What really was Eddie Van Halen's Brown sound Part.2 - A deeper dive into the JBL speaker myth.
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- Опубліковано 13 сер 2023
- Join me, guitarist Martin Smith for a half hour deep-dive down the Brown-Sound rabbit hole. Special features include how to hold your pick and how to mic your speakers like Edward Van Halen.
/ martinsmithguitar
🔥🔥🔥🎸🎯 This was so freaking fun to watch! Woo! Great job ! A perfect UA-cam video that makes us feel like we entered the VH time machine . ⏳️🎸
Ah, awesome cheers! Makes it worthwhile 🤘🤘
Forget Pete and Jim; THIS IS THE TONE.🙏
Absolutely love that Strat!
it’s really remarkable just how unbelievably close this is. it sounds like i’m hearing it directly out of his rig. absolutely nuts
Glad you dig it man. 🤘🤘
What people really miss about Van Halen is he played with his brother for so long that they had a great chemistry and creativity and put the time into perfect in the sound and well,, it worked… Massively… Keep on rockin
A lot of people don't take into consideration, that you will not get the recorded sounds without post processing, there is just no way. I don't remember who it was, but someone who was in the studio with Ed when they were recording said, that when you were in the live room with Ed's amp and cabs, it sounded quite different than in the control room through the mics, Compressors, EQ's, the console, and finally the studio monitors.
So.. I really appreciate the approach of you explaining, why you think the tone might have sounded darker on that album or on that song, etc. But if i would have to guess, it wasn't really because of Ed's rig that changed or any of his components, but rather, because the producer or the engineer thought made it that way, signal chain wise after the speakers (so in post process).
I agree. A big piece of the sound came after the guitar rig. Of course Ed was the most important part.
Excellent point and most likely why recapturing his tone is so difficult. Hands have a lot to do with it as well.
Hey, thanks. Totally agree, it’s a sum of the parts. Some parts make more difference than others and some are less known than say, the variac. Cheers for watching 🤘
Wrong , listen to recordings of Eddie in 1978 and you will find his live sound is identical to the sounds on the first album . Eddie always said if I can't reproduce the sound live than what's the point . That's why Eddie used very very few effects compared to his peers. Go listen to VH at the Hammersmith Odeon to see for yourself .
@@2216sammy Listen to the isolated room mics of eruption and other leaked tracks.
Thanks for this Martin. Also, those early VH records had Edward loving our left ear. I know he changed that later but having mostly dark guitar reverb and just a few overdubs in the right ear was such a big part of the early brown sound. We probably have Ted and Don to thank for that decision in the studio.
Totally! It left you space to ponder his place in the universe!
I think I once read that Ed actually *hated* that!
@@joshuafreedman7703 he did. But it caught on, despite his initial reservations. I think a few
Eddie said he and Don would record it and get it to sound exactly how they wanted and then gave it to Ted and he always f*d it up. 😂 Eddie gave him "credits" on 1984 but was really just he and Don. After that record Ted was out.
@@Vandelay--Industries they had a good run with Ted. He was at the helm for their best material.
Thank You for your research. Finding out about Angus Young and how he used the Shaffer Vega wireless in the studio (Back in Black) and what that did for his sound shows how a few subtle details can be game changers for TONE.
Yes indeed. The SV system might be subtle but when you’ve had 40 yrs listening to these classics, you can hear all the subtleties. It’s very likely Ed use SV wireless in the studio on VH2 and beyond. Good call.
To me, EVH tone sounds different on every album.
I think his attack, the way he would voice chords, use gain to sustain chords, add vibrato to a chord, use feedback to sustain chords, and the way he would mute particular strings, or pull chords with the fingers of his right hand are inseparable elements in the creation of his tone. Also the way he would control the gain often with his volume pot.
Both Sammy Hagar and Steve Lukather testified that after using EVHs rig they still sounded like themselves.
I think that Marshall heads or even Marshall combos with some good pedals are the key, but really the musician himself is the other. Martin Smith has the right chops - he does a great EVH play.
….And use of sweetened tuning….and use of effects
This is true, but the "Brown Sound" refers to a very specific period of tone
@@johnward3874 Just a half-step down for tuning as far as I know!
Thats true...most people want the first album sound. Didn't like the later live sound, or the musicman Wolfgangs
it’s really is nice to see people continue after the pete thorn video. it just wasnt good enough for me. you are so right about there being more “distortion” than all the tests we’ve heard so far. it’s always 80-90 percent there…
I discovered the importance of locking down the strings at the bridge after realizing the locking nut alone didn’t solve the out of tune issues alone. I knew about those locking saddles, they’re cool but a little expensive. I invented a locking system built into the BLOCK, locks down your strings like a Floyd Rose. No cutting strings either. It works with any standard bridge, on PRS bridges and 2 point Strat bridges too. I have 5 guitars using these blocks, seen on my TremDoctor channel. My Mexi Strat does not use a Floyd Locking nut and stays in tune and I’m a heavy trem user. Don’t forget to use PRS screws on any 6 point Trem, HUGE DIFFERENCE.
