Thanks for the comments on the original upload of this video. It was only up for a few minutes before I realised there was a BIG cock-up in the edit that needed urgent correction, but there were some nice comments already. You guys are great😊😊
@@tayzonday Hiya. I've had a draft reply to you waiting for me to finish for ages now! My perception of time really has been all over the place since I left the full-time treadmill. Life's been busy, but there's a conversation to continue!
@@tayzonday Most times when I need to handwrite something out on paper, I will compose it as a text message, where the recipient of the text is my phone number. Then, when I'm done composing, I just copy the words off my phone screen onto the paper. I do this same thing many times with UA-cam comments, & then I just copy & paste it from the text message screen to its destination.
@Autistamatic Hi Quin I appreciate this video a lot. My partner of 9years is autistic and I am, we believe, undiagnosed adhd inattentive type. (No point attempting to get a diagnosis in the UK rn sadly as I believe the waiting list to be about 200 years or something ridiculous!). We have a lot of misunderstandings and frustration around empathy- most of which we manage to iron out pretty quickly however ...My query to you is this; the autistic way of sharing a relatable story to show empathy or interest in an issue falls apart when the person has no relatable story to share. My partner just says "I've got nothing to add as I have never experienced this." I find this incredibly frustrating at times. I ask "can't you at least try to imagine a way through this issue?" He says no because he simply has not had any similar experience. How do you handle it when you have no similar story to relay to Express an understanding of someone elses' problem/situation/issue?
@@emmy_bobbington_jr I appreciate both sides of your dilemma. I can only speak from personal experience on this one though. In the first instance, few of my past partners were even willing to accept that my relating similar experience wasn't an exercise in one-upmanship, so I'm primarily talking about who I am NOW. I read and watch a lot of fiction AND take a great interest in "people" as a whole. When I encounter something in life that I can't personally relate to, I can often draw on a learned analogue - i.e. a story I've heard from a friend or in fiction. It's not as "meaty" as a personal analogue, but it serves as a starting point. Both Mrs A and I often refer to things we've watched together on TV to convey meaning when there's nothing in my personal experience to draw parallels with.
I always gravitate towards sharing a similar story because it feels like the best way to demonstrate that I empathise with their pain, or struggle, and I'm not looking at their position as if it were more of an abstract. I appreciated it when others did the same to me as it was a way of truly showing that they could understand and weren't just trying to give words which could be empty, superficial, and essentially a mindless Pavlovian response. There's a massive difference between "I experienced X, and it was horrible; give me attention instead" and "I experienced X, and I understand. I am here; you are not alone. You too will get through this."
@@gothboschincarnate3931 Yeah, a lot of people can get confused as to why you are relating your own story. It's a difference in perspective and perception; I try to tailor what I do depending on the person, so I've learned to usually hold back relating my own story as a means of establishing that I understand their feelings, and that they aren't alone. Unless they are more like me, of course. I dunno; I find neurotypicals to be very variable, and sometimes we need to consider that a focus on superficial elements in certain contexts can stem from social pressures and expectations, and belie a more complex, but perhaps insecure, person underneath.
As an autistic person, I've learned to ask people "would advice or suggestions be helpful, or do you moreso need me to listen while you get it off your chest?". It has helped a lot and even the neurotypical people I interact with have started using the phrase. I try to model it as much as I can since it benefits all parties in a conversation!
Love this! I think this is a useful question even to ask oneself. I know for myself it really depends on where I'm at in the process. If something JUST happened and I need to talk it out - just hearing "Shit dude. That sucks!" (Or an equivalent empathic story) can be super helpful. But other times I'm at a point where I am looking for solutions or for a broader perspective. I can't say that I'm always looking for one approach across the board. So - this question is a great tool for distinguishing that.
That doesn't work well for me because NT people have problems telling you the truth when you ask them a question like this. I think it puts pressure on them and they choose advice/suggestion when really they just want to be heard.
It seemed to me he wasn’t really talking about how an autistic man would respond, but more about how men often respond to women in general. When a woman just wants a man to listen and understand, he usually tries to fix the problem instead of just hearing her out. Women aren’t like machines that need fixing-we just want someone to listen. Or precisely to hear what he made fun of: "Oh, it must be so hard for you" and such. To me, it’s just the usual mix-up between how men and women think, whether they are autistic or not.
A few years ago. I had the owner of the shop next to mine ask me why I always had to talk about myself or someone I know when someone is explaining something that was going on in thier life. I told him it was to let people know that I can relate to them, and I understand what they are going through. He stared at me for a moment then scoffed and said, it sounds like you're just trying to become the center of the conversation and that's it's extremely rude and inconsiderate, it makes me sound like I dont really care about their situation. I tried to explain to him that I was just trying to show that I relate with what they were going through. He then said I needed to stop doing that because it makes people not like me. That really affected me, and that conversation changed how I interact with others because of what he said. I honestly thought there was something wrong with me. I cannot express the amount of gratitude I have for you posting this video. I'm normally not one to cry but this made me tear up. There's nothing wrong with me, thank you for letting me know
the blank stare as they try to understand a different way of thinking... I've seen that and hoped maybe they would gain understanding. Sometimes they DO, if they take a moment to realize there are other ways of being. Sadly, most in my life have not taken time to try to understand. I hope to try to understand them more, because I have been angry about their seeming lack of willingness to TRY to see that difference is ok, good even. Many are not open to that tho. Its ok...but I dont want non-empathy people in my life, too draining. And the un-called-for judgement is rough.
how do you interact with people now? it was very kind of him to point out what he thinks, but at the same time he told you what not to do, without telling you what to do. so now you are probably avoiding the behaviour of your intuition but there is nothing you can hang on to and you are orientation less in social interactions. what helped me a lot for avoiding sharing my own stories was finding interest in every detail about what someone else tells me. for example when they say "i was in a dance class" instead of answering "ah interesting i was in a dance class last year" i answer "did you like it?, what is your favourite dance, how were the people there, did you feel the music, would you dance that at a party when nobody else is dancing?" just show interest for every detail and try to get the other person to make you understand how they feel
It took me a long time to realize that sometimes when other people tell their stories after mine that they really were just trying to outdo me for sympathy or attention. It never occurred to me and seemed completely ridiculous. Why would anyone want to outdo me in bad experiences?? Who would want to have had a worse life like it's a badge of honor?? It wasn't until recently that I learned about social hierarchies and the lengths some people will go to to feel special...and why they think that's what I was doing.
They are projecting their own ego entitlement and therefore expect us to be doing/thinking the same as they would. It’s a sorry state of affairs because we also project our intentions onto others, but the difference is that our intentions are not based in selfishness and self-aggrandisement in these sort of situations. So we get told we are bad when we’re not and they end up none the wiser. What we mistakenly project is our care and kindness onto others that just don’t really have those qualities within them.
narcissists have to outdo everyone. many autistics are abused by narcissistic people even if they are not officially diagnosed. You are right, it is hard to understand meanness. But people out there are all about SELF. great comment!
Even then, I don't understand how people confuse the two. I used to be friends with a girl like this and, while I was terrible at reading tone and body language at the time, it quickly became obvious that she was trying to steal the spotlight. If the spotlight failed to shift over to her, she would continually interrupt the speaker, raising the intensity and stakes of her personal anecdote, sometimes even going as far as fake crying (I only feel confident saying it was fake because she was VERY bad at it). If a friend had a worse life than her in ways she couldn't outdo (self harm scars, bruises from domestic violence, hospital visits, etc.) she would punish that friend for "making everything about themselves," She once even went as far as telling a kid fresh out of the psychiatric ward that he made her want to off herself because he was such a horrible, selfish person. I don't understand how me saying "i went through this similar experience, which isn't exactly the same as what you're going through, but i found that doing this helped me a lot" can in any way be confused with that other sort of behavior.
@@LilChuunosuke Personally, what I've noticed is that people who confuse relating through a similar story with boasting and trying to steal the spotlight usually end up being that way themselves. They don't actually comprehend what the other person is telling them, they just hear contradiction (for some reason) and take it poorly. They're waiting for "there there" and anything that isn't that is wrong and bad. I stay away from those people because they barely even know other people exist. The minute you demonstrate you're a separate person from them...they dislike you.
@@LilChuunosuke I guess some people have low to no empathy, just like maybe I don't have a capacity to understand something like computers... just no capacity in me to "get it". Sadly, lack of empathy is real and the dark triad personalities operate in this...and they lots of times get away with no empathy because others with no to low empathy really just have no capacity to understand kindness and loving others is better than being self centered. But the world, like politics and business supports narcissists, etc., they get ahead because they dont think the rules of respecting others is for them...and they get away with it because people are afraid of bullies and mean girls. For me, I dont believe anything they say, because they only love their self. So how can they know truth anyhow? It is befuddling but so thankful for channels like this that help validate everyone's experience. It is hard to try to walk in NT shoes, but this video helped me see how they see a little bit. Makes me forgive them because they seem to enjoy not caring for others or about their effects on people. So thankful to know I have a TRIBE out there who understands these things... know that people do not determine our value...
2:15 i honestly always thought that sharing a similar anecdotal tale to the one you were just told was a way of relating to the person you’re speaking to.
And it in fact IS! I do that too! It's a great way to not only say "I relate to you" but actually proving it, and in your very own and unique way and in further detail.
When I was a child my mother told me me grandfather had Asperger's. When I asked what that meant she explained that he didn't have the capacity for empathy. It confused me because I never felt that way knowing him, he was a bit odd and forgetful and distant but not cold. I actually took a liking to the man and somehow could relate to him without ever really speaking a word to eachother. We enjoyed sitting in silence together away from the guests, there was a kind of serenity in our unspoken understanding of eachother. Years later I found out I had autism too.
My brain works in categories so when I respond to someone by spouting a similar experience or situation I've had, it's because my brain is just trying to categorize the information they just gave me. It's not because I'm thinking of myself. Or because I want to compete with them. It's just my brain taking information and putting it in a category.
In a similar way, I see it as part of my pattern matching. One of the things I’m asking by sharing a story of my own is, “am I understanding your situation and feelings correctly?” If I’m correct, I hope that you will understand those shared feelings. If I’m not correct, it gives an opportunity for you to correct me, so I can try again and hopefully match better. This is one place where I almost never lower the mask, though. Being 52 when diagnosed means I’ve hidden my natural tendencies for decades. I still do the pattern matching, but it’s rare that I will say it out loud because that’s not what you are supposed to do. Conversely, it means that I had literally never had anybody express empathy in a way that felt natural until I started seeing my late-diagnosed therapist a couple months ago, and the difference is profound.
I say that because I want to show them whether I had something similar so they know I relate to the experience. It's NOT because I am in a hidden and hideous competition to see who had it better, geez.
As an autistic therapist, I’ve always asked myself if my stories are me projecting or if I am countertransferrung unto others. I always ask my clients if said story matched their experience, and it’s astounding how many enjoy it. DBT refers to this as a form of validation. Clearly it helps
Likewise, as a therapist this relational way of self-disclosing can lower the power differential and reflects a more Buddhist-informed approach. It’s an example of folx not pointing from a boat at someone in the water when they’re swimming in despair. Which has therapist “neutral or detached” in a supposed “objective” state, but jumping into join in the emotional water with them. Yes the content/surface of our lives are always unique, but it’s the emotional undercurrent that connects our island of life experiences. ❤🌊
I am a therapist of over 20 years and have been using DBT about as long with clients. Today my psychologist confirmed my long term suspicion that I have autism. Just stumbled upon this video and started to panic hearing about the whole “storytelling as communication.” Started to think “Oh my gosh I do that way too much with my clients.” Before the video I knew I did it and just saw it as my method of normalizing, connecting on commonality, and sharing acquired wisdom. So glad to hear this positive feedback.
I have 3 friends through my entire life. One is neurotypical and somehow managed to drag me through school. The other two I met years later online and we just happened to live only about two hours apart. I can’t explain how it happened, but the three of us just clicked. One big reason was, that all three of us do this story-telling-to-relate-thing. It was the first time I met other people who did that and are to this day the only people I act completely like myself around. They ACTUALLY understand me, instead of just saying they do and in the next sentence question everything I do. When I needed support, they gave it in a way that actually made me feel better and not like I was being given white lies and empty promises. I later learned they are both ADHDers. It was one of those friends who implied (rather directly) that I might be autistic. It’s how my journey started. Getting a diagnosis is a pain, but I have time. I have “found my crowd” so to speak and I don’t really care that much about the official paper anymore. Accommodations are practically nonexistent. And if I am not autistic after all, I will still feel more at home with the neurodivergent people in my life than anyone else. It is such a relief not to have to act around them all the time, how they communicate the same way I do! It is so much easier! Thank you for an other wonderful video! ❤
It is pretty amazing to have that immediate clicking experience. I had a similar experience with the first friend I made in secondary school (after being friendless for some time), who I immediately clicked with and had many long conversations with. And as an adult they were diagnosed as ADHD - it makes sense in hindsight.
I pretty much always had one friend who kinda kidnapped me and I then stuck to them until they did not like me anymore and now I have 3 friends who are all ND and it explains so well, why i finaly actually feel confortable and safe with someone
Until I got called out about it, I had felt that sharing a narrative about myself was a way of giving emotional support by telling the other person "you're not alone"... The exact opposite of ego and selfishness.
Very well explained. I never realized that is what I was doing and how it is perceived by "normies". Also never cared about it, I've known people call me arrogant for knowing lots of trivia. I can't help having a decently good memory for trivia, and I'm not boasting that I know stuff. I just want to share the information, because it can be helpful or fun to know.
@@NaryanBergstrom You seem devoid of empathy. Also, you definitely think that neurotypical standards are the only acceptable and morally correct ways to communicate and exist, and see autism as a moral failing, based on how malicious your comment is. Please never speak to an autistic person ever again, or anyone else for that matter; your attitude is completely unnecessary and unwanted.
Yea, the intentions neurotypicals assign to our actions are baffling. I don’t get why people insist that sharing fun trivia is a display of superiority meant to make others feel inferior, I just like knowing cool things and think you would also like to know cool things too.
@@aceofspades8474 I'm constantly sharing fun facts with people and have never once been called arrogant for it. If that's happening to you, then there's a good chance you aren't doing it in a "hey, I bet you'd find this interesting" way, but more of a "heh, I bet you didn't know this" kind of way.
When telling someone about something bad that has happend to me and they just sit there saying nothing. what they apparently call "listening" just make me feeled ignored.
they might not have the tools to give us what we need... maybe they just dont know HOW to show kind empathy? I'm learning too, it is difficult to make sense of but dont give up, there are empathy-filled people out there, well right here in groups like this :)
I hear you. I can imagine that must feel quite uncomfortable, right? That's active listening. Not adding totally new information yourself, but showing the other person you listened and think about what they said.
@@unything2696active listening doesn't have to be done in total silence. you don't have to bring in new information or go on any sorta tangent to give a simple acknowledgement of what was said, that does way better to make sure the speaker knows they've been heard.
I don't think that's a specifically autistic thing. This form of "listening" just is objectively less useful than listening and then processing that information to try and come up with a solution. If someone doesn't want that, they're being silly.
@kiraoshiro9251 It also depends on the issues at hand, though. There can come a point where the thing you are bringing up is so intense that they can't really respond.
I am Autistic and sometimes what I really need is validation and support, not a plan going forward or "Rubik's cube solution," as I call it. My husband naturally responds in the typical Autistic way you have described in this video. I've learnt over the years, just to say outright, "What I am looking for right now is validation and support." Supportive responses are what help me shift out of my stuck emotions. It's only then that solutions are helpful to me.
I came looking for information to understand my son, I’m not autistic, and I think the problem is exactly as you describe. It’s not about being autistic or not-men always try to fix everything, while what we want is validation.
I think that's just being an emotional rather than logical person typa thing generally speaking. like gotta work through the emotions first before problem solving becomes enough of a priority. people can be autistic and not necessarily all that massively logic focused.
I think even non-autistic male-female couples have this same issue as men have a natural affinity to solve puzzles (even when it’s not a puzzle…it’s their way to support/protect you). I find it’s always best to communicate as plainly as possible. I love when my wife plainly says “tell me I’m not a bad person for doing x”. And then I can do that, and provide lots of details to support that thought, allowing her to accept or reject different points (without “solving” it for her, which I know can be annoying).
