@@whirligig_saw They are not mainstream anymore because they didn't age well. Its true that they are hard, but you can basically master 1 arena and master them all in terms of gameplay. They were pretty mainstream back then but they aren't anymore. There are FPS shooters with basically 0 Esport scene but they are still hard as fuck. Battlefield games for example. They aren't easy in comp matches. You need 8+ specific people and they all need to master infantry play or vehicles aswell as having map knowledge and a game plan. They also need to learn how to deal with stronger players in the enemy team.
@@IlNamelessKinglI You can't say battlefield is harder than fps arena because the reason of their difficulties is completely different. Mastering an fps arena means getting very good skill gameplay-wise and map knowledge, while mastering battlefield (or overwatch, or cs go, or LoL or many others) require a certain level of skill, but mostly team-coordination for doing objectives together. The whole point in fps arena is "fragging", while getting kills in these team-based games is a good thing only if it helps doing the objective of the map. I'm not saying team-based games are easier, I'm just saying that it's a different tipe of concept, so they shouldn't be compared this way.
@Estrogen Fury no the fortnite kids i don't think any of them heard of arena shooters and ironically i played most fps games but not halo.....yet . and please man don't use that tone i just uninstalled reddit
@Estrogen Fury if someone asked me to categorize halo i wouldnt start by calling it a arena shooter tbh, no health or armour pickups, way slower pace in terms of movement, limited to two guns at a time. I think you could get away with calling it an arena shooter but its a very fine line, id considered it more ground warfare fps tbh, to each their own though nice opinion on it.
The best thing about arena shooters and games descended from them like Team Fortress is that hitscan weapons usually have a catch to them. Shotgun is low range, machine gun is low damage and requires tracking, the railgun is slow. You don't have the assault rifle archetype that is strong in too many areas and as a result makes the map design and player interactions really boring.
In Call of Duty, I found that the automatic rifles are the only consistently viable weapons and there are no better weapon types since other weapons have either worse dps or worse accuracy or whatever, whereas in Quake and Doom, the best weapons are entirely dependent on the situation and personal skill, except for the BFG being the best and the gauntlet being the worst.
Well done for including content from several Unreal Tournament games! Much respect for highlighting them. Honourable mention should also be the soundtrack these games offer (especially, the UT ones).
Unreal Tournament 1999 is always gonna be my favorite game, i still play to it at night with my old gaming friends, and the music is also a masterpiece
ut3 was on eswc an clp for some time, equals to quake2 and 3, very nice times, playing a quakecon was my goal and i did it, worth it dunno but fps arena are the best moment of any 30's old men
I'm not a competitive gamer, but every now and then I launch the original UT and play with the bots. The game is still very addictive an lots of fun. I wish they still made bots for games.
I am super hung over and this was the most in-depth and thorough break down of arena shooters. The descriptiveness of each element and the way you explained everything was super soothing. Ez sub
Bro, please make some edits on your channel for Warfork, you can find tournament and demons on TheKeep arena fps youtube channel. They recently did a Clan arena tournament which is absolutely entertaining to watch
to be fair a lot of indie arena shooters are basically just Q3 clones with some things changed up. Of course quake style shooters would get brought up more.
@@xanious3759 Everybody thinks they know how to make the next big arena shooter, but even Cliff Bleszinski of ALL PEOPLE doesn't know what the fuck he's talking about anymore.
The whole genre is basically Q3 clones, UT clones are pretty rare. There's like... Toxikk and then Open tournament died in early development. I can't think of any others.
god, I just want a new doom game that has a traditional arena FPS multiplayer. like 2016 was good REALLY GOOD but still, it left some to be desired with loadouts and such. I liked hearing the marathon music not enough appreciation for that oldie. plus as an obnoxious halo fan I enjoyed the end sentiment with flexible definitions because I believe that at least traditional halo counts too. its a lot of the same ideals and structures but built to be comfortable on a console despite their limitations of a controller and such. my old school appreciation and collection of games would have never started if halo didnt get me going on the style then make me need to find others like it to survive after halo added sprint, loadouts, ADS etc. now ive gotten my hands on marathon, doom, quake, unreal, halflife, shadow warrior, duke, hexen, heretic, wolfenstein. all such good games that have been lost to the ages...
@@noobguy9973 because you went out of your way to let everyone know that you still play Quake 3, which is extra ironic because it was in reply to a comment partially making fun of people who do exactly that.
Team Fortress 2 actually currently has 2 sourcemods in development based on AFPS. One is Open Source (Open Fortress) and the other's closed development (Team Deathmatch Classic)
im genz and only into afps now because back in march april or something i played a ton of open fortress unfortunately ive been playing less and less because i'm in south america and just tired of playing at high ping in other regions just to get games so im on krunker now which is fun and simple enough but it's basic compared to actual arenas
Arenas were the most played game when internet connection was not present or was quite slow. People gathered in internet coffees and made their own town leagues and matches casually after schools. Most of the nowadays game industry was born there.
Been playing jedi knight jedi academy for years. It uses the q3 engine. I can strafe jump and Saber duel with the best of them, but as soon as I get in a guns match, the old quake pros just air intercept the shit out of any easy target they glimpse. Snap aim, tracking, leading, strafe jumping, predictive shots: there's soooo much that can get you rekt if you challenge the wrong players to a guns match XD
That's the problem though. I loved JK2/JKA to death, but it certainly wasn't for the damn gunplay. The guns in that game actually feel WORSE compared to the beastly Dark Forces 2 weapons. To this day, I don't know why they didn't just pseudo-port them over, and our clan constantly jokes about how lame most of the JK2/JKA weapons are in comparison.
I play tactical shooters and I’m not used to arena shooters. But one thing I gotta say, the gameplay of Quake/Ut looks so much satisfying and I think the player is a badass.
The name tactical shooter is ironic. Most of those game have very small tactical pools compared to non tactical FPS games. Cover based shooters is a more apt name
I'm still playing UT99. Not that often but once a week. But I mostly in the Monster Hunt section because my aming is way to bad for competitive. Funny fact but my aming skills are good enough for CS GO and Fortnite
For anyone who loves the movement aspect of arena shooters, a game called Krunker is great. It isn't really an arena shooter, but it focuses heavily on movement, and is extremely easy to run, considering it is a browser game
You really managed to capture absolutely everything in a video just over 10 minutes. Very thorough and I'd say appreciative of all communities within AFPS, the addendum at the end was a nice touch too. It's still the "royal genre" and the godfather of gaming innovation if you ask me.
