homeland fell upon hard times. He sent an expedition to retrieve it, but in the ensuing battle it was smashed and lost at sea" (source: again, Wikipedia) It's not unlike miHoYo to take these kinds of names and name their characters as such, but it's always fun to speculate on the relationships between their names and their mythological counterparts (if any exists)
Being named after a god isn't unusual, yeah. However, they're being named after "primordial gods" specifically. If you want to build a creation myth around Phanes, but then name normal people after the primordial gods involved with Phanes, then I'm gonna raise an eyebrow at it. Using the names of the sons of Apollo? No biggie. Notable historical figures like Spartacus? Fine. Gods from a latter pantheon like Hestia, Hera, etc? No sweat. But Erebus? Abraxas? Chronus? Ananke? Kaos? It's that first pantheon of Orphic gods that I'm confused over.
@@Ashikai Yeah, that's true. And now I'm thinking that it's the first instance of this happening? Honestly, Enkanomiya answered some questions but left us with many, many more.
the problem with "time moves slower in enkanomiya" that means when the traveler go back to tevyat after expedition on enkanomiya, time would have passed a lot.
Honestly I think Mihoyo/hoyoverse doesn’t always have some grand symbolism behind its names (it definitely does sometimes, but not always) for example, using Favonius for the knights, which was the Latin version of the north wind, when a lot of the naming is Greek (Venti, Anemo, Boreas, all the stuff mentioned in this video) sometimes I feel like the naming just comes down to what sounds right, which is why Ashikai’s video’s are so cool because she takes the time to try and parse it all out. Anyway desperately waiting for the next semester so I can start taking a Homeric Greek class and become even more nerdy about Genshin lore. Also, I kind of wonder if Celestia has some sort of weakness, and there’s a hint to it in Before Sun and Moon, which could be why Celestia wanted Orobashi killed for reading it, and why Khan’ria was searching for it. Maybe the hint could have been buried in translation or linguistic drift? Another note I had about Enkanomiya is how there was often an electro abyss lector or mage next to the Sunchildren’s tombs, which almost makes me think that khan’ria had some connection with the Sunchildren specifically? Because it kinda seemed like they were guarding the tombs.
See, speculative and non-solid as it is, I have a much greater understanding of Enkanomiya because of this video. Whereas when I I first experienced it, I had no idea of what anything was or meant. I quite literally just quest-progressed and didn't understand the whole way.😂 So, thank you for this.
It would make sense for time to be measured differently in Enkanomiya for various reasons. Enkanomiya was once a civilization that lived in the surface and fell to the underground, it is said in the book that after the land fell the citizen divided themselves into small nomad groups that had to constantly escape the vishaps, some generations passed in complete darkness, how did the first underground generations meassure time in complete darkness after having lived under the sun? also, some generations or time passes before they construct the artificial light, because it is said in the book that from one of these small nomad groups, only one contain a person who had seen the sun, this person gave the knowledge of the sun to one of his disciples, and it is this disciple the one who constructs the tower for the artificial sun, after the tower is constructed it is the first time in at least a couple generations that the people can finally reside in only one place, as the light from the tower prevented the vishaps from getting close to the new city, leading way for the fighting over power now that there is more of a society in place, still, now they had a light cycle, there was hours of light and hours of darkness, but how can we assume that these cycles were the same as they are on the surface? days could have been longer and night shorter to avoid vishaps getting to close at night, even if they did a 24 hour day cycle, how are we to know when a year ends or begins, There are no seasons in enkanomiya, so it is very hard to assume they meassure time in the same way as they do in the surface.
Super late, but u/lovomileen on reddit put up a nicely organized post about Venti around the same time as this video! One of the things that really stood out to me watching this after that post was that Venti has a line in the Mondstadt story line about knowing every song from the past, present, or future - which felt eerily close to the description for Kronos. I'm no lore expert but that in combination with his Hello line, Feelings about Ascension: Conclusion line, and the dichotomy of his Chat: Ballads and About Venti line makes me feel like he (or the thousand winds as a whole) are more of a counterpart to the god or time rather than an aspect or branch of her. Welp. Either way, great video! Time for me to go watch the corrections and part 2
This is the only correct way to explain tons of Genshin lore. It's why I usually dont pay attention to it, but Enkanomiya is such a curveball of content I needed to find something.
There was something in the quest that was said, I can’t remember what since it’s been so long now, that gave me the idea that Enkanomiya was actually it’s own pocket dimension separate from both the Abyss and the surface world - yet accessible to both (and even other unknown dimensions) through special portals which is how monsters exist there. Also something about the Vishaps, as the first sentient inhabitants of Teyvat, being purposefully imprisoned in this pocket dimension. If I remembered that correctly and it really is a completely different dimension/reality, then that might explain the time stuff.
I'd like to point out that in Enkanomyia time is definitely moves not the same like in overworld. The thing on top is not just the big lomp, it actually switches the day/night cycle in this place In fact, Enkanomyia is only available through a strange portal, which is almost like it is actually was whipped out of existence very literally, so it landed in sea of Quanta, aka the Abyss And the name for dragons is WishUp so yes i would like to think that Enkanomyia is in the Abyss as well as Khaenri'ah. And wishups are honkai beasts Not without your help i just imagine the whole Teywat now as a floating universe torn off from the tree or rising on top of it and now literally being between two trees whose god are fighting for power or maybe Celestia gods are just local quanta sea warlords or something
This video is like a year old, but in regards to the timeline stuff i heard of a theory based on the event quest we had ages ago (with xiao, yelan, itto, shinobu, yanfei; the one with the time stuff where they were stuck in a weird domain) about how everything is just a bunch of domains. like, that group had gotten stuck in an unknown domain, teyvat is one big giant domain, our teapot realm is a domain, and enkanomiya is in it's own domain, etc. and we know from that event quest that time works differently across domains, so that could potentially fill gaps in the enkanomiya timeline you made where things just aren't making sense. the timeline doesn't fit right because those separate places/domains were moving through time at different rates.
Edit: The Muses also lived on a mountain called Mount Helicon, Helicon having the root word Helix, which means Spiral, which is... quite the coincidence. There is a better allegory/parallel for Istaroth than Kairos himself in terms of a goddess of time. I think MHY naming Istaroth as Kairos is a very cheeky misdirection tbh, or maybe they are mixing multiple entities of similar aspects into one, but Mnemosyne is actually a lot closer to the apparent actions that Istaroth has taken in record. Mnemosyne is the goddess of memorisation with the purpose of preserving history and stories and whatnot, which is exactly what the author of BSM - who is a self-proclaimed Scribe of Istaroth - did. In particular, she was more concerned with the passing on of oral stories and traditions, which might be why BSM reads like a bunch of footnotes at the start. Where I think this parallel gets even stronger is the fact that Mnemosyne was the mother of the Muses, the goddesses of music and all forms of performative arts. Though there are only 9 Muses in Greek Mythology, I think they still make a pretty great parallel for the Thousand Winds of Genshin, and Venti being one of them as Carmen Dei is more than plausible. One more tiny detail is that the Seelie's design resembles that of a clione, the name of which is taken from Clio, who is one of the 9 Muses.
It's almost like listening to Yanfei melt down from a case info overload. :) In all seriousness though, I, too, have come to the conclusion that Enkanomiya has a sort of time displacement opposite to how the Abyss works. That or it's the Teyvat time bubble inside the Teyvat time bubble and the Abyss is where true time flows normally.
Heya Ashikai 👋👋 Awesome video really love the recap. I wanted to ask if there's a possibility that the flow of time in subterranean areas in Teyvat is not a constant. For example the popular theory is that the immense gravity around a Black Hole affects time (the closer to the event horizon the faster time proceeds. I think it's called Gravitational Time Dilation) so Enka would experience different time dilation to the area of the Abyss that TarTarTarglia fell into
Just thinking happy thoughts that maybe the god of time "fast forwarded" enkanomiya so they could meet orobashi to take care of them in a few hundred years instead of thousands. Edit, never enough venti woohoo!! C999 venti incoming!!
I can't stop smiling cuz this lore/theory kinda match the game they are referring. Sky children of light. Although the game itself never explain it's lore and let the player/fandom come up with the lore while giving clues every now and then. It put a smile to my face seeing my two favorite game combine into one kinda hehe.
That's some really interesting speculation. I'm not sure how to solve the time problem either but the description of it as the underworld and mentions of such things as the Lethe river makes me thing it's definitely got it's own flow of time, maybe in part due to the lack of a natural day/night cycle. Beyond that it seemed like a fairly obvious allegory for Atlantis to me. That's the impression I got during the quest anyway.
In my opinion, I think that there are some assumptions that you are making that may be complicating the timeline. Maybe there is a simpler solution. The main problem is the conclusion that Enkanomiya's time beneath the sea is only around ~200 years. You reach this number by this assumptions: 1. 'Abrax/Aberaku has seen the real sun' . This would mean the time between the fall of Enkanomiya and the Dainichi Mikoshi is less that 100 years. The only thing I found that supports this claim is the 'parable of the sun'. Being a parable, should not be taken literally and it that doesnt especify that the sage is Abrax either. 2. 'The sunchildren rule lasted around 80 years.' I agree with this 3. 'The archon war was the coming of the 2nd Throne and the cause of the fall of Enkanomiya.' We currently dont have any confirmation that this may be the case. 4. 'Orobashi wanted and started bringing his people to the surface as soon as he could.' Due to the latest information, it is completly possible that Enkanomiya's people and Orobashi were fine living in the depths after their victory over the Dragonheirs. I think thar Orobashi only started with the migration plan due to his deal with Celestia. Even Enjou mentions that the moving of the country was caused by the reading of the book. By these conclusions, we can stretch the time between Enkanomiya's fall and the Dainichi Mikoshi's creation as much as we want. Also, the descend of Orobashi could happen at any moment during the archon war, so his rule may have been between 100 to 1000 years. This would also help explaining WHY Khaenriah was looking for the book Before Sun and Moon. There is no reason to look for a book like that if Khaenriah is as ancient as Enkanomiya. In that scenario they should have their own records of the creation and coming of the Primordial One. So I think that Enkanomiya's fall happened before Khaenriah was established as a nation.
Just a sidenote, I wont discard the possibility that the flow of time in Enkanomiya or the Abyss may be weird (different from the 'surface'). There are way to many mentions of time and its god in the Byakuyakoku collection for just dismissing the theory. Even Aberaku's opening lines are very cryptid about time and its flow. I just wanted to share that it is also possible to place Enkanomiya's history in the timeline without time alteration shenanigans.
I didn't agree with the timeline in the video and you managed to express my thoughts perfectly. It almost seems like many generations went by when they lived in darkness and when they lived in the light including Orobashi's time. I think the war with the second who came fits better with the fall of the moon sisters since the text reads as follows: "the heavens collapsed and the earth was rent asunder."
