yeah unreal championship not getting online support on xbox one x was a hard hit. i was so looking forward to play that again... i even bought a new copy as soon as the first wave of retro-compatible games was announced, and uc2 was literally the last game to added to the list of back compatible games.
Yer I miss arena shooters :( need more games like unreal, quake, the old halos, at least doom is going strong but the new doom even as no classic multiplayer
I grew up in the early-mid 00's with a cheap pc capable of running not much more than Quake 3 and UT99. I was a kid and I seen these games as the greatest thing ever made, with a great fanbase and the best gamemodes. The music and the maps were something fantastic for my eyes and I felt like on an action movie. Years passed now that I'm 21 I can't believe how things changed, how the great fanbase of the games from the 90's and 00's turned into a mass of toxic kids with an extremely awful bad taste (Battle Royale, pfft). I can't believe how the most important and fashion games of when I was younger (Quake, Halo, Crysis, UT, Q:ET) are almost something inexistent and forgotten. The community should keep these gems alive, we should revive them.
As someone who plays a lot of fighting games and also loves so much arena shooters, you made a good point. There's a lot of evidence which shows that people still like these genres, it's just that it's hard for them to come in because of the many stupid mistakes companies make all the time. No one fools himself by believing that these genres will ever become mainstream again, it's just not the same world anymore, but if things are done right, they can easily become a big, dedicated niche.
the thing is, people who grew up playing quake and unreal remember full well the era where skins, models, maps, and mods were 100% FREE. something that is like holy water to vampires like today's Epic (in name only) and Bethesda
people today forget idea of making mods for fun. now you see so many mods for resident evil or skyrim... being sold through patreon subscription or whatever! madness
@@kurisuchiinathecrocodile333 its an unfortunate result of capitolism, and the expansion of services like paypal and patreon. If doing something you absolutely love can become your career, and instead of having to struggle to work on it between the hours of your shitty 9-5 and your moonlight job it could replace those jobs, wouldnt you do it too. Sure free mods are terrific, but paid mods arent the devil you are making them out to be. At least not in all cases.
@@kurisuchiinathecrocodile333 I wouldnt mind paying a sub based 5 or 10 bucks continuos stream of mods from a random guy honestly, but skins nowadays cost way too much let alone mods which are almost not existant in modern titles
The sad thing about QC is that despite still being developed (albeit very slowly and with little new content), the community doesn't have the ability to work on the game. I'm sure there's plenty of Quakers who would do the devs' job for them, but they're just not given the opportunity
Nah that's bullshit, most arena fps players hate Q:C because of that C part. It's Quakewatch, screw that. New UT was the closest but Epic gave up on it because of bullshit Fortnite
death of a genre? q1,q2,q3 all still played... dead is quake champs rofl... there's just no matchmaking in game... you have to go to IRC and Discord servers to get duel opponents.... quaker community has coded a system where u type .qw [message] in console and it's broadcasted in the discord server / irc networks... and u just wait until someone joins the server to accept your challenge for a duel... there's even some stats/ranking websites... would hardly call it a dead game/genre when people are playing it : )) and im pretty sure q2 is also being ported/recoded the same way as ezQuake/nQuake was... Pretty sure quake aint dieing any time soon...
I get what you mean but I mean if there's no online matchmaking and I have to hunt down discord servers just to *maybe* find a game, it's kinda dead chief
It's crazy to me Epic just straight up abandoned the UT project. I mean damn you even got the community to do most of the work for you for free. Something I remember a lot of people criticizing them for at the time. I understand they perhaps didn't want anything competing with Fortnite after it blew up. But I think the playstyles were different enough it wouldn't have mattered. It's almost like there has to be something else to it behind the scenes we may never know about. Office politics maybe. Meanwhile modern warfare shooters keep putting jetpacks, and wallrunning in their games now since they are a dying fad so they are trying to be more like Arena shooters just keeping one hit kills, and aim down sights lol.
Fortnite is garbage because all you do is run around getting blisters on your fkn fingers, then you finally encounter someone and oh, great, its Victory.. 1 kill...FFS....So lame it makes me sick.
Heh even 1 year ago I was already super annoyed and sick of fugly Christmas skins which would also give u 3x more chance of wasting loot boxes for ugly crap. Those stupid devs don't realize who don't give a damn about their skins and want actual game content!
It's not quite like that, it's just that arena shooters don't sell anymore, they could literally make anything else and win more from that than making one from this genre, which is sad, because arena shooters are in desperate need for a rework to make them more consistent and less situational, also more accessible for new players on FPS games while still keeping that skill ceiling.
This would have been great, though UT and Quake Champions would have succeeded even without these things if managed and supported properly, I think. The Unreal series has never been as technically open as the Quake games, unfortunately. No source ports etc. for Unreal, UT99 etc.
Yeah, UT:Chaos is probably the best example. But honestly, Quake were the source of so many new game modes, future franchises and not to mention it laid the foundation for Valve's Source engine. Kinda ez to see why tho, it was probably the first real 3d game(there are technicalities that people use to name other games using 3d pre-Quake), and after Quake 2 were created it got completely open source. All hail to John Carmack's vision of keeping the games alive after release.
some Indie dev company could make a quakelike game wich has all the modern QoL stuff, minus the overachieveing graphics.... good graphics always ruin the competitive feel to a FPS games... i didnt last in quake champions that long... netcode sucked in closed beta too tho... :D atleast it still felt like a quake game
I don't know. After I finished Doom Eternal I was actually searching for a Multiplayer with similarly fast gameplay. Now I started to play Quake Champions.
The thing is, back then, only PC enthusiasts had access to the technology required to play games like UT and Quake. The introduction and success of consoles means the demographic has changed.
Yeah it really shocks me how huge the console demographic actually is. I can't use a controller, can't do shit with one, and to think some people play everything with one is just mind blowing to me.
@@GlamStacheessnostalgialounge I would be on of those people, I play on pc and Xbox and use controller every chance I have regardless of it being "less accurate", I just found kbm uncomfortable.
Well now it seems consoles are finally getting native mouse and keyboard support so hopefully we can go back to movement based precision aiming shooters. I'm sick of the slow tactical shooters like cs and r6 siege and im also sick of hero shooters like overwatch.
@@DonVanPelican123 I would like to see something like apex but with a way smaller map (so you dont waste gameplay time running around 15 mins before action) with some buff skills and a lot of gore and serious character design and free for all game mode please
Quake Champions never should have done the hero shooter thing. Most people hated the idea of abilities in Quake and yeah it took the devs forever to balance them. They should have just removed them. Their balances, tweaks, fixes, and updates also take way too long. Also their menus are complete garbage. The complete opposite of user friendly. I gave up shortly after it hit Steam. A dev team who doesn't listen to feedback equal shit.
Remember that overwatch created this champion approach and pushed it to far for other shooters to measure up to the hype, the same happened to rainbow six siege and then COD got plaged with it. The hero thing is not a bad concept on it self, but requires fine tuning like normal mobas do, like league and Dota that have extensive years of balance changes, and still cant have it completly figured out yet. Mobas are just a more controlled environment, FPS are not.
The purity was the hook , if you won it was because you were a better player , I've never had that feeling since , to me quake was digital heroin hahah
I still can't get over the deaths of these two titans of game series. From the first moment I heard about Overwatch and Fortnite I hated them with a passion.
I get Fortnite, considering the company that made Unreal is now pouring all of its resources into this new golden calf, but Overwatch? Ain’t Blizzard’s fault that Bethesda left Quake out to die. :/ Don’t get me wrong, those bastards at Blizzard did a LOT wrong, but people playing follow the leader with their (last true) passion project isn’t on them.
I still don't understand how anybody could think that Overwatch is a good game, I put over 400+ hours into the game with friends and the only fun I ever had with it was when I was completely stomping on the enemy team and trolling my teammates. Unfortunately making constant poop jokes (seriously) with the intention of annoying a certain teammate got me fucking banned.
Thank you for the really good description of the problem. We only need 2 to 3 developers for UT4, the costs are manageable. These may be around $ 350k a year. There is currently no viable FPS Arena shooter that is a pity, UT4 has a lot of potential. Maybe Epic can upload the best community maps on their Quickplay servers. So that new players see that there are also new maps. This adjustment may not take as long.
I don't know that "currently no viable FPS Arena shooter" is necessarily correct; there's this little indie game called Splitgate that's incredibly fleshed out and getting regular upgrades.
Man, I only started PC gaming a couple of years ago, and having played a wide variety of shooters from Doom to UT to TF2 to CS:GO and even a little Fortnite, I can safely say that arena shooters blow everything else out of the water, in terms of skill and community, not to mention overall enjoyment. I'd rather play Dusk then CoD or any other tactical shooter, and I love tactical shooters. I'm 18! I wasn't even alive when this stuff was popular! We need more developers like NewBlood.
