I hate pyros the reason y is because I'm a spy main go ahead and litrally tell me your just bad at the game pyro all he does is holding down m1 like what's the point heck his combo is easy and that's not even skilled at all a trickstab is more skilled than pyros❤
i apreaciate the fact that the jungle inferno/blue moon part didn't include the date but rather just today to not have to remember that it's been 4 years
Man I remember when I first started getting good at Puff and Sting in 2013. I thought the first axtinguisher nerf was reasonable, but man the tough break KILLED the weapon. I remember seeing Aussie prices for it drop like a rock. I think it's in a good place now tho. It's fun to use and pretty viable.
i dont actually use the axtinguisher itself rather the mailbox reskin, i find it fucking halarious to smack a burning player with a mailbox and be granted the speed boost as i look at the killfeed to see a mail kill icon
Same, it would be actually useful for pyro, would actually take skill (m1, aim at the center of your enemy, and pop them in the air and shoot them with the reserve shooter) and would be really fun to play with
I remember in the TF2 steam forums in the pyro subforum we had a long discussion about how Pyro utilized his 2ndary and even melee more than primary. I remember suggesting faster weapon switch should've been an unlock for his primary. Was so happy when the degreaser released, could've finally keep pacing with soldiers in reflecting and shotgunning.
I didn't know about any of this. Seems super silly scrubs back then were whining about Pyro being able to do so much damage so quickly despite being an "Offense" class while classes such as Soldier and Demo can just as easily two-shot most classes even today and have far greater range and splash damage.
As someone who played back then, I think the main argument is that with Soldier and Demo, at least you can try to dodge projectiles or surf the explosions to get away. With the old airblast that put you in a set path, there was quite literally nothing you could do once you were in your range. "Why don't you just stay out of that range then?" Unfortunately, 8/9 of the classes are meant to engage at close to mid range anyway, unless you feel like taking pot shots (which Pyro arguably could do better with flares and afterburn). Stuns and other movement-inhibiting mechanics aren't super fun to play against, so that combined with how effective binding a macro to puff, airblast, then crit them made a lot of players hate Pyro which I can understand quite a bit. Sorry for the long wall of text! It's been a while since I've seen people talk about puff and sting, so it brought up a lot of memories. I think it's hard to put Pyro in a place balancewise that makes everyone happy.
@@velencourte True, however… the keyword is range. No only are Soldiers and Demo deal more damage from a distance even if you dodge the projectile can still take splash damage. Plus, not everyone surfs off damage like they play quake or jump maps. That just a talking point that a minority of players say that caught the majority attention. Anyway, range was still a huge factor. If a Pyro was able to stroll up on and you were not playing attention or attacking back, you deserve to die. Plus crowd control and resists even out the playing field in games to prevent crazy damage dealers from just rolling everyone. It not fun when it one group deal all the damage… counterplay is needed.
i like where combo pyro is now but i wish valve implemented the degreaser sketchek talked about. less damage and less afterburn duration but bringing back the super quick switch speed for all weapons.
I used to believe very strongly in reverting the degreaser switch speed, but honestly it’s not really necessary considering lingering flames effectively allow for faster combos.
Funny thing is, before, w+m1 pyros weren't being called out as much as today. Probably because people had met some pro combo Pyro and said to themselves: "Oh yeah, this is aids, but not as aids as being juggled and killed instantly".
@@GhostofFarta literally everything is op in the right hands, whether pyro is slightly easier or not is debatable, and pyro gets absolutely destroyed in quite a lot of situations, to effectively play pyro and stay alive is decently hard and your point about not playing pyro in the first place because its ez is just flat out stupid, theyre allowed to choose which class they want to play, and which one they want to get good at, there are players who are better than you who play pyro simply because thats what they find fun, not because they need to git gud. TL;DR people can play whatever they want at whatever skill level P.S there are lots of ways to counter pyro, the most basic of which is to stick with your team and dont get too close, but you can also go pyro and use shotgun, or play battle engie and place aggressive but out of reach sentries etc
@@GhostofFarta also yeah heavy requires tracking to be effective, what about it? also you dont need to be constantly revved up to potentially kill the pyro, thats just a flat out lie, if you have a med its unlikely youll die, and if you do die, then you got outskilled idk what to say, if they can pull back from an unfavourable encounter and kill the enemy heavy, wp to them, and if you think its easy, go pyro and try dominate a whole lobby and kill a good few heavies, record it, and post it to your channel in a weeks time, also show the leaderboard at the end of the game so you arent just killing fresh installs and claiming that pyro is ez due to it, and if you actually are going to do this, which i heavily doubt you will, youre not allowed to be joined by friends to make it fair
fun fact: flarepunching is possible without the degreaser due to the fact that flames linger on the ground for a bit after firing your flamethrower edit: backburner detonator flank pyro supremacy
@@chopsticks7751 he's an angery spy main lol, nothing else, I don't even have anything against spies, but it's stupid when they get mad at people for playing their counter class lmao
It's sad that despite everything pyro is still looked down upon and hated despite requiring a lot of skill to pull off combos and being generally underwhelming otherwise. Nobody cares about absurd DPS (combined with ease of use) of soldier or demo because everyone mains either of them, or how heavy has skill floor as a ceiling because flames bad. That said scorch shot is overpowered, I just wish that when actual update comes in 2030 Pyro receives more than just nerfs (valve plz fix flamethrowers dealing less damage at point blank and damage ramp up issues).
Maybe make it mini-crit from the front of your opponent and crit from behind like it used to. Edit: just realized this is a nerf instead of a buff. Make it holster normal speed. That way it is faster for burst damage.
