my boat! LOL. My buddy James won that rewind raffle and decided it wasn't his cup of tea and kindly offered to me for what he paid. Love that RPM! Great video!
Very comprehensive follow up. Great for new(ish) paddlers to sort out what’s what… worthy or worthless. When you’re new to WW, you don’t know brands, models, what’s appropriate for you. Real easy to make a mistake buying the wrong boat. Buying a boat on Craigslist is pretty risky is you don’t know boats really well. I think it’s a good idea to check with your local WW schools/outfitters, who often have demos and used boats that come available after the season when they’ve got new models coming in to replace them. They’re typically not overplayed as beginners aren’t splatting every rock in the river. They’ll be honest as to whether a boat is right for you and other options you may not have considered. In 2020, when I started WW, couldn’t find a dang thing new or used. Felt fortunate the local WW school on the Potomac cut loose a used Alpha for me mid-season so I didn’t have to rent a boat for practices and could do stroke practice on my own time.
Hi Alex. I’m new to paddling. Tomorrow I’m driving from Albuquerque to Salida Colorado for a trip down Browns Canyon. I scanned Craig’s list this morning and came across a used Liquid Logic Jefe. After seeing your videos on buying used, I was convinced this was a good buy for $260. Plenty of scratches, which tells me the previous owner must have liked paddling it. The outfitting looks used, but no scratches or tears, except for the additional thigh paddling foam that was not original to the boat. The underside of the hull shape is nice with no oil canning or dips in it, it is well scratched, but the shape and lines are pristine. The cockpit is snug. I’m 6 ft, 170lbs. I would like the seat to be .5 to 1 full inch back, but I have some extra meat on my butt that I’ll be working off over the winter. The fit is snug, but feels great. the foot, knee and butt triangle feels like I’ll have no trouble with knee and hip steering. It feels very sporty. I feel like I got a really solid deal on this boat, and it’s going to haunt my dreams until I get it on the water. Thanks for your great advice. This deal happened because of your time and effort on these videos. , I would love to send pics but not sure if I can here Alex, sending zen to you Bro. Thank you soo much !!!
I think that's a super solid buy. The Jefe's are known for lasting a long time and are excellent for rock bouncing. If you get into big water you'll want to reconsider, but you're all set for now.
I picked up an Inazone as my first boat recently. You are the only person on UA-cam I have found to mention one. I was looking for ANY info on it or a review anywhere and couldn’t find anything. Would you review one!?
I just bought a dagger nomad 8.5 today for £200 in red and yellow that had a fair amount of use but was clearly well looked after with no heavy scratches and no welds and no debts with the original outfitting and a couple of float bags in good condition the only thing it was missing was a single washer on one of the nuts for the footblock.... great boat couldn't be happier especially for the price all the other nomads I saw second hand where £400-£450
I loved the Perception Lucid, is a weird crazy full slice for the bigger guy, although I was way too light for it!..surfed like a dream too... with Perceptions bomber plastic..Quite rare though!..great advice Alex!!
nowadays all the new Eskimo and Prijon boats come with pillars. so if you find a newer one (from the series, that are still produced) you dont have to worry about that. other than that, yeah, they are superbly tough. (the plastic they use is also higher quality, which is a benefit of the blow molding, that they get to use different plastic).
@@AlexBarham yeah, thats true. also Eskimo is only ever making some Saltos in batch every couple of years and other than that prijon isnt iterating as fast as other boat makers. with the blow molding they are much more limited as to how sharp the angles can be to put into a boat. what i do wonder though, talking about longer lasting boats n stuff here, has anyone ever tried making kayaks from carbon reinforced plastic like the paddles they make with carbon fibre in the plastic? (e.g. kober energy). because that is some stiff and tough plastic. kinda interesting how it'd do for kayaks.
A fairly common second hand kayak in the UK is the Liquidlogic flying squirrel. They are always cheap and I'm often tempted. I have no experience with these boats so I've never pulled the trigger. What are your thoughts, are they one to avoid or worth a punt?