Duel is amazing mode, but its stressful as hell to play. Also you must be really really good mechanically to have chance to win. There are some videos there Shourd plays quake and he is DESTROYED in that game. As amazing duel in arena FPS is it will never be popular because of skill requirement.
giedmich yea Shroud has great aim but that’s not enough to be successful at quake which goes without saying that any average joe will get squashed instantly at any Quake duel. I’d hang on for a good 3 or 5 minutes to where if I screw up and get killed, it’s over when the other player controls every weapon and armor pickup and mega.
@@MercenaryOrangeTV ...I think that's what killed it. The difference is just to much to make up for a new player. Once they die 2 or 3 times in a row, game over, cause the opponent has total map control. They should have focused on team play with capture the flag.
@@mikehoncho8896 It's just too much going on for a newbie to understand. period. game may look simple but there's alot going on and its freakin' deep. Just about the entire population on epic games got scared off from diabotical so that's no suprise. took me almost 20 minutes to find a FFA game to just play.
Look, between Doom and Quake. I'll pick Doom any day, there's no discussion there for me, but even I don't support the change from QuakeCon to "DoomCon". It's obvious they're just trying to kill Quake because Champions underperformed and are using the Doom name to cannibalize it. That doesn't sit well with me at all. Let's not pretend that Doom didn't almost die after Doom 3. But look at it now. It hasn't been as popular as it is right now since the 90's! Believe in your franchises. Gather the right people for the job and bring it back to the limelight. If you did it with Doom and Wolfenstein, you can do it with Quake.
More than making Doom kill Quake, I think Bethesda's goal (or at least id Tech's goal) was to clean its name from so many failures in a row, mostly because they saw the first Doom a few years ago did pretty well.
They Could bring Back quake in its OG singleplayer First glory. Then Tack on the classic Arena MP and done. Get it right and Boom. The Franchise is Back in the fight
@@hell_march6652 They haven't dealt with Lovecraftian lore, which is what I would like to see return to Quake. Lovecraft is still very very popular. But they abandoned that universe.
This makes me incredibly sad to see, especially the Unreal portion. I was always a big arena FPS fan, though I never really had a PC of my own to enjoy it during the glory days so I was super excited for the announcement and was one of the first to participate in the pre-alpha. I moved on to Overwatch patiently waiting for progress on the alpha of UT until one day they just stopped coming. The surprising thing is despite Epics complete disrespect the community still develops the game and TO THIS DAY. I'll still get on the broken alpha and have a blast, the gameplay is amazing and I could only imagine what it could have been. Overwatch with its dramatic changes to the gameplay and desire to add new mechanics with heroes every few months that can dramatically raise the skill floor make it a frusturating place to play competitively and will never fill the gap for the genre. Luckily I think there's hope with Diabotical making great progress and ready to pick up the pieces, and Gearbox's untitled Project 1v1 which I think was a great take on the ability/class shooters of today in AFPS format. With the freedom and creativity of the weapons and movement to the wide variety of modes I think this genre brings out the best in talented players and hope to see it succeed.
I don't think the genre is dead at all... the industry goes through cycles as to what's most popular.. for instance I love rts games they aren't the most popular because of the very high skill floor and gap .. it's a niche genre with a hardcore following ... I think the problem with gamers now is they see something that isn't the most popular or more niche and think that it is dying
@@southpaw5041 South Paw Its not, I still get on quake and have a ton of fun. And there's plenty of competition to be had, the skill gap is high but I can appreciate that, when I get demolished by another player I can understand exactly why I lost and learn from the way he moves and shoots. In OW these days it's cause someone pressed Q better or had a busted team comp. lol
i was caught off guard when he just said "see ya" and ended the video all of the sudden.... seriously tho, great video, i absolutely loved it. UT4 still has active games going every single night, and tournaments with cash prizes (organized by the community). a huge group of us meet up at dreamhack to play UT4 at the BYOC. long live UT4 EDIT: "huge group" meaning around 45
I still play UT3 and 2K4 to this day, and TONS of Quake III Arena (against bots, hi-res textures, mods etc.) because modern FPS are just too damn SLOW. I've been looking at some of the past twitch FPS that I overlooked back in the day like Tribes and am looking into some of the indie projects for fast arena FPS that are in development. Just give me a decent, balanced, fast paced arena FPS, let me play against bots, let the community manage their own servers for online play, and let the community develop and release assets/maps for it so that it isn't dead as soon as the developers/publisher are no longer interested in maintaining it and I'm happy. Don't tie it to some draconian launcher (looking at you Epic), implement basic DRM/anti-cheat (like maybe just put it on Steam?) and I'm good. I hate that games like Quake Champions and UT4 just withered and died because the developers/publishers decided they had to follow industry trends and couldn't complete these games (or just open source them to let the community do it, which I'm certain they would based on the fact that new content is still being created for the older iterations of these games to this day). I get that console gaming is popular and that twitch shooters and console controls don't mix, but there are a lot of hardcore mouse/keyboard warriors out there who aren't content with the likes of Fortnite, Overwatch, PUBG and the latest WWI/WWII 'realistic' shooter and just want their speed back. We're not asking for the world, just a decent base game with bots, a few basic game modes, a few maps, and the source code so that the community can do what you won't. Leave it open so that the community can host its own servers (because we know you will just shut your servers down as soon as the game isn't making enough money) and let us play our games. Is that really so much to ask?
nope, UT4 is still alive, you can find a match in 6 seconds avg it's all due to people like me refusing to let it die also everyone's suprisingly nice, 0 toxicity, which is something i havn't seen in any other FPS so far
@@God-ch8lq That's awesome, I'm glad to hear it :)! I knew the community for these games was still out there, and it's nice to hear that the players are treating each other well. I'll definitely have to check it out (assuming I can actually get UT up and running on my current rig). Thanks for filling me in on your experiences with the game.
It all comes down to money. Classic FPS like Unreal & Quake can't be used to continuously milk people in the form of "On-line services" as they're single sell items.
I liked the comparison you made to fighting games, because recent events with SFV, DoA6, and MK11 have shown that even the cash cows in fighting game communities will stop playing those games if they get too greedy or commit too many sins. Another factor is the "runoff" of players who, instead of continuing to live in the glacier of SFV, flow down to less populated games like Guilty Gear, UNIST, Melty Blood, or something else entirely. There has been a comparitive explosion in player bases for those games over the last few years ever since SFV tanked, which has been very healthy for the scene. >most multiplayer games don't last for a year, so why do investors keep chasing huge hits? It's easy to gamble when you're playing with someone else's money. As always, I'm looking forward to your next video.
The game is fucking amazing, I just wish there was a traditional multiplayer. Imagine an arena shooter with the movement and map layouts of doom eternal, that would be a dream come true.
It didnt revive anything, the game is missing the skilled movement that is signature of any AFPS since Quake/UT. Doom Eternal feels like a console platformer with that grab and double air dash. Feels like playing Darksiders, just more pewpew and faster.
@joseaca Personally, I still don't have much hope in it succeeding because of the platform it is releasing on. But I still really want it to and can't blame Yames for taking the exclusivity deal.
Good comparison to fighting comunity. Arena shooters not dead, there is still players, but there is no good developers for them. QC instead of fixing performance making shit i don't even know about. The game can't handle 8 jumping capsules that shoot bullets. 😂😂😂. Another problem is lack of training modes for newbies. Look at CS GO: comunity aim maps, death match where you dont collect anything, just choose your gun and train it AGAINS PLAYERS, not bots, on solo map you can see grenade trajectory. And look at those old veterans arenas, quake and unreal. All you can do is shoot bots. In death matches you die in 2 seconds and cant collect anything. They need to learn from CS GO.
@@MercenaryOrangeTV i'm not about loadouts, i'm talking about training mods with infinite ammo for every gun. Unholy trinity is good, but it can be better.
AgentOrangeTV CSGO surely isn’t an arena, but still arena games should adopt some col features cs has, as community maps for training, more training modes, ecc.
I'll take an arena shooter over "realistic" COD or two-weapon limited slow movement FPS'w anyway. Even though I'm honestly not the hest at multiplayer. 😂 I still rather like Team Fortress 2 as well. Overwatch i wanted to get into but i hear less and less positive things about it every time. Doom 2016's multiplayer was close to being great but screwed up by modernization with two-weapon limits alone. I don't get why that was never just patched out or why Doom Eternal decided Battlemode was enough. I still hop on and play UT2004 against bots now and then.
Commenter of the future here, about to say that now we got further confirmation that the Arena FPS is being left behind for good, as we got news that Epic Games literally not only is gonna completely shutdown and obliterate Unreal Tournament 4 in January 24, 2023; but they also completely delisted all their Unreal games from all digital storefronts (these games are Unreal 1998, Unreal Tournament 1999, Unreal Tournament 2004, and Unreal II). Man it sucks that this genre of FPSs is literally stuck in the past now, with not many even wanting to attempt it now.