Yeah, you somehow have to combat or balance the fact that your flamethrower does a lot of dmg thst is easily achieved, why would I want to risk not hitting a melee for less dmg lol
They probably should make the dragon's fury's primary fire to knocks targets upwards when aim at the feet, to make the reserve shooter at least usable with pyro.
I think the issue was they went a little overboard with nerfing it, what made it so broken was the old airblast to my knowledge, cuz it would yeet them up in a straight line, basically giving you a free shot, I dunno, but MAYBE reverting it could work? potentially? i dunno, I wasn't around when it was busted so idk
I've been playing TF2 for 10 years and almost never touched Pyro. This video was very eye opening and I think I'll give combo Pyro I try now! I love seeing content on this game from new players! Really glad it has a great community.
I think one thing to also take in mind about the rise of pyro hate was the buffs to the phlogistinator in 2015-ish that put w+m1 strongly in the spotlight. It took years for popular opinion to shift back against w+m1 hate and respond with the fact that it can be easily countered.
So people hated old combo-pyro for being "too quick" at killing, but I'm supposed to believe Sniper isn't OP with his long range (outside of everyone else's effective range) instant 150 damage quickscopes?
After over 5,200 hours in tf2, I think pyro is in a good place. Basically nobody that knows the game mechanics complains about his mechanics, yet he is still very strong as an ambush closerange class. In the end, Valve did good IMO.
I don't know how you can be a 5200 hr player and still think Pyro is good close range ambush class. Pyro is arguably the worst in terms of cqc and in comp is only used in the format where he is mandatory to use... unless used to stall ubers.. which has nothing to do with ambushing....
Loses against everyone except soldier and spy. Rn you'll either run scorch flog, which is pure cancer, standard w+m1 or you'll find the 1 over 100 that uses combo pyro.
I think my favourite aspect of combo pyro is lighting someone on fire and then, as they run away, correctly guessing the path they're gonna run and leading the shot just right with the flare gun to finish them with the crit.
One other change in Tough Break was that multiple airblasts would no longer stun you after the first airblast, meaning you could get out of the infinite stun loop. I just remember when that update came out and there was this massive witch hunt against B4nny because there was a consipracy that he was working with Valve to nerf pyro into the ground.
@@Luksed12 that because they are confusing when B4nny was ranting about airblast and suggesting nerfs for the Degreaser (the nerf that increase the cost of airblast). His suggestion was almost one to one with the nerf. Plus there were rumors that Valve was working competitive players on MyM. The stun thing that was changed was not complained about. So idk they are talking about there
Back before tough break I wasn't that skilled as I was younger, but even I remember how satisfying it was to crit someone with the flare gun. However I was never on board with the degreaser, since I wasn't that good I relied on afterburn if I messed up my shot and me seeing "decreased afterburn" put me off of it for good. Sadly today pyro is known as the "W+m1" or "Scorch shot phlog" class, which is why I heavily respect a good pyro player who doesn't use the phlog, Because it reminds me of the hatred I had to them and why I loved fighting them! It was, and still is, a great feeling when you kill a good pyro player, unless it was due to a random crit it feels earned. I left tf2 for a while and when I came back I couldn't land shots so I swapped to stock shotgun since I was against the reserve shooter because of it's decreased clip size and I used the stock for a while. Occasionally I'll swap to flare gun just to relive the good days, and scorch shot if I'm planning on being a pybro because I'm still not sure if the sentry will eat my flare if the spy is behind it
Modern Combo Pyro is really fun still, hitting those Airblast setups is way more satisfying now than it was back when the knockback was set, it also gives you a lot more use as a spacing tool for those dicey situations. Still a little torn of the Axtinguisher but its far from the worst Combo melee now. Surprised there wasnt a tidbit about the Detonator, its burst potential is mediocre but the utility it offered back then and still does to some extent to combos in general can still be really valuable and fun to use. Really nice video, reminded me of the simpler times when I used to grind my pyro combos on community servers and made lots of Frenemies lmao.
I remember the excitement of an email to valve convincing them to let the flare gun minicrit burning targets as a counter to the addition of jaratte, then it all got crazier from there
Hear me out, I think the reserve shooter on Pyro is kind of pointless, they either have to make Pyro not able to use it anymore or at least give some advantages to him using it, like doing mini crits while airblasting but give him a -30% dmg falloff just so the reserve shooter is not as frustrating to play against with. The only reason I am saying this is because I am tired of literally every combo Pyro using the flare gun
I mean ppl say that w+M1 on pyro is noob and we not gona talk about that 70% not male weapons (if not more) to deal DMG are doing w+m1 Okay maybe not wm1 but only m1
Hell, pyros today are still a pain in the ass. Scouts gotta play ***really*** defensively and conserved against them, soldiers have to basically entirely focus on them to play mind-games with their rockets or sacrifice their back-pack or boots to deal with a singular player, Demomen are either entirely fucked or in no harm at all, and heavies are guaranteed to lose lotta blood even if the pyro's pretty bad. Course, a lotta the time they won't kill ya if you're competent. Just cripple you or deal nothing at all
I'm guessing you've had a lot of run ins with the only pyro weapon i think needs a nerf, the scorchshot,..and I don't blame you for getting annoyed, I main pyro and i still hate that damn thing..
