I actually wrote about this in my journal. The exact words I used was “How does it affect one’s ability to trust love when the person they rely on and trust the most is also their tormentor”. Yikes, I may have this attachment style. I thought I was anxious preoccupied but I resonated a lot with disorganized attachment
Very late to this. However, quite often people who actually have Disorganized Attachment are mistaken to have Anxious Preoccupied. After a deep self analysis and reflection, they come to find out they are the Disorganized type. It’s not unlikely that this is the case for you as well. Hope you are in a place of healing and peace 🫶💛
As I am a cis gendered male, it effected every relationship with a female for all of my life. Constantly seeking validation from women; pursuit/flirtation then flee on interest; insecurity in relationships; destructive internal dialog in feminine voice; wanting/needing intimacy but when felt = fight-flight causes immediate retreat withdrawal. A Psychiatrist diagnosed me as PTSD, but as the triggers are entirely based on the childhood period, Disorganized Attachment is another "frame" that allows a specific approach for interventions. Learning this gave me hope, clarity and focus. There are books - Anxious Attachment No More - and others that focus on repair/reconstruction of Attachment style, more clearly sought as Secure Attachment. You can start by establishing a Secure Attachment with yourself - since I began that process......the love and joy just GROWS.
I am going through the same realization right now. Maybe part of the issue is the descriptions of disorganized attachment in self-help literature and on the Internet. Most of the time one reads about people who are impulsive, aggressive, delinquent, unpredictable etc. I am the complete opposite, and I am sure you are, too. The explanation Dr. Sage gives makes much more sense - disorganized being a mixture of axious and avoidant, and a swinging between these two poles. You should check out her video on disorganized attachment "healing your chronic anxiety and avoidance". It puts a very different perspective on what disorganized attachment looks like in comparison to mainstream popular sources.
So can we then develop a disorganized attachment style from a dad who was frightening and a mum who is frightened? I don’t remember my mom being a scary or angry person.
@@Eve65901i think anything that’s inconsistent or unpredictable behaviors can result in a disorganized child! for example, one caregiver can be a source of fear by being violent, shouting, or loud (which is VERY frightening as a small baby) and the other caregiver can be on the calmer side but still have inconsistent behavior and unpredictable reactions to the baby’s needs
My dad was physically & emotionally unavailable. I grew up in a home with just my mom, who was physically present but emotionally unavailable as well. She ignored me my entire childhood. And when she did talk to me she either yelled or spoke in an irritated tone. It didn’t dawn on me until I was grown that she had trauma that she never dealt with. Being an only child, I sought attention elsewhere & eventually developed a disorganized attachment for most of my adult life, struggling to maintain relationships & jobs. I’ve finally healed for the most part & am able to regulate my emotions in a healthy manner. Such a painful attachment style to have.
Can you tell us from your experience what did help you well in the healing journey? I'm going through the same thing, and I'm a little bit of a mess trying to recover from my childhood issues.. I would be thankful if you share it with me
@@alaash7099 lots of reading, honestly. All of Debbie Ford’s books on shadow work helped me immensely. I’ve read each of them more than once. Also, there’s a channel on UA-cam called the Personal Development School. She has a lot of free content as well as an online school with some of the best courses. Be kind to yourself & give yourself grace. It’s a marathon, not a sprint. Best of luck to you. Happy Healing!
I took a clinical quiz and this disorganized attachment was my result. I laughed, then cried. EVERYTHING that described my childhood was here. My mom was extremely anxious and aggressive (still anxious, but on a much lesser scale), and my dad was a workaholic (which I feel like I was/am). I’m a few years from forty, no children and never been married. I’m glad I’m discovering this now, but I really wish I knew sooner. I’m gonna get some help as soon as I can.
I am where you are too. Its been a very tough week of mourning for me. I kinda wish i could go back and unlearn that i have DA. How has therapy been going? What has helped you in your own healing?
When I read how people with that Attachment style were in relationships and noticed it was exactly my behaviour, I was a little confused at first, because my parents, despite not being perfect, especially to understanding emotions, they gave love, and made me feel safe. Then I started to realize how much my relationship with my father was inconsistent, I mean, he always was very present and would always do anything to me, but he was SO ANGRY and Stressed all the time, I was even afraid of speak to him, tell like a joke, when we were all in a loving envriroment and he would just shout at me and humiliate me and make me feel small. So, at one point, I loved him so much and it was great to have him as my father, but then, couple seconds later, I hated him so much and was just unlucky to have him as a father. So honestly, it just makes so much sense now, because I felt all these extreme emotions at a certain period of time and that made me very confused about how I should behave and act around him. That being said, reading through it, I noticed how I apply that exactly to my girlfriend, I get all those extreme emotions of love, but then, she is just the person I most hate in the world, although I love her. I was always so confident to, but no inside a relantionship, Im consistently wondering If I look good and all this stuff, even considering that I don’t deserve being fully loved. I can get pretty controlling and VERY selfish at a lot of times, being very explosive and changing moods. Im never agressive at anyone though, althought I could be very harsh on myself.
In my psychology degree I remember learning about attachment styles and thinking how sad disorganized attachment made me… and now I’ve realized that’s my attachment style 😢
I have tested out with this attachment style, and it seems to fit. I did not have a horrific childhood, but there were a couple of things. My father had been a harsh disciplinarion, and had a temper, but was never a drunk, or mentally ill. He was otherwise a very good father, and worked very hard on his issues. He's now 87, and an absolute sweetheart. 💕 My mother was and is not violent. She was never an alcoholic. She was never psychotic. She didn't have great role models growing up, but was mostly a very good mother. Her own mother had suddenly died when she was a toddler. She had some kind women in her life, and some good role models, but nobody who was in it for the long haul. 💔 Then, they were very young when they had me. What she would do, was to tell me that i could earn something, (and that "something" had been my brainchild). She said that if i earned something, nobody could ever take it away from me. I was 6. She set up a calendar with tasks i had to complete without being reminded, be good for an entire month, do well in school, etc. So i completed the calendar and tasks, never complained for a month, did my best to behave as a perfect angel, (and that was hard, because i wasn't one). At the end of the month, i asked if i had earned it, and she said, "yes." I received what i had worked so hard for, and i was so happy - finally! I felt as if i'd accomplished something! The next week, she told me that she needed it back, for a younger sibling. This type of thing happened A LOT throughout my childhood, and it really took the wind out of my sails, and diminished trust. It's a real motivation killer. Another time, I spent several weeks organizing a social activity, with other kids close to my age. I had done extra chores for cash, and created it on my own, with no parental assistance, but following her rules. The social group was a success! After a couple of weeks, i was told that i could no longer do it, unless i included the golden child, with whom I didn't get along, and was not in the same age group. (We were meeting at a friend's house, specifically to avoid the GC, and had been told that was fine). When i refused, she stripped me of my group leadership, and asked a younger sibling to continue the group for the golden child, (the GC threw tantrums any time she didn't get her way). I felt blindsided. I learned that i could carefully follow the rules, but she could still change them, unfavorably, in the blink of an eye. She might take anything i created or earned, and hand it off to the golden child. I had no agency in my own life. It seemed that the harder I worked on something, the more likely it was to be take away. Later i was told that, if i earned a scholarship, i would go to the cr@ppiest college for free, and they would take whatever money had been set aside for my college, and apply it to a savings account for the golden child's college fund. My grades plummeted. I STILL didn't get along with the GC. Why would i break my back to send HER to a great college, when i was only getting the bottom of the barrel? I ran away at 17, (and STAYED gone).
Omg that sounds like a nightmare 😨. Sounds like your mother was trying her best to destroy your ability to be internally motivated. I hope you didn’t lose that ability permanently & I hope your life is going well now.
This was a year ago. Did knowledge of your attachment style actually help you? I've found a lot of peace in the Crappy Childhood Fairy on UA-cam. The daily practice is a life saver but I can't focus on myself with this attachment style to even do the healing things that help me. I feel so stuck.
I am 60 years old and just discovered my disorganized attachment style. I am also in graduate school pursing a Masters in Clinical Mental Health Counseling. I was abused by my mother for the first 16 years of my life. She was diagnosed as bipolar type 1/MDD 4 years after "running away from home." I do like the way you present this material, as it seems so many only focus on addressing "anxious" attachment styles as they are perhaps the majority. The need for validation but fear of vulnerability is the core wound (in my opinion) for disorganized attachment persons.
I love the non-judgmental way you address this topic. I have immense compassion for my mother as she tried to cope with the challenges of three in diapers before anyone talked about how hard it was. I was the third, and she had a “nervous breakdown” when I was two. I developed CPTSD which manifested in variety of ways, including being an inept parent myself. Having compassion for the person I was when my children were very young is not as easy as having it for my mother. So…thank you. Thank you for using specifically nonjudgmental language.