6:50 Yeah, you see over the years Epic (and the more active members of the community as well) realized that there's a fundamental issue with crowd-sourced development - it takes more time to look through shit on the forums and give people guidance, which MAY OR MAY NOT be taken (it's not like these people are employees, they just do what they want), than to just sit down and develop stuff yourself. You get all the problems of a top down management without any of its benefits. "Listening to fans" is also more of a buzzword than anything else. There's exactly 1 thing that the community is good at: identifying problems/bugs/imbalance. Solving them, not so much. Even though the game was very early pre-alpha, it had the most polished netcode ever with great performance and 0 crashes due to all the feedback. However, when it comes to design decisions, the community can absolutely never agree on anything, because everybody wants to solve said problems in a different way. Sure, this creates plenty of ideas on the forums, but once again we're back to having to look through all that shit. Not to mention that the developers themselves at Epic will also have their own ideas for where to go next, which are once again different from anything anyone in the community came up with. Always.
If anything, with how ridiculously successful the new Doom games have been, now is possibly THE BEST time to focus on Quake and Unreal Tournament. Doom revitalized itself in such an earthshattering way as an amazing game (albeit NOT the multiplayer aspect) that you'd think developers would see that and go to the drawing board of "How can we take what DOOM did, and apply it to Unreal Tournament/Quake?" Disappointment is an understatement for all of this. Unreal Tournament was my addiction as a kid and I'm sad that it never got a chance
They were pretty equal back then tbh, more people were playing area shooters around me at the time. Historical stats aren't available as far as I can tell
Im a UT fan but UT4 was empty, hard to run even on lowest settings and map updates where slow. I quitted because it was overwhelming to my pc hardware. Meanwhile quake champions somehow run better and was really fun to play when i could. It had one of the worst netcodes ever done in humankind history (ironsight was better wtf). 9 out of 10 games couldn't get played because of a bug with the netcode where you get stuck in the ground and every hit detection you make is considered a miss. I left for a year, then cameback and it was still there with minor changes and not even a single netcode bug fixed. Never came back ever since. This games died because of the lack of effort from the devs to fix them and improve them. At least bethesda gave tools and a fully finished product to work with. With this games they didn't even finish them!
I think alot of the problem comes from the fact that Quake3 basically perfected the formula ... Where do you go from there ?? And maybe it's due to the fact gaming has a broader audience people lookin for instant gratification not months on the grind learning and gettin your ass handed to you daily , so the arena shooter is for the hardcore masicist ... The minority ... Quakeworld 200 ping rollerball mouse ... The good old days hahaha
I wish arena shooters still would be alive like 15 years ago.. All those new FPS games are just terrible. Ive had a BLAST playing UT when i was a kid. Thanks to epic for ruining my childhood dream..
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Most new FPS are slow paced copy paste boring games with lame map design and lack of creativity. Trying to copy realism instead of going on a crazy way. Glad for DOOM Eternal, I would love to have something like that as a multiplayer focused, competitive madness!
I mean if you had a blast playing Unreal Tournament when you were a kid and then you should thank Epic for making your childhood dream lol. You enjoyed the game when they made it during your childhood and now they decided to move on to other series. It's all right at least we got to enjoy it when it was at its peak
2:38 THIS IS SUCH BULLSHIT. I love playing with a gamepad in games that are designed for it, but first person shooters were never meant to be played this way. I've ranted and raved about how bad the aiming mechanic is in Resident Evil 7, and most people had no idea what I was on about.
Did you seriously just show TF2 cosmetics as an example of peak user content, instead of countless game levels and models people have created for it (and for nearly every other Valve game)?
Epic died for me with abandonment of UT without any word. They are just sellouts and they don't give a shit about their fanbase, that was with them since the first Unreal in 1998.
Still play QC about 2 hours a day. Knowing what Epic did to UT, I will avoid putting my considerable disposable income into anything Epic made if I can help it.
Look we get money is the factor here, but they literally ditched their original fan base that made them the massive AAA company they are today. Its the biggest slap in the face ever
Overwatch is dead when the devs fail to balance their class, and instead they force players to fit the role. This limit people from playing their favourite character, and cause long queue for offensive characters. I love overwatch, but with long queue and forced team role, it limit the freedom of playing your favourite character.
I don't understand why developers are insisting on releasing their games so early. What thought makes a developer think "Our game is completely unfinished, full of bugs, can hardly run on most systems, is unbalanced and unfun, lets release it all we have to do is slap an early access tag on it" All of the small studio game releases i've been looking forward to over the past several years have lost or never even obtained a consistent loyal player base a long time before the actual release. Diabotical is sadly looking like they are going to make the same mistake. The kickstarter released almost 3 years ago and the game is still in such an unfinished development state that it doesn't even qualify for the insanely low quality standards "early access" games require. The community is pushing them to release it and placing them between a rock and a hard place. Release it early and watch everyone quit because of the bad graphics, bugs, poor optimization, etc etc.. If they wait till its actually finished, which will probably be several more years and by then everyone will have forgotten about it.
Because beta-testing (it doesn't matter the development phase, that's the generally accepted term) it's really hard, and not cheap. You gotta hire a lot of people to do the same stuf millions of times. So why waste money on professionals when you can make players do it for free in massive ammounts and even get money from them? Off course, the last phrase is a joke but I wouldn't be surprised if that's how those companies think now.
people have became tolerant and used to it, so why test it fully when players will do it themselves, at least that's what they think, plus they always need to make sure they have a steady paycheck for employees.
Those that left Epic in 2012 were right - The Tencent acquisition really was a bad omen for the company's future. But that's how capitalism works isn't it? Also fuck Bethesda; though I love it when they just outright forget to put DRM in the game like they did with Rage 2 and Doom Eternal, I live for these screw-ups
Thank you. There were other examples I thought about mentioning but I am saving it for a future video. But basically RTS and Classic RPGs have also found a resurgence recently after years of people thinking they were dead. I truly do believe that time has shown that "dead genres" like those and AFPS can come back if the right game comes out.
And don't forget about that travesty that was LawBreakers, ironically involving the seminal but apparently also hubris-plagued CliffyB from the Unreal franchise. A game that shows you the dangers of DRM, having been rendered unplayable with the master servers shut down.
@@Wylie288 I liked Lawbreakers, wasn't a pure blood Arena shooter but it was a lot more involved than other newer games. Shame they couldn't even let us have our own servers, that way it could still be playable.
Fucking Cliffy B... He of ALL people should have realized all the dangers that LawBreakers was stumbling into, but he just completely ignored it all. Now UT99 is more active than his game.
@@DrPainter9896 Well, they kinda did eventually. I tried to get back into UT4 with some friends and we couldn't find a server for love or money. So yeah it is pretty much completely dead now.
quake champions had a memory leak and used like 12 gb ram
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Tried QC and yes it's shit when it comes to optimization. Insanely bad. The game itself is good but it just made me wish to play Quake 3 Arena. And then I play that again.
The Arena Shooters fans are ungrateful, sadly they ignored the attempt to revive the genere when Nexuiz reappeared. They just simply love complaining that the genere is dead, and when a developer tries to please them, they will ignore those games completely
Nexuiz was slow and laggy, it wasn't a true fast paced shooter. The remake/commercialized one anyway. Old open-source Nexuiz was cool but a bit old now
Three years later. Epic killed Unreal and UT completely by disabling the master servers and removing most of the games of the franchise from Steam. They are still available on GOG but the question is how long will they last there...
Nowadays you hear youngsters at work bragging about how they just got 40 kills on Fortnite or CoD. I instantly feel old because its hard to take them seriously.
I think the reason why the genre died is because no one wanted to innovative the genre. The only developers to innovative was halo by bringing that arena shooter feeling to controllers but everyone else were just making quake/unreal clones. Some other developers decided to bring arena shooter game modes into their tactical shooters which I find dope. Lack of innovation is the reason really.
Epic has a game that could be bigger than Fortnite but unless you're an og you have probably never played it, Unreal Championship 2 needs a remaster or create Unreal Championship 3
Paragon always was kinda dead because of poor emplimentations of core mechanics, and because of that making it almost impossible to balance. On top of that if game like that don't blew up on start, like in first week, then it almost destined to die slowly and painfully, there are hundreds of games that been supported for years while devs have less and less money to work on it
You know what would be hillarious? That the answer comes from Halo modding. Imagine, MCC PC SDK releases, Halo Pro Mod comes out, and turns out to be the next big arena shooter hit.
I love Halo as a console shooter but it's just too slow to still be competitive with mouse aim. At the high level every battle rifle fight will be a coin flip and even at average level people will get sick of having little control over their success. Unless "Pro Mod" implies smaller hitboxes, faster run speed and more important items on the map I don't see how a Halo on PC could reach the complexity Quake, UT and Tribes fans are used to.