Combo pyro used to be severely overpowered, and you know why? BECAUSE I USED IT. Degreaser, Flare and Axetinguisher would more often then not put me top of the leaderboard and a k/d of about 3:1. It was so broken, that because I knew how bs it felt to die to it, I refused to use it any further, all the way to the Axetinguisher nerf(s), and I don't regret it one bit. It's gone, that's good, amen.
the flare gun was actually never changed to my knowledge, it's just that old airblast was stupid, and honestly I can see why they removed crits on the axetinguisher, now a days my only gripe with the axetinguisher is how inconsistent it can be, between tf2 melee hitreg being the way it is, and the fact that the afterburn timer makes one shotting with it inconsistent, I just wish it did the max damage ramp up all the time, I may be wrong about this, cuz it is definitely in a decent spot,
Eh not really. I was there... all comp players still thought Pyro was a joke. Hell I can't name a single op weapon Pyro had back in the day except for the Reserve shooter, since it could counter roamer soldiers.
Remember when you could spazz out (move your mouse left and right real quick) it did more damage? It could melt a Heavy and seconds. I am glad they fixed that
No. The problem was it was dealing the same damage focus fire, so you will kill a group standing relevantly close surrounding you within the same time as focusing down 1 or 2 targets in forward of you. People confuse this with the TF2team fix the inconsistencies in the flamethrower. With the flamethrower working properly it was akin to a buff in DPS, which lead to people complaining about Pyro being to powerful. LOL they fixed then people bitched about it dealing it proper DPS. Blue Moon tried to discourage the spazz by adding ramp up but in turn it made the flamethrower weaker and spazzing was still equal to focusing or better because how damage get reset on a missed particle or when flaming target next to walls caps you damage with oldest particle damage. TLDR: JI fixed the Flamethrower to it proper DPS, some player didn’t like melting faster along with the new tactic of of hitting the spazz button. Blue Moon took the Flamethrower back five steps, arguable weaker prior to JI because of the ramp up, reset on missed particle, and DPS getting locked when fighting close to walls
I feel like the issue with Pyro is that valve has no idea how he’s meant to be played. Which can be a benefit, like, soldier has no specific play style and is incredible versatile, but Pyro has no specific play style. Scout, for example, doesn’t have many alternative play styles besides his regular flank style. I think Pyro should be primarily a support/offense class, with the offensive option of either flank or combo. Basically, revive combo Pyro back to Love and War, and give him more support tools.
I basically never played anything beside combo pyro and I have been playing since 2013-2014. Destroying everyone (especially other pyros) with flarepunch was and still my most favorite thing.
Idea for a combo, "The Dual Combo": One Pyro hits the enemy with a direct scorch shot while a second Pyro shoots the enemy with the Reserve Shooter. Then, you finish them off with the Axtinguisher.
A majority of the people that complained about pyro were generally skillless pubbers who thought the whole idea that a pyro could kill them in pyro's range was some how broken. And that isn't just people complaining about the combo pyro but also the W+M1s, I got a lot of people that just complained when I killed them as pyro and couldn't even call out the proper way that they were killed. I remember one particular soldier being so bad at it that after the 3rd kill in a row I called him back out in the text chat after he kept saying W+M1; I usually ignore text chat but had to say, "out of the last three kills, 2 were reflected rockets and the other was a reserve shooter kill." he somehow thought that this somehow was still W+M1. While Pub does matter, Valve should also really have been considering that many people think that any other class being able to kill THEM, is somehow broken. I don't play TF2 anymore but I do remember talentless demos just spamming grenades, sat next to more skilled demos who knew where to stand to use stickies so they could be detonated at around the point in time they could be reflected. I remember solders spamming rockets while others would pull out a shotgun or trying to ambush with a jump and melee weapon (works against some pyros) or just don't spam the rocket button but shoot at irregular intervals to make it harder to predict for reflect... every time in game I saw somebody complaining it was always the types that spam and play predictably and had no comprehension of class balance or how classes work/function. Even at the height of power for the combo, pyro was still underpowered, they had no answer to sentries, could be shredded by semi-competent heavies, could be flanked by scouts, had little in the way of mobility options, etc. Demos and Soldiers did have answers to pyro but a lot of players just remained literally ignorant to those methods and instead declared it a class balance issue instead of what it actually was, which was a skill level issue, more skilled pyros can crush demos, soldiers, scouts but the reverse was always true too.
They should revert the reserve shooter nerf and let it work with airblast again honestly, it was broken before but now that airblast doesn't work the same way I don't think it would be nearly as broken as it once was, pushing someone upwards with airblast now is much much harder
If only the Dragons Breath was a bit more reliable/forgiving, since it seems to cast a really thin ray when determining if you hit your target or not, definitely not as wide as the animation shows. Maybe if it did damage based on how close your aim was to the target, to give those shots that barely miss a bit of value.
10:45 I actually disagree strongly about this nerf. This made it obsolete for pyro, he need a usable shotgun so the flare guns aren't the absolute best
I have a problem with tf2 which is when I wanted to play it says it needs to be downloaded again when I already had it and I had enough disk space but it said I didn't have enough disk space
When Dragons Fury Was Released on Jungle Inferno Update I Thought That The Dragons Fury is A Combo Tool But Its Very op And Its Great For Killing Heavies And A Good Combo Tool
Combo Pyro will always have a place in my heart. Nothing better than both your enemies and your fingers with 1000apm combos, then be called a W+M1 in chat
@@GhostofFarta kindly just stop, after you spammed "cry more pyro main" in all the comments, you threw any respect you had out the window, I cannot take you seriously after that,
the reserve shooter should've just been removed from pyro's loadout after the removal of the mini-crits on airblast. it's literally a downgrade at this point lol
Easy. Fear. Anymore in the game, If I see a Pyro? I turn around and go the other way. I'm tired of fighting him. I'm so tired of being worse than the Pyro. I don't even play as Pyro much anymore from the PTSD. You cant play ANYTHING on a server with a Pyro that's half-way decent at their aim. It's fire. It's almost unavoidable. Hate Pyro.