My first memory is finding my mom bleeding out unconscious when she miscarried when I was 3, she was insanely depressed/suicidal until I was 11 and my dad spent 100% of his time at home focused on her. It took me a long time to start to understand the impacts of these aspects of my childhood on my adult self
It is like you are describing my childhood. Incredible! I am 30 years old, never had a relationship or anything in my life. The pain is just too deep, i do want to heal from this so i can move on and live a better life.
Great idea. Waste no more time. I matured at 40 and didn’t change the situation until 53! The last 25 years have been okay. Take care. When you give up something consider well what replaces this. 😊
3:30 - i was forced into therapy as a teen and the best thing that therapist told me was "It's not about you." * my case = primarily raised by a bipolar mom with borderline personality disorder.
I just recently learned about this stuff and I think I'm starting to understand some of my own problems and seeing where they come from. In my early childhood I remember my mother being such a perfect and caring person, I fondly remember her singing me to sleep or she would let me sleep in her bed while holding her arm. As I grew older I started to see more of the negative side of her including her tendency to drink, move from relationship to relationship as well as place to place. Drinking was very frequent here and my mother was often tipsy and drunk, a state I grew to hate more and more, there was a few times I would hide her beer and wine bottles so she would not get any drunker. It didn't help that she married an alcoholic when I was 11 and they were together for almost 10 years, very turbulent relationship to say the least. They would drink together, listen to loud music and very often argue and fight, luckily there was no physical fighting. One day I came home from school early, it was 1PM and they were drunk singing and dancing in the kitchen while loud music was playing They never listened to my concern or complaints about their behaviour, my mother always told me that's just how things are, there is nothing to worry about etc. My feelings didn't matter, I just had to deal with it and it was like that with everything, nothing I said mattered to her and it was just silly or stupid of me to think that way or have my own principles and meanings about things. When I told my mom I wanted to try something like a new hobby, she always treated me like I was stupid, asking me "why" I wanted and explaining how pointless it was to even try something like that. I was always shot down and told I was wrong, I have felt so powerless, unworthy and confused all my life
It's good to be able to see things from the perspective of a whole. Just know it's also good to be angry at your parents for not being able to provide your needs also. It's okay to be angry with them and release that anger. It's okay to grieve your own losses due to circumstance. It's what would help to set healthy boundaries and gain a sense of separation. They as adults, the parental figures were capable of self reflection and change just as much as we consider ourselves to be. Some parents actually do try their best whereas some parents actually don't and seek to just have control. Either way focusing on yourself and healing is what will get you to heal. The behavior of others may never change and it's not your job to change anyone. Accept the reality for what it is and work on yourself and focus on your own happiness.
I will a 100% enroll in a course like this. Tools to maintain a relationship with the aging BPD parent with bounded and self advocacy and also help understanding healthy parenting for our own families.
Thank you so much - I will add your ideas!! How to parent our own families --when we didn't get the healthiest examples, can be quite challenging - such an important concept!!🙏🏻💕
Thanks for your enlightening video. I think I have an attachment disorder. My childhood was abusive and chaotic. Both of my parents were violent, aggressive , and brutal. My mind was negatively affected and I have struggled with mental illness all my life. I had a spiritual re- awaking lately and am becoming alive emotionally. My mental health is improving daily thanks to your channel!
I believe my father is a narcissist and struggles with borderline personality disorder, which also resulted in him becoming an alcoholic. I think this is the type of attachment style I developed over time, along side with C-PTSD. Unfortunately, my father hasn’t seeked help or ever assumed any responsibility for his behaviours, and now has very little people left who he hasn’t alienated (mostly strangers who don’t get to see his true self but rather the charismatic actor). As for myself, I had to cut my father out of my life 10 years ago, for my own safety and sanity. However, it is only in the recent years that I have truly started making breakthroughs with my healing. I very much appreciate these videos, they answer many of my questions about my struggles. Thank you!
Wow, this sounds just like my mother. My sister and I stopped talking to her 11 years ago. She also has few people left that she hasn't alienated. She has a bunch of "best friends" who live literally 1,500 miles away. See how that works? lol People who she has no true relationship with.
I have watched this crying so much cause I actually relate to everything I am mostly what you are describing I feel so bad that I have all this to work on
Thank you so much!! Going through a divorce and I knew nothing about attachment styles and I myself is an anxious attachment did not help as my wife is a disorganized attachment. Your information is enlightening and now I know how to seek self improvement as well as understand my spouse better in our relationship. Praying with discernment to reconcile and restore my marriage. Again thank you much and god bless.🙏🏾
Hi Dr. Sage - there is a population that is young and going through this now - if there is a way to get to that population - I think that would be a huge win. There was no internet when I was in my teens and I did not figure out what my mother was until I was in my forties with my own children and realized I would never, ever do to them what she did to me. But if you could somehow get to that population earlier so that they understand much sooner, I think that would save enormous unnecessary suffering for potentially decades for people caught in a situation with these wounded parents. And that would make them more aware so when they become parents themselves, they do not perpetuate the suffering onto another generation. Also another aspect is some education on parenting and how to be a better parent, not just the opposite of what your own parent was. I think maybe I had been too hands off as a parent because I did not want to be the intrusive mother I had, for example.
thank you and yes I agree! I truly believe it would be incredible to help more people understand these dynamics. I want to work on my Tik Tok account to do this - because this is where many people are in terms of social media, etc. It's just taking me time because of my schedule -but is definitely a goal! Perhaps it's time for me to hire help with these things:). So appreciate your feedback! And, releasing guilt can be so hard to do - hope you have great compassion and self love for yourself - that you did choose a different path and find your own worthiness in healing.🙏🏻🙏🏻💕
@@DrKimSage Yes - Tick tock would be a great way to get to the population that this is happening to right now! Good luck Dr Sage - it is such important work which can make such a huge difference to this population.
A course for adult children of narcissists would be very helpful. Key areas of interest include: Identifying automatic triggers to reactivity; techniques to avoid knee jerk emotional reactions; beginning steps to healing the damage you spoke of in this video.
I always thought I was anxious attachment since i began therapy and i always felt like anxious attachment was too particular compared to my feelings and situations and now THIS makes sense ! I had a fearful alcoholic father who i was 100% afraid of and he wasnt physically or emotionally present at all and my mother was anxious all the time and sometimes hostile due to dealing with unresolved abusive trauma from her first husband and my father and she just seemed to be in survival mode all the time so she was unpredictable and kind of in and out with support. They both also had some narcissistic tendencies as well. Thank you so much for these videos they are helping me see why i react and feel so many different feelings and emotions all the time where i feel so unstable most of the time this its a relief to put an appropriate name to it now❤️❤️❤️❤️
I think sibling issues would be a great topic to cover. You did a really helpful video comparing CPTSD, that I have, and BPD, which my mom and a sister have. My sister's case is far more challenging than my mom's, and I am at my wit's end. I try to remember to use a somewhat scripted response when she tries to reel me in to discord, but get triggered at false accusations and am drawn in, which can also feed her false narrarives. I am worn down and really need tools and guidance. I love your videos! Just found them today and am binging them and sharing with another sister. Thank you.
This perfectly describes everything for me except it was my dad who was the alcoholic and unstable emotionally and my mom relied on me to take on parent and adult roles as a child
I love your channel so much! the info you share has given me so much relief and hope. you also always describe things in such a compassionate way that I can reframe how I think about my mother. I’d love to take your course. I’d took a compassion integrity class and I think the section on self cultivation was absolutely life changing it felt as though I finally became a real person and could finally live purposefully . I think that would be an extremely impactful piece in your course. I’d also love to see a section on how to safely interact with the borderline parent. I have a constant fear of almost forgetting what’s real when interacting with my borderline parent because of the deflection, dismissal, denial, and general distortion of reality that they use to control the narrative. If you do not believe we should interact at all with borderline parents, then I’d love to see a section on coping with releasing ties to them. I oscillate violently between wanting nothing to do with my parent and desiring a connection deeply. I’m starting to feel numb to my own cry of wolf. Thank you for your work!I hope my ideas are relatable for others!
I don't remember *not* being afraid of my mother. In retrospect, I believe no one helped me bc everyone else was afraid of her, too. Which made neglect by the "village" much easier to forgive. I heard rumors that little kids used to cry when they saw her. My mom just thought it was bc she was unattractive. Whatever.
My mother was always super charming. She would never act out in front of people who weren’t under her control. I think for me that made it even worse. Everyone saw her in this glowing light and couldn’t or refused to believe what happened behind closed doors.
First, thank you for making these ❤️. I would be very interested in a course. I am interested in what you mentioned today in self regulation and finding your sense of sense after being raised by a bpd parent. Your steps about emotional flashbacks and re-parenting ourselves in a previous video was also so helpful! Breaking down these complex emotions we have and explaining them is so validating and it’s a really good first step for me starting my healing.