This video still pains me 3 years later. I suck at AFPS, a lot. But I still have a lot of fun playing them because I feel like I'm constantly challenged and engaged, I feel like I can bounce back even if I have a 10 frags difference after 2 minutes only, because that's a thing you can actually do in AFPS. In most other FPS you just can't, in battle royale for example, if you don't get good loot on landing chances are you are gonna get rolled in the first fight. In heroes based shooters, of the other team has stronger heroes, you are going to get rolled. I feel like a huge reason why AFPS are fizzling out is also because they are effectively harder to play than any other shooter, they require a LOT of multitasking compared to something like CoD or Valorant. I think Quake Champions is doing slightly better now compared to when the video was made, but it's still a far cry from Q3 or QL, UT is basically dead since Epic decided to take off their store all the titles and I doubt we will actually see a new one anytime soon. Diabotical I still have to try, but from what I see it's a very solid game. In the esports sphere in particular, I think AFPS are also the most fair an balanced kind of shooters. They are also VERY easy to understand as a viewer (it's just a 1v1 with a scoreboard on top) compared to stuff like Valorant or Overwatch. Even Quake Champions despite having abilities is still more balanced and fair than stuff like Apex, for the simple reason that both players have the same things to work on. And I really think AFPS came far too early as an esports to get the recognition they deserve.
Both studios (Epic Games and ID) fumbled the ball horribly with their sequels back in the 2000's and that was that. The Tribes studio also screwed up with Tribes 3. It would be interesting to see where Unreal Tournament and Quake might be today if they had received proper sequels. Unreal Tournament might still be a leading FPS today if Epic Games had produced proper sequels to UT99. It's hard to say that Epic really put much effort or investment into UT4.
They didn't 'fall' as much as they just evolved and were part of the machinations that got us to the gaming utopia we experience today! I'm a Gen X'er so I know what truly bad video games look like
Maybe what im going to say is not an issue for too many people but what kills Quake champions for me is the ausence of dark badass demon esthetic. Take a look to Quake II and III and compare to Champions. If the new comunity rather play Overwatch maybe they just dont deserve to enjoy Quake.
I think you're kind of wrong when you blame the added Champion System and issues with graphical and gameplay performances. I agree that graphical and gameplay issues are a huge reason why people don't like to play that certain game, but it never became less popular because of that. Arena FPS was peeking in 1990's-2000. And as we see with games that have been around for 10-15 years, they fall in player base. Not because of the game doesn't perform 100% (graphical and gameplay), but because the interest isn't there anymore. And to keep the interest you got to advertise it if you wanna keep it competiting with other popular games. People born in 1998-2000 doesn't have a clue what Quake and Arena FPS' are because they never heard of it. I'm a lucky guy cause i got 2 brothers who made me play Warcraft, Quake, DotA etc. And i even believe that the Arena FPS genre could make a comback if they started to advertise and making the genre into something more like a 5v5 and a teamgame. Today games aren't even working properly either graphical or gameplay performance wise. You look at League of Legends and you see that the whole base of how it's built up is completely fucking stupid and in many of people's opinion shouldn't be competitive due to the lack of strategic gameplay and game mechanics
Remember to try out Diabotical
It's free on epic or it was idk
No offense, but I have more fun playing Quake Champions ;)
@@KINGOR_RULES same
Don't need to put a new suit on a dead corpse...
@@KINGOR_RULES yep. People don't stop bitching about it. I miss those days when gore, stetetics and internet wasn't a problem.
Being a Quake or Unreal fan is so frustrating it’s insane.
especially if u are new and like it more than other games that are around nowadays
yeah unreal championship not getting online support on xbox one x was a hard hit. i was so looking forward to play that again... i even bought a new copy as soon as the first wave of retro-compatible games was announced, and uc2 was literally the last game to added to the list of back compatible games.
at least diabotical is coming out
I play alot of TF2. That game hasn't seen a major update since 2017 if you ecxlude the yearly halloween events.
@@222MovieMan Its in interesting state now for console to say the least :P (cough cough Spitfire) xD
The background music during the Unreal Tournament part makes me nostalgic.
Mechanism 8
Yer I miss arena shooters :( need more games like unreal, quake, the old halos, at least doom is going strong but the new doom even as no classic multiplayer
Still sad that eternal doesnt have normal mp. I loved doom 2016s mp.
@@WAND3R101 yer :(
@@WAND3R101 16's mp sucked who's idea was it to include loadouts?
I grew up in the early-mid 00's with a cheap pc capable of running not much more than Quake 3 and UT99. I was a kid and I seen these games as the greatest thing ever made, with a great fanbase and the best gamemodes. The music and the maps were something fantastic for my eyes and I felt like on an action movie. Years passed now that I'm 21 I can't believe how things changed, how the great fanbase of the games from the 90's and 00's turned into a mass of toxic kids with an extremely awful bad taste (Battle Royale, pfft). I can't believe how the most important and fashion games of when I was younger (Quake, Halo, Crysis, UT, Q:ET) are almost something inexistent and forgotten. The community should keep these gems alive, we should revive them.
The fact these games are considered dead by the developers and community has only driven my interest in playing them even more to this day.
Great video lad. I appreciate your good vocal audio. Keep it up
As someone who plays a lot of fighting games and also loves so much arena shooters, you made a good point. There's a lot of evidence which shows that people still like these genres, it's just that it's hard for them to come in because of the many stupid mistakes companies make all the time. No one fools himself by believing that these genres will ever become mainstream again, it's just not the same world anymore, but if things are done right, they can easily become a big, dedicated niche.
the thing is, people who grew up playing quake and unreal remember full well the era where skins, models, maps, and mods were 100% FREE.
something that is like holy water to vampires like today's Epic (in name only) and Bethesda
Nowadays it's pay to pay. Pay full price for a game with a 4th or more of the content locked away behind another pay wall.
@@robertdefibaugh1317 thats sucks
people today forget idea of making mods for fun. now you see so many mods for resident evil or skyrim... being sold through patreon subscription or whatever! madness
@@kurisuchiinathecrocodile333 its an unfortunate result of capitolism, and the expansion of services like paypal and patreon. If doing something you absolutely love can become your career, and instead of having to struggle to work on it between the hours of your shitty 9-5 and your moonlight job it could replace those jobs, wouldnt you do it too.
Sure free mods are terrific, but paid mods arent the devil you are making them out to be. At least not in all cases.
@@kurisuchiinathecrocodile333 I wouldnt mind paying a sub based 5 or 10 bucks continuos stream of mods from a random guy honestly, but skins nowadays cost way too much let alone mods which are almost not existant in modern titles
Meanwhile we're still making mods, maps & cosmetics for UT
Doing gods work.
As good as it all may be, you waste your time on this since the head developers aren't that interested to keep on going.
This gave tears in my eyes
Yeah I'm a cs major in progress and I've been making mods and stuff but I'm not that good cause I'm 19 and only knoenjava and python trying to learn c
The sad thing about QC is that despite still being developed (albeit very slowly and with little new content), the community doesn't have the ability to work on the game. I'm sure there's plenty of Quakers who would do the devs' job for them, but they're just not given the opportunity
They never died. The audience for them is there, as they seem to be clamoring in every comment section.
It's the devs who turned their backs on us.
Ya sure? Most arena fps just go play quake instead the recent arena fps and even then a lot of them are as total biscuit put it....posers
Nah that's bullshit, most arena fps players hate Q:C because of that C part. It's Quakewatch, screw that. New UT was the closest but Epic gave up on it because of bullshit Fortnite
death of a genre? q1,q2,q3 all still played... dead is quake champs rofl...
there's just no matchmaking in game... you have to go to IRC and Discord servers to get duel opponents....
quaker community has coded a system where u type .qw [message] in console and it's broadcasted in the discord server / irc networks... and u just wait until someone joins the server to accept your challenge for a duel...
there's even some stats/ranking websites... would hardly call it a dead game/genre when people are playing it : ))
and im pretty sure q2 is also being ported/recoded the same way as ezQuake/nQuake was...
Pretty sure quake aint dieing any time soon...
I get what you mean but I mean if there's no online matchmaking and I have to hunt down discord servers just to *maybe* find a game, it's kinda dead chief
Yes is sad
It's crazy to me Epic just straight up abandoned the UT project. I mean damn you even got the community to do most of the work for you for free. Something I remember a lot of people criticizing them for at the time. I understand they perhaps didn't want anything competing with Fortnite after it blew up. But I think the playstyles were different enough it wouldn't have mattered. It's almost like there has to be something else to it behind the scenes we may never know about. Office politics maybe.
Meanwhile modern warfare shooters keep putting jetpacks, and wallrunning in their games now since they are a dying fad so they are trying to be more like Arena shooters just keeping one hit kills, and aim down sights lol.
Epic doesn't even deserve the Unreal IP anymore.
The UT4 team was the team that initially developed Fortnite BR. They did it in their spare work hours.
Fortnite is garbage because all you do is run around getting blisters on your fkn fingers, then you finally encounter someone and oh, great, its Victory.. 1 kill...FFS....So lame it makes me sick.
@@arnox4554 Digital Extremes were the ones who really gave Unreal's soul anyway.