This comment makes me hopeful, I'm studying psychology with the intent of becoming a therapist and I'm often worried if it's a good idea with my asperger's
Yes, it is a question of neurodiversity not gender. I am a woman, and for me being understood is more important than being 'validated' in the neurotypical way. I feel validated when I feel understood. That is why I also try to understand the situation of another person first. It is not about 'fixing', it is my way to say: I see you, I see your situation, you are not crazy @@lortigosa
This is the only true way to show empathy. The problem is, allistic people don't have a clue what empathy is. They also have no desire to learn. They want platitudes, and 0 solutions. This ensures they can double, triple, quadruple the attention they get from "problems" they have no intention on fixing. This is why they don't fix their societal systems either. If everything worked correctly they wouldn't get the attention a broken system brings to them. So it's just feedback loops of endless suffering for everyone, but hey the get lot's of attention for pretending to fix it. It's the old cause a dumpster fire, then act like a hero for putting it out trick. They employ this technique from the top, all the way down to their individual systems. Employing this technique on any level is worthy of only ridicule. Your doing it right 😉
@@benphillips4081Can you show on the doll where allistic people touched you? Like seriously who hurt you to the point that you're trying to dismiss every other way of showing empathy just because you don't feel that they are right. Each kind has a place and time, but to ridicule a way that a person is trying to show it is basically going back to the double empathy problem discussed in the video. You're not doing anything but practicing it instead of trying to get rid of it. "Eye for an eye and the whole world goes blind", as they say. Hope that you take another look at yourself after this.
Oh my gosh. I had no idea that’s not what people wanted . I can only really relate to others through my own stories. I thought I was helping them . I never understood why some people didn’t care about me. Why they didn’t share their stories with me. Every day I learn a little something new about myself. I just started my journey of educating myself on being autistic. I’m self diagnosed. I am a 56 years old woman with no health care , there’s no way for me to even get an official diagnosis, even if I wanted one. But wow , I’m so glad I found your channel, among a few others , it’s been sooo helpful. Thank you
I self diagnosed myself with Aspergers Syndrome decades ago when I saw a documentary about it. I later had someone I work with, who has Autistic children, that he thinks I have AS too. I've never been diagnosed, but... I totally do this story thing, and it always shocked me when some people get really pissed off when I shared my own stories, of myself in a similar situation. I mean... how am I supposed understand pain if I've never experienced it? So to demonstrate I understand their pain, I tell them a situation I've been in where I've experienced it. Makes perfect sense to me!
The thing is people always react specifically to the situation at hand, we're more so programmed to respond. They all have the story that it's not okay to get too close to people or you'll get hurt. The world is a bad place. Don't trust people, ect. We're all afraid to love and people basically have reality programmed at a further distance than us that they can organically pull from within the confines of their minds programming. I like to think that maybe we would be even more organic if the world wasn't so afraid. Idk it's just my observation
friends of mine have called me narcissistic because i do this trying to connect more, it's really heartbreaking seeing that i'm not alone in that people wildly misinterpret our methods to empathize and how we function
I've always wanted to communicate with people with stories. And all I heard back "you are only talking about yourself". I mean, it is factual that when I communicate I talk a lot about myself. But I had to learn that I am autistic that relate to people when I compare my experience to their experience. If I am forbidden to do so (and I feel like that a lot among people) I cannot connect with people. So I keep feeling alienated. I can only connect with people who let me compare their experience to my experience. I used to think I am unable of altruism cause people only expected from me the kind of help that is extremely hard for me to do. At the same time when it comes to helping people with having a chat I can forget to eat, sleep, etc... I want to do that so much. It seems I do not lack altruism. I lack performative altruism. To be fair, I lack performative everything. I cannot do just to look good. I do things because I believe in the thing and feel it's important. I used to get angry when I heard about altruism but I think what made me angry is that I mostly seen performative altruism and it felt fake. Also, I am unable to compare human experiences as better or worse. There are far too many variable and too many scales. You can only give value to things and compare those values when they exist on the exactly same scale. In any other situation the value is subjective and it depends.
To my ears, you sound completely relatable and "normal". One cannot apply an objective value to a subjective experience such as emotion, and it's frustrating to watch people try & be judged for failing ourselves.
@@Autistamatic imagine my shock each time someone told me "you are acting like you are better/smarter than me" or "why are you trying to one-up me". And there I am not even being able to fathom such concepts so talk about acting like that. And now when I look at all those concepts of empathy I am starting to realize why I did not feel people having empathy for me when I was dealing with difficult things (maybe except for therapists). And I also understand now why people got angry with me when I was trying to give them my ideas on possible solutions to their problems.
The way people do that (don't share or want to hear about experiences or make it all about value judgments) it makes me think they must be incredibly lonely even when surrounded by friends and loved ones, because they know nothing of anyone else's experience or how it really relates to their own. In your own lifetime of experiences, you can only get a teeny tiny slice of the human experience. You can get many times more, through that genuine connection with others who have experiences you have not had and never will have.
When someone replies with a related story of their own, we have a better understanding of our relative points of view & knowledge on the subject. I spent a lot of time in Aviation, both as a Mechanic, & Skydiver. I love the way things are debriefed in Aviation. When people offer Platitudes & Sycophancy it feels like obstruction, as though the other person is intentionally misunderstanding & are actively pacifying a known problem.
Well said Quinn, what you have described is the kind of empathy that I understand and find helpful. People patting my shoulder and saying that "everything will be ok" is likely to upset me more because at that point I don't see that it will be and just saying it won't make it better.
@Autistamatic we need an epidemic of videos and short clips spread real emphaty. Creating community must haves, to raise funds for our fellow neighbors. Communities can begin ❤
Excellent observation. Relating our own story is our way of showing we understand what the other person is feeling. They say autistic people can't "put themselves in someone else's shoes" (i.e. relate to others' lives), but we obviously can, to be able to recount a similar story. Saying all that, since I realised I've spent my life doing it, I now restrict (aka mask) my responses a lot more so it doesn't look like I'm making it about me, even though it never was meant that way.
Oh my god, thank you for this video. I have had a number of comments over my adult life that when someone is speaking to me, that I'm not to engage back or tell a story of my own. I always thought that this was naturally a part of conversation, to connect, to show empathy. I never understood what exactly the problem was until I watched this and now it all makes sense... WOW! I didn't understand why people didn't respond to me well in some conversations and what was expected of me. It's taken 48years to finally find this out, what an eye opener! Thanks again
I have heard of the concept of people “telling on themselves”; indicating their true thoughts and feelings by what they assume is causing behavior in others. We tend to assume others more or less think and feel as we do; the alternative is terribly cumbersome and awkward to deal with, and not really necessary when the two people do have similar ways of thinking and feeling. The problem arises when two people have drastically different ways of thinking and feeling, autistics vs allistics just being one example. I told the psychologist who diagnosed me that it was very hard to answer the questionnaires at times, because I had to try to take on the viewpoint of an allistic looking at me from outside and making assumptions about my inner world based on my behavior and what within THEM would produce that behavior. He agreed that this would be particularly difficult for an autistic person by definition. Seemed like a nice guy, that fellow. 🙂
I think you are right with this telling on ourselves. And this is not strictly an NT vs ND thing. You can also see it when one partner cheats on their spouse then starts accusing the spouse of cheating. It isn't because the spouse is cheating. It's because they themselves are cheating and they are picking up on their spouse behaviours that they do when they are hiding rhe cheating and so project that intent onto their spouse actions. No their spouse just happened to place their phone screen side down for no reason, they didn't do it to hit any thing like the cheater does.
Yes! (I found myself repeating, "YES" throughout the video.) This is something I've always struggled with, but have never been able to articulate as thoroughly and accurately as you have here. I always got the sense that when I replied to someone's story with one of my own, that it either wasn't helping, they were disinterested, or they were flat-out irritated. Over the years, and with therapy teaching me to do so, I developed a mask where I just sat there like a robot and offered an "awww" every few minutes, reflective phrases, and basically just agreeing and validating. It was shocking to me that *this* is what went over best with almost everyone. I would feel so awkward, like, what am I even offering here? Can't they tell I am just throwing in a token word here or there? But I could tell that it was probably what they wanted because if I tried to share something I had learned, or connect on an experience that I hoped communicated that I could understand their experience, everything would fall apart--or the person might clam up. But if I just shut up and nodded my head and said, "aww" as much as possible, people would sometimes profusely thank me for the conversation--which was *so* confusing because I didn't actually offer anything! I find information and problem-solving to be extremely comforting. In turn, my way of comforting is to understand the problem and provide information that might help. I want to go out of my way and do things like do research, help with tasks, do anything and everything I could think of that might take a load off and add assistance or at least understanding. I wondered why when I would let someone know what was going on for me (such as a comment in passing, or conveying information because it affects a schedule or some other thing), the person would sometimes respond with something like, "OMG that sounds awful! I am so sorry!" The overreaction always confused me because I wasn't seeking sympathy. I would stop and clarify that it's okay, it's really not something I am upset about, I just wanted to let you know because (insert reason here). But I always feel silly in these situations because I do not intend to come across as seeking sympathy. I was not diagnosed with ASD until after I had been married for some time, so my partner and I had a lot of conflict in the early years, as neither one of us was aware of our communication differences. Since it was unnatural to me and not something I'd been taught, I learned in couples therapy that it's expected that I do not simply respond to an emotionally charged statement, but that I need to first stop and validate my partner's feelings before I say anything further. I still struggle with that because it's not something I am looking for myself, so it's easy to forget that step before the conversation can proceed. When someone tries to validate my feelings, it feels manufactured and weird. I'd rather they just respond naturally--whether it be with perspective, problem-solving, opinion, information (about themselves or anything else), etc. But I learned that my partner often felt alone and invalidated in our communication. I learned that it is best to respond with, "I understand why you would feel that way and how difficult that is," and then listen for more and offer more validation (without responding) along the way. I find that difficult, as it feels so artificial, and I still don't do well at it. I don't want to come across as uncaring, as I would genuinely give the shirt off my back if it would help a person somehow. I will go out of my way to help if it's something I can help with. But just shutting up and offering statements like, "I understand your feelings and they are completely valid" is, honestly, ridiculous and unnecessary to me. In my mind, of course feelings are valid--all of ours are. I may agree or disagree, but that doesn't mean that it isn't valid or understandable. I always thought that was a given, but I learned that it's not, and that I need to stop and communicate it specifically, and that most of the time, my job is simply to listen and validate, not to offer solutions. Which still contrasts sharply with what I would want for myself. Anyhow, I have rambled on for too long! I'm just so happy that I saw this video today, as you beautifully described the turmoil and discomfort I have felt when communicating with others. :)
Thank you for this long explanation. I'm nt and trying to get behind the differences in communication (and the misunderstandings) between nt and nd people. Your comment helped me a lot. Like your husband I don't feel comfortable when people relate by sharing their story. I now better understand why they do this and the intention behind it. And I also understand better why I'm not comfortable with this way of communication. Not yet, but I'm willing to learn. So, thank you again.
@fraum3725 Thank you for the feedback! It really is difficult on both sides at times. I totally get feeling uncomfortable when something isn't our natural way of thinking and communicating. And I'm glad that the video and comments helped!
thank you for sharing this... it is good to learn to love them how they need love, but love goes both ways. I guess we each feel loved in different ways. Its a successful couple, imho, who loves each other enough to learn how to love the other person they WAY they feel loved. It goes for both people in the relationship. We can give them what they need, but if they really care for us, they will take the time to also love us how we need. Great share, TY, inspiring to me!
@@fraum3725 TY for sharing and God bless you in your desire to learn! We all need to learn how others need to be heard and loved. It does go both ways. Those who try will have more loving relationships I think :)
So glad you did this video. Maybe this is why therapy seems so ineffective. The therapist is required to not tell personal stories back and often when they do they are so far off target that I felt doubly unheard. Also my experience is they give generic advice as if they had not heard. I am sharing with my OT as she had not heard of double empathy. And I was hoping this will be part of my final session.
Ooh very good points! Therapy has never helped me fit this very reason. It’s felt like such an exhausting waste of time and sometimes left me more traumatised than I was to start with.
@@Autistic_AF Absolutely Depends on the therapist. It was actually the last psychologist that said “have you heard of neurodivergence?” I said my nephew is autistic…. Pause then I realized this was my appointment and the rest was 🤦♀️. So only 2 of 64 years of knowing why I am so different and after 13 years of various therapies this was life changing and healing.
This was exactly my problem with talk therapy many years ago. I went there but since they're not supposed to actually respond with their own opinions I just started to feel so lost and confused, because there was just no sense of direction. I went there, vented and went back home. The goal and purpose was unclear. I needed to hear what something could mean so I could figure out what I could do or think differently. If someone says, "this is what I think" it's helpful because it creates a different reference point I can further develop based on my own understanding of things.
I relate to the world through compairing experiences. Often times I will actively seek out someone elses story about a similar experience they have had in order to understand myself. It assists me in problem solving, because the experiences of another provide me with guidance. My intention when sharing a story is to provide helpful information to another. I have never really found platitudes useful. If anything, they come off as fake, or a way to push away the feelings of another, or myself. To me, receiving logic based solutions or possibilities I can attempt to use to resolve a problem is the deepest form of care. It shows the other person considered my issue beyond the surface level. This is why I try to do the same for others- to treat them how I wish to be treated. To abide by what I feel is respectful and just. It is an alien concept to me to think that this could be misinterpreted as an attempt at competition. I don't have a single competative bone in my body. I still remember the first time I was on the receiving end of this form of care from a fellow autist. I didn't know I was an autist at the time, but I was very emotional about the fact that coffee had been spilled on my mother's laptop by a family member, and esentially destroyed it. I was upset because I had just received a new laptop for Christmas, and I felt horrible that my mother now didn't have her laptop, while I had mine. When I told my autist friend, their immediate response was to ask for the laptop model number and instruct me on how to draw the moisture out of the device. While I went out to get a bag of rice to absorb moisture, they had been busily looking up the laptops manual, along with tutorials on how to take the computer apart. She then helped me find a replacement keyboard and walked me through what I'd have to do to fix the laptop. With her instruction over instant messenger, I succeded in dismantling, cleaning, and installing a new keyboard on the laptop. It ran well for 3 more years after, until the GPU died and we got mum a new laptop. By acknowledging my distress and helping me regulate my emotions through a solution based approach, she single handedly resolved the helplessness I felt. It was so different from what anyone else had ever done for me, but it was exactly what I needed at the time. I still remember that moment because it was such a stark contrast to other times I'd been distressed in my life. I felt she really cared, and she did. I believe autistic love language is expressed through attempting to help you resolve what distresses you because we are so often missing those resolutions in our own lives. So we try to give that to each other through stories and solutions.
Sharing a similar story is the only way I know how to say, or I guess more accurately demonstrate, 'I get you, you're not alone, we share this kind of experience.' I turn off a lot of people on a regular basis, and I have learned to shrug that off. To think my way of empathizing, could be one of the key causes... bring tears to my eyes. I think you are bang on pointing out how our gifts, are reinterpreted as autistic weaknesses, and not societal lacking. For those of us with that strong sense of justice, it's a lifetime of confusion, gritted teeth, and just being plain dumbfounded over how shallow typical people can be, prefer to be?
When I attended 12-step meetings years ago, I learned not to reply directly to a person's testimony, thereby stealing their thunder or offering them solutions. It could result in your interpreting their experience in a way that was not accurate, while taking the attention away from them. But, when it was your turn, you could relay an experience related to theirs. That could provide a broader perspective on the issue. And it could help the sufferer understand they are not alone, others have suffered that way too. Thereby helping them gently turn away from the solipsism people in emotional pain often feel. So offering your own story back is therpeutic.
This is interesting. That maybe this double empathy is practiced in these programs. I will think about this for awhile. I have grown up around a 12-step program. matter of a fact, someone in an old timers said I was the oldest timer there, given that I was at my first meetings when I was about 1 years of age. However, I go to a different 12 step program than my parents. My mother has 49 years this past July.
1:48 I been accused of trying to one-up someone, to take over the conversation, and NO! That's not my intent at all! Solidarity is a big feeling, and I naturally share a story I know of, for how dare I speak for anyone else! I share my side related to your side as an act of genuine empathy. Bragging is more of a neurotypical thing, not my thing.
There's a couple of disconnects that cause this. Bragging is about climbing their social hierarchy, which we either don't realize it exists or don't care about it. But they find that inconceivable because it's one of the most important things to them. Extremes are interesting, for us they don't have to be my extreme or your extreme to be more or less interesting, for them it's important whose extreme is more extremerer. Also whenever two things are different they seem to automatically apply value judgments to those things, one is "better" than the other in their minds, and since your mind cannot possibly work differently to theirs, you obviously must be trying to one-up them.