@@Legolaaa I agree with You on both poins. While exploring Enkanomiya and readings its lore I felt that it was a civilization that spend countless generations underground. There are other texts that support this notion, like the mention that Enkanomiya has really detailed recordings due to the fact that they lacked celestial objects to keep track of the passage of time. I also think that it very likely that the coming of the 2nd throne may be related to the demise of the 3 moons due to the wording. Also it would allign better with the ancient Mural depictions of Tsurumi and Dragonspine. For now it is a nice guess
Definitely agree with all these points. I think the timeline problem that was introduced in the video really hinges on the assumption that the war against the second throne that caused Enkanomiya to fall to the depths is the same war as the archon war, which, to my understanding, are two separate wars entirely - the former being the war between the Primordial One and The Second Who Came, and the latter being power struggles between multiple gods over the seats of The Seven.
It might be incorrect to assume that the robots we see in Enkanomiya have been there since the last day of Enkanomiya (when the Khaenri'ahn delegation arrived). The newer models (the Ruin Sentinels) could have been developed after Enkanomiya was abandoned, then snuck in during one of the occasions where the seal was opened for the people of Watatsumi to descend and retrieve the Blood Coral. After all, they're all over the Inazuman Islands. Plus, the shrine maiden even warns that some monsters or people might have entered Enkanomiya before us during the world quest to unlock Enkanomiya. I think this was just foreshadowing on the writers' parts to prep us for Enjou, but it could also explain the presence of advanced robots in Enkanomiya. We also know that the Ruin Guard that was concealing Before Sun and Moon in Antigonus' quest was an older model than the ones we see above ground, since its core looks different from the Chaos Cores we can collect from Ruin Guards on the surface. Its description even states, "The core section of a Ruin Guard. Old and new versions of this device are incompatible..." Presumably, if we're taking game mechanics into account, the other Ruin Guards we see in Enkanomiya could also have arrived at a later date with the Ruin Sentinels, seeing as they are newer models than the one in Antigonus' quest.
![[2.4] Enkanomiya Recap Part Two: Teyvat's Pre-history - A Genshin Impact Theory](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/22TOpl_y3PA/mqdefault.jpg)
![[2.4] Enkanomiya Recap Part Two: Teyvat's Pre-history - A Genshin Impact Theory](/img/tr.png)
![[2.6] The Curse of Khaenri'ah - A Genshin Impact Theory](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Y3X5Xo5h5Ao/mqdefault.jpg)
![[2.5] Morax, the Prince of Liyue - A Genshin Impact Rant-Theory](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/-ZMxO5W0w-A/mqdefault.jpg)
![[v2.1] The Sleeping Dragon of Watatsumi - A Genshin Impact Theory](/img/n.gif)
**NOTES**
- The timeline in this video has some errors. I have made a video with a corrected timeline: ua-cam.com/video/KQZhpQuzMVQ/v-deo.html
- Quick correction on my (terrible) Greek! "Anemo" does mean "Wind." What I meant to say but did not was that "Anemo" doesn't mean "Air." Usually elemental systems are like earth, water, fire, air, but Genshin makes a deliberate choice to use Wind > Air, so Anemo > Aeros (Greek for Air). I wanted to make this point because Anemo = Anemoi which were born from the star god Astarios (which sounds like Astaroth which is basically the Ars Goetia name for Ishtaroth). Sorry about that!
- Many of you have suggested that the Second Throne may not be the Archon war. This is may be the case which I did touch on later (but not explicitly enough, ig). My issue with placing the Second Throne is that we don't have any cataclysmic events established between PO and the Archon war aside from the fall of the Moon Sisters (which we can't even place in the timeline). I also can't think of anything else (beyond a change of leadership) that would prompt Celestia to want to implement the system of the Seven. Either the Second Throne was the Archon War, OR the second throne was a separate event from earlier and we have a possible THIRD THRONE. No matter which way you slice it, Enkanomiya's timeline doesn't line up well...
I feel like second throne is Celestia. The part in book about Phanes being victor is just a speculation of people and not a definite statement.
It is possible that phanes lost the battle of throne. Otherwise a god who would rain and bring food if people were hungry, give them anything whenever they needed and loved them so much would not just flip 180 and put a ban on them
So i feel that either Phanes is defeated or he is captured or controlled
In Traveller profile we have literally the line about
"The keeper is fading away; the creator has not yet come.
But the world shall burn no more, for you shall ascend."
It suggests that creator(Phanes) is missing indicating that he escaped, keeper might be the sustainer of heavenly principle.
Also about Enkanomiya timeline, i think since it's a whole different realm i.e nether realm, so time flowing different shouldn't be a big surprise especially when we have already seen another example of time running differently in other dimension i.e abyss
Besides the pronunciations I'd say you understand the Greek of the game at least, which is something super rare around tbh! I'm impressed!
They were a civilization known as Byakuyakoku for a majority of time before they fell into the depths and became known as Enkanomiya later. They were maybe only Enkanomiya for only 200 years or more perhaps. You are also missing another war before or a little bit after Morax was born. The one where the Primordial God and his shades fought against the second throne.
But yeah I think you did manage to nail a majority of things. ;>
The seal phanes created was probably just meant to to keep people from going up, not stop anything from above going bellow
Enkanomiya was interesting especially when it comes to Paimon. Spoiler: during the sun child quest and talking to the child ghosts i found it interesting that the child that could tell one's fate couldn't tell anything about Paimon because there was some sort of "interference".
Yeah, i too found it interesting. Its stand out like sore thumb to me..
Ah yes. Similar to the thousand winds blowing Monas clothes off when she tried to read his constellations.
not from this world either
Enjou also had some things to say about her.
It's either about her or the Traveler, since Mona also can't read a thing about us, unlike the others whom she could easily read
I like to think that there is a 50 foot long timeline in Mihoyo’s offices that explain the entire timeline and lore
The sacred texts
On the other hand, what would be eerie is the idea that it could all be summed in a single sentence…
I'd believe that. Seems plausible. LOL
Maybe it’s painted on a hallway
pffft yeah, kind of like that billboard in the disney office by Alex Hirsch and the Gravity Falls crew titled "HOW TO KILL GOD" while they were brainstorming ideas to defeat Bill Cipher. Hoyoverse writers pulling random shit out of old books and mythology and then somehow weaving them perfectly into the lore of this game, can't imagine how the notes they write for that stuff must be like.
From what i understood
Teyvat was ruled by seven dragon lords earlier. Later Phanes came and defeated these seven dragon lords, defeated dragon and their kins refused to live under his rule and went to void realm.
There were only two realms in beginning but Phanes created humans, animals, beasts etc. thus creating a third realm that can be called human realm.
Humans were happy, Phanes listened to them, whatever people wanted he would give to them.
But these period ended and second throne of heavens came. It ensued battle between Phanes and second throne. Battle was of such intensity that heavens and earth were rip asunder. Enkanomiya fell into nether realm in this fight which is intersection of all realms.
In void realm there were already dragon heirs who were there after being defeated by Phanes. These beasts started hunting humans. These beasts love dark environment and hated light so this area was favourable to them.
Enkanomiyan who were trapped here prayed and prayed but there was no response from Phanes. At that time only God that was with them was god of time, Istaroth (one of the four shades of Phanes).
Meanwhile Battle above ended but when these people tried to go outside they understood that they were sealed and not allowed to escape. We don't know who was the victor but they guess that it was Phanes. (i think it was second throne that won)
One of these guys named Abrax had a vision from the Istaroth about a giant illuminating device, so he built up an artificial sun to light this void realm. He succeeded and his creation was called Helios.
The dragonheir who loved darkness escaped back in darkness and people were safe. But good moment didn't last long. Soon nobles started trying controlling/monopolizing everything. Even this artificial sun.
They created a new religion, made imaginary god and told everyone that Abrax was the prophet of God. Then they started putting small children on throne using religion to make a puppet government while controlling them from shades in name of religion. These small children who were made ruler were called sunchildren. No one was allowed to interact with them, even their personal caretaker couldn't talk with them. And even sad that knowing that if they grow up they can't be controlled easily. They literally incinerated then in artificial sun before they grew in name of ceremony.
Some revolts took place but failed. Even Abrax himself opposed when he saw what was happening but he himself was killed in the name of treason against holy sunchildren.
When all this was happening below, above in land Celestia decided to replace the gap left by seven sovereign by seven archons. And thus started a series of battle in different regions also known as archon war.
Orobashi fled and went into dark sea as he didn't want to participate. The seal separating nether realm(Enkanomiya) by then was weakened and that's how somehow through underocean cave system he reached in the nether realm.
One boy who had bet with his friends somehow met him in cave and asked him to become their god.
Sunchildren rule was already bad and public didn't like them so it was even easier to defeat all them. He defeated them and became the god. Being a snake god just like their imaginary god "Ouroboros" probably further increased his acceptance and popularity.
He with himself brought the culture of Teyvat/Narukami there. That's why you will find a lot of sinshades with two names, Japanese and Greek type name. He taught them farming, smelting and lot other things. He also helped them further on research on Vishaps/dragonheirs.
But again good period didn't last long. He by mistake came across a thing he shouldn't have. He read the book which told that Celestia etc are not from Teyvat and from other world.
Celestia somehow came to know about this and simply ordered him to die. Knowing power of celestia and knowing that if he doesn't die/comply Celestia will nuke him alongwith whole civilization.
So he decided to try his best to save people of Enkanomiya and create a suicide mission for himself which doesn't cause any suspicion.
He brought them above in a rather safer place and led a war against Narukami knowing well that if he is killed then at least finally they will be under rule of seven and remain safe. Enkanomiyan never knew of this sacrifice he did as he was pretty sure that if left alone then they will probably be nuked too.
But he didn't destroy the records, he rather put them under several trials and puzzles under security so that one day someone capable will come and see the truth.
Now time skip to current, we went down there to bring coral jade branches which grow on the experimental vishaps which had transplanted corals from Orobashi, there to control the "holy soil" phenomenon of Watatsumi. Their soil grow unfertile due to it and thus they routinely bring those corals of their god which are powerful enough to stop this phenomenon. We went down as the hero of the ritual, we met a guy Enjou who was also there for some reason. Later we realise that abyss order is also looking for those books to confirm their theories about Celestia not being from Teyvat.
Even when enkanomiya was there, they had sent a delegation there and they tried to steal that sun and moon book. We hear this story from a sinshade who is falsely accused of stealing that book
That's all i could understand, if i am wrong somewhere correct me
Damn, nice
I think everything makes sense except for the timeline. Like ashikai says it should only be a period of 200 years or so in enkonomya which doesn't match with the event timeline of tayvat. But other than that great explanation as I was struggling a bit to keep up with the series of events
this a long ass essay monkaS
@@abidance6444 since it's a whole different dimension, that is nether realm, so time flowing different than normal human realm might not be that unexpected
Especially since we already have other example of time flowing different in other realm like in abyss.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but the position of archon existed before the archon war. While the archons likely filled the role of the seven sovereigns, the archon war that we commonly refer to was just a period of upheaval across all of teyvat that saw a complete reshuffle of the seats. Decarbarian at least according to the English version was referred to as the anemo archon, and in venti's character story, his death lead to the "crumbling of an ancient seat of divinity" ('seats of divinity' being used to sometimes refer to as a position as archon).
