Low Drum Throne VS High Drum Throne - Which is Better?
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- Опубліковано 4 тра 2022
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Just as firey as the debate about low vs high cymbals is that about low vs high thrones. That's why I couldn't NOT do a video about it.
From Vinnie, to Chad Smith, to Lars, low-throners are populist, rebellious, rockers, not afraid to sod ergonomics for a cool looking kit. And nothing looks cooler than being surrounded by a wall of drums and cymbals you're practically falling out the bottom of.
But another group, which includes people like Chris Dave, but also rockers like Mike Portnoy, eschewed the easy answers, swam upstream, and decided they were going to sit high. In every sense of that phrase.
Soooo which is actually better?
What does it feel like to play in each playing position? What are the pros and cons of each?
And finally, what's the actually-ideal playing position from a posture/ergonomics standpoint?
We'll cover that all in this lesson.
I have been both high-sitting & low-sitting over the years. Now, at almost 64 years, I find that my lower back will hurt if I'm sitting low for too long. I'm not extreme, so my angles are fairly close to 95 degrees. An inch up or down can make a real difference to me. I also find that it's really important to have a very stable throne, where all the settings lock down so it doesn't move while I'm playing.
This. Im 27 and had to have my spine reconstructed recently and I'm just starting to toy with drumming again slowly yesterday and had to raise my throne a solid 8 ish inches. But I find that my ankles are more open and finessing my pedals and a lower, flatter angle was easier.
I heard that. The Throne. I have a good one. 4 legs and a back rest. 159.00 ten years ago. Tama I think. Very comfortable. I'm 57 and I started at 20 years old. I like my legs to be at about a 45 degree angle. Not low. And not high. But I will make a change if needed. There's some old friends that I get together with now and again and when we play Elvis stuff I feel great. But classic rock is good. Cream. Derrick and the Dominos. Heart. Straight on. Badass song.
I was converted to locking my throne these past few years. Played swivel for decades, and locked is so much more comfortable and in control.
Dude is so mellow then just hammers the skins with great technique and ease of playing. A Quiet Monster. Impressive.
High throne, protect your back or you will be in trouble, I’m 6 foot 2 all my toms and snare are high as I can get them, with the symbols just above them all down to ergonomics. If you’re taller and you have a kit with your tom toms attached to your bass drum reverse the bass drum so your tom-toms is closer to you this drastically improved my playing with a better angle on my pedal
Reversing the bass drum looks so weird bro
I was taught 'hip above knee', snare at the level of your belt. If you set up around that, it'll work for your height and dimensions. If I set up too low, i get lower back problems really quickly. Also, I don't think you can sit as well when you're sat lower. You have to hold your legs 'up' to play the pedals. If you sit higher, it's more like stepping down onto the pedals. At least for me...
Right on with that last bit. If your knee is above the belt area that is just extra motion needed to strike the bass drum
I'm 6'1" .. the Australian guy nailed it.. my newest drum seat was slowly lowering itself when I first got it ..found myself down with my knees in my cheeks... and that's painful. Noticed the mechanics were strained as well.. I need moderate height on seat - not high chair style. I was studying to become massage therapist in the 90s..so I became very aware of posture structure early on . A very important video topic IMO . cheers bro.
I’ve been chasing the ideal seat height for years.. I’ve experimented with low throne, low drums and high cymbals. low throne higher drums and low cymbals, high throne, low but almost flat drums and high cymbals. All possible configurations. As you said everyone is different. It comes down to feeling balanced and centered on the stool. Either sitting high or low, I found that widening my feet (distance between my pedals) helped with my center balance point.
I’ve always aired on the higher side, with medium hight cymbals. I find kinda sitting above the kit feels more comfortable, and it also allows me to see the people I’m playing with and the crowd. It’s funny though cause I tell people the best upgrade you can do to your kit is a quality throne. Like having something comfortable to sit on is such a game changer! You feel much more stable, and you can play longer. Like I tell people you’ll be shocked how much you’ll notice an overall improvement playing just by getting a good throne.
I did a couple of gigs supporting Bryan Adams .. with Mickey Curry on drums. In soundcheck he let me sit behind his set. Man alive, his stool is so low i felt like I was almost sitting on the deck! And yet he grooves like a monster, awesome player!
Great topic as ever, can't wait for your next upload!
