Anyone else notice the Centauri cruiser focused it's fire on the narn engines at the back of the ship while the narn were just shooting different spots.
It's amazing the Narns won that fight. That was the sloppiest close range fire I've seen in any sci-fi battle, while the Centauri seemed to be more accurate.
@@dmacbass From the canon(such as it is) much of Narn technology is reversed engineered Centauri (older)tech. So...given that they got the drop on the Centauri vessel....I can sorta kinda see how the writers gave the entirely pyrrich victory to the Narn vessel.
@@dmacbass aside from beam weapons which tend to be very high powered lasers or partical beams the pulse weapons on any ship is very inaccurate as those have to be fired either at the prediected location of a ship or at the largest area of a ship so the centauri ship just turning would have made many of the pulse weapons to miss but also firing at certain areas even to miss would make the enermy ship move away from that spot which is good if like most B5 series vessels the more powerful beam weapons are fixed mounts with no ability to alter direction, we do know that the narn forward beam weapons are very deadly but only forward facing we also know the narns put a lot of emphasis on the explosive power of their pulse weapons while centauri have their weapons calibrated to slice thru armour and hull causing more precise weapons this may stem from the cantauri liking finnesse and swords so their battle tactics tend to be based around crippling a vessel and then killing or capturing it while the narn millitry ideology is to hit the ememy with as much power as possible to cause wide spread damage and decompressions to force an enemy to withdraw or be destroyed.
Perfect allegory, they destroyed each other, as Kosh predicted, they're a dying race, we should let them pass. And when asked if he meant the Narn or the Centauri, he simply said yes.
It was a Pyrrhic victory for the Narn. The expression goes back to King Pyrrhus I of Epirus. After his victory over the Romans in the Battle of Asculum in 279 BC, he is said to have been. Have said to a well-wisher: "Another victory like this over the Romans - then we are completely lost!" The victory of the Narn in this battle is a success bought too dearly. The Narn cruiser was almost as badly damaged in this battle as the Centaurie cruiser but, in contrast to the Centaurie, had almost working engines. Unfortunately, the Narn's jump engines were overloaded when opening a hyperspace jump point and a huge explosion took place. The Narn use copied Centaurian technology they do not fully understand. Their entire fleet is built on legacies left by the Cenaturie on the Narn home world.
they were refusing to answer transmissions from bab 5. this narn cruiser may have been trying to act as though they were renegades and the narn gov't wasn't responsible for sending the ship to destroy the centauri cruiser. they may choose to engage their engines to get away from being caught by earthforce or were choosing suicide to help cover their gov'ts orders
The Bab5 jump gate was marginally under the station's control (passwords, etc.), plus the use of the neutral jump gate for acts of war would violate (even more) articles of the Babylon 5 Treaty.
I actually think there's a really good question because you're right that jump gate could have been used to escape into neutral territory where they would have made repairs, Babylon 5 as a neutral station would have had to allow them to.
I don't think so, Primus is an excellent ship, but hundreds of years old. In this video, the Narn attack by surprise and the Primus is unable to react properly.
It is a common factor with Centauri ships as they're very much glass cannons. This is due to the fact that Centauri ship armour is thinner than on most other races ships because in combat Centauri doctrine emphasises speed and agility. Even the most modern Centauri ships like a Vorchan can be easily torn apart by enemy fire.
Why did the Narn cruiser try to form a jump point even though their jump engines were damaged? They should've stayed to fix their jump engines and even get aid from Babylon 5. I'll admit that part of me cheered on the Narn ship during its fight with the Centauri ship and I'm glad the Narn ship won but it's a bit sad that they were destroyed right after.