@@LiftPizzas You make a lot of sense of what never made sense to me. I heard about Social Currency only within the past few years, and I have ZERO interest in social currency. NOt my fault if they assign values that I dont have... but I end up 'paying' for it, being punished so much for something they made up in their minds. *shrug*
@@Green_Roc I must have been at least in my 20s or 30s before I realized that people see themselves as part of a hierarchy. Though it does make a lot more sense of their actions (like gossip, jewelry and other status symbols, and other social climbing nonsense) when you realize they value it so much. (It used to be valuable in a primitive society, but nowadays it's just vestigial behavior and they keep doing it and not even knowing why.) I refused to use titles (mr, mrs, aunt, uncle) as a kid when addressing adults because it made no sense. (I got around it by NEVER addressing an adult by any name at all, just start talking at them without addressing them first. LOL.)
@@LiftPizzas I can relate! I was rejected from a few communities because I did not "respect" their role, when the person never proved on her own to be someone I could look up to. A title doesn't declare my trust/respect of a person. Their reactions towards me will decide if I value their authority, or not.
This is awesome! One autistic puts out a video about double empathy, and the comments section is filled with examples of us telling our stories to show we get it. Thank you for putting this out. This is also the first time hearing the term situational mutism, which is something I experience often when I get over stimulated. It's nice to know it's not just a "me" thing and that there's a name for it.
Its amazing watching these videos and learning new things that are common experiences. To me it just seems if someone tells me a story, what they want from me is a related story I have, If I have one. I'll have nothing to say if I don't have an anecdote from my life.
Right? Like, that feeling of, OMG, that is so relatable, as in, the time I… leading to a back and forth of stories that can go on hours, vs. OMG, I can’t even imagine what you are going through. It’s the difference between I like you because we can relate, and looks like we have nothing in common.
@@ladyogilvyI really don’t like it when people say the empty niceties and then want to change the subject. It really makes me wish I’d never asked for their opinion or told them something.
@@tracik1277 this is exactly how I feel. I've been told that I'm pedantic because of this tendency to relate stories from my life when people tell me about theirs. I didn't realize that this is an autistic trait.
Great video. I share my experiences all the time because if I know someone went through something I went through then I can truly understand. Just showing that I understand and can relate based on actual experience. True empathy, not sympathy.
Telling my story that is similar to another person's story has always been my way to relate and to let them know, you're not alone, me too, we're feeling the same thing. Kind of like a verbal hug. When you're in that moment and you're just sharing the space and moment.
Hello! I'm autistic and about the "issue" brought up at the beginning: I usually say to others: "I don't mean to come across as boastful or suchlike, just sharing my own personal experience so you can understand I understand what you're going through." Or I sya something similar. Thusfar this has worked, and even gotten positive responses: "That makes sense!" Or: "I didn't take it as anything negative, thanks for sharing." It would baffle me if someone would say it's black-catting. In a way they kind of are. "I understand social cues better than you, how dare you communicate this way." Well, that is, I hope I'm using the phrase correctly here 😅
When this kind of sharing happens in my life, I call it 'resonating stories' and sometimes it works brilliantly and brings two people closer surprisingly quickly... but very often I need to find that mental space to contain the story that's almost jumping out of me, because this is NOT what the other person wants or needs. It's very natural for me to try to connect this way AND also offer some practical solutions, which other people may see as unsolicited advice (and worse). What they can't see is I'm not doing it from some intellectual high ground or to get all the attention, or to make myself feel more important/better/smarter than them, but because I genuinely care and want to help, and in a way, I'm 'resonating' with their emotions to the point that they feel like I'm holding them inside me.
I discovered my autism at 65 years of age, and among the millions of epiphanies, one of them has been this. How well I recall the humiliation and pain I felt back in college when my roomate upbraided me because "every time I tell you about something I'm going through, you start talking about something you went through." I was thunderstruck, viscerally stunned. This was my way of trying to say I understood, and it was devastating to me to realize it was taken in completely the opposite way, as if I were trying to top him or simply ignore his feelings.
I'm only just learning and coming to accept that I'm autistic on the eve of my 31st birthday. I've never felt so seen since coming to this realization. Thank you so much for making this beautiful video.❤
Thanks for this video. People have told me that I could be autistic, but this video made me really feel it. This is exactly most typical communication issue I have, that people often read my comments as trying to valuate something, when it is not about that. Which have teached me to overly explain, how my comment is not about who is better or what is better, but rather for mutual understanding and perspective and so on. How ever on "there there" comment, it is not just ego boost. People sometimes want to share and experience emotion with people and they want room for it. For them going on solutions is neglecting the existence of emotion. So what I do is at some extence be in the emotion with them and push aside solutions, until it seems like emotional part is over. Sometimes people never want solutions, in those cases I can't help and I have to accept it
I've known my whole life that when I relate to other people's stories by telling my own, that it annoyed them.... And like the host I tried just making the required noises instead. But any time I genuinely felt empathy, and wanted to connect, I would instinctively go back to relating by telling my own stories. Glad to know my intentions were correct at least.
Yes, this IS us displaying that we DO have mirror neurons and we DO have empathy - just that our way of thinking and expressing it comes from a place of "look, listen, I can relate to how you feel" and an immediate genuine humanitarian impulse to help fix problem or relieve suffering. Being labeled as selfish for that is heart-wrenching and undermines our common need for interhuman connection, and can even train us to become less empathetic. Great video, i love your calm, balanced, grown up way of illuminating the subject, Quinn! Will definitely share with those who need to understand us better. It may actually be a very good starting point to learn about autism.. I finally got diagnosed last year, in my late 40's, after years fighting to be heard and treated humanly. Not really been able to talk to family/friends about this most important breakthrough of my life, due to aversion / little interest on their part, and a full head exploded with insights difficult to channel into tasty bite-sized info-nuggets on my part. Getting there though, and videos like this are great for sharing / introduction to relevant topics due to the concise, thought through and compassionate manner in which they are made. You are a wonderful and important ambassador for some of us, thank you very much Quinn, you are much appreciated! ❤
I think this is one of your very best videos. I hope to share it with some allistic people if they are open to it. I have certainly suffered, and lost my job, because of the double empathy problem. Thank you for this!
My brother, you explained it. I've been trying to learn these things for > 67 years AND have known 2 non autistic people who understood (Both women, if that matters at all). I think that part of the problem communicating with non autists is that they don't have the same interest in detail as we tend to have? THANK you, as always!
"This!" I've been accused of not having empathy. And yet, I feel as if I'm more intensely empathetic than most people I know. I had to discover, quite accidentally, that what other people want is the "there, there, you poor dear thing," whereas that type of response from others will only grate my nerves. I seek to feel understood by someone who has been through a similar experience and can offer practical guidance. It turns out that others don't want help and they dont want to resolve any problems. They just want to receive an empty, sugar-coated "everything will be fine" response. ... and then I learned that I'm Autistic and that a double empathy situation exists.
it is hard for me to understand that some people only WANT those pat answers...and someone to listen. But when they spout the same problems for years, I cant take it anymore, lol. When they refuse to seek solutions, I have to decide for myself that my 'listening' to them isnt helping me or them. I dont want to be on the recieving end of a constant dump truck of emotions from someone who refuses to work toward a solution after a while. I don't have energy to be a "good listener" for those who only want validation for their complaining. It is grating!
Great work, I'm not autistic but I'm more than sure I've interfaced with a lot of them in IT. What I've tended to notice is these sorts of people tend to be far more authentic, it doesn't cross their minds that someone is simply wanting sympathy rather than true empathy which are solutions and advice based, which is the difference between helping and simply wallowing in group feelings.
Exactly this! I feel usually compassion and authenticity by autistic people (I hate that label tbh). I think this says more about society itself than them. Meaning, society is so inflexible and dogmatic/close minded that everything which doesn't exactly match their standard is automatically alienated.
If someone is going to tell me their feelings, then I am going to be emotionally invested. I will listen, and I will ask them if they are interested in any advice if I have any.
That person saying it's black catting is projecting. If they were responding with their own story, it would be to one up and get attention. They're the narcissist. Before I was diagnosed, I got in trouble a lot for this. Honestly, I would say it, I thought, because we had a shared experience. I thought "wow, we have a connection!"And that often didn't happen. Sometimes, I would be so shocked at how uncanny the connections, I would keep responding with my experiences, until someone would accuse me of trying to "one up", which never entered my mind.
It's also no win. Autistic individuals get trawled for empathy by those who intend to give nothing back socially because they regard themselves as better-than. Autistic individuals get trawled because they've done a lot of reflecting, objectively categorising experiences, reading etc and faced untold challenges in solitude.
To me that person's comment seemed full of hurt anger. Makes me think that there's someone in their life who is a one-upper. Those people definitely exist, and it makes sense that someone who is repeatedly subjected to that sort of thing will read ALL similar situations as one-upping. (Or black catting. That was a new term for me) When I read or hear overly harsh statements like that, it indicates deep hurt on the part of the speaker/writer. I don't think it was necessary to make that statement the centre of this video, as if it's the standard neurotypical view.
I don't think highlighting that comment was an effort to show the standard neurotypical response. It was to show a common incorrect assumption that I am very sure every single autistic person has been accused of. And it goes beyond autistic vs neurotypical it is about what our society thinks empathy is and how there is a fundamental misunderstanding that prevents people recognizing true compassion when it's infront of them. The way Autistic people express empathy is a very vulnerable practice that can leave them in danger of being mocked for their experiences and a lot of people are uncomfortable with vulnerability for this reason, so some may think the practice can't be genuine because who would ever be so vulnerable willingly unless there was something else in it for them. As Quinn stated in the video autistic people are very compassionate people (in general of course everyone is different) and even academics can't see this as a positive because compassionate people can be abused so the autistic person must be defective in someway to be willingly compassionate.
Or maybe this person was hurt by a narcissist and reacting based on that. Part of empathy is giving people the benefit of the doubt. I personally think it's better to assume someone is ignorant (just lack of knowledge, not calling them stupid) rather than assuming they are being malicious.
In my experience it’s usually the length of time used for the story. As a lot of neurotypicals do relate but usually keep it to “I’ve experienced this too so I know how you feel” or a short summation of the story instead of going into detail on your own. This may seem like since it’s so long in the conversation without the focus on the original issue that the other person is trying to get attention or sympathy. If people respond badly with the short version too then that’s a them problem.
As a female and only diagnosed with ADHD at 45. I’m now in therapy trying to undo all the false perceptions I have had of myself that neurotypicals have put on me over the years. Luckily I had worked out that I’m sharing to try and communicate to the other person that I understand. But for a few years though I stopped saying anything about myself because I thought I was selfish. It’s funny I can make eye contact and don’t shutdown around other neurodiverse people. I’m starting to wonder if the eye contact thing for me is shame based. And if the shutdown for me is just the reaction to just having no idea about what to say without being perceived as ‘wrong’ or ‘selfish’ or ‘weird’. Like an IFS protective part coming in to save me. Narcissistic do oneupmanship as a way to feel better about themselves, because deep down they they don’t feel good about themselves at all. (IFS is really good for understanding all this.)
Hey Quin I'd just like to say thankyou for being there for the future generation of autists. Your videos discussing autism are quite informative. I wish I'd had them growing up.
Woh thats is an eye opener Quin, Thank you. This is how I have always interacted, I have also learned its important to give silence for thinking time, although this is all still a work in progress as am I. It never acured to me people would think sharing and showing understanding was selfish. Relationship = Sharing Sharing creates understanding. Understanding help compassion for diversity. The Story is a gift.
Thank you for explaining this so clearly. I'm hoping some of my friends/family will watch it. I remember, at 14yo, living with my Aunt and Uncle, once being called out by my uncle for responding to other peoples' stories. He wasn't kind about it... especially considering my mom had died that same year. "Why do you that?! It's selfish to respond to people by talking about yourself." At the time, I was confused because I didn't know how else to respond to people. I told him, "its because I want to show that I understand." Even to this day, nearly 30 years later, that sticks in my mind as the first time I realized most people don't understand me... I did, however, learn to respond differently to people. The funny thing is, even now when responding to others the "right" way, I do so with the conscious act of remembering that conversation with my uncle so many years ago. The sadder bit is, when I tell a story of my own, not in response to another person, I almost never get the reaction I would want.
I hope you take this as the compliment I intend. I just discovered you a couple days ago. Your voice is very soothing to listen to, and sometimes I listen to just the audio of the video. The pacing and pauses feel like a podcast, and I mean this as a positive, as it's very easy to listen to and process what you say. Along with the audio cues you include. Having the visual of the video on UA-cam is just icing on top of the proverbial cake, and definitely enhances the experience as a result. I'm really enjoying when I watch and listen to your videos. Thank you for this experience, and for the content you provide.
This whole issue is based off a presumptuous mentality: "I shared a personal story with you with the expectation that you care - your response is to share a relatable personal story with me and expect that I care? How dare you! How rude!" It is a demonstration that the personal story shared was not shared to be communicative but rather performative. They are grumbling about not receiving applause, instead being made an audience member in turn. There is a lack of gratitude at the realization that anyone taking the time to respond in kind with their own personal experience DOES care. Personally, if I really didn't care about someone's personal story, I would let them finish and shrug: 'cool story' and that would be all they get. I know people who might just ignore them outright. It's a symptom of our egocentric culture and it should be challenged with higher thinking - like this video.
Brilliant and spot! I loved watching your interaction with Mike. It “felt” like the relationship time I have with a couple of people in my life…. one diagnosed autistic, the other not but displaying a few traits. The first “healthy” adult relationships I’ve ever had after almost 60 years of repeated unrelenting unhealthy relationships. It’s the narcissist type that does not want to be bothered by your “connection” story demonstrating you relate. They feel upstaged or that you want to share their stage. And call you selfish or even a “conversational narcissist” always making it all about you… vs them. The majority are not offended. The narcissist type is. Hollow words of empathy… the “there there” and belittling or downplaying the struggle you are experiencing , the Polyanna programming is often frustrating to the autistic. It doesn’t display that empathy “connection”. 🤷♀️
Yes! Autistics don't have a natural affinity for "performative empathy" or "performative altruism," "performative worship" or "performative love." Allistics pick up these social communication patterns very early, following their primitive fight/fight/freeze/fawn instincts to remain firmly attached to "the group" or "the tribe," in order to survive.
I am so happy you have brought this up because I do this myself and everybody says i am being selfish and everything's about me it's not I'm trying to empathize with the person I'm talking to
My partner of 3.5 years started calling me out for this all the time. It was one of the reasons I finally found out that I'm autistic and ADHD at age 39!
Yes! This is exactly how I work and while I'm telling my story I have this feeling that I'm sharing it because we'll all understand each other better and feel less alone. This is the same drive I have with info-dumping. I found out something new that improves my life, now I want to plug in the data cable to someone else and do a system update to the new information even though it doesn't work this way. Telling stories to show empathy reminds me of Star Trek The Next Generation when picard crash lands with the alien who speaks in stories. The ancient story is Darmok and Jalad at Tanagra. On that planet they tell the new story that is like the old story but about them now Picard and Dathon at El-Adrel. I'm trying to literally show the empathy in its historic context.
4:23 I left a similar comment on that video: As a coping mechanism for the HYPER-EMPATHY you described @ 6:29, “Autists” CHOOSE close off our minds when another person is hurting, so we don't need to feel that pain ourselves. I propose that it's another character on Star Trek (besides Vulcans) who best exemplifies Autistic empathy specifically: Deanna Troi on TNG. Since she’s only half-Betazoid, she’s not telepathic like full Betazoids, but she can read most species' emotions. In TNG’s pilot episode “Encounter at Farpoint”, she intentionally closes her mind at one point because reading the emotions of one particular life form is causing her INTENSE (Emotional & Physical) PAIN. This (& also, by helping the other person to feel better, we no longer need to feel their pain ourselves) is the reason that we do what appear to be unselfish actions, but are in reality done for (somewhat) selfish motives.
true, we want peace for them and for ourselves. I don't think that is always selfish, but a goal that seems like all people would WANT. It's just that some people find it easier to be mean and not seek to understand. We only want to be accepted for who we are...just like NTs... if the heart motive is pure then it is not self centerdness... but I understand what you are saying, and I will try to be more understanding of those whom I wish would understand me.
'Hmmmmmm why do I always pretend to be a telepathic alien?' - my autistic arse wondering about my habits when daydreaming myself into the Star Trek universe
I've learned that empathy can be a curse due to being exploited. I'm affective empathic but it's so draining. It's why I'm alone now. Society is just overwhelming.