RIGHT! Arena FPS is the best genre, my favourite game is Unreal, I've playing it since I was 6, and it wasn't even my first game (the first one I think was Unreal 2); I love the whole franchise, and I hope to see more UTs (or even Unreal 3, or Unreal Remake [Keeping that amazing soundtrack]), I love Quake and Doom too, they're amazing!
What's great in my opinion is how some non arena fps games, most notably titanfall 2, have adapted and implemented similar high skill movement systems. The more games that do this, the better I think.
Tribes isn't a arena shooter, it's a flying over a small city shooter! Loved Vengence and played the newer one in like 2015. Amazing games that have a lot of good mechanics attached.
@@Januii specifically because he talked about "the most skillful games", and in my opinion Tribes is an arena shooter but with the skill components dialed up to their theoretical human limits
Bennett Harnisch Exactly. Tribes (especially the first two titles) required all of the mechanics required in a typical arena shooter but with the added challenge of effective skiing and compensating for the verticality brought about by jet packs.
Loved the Marathon 2 soundtrack at 4:03. Not for every gamer AFPS genre, people don't exactly like to be destroyed continiuosly till gain some skill, but when you start getting there, oh god...greetings and congrats from an Argentina UT player, good video man.
Nice vid. The days of q3a (osp) was simply the best for me. 1999-2005, amazing time to be a gamer. And you are totally right about immediately being above decent in any other fps automatically.
I played both but in QII had 59 mods was in 3 clans lol ran my sound through a sansui rec the walls n windows would shake sigh ... oldschool dinosaurs yes indeed
another thing I've found is that, aside from hyper-precision weapons (like railguns) you'll NEVER find a one-shot kill weapon in an arena shooter. this makes it so that ambushing an opponent gives an advantage but doesn't guarantee a win and generally makes the game feel much more fair (you won't round an unlucky corner and get hit point-blank with a shotgun and just straight-up die because of it. sure, you'll take a lot of damage, but it's entirely possible to still win if you have great aim and movement)
but that's precisely the reason i like playing OG doom deathmatch: it's an arena shooter where you can get you face blown off at full health blue armor with a supershotgun or a bfg :>
We are loyal for a reason, i personaly think about quake. Next to unreal tournament and couple more games that is one and only one true skill game, movement, aiming, timing and spacing. Shoting trought the time and space is more fun then press E to win.. Amazing video, brings back a lot of good memories. Thanks
I only like arena shooters like unreal and quake. Because they almost feel like racegames and shooters at the same time. The flow is just so good. It gives me a big adrenaline boost everytime you frag someone. I love it.
FFA in original quake was the most satisfying game I've ever played , yeah we had 200ping dropped connections roller ball mice but when you start winning it's a hell of a rush !! Nothing has come close since not even nearly !!
im completely new to AFPS, but what got me interested in them was playing doom (the 2016 one) by being able to move around the map really fluidly and finding what weapon combos are the best for which enemies. diabotical will be my first one, and ive never really had access to them because ive been playing console for most of my gaming time.
Yep. I was raised on Quake, and was always below-intermediate quake player. BUT i am playing a ton of other shooters on diamond+ or equal level, requiring around a month to get there. Quake does wonders to your aim.
I love arena shooters so much, they have such atmosphere and they're all about purely skill. Wish these games were the mainsteam. I bet the professional gamer title wouldn't be common unlike today.
I Would even think that some professional players Wouldn't be above some experienced Quake / Unreal Veteran players 😁 "Man, enable Your Aim-Assist !" (I Saw that on a Halo Tournament on PC, playing with a Controller !! On PC...) And then he won and get famous and rich 😁(I have to find back this video). Media and cash corruption nowadays
@@f.f.mwitchcraft4519 They aren't. Some of the popular ones occasionally stream AFPS games and they get their asses handed to them by the general community. Most of these players are good at positioning, and crosshair placement, and thats about it. Thats all the mainstream fps games like CS:GO require skillset wise.
Very insightful video man, good job Quick question: what's your opinion on old school franchise (namely Quake) adopting the Heroes/Champions aspect of newer games? do you think it's a necessary change to keep up with the times or just them following trends? because i've heard a lot of people complaining that the addition of champions diminishes the "fairness" of duels, since you have to make a decision of what "style" to play before the match even begins, while others argue that the addition of different characters expands the skill ceiling since now you have to strategize beyond what was necessary before. anyways, would like to hear your point of view in the matter.
Thx! I don't mind games trying to break the format and branching out, and I don't think abilities are a bad way to do it. At least someone is trying something. My personal issue with QC at the moment is 1) how the abilities are so strong and damage-based, not utility-based, and 2) how much the duel format has to be gutted just to make abilities work. Otherwise I don't have a problem with the principle of adding abilities. I actually loved how QC uses passive abilities/movement attributes to put different types and generations of AFPS players together.
@@makothemagnificentrabbit8783 make sure you check out the latest Quake Champions patch (Nov) They just did a massive balancing patch, most of the high dmg moves (rangers Orb use to do 8000 dmg and was instant kill, now does 90 dmg) all the speeds are normalized so there is a base speed and then faster champs, the heights have been fixed, hitboxes, etc.. major balancing wave right before DreamHack Nov
I think its possible to add new elements to the arena shooter genre and make it interesting enough to draw in new players, without losing its roots. I think Quake Champions did it wrong, and I have full faith the Diabotical is doing it right. I CANNOT wait for that game to launch check it out if you don't know about it.
