I've heard stories of early "saints" suffering, but it was hard to take in how truly horrifying they are because it was always presented as being worth it. It was also quite a shock to read about early Mormons' behavior - no wonder no one wanted them around! I hope people send you stories, I'm also hearing more realistic accounts!
I think the best way to honor the people that suffered so much is to tell their stories as they are without glamorizing them. Thank you for sharing them. This makes me want to deep dive into my own mormon heritage.
I descend from a third-great-grandmother who was a second wife, relegated to living on her own with her young children in a literal dirt dugout in Richfield, UT while the husband seldom visited and lived mainly with his first wife in an actual house in Nephi, UT (miles north). That is, until the first manifesto, when he went into hiding in SLC area to evade federal authorities who were rounding up and arresting polygamists, leaving my grandmother even more on her own (he did direct his older sons from his first wife to go help my grandmother when they could, but he was entirely out of the picture). So faith-affirming to put people in these situations only to find out God changes his mind on just how crucial all this BS is for salvation.....
On the one who divorced, remarried, divorced, and went back to the previous husband- it's extremely likely to me that the religious leaders told her they would not give her help and to go back to her ex and beg his forgiveness. Why do I solidly believe this? Because they did that to my mom. My mom followed all the rules. Got married young without her degree, had lots of kids, was a homemaker for 10 years, divorced her husband, and denied any support from the church. Bishop stood at the pulpit and said, "we don't help families of divorce." She was denied church assistance and was told by many bishops that she should "go back to her ex and beg for his forgiveness". He was already remarried and that meant nothing to them.
It’s a struggle of most religion, but the most prominent in Mormonism and other fundamentalist religions. It’s horrifying to see those people’s suffer became “faith inducing stories” that the actual problem and pain are glossed over. It’s disgusting. You have a strong mind to go through such scary things and bloody stories, Lexi! Props to you, great work!
True! And in the 21st century many have come to realize the consequences of the barbaric nature of older times. However with mormons a lot of these foundations are practiced in secret ceremonies. 2023 and my brother just got married in a LD$ temple to his 3rd wife😂 FLD$ - LD$ still think when they die they get all wives back and continue with spirit babies😅
My great-great grandmother was a polygamous wife. She was one of the English girls fooled into coming to Utah. They weren't told that they were destined to polygamy.
Thank you for sharing these! So many women condemned to polygamy, isolated from any and all support with literally no way to get help. And children who had no choice regardless. I can only imagine how terrifying that must have been. No wonder so many claims are made about faith. Because the reality that they went through all that for nothing would be near-impossible to accept, both then and now. Finally they have a voice that isn’t controlled by the patriarchy.
"Pioneer children sang as they walk, and walked, and walked, and walked..." I'd never thought about how fucked up that song is before, so thanks for that
I LOVE learning women's history! I've seen a lot of vids about the patriarchs, but it's a LOT harder to learn about girls and women in the Mormon community. Thank you for your service! ALSO, you may LOVE Women Without Superstition: No Gods, No Masters by Annie Laurie Gaylor. It gives profiles of many strong and beautiful godless women. Find it and many other great books in the bookstore at Freedom From Religion Foundation. BIG LOVE to you and your fam. Be well.
I'm an atheist but I love hearing about history particularly through The eyes of the people who live through it. I think you have a very interesting project here with the pioneer stories.
Omg the AMOUNT of pioneer movies I watched growing up with the church 💀😭 Some of those movies traumatized me seeing pioneers getting brutally attacked or just flat out suffering in the cold for the value of “sacrifice for the Lord 😍😍✨✨” And now knowing that there was polygamy there wasn’t just 17 miracles but 17 wives
Growing up in Iowa there are so many sites where the Mormon Pioneers crossed the state, and sadly many graves... The fact that the handcart trail crossed our farm, later becoming a stage coach trail and a route on the Underground Railroad has always fascinated me... I've often wondered about their stories and if they made it to their destination. John Brown and his followers came thru here on his eventual way to Harper's Ferry & destiny, how many others had amazing stories that have been lost to time?
I had to look it up. In 1840 5 Dollars is equivalent to $177 today. A peck is equivalent to 8 quarts. So 8 quarts of corn for $5 is an extravagant price. Some one was price gauging.
