Copper versus lead versus lead free pellets in .22
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- Опубліковано 19 тра 2021
- Lead. Friend or Fo? Can copper pellets ever substitute lead pellets, or do we need to look at lead free pellets. I had the chance to test all three, Part I will be all about the 30m results, I look at optimal speed and the different groupings and observations. In Part II I will be stretching the legs out to 60m.
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The ban seems a bit silly. We mine lead up out of the ground, it shouldn't hurt to give a little back.
Love the way you think...
@@AimSmall ....maybe think is a strong word. Lead has a terrible impact on the environment and we have know this for a long time, the amount of lead in our woodlands is horiffic, and as hunters it is in our interests to protect and preserve our wilderness areas , most sustainable and responsible hunters that I know are actually very happy going copper or lead free
@@thelostbushmanlg1765 So what is the impact of copper and lead free on the environment? Doesn't matter what you use, anything man made will have an impact on the environment. I am a big nature lover, going to the Kruger Park in 3 weeks from now... but somewhere we need to draw a line. Responsible hunting and preservation goes hand in hand. There is no perfect solution.
Anyone who loves there expensive gun will not want to put copper through their barrel, copper is harder and will scrub away the rifling just like a 4.5mm steal bb in a .177 rifle, this is extremely evident in choked barrels, but if the choice is to hang up my rifle or grab a few spare barrels then hey I best get friendly with my local gun smith, because I love shooting. This change will happen no matter the amount of protesting, we just need to hope pellet manufactures can come up with a solution
Just stock up with enough to last
Great video👍 the reason you getting low speed with the copper coated pellets it's because they are only made in 5,50mm and cannot expand the skirt due to the copper hardening,therefore some air is going get through to the barrel,and loose FPS. With the lead you get 5,51 5,52 5,53 and the soft lead skirt will expand with the air blast and totally seal for max air blast to the lead pellet,unlike the 5,50 on copper hard skirts pellets will let some air escape through,and therefore you loose FPS 💪👊
Or it's heavier 😂
how about some bees wax around the neck? just an idea
We used to put lead in petrol to slow the burn rate, prevent pre-ignition. As a by-product the lead helped to lubricate the valve seats. It's close to self lubricating like brass and bronze alloys
Thank you for bracketing the speeds as you always do. Finding your videos as someone brand new to air gunning, this saved me a lot of frustration in understanding precision. I might have been chasing my scope around for days otherwise. It's very interesting to see how each pellet has its sweet spot and how sometimes it's just tens of feet per second that make the difference.
Welcome to airgunning, and sorry, once the bug has got hold of you it never lets go. Enjoy.
Excellent comparison video!!! We US folks get spoiled by our firearms so a good air rifle video is exceptionally relevant. Thank you for taking the time on this.
Lead is a self lubricating metal. Copper and the lead free are not. There is a reason that lead has been used as the main metal for bullets and pellets since gun was invented.
Very interesting Gert. Thanks for posting.
great vid as usual, love your style and humour. I am in the UK and may be able to get a FAC soon. Your vid shows how important being able to adjust your power is.
Between FX and Daystate there are a lot of options. Being able to fine tune is very handy with slugs as they are very sensitive. Thanks for watching.
I absolutely agree - being able to easily adjust power levels is a huge advantage. Otherwise, you may dismiss a pellet that your gun “doesn’t like” when actually it is just the speed you are shooting it that it doesn’t like.
Just come across your channel and I must say it my new go to channel,
So much useful information.
Thank you sir, I try and be a straight shooter and talker, I am no Pro, just showing what I experience on a daily basis. I don't claim to be an expert and still make a lot of mistakes, but that is how I learn and grow. Thanks for subscribing.
@@AimSmall it's very very good.
This is the first time I have seen pellets shot at different speeds,
My rule of thumb was to find a pellet your gun likes,
It has now changed to find the speed and velocity your pellet likes.
I used to love the hunter extreme up to 50 yards but a power increase made the 50 yard spread unacceptable.
My new mission is to find the speed my pellet likes.
I use a cricket MK2 at 30ft lb so I'll be messing with the speed now.
Awesome thank you.
Hello sir i really like all your experiments on ballistics with air guns .I also want to tell u with really kind and good intensions that if you shake and rattle the tins with the pellets like the way u do it in the video u damage the pellets for sure and u effect the pellets accuracy . Keep going with the experimentations they express a lot of us from the airgun shooters family
Ur an awsum guy test pellets really good & love ur sense of humor 🤙
Great vid ,,,,,I'm in the UK and this lead thing drives me mad,,,,, , new sub.💥💥
Great testing as usual. You definitely have the best pellet tests on UA-cam! I had a slightly different experience using the same brand & model copper coated pellet in my .177 Umarex Gauntlet. My chronograph did not show the copper speed slowdown nearly as much as you experienced. So perhaps it is also due to the way FX Smooth Twist barrels interact with the copper?
I think it has to do with the more power the bigger the difference, I will test them in .177 as well in sub 12ft'pd soon
The pellet diameter may be slightly different, the friction between the steel & copper might naturally be greater, also how well the skirt forms a seal in the bore may be affected by the harder coated pellets, if more air escapes past the pellet the efficiency of energy transfer will be reduced. Also (stating the obvious) the weight of the pellet affects the velocity, a heavier pellet will have reduced velocity but will also typically have greater energy compared to a lighter pellet shot from the same PCP.