Комбо-пиро как был имбой так и остался: В руках задрота мейна солдат/демо/скаут тупо неиграбельны на ближке с оным - первым он тупо не дает разумно играть из-за рефлекта (либо среди толпы отражает весь спам либо в 1v1 сводит в 0 ваше оружие), скаута же оный пиро валит за секунду + без разброса урона и хитрега (тобишь когда у скаута -20 в упор на постоянку , то у пиро этого просто нет - в результате митшоты скаута суть полный рандом,а пиро даже не думает об этом). Пиро имеет всю ту же идею комбо 1-2 слота из TFC , но реализация сломанная (с шпионом например такая же ситуация - идея норм, но класс сломан).
I stopped playing TF2 years ago (I played from day 1, got my Orange Box at an actual brick and mortar store!) but combo Pyro was my favourite playstyle as soon as it was introduced. I think I stopped playing sometime around late 2011. I'm not sure if I ever realised that the Reserve Shooter could be equipped by Pyro or maybe I just wasn't playing the game much by that point; I'm pretty sure I would have remembered that since it sounds kind of broken. Ultimately I quit playing the game because while I did enjoy playing all classes, I moved from being primarily a demo / soldier player to scout / pyro and lost interest in being forced to switch class constantly because some engineer decided to dedicate their entire existence to camping the best spot on the map every game.
![The Evolution of Demoknight [TF2]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/eGPXG_tTnKI/mqdefault.jpg)
![The Evolution of Demoknight [TF2]](/img/tr.png)
![The Art of Phlog Canceling [TF2 Exploit]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/fvl1_hfMI_s/mqdefault.jpg)
![Why Can't Certain Weapons Random Crit? [TF2]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/bMSGMTaxCvc/mqdefault.jpg)
![[TF2] Weapon Stereotypes! Episode 4: The Pyro](/img/n.gif)
summer 2024 update the neon annihilator now combos with the gas passer, combo bros we're so fucking back
Yas
I hate pyros the reason y is because I'm a spy main go ahead and litrally tell me your just bad at the game pyro all he does is holding down m1 like what's the point heck his combo is easy and that's not even skilled at all a trickstab is more skilled than pyros❤
Why did I put a heart there I didn't mean to put a heart there I meant to do this😑
@@TankerMan9calm down dawg
@@TankerMan9 spoken like a true spy main
i apreaciate the fact that the jungle inferno/blue moon part didn't include the date but rather just today to not have to remember that it's been 4 years
pain
Valve is thinking forward. I like it!
5 now
@@roby4504 If they just found a cure for their allergy to number 3, that could be a good thing.
@@wombat4191 I legit think that people would give em shit if they made a 3 and its not half life
Man I remember when I first started getting good at Puff and Sting in 2013. I thought the first axtinguisher nerf was reasonable, but man the tough break KILLED the weapon. I remember seeing Aussie prices for it drop like a rock. I think it's in a good place now tho. It's fun to use and pretty viable.
@@GhostofFarta he's literally talking about how the axtinguishers in a good spot now, tf he gon cry about?
@@chippedtoothentertainment he spams that comment on any person who remotely respects pyro in the comment section.
@@GhostofFarta SPY MAIN HAHAHAHA
i dont actually use the axtinguisher itself rather the mailbox reskin, i find it fucking halarious to smack a burning player with a mailbox and be granted the speed boost as i look at the killfeed to see a mail kill icon
@@DeletedExpiration This is why I fucking hate video games, because this is what it does it appeals to the *Mail* fantasy
I will die on this hill with my degreaser, stock shotgun and powerjack.
Man of culture
Homewrecker?
@@Foldlikeanomelette I think a homewrecker is better for pybros
Man of such empowering stature
Same. Consistency above all.
As a doom player, combo pyro is one of my favorite subclasses
I prefer to play demoknight on Hightower and loudly blast the DOOM eternal soundtrack as I rack up kills
@@internetscum7867 tf2 gaming at its best
doom enjoyer
a doom eternal player*
Your a sigma male
Truly wish the reserve shooter mini crit can be triggered from dragon's fury burst-juggle
questionable since just hitting again with dragon fury would deal around the same damage anyways
@@zriku1 The hitscan spread on the reserve shooter which makes your kill guaranteed is what I'm talking about
Same, it would be actually useful for pyro, would actually take skill (m1, aim at the center of your enemy, and pop them in the air and shoot them with the reserve shooter) and would be really fun to play with
if you want to do massive damage at close range with a shotgun, play scout
i feel like a boomer for remembering the times of the reserve shooter being insanely OP on pyro
I remember in the TF2 steam forums in the pyro subforum we had a long discussion about how Pyro utilized his 2ndary and even melee more than primary. I remember suggesting faster weapon switch should've been an unlock for his primary. Was so happy when the degreaser released, could've finally keep pacing with soldiers in reflecting and shotgunning.
Steam forum pyro subreddit?????
@@tappajaav yes
@@NikolasoGames s u b r e d d i t
SPUF!
Your pfp...
I didn't know about any of this.
Seems super silly scrubs back then were whining about Pyro being able to do so much damage so quickly despite being an "Offense" class while classes such as Soldier and Demo can just as easily two-shot most classes even today and have far greater range and splash damage.
Haha Braindead wm1 go brr
As someone who played back then, I think the main argument is that with Soldier and Demo, at least you can try to dodge projectiles or surf the explosions to get away. With the old airblast that put you in a set path, there was quite literally nothing you could do once you were in your range. "Why don't you just stay out of that range then?" Unfortunately, 8/9 of the classes are meant to engage at close to mid range anyway, unless you feel like taking pot shots (which Pyro arguably could do better with flares and afterburn). Stuns and other movement-inhibiting mechanics aren't super fun to play against, so that combined with how effective binding a macro to puff, airblast, then crit them made a lot of players hate Pyro which I can understand quite a bit.