I also think it's illogical that the Narn wanted to jump so fast. However, they were losing the war and perhaps they thought it was less dangerous to jump than to wait for another battlecruiser to come and hunt them down (the best of the worst options). I am also sympathetic to the Narn, but I must admit that I don't like any ship as much as the Primus Battlecruiser. It seems good to me that the scene ends with the destruction of the two ships, as a sign of the "equality" between the two sides. Both factions have beautiful ship designs, the G'quan is also wonderful. Well ... everything about B5 is great :)
@@oscarb2407 I imagine both races bickering over which of them has better looking ship designs since they bicker over everything else. This scene I think was meant to be symbolic of how both races will destroy each other if they keep fighting one another like Kosh told G'Kar in Season 3.
@Mike D. I don't think Babylon 5 actually thought was going on. But in any official release the Narn Regime made would probably cite protecting neutral transit as the reason or some other high minded reason as why they sent the cruiser. Sheridan knew he hail probably wouldn't work but what else could he try. It also establishes clearly that he and Earth wanted no part of that crap show that ensued.
they probably were expecting retaliation from the Centauri or even the Earth Alliance ..and her captain wasnt much toughtfull anyway.. deciding to jump in , ignore B5 instructions and attack right away a superior ship..they probably tought better get out of here now and answer questions later.. If you recall the episode after this even G'Kar seemed troubled at the incident outcome ..like "whoever was right both sides screwed up here"
The Bab5 jump gate was marginally under the station's control (passwords, etc.), so no guarantee they could even activate a jump out. Plus using the neutral jump gate for acts of war would violate (even more) articles of the Babylon 5 Treaty.
As shown in the series. Initially after the Declaration of War, the Narns were able to penetrate deep into Centauri territory. However, after that time, the Centauri got their huge mothballed fleet out of storage, and then easily turned back the Narn forces. Narn lost everything it gained in the early days of the war, then as the war dragged on the Centauri would grind the Narn down along the way. When G'Kar got word of a homeworld strike being imminent, he tried to warn G'Sten to turn back the strategic strike. "You know the Centauri. Attack, neutralize, secure, and then move on." But they bypassed the most recent nearby outposts, indicating they were gathering for the big strike. But G'Sten wouldn't listen and carried on to Gorash 7 [I think that's right], and met his fate there at the hands of the Shadows. Narn fell soon afterwards.
I imagine it's some form of electronic warfare interfering with targeting. The Minbari were the best at it of the younger races but the other races used it too except for the humans. They decided to literally just 'tank' the hits rather than spoof targeting.
@witchdoctor1394 makes our ships difficult as hell to murder though. When we get pur Heavy Plasma and Particle beam Cannons in spitting range you're going to feel it long before the hull is melted away.
If I remember correctly the Primus' downfall is they aren't very armoured compared to the Narn G'Quan class ships. More fire-power but a bit of a glass jaw. Also the Narn attack was a surprise. I think I read somewhere that the Primus would usually have a overall edge in a one on one fight but Narn use their energy mine weapons to soften targets if the attack starts at a greater range.
@@pitmatix1457 Yeah, I also read about armour problem. Unlike most other species they decided to focus on medium ships like Vorchan so this behemoth is like a flying history
Primus is superior to just about anything except a Minbari warcruiser...I think even the Earth Alliance probably would've needed at least 2 if not 3 Omegas to destroy a Primus....the Centauri had pretty tough ships
I loved this show but god, the sets were so chinsy. I get that they had a limit budget but wow. It's about 1 step above a stage production. The command deck is about the size of small office. The actors must have had a hard time taking it all seriously.
So the Narn invade the Gaim and fail miserably (Considering that the Gaim homeworld's atmosphere is made mostly of Methane - just light a cigarette outside and you win a planet). They get invaded by the Centauri and fail to defend themselves. After this battle I see why: The Narn can't even run system diagnostics before jumping (which in theory should be standard protocol after recieving fire). It seems that the Narn are pretty dense when it comes to alien races. Further indication of this is the scene where G'kar is trying to teach his pupils the concept of confirmation bias ("What is God and what is the truth"). And the scene when the revolutionaries are tearing down the centaury throne room and then want to , unrealistically , continue the war and invade the Centauri - not only that , they claim that one-eyed G'kar "hadn't sacrificed anything". Seems like the Drazi have a competitor for the dumb-dumb of the galaxy award. I like G'kar, but the Narn are just inept.