No wonder my favorite Overwatch player, Get Quaked On can be so fucking good at Overwatch, he does show his some of his arena shooter play from time to time in bits and pieces. But goddamn I can start to see why he remembers all these tricks he can exploit, like there's over like 40 different movement tricks with Doomfist and he knows them all and uses them consistently
Singleplayer Arena shooters: -You run faster -You usually fight 15-25 enemies (npcs) -You don't reload, you just add ammo to your weapon -You rely on movement and speed more -You are usually alone, no ally or friend besides you -You fight in open environments and big maps Singleplayer Tactical shooters: -You run slower -You usually fight less that 8 enemies at once -You reload -You rely on strategy and tactics more -You are usually in a team or a squad -You are usually in a confined space or building
Wolfenstein Enemy Territory teached me a lot of stuff when I was young. Aim and trickjumping helped a lot later years in competitive CoD4 and CS GO .. I miss those days ...
bro you've only really made one such video and it's absolutely great. I want to encourage you to do more of that. Please take the time. You're doing great work 🙏😌
UT99 was my game. Then later i played UT2K4. The rush of adrenaline when in the zone i will never forget. Being so good at something that everything becomes second nature. I know many of us humans have that feeling with something in life. But for me it was when i was a kid and played Unreal.
MASTERPIECE. QC, new UT, and Toxikk are the main titles I play, but it's mostly QC since I can't seem to find a proper match in the other two. I tried Xonotic, but I dunno why I don't play it. Warsow I think has the largest player hitboxes and it's very easy to hit rails there, and I play it from time to time. I would love to play Reflex, but it's not free. QC:DE is waiting to be installed but now I want to try to finish doom 2016 on ultra nightmare pistol only.
@@kek8726 halo isnt in the same league as cs, most consider counter strike to be the most well made and skillful fps of all time along with arena shooters
A damn fine video. I didn't like FPS games until I came across Quake II on the N64 which only got deeper as I bought my first PC and also bought Quake 4. I spent around 9K hours into the game since I first played it in the mid 00's to about 2014. Quake 4 and Quake like games became the ONLY games I started to play. Once you master movement or at least have a high understanding of the system, no other games can give you the same rush. But that was also my problem, the movement mechanics were so amazing that I couldn't slow down, something CoD taught me later on. lol. I had to bomb around as fast as possible EVERYWHERE AND ALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL the TIME. lol
I saw the title & had to take a look. Great soundtrack ✔ Awesome content✔ The best gaming genra ✔ I play many different games like the battlefield series & the milsim fps games but I started out with quake 100 years ago & arena shooters are my favorite type of fps game & UT4 is my all time favorite game ive ever played. I see alot of arena shooters in your list that ive never heard of. Toxxic was fun but I didn't want to buy the full game for some reason. Im gonna take a look at some of these. Ive recently gotten back into UT4 and I found I missed it. Btw to Epic Games, Boo Fortnite.. Get back to UT4 & finish it. lol Of course I liked & subbed.
Something that often gets lost in talking about the immense skill ceiling arena FPS have is just how low the skill floor is. Quakeworld wasn't a cultural juggernaut just because it allowed for complex movement, tactics, and strategy; it was also easy as cake to start playing. There's no loadouts to prepare with fifty different assault rifles and SMGs to choose from, or killstreaks to know about and plan around, or individual characters with their own weapons and abilities. You spawn, run around until you find a weapon, and go to town until you find better stuff or die. The most complicated the genre gets in terms of baseline required knowledge are powerups like Quad Damage or Megahealths (which are self explanatory) and secondary fires on guns, which is just a matter of pressing RMB and seeing what happens. I think this gets overlooked so often because arena shooter evangelists want to really press on how skillful the games are under the pretense that a game being more skillful is necessarily superior to a game that isn't, and I don't entirely disagree with that impulse. But there are more players in the world than just those who want to put in the time and effort to reach for that skill ceiling, and it's important to think about how the average, non-gdlk player will see a game. I personally love how easy it is to hop into a FFA and start blasting, but we also have to admit that we're a long way from 1996. For most players, such ground-level simplicity is just too basic for them to have fun with for very long, but the intricacies of what the genre can offer are too involved and complicated for those players to even see, let alone want to learn through grinding out movement tutorials or getting stomped by the people who do know them (the rocket jump's nuances in the video is a great example, but strafejumping/bunnyhopping is even more immediately necessary to know yet _far_ more complicated to learn). So for the average player, Quake is either "that game where you just run around and shoot rockets at each other" or "that game where you just run around and shoot rockets at each other except that some people are flying around like fucking speed demons and I have no idea what the fuck they're doing." So there's a somewhat-paradoxical trend within the game playing demographic: low to mid-level players who have been around games for a long time want to have something more complex and nuanced than "look at a guy and shoot him til he's dead," but that still feel more accessible than the complicated and counter-intuitive layers that high level AFPS design offers. The CoDs and Overwatches of the world have answered this demand through having a higher skill floor with the aforementioned loadouts, killstreaks, character abilities, etc, and guide their playerbase through that higher skill floor in different ways - limiting player choices through XP unlocks in CoD, detailed tutorials and characters with different levels of complexity in Overwatch, etc. Thus, even though their games have far lower skill ceilings than AFPSs, they're able to make most players feel engaged by raising the floor enough that they get a sense of navigating depth learning how to play the game without feeling overwhelmed, and then have a guided means to go deeper from there through unlocks or character choices adding new layers of depth gradually. It's this desire to appeal to the experienced but still lower end player that made Quake Live introduce loadouts and Champions introduce character abilities alongside loadouts. They're controversial decisions among the old guard, to be sure. But it isn't controversial to say that AFPSs haven't been much more than a cult phenomenon for a long time, and if there's going to be any kind of resurgence of the genre, there has to be some kind of answer for the desires of those players (unless there's some kind of FGC-style scene of people that regularly get together to compete and create a culture around that). But maybe there doesn't. Maybe 5 people a day playing Reflex is fine if those five people are the ones who care about the depth of the genre. After all, it only takes two to duel, right?
Nice observations, and well expressed. On your last point about loadouts and abilities, I feel that they detract from the game as it destroys the balance of the game, in favour of appealing to a broader audience. I'd much rather the games retain their superior balanced design with fewer players than introduce mechanics (champion abilities) that lessen the design in the hopes of attracting more players (this hasn't worked e.g. Quake Champions). Regardless, AFPS had their time in the sun and those that care about the games are still playing in their tight knit communities. The fact these games are still around with players 20+ years after creation, whereas games like CoD need new releases every year to remain relevant, prove the superiority of AFPS.
games don't need to attract new players, they need to retain them. most players of games have barely invested more than a few hours, if that into them. how are you going to retain players when your movement mechanics consist of "haha shift go brrr"? you shouldn't care about retaining a casual audience who can't even be assed to learn something basic like rocket jumping if you care about having deep game mechanics. compromising the core mechanics will compromise your core fanbase who actually care about the game
"There will always be room for these games" Next suggested video: "The Fall of Quake, Unreal and Arena FPS | Death of A Genre" Hmm, getting some mixed messages here.
