Five Drum Setups You SHOULDN'T Copy from The Greats
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- Опубліковано 10 тра 2024
- 3 Videos in 3 Weeks - the8020drummer.com/youtube-low
I get it. Kits in the '80s looked awesome. Tommy Aldridge. Simon Phillips. Neil Peart. Whether it was sky-high cymbals, subterranean throne heights, or practically-vertical rack toms, drum setups were ludicrous, and we loved it.
But, with advances in ergonomics, and (my theory) more people playing into old-age and paying attention to posture and mechanics, we're learning that a lot of those crazy, quirky setups of the '80s...weren't very good for your body.
How do I know? Even those guys don't play those ridiculous kits anymore.
For five tips to avoid repeating the mistakes of our drum heroes (when they were in their 20s), just watch.
Everybody: Oh, your stool.
Drummer: [screaming at a high pitch] IT'S A THRONE! IT'S MY THRONE! THIS IS MY KINGDOM!!!!!
That's exactly right!🤣😎
i dont care. its a chair
"a man who must say 'I am the king' is no true king" 😄
I call my "throne" my ass cushion, because calling it a throne makes me feel like I'm talking about a different kind of throne...
I guess with throne mainly being an Americanism, it came from when the drummer was the bandleader back in bigband times.
What about the guys in the 80's/early 90's where their cymbals were higher than most people's cocaine levels?
I cant do either of those techniques, lol.
They didnt make tall enough cymbal stands to compete with 80's 'cain levels.
Sounds like you have experience. : 0
It mention it in the description
Part of the reason cymbals were higher was for the microphones. Having the cymbals higher put them closer to the overhead microphones, and in turn the overheads could be turned up less and the drums would bleed in less. That wasnt always the case, but it was part of it
When I was young I had no concept about ergonomics. Now I'm pushing 60 and my body is a wreck. To the young guys: relaxation is everything.
Joseph Travis Alexander Technique👍🏼
I find it so hard to relax when I want to do a good job!
@@josephtravers777 -Thank you! I am just beginning at 48, but I am addicted😁. I appreciate the advice.
I'm 50 and have been playing as long as I've been alive and 35+ yrs as a professional. I've got arthritis in both my hands (thumb joints, trapezius) and the only thing that keeps me from ending up in mass amounts of pain is playing totally relaxed.
Protip- if you keep all your fingers on the sticks, you can grip looser as there's more surface contact between your hands and the stick. Also, the pinky is the strongest finger on your hand and it can add a bit of extra snap where you need it when you learn to correctly apply that technique.
@@BillRayDrums Thank you so much! 😊I will try it right now!
Boom stands: It's generally a good idea to point the boom in the same direction as one of the stand legs, when you can.
Boy howdy.
Well said, 100% true and helpful.
Or get a rack and don’t have any problems
When I see a guy with a rack system that he moves and sets up himself for club gigs I assume he’s a Guitar Center employee who can’t play much.
googlefuckedupyoutube I make more money than any guitar center employee, I just like racks because for years stands proved unreliable and I always ended losing stuff. The rack is quick and simple.
Lars Ulrich's setup in the late 80's ruined a lot of younger players who emulated the way he set up his kit.
Same with the video for Smells Like Teen Spirit
I think just Lars period has ruined a lot of young drummers
lars' posture is awful
Jeffrey Hyder fuck knows Lars couldn’t do shit on all those toms anyway.
And look how Lars is now 🤣
Great video.
As a pro drummer, and sports massage therapist in training, there are more issues than discussed here as to why seat hight and positioning is fundamental and also Hihat stand position. If your throne/seat/stool is too low your hip flexors can become too tight, as the knee is above the hips. Back problems can occur and a tendency to balance on your glutes, rather than having a more stable position with your feet, can occur. If your seat is too high you may stoop and become kyphotic (see Buddy Rich posture - terrible). Hihat stands on beginner kits are often put too far to the left, which can put the hips in an awkward position in abduction. If heel up technique is used damage to areas in the glutes (Piriformis for example) can occur. This is very painful and can induce sciatic nerve pain, also. The hihat position can also make the upper body rotate too far to the left and cause upper body issues, as the right hand comes across the body too far and the left arm is forced backward. Hard to explain, better to show.
Sounds like you need to invent the ergonomic drum throne!! Please do it soon.
It's so satisfying to hear you confirm some things I learned over time as a drummer, some of which no one even told me I just kind of realized on my own, or by watching other drummers
Nico McBrain’s toms come to mind. No one has seen him in 45 years.
ThemFuzzyMonsters hahaha yeah. he’s a great drummer but the way his drums are setup shows the opposite.