Methane doesn't ignite on its own, and expecting an atmosphere safe for methane breathers to breathe to combust with a lit match is like expecting an atmosphere suitable for oxygen breathers to do the same thing. We breathe oxygen, but our atmosphere is mostly made of nitrogen and other gases.
@@The_Gallowglass yep, in fact a methane atmosphere is much less likely to burn than an oxygen atmosphere, since burning is a oxidation reaction, which oxygen happens to be really good at.
![Space Battle [Babylon 5: An Ancient Ally]](/img/n.gif)
Anyone else notice the Centauri cruiser focused it's fire on the narn engines at the back of the ship while the narn were just shooting different spots.
Very nice detail.
It's amazing the Narns won that fight. That was the sloppiest close range fire I've seen in any sci-fi battle, while the Centauri seemed to be more accurate.
@@dmacbass From the canon(such as it is) much of Narn technology is reversed engineered Centauri (older)tech. So...given that they got the drop on the Centauri vessel....I can sorta kinda see how the writers gave the entirely pyrrich victory to the Narn vessel.
@@dmacbass aside from beam weapons which tend to be very high powered lasers or partical beams the pulse weapons on any ship is very inaccurate as those have to be fired either at the prediected location of a ship or at the largest area of a ship so the centauri ship just turning would have made many of the pulse weapons to miss but also firing at certain areas even to miss would make the enermy ship move away from that spot which is good if like most B5 series vessels the more powerful beam weapons are fixed mounts with no ability to alter direction, we do know that the narn forward beam weapons are very deadly but only forward facing we also know the narns put a lot of emphasis on the explosive power of their pulse weapons while centauri have their weapons calibrated to slice thru armour and hull causing more precise weapons this may stem from the cantauri liking finnesse and swords so their battle tactics tend to be based around crippling a vessel and then killing or capturing it while the narn millitry ideology is to hit the ememy with as much power as possible to cause wide spread damage and decompressions to force an enemy to withdraw or be destroyed.
@@naturelass Im curious if both species employ targeting jammers and cyberwarfare.
Perfect allegory, they destroyed each other, as Kosh predicted, they're a dying race, we should let them pass. And when asked if he meant the Narn or the Centauri, he simply said yes.
2:25: When Oscar B finally realized the mouse marker had been on the screen all along... :P
man i didnt even see it untill you pointed it out lol
It was a Pyrrhic victory for the Narn. The expression goes back to King Pyrrhus I of Epirus. After his victory over the Romans in the Battle of Asculum in 279 BC, he is said to have been. Have said to a well-wisher: "Another victory like this over the Romans - then we are completely lost!" The victory of the Narn in this battle is a success bought too dearly. The Narn cruiser was almost as badly damaged in this battle as the Centaurie cruiser but, in contrast to the Centaurie, had almost working engines. Unfortunately, the Narn's jump engines were overloaded when opening a hyperspace jump point and a huge explosion took place. The Narn use copied Centaurian technology they do not fully understand. Their entire fleet is built on legacies left by the Cenaturie on the Narn home world.
It's not really a pyrrhic victory when you lose.
Centarui when narn hit it:excuse me
narn:idc
win - win situation ... presented by: if you go for revenge, better dig 2 graves.
Why on Narn didn't they just use the jumpgate? Not like it was switched off, and Earth allows free transit because of it being neutral space.
they were refusing to answer transmissions from bab 5. this narn cruiser may have been trying to act as though they were renegades and the narn gov't wasn't responsible for sending the ship to destroy the centauri cruiser. they may choose to engage their engines to get away from being caught by earthforce or were choosing suicide to help cover their gov'ts orders
Because the Narn are inept and somewhat dense. Maybe not Drazi dense, but close.
@@DeltaPi314 Militarily, the Narn do seem inept at conventional warfare. Even G'Kar admitted this before the Narn declared war.