Dude your research is amazing and it sounds like Van Halen best I’ve ever heard anyone try to get that tone, amazing play too! Thanks for sharing your input
Appreciated man.
R.I.P Edward Lodewijk Van Halen
That chord growing sound you are speaking of @5:18 is what i call "Bloom". You hit a Chord or note and after it first sounds it gets bigger.
That’s the word! Bloom! 🤘
The term you're looking for is sag
@@lolxd7753 No not in this case. "SAG" is how loose/rubbery the feel of the amp's response is and what we are talking about is the sound getting bigger after the initial pick attack. Bloom is the correct term for this.
I want more Van halen tone playing from you, I love it, it's like ASMR.
Nice! More coming 🤘
I think there is a clip in that newly unearthed 1984 Donnington footage of Alex setting up the mics on a cab himself. One off-axis and one on.
Well, Ed was yes. Blew me away to see my guy bend down before he was gonna blow the place away, making sure he liked the look of the mic angle. If you see two mics you have a keener eye than me, I only saw one but I’d like to know now! Cheers for that 🤘
Just for the 1% possibility.I used to work at Dr Music where Edward shopped.I went on a "special" trip to the valley (forget the store) around '80 to pickup 2 JBL's.I was never told they were Eds but I never saw them again because we didn't sell them.....2+2=
More good stuff my man. I think the one, and most often overlooked aspect of Eddie’s tone, was his speakers. His very earliest sounds were using G12M 20 speakers with the paper voice coils. The early brown sound comes from feeding 100 watts into only 80 watts of speakers. They were on the verge of exploding and often did as those paper formers were famous for catching on fire! It would be interesting to hear you try and simulate that some how. Obviously, doing it with original greenbacks would be quite expensive! Eddie often talked about things sounding best when they were on the verge of blowing up!
I have an old 20 watter in a 1x12 cab… might have to break it out and… break it 🤘
@@martinsmith4123 nice! I think you’ll find your tone there! Nobody has been willing to use one of those since they are so valuable. Although, it might be better using a newer Chinese model. Back in 77 those cones were still stiff. The older cones sound different. It’s really hard to replicate those pulsonic cones as they were when new unless you get a mint condition speaker with low hours! Nothing sounds as good and that’s probably the one thing missing with anyone trying to replicate Ed’s brown sound! Huge difference between a paper and ceramic voice coil former! I own four old 20’s with paper formers and they sound phenomenal!
I agree with you. Speakers and mic management during production. Don Landee is so important in the recipe. Aside from Ed’s touch, feel, pickups and amp alterations.
@@slickfrictionlesswhere did you get ceramic voice coils, no such thing.
You brought up some great points I'm going with you on this one !!!! The mic thing seems to be a more logical situation to me !!!
🤘🤘🤘
Thanks, didn't know that about his picks
A great vid, it really reminded me how much those riffs meant to me on vinyl and cassettes back then.
Plus - as with Hendrix - Eddie seemed like a natural wonder, a league of his own who was born like that.
Thus it's nice to see that a lot of thought and prep went into the best tones.
UA-cam
These guys seemed to have done their homework for an early 80s sound.
Well said. I agree. Eddie was a natural wonder indeed, and I'm so glad I got to be alive as a kid when he exploded onto the scene. Exciting times!
It must have been tough for E to balance his natural humility with this alien ability - love this Martin all the more because it’s so very close
I don't think anything Eddie did was difficult for him at all, look at that smile when he's jamming!!
So true. To be changing the guitar world and manage to stay humble. Double genius. 🤘🤘
First things first : Your videos are absolutely AWESOME and fun to watch. Great VH input for sure. Big Thanks for that !Besides Pete Thorn you mentioned a Jim … Who is this guy ? Greetings from Germany 🇩🇪
To get the brown sound at home or on a budget, try using: any modern Marshall (all controls set to 7) and any overdrive pedal (set with high volume and low gain). You can add in more grit and sparkle by using a delay pedal with an input volume (such as a Space Echo or Memory Man) and/or an EQ pedal with a gain function. I'd also suggest using a replacement pickup such as a Dimarzio Super Distortion or 36th Anniversary PAF, or Seymour Duncan Custom Custom or Alnico II. Don't forget to tune to E flat!