I wonder if you, like me, have frequently been steamrolled in conversation due to being a compassionate listener? It's a tough situation (to put it mildly) when you really would like to be present & responsive for someone but they take your apparent 'passive' demeanor as an excuse to emotionally dump &/or assert some weird kind of dominance. Very exploitative, IMO. Apologies if that isn't the type of exploitation you meant. 🩵
I read something about sometimes powerless empathy is just increasing the suffering in the world. I wear earbuds when running errands because I can't separate myself from both the frazzled parent and the upset child when it comes to feelings even when I have no idea what's going on or just realize a toddler needs to hear no sometimes
This is such a real thing. People have looked at me in horror when I jave tried to empathise cognitively. I have to be so careful about sharing so often. Gets me into trouble. Keep the content going Quinn we all need it.
As far as I know, I'm not autistic. But I see myself in that story. And as I lately wonder, if I might actually be autistic, this is another reason, why I consider it.
I'll never understand why autistic people are the ones who are expected to adjust to allistic communication styles... Since allistic people are supposedly the ones who have an easier time reading social cues and implicit meaning, why not put that to good use to make the interaction run more smoothly for all parties? It's not that hard to guess at the other person's intentions in that interaction and extrapulate their probable meaning from that. Even if someone has a different cultural background or language barrier or is neurodivergeant or simply has a unique way of expressig themselves. Why assume animosity or black-catting just because someone's empathic response doesn't fit your personal blueprint?! I'm not sure if I am on the spectrum or not, but I can relate to a lot of the stories I've heard from autistic creators on youtube due to my adhd. I also have two colleagues who are autistic and can't/don't really mask. And I often wish that everyone was as easy to talk to and understand as them: What they say is what they mean. No games or guessing. They're probably the only people I know who seem to genuinely put effort into b3ing understood. While most other people I know are much more focussed on not accidentally communicating any more of their true inner thoughts than is absolutely necesssary, or palatable to to others.
sometimes my go to for being the one to comfort, I usually start with: "do you want me to give you advice, be a shoulder you cry on, or to just just listen?" and let them go from there. laying out the field of how we're starting and what i can do to help them does wonders to get on even ground
1:50 such a weird phrase, I assumed it would have been something to do with stereotyping behaviours of a black cat like how people sometimes claim orange cats are dumber. Like maybe something about the mimicking after owners for attention ( not that that’s not an all cats thing but still )
To be fair a lot of our phrases are, but there are definitely better comparisons. Maybe for example "fatter purse" instead of "blacker cat", but that applies more in modern day too, and perhaps more to our culture. The pot calling the kettle black was always an odd one to me, at least the cat thing kinda makes sense lol
I just wanted to say, I really appreciate your pauses between thoughts and sentences. With so many creators over using jump editing to remove every breath and every millisecond of silence, this was actually refreshing.
I need you to know how important seeing this video was to me today. I can still remember clear as day about fifteen years ago, someone I thought of as a good friend once catching me mid conversation and saying “you know, you don’t have to have a response for everything someone else has to say”. I have spent years trying to act differently, trying to catch myself from being ‘insensitive’ or ‘narcissistic’, when deep down I genuinely never thought I was being that. My last few years have been very rough. Although always struggling to fit in from the earliest age, some would say I did relatively well for myself. I worked at quite high positions in large telecom companies but in the end, after about twenty years, I couldn’t cope with the internal politics and conflicting messages and agendas and basically started to shut down. Then covid hit. I live in a foreign country and the very few people I interacted with were gone. I have since not been able to return to work and have been struggling to keep it together. The many hours of doom scrolling and youtube binging die to sleeplessness seem to have pulled the youtube algorithm to recommend autism and adhd channels to me. I stress that I have NOT been professionally diagnosed (I’m 56 years old and living in a foreign country, so there are exactly lines of people offering me the opportunity) but many of the symptoms discussed and life experiences shared have resonated with me so strongly that I genuinely feel I may have found something that until literally a few weeks ago had never even been a consideration. This video and your point in particular were so specifically familiar to me, that regardless of any diagnosis , I wanted to let you know that I can deeply empathise (no, really!) with what you shared, and also, that I want to thank you from the bottom of my heart for taking the time to share it. I haven’t even finished the video but was so compelled to write this that I paused it to do so. If your conclusion ends up totally turning everything on its head and making me come across like an asshole, well f… it, I’ll take that bullet because you’ve confirmed to me the first time in my life that something I do without ego but often an uncontrollable enthusiasm to kind of say “No way! Me too!” is not meant to take away from the other person’s glory or pain, but simply a way that I react in empathy, which is not recognised as such by so many. Again, and I apologise for the rant, thank you so much for sharing. I genuinely wish I had people like you to talk to many years ago and have already subscribed because I’m so interested in what more you have to say.
The issue is that true empathy isn’t something we can achieve by projecting ourselves. Sometimes our experience of the world is so vastly different that we can’t reach each other without getting to know each other.
Thank you for connecting those dots. I had all the pieces already from experience and have felt the frustrations of myself and others as a result. This is also why I've always cherished my fellow autistic friends, because I felt such a deep and genuine connection that I don't get with non-autistic individuals. I'm going to share this with my family and hopefully we can build some bridges of understanding between the two modes of being. Everyone is their own musical note, but trying to be in harmony with others is both a challenge and a reward in its own right.
Makes sense. I often make the mistake of attempting to offer a practical solution to what is presented as a real problem, which is actually and expression of artificial drama.
Hi, Quinn! I wanted to first of all express my deep gratitude and appreciation for you sharing your personal experiences and vulnerability here. As a 30-something queer minority struggling to get the proper diagnosis and information to continue healing trauma as well as gaining knowledge and tools necessary for expressing my intent and self-advocacy....well, this is everything. I did not expect to feel so seen, validated, understood, and heard when I found you just today lol let alone heal trauma i didn't even know was there. It is creators like yourself that are the "spirit guides" for all the misunderstood and misdiagnosed hopeless undiagnosed out here. Ya'll are the lighthouses we so desperately need in the darkest times of our lives. Thank you for providing the terminology and examples I needed to progress in this long and beautiful process of learning self love and "aha moments" I'm now aware I have provided yet another example of Cognitive Empathy and further prove your content is needed to break the social stigma about autists and neurodivergence as a whole. Forever thankful and following! Here we grow, ya'll!!!
I am very grateful for this video. It sets out something I have been thinking about very well. I still don't really understand why people would share a problem they have and then get upset if you offer an actual solution or improvement instead of just waffle and go around in circles. It's only in the last few years I figured out that's what they want at all.
THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR THE EXPLANATION. It helped me understand what I do and how it is completely taken the wrong way. I have learned over the years to just nod and use “small facial expressions” to show empathy. I have very strong mirror neurons and my brain feels like it is about to explode when I do this when all I want to do is talk and share experiences to show how truly deep my empathy goes. I am an older female and have learned this and many other ways of masking. I never knew why I would feel so completely exhausted until I realized I was autistic. This was the happiest light bulb moment of my life. Thanks for sharing all your videos. They have been helpful in so many ways.
I am newly diagnosed AuDHD, (10 mths ago, so still getting to know the ropes and myself as such. Thank you and Mike for helping me, for the first time, to feel 'normal' for the way I show empathy - that is, to share an example of how I have been through a similar situation and can therefore relate to how they feel, and possibly offer an example of how I dealt with it and got through it. It ALWAYS comes from a place of caring, not an intention of making it about me. Although nobody has complained (to me at least), I have wondered myself if that's how I have come across and tried to clarify. I also can't do the there-there thing - it seems trite. I have added "I understand" to my repertoir and may consider adding "how can I help?" if in doubt, because I have learned that people don't always want solutions, just sympathetic pats. Paradoxically, it sometimes irritates me when others have done the same to me! Sometimes I don't want anecdotes, which feel like one-downmanship - a competition of who is more traumatised. Maybe those times were legit black-catting, or I just didn't trust them. Surely it must be case by case, depending on the combo of personalities/neurotypes. ...Hmmmm... Did I just make that all about me? Ooops ;) Thanks again for your informative channel.
It is nice to see a fellow autistic express the same feelings I often have. Somewhat reassuring that it isn't a lack of empathy, just that 'neurotypical' people are too performative often.
I like the explanation of empathy among autistic people. That does seems like me, being hyper responsive to people emotions. I never could block it, while other people seemed unphased. Btw. I watched a ton of your videos, when I finally accepted that I'm autistic. I think you do great work, and watched the interview you're referring in this video - what you're explaining is how I relate to my autistic friends. I never knew I was autistic for about 35 years, and my closest friends has been and still are undiagnosed autistics. Very few, but very valuable relationships.
I’ve only recently realised I’m autistic and that by responding with my story to show that I understand and care about that they are saying, I come off as selfish. Sometimes I get upset about how superficial neurotypicals can be and see me as narcissistic because I didn’t give them the basic, empty response they want AND they lack the ability to at least try and understand that I come from a place of care. It’s like “if you don’t respond with the required cookie cutter answer, you’re an asshole and I refuse to empathise with your intentions” . Why do they always assume the worst in people :/
I never considered the possibility of being autistic, but the more I actually listen to podcasts like this, read Reddit posts etc, I realize many of my ADHD symptoms diagnosed correspond with autism and AuDHD I think it’s called. I relate so heavily but I also can fake my way through social situations by sort of checking the boxes
I do this too and until this moment never thought it to be an autistic trait. I was once pulled up on it being called selfish by a housemate, and when Google started pointing out narcissism in a friend of mine I thought it was saying I was also a narcissist. I've started questioning if I should be tested for asd or ADHD. This is all very new to me
I don't like those cookie-cutter responses, either (and it's like, "How am I supposed to know every cookie-cutter response for every situation? Do I have to memorize them?"). It just feels fake for some reason if I use them, like, if I use a cookie cutter response, that'll start a conversation that I'm not sure if I know how to respond to.
I've come to realise that my empathy and conscience has been exploited by manipulative people I have known in the past. There have been times this has made me look over my shoulder just to make sure I haven't insulted them.
Telling similar stories to someone trying to gain empathy is a way to show they aren't alone through example, it's like saying "i get how you feel" but being even MORE genuine about it by giving an example
I’m not sure if I’m autistic, but the more I learn about autism it shines light on interactions with my siblings, friends, even how my dad communicated with us. It’s a little bit of a “broken homes the whole way down” situation, but there’s still an element of us learning to communicate with each other in a way that’s very different to interacting with friends.
Once again, you have expressed things in a clear, easy to follow way that I have been feeling for a long time, yet not having the ability to express in a way that those who are different would be able to understand. Thank you.
My experience with that is usually somebody first telling me: “hey, I want your advice” only to tell me later “I didn’t want you to instruct me”… Then why did they ask for advice in the first place?
I always knew i did this, but having it explained like this really makes me realise why i hate getting "you'll figure something out" back from someone after telling them a problem. I told you to *help* me figure out!!
This is a video I really needed right now. I always felt like I talk about my own stories and life too much, that I may have narcissistic tendencies Recently that feeling have been out the roof. But now, I know as an Asberger, that it's just the way I process and offer empathy. And why I so love trading stories of our lives back and fourth. Why I feel hard to offer simple platitudes to those in distress, even my own girlfriend (she will be linked this video), and why I would always try to offer solutions to problems than simple aknowledgements.
I'm not officially diagnosed but I'm learning this stuff in my 30s! Thank you for this video. It's so validating to my form of showing empathy which I now know is double empathy.
When I share my similar stories, it is to demonstrate that the other persons experience is familiar to me. I.e. "I know how you feel." But just saying that phrase is meaningless and unempathetic.
The way I see it, saying 'I know how you feel' sounds like a lie, because you're not that person, you don't have their experience, of course you don't really 'know how they feel'. If someone says to me, 'I know how you feel', it makes me feel irritated at best. But telling a story of a similar situation you've experienced, is saying instead 'I've been in a similar situation, and I can empathise with your struggle'. Or delight if it's a positive situation; or pride, or despair, or excitement - any situation you want to demonstrate that you relate to. 'I know how you feel' seems like an inherently dishonest statement to me. Sharing an experience is a much more genuine way of connection with someone else's emotional state. Or not, if you're someone like that commenter, I suppose.
@@zoecameron9166 And the words "I can't imagine how you must feel" are supposed to be somehow better but to me they're just words for the sake of words. Pointless noise.
Love how you put all this together. Understanding all this is so important. I've been listening to videos on narcissism, witch hunts, and targeting. Im ADHD and Autistic, and misunderstood frequently.
Thank you for explaining this further. It’s not only great for the autie community to understand themselves better, but for the NT community to understand us better too and appreciate how we communicate!
This is fascinating to me. Because for years, I’ve been trying to figure out what was different about me. Then my sister was diagnosed as being on the spectrum. And had suggested this to me for years, but I just wasn’t ready for it. I consistently return a likewise story to people when they’re sharing a problem or story with me. And as you pointed out. This isn’t black catting! It’s my way of trying to show them that I have an intimate understanding of what they may be going through. And also to give them perhaps an idea or some resources on how to get through it. It’s a way I try to connect with people. And show them that I am actively not just listening to them, but that I really understand.modern culture is so hyper critical and hyper repressive. I am tired of it. And I would also say that many of these people that basically just regurgitate crap that they’ve learned online through hyper liberal ideals. Don’t actually have any depth or follow through. I’m the kind of person who is there for you after the fact. I’m actually tangible not just regurgitating over sensitive information about trendy topics. I’m coming from an honest place of empathy and life experience. Follow through.
This was so helpful. I didn't know that was an autistic way of showing empathy, I only knew that when I respond like that, people do not take it the way it was intended and now I understand the whole thing much better. Thank you very much!
2:00 AMEN! Say it louder for those in the back! I used to give a story to show that they are not alone! That we are in this together and I understand. I also think this is how conversations happen... it's like sometimes another person will also talk. It's a bit narcissistic to think it can only be about you now that you've said something emotional. I didn't know some people saw sharing your own things to show we understand bothered people until 3 years ago😅 and I'm 36. So... I don't anymore for fear of offending them because they think I'm black catting. (New phrase for me, thanks). I definitely am not trying to one up you; I'm not that person. Trying to help is also my love language. Immediately my brain will try to fix a situation for someone and give advice... and I've never had anyone tell me not to... so also another thing I didn't know some people get annoyed at. Maybe I've just naturally only given advice to people who are open to receiving it? Idk.🤷♂️
Thanks for the comments on the original upload of this video. It was only up for a few minutes before I realised there was a BIG cock-up in the edit that needed urgent correction, but there were some nice comments already. You guys are great😊😊
No worries! UA-cam censors so many of my comments arbitrarily that I often keep them in a Google doc to re-paste 😂
@@tayzonday Hiya. I've had a draft reply to you waiting for me to finish for ages now! My perception of time really has been all over the place since I left the full-time treadmill. Life's been busy, but there's a conversation to continue!
@@tayzonday Most times when I need to handwrite something out on paper, I will compose it as a text message, where the recipient of the text is my phone number. Then, when I'm done composing, I just copy the words off my phone screen onto the paper. I do this same thing many times with UA-cam comments, & then I just copy & paste it from the text message screen to its destination.
@Autistamatic Hi Quin I appreciate this video a lot. My partner of 9years is autistic and I am, we believe, undiagnosed adhd inattentive type. (No point attempting to get a diagnosis in the UK rn sadly as I believe the waiting list to be about 200 years or something ridiculous!). We have a lot of misunderstandings and frustration around empathy- most of which we manage to iron out pretty quickly however ...My query to you is this; the autistic way of sharing a relatable story to show empathy or interest in an issue falls apart when the person has no relatable story to share. My partner just says "I've got nothing to add as I have never experienced this." I find this incredibly frustrating at times. I ask "can't you at least try to imagine a way through this issue?" He says no because he simply has not had any similar experience. How do you handle it when you have no similar story to relay to Express an understanding of someone elses' problem/situation/issue?
@@emmy_bobbington_jr I appreciate both sides of your dilemma. I can only speak from personal experience on this one though. In the first instance, few of my past partners were even willing to accept that my relating similar experience wasn't an exercise in one-upmanship, so I'm primarily talking about who I am NOW. I read and watch a lot of fiction AND take a great interest in "people" as a whole. When I encounter something in life that I can't personally relate to, I can often draw on a learned analogue - i.e. a story I've heard from a friend or in fiction. It's not as "meaty" as a personal analogue, but it serves as a starting point. Both Mrs A and I often refer to things we've watched together on TV to convey meaning when there's nothing in my personal experience to draw parallels with.
I always gravitate towards sharing a similar story because it feels like the best way to demonstrate that I empathise with their pain, or struggle, and I'm not looking at their position as if it were more of an abstract. I appreciated it when others did the same to me as it was a way of truly showing that they could understand and weren't just trying to give words which could be empty, superficial, and essentially a mindless Pavlovian response. There's a massive difference between "I experienced X, and it was horrible; give me attention instead" and "I experienced X, and I understand. I am here; you are not alone. You too will get through this."