Given MW’s still making money I wouldn’t quite say it’s dying out, if one can call it life
quake champions still has christmas shit all over the maps. it's late march. the writing's on the wall.
busyak not only that but connecting to matches is hell
@@AcidYoru actually we just got an update and matchmaking is decently fast. I love Quake Champions!
Battle Royal is the final nail in the Arena coffin. IMO
Heh even 1 year ago I was already super annoyed and sick of fugly Christmas skins which would also give u 3x more chance of wasting loot boxes for ugly crap. Those stupid devs don't realize who don't give a damn about their skins and want actual game content!
Update circle is 3 Months.
I just want a remaster of Unreal Tournament 2004, at the very least.
UT99 for the win!
Had so much fun playing all the online mods, esp invasion rpg
@@Packieeeee I think UT2004 is definitely a better modding platform than UT99, though UT99 definitely has a better vanilla experience.
At least we have the Unreal Engine and Unity to make the kind of games we want.
@@arnox4554 UT2004
tho i may be biased cuz i grew up on it
To be fair, a lot if not most of the official maps for Team Fortress 2 were made by the community, not only the cosmetics.
I do believe even some weapons and a lot of the skins / war paints, too.
The difference is Valve never stopped supporting/adding community content to the game. And they also pay the creators.
@@eX1st4132 Yeah you can clearly tell Valve still cares about TF2.............
@@damsen978 it makes them money
And occasionally game modes, as well
Investors would rather gamble on the next golden cow over ensured steady income. This is a huge problem in more than just gaming.
Well said!
Amen Hydra...
Not just gaming. A steady stream income is bad for your stock portfolio. Doesn’t show growth, so it limits outside investment into your company.
Wouldn't you?
It's not quite like that, it's just that arena shooters don't sell anymore, they could literally make anything else and win more from that than making one from this genre, which is sad, because arena shooters are in desperate need for a rework to make them more consistent and less situational, also more accessible for new players on FPS games while still keeping that skill ceiling.
The Pre-alpha for Unreal Tournament 4 is almost always active. I'm there almost every night and we get some pretty big games going.
Oh I do too. I still play it. It shows how dedicated the fanbase is despite Epic's treatment.
@@welfarewalrus597 i don't think it will die anytime soon due to dedicated fanbase
you mean this UT from epic launcher? should i try it? always thought that this is an 0 player game nowdays
@@kamilovicftw6810 it's a primetime kinda game it seems, gotta get on at the right time on the right day to get some good matches
@@welfarewalrus597 Someone should make UT in Dreams
I refuse to accept this. Working on my own arena fps regardless of the gaming climate, because I want to. ✌️😉
How is it going
Right on. How's it going?
Do you need people to help you test it
@joseaca "Age of Empires II: Definitive Edition" "New" Lol
@utewbing you pointed out a big fact, modern players want easy achievement, not big ones.
Why is that?
No self hosting, No server browser, No LAN, No Offline, No Mods, No Map Editors
This would have been great, though UT and Quake Champions would have succeeded even without these things if managed and supported properly, I think. The Unreal series has never been as technically open as the Quake games, unfortunately. No source ports etc. for Unreal, UT99 etc.
@@asdfjklo234 There were CRAZY mods for UT99 and 2004, the two UT games that matter.
Yeah, UT:Chaos is probably the best example. But honestly, Quake were the source of so many new game modes, future franchises and not to mention it laid the foundation for Valve's Source engine.
Kinda ez to see why tho, it was probably the first real 3d game(there are technicalities that people use to name other games using 3d pre-Quake), and after Quake 2 were created it got completely open source. All hail to John Carmack's vision of keeping the games alive after release.
They basically set their games up for failure.
some Indie dev company could make a quakelike game wich has all the modern QoL stuff, minus the overachieveing graphics.... good graphics always ruin the competitive feel to a FPS games...
i didnt last in quake champions that long... netcode sucked in closed beta too tho... :D atleast it still felt like a quake game
I don't know. After I finished Doom Eternal I was actually searching for a Multiplayer with similarly fast gameplay.
Now I started to play Quake Champions.
Same
same here
I think Quakelive is still a better option. It's hard to master, tho.
@Evrett Sobaski doom eternal multiplayer sucks bad
I would be with you, if it was on console.
The thing is, back then, only PC enthusiasts had access to the technology required to play games like UT and Quake. The introduction and success of consoles means the demographic has changed.
Yeah it really shocks me how huge the console demographic actually is. I can't use a controller, can't do shit with one, and to think some people play everything with one is just mind blowing to me.
@@GlamStacheessnostalgialounge I would be on of those people, I play on pc and Xbox and use controller every chance I have regardless of it being "less accurate", I just found kbm uncomfortable.
Well now it seems consoles are finally getting native mouse and keyboard support so hopefully we can go back to movement based precision aiming shooters. I'm sick of the slow tactical shooters like cs and r6 siege and im also sick of hero shooters like overwatch.
@@DonVanPelican123 I would like to see something like apex but with a way smaller map (so you dont waste gameplay time running around 15 mins before action) with some buff skills and a lot of gore and serious character design and free for all game mode please
people just want to play easy,unskilled, stupid games with tons of skins they can buy.
UT devs got FREE labour and still dropped UT4? Now that is smooching up investor sweet sweet coin!
Doom Eternal needs an arena shooter multiplayer update. Seems kinda perfect.
Hash-Slinging Slasher Yes! I miss customizing my Doom Guy.
It literally trains you to be a killing machine. Then when you seem like you're all beefed up to play against others, there is no multiplayer options.
I have to think it would have been like 1/3 the development time that was required for the 2 vs 1 battle mode too.
"Nooooo, that's what Quake Champions is for! Go play that!"
- Hugo Martin
Jarod Smith “I love broken, unbalanced games.”
- People who play anything by EA
Quake Champions never should have done the hero shooter thing. Most people hated the idea of abilities in Quake and yeah it took the devs forever to balance them. They should have just removed them. Their balances, tweaks, fixes, and updates also take way too long. Also their menus are complete garbage. The complete opposite of user friendly. I gave up shortly after it hit Steam. A dev team who doesn't listen to feedback equal shit.
i agree, they never should have had character abilities. no way, not in quake, hell no.
Remember that overwatch created this champion approach and pushed it to far for other shooters to measure up to the hype, the same happened to rainbow six siege and then COD got plaged with it. The hero thing is not a bad concept on it self, but requires fine tuning like normal mobas do, like league and Dota that have extensive years of balance changes, and still cant have it completly figured out yet. Mobas are just a more controlled environment, FPS are not.
The purity was the hook , if you won it was because you were a better player , I've never had that feeling since , to me quake was digital heroin hahah
@@HarkTrack9661 and now OW2 is basiclly a a shite game , i can see it going down the drain due to cater to morons
UT99 still a solid game. nali wp3 the best mod ever. 20 years later still rocks. and the graphics never get old.
Exactly, i play it to this day
I play some botmatches from time to time.. still fun. And those bots can be tuned pretty nice (or inhuman).
@@dadrising6464 Barring perhaps UT2004, UT99 has the absolute best bots of any game, even to this day.
I still can't get over the deaths of these two titans of game series. From the first moment I heard about Overwatch and Fortnite I hated them with a passion.
I get Fortnite, considering the company that made Unreal is now pouring all of its resources into this new golden calf, but Overwatch? Ain’t Blizzard’s fault that Bethesda left Quake out to die. :/
Don’t get me wrong, those bastards at Blizzard did a LOT wrong, but people playing follow the leader with their (last true) passion project isn’t on them.
I still don't understand how anybody could think that Overwatch is a good game, I put over 400+ hours into the game with friends and the only fun I ever had with it was when I was completely stomping on the enemy team and trolling my teammates. Unfortunately making constant poop jokes (seriously) with the intention of annoying a certain teammate got me fucking banned.
Grzy Ruth >400+ hours.
Not really helping your argument there bud.
@@grzyruth9205 why would you invest 400 hours into something you didn't have fun? Read a book instesd
Oh shit...it's *LIL BROOMSTICK*
Thank you for the really good description of the problem. We only need 2 to 3 developers for UT4, the costs are manageable. These may be around $ 350k a year. There is currently no viable FPS Arena shooter that is a pity, UT4 has a lot of potential.
Maybe Epic can upload the best community maps on their Quickplay servers. So that new players see that there are also new maps. This adjustment may not take as long.
I don't know that "currently no viable FPS Arena shooter" is necessarily correct; there's this little indie game called Splitgate that's incredibly fleshed out and getting regular upgrades.
Man, I only started PC gaming a couple of years ago, and having played a wide variety of shooters from Doom to UT to TF2 to CS:GO and even a little Fortnite, I can safely say that arena shooters blow everything else out of the water, in terms of skill and community, not to mention overall enjoyment. I'd rather play Dusk then CoD or any other tactical shooter, and I love tactical shooters. I'm 18! I wasn't even alive when this stuff was popular! We need more developers like NewBlood.