@Corn Fed dude calm down, it ever occur to you that travis just perfers his shit lower? why are you so angry, besides being a good person, barker is a really good drummer in the sense of writing, playing to the song, and staying on time
@Corn Fed first off, no, im not a fanboy of barker, im saying hes a good drummer, and second off, you dont need chops and shit to be a great drummer, you only need to be able to play to the song and have some creative drum parts, which he does both of those exceptionally well, as well as, he just has fun, which is something we should all think about first when playing the drums
@Corn Fed why are you so angry?
45 years? I guess you're counting his pre-Maiden years with Pat Travers and Trust.. I don't know what his setup was like when he was in those bands.
We might not have seen him in all those years but we sure have heard him!!!
An amazing example is Steve Smith. Compare his setup and form from the early-'80s with Journey to now. He's a completely different drummer--the efficiency of his new setup, his economy of movement, etc. To unlearn years of bad habits and still be that beastly of a drummer is truly inspiring.
His study w/ Freddie Gruber influenced that.
its amazes me how so many touring drummers made thier lives hard for years!!!
Mike Portnoy's throne is so high it's almost like he's standing at the kit like ol' Jimmy Phantom. His thighs are angled like K2's north face!
Ben Strout 😂🤣😂🤣😂
Ben Strout I worked at the venue for one of his NMB shows, he was a very short guy IRL so i assume that’s why
Yes. But who cares about Mike Portnoy anyway...
memzehni id venture to say a lot more people care about mike Portnoy than either of us lol
@@danieldegeorges9993 This is exactly what I totally don't care about. And now back to Elvin Jones....
As a teenager, I got a great seat directly to the right of the Buddy Rich band, and at the same level as his drum set. I noticed that his crash cymbals were at his eye level, and were pretty nearly horizontal, and he never had to reach to get them. When I got home, I leveled my cymbals, lowered them to eye height, and I've been setting them up like that ever since. No more reaching!
I only play with one cymbal so I extend the legs all the way out. It’s an insecurity thing.
get the sandbags!!!!
When i was young (i am 51) i hurt my hand during drumming and had to see a doctor. That doctor was a musician and he had a fellow drummer in his office who's back was hurting during drumming and that doctor wanted to see the drummer. So he told the drummer to visit his office with his throne. When that drummer sat on his throne, the doctor told that the drummer was sitting too low and told him how high his throne should be to get rid of his back problem and it was solved.
Make a video!
@@jacoblott1617 it's not rocket science, hip above knee.
I am 6’5 “ my setup is too spread apart to most other drummers, my cymbals might seem too high, but if I lowered them, they would be too low for me, I never copied anyone’s setup, you should set your drums to what is more comfortable for you and fuck what others think. Everyone seems to always be very quick to criticize when they don’t know anything...
just be shorter lmao
just be shorter lmao
just be shorter lmao
Just be shorter
Just be
I change my car more often than this dude changes his heads.
its a shared kit in a practise space
@@EpicStuffMan1000 He clearly isn't from New York 😁
It always amazes me how many different ways a house drum set can be setup; mostly all wrong.
You have a great non traditional delivery. Your narration is off beat and cool like a true jazz version of a more than average drum vlogger . Plenty of sincere deadpan insight. I just subscribed after watching many of your posts and aspire to better my drumming for starters by raising my throne!
THANKS for your effort in what you do well..
Something else to consider when setting up a boom stand : Make sure the boom extends over one of the legs if you can. This will help the stand from tipping over, especially if you have a heavy cymbal on it.
I was told by a metal drummer that the easiest way to build your double bass speed is to get away from the floor, and he was right. Being higher off the ground makes it way easier and more comfortable to kick with both legs as opposed to sitting way down like I was before. It also made doing fills feel more natural.
heel up is much easier with a higher seat height, toe/heel can work from lower.
Don’t forget Lars Ulrich in the 80s for the “Near Vertical Rack Toms”
That was just so people couldnt see him well enough to aim their beer bottles accurately.
Short guy on high drums. Same with Bobby Blotzer from Ratt.
Your snare and toms should be on the same basic plane.
Oz Media 😂😂😂
Tim Brown well not so much the rack toms and the snare, more like the snare and floor toms. The rack toms should be a little higher and slightly angled
You can watch videos of Dave Lombardo with Slayer and his Tom's are damned near vertical, even now with Misfits and ST.
Great tips. With cymbals on booms, I’d also make sure the cymbal centre was inline with one of the legs below rather than between legs.
I spent so much time getting the perfect set up and learning to tune, I never actually ended up getting good at playing lol
I'm not a drummer. I am a hack guitarist, and bass player who has a home studio. I totally appreciate these tips on how to properly set up a drum set! This is one of those "get it right at the source" kind of home recording pearls of great price. Thank you and keep them coming!! Just subscribed.
Super helpful, for all levels. Even after ummteen years of experience I still an experimenting w seat height, Tom angles, snare height etc... I really like your clear explanations and will share with my students. Know the rules before you break them...great advice
Thank you
Steve
Whenever I see a kit with crazy tom angles, the tom heads always have a ton of dents in them. It's very easy to dent the tom heads if you have them angled straight at you. Also, when they're angled like that, you can't get a good rebound off of them. Another thing is you have to lower your wrist to hit them squarely to get a good sound out of them (as the video mentions).