Hella funny reading some of these comments. Saying CS is harder or shows more skill than Quake or Unreal is just a crock of shit. And goes to show none of these kids know what they’re talking about. Nothing compares to a Quake duel or Unreal DM 1v1. Cs aim at a corner lol. Its like checkers to chess in all realness. Why do you think summit and shroud didn’t play QC? They BOTH said it was too hard and the skill ceiling was too high. Quake Champions is free. DL it and get that ass whooped a few times CS go gods lol. Where all that aim wont save you. All aim no brain doesn’t do well around these parts.
I think the most recent "mainstream" games that showed some inspirations from arena shooters are Titanfall 2 with the movement and Halo with the weapon variety and power ups.
Thanks for this video, finally something I can show my mates why I play Quake and why I stopped playing the mainstream FPS/BRs - those games just limit your potential to an insane level, and I just can't tolerate those games anymore.
I wish games like these were in the mainstream. not just League, CS GO or Overwatch.
@@whirligig_saw
Sure definitely the reason why
Sure CS GO, League, Overwatch are simple easy games
Sure
@@whirligig_saw They are not mainstream anymore because they didn't age well. Its true that they are hard, but you can basically master 1 arena and master them all in terms of gameplay. They were pretty mainstream back then but they aren't anymore. There are FPS shooters with basically 0 Esport scene but they are still hard as fuck. Battlefield games for example. They aren't easy in comp matches. You need 8+ specific people and they all need to master infantry play or vehicles aswell as having map knowledge and a game plan. They also need to learn how to deal with stronger players in the enemy team.
@@whirligig_saw Ever heard of Dark Souls?
@@Hyp3Or LOL what the fuck? You compare AFPS to a single player game?
@@IlNamelessKinglI You can't say battlefield is harder than fps arena because the reason of their difficulties is completely different. Mastering an fps arena means getting very good skill gameplay-wise and map knowledge, while mastering battlefield (or overwatch, or cs go, or LoL or many others) require a certain level of skill, but mostly team-coordination for doing objectives together. The whole point in fps arena is "fragging", while getting kills in these team-based games is a good thing only if it helps doing the objective of the map. I'm not saying team-based games are easier, I'm just saying that it's a different tipe of concept, so they shouldn't be compared this way.
Ironic how this video is underrated just like the genre
@Estrogen Fury true but that's for people who loved the genre but got tired of it .the new generation barely heard of it
Yeah most gamers have never played an arena shooter in their life.
@Estrogen Fury no the fortnite kids i don't think any of them heard of arena shooters and ironically i played most fps games but not halo.....yet . and please man don't use that tone i just uninstalled reddit
@Estrogen Fury huh..ok man take care
@Estrogen Fury if someone asked me to categorize halo i wouldnt start by calling it a arena shooter tbh, no health or armour pickups, way slower pace in terms of movement, limited to two guns at a time. I think you could get away with calling it an arena shooter but its a very fine line, id considered it more ground warfare fps tbh, to each their own though nice opinion on it.
LOL "Duel me in quake!" , that was so nostalgic. Quake was the standard, in other words the best Arena FPS hands down.
Unreal tournament
@@metallicafan416 i grew up on ut99 and ut03 for sure a ut kid but quake easily holds the title of king no doubt about it.
Ut was 100 times better
Hypixel Quakecarft
It is known.
Well researched, and well made. I hope this video gets some more exposure :).
You're well made!
Hey G Man, you're my hero.
Great Video. Best Games, and Not That pussy Games like cod or so
The man the myth the legend himself.
THE kovaak, incredible
Unreal Tournament 2004 will forever remain my most favorite game of all time. Still so much fun to play after all these years~
The best thing about arena shooters and games descended from them like Team Fortress is that hitscan weapons usually have a catch to them. Shotgun is low range, machine gun is low damage and requires tracking, the railgun is slow. You don't have the assault rifle archetype that is strong in too many areas and as a result makes the map design and player interactions really boring.
coughcough*Halo: Reach DMR*cough
404waffles - that thing is both way too versatile and unreliable
@@jcdenton3512 its the only thing you use 90% of the game
Doom58 exactly, it is a head shot weapon, with more range than most of the weapons in the sandbox, and it makes traversing the map a pain in the ass.
In Call of Duty, I found that the automatic rifles are the only consistently viable weapons and there are no better weapon types since other weapons have either worse dps or worse accuracy or whatever, whereas in Quake and Doom, the best weapons are entirely dependent on the situation and personal skill, except for the BFG being the best and the gauntlet being the worst.
Well done for including content from several Unreal Tournament games! Much respect for highlighting them. Honourable mention should also be the soundtrack these games offer (especially, the UT ones).
Thanks for including Warsow! One of my favorites. Took me years to become adequate at movement.
Unreal Tournament 1999 is always gonna be my favorite game, i still play to it at night with my old gaming friends, and the music is also a masterpiece
All UT lover here but 99 was so mature and epic !
Unreal Tournament 2004 is and forever always will be the pinnacle of the multiplayer FPS genre to me.
Same. Favorite game ever.
ut3 was on eswc an clp for some time, equals to quake2 and 3, very nice times, playing a quakecon was my goal and i did it, worth it dunno but fps arena are the best moment of any 30's old men
I'm not a competitive gamer, but every now and then I launch the original UT and play with the bots. The game is still very addictive an lots of fun. I wish they still made bots for games.
Some still do.
@@spacewargamer4181 Mint gang represent!
@@Pyro-Moloch idk what that means xD
@@spacewargamer4181 just mean we both use Linux Mint lol. Nevermind
@@Pyro-Moloch OOOH yes sorry, i sometimes forget about my pic profile xDDD
I am super hung over and this was the most in-depth and thorough break down of arena shooters. The descriptiveness of each element and the way you explained everything was super soothing. Ez sub
"In the beginning - there was quake!"
that's an insane quality for such small channel! keep it up!