I wonder why some in the field refer to this attachment style as "disorganized" while others refer to it as "fearful avoidant"? I grew up with an alcoholic, covert narcissist father, and a very anxious, codependant mother with ADHD and highly-fluctuating moods (likely undiagnosed BPD). Both parents were physically abusive at times. My father would get into drunken rages; my mother would get frustrated and overwhelmed, I think, because she had too much to handle with everything while not addressing her own needs. I remember as a young child crying myself to sleep into my pillow to not make noise because I never knew which of my parents would come into my room and whether they'd be comforting or hostile. This has been eye-opening for me... explains why I've struggled my whole life with my relationships.
My mom worked her ass off to provide for the family but she made sure me and my dad and pretty much everybody knew about it. I spent most of my childhood dreading her wrath. If I got a 9/10 on my tests, I would contemplate running away. I believed it was only a matter of time before she kicked me out of the house. Now that I'm older I know she'd never have done such a thing but she had emotionally banished me out of her graces more times than I can count. She was either at work, with her friends, entertaining guests or simply out doing who knows what. She never took me with her anywhere. I conclided she was ashamed of me. I'm dark skinned and the way she reacted to people when asked how come I am darkskinned while both her and my dad are pretty much light skinned confirmed my belief that she was indeed ashamed of me. She'd make a mountain out of a bump and beat me for it. Mock me and call me names. I love her. She survived unthinkable things. She was abused in every way. I forgive her cause she was a much much much better mom than her mom ever was to her. But I can't, for the life of me, figure out how to undo the damaged she caused.😢
Yes YES I am all for content about what it was like for boys who were raise by birth mothers who were NPDs and BPDs. Under that Authoritarian abusive family structure there was: *Literal Abandonment (For Days) *Repeated Maternal Incest(3-13) *Explosive Violence (Female) *Babysitter Molestations ( By Females) *Disregulated Rage (Birth Mother) *Substance Abuse(Birth Mother) *Mental Health Issues (Denial)(Mother) *Childhood Abuse And Neglect(Me) We need to hold those female preditors accountable for what they did to that child who was 4-5-6-7-8 years old. They should not get a pass just because American society doesn't think that Mothers do not abuse their boys. THE HELL THEY DON'T. They are therapy notes and case notes that say otherwise. I'm all for equality. So this quarter the 10 female childhood abusers names are coming out. And they Are mostly Female. Boom! There will be equality in 2021.
My dad used to play with me and my sister when we were really young, but for as long as I can remember he was the strict enforcer who always led with no. I can't talk to him about things I'm going through bc I think it makes him uncomfortable to be vulnerable. Thankfully my mom was the opposite, but she struggled to really understand me until I got older and started to look into why I felt so different from those around me. Now as an adult I know I'm autistic with adhd symptoms and struggle with attunement in romantic relationships, but I'm not sure how much of that is solely having a neurodivergent brain.
Thank you so much for these videos, they have been helping me so much along my inner child healing journey and getting a better understanding of my own uBPD mother. In addition, I am expecting a child soon and am so eager to be the parent I wish I had. I so appreciate your work.
Thank you so much!! I don't know how i missed this! Just sat down to start working on a course and was re-reading comments - hope all is well with your little one!! Sending support:)!!!
Hi I love and appreciate this video, like so much of your content 🙏🏽 Re: future course Would ❤️❤️❤️ help with being adult daughter of untreated borderline mother , and how that impacts adult friendships. The little work available for adult children often seems focused on romantic relationships. Also , one issue I rarely see addressed is cultural differences, and how for Americans with an immigrant or racially oppressed background, it’s even harder to discuss or get help with problems at home because of the guilt and sense of betrayal involved when if you speak out while being part of an economically or culturally vulnerable population . Also how some cultures have extra mother worship patterns that add another layer of enabling the mentally ill parent.
Holy smokes, I just realized that I am likely disorganized attachment style. I would love a course with you! The first thing that comes to mind is that I'd like to see a detailed assessment to determine if the NPD or BPD course is more appropriate (I think many of us are unsure if our mothers are BPD or if they're NPD). I struggle most with female friendships. I feel like I'm doing everything correctly but the results aren't there. After watching your videos I've started to put the pieces together. I also struggle with perception and my inner compass, I want to learn how to develop that. How to overcome the deep seated wound that something is wrong with me. I'd like to see inner child work, and overcoming emotional dissociation (which I struggle with in inner child work). Love your channel, thanks for providing such valuable content 💜🙏
Could you please touch on a course or how to deal with health anxiety please. I have experienced this issue my whole life and thanks to you I am now realizing it is due to my childhood trauma and having a narrastic/borderline mother. I am learning so much from you and I am trying to deal with these intrusive negative thoughts about my health. I am trying to find a therapist who specializes in childhood trauma. So far I have not been too sucessful.. As always thank you soo much for making these videos. ❤
Mega relatable.. just subscribed. I have a feeling I’ll be spending some time with your playlists over the weekend This really resonates and is helping me zoom out. Thanks Dr Sage
Oooohhhh sign me up! That’s so exciting you’re going to do a class for children of narcissists& borderlines! Cool 🤩 Maybe we could have a support group via zoom, Kinda like a ACOA meeting. Journal entry prompts specifically for children of narcissists/Bpd parents would be good. Of course provide useful resources such as educational printable PDFs and questionnaires FAQs checklists, helpful phrases or words of wisdom to hang on the wall as a reminder of how to interact with PDfamily members, step by step instructions for what to do in bad situations that you can reference, interactive things of that nature... a video series.. maybe students can create a profile with a picture & backstory so we can get to know the other folks in the class on like a community platform/social media page, scheduled meetings/support groups with a daily discussion topic /questions to answer and share with the group ... outline of the course syllabus lol tentative schedule/timeframe, go over the guidelines and expectations (rules to follow, goals, approach, attitude, reminders, code of conduct, confidentiality, consent, course objectives& outcomes etc) I’m really glad you are going to create an online course like this! yay! 😀
Oh and visual aids! Always gotta have a visual aid when you give a report at school I remember this because I lost points once because I forgot one lol
Awesome ideas! Thank you so much for sharing Sarah! And, yes, to all of it! I have to do some research on how to create some of the group type dynamics with others -love all of these!💕🙏🏻
@@sarahcouture24 I just sat down in thinkific to start building the course and just re-read everything you wrote....seriously helpful and inspiring me! thank you so much!!!!
This makes so much sense. My therapist just told me I have a disorganized attachment style. My twin and i were taken from my biological mom as a baby by CPS. She had severe mental illness. My bio dad was an alcoholic. Then my twin and i taken to foster care. Then my grandparents. My grandmother had hoarding disorder and was not emotionally attuned to my twin and I. She tried so hard. We acted up a lot. My twin was physically aggressive towards me. We were very emotionally explosive and rageful children. Now I wonder if that is the disorganized attachment. Then at 14, our grandma died and we went to a cruel woman who had undiagnosed NPD. She would go on to abuse us in every way and steal our childhood home and inheritance. I understand my disorganized attachment style much better. How could I attach to anyone? No one felt safe.
I took the attachment style test with Brianna McWilliams and came up disorganized....twice...the first time I thought...nah...must have messed up the test. lol. Nope. But, I couldn't figure out really how I got in this category because I don't have the obvious abuses. My mom was a good person, but she was depressed and often seemed like she didn't like me as a child (we became great friends as adults). She was one of those people with resting B face and was really cross sounding at points. She never played with us, or was very nurturing. The era of the child is seen but not heard and spare the rod spoil the child. I never bonded with her. So....when you said this parenting style is disorganized because the person is both your safety by virtue of being your caregiver AND the person you fear.....ding ding ding. There it is.