Any Marshall and a Boss SD1 will take you there, if you have good speakers also important
@@cliffords2315It certainly will! The SD-1 is a classic pedal. I recommend setting the volume at 8, gain on 2 and tone at 1. This will sound shit through a clean amp. The amp should be nicely distorted (everything set at 7, or 5). Another good one to use like this is the TC Electronic Spark Mini (set between 3 and 5) or, for more options, an EQ pedal with the vol/gain boosted. Add a touch of reverb and that's it: there, or thereabouts! For what it's worth, my opinion is that the Colorsound Power Boost is the best sounding overdrive but all of them can get you there. I used an early 90s Marshall JCM 900 50w (with a THD Hotplate) through a 4 x 12 cab and a recent Marshall DSL 5w with a 10" speaker and the results were very similar
You are not wrong! Marshall+SD-1will definitely get you into that territory. But as someone who has played a SD1+JCM 800+Greenback cab for half of his life I notice a distinct difference to the VH tone, especially VH1. The old Marshall will actually get closer without any boost but VH1 has a special something on top.
@@ltxr9973Besides using an SD-1, I've had great results using an EQ pedal and a Spark mini boost. The secret for me is that the sound has to retain the top end and not let the gain overpower it
I'm probably the odd guitarists out but I think Ed's best tone was with the block letter Peavey 5150...As soon as my music store got one in the early 90's and I plugged in, I bought it!! Bottom end that will blow your head off!!
It’s great but very different to what is generally referred to as the brown sound. Way more gain and whomp. 🤘🤘
I agree 100%...Just a personal preference...I grew up and started learning to play back in about 86...The Marshall's were cool and i like the pre 5150 tone but my ear loves the extra gain and that ass kicking bottom end..No offense to anyone, its a personal preference..I always thought Marshall's had too much mids and lacked that bottom end kick in the ass...but thats my ear, whats left of my hearing 🤣🤣...In my opinion Ed's tone was killer on the F.U.C.K. tour...But like i say, just my ear...I have a Marshall that still gets cranked to piss of the neighborhood 😂😂😂😂@martinsmith4123
Another fine dive! Good job man.
Man I love these videos. Can’t get enough! You are straight up awesome. Thanks for this 🙏🏻
When I was a kid in the 80s I had a poster from a guitar mag with picks from many players. I remember Eddie having the thinnest pick out of the 50 or so they had listed. It convinced me to use thin picks and strings for years.
These days I use 1mm picks and 10-46 strings :D
Amazing video Martin :)
I think I speak for a lot of people here by saying that we would love to have an I.R of the cab you use for these EVH videos and would love to pay a bit of $ to have that !!
I have no idea how to make one but I’ll Google it. I prob have the kit. Cheers 🤘🤘
Once I was fixing a marshall 6100 from England. I'm in the usa. I ran it for a second on 120 volts ac, and of course this amp wanted 230 volts ac, as it was a not for export model. The result was a an EXTREME variac effect. I still think running the amp at 85-90 volts is part of it. You're doing a terrific job of nailing the tone though! Thanks for the vid!
Thank You for this I've always wondered about the export voltage in regards to amps. Also the 50hz vs 60hz. (I mean it makes lams blink, does it have an affect on tone? )
@@user-xs6ux4dk9y No weirdness with leds, blinking etc. It was supposed to be a simple parallel series swap with the power transformer, but this amp had a bad trimmer for the bias circuit. I added a new multi turn (non OEM part) Bournes trimmer pot, changed a resistor, and was able to get it into proper bias range. Sadly, I never ran the amp in 230, so I couldn't really compare. When it came to me, all of the electrolytic capacitors needed replacing, as this amp saw a LOT of gigs, first In the Netherlands I think, then a second owner on the coast of the UK. If I had tested when I first got it, and used a transformer to use 220, the amp would've sounded pretty sick. A lot of dried up leaky caps. Even some of the blue film caps were so old and won out from heat and time, that when I went to desolder them, they just crumbled like a chalky biscuit or something (typical for that era of marshall film caps). Chalk, like an antacid tablet. I just ran it for a second at 120, to see if it would power up, then began the rewire of the transformer. Also, this amp's layout was more like Marshall's newer amps, pretty ahead of it's time, and completely unlike an 800 or 900. After all the work was done, the amp sounded pretty great though. Not exactly an 800 sound, maybe between an 800 and 900? Maybe better mids with less fizziness on top than a 900. I had it here for a week maybe after repair, but only test ran it for an hour or two. Lot's of useful features on the 6100. Probably a great studio amp. I didn't notice anything with the 50/60 cycles, shouldn't really matter. Just be certain to swap the fuse to correlate to the voltage if you do a rewire of the power transformer. Thanks
Thank you for taking the time to research this! Great playing to back it all up and keep our ears focused!
