don’t underestimate an Autistic’s ability to make friends
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- Опубліковано 20 вер 2024
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Overestimating my ability to make friends has been more of a problem than underestimating.
Oh dear… the words out of my mouth!
Same
Same for me, and idk how to fix it
@@olivermundell4742 If only I knew… when I interact with people it’s obviously too much… since I dont get their cues, they end up annoyed and tell me quite harshly. When I shut up nobody comes to me. Clearly there’s a middle ground that I cannot comprehend nor apply. This makes me feel unlikeble (sorry couldn’t figure out how that’s spelled… not my first language) and profoundly inadequate.
i kinda realised this from my current job. i get the sense that people are uncomfortable around me, or like, dislike me for... some reason.
but i tried to explain this to my supervisor at some point, and to friends, and i think it's because it has always been really easy for me to get people to open up in deeper ways, more vulnerable and serious ways. and that has led people to be okay with or fond of me, and reportedly see me as this very authentic kind of person. people trust me very easily usually, and i usually can make acquaintances very easily.
but at this current place it has been the total opposite. everyone is very closed up. part of it i think is the fact that they are around my age or just a little younger (i usually get on with people older than me tbh, tho i think it is more about experience and self-knowledge and being comfortable in oneself which correlates with age). my supervisor was honestly quite surprised by me saying 'hey it's been a couple months and it's getting hard for me to deal with the fact that socially i feel isolated, i usually have made acquaintances or work friends by now, and the fact it hasn't happened is really strange for me'. for him that has not been the case (citing lack of time to mingle in most workplaces), but like, that can be chalked up to a disregard for the discretion of appropriate timing for that tbh. i think the problem here is the workplace is mostly men, the atmosphere is masculine, and that is harder for me in general-i actually pivoted to a more femme presentation due to noticing it helps with women feeling more comfortable with me, but i think it does the opposite in masc dominated enviros because of a low current, very unconscious misogyny latent in the enviro (almost all my coworkers would be upset at the charge i think, but i don't mean active maliciousness or hatred, just ingrained distrust that is hard to break).
like, i have been able to chat with strangers about things in the same afternoon that most people find wildly inappropriate-deeper philosophical-worldview prodding conversations. i really love learning about how people interact with and view the world around them, their biases they approach with, the default assumptions they use to manage new experiences. i love learning how people indicate they have changed, how they notice changes in the society and world around them, what makes that noticeable to them and _when_ they notice. 'change' as an abstract subject fascinates me and it is such a watery kind of topic that anyone and everyone can pitch in on how to analyse it. so i can actually use this very precise interest as a way to make people feel p safe to talk, they can tell i am really interested, even tho i relate by saying 'oh, like for me, [similar idea], so i get that i think'. this is, uh, 'a deficit', i reckon, but it has been wildly successful....
i'm kinda glad to see this talked about, because i think little things like this are often overlooked or not considered. similarly, special interests in how people feel and think, or sexual pleasure, or communication, all these little human concepts, can be super positive to the people in our lives if people give us the chance. autism is associated with like, a disinterest in people, but like, i think for some, if not many, of us, the disinterest is a response to rejections, it happens over time because of environments that are hostile to genuine desire to connect with people in ways that matter. if people constantly scold you for this kind of way to connect or are closed off and shun anyone who attempts to go into deeper thoughts, then eventually, you just realise you need to pivot to some other thing to care about. (and then we will be scolded for being 'more autistic' as a result, too...)
i def think the fact i can get people to open up and trust me and talk about their actual feelings is part of my neurotype. this is not something neurotypical people are able to do easily, at all, and most of them tell me they 'usually don't like talking about' heavier topics usually, too. so, yeah. it's no wonder that it is usually easy for me to be on friendly terms with people from all over!
Well you're obviously very passionate about your study of other humans, and most people like talking about themselves and having someone actually be interested in them, so I can see why it works out. To me, it seems that you approach it more like a scientist (for example, a scientist studying sociology or psychology), who may be interested in their subjects, but not necessarily for their own sake, but for the sake of the ideas/data they provide.
Also are you actually Russian? Cause I am and your username made me chuckle a bit
I’ve literally been thinking about this a lot bc of recent friendships. A lot of issues in those relationships I wanted to really talk about so we could understand each other and grow from those experiences. But a lot of them seemed to prefer the idea of “let’s just apologize and move on”. I don’t like this way of conflict resolution as it’s almost like eating empty calories. Like yes, I ate so I don’t feel the need to eat anymore but I didn’t get any substance from it.