I've been on an ex-mo binge recently, and what i find most interesting is that your reading of historical polygamous relationships are so similar to modern stories, particularly those of the Kingston clan with wives being taken abandoned and robbed.
Omg this story made me recall that awful primary song, Primary Children Sang as They Walked and Walked and Walked and Walked. My brothers and my friends and I would sing that song and sing, “and walked and walked..” about 100 times to make fun of the song lol 😝
I find all the pioneer stories really interesting bc it really humanizes them and gives them a little bit of a voice. We can read about it all day long but we’ll never truly know the depression and anxieties they had to endure. They didn’t have antidepressants or anything to help with a disorder and I don’t doubt those existed back then. Not like it would help much bc their experiences were just so awful.
When I was a tbm these stories made me feel guilty for questioning the church. Now as a exmo I see these as terrible. The generations of people who have been lied to. So sad to think of the sacrifice still being made for lies.
The story you discussed about mobs forcing Mormons from their homes, and then burning them, sounds like what happened to outlying Mormon farms southwest of Carthage in September 1846. I suspect the account probably was embellished in that the mobs probably didn't come back three times. They likely only went once and pulled everyone from the house and burned it. Why the anti-Mormons resorted to violence at this time is not altogether clear but was probably triggered by two events. Jacob Backenstos, an ardent pro-Mormon, had just been elected sheriff of Hancock County courtesy of the Mormon block vote as directed by Bigham Young. The old settlers were rightly concerned that Backenstos would settle all disputes in favor of the Saints. Also, a recent circuit court grand jury composed entirely of Mormons had refused to hear any evidence against other Mormons. Essentially, the rule of law within Hancock County had collapsed, and the Mormons were free to do whatever they wanted to the old settlers. Most historians in the past have summarily dismissed the rampant claims of theft by Mormons against the old citizens. However, it was a highly significant problem and very real. The old citizens knew the Mormons would only steal more with Backensots as sheriff and the Mormons having complete control of local juries. I'm not excusing the anti-Mormons for burning the farms. I'm merely providing their likely reasons for doing it. At this juncture, the Gentiles had three choices: They could live under the unending tyranny of the Mormons, leave Illinois, or fight back. They chose to fight back, with encouragement from non-Mormon citizens of surrounding counties who realized their communities would be the next to be subjugated by the Mormons as more and more kept piling in from Europe. The whole affair is even more complex than Mormon vs. non-Mormon. The anti-Mormon vigilantes were small in number and not supported by all non-Mormons. However, after massive mobs of Mormons stopped the anti-Mormon farm burnings, the Mormon mobs, under the sheriff's direction, laid siege to Carthage for nine days and pillaged the surrounding non-Mormons in retribution. Many uninvolved, innocent farmers around Carthage had their farms indiscriminately plundered by Mormons at this time. But you probably won't ever find this mentioned in any Mormon pioneer journals. Thanks for sharing all your stories. They are great!
Thanks lex this was a great video! So sad to hear about their stories, it's truly horrific what the husbands would do to the wives they didn't like. I would love to hear more pioneer stories, they are truly fascinating and in my opinion some of the most heartbreaking and compelling arguments against the church. I said this last time, but I'll try to get an email to you about my ancestors Eliza and Emily Partridge. Eliza kept a diary and unfortunately it's only little paragraphs or sentences every couple weeks after a certain point but it really goes through all the death and heartbreak for her surprisingly long life. It details a little her time at the Smith home too and it's not hard to figure out what she was feeling then. Her sister said she had kept a different diary during that time but burned it so we don't know what she said, but if it was burned I can guess she wasn't feeling too appreciative to the Lord in those moments.
Thank you @Exmo Lex. Great video. Anyone wanting a VERY DEEP dive into early mormon history should listen to Last Podcast on the Left series Mormonsim. It's six episodes most 2 or more hours long. The first 5 episodes are pretty much all about JSjr, the "revelations", the early church in OH, MO, and IL, and then the trek across the plains, and early church in UT.
I’m an excatholic and these accounts remind me so much of the stories Catholics tell about the saints from throughout history. They really glorify suffering and martyrdom and sexual “purity” and the stories of suffering are told in a way that is meant to show how impressive it is that the saints were able to remain faithful despite the obstacles. From the outside, framing stories like this is incredibly harmful. It conditions people (and especially women) to put up with abuse and horrible life circumstances and almost wear it as a badge of honor instead of trying to change things.