Wow, enjoyed so much! Keep it up!
Now after months, you should think on how to help promote this awesome piece of work among your audience :)
Bro, please make some edits on your channel for Warfork, you can find tournament and demons on TheKeep arena fps youtube channel. They recently did a Clan arena tournament which is absolutely entertaining to watch
Absolutely right on all 3 points, with no preference given between the franchises, though you do seem to favour Quake - Bloody good vid!
how do you NOT favor quake?
@@bogusburrito By favoring Unreal Tournament
to be fair a lot of indie arena shooters are basically just Q3 clones with some things changed up. Of course quake style shooters would get brought up more.
@@xanious3759 Everybody thinks they know how to make the next big arena shooter, but even Cliff Bleszinski of ALL PEOPLE doesn't know what the fuck he's talking about anymore.
The whole genre is basically Q3 clones, UT clones are pretty rare. There's like... Toxikk and then Open tournament died in early development. I can't think of any others.
How I wish this genre was mainstream. It peaked at the wrong time.
god, I just want a new doom game that has a traditional arena FPS multiplayer. like 2016 was good REALLY GOOD but still, it left some to be desired with loadouts and such. I liked hearing the marathon music not enough appreciation for that oldie. plus as an obnoxious halo fan I enjoyed the end sentiment with flexible definitions because I believe that at least traditional halo counts too. its a lot of the same ideals and structures but built to be comfortable on a console despite their limitations of a controller and such. my old school appreciation and collection of games would have never started if halo didnt get me going on the style then make me need to find others like it to survive after halo added sprint, loadouts, ADS etc. now ive gotten my hands on marathon, doom, quake, unreal, halflife, shadow warrior, duke, hexen, heretic, wolfenstein. all such good games that have been lost to the ages...
ultrakill
@@dkskcjfjswwwwwws413 what about it?
Great video!
Yeap, quake 3 was a good game *sips monster energy*
Monster Juiced Mango Loco ftw
what do you mean ''WAS'' ı honestly find it more entertaining that most Multiplayer FPS games today
@@noobguy9973 ok boomer
@@h4724-q6j how am ı a boomer for expressing my opinion?
@@noobguy9973 because you went out of your way to let everyone know that you still play Quake 3, which is extra ironic because it was in reply to a comment partially making fun of people who do exactly that.
Team Fortress 2 actually currently has 2 sourcemods in development based on AFPS. One is Open Source (Open Fortress) and the other's closed development (Team Deathmatch Classic)
OF doesn’t have any armor mechanics, might be a turn-off for some arena fps players, I still like it, just hope TDC has armor
im genz and only into afps now because back in march april or something i played a ton of open fortress
unfortunately ive been playing less and less because i'm in south america and just tired of playing at high ping in other regions just to get games
so im on krunker now which is fun and simple enough but it's basic compared to actual arenas
Arenas were the most played game when internet connection was not present or was quite slow. People gathered in internet coffees and made their own town leagues and matches casually after schools. Most of the nowadays game industry was born there.
Been playing jedi knight jedi academy for years. It uses the q3 engine. I can strafe jump and Saber duel with the best of them, but as soon as I get in a guns match, the old quake pros just air intercept the shit out of any easy target they glimpse. Snap aim, tracking, leading, strafe jumping, predictive shots: there's soooo much that can get you rekt if you challenge the wrong players to a guns match XD
That's the problem though. I loved JK2/JKA to death, but it certainly wasn't for the damn gunplay. The guns in that game actually feel WORSE compared to the beastly Dark Forces 2 weapons. To this day, I don't know why they didn't just pseudo-port them over, and our clan constantly jokes about how lame most of the JK2/JKA weapons are in comparison.
Reminds me of Core-A Gaming channel. Well crafted, informative and entertaining. Excellent work.
I play tactical shooters and I’m not used to arena shooters. But one thing I gotta say, the gameplay of Quake/Ut looks so much satisfying and I think the player is a badass.
The name tactical shooter is ironic. Most of those game have very small tactical pools compared to non tactical FPS games. Cover based shooters is a more apt name
ua-cam.com/video/Q3ui0hz6sm0/v-deo.html&ab_channel=WASD-TheHomeofFragMovies
CLAP CLAP CLAP.. I MISS YOU SO MUCH, UNREAL TOURNAMENT 99!!!
Its on gog, you can even play online btw, that surprised me.
Deck 16
@@diego2817 yeah !!!!!
I'm still playing UT99. Not that often but once a week.
But I mostly in the Monster Hunt section because my aming is way to bad for competitive. Funny fact but my aming skills are good enough for CS GO and Fortnite
@@Pertev777 csgo and fortnite are significantly slower than ut, giving you more time ti make the shot
For anyone who loves the movement aspect of arena shooters, a game called Krunker is great. It isn't really an arena shooter, but it focuses heavily on movement, and is extremely easy to run, considering it is a browser game
Tons of cheaters tho
@@God-ch8lq yep but is fun
You really managed to capture absolutely everything in a video just over 10 minutes. Very thorough and I'd say appreciative of all communities within AFPS, the addendum at the end was a nice touch too. It's still the "royal genre" and the godfather of gaming innovation if you ask me.
RIGHT!
Arena FPS is the best genre, my favourite game is Unreal, I've playing it since I was 6, and it wasn't even my first game (the first one I think was Unreal 2); I love the whole franchise, and I hope to see more UTs (or even Unreal 3, or Unreal Remake [Keeping that amazing soundtrack]), I love Quake and Doom too, they're amazing!
Shame that Epic killed it...
@@Djare915 Also shame that id killed Quake.
I grew up on ut, someone installed ut2004 on my school's computers at 5th grade
Long live Unreal.
@@jonesdan85 sadly, it's not profitable anymore, cuz you cannot shove microtransactions in unreal as much as in fortnut
the shock rifle is the most satisfying FPS weapon ever designed. nothing beats a multikill with the combo.
What's great in my opinion is how some non arena fps games, most notably titanfall 2, have adapted and implemented similar high skill movement systems. The more games that do this, the better I think.
agreed. movement is honestly a huge factor for me while assessing if an fps is worth playing. clunky movement mechanics are a big turn off
Dirty Bomb is a good example too.