I wish I could return to how chill you are my dude. Bloody hell this is a great bit of information
There is an interview on UA-cam with Kurt James where he mentions the metal dust cap Radio Shack speakers. He was around at the time and very much in the know as far as Van Halen is concerned so I'll bet you are correct. As far as strings go you can still get 9 to 40 pure nickel strings made by stringjoy out of Nashville Tennessee. They are a little pricey as far as strings go but well worth it.They break in easily, hold tune beautifully and sound fantastic!
Great info! Thanks for watching and commenting 🤘
Fender 150R's can be had for $6 a set and they do the job perfectly. Higher tension too, so you can run 9's on a strat and it feels chunky. A big part of the sound is smaller bass strings which keep the flub out of the amp with a dimed tone stack.
Thanks for this - it's a great video and I'll use some of your tips here for sure.
Absolutely brilliant...more please!!
I've always been obsessed with the brown sound, Great to hear your take on it. Subscribed! 👍
it is a real pleasure to see with what passion and
infatuation you try to dissect the sound of the master ! i love it :) greetings from Corsica island !
Great - thought provoking content. Great playing as well. Man - whenever I think I’m getting close, guys like you and Pete Thorn pull me back to reality. Keep the content coming.
Such an awesome deep dive! Subscribed and looking forward to more content like this! 😎
Getcha coffee ready 🤘
@@martinsmith4123 Haha! Looking forward to it!!! BTW, I don't have all the gear/amps but you inspired me to take a closer look at "Brit Brown" modeled in the AXE FX III. So, your video really inspired me to dig around and try to achieve a similar tone and feel as your rig (which sounds like a million bucks). So...thanks for the inspiration today!
Great video! Great show presence as well, Martin! Thanks for putting this out! Happy to subscribe!
Thank you man 🤘🤘
Thank you for your work on the lot!!!
Well done… !!👏🏻✌🏻
PS
I told you before but you look like Richard Wright who quit Floyd, to just sit around and do archeological digs on Ed’s sound…
And I applaud you for that.
😁
The lighter pick makes sense. I don't play metal, but hard blues-rock, and I've always used Fender thins (celluloid) or an equivalent Delrin or nylon pick (Dunlop Delrin 50s, Clayton nylon 50s, Dunlop Tortex 46s, etc) and you can slam the strings and blast out chords a-la Malcolm Young but because the picks are thinner than the standard, thick & pointed metal style picks that are popular today, the strings don't go out of tune because the pick absorbs much of the force, and then the 'recoil' adds some extra snap. Looks like Eddie used lighter picks than 46s or 50s, from your estimation. Still, the concept holds.
Spot on. The red one I’m using is a Dunlop .50 absorbing some of the impact on the thinner strings. Heavier strings - heavier picks. That’s the age-old recipe!
🤘🤘
Exceptional. Nerd level in the stratosphere, and great playing as always. Fully expect to you to have Edward's guitar design as a full body tattoo next time I see you. Hope you're good x
Awesome video! Love the bit on the possibility of a comp in the circuit of the echo plex. Mattias Jabs was goosing his Marshalls with an echoplex in line because he " liked what it did" to the tone. Enough said, it adds some jam. Comp pedals are fantastic boost pedals with Marshall style circuits as well. Now that I think of it, Schenker also ran an echoplex in line for a while. Once he went to the digital delays, it felt like he was playing with slightly less gain to my ears. ( early MSG) I'm with you on slaving though. 100%
Kind of like Ritchie Blackmore's use of the AKAI reel-to-reel tape deck he used as a preamp.
@@RandyFricke exactly that. These guys were getting a lil extra where they could.
A THD Attenuator would work too. (As opposed to a variac.) I know I tried it.
Excellent video - I'm new to the channel and am loving it. You make an excellent point around 5:30 that has always fascinated me as well - that "D" chord sounds like a sonic "beam" that would never decay. It's was the most amazing thing I had ever heard back in '78 (to my young 15 year old ears) and that continues to this day - it's just an amazing sound that never gets old. Your insights are very interesting and well explained... Awesome!
Hey, thank you kindly 🤘
Rick Wright! nice to see ya, lad
Don’t know who Rick Wright is but hope he isn’t insulted by the comparison 😂🤘
Great video!
Hey Martin, absolutely loved watching this (and the first part too). The sound you get is phenomenal (as it’s own entity as well as the proximity to Ed’s ‘holy grail’) but all of it is topped by your enthusiasm for the subject, delivery and of course, the playing! Awesome buddy…
Thank you kindly Russ 🤘
You sir are an awesome dude for taking the time to not only figure this out but to make this video thanks fellow guitarist
Thank you kindly, my good man 🤘
This EVH quote was the one i paid attention to because it is really revealing ,
EVH in 1980 told to Jas obrecht.