I love this channel! Nate, you crack me up, bro.
thanks Nate I watch as much as I can always enjoy your teaching
Speaking as a bass player with over 40 years experience, I can only offer my observations from playing with hundreds of drummers. I've never played with a funky drummer who sat high. In fact, the funkiest and best pocketed drummers in my experience all sit low, a few sit ridiculously low.
This may just be the most relevant comment in the whole thread.
This is exactly my experience over the years. Many of the groove monsters didn’t sit high.
Jeff Porcaro is a very good example for this.
I do not say drummers who sit high don’t groove but there’s this special kind of groove which seems to connect with lower throne height …
I always sat a bit more high because I was more comfortable and I could get a good angle on the bass pedal. I lowered my ride cymbal and kept the crashes in easy reach. My hi-hat is a little higher than my snare and my floor tom is within comfortable distance and height.
I was always playing high-sitting until I learned to play the double bass. My legs got exhausted quicky when playing double bass, bc I had to raise them higher then when sitting low. Now I'm a low-sitter.
Almost to a hundred k, good stuff. 👍
High sitting is a luxury, make use of it!! I remember the when I got my new drum throne as a kid and I could sit higher, and now I sit on my throne at the highest setting. It’s just nice to be able to relax and make use of the room I have when my legs are more outstretched.
Excellent sir.
When I first saw Tommy Aldridge way back in "72, his hips were below his knees. It worked for him with plenty of power and double bass technique. I sit the same way for playing rock and metal, then sit higher for jazz gigs with a single kick...
Much appreciated. Having lower back pain from moving out of college - thankfully I know it’s not my posture though. Looked at some videos of myself and I’m sitting quite high.
I got into a motorcycle accident in my 20s and had to get both ankles fused. I have to sit a bit on the high side as I stomp a lot now without having an ankle joint on either foot. I had to change what I play
Since I switched to a high throne I find it much harder to balance as a heel-up player. It feels like I'm falling forwards in moments when both feet are on the upstroke.
Try 1/3 of your height, for throne elevation. Then place throne 1/2 of your height, from bass drum head to center of throne seat. This is a great starting point for seated position at drumset.
When sitting too high I feel a little out of balance and it’s more difficult to dig into the kit. I prefer a lower setup, farther back from the kick
I recently had to re-understand ergonomics behind my kit. After playing a 20-inch kick for over a decade, I upgraded kits. Yes, the new kit is much higher quality and sounds amazing, but it has a 22-inch kick. It's taken me three years to finally find the right angles and heights for optimum efficiency and comfort! And now I can play a four hour set with only my regular old man pains!
Great video as usual. Bordin was still barely visible behind the kit in the 90's, since he used 15" and 16" rack toms (!!!) with no angle. Personally, I tend to sit high...the low throne makes me force the hip flexors too much, but that might be just me.
I was a low sitter in my teens and early twenties. The "slouch" was comfortable and cool when my BACK wasn't an issue. Now that I'm playing in my 40s I find that good posture keeps me from feeling like my back isn't going to KILL me. A higher throne keeps my spine straighter. I often feel like a a nerd because I'm sitting up straight, but it keeps me from feeling like I'm going to die lol. When you're younger you can sit how you like, but as you age, posture becomes more of an issue. Adjust your height to keep your back in an ergonomic position. Good drumming requires taking care of yourself and paying attention to you're posture. It's not Rock n Roll, but fuck it, you're getting older, mate! If your back hurts, adjust!
90/90 is super solid advise. In college I took a class specifically for musician ergonomics called “Alexander Technique”. It was targeted to pianists and violinists, but as a percussionist I was paying close attention. The instructor reminded us that if we wanted to play for a long time injury free we should care about things like this. She was right 🙌. Great video!
I've started to notice the seat height more of some of my favorite drummers. I watched Chris Dave for years before I noticed he's almost standing behind his drums! Another one of my favorites, Thomas Pridgen sits much lower with his upper leg flat. In a video I saw recently he jumped in on Justin Brown's kit, whose throne was set much higher, but of course he still killed it on a song with Thundercat. I tend to sit lowish myself but will have to experiment with sitting higher. Shout out to Dave King and his standing drumming episode of rational funk!😄
Great job I like what you're doing here! My general rule is 16" (stick distance) from snare rim to stool rim. I like my legs at + 90 degrees, with my toes up, making my feet support the majority of my weight when relaxed, Not my butt.. Sitting that far away allows me to come in and out of the drums and and have the greatest range of dynamics! I really hate when I set drums up for a gig and then as the gig goes on I feel like I'm on top of my drums and loose rage to deliver maximum power (I play with elbow at my side, basically hands on lap when relaxed) The 16" distance allows me to play really light and controlled when leaning in, even with heal down, or when I wanna open up, I can sit back and WHOOP the drums! I takes a bit of getting used to but over the years I've found I can play extremely quiet and loud in one position and always feel comfortable.. physically. Socially I'm a mess.. also emotionally and mentally but reaching all my cymbals with ease and brush playing are all a pleasure with the 16" rule!