I used to be house drummer on several jam sessions here in the PNW; I don't have a "beater kit" and would just take my normal gig kit. It got to the point that I took off the tom adjust wingnuts and installed locking nuts that require a socket wrench to undo. Basically I had to "enforce good technique" on my kit.
When people complained I told them to raise the throne so they could get over the toms a bit more.
You can jam your wrist...very painful, slow to heal.
Totally disagree; check out Delta Empire channel, and see some toms that sing.
When I was a student at Berklee: my 1st instructor told me that I set my kit up "Wrong". He was an 80's Vinnie/Weckl acolyte and had his kit set with seat low w/ toms and snare at almost 60 degree angles, Crazy! I set my kit up pretty much the way you describe in the vid. Thankfully, he got a gig at Disney and left and my following instructor was much more, "Your kit should be set up to what's best for you, meaning what's the most comfortable and produces your best performance." He was a much better instructor, and better drummer. And, as you pointed out in your vid. Vinnie and Dave set their kits up much less drastically now.
Michael Kennedy May I ask who was that teacher? I went to Berklee as well!
And yeah, Vinnie and Weckl sit higher now, Vinnie actually speaks about back problems actually made him change from low sitting to higher sitting
The low seat and those power toms probably contributed to those unusual setups.
Hey man, thank you. I watch your videos a lot. Im an amateur, and have been for 25 years. Im also stuck in many 'ruts' as far as practice, set up, etc. Just wanted to say that i really appreciate these videos, and your approach to making them. Thanks again, keep it up.
Solid advice. I found that the set-up of my kit changed in subtle ways depending on my mood.
I’ve talked to Vinnie about him using a lower thrown in the 80s and he said it really started giving him knee problems and he started raising the throne to alleviate knee pain.
I heard Vinnie back then compared sitting low behind the drums to like driving a Formula 1 car.😁
I always adjust any new kit I get on in the opposite order, although my aim is the same: I make the rack tom as horizontal as possible and drop it low as possible without hitting the kick. Then I bring the snare up so it's almost level with the rack tom for ergonomic efficiency. Then I adjust my throne to the correct height relative to the snare. Floor tom matches the snare, then cymbals adjusted for ergonomic efficiency. Voila
I've been learning for a few years now, and I've been feeling more comfortable with the kit lately, so I've been experimenting with kit setups that I see many metal drummers use, as that is my end goal. Spencer Prewett, drummer of Archspire, recommends elevating the throne higher so you can use your hip flexors to power your bass strokes, so I've been trying that, and it makes speed easier, but I seen to have a bit more trouble with my heel-toe. I've also raised my snare a little more (and, of course, the high-hat) to try and minimize the difference in elevation between my rack toms and snare. Still need to figure out what to do about the floor tom (I'll probably just stick something under it) because it's a bit too low now, but otherwise my facility has improved as a result.
Liking the drum theme with the very subtle aviation background on these videos. Two great topics!
LOL, I did the whole sit as low as can be years ago after seeing Vinnie do it with Zappa. I thought it was so cool, I recall.Haha, Thanks
When I teach beginners, the second or third thing I always mention is posture. It's crazy how important it is and people just have no idea
It's among the first thing I instill in students. Posture and form. Learn from those aspects and everything else can collapse into place.
@@BillRayDrums totally agree!
Love the content! Very informative... I’ve been playing a long time but ur never too old to lean a new trick or 2
Another factor that I think should have been mentioned for beginners sake, was the distance from the throne to the drum set, because it can effect many things like drum rolls or kick resistance
Moral: set up the kit right and you can use proper mechanics and, ding!, it’s easier to play well. Simple, but super good reminder.
Alternate title: How to be a kick ass drum tech
Thanks dude. I've seen this so many times across gigs with rented drums, and also on rehearsal rooms. I always felt guilty for arranging toms in a different angle or rising the throne. And of course, fixing those things always improved my playing and posture. So no more guilt for me!
As an amateur returning to playing after literally decades removed from playing this posting is very informative and helpful.
When I started, I was influenced by Steve Jordan, Chris Parker, and Charley Drayton, Al Foster, etc. I put my cymbals way up high, not realizing that they did that for the on-camera mic setups. These days I set up with everything more or less level and slightly above waist level (ala Bill Bruford). It's much more comfortable. One thing you didn't mention is that amateur drummers often severely muffle their bass drums, while experienced players will play it either wide open or with very little muffling. When I play on a muffled bass drum it throws me off because I treat that voice like a timpani, where you strike and let it ring for the full value of the note, muffling for shorter notes.