"Some people get a sound like an amplified AM radio. I like it to be like a nice home stereo amplified"
Yep, the Jas interviews are worth a regular revisit! 🤘
@@martinsmith4123 I just finished watching the PODCAST you did with Final resonance tv
and wow you have had some really incredible experiences! UFO! OZZY! ETC .🤘
@@These_go_to_eleven_1959 it’s been an interesting ride so far! Hey, thanks for tuning in 🤘
I never did this specifically for the brown sound, but it works. I went chasing that elusive metal sound, used an oscilloscope, tons of different mics, etc. The best I could find was two SM57s. For me, it wasn't the angle, but the position relative to the other mic. If you take one mic and start moving it back, there's a sweet spot that makes it beautiful. It's a phasing thing. Then pan each hard left and right in the mix.
I heard that earlier EVH was cranking API pres to get more low end. The dry was panned one way and the wet was using a plate reverb panned hard the other way.
Great work on this video and it sounds very close. I like your analogy of the recipe. There are probably lots of ways to get this sound. My closest to date is using a Two Notes Opus. It's also about 1/1000th of the price. lol.
I think you really nailed it!
Thanks for your input and for watching 🤘🤘
Most Exxxxcellent Martin! 😎🤘
Appreciate all the homework you've done and sharing your knowledge!
Thanks 🤘that makes it worthwhile 🤘
You guys are completely insane. Never change :)
Good job setting the mood of his search for tonal supremacy. I have a feeling that, just like all guitar players, EVH was always trying out new chains and elements with his "rigs" I doubt that anything stayed 'cemented' in the setup for very long, though road work relies on a basic safe-zone combination that can be tweaked as ideas, discoveries and influences dictate.
Like that! 🤘🤘🤘
Martin i recently picked up a 5150 iconic and man it’s as close as I ever have gotten. Your sound here is really awesome! I have a pair of the jbl’s and I have not got around to a/b the cabs. I think what you concluded could be. It so much fun chasing this tone. Thanks for sharing!
Nice! Congrats 🤘
Superb video Martin , a thousand thanks - really enjoyed it. Inspired to work on learn more VH tunes. I like your logical conclusion to the JBL myth - it does make sense. .Also thanks for mentioning John Diggins - guitar luthier, as I am not far from Birmingham and struggle to find anyone to work on my guitars . PS shame your video wasn't a couple of hours longer - Brillant content, Thank you.
Thanks Rich! John is amazing, highly recommended. I’ll work up to some longer videos, just finding my feet with the video stuff. Good luck with Ed’s parts 🤘
Good morning Martin - you are doing a fantastic job on the Ed video's - Great tone on your guitar too. Do you have Johns website please ? only I tried looking for him and drew a blank. Thank you@@martinsmith4123
More godlike insight and hypothesis Martin. Magnificent stuff. Beautiful tone and playing as always. Thank you for your endeavours. Magic.
Very kind, my good man 🤘
spot on man. I need to relearn some of these intricacies. Wou;d love to add my 2 cents at some time
I remember Eddie said in guitar magazine way back in 80"s that he just didn't like too much treble and highs. Like chucking razor blades at you. If your an experienced guitar player, you can hear that first albulm is pretty raw guitar sound. Just good playing
True...3 peice band guitar needs Fat sound
Also - amazing depth of research here - fascinating! I thought I was pretty well versed on the history of Ed's tone and brown sound - clearly that wasn't true. Thanks again for providing such killer content!
Thank you so much for all of your work. You are helping us with many of Eddie's mysteries so we can incorporate so of this wisdom into our own music. Also, you play very beautifully. I hope you perform with a group and also record.
Thank you kindly! I mostly produce other bands these days but I am looking to get out and play 🤘
@@martinsmith4123 Sounds great. Is the sound really loud in the room? Does the Coco have to be cranked to get "that" sound?
@@rikshredder it’s at halfish power in the cab room, so it’s quite loud in there, moderate club level 🤟
@@martinsmith4123 Cheers!🤘🏼
Back for part 2. Certainly wasn't disappointed! Just hit that subscribe button.
Thanks man 🤘
Martin! Just watched this Part2 Incredible .......
Thank so much 🤘
Very, Very Cool! RESPECT!! I have been chasing this tone my entire life, I heard VH-1 in high school on FM radio, King Biscuit, living in the mountains of Oregon, no music stores. I learned to play the songs on our family acoustic guitar, that almost played itself. I unknowingly cut up that Pre-War D-18 and used the neck to build my own electric guitar, (Oops!) and used old stereos for amplifiers as my uncle Tom suggested. Eddie actually knew my Uncle's employer, Les Paul, (who also cut up perfectly good guitars to make them "Better"} The Les Paul designed Low Impedance pickups in the LP Recording, Personal or Professional can get close to that sound passively! Again Thank You!