100%
Are there times when people don't want to hear the story?
I find neurotypicals to be empty and superficial.
@@gothboschincarnate3931 Yeah, a lot of people can get confused as to why you are relating your own story. It's a difference in perspective and perception; I try to tailor what I do depending on the person, so I've learned to usually hold back relating my own story as a means of establishing that I understand their feelings, and that they aren't alone. Unless they are more like me, of course. I dunno; I find neurotypicals to be very variable, and sometimes we need to consider that a focus on superficial elements in certain contexts can stem from social pressures and expectations, and belie a more complex, but perhaps insecure, person underneath.
@@stevenwarner9156 they are superficial.
As an autistic person, I've learned to ask people "would advice or suggestions be helpful, or do you moreso need me to listen while you get it off your chest?". It has helped a lot and even the neurotypical people I interact with have started using the phrase. I try to model it as much as I can since it benefits all parties in a conversation!
Love this! I think this is a useful question even to ask oneself. I know for myself it really depends on where I'm at in the process. If something JUST happened and I need to talk it out - just hearing "Shit dude. That sucks!" (Or an equivalent empathic story) can be super helpful. But other times I'm at a point where I am looking for solutions or for a broader perspective. I can't say that I'm always looking for one approach across the board. So - this question is a great tool for distinguishing that.
That doesn't work well for me because NT people have problems telling you the truth when you ask them a question like this. I think it puts pressure on them and they choose advice/suggestion when really they just want to be heard.
@@chrismaxwell1624 they always have problems with truth, in all circumstances. They seem to consider it indecent.
It seemed to me he wasn’t really talking about how an autistic man would respond, but more about how men often respond to women in general. When a woman just wants a man to listen and understand, he usually tries to fix the problem instead of just hearing her out. Women aren’t like machines that need fixing-we just want someone to listen. Or precisely to hear what he made fun of: "Oh, it must be so hard for you" and such. To me, it’s just the usual mix-up between how men and women think, whether they are autistic or not.
How interesting…I‘ve learned to do the same 😊
A few years ago. I had the owner of the shop next to mine ask me why I always had to talk about myself or someone I know when someone is explaining something that was going on in thier life. I told him it was to let people know that I can relate to them, and I understand what they are going through. He stared at me for a moment then scoffed and said, it sounds like you're just trying to become the center of the conversation and that's it's extremely rude and inconsiderate, it makes me sound like I dont really care about their situation. I tried to explain to him that I was just trying to show that I relate with what they were going through. He then said I needed to stop doing that because it makes people not like me. That really affected me, and that conversation changed how I interact with others because of what he said. I honestly thought there was something wrong with me. I cannot express the amount of gratitude I have for you posting this video. I'm normally not one to cry but this made me tear up. There's nothing wrong with me, thank you for letting me know
the blank stare as they try to understand a different way of thinking... I've seen that and hoped maybe they would gain understanding. Sometimes they DO, if they take a moment to realize there are other ways of being. Sadly, most in my life have not taken time to try to understand. I hope to try to understand them more, because I have been angry about their seeming lack of willingness to TRY to see that difference is ok, good even. Many are not open to that tho. Its ok...but I dont want non-empathy people in my life, too draining. And the un-called-for judgement is rough.
So by showing you relate to them, you at the same time show you don't relate to them. Life is hard.
Oh, I feel this.
They query, you explain, they scoff and call you a liar.
That guy was just a jerk.
how do you interact with people now? it was very kind of him to point out what he thinks, but at the same time he told you what not to do, without telling you what to do. so now you are probably avoiding the behaviour of your intuition but there is nothing you can hang on to and you are orientation less in social interactions.
what helped me a lot for avoiding sharing my own stories was finding interest in every detail about what someone else tells me. for example when they say "i was in a dance class" instead of answering "ah interesting i was in a dance class last year" i answer "did you like it?, what is your favourite dance, how were the people there, did you feel the music, would you dance that at a party when nobody else is dancing?" just show interest for every detail and try to get the other person to make you understand how they feel
It took me a long time to realize that sometimes when other people tell their stories after mine that they really were just trying to outdo me for sympathy or attention. It never occurred to me and seemed completely ridiculous. Why would anyone want to outdo me in bad experiences?? Who would want to have had a worse life like it's a badge of honor??
It wasn't until recently that I learned about social hierarchies and the lengths some people will go to to feel special...and why they think that's what I was doing.
They are projecting their own ego entitlement and therefore expect us to be doing/thinking the same as they would. It’s a sorry state of affairs because we also project our intentions onto others, but the difference is that our intentions are not based in selfishness and self-aggrandisement in these sort of situations. So we get told we are bad when we’re not and they end up none the wiser. What we mistakenly project is our care and kindness onto others that just don’t really have those qualities within them.
narcissists have to outdo everyone. many autistics are abused by narcissistic people even if they are not officially diagnosed. You are right, it is hard to understand meanness. But people out there are all about SELF. great comment!
Even then, I don't understand how people confuse the two.
I used to be friends with a girl like this and, while I was terrible at reading tone and body language at the time, it quickly became obvious that she was trying to steal the spotlight. If the spotlight failed to shift over to her, she would continually interrupt the speaker, raising the intensity and stakes of her personal anecdote, sometimes even going as far as fake crying (I only feel confident saying it was fake because she was VERY bad at it).
If a friend had a worse life than her in ways she couldn't outdo (self harm scars, bruises from domestic violence, hospital visits, etc.) she would punish that friend for "making everything about themselves," She once even went as far as telling a kid fresh out of the psychiatric ward that he made her want to off herself because he was such a horrible, selfish person.
I don't understand how me saying "i went through this similar experience, which isn't exactly the same as what you're going through, but i found that doing this helped me a lot" can in any way be confused with that other sort of behavior.
@@LilChuunosuke Personally, what I've noticed is that people who confuse relating through a similar story with boasting and trying to steal the spotlight usually end up being that way themselves. They don't actually comprehend what the other person is telling them, they just hear contradiction (for some reason) and take it poorly. They're waiting for "there there" and anything that isn't that is wrong and bad. I stay away from those people because they barely even know other people exist. The minute you demonstrate you're a separate person from them...they dislike you.
@@LilChuunosuke I guess some people have low to no empathy, just like maybe I don't have a capacity to understand something like computers... just no capacity in me to "get it". Sadly, lack of empathy is real and the dark triad personalities operate in this...and they lots of times get away with no empathy because others with no to low empathy really just have no capacity to understand kindness and loving others is better than being self centered. But the world, like politics and business supports narcissists, etc., they get ahead because they dont think the rules of respecting others is for them...and they get away with it because people are afraid of bullies and mean girls. For me, I dont believe anything they say, because they only love their self. So how can they know truth anyhow? It is befuddling but so thankful for channels like this that help validate everyone's experience. It is hard to try to walk in NT shoes, but this video helped me see how they see a little bit. Makes me forgive them because they seem to enjoy not caring for others or about their effects on people.
So thankful to know I have a TRIBE out there who understands these things... know that people do not determine our value...
2:15 i honestly always thought that sharing a similar anecdotal tale to the one you were just told was a way of relating to the person you’re speaking to.
Same.
Exactly ! 😅
Me too. Sharing stories back and forth is a good way to get to know people.
And it in fact IS! I do that too! It's a great way to not only say "I relate to you" but actually proving it, and in your very own and unique way and in further detail.
When I was a child my mother told me me grandfather had Asperger's. When I asked what that meant she explained that he didn't have the capacity for empathy. It confused me because I never felt that way knowing him, he was a bit odd and forgetful and distant but not cold. I actually took a liking to the man and somehow could relate to him without ever really speaking a word to eachother. We enjoyed sitting in silence together away from the guests, there was a kind of serenity in our unspoken understanding of eachother. Years later I found out I had autism too.
The longer you can sit in silence with someone, the better you get along. 🤣
My brain works in categories so when I respond to someone by spouting a similar experience or situation I've had, it's because my brain is just trying to categorize the information they just gave me. It's not because I'm thinking of myself. Or because I want to compete with them. It's just my brain taking information and putting it in a category.
I'm planning a direct follow-up to this video sometime soon, and that will be expanded upon👍
I enjoy this song by an autistic about categories ua-cam.com/video/4xMJVMLWmn0/v-deo.htmlsi=oorp0D1sriJXhPwQ@@Autistamatic
In a similar way, I see it as part of my pattern matching. One of the things I’m asking by sharing a story of my own is, “am I understanding your situation and feelings correctly?” If I’m correct, I hope that you will understand those shared feelings. If I’m not correct, it gives an opportunity for you to correct me, so I can try again and hopefully match better.
This is one place where I almost never lower the mask, though. Being 52 when diagnosed means I’ve hidden my natural tendencies for decades. I still do the pattern matching, but it’s rare that I will say it out loud because that’s not what you are supposed to do. Conversely, it means that I had literally never had anybody express empathy in a way that felt natural until I started seeing my late-diagnosed therapist a couple months ago, and the difference is profound.
Oh me too! I don’t have the words to express myself but what you just said is so like me.
I say that because I want to show them whether I had something similar so they know I relate to the experience.
It's NOT because I am in a hidden and hideous competition to see who had it better, geez.
As an autistic therapist, I’ve always asked myself if my stories are me projecting or if I am countertransferrung unto others. I always ask my clients if said story matched their experience, and it’s astounding how many enjoy it.
DBT refers to this as a form of validation. Clearly it helps
@@Iceblade269 my favorite therapists have been ones who empathized with stories of their own. I knew they were human, and understood.
YES THIS IS A GENUINE FEAR OF MINE WHEN I BECOME A THERAPIST! Thank you for sharing that it's positively received by some people!!
Likewise, as a therapist this relational way of self-disclosing can lower the power differential and reflects a more Buddhist-informed approach. It’s an example of folx not pointing from a boat at someone in the water when they’re swimming in despair. Which has therapist “neutral or detached” in a supposed “objective” state, but jumping into join in the emotional water with them. Yes the content/surface of our lives are always unique, but it’s the emotional undercurrent that connects our island of life experiences. ❤🌊
I am a therapist of over 20 years and have been using DBT about as long with clients. Today my psychologist confirmed my long term suspicion that I have autism. Just stumbled upon this video and started to panic hearing about the whole “storytelling as communication.” Started to think “Oh my gosh I do that way too much with my clients.” Before the video I knew I did it and just saw it as my method of normalizing, connecting on commonality, and sharing acquired wisdom. So glad to hear this positive feedback.
Have you ever listened to Sam Vaknin about ASD?
I have 3 friends through my entire life. One is neurotypical and somehow managed to drag me through school. The other two I met years later online and we just happened to live only about two hours apart. I can’t explain how it happened, but the three of us just clicked. One big reason was, that all three of us do this story-telling-to-relate-thing. It was the first time I met other people who did that and are to this day the only people I act completely like myself around. They ACTUALLY understand me, instead of just saying they do and in the next sentence question everything I do. When I needed support, they gave it in a way that actually made me feel better and not like I was being given white lies and empty promises.
I later learned they are both ADHDers. It was one of those friends who implied (rather directly) that I might be autistic. It’s how my journey started. Getting a diagnosis is a pain, but I have time. I have “found my crowd” so to speak and I don’t really care that much about the official paper anymore. Accommodations are practically nonexistent. And if I am not autistic after all, I will still feel more at home with the neurodivergent people in my life than anyone else. It is such a relief not to have to act around them all the time, how they communicate the same way I do! It is so much easier!
Thank you for an other wonderful video! ❤
It is pretty amazing to have that immediate clicking experience. I had a similar experience with the first friend I made in secondary school (after being friendless for some time), who I immediately clicked with and had many long conversations with. And as an adult they were diagnosed as ADHD - it makes sense in hindsight.
I pretty much always had one friend who kinda kidnapped me and I then stuck to them until they did not like me anymore and now I have 3 friends who are all ND and it explains so well, why i finaly actually feel confortable and safe with someone
Until I got called out about it, I had felt that sharing a narrative about myself was a way of giving emotional support by telling the other person "you're not alone"... The exact opposite of ego and selfishness.
Very well explained. I never realized that is what I was doing and how it is perceived by "normies". Also never cared about it, I've known people call me arrogant for knowing lots of trivia. I can't help having a decently good memory for trivia, and I'm not boasting that I know stuff. I just want to share the information, because it can be helpful or fun to know.
Wtf does trivia have to do with empathy? Also, you're definitely just boasting and trying to one up people, based on how arrogant this comment sounds.
@@NaryanBergstrom You seem devoid of empathy. Also, you definitely think that neurotypical standards are the only acceptable and morally correct ways to communicate and exist, and see autism as a moral failing, based on how malicious your comment is. Please never speak to an autistic person ever again, or anyone else for that matter; your attitude is completely unnecessary and unwanted.
Yea, the intentions neurotypicals assign to our actions are baffling. I don’t get why people insist that sharing fun trivia is a display of superiority meant to make others feel inferior, I just like knowing cool things and think you would also like to know cool things too.
@@aceofspades8474 I'm constantly sharing fun facts with people and have never once been called arrogant for it. If that's happening to you, then there's a good chance you aren't doing it in a "hey, I bet you'd find this interesting" way, but more of a "heh, I bet you didn't know this" kind of way.
Yeah :/
I do get overexcited sometimes though and come off as know it all-y
When telling someone about something bad that has happend to me and they just sit there saying nothing. what they apparently call "listening" just make me feeled ignored.
they might not have the tools to give us what we need... maybe they just dont know HOW to show kind empathy? I'm learning too, it is difficult to make sense of but dont give up, there are empathy-filled people out there, well right here in groups like this :)
I hear you. I can imagine that must feel quite uncomfortable, right?
That's active listening. Not adding totally new information yourself, but showing the other person you listened and think about what they said.
@@unything2696active listening doesn't have to be done in total silence. you don't have to bring in new information or go on any sorta tangent to give a simple acknowledgement of what was said, that does way better to make sure the speaker knows they've been heard.
I don't think that's a specifically autistic thing. This form of "listening" just is objectively less useful than listening and then processing that information to try and come up with a solution. If someone doesn't want that, they're being silly.
@kiraoshiro9251 It also depends on the issues at hand, though. There can come a point where the thing you are bringing up is so intense that they can't really respond.
I am Autistic and sometimes what I really need is validation and support, not a plan going forward or "Rubik's cube solution," as I call it. My husband naturally responds in the typical Autistic way you have described in this video. I've learnt over the years, just to say outright, "What I am looking for right now is validation and support." Supportive responses are what help me shift out of my stuck emotions. It's only then that solutions are helpful to me.
I came looking for information to understand my son, I’m not autistic, and I think the problem is exactly as you describe. It’s not about being autistic or not-men always try to fix everything, while what we want is validation.
I think that's just being an emotional rather than logical person typa thing generally speaking. like gotta work through the emotions first before problem solving becomes enough of a priority. people can be autistic and not necessarily all that massively logic focused.
I think even non-autistic male-female couples have this same issue as men have a natural affinity to solve puzzles (even when it’s not a puzzle…it’s their way to support/protect you). I find it’s always best to communicate as plainly as possible. I love when my wife plainly says “tell me I’m not a bad person for doing x”. And then I can do that, and provide lots of details to support that thought, allowing her to accept or reject different points (without “solving” it for her, which I know can be annoying).
This comment makes me hopeful, I'm studying psychology with the intent of becoming a therapist and I'm often worried if it's a good idea with my asperger's
Yes, it is a question of neurodiversity not gender. I am a woman, and for me being understood is more important than being 'validated' in the neurotypical way. I feel validated when I feel understood. That is why I also try to understand the situation of another person first. It is not about 'fixing', it is my way to say: I see you, I see your situation, you are not crazy @@lortigosa
This is what i do. Tell my stories in support of the person.
As do I, though recently, I try to withhold my comments and have found it’s appreciated when I do.
This is the only true way to show empathy. The problem is, allistic people don't have a clue what empathy is. They also have no desire to learn. They want platitudes, and 0 solutions. This ensures they can double, triple, quadruple the attention they get from "problems" they have no intention on fixing. This is why they don't fix their societal systems either. If everything worked correctly they wouldn't get the attention a broken system brings to them. So it's just feedback loops of endless suffering for everyone, but hey the get lot's of attention for pretending to fix it. It's the old cause a dumpster fire, then act like a hero for putting it out trick. They employ this technique from the top, all the way down to their individual systems. Employing this technique on any level is worthy of only ridicule.