Enkanomiyan’s describing Kairos: She’s got a point, she’s an icon, she’s a legend, and she is the Moment. Now c’mon now.
This is my theory:
Khaenri'ah or the Abyss is not one nation but many.
Enkanomiya has many inspirations from ancient Greece.
Ancient Greece was not one nation but many. they are called Polis-Krate ("Πόλη-Κράτος"/"Πόλεις-Κράτη" means "city-state")
Athens and Sparta, for example, were not considered one nation but two seperate "cities", Polis-Krate.
What if Khaenri'ah is actually inspired by ancient Greece and Enkanomiya is actually a Polis-Kratos of Khaenri'ah?
That's a cool idea, and good point about ancient Greece. But then how do we square the fact that the Enkanomiyan shades refer to a delegation "from Kaenri'ah"?
Hmmmmm.... Yeah, agreed. Time flows differently in the abyss and Enkanomiya. But "Kaenri'ah" for lack of better term has a destruction we can pinpoint. -the cataclysm. If Enkanomiya sank into the void (yes, I'm a Minecraft player - and Sussy McSuspants Enjou DID warn us that falling from an island would be an eternal fall...) before the archons claimed their divinity. -before Celestia's rise, and therefore holds a secret Celestia couldn't destroy because they couldn't reach it (that says SOOOOOOOO much about their power btw) and CELESTIA supposedly destroyed Kaenri'ah.... yeah, those timelines don't match up. BUT (devil's advocate here) since Enkanomiya claims to have belonged to a unified world government before it's plunge into the void, perhaps Kaenri'ah was the name of that land and the people that we now associate with that name were nostalgics. Clinging to an old world order and therefore destroyed in a new world order..... Now THAT is plausible. Probable? -meh... But definitely plausible.
make sense beacuse Guizhong collect some stuff from khenriah machine 3700 year ago.
Also in a quest, there is a Khaenrian representative in a research.. so maybe it's a different place
I'm getting quite the God of war vibes lol
Idk if yall noticed this yet, but somewhere at the bottom of one of enkonomiya's islands by the side of a cliff, there's a giant statue of a cloaked man holding a lantern (only visible during night) and a branch of corals and coiled around his lower half is a giant body of a snake. Based on how the snake body is positioned and the lack of its head seen, it looks like the snake body is actually the lower body of the man, like a naga. The branch of corals caught my attention, and the pose the snake guy had with the lantern made it seem like he was leading/guiding. Orobashi's most prominent feature in his stories are his corals, and he was known to lead the enkonomiya people to light, so seeing the snake guy statue made me wonder if orobashi ever had a human/naga form, the same way zhongli has both an exuvia and the form that resembles a human
I’m still wondering why Celestia wouldn’t just destroy “Before Sun and Moon” and “The Pale Princess and the Six Pygmies” instead of wiping out anyone who discovers their secrets. I wonder if Kairos somehow sustains this knowledge for later generations.
Yeah it's confusing.... just destroy the book... O_o
@@Ashikai
Celestia: Nah a random killing spree sounds better
i think it's the... there's a technical/academic term for it, but like something something about information and memetic things that cannot be controlled the same way as physical things. if one person knows about some topic, it is not enough for a single copy to be destroyed to contain said topic. just like how that one book was translated into teyvatian (?) and dispersed in that form. burning books do nothing if the information exists in the memories of living people. or in the case of genshin's universe... maybe they started preserving people's memories in constellations unable to be recycled by the world tree for a more sinister reason...
@@littlegreenclementine the last bit widened my eyes-
@@littlegreenclementine then just destroy the books so no one else can uncover their secrets? Like if they just destroyed all the evidence and killed off the remaining people who know of it. No one would ever know forever
Mihoyo: sooooo how complicated do you want the timeline to be?
Ashikai: NO
Mihoyo: hmmmm... that's a weird way of saying YES
anyway next theory is the one with Paimon and pre Teyvat's history?
Yup!
MHY: How good you want the story telling inside the game want to be?
Me: Yes
MHY: that's a weird way of making us sprinkle bits of lore here and there but not actually clarify or confirm it.
*Analysis doesn't mean canon
@@Vizible21 yeah. They put too much effort into the lore that they completely forget about the writing of the story and narrative. Like why is all this lore so important when even if it does all lead up to a climax, the journey to get there was garbage.
Yep ... Especially after they made not one but to references to paimon's true nature in Enkanomiya. The comment of Enjou that she'd betray us... And the fact the Paimon doesn't hate any fate or Destiny found out by one of those Sunchildern
When you have very little time because your fan base is in eternal hunger for content you throw together some things that sound cool and hope noone will start digging to Deep. Inconsistency of time lines is something really common for Mihoyo since they often change entire canon or forget some things all together
Yeah the most frustrating part of Genshin lore in general is that there's no concrete dates so it's difficult to form a cohesive timeline. If we were given actual dates instead of approximations it would solve so many lore...issues.
It will sort it out altoghter at the end.
I honestly find it kinda fun trying to arrange the timeline lol
But that is what makes it fun. It refers to real life history and how myths and legends are incorporated into a culture
An interesting point about the sinshades. They are a result of powerful emotions and are a result of the power of one of the four shades of the primordial one. And like you pointed out the elements are of Greek roots... and visions are also a result (at least in some part) of powerful emotions. Pretty wild speculation but it'd be interesting if the secret of visions is that they actually stem from the power of the primordial one and Celestia somehow has imprisoned or controls this power. Seeing the lengths Celestia goes to hide the history of the primordial one it would make sense if the truth of visions was linked to this truth.
"Pyro Archon's Challenge, Hydro Archon's Adjudication, Dendro Archon's Whisper, Electro Archon's Wagashi, Anemo Archon's Poetry, Cryo Archon's Lament, Geo Archon's Providence, Genshin's Vindication"
If you know, you know.
That does make sense and it tyies into my theory that the erminsil tree is the primordial one or the Demiurge in gnosticism I believe
@@gumball6445 The Demiurge, especially by definition, fits closer to the unknown God at the start of the game (or as the in-game files calls her, Asmody).
I'm watching this because MHY still won't voice quests like these. I'm sorry but it's just engaging enough for my adhd brain to pay attention to
And the brightside; i'm glad you've basically condensed it into a digestible and enjoyable experience. Thanks so much, Ashikai!
Are you officially diagnosed with adhd or do you just have poor self-control at tasks which seem a bit boring?
I think that venti being one of the thousand winds makes sense because his original form was very small, as if there were more of him, but i think his friend gave him the strength he needed to grow? like a power of friendship type of moment. And since he looks like a seelie, maybe they're the other 999 winds? that does look like a good number for completion purposes.
also Paimon was weird in this quest. Especially with what Enjou said in the end of the quest along the lines of we should be careful about Paimon because even she can backstab us, and although he probably was taking a wild guess i want to assume that line was put there with purpose.
23:49 it's probably already been mentioned by someone but I think it's interesting to note that mondstadt seems to have worshipped Kairos and barbatos *together* like they were some sort of packaged deal at some point, as wind and time always seem to be associated with eachother via phrases in game
Why mondstadt worshipped her? No clue. Why they forgot about her? Also no clue, but they fact the worshipped her at all is pretty interesting
Also it's just very funny that mondstadt and enkanomiya seem to have any sort of connection, I swear you learn stuff about mondstadt everywhere-
The war of the second throne may have been Celestia's war against the Second Moon Sister or perhaps the Seelie's thrones. The Archon War isn't the only war period in Teyvat's history.
I think this whole messy passage of time thing can be solved in a simple way: the sage who had seen the sun is not Abrax, or if that isn't the case, then he saw it in a dream or a vision from Kairo. That makes it so that the only thing timing Enkanomias exile is the war of the second throne, which isn't specifically named as the archon war. I at least will think of it this way for the time being.
That actually makes things line up pretty well and works with what we know gods are capable of as far as granting visions (in the dream sense that is). I'm honestly surprised that wasn't mentioned as a possibility in the vid.
Another possibility with no evidence for it might be that the Sage who had seen the sun (probably as you say not being Abrax) was a stranger who found their way to Enkanomya somehow from the surface, rather than a native.
@@TheLogicMouse That wouldn't make sense though as Enkanomiya was sealed off by Celestia preventing anyone from going in or out. The only person/thing that managed to get in was Orobashi and by then the Dainichi Mikoshi was already created and the seal most likely weakened due to time and the Archon War probably throwing the elements into chaos.
"fun" thing i notice: there is one grave on south end of the Evernight Temple. It's a grave of one of the sunchild. At evernight time, there are these glowing flower that pop up. they are same flower as on Hu Tao's dress and the dress of lady in front of the Funeral parlour. In real life, they represent death (i think). And we dont see them anywhere else in the game.
idk why but this quote about Kairos REALLY resonates with me for Paimon's characteristics:
"She was the moment. She was every moment. She was the measure of a thousand winds and the sun and the moon. She was every second of joy, every moment of rage, every instant of longing, every minute of obsession. She was every flash of delirium".
Considering she could change time ingame, was found in mondstadt near the 1000 winds temple of old, has extreme emotions, and obsessive for pretty much anything..
Probably wrong, but wanted to share my thoughts.
⁰
So, what you're saying is: Paimon is the capital city of Egypt.
With those greek words and Zhongli being the oldest guy we know, now is a good time to remember his sixth constellation is named "Chrysos, bounty of the dominator". Chrysos means gold, so on the surface I assumed it was a way to say "to the victor the spoils" while keeping with the mineral theming of these constellations. But now...
Between that and the whole Vishap connection, I'm back to what seems to be my main way to process lore these days, which is to stare at Zhongli and ask what he's hiding this time.
I do wonder why no one asks what Venti is hiding. He’s the oldest archon besides Zhongli, it’s not impossible he knows some stuff
@@gameb9oy Oh, I don't ask that out loud mostly because I don't have him, but he's just as shady.
@@Ranakel as someone who has all 3 archons Venti is definitely the most shady....Zhongli will withhold Information from you but at the very least he will tell you that he knows something but cannot speak on that matter as he has signed a contract. Venti won't even tell you that much....he will simply laugh it off.
@@ishuika Also, Venti knows a lot from what we can see in the visions he casually gives people. Also, he did call out the Fatui's plans regarding Dvalin and his Gnosis.
The interesting thing about one of the loading screens is that they say that Byaku people learning the culture of Narukami was meant to whitewash and erase their memories of their ancient civilization. Perhaps this was done as part of protecting the people of Watatsumi after Orobashi being sentenced to die, but the phrasing of this doesn't sound that way to me, maybe there was something else causing this.