Man, I shop FB everyday, and jump on CL now and again, and I'm surprised if you're still seeing many steals on classics (e.g. Session for $150). I find these in Ohio/adjacent occasionally from non-ww boaters, but now everyone is on to those. And let's face it, there's just not as many early 2000s gems out there anymore. I didn't start this adventure until '19, but I saw the pricing shift from then until mid-late '20 into '21. So, I'm not cranky old school guys, but it seems everyone, no matter how crappy it is, throws their junk boats out for $300. And some how the RPM market got set at $400 which is probably why I'll never own one (would happily take $150 rpm). Anyway, I credit you with being a notable voice in my learning process on boat design as well as playing a big role in moding a Forplay and Centrifuge I picked up (not a horseshoe fan, and I get to support John Su in my parts buys). Cheers and thanks
Patience is key. Unless it is a hot one I am going to sit back and let them stew until I think I can get them to take a lower offer. Most people value the garage space over the money at the end of the day
Spot on about current pricing (for both new and used, imo.) Unfortunately, this puts a much greater pause on the trigger of used imports. Why spend $200-$500 less than retail only to lose warranty and or put the difference in gas &/or time to pick up your purchase? At the same time $1400-$1800 for a boat - I’m left hoping new designs don’t come out for 5-7 years (sorry Ripper.)
Good morning, Thoughts 💭…. Large code or burn3 xl. Have the code but only pool session time in it so far. Going to pick up the burn 3 in a couple of days. You have paddled both, what’s your 2 cents. Thanks 🙏🏻
Honestly I am very confused as to how you got into this position, but if you own the Large Code and you aren't sinking it then there is no reason to buy a Burn XL. The Code is amazing as a generalist and will outclass the Burn every way.
@@AlexBarham I bought the code used end of last season. Job change has restricted me to get out on river yet. Thinking the burn has a little more play with the edges than the code. I’m looking to get a one boat quiver as my water time next few years will be very limited. Paddling mostly fire Brook , Crystals and TVille on the Farmington.
I’m 220 as of this moment and 5’11”. This will be second season paddling and I’m trying to get what might maximize my limited time on water. If the code fits that bill better than the burn 3 then I stick with that. But if the Ben offers a little my to the table then that’s an option.
Really comes down to two things: - Boat construction - Is there a solid pillar maintaining contact with the hull? - User error - Is the boat being stored or transported improperly? (Strapped down super tight on a really hot day)
I picked up a nano for 200 bucks a couple years ago . I mistakenly thought it was a pyranha nano he was selling and it wasn’t until I started UA-cam Ing Nanos that I came across your video where you outfit that black one for your friend and I had to laugh at myself because I completely forgot that this guy used to paddle for Eskimo. Needless to say I sure did like the boat but man I can’t get over that little weird paddle shaped gunnel in the hull that creates that bump of a ridge on the inside and there’s not a whole Lotta room to Pad it out anymore .could be that I’m 6 foot with size 12 feet . I definitely had to modify a pillar, because yeah, that thing just collapses and contours around your body anytime you drop the bow or stern. And funny enough later that year, I picked up the pyranha nano. For 300 ……You’re probably too young to had seen the show Mork and Mindy from way back in the 70s with Robin Williams. He’s an alien that wears a red and silver suit which happens to be the exact color of my boat and his catchphrase was Nanu Nanu .
@@AlexBarham oh, I have no problem with that thing becoming decorative wall art in the corner. I definitely would like to get him one of those nova’s. I’m also wondering what Waka is going to produce I heard they’re working on some new prototype and I’m a Puffy Steez lover.
You should have went more in-depth about the various plastics- why do the older Perception boats STILL kick ass today- the super linear plastic maybe? Why are the older Wavesport boats still alive and kicking? cause crosslink works? I picked up a beater Y for a beginner BECAUSE of the bomber crosslink plastic. HTP is amazing but the availability, price, HORRIBLE older boat outfitting and yes the numbers of holes they put in them...and lets mention not all HTP is the same- Two-tone Eskimo boats should be avoided at all costs!
I'm not a materials engineer, so I don't have a lot of insight as to why. Even so, material engineers aren't getting paid to study how the products age over decades, they are usually just trying to make a product survive to the end of a warranty period.
Honestly you can see my depth of knowledge here for the brands I can get a hold of. The fact that I made this error says a lot about the presence of Eskimo and Prijon in the states. I've gone so far as reaching out to both to try and get them some visibility here, but no luck.