Your doing it right 😉
@@benphillips4081
This 💯
I do toe :)
@@benphillips4081Can you show on the doll where allistic people touched you? Like seriously who hurt you to the point that you're trying to dismiss every other way of showing empathy just because you don't feel that they are right. Each kind has a place and time, but to ridicule a way that a person is trying to show it is basically going back to the double empathy problem discussed in the video. You're not doing anything but practicing it instead of trying to get rid of it. "Eye for an eye and the whole world goes blind", as they say. Hope that you take another look at yourself after this.
Oh my gosh. I had no idea that’s not what people wanted . I can only really relate to others through my own stories. I thought I was helping them . I never understood why some people didn’t care about me. Why they didn’t share their stories with me.
Every day I learn a little something new about myself. I just started my journey of educating myself on being autistic.
I’m self diagnosed.
I am a 56 years old woman with no health care , there’s no way for me to even get an official diagnosis, even if I wanted one.
But wow , I’m so glad I found your channel, among a few others , it’s been sooo helpful.
Thank you
I self diagnosed myself with Aspergers Syndrome decades ago when I saw a documentary about it.
I later had someone I work with, who has Autistic children, that he thinks I have AS too.
I've never been diagnosed, but... I totally do this story thing, and it always shocked me when some people get really pissed off when I shared my own stories, of myself in a similar situation.
I mean... how am I supposed understand pain if I've never experienced it? So to demonstrate I understand their pain, I tell them a situation I've been in where I've experienced it.
Makes perfect sense to me!
The thing is people always react specifically to the situation at hand, we're more so programmed to respond.
They all have the story that it's not okay to get too close to people or you'll get hurt. The world is a bad place. Don't trust people, ect. We're all afraid to love and people basically have reality programmed at a further distance than us that they can organically pull from within the confines of their minds programming.
I like to think that maybe we would be even more organic if the world wasn't so afraid. Idk it's just my observation
For me it's a form of relating and showing them they're not alone.
this is the first time i have ever thought of it being taken as any other way. well shit.
friends of mine have called me narcissistic because i do this trying to connect more, it's really heartbreaking seeing that i'm not alone in that people wildly misinterpret our methods to empathize and how we function
I've always wanted to communicate with people with stories. And all I heard back "you are only talking about yourself". I mean, it is factual that when I communicate I talk a lot about myself. But I had to learn that I am autistic that relate to people when I compare my experience to their experience. If I am forbidden to do so (and I feel like that a lot among people) I cannot connect with people. So I keep feeling alienated. I can only connect with people who let me compare their experience to my experience. I used to think I am unable of altruism cause people only expected from me the kind of help that is extremely hard for me to do. At the same time when it comes to helping people with having a chat I can forget to eat, sleep, etc... I want to do that so much. It seems I do not lack altruism. I lack performative altruism. To be fair, I lack performative everything. I cannot do just to look good. I do things because I believe in the thing and feel it's important. I used to get angry when I heard about altruism but I think what made me angry is that I mostly seen performative altruism and it felt fake.
Also, I am unable to compare human experiences as better or worse. There are far too many variable and too many scales. You can only give value to things and compare those values when they exist on the exactly same scale. In any other situation the value is subjective and it depends.
To my ears, you sound completely relatable and "normal". One cannot apply an objective value to a subjective experience such as emotion, and it's frustrating to watch people try & be judged for failing ourselves.
@@Autistamatic imagine my shock each time someone told me "you are acting like you are better/smarter than me" or "why are you trying to one-up me". And there I am not even being able to fathom such concepts so talk about acting like that.
And now when I look at all those concepts of empathy I am starting to realize why I did not feel people having empathy for me when I was dealing with difficult things (maybe except for therapists). And I also understand now why people got angry with me when I was trying to give them my ideas on possible solutions to their problems.
@@lilijagamingI relate strongly to what you said there.
The way people do that (don't share or want to hear about experiences or make it all about value judgments) it makes me think they must be incredibly lonely even when surrounded by friends and loved ones, because they know nothing of anyone else's experience or how it really relates to their own. In your own lifetime of experiences, you can only get a teeny tiny slice of the human experience. You can get many times more, through that genuine connection with others who have experiences you have not had and never will have.
@@LiftPizzas Sadly I can't "pin" replies to comments, but that's superbly well put.
When someone replies with a related story of their own, we have a better understanding of our relative points of view & knowledge on the subject.
I spent a lot of time in Aviation, both as a Mechanic, & Skydiver. I love the way things are debriefed in Aviation.
When people offer Platitudes & Sycophancy it feels like obstruction, as though the other person is intentionally misunderstanding & are actively pacifying a known problem.
I hate it when I am accused of not caring.
Well said Quinn, what you have described is the kind of empathy that I understand and find helpful. People patting my shoulder and saying that "everything will be ok" is likely to upset me more because at that point I don't see that it will be and just saying it won't make it better.
It's a shame that we have to make videos like this to get the point across. If "empathy" was what people THINK it is, then it wouldn't be necessary.
@Autistamatic we need an epidemic of videos and short clips spread real emphaty. Creating community must haves, to raise funds for our fellow neighbors.
Communities can begin ❤
@@Autistamatic I recommend adopting Caroline Bollen's concept of empathy in "Towards a Clear and Fair Conceptualization of Empathy"
Excellent observation. Relating our own story is our way of showing we understand what the other person is feeling. They say autistic people can't "put themselves in someone else's shoes" (i.e. relate to others' lives), but we obviously can, to be able to recount a similar story.
Saying all that, since I realised I've spent my life doing it, I now restrict (aka mask) my responses a lot more so it doesn't look like I'm making it about me, even though it never was meant that way.
Oh my god, thank you for this video. I have had a number of comments over my adult life that when someone is speaking to me, that I'm not to engage back or tell a story of my own. I always thought that this was naturally a part of conversation, to connect, to show empathy. I never understood what exactly the problem was until I watched this and now it all makes sense... WOW! I didn't understand why people didn't respond to me well in some conversations and what was expected of me. It's taken 48years to finally find this out, what an eye opener! Thanks again
I have heard of the concept of people “telling on themselves”; indicating their true thoughts and feelings by what they assume is causing behavior in others. We tend to assume others more or less think and feel as we do; the alternative is terribly cumbersome and awkward to deal with, and not really necessary when the two people do have similar ways of thinking and feeling. The problem arises when two people have drastically different ways of thinking and feeling, autistics vs allistics just being one example. I told the psychologist who diagnosed me that it was very hard to answer the questionnaires at times, because I had to try to take on the viewpoint of an allistic looking at me from outside and making assumptions about my inner world based on my behavior and what within THEM would produce that behavior. He agreed that this would be particularly difficult for an autistic person by definition. Seemed like a nice guy, that fellow. 🙂
I think you are right with this telling on ourselves.
And this is not strictly an NT vs ND thing. You can also see it when one partner cheats on their spouse then starts accusing the spouse of cheating.
It isn't because the spouse is cheating. It's because they themselves are cheating and they are picking up on their spouse behaviours that they do when they are hiding rhe cheating and so project that intent onto their spouse actions. No their spouse just happened to place their phone screen side down for no reason, they didn't do it to hit any thing like the cheater does.
@@ksara2883 Exactly!
Yes! (I found myself repeating, "YES" throughout the video.) This is something I've always struggled with, but have never been able to articulate as thoroughly and accurately as you have here. I always got the sense that when I replied to someone's story with one of my own, that it either wasn't helping, they were disinterested, or they were flat-out irritated.
Over the years, and with therapy teaching me to do so, I developed a mask where I just sat there like a robot and offered an "awww" every few minutes, reflective phrases, and basically just agreeing and validating. It was shocking to me that *this* is what went over best with almost everyone. I would feel so awkward, like, what am I even offering here? Can't they tell I am just throwing in a token word here or there?
But I could tell that it was probably what they wanted because if I tried to share something I had learned, or connect on an experience that I hoped communicated that I could understand their experience, everything would fall apart--or the person might clam up. But if I just shut up and nodded my head and said, "aww" as much as possible, people would sometimes profusely thank me for the conversation--which was *so* confusing because I didn't actually offer anything!
I find information and problem-solving to be extremely comforting. In turn, my way of comforting is to understand the problem and provide information that might help. I want to go out of my way and do things like do research, help with tasks, do anything and everything I could think of that might take a load off and add assistance or at least understanding.
I wondered why when I would let someone know what was going on for me (such as a comment in passing, or conveying information because it affects a schedule or some other thing), the person would sometimes respond with something like, "OMG that sounds awful! I am so sorry!" The overreaction always confused me because I wasn't seeking sympathy. I would stop and clarify that it's okay, it's really not something I am upset about, I just wanted to let you know because (insert reason here). But I always feel silly in these situations because I do not intend to come across as seeking sympathy.
I was not diagnosed with ASD until after I had been married for some time, so my partner and I had a lot of conflict in the early years, as neither one of us was aware of our communication differences. Since it was unnatural to me and not something I'd been taught, I learned in couples therapy that it's expected that I do not simply respond to an emotionally charged statement, but that I need to first stop and validate my partner's feelings before I say anything further.
I still struggle with that because it's not something I am looking for myself, so it's easy to forget that step before the conversation can proceed. When someone tries to validate my feelings, it feels manufactured and weird. I'd rather they just respond naturally--whether it be with perspective, problem-solving, opinion, information (about themselves or anything else), etc. But I learned that my partner often felt alone and invalidated in our communication. I learned that it is best to respond with, "I understand why you would feel that way and how difficult that is," and then listen for more and offer more validation (without responding) along the way.
I find that difficult, as it feels so artificial, and I still don't do well at it. I don't want to come across as uncaring, as I would genuinely give the shirt off my back if it would help a person somehow. I will go out of my way to help if it's something I can help with. But just shutting up and offering statements like, "I understand your feelings and they are completely valid" is, honestly, ridiculous and unnecessary to me.
In my mind, of course feelings are valid--all of ours are. I may agree or disagree, but that doesn't mean that it isn't valid or understandable. I always thought that was a given, but I learned that it's not, and that I need to stop and communicate it specifically, and that most of the time, my job is simply to listen and validate, not to offer solutions. Which still contrasts sharply with what I would want for myself.
Anyhow, I have rambled on for too long! I'm just so happy that I saw this video today, as you beautifully described the turmoil and discomfort I have felt when communicating with others. :)
Thank you for this long explanation. I'm nt and trying to get behind the differences in communication (and the misunderstandings) between nt and nd people. Your comment helped me a lot. Like your husband I don't feel comfortable when people relate by sharing their story. I now better understand why they do this and the intention behind it. And I also understand better why I'm not comfortable with this way of communication. Not yet, but I'm willing to learn. So, thank you again.
@fraum3725 Thank you for the feedback! It really is difficult on both sides at times. I totally get feeling uncomfortable when something isn't our natural way of thinking and communicating. And I'm glad that the video and comments helped!
thank you for sharing this... it is good to learn to love them how they need love, but love goes both ways. I guess we each feel loved in different ways. Its a successful couple, imho, who loves each other enough to learn how to love the other person they WAY they feel loved. It goes for both people in the relationship. We can give them what they need, but if they really care for us, they will take the time to also love us how we need. Great share, TY, inspiring to me!
@@fraum3725 TY for sharing and God bless you in your desire to learn! We all need to learn how others need to be heard and loved. It does go both ways. Those who try will have more loving relationships I think :)
Can I ask you why not?
So glad you did this video.
Maybe this is why therapy seems so ineffective.
The therapist is required to not tell personal stories back and often when they do they are so far off target that I felt doubly unheard.
Also my experience is they give generic advice as if they had not heard.
I am sharing with my OT as she had not heard of double empathy. And I was hoping this will be part of my final session.
Ooh very good points! Therapy has never helped me fit this very reason. It’s felt like such an exhausting waste of time and sometimes left me more traumatised than I was to start with.
Yes, I think this is potentially a big problem for autists using some therapy services.
@@Autistic_AF Absolutely Depends on the therapist. It was actually the last psychologist that said “have you heard of neurodivergence?” I said my nephew is autistic…. Pause then I realized this was my appointment and the rest was 🤦♀️.
So only 2 of 64 years of knowing why I am so different and after 13 years of various therapies this was life changing and healing.
This was exactly my problem with talk therapy many years ago. I went there but since they're not supposed to actually respond with their own opinions I just started to feel so lost and confused, because there was just no sense of direction. I went there, vented and went back home. The goal and purpose was unclear. I needed to hear what something could mean so I could figure out what I could do or think differently. If someone says, "this is what I think" it's helpful because it creates a different reference point I can further develop based on my own understanding of things.
@@Kamishi845 Totally agree and share the same experience.
I relate to the world through compairing experiences. Often times I will actively seek out someone elses story about a similar experience they have had in order to understand myself. It assists me in problem solving, because the experiences of another provide me with guidance. My intention when sharing a story is to provide helpful information to another.
I have never really found platitudes useful. If anything, they come off as fake, or a way to push away the feelings of another, or myself. To me, receiving logic based solutions or possibilities I can attempt to use to resolve a problem is the deepest form of care. It shows the other person considered my issue beyond the surface level. This is why I try to do the same for others- to treat them how I wish to be treated. To abide by what I feel is respectful and just.
It is an alien concept to me to think that this could be misinterpreted as an attempt at competition. I don't have a single competative bone in my body.
I still remember the first time I was on the receiving end of this form of care from a fellow autist. I didn't know I was an autist at the time, but I was very emotional about the fact that coffee had been spilled on my mother's laptop by a family member, and esentially destroyed it. I was upset because I had just received a new laptop for Christmas, and I felt horrible that my mother now didn't have her laptop, while I had mine.
When I told my autist friend, their immediate response was to ask for the laptop model number and instruct me on how to draw the moisture out of the device. While I went out to get a bag of rice to absorb moisture, they had been busily looking up the laptops manual, along with tutorials on how to take the computer apart.
She then helped me find a replacement keyboard and walked me through what I'd have to do to fix the laptop. With her instruction over instant messenger, I succeded in dismantling, cleaning, and installing a new keyboard on the laptop. It ran well for 3 more years after, until the GPU died and we got mum a new laptop.
By acknowledging my distress and helping me regulate my emotions through a solution based approach, she single handedly resolved the helplessness I felt. It was so different from what anyone else had ever done for me, but it was exactly what I needed at the time. I still remember that moment because it was such a stark contrast to other times I'd been distressed in my life. I felt she really cared, and she did.
I believe autistic love language is expressed through attempting to help you resolve what distresses you because we are so often missing those resolutions in our own lives. So we try to give that to each other through stories and solutions.
Sharing a similar story is the only way I know how to say, or I guess more accurately demonstrate, 'I get you, you're not alone, we share this kind of experience.' I turn off a lot of people on a regular basis, and I have learned to shrug that off. To think my way of empathizing, could be one of the key causes... bring tears to my eyes. I think you are bang on pointing out how our gifts, are reinterpreted as autistic weaknesses, and not societal lacking. For those of us with that strong sense of justice, it's a lifetime of confusion, gritted teeth, and just being plain dumbfounded over how shallow typical people can be, prefer to be?
When I attended 12-step meetings years ago, I learned not to reply directly to a person's testimony, thereby stealing their thunder or offering them solutions. It could result in your interpreting their experience in a way that was not accurate, while taking the attention away from them. But, when it was your turn, you could relay an experience related to theirs. That could provide a broader perspective on the issue. And it could help the sufferer understand they are not alone, others have suffered that way too. Thereby helping them gently turn away from the solipsism people in emotional pain often feel. So offering your own story back is therpeutic.
This is interesting. That maybe this double empathy is practiced in these programs. I will think about this for awhile.
I have grown up around a 12-step program. matter of a fact, someone in an old timers said I was the oldest timer there, given that I was at my first meetings when I was about 1 years of age. However, I go to a different 12 step program than my parents. My mother has 49 years this past July.
@@StormbriseSorry, I just wanted to check to see what your understanding of double empathy is, because of the way that you have used it here?
1:48 I been accused of trying to one-up someone, to take over the conversation, and NO! That's not my intent at all! Solidarity is a big feeling, and I naturally share a story I know of, for how dare I speak for anyone else! I share my side related to your side as an act of genuine empathy. Bragging is more of a neurotypical thing, not my thing.
There's a couple of disconnects that cause this. Bragging is about climbing their social hierarchy, which we either don't realize it exists or don't care about it. But they find that inconceivable because it's one of the most important things to them. Extremes are interesting, for us they don't have to be my extreme or your extreme to be more or less interesting, for them it's important whose extreme is more extremerer.
Also whenever two things are different they seem to automatically apply value judgments to those things, one is "better" than the other in their minds, and since your mind cannot possibly work differently to theirs, you obviously must be trying to one-up them.