The Bab5 jump gate was marginally under the station's control (passwords, etc.), plus the use of the neutral jump gate for acts of war would violate (even more) articles of the Babylon 5 Treaty.
I actually think there's a really good question because you're right that jump gate could have been used to escape into neutral territory where they would have made repairs, Babylon 5 as a neutral station would have had to allow them to.
I like the Primus class, too bad they seem to lose a lot
I don't think so, Primus is an excellent ship, but hundreds of years old. In this video, the Narn attack by surprise and the Primus is unable to react properly.
It is a common factor with Centauri ships as they're very much glass cannons. This is due to the fact that Centauri ship armour is thinner than on most other races ships because in combat Centauri doctrine emphasises speed and agility. Even the most modern Centauri ships like a Vorchan can be easily torn apart by enemy fire.
Why did the Narn cruiser try to form a jump point even though their jump engines were damaged? They should've stayed to fix their jump engines and even get aid from Babylon 5.
I'll admit that part of me cheered on the Narn ship during its fight with the Centauri ship and I'm glad the Narn ship won but it's a bit sad that they were destroyed right after.
I also think it's illogical that the Narn wanted to jump so fast. However, they were losing the war and perhaps they thought it was less dangerous to jump than to wait for another battlecruiser to come and hunt them down (the best of the worst options).
I am also sympathetic to the Narn, but I must admit that I don't like any ship as much as the Primus Battlecruiser. It seems good to me that the scene ends with the destruction of the two ships, as a sign of the "equality" between the two sides.
Both factions have beautiful ship designs, the G'quan is also wonderful. Well ... everything about B5 is great :)
@@oscarb2407 I imagine both races bickering over which of them has better looking ship designs since they bicker over everything else.
This scene I think was meant to be symbolic of how both races will destroy each other if they keep fighting one another like Kosh told G'Kar in Season 3.
@Mike D. I don't think Babylon 5 actually thought was going on. But in any official release the Narn Regime made would probably cite protecting neutral transit as the reason or some other high minded reason as why they sent the cruiser. Sheridan knew he hail probably wouldn't work but what else could he try. It also establishes clearly that he and Earth wanted no part of that crap show that ensued.
they probably were expecting retaliation from the Centauri or even the Earth Alliance ..and her captain wasnt much toughtfull anyway.. deciding to jump in , ignore B5 instructions and attack right away a superior ship..they probably tought better get out of here now and answer questions later..
If you recall the episode after this even G'Kar seemed troubled at the incident outcome ..like "whoever was right both sides screwed up here"
The Bab5 jump gate was marginally under the station's control (passwords, etc.), so no guarantee they could even activate a jump out. Plus using the neutral jump gate for acts of war would violate (even more) articles of the Babylon 5 Treaty.
Nice mouse pointer.
The applause scared it off.
The real star of the episode :-)
They got to bring back this show
They are working on it with JMS in control too. We just need to see if the can keep the Hollyweird Woke agenda out of it.
Would be interesting what happened to the debris fields.
Babylon 5 has maintenance bots and perhaps some larger craft to relocate debris. Guess sooner or later they would clean it up
Well now that 3.18 is going live, we can salvage it all with the Vukture.
The only Narn victory in the entire war
One of the only times the Shadows weren't supporting the Centauri...
As shown in the series.
Initially after the Declaration of War, the Narns were able to penetrate deep into Centauri territory. However, after that time, the Centauri got their huge mothballed fleet out of storage, and then easily turned back the Narn forces. Narn lost everything it gained in the early days of the war, then as the war dragged on the Centauri would grind the Narn down along the way.
When G'Kar got word of a homeworld strike being imminent, he tried to warn G'Sten to turn back the strategic strike. "You know the Centauri. Attack, neutralize, secure, and then move on." But they bypassed the most recent nearby outposts, indicating they were gathering for the big strike.
But G'Sten wouldn't listen and carried on to Gorash 7 [I think that's right], and met his fate there at the hands of the Shadows. Narn fell soon afterwards.