@@AlexBarham dont worry about it too much , im from eu and even for me prijon slice is a rare sight sometimes i wonder if for prijon, the whitewater segment is only a side business (nowdays), main one being seakayaks (even the footage you had was from a seakayak) who knows, (i kinda wanna see them make a modern creeker, something in the bracket of DRX and code) speaking of that, maybe thats why they dislike it so much, the constant need for new and improved models whitewater kayakers want new designs, after 6 years its an old boat, but for seakayakers the 6 years old model year isnt as much of a difference in performance since flat water coefficient of drag is easier to model on computer once and be done with, than all the all the irregularities of flow in ww, and boofing and surfing, and vave trains, and skip out features etc (just a wild guess since i dont seakayak, but i've heard the seakayakers are bigger demographic than whitewater) i guess it was a choice they had to make either make every model in 3 sizes, and design new ww boats every other year, huge cost to tool up with molds, and company dies because sales cant keep up with tooling cost or only a few new ww kayaks per decade not to loose segment & die hard fans, and the kayaks that they choose to design are a safe bet subcategory ( river runner, creeker and only recently a halfslice once the ripper and all the others proved itself first) + majority of production into sea kayaks, where retooling is less often and more people buy them, since its more suitable to middle aged demographic newcomers with enough finances to buy new boats ooooo im sorry, i got too far with typing... best regards
my boat! LOL. My buddy James won that rewind raffle and decided it wasn't his cup of tea and kindly offered to me for what he paid. Love that RPM! Great video!
Can I get in on that deal when you're done with it!?
@@AlexBarham u got it!
Sick! It would be super cool to unite them, even if it is as wall hangers
@@AlexBarham right on!!
Very comprehensive follow up. Great for new(ish) paddlers to sort out what’s what… worthy or worthless. When you’re new to WW, you don’t know brands, models, what’s appropriate for you. Real easy to make a mistake buying the wrong boat. Buying a boat on Craigslist is pretty risky is you don’t know boats really well. I think it’s a good idea to check with your local WW schools/outfitters, who often have demos and used boats that come available after the season when they’ve got new models coming in to replace them. They’re typically not overplayed as beginners aren’t splatting every rock in the river. They’ll be honest as to whether a boat is right for you and other options you may not have considered. In 2020, when I started WW, couldn’t find a dang thing new or used. Felt fortunate the local WW school on the Potomac cut loose a used Alpha for me mid-season so I didn’t have to rent a boat for practices and could do stroke practice on my own time.
All solid beta right here!
Hi Alex. I’m new to paddling. Tomorrow I’m driving from Albuquerque to Salida Colorado for a trip down Browns Canyon. I scanned Craig’s list this morning and came across a used Liquid Logic Jefe. After seeing your videos on buying used, I was convinced this was a good buy for $260. Plenty of scratches, which tells me the previous owner must have liked paddling it. The outfitting looks used, but no scratches or tears, except for the additional thigh paddling foam that was not original to the boat. The underside of the hull shape is nice with no oil canning or dips in it, it is well scratched, but the shape and lines are pristine. The cockpit is snug. I’m 6 ft, 170lbs. I would like the seat to be .5 to 1 full inch back, but I have some extra meat on my butt that I’ll be working off over the winter. The fit is snug, but feels great. the foot, knee and butt triangle feels like I’ll have no trouble with knee and hip steering. It feels very sporty. I feel like I got a really solid deal on this boat, and it’s going to haunt my dreams until I get it on the water. Thanks for your great advice. This deal happened because of your time and effort on these videos. , I would love to send pics but not sure if I can here Alex, sending zen to you Bro. Thank you soo much !!!
I think that's a super solid buy. The Jefe's are known for lasting a long time and are excellent for rock bouncing. If you get into big water you'll want to reconsider, but you're all set for now.
I picked up an Inazone as my first boat recently. You are the only person on UA-cam I have found to mention one. I was looking for ANY info on it or a review anywhere and couldn’t find anything. Would you review one!?
Sorry man, I am not going to be reviewing every old school boat. Thanks for watching!
I just bought a dagger nomad 8.5 today for £200 in red and yellow that had a fair amount of use but was clearly well looked after with no heavy scratches and no welds and no debts with the original outfitting and a couple of float bags in good condition the only thing it was missing was a single washer on one of the nuts for the footblock.... great boat couldn't be happier especially for the price all the other nomads I saw second hand where £400-£450
Yeah that is definitely a steal. Especially if it has contour!
Yeah man it has its nice and comfy
I loved the Perception Lucid, is a weird crazy full slice for the bigger guy, although I was way too light for it!..surfed like a dream too... with Perceptions bomber plastic..Quite rare though!..great advice Alex!!