There were two groups in Byakuyakoku. One wanted to remember, the other opted to forget. The ones who wanted to forget were the Sangonomiyan's, and they eventually became the rulers (hence, Kokomi). Those who wanted to remember were like Erebus who left archives behind. It was a weird compromise.
The tidbit about Orobashi alone was enough for me to appreciate this area so much. Though that begs the question, Orobashi is responsible for the death of one of Ei's friends (the tengu in her trailer) which goes to show how strong it was, so if Orobashi had won... what would a giant snake Archon look like? Would it shoot electricity out of its mouth or something.
I guess maybe Orobashi can have a human form? I mean, Morax was a dragon but has a human form. Venti was a wind spirit but took the form of a friend, so I guess if Orobashi was the electro archon, he would take on a human form for the sake of being playable
@@binniee9326 Human form wise, Orobashi would probably look like Naruto's Orochimaru perhaps. But given how chill Orobashi was, he'd probably be post 4th great ninja world war Orochimaru.
@@binniee9326 Orabashi actually have statues in enkanomiya in his human form some are even depicted with him having a half human and half sepent body on some walls in enkanomiya
Been waiting a whole lot for this, love the videooo
My main toughts on this are
1- I think that the second who came and the archon war are two different things, making the war against him predate the archon war and thus making the timeline a lil bit less confusing.
2- I will bet my life that the omnipresent statue on inazuma is either Phanes or Kairos
3- I am going crazy in conspiracy theory mode that the battle pass cutscene venti sings to us might be related to the thrones/phanes/whatever the hell was going on there.
Think about it:
A HEIR to a kingdom in the sky that comes to teyvat looking for the genesis pearl and is tricked by a SERPENT into thinking they are the ruller of the abyss and a SECOND HEIR coming to do what the first didn't and COMFRONT THEM
i cant not think abt it being related send help
If the Second who came is before the Archon war, that makes the timeline **even worse**!
I close my eyes.
i do not see.....
@@Ashikai Think about it this way, Enkanomiya's netherworld is directly neighboring the Abyss, which has already been tested positive for timey-whiney shenanigans, also who says Enkanomiya's time system is anything like Teyvat's? They literaly had no stars, moons, or even regular natural phenomenon to guide themselves by _they have FOLDS IN SPACE_ (shrine of Ouroboros/Delphi), at this point you're better off thinking of this all as chains of events in certain orders with time being only complementary (if it is even existant)
Figures we'd get screwed over the moment we learned anything concrete about the god of time, it's a curse, Mihoyo know what they're doing and revel in our suffering
I think in the book it was said, at the beginning of the time of the primordial one, when Phanes was born through an egg, but in the process of hatching Phanes did not destroy the shell and used the shell to form a protection around the already created world. Which means the world wasn't created again (?). Which also supports ashikai's other theory about the world structure of teyvat.
Also Venti may have some control over time as well, which would explain how he temporarily restored the Holy Lyre of Himmel with his "little trick".
And knows all songs, Past, Present, and Future.
The music in Enkonomiya has been something else. I particularly love the darker tone to each battle theme. This area was honestly a treat.
I think one of the important detail about the book "Before Sun and Moon" that needs to be considered is the all the chapters name started with 'parable'. So the tale in "The Parable of the Sun" talking about a sage who have witnessed sun can't be taken at face value, it is purposely written in cryptic. It is either to conceal some truths, or it is a prophecy told when Enkanomiya sunk below the ground. Noted that "The Parable of the Sun" is a chapter before "The Year of Blindness", which sage Abrax is 1st mentioned about his wisdom 'awakened'.
So there might actually be a lot of years have passed in between the sinking of Enkanomiya and the creation of Helios by Abrax.
Abrax never had wisdom awakened, if we are to believe him (which I do). But we do know that it was because of a sage that the Enkanomiyans even knew how to light torches and candles (which we see everywhere) to fend off the Vishaps. It's possible that they are not the same person, but I think it's more likely that they are. It makes sense that Abrax would look at the candles and be like "there's gotta be a better way. how do I make a HUUUUGE one?" and then get to planning. But arguably, he could do this at any time. It's just my opinion, anyway.
@@Ashikai Indeed the 'wisdom awakened' most likely just be a form of writing expression instead of literal meaning. Mihoyo has done a great job in giving just enough information for us to speculate a lot, but far from enough to form concrete conclusion. So it is possible the time could be whacky underground, just like you have said about those time tunnels before.
I think that Mondstadt is the closest link we have to that unified nation and, by proxy, Khaenri’ah itself. Apart from Germany, it’s secondary language seems to be Latin, which is the primary language we see associated with Khaenri’ah (German too, see Dainsleif, Rhinedottir, Alberich).
Now, if this unified nation was Greece, then wouldn’t it make sense that Khaenri’ah is Ancient Rome? Latin was the primary language of Rome, and Rome took plenty of inspiration from Ancient Greece in countless aspects of their civilization. What if Khaenri’ah, and maybe even Mondstadt, based their cultures from this unified nation.
Mondstadt is really weird. It’s German, but their own god doesn’t have a name rooted in a Germanic language. Zhongli and Ei are obviously referencing their languages, but the closest thing to Venti is wind (vind). But, wouldn’t you know, Venti stems from the Latin word Ventus, who was also a Roman god apart of the *Venti* who were wind deities.
Venti is also Greek. It means “the winds.” This also helps since the north wind in Greek mythos is literally boreas, like in game
Just want to say that I like your theory videos alot. Your research and the way you explain things does ring a bell. Also I like your cheery tone while explaining them, it is entertaining. I listen to your videos while on work, just like listening to radio broadcast. Thank you for resuming and theory crafting Genshin lore so far. I can't grasp it when I play the game, I'm kinda a messy player and already get confused alot by the game map and location.
Same same same! Your voice is both cheerful and soothing. End up rewatching, or re listening, to your videos while I do chores. You'd make a great audiobook voice actor 👍
25:53 DEEP DIVE INTO VENTI? I AM LISTENING!!! ventis such an interesting and mysterious char which id LOVE watching a video abt to understand more, esp his connection and importance to the main lore 👀
I left the game after version 2.5 but Enkanomiya stuck to me dearly, I have its OST playlist saved and would listen to it every now and then.
I rewatched your video today and it reminded me of how great this game is and I returned and continued playing after 2 years.
P.S: your rant about how the timelines don't align is really funny. Keep doing your thing Ashikai sensei.
When Enka first opened up, I was kinda whatever about it, but I'm a completionist so of course I was going to get everything. As I did more I realized how beautifully they captured the melancholy ambiance in this place, and the color palette they chose is just beautiful as well. Once I got to the shades, I was really enjoying myself. I love getting these intricate bits of interesting lore like in the summer archipelago. Enka has easily become my absolute favorite "filler" region we've had so far
Love this video! It gives a new dimension on how weird everything in Enkanomiya is!
There really is an insane amount of Greek names and their lore. One thing that I found cool is in the names of the achievements of Enkanomiya. They basically have one for Kairos, Hesperus and Phosphorus (maybe two other shades?). Phosphorus is the Morning Star and the ancient Roman name for Morning Star is… Lucifer. So yeah I’m currently down in the lore rabbit hole crafting theories lol
Possibly! Hesperus has a connection to Asterios who fathered the Anemoi... so... maybe...
@@Ashikai omg so excited for more of your videos you know so much stuff
Oh damn, Hesperus is another name for the Evening Star too. Three moon maidens connection?
Phosphorus/Lucifer is the ONLY missing one from Evil Trinity (Beelzebub,Astaroth,Lucifer)
So maybe it's a bit more literal than it seems, what if Abrax was a weakened primordial god? Being the only one who had 'seen the sun' if rather than people as a whole only a handful like him and maybe erebus were extremely long lived, then it's possible that enkanomiya had been in the dark for a lot, looooooot longer than just one generation.
Also been reading those books again to try and help piece together the timeline a bit more and something caught my attention, volume 2 is a pretty decent source as far as placing things in time but it begins by saying that before even the primordial there were 7 sovereigns, dragon-lords (perhaps tying to the nord myth about newer gods taking the power left behind by old ones?), and that after the primordial beat them he and his 4 shades (so 5 total, abyss?) created flora and fauna as well as humanity (so what did the sovereigns rule, the Seele?), and it ruled over humanity only caring to make them happy until 'The second throne of the heavens came' which... that might be celestia?
Also can we talk about the fact that Kairos' true name is exactly one letter off from Astaroth? Sorry I know there is a -lot- to talk about in enkanomiya, take your time.
If you don't mind me asking, what book did you get that information from?
@@kasandorayuki5215 the books from that one enkanomiyan librarian world quest (i forgot the name)
@@kasandorayuki5215 Whichever volume 2 was from the enkanomiya collection, I read them directly from the in-game archive and they don't have the book titles there anymore
"Is it wise to allow a moment's ambition to dominate one's entire life?" was reminded of this quote (can't remember who said it. Traveler? Dain?) when you talk about Chronos and Kairos
Traveller's quote about visions, I too was reminded of this quote. Really do wonder how Sinshades and Visions are connected as they are both related to a snapshot in time where one's expressing strong emotions.
The sacrificial series has so many allusions to the connections between time and the wind. I've been obsessed.
Btw anyone who doesn't know who helios is he's the Titan of the sun in Greek mythology where he takes the sun around in a chariot and sees everything
Time moving different in the abyss makes it that much crazier that they hold such a grudge. from their pov like 15k years since the cataclysm only
This is a great recap, though in case you missed them, here are some things I found while doing a lore dive myself:
In the achievements Kairos's name is paired with two others, Phosphoros and Hesperus, assuming these aren't regular gods, they might be more of Phanes's Shades. What's curious about that is Phosphoros means Light/lightbringer and Hesperus means Evening/Evening star, if they are shades this implies they're counterparts, light and dark. Which would mean the 4th shade would be a counterpart to Kairos. The Dragon lords all have descendants who are presumably of great power.
Kairos's real name is Istaroth.
And that the 7 dragon lords were likely masters of the 7 elements.
Now with all of this in mind, I propose a couple of theories:
1. The bodies or powers of the 7 dragons were used to make the 7 Gnosis, and later, the visions. Given how both have their origins from Celestia themselves, it's not unlikely.
2. The counterpart to Kairos is the God of Space, a safe guess given what we know, as to who they are, that's a different theory.
3. The Sustainer is the 4th shade of Phanes, a bit of a leap I know, but given what we've seen of her abilities, it's possible. She uses near pitch black cubes to absorb pretty much everything they touch, a quality of Blackholes which would fall under the dominion of Space, she has the ability to create portals, something that's usually associated with Spatial manipulation, and finally, if we assume Kairos is an anemo god herself, then her counterpart would be a geo god, which would explain the cubic nature of her attacks.