Fabulous. I'd like to hear more. My mother is schizophrenic and goes off her meds and becomes aggressive, even violent. I specifically remember when I was probably 4 she slapped me while she was dissociated, then apologized. But you can't take that back. It creates a primal sense of uncertainty. (She may have BPD, as I've discussed with her psychiatrist.) So now I have social anxiety and the man I love and I have struggled tremendously to stay together in a healthy way. At present we're in contact but living apart, because there was escalating violence in the relationship. We're both extremely romantic and love to bond, until we come into conflict, then there are escalations and break ups. I now think we probably both have disorganized attachment. (In "How We Love" we would both be deemed too have a Vascilator love style. The same back and forth through opposites. I think we both have some capacity to feel stably, very happily attached and in love. But it breaks down, sometimes horribly. Once his home became my primary residence we fell back into our Toxic dynamic and I had to leave, which is a huge financial drain. All of which is just to say: When you grow up in chaotic circumstances, you also end up suffering through your own dysfunction. And then you have to take care of a mentally ill parent, when you never achieved emotional and financial stability yourself. It can be a nightmare. But knowing what's happening and why is very clarifying and that helps! Thank you. 🥰⚘️
I'm realizing this is my attachment style. My father definitely has undiagnosed NPD and my mother has *something* because no healthy individual would marry nor stay with a man like my father. I don't know if she has NPD and it's covert or if she had BPD. All I know is that I have never felt emotionally safe in my entire life. My parents also were very enmeshed and refused to let my siblings and I have normal lives. we weren't allowed normal freedoms. So I grew up being criticized by my parents, compared to other kids, dealing with unstable moods, but was also taught that I'm disgusting, inherently flawed, and that I can't survive without them. They used religion and "your parents want what's best for you!" to keep control over us, so I wasn't allowed to study what I wanted in school, I couldn't go away to college, I wasn't allowed to go here or there, etc. By the time I reached adulthood, I was so depressed, suicidal, and brainwashed that I just went along with whatever they said. I'm almost 30 and just now realizing how f'd up my life has been despite me being able to succeed academically (out of fear!). I was diagnosed with cPTSD last year. I have never been able to form any sort of good, steady relationship or friendship. I either overstate or understate my role in other people's lives. I don't even bother trying anymore. I've just resigned to the fact that I'm better off alone.
I feel scared to even listen to this in my house if my parents heard. My only secure ish relationship is with my therapist and it’s freaking me out not being able to hear from them. I think what if she no longer wants to treat me anymore that I’m too broken. That I feel mad and sad and grateful whenever she gave me empathy. And this was after it felt like I loved them. Watching these videos feels impossible when I relate heavily and feel unable to make any change. It also felt like the secure feeling I had in therapy was there in this video this is just so hard.
I believe my mom has Borderline PD and it was difficult growing ip being physically, emotionally and verbally abused all the time. All I would wish for is to get away from my home. I’ve never been able to date more than 2 years (max) and I am so afraid of someone abusing me in the same way. I would love to take your course.
My therapist goes into the physiology of the trauma, that how one reacted in dealing with a deeply mentally ill and emotionally dysregulated parent is baked in to some degree meaning it's a feature, not a bug. Anyone who grew up in those circumstances would have similar outcomes even if the genetics determines the overall way those reactions happen in each person. There will be negative consequences and they will have impact and those consequences are normal reactions to ongoing trauma in children into adulthood.
anxious attachment... I tried to fix my parents marriage. my mom said it was wrong for me to try to help. but I said I could handle it.. source of safety (love) source of fear (sadness) I'm chaotic, didn't know who I am.
Bless you for these videos and for making courses. I am not sure what my mom is - maybe bipolar undiagnosed. Maybe a narcissist. It's hard to know for sure.
I can't thank you enough. I've been wondering if I'm avoidant or disorganized. My mom was pretty much described in the first minutes of the video. In tearing up... Where can I go from here? ( In regards to the last few minutes, I can't say for sure, but my mom might of been borderline. Among other things, I've really struggled with a limited capacity to attune/connect/empathize/sympathize with others. I also struggle with feeling passionate about others and even things. Most of life is perfunctory and wooden. I wish there was a resource that helped with these issues . ) Sorry if I overshared! Thanks!
Dr Sage, does this still apply if my experience was more of a "guilt without solution", as opposed to fear? Or if my fear was for the safety of my parent as opposed to my own safety? I was the emotional parent in the household. So even though my mom took care of adulting and met my physical needs, I had to meet her emotional needs which were overwhelming because of her mental illness and addiction. Would that still put me in this attachment category?
Does anyone else feel that they were born disorganized? As long as I remember, I always had thoughts that something was wrong with me, and other people (children) were talking to me only because their real friends were not there and analyzed their nonverbal cues although I had no idea what I was doing then, so I decided to be a loner.
I would love to hear how you would approach someone that has no idea about attachment theory. However they are clearly avoidant. How to do this without having them deactivate? And feel unsafe.
I'd like to know what actually is healthy and "normal". How do you create a healthy relationship with your partner? And how do I become a good parent even though I have this background? I don't want to pass on my trauma on my children like my parent did....
Dear Kim, thanks so much for your informative videos. Luckily I grew up with great, competent parents. However, I have two step-children (8 years), that up to this point were almost exclusively raised by a BPD mother. One of them often goes into a rage, and the other displays excessive "day dreaming" in school. Both struggle to make friends ... and lots of other things. I find it hard to find ressources for people like me. There seems to be a lot of information for adults that were raised in dysfunctional families themselves, but I feel there is a lack of tools and strategies for step or adoptive parents like me. So any help regarding older children with trauma and disorganised attachment would be highly appreciated. :)
Hi Dr. Sage, I am a fearful avoidant (disorganized) attachment. Does this mean I have BPD? I have never heard of this association before. I would like to learn more. Thank you.
Hi! I made a few videos on healing shame - but not all complete and will add them to my courses. I think the titles in my video section are "healing shame"-- thank you for sharing and your interest in my courses is inspiring me to keep going! Thank you so much for watching and sharing:)
My father whipped us with his belt, my mom slapped us across the face. I had no safe place except our dog. Then mom sold the dog. I'm now 51, disorganised, in a relationship, struggling hard even after thirty years of therapy.
Hello Dr. First off thank you for this video. It provided much needed insight for me. The love of my life, I think struggles with this association style. If you were to build this course, would you be able to provide insights for the partners of these individuals? How can I, as her really close friend, connect with her in such a way helps her most deeply? Thank you again for the video, and thank you for opening the platform up for this type of discussion.
By what age will a child’s specific attachment style have developed? In other words, when is it “too late” I guess, in the sense that the style of attachment formed will inevitably cause problems for the child in adolescence and into adulthood in terms of emotional regulation, interpersonal relations and such?
I have both parents with all the traits and characteristics as psychopaths. I think my dad could be a sociopath, but it's tough to tell. They have never been to therapy, and I highly doubt they ever would consider it. They had 4 children, and all have trauma and mental health issues. There isn't much information out there on how to heal from the extreme pain I have from my childhood. Where would I find it.😢
what do i do if it’s happening and developing right now? it has happened in my early childhood but now it’s happening even more i’m 16 and i don’t know what to do man i feel like the world is ending i’m already having so many problems and anxiety in my relationships
Thank you. I was thinking aboutwwhen a babe goes into anger the despair and then gives up.. is this what happens in nature when the baby is abondoned and knows its gonna die ?
I've not been able to find a definitive answer anywhere about this would you be able to set this straight for me? So if you have disorganized attachment you have BPD and if you have avoidant attachment style you have NPD? Is it like a two-in-one deal or can you have an insecure attachment style without a personality disorder? Thanks in advance 🌻
I don’t think they’re a package deal from what I understand; it’s just that certain attachment styles correspond with certain disorders. But lots of people without those disorders still have those attachment styles.
I actually wrote about this in my journal. The exact words I used was “How does it affect one’s ability to trust love when the person they rely on and trust the most is also their tormentor”. Yikes, I may have this attachment style. I thought I was anxious preoccupied but I resonated a lot with disorganized attachment
I like what you wrote it’s very true and I’m learning my mother was suppose to be my hero was the villain
Very late to this. However, quite often people who actually have Disorganized Attachment are mistaken to have Anxious Preoccupied. After a deep self analysis and reflection, they come to find out they are the Disorganized type. It’s not unlikely that this is the case for you as well.
Hope you are in a place of healing and peace 🫶💛
As I am a cis gendered male, it effected every relationship with a female for all of my life. Constantly seeking validation from women; pursuit/flirtation then flee on interest; insecurity in relationships; destructive internal dialog in feminine voice; wanting/needing intimacy but when felt = fight-flight causes immediate retreat withdrawal. A Psychiatrist diagnosed me as PTSD, but as the triggers are entirely based on the childhood period, Disorganized Attachment is another "frame" that allows a specific approach for interventions. Learning this gave me hope, clarity and focus. There are books - Anxious Attachment No More - and others that focus on repair/reconstruction of Attachment style, more clearly sought as Secure Attachment. You can start by establishing a Secure Attachment with yourself - since I began that process......the love and joy just GROWS.
I am going through the same realization right now. Maybe part of the issue is the descriptions of disorganized attachment in self-help literature and on the Internet. Most of the time one reads about people who are impulsive, aggressive, delinquent, unpredictable etc. I am the complete opposite, and I am sure you are, too. The explanation Dr. Sage gives makes much more sense - disorganized being a mixture of axious and avoidant, and a swinging between these two poles. You should check out her video on disorganized attachment "healing your chronic anxiety and avoidance". It puts a very different perspective on what disorganized attachment looks like in comparison to mainstream popular sources.
I’m the “child” of an anxious mom and a dismissive father, this explains me TOO well 😓 Thank you for the clarity 🙏
Same here!