Very sad. Would like to see UT4 getting completed eventually.
i am learning UE4, so i could eventually contribute to UT4's github
Duel is amazing mode, but its stressful as hell to play. Also you must be really really good mechanically to have chance to win. There are some videos there Shourd plays quake and he is DESTROYED in that game. As amazing duel in arena FPS is it will never be popular because of skill requirement.
giedmich yea Shroud has great aim but that’s not enough to be successful at quake which goes without saying that any average joe will get squashed instantly at any Quake duel. I’d hang on for a good 3 or 5 minutes to where if I screw up and get killed, it’s over when the other player controls every weapon and armor pickup and mega.
@@MercenaryOrangeTV ...I think that's what killed it. The difference is just to much to make up for a new player. Once they die 2 or 3 times in a row, game over, cause the opponent has total map control. They should have focused on team play with capture the flag.
@@mikehoncho8896 It's just too much going on for a newbie to understand. period. game may look simple but there's alot going on and its freakin' deep. Just about the entire population on epic games got scared off from diabotical so that's no suprise. took me almost 20 minutes to find a FFA game to just play.
Look, between Doom and Quake. I'll pick Doom any day, there's no discussion there for me, but even I don't support the change from QuakeCon to "DoomCon". It's obvious they're just trying to kill Quake because Champions underperformed and are using the Doom name to cannibalize it. That doesn't sit well with me at all. Let's not pretend that Doom didn't almost die after Doom 3. But look at it now. It hasn't been as popular as it is right now since the 90's! Believe in your franchises. Gather the right people for the job and bring it back to the limelight. If you did it with Doom and Wolfenstein, you can do it with Quake.
More than making Doom kill Quake, I think Bethesda's goal (or at least id Tech's goal) was to clean its name from so many failures in a row, mostly because they saw the first Doom a few years ago did pretty well.
They Could bring Back quake in its OG singleplayer First glory. Then Tack on the classic Arena MP and done. Get it right and Boom. The Franchise is Back in the fight
Quake hasnt been quake since the 1st quake. The rest of the quakes are quake in name only.
@@hell_march6652 They haven't dealt with Lovecraftian lore, which is what I would like to see return to Quake. Lovecraft is still very very popular. But they abandoned that universe.
They need to weld the Quake universe with DOOM and make an SP game, I don't know if Bethesda would be willing to kill off QC though
This makes me incredibly sad to see, especially the Unreal portion. I was always a big arena FPS fan, though I never really had a PC of my own to enjoy it during the glory days so I was super excited for the announcement and was one of the first to participate in the pre-alpha. I moved on to Overwatch patiently waiting for progress on the alpha of UT until one day they just stopped coming. The surprising thing is despite Epics complete disrespect the community still develops the game and TO THIS DAY. I'll still get on the broken alpha and have a blast, the gameplay is amazing and I could only imagine what it could have been. Overwatch with its dramatic changes to the gameplay and desire to add new mechanics with heroes every few months that can dramatically raise the skill floor make it a frusturating place to play competitively and will never fill the gap for the genre. Luckily I think there's hope with Diabotical making great progress and ready to pick up the pieces, and Gearbox's untitled Project 1v1 which I think was a great take on the ability/class shooters of today in AFPS format. With the freedom and creativity of the weapons and movement to the wide variety of modes I think this genre brings out the best in talented players and hope to see it succeed.
Bruh its SouthPaw
I don't think the genre is dead at all... the industry goes through cycles as to what's most popular.. for instance I love rts games they aren't the most popular because of the very high skill floor and gap .. it's a niche genre with a hardcore following ... I think the problem with gamers now is they see something that isn't the most popular or more niche and think that it is dying
@@southpaw5041 South Paw Its not, I still get on quake and have a ton of fun. And there's plenty of competition to be had, the skill gap is high but I can appreciate that, when I get demolished by another player I can understand exactly why I lost and learn from the way he moves and shoots. In OW these days it's cause someone pressed Q better or had a busted team comp. lol
@@southpaw5041 yo what's up, surprised to see you here lol
i was caught off guard when he just said "see ya" and ended the video all of the sudden.... seriously tho, great video, i absolutely loved it. UT4 still has active games going every single night, and tournaments with cash prizes (organized by the community). a huge group of us meet up at dreamhack to play UT4 at the BYOC. long live UT4
EDIT: "huge group" meaning around 45
yes, i can find matches in about 6 seconds, which proves there are plenty of active players
@@God-ch8lq Dont find them, look at hubs, thats where its at.
@@rogerflipse5121 ok
I still play UT3 and 2K4 to this day, and TONS of Quake III Arena (against bots, hi-res textures, mods etc.) because modern FPS are just too damn SLOW. I've been looking at some of the past twitch FPS that I overlooked back in the day like Tribes and am looking into some of the indie projects for fast arena FPS that are in development. Just give me a decent, balanced, fast paced arena FPS, let me play against bots, let the community manage their own servers for online play, and let the community develop and release assets/maps for it so that it isn't dead as soon as the developers/publisher are no longer interested in maintaining it and I'm happy. Don't tie it to some draconian launcher (looking at you Epic), implement basic DRM/anti-cheat (like maybe just put it on Steam?) and I'm good. I hate that games like Quake Champions and UT4 just withered and died because the developers/publishers decided they had to follow industry trends and couldn't complete these games (or just open source them to let the community do it, which I'm certain they would based on the fact that new content is still being created for the older iterations of these games to this day). I get that console gaming is popular and that twitch shooters and console controls don't mix, but there are a lot of hardcore mouse/keyboard warriors out there who aren't content with the likes of Fortnite, Overwatch, PUBG and the latest WWI/WWII 'realistic' shooter and just want their speed back. We're not asking for the world, just a decent base game with bots, a few basic game modes, a few maps, and the source code so that the community can do what you won't. Leave it open so that the community can host its own servers (because we know you will just shut your servers down as soon as the game isn't making enough money) and let us play our games. Is that really so much to ask?
nope, UT4 is still alive, you can find a match in 6 seconds avg
it's all due to people like me refusing to let it die
also everyone's suprisingly nice, 0 toxicity, which is something i havn't seen in any other FPS so far
@@God-ch8lq That's awesome, I'm glad to hear it :)! I knew the community for these games was still out there, and it's nice to hear that the players are treating each other well. I'll definitely have to check it out (assuming I can actually get UT up and running on my current rig). Thanks for filling me in on your experiences with the game.
"Making stuff appeal to a wider audience fundamentally ruins it"
More news at 11.
its almost like it removes the actual identity of the product in favor of bland and general inclusion.
I miss UT, I'm a mapper and I was working on a map to be published in the pre alpha.
It all comes down to money. Classic FPS like Unreal & Quake can't be used to continuously milk people in the form of "On-line services" as they're single sell items.
I liked the comparison you made to fighting games, because recent events with SFV, DoA6, and MK11 have shown that even the cash cows in fighting game communities will stop playing those games if they get too greedy or commit too many sins. Another factor is the "runoff" of players who, instead of continuing to live in the glacier of SFV, flow down to less populated games like Guilty Gear, UNIST, Melty Blood, or something else entirely. There has been a comparitive explosion in player bases for those games over the last few years ever since SFV tanked, which has been very healthy for the scene.
>most multiplayer games don't last for a year, so why do investors keep chasing huge hits?
It's easy to gamble when you're playing with someone else's money.
As always, I'm looking forward to your next video.
Meanwhile, Doom Eternal, an Arena FPS, just revived the sub-genre of Arena FPS and revolutionized the entire FPS genre
sadly no TDM/DM tho :7. Hope they add it later.
The game is fucking amazing, I just wish there was a traditional multiplayer. Imagine an arena shooter with the movement and map layouts of doom eternal, that would be a dream come true.
It didnt revive anything, the game is missing the skilled movement that is signature of any AFPS since Quake/UT. Doom Eternal feels like a console platformer with that grab and double air dash. Feels like playing Darksiders, just more pewpew and faster.
Its lacking quite some factors tho
Strong hopes for Diabotical ! (Noticed the 2-3 second bit of the trailer towards the end ;) )
Diabotical has the look of a F2P game, unfortunately.
@@quorkquork 2gd has said they have much more polishing left to do. i think it looks great already though.
@playriderepeat It's almost releasing. However it will be epic exclusive so think of that what you will.
@joseaca I've heard that the beta weekends have done very well till now so I'm not so sure about that.
@joseaca Personally, I still don't have much hope in it succeeding because of the platform it is releasing on. But I still really want it to and can't blame Yames for taking the exclusivity deal.
Good comparison to fighting comunity. Arena shooters not dead, there is still players, but there is no good developers for them.
QC instead of fixing performance making shit i don't even know about. The game can't handle 8 jumping capsules that shoot bullets. 😂😂😂.
Another problem is lack of training modes for newbies. Look at CS GO:
comunity aim maps,
death match where you dont collect anything, just choose your gun and train it AGAINS PLAYERS, not bots,
on solo map you can see grenade trajectory.