I can relate as I'm an excatholic, too. These days I have a friendly quarrel with a nun friend about whether St. Thérèse de Lisieux was happy or if she lived in a lot of emotional pain and suffering and died early because of deep loneliness and stress from her attachment wounds from childhood combined with the harsh life in the convent. My impression from her diary is that she experienced meaning and a kind of peace, but also that she really felt abandoned and alone and that she was denying herself even innocent pleasures thinking that the loving God wanted her to suffer.
My grandmother could not deal with the New younger wives and so early in the history of electro shock therapy they killed her and buried face down in an unmarked grave. Right now I am holding the worst modern day scandal yet and not sure how to get it out. Blessings sister ❤
Its too bad to that the church always twists the story into a faith affirming story when in reality its a awful story that she be a warning to not join lol
But I thought the whole point of polygamy was to take care of the women, bc so many men were dying back then. Hmm...seems like even THAT Mormon apologist argument has absolutely no bearing whatsoever. These women would've been better off alone.
There's a book called Under the Banner of Heaven. part of it is about Mormon fundamentalism- modern Mormon fundamentalism. there's a woman in it who has sister wives. through polygamy, she became her stepmom's stepmom. I'm not joking.
Zion... makes it sound like the 'promised land', but really itv was freaking Utah😂 I mean, it's pretty desolate & barren with a freaking SALT lake😂 you can't dri k it or use for irrigation. It sounds more like the 3rd ring of Hell😅 Especially back then😮 Why did they stop in Utah? They could have continued to Oregon, Washington, California....
Nothing goes well when a man married more than one woman. You don't have to look far to find examples either. A major example: Jacob, Rachel, and Leah.
In the 21st century we've learned the severe consequences of practicing the barbaric nature of religions and cults. But the foundations of LD$- FLD$- RLD$ are still believed and practiced. 😢
I appreciate the struggle you've had leaving a religious cult - I work in cult apologetics and have encountered the trauma and emotional issues facing so many who realize that their religion was a lie. Mormonism is not a Christian religion, and rejects the cross. The cross is an ancient Christian symbol, used since the earliest time of the Church to point to the sacrifice of Christ - Jesus death on the Cross to pay the sin debt of those who place their faith in Him. Do you really think its appropriate to disparage that Christian symbol by wearing an upside down Cross? As an Anglican (hardly a hardcore cult), who loves the Cross, I'd appeal to you to please consider that wearing a cross like that is an attack on all Christians - and since Mormons never wear a cross, nor love it as a symbol of faith, wearing an upside down cross has nothing to do with leaving Mormonism at all. Thank you, however, for your videos.
Ok so you have some of your history wrong here. The house burning incident occurred in Illinois, not Missouri. Yes Missouri did issue a death order for Mormons in around 1839. But Governor Ford of Illinois ( who was often supportive of the Mormons) after the death of Joseph Smith told the Mormons in Illinois he could not protect them and so an agreement was reached for them to leave Nauvoo in Illinois. This was in 1845-46, years after the Mormons were thrown out of Missouri. Of course the brave leader Brigham Young was in the fist group to leave. The last to leave were the sick and very poor. Emma Smith did not leave she stayed in her house. As you stated the facts are not simple and this is an oversimplification but the trek west did not start from Missouri but from Nauvoo.
You may be thinking of a different house-this is my personal family history, so the info I was going off is from our own records. I assume there was more than one house burned down.
As far as where the trek started, that is as individual as the people who made the trek. For example, some people made the trip west from as far as Europe.
I've heard stories of early "saints" suffering, but it was hard to take in how truly horrifying they are because it was always presented as being worth it. It was also quite a shock to read about early Mormons' behavior - no wonder no one wanted them around! I hope people send you stories, I'm also hearing more realistic accounts!
I think the best way to honor the people that suffered so much is to tell their stories as they are without glamorizing them. Thank you for sharing them. This makes me want to deep dive into my own mormon heritage.
I descend from a third-great-grandmother who was a second wife, relegated to living on her own with her young children in a literal dirt dugout in Richfield, UT while the husband seldom visited and lived mainly with his first wife in an actual house in Nephi, UT (miles north). That is, until the first manifesto, when he went into hiding in SLC area to evade federal authorities who were rounding up and arresting polygamists, leaving my grandmother even more on her own (he did direct his older sons from his first wife to go help my grandmother when they could, but he was entirely out of the picture). So faith-affirming to put people in these situations only to find out God changes his mind on just how crucial all this BS is for salvation.....