My best friend and I used to be roommate and we would never go to sleep without resolving an argument (like an old married couple lol). This would lead to bickering until 3am sometimes, but i always appreciated it because we never felt the need to bring these arguments up again afterwards. It was like a “speak now or forever hold your peace”
@@ronanmchugh2253 I love this, I would try to have these conversations with my old roommate/old friend but she said so herself she's not confrontational and decides to be petty instead. When we did have these types of conversations I swear we both felt so connected, but we only have a hand full of those and the rest of the time was both of us being petty over small things we could have just discussed. It felt horrible but I realized some point in I had to stop trying bc she was not a good friend to me :,) I want to be better at just asking ppl to have these conversations bc it truly is better than ignoring them
yeah i hated that too and then they did the same thing again that hurt me and it seems like they didnt care that im hurt by their actions/words
I’ve self diagnosed myself as autistic for almost a year now and because I dont have a formal diagnosis I always second guess myself. But Everytime you post something I relate to it so heavily and feel shocked at how validated my experiences feel all over again
If it makes you feel better I was officially diagnosed with 5 years ago and to this day I doubt autisticality😅
You really shouldn't doubt yourself just because you don't have a sheet of paper signed by a psychiatrist. Your self realization is valid ❤
This is the exact cycle I go through as well! You aren't alone :)
Trust yourself (plz) 🖤💚💜
Irene, I was wondering if you could make a video about when an autistic sense of justice can lead people astray due to black and white thinking etc. I feel like you’d be the perfect person to cover this topic with care and nuance. Either way, I’m interested to hear your thoughts on the topic of your video coming out tomorrow :)
ooo good idea! I’ve been covering this topic with some of my clients so I can definitely talk about it on a video
@@thethoughtspot222 I’ll look forward to you coverage of the topic 😁
(Possibly humorous anecdote?) I was diagnosed at 31 as a while male by a late-diagnosed white female clinician; and within my official diagnostic summary, as evidence in favor of my ASD diagnosis she remarked how I went off on a 20-ish minute tangent about Malcolm X and noted that I "spoke about The Black Panther Party quite a bit for a white person."
im autistic, yet id describe my thinking as anything but black and white. A few 'well studied' people seem to use this label in responce to some conflicts i have but if they are actually applying it to me as well, without seeing how i actually behave, then why? i try to account for as many interpretations as possible and am aware that my limited perspective can make it hard for me to recognize ideas/concepts outside of that but despite that, people discuss the whole black/white concept instead of adressing how i specifically behave despite making my perception of my own mindset quite clear.
i cant understand the whole black and white thing, and it almost seems like its just that neurodivergent thinking outside what someone can easily percieve is never credited (like a ven diagram where only the overlap of someones skills with my own is treated as skills that i have). what am i missing, said in a way that id actually be able to understand because i thought i could pick up on nuance/ inbetweens like "grey"
Haha, I couldn't help thinking about Elon Musk. It's an interesting topic. Having a strong sense of justice doesn't equal being a good person.
the average person wants to be right and they want to say what they say without confrontation and conversations. so as an autistic person when we respond, they see it as talking back and arguing which makes them uncomfortable and less likely to talk to you and be comfortable with you again.
The worst part is that this 'neurotypical flare' doesn't stay in the realm of facts, but also opinions. How many times have you seen the following conversation on something like Twitter?
NT:
"I like game X because it reminds me of game Y, something I played as a child and have quite a deep attachment to"
Autistic:
"Well I didn't have a whole lot of fun playing game Y when I was younger, so maybe this is why it led me down the path of finding game Z more enjoyable."
NT:
"YOU WERE RAISED WRONG. YOUR PARENTS, GRANDPARENTS, AND ENTIRE FAMILY LINE SHOULD BE WIPED OUT."
You know....I'm already crying seeing this title of this video 😭✨
I find it impossible to make friends. I feel like the part of me that makes most people naturally curious about other people and want friendship just doesn't exist. I do like going out with people and bonding over hobbies, but i rarely get the chance to do that because i haven't had friends since i was 12 and rely on the internet for all my interaction. I've always felt like i make people extremely uncomfortable or weirded out and i can never really have a proper conversation with people who don't share the same interests as me because i have practically zero life experiences from being on my own my whole adult/teen years. I just don't think i'd ever be able to have a truly close friend in my life time who will truly understand me. I don't even feel like many other autistic people can relate to me on this either since the ones i know irl don't have the issue where they have limited expression and talk a lot. I just don't give a friendly aura i guess and i feel like people think i am creepy and weird. I think part of this is that i apparently have schizoid personality disorder on top of autism which probably stems from being heavily isolated most of my life.