Awesome Mark 🤘🤘That D-18 though 🥹
I still have/ play/ and teach Luthier Techniques with the D-18 "mistake", It actually plays and sounds GREAT! and currently has Lace Sensor Humbuckers at the bridge, an original 59 Tele at the neck and ...Umm...well...a Floyd Rose...on a pre-war d-18 ...Damn Kids. (Huge Smile). I am now a retired Neuroscientist /Vintage Guitar Hoarder with 37 Vintage instruments (as Penance?) including several Low Impedance guitars from Les Paul's Phat Tuesdays. We built an analog open reel tape studio in the unused Bus Barn at our local school where we reverse engineer sounds as you do. Folks call Me stupid for letting 5th graders play a $9000. 1969 LP Personal, L-5-S or THE STUDIO 1972 Fender Telecaster Deluxe owned by David Palmer when Steely Dan recorded "Reeling in the Years", etc. I have similar Marshall gear as you, and I really love your channel. We don't post online because we are a school, but maybe we could share some "Gear Only videos from the Doyle Collection, Respect !@@martinsmith4123
Tape op mag just had a nice interview worth checking out with Donn Landee
Yes indeed! Loved it, part one on just started to edge into VH territory. I’m hoping part two will be along soon! Cheers 🤘
Great video!!! Thanks
Glad you liked it! 🤘
You know, a lot of people think it’s all in the fingers Martin. You should do a video about that. Really enjoyed this video though, keep it up.
Haha Are you telepathic? 😉 thank you for watching 🤘🤘
Well done. It’s the band and the sound that is in my head every day 🤔
And mine too! Thanks for watching man!!! 🤘🤘🤘
Martin - this was a great watch. Loved it! One upgrade to consider for your VH board: MXR Custom Shop '74 Vintage Phase 90. Night and day in comparison to the modern circuit. Check it out (I have one if you'd like a brief lend).
Looking forward to some more playing and tones!
Good call Nick, I was looking into modded phase 90’s. I should def try the custom shop, pop over and we can try it out!
Ah, I would love to (sincerely - been a long time since I've been in a studio surrounded by great sounding gear) but I'm a little far afield these days (foot of the Highlands! With a touch of Chronic Fatigue Syndrome still to recover from). I did grow up in Lincolnshire, though, and we frequently took the train up to Sheffield between the 80s and early millennium. Where did those days go???
Funnily enough, my Phase 90 has the 9v power supply and true bypass mods which make it a little easier to use (while still staying true to the '74 custom shop circuit).
Let me know if you want a lend and we'll make it happen!
@@martinsmith4123
@@nicksummers2252 I’ll check out some clips of the 74 to tide me over. Very best of luck with CFS, I have a history of that too ✊
cool, sounds great. I had one of those Groove Tube preaamps back in the early 90s.. really liked channel two if I recall correctly
Ah cool! The mean channel, yes it’s an ac:dc ish amount of gain, maybe a little ac30 grunt thrown in! Thanks man 🤘
Hot damn! Well done!
Kudos to you for all the research and moreover, the genuine love of the EVH sound, which comes across brilliantly. Regarding the way the chords on Running with the Devil get "bigger." Might this have something to do with the Echoplex?
If I may add a detail to your fine work: Steve Rosen's Tonechaser included an interview with Edward where he explained that his pedal board helped smooth out his tone. I had the chance to ask Dave Friedman about it. Dave explained that the MXR pedals were not true bypass and that they certainly dulled some of the higher transients and Edward also was using the MXR 6 band EQ. It was probably set as a reverse smile. Just one more chemical in the great brown sound cocktail.
Cheers.
PS Loved ever minute of this show!
Great points thanks! Re the echoplex, this was set for just a little more than a single repeat, I don’t think that was giving the afterbloom. Sounds more like too many big cathode ray tubes being overdriven to me.
Cheers 🤘🤘
Very good video. I do have a couple of questions. For your guitar; how do you prefer the string action? I have heard Eddie had higher action on his guitar. But I don't know what that would have been. It had to of been at a level where he could still get tapped harmonics. I don't hear any fret buzz in his playing. With my Frankenstein tuned down to E Flat; I get fret buzz with lower action. Also; what brand of strings are you using?
Really cool video, Martin. Thanks so much for your hard work on these. Sorry if I missed it- but what speakers are you using in your cab? OG blackbacks? and also, is that your cab recording the sound sample showing the two different mic angles?