I always sat high and played mostly heel down, partly because that's what my first teacher taught, and partly because that's how Louie Bellson used to do it. Then one of my teachers started working on heel up technique with me, and I began sitting lower, because it seemed to make the technique easier at the time. I did that for awhile, until I started to get the technique under my belt, then I went back to sitting higher. I find it more comfortable to have my hips higher than my knees. Plus, Thomas Lang and Jojo Mayer seem to provide good reasons for doing it, and who am I to disagree with them?
Sean Reinert (RIP) used to sit like you do. His knees were so far in front of his ankles that his snare drum was over his bass drum, and his snare stand was behind his double pedal linkage.
Great topic that no one ever discussed.. I used to be a high drummer throne guy. Iam Short play heel up.. mostly. As I have aged I think being flat footed better for my back 👍
There is sonic, pocket, weight differences in sound too. Sitting low like AL foster ,idris Muhammad,Steve gadd tends to give you a wider,bigger sound. Most do it for sonic reasons.
Gracias
I started sitting very high up after intensive years of practice. It definitely helps with back issues.
Now a days I notice that when I don't play many hours I forget about the mega high throne.. it just takes an intense practice to start reminding me why I like to sit high up...
Check out what mr Dave Elitch says about height of throne. He sitting high af, and he explained it very detail how it impacts your posture, health etc
Nice movement at the end of the video. Haha! See you been busy.
Could you make the same type of video about snare height and angle?
Yes Boy! Another powerlifting musician. Rare in my experience
If you play an ekit, stop right now and go raise your throne, and raise the rest of your kit. IDK what it is about ekits that causes this drop, but I see it everywhere, and even I had to raise my ekit several times.
I set my throne up first, high enough to bounce my feet comfortably, and then I drag the pedals under my feet. This method has helped me more with ergonomics than anything else. If I feel like my feet and legs are bound up, I raise the throne. If I feel like I don't have good balance I lower the throne.
I actually like this topic and think about it a lot. I’ve always been a low boy, all around, but most of my hero’s sit way up.
My throne is always as high as it gets. I play great, needless to say ;)
After sitting through hours of rehearsals in college, do what keeps the pain away. For me, that's sitting much, much higher up than I used to. Fixed muscle strain problems in my back almost instantly.
That's also become my philosophy for everything in percussion, pain = bad.
The only correct technique is the one that doesn't injure you
Just seen the vid and have this to say about hip pain. If the back of your thigh is coming down on the edge of the seat then you could be levering your hip upwards in the last part of the thigh’s downward movement. For this reason I make sure my knee is not
lower than the seat with my heal down.
I think it depends on WHAT you are playing. I can't play the beat to "John the Fisherman" or "So Fresh and So Clean" without breaking that 90°rule. The obvious thing that happens in both of those songs is 3 quick kicks in a row. So, I just let a little air out of the ol' Roc-n-soc, and then put it back when I'm done. (Technically hydraulic and not pnumatic 🙄) Those 3 free videos are actually quite helpful by the way!
Hmmm - sounds like maybe you're playing heel down?
I found that I can groove way harder when I'm low. I don't know why but something about playing from there allows me to dig in deeper. The biggest downside to sitting low for me is back pain. It's murder on my back so I'm not going to do it. I also run out of steam quicker because I'm pushing uphill.
I sit the way Jacob explained but I had to figure it out through trial and error and watching other drummers. For me it's about ergonomics and it started when I began to reexamine the way I sat. What's the angle of my feet when I'm not thinking about it? Where do they land naturally. they aren't facing straight ahead that's for sure. Yet I see drummers fighting their bodies all the time.
It comes down to conserving energy and sitting in a position that allows me to deliver that stored energy in the most effective and natural way. And it's about limiting twisting and straining. Everything is right in front of me. It's easy reach without having to extend my arms too far or twist my back. The maximum amount of power for the least amount of effort.
Sitting low gives me more stability and feeling grounded, especially while playing double bass.