@@richedobor5659 i agree, got over2k hours in db and i was beast with movement so fun to pkay
Also requires health and armor pickups that makes moving a requirement. Regenerating health camping behind a wall killed the genre unfortunately
@@richedobor5659 R.I.P
great production man!
I feel like Tribes needs to be talked about in this discussion a lot more haha
Tribes isn't a arena shooter, it's a flying over a small city shooter! Loved Vengence and played the newer one in like 2015. Amazing games that have a lot of good mechanics attached.
Have to agree with Jacob. Tribes kinda falls into its own category. The mechanics in tribes are super deep. He should do a video on the series.
@@Januii specifically because he talked about "the most skillful games", and in my opinion Tribes is an arena shooter but with the skill components dialed up to their theoretical human limits
Bennett Harnisch Exactly. Tribes (especially the first two titles) required all of the mechanics required in a typical arena shooter but with the added challenge of effective skiing and compensating for the verticality brought about by jet packs.
Loved the Marathon 2 soundtrack at 4:03. Not for every gamer AFPS genre, people don't exactly like to be destroyed continiuosly till gain some skill, but when you start getting there, oh god...greetings and congrats from an Argentina UT player, good video man.
Great video! I want more people playing Quake Champions
Nice vid. The days of q3a (osp) was simply the best for me. 1999-2005, amazing time to be a gamer. And you are totally right about immediately being above decent in any other fps automatically.
I was hardcore in the UT camp and absolutely hated Quake 3!
Nowadays, of course, seems like we're all one camp of aging oldschool dinosaurs))
same haha, except i was a deathmatch dude in ut
I played both but in QII had 59 mods was in 3 clans lol ran my sound through a sansui rec the walls n windows would shake sigh ... oldschool dinosaurs yes indeed
This is why there are np new players, they get stomped by dinosaurs who have been playing for decades
@@God-ch8lq Plus the games are really old
I have this video saved so I can cover a specific game in the future. Thank you
another thing I've found is that, aside from hyper-precision weapons (like railguns) you'll NEVER find a one-shot kill weapon in an arena shooter. this makes it so that ambushing an opponent gives an advantage but doesn't guarantee a win and generally makes the game feel much more fair (you won't round an unlucky corner and get hit point-blank with a shotgun and just straight-up die because of it. sure, you'll take a lot of damage, but it's entirely possible to still win if you have great aim and movement)
rockets and grenades can oneshot in quake
@@goaway7904 sure... if the enemy has low health and no armor...
@@alefnull you can get oneshot off spawn
but that's precisely the reason i like playing OG doom deathmatch: it's an arena shooter where you can get you face blown off at full health blue armor with a supershotgun or a bfg
:>
@@goaway7904 i don't know what Quake game you're referring to, but that's impossible to do in Q3A/QL.
You put UltraViolence there.
I felt that.
This is some damn good footage. Really helps make your point.
We are loyal for a reason, i personaly think about quake. Next to unreal tournament and couple more games that is one and only one true skill game, movement, aiming, timing and spacing. Shoting trought the time and space is more fun then press E to win.. Amazing video, brings back a lot of good memories. Thanks
I only like arena shooters like unreal and quake. Because they almost feel like racegames and shooters at the same time.
The flow is just so good. It gives me a big adrenaline boost everytime you frag someone. I love it.
best youtube video ive seen all year. perfect thesis. well layed out points. awesome clips. AMAZING music.
FFA in original quake was the most satisfying game I've ever played , yeah we had 200ping dropped connections roller ball mice but when you start winning it's a hell of a rush !! Nothing has come close since not even nearly !!
Thank you for including Painkiller.
Hail to the king of the fps genre.
Nice video, subbed.
Seeing Lawbreakers here, makes me so sad, rip old friend. U got a subscribe mate
GREAT video! i reference it regularly when people ask me why i play quake XD
Underrated video, this needs to be recommended to whole gaming youtube now.
dude, awesome Video! Playing UT since its dawn and Always will be, afps ftw!
UT was never more than a wannabe Quake...
im completely new to AFPS, but what got me interested in them was playing doom (the 2016 one) by being able to move around the map really fluidly and finding what weapon combos are the best for which enemies. diabotical will be my first one, and ive never really had access to them because ive been playing console for most of my gaming time.
Wow this is a good quality video, looking forward for more of you're content.
I'm now gonna download and play some of these games you so amazingly discussed about. :3
Reflex Arena - you have my like Sir.
why is there only 5 people playing right now :(
+1 for that ultrav, i spent so much of my time high in those quakeworld dungeons :D
the one thing that binds the skillfulness to arenaFPS is the speed. fast games require fast minds
You have a really really good auditory style. Nice vid
Yep. I was raised on Quake, and was always below-intermediate quake player. BUT i am playing a ton of other shooters on diamond+ or equal level, requiring around a month to get there. Quake does wonders to your aim.
unreal tournament made me the best tf2 player in my hometown
i main soldier cuz i like rockets and flak cannon
I love arena shooters so much, they have such atmosphere and they're all about purely skill. Wish these games were the mainsteam. I bet the professional gamer title wouldn't be common unlike today.
I Would even think that some professional players Wouldn't be above some experienced Quake / Unreal Veteran players 😁
"Man, enable Your Aim-Assist !" (I Saw that on a Halo Tournament on PC, playing with a Controller !! On PC...) And then he won and get famous and rich 😁(I have to find back this video).
Media and cash corruption nowadays
@@f.f.mwitchcraft4519 They aren't. Some of the popular ones occasionally stream AFPS games and they get their asses handed to them by the general community. Most of these players are good at positioning, and crosshair placement, and thats about it. Thats all the mainstream fps games like CS:GO require skillset wise.
Very insightful video man, good job
Quick question: what's your opinion on old school franchise (namely Quake) adopting the Heroes/Champions aspect of newer games? do you think it's a necessary change to keep up with the times or just them following trends?
because i've heard a lot of people complaining that the addition of champions diminishes the "fairness" of duels, since you have to make a decision of what "style" to play before the match even begins, while others argue that the addition of different characters expands the skill ceiling since now you have to strategize beyond what was necessary before.
anyways, would like to hear your point of view in the matter.