So can we then develop a disorganized attachment style from a dad who was frightening and a mum who is frightened? I don’t remember my mom being a scary or angry person.
SAME WXACTLY
@@Eve65901i think anything that’s inconsistent or unpredictable behaviors can result in a disorganized child! for example, one caregiver can be a source of fear by being violent, shouting, or loud (which is VERY frightening as a small baby) and the other caregiver can be on the calmer side but still have inconsistent behavior and unpredictable reactions to the baby’s needs
Me too!
My dad was physically & emotionally unavailable. I grew up in a home with just my mom, who was physically present but emotionally unavailable as well. She ignored me my entire childhood. And when she did talk to me she either yelled or spoke in an irritated tone. It didn’t dawn on me until I was grown that she had trauma that she never dealt with. Being an only child, I sought attention elsewhere & eventually developed a disorganized attachment for most of my adult life, struggling to maintain relationships & jobs. I’ve finally healed for the most part & am able to regulate my emotions in a healthy manner. Such a painful attachment style to have.
This is so me as well.
OMG this is literally me!!! Down to the fact that I'm an Only child.
Can you tell us from your experience what did help you well in the healing journey? I'm going through the same thing, and I'm a little bit of a mess trying to recover from my childhood issues.. I would be thankful if you share it with me
How did you heal?
@@alaash7099 lots of reading, honestly. All of Debbie Ford’s books on shadow work helped me immensely. I’ve read each of them more than once. Also, there’s a channel on UA-cam called the Personal Development School. She has a lot of free content as well as an online school with some of the best courses. Be kind to yourself & give yourself grace. It’s a marathon, not a sprint. Best of luck to you. Happy Healing!
I took a clinical quiz and this disorganized attachment was my result. I laughed, then cried. EVERYTHING that described my childhood was here. My mom was extremely anxious and aggressive (still anxious, but on a much lesser scale), and my dad was a workaholic (which I feel like I was/am). I’m a few years from forty, no children and never been married. I’m glad I’m discovering this now, but I really wish I knew sooner. I’m gonna get some help as soon as I can.
I really relate and feel the same as you
I am where you are too. Its been a very tough week of mourning for me. I kinda wish i could go back and unlearn that i have DA. How has therapy been going? What has helped you in your own healing?
When I read how people with that Attachment style were in relationships and noticed it was exactly my behaviour, I was a little confused at first, because my parents, despite not being perfect, especially to understanding emotions, they gave love, and made me feel safe. Then I started to realize how much my relationship with my father was inconsistent, I mean, he always was very present and would always do anything to me, but he was SO ANGRY and Stressed all the time, I was even afraid of speak to him, tell like a joke, when we were all in a loving envriroment and he would just shout at me and humiliate me and make me feel small. So, at one point, I loved him so much and it was great to have him as my father, but then, couple seconds later, I hated him so much and was just unlucky to have him as a father. So honestly, it just makes so much sense now, because I felt all these extreme emotions at a certain period of time and that made me very confused about how I should behave and act around him. That being said, reading through it, I noticed how I apply that exactly to my girlfriend, I get all those extreme emotions of love, but then, she is just the person I most hate in the world, although I love her. I was always so confident to, but no inside a relantionship, Im consistently wondering If I look good and all this stuff, even considering that I don’t deserve being fully loved. I can get pretty controlling and VERY selfish at a lot of times, being very explosive and changing moods. Im never agressive at anyone though, althought I could be very harsh on myself.
Bruh it's hard
You described my life so perfect.. hope you’re doing better now and thx for sharing it, even if I cried, it helps me to understand more about myself.
In my psychology degree I remember learning about attachment styles and thinking how sad disorganized attachment made me… and now I’ve realized that’s my attachment style 😢
I have tested out with this attachment style, and it seems to fit. I did not have a horrific childhood, but there were a couple of things. My father had been a harsh disciplinarion, and had a temper, but was never a drunk, or mentally ill. He was otherwise a very good father, and worked very hard on his issues. He's now 87, and an absolute sweetheart. 💕 My mother was and is not violent. She was never an alcoholic. She was never psychotic. She didn't have great role models growing up, but was mostly a very good mother. Her own mother had suddenly died when she was a toddler. She had some kind women in her life, and some good role models, but nobody who was in it for the long haul. 💔 Then, they were very young when they had me.
What she would do, was to tell me that i could earn something, (and that "something" had been my brainchild). She said that if i earned something, nobody could ever take it away from me. I was 6.
She set up a calendar with tasks i had to complete without being reminded, be good for an entire month, do well in school, etc.
So i completed the calendar and tasks, never complained for a month, did my best to behave as a perfect angel, (and that was hard, because i wasn't one).
At the end of the month, i asked if i had earned it, and she said, "yes." I received what i had worked so hard for, and i was so happy - finally! I felt as if i'd accomplished something!
The next week, she told me that she needed it back, for a younger sibling. This type of thing happened A LOT throughout my childhood, and it really took the wind out of my sails, and diminished trust. It's a real motivation killer.
Another time, I spent several weeks organizing a social activity, with other kids close to my age. I had done extra chores for cash, and created it on my own, with no parental assistance, but following her rules.
The social group was a success! After a couple of weeks, i was told that i could no longer do it, unless i included the golden child, with whom I didn't get along, and was not in the same age group. (We were meeting at a friend's house, specifically to avoid the GC, and had been told that was fine). When i refused, she stripped me of my group leadership, and asked a younger sibling to continue the group for the golden child, (the GC threw tantrums any time she didn't get her way). I felt blindsided.
I learned that i could carefully follow the rules, but she could still change them, unfavorably, in the blink of an eye. She might take anything i created or earned, and hand it off to the golden child. I had no agency in my own life. It seemed that the harder I worked on something, the more likely it was to be take away.
Later i was told that, if i earned a scholarship, i would go to the cr@ppiest college for free, and they would take whatever money had been set aside for my college, and apply it to a savings account for the golden child's college fund. My grades plummeted. I STILL didn't get along with the GC. Why would i break my back to send HER to a great college, when i was only getting the bottom of the barrel? I ran away at 17, (and STAYED gone).
Omg that sounds like a nightmare 😨. Sounds like your mother was trying her best to destroy your ability to be internally motivated. I hope you didn’t lose that ability permanently & I hope your life is going well now.
This was a year ago. Did knowledge of your attachment style actually help you? I've found a lot of peace in the Crappy Childhood Fairy on UA-cam. The daily practice is a life saver but I can't focus on myself with this attachment style to even do the healing things that help me. I feel so stuck.
I am 60 years old and just discovered my disorganized attachment style. I am also in graduate school pursing a Masters in Clinical Mental Health Counseling. I was abused by my mother for the first 16 years of my life. She was diagnosed as bipolar type 1/MDD 4 years after "running away from home." I do like the way you present this material, as it seems so many only focus on addressing "anxious" attachment styles as they are perhaps the majority. The need for validation but fear of vulnerability is the core wound (in my opinion) for disorganized attachment persons.
I love the non-judgmental way you address this topic. I have immense compassion for my mother as she tried to cope with the challenges of three in diapers before anyone talked about how hard it was. I was the third, and she had a “nervous breakdown” when I was two. I developed CPTSD which manifested in variety of ways, including being an inept parent myself. Having compassion for the person I was when my children were very young is not as easy as having it for my mother.
So…thank you. Thank you for using specifically nonjudgmental language.
My first memory is finding my mom bleeding out unconscious when she miscarried when I was 3, she was insanely depressed/suicidal until I was 11 and my dad spent 100% of his time at home focused on her. It took me a long time to start to understand the impacts of these aspects of my childhood on my adult self
It is like you are describing my childhood. Incredible! I am 30 years old, never had a relationship or anything in my life. The pain is just too deep, i do want to heal from this so i can move on and live a better life.
Great idea. Waste no more time. I matured at 40 and didn’t change the situation until 53! The last 25 years have been okay. Take care. When you give up something consider well what replaces this. 😊
Samehere , 30 and never had a relationship
I can’t trust someone
3:30 - i was forced into therapy as a teen and the best thing that therapist told me was "It's not about you."
* my case = primarily raised by a bipolar mom with borderline personality disorder.
I just recently learned about this stuff and I think I'm starting to understand some of my own problems and seeing where they come from.
In my early childhood I remember my mother being such a perfect and caring person, I fondly remember her singing me to sleep or she would let me sleep in her bed while holding her arm. As I grew older I started to see more of the negative side of her including her tendency to drink, move from relationship to relationship as well as place to place. Drinking was very frequent here and my mother was often tipsy and drunk, a state I grew to hate more and more, there was a few times I would hide her beer and wine bottles so she would not get any drunker.