Sorry for the long wall of text! It's been a while since I've seen people talk about puff and sting, so it brought up a lot of memories. I think it's hard to put Pyro in a place balancewise that makes everyone happy.
@@velencourte Don't be sorry. Knowledge is power.
Sounds reasonable overall since airblast locking out movement makes aim less of an issue.
@@velencourte True, however… the keyword is range. No only are Soldiers and Demo deal more damage from a distance even if you dodge the projectile can still take splash damage. Plus, not everyone surfs off damage like they play quake or jump maps. That just a talking point that a minority of players say that caught the majority attention.
Anyway, range was still a huge factor. If a Pyro was able to stroll up on and you were not playing attention or attacking back, you deserve to die. Plus crowd control and resists even out the playing field in games to prevent crazy damage dealers from just rolling everyone. It not fun when it one group deal all the damage… counterplay is needed.
@@velencourte dodging splash damage is super rare and difficult tho
Tough break really earned its name almost everything got nerfed
i like where combo pyro is now but i wish valve implemented the degreaser sketchek talked about. less damage and less afterburn duration but bringing back the super quick switch speed for all weapons.
I used to believe very strongly in reverting the degreaser switch speed, but honestly it’s not really necessary considering lingering flames effectively allow for faster combos.
calling this gem underrated is an understatement good work!
Seeing old clips from FUNKe, Star_, and Jerma honestly brings a tear to my eye. So many great times. Thank you
Don't forget my main man sheckeck aka the reason I don’t think techno blade is dead
Funny thing is, before, w+m1 pyros weren't being called out as much as today.
Probably because people had met some pro combo Pyro and said to themselves: "Oh yeah, this is aids, but not as aids as being juggled and killed instantly".
how to balance pyro:
- delete pyro
- profit
I'm sick of the whole "w-m1" thing, you don't want us to move or shoot, what the fuck do you want us to do, walk backwards and only airblast?
@@GhostofFarta literally everything is op in the right hands, whether pyro is slightly easier or not is debatable, and pyro gets absolutely destroyed in quite a lot of situations, to effectively play pyro and stay alive is decently hard and your point about not playing pyro in the first place because its ez is just flat out stupid, theyre allowed to choose which class they want to play, and which one they want to get good at, there are players who are better than you who play pyro simply because thats what they find fun, not because they need to git gud.
TL;DR people can play whatever they want at whatever skill level
P.S there are lots of ways to counter pyro, the most basic of which is to stick with your team and dont get too close, but you can also go pyro and use shotgun, or play battle engie and place aggressive but out of reach sentries etc
@@GhostofFarta also yeah heavy requires tracking to be effective, what about it? also you dont need to be constantly revved up to potentially kill the pyro, thats just a flat out lie, if you have a med its unlikely youll die, and if you do die, then you got outskilled idk what to say, if they can pull back from an unfavourable encounter and kill the enemy heavy, wp to them, and if you think its easy, go pyro and try dominate a whole lobby and kill a good few heavies, record it, and post it to your channel in a weeks time, also show the leaderboard at the end of the game so you arent just killing fresh installs and claiming that pyro is ez due to it, and if you actually are going to do this, which i heavily doubt you will, youre not allowed to be joined by friends to make it fair
@@GhostofFarta This is a definite saltpost
fun fact: flarepunching is possible without the degreaser due to the fact that flames linger on the ground for a bit after firing your flamethrower
edit: backburner detonator flank pyro supremacy
@@GhostofFarta just get good and take a shower, you smell like you farded
@@chopsticks7751 he's an angery spy main lol, nothing else, I don't even have anything against spies, but it's stupid when they get mad at people for playing their counter class lmao
@@nexusthenormie5578 he really sounds like a soldier main
@@chopsticks7751 How so? Because he must have lead poisoning to post the way that he does?
@@GogiRegion yes and most soldier mains I’ve seen were super salty and most likely racist
It's sad that despite everything pyro is still looked down upon and hated despite requiring a lot of skill to pull off combos and being generally underwhelming otherwise. Nobody cares about absurd DPS (combined with ease of use) of soldier or demo because everyone mains either of them, or how heavy has skill floor as a ceiling because flames bad.
That said scorch shot is overpowered, I just wish that when actual update comes in 2030 Pyro receives more than just nerfs (valve plz fix flamethrowers dealing less damage at point blank and damage ramp up issues).
Great video again. Absolutely made me nostalgic too.
Your voice makes me feel stress-free~
Liked the video before even watching because we all know it's gonna be another banger.
valve give 195 damage axtinguisher back because i want it lol
Maybe make it mini-crit from the front of your opponent and crit from behind like it used to.
Edit: just realized this is a nerf instead of a buff. Make it holster normal speed. That way it is faster for burst damage.
@@user-ow2cs7fb5l no
@@tf2colossal no
Yeah, you somehow have to combat or balance the fact that your flamethrower does a lot of dmg thst is easily achieved, why would I want to risk not hitting a melee for less dmg lol
@@GhostofFarta 😢
Forgot how broken the reserve shooter used to be. Glad it got nerfed but it's useless now since the concept doesn't fit pyro
They probably should make the dragon's fury's primary fire to knocks targets upwards when aim at the feet, to make the reserve shooter at least usable with pyro.
I think the issue was they went a little overboard with nerfing it, what made it so broken was the old airblast to my knowledge, cuz it would yeet them up in a straight line, basically giving you a free shot, I dunno, but MAYBE reverting it could work? potentially? i dunno, I wasn't around when it was busted so idk
I've been playing TF2 for 10 years and almost never touched Pyro. This video was very eye opening and I think I'll give combo Pyro I try now! I love seeing content on this game from new players! Really glad it has a great community.