I have taken the Chris Dave "super high" approach and I keep my cymbals low I also sit far away from the set. For me it has always worked with my physique of having long legs and long arms but if I keep things high I get shoulder pain.
I like to sit low (a little over 90 degrees of bend) because I play a lot of heel-toe and it keeps my ankles relaxed. I also like my drums low so that means small kick drums but that's all good.
The older I get, the higher my throne gets
I'm short with long arms and legs. I prefer my throne a little higher but I can sit back because of my arm length. I have that 90 degree bend in my legs so 👍. Like you said, personal comfort and preference.
I used to sit very low but one day i just tried to sit high and wow! So much punch on the pedals, it is like squashing a... bug or something. and so easy to hit hard because my arms are close to the set. I'm playing rock and metalcore at the moment and I can save so much energy. Also, the audience can see me. that's cool.
I had a buddy sit in while our drummer took a break. He was sitting super low and never fixed the chair. He made himself black and blue from the back of his snare hand hitting his inner thigh. Looked super painful
I've never felt comfortable sitting high but that may be because I'm on the short side at 5'9". I have short legs and a longer torso so sitting low feels best to me, I also feel like I get the best power and control out of my playing.
5’9” is not “on the short side.” I’m 5’4” so damn you!
Yo what was that groove you were playing w the 4 way independence? That was super cool. I wanna learn it. Got a quick explanation or transcription?
Great channel btw. Glad I found this.
I'm selftaught and not a good drummer anyway, but I find that playing with low throne gives me more control over the kick pedal, but overall I like to sit higher because I like to be closer to the kit than further back
Chuck Biscuits on the Am I Demon/mother music videos is on a tall bar stool and basically looks like he’s standing up. Ray luzier sits very high as well, as he states so he feels like he is dominating the drums. Idk how people sit very high/very low it baffles my mind. I’m definitely an in the middle kind of drummer
Using a 24" kick , I've always had to get up over the drums so Im at more than 90 slightly. I always have issues when I have to sit on a low hieght kit. One guy in paticular who shall remain nameless was very short and played with seat like way below my knee hieght ( see old Vinny height) sitting on a milk crate height, to say the least making it impossilbe to play his kit !!
I'm a loud, heavy hitting drummer, but unlike some of the greats, I struggle to bring the power when I'm low, but when I sit higher, I'm more relaxed and can really unload and my rimshots are more powerful and consistant. I sit pretty damn high for my size, I'm only 5F 6.
I am not super tall or anything (6'0") but I have big feet for my height (size us 14) - I have to sit decently high and kind of far away from the kit to feel good. I was always told to sit as high as you can comfortably (comfort being the key word here)... as it gives you better freedom of movement etc.
It's called personal preference. Just like matched grip vs traditional grip.
I prefer to round my back when picking up heavy objects. It's just my preference bro. Who are you to judge? ;)
I used to be a low throne guy but that was before playing gigs. It destroyed my lower back. I like high throning it. I feel like I have great control. But like I usually don’t do anything to my stool
I took a break from drumming and I’m having a little trouble getting used to sitting as high as I used to. Though, I think it’s all about me not having my drumming muscles back yet.
I’m 6’4 and wanting to experiment with sitting higher, but I don’t have a drum throne that will stay stable at that height. Sitting higher effectively shortens your femurs, so you’re able to move closer to the kit which is nice.
My first teacher started me with the 90/90 rule and I haven't deviated.
it's good to be able to play both in case the show/practice kit provided to you has a lawn chair or somethng for a throne
Unfortunately, my throne is at its highest and I feel like I'm not elevated enough. How do I fix this?
I feel like I am more consistant when using a double kick pedal when sitting higher.
Not too higher. Just a tad higher.
Basically......try all the permutations, which ever feels best......that's the one for you....simples!!
I have osteoarthritis in both knees and I love to play I do so much wrong but if I can keep my legs straight I have more strength since both knees are bone on bone gabralter makes extended snare and hi hat stands
Another good thing to explore might be people who play heal down vs heal up.
Heel up baby!!
And just how people set up in general. Where do you put your hi hat? Where are your rack toms? Where's your ride? I try to set up so I don't have to straighten my arm to reach anything.
I don't understand how people play heel up, like it's impossible for me to keep my balance properly without a huge struggle, I've tried all kinds of height variations and such but I can't figure out how people do it
@@to-xh9lk same goes with me
I use a chair with 4 legs no moving heights. It is low. I keep the 2 back legs in the holes on big weights so I can kick off with force and it won’t move the chair.