Buddy Rich a lot times had his Hi-Hat about even with his snare, or lower, then again it was Buddy Rich
That’s mainly because he was playing traditional grip like a lot of those old timers. You need to have the snare angled away from you. For a really fucking crazy snare angle, check out Jose Pasillas from Incubus.
Also back then nobody made Hihat stands you could raise up high. Not like we have nowadays.
@@philanaemic I like the added closed High-hat cymbals idea under the ride,like Dave Garibaldi.
Despite playing cross handed, I set my hihat 1.5" to 2.5" higher than the snare, since I play with the snare fairly close and my hands don't cross at all.
@@philanaemic and for doing single handed rolls.
#3 made me think of something that would probably make a great video for music educators at the Jr. High through High School level.
When I was 14 years old I remember walking into my high school music room for the first time and being greeted with a set of original, non-reissue blue Vistalites. This is not a bad thing in and of itself. The problem arises when, upon closer inspection, you discover that said drums are still sporting the original, matching blue drum heads top and bottom on EVERY DRUM IN THE KIT.
If "vomit-inducing thud" is your idea of a great drum sound, my school and band director had surely discovered the pinnacle of this elusive sonic recipe of the Percussive Sages. It's all the more staggering when you realize that even if these drums came from the last production run before they were taken out of the lineup, the drum heads were 6 or more years old.
Even my first kit as a beginner, a 5pc blue sparkle with no identifying badges, tags, or stamps that could have been made by Ronco for all I knew, got new heads at least once a year via my first part time job which paid a princely $3.47 an hour.
And I know from experience that band programs in every city and state have practiced this form of drum abuse for as long as Drum Majors have been wearing oversized head gear, wielding their baton scepters, and inviting everyone to relocate their whistles to a permanent and particular orifice.
Very well explained, and I totally agree with your recommendations! Thanks and Blessings!
pro tip: line up your boom with one of the legs on cymbal stands to maximize overall balance.
My setup regarding heights evolved to be pretty similar to Ringo's. Throne a little higher than you recommend, rack toms low and fairly flat, floor tom up as close to the height of my rack toms *as reasonably* as possible. I keep my cymbals fairly low and I pull everything in as compactly as I can. The less distance I have between surfaces I have, the better. I basically like the kit to be laid out down below me rather than up in front of me. I think the reason you always encounter one lug on every snare badly out of tune might be related to this: when I first started learning drums, i encountered a lot of people and articles saying, tune the head, then detune one lug to prevent ringing. I've never agreed with that approach, but a lot of other people may have.
I've heard that "detune one lug" thing a lot, and I never liked the idea. I persevered with tuning right, and I don't have problems with ring or snare buzz now.
Top tips:
1) If your set up is causing you pain, then change it so it doesn't.
2) Ergonomics. Set up so things can be hit as naturally as possible.
Great points to the video. Something I would add about the tom angle (or really the angle of ANYTHING you may be striking) isn't only the correct positioning of your arm/wrist and the muscles you want to use to achieve efficiency, but the SOUND you are ultimately trying to get out of your instrument. Depending on your stick choice (weight/ tip shape/ wood type & density) you really want to be striking the surface at about 10 degrees, give or take. When you are striking at 45 degrees, or even 60 or 70, the angle doesn't allow the entire drum or cymbal to "give up" the full body of of its potential sound. Leaving you with a very thin musical experience. Now, IF THAT'S the effect you are looking for (which I utilize on occasion), that another thing all together. But as a general practice, its not hip... AT ALL.
A long time ago I remember the light going off in my head when I was struggling and realized it was my setup more than my skill. A bad setup makes everything more difficult, it can't be understated.
im pretty sure a good drummer on a janky kit sounds better than a bad drummer on a great kit but thats just me
@@jangobango2847 We're talking about setup as in where you place drums... not the quality of the kit.
And any given drummer will never get to be at his best, with a goofy set up while inexperienced, and learning.
I had a similar experience when I realized that I wasn't fully comfortable with the setup I'd used for years - and sitting behind my kit should be my home-field! The second mount tom just wasn't where I really wanted it to be, given the placement of the bass drum. I removed it and then I was much happier with how I could place the first tom and the ride cymbal and I was more comfortable all around. That has been my primary setup ever since. If I want two mount toms now I put them on a stand rather than off the BD.
Part of me now wonders what it would be like to go back to two mounts off the BD after all these years - or maybe even trying that Kenny Aronoff thing of mounting the smaller drum on the right, out of the usual order. Maybe someday....
I’d like to think he shot each scene in sequence like he shot a few lines in his studio than ran to the airport shot a few line than ran back and so on so forth
Pink Jay101 hang on - there’s another way? 🤣🤣😢
Once again, great vid, that’s absolutely coming from a pro. Your videos are spot on.