Thanks! Yeah the Lucid was an odd one with the built in handles and everything. Haven't tried one though
I am so suprised how cheap used boats in the us are compared to germany. Thats rediculus.
Well so much of the industry is based here, and people tend to come in and out of hobbies over here which creates more supply.
Informative and fun video. Thanks Alex.
Glad you enjoyed it!
nowadays all the new Eskimo and Prijon boats come with pillars. so if you find a newer one (from the series, that are still produced) you dont have to worry about that. other than that, yeah, they are superbly tough. (the plastic they use is also higher quality, which is a benefit of the blow molding, that they get to use different plastic).
Fair enough. Good luck finding one used!
@@AlexBarham yeah, thats true. also Eskimo is only ever making some Saltos in batch every couple of years and other than that prijon isnt iterating as fast as other boat makers. with the blow molding they are much more limited as to how sharp the angles can be to put into a boat.
what i do wonder though, talking about longer lasting boats n stuff here, has anyone ever tried making kayaks from carbon reinforced plastic like the paddles they make with carbon fibre in the plastic?
(e.g. kober energy). because that is some stiff and tough plastic. kinda interesting how it'd do for kayaks.
Really enjoyed this one and last one
Thanks Josh!!
"this is a great opportunity to get two birds stoned" 😂😂
Things you pick up in Canada lol
A fairly common second hand kayak in the UK is the Liquidlogic flying squirrel. They are always cheap and I'm often tempted. I have no experience with these boats so I've never pulled the trigger. What are your thoughts, are they one to avoid or worth a punt?
Definitely pass on those. They just didn't come out right. A better similar option would be a Jefe Grande
Man, I shop FB everyday, and jump on CL now and again, and I'm surprised if you're still seeing many steals on classics (e.g. Session for $150). I find these in Ohio/adjacent occasionally from non-ww boaters, but now everyone is on to those. And let's face it, there's just not as many early 2000s gems out there anymore. I didn't start this adventure until '19, but I saw the pricing shift from then until mid-late '20 into '21. So, I'm not cranky old school guys, but it seems everyone, no matter how crappy it is, throws their junk boats out for $300. And some how the RPM market got set at $400 which is probably why I'll never own one (would happily take $150 rpm). Anyway, I credit you with being a notable voice in my learning process on boat design as well as playing a big role in moding a Forplay and Centrifuge I picked up (not a horseshoe fan, and I get to support John Su in my parts buys). Cheers and thanks
Patience is key. Unless it is a hot one I am going to sit back and let them stew until I think I can get them to take a lower offer. Most people value the garage space over the money at the end of the day
Spot on about current pricing (for both new and used, imo.) Unfortunately, this puts a much greater pause on the trigger of used imports. Why spend $200-$500 less than retail only to lose warranty and or put the difference in gas &/or time to pick up your purchase? At the same time $1400-$1800 for a boat - I’m left hoping new designs don’t come out for 5-7 years (sorry Ripper.)
I think a lot of people just wish they would keep making the oringinal Ripper lol
Good morning,
Thoughts 💭….
Large code or burn3 xl. Have the code but only pool session time in it so far. Going to pick up the burn 3 in a couple of days. You have paddled both, what’s your 2 cents. Thanks 🙏🏻
Honestly I am very confused as to how you got into this position, but if you own the Large Code and you aren't sinking it then there is no reason to buy a Burn XL. The Code is amazing as a generalist and will outclass the Burn every way.
@@AlexBarham I bought the code used end of last season. Job change has restricted me to get out on river yet. Thinking the burn has a little more play with the edges than the code. I’m looking to get a one boat quiver as my water time next few years will be very limited. Paddling mostly fire Brook , Crystals and TVille on the Farmington.
I’m 220 as of this moment and 5’11”. This will be second season paddling and I’m trying to get what might maximize my limited time on water. If the code fits that bill better than the burn 3 then I stick with that. But if the Ben offers a little my to the table then that’s an option.
I would leave it alone for the time being. The Code is very popular so you will not have an issue selling it in the next year or so.
As for a one boat quiver, look towards a bigger half slice like the Steeze, or Antix 2 Large
Is oil canning really a big problem ( experienced beginner lol) ? I got bought machno with a little pop in the bottom
Really comes down to two things:
- Boat construction - Is there a solid pillar maintaining contact with the hull?