Thx! I don't mind games trying to break the format and branching out, and I don't think abilities are a bad way to do it. At least someone is trying something. My personal issue with QC at the moment is 1) how the abilities are so strong and damage-based, not utility-based, and 2) how much the duel format has to be gutted just to make abilities work. Otherwise I don't have a problem with the principle of adding abilities. I actually loved how QC uses passive abilities/movement attributes to put different types and generations of AFPS players together.
thanks for the reply :)
@@makothemagnificentrabbit8783 make sure you check out the latest Quake Champions patch (Nov) They just did a massive balancing patch, most of the high dmg moves (rangers Orb use to do 8000 dmg and was instant kill, now does 90 dmg) all the speeds are normalized so there is a base speed and then faster champs, the heights have been fixed, hitboxes, etc.. major balancing wave right before DreamHack Nov
@@Nullscr1pt I know :) Game feels so much better now.
I think its possible to add new elements to the arena shooter genre and make it interesting enough to draw in new players, without losing its roots. I think Quake Champions did it wrong, and I have full faith the Diabotical is doing it right. I CANNOT wait for that game to launch check it out if you don't know about it.
Very high quality video. Excellent.
No wonder my favorite Overwatch player, Get Quaked On can be so fucking good at Overwatch, he does show his some of his arena shooter play from time to time in bits and pieces. But goddamn I can start to see why he remembers all these tricks he can exploit, like there's over like 40 different movement tricks with Doomfist and he knows them all and uses them consistently
Singleplayer Arena shooters:
-You run faster
-You usually fight 15-25 enemies (npcs)
-You don't reload, you just add ammo to your weapon
-You rely on movement and speed more
-You are usually alone, no ally or friend besides you
-You fight in open environments and big maps
Singleplayer Tactical shooters:
-You run slower
-You usually fight less that 8 enemies at once
-You reload
-You rely on strategy and tactics more
-You are usually in a team or a squad
-You are usually in a confined space or building
Feel like a god for playing an arena FPS, actually I got into after hearing that to be a god at FPS games you need to get good at quake
@@dariusus9870 Yep. CSGO pro Roca is apparently extremely good at quake
@@bermuda333 The whole CS franchise is built off a Quake mod
@@ashscott6068 Uhh no CS 1.6 was a half life mod. (and yes I know half life is on a branch of the quake engine)
SK zet was a beast in Rocket Arena 3, a mod for Quake 3 Arena =)
@@bermuda333 Nah CS started from a mod Jess Cliffe helped develop called action quake 2 with lots of modern weapons and realistic scenarios
Wolfenstein Enemy Territory teached me a lot of stuff when I was young. Aim and trickjumping helped a lot later years in competitive CoD4 and CS GO .. I miss those days ...
good vid,good voice,nice job
come from
FlynnFlyTaggart
bro you've only really made one such video and it's absolutely great. I want to encourage you to do more of that. Please take the time. You're doing great work 🙏😌
I go here to FlynnFly Taggart,he say "You video is interesting and cool" :)
UT99 was my game. Then later i played UT2K4. The rush of adrenaline when in the zone i will never forget. Being so good at something that everything becomes second nature. I know many of us humans have that feeling with something in life. But for me it was when i was a kid and played Unreal.
great homage to the best genre
UT99 , Morpheus.. Definately my most played map , I literally knew locations of all pickups..
Liked, commented, and subscribed.
YO SAME :O
me 2
don't forget to fave!
Same
Smiley'd, blue'd, and fell out of bounds.
This was a really good video. I hope you'd consider making more analysis and/or genuinely educational genre primer videos like these.
Jesus this video is a straight banger
Good stuff mate, well researched and put together.
Ah, good old times of playing OpenArena on school computers.
MASTERPIECE. QC, new UT, and Toxikk are the main titles I play, but it's mostly QC since I can't seem to find a proper match in the other two. I tried Xonotic, but I dunno why I don't play it. Warsow I think has the largest player hitboxes and it's very easy to hit rails there, and I play it from time to time. I would love to play Reflex, but it's not free. QC:DE is waiting to be installed but now I want to try to finish doom 2016 on ultra nightmare pistol only.
Also, please make more vids
New ut is canceled :(
Warsow/Warfork has the best netcode. The hitboxes aren't specially big ;)
@@jal051 no, the hitboxes are just big af. I know i didn't click on (i missed him by a few pixels) a guy but it registers as a hit
@@Moco26 I coded it. I know what I'm saying.
First game I ever played was Unreal Tournament 99 when I was 4. Still one of my favorite games of all time! :)
This video summatizes well why nowdays FPS games like Call of Duty/Battlefield/Fortnite don't impress me in the slightest.
Hey what about valorant, csgo, halo infinite and all that other stuff. It isn't just Fortnite and cod that's boring
@@kek8726 Halo and Cs had their merit at their time, but Valorant is just CS + Overwatch.
@@kek8726 halo isnt in the same league as cs, most consider counter strike to be the most well made and skillful fps of all time along with arena shooters
awesome video with a great selection of footage showcasing each game played at a competent level. very good as a reference!
Resurrection of quake is my dream
diabotical
diabotical
diabotical
A damn fine video. I didn't like FPS games until I came across Quake II on the N64 which only got deeper as I bought my first PC and also bought Quake 4. I spent around 9K hours into the game since I first played it in the mid 00's to about 2014. Quake 4 and Quake like games became the ONLY games I started to play. Once you master movement or at least have a high understanding of the system, no other games can give you the same rush. But that was also my problem, the movement mechanics were so amazing that I couldn't slow down, something CoD taught me later on. lol. I had to bomb around as fast as possible EVERYWHERE AND ALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL the TIME. lol
Holy crap, 10/10 video
While not technically an arena shooter, Quake TF was a blast to play in the 90s. Still one of my fav all time games.
Nice video,I wish this FPS genre is popular again,or just as popular as Milsim shooters. :(
I saw the title & had to take a look.
Great soundtrack ✔
Awesome content✔
The best gaming genra ✔
I play many different games like the battlefield series & the milsim fps games but I started out with quake 100 years ago & arena shooters are my favorite type of fps game & UT4 is my all time favorite game ive ever played. I see alot of arena shooters in your list that ive never heard of. Toxxic was fun but I didn't want to buy the full game for some reason. Im gonna take a look at some of these. Ive recently gotten back into UT4 and I found I missed it. Btw to Epic Games, Boo Fortnite.. Get back to UT4 & finish it. lol
Of course I liked & subbed.