I think the most important thing is not giving in to the urge to set your kit up like the one of somebody you admire and find your own personal setup, even it doesn’t look as “cool” as you’d like. I’ve been playing since 2007 and had a Travis Barker/Aaron Gillespie inspired kit with super high cymbals for years (think huge Byzance cymbals set up perfectly horizontal on DW 9000 straight stands). The people from my regular drum shop told me that Meinl threatened to cut me off from how many broken crashes and Chinas I sent back under warranty. My saving grace was seeing Thomas Hedlund performing with Phoenix back in 2014. Same setup, except all the cymbals were super low. I magically stopped breaking everything! I eventually started playing with a funk band, slightly angling my rack tom, making use of the boom mechanism and slightly angling my cymbals too last year. I’ve accepted that I’ve been struggling to play this whole time because I was only going with what looked cool to me and it really hurt my playing over the years.
This guy sits down at a drum kit: "Hey, what amatuer was playing these drums before me? They're set up wrong."
Rehearsal room manager says : "David Garibaldi"
This guy: "oh, nevermind."
hahaha!
Great vid Nate. I’m 51 and just recently got my snare height high enough that I don’t strike my leg simultaneously, but also comfortable to play.
I just got a kit again for the first time in many years. after several days of playing. got some.mad bruises on my left thigh! 😂
Reece Godinet Yep! I hate that! I know guys with holes in all the pants from the hand hitting the leg all night!
@@meekoloco yeah I've had to change a fee things around. raised the snare height and trying to relearn my left arm rest position so I don't now rim shot every hit haha
Reece Godinet Now you’re on it mate!
why did it take so long to decide hitting youself in the leg was not great?
Thanks for the tips! My teacher had much shorter legs than I do, and of course, arms. I'm sure I'll be able to play MUCH more comfortably now, not to mention for a longer period of time. Yes, I'm always cracking myself in the knee when doing rimshots. Also, with the throne lifted and the toms tipped back, there should be a LOT less wrist fatigue. Looking forward to the new set up! Thanks!
Great video. Always learning. Thank you.
I've heard it's best to tune lugs in opposite pairs, rather than going around in a circle; stops the hoop from being bent.
That's only for squares who don't want their hoops bent. Damn :P
@@8020drummer Dear Sir, I'm an Art-Scientist trying to find THE MOST CREATIVE and INNOVATIVE "underground" drummers in America.... perhaps you could recommend any? (Lotta great drummers out there, but my goal is to push rock music 20 years forward. Destroying cliches and pushing music far ahead requires fellow innovators!)
Buy a nice throne.... that should be the first upgrade you make to your kit if you haven't already.
As you will see if you watch the Practice Space Pet Peeves episode, the kit is not mine. I keep mine safely in bags on the shelves, rather than expose it to the Tragedy of The Commons ;)
This is some of the best advice on this thread.
Bought a Gibraltar hydraulic throne with optional back rest, 🙌💯
Pork Pie makes a good one
A good throne was the last good thing I bought lol. I used a crappy CB throne most of my life. You are right though, a good throne should be one of the first things you should buy.
I would suggest using mounted toms that are traditional depths. 12x8, 13x9, they can typically be set up where they don't have to be angled that strangly. The longer deeper power toms are a joke when it comes to mounting on a bass drum, many have to be setup so weird just to get them to clear the bass drum that you have no choice, either they are angled too much or not at all.
As far as Garibaldi, YES, YES, YES. I know exactly what you are talking about.
That's great if you're the one buying the drums. Not so great if you have to share a kit :P
I had a student with a 24" bass drum and 12"x11" tom. I have somewhat long legs and sit high, and I still thought it was a nightmare to play on.
@@jc3drums916 I believe Tony Williams and Billy Cobham sit or used to sit pretty high on their 24inch BD kits. Check out Tony Williams here.ua-cam.com/video/uFCJs_WvsG4/v-deo.html
The Ferris Bueller of drumming here. Thats what it felt like watching lol. Excellent video!
The biggest error I’ve found is this : using deep tom toms atop the kick drum. Unless you’re 7 feet tall and can position your throne and snare WAY up, you’re going to have to position those toms at pretty extreme angles in order to strike the heads without lifting your arm 6 inches. And larger kick drums make the problem even worse. Best setup is a smaller kick drum (20” is my favorite because of the great punchy sound and the fact that I’m only 5’4) and shallower 10” and 12” toms.
As a Metal drummer- Throne height is an Interesting one:
Lower tends to allow for more power and more control at slow speeds for double bass runs. Whereas higher tends to promote playing more from the Ankle - allowing for more speed, but less power.
@MorbidManMusic it's more to do with which muscle groups are being used/activated.
Yeah the higher you sit the more power you should have because you can put more weight through your leg.
@@LesterBrunt Not necessarily. You're going to lift your leg only so high. If you're relaxed, and just lifting your leg and letting it fall, more bend in the knees and hips gives more power than a straighter leg. But of course, too much bend results in less power as well, so it's about finding the sweet spot. The idea of putting more weight into your playing, outside of the very occasional extra loud note, suggests all kinds of incorrect techniques to me.