- User error - Is the boat being stored or transported improperly? (Strapped down super tight on a really hot day)
I picked up a nano for 200 bucks a couple years ago . I mistakenly thought it was a pyranha nano he was selling and it wasn’t until I started UA-cam Ing Nanos that I came across your video where you outfit that black one for your friend and I had to laugh at myself because I completely forgot that this guy used to paddle for Eskimo. Needless to say I sure did like the boat but man I can’t get over that little weird paddle shaped gunnel in the hull that creates that bump of a ridge on the inside and there’s not a whole Lotta room to Pad it out anymore .could be that I’m 6 foot with size 12 feet . I definitely had to modify a pillar, because yeah, that thing just collapses and contours around your body anytime you drop the bow or stern. And funny enough later that year, I picked up the pyranha nano. For 300 ……You’re probably too young to had seen the show Mork and Mindy from way back in the 70s with Robin Williams. He’s an alien that wears a red and silver suit which happens to be the exact color of my boat and his catchphrase was Nanu Nanu .
I can't believe you're getting size 12s in there! That is cramming into a boat for sure
Oh and definitely too young lol
@@AlexBarham yeah, probably comes from being from that era where taking discomfort was expected
Well do yourself a favor and stay far away from the Nova then. You wouldn't want that to be ruined for you
@@AlexBarham oh, I have no problem with that thing becoming decorative wall art in the corner. I definitely would like to get him one of those nova’s. I’m also wondering what Waka is going to produce I heard they’re working on some new prototype and I’m a Puffy Steez lover.
Looks like your Liquidlogic wish came true ;-)
Wasn't the hardest thing to predict, but happy it is happening!
You should have went more in-depth about the various plastics- why do the older Perception boats STILL kick ass today- the super linear plastic maybe? Why are the older Wavesport boats still alive and kicking? cause crosslink works? I picked up a beater Y for a beginner BECAUSE of the bomber crosslink plastic. HTP is amazing but the availability, price, HORRIBLE older boat outfitting and yes the numbers of holes they put in them...and lets mention not all HTP is the same- Two-tone Eskimo boats should be avoided at all costs!
I'm not a materials engineer, so I don't have a lot of insight as to why. Even so, material engineers aren't getting paid to study how the products age over decades, they are usually just trying to make a product survive to the end of a warranty period.
You kinda skipped by the biscuit is it a good spud boat if you can get it for the right price?
For the price you could get a Project, Project X, Mobius, Jed, Allstar, Rockstar etc
Me, with size 8.5 shoes, looking at Inazones now: 😲😲😲
You'll want to consider a new seat, but have at it!
modern prijon boats have foam pillars
Fair enough! I was thinking of the Delirious and other old school slices.
@@AlexBarham yes about that you are very correct, if its older then 10 years, chances are, it probably doesnt have pillars
Honestly you can see my depth of knowledge here for the brands I can get a hold of. The fact that I made this error says a lot about the presence of Eskimo and Prijon in the states. I've gone so far as reaching out to both to try and get them some visibility here, but no luck.
@@AlexBarham dont worry about it too much , im from eu and even for me prijon slice is a rare sight
sometimes i wonder if for prijon, the whitewater segment is only a side business (nowdays), main one being seakayaks (even the footage you had was from a seakayak)
who knows, (i kinda wanna see them make a modern creeker, something in the bracket of DRX and code)
speaking of that, maybe thats why they dislike it so much, the constant need for new and improved models
whitewater kayakers want new designs, after 6 years its an old boat, but for seakayakers the 6 years old model year isnt as much of a difference in performance since flat water coefficient of drag is easier to model on computer once and be done with, than all the all the irregularities of flow in ww, and boofing and surfing, and vave trains, and skip out features etc
(just a wild guess since i dont seakayak, but i've heard the seakayakers are bigger demographic than whitewater)
i guess it was a choice they had to make
either make every model in 3 sizes, and design new ww boats every other year, huge cost to tool up with molds, and company dies because sales cant keep up with tooling cost
or
only a few new ww kayaks per decade not to loose segment & die hard fans, and the kayaks that they choose to design are a safe bet subcategory ( river runner, creeker and only recently a halfslice once the ripper and all the others proved itself first)
+ majority of production into sea kayaks, where retooling is less often and more people buy them, since its more suitable to middle aged demographic newcomers with enough finances to buy new boats
ooooo im sorry, i got too far with typing...
best regards