It didn't help that she married an alcoholic when I was 11 and they were together for almost 10 years, very turbulent relationship to say the least. They would drink together, listen to loud music and very often argue and fight, luckily there was no physical fighting. One day I came home from school early, it was 1PM and they were drunk singing and dancing in the kitchen while loud music was playing
They never listened to my concern or complaints about their behaviour, my mother always told me that's just how things are, there is nothing to worry about etc. My feelings didn't matter, I just had to deal with it and it was like that with everything, nothing I said mattered to her and it was just silly or stupid of me to think that way or have my own principles and meanings about things. When I told my mom I wanted to try something like a new hobby, she always treated me like I was stupid, asking me "why" I wanted and explaining how pointless it was to even try something like that.
I was always shot down and told I was wrong, I have felt so powerless, unworthy and confused all my life
It's good to be able to see things from the perspective of a whole. Just know it's also good to be angry at your parents for not being able to provide your needs also. It's okay to be angry with them and release that anger. It's okay to grieve your own losses due to circumstance. It's what would help to set healthy boundaries and gain a sense of separation. They as adults, the parental figures were capable of self reflection and change just as much as we consider ourselves to be. Some parents actually do try their best whereas some parents actually don't and seek to just have control. Either way focusing on yourself and healing is what will get you to heal. The behavior of others may never change and it's not your job to change anyone. Accept the reality for what it is and work on yourself and focus on your own happiness.
I will a 100% enroll in a course like this. Tools to maintain a relationship with the aging BPD parent with bounded and self advocacy and also help understanding healthy parenting for our own families.
Thank you so much - I will add your ideas!! How to parent our own families --when we didn't get the healthiest examples, can be quite challenging - such an important concept!!🙏🏻💕
Thanks for your enlightening video. I think I have an attachment disorder. My childhood was abusive and chaotic. Both of my parents were violent, aggressive , and brutal. My mind was negatively affected and I have struggled with mental illness all my life. I had a spiritual re- awaking lately and am becoming alive emotionally. My mental health is improving daily thanks to your channel!
good for you..same story here
I cannot begin to say how much this resonates. My mom is undiagnosed, but this describes my childhood to a T and my experience to a T.
I believe my father is a narcissist and struggles with borderline personality disorder, which also resulted in him becoming an alcoholic. I think this is the type of attachment style I developed over time, along side with C-PTSD.
Unfortunately, my father hasn’t seeked help or ever assumed any responsibility for his behaviours, and now has very little people left who he hasn’t alienated (mostly strangers who don’t get to see his true self but rather the charismatic actor).
As for myself, I had to cut my father out of my life 10 years ago, for my own safety and sanity. However, it is only in the recent years that I have truly started making breakthroughs with my healing. I very much appreciate these videos, they answer many of my questions about my struggles. Thank you!
Wow, this sounds just like my mother. My sister and I stopped talking to her 11 years ago. She also has few people left that she hasn't alienated. She has a bunch of "best friends" who live literally 1,500 miles away. See how that works? lol People who she has no true relationship with.
a-😊
You’re not alone. 15 years here.
I have watched this crying so much cause I actually relate to everything I am mostly what you are describing I feel so bad that I have all this to work on
Thank you so much!! Going through a divorce and I knew nothing about attachment styles and I myself is an anxious attachment did not help as my wife is a disorganized attachment. Your information is enlightening and now I know how to seek self improvement as well as understand my spouse better in our relationship. Praying with discernment to reconcile and restore my marriage. Again thank you much and god bless.🙏🏾
Hi Dr. Sage - there is a population that is young and going through this now - if there is a way to get to that population - I think that would be a huge win. There was no internet when I was in my teens and I did not figure out what my mother was until I was in my forties with my own children and realized I would never, ever do to them what she did to me. But if you could somehow get to that population earlier so that they understand much sooner, I think that would save enormous unnecessary suffering for potentially decades for people caught in a situation with these wounded parents. And that would make them more aware so when they become parents themselves, they do not perpetuate the suffering onto another generation. Also another aspect is some education on parenting and how to be a better parent, not just the opposite of what your own parent was. I think maybe I had been too hands off as a parent because I did not want to be the intrusive mother I had, for example.
thank you and yes I agree! I truly believe it would be incredible to help more people understand these dynamics. I want to work on my Tik Tok account to do this - because this is where many people are in terms of social media, etc. It's just taking me time because of my schedule -but is definitely a goal! Perhaps it's time for me to hire help with these things:). So appreciate your feedback! And, releasing guilt can be so hard to do - hope you have great compassion and self love for yourself - that you did choose a different path and find your own worthiness in healing.🙏🏻🙏🏻💕
@@DrKimSage Yes - Tick tock would be a great way to get to the population that this is happening to right now! Good luck Dr Sage - it is such important work which can make such a huge difference to this population.
Studying for my counseling board and found a question about this on a practice exam and came across this video, thank you!
A course for adult children of narcissists would be very helpful. Key areas of interest include: Identifying automatic triggers to reactivity; techniques to avoid knee jerk emotional reactions; beginning steps to healing the damage you spoke of in this video.
Thank you ❤
I always thought I was anxious attachment since i began therapy and i always felt like anxious attachment was too particular compared to my feelings and situations and now THIS makes sense ! I had a fearful alcoholic father who i was 100% afraid of and he wasnt physically or emotionally present at all and my mother was anxious all the time and sometimes hostile due to dealing with unresolved abusive trauma from her first husband and my father and she just seemed to be in survival mode all the time so she was unpredictable and kind of in and out with support. They both also had some narcissistic tendencies as well. Thank you so much for these videos they are helping me see why i react and feel so many different feelings and emotions all the time where i feel so unstable most of the time this its a relief to put an appropriate name to it now❤️❤️❤️❤️
I think sibling issues would be a great topic to cover. You did a really helpful video comparing CPTSD, that I have, and BPD, which my mom and a sister have. My sister's case is far more challenging than my mom's, and I am at my wit's end. I try to remember to use a somewhat scripted response when she tries to reel me in to discord, but get triggered at false accusations and am drawn in, which can also feed her false narrarives. I am worn down and really need tools and guidance. I love your videos! Just found them today and am binging them and sharing with another sister.
Thank you.
This perfectly describes everything for me except it was my dad who was the alcoholic and unstable emotionally and my mom relied on me to take on parent and adult roles as a child
I love your channel so much! the info you share has given me so much relief and hope. you also always describe things in such a compassionate way that I can reframe how I think about my mother. I’d love to take your course. I’d took a compassion integrity class and I think the section on self cultivation was absolutely life changing it felt as though I finally became a real person and could finally live purposefully . I think that would be an extremely impactful piece in your course. I’d also love to see a section on how to safely interact with the borderline parent. I have a constant fear of almost forgetting what’s real when interacting with my borderline parent because of the deflection, dismissal, denial, and general distortion of reality that they use to control the narrative. If you do not believe we should interact at all with borderline parents, then I’d love to see a section on coping with releasing ties to them. I oscillate violently between wanting nothing to do with my parent and desiring a connection deeply. I’m starting to feel numb to my own cry of wolf. Thank you for your work!I hope my ideas are relatable for others!
I don't remember *not* being afraid of my mother. In retrospect, I believe no one helped me bc everyone else was afraid of her, too. Which made neglect by the "village" much easier to forgive. I heard rumors that little kids used to cry when they saw her. My mom just thought it was bc she was unattractive. Whatever.
My mother was always super charming. She would never act out in front of people who weren’t under her control. I think for me that made it even worse. Everyone saw her in this glowing light and couldn’t or refused to believe what happened behind closed doors.
😢
This woman is amazing! Thank you, I really needed to hear this.
I too would love this course. I’m 63 and just starting to understand myself thanks too you!
First, thank you for making these ❤️. I would be very interested in a course. I am interested in what you mentioned today in self regulation and finding your sense of sense after being raised by a bpd parent. Your steps about emotional flashbacks and re-parenting ourselves in a previous video was also so helpful! Breaking down these complex emotions we have and explaining them is so validating and it’s a really good first step for me starting my healing.
Thank you so much - I wish you the best in your healing!🙏🏻🙏🏻
Dr. Kim deserves much many more viewers. This stuff is top notch!
I wonder why some in the field refer to this attachment style as "disorganized" while others refer to it as "fearful avoidant"?
I grew up with an alcoholic, covert narcissist father, and a very anxious, codependant mother with ADHD and highly-fluctuating moods (likely undiagnosed BPD). Both parents were physically abusive at times. My father would get into drunken rages; my mother would get frustrated and overwhelmed, I think, because she had too much to handle with everything while not addressing her own needs. I remember as a young child crying myself to sleep into my pillow to not make noise because I never knew which of my parents would come into my room and whether they'd be comforting or hostile. This has been eye-opening for me... explains why I've struggled my whole life with my relationships.
Priceless material!