That's why they make mics, amps, and speakers. Need more "power" (volume), twist a volume knob. Not your body.
Its all about finding that perfect balance. Balance being the key word. Heel up fast db runs make it hard to balance on a higher throne, but if you lower it too much...shin splints will keep you from walking for 3 days!
Excellent video! Thank you for the post.
missed opportunity for a “Mr. Rogers” ending 😂
Thanks Nate! always love your perspective!
I love this video and wish more young drummer would figure this stuff out earlier rather than later. At 6'4" I never had as much of a problem with needing to angle toms but I still don't like to do it. I have a Ludwig breakbeats kit and actually like to sit low on that one since I can set up that one up super low.
at 6'4" my biggest problem is many hihat stands not being quite tall enough
There's this crazy good drummer Damon Che who breaks literally all these rules - and likely more - but is still one of the best that I've seen/heard. He was the drummer for the band Don Caballero that was around in the 90s/00s. In summary, he sat low, the snare was literally as low and angled as possible, all the toms were angled, and the cymbals up way too high - not to mention they were all ride cymbals. And he also used the butt-end of marching sticks. Yet, he's one of the most virtuosic, talented, and even "smart" drummers I've seen.
Yep do what works for you ! Ain't no rules , Lombardo has his toms well angled in like Collins used to in 70s Genesis, this video makes me laugh a lot 🤗🙄
Love Don Caballero, and especially Che’s drumming. American Don is one of my favorite albums of all time.
@@Trynottoblink yep there's a hell of a lot of amazing session drummers out there that only folks into music would of heard of some of my personal favourite and forgive the spelling, are Stewart Copeland, Dave Weckl ,Manu Kache , Thomas Lang, Bernard pretty P, Jeff Percaro , Steve Gadd, personal influences probably Stew Copeland and Jeff Percaro , then again it's ones personal taste , even saw a guy recently who plays Drum and Bass live , the guys like a damn drum machine fast solid, groove users triggers and some electronic pads but can't remember his name, sure there's a drummer for everyone and I'm sure they all sing " I did it my way " 🤗😂 because there are no rules just enjoy being a musician 🤗🤗🤗 PS damn this predicted txt 🙄
Its not the setup that makes the drummer man. Its the dude
Also an aspect influencing our setups is the advertising images that are designed to display the drums not the ergonomics.
While tuning the heads if you mute the opposite head (mute the bottom head while tapping the top) then you'll get a better sound of which lugs are too tight or too loose.
All these points you make, I never could understand how anyone could play those ways. Even as a beginner, I couldn't stand when I would go to someones kit to find toms angled too far or stands that take up too much space. I always just thought it was my personality that made me want to draw in my stands feet. The things you mentioned have always just made sense to me.
There’s a lot of truth to this video. As my skills and musculature have improved, my setup has changed. I was an early adherent of the vertical ride cymbal & super low throne for years, but that stopped working for me as fast & accurate ride patterns became a necessary part of my playing. Also, my back started to hurt with the Vinnie-inspired positioning behind the kit. However, I’ve always preferred level rack toms. Too much tilt & they sound like crap!! One great recent development in drum design has been the widespread availability of 18” and smaller bass drums... this makes the proper tom position possible. Granted, YMMV especially for peeps of varying height & weight.
When appearing to be a great drummer is more important than actually being a great drummer.
That's What I Was Thinking It Sounds Like He Is Hitting Random Cymbals Or Toms Or Even The Snare I Feel Like I Could Do Better And I Haven't Even Played A Kit Before.
All mouth and no chops. No fashion sense either. Who the fuck sits at the kit with a cheesy shmedium T- shirt and pink daisy dukes? This dude does.
It's simple physics. You can rebound off of horizontal surfaces better than vertical.
I agree with a lot of what you've said But he clearly has a solid groove going.
@@mikel5163 go and watch them then.
Excellent! Excellent! Excellent snare drum tuning tips! I can still remember being in 6th grade and playing tympani in concert band. I couldn't get a good solid pitch out of one of the tympani. There were too many overtones or something like that. My band director told me to press firmly in the middle of the head. Problem solved. Thanks Mr. Bacon!
My buddy's rehearsal studio has been that way in regards to weird set ups, and terribly maintained kits that used to be in great shape. Snare strainer turned to maximum capacity, because the "drummers" that rehearse there have no clue how to adjust the snares and usually they think loose snares mean it's not adjusted, so they tighten it to max capacity. What you get is a biscuit tin sound with 3 cookies floating around in it, and eventually, a broken snare strainer. Great video lesson on how to adjust a kit 👍
If everyone was perfect we would all sound the same.