It's really satisfying class once you master it's complicated movement elements. Check out sketchek in UA-cam. He's insane pyro
@Flyin' Steve wha
@@wm1573 unfortunately a majority of its complicated movement elements are walking forward while holding lmb
@@ohmeohmicah l2p
@@wm1573 no more sketchek
I think one thing to also take in mind about the rise of pyro hate was the buffs to the phlogistinator in 2015-ish that put w+m1 strongly in the spotlight. It took years for popular opinion to shift back against w+m1 hate and respond with the fact that it can be easily countered.
So people hated old combo-pyro for being "too quick" at killing, but I'm supposed to believe Sniper isn't OP with his long range (outside of everyone else's effective range) instant 150 damage quickscopes?
After over 5,200 hours in tf2, I think pyro is in a good place. Basically nobody that knows the game mechanics complains about his mechanics, yet he is still very strong as an ambush closerange class. In the end, Valve did good IMO.
Now we just need go make Thermal Thruster + Hot Hand a viable strategy
I don't know how you can be a 5200 hr player and still think Pyro is good close range ambush class. Pyro is arguably the worst in terms of cqc and in comp is only used in the format where he is mandatory to use... unless used to stall ubers.. which has nothing to do with ambushing....
@@Chorismos he can be viable in different map types
Loses against everyone except soldier and spy. Rn you'll either run scorch flog, which is pure cancer, standard w+m1 or you'll find the 1 over 100 that uses combo pyro.
I think my favourite aspect of combo pyro is lighting someone on fire and then, as they run away, correctly guessing the path they're gonna run and leading the shot just right with the flare gun to finish them with the crit.
Me anytime I heard Pyro did too much damage, "well he is an offense class so..."
Fucking adore the b/w soundtrack usage in this video, genuinely amazing
One other change in Tough Break was that multiple airblasts would no longer stun you after the first airblast, meaning you could get out of the infinite stun loop. I just remember when that update came out and there was this massive witch hunt against B4nny because there was a consipracy that he was working with Valve to nerf pyro into the ground.
lmao didn't even know about this change nor the B4nny witch hunt. The conspiracy seems hilarious to me lol
@@Luksed12 that because they are confusing when B4nny was ranting about airblast and suggesting nerfs for the Degreaser (the nerf that increase the cost of airblast). His suggestion was almost one to one with the nerf. Plus there were rumors that Valve was working competitive players on MyM.
The stun thing that was changed was not complained about. So idk they are talking about there
@@TunbosunOyenuga thx for the info
Back before tough break I wasn't that skilled as I was younger, but even I remember how satisfying it was to crit someone with the flare gun. However I was never on board with the degreaser, since I wasn't that good I relied on afterburn if I messed up my shot and me seeing "decreased afterburn" put me off of it for good. Sadly today pyro is known as the "W+m1" or "Scorch shot phlog" class, which is why I heavily respect a good pyro player who doesn't use the phlog, Because it reminds me of the hatred I had to them and why I loved fighting them! It was, and still is, a great feeling when you kill a good pyro player, unless it was due to a random crit it feels earned.
I left tf2 for a while and when I came back I couldn't land shots so I swapped to stock shotgun since I was against the reserve shooter because of it's decreased clip size and I used the stock for a while. Occasionally I'll swap to flare gun just to relive the good days, and scorch shot if I'm planning on being a pybro because I'm still not sure if the sentry will eat my flare if the spy is behind it
“When you play pyro what do you think of?” Me: Spy screaming.
Some dumbass with phlog and scorch shit
Modern Combo Pyro is really fun still, hitting those Airblast setups is way more satisfying now than it was back when the knockback was set, it also gives you a lot more use as a spacing tool for those dicey situations. Still a little torn of the Axtinguisher but its far from the worst Combo melee now. Surprised there wasnt a tidbit about the Detonator, its burst potential is mediocre but the utility it offered back then and still does to some extent to combos in general can still be really valuable and fun to use.
Really nice video, reminded me of the simpler times when I used to grind my pyro combos on community servers and made lots of Frenemies lmao.
i really like to combo the degreaser with the panic attack work so well
Panic attack + degreaser honestly feels like a balanced version of reserve shooter + degreaser
It's like dual welding weapons
Honestly I want to get a strange version of the dragons fury
I remember the excitement of an email to valve convincing them to let the flare gun minicrit burning targets as a counter to the addition of jaratte, then it all got crazier from there
God, Gen 5's soundtrack is a gift from Heaven that we do not deserve.
honestly after watching this i can kinda respect pyros more even if i am a salty trimp loving demomain
come see the next evolution of vid here :))
ua-cam.com/video/eGPXG_tTnKI/v-deo.html
Hear me out, I think the reserve shooter on Pyro is kind of pointless, they either have to make Pyro not able to use it anymore or at least give some advantages to him using it, like doing mini crits while airblasting but give him a -30% dmg falloff just so the reserve shooter is not as frustrating to play against with. The only reason I am saying this is because I am tired of literally every combo Pyro using the flare gun
Laughs in panic attack cuz hitting flares is hard for Me
Why are you sick of it at least they arnt using the fucking scorch shit
I mean ppl say that w+M1 on pyro is noob and we not gona talk about that 70% not male weapons (if not more) to deal DMG are doing w+m1
Okay maybe not wm1 but only m1
Oh how I miss when my stinguisher full critted... And didn't extinguish at all.
@@GhostofFarta Nah.