Thank you so much for sharing this. You literally hit the nail on the head.
My mom worked her ass off to provide for the family but she made sure me and my dad and pretty much everybody knew about it. I spent most of my childhood dreading her wrath. If I got a 9/10 on my tests, I would contemplate running away. I believed it was only a matter of time before she kicked me out of the house. Now that I'm older I know she'd never have done such a thing but she had emotionally banished me out of her graces more times than I can count. She was either at work, with her friends, entertaining guests or simply out doing who knows what. She never took me with her anywhere. I conclided she was ashamed of me. I'm dark skinned and the way she reacted to people when asked how come I am darkskinned while both her and my dad are pretty much light skinned confirmed my belief that she was indeed ashamed of me. She'd make a mountain out of a bump and beat me for it. Mock me and call me names. I love her. She survived unthinkable things. She was abused in every way. I forgive her cause she was a much much much better mom than her mom ever was to her. But I can't, for the life of me, figure out how to undo the damaged she caused.😢
I am interested in the course too. Would like to see techniques on self-healing from borderline/narcissistic parents.
Thank you!! I just sat down to build it in Thinkific and appreciate your feedback!:)
Yes YES I am all for content about what it was like for boys who were raise by birth mothers who were NPDs and BPDs.
Under that Authoritarian abusive family structure there was:
*Literal Abandonment (For Days)
*Repeated Maternal Incest(3-13)
*Explosive Violence (Female)
*Babysitter Molestations ( By Females)
*Disregulated Rage (Birth Mother)
*Substance Abuse(Birth Mother)
*Mental Health Issues (Denial)(Mother)
*Childhood Abuse And Neglect(Me)
We need to hold those female preditors accountable for what they did to that child who was 4-5-6-7-8 years old.
They should not get a pass just because American society doesn't think that Mothers do not abuse their boys.
THE HELL THEY DON'T. They are therapy notes and case notes that say otherwise. I'm all for equality. So this quarter the 10 female childhood abusers names are coming out. And they Are mostly Female. Boom! There will be equality in 2021.
Thank you. It feels so validating and I'm learning a lot about myself.
My dad used to play with me and my sister when we were really young, but for as long as I can remember he was the strict enforcer who always led with no. I can't talk to him about things I'm going through bc I think it makes him uncomfortable to be vulnerable. Thankfully my mom was the opposite, but she struggled to really understand me until I got older and started to look into why I felt so different from those around me.
Now as an adult I know I'm autistic with adhd symptoms and struggle with attunement in romantic relationships, but I'm not sure how much of that is solely having a neurodivergent brain.
Thank you so much for these videos, they have been helping me so much along my inner child healing journey and getting a better understanding of my own uBPD mother. In addition, I am expecting a child soon and am so eager to be the parent I wish I had. I so appreciate your work.
Thank you so much!! I don't know how i missed this! Just sat down to start working on a course and was re-reading comments - hope all is well with your little one!! Sending support:)!!!
Wow she’s so beautiful. Her femininity is very radiant ❤
Hi
I love and appreciate this video, like so much of your content 🙏🏽
Re: future course
Would ❤️❤️❤️ help with being adult daughter of untreated borderline mother , and how that impacts adult friendships. The little work available for adult children often seems focused on romantic relationships.
Also , one issue I rarely see addressed is cultural differences, and how for Americans with an immigrant or racially oppressed background, it’s even harder to discuss or get help with problems at home because of the guilt and sense of betrayal involved when if you speak out while being part of an economically or culturally vulnerable population . Also how some cultures have extra mother worship patterns that add another layer of enabling the mentally ill parent.
Awesome feedback- thank you so much! These are great and important issues and thoughts- and I will add them!🙏🏻🙏🏻💕
Holy smokes, I just realized that I am likely disorganized attachment style. I would love a course with you! The first thing that comes to mind is that I'd like to see a detailed assessment to determine if the NPD or BPD course is more appropriate (I think many of us are unsure if our mothers are BPD or if they're NPD).
I struggle most with female friendships. I feel like I'm doing everything correctly but the results aren't there. After watching your videos I've started to put the pieces together. I also struggle with perception and my inner compass, I want to learn how to develop that. How to overcome the deep seated wound that something is wrong with me. I'd like to see inner child work, and overcoming emotional dissociation (which I struggle with in inner child work).
Love your channel, thanks for providing such valuable content 💜🙏
Thank you for the feedback! I am finally beginning to work on building courses and this was very helpful!
@@DrKimSage Can't wait!!
This is such a beautiful way of explaining thank you.
You are so lovely and so calming in your presentation
I just wanted to let you know
Could you please touch on a course or how to deal with health anxiety please. I have experienced this issue my whole life and thanks to you I am now realizing it is due to my childhood trauma and having a narrastic/borderline mother. I am learning so much from you and I am trying to deal with these intrusive negative thoughts about my health. I am trying to find a therapist who specializes in childhood trauma. So far I have not been too sucessful.. As always thank you soo much for making these videos. ❤
Mega relatable.. just subscribed. I have a feeling I’ll be spending some time with your playlists over the weekend This really resonates and is helping me zoom out. Thanks Dr Sage
Oooohhhh sign me up! That’s so exciting you’re going to do a class for children of narcissists& borderlines! Cool 🤩 Maybe we could have a support group via zoom, Kinda like a ACOA meeting. Journal entry prompts specifically for children of narcissists/Bpd parents would be good. Of course provide useful resources such as educational printable PDFs and questionnaires FAQs checklists, helpful phrases or words of wisdom to hang on the wall as a reminder of how to interact with PDfamily members, step by step instructions for what to do in bad situations that you can reference, interactive things of that nature... a video series.. maybe students can create a profile with a picture & backstory so we can get to know the other folks in the class on like a community platform/social media page, scheduled meetings/support groups with a daily discussion topic /questions to answer and share with the group ... outline of the course syllabus lol tentative schedule/timeframe, go over the guidelines and expectations (rules to follow, goals, approach, attitude, reminders, code of conduct, confidentiality, consent, course objectives& outcomes etc) I’m really glad you are going to create an online course like this! yay! 😀
Oh and visual aids! Always gotta have a visual aid when you give a report at school I remember this because I lost points once because I forgot one lol
I would love a support group with others with bpd parents ❤️
Awesome ideas! Thank you so much for sharing Sarah! And, yes, to all of it! I have to do some research on how to create some of the group type dynamics with others -love all of these!💕🙏🏻
@@sarahcouture24 I just sat down in thinkific to start building the course and just re-read everything you wrote....seriously helpful and inspiring me! thank you so much!!!!
This makes so much sense. My therapist just told me I have a disorganized attachment style. My twin and i were taken from my biological mom as a baby by CPS. She had severe mental illness. My bio dad was an alcoholic. Then my twin and i taken to foster care. Then my grandparents. My grandmother had hoarding disorder and was not emotionally attuned to my twin and I. She tried so hard. We acted up a lot. My twin was physically aggressive towards me. We were very emotionally explosive and rageful children. Now I wonder if that is the disorganized attachment. Then at 14, our grandma died and we went to a cruel woman who had undiagnosed NPD. She would go on to abuse us in every way and steal our childhood home and inheritance. I understand my disorganized attachment style much better. How could I attach to anyone? No one felt safe.
Sorry your life has been so chaotic
@@jessicapatton2688 awwww thank you so much. I have a beautiful son and a loving supportive husband now
Love ❤️ your style of communicating info! Thank you ✌🏾
Father-son relationships would be helpful.
I took the attachment style test with Brianna McWilliams and came up disorganized....twice...the first time I thought...nah...must have messed up the test. lol. Nope. But, I couldn't figure out really how I got in this category because I don't have the obvious abuses. My mom was a good person, but she was depressed and often seemed like she didn't like me as a child (we became great friends as adults). She was one of those people with resting B face and was really cross sounding at points. She never played with us, or was very nurturing. The era of the child is seen but not heard and spare the rod spoil the child. I never bonded with her. So....when you said this parenting style is disorganized because the person is both your safety by virtue of being your caregiver AND the person you fear.....ding ding ding. There it is.
This describes both of my parents.
I definitely relate to this. I'm so glad I didn't have children.
Fabulous. I'd like to hear more.
My mother is schizophrenic and goes off her meds and becomes aggressive, even violent.
I specifically remember when I was probably 4 she slapped me while she was dissociated, then apologized. But you can't take that back. It creates a primal sense of uncertainty. (She may have BPD, as I've discussed with her psychiatrist.)
So now I have social anxiety and the man I love and I have struggled tremendously to stay together in a healthy way. At present we're in contact but living apart, because there was escalating violence in the relationship.