12:33 omg, yes. I was accused of back talking. I didn't know that clarifying and responding was going to be perceived as such an attack until it was too late and they all decided that I was confrontational and I was fired for not fitting in. Yay! Because that lead to my diagnosis.
It is not that I can't make friends, it is that I choose to not make friends anymore. I am waiting for someone who can reciprocate the same energy. I am really good at talking to anyone at any time. It is just super draining to look for a friend and they turn out to be a fake one.
It’s always been easy for me to connect with people a lot older than me. On one of the first days at an internship I sat down at a lunch table with people from another company that shared the office with us. I forgot it wasn’t just my company working at that office and had a lovely conversation with some older ladies. But when people from my company came for lunch they looked at me in surprise and gestured for me to join them instead, as if they were ”saving me” from that situation. Later they made remarks like I had made a funny social mistake and it felt a bit strange to me. The ladies were so nice, why shouldn’t I be able to have lunch with them just because they work at a different company or are older?
I like this perspective of leaning into Autistic traits to make better connections because it works with diverse groups and people. Your experience with coming off confrontational and being misunderstood is very relatable and our intentions always shine in the end if the connection is true: it’s not easy but worth it. Social constructs and expectations can have limiting effects on true bonding 🖖🏾🙂 another awesome video Irene, you communicate complex ideas really well! I admire that you foster progressive interactions within your community too
I love learning more about people, all types. Lately, I've been especially drawn to older parents with multiple kids because I want more kids. I just want to know how other people are navigating the intricacies of daily life with multiple kids. Like, how are you able to be successful, and how can I incorporate some of those habits/behaviors/perspective shifts into my own life. I'm fully on board with the idea of only taking advice from people who succeeding in the position that I want to reach.
Thank you for sharing your perspective!! Whenever someone brings up something that needs to be aknowledged/confronted, I aim to establish a shared understanding. So, I explain why I am/am not doing that behaviour. Many people view this as giving excuses, when I actually want them to understand the why of it so we can be on the same page. I feel like this video relates to that issue and I appreciate hearing it from an autistic person’s perspective.
I don’t know how common this is, but I’ve always made my friends by absorbing the friends of my “safe people” lol. I have had two or three friends throughout my life who I have trusted and loved so completely that, through their judgement of character, I can feel safe in becoming friends with their friends. There are very few instances in my life where I have sought out friendships by myself,unless absolutely necessary, like when I went to university and knew absolutely no one.
Thanks Irene you're the best. I will drink the water now, I'll remember to take those deep breaths later
Your complexion is just beautiful!! Apologies, I was compelled to mention it. Great video. Love the idea of categorising people types. I do this. Thank you 👍🏽
It is....glowey!
I relate to a lot in this video. Being inquisitive has helped me connect with others but sometimes is not well received. I can come off as intense or challenging when I ask questions when I’m really just gathering information. It does seem easier to get along with people both older and younger but not the same age. Thank you for exploring this topic.
You bring up some great points here. I loved your description of your boss giving feedback. Spot on!
I found that description interesting, I know that if I'm in a "confrontational" situation and I started getting dysregulated (like the boss was), I'd appreciate the other person checking in with me and making sure I'm ok before pressing on. Not sure if that would be considered appropriate with a boss though, it's definitely a tricky issue that depends a lot on the people involved and the closeness of the relationship.
11:40 I have always been this way.. never realized it was considered a social deficit.
Older people are genuine due to their life experience made them humble and kids because they are innocent and good in recognizing genuine care and love thru eyes.
Autistic people are just not made to play mind games and have hidden agendas. You will know where you stand with them, regardless of whether they like you or not. And that is why Autistic people get along well with older adults, kids and animals.
I find I have quite an easy time connecting with strangers, whether it be on public transportation (that seems to happen a lot 😅) or just meeting folks across different age spans for the first time in social settings such as book or writing clubs. I have a genuine curiosity for people and I find this leads to an ease of connection and camaraderie. I struggle a lot more in settings that seem to have a pre-established relational dynamic or hierarchy, such as joining a new work place where people are already friends and bonded with one another and comfortable in those dynamics. It feels very difficult and overwhelming to try to insert myself in those social settings because I feel like I need to conform or match the vibe of the group versus just be myself and get to know people 1:1. This video was awesome!