@@GhostofFarta just quit being an edgelord and get good at the game lmao, pyro isn't op
This was a very well made video :)
A+++
Amazing Video So much effort put in it! Hoping to see all the other 8 classes for future videos
Hell, pyros today are still a pain in the ass. Scouts gotta play ***really*** defensively and conserved against them, soldiers have to basically entirely focus on them to play mind-games with their rockets or sacrifice their back-pack or boots to deal with a singular player, Demomen are either entirely fucked or in no harm at all, and heavies are guaranteed to lose lotta blood even if the pyro's pretty bad.
Course, a lotta the time they won't kill ya if you're competent. Just cripple you or deal nothing at all
I'm guessing you've had a lot of run ins with the only pyro weapon i think needs a nerf, the scorchshot,..and I don't blame you for getting annoyed, I main pyro and i still hate that damn thing..
Why did thunder strike outside my house as soon as he said “the reserve shooter is now equiptable by the pyro.”
God knew and wanted to set the mood
I don't care if Combo Pyro's dominate servers, I'll have mad respect for someone who doesn't wm1.
Combo pyro used to be severely overpowered, and you know why? BECAUSE I USED IT. Degreaser, Flare and Axetinguisher would more often then not put me top of the leaderboard and a k/d of about 3:1. It was so broken, that because I knew how bs it felt to die to it, I refused to use it any further, all the way to the Axetinguisher nerf(s), and I don't regret it one bit. It's gone, that's good, amen.
the flare gun was actually never changed to my knowledge, it's just that old airblast was stupid, and honestly I can see why they removed crits on the axetinguisher, now a days my only gripe with the axetinguisher is how inconsistent it can be, between tf2 melee hitreg being the way it is, and the fact that the afterburn timer makes one shotting with it inconsistent, I just wish it did the max damage ramp up all the time, I may be wrong about this, cuz it is definitely in a decent spot,
Eh not really. I was there... all comp players still thought Pyro was a joke. Hell I can't name a single op weapon Pyro had back in the day except for the Reserve shooter, since it could counter roamer soldiers.
I truly miss the Reserve shooter meta. The amount of times I was kicked due to using it!
Well made video and research, keep it up mate (:
Remember when you could spazz out (move your mouse left and right real quick) it did more damage? It could melt a Heavy and seconds.
I am glad they fixed that
No. The problem was it was dealing the same damage focus fire, so you will kill a group standing relevantly close surrounding you within the same time as focusing down 1 or 2 targets in forward of you.
People confuse this with the TF2team fix the inconsistencies in the flamethrower. With the flamethrower working properly it was akin to a buff in DPS, which lead to people complaining about Pyro being to powerful. LOL they fixed then people bitched about it dealing it proper DPS.
Blue Moon tried to discourage the spazz by adding ramp up but in turn it made the flamethrower weaker and spazzing was still equal to focusing or better because how damage get reset on a missed particle or when flaming target next to walls caps you damage with oldest particle damage.
TLDR: JI fixed the Flamethrower to it proper DPS, some player didn’t like melting faster along with the new tactic of of hitting the spazz button. Blue Moon took the Flamethrower back five steps, arguable weaker prior to JI because of the ramp up, reset on missed particle, and DPS getting locked when fighting close to walls
OMG, there actually something you could had added if you did this video nowadays!
I feel like the issue with Pyro is that valve has no idea how he’s meant to be played. Which can be a benefit, like, soldier has no specific play style and is incredible versatile, but Pyro has no specific play style. Scout, for example, doesn’t have many alternative play styles besides his regular flank style. I think Pyro should be primarily a support/offense class, with the offensive option of either flank or combo. Basically, revive combo Pyro back to Love and War, and give him more support tools.
I basically never played anything beside combo pyro and I have been playing since 2013-2014. Destroying everyone (especially other pyros) with flarepunch was and still my most favorite thing.
guys we have found another under rated tf2 youtuber
Idea for a combo, "The Dual Combo": One Pyro hits the enemy with a direct scorch shot while a second Pyro shoots the enemy with the Reserve Shooter. Then, you finish them off with the Axtinguisher.
A majority of the people that complained about pyro were generally skillless pubbers who thought the whole idea that a pyro could kill them in pyro's range was some how broken. And that isn't just people complaining about the combo pyro but also the W+M1s, I got a lot of people that just complained when I killed them as pyro and couldn't even call out the proper way that they were killed. I remember one particular soldier being so bad at it that after the 3rd kill in a row I called him back out in the text chat after he kept saying W+M1; I usually ignore text chat but had to say, "out of the last three kills, 2 were reflected rockets and the other was a reserve shooter kill." he somehow thought that this somehow was still W+M1.
While Pub does matter, Valve should also really have been considering that many people think that any other class being able to kill THEM, is somehow broken. I don't play TF2 anymore but I do remember talentless demos just spamming grenades, sat next to more skilled demos who knew where to stand to use stickies so they could be detonated at around the point in time they could be reflected. I remember solders spamming rockets while others would pull out a shotgun or trying to ambush with a jump and melee weapon (works against some pyros) or just don't spam the rocket button but shoot at irregular intervals to make it harder to predict for reflect... every time in game I saw somebody complaining it was always the types that spam and play predictably and had no comprehension of class balance or how classes work/function.
Even at the height of power for the combo, pyro was still underpowered, they had no answer to sentries, could be shredded by semi-competent heavies, could be flanked by scouts, had little in the way of mobility options, etc. Demos and Soldiers did have answers to pyro but a lot of players just remained literally ignorant to those methods and instead declared it a class balance issue instead of what it actually was, which was a skill level issue, more skilled pyros can crush demos, soldiers, scouts but the reverse was always true too.