4. Dvalin and Azhdaha or Morax are descendants of these ancient dragons, which explains their vast power compared to others of their kind. Morax is believed to be the strongest of the seven archons, Azhdaha was able to make Morax struggle in their clash, and Dvalin is supposedly as strong as Barbatos. It is said that the Hydro dragon's descendent has a human form, which leads me to believe in two possible candidates, Kokomi or the Hydro Archon, we don't have much info on the Hydro Archon, so Kokomi's the current best guess
It is rumored that "The war of the second throne" is more likely to be the battle between the primordial one and the second who came all those years ago and that that's the cause that Enkanomiya accidentaly sinked, maybe this fits a bit better in the timeline. It also makes sense considering that Enkanomiya was a part of the unified civilization and that that civilization was ruled over by the primordial one
So, I was re-reading Before Sun and Moon, and discovered a bunch of interesting things about the “sage who saw the sun” and the timeline of Enka.
Basically, it is said specifically that only after that sage died did the sage Abrax “monopolize the flame” in the helios, meaning that Abrax was not that original sage. This opens up a significant period of time where the people of Enka could have lived first in mostly darkness, then with large torches built by the first sage. Then, surely at least a century had to pass during the building of the massive helios. But only after the helios had been built was the “ban” discovered, which to me places all these events significantly before the archon war.
So, my conclusion is that time has to move different in Enkanomiya, likely about 10 times slower. Thus, from the perspective of the surface, they lived 1000 years in mostly darkness, probably about 2000 years with large torches including while the helios was being built, and then 700 years of the sun children and likely 800-ish years under Orabashi. This adds up to Enka falling 6500 years ago during the war between the 1st and 2nd thrones which I do not think is the same thing as the archon war, and then Orabashi falling at the beginning of the Archon war ~ 3500 years ago and Watatsumi island being built and inhabited 2000 years ago. The evidence/explanation for this is below.
in the section “The Parable of the Sun” I think it’s important to note that it says “In a dark cavern, there lived a group of people who had never seen the light.” Which means that even the elderly there hadn’t seen it.
Next, it says that there was a sage who had seen the sun and was able to tell everyone “what life under the sun was like” which to me indicates that he had definitely been to the surface. There are 2 possibilities here:
1. He was born in Enkanomiya, but was able to travel to the surface in a time before the seal was placed
2. He lives on the surface of Byakukoku but was from a long-lived species. I think this is more likely
Next, it says that he “lit a torch- and thus did the people come to worship the flame, believing it to be the sun” It doesn’t make sense for them to not know about fire or light at all because they surely would have died out if that was the case, so my best guess is that the sage created a large torch (like the olympic torch) that shone over a significant area, and then more were built to light up inhabited areas and ward off the dragonheirs.
After that- and this is key- it says “When the sage died, someone would monopolize the flame” So, the helios wasn’t built until after the safe died!!! This means that Abrax was not the sage, and also opens up the possibility that the people of Enkanomiya lived using these large torches for a while.
So, Enkanomiya could have easily been in near-complete darkness for 100 years or more so that no one left had seen the sun except the sage, then they could have lived with the torches for who knows how long, before Abrax finally built the helios. Now, I do wonder how long it took to build the helios, since it is very large and in medieval times there were cathedrals that took centuries to build. Since Abrax is also called a sage, perhaps he was of the same long-lived race as the first sage, and lived long enough to see it built over a few centuries? Regardless, it was completed, and only then did the people of Enkanomiya try to return to the surface and discover the ban. So that firmly places all of this significantly before Orobashi fell right? How could the seal have weakened in like 50 years?! This seems to indicate that the sunchildren ruled for long enough for the ban to weaken, which to me can only be explained by time moving different in Enkanomiya.
So, how much slower? Obviously idk, but currently the estimated time experienced by the Enkanomiyans is 100 (pre sage) + 200 (designing and building helios)+ 70 (sunchildren) + 80 (rule of Orobashi and ascension prep) with the last number being very iffy. That adds up to 450 years, and since this timeline ends 2000 years ago, if the ratio is 10:1 that puts it at 4500 years, putting the fall of Enka around 6500 years ago before Zhongli was born. This also gives Orabashi a 700 year window at the beginning of the Archon war to have fallen and also doesn’t have him ascend until the end of the war.
Now, this would obviously indicate that the 2nd throne of the heavens and the accompanying war was not the archon war. I actually think this makes sense, because I believe that Celestia is the 2nd throne and that they came from outside the world and overthrew The Primordial One. They have ruled the world ever since, and all the times about “the gods walking the earth” was after this takeover. The Archon war was just a manufactured conflict by Celestia to get the gods to fight much later on.
Oh, and this also explains why Celestia wants to hide this fact- they don’t want anyone to know that there was a time before them! Everyone knows that there was a time before the Archon war, so that can’t be the great secret right?!
Okay okay, so basically, I have concluded that the only way to reconcile the timeline is to have time move more slowly in Enkanomiya. The only alternative is if everyone lived lives 10x as long, which has basically the same effect, or if the seal upon Enka was specifically and rapidly (~50 yrs) weakened during the early days of the Archon war. This latter case would either require the early people of Tevyat to have lived longer lives- which is similar to what the Bible says about early humans- and/or there to have been very long periods of time where they just lived with large torches.
I hope this all makes sense! If anyone actually reads this whole thing, thank you and I hope it was worth your time haha
Not disagreeing with your time analysis but I will point out that a parable is a little different from the rest of the book because it is less a historical retelling, and more the recording of a legend, and doesn't actually disprove the idea that abrax in the sage are the same. If you assume that the torch is just a metaphor for the Helios, then yes someone did monopolize that torch after he died. The nobles enacted a plan to kill abrax and then they monopolized the Helios.
This is why I said that it's very possible they could be the same person. It's also equally possible that they are not the same person but I don't want to exclude the possibility yet. Given that the nobles also discredited abrax's accomplishments by warping the story of the Helios into something divinely created instead of invented by a human, we can easily see how a much more straightforward less magical story can become more mystical and mythological over time as it's retold.
I don't think that the archon war was a great secret and I get the feeling that I wasn't clear enough about my connection between the second throne and the archon war. For starters, we don't actually have a point in time in which we can place the coming of the second throne because it could have happened at any point up to the archon war. However the reason why I'm focused on the archon war is specifically because I don't understand why the war happened in the first place. Why was there a sudden need to change the entire leadership of the world into having just the rule of the seven, unless there was a change of leadership in the heavens? To me, that possibility alone is enough for me to at least suspect that the archon war could have been something that came about because of the second throne, because otherwise it implies that there could have possibly been a third throne, or is it the primordial one did defeat the second throne the first time, but that the second throne tried again and this time was successful, idk.
In any case I'm going to stick with the archon war for now just because we have at least some form of relative date for it and we're already working with too many unknown variables for my liking.
@@Ashikai Thanks for the awesome response! Yeah the possibility of the phrase “monopolize the flame” referring to the nobles who took over did occur to me, but it still seems a little strange to me to refer to the helios as a flame. However, the fact that it is a parable does make any over analysis of it pretty risky huh:/
As for the 2nd throne and Archon war connection.. since all of this stuff is extremely speculative I get wanting to simply the timeline a bit and have more concrete dates. That being said, I really don’t think the arrival of the 2nd throne is what started The Archon War, and I’ll tell u why. Based on my (over)analysis of “Before Sun and Moon”, it sounds to me like before the arrival of the 2nd throne, there was only the Primordial One and the 4 shades. No other gods are mentioned, and Enkanomiyans didn’t worship any other gods until Orabashi arrived much later. But we know that there were many gods roaming the earth for a long tine, so what gives? Well, I believe that these Gods only appeared after the 2nd throne took over, which would mean that a god like Zhongli would have “descended” AFTER the 2nd throne appeared. That’s why I put that event so early and so far removed from the Archon War. I also remember there being some line- maybe from Enjou?- that mentioned there being “a time before the gods roamed the earth” which further supports this idea
As for why the Archon War started.. we don’t really know. But I don’t think it needs to be something as dramatic as a new leader in Celestia. It could be as simple as Celestia wanting to identify the strongest gods out there, and then use them as proxies to rule the world. Or perhaps they legitimately just only had room for 7 more gods in Celestia and all the other gods fought over those spots kinda on their own..? Idk, but there are a myriad of reasons why it could have been started.
Of course, this is all just speculation and over analysis, so believe whatever you want! I’m sure we’ll find out more soon!
I felt your suffering the second you started talking about the timeline.
*pure pain. Even figuring out the current timeline for traveller’s chronological journey is difficult…*
omg i love the humour-
resident boughkeeper isn't around to dain-splain things-
LIKE THE CLASS AND BEAUTY IN THAT LMAO
also I've noticed that your editing is getting better and better, so awesome job on that part! :D
Spears on Enkanomia looks like Childe's hydrospear. Childe's teacher left Enkanomia and jumped to timeline where it goes much faster? Probably not but I like it
Although Enkanomiya is a massive information dump, you gotta admit the area is absolutely gorgeous and I almost fell asleep to the music while playing. It's just so calming. It would be nice if Mihoyo does voice over for Enka quest to make people more engaged. I try to understand the lore behind it while playing but I lost track most of the time.
I just finished Enkanomia and was so excited to finally watch these videos! Hearig that Khanerei'ah visited them and were looking for a BOOK, definitely peaked my interest. Because this isn't the first time they have! So, allow be to go into a little bit of my own analysis I've done.
Waaaay back at the beginning, you'll remember in Lisa's story quest an Abyss Mage stole the book "The Pale Princess and the Six Pygmies". Now, we still only have the first volume, HOWEVER what we know so far is that it's about "The Land of Night and the Moonlight Forest". Not only that, but here's a quote from the book:
"Everyone in the Kingdom of the Moonlight Forest was born with fair skin, light-colored hair, and bright blue eyes. Perhaps the constant lack of sunlight and the nourishment of the moonlight was the reason for their beauty, giving them an appearance different from the abhorrent creatures lurking at the edge of the forest."
Now, that description of the people DEFINITELY fits Kokomi, and I can't remember exactly who says it, but in Enkanomia I'm certain I remember one of the shades mention that the surface people were amazed by their complexion and they put it down to the lack of sunlight. Plus "abhorrent creatures" does sound like it could be describing the Vishaps.
Now, this could just be a coincidence. However it's just one more link between Enkanomia and Mondstadt. We heard all the potential connections to Venti specifically in the video, but there is one more.
The last one actually brings us back to the Dragonbone Orb. You see, there a hidden quest after you obtain the orb, where you sell it to one of the three Souvenir Shops. And out of those shops, the only one who seems to actually know what the Dragonbone Orb might be surprisingly isn't Netsuke no Gen Crafts in Inazuma , but With Wind Comes Glory in Mondstadt! Quotes from Marjorie:
"Huh, isn't this what the bards called the "Fretnaught Fruit... To think that it really exists... So its real name is the Dragonbone Orb... Why, it has abilities straight out of a fairy tale!"
She even knows the best way to store the orb too!