We're both extremely romantic and love to bond, until we come into conflict, then there are escalations and break ups. I now think we probably both have disorganized attachment. (In "How We Love" we would both be deemed too have a Vascilator love style. The same back and forth through opposites. I think we both have some capacity to feel stably, very happily attached and in love. But it breaks down, sometimes horribly.
Once his home became my primary residence we fell back into our Toxic dynamic and I had to leave, which is a huge financial drain.
All of which is just to say: When you grow up in chaotic circumstances, you also end up suffering through your own dysfunction.
And then you have to take care of a mentally ill parent, when you never achieved emotional and financial stability yourself. It can be a nightmare.
But knowing what's happening and why is very clarifying and that helps! Thank you. 🥰⚘️
I really appreciate you work!! I just want to say thank you!
Trying self help. Very informative, but, not sure if it's all me ? On to another to see what else i might learn
This video is so amazing! Thank you for your insight
I'm realizing this is my attachment style. My father definitely has undiagnosed NPD and my mother has *something* because no healthy individual would marry nor stay with a man like my father. I don't know if she has NPD and it's covert or if she had BPD. All I know is that I have never felt emotionally safe in my entire life. My parents also were very enmeshed and refused to let my siblings and I have normal lives. we weren't allowed normal freedoms. So I grew up being criticized by my parents, compared to other kids, dealing with unstable moods, but was also taught that I'm disgusting, inherently flawed, and that I can't survive without them. They used religion and "your parents want what's best for you!" to keep control over us, so I wasn't allowed to study what I wanted in school, I couldn't go away to college, I wasn't allowed to go here or there, etc. By the time I reached adulthood, I was so depressed, suicidal, and brainwashed that I just went along with whatever they said. I'm almost 30 and just now realizing how f'd up my life has been despite me being able to succeed academically (out of fear!). I was diagnosed with cPTSD last year. I have never been able to form any sort of good, steady relationship or friendship. I either overstate or understate my role in other people's lives. I don't even bother trying anymore. I've just resigned to the fact that I'm better off alone.
I feel scared to even listen to this in my house if my parents heard. My only secure ish relationship is with my therapist and it’s freaking me out not being able to hear from them. I think what if she no longer wants to treat me anymore that I’m too broken. That I feel mad and sad and grateful whenever she gave me empathy. And this was after it felt like I loved them. Watching these videos feels impossible when I relate heavily and feel unable to make any change. It also felt like the secure feeling I had in therapy was there in this video this is just so hard.
I believe my mom has Borderline PD and it was difficult growing ip being physically, emotionally and verbally abused all the time. All I would wish for is to get away from my home. I’ve never been able to date more than 2 years (max) and I am so afraid of someone abusing me in the same way. I would love to take your course.
I feel I took so much care of my parents when I was a kid that I'm apt to say "SCREW IT, YOURE ON YOUR OWN" when they get old and decrepit.
My therapist goes into the physiology of the trauma, that how one reacted in dealing with a deeply mentally ill and emotionally dysregulated parent is baked in to some degree meaning it's a feature, not a bug. Anyone who grew up in those circumstances would have similar outcomes even if the genetics determines the overall way those reactions happen in each person. There will be negative consequences and they will have impact and those consequences are normal reactions to ongoing trauma in children into adulthood.
anxious attachment... I tried to fix my parents marriage.
my mom said it was wrong for me to try to help. but I said I could handle it..
source of safety (love)
source of fear (sadness)
I'm chaotic, didn't know who I am.
Bless you for these videos and for making courses. I am not sure what my mom is - maybe bipolar undiagnosed. Maybe a narcissist. It's hard to know for sure.
Dang, that was relatable 😕
Thank you for this.
Seeing this video really made me realize that I had no fucking chance Lmao checked every box
I can't thank you enough. I've been wondering if I'm avoidant or disorganized. My mom was pretty much described in the first minutes of the video.
In tearing up...
Where can I go from here?
( In regards to the last few minutes, I can't say for sure, but my mom might of been borderline. Among other things, I've really struggled with a limited capacity to attune/connect/empathize/sympathize with others. I also struggle with feeling passionate about others and even things. Most of life is perfunctory and wooden. I wish there was a resource that helped with these issues . )
Sorry if I overshared! Thanks!
Omg thank you so very much
this was posted sometime ago, hope you have created some vids on healing cptsd
your videos are awesome!!
Dr Sage, does this still apply if my experience was more of a "guilt without solution", as opposed to fear? Or if my fear was for the safety of my parent as opposed to my own safety? I was the emotional parent in the household. So even though my mom took care of adulting and met my physical needs, I had to meet her emotional needs which were overwhelming because of her mental illness and addiction. Would that still put me in this attachment category?
You look like Jessica Lange
The video is titled Disorganized... but the topic is Borderline (BPD). Not all FAs are Borderline.
Does anyone else feel that they were born disorganized? As long as I remember, I always had thoughts that something was wrong with me, and other people (children) were talking to me only because their real friends were not there and analyzed their nonverbal cues although I had no idea what I was doing then, so I decided to be a loner.
I would love to participate in the upcoming project.
I would love to hear how you would approach someone that has no idea about attachment theory. However they are clearly avoidant.
How to do this without having them deactivate? And feel unsafe.
I'd like to know what actually is healthy and "normal". How do you create a healthy relationship with your partner? And how do I become a good parent even though I have this background? I don't want to pass on my trauma on my children like my parent did....
Dear Kim, thanks so much for your informative videos. Luckily I grew up with great, competent parents. However, I have two step-children (8 years), that up to this point were almost exclusively raised by a BPD mother. One of them often goes into a rage, and the other displays excessive "day dreaming" in school. Both struggle to make friends ... and lots of other things. I find it hard to find ressources for people like me. There seems to be a lot of information for adults that were raised in dysfunctional families themselves, but I feel there is a lack of tools and strategies for step or adoptive parents like me. So any help regarding older children with trauma and disorganised attachment would be highly appreciated. :)
BP mother, BP myself and yea this all hits too gard
Hi Dr. Sage, I am a fearful avoidant (disorganized) attachment. Does this mean I have BPD? I have never heard of this association before. I would like to learn more. Thank you.
I would love to participate in your courses. What is a shame journal?
Hi! I made a few videos on healing shame - but not all complete and will add them to my courses. I think the titles in my video section are "healing shame"-- thank you for sharing and your interest in my courses is inspiring me to keep going! Thank you so much for watching and sharing:)
Shame journal that sounds cool like a burn book
My father whipped us with his belt, my mom slapped us across the face. I had no safe place except our dog. Then mom sold the dog. I'm now 51, disorganised, in a relationship, struggling hard even after thirty years of therapy.
Hello Dr. First off thank you for this video. It provided much needed insight for me. The love of my life, I think struggles with this association style. If you were to build this course, would you be able to provide insights for the partners of these individuals? How can I, as her really close friend, connect with her in such a way helps her most deeply?
Thank you again for the video, and thank you for opening the platform up for this type of discussion.
This is me.
By what age will a child’s specific attachment style have developed? In other words, when is it “too late” I guess, in the sense that the style of attachment formed will inevitably cause problems for the child in adolescence and into adulthood in terms of emotional regulation, interpersonal relations and such?
I read somewhere that it was 18 months.
@@VintageChica1810 thank you! 🤗
I fail to see how anyone can feel secure in this violent, chaotic world.
I have both parents with all the traits and characteristics as psychopaths. I think my dad could be a sociopath, but it's tough to tell. They have never been to therapy, and I highly doubt they ever would consider it. They had 4 children, and all have trauma and mental health issues. There isn't much information out there on how to heal from the extreme pain I have from my childhood. Where would I find it.😢
Can you have traits of or have more than one attachment style?
Absolutely - I (and many others) believe you have a main style and then can lean into other styles depending upon the. relationship.
I want the course!!!
I am finishing it now!! I can't wait to share it!!:)
what do i do if it’s happening and developing right now? it has happened in my early childhood but now it’s happening even more i’m 16 and i don’t know what to do man i feel like the world is ending i’m already having so many problems and anxiety in my relationships
Thank you. I was thinking aboutwwhen a babe goes into anger the despair and then gives up.. is this what happens in nature when the baby is abondoned and knows its gonna die ?
5:27
I started calling my aunt mom
I've not been able to find a definitive answer anywhere about this would you be able to set this straight for me? So if you have disorganized attachment you have BPD and if you have avoidant attachment style you have NPD? Is it like a two-in-one deal or can you have an insecure attachment style without a personality disorder? Thanks in advance 🌻
I don’t think they’re a package deal from what I understand; it’s just that certain attachment styles correspond with certain disorders. But lots of people without those disorders still have those attachment styles.
I think in extreme cases it’s like that but most people don’t cross over into that level of dysfunction
It’s not black and white it’s a spectrum
What if the mom is safe but the dad is not? Why do you refer only to the female in this? I'm confused.
Extremely interested. Thanks