Just found your comment regarding them being 80s greenbacks. Also I want to add that this micing setup just sounds perfect in my studio, thanks again for the tips.
I can't seem to find it, but I did read or hear something years ago, as well, that had something to do with him having JBL's at head level behind where he stood in early years. There was something in there as well as about him listening to his sound, not stage shyness, for the reason he turned his back to the crowd during solo's. In ear monitors negated that in following years.
I can’t find any evidence of STUDIO use of JBL. If you can, feel free to share. Thanks for watching 🤘
How do I do this in Amplitube, I'm on a budget, haha. Absolutely amazing video, love all the deep knowledge on Ed's tone. Honestly I've never heard anyone nail it like you have. Others have come close.
Bravo ,u did well sir.
Just subscribed. Great videos! What is the last amp in the chain? After the lo1.
Thank you 🙏 it’s a Groove Tubes Dual 75 power amp. Try the effects return of any valve amp! 🤘🤘
Did you do a vid review on that Bray amp I see behind you?
Awesome job- thank you for sharing.
Are you using the G12M-20 Heritage Celestions in your cab?
I think they are 80’s greenbacks… thanks for watching 🤘🤘
nice one!
Great info. I’m in 💯 agreement with you on the JBL conspiracy. Most notable and respected brown sound chasers also say he used 1970s black backs. I’m not quite sold on that theory, I think he used pre rola Greenback 20 watters.
On part 1 video, I’m assuming your settings were set differently? You absolutely nailed the early VH tone in that video. Part 2 tone was thicker and messier sounding.
One thing I thought was a bit odd with your setup but it seem to work fine is you actually use the thicker volume II blended in with I. I have the same amp, and use volume 1 (gangster mode) majority of the time when going for the VH Roth tone.
he did own late 60s and mid-late 70s cabinets for those first albums. that’s where the blackbacks come in. unfortunately, the name “greenback” refers to like 20 speakers.. all relatively available to someone like eddie at the time.
@@tanneryordan correct I’m just not sure why he modeled the Peavey EVH Sheffields and his current signature EVH Celestions from pre rola 20 watt GBs if he used the black backs. Maybe he did, I dont know.
@@BPToneReview well blackback also refers to a few speakers as well. one of them being g12m25 which is essentially the same as the pre rola’s he was using aside from the Mueller cones. he always refered to them as “greenback” though so its likely that the greenback was always part of his sound.
ive found that the g12h30 sounds closer to his tone anyway. it has the EQ you have to boost and subtract from a 20-25 watter with a medium magnet baked into it. all i know is that there are no effing JBL’s on any album..
@tanneryordan1978 @brentpearcy Some serious speaker knowledge here. My greenbacks are later Ipswich ones I think (I’ll have to pop the back and check)
@@martinsmith4123 Martin keep this up! Love the brown sound chase vids! Did you have the Bray set differently on the first video?
What about the MXR distortion + box pretty sure I read an old guitar player mag back in the day where he said he always used those on first 2 albums at least, that’s why that was my first distortion pedal?… Randy Rhodes also used one.
I’ve never seen anything about an mxr distortion. He did get a micro amp around 1984 for live dates without ‘the’ Marshall. Randy certainly did, and you can hear it.
Cheers for watching 🤘
Brilliant!
bravo martin......this is the closest to the eddie tone iMHO......the reason i think you nailed it is that, it is basic and simple and everything eddie did, like all true geniuses is, they base everything on basic concepts, and dont get lost in the cerebral jargen....nice job mate. cheers!
Thank you James! All the best 🤘
Very good job man!! Woman and children first on the end of video sounds exact the same!! Again nice work keep going !
when you started playing "Aint talking 'bout love" I did a complete double take and ran to the screen to see who'd changed the video. that's the most spot on I've ever heard. 100% nailed it. just curious have you had a chance to play a Belle Epoch Deluxe? its got some nice preamp goodness that sounds amazing with a Marshall
Thanks man 🤘 I haven’t tried the belle epoch but I’ll keep an eye out. Thanks for the tip off and for watching 🙏
@@martinsmith4123 cheers bro. the Belle Epoch Deluxe has the preamp, the standard Belle Epoch does not 😉
Nailed it 👍
Definitely in the ballpark and spirit of EVH. Bravo! 👍
I don't even play guitar, but I watched the whole thing!
My Germino amp is killer for my EVH tones. Thanks Greg
Edward did use JBLD120F speakers in straight cabs onstage…there are photos proving this. You are correct to say that there are no photos of the JBLD120F speakers in angled cabs in Eddie’s onstage gear when the stripped tolex cabs were used live.