I don't know why, but Enkanomia has a scary amount of connections to Mondstadt, and I don't know exactly what it means, but I hope some more people look into this because I haven't seen anyone really talking about it.
(Edit, one other connection, being that the God of Time, is only mentioned in one other place. And guess where that is...)
Huh. That connection with the fruit because I don't like to think about the princess and the pygmy book because it's very cryptic lol
But you're right it does kind of have a lot of similarities to Enkanomiya. Interesting, interesting...
~ 4:50 I think the term "nobles" is pretty valid, considering that hierarchies are established when groups/communities are formed. Like, they might not be what we picture when we think of nobles, but privilege is always relative to culture and community. So, maybe they're richer or more popular in comparison to others within that community. Also, hierarchies are more likely to be established whenever a community is in dire need of leadership in order to survive.
Crazy bit of Lore as one of the 3 shades of Aberaku quest said this "When the Sky Kingdom Crashed into the bottomless depths, the people were scored by dragons [Note: later rename Vishaps], and thus did I - Yes, 'twas I - begin building the Helios to save us all from our fate".
Meaning that the one nation of humans were SKY people. Potentially meaning continent we now know as Teyvat fell to the sea level and Enkanomiya lands fell even further down.😵💫 So the Battle Pass story might be referring to this one civilization of the sky before the Invader known now as "Celestia" came and started the War with the Primordial One to cause this first fall. The people of Enkanomiya didn't know of the Archon war until Orobashi no Mikoto/Watatsumi Omikami came and dethroned the last SunChild thousands of years later. There is a chance this war with the Primordial One vs "Celestia" after the 7 Dragons were defeated was even before Morax was born 6000 years ago.
Yeah, time be wacky in Enkanomiya! It's like its own pocket dimension.... It's the same thing with the Pocket of the Abyss Ajax fell into... you know where Childe's 3 months in the Abyss was only 3 days in Teyvat... 😵💫Another theory might be that even the people of Enkanomiya where sealed when their lands fell into the ocean. Thus they woke up LONG after their civilization had been destroyed and the weakening the Primordial One power seal allowed to awaken rather then be awoken by the Primordial One.
If Venti is Kairos or a son to Kairos as a seed of wind in this world, well his "absenteeism" makes a little more sense, he is there when a moment to strike is needed. and explain why he "sleeps" when not needed. It always bothered me why Venti falls into a "coma" more than once know without an explanation. He woke up for Vennessa and he woke up for Dvalin or should I say for the Traveller..... 🤔
The way in which you create these theory/explanation videos feel more like a friend telling you about their favourite video game lore instead of some rigid fact discourse. Much appreciated content ♥️
This entire place is shrowded with juicy content, I can't wait for the next update!
Idk why but I have a certain feeling that the primordial one is still alive somewhere but is in danger of dying
My theory/thought (which has no base at all atm) is that Dainsleif, just like with paimon might be related to the primordial one (as them being her "shades") and that the "her" that Dainsleif's refering to is the primordial one.
How? Maybe Dainsleif is a descended of one of the shades?
The only reason I have to that is that both paimon and Dsinsleif seem to be more related to space (their capes and other stuff) and that both the primordial one and Dainsleif seem to care more about humans than other stuff.
"Some say a few are chosen and the rest are drags but I say we humans have our humanity!"
I know it's waaaaaay too early for this theory/thought and that it doesn't have much of a base to stand on + there's not information for it, but I just thought this might be an interesting idea.
The primordial onenis the erminsil tree I'm calling it
Just something that I thought of when I was thinking about how since the nether realm is a different realm (where Enkanomiya fell) thus time can pass differently. Assuming that time moves slower here than in Teyvat, all biological beings would technically age slower resulting in their lifespans being WAY longer in comparison to people/beings from Teyvat which may explain the inconsistency in the timeline (a bit). Going back to the theory about how Kaeya may be the crown prince from Khaenriah and the only thing which made this theory inconsistent would be the time.Given Khaenriah could access Enkanomiya before they made it back to the surface could indicate that they themselves existed in a realm which is connected to the one Enkanomiya is in. This could mean time may have moved slowly even here, which could explain how his father survived long enough with a plan for Khaenriah and thus leaving Kaeya in Mondstadt on his mission.
Edit : In context to one of your previous videos about how Genshin and Honkai are related, we see Dvalin show up on one of the screens of the group of operatives who were monitoring other universes in hopes they may find the solution to defeating/escaping the Honkais, but it was concluded that none of them escape Honkais (which should then also include the Genshin Universe since we know it was being monitored as well). As from what Enjou said, Celestia is very probable to "not being from this world" meaning they do not come from Teyvat. What if these Honkai beings took a different approach of getting rid of humanity, since in the Honkai universe they can fight and resist them (which to an oppressor/obliterator I imagine would be quite a headache) ? What if Celestia consists of just Honkais who came and disrupted the rule of the Primordial gods to take control of humanity and in due course exterminate them (Which may explain how the unified nation which Enkanomiya was a part of may have come to an end) ? People who may hold the power to fight off against Celestia should they learn of the truth are given visions and can be "ascended" to Celestia, which in this case I assume would be a prison of sorts (reference to how Vanessa successfully revolted against the noble rule and emerged victorious and then she ascended to Celestia) ? Only thing that I cannot seem to fit into the equation would be the Archons or the other godly beings (like Orobashi) and their origins/ how they come into being. Also since we know the sky is fake, and looking at how Celestia obliterated the civilisation in Dragonspine by dropping the skyfrost nial and the underground ancient civilisation of Tsurumi by dropping something which caused the fog we encounter when we first get introduced to Tsurumi, could it be that Celestia is trying to erase all traces of the ancient civilistaions or rather the truth of the world ? (from the unified culture taking into consideration how the architecture is similar in these places inculding the murals ; I would argue these civilisations rather branched off from the unified civilisation and hence would have some idea about the world during the rule of the Primordial Gods).
I took a really good amount of time just observing Enkanomiya and trying to get all the greek references there. There is A LOT there, and the most surpring part is that all of it is "optional content".
After learning that Kairos is the Thousand Winds, I teleported back to Mondstadt and went to the secret island to see if there would be any references there, and I found out that the symbol on the floor is similar to the symbol of the Spiral Abyss' entrance. I don't know if they are the same symbol, or what the heck that means, it is just something that left me more confused than before lmao. Funny how Mondstadt is the nation associated the most with the Abyss and one of the sades (Kairos). It also makes me wonder if the things in the secret island were broken and thrown there on purpose, like Pilos' peak (Orobashi also didn't like mentions to Kairos among the people).
The other thing about Enkanomiya is the huge amount of seelies down there, meaning they fell down with Enkanomiya itself 6000+ years ago(?), which for me is weird, because I think the Seelies themselves represent one of the demons of Ars Goetiah (Seere -> guided people to hidden treasures; maybe it is a name pun like Eris = Arisu = Alice?), which would mean they existed at the same time as Morax? Idk, I left Enkanomiya with more questions than answers haha
It is amazing how Genshin's hidden lore is also giving importance to old content that people won't remember that much, like Lisa's Story quest. We know now why the Abyss is looking for forbidden books on all nations, and why Lisa chose to mark that specific book with Elemental Energy to be able to track it.
Now I want a Razor story quest pt2 with more Andrius lore and a Varka introduction. But it is very sad that all 4* characters are getting the hangout treatment now, and the 5*s get the gourmet hangout treatment as "story quests", and all the lore is hidden on sidequests, like Enkanomiya.
Great video as always!
Some random feelings I got :
- The duality of Chronos/Kairos reminds me the duality of Belzebul/Baal with eternity and transient.
- The 7 childs got some specific personality that reminds me the 7 sins
A child who wants a bigger tower than Helios
A child who just looks at women body
A child who sings when he wants
A child who stays in bed
A child who wants to know everything even the future
(Sorry forgot the last 2)
I know it's easy 7, like the 7 archons too can be associate with the sins but meh that's what I experienced talking to each of them.
The achievement you get after giving the coral branch to the shrine maiden reminds me of the tale of the bamboo cutter or the tale of princess Kaguya
on the note of the anemoi, i have a theory
i believe dvalin is a false wind, you see in the mythology of anemoi, it refers to 4 seperate characters (boreas, zephyrus, notus and eurus) they represent the four cardinal directions and the 4 seasons, interestingly there's a character in mondstat that fits that, the wolf of the north, boreas who also happens to wield both anemo and cryo (fun fact, the roman equivalents of these four are aquilo, favonius, auster and vulturnus, when means that the weapon aquila favonia roughly translates to north west and the organisation "the knights of favonius" means knights of the west). the number 4 in cryo also has a position in genshin since there are 4 "energy elements" (i don't think their actually called that but that's what i like to call them) being pyro, cryo, electro and hydro. these can be linked to the seasons, pyro is the hot summer, cryo is the cold winter, hydro is the post-thaw spring and electro is autumn since that's the only one left ¯\_(ツ)_/¯.
that means that there were 4 winds, one of which was boreas, the lion of the south would represent summer in relation to the anemoi, which is interesting since the ragnvindr clan (diluc's clan) was one of the notable allies in vanessa's rebellion (vanessa being the first liontooth knight). the falcon of the west is conflicted mainly between the entire favonius foundation or vanessa, but since it's described as a flag when they talk about how it was defeated, i'm tempted to believe it's the knights (not to mention that their name is the romanized version of the anemoi of the west) and i believe vanessa to be the lion of the south and that she was a pyro vision user.
with those ideas in mind, since boreas and vanessa both seem to be heavily influenced by their seasonal element you would think the same of the west and east winds, since the falcon is a group of people there's a pretty decent reason for them not to be heavily attuned to hydro but they are positioned in the middle of a lake with the only connection to land being a single bridge (seems like an awful position in a war but if their heavily attuned to water then it would make sense). dvalin on the other hand is supposedly the genshin equivalent of eurus the god of autumn and supposedly electro, but he isn't, instead being oriented towards sheer wind, although in ancient greek mythology eurus didn't have a season since the seasonal cycle back then consisted entirely of summer, winter and spring but genshin has these *four* elements that can swirl with anemo, while electro feels out of place since it isn't common in nature, it is still considered as such.
so all of this unpacking is leading to my conclusion, that dvalin isn't one of the four winds but instead a replacement for the true east wind, the first reason is that he is much stronger then the other winds, being able to take on durin alone after the other winds failed to defeat it and although he is on the same level as boreas in the weekly bosses, one of them is beating them down until they screw off and the other is popping a couple of pimples. next is that although we already know he doesn't use any electro, he also has no affinity for autumn (if autumn even happens in teyvat since we only know about it from what npcs say), lastly is that he existed before the archons as the elemental dragon of wind, which not only builds on my earlier point of him being a lot stronger but also that he is at the same level as, if not higher then venti so i believe his role as the dragon of the west is a sort of favour to venti and there was someone else in that role before him.
Mucky-wucky, what a fun word! Love your lore and great knowledge of many things and the way you present it.