I miss LawBreakers!!.... this songs gave me very good memories! Anyway, good video!!!
I may not be good in arena shooters, but by god do I love them.
even losing is fun
@@God-ch8lq lmao yeah, seeing your body explode is hilarious.
I wouldn't even get tilted if someone killed me with a rocket launcher
Quake was the source of my good aim today. Especially tracking
A lot of people consider arena shooters as natural aim trainers because of the inclusion of all aiming styles.
Something that often gets lost in talking about the immense skill ceiling arena FPS have is just how low the skill floor is. Quakeworld wasn't a cultural juggernaut just because it allowed for complex movement, tactics, and strategy; it was also easy as cake to start playing. There's no loadouts to prepare with fifty different assault rifles and SMGs to choose from, or killstreaks to know about and plan around, or individual characters with their own weapons and abilities. You spawn, run around until you find a weapon, and go to town until you find better stuff or die. The most complicated the genre gets in terms of baseline required knowledge are powerups like Quad Damage or Megahealths (which are self explanatory) and secondary fires on guns, which is just a matter of pressing RMB and seeing what happens.
I think this gets overlooked so often because arena shooter evangelists want to really press on how skillful the games are under the pretense that a game being more skillful is necessarily superior to a game that isn't, and I don't entirely disagree with that impulse. But there are more players in the world than just those who want to put in the time and effort to reach for that skill ceiling, and it's important to think about how the average, non-gdlk player will see a game.
I personally love how easy it is to hop into a FFA and start blasting, but we also have to admit that we're a long way from 1996. For most players, such ground-level simplicity is just too basic for them to have fun with for very long, but the intricacies of what the genre can offer are too involved and complicated for those players to even see, let alone want to learn through grinding out movement tutorials or getting stomped by the people who do know them (the rocket jump's nuances in the video is a great example, but strafejumping/bunnyhopping is even more immediately necessary to know yet _far_ more complicated to learn). So for the average player, Quake is either "that game where you just run around and shoot rockets at each other" or "that game where you just run around and shoot rockets at each other except that some people are flying around like fucking speed demons and I have no idea what the fuck they're doing."
So there's a somewhat-paradoxical trend within the game playing demographic: low to mid-level players who have been around games for a long time want to have something more complex and nuanced than "look at a guy and shoot him til he's dead," but that still feel more accessible than the complicated and counter-intuitive layers that high level AFPS design offers. The CoDs and Overwatches of the world have answered this demand through having a higher skill floor with the aforementioned loadouts, killstreaks, character abilities, etc, and guide their playerbase through that higher skill floor in different ways - limiting player choices through XP unlocks in CoD, detailed tutorials and characters with different levels of complexity in Overwatch, etc. Thus, even though their games have far lower skill ceilings than AFPSs, they're able to make most players feel engaged by raising the floor enough that they get a sense of navigating depth learning how to play the game without feeling overwhelmed, and then have a guided means to go deeper from there through unlocks or character choices adding new layers of depth gradually.
It's this desire to appeal to the experienced but still lower end player that made Quake Live introduce loadouts and Champions introduce character abilities alongside loadouts. They're controversial decisions among the old guard, to be sure. But it isn't controversial to say that AFPSs haven't been much more than a cult phenomenon for a long time, and if there's going to be any kind of resurgence of the genre, there has to be some kind of answer for the desires of those players (unless there's some kind of FGC-style scene of people that regularly get together to compete and create a culture around that).
But maybe there doesn't. Maybe 5 people a day playing Reflex is fine if those five people are the ones who care about the depth of the genre. After all, it only takes two to duel, right?
Nice observations, and well expressed.
On your last point about loadouts and abilities, I feel that they detract from the game as it destroys the balance of the game, in favour of appealing to a broader audience. I'd much rather the games retain their superior balanced design with fewer players than introduce mechanics (champion abilities) that lessen the design in the hopes of attracting more players (this hasn't worked e.g. Quake Champions). Regardless, AFPS had their time in the sun and those that care about the games are still playing in their tight knit communities. The fact these games are still around with players 20+ years after creation, whereas games like CoD need new releases every year to remain relevant, prove the superiority of AFPS.
This essay deserves a video in its own right, well done. (not sarcastic)
games don't need to attract new players, they need to retain them. most players of games have barely invested more than a few hours, if that into them. how are you going to retain players when your movement mechanics consist of "haha shift go brrr"? you shouldn't care about retaining a casual audience who can't even be assed to learn something basic like rocket jumping if you care about having deep game mechanics. compromising the core mechanics will compromise your core fanbase who actually care about the game
great video! I miss playing these games.
"There will always be room for these games"
Next suggested video: "The Fall of Quake, Unreal and Arena FPS | Death of A Genre"
Hmm, getting some mixed messages here.
Bethesda totally mismanaged quake champions, but the game is fun, and there are a few, dedicated players.
The genre is "dead" in that I don't think it will ever be at the forefront again, but I don't think it will ever fully go away either.
Arena shooters will never die!
Hella funny reading some of these comments. Saying CS is harder or shows more skill than Quake or Unreal is just a crock of shit. And goes to show none of these kids know what they’re talking about. Nothing compares to a Quake duel or Unreal DM 1v1. Cs aim at a corner lol. Its like checkers to chess in all realness. Why do you think summit and shroud didn’t play QC? They BOTH said it was too hard and the skill ceiling was too high. Quake Champions is free. DL it and get that ass whooped a few times CS go gods lol. Where all that aim wont save you. All aim no brain doesn’t do well around these parts.
Really well done, just wish arena shooters would make a come-back. I'm a long-time Quaker, and just got Quake Champions, loving it!
me: 36 years old, still there. arena shooters for life. the only way.
same here, got addicted to the genre around 2000, Quake 3.
I think the most recent "mainstream" games that showed some inspirations from arena shooters are Titanfall 2 with the movement and Halo with the weapon variety and power ups.
Holy shit man such a great video
Thanks for this video, finally something I can show my mates why I play Quake and why I stopped playing the mainstream FPS/BRs - those games just limit your potential to an insane level, and I just can't tolerate those games anymore.