61 years old here.....and i guess i've been a 90 degree guy for most of my playing days.....it just works for me....tho i do have a slouch in my back which probably doesn't help
Look at the style of the music they play...jazzy guys like it high, metal guys, just perfect height ;-)
What about a low thrum drone or a high thrum drone?
8:10.. i do that.. too
Your sitting position also depends on whether you play the bass drum heel up or heel down.
When I sit to high it seems like I’m jarring my knees when I sit to low it feel like I got to work harder to lift my leg . Somewhere in the middle is just right
It's simple. Ergonomics and comfort. Experiment. Control and speed without muscle pain.
It's not a style. It is about about function.
I sit high, it's the most comfortable for me. But I also pay my drums kind of high, I hate drums being near my ankles while trying to do a fill.
Talk to Dave Eilitch.
Why? ;)
@@texxhexxmm Because he helped countless (famous) drummers to fix their posture on the drum, relieve them from pain etc.
The throne at my local jam space is always really low and it doesn't go up. Was wondering if I should lower my own throne but now thinking I should just sit further back at jam sessions.
Hey mate just bring your own throne to the jam problem solved! Never sacrifice Your comfort always have your own throne and sticks at the very least. Plan ahead!
@@benking9160 appreciate the tip. hard to lug it onto the bus and my own throne is wobbly as shit so I deal.
@@spanzotab hi again I understand not everyone can afford a top quality throne, but please do yourself a favour and get one that feels sturdy and comfortable to YOU! It is crucial to your playing and in the long run your health!
@@benking9160 Just wanted to say, ended up taking your advice and invested in a Roc n Soc. Absolute game changer, I feel like I can actually develop technique with some real consistency. Thanks!
There are old pictures of Ringo where he is almost standing instead of sitting.
None is better! Whatever makes one comfortable works best!
I know exactly which vid that ergonomics clip in the intro is from lol
Sitting higher gives you more range of motion for full leg motion technique while sitting lower makes it easier to use ankle motion. However sitting close to the kit like you do is not advantageous except for being able to reach the rest of the drums easier. Sitting further back allows you to play all that high speed metal stuff with your feet but it will be harder to reach the rest of the drums. It's a compromise between these things.
if only they made hardware that allowed you to set up toms closer to you 🤔
German grip or French grip?
Chester Thompson is a super high sitter. So is Alan White.
I think the main danger of sitting super low is you're almost begging for back problems down the line, so at the very least I avoid doing that entirely on the rare occasion I actually get to play drums. My ideal setup is being relatively high up with the drums and cymbals all placed super ergonomically around me in terms of height and spacing so that I can do the maximum amount of stuff with the least amount of motion/effort possible.
Same
Low throne, high cymbals - Al Foster!!
I am not watching another video until we get the stackers video…. Okay that’s not true… but I really do want the stackers video 😅
I sit with my foot and knee at that angle too.
I’ve always tried to sit level
can i ask you how tall you are?
anyone know which sean rickman video is at 3:14?
It’s only clave with dapp theory
@@8020drummer thank you!
The knee should be behind the ankle and the hip should be above the knee. Heel up, heel down, power, consistency can all be had if this sweet spot is found. ua-cam.com/video/TCHmfoKjNY8/v-deo.html 3:18
Has anyone (maybe you, Nate?) got a suggestion for a throne I can raise up really high? Most thrones I've looked up online just don't go quite high enough for me and my long legs to be able to comfortably play heel up (a. k. a., have my feet dangling).
My AHEAD spinal glide throne is far and away the best I've ever owned and I will never switch from it...it is capable of going much higher than I need. Also, the "ass-crack" split seat style removed any pressure on your tailbone/spine, so unlike a normal throne you can sit on it for hours with no discomfort or that pain when you stand up. Not sure of exact height capability but def recommend investing in one. LASTLY, they come in a 4-leg model as well for extra stability! I've had it for 2 years and it seems as tho I may never need to replace it.
@@TupDigital hey, thanks for the prompt reply! Definitely gonna check that one out, much appreciated :)
Try DW. Plenty of upward adjustment, large seat and rock solid. But it’s heavy and expensive.
I tend to start my session high sittimg and end up slowly sinking to low sitting
Playing into the bass drum leads to sitting closer to the drums than playing out of the bass drum. Probably that's the difference between you and Jacob?
I don't alway play into the bass drum. I played with Jacob for a whole afternoon, and we both play into and off the kick drum about the same amount ;)
I sit high. More power for the kick