@@LiftPizzas You make a lot of sense of what never made sense to me. I heard about Social Currency only within the past few years, and I have ZERO interest in social currency. NOt my fault if they assign values that I dont have... but I end up 'paying' for it, being punished so much for something they made up in their minds. *shrug*
@@Green_Roc I must have been at least in my 20s or 30s before I realized that people see themselves as part of a hierarchy. Though it does make a lot more sense of their actions (like gossip, jewelry and other status symbols, and other social climbing nonsense) when you realize they value it so much. (It used to be valuable in a primitive society, but nowadays it's just vestigial behavior and they keep doing it and not even knowing why.)
I refused to use titles (mr, mrs, aunt, uncle) as a kid when addressing adults because it made no sense. (I got around it by NEVER addressing an adult by any name at all, just start talking at them without addressing them first. LOL.)
@@LiftPizzas I can relate! I was rejected from a few communities because I did not "respect" their role, when the person never proved on her own to be someone I could look up to.
A title doesn't declare my trust/respect of a person. Their reactions towards me will decide if I value their authority, or not.
Finally, this is the video I’ve been asking so many UA-camrs for and never been able to get, but you finally do it
This is awesome! One autistic puts out a video about double empathy, and the comments section is filled with examples of us telling our stories to show we get it. Thank you for putting this out. This is also the first time hearing the term situational mutism, which is something I experience often when I get over stimulated. It's nice to know it's not just a "me" thing and that there's a name for it.
Its amazing watching these videos and learning new things that are common experiences. To me it just seems if someone tells me a story, what they want from me is a related story I have, If I have one. I'll have nothing to say if I don't have an anecdote from my life.
It's reciprocal understanding - mirroring in it's most obvious form - but so often misunderstood🤔
Right? Like, that feeling of, OMG, that is so relatable, as in, the time I… leading to a back and forth of stories that can go on hours, vs. OMG, I can’t even imagine what you are going through. It’s the difference between I like you because we can relate, and looks like we have nothing in common.
@@ladyogilvyI really don’t like it when people say the empty niceties and then want to change the subject. It really makes me wish I’d never asked for their opinion or told them something.
@@tracik1277 this is exactly how I feel. I've been told that I'm pedantic because of this tendency to relate stories from my life when people tell me about theirs. I didn't realize that this is an autistic trait.
Great video. I share my experiences all the time because if I know someone went through something I went through then I can truly understand. Just showing that I understand and can relate based on actual experience. True empathy, not sympathy.
Telling my story that is similar to another person's story has always been my way to relate and to let them know, you're not alone, me too, we're feeling the same thing. Kind of like a verbal hug. When you're in that moment and you're just sharing the space and moment.
Hello!
I'm autistic and about the "issue" brought up at the beginning:
I usually say to others: "I don't mean to come across as boastful or suchlike, just sharing my own personal experience so you can understand I understand what you're going through."
Or I sya something similar. Thusfar this has worked, and even gotten positive responses: "That makes sense!"
Or: "I didn't take it as anything negative, thanks for sharing."
It would baffle me if someone would say it's black-catting.
In a way they kind of are.
"I understand social cues better than you, how dare you communicate this way."
Well, that is, I hope I'm using the phrase correctly here 😅
When this kind of sharing happens in my life, I call it 'resonating stories' and sometimes it works brilliantly and brings two people closer surprisingly quickly... but very often I need to find that mental space to contain the story that's almost jumping out of me, because this is NOT what the other person wants or needs. It's very natural for me to try to connect this way AND also offer some practical solutions, which other people may see as unsolicited advice (and worse). What they can't see is I'm not doing it from some intellectual high ground or to get all the attention, or to make myself feel more important/better/smarter than them, but because I genuinely care and want to help, and in a way, I'm 'resonating' with their emotions to the point that they feel like I'm holding them inside me.
I discovered my autism at 65 years of age, and among the millions of epiphanies, one of them has been this. How well I recall the humiliation and pain I felt back in college when my roomate upbraided me because "every time I tell you about something I'm going through, you start talking about something you went through." I was thunderstruck, viscerally stunned. This was my way of trying to say I understood, and it was devastating to me to realize it was taken in completely the opposite way, as if I were trying to top him or simply ignore his feelings.
I'm only just learning and coming to accept that I'm autistic on the eve of my 31st birthday. I've never felt so seen since coming to this realization. Thank you so much for making this beautiful video.❤
Thanks for commenting
Honestly these videos make me understand a lot of problems I’ve had throughout life. I appreciate it
Thanks for this video. People have told me that I could be autistic, but this video made me really feel it. This is exactly most typical communication issue I have, that people often read my comments as trying to valuate something, when it is not about that. Which have teached me to overly explain, how my comment is not about who is better or what is better, but rather for mutual understanding and perspective and so on.
How ever on "there there" comment, it is not just ego boost. People sometimes want to share and experience emotion with people and they want room for it. For them going on solutions is neglecting the existence of emotion. So what I do is at some extence be in the emotion with them and push aside solutions, until it seems like emotional part is over. Sometimes people never want solutions, in those cases I can't help and I have to accept it
I've known my whole life that when I relate to other people's stories by telling my own, that it annoyed them.... And like the host I tried just making the required noises instead. But any time I genuinely felt empathy, and wanted to connect, I would instinctively go back to relating by telling my own stories. Glad to know my intentions were correct at least.
Yes, this IS us displaying that we DO have mirror neurons and we DO have empathy - just that our way of thinking and expressing it comes from a place of "look, listen, I can relate to how you feel" and an immediate genuine humanitarian impulse to help fix problem or relieve suffering.
Being labeled as selfish for that is heart-wrenching and undermines our common need for interhuman connection, and can even train us to become less empathetic.
Great video, i love your calm, balanced, grown up way of illuminating the subject, Quinn! Will definitely share with those who need to understand us better. It may actually be a very good starting point to learn about autism..
I finally got diagnosed last year, in my late 40's, after years fighting to be heard and treated humanly. Not really been able to talk to family/friends about this most important breakthrough of my life, due to aversion / little interest on their part, and a full head exploded with insights difficult to channel into tasty bite-sized info-nuggets on my part. Getting there though, and videos like this are great for sharing / introduction to relevant topics due to the concise, thought through and compassionate manner in which they are made. You are a wonderful and important ambassador for some of us, thank you very much Quinn, you are much appreciated! ❤
I think this is one of your very best videos. I hope to share it with some allistic people if they are open to it. I have certainly suffered, and lost my job, because of the double empathy problem. Thank you for this!
My brother, you explained it. I've been trying to learn these things for > 67 years AND have known 2 non autistic people who understood (Both women, if that matters at all). I think that part of the problem communicating with non autists is that they don't have the same interest in detail as we tend to have? THANK you, as always!
"This!"
I've been accused of not having empathy. And yet, I feel as if I'm more intensely empathetic than most people I know. I had to discover, quite accidentally, that what other people want is the "there, there, you poor dear thing," whereas that type of response from others will only grate my nerves. I seek to feel understood by someone who has been through a similar experience and can offer practical guidance. It turns out that others don't want help and they dont want to resolve any problems. They just want to receive an empty, sugar-coated "everything will be fine" response.
... and then I learned that I'm Autistic and that a double empathy situation exists.
it is hard for me to understand that some people only WANT those pat answers...and someone to listen. But when they spout the same problems for years, I cant take it anymore, lol. When they refuse to seek solutions, I have to decide for myself that my 'listening' to them isnt helping me or them. I dont want to be on the recieving end of a constant dump truck of emotions from someone who refuses to work toward a solution after a while. I don't have energy to be a "good listener" for those who only want validation for their complaining. It is grating!
Great work, I'm not autistic but I'm more than sure I've interfaced with a lot of them in IT. What I've tended to notice is these sorts of people tend to be far more authentic, it doesn't cross their minds that someone is simply wanting sympathy rather than true empathy which are solutions and advice based, which is the difference between helping and simply wallowing in group feelings.
Exactly this! I feel usually compassion and authenticity by autistic people (I hate that label tbh).
I think this says more about society itself than them. Meaning, society is so inflexible and dogmatic/close minded that everything which doesn't exactly match their standard is automatically alienated.
If someone is going to tell me their feelings, then I am going to be emotionally invested. I will listen, and I will ask them if they are interested in any advice if I have any.
That person saying it's black catting is projecting. If they were responding with their own story, it would be to one up and get attention. They're the narcissist. Before I was diagnosed, I got in trouble a lot for this. Honestly, I would say it, I thought, because we had a shared experience. I thought "wow, we have a connection!"And that often didn't happen.
Sometimes, I would be so shocked at how uncanny the connections, I would keep responding with my experiences, until someone would accuse me of trying to "one up", which never entered my mind.
It's also no win. Autistic individuals get trawled for empathy by those who intend to give nothing back socially because they regard themselves as better-than. Autistic individuals get trawled because they've done a lot of reflecting, objectively categorising experiences, reading etc and faced untold challenges in solitude.
To me that person's comment seemed full of hurt anger. Makes me think that there's someone in their life who is a one-upper. Those people definitely exist, and it makes sense that someone who is repeatedly subjected to that sort of thing will read ALL similar situations as one-upping. (Or black catting. That was a new term for me)
When I read or hear overly harsh statements like that, it indicates deep hurt on the part of the speaker/writer. I don't think it was necessary to make that statement the centre of this video, as if it's the standard neurotypical view.
I don't think highlighting that comment was an effort to show the standard neurotypical response. It was to show a common incorrect assumption that I am very sure every single autistic person has been accused of. And it goes beyond autistic vs neurotypical it is about what our society thinks empathy is and how there is a fundamental misunderstanding that prevents people recognizing true compassion when it's infront of them. The way Autistic people express empathy is a very vulnerable practice that can leave them in danger of being mocked for their experiences and a lot of people are uncomfortable with vulnerability for this reason, so some may think the practice can't be genuine because who would ever be so vulnerable willingly unless there was something else in it for them. As Quinn stated in the video autistic people are very compassionate people (in general of course everyone is different) and even academics can't see this as a positive because compassionate people can be abused so the autistic person must be defective in someway to be willingly compassionate.
Or maybe this person was hurt by a narcissist and reacting based on that.
Part of empathy is giving people the benefit of the doubt. I personally think it's better to assume someone is ignorant (just lack of knowledge, not calling them stupid) rather than assuming they are being malicious.
In my experience it’s usually the length of time used for the story. As a lot of neurotypicals do relate but usually keep it to “I’ve experienced this too so I know how you feel” or a short summation of the story instead of going into detail on your own. This may seem like since it’s so long in the conversation without the focus on the original issue that the other person is trying to get attention or sympathy. If people respond badly with the short version too then that’s a them problem.
As a female and only diagnosed with ADHD at 45. I’m now in therapy trying to undo all the false perceptions I have had of myself that neurotypicals have put on me over the years.
Luckily I had worked out that I’m sharing to try and communicate to the other person that I understand. But for a few years though I stopped saying anything about myself because I thought I was selfish.
It’s funny I can make eye contact and don’t shutdown around other neurodiverse people. I’m starting to wonder if the eye contact thing for me is shame based. And if the shutdown for me is just the reaction to just having no idea about what to say without being perceived as ‘wrong’ or ‘selfish’ or ‘weird’. Like an IFS protective part coming in to save me.
Narcissistic do oneupmanship as a way to feel better about themselves, because deep down they they don’t feel good about themselves at all. (IFS is really good for understanding all this.)
Hey Quin I'd just like to say thankyou for being there for the future generation of autists. Your videos discussing autism are quite informative. I wish I'd had them growing up.
Thank you! This video gave me some words to describe what I've been feeling for a long time!
Woh thats is an eye opener Quin, Thank you. This is how I have always interacted, I have also learned its important to give silence for thinking time, although this is all still a work in progress as am I.
It never acured to me people would think sharing and showing understanding was selfish. Relationship = Sharing Sharing creates understanding. Understanding help compassion for diversity.
The Story is a gift.
Thank you for explaining this so clearly. I'm hoping some of my friends/family will watch it. I remember, at 14yo, living with my Aunt and Uncle, once being called out by my uncle for responding to other peoples' stories. He wasn't kind about it... especially considering my mom had died that same year.
"Why do you that?! It's selfish to respond to people by talking about yourself." At the time, I was confused because I didn't know how else to respond to people. I told him, "its because I want to show that I understand."
Even to this day, nearly 30 years later, that sticks in my mind as the first time I realized most people don't understand me... I did, however, learn to respond differently to people. The funny thing is, even now when responding to others the "right" way, I do so with the conscious act of remembering that conversation with my uncle so many years ago.
The sadder bit is, when I tell a story of my own, not in response to another person, I almost never get the reaction I would want.
I hope you take this as the compliment I intend. I just discovered you a couple days ago. Your voice is very soothing to listen to, and sometimes I listen to just the audio of the video. The pacing and pauses feel like a podcast, and I mean this as a positive, as it's very easy to listen to and process what you say. Along with the audio cues you include. Having the visual of the video on UA-cam is just icing on top of the proverbial cake, and definitely enhances the experience as a result.
I'm really enjoying when I watch and listen to your videos. Thank you for this experience, and for the content you provide.
Thank you
This whole issue is based off a presumptuous mentality: "I shared a personal story with you with the expectation that you care - your response is to share a relatable personal story with me and expect that I care? How dare you! How rude!"
It is a demonstration that the personal story shared was not shared to be communicative but rather performative. They are grumbling about not receiving applause, instead being made an audience member in turn.
There is a lack of gratitude at the realization that anyone taking the time to respond in kind with their own personal experience DOES care. Personally, if I really didn't care about someone's personal story, I would let them finish and shrug: 'cool story' and that would be all they get. I know people who might just ignore them outright.
It's a symptom of our egocentric culture and it should be challenged with higher thinking - like this video.
This is why this fills me with rage. Adhd here, but this has been the bane of my existence
Crap i just did it😂
Brilliant and spot! I loved watching your interaction with Mike. It “felt” like the relationship time I have with a couple of people in my life…. one diagnosed autistic, the other not but displaying a few traits. The first “healthy” adult relationships I’ve ever had after almost 60 years of repeated unrelenting unhealthy relationships.
It’s the narcissist type that does not want to be bothered by your “connection” story demonstrating you relate. They feel upstaged or that you want to share their stage. And call you selfish or even a “conversational narcissist” always making it all about you… vs them.
The majority are not offended. The narcissist type is.
Hollow words of empathy… the “there there” and belittling or downplaying the struggle you are experiencing , the Polyanna programming is often frustrating to the autistic. It doesn’t display that empathy “connection”. 🤷♀️
100%
Yes! Autistics don't have a natural affinity for "performative empathy" or "performative altruism," "performative worship" or "performative love." Allistics pick up these social communication patterns very early, following their primitive fight/fight/freeze/fawn instincts to remain firmly attached to "the group" or "the tribe," in order to survive.
I am so happy you have brought this up because I do this myself and everybody says i am being selfish and everything's about me it's not I'm trying to empathize with the person I'm talking to
My partner of 3.5 years started calling me out for this all the time. It was one of the reasons I finally found out that I'm autistic and ADHD at age 39!
Yes! This is exactly how I work and while I'm telling my story I have this feeling that I'm sharing it because we'll all understand each other better and feel less alone. This is the same drive I have with info-dumping. I found out something new that improves my life, now I want to plug in the data cable to someone else and do a system update to the new information even though it doesn't work this way.
Telling stories to show empathy reminds me of Star Trek The Next Generation when picard crash lands with the alien who speaks in stories. The ancient story is Darmok and Jalad at Tanagra. On that planet they tell the new story that is like the old story but about them now Picard and Dathon at El-Adrel. I'm trying to literally show the empathy in its historic context.
So glad you finally enabled super thanks! Also this is one of if not THE best empathy videos I've watched ❤❤❤
Thanks for the support & the feedback💜
4:23 I left a similar comment on that video: As a coping mechanism for the HYPER-EMPATHY you described @ 6:29, “Autists” CHOOSE close off our minds when another person is hurting, so we don't need to feel that pain ourselves. I propose that it's another character on Star Trek (besides Vulcans) who best exemplifies Autistic empathy specifically: Deanna Troi on TNG. Since she’s only half-Betazoid, she’s not telepathic like full Betazoids, but she can read most species' emotions. In TNG’s pilot episode “Encounter at Farpoint”, she intentionally closes her mind at one point because reading the emotions of one particular life form is causing her INTENSE (Emotional & Physical) PAIN. This (& also, by helping the other person to feel better, we no longer need to feel their pain ourselves) is the reason that we do what appear to be unselfish actions, but are in reality done for (somewhat) selfish motives.
true, we want peace for them and for ourselves. I don't think that is always selfish, but a goal that seems like all people would WANT. It's just that some people find it easier to be mean and not seek to understand. We only want to be accepted for who we are...just like NTs... if the heart motive is pure then it is not self centerdness... but I understand what you are saying, and I will try to be more understanding of those whom I wish would understand me.
oh wow, it's nice to know that i'm not unfeeling, and that it was just a coping mechanism this whole time. which makes sense in retrospect!