I'm watching this video at 1am so I'm tired and don't have the brain cells to type a whole reddit post, but I'm interested in seeing someone look deeper into the venti and kairos connection, including the nameless island quest we did AGES AGO in mondstadt.
Your voice is really sweet and suitable for lore and quest explaination videos. Hope you do well.
Please consider doing a video on Venti! I always found that sneaky bard to be the most secretive out of every character. I also think it's telling that even though we're two years into the game, his story quest is still on part 1 while Zhongli's and Ei's have already gotten to No2 (Mihoyo really wanted to be done with Ei asap). Also I'm Greek and I want to thank you so much for using Greek names in your analysis and recap. It's much easier to make connections when I have the original names in mind instead of their Inazuman versions. Thank you for going through the trouble of making this video! I love your work and your videos reignite my interest in the story of the game.
PS: If you ever need help finding something in Greek or need to look through Greek sources to clarify something I'd be happy to help!
I've accepted that whomever the writers are for this story don't do anything without purpose; note that in the books they very purposely point out the word 'moment' when explaining the time god existing in all 3 phases of time as a 'moment'.
STOOOP i typed that early on for you to only mention it down the line in the video haha.
I have the same conclusion about gold - after we found out who just Gold is during the second act of Albedos story i refuse to see Gold as anything other than a martyr for Khanriah just like Orobashi. With how Celestial is portrayed thus far the act of a martyr is definitely something that would be written into their style, and something tells me that the Dendro archon was also a martyr. Just like you my mind raced with speculation and timelines along with how im confident Zhongli knows more than he leads on being part dragon he is one of the original inhabitants of Ark. I have so much that i put together after that lore dump but also alot more questions - I hope you touch on the 'Seeds' aspect of the books. I know the Vishap experiments were to touch on the blood coral but the mention of the seeds and their elemental affinity really lead me down a rabbit hole of the Visions originating from dragonkins and not god made - Zhongli didnt even really know about visions and Ei doesn't know their working either. After reading about how the mother dragons are able to hold multiple seeds i just spiraled with specilation.
when you pointed out that kairos is similar to venti in his description, my mouth just went AGAPE. and theres always that one moment where i go :O "OOOOH" in your videos lmao. great as always
I'm not too sure the Second Throne War is actually the Archon War, the former is described as more of an invasion of enemy gods that destroyed the world, while the latter was more of a contest set up by Celestia to see who would become the Seven. This would make Enka way older thus warranting an explanation for the time paradox even more, I think that expanded lifetimes or a messed up flow of time are pretty good explanations, after all Enka is said to have a ley line disorder and has "nether realm" properties, aside from the presence of Kairos
Can't wait!!! (After watching the video) I'm so glad I got the notification to watch this! Love your videos
Did you know that during the Aberaku quest you can talk to a maiden at the Watatsumi shrine called Aberaku? And after the quest she is no longer called Aberaku... She even has dialogues that Aberaku would say, like talking about the Helios tower. Me and one of my friend experienced this.
Just found this and i love it. I play GI largely because of the lore. You tell it like my favorite True Crime Vlogger (you sound like her too)
Hello, I know this isn’t particularly connected to Ekonoimia, but I was recently rewatching the genshin world building videos and I noticed something. You mentioned that the stars were places in an mondola pattern in the sky when you look straight up, in the recent albedo/dragon spine event from last patch if you look closely at the cutscenes where you first interact with the imposter albedo, right before it gets stabbed as it is gaining or charging some kind of attack. It looks exactly like the pattern of stars you see in the sky, and because It was created by (forgot her name lol) I thought they might be connected in some way. Just something interesting I wanted to share, even though I’m a bit late. Keep up the awesome videos!
i saw a theory based on barbatos and istaroth:
istaroth, The God of Time, was worshipped in Mondstadt (In the past together with Barbatos himself),and in Enkanomiya (as Istaroth was the only one who helped the people of Enkanomiya when it sunk long before the archon war) Istaroth also had control over the winds thus the phrase “the winds of time”, is usually seen around (like the nameless island and raiden character story). Not only that Istaroth is one of the four shades created by the Primordial One. The Primordial One is the progenitor god who came to teyvat from another world who battled the seven , The Primordial One is the progenitor god who came to teyvat from another world who battled the seven and earth for the sake of humanity. Also, the Primordial One might be the “creator” talked about in traveller who has “yet to return”. so what if barbatos is actually one of the strongest in teyvat? considering the fact that he came from Istaroth and Istaroth came from the Primordial One, what if Barbatos has some connection to the Primordial One and may be the one able to call upon the Primordial One to return to Teyvat and see how corrupted Celestia has become (due to them destroying Khaenri’ah). If this is true, this may be what Dain is referring to in his line “We will defy this world from the power from beyond”
9:00
I like to imagine Orobashi agreed to be a god because... Weirdly specific, but there's this running joke where people with social anxiety suddenly stop having anxiety if they're helping their friend. Like "I can't order food for myself because I'm too nervous to talk to the waitress BUT IF MY FRIEND DIDN'T GET ENOUGH ICE IN HER WATER I AM CALLING THAT WAITRESS IMMEDIATELY" lmaoo.
Point being, Orobashi was losing but he found these small weak humans and it's fun to think this gave him some amount of purpose, or even bravery, much like that anxious friend.
I love your theory vids. I'm new to this place and it has already covered a lot of the things I think about when I play the game.
The active way you explain things is amazing abd that friendly cheery lively tone of voice makes the person, or me at least, want to sit and listen. Better than any school lecture tbh imo.
Enkanomiya is a very mysterious interesting place. It gave a lot of info to ponder on. Since it's connected to the Abyss, I half expected dain to show up too but alas, he didn't...
Can we all appreciate this woman’s effort, time and skill put into this video???
Every theory/speculation you make are absolute masterpieces (I also love your voice btw)
I like to think that Enkonomiya people were a primordial civilization but they fell underground, way before Morax's birth, and were in stuck in time for a few millennia's, until Orobashi came there, and took the remaining survivors to the surface.
I just about wrapped up Enkanomiya today (yeah I took my sweet time) I don't know why you hate "Before Sun and Moon", reading it practically gave me a loregasm. I understand why Orobashi needed to die after reading it. It basically confirms Celestia overthrew what was once basically a paradise for humans, also confirms Teyvat is an ark, an ark which CAPSIZED at some point in its history. Followers of this channel may best appreciate the significance of this little detail.
All in all, it was fantastic. It answered a lot of questions, and raised twice as many, which is what we want right? Right? That's basically CONTENT for this channel...
Hang in there Ashikai! You can piece this puzzle together, I believe in you!
Ashikai in 2.4: there must be BIGGER, MEANIER, SCARIER ADVANCED ROBOTS out there
Me watching this vid in 3.1 after seeing Ruin Golems: ಠ_ಠ
Wonderful recap, Teacher. This area is so interesting that i, when first entering it, felt that it warped space or it was displaced from the world and it's history.
Also, that timeline may be distorted but it's a good start.
Personally I haven't gotten to finish Enkanomiya yet, my grandmother passed away recently so I haven't had the energy/will, but I played for a bit.
I just hope Mihoyo doesn't remove the area as per usual so I can't ever finish it.
My take away from this video though, is that Venti is suss, but I've thought Venti is suss for some time.
He's supposed to be pretty much the "happy go lucky" trope, yet somehow he has the power to become one of the archons and still retains the ability to guide souls after losing his "chess piece" and despite allegedly considering the traveller as a friend and knowing the travellers goals he has not offered up any information that can assist us regarding either Khaenri'ah or our sibling.
27:57 It's not the first time they use a deity's name as a mortal's in Genshin. In Dragonspine, you can find an ice Lawachurl called Ukko, who we later learn is a cursed priest from the era of Sal Vindagnyr. Ukko "is the god of the sky, weather, harvest and thunder in Finnish mythology" (source: Wikipedia)
In Honkai Star Rail we meet a character called Sampo. The Sampo in Finnish Mythology "is a magical device or object described in many different ways that was constructed by the blacksmith Ilmarinen and that brought riches and good fortune to its holder (akin to the horn of plenty [cornucopia] of Greek mythology). When the Sampo was stolen, Ilmarinen's homeland fell upon hard times. He sent an expedition to retrieve it, but in the ensuing battle it was smashed and lost at sea" (source: again, Wikipedia)
It's not unlike miHoYo to take these kinds of names and name their characters as such, but it's always fun to speculate on the relationships between their names and their mythological counterparts (if any exists)
Being named after a god isn't unusual, yeah. However, they're being named after "primordial gods" specifically. If you want to build a creation myth around Phanes, but then name normal people after the primordial gods involved with Phanes, then I'm gonna raise an eyebrow at it. Using the names of the sons of Apollo? No biggie. Notable historical figures like Spartacus? Fine. Gods from a latter pantheon like Hestia, Hera, etc? No sweat.
But Erebus? Abraxas? Chronus? Ananke? Kaos? It's that first pantheon of Orphic gods that I'm confused over.
@@Ashikai Yeah, that's true. And now I'm thinking that it's the first instance of this happening? Honestly, Enkanomiya answered some questions but left us with many, many more.
the problem with "time moves slower in enkanomiya" that means when the traveler go back to tevyat after expedition on enkanomiya, time would have passed a lot.
Yeeeeep.
I thought of the exact same thing. No one mentions anything out of place like damn you took a long ass time in Enkonomiya.
Honestly I think Mihoyo/hoyoverse doesn’t always have some grand symbolism behind its names (it definitely does sometimes, but not always) for example, using Favonius for the knights, which was the Latin version of the north wind, when a lot of the naming is Greek (Venti, Anemo, Boreas, all the stuff mentioned in this video) sometimes I feel like the naming just comes down to what sounds right, which is why Ashikai’s video’s are so cool because she takes the time to try and parse it all out. Anyway desperately waiting for the next semester so I can start taking a Homeric Greek class and become even more nerdy about Genshin lore. Also, I kind of wonder if Celestia has some sort of weakness, and there’s a hint to it in Before Sun and Moon, which could be why Celestia wanted Orobashi killed for reading it, and why Khan’ria was searching for it. Maybe the hint could have been buried in translation or linguistic drift? Another note I had about Enkanomiya is how there was often an electro abyss lector or mage next to the Sunchildren’s tombs, which almost makes me think that khan’ria had some connection with the Sunchildren specifically? Because it kinda seemed like they were guarding the tombs.
See, speculative and non-solid as it is, I have a much greater understanding of Enkanomiya because of this video. Whereas when I I first experienced it, I had no idea of what anything was or meant. I quite literally just quest-progressed and didn't understand the whole way.😂 So, thank you for this.