Actually a well made video. Quality level of early uncle Dane. Keep it up
They should revert the reserve shooter nerf and let it work with airblast again honestly, it was broken before but now that airblast doesn't work the same way I don't think it would be nearly as broken as it once was, pushing someone upwards with airblast now is much much harder
If only the Dragons Breath was a bit more reliable/forgiving, since it seems to cast a really thin ray when determining if you hit your target or not, definitely not as wide as the animation shows. Maybe if it did damage based on how close your aim was to the target, to give those shots that barely miss a bit of value.
Literally everyone except Pyro mains see Pyro as W+M1. And Soldier is even worse, he's just M1.
i really like the editing and music banger video
10:45 I actually disagree strongly about this nerf. This made it obsolete for pyro, he need a usable shotgun so the flare guns aren't the absolute best
I have a problem with tf2 which is when I wanted to play it says it needs to be downloaded again when I already had it and I had enough disk space but it said I didn't have enough disk space
I feel so old and nostalgic watching this
I’ve honestly never heard of the scorch shot dragon combo, I’m gonna try it out!
This video is Hella Clean , I think you could do on other classes , it surely would be interesting , keep up the good work
"pyro takes skill"
Yes
When Dragons Fury Was Released on Jungle Inferno Update I Thought That The Dragons Fury is A Combo Tool But Its Very op And Its Great For Killing Heavies And A Good Combo Tool
A true generalist class
@@infucktus4899 yes
good video plus you have good taste in music, even specifically within the pokemon b/w ost
"combo pyro is in a great place right now" lol, lmao even
I like your choice of music, brings back memories
What TF2 need ?
Remove pyro ? Nah,
A huge nerf ? Yes,
Buff other classes ? YES!!
Just like when Jungle Inferno called by him
*"T o d a y"*
Combo Pyro will always have a place in my heart. Nothing better than both your enemies and your fingers with 1000apm combos, then be called a W+M1 in chat
i cant even play pyro normally, cuz i always have +120 ping, and the fire goes with delay
@@GhostofFarta just get some respect and stop talking m8, people like you give spy mains a bad rep lmao
i like this video
good job :)
its 2021 and im still using the degreaser, flare gun and axtinguisher xd
When i think of pyro
The first thing that comes to my mind is the feeling of setting your enemies on fire
Igniting them one after the other
I Love It
Love the gen 5 music choices!
amen
epic pokemon black and white music lel
I wonder what combo pyro would look like if Heavy won the Meat vs Match election.
why is this music so familia- oooohhhhhhhh that's why
Man I didn’t know about the airblast change I thought I just became really bad at comboing flare shots all of a sudden
I’m not good at combo xd
I use degreser and stock shotgun sicle
keep up the great work!
Sometimes I wish I would have played around with the reserve shooter pyro back when it was a big deal
When I think pyro I say combo and make try hards rage quit lol.
@@GhostofFarta no
@@GhostofFarta damn you really are a child..
i miss my axtinguisher
i miss my equalizer
and i miss my sweet sweet dead ringer
rest in peace boys, you will be remembered
@@GhostofFarta kindly just stop, after you spammed "cry more pyro main" in all the comments, you threw any respect you had out the window, I cannot take you seriously after that,
Valve nerfed everything to appease comp players, when in the end none liked comp TF2 and it was all a waste of time.
This is a wonderful video, nice work
This is the only time when a youtuber can put the "only a small percentage of my viewers actually subscribe" thing
Back in the days you could deal 195 damage at close range. Nowdays you can deal 270 damage at close range.
Conclusion: this guy likes music from Pokémon black and white
Great video man.
Dragons fury pyro is a really strong subclass that people *really* underestimate.
Because the dragon fury shots are projectiles, can they be reflected as such? Or am I dum
@@noodlepotreal no you're actually right, they can be reflected, it's an absolute pain to do but yeah you can reflect them,
i love the pokemon music mixing with the video, you did a great job matching it with the video
the reserve shooter should've just been removed from pyro's loadout after the removal of the mini-crits on airblast. it's literally a downgrade at this point lol
1:15 I get ptsd everytime I see a stock sniper scoped in while walking forward
Easy. Fear. Anymore in the game, If I see a Pyro? I turn around and go the other way. I'm tired of fighting him. I'm so tired of being worse than the Pyro. I don't even play as Pyro much anymore from the PTSD. You cant play ANYTHING on a server with a Pyro that's half-way decent at their aim. It's fire. It's almost unavoidable. Hate Pyro.
Комбо-пиро как был имбой так и остался:
В руках задрота мейна солдат/демо/скаут тупо неиграбельны на ближке с оным - первым он тупо не дает разумно играть из-за рефлекта (либо среди толпы отражает весь спам либо в 1v1 сводит в 0 ваше оружие), скаута же оный пиро валит за секунду + без разброса урона и хитрега (тобишь когда у скаута -20 в упор на постоянку , то у пиро этого просто нет - в результате митшоты скаута суть полный рандом,а пиро даже не думает об этом). Пиро имеет всю ту же идею комбо 1-2 слота из TFC , но реализация сломанная (с шпионом например такая же ситуация - идея норм, но класс сломан).
I stopped playing TF2 years ago (I played from day 1, got my Orange Box at an actual brick and mortar store!) but combo Pyro was my favourite playstyle as soon as it was introduced. I think I stopped playing sometime around late 2011. I'm not sure if I ever realised that the Reserve Shooter could be equipped by Pyro or maybe I just wasn't playing the game much by that point; I'm pretty sure I would have remembered that since it sounds kind of broken.
Ultimately I quit playing the game because while I did enjoy playing all classes, I moved from being primarily a demo / soldier player to scout / pyro and lost interest in being forced to switch class constantly because some engineer decided to dedicate their entire existence to camping the best spot on the map every game.