On the one who divorced, remarried, divorced, and went back to the previous husband- it's extremely likely to me that the religious leaders told her they would not give her help and to go back to her ex and beg his forgiveness.
Why do I solidly believe this? Because they did that to my mom.
My mom followed all the rules. Got married young without her degree, had lots of kids, was a homemaker for 10 years, divorced her husband, and denied any support from the church.
Bishop stood at the pulpit and said, "we don't help families of divorce."
She was denied church assistance and was told by many bishops that she should "go back to her ex and beg for his forgiveness". He was already remarried and that meant nothing to them.
It’s a struggle of most religion, but the most prominent in Mormonism and other fundamentalist religions. It’s horrifying to see those people’s suffer became “faith inducing stories” that the actual problem and pain are glossed over. It’s disgusting. You have a strong mind to go through such scary things and bloody stories, Lexi! Props to you, great work!
True! And in the 21st century many have come to realize the consequences of the barbaric nature of older times. However with mormons a lot of these foundations are practiced in secret ceremonies. 2023 and my brother just got married in a LD$ temple to his 3rd wife😂 FLD$ - LD$ still think when they die they get all wives back and continue with spirit babies😅
My great-great grandmother was a polygamous wife. She was one of the English girls fooled into coming to Utah. They weren't told that they were destined to polygamy.
Thank you for sharing these! So many women condemned to polygamy, isolated from any and all support with literally no way to get help. And children who had no choice regardless. I can only imagine how terrifying that must have been. No wonder so many claims are made about faith. Because the reality that they went through all that for nothing would be near-impossible to accept, both then and now. Finally they have a voice that isn’t controlled by the patriarchy.
"Pioneer children sang as they walk, and walked, and walked, and walked..." I'd never thought about how fucked up that song is before, so thanks for that
I LOVE learning women's history! I've seen a lot of vids about the patriarchs, but it's a LOT harder to learn about girls and women in the Mormon community. Thank you for your service!
ALSO, you may LOVE Women Without Superstition: No Gods, No Masters by Annie Laurie Gaylor. It gives profiles of many strong and beautiful godless women. Find it and many other great books in the bookstore at Freedom From Religion Foundation. BIG LOVE to you and your fam. Be well.
I'm an atheist but I love hearing about history particularly through The eyes of the people who live through it. I think you have a very interesting project here with the pioneer stories.
Omg the AMOUNT of pioneer movies I watched growing up with the church 💀😭 Some of those movies traumatized me seeing pioneers getting brutally attacked or just flat out suffering in the cold for the value of “sacrifice for the Lord 😍😍✨✨” And now knowing that there was polygamy there wasn’t just 17 miracles but 17 wives
Growing up in Iowa there are so many sites where the Mormon Pioneers crossed the state, and sadly many graves... The fact that the handcart trail crossed our farm, later becoming a stage coach trail and a route on the Underground Railroad has always fascinated me... I've often wondered about their stories and if they made it to their destination.
John Brown and his followers came thru here on his eventual way to Harper's Ferry & destiny, how many others had amazing stories that have been lost to time?
Yes please go into a video explaining the mobs and what actually went on. I'd be so interested to learn the truth and the reason behind it all
I had to look it up. In 1840 5 Dollars is equivalent to $177 today. A peck is equivalent to 8 quarts.
So 8 quarts of corn for $5 is an extravagant price. Some one was price gauging.
I've been on an ex-mo binge recently, and what i find most interesting is that your reading of historical polygamous relationships are so similar to modern stories, particularly those of the Kingston clan with wives being taken abandoned and robbed.
Wonderful heartbreaking story, we want more, so much luv from Italy ❤💔
Omg this story made me recall that awful primary song, Primary Children Sang as They Walked and Walked and Walked and Walked. My brothers and my friends and I would sing that song and sing, “and walked and walked..” about 100 times to make fun of the song lol 😝
I thought the same thing! And the stupid trek reenactment the youth did for a couple years. So glad I never had to do that!