Ingleprop Noosegarm everyone would sound perfect dunce
This video sucks do wtf YOU want wanna angle your toms do it wanna low snare do that, people have no right behind the drumming police well apart from S Copeland and he broke a ton of the so called rules but is a technical genius and my main inspiration since I was 10 ,all about personal taste, and while I'm venting I HATE these BEST drummer ever, the average music fan will not of heard of the amazing session players only " stars from bands" and main thing is what ever floats YOUR boat and don't let anyone tell you that your wrong, just enjoy the music and chill FFS ❗ 🙄🤔🤗
I like the Dave Lombardo set up with the Toms at an angle. I've always played this way and cant stand a nearly flat tom...
Cool now that's what I like to hear 🤗 people that do WTF they want, ignore this idiotic video 🙄 there are no rules or things to make you look cool ,I showed this to a friend who does a lot of sessions esp reggae/ urban dance etc and he said just do what works for you , I have my snare pretty low NOT super impractical low but it's personal like having two high hats or double pedals , actually five as I copied T Lang but Lang and Copeland are my inspiration , just do what you like, I think it's great u angle your toms a LOT of folks do that
@@rikaardyyz3039 That's right bro!!🤘🤘
Agree with all these. I had to learn these lessons over time. I wish I had this video 25 years ago lol
I remember hearing that early (FZ era) Vinnie would chop his throne so he could sit even lower!... Literally cut it down!... It looked so cool - I did the same thing (I was in HS)!... I also remember seeing Gentle Giant back in the 70's - and I don't know who he was (not anyone I've seen drumming with them on youtube), who was super tall - and sat so super low... His knees were at his chest! The coolest thing I ever saw!! I took lessons from Tommy Campbell when I was at Berklee in the early 80's - and he was so tall - I couldn't even reach the cymbals sitting at his kit!!! ....To each his own!....
Have you ever hit your knee so hard with a stick that you have to stop to weep in pain. Happened to me alot when I was young
I loathe the 'excessive leg spread'...
It just screams, I don’t know what I’m doing...
I do it, HOWEVER, I justify it by having 4 cymbals on there!
There's nothing wrong with spreading the legs.
1901 - LOL! True!...I should have specified 'when setting up cymbal stands' ;o)
I’m still not getting why spreading the legs means anything. That might be the silliest pc of advise ever.
big pet peeve!
Remember the trend in the late 90's where people would have the low snare but tilted forward, like 25 degrees and you'd be playing on a downward angle? It seemed really odd to be so I never tried that... and I tried everything, I started with the Lars ridiculous set-up, then added the Alex Van Halen roto--toms... then stripped it back to the two high tom and floor... now back to the regular, forever-tested, regular kit.
I just checked out some pictures of Simon Phillips and in just about every picture his toms looked relatively flat. He fixed that; after watching your video of course.
What about orientation? For a really long time, i viewed myself as facing the bass drum, which led to alot of imbalance, and bad hi hat placement. Because you're body naturally faces in between the bass and hi hat, setting the drums up with this mindset leads to better ergonomics.
That's a rabbit hole, and it's gonna depend on body geometry and what's comfortable. For this video I wanted to address the BIG things :P
Agreed, I angle my bass away so that it's the same angle as my leg
Jim Reilly of Rascal Flatts sits facing the audience with his kick off to his right a bit and his tons directly in front of him. I personally have never tried to set straight with the kick. On a single setup it faces the audience and I'm angled slightly left. If im playing double kicks. They each face outward a bit and im facing straight ahead. To me, I feel that these two ways are more symmetrical and contribute to a better overall look for the band.
I like the wide spread though I really really hate overtight lugs..
When I suggest to my grandson to go flatter and higher, I say, "dude, your probably going to end up here anyway, so you might as well start now." lol after showing him bascs, and how to hear things differently and interpret licks, he's really coming along. The most important part is, he truly loves it and that is huge! Occasionally people would tell me things and I would pick up things, but I wish I would have had somebody like myself shortcutting me from having to figure everything out myself, but there's something to be said for that when it comes to carving out your own sound and style.
I've been to Thailand about 20 times. Always take my practice pad. It never leaves my suitcase. Respect your dedication sir
i expected something about travis barker's cymbals height
or mike mangini's
Cymbal companies love that setup, due to the higher propensity of breakage.
*muh cymbals bleed...*
Things records better as you get a bit less audio bleed when the toms/snare and cymbals/hi-hat are further away.
@@ThemFuzzyMonsters Yes, this is true and it opens the can of worms re: "Total isolation of each instrument for maximum clarity - vs - the entire shebang rumbling as one big gelatinous sonic pan of jello?"
A real drummer just sets up however they want and is comfortable with their style.
Curtis Arnbrister JR it really comes down to ergonomics my man. I think that’s all he’s trying to say. Setting up in a way that allows gravity to work for you is better in the long haul and is less apt to destroy your body so you have some longevity. I hear what you’re saying though, ultimately you gotta be comfortable in order to play well.