This doesn’t mean that it is impossible that Eddie used JBLD120F speakers on the first or second albums, but it is not likely that he did. It is even less likely that he used them on ‘Women and Children First’ and later albums.
There is no evidence that Eddie ever used these Radio Shack speakers that local L.A. guitarist Kurt James claims that Ed used which is likely the source that Doug Anderson is quoting for this Radio Shack speaker business. None of the photographs of silver domed/aluminum cap speakers in Eddie’s cabs are the Radio Shack variety…they are all the JBLD120F speakers or possibly the visually identical JBLK120 speakers. This is so because no Radio Shack silver domed speakers have the correct dimensions for the silver/aluminum cap itself. The D120F/K120 cap is 4” in diameter and the cone itself is smooth. The Radio Shack silver cap speakers are 3” in diameter with ribbed cones. There are no photos of these 3” silver cap/ribbed cone Radio Shack speakers in any of Ed’s cabinets. I think this Radio Shack theory was ultimately a dead end.
I believe that JBL (Radio Shack more likely) straight cab was often seen on the extreme right side top position. But he was only plugged into the bottom cabs, so still not actually used. I find most of Ed’s working practices were surprisingly practical and common-sense based. Why would he use a speaker on his debut LP that he described as being too harsh. Highly unlikely.
@@martinsmith4123I agree…but I added information in my above post about the physical differences between the JBLD120F/K120 speakers and the Radio Shack speakers. Ultimately it is highly unlikely that he ever used silver domed Radio Shack speakers. Still, it isn’t impossible that Eddie used the JBL speakers since he did use them live onstage from 1978-1979, but again it is highly unlikely. There aren’t any photos showing them in use before this time around the late October/early September 1977 sessions for the first album…so I agree that it probably isn’t so that he used the JBLs on the first album.
I believe that you are right to say that the “Runnin’ With the Devil” isolated speaker tracks are most likely the two mics shown in the Donn Landee photo from the session for “Jamie’s Cryin’” that you have shown. The top mic is clearly visible, but you also see the second mic arm going just below the view of the photo…there is certainly a second mic there. The two speakers were probably Greenbacks (not necessarily pre-Rola) which were mic’ed at different angles as you say. I think this general mic setup was probably used through the recording of ‘Fair Warning’ and possibly beyond.
You made that trill in eruption sound like a Pacman game, dee doop dee dee dop
Eddy on a interview talked about an amp modification
Do you remember which interview? I know he said Jose had tricked out all his gear, only to take it back later saying he was just drumming up work for his mate. I think the retraction was possibly false. 🤘🤘
25:19 Rig breakdown.
I don't think that Ed was as scientific when dialing in his tone as we can be when we're trying to mimic it ...that said,I love doing it and think it's fun to try and get that brown sound by any means necessary....maybe we should just start winging it,I think that's what Ed would do....your tone is brilliant by the way
Thanks man 🤘🤘
You're very close. Very close. But the reason that the "Brown Sound" has been so elusive for all these years is that that sound is not in Eddie's gear at all. It was in Eddie's hands.
Nuno Bettencourt tells the story of how Extreme was opening for Van Halen and Eddie invited Nuno to play on his rig. Nuno was excited that he was finally going to be able to sound like Eddie Van Halen. But Nuno rolled up the volume knob he sounded like Nuno Bettencourt.
Nuno was actually distraught and disappointed that after all those years of wanting to sound like Eddie Van Halen he wound up sounding like Nuno Bettencourt.
Which I believe proves my point that guitar tone is organic and originates not from wires, but from our hands and fingers. That's why to this very day many people have gotten close, but no one has ever nailed it 100%.
He also used old small fenders like tube rectified princeton,s or deluxe reverbs
I thought it was fairly well confirmed that eddie used orange JBL 120's on top. I also can't imagine anyone using JBL's in a prop, they weigh a ton. Would think too, if that was a prop, it would have some damage to those metal domes. Who knows, though, and thanks for a lengthy video on eddie's sound.
At this point we know that eddie owned them, but that's where it ends. There is nothing suggesting they were orange JBL's, nor that they were even D120's as opposed to the K120's that looked identical from the front.
There really hasn't been any convincing evidence supporting the JBL's on the studio tracks theory. Yes, they sound okay when mixed with a Greenback, but they do not sound like the bright speaker eddie had. There is actually more forensic evidence that suggests there were no JBL's on any recording of Eddie.
So, could would it work if I go from my amp to the attenuator , use the attenuator for a load (no speaker at this point) then use the line out of the attenuator to the second amps input then that amps out to my 412?
Sounds right to me👍, as long as the amps have loads, you should be golden. Thank 🤘
@martinsmith4123 alright, good because I only have one speaker cab...lol.
Am I the only one who mistook this for a Kush Audio video?