How on Epsilon III could they miss so many times from that range? Like 1:50 to 1:52 all those pulsed plasma shots?
Battle would have been over much faster if they didn't keep missing, they did the same in the opening volley.
I imagine it's some form of electronic warfare interfering with targeting. The Minbari were the best at it of the younger races but the other races used it too except for the humans. They decided to literally just 'tank' the hits rather than spoof targeting.
@witchdoctor1394 makes our ships difficult as hell to murder though. When we get pur Heavy Plasma and Particle beam Cannons in spitting range you're going to feel it long before the hull is melted away.
Always expected more from Primus class. I know those are old ships still could do a bit more
If I remember correctly the Primus' downfall is they aren't very armoured compared to the Narn G'Quan class ships. More fire-power but a bit of a glass jaw. Also the Narn attack was a surprise. I think I read somewhere that the Primus would usually have a overall edge in a one on one fight but Narn use their energy mine weapons to soften targets if the attack starts at a greater range.
@@pitmatix1457 Yeah, I also read about armour problem. Unlike most other species they decided to focus on medium ships like Vorchan so this behemoth is like a flying history
@@pitmatix1457 yes was very satisfying to watch a Warlock one-shot a Primus in Galen's vision to an older ISA President Sheridan
2:28 i don't think so there hit bad jump engines are mail funganing
um why does the i know there jump engines were damaged but why does the jump point look like there a hole in it
Well, they are literal holes in space that ships use to enter or exit hyperspace.
What's the name of that episode of Babylon 5?
1:20 jump point forms
put this in fast speed aka motion its funny
Narn's were always fools.
why did the Centauri tried to attack the narn by him self he could of send more ships
Why did you assume any were close enough?
Babylon 5 needed more one 1vs1 fights like this. The Primus is superior to the G'Quan. The element of surprise played a big role here.
Primus is superior to just about anything except a Minbari warcruiser...I think even the Earth Alliance probably would've needed at least 2 if not 3 Omegas to destroy a Primus....the Centauri had pretty tough ships
I loved this show but god, the sets were so chinsy. I get that they had a limit budget but wow. It's about 1 step above a stage production. The command deck is about the size of small office. The actors must have had a hard time taking it all seriously.
So the Narn invade the Gaim and fail miserably (Considering that the Gaim homeworld's atmosphere is made mostly of Methane - just light a cigarette outside and you win a planet). They get invaded by the Centauri and fail to defend themselves.
After this battle I see why: The Narn can't even run system diagnostics before jumping (which in theory should be standard protocol after recieving fire).
It seems that the Narn are pretty dense when it comes to alien races. Further indication of this is the scene where G'kar is trying to teach his pupils the concept of confirmation bias ("What is God and what is the truth"). And the scene when the revolutionaries are tearing down the centaury throne room and then want to , unrealistically , continue the war and invade the Centauri - not only that , they claim that one-eyed G'kar "hadn't sacrificed anything".
Seems like the Drazi have a competitor for the dumb-dumb of the galaxy award. I like G'kar, but the Narn are just inept.
I think they wanted to get out of there because they were afraid that the Station would open fire and they were in no position to fight the station.
Not entirely true. It is only stated that methane makes up the atmosphere of the Gaim homeworld, but oxygen is required for combustion.
Methane doesn't ignite on its own, and expecting an atmosphere safe for methane breathers to breathe to combust with a lit match is like expecting an atmosphere suitable for oxygen breathers to do the same thing. We breathe oxygen, but our atmosphere is mostly made of nitrogen and other gases.
@@Swindle1984 Precisely.
@@The_Gallowglass yep, in fact a methane atmosphere is much less likely to burn than an oxygen atmosphere, since burning is a oxidation reaction, which oxygen happens to be really good at.
Cool sequence only ruined by the MOUSE POINTER roaming over the screen at various points. Seriously Dude, quality control? 🤦🏻♂
and I think the narn thought the jumpgate was going to explode