@@suziqginger I did that year after year on Pioneer Day. It’s crazy how they made us feel honored to be a part of that. 😳
I find all the pioneer stories really interesting bc it really humanizes them and gives them a little bit of a voice. We can read about it all day long but we’ll never truly know the depression and anxieties they had to endure. They didn’t have antidepressants or anything to help with a disorder and I don’t doubt those existed back then. Not like it would help much bc their experiences were just so awful.
I love the history of all this... pls continue to share!
I'm really enjoying these videos about the pioneers. I would love to hear more.
When I was a tbm these stories made me feel guilty for questioning the church. Now as a exmo I see these as terrible. The generations of people who have been lied to. So sad to think of the sacrifice still being made for lies.
The story you discussed about mobs forcing Mormons from their homes, and then burning them, sounds like what happened to outlying Mormon farms southwest of Carthage in September 1846. I suspect the account probably was embellished in that the mobs probably didn't come back three times. They likely only went once and pulled everyone from the house and burned it. Why the anti-Mormons resorted to violence at this time is not altogether clear but was probably triggered by two events. Jacob Backenstos, an ardent pro-Mormon, had just been elected sheriff of Hancock County courtesy of the Mormon block vote as directed by Bigham Young. The old settlers were rightly concerned that Backenstos would settle all disputes in favor of the Saints. Also, a recent circuit court grand jury composed entirely of Mormons had refused to hear any evidence against other Mormons. Essentially, the rule of law within Hancock County had collapsed, and the Mormons were free to do whatever they wanted to the old settlers. Most historians in the past have summarily dismissed the rampant claims of theft by Mormons against the old citizens. However, it was a highly significant problem and very real. The old citizens knew the Mormons would only steal more with Backensots as sheriff and the Mormons having complete control of local juries. I'm not excusing the anti-Mormons for burning the farms. I'm merely providing their likely reasons for doing it. At this juncture, the Gentiles had three choices: They could live under the unending tyranny of the Mormons, leave Illinois, or fight back. They chose to fight back, with encouragement from non-Mormon citizens of surrounding counties who realized their communities would be the next to be subjugated by the Mormons as more and more kept piling in from Europe. The whole affair is even more complex than Mormon vs. non-Mormon. The anti-Mormon vigilantes were small in number and not supported by all non-Mormons. However, after massive mobs of Mormons stopped the anti-Mormon farm burnings, the Mormon mobs, under the sheriff's direction, laid siege to Carthage for nine days and pillaged the surrounding non-Mormons in retribution. Many uninvolved, innocent farmers around Carthage had their farms indiscriminately plundered by Mormons at this time. But you probably won't ever find this mentioned in any Mormon pioneer journals. Thanks for sharing all your stories. They are great!
The mob and burning the house reminded me of Django 😂
Thanks lex this was a great video! So sad to hear about their stories, it's truly horrific what the husbands would do to the wives they didn't like. I would love to hear more pioneer stories, they are truly fascinating and in my opinion some of the most heartbreaking and compelling arguments against the church. I said this last time, but I'll try to get an email to you about my ancestors Eliza and Emily Partridge. Eliza kept a diary and unfortunately it's only little paragraphs or sentences every couple weeks after a certain point but it really goes through all the death and heartbreak for her surprisingly long life. It details a little her time at the Smith home too and it's not hard to figure out what she was feeling then. Her sister said she had kept a different diary during that time but burned it so we don't know what she said, but if it was burned I can guess she wasn't feeling too appreciative to the Lord in those moments.
Thank you @Exmo Lex. Great video. Anyone wanting a VERY DEEP dive into early mormon history should listen to Last Podcast on the Left series Mormonsim. It's six episodes most 2 or more hours long. The first 5 episodes are pretty much all about JSjr, the "revelations", the early church in OH, MO, and IL, and then the trek across the plains, and early church in UT.
I’m an excatholic and these accounts remind me so much of the stories Catholics tell about the saints from throughout history. They really glorify suffering and martyrdom and sexual “purity” and the stories of suffering are told in a way that is meant to show how impressive it is that the saints were able to remain faithful despite the obstacles. From the outside, framing stories like this is incredibly harmful. It conditions people (and especially women) to put up with abuse and horrible life circumstances and almost wear it as a badge of honor instead of trying to change things.