And look at those old veterans arenas, quake and unreal. All you can do is shoot bots. In death matches you die in 2 seconds and cant collect anything. They need to learn from CS GO.
Diabotical
they did introduce loadouts for Quake Live when it first came to steam and that was not recieved well by the community. CSGO isn't an arena shooter.
@@MercenaryOrangeTV i'm not about loadouts, i'm talking about training mods with infinite ammo for every gun. Unholy trinity is good, but it can be better.
AgentOrangeTV CSGO surely isn’t an arena, but still arena games should adopt some col features cs has, as community maps for training, more training modes, ecc.
Bots are a training mode, also one of the better ones.
I sure love the type of guy who hate the """DEAD""" of a game but never play it and/or love it in the first place...
I'll take an arena shooter over "realistic" COD or two-weapon limited slow movement FPS'w anyway. Even though I'm honestly not the hest at multiplayer. 😂
I still rather like Team Fortress 2 as well. Overwatch i wanted to get into but i hear less and less positive things about it every time.
Doom 2016's multiplayer was close to being great but screwed up by modernization with two-weapon limits alone. I don't get why that was never just patched out or why Doom Eternal decided Battlemode was enough.
I still hop on and play UT2004 against bots now and then.
Commenter of the future here, about to say that now we got further confirmation that the Arena FPS is being left behind for good, as we got news that Epic Games literally not only is gonna completely shutdown and obliterate Unreal Tournament 4 in January 24, 2023; but they also completely delisted all their Unreal games from all digital storefronts (these games are Unreal 1998, Unreal Tournament 1999, Unreal Tournament 2004, and Unreal II).
Man it sucks that this genre of FPSs is literally stuck in the past now, with not many even wanting to attempt it now.
The genre never died, it just took a nap
6:50 Yeah, you see over the years Epic (and the more active members of the community as well) realized that there's a fundamental issue with crowd-sourced development - it takes more time to look through shit on the forums and give people guidance, which MAY OR MAY NOT be taken (it's not like these people are employees, they just do what they want), than to just sit down and develop stuff yourself. You get all the problems of a top down management without any of its benefits.
"Listening to fans" is also more of a buzzword than anything else. There's exactly 1 thing that the community is good at: identifying problems/bugs/imbalance. Solving them, not so much. Even though the game was very early pre-alpha, it had the most polished netcode ever with great performance and 0 crashes due to all the feedback. However, when it comes to design decisions, the community can absolutely never agree on anything, because everybody wants to solve said problems in a different way. Sure, this creates plenty of ideas on the forums, but once again we're back to having to look through all that shit. Not to mention that the developers themselves at Epic will also have their own ideas for where to go next, which are once again different from anything anyone in the community came up with. Always.
If anything, with how ridiculously successful the new Doom games have been, now is possibly THE BEST time to focus on Quake and Unreal Tournament. Doom revitalized itself in such an earthshattering way as an amazing game (albeit NOT the multiplayer aspect) that you'd think developers would see that and go to the drawing board of "How can we take what DOOM did, and apply it to Unreal Tournament/Quake?" Disappointment is an understatement for all of this. Unreal Tournament was my addiction as a kid and I'm sad that it never got a chance
Im still gonna stick with quake and unreal becuase the skill cealing still higher than most game
I think you missed something else too. CS kind of killed arena shooters. The original CS dominated the multiplayer FPS scene during the early 2000's
They were pretty equal back then tbh, more people were playing area shooters around me at the time. Historical stats aren't available as far as I can tell
30 brainwashed CancerNite fans disliked this :(
I will NEVER forget what killed UT.
Fortnite.
Imagine replacing UT with that absolute trash game. Ugh.
Pissed off again. Great video bro.
DIABOTICAL
Im a UT fan but UT4 was empty, hard to run even on lowest settings and map updates where slow. I quitted because it was overwhelming to my pc hardware. Meanwhile quake champions somehow run better and was really fun to play when i could. It had one of the worst netcodes ever done in humankind history (ironsight was better wtf). 9 out of 10 games couldn't get played because of a bug with the netcode where you get stuck in the ground and every hit detection you make is considered a miss. I left for a year, then cameback and it was still there with minor changes and not even a single netcode bug fixed. Never came back ever since. This games died because of the lack of effort from the devs to fix them and improve them. At least bethesda gave tools and a fully finished product to work with. With this games they didn't even finish them!
tf2 player here , if feel like it's gonna be our turn soon.
I think alot of the problem comes from the fact that Quake3 basically perfected the formula ... Where do you go from there ?? And maybe it's due to the fact gaming has a broader audience people lookin for instant gratification not months on the grind learning and gettin your ass handed to you daily , so the arena shooter is for the hardcore masicist ... The minority ... Quakeworld 200 ping rollerball mouse ... The good old days hahaha
I wish arena shooters still would be alive like 15 years ago.. All those new FPS games are just terrible. Ive had a BLAST playing UT when i was a kid.
Thanks to epic for ruining my childhood dream..
Most new FPS are slow paced copy paste boring games with lame map design and lack of creativity. Trying to copy realism instead of going on a crazy way. Glad for DOOM Eternal, I would love to have something like that as a multiplayer focused, competitive madness!
I mean if you had a blast playing Unreal Tournament when you were a kid and then you should thank Epic for making your childhood dream lol. You enjoyed the game when they made it during your childhood and now they decided to move on to other series. It's all right at least we got to enjoy it when it was at its peak
Ádám Pajor well rip doom eternals multiplayer literally removed death match and replaced it with an unfair boring evolve ripoff
2:38 THIS IS SUCH BULLSHIT. I love playing with a gamepad in games that are designed for it, but first person shooters were never meant to be played this way. I've ranted and raved about how bad the aiming mechanic is in Resident Evil 7, and most people had no idea what I was on about.
Did you seriously just show TF2 cosmetics as an example of peak user content, instead of countless game levels and models people have created for it (and for nearly every other Valve game)?
Epic died for me with abandonment of UT without any word. They are just sellouts and they don't give a shit about their fanbase, that was with them since the first Unreal in 1998.
Still play QC about 2 hours a day. Knowing what Epic did to UT, I will avoid putting my considerable disposable income into anything Epic made if I can help it.
ut 99 was the game of all arena games. . Not even its newer games came close to the actual game play and speed. ut 99 forever 👍
I'm a quake guy myself but I loved ut2004
@@alpharedhed4446
I did like quake but UT had the edge 👍 both great games.
I started with shooters with ut2004 so for me that is the best arena shooter the impossible kills , the adrenaline kicks so awesome times those days .
What?! Why did you put overwatch instead of teamfortress 2?!
Look we get money is the factor here, but they literally ditched their original fan base that made them the massive AAA company they are today. Its the biggest slap in the face ever
Overwatch is dead when the devs fail to balance their class, and instead they force players to fit the role. This limit people from playing their favourite character, and cause long queue for offensive characters. I love overwatch, but with long queue and forced team role, it limit the freedom of playing your favourite character.
I don't understand why developers are insisting on releasing their games so early. What thought makes a developer think "Our game is completely unfinished, full of bugs, can hardly run on most systems, is unbalanced and unfun, lets release it all we have to do is slap an early access tag on it" All of the small studio game releases i've been looking forward to over the past several years have lost or never even obtained a consistent loyal player base a long time before the actual release. Diabotical is sadly looking like they are going to make the same mistake. The kickstarter released almost 3 years ago and the game is still in such an unfinished development state that it doesn't even qualify for the insanely low quality standards "early access" games require. The community is pushing them to release it and placing them between a rock and a hard place. Release it early and watch everyone quit because of the bad graphics, bugs, poor optimization, etc etc.. If they wait till its actually finished, which will probably be several more years and by then everyone will have forgotten about it.
Because beta-testing (it doesn't matter the development phase, that's the generally accepted term) it's really hard, and not cheap. You gotta hire a lot of people to do the same stuf millions of times. So why waste money on professionals when you can make players do it for free in massive ammounts and even get money from them?
Off course, the last phrase is a joke but I wouldn't be surprised if that's how those companies think now.
people have became tolerant and used to it, so why test it fully when players will do it themselves, at least that's what they think, plus they always need to make sure they have a steady paycheck for employees.
Those that left Epic in 2012 were right - The Tencent acquisition really was a bad omen for the company's future.
But that's how capitalism works isn't it?
Also fuck Bethesda; though I love it when they just outright forget to put DRM in the game like they did with Rage 2 and Doom Eternal, I live for these screw-ups
That comparison to fighting games is very insightful.
Thank you. There were other examples I thought about mentioning but I am saving it for a future video. But basically RTS and Classic RPGs have also found a resurgence recently after years of people thinking they were dead. I truly do believe that time has shown that "dead genres" like those and AFPS can come back if the right game comes out.
God bless the good old id Software, who released source code for EVERY game up to Doom 3 (at least)!!!