I’m from France and people tend not to be very friendly and talkative at least when they’re on their own and it’s very difficult to get them talking, it puts them off to see you be too friendly with them because they always believe there’s a catch. I know it’s a French thing or at least the city I’m in because I lived in Germany and Spain where interest is usually well received. But maybe it was well received coming from a foreigner who knows? I have a hard time understanding my peers and their insecurities and it makes me believe I’m in the wrong. Now I’m at university so it’s hard to make friends either way but I just don’t get how others get their social and emotional needs met. My therapist told me that people here are cold and I shouldn’t take it for myself, that maybe they don’t know what having their emotional and social needs met means..
I always find it so interesting to hear about social norms of other countries!
I many not be good at many neurotypical things, but I always make friends with the most honest and loyal people.
your premiere setup is simply amazing. do you illustrate and animate yourself?
thanks! youtube actually provides us with a few selections of premiere graphics, I'm not sure who the original artist is
7:20 here you mention how dependent neuroconforming people can be on things proceeding a particular way socially to feel comfortable.
I think it’s interesting how we as autistic people are seen as rigid when I know I can be respectful outside of upholding weird cultural or social norms that hold no meaning for me. I know because I actually find it very easy to socialize with people who are not American born. Americans are another story lol. I have been told I’m straight up manipulative for being too honest lol. Okay 🤷🏻♀️
i've been ruminating about this stuff for at least a year now, and not too long ago i thought maybe the disconnect that most of not all autistic people feel towards others is mostly because of expectation. Ive often come across autistic people online describing this disconnect as "living behind a wall of glass". and i thought, what if that wall is the embodiment of people's expectations? because i feel that the wall comes up the most, or i feel it most when an interaction isnt going as they thought it ought to go... in other words i didnt follow through on THEIR script. communications seem to fall apart immediately after someone realizes that im trying to expand on a thought and they just didnt see it coming and want to shut down rather than explore together. i really do feel like it is society with the social and communication deficits and hardly autistic people at all. experiencing this over and over again, its hard not to make a person bitter about this.
ur a light thank you
Your videos are so calming💜
Great topic! I resonate with it. I mske friends with people i meet randomly. For example one of my Uber drivers has become a close friend. I find unconventional ways of connecting to people. I do need to be careful because I am also gullible!
PS guys I’m a psychologist and I really think self diagnosis is valuable. I agree with other people who commented that it’s just important to trust yourself
My son is on the spectrum and he has friends yes on his spectrum but it's friends he is having fun. Also he has friends in taekwondo as well who don't have the disability.
I would like to see Kevin again in your videos lol.
I tend not to get along with old people. They always say the most racist shit. But i do live in idaho, so maybe that's why.
Some of them I’m sure are understanding of autism if they have experience being autistic themselves or know someone close to them who is autistic but I’ve met older people who make fun of my autistic friend.
Same, as a black women older generations do give me red flags, as I always have to fear that they are super ignorant about it and it's exhausting to try and talk about it with them. My best match have been neurodivergent people in my own age range.
stereotypes SUUUUCK - I have looked into this issue from different sides...
One is Iain McGilchrist's Master & His Emissary - Left vs Right Brain hemisphere perception and ooo it made sooo much sense.
then, Jill Bolte Taylor - TED talk
as well as late DONNA WILLIAMS - Autism & Sensing book (and youtube, where she explains "it")
oh yeah, I could sooo relate to THAT...
Olga Bogdashina then compared Donna William's perception with Aldous Huxley The Doors of Perception, where he talked about the reducing valve and what happened, if this reducing valve was no longer active...
RIGHT HEMISPHERE perception, all the way through.
Also see Bonnie Badenoch who talks about the CONNECTION - that can happen ONLY if the therapist is PRESENT...
and last but not least
Anna Breytenbach - INTERSPECIES communication
If you see the WHOLE picture here, it is YOUR RIGHT HEMISPHERE perception...
And if some left hemisphere moron comes along, dissecting this into bits and pieces, compartmentalizing "the whole picture" well then, it all falls appart literally...
Frinedship means to me. companionship, SHARING. and of course EMPATHY... getting each other, having your back.
therefore DON't dissect. it is all just a bloody ideology of a "norm" typical for left hemisphere perception.
what is going on in the background? (sound)
A cat or dog with a collar on shaking their head, that's what you can hear😂