I can relate as I'm an excatholic, too. These days I have a friendly quarrel with a nun friend about whether St. Thérèse de Lisieux was happy or if she lived in a lot of emotional pain and suffering and died early because of deep loneliness and stress from her attachment wounds from childhood combined with the harsh life in the convent. My impression from her diary is that she experienced meaning and a kind of peace, but also that she really felt abandoned and alone and that she was denying herself even innocent pleasures thinking that the loving God wanted her to suffer.
That's a good point.
My wife she left catholic and no one gave her any hassle, was loved by friends and relatives never given any trouble?
I can't wait for the history series! Thanks ExMoLex! Love your channel and content and commentary ❤❤❤❤❤
My grandmother could not deal with the New younger wives and so early in the history of electro shock therapy they killed her and buried face down in an unmarked grave. Right now I am holding the worst modern day scandal yet and not sure how to get it out. Blessings sister ❤
Sophronia, what a name. Where all those old names went? 😀
Really interested in these stories. Thanks for sharing
Great idea for a series
Great video!
Glad you enjoyed it🥰
Yes! Love the historical stuff and would love to see more videos like this!
Your content is worth sitting through that intro 😂 Keep em coming!
Its too bad to that the church always twists the story into a faith affirming story when in reality its a awful story that she be a warning to not join lol
But I thought the whole point of polygamy was to take care of the women, bc so many men were dying back then. Hmm...seems like even THAT Mormon apologist argument has absolutely no bearing whatsoever. These women would've been better off alone.
There's a book called Under the Banner of Heaven. part of it is about Mormon fundamentalism- modern Mormon fundamentalism. there's a woman in it who has sister wives. through polygamy, she became her stepmom's stepmom. I'm not joking.
Zion... makes it sound like the 'promised land', but really itv was freaking Utah😂 I mean, it's pretty desolate & barren with a freaking SALT lake😂 you can't dri k it or use for irrigation. It sounds more like the 3rd ring of Hell😅 Especially back then😮 Why did they stop in Utah? They could have continued to Oregon, Washington, California....
DO WHAT YOU LOVE!
Well... some people love to bring pain unto others... could you rephrase that another way?
Nothing goes well when a man married more than one woman. You don't have to look far to find examples either. A major example: Jacob, Rachel, and Leah.
In the 21st century we've learned the severe consequences of practicing the barbaric nature of religions and cults. But the foundations of LD$- FLD$- RLD$ are still believed and practiced. 😢
🤬Settlers NOT Pioneers (there were already people living here in the Americas)
Yeah yeah multiple wives...drama...ect....
But really, WTF is that stuffed dead cat thing in the corner behind you?!
Lol it’s not a dead cat, it’s just a ceramic
@@ExmoLex 😅
I appreciate the struggle you've had leaving a religious cult - I work in cult apologetics and have encountered the trauma and emotional issues facing so many who realize that their religion was a lie. Mormonism is not a Christian religion, and rejects the cross. The cross is an ancient Christian symbol, used since the earliest time of the Church to point to the sacrifice of Christ - Jesus death on the Cross to pay the sin debt of those who place their faith in Him. Do you really think its appropriate to disparage that Christian symbol by wearing an upside down Cross? As an Anglican (hardly a hardcore cult), who loves the Cross, I'd appeal to you to please consider that wearing a cross like that is an attack on all Christians - and since Mormons never wear a cross, nor love it as a symbol of faith, wearing an upside down cross has nothing to do with leaving Mormonism at all. Thank you, however, for your videos.
Ok so you have some of your history wrong here. The house burning incident occurred in Illinois, not Missouri. Yes Missouri did issue a death order for Mormons in around 1839. But Governor Ford of Illinois ( who was often supportive of the Mormons) after the death of Joseph Smith told the Mormons in Illinois he could not protect them and so an agreement was reached for them to leave Nauvoo in Illinois. This was in 1845-46, years after the Mormons were thrown out of Missouri. Of course the brave leader Brigham Young was in the fist group to leave. The last to leave were the sick and very poor. Emma Smith did not leave she stayed in her house. As you stated the facts are not simple and this is an oversimplification but the trek west did not start from Missouri but from Nauvoo.
You may be thinking of a different house-this is my personal family history, so the info I was going off is from our own records. I assume there was more than one house burned down.
As far as where the trek started, that is as individual as the people who made the trek. For example, some people made the trip west from as far as Europe.