And don't forget about that travesty that was LawBreakers, ironically involving the seminal but apparently also hubris-plagued CliffyB from the Unreal franchise. A game that shows you the dangers of DRM, having been rendered unplayable with the master servers shut down.
lawbreakers sucked though. Thats the issue with AFPS. They all suck lately. Has nothing to do with the genre
@@Wylie288 I liked Lawbreakers, wasn't a pure blood Arena shooter but it was a lot more involved than other newer games. Shame they couldn't even let us have our own servers, that way it could still be playable.
Fucking Cliffy B... He of ALL people should have realized all the dangers that LawBreakers was stumbling into, but he just completely ignored it all. Now UT99 is more active than his game.
Doom Eternal realy warmed up crowd for fast paced action, so maybe we could get new single Quake next followed by classic mp.
hope so
Ray I think they will reboot Quake with a single player campaign
IHateStairs hope so
Am I the only one that disliked the glory kills? They kill the speedy gameplay for me.
@@AutumnWind92 I loved them, they were really satisfying and the animations were cool
Quake and Unreal Tournament are still alive online and been supported by the mod community
We need quake 5
I would actually prefer a quake 2 remake with a modern graphics engine. Same physics, same feel, same maps.
@@MrFreeGman well,until that happens,I guess quake 2 xp can give you your fix
@@mikegkikas4847 Quake 2 xp is awesome, but it's definitely not comparable to modern game engines. Also no one plays it online :/
@@MrFreeGman true
I'm a senior software dev interested in working on an arena shooter, indie or otherwise - if anyone is getting a team together.
The abandonment of UT is the primary reason that I'll never give Epic money for anything again.
at least they didnt shut down servers. lawbreakers did and tbh i miss this game as much as i miss ut4 development
@@DrPainter9896 Well, they kinda did eventually. I tried to get back into UT4 with some friends and we couldn't find a server for love or money. So yeah it is pretty much completely dead now.
"quake champions might have been the worst optimized game i have ever played" oh boy you need to try escape from tarkov :D
quake champions had a memory leak and used like 12 gb ram
Tried QC and yes it's shit when it comes to optimization. Insanely bad. The game itself is good but it just made me wish to play Quake 3 Arena. And then I play that again.
@@lilililiililili6363 How is this days? Still a mess?
@@spacewargamer4181 I don't play now but i tried it 3 months ago and it was fine i guess
@@spacewargamer4181 it's fine runs fine for me
Death? So the lack of official Devs means the Death of a genre? Since when?
No, no, no. You're all getting it wrong. This is just the beginning.
Day 567 waiting for Halo 3 to become open source
The Arena Shooters fans are ungrateful, sadly they ignored the attempt to revive the genere when Nexuiz reappeared.
They just simply love complaining that the genere is dead, and when a developer tries to please them, they will ignore those games completely
qc is ass
Nexuiz was slow and laggy, it wasn't a true fast paced shooter. The remake/commercialized one anyway. Old open-source Nexuiz was cool but a bit old now
Imagine choosing fortnite over UT. Ouch.
They've done the same with Paragon, except they announced they will abandon it.
They already did. Servers have been shut down for a year or two now.
Three years later. Epic killed Unreal and UT completely by disabling the master servers and removing most of the games of the franchise from Steam. They are still available on GOG but the question is how long will they last there...
Nowadays you hear youngsters at work bragging about how they just got 40 kills on Fortnite or CoD. I instantly feel old because its hard to take them seriously.
I think the reason why the genre died is because no one wanted to innovative the genre. The only developers to innovative was halo by bringing that arena shooter feeling to controllers but everyone else were just making quake/unreal clones. Some other developers decided to bring arena shooter game modes into their tactical shooters which I find dope. Lack of innovation is the reason really.
And when they did innovate no one bought it....cause they just went back to UT and Quake.
Strange how outdated the QC info is. The game is perfectly balanced and optimized right now.
The video was made in mid-2019...
Si then he should update the video and say it! Qc is a Great game now. New Players are not!
@@maratrona Now that is a great attitude that will ensure the longevity of the QC community. I'm sure people will flock to the game in droves.
Epic has a game that could be bigger than Fortnite but unless you're an og you have probably never played it, Unreal Championship 2 needs a remaster or create Unreal Championship 3
you forgot to mention half life,yea that game that cant get 3rd part.
it accly helped fps games with story telling.
Im still sitting here like "any day now, they will finish the new unreal tournament... Any day now."
I know right.. until that day comes quake live and quake champions will have to do...
Notification squad here
First on the battlefield I see.
Don't forget how rude it was when Epic killed Paragon in favor of focusing on Fournuts.
Paragon always was kinda dead because of poor emplimentations of core mechanics, and because of that making it almost impossible to balance.
On top of that if game like that don't blew up on start, like in first week, then it almost destined to die slowly and painfully, there are hundreds of games that been supported for years while devs have less and less money to work on it
You know what would be hillarious? That the answer comes from Halo modding. Imagine, MCC PC SDK releases, Halo Pro Mod comes out, and turns out to be the next big arena shooter hit.
I love Halo as a console shooter but it's just too slow to still be competitive with mouse aim. At the high level every battle rifle fight will be a coin flip and even at average level people will get sick of having little control over their success. Unless "Pro Mod" implies smaller hitboxes, faster run speed and more important items on the map I don't see how a Halo on PC could reach the complexity Quake, UT and Tribes fans are used to.
@@forasago Actually, that exactly what I have in mind, a pro mod that reworks the game's pace and balance exclusivelly for PC, with a highened speed.
@@IndieLambda Cool but how realistic is a PC SDK really?
@@forasago I have no idea.
Just thinking about playing an FPS with a controller, hurts my thumbs. Plebs!
Every time i hear the name "Fortnite", somethings dies in me....
Fortnite is the Coronavirus of gaming.
@@bigballzmcdrawz2921 Yes :D
This video still pains me 3 years later. I suck at AFPS, a lot. But I still have a lot of fun playing them because I feel like I'm constantly challenged and engaged, I feel like I can bounce back even if I have a 10 frags difference after 2 minutes only, because that's a thing you can actually do in AFPS. In most other FPS you just can't, in battle royale for example, if you don't get good loot on landing chances are you are gonna get rolled in the first fight. In heroes based shooters, of the other team has stronger heroes, you are going to get rolled. I feel like a huge reason why AFPS are fizzling out is also because they are effectively harder to play than any other shooter, they require a LOT of multitasking compared to something like CoD or Valorant.
I think Quake Champions is doing slightly better now compared to when the video was made, but it's still a far cry from Q3 or QL, UT is basically dead since Epic decided to take off their store all the titles and I doubt we will actually see a new one anytime soon. Diabotical I still have to try, but from what I see it's a very solid game.
In the esports sphere in particular, I think AFPS are also the most fair an balanced kind of shooters. They are also VERY easy to understand as a viewer (it's just a 1v1 with a scoreboard on top) compared to stuff like Valorant or Overwatch. Even Quake Champions despite having abilities is still more balanced and fair than stuff like Apex, for the simple reason that both players have the same things to work on. And I really think AFPS came far too early as an esports to get the recognition they deserve.
Both studios (Epic Games and ID) fumbled the ball horribly with their sequels back in the 2000's and that was that. The Tribes studio also screwed up with Tribes 3. It would be interesting to see where Unreal Tournament and Quake might be today if they had received proper sequels. Unreal Tournament might still be a leading FPS today if Epic Games had produced proper sequels to UT99. It's hard to say that Epic really put much effort or investment into UT4.
I always say it and I will keep on saying it. Play Xonotic. For gods sake just play Xonotic
Wanted to write it too. I like xonotic more than quake. It have more interesting weapons.
They didn't 'fall' as much as they just evolved and were part of the machinations that got us to the gaming utopia we experience today! I'm a Gen X'er so I know what truly bad video games look like
Diabotical will save the day.
Maybe what im going to say is not an issue for too many people but what kills Quake champions for me is the ausence of dark badass demon esthetic. Take a look to Quake II and III and compare to Champions. If the new comunity rather play Overwatch maybe they just dont deserve to enjoy Quake.
I think you're kind of wrong when you blame the added Champion System and issues with graphical and gameplay performances. I agree that graphical and gameplay issues are a huge reason why people don't like to play that certain game, but it never became less popular because of that. Arena FPS was peeking in 1990's-2000. And as we see with games that have been around for 10-15 years, they fall in player base. Not because of the game doesn't perform 100% (graphical and gameplay), but because the interest isn't there anymore. And to keep the interest you got to advertise it if you wanna keep it competiting with other popular games. People born in 1998-2000 doesn't have a clue what Quake and Arena FPS' are because they never heard of it. I'm a lucky guy cause i got 2 brothers who made me play Warcraft, Quake, DotA etc. And i even believe that the Arena FPS genre could make a comback if they started to advertise and making the genre into something more like a 5v5 and a teamgame. Today games aren't even working properly either graphical or gameplay performance wise. You look at League of Legends and you see that the whole base of how it's built up is completely fucking stupid and in many of people's opinion shouldn't be competitive due to the lack of strategic gameplay and game mechanics