I am WAY to stupid to understand the whole Enkanomiya lore so I’m glad this video exists. Thanks for making it easy to understand
*"This book is the bane of my existence as a theorist."*
*FNaF Community: "First time?"*
It would make sense for time to be measured differently in Enkanomiya for various reasons. Enkanomiya was once a civilization that lived in the surface and fell to the underground, it is said in the book that after the land fell the citizen divided themselves into small nomad groups that had to constantly escape the vishaps, some generations passed in complete darkness, how did the first underground generations meassure time in complete darkness after having lived under the sun? also, some generations or time passes before they construct the artificial light, because it is said in the book that from one of these small nomad groups, only one contain a person who had seen the sun, this person gave the knowledge of the sun to one of his disciples, and it is this disciple the one who constructs the tower for the artificial sun, after the tower is constructed it is the first time in at least a couple generations that the people can finally reside in only one place, as the light from the tower prevented the vishaps from getting close to the new city, leading way for the fighting over power now that there is more of a society in place, still, now they had a light cycle, there was hours of light and hours of darkness, but how can we assume that these cycles were the same as they are on the surface? days could have been longer and night shorter to avoid vishaps getting to close at night, even if they did a 24 hour day cycle, how are we to know when a year ends or begins, There are no seasons in enkanomiya, so it is very hard to assume they meassure time in the same way as they do in the surface.
So cool how ur bringing up orphism, my nerd brain has been tickled.
Super late, but u/lovomileen on reddit put up a nicely organized post about Venti around the same time as this video! One of the things that really stood out to me watching this after that post was that Venti has a line in the Mondstadt story line about knowing every song from the past, present, or future - which felt eerily close to the description for Kronos. I'm no lore expert but that in combination with his Hello line, Feelings about Ascension: Conclusion line, and the dichotomy of his Chat: Ballads and About Venti line makes me feel like he (or the thousand winds as a whole) are more of a counterpart to the god or time rather than an aspect or branch of her.
Welp. Either way, great video! Time for me to go watch the corrections and part 2
Before this video i just know that Oboroshi was a snake that got sliced by Raiden. He's a cool dude!
This is the only correct way to explain tons of Genshin lore. It's why I usually dont pay attention to it, but Enkanomiya is such a curveball of content I needed to find something.
There was something in the quest that was said, I can’t remember what since it’s been so long now, that gave me the idea that Enkanomiya was actually it’s own pocket dimension separate from both the Abyss and the surface world - yet accessible to both (and even other unknown dimensions) through special portals which is how monsters exist there. Also something about the Vishaps, as the first sentient inhabitants of Teyvat, being purposefully imprisoned in this pocket dimension. If I remembered that correctly and it really is a completely different dimension/reality, then that might explain the time stuff.
I'd like to point out that in Enkanomyia time is definitely moves not the same like in overworld. The thing on top is not just the big lomp, it actually switches the day/night cycle in this place
In fact, Enkanomyia is only available through a strange portal, which is almost like it is actually was whipped out of existence very literally, so it landed in sea of Quanta, aka the Abyss
And the name for dragons is WishUp
so yes i would like to think that Enkanomyia is in the Abyss as well as Khaenri'ah. And wishups are honkai beasts
Not without your help i just imagine the whole Teywat now as a floating universe torn off from the tree or rising on top of it and now literally being between two trees whose god are fighting for power or maybe Celestia gods are just local quanta sea warlords or something
This video is like a year old, but in regards to the timeline stuff i heard of a theory based on the event quest we had ages ago (with xiao, yelan, itto, shinobu, yanfei; the one with the time stuff where they were stuck in a weird domain) about how everything is just a bunch of domains. like, that group had gotten stuck in an unknown domain, teyvat is one big giant domain, our teapot realm is a domain, and enkanomiya is in it's own domain, etc. and we know from that event quest that time works differently across domains, so that could potentially fill gaps in the enkanomiya timeline you made where things just aren't making sense. the timeline doesn't fit right because those separate places/domains were moving through time at different rates.
Edit: The Muses also lived on a mountain called Mount Helicon, Helicon having the root word Helix, which means Spiral, which is... quite the coincidence.
There is a better allegory/parallel for Istaroth than Kairos himself in terms of a goddess of time. I think MHY naming Istaroth as Kairos is a very cheeky misdirection tbh, or maybe they are mixing multiple entities of similar aspects into one, but Mnemosyne is actually a lot closer to the apparent actions that Istaroth has taken in record. Mnemosyne is the goddess of memorisation with the purpose of preserving history and stories and whatnot, which is exactly what the author of BSM - who is a self-proclaimed Scribe of Istaroth - did. In particular, she was more concerned with the passing on of oral stories and traditions, which might be why BSM reads like a bunch of footnotes at the start. Where I think this parallel gets even stronger is the fact that Mnemosyne was the mother of the Muses, the goddesses of music and all forms of performative arts. Though there are only 9 Muses in Greek Mythology, I think they still make a pretty great parallel for the Thousand Winds of Genshin, and Venti being one of them as Carmen Dei is more than plausible.
One more tiny detail is that the Seelie's design resembles that of a clione, the name of which is taken from Clio, who is one of the 9 Muses.
It's almost like listening to Yanfei melt down from a case info overload. :) In all seriousness though, I, too, have come to the conclusion that Enkanomiya has a sort of time displacement opposite to how the Abyss works. That or it's the Teyvat time bubble inside the Teyvat time bubble and the Abyss is where true time flows normally.
Heya Ashikai 👋👋
Awesome video really love the recap. I wanted to ask if there's a possibility that the flow of time in subterranean areas in Teyvat is not a constant. For example the popular theory is that the immense gravity around a Black Hole affects time (the closer to the event horizon the faster time proceeds. I think it's called Gravitational Time Dilation) so Enka would experience different time dilation to the area of the Abyss that TarTarTarglia fell into
Just thinking happy thoughts that maybe the god of time "fast forwarded" enkanomiya so they could meet orobashi to take care of them in a few hundred years instead of thousands.
Edit, never enough venti woohoo!! C999 venti incoming!!
I can't stop smiling cuz this lore/theory kinda match the game they are referring. Sky children of light. Although the game itself never explain it's lore and let the player/fandom come up with the lore while giving clues every now and then. It put a smile to my face seeing my two favorite game combine into one kinda hehe.
That's some really interesting speculation. I'm not sure how to solve the time problem either but the description of it as the underworld and mentions of such things as the Lethe river makes me thing it's definitely got it's own flow of time, maybe in part due to the lack of a natural day/night cycle. Beyond that it seemed like a fairly obvious allegory for Atlantis to me. That's the impression I got during the quest anyway.
In my opinion, I think that there are some assumptions that you are making that may be complicating the timeline. Maybe there is a simpler solution.
The main problem is the conclusion that Enkanomiya's time beneath the sea is only around ~200 years.
You reach this number by this assumptions:
1. 'Abrax/Aberaku has seen the real sun' .
This would mean the time between the fall of Enkanomiya and the Dainichi Mikoshi is less that 100 years. The only thing I found that supports this claim is the 'parable of the sun'. Being a parable, should not be taken literally and it that doesnt especify that the sage is Abrax either.
2. 'The sunchildren rule lasted around 80 years.'
I agree with this
3. 'The archon war was the coming of the 2nd Throne and the cause of the fall of Enkanomiya.'
We currently dont have any confirmation that this may be the case.
4. 'Orobashi wanted and started bringing his people to the surface as soon as he could.'
Due to the latest information, it is completly possible that Enkanomiya's people and Orobashi were fine living in the depths after their victory over the Dragonheirs. I think thar Orobashi only started with the migration plan due to his deal with Celestia. Even Enjou mentions that the moving of the country was caused by the reading of the book.
By these conclusions, we can stretch the time between Enkanomiya's fall and the Dainichi Mikoshi's creation as much as we want. Also, the descend of Orobashi could happen at any moment during the archon war, so his rule may have been between 100 to 1000 years.
This would also help explaining WHY Khaenriah was looking for the book Before Sun and Moon. There is no reason to look for a book like that if Khaenriah is as ancient as Enkanomiya. In that scenario they should have their own records of the creation and coming of the Primordial One. So I think that Enkanomiya's fall happened before Khaenriah was established as a nation.
Just a sidenote, I wont discard the possibility that the flow of time in Enkanomiya or the Abyss may be weird (different from the 'surface').
There are way to many mentions of time and its god in the Byakuyakoku collection for just dismissing the theory. Even Aberaku's opening lines are very cryptid about time and its flow.
I just wanted to share that it is also possible to place Enkanomiya's history in the timeline without time alteration shenanigans.
This is the most rational comment right here.
I didn't agree with the timeline in the video and you managed to express my thoughts perfectly. It almost seems like many generations went by when they lived in darkness and when they lived in the light including Orobashi's time.
I think the war with the second who came fits better with the fall of the moon sisters since the text reads as follows: "the heavens collapsed and the earth was rent asunder."
@@Legolaaa I agree with You on both poins. While exploring Enkanomiya and readings its lore I felt that it was a civilization that spend countless generations underground. There are other texts that support this notion, like the mention that Enkanomiya has really detailed recordings due to the fact that they lacked celestial objects to keep track of the passage of time.
I also think that it very likely that the coming of the 2nd throne may be related to the demise of the 3 moons due to the wording. Also it would allign better with the ancient Mural depictions of Tsurumi and Dragonspine. For now it is a nice guess
Definitely agree with all these points. I think the timeline problem that was introduced in the video really hinges on the assumption that the war against the second throne that caused Enkanomiya to fall to the depths is the same war as the archon war, which, to my understanding, are two separate wars entirely - the former being the war between the Primordial One and The Second Who Came, and the latter being power struggles between multiple gods over the seats of The Seven.
The artwork and visuals in Genshin Impact are beautiful. Nicely done!
It might be incorrect to assume that the robots we see in Enkanomiya have been there since the last day of Enkanomiya (when the Khaenri'ahn delegation arrived). The newer models (the Ruin Sentinels) could have been developed after Enkanomiya was abandoned, then snuck in during one of the occasions where the seal was opened for the people of Watatsumi to descend and retrieve the Blood Coral. After all, they're all over the Inazuman Islands. Plus, the shrine maiden even warns that some monsters or people might have entered Enkanomiya before us during the world quest to unlock Enkanomiya. I think this was just foreshadowing on the writers' parts to prep us for Enjou, but it could also explain the presence of advanced robots in Enkanomiya.
We also know that the Ruin Guard that was concealing Before Sun and Moon in Antigonus' quest was an older model than the ones we see above ground, since its core looks different from the Chaos Cores we can collect from Ruin Guards on the surface. Its description even states, "The core section of a Ruin Guard. Old and new versions of this device are incompatible..." Presumably, if we're taking game mechanics into account, the other Ruin Guards we see in Enkanomiya could also have arrived at a later date with the Ruin Sentinels, seeing as they are newer models than the one in Antigonus' quest.
Finally. It's not just me being confused with the timeline of Enkanomiya. I NEEDED this validation.
IVE BEEN WAITING FOR THIS SINCE I HATE READING
tysm for uploading about Enkonomiya!
Can’t wait for Ashikai’s Genshin timeline to look like game theory’s fnaf timeline XD