'Hmmmmmm why do I always pretend to be a telepathic alien?' - my autistic arse wondering about my habits when daydreaming myself into the Star Trek universe
I've learned that empathy can be a curse due to being exploited. I'm affective empathic but it's so draining. It's why I'm alone now. Society is just overwhelming.
I believe autistic individuals get targeted for empathy trawling.
Neurotypicals are selfish and love to exploit it.
Neurotypicals are selfish and love to exploit it.
I wonder if you, like me, have frequently been steamrolled in conversation due to being a compassionate listener? It's a tough situation (to put it mildly) when you really would like to be present & responsive for someone but they take your apparent 'passive' demeanor as an excuse to emotionally dump &/or assert some weird kind of dominance. Very exploitative, IMO. Apologies if that isn't the type of exploitation you meant. 🩵
I read something about sometimes powerless empathy is just increasing the suffering in the world. I wear earbuds when running errands because I can't separate myself from both the frazzled parent and the upset child when it comes to feelings even when I have no idea what's going on or just realize a toddler needs to hear no sometimes
I avoid telling people any positive things going on in my life because i absolutely dread the "oh good job congradulations!" Its so fake it hurts...
This is such a real thing. People have looked at me in horror when I jave tried to empathise cognitively. I have to be so careful about sharing so often. Gets me into trouble.
Keep the content going Quinn we all need it.
As far as I know, I'm not autistic. But I see myself in that story. And as I lately wonder, if I might actually be autistic, this is another reason, why I consider it.
I'll never understand why autistic people are the ones who are expected to adjust to allistic communication styles... Since allistic people are supposedly the ones who have an easier time reading social cues and implicit meaning, why not put that to good use to make the interaction run more smoothly for all parties? It's not that hard to guess at the other person's intentions in that interaction and extrapulate their probable meaning from that. Even if someone has a different cultural background or language barrier or is neurodivergeant or simply has a unique way of expressig themselves. Why assume animosity or black-catting just because someone's empathic response doesn't fit your personal blueprint?!
I'm not sure if I am on the spectrum or not, but I can relate to a lot of the stories I've heard from autistic creators on youtube due to my adhd. I also have two colleagues who are autistic and can't/don't really mask. And I often wish that everyone was as easy to talk to and understand as them: What they say is what they mean. No games or guessing. They're probably the only people I know who seem to genuinely put effort into b3ing understood. While most other people I know are much more focussed on not accidentally communicating any more of their true inner thoughts than is absolutely necesssary, or palatable to to others.
sometimes my go to for being the one to comfort, I usually start with: "do you want me to give you advice, be a shoulder you cry on, or to just just listen?" and let them go from there. laying out the field of how we're starting and what i can do to help them does wonders to get on even ground
1:50 such a weird phrase, I assumed it would have been something to do with stereotyping behaviours of a black cat like how people sometimes claim orange cats are dumber. Like maybe something about the mimicking after owners for attention ( not that that’s not an all cats thing but still )
To be fair a lot of our phrases are, but there are definitely better comparisons. Maybe for example "fatter purse" instead of "blacker cat", but that applies more in modern day too, and perhaps more to our culture. The pot calling the kettle black was always an odd one to me, at least the cat thing kinda makes sense lol
I just wanted to say, I really appreciate your pauses between thoughts and sentences. With so many creators over using jump editing to remove every breath and every millisecond of silence, this was actually refreshing.
I need you to know how important seeing this video was to me today. I can still remember clear as day about fifteen years ago, someone I thought of as a good friend once catching me mid conversation and saying “you know, you don’t have to have a response for everything someone else has to say”. I have spent years trying to act differently, trying to catch myself from being ‘insensitive’ or ‘narcissistic’, when deep down I genuinely never thought I was being that. My last few years have been very rough. Although always struggling to fit in from the earliest age, some would say I did relatively well for myself. I worked at quite high positions in large telecom companies but in the end, after about twenty years, I couldn’t cope with the internal politics and conflicting messages and agendas and basically started to shut down. Then covid hit. I live in a foreign country and the very few people I interacted with were gone. I have since not been able to return to work and have been struggling to keep it together. The many hours of doom scrolling and youtube binging die to sleeplessness seem to have pulled the youtube algorithm to recommend autism and adhd channels to me. I stress that I have NOT been professionally diagnosed (I’m 56 years old and living in a foreign country, so there are exactly lines of people offering me the opportunity) but many of the symptoms discussed and life experiences shared have resonated with me so strongly that I genuinely feel I may have found something that until literally a few weeks ago had never even been a consideration. This video and your point in particular were so specifically familiar to me, that regardless of any diagnosis , I wanted to let you know that I can deeply empathise (no, really!) with what you shared, and also, that I want to thank you from the bottom of my heart for taking the time to share it. I haven’t even finished the video but was so compelled to write this that I paused it to do so. If your conclusion ends up totally turning everything on its head and making me come across like an asshole, well f… it, I’ll take that bullet because you’ve confirmed to me the first time in my life that something I do without ego but often an uncontrollable enthusiasm to kind of say “No way! Me too!” is not meant to take away from the other person’s glory or pain, but simply a way that I react in empathy, which is not recognised as such by so many. Again, and I apologise for the rant, thank you so much for sharing. I genuinely wish I had people like you to talk to many years ago and have already subscribed because I’m so interested in what more you have to say.
Thank you for commenting, for telling me your tale and for making an entirely unnecessary apology😉😊
I'm glad to see you back! Have always enjoyed your insightful videos. You are such a great advocate for the autistic community. Take care of yourself
The issue is that true empathy isn’t something we can achieve by projecting ourselves. Sometimes our experience of the world is so vastly different that we can’t reach each other without getting to know each other.
Trying to relate a event someone is sharing to one that occurred to oneself is a way of getting a point of reference to know how someone is feeling
Thank you for connecting those dots. I had all the pieces already from experience and have felt the frustrations of myself and others as a result. This is also why I've always cherished my fellow autistic friends, because I felt such a deep and genuine connection that I don't get with non-autistic individuals. I'm going to share this with my family and hopefully we can build some bridges of understanding between the two modes of being. Everyone is their own musical note, but trying to be in harmony with others is both a challenge and a reward in its own right.
Makes sense. I often make the mistake of attempting to offer a practical solution to what is presented as a real problem, which is actually and expression of artificial drama.
Thanks for the support. It's surprising how often it happens, isn't it?
Hi, Quinn! I wanted to first of all express my deep gratitude and appreciation for you sharing your personal experiences and vulnerability here. As a 30-something queer minority struggling to get the proper diagnosis and information to continue healing trauma as well as gaining knowledge and tools necessary for expressing my intent and self-advocacy....well, this is everything. I did not expect to feel so seen, validated, understood, and heard when I found you just today lol let alone heal trauma i didn't even know was there. It is creators like yourself that are the "spirit guides" for all the misunderstood and misdiagnosed hopeless undiagnosed out here. Ya'll are the lighthouses we so desperately need in the darkest times of our lives. Thank you for providing the terminology and examples I needed to progress in this long and beautiful process of learning self love and "aha moments" I'm now aware I have provided yet another example of Cognitive Empathy and further prove your content is needed to break the social stigma about autists and neurodivergence as a whole. Forever thankful and following! Here we grow, ya'll!!!
Thank you. That made my day💜💜
I am very grateful for this video. It sets out something I have been thinking about very well. I still don't really understand why people would share a problem they have and then get upset if you offer an actual solution or improvement instead of just waffle and go around in circles. It's only in the last few years I figured out that's what they want at all.
THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR THE EXPLANATION. It helped me understand what I do and how it is completely taken the wrong way. I have learned over the years to just nod and use “small facial expressions” to show empathy. I have very strong mirror neurons and my brain feels like it is about to explode when I do this when all I want to do is talk and share experiences to show how truly deep my empathy goes. I am an older female and have learned this and many other ways of masking. I never knew why I would feel so completely exhausted until I realized I was autistic. This was the happiest light bulb moment of my life. Thanks for sharing all your videos. They have been helpful in so many ways.
I am newly diagnosed AuDHD, (10 mths ago, so still getting to know the ropes and myself as such.
Thank you and Mike for helping me, for the first time, to feel 'normal' for the way I show empathy - that is, to share an example of how I have been through a similar situation and can therefore relate to how they feel, and possibly offer an example of how I dealt with it and got through it.
It ALWAYS comes from a place of caring, not an intention of making it about me.
Although nobody has complained (to me at least), I have wondered myself if that's how I have come across and tried to clarify.
I also can't do the there-there thing - it seems trite. I have added "I understand" to my repertoir and may consider adding "how can I help?" if in doubt, because I have learned that people don't always want solutions, just sympathetic pats.
Paradoxically, it sometimes irritates me when others have done the same to me! Sometimes I don't want anecdotes, which feel like one-downmanship - a competition of who is more traumatised.
Maybe those times were legit black-catting, or I just didn't trust them.
Surely it must be case by case, depending on the combo of personalities/neurotypes.
...Hmmmm... Did I just make that all about me? Ooops ;)
Thanks again for your informative channel.
It is nice to see a fellow autistic express the same feelings I often have. Somewhat reassuring that it isn't a lack of empathy, just that 'neurotypical' people are too performative often.
I like the explanation of empathy among autistic people. That does seems like me, being hyper responsive to people emotions. I never could block it, while other people seemed unphased. Btw. I watched a ton of your videos, when I finally accepted that I'm autistic. I think you do great work, and watched the interview you're referring in this video - what you're explaining is how I relate to my autistic friends. I never knew I was autistic for about 35 years, and my closest friends has been and still are undiagnosed autistics. Very few, but very valuable relationships.
I’ve only recently realised I’m autistic and that by responding with my story to show that I understand and care about that they are saying, I come off as selfish. Sometimes I get upset about how superficial neurotypicals can be and see me as narcissistic because I didn’t give them the basic, empty response they want AND they lack the ability to at least try and understand that I come from a place of care. It’s like “if you don’t respond with the required cookie cutter answer, you’re an asshole and I refuse to empathise with your intentions” . Why do they always assume the worst in people :/
I never considered the possibility of being autistic, but the more I actually listen to podcasts like this, read Reddit posts etc, I realize many of my ADHD symptoms diagnosed correspond with autism and AuDHD I think it’s called. I relate so heavily but I also can fake my way through social situations by sort of checking the boxes
I do this too and until this moment never thought it to be an autistic trait. I was once pulled up on it being called selfish by a housemate, and when Google started pointing out narcissism in a friend of mine I thought it was saying I was also a narcissist. I've started questioning if I should be tested for asd or ADHD. This is all very new to me
I don't like those cookie-cutter responses, either (and it's like, "How am I supposed to know every cookie-cutter response for every situation? Do I have to memorize them?"). It just feels fake for some reason if I use them, like, if I use a cookie cutter response, that'll start a conversation that I'm not sure if I know how to respond to.
This! So funny, that we ate the ones with the empathy impairment, but they are the ones who plain are not willing to use theirs
@@jennifer255they are so holloe and I just cant find the words it feels like wood in my mouth
I've come to realise that my empathy and conscience has been exploited by manipulative people I have known in the past. There have been times this has made me look over my shoulder just to make sure I haven't insulted them.
Telling similar stories to someone trying to gain empathy is a way to show they aren't alone through example, it's like saying "i get how you feel" but being even MORE genuine about it by giving an example
I’m not sure if I’m autistic, but the more I learn about autism it shines light on interactions with my siblings, friends, even how my dad communicated with us. It’s a little bit of a “broken homes the whole way down” situation, but there’s still an element of us learning to communicate with each other in a way that’s very different to interacting with friends.
Once again, you have expressed things in a clear, easy to follow way that I have been feeling for a long time, yet not having the ability to express in a way that those who are different would be able to understand. Thank you.
1:07 Ironically, offering unwanted sage advice is also an autism thing.
oh I used to be so bad with this. I would tell you how I overcame it, but I don't do that anymore
My experience with that is usually somebody first telling me: “hey, I want your advice” only to tell me later “I didn’t want you to instruct me”…
Then why did they ask for advice in the first place?
I've never never felt so validated by a video such as this before. I've shared this with people I am close with. Thank you so much for making this.
Well i just learned something new. didn't know shearing stories of my own was such a social pho pah.
I always knew i did this, but having it explained like this really makes me realise why i hate getting "you'll figure something out" back from someone after telling them a problem. I told you to *help* me figure out!!
This is a video I really needed right now. I always felt like I talk about my own stories and life too much, that I may have narcissistic tendencies Recently that feeling have been out the roof. But now, I know as an Asberger, that it's just the way I process and offer empathy. And why I so love trading stories of our lives back and fourth. Why I feel hard to offer simple platitudes to those in distress, even my own girlfriend (she will be linked this video), and why I would always try to offer solutions to problems than simple aknowledgements.
I'm not officially diagnosed but I'm learning this stuff in my 30s! Thank you for this video. It's so validating to my form of showing empathy which I now know is double empathy.
When I share my similar stories, it is to demonstrate that the other persons experience is familiar to me. I.e. "I know how you feel." But just saying that phrase is meaningless and unempathetic.
The way I see it, saying 'I know how you feel' sounds like a lie, because you're not that person, you don't have their experience, of course you don't really 'know how they feel'. If someone says to me, 'I know how you feel', it makes me feel irritated at best. But telling a story of a similar situation you've experienced, is saying instead 'I've been in a similar situation, and I can empathise with your struggle'. Or delight if it's a positive situation; or pride, or despair, or excitement - any situation you want to demonstrate that you relate to.
'I know how you feel' seems like an inherently dishonest statement to me. Sharing an experience is a much more genuine way of connection with someone else's emotional state. Or not, if you're someone like that commenter, I suppose.
@@zoecameron9166 And the words "I can't imagine how you must feel" are supposed to be somehow better but to me they're just words for the sake of words. Pointless noise.
@@zoecameron9166 Absolutely!
Love how you put all this together. Understanding all this is so important. I've been listening to videos on narcissism, witch hunts, and targeting. Im ADHD and Autistic, and misunderstood frequently.
Thank you so much for sharing this. I feel seen and heard. And I hear you too.
Thank you for explaining this further. It’s not only great for the autie community to understand themselves better, but for the NT community to understand us better too and appreciate how we communicate!
Thanks for the effort in making this video. All the best Joseph and the cats
This is fascinating to me. Because for years, I’ve been trying to figure out what was different about me. Then my sister was diagnosed as being on the spectrum. And had suggested this to me for years, but I just wasn’t ready for it. I consistently return a likewise story to people when they’re sharing a problem or story with me. And as you pointed out. This isn’t black catting! It’s my way of trying to show them that I have an intimate understanding of what they may be going through. And also to give them perhaps an idea or some resources on how to get through it. It’s a way I try to connect with people. And show them that I am actively not just listening to them, but that I really understand.modern culture is so hyper critical and hyper repressive. I am tired of it.
And I would also say that many of these people that basically just regurgitate crap that they’ve learned online through hyper liberal ideals. Don’t actually have any depth or follow through. I’m the kind of person who is there for you after the fact. I’m actually tangible not just regurgitating over sensitive information about trendy topics. I’m coming from an honest place of empathy and life experience. Follow through.
well said, I'm with this 100%
This was so helpful. I didn't know that was an autistic way of showing empathy, I only knew that when I respond like that, people do not take it the way it was intended and now I understand the whole thing much better. Thank you very much!
2:00 AMEN! Say it louder for those in the back! I used to give a story to show that they are not alone! That we are in this together and I understand. I also think this is how conversations happen... it's like sometimes another person will also talk. It's a bit narcissistic to think it can only be about you now that you've said something emotional.
I didn't know some people saw sharing your own things to show we understand bothered people until 3 years ago😅 and I'm 36. So... I don't anymore for fear of offending them because they think I'm black catting. (New phrase for me, thanks). I definitely am not trying to one up you; I'm not that person.
Trying to help is also my love language. Immediately my brain will try to fix a situation for someone and give advice... and I've never had anyone tell me not to... so also another thing I didn't know some people get annoyed at. Maybe I've just naturally only given advice to people who are open to receiving it? Idk.🤷♂️