I still find the entire concept pretentious, but whatevs, my setup has sort of evolved over the years, but it's still the same animal basically.
A real drummer has an ergonomic setup that makes sense for his body. Even an amateur or a non-drummer can look at someone sitting at a set of drums and tell whether it looks like it makes sense.
I used to play with my thighs parallel to the ground because it was comfortable. As I got towards the end of my teens I was having way more back pain from playing than I thought should've been possible. I noticed I was slouching a lot while playing too, so I finally raised my throne up and it solved pretty much all of my problems. No more back pain, no more slouching, and I felt like I had a lot more control over my feet.
This is the first video I’ve seen on set up. It is excellent. I give the same advice to everyone I teach.
Besides stands, cymbal angle bugs the every living crap out of me.
what drives me nuts (inexplicably) is colored sticks. When I see a drummer playing black sticks (etc) it makes me want to stick knives into my eyes.
@@dumpygoodness4086 try out the activegrip promark sticks if you haven't yet. They're black but it's a coating.
Immediately thought of Damon Che.
Then again, it's Don fucking Caballero he's playing for, as if their music isn't weird enough
Me too!
One tip I heard from Dennis Chambers is to put your high time right in front of your snare and not at an angle. For me this was a tiny tweak that had a huge impact on my playing. I always had the high tom slightly to the right of the snare drum. Having it exactly in front allows for much more speed and comfort.
Good set up vid. Man it took me many years to figure out a lot of this stuff.
I used to hang my ride from the open joist in the basement with thin rope and a knot.
What you're calling lugs on cymbal stands are wing screws.
What's pedantic mean?
@@ollieoldsmobile2601 This video.
Great video with some absolutely valid points, I've been playing 43 years and still feel my seat high isn't perfect. Sometimes I set up an inch higher ( skinny butt ) sometimes an inch lower ( fat butt) ,like I said great vid however I feel the need to correct one small error ... Simon Phillips no longer positions his toms at such a crazy angle . During the late 80s & 90s yes but now for the last 10 years he sets the toms much flatter ,I guess we all make ergonomic adjustments as the years pass.
Thank you, this was a very useful video for me because I know almost nothing about setting up a drum kit.
HIGHER throne and you feel like a King.
Gene Krupe and Buddy Rich sat relativly high and both had back problems.
@@macvoutie buddy also had that almost signature forward/side slouch when he played. I could be totally wrong here but I've noticed this in myself and some others:
There's some variation in the way people play traditional grip. The old school way has a higher left hand when your shoulders are flat, which I would guess is why buddy leaned the way he did, to get his hands level. One of my old directors leans very similarly and plays old school trad. The more modern marching snare trad has both hands level with each other, and ends up with less shoulder lean in comparison because you're compensating with different angles in your left arm and wrist.
Usually you can compensate for that with an angle in the snare but it doesn't seem like that helped buddy much, so I guess he could have just had terrible posture.
@@jurassicturtle3666 I wouldn't go as far as to say that playing trad grip would necessitate sitting high. I will say no matter how high or low one sits, if one has to lean in over the drum set in order to play it that individual will have back problems.
@@jurassicturtle3666 I believe he came from that school of drumming where drummers did slouch excessively.
I play traditional pretty much 98% of the time, sit pretty low and grip has nothing to do with posture. Bad posture is bad posture.
@@BillRayDrums yes, I also play trad mostly and I dont sit with bad posture. But if you're not conscious of it it can happen. Buddy specifically leaned to his left side, so I'd venture to guess that his trad at least contributed to his posture
And I also wasnt saying grip contributed to how high or low you sat. Just that it's a technique that might cause you to lean to compensate for angles, depending on what angle you hold your left hand at.
It's like upright bass players who get back problems from leaning down to the right for decades.
This video is hilarious! There is no right or wrong way!
You're right Glenn, but there really is a more efficient way when you are talking about stamina and getting a really good sound.
I would agree that every drummer will have their own right and wrong way, but if the kit is set up to where you're straining yourself unnecessarily, or it's just not tuned, that's wrong.
I mean, you can have your hi-hat lower than your snare if you want, but I would never set up a house kit that way and expect drummers to not berate me.
I was at a Simon Phillips clinic last June and noticed that his setup has changed considerably....his toms no longer bear that extreme angle.....he plays his entire tom setup at a much "flatter" angle these days....I'm a short guy at 5'6" so I recently switched to a 18" kick so I can set up the toms somewhat lower with a more 'gentle' angle...my seat height is set at that 110 degree angle thing....works for me!...thanks for the video!
MrTwisster which, I think, underscores my point :)
@@ns81 Yes...it certainly does...it's never too late to tweak!!
Great vid. Wish I saw this 30 years ago. Being self taught, I just found what worked for me and went with it. I suspect Phil Collins used some unorthodox methods because his back is pretty junked out now.