Great presentation bro!
Thank you for speaking the truth. Lead is not nearly as evil as it's made to be.
I am new viewer and really appreciate your knowledge and sense of humor. Thank you Sir!
thank u. i did not buy coppers by now. an d i think i wont(after watching). was expecting way more, but u were proofing me wrong.thanks 4 the content
The copper plating ( depending how thick the coating ) will reduce leading but may ad copper fouling to the mix. The deeper the rifleing , the greater resistance. However I have found that using a mop lightly coated with Mobile 1 synthetic oil down the barrel after a day of shooting will help with the fouling issue. This oil penatrates the surface of the steel and helps lubrication. Have had no ignition problem ( dieseling ,sp ).
Very good discussion on pellets. I only shoot at paper and silhouette targets at 30-45 feet.
Tin may be the way to go for my shooting style and training methods.
The draw back is tha the tin is very expensive.
Very interesting: I have tried the H&N Copper pellets in various break barrel and CO2 rifles and they all hate them... now I know why.
I 3d print cf pellets for indoors, the lead free plumbing solder is also easy to cast.
To add to this discussion. I have an FX Maverick, 700mm Superior barrel .22, and the copper pellets go slower as well, but only 12-15 fps slower
Great job!
Hello. I use my copper´s only in my sub 12 fpe springers ! Both .177 and .22 cal and they work brilliant ! In my FX Bobcat mk II , you know this barrel will not like those! Not even at slower speed . And they are expensive here in Norway.
Barracuda green alloy pellets in 25cal 21gr take out squirrels every time in the low 800s
Watching your video, enjoy the discussion. For me personally, I prefer not to shoot lead, not because I'm particularly concerned about my own health but having created videos for a number of tactical rifle shooting competitions etc, many of the beautiful range locations in effect become toxic dumps because of the lead contamination. So for me its just my small contribution to not spread lead around the environment even if individually its on a very very very small scale. Plus I have a young child that I would like to teach to shoot without exposing them to any lead...or shoot in the small backyard not wanting it to become a toxic dump.
Reference lead pellets, I was born in 1956, I had my first air rifle when I was 11, and the practice at the time was to grab about 5 or 6 pellets, pop them in your mouth for convenience while shooting, I still use this technique when out pest controlling and I have never suffered any ill affects
Now that brings back memories indeed, to this day I still do it when I shoot HFt or FT league and even nationals. Had a few people give me stern warnings. lol.
cant beat the super field RWS pellets👌👌super fantastic vermin sniper pellets & very accurate indeed👌👌👌👌def my favorite pellets for sure👌👌👌👌
Nice testing.....✌️
Lead shot is very effective. When steel shot mandatory wounded and lost ducks showed up all over the marshes. Crickets from all press. Sad! Lead free are weak on target. Sporadic inaccurate are the general scuttlebutt.
I could not agree anymore....👍
I shoot the crossman copper plated 10.6 gr. sometimes. The are excellent. 🎯
When you go to non lead alternatives then you need to be so much more careful with ricochets. It would not surprise me if they came back at you off a metal backstop.
What I have seen/heard so far the lead ban(s) that are being proposed are for shotguns and bullets for rim and centre fires. There has been a ban on lead shot being used on waterfowl in/over water for sometime now. The bans proposed do not, I believe, include pellet guns.
It is interesting that Denmark(?) banned lead and have now gone back to lead. So we wait and see what happens.
Indeed, lead is less harmful than most other alternatives, it is cheaper and can easily be recycled.
Tin pellets and slugs do bounce back of plywood, been hit by the very first I fired! they barely deform too.
If lead was so bad we all would be dead or mentaly disabled already after centuries of shooting it at each other.
Lead shot in game can be risky, but it should not be a reason for blanket ban including airgun rat bashing!!
Wow! I would have never thought that copper would actually run SLOWER than lead!
Friction.
Try cutting a sheet of copper with sheers, then lead - you will see the copper is much tougher and seems to have a much higher resistance on the metal contacts.
also when you shoot them they put off a glint in the Sun as they travel to the target almost like a bloody tracer round .
Have you looked at powder coating? The plastic provides a soft layer for the rifling, and acts as a lube. It does increase the size, so they really need to be run through a sizer before shooting. Mostly this is being used on slugs, especially for cast slugs.
Interesting concept, I need to investigate this a bit more. Thanks for sharing.
@@AimSmall going to be harder on the smaller size pellets. If it does nothing more, it will keep the lead off your fingers. There is a pretty long thread at the gateway to airguns forum.
Sounds like a huge pain in the ass to me.
@@joshuagibson2520 Certainly a lot more work than buying a tin of pellets. But most of us doing this are also casting our own ammo, which is another huge pile of work. These days even buying 177 here in the USA can be difficult, so casting fills a void. To answer how much of a PITA casting can be, I made 4 pounds of .357 ammo last night from some new molds, and ended up dumping all of it back in the pot to melt down later today. Couldn't get it to fill in around the hollow point pins, going to clean the molds and add some tin to see if it will fill out better. These are the first hollow points I've tried to make, all my solid stuff comes out decent. And then I'll size and powder coat. And it will still be cheaper after about 200-300 rounds than buying Benjamin Nosler 357 at $1usd per shot! If I can tune my Kral up a little, I'll get some .25 molds for it.
...and of course you cleaned the barrel after moving from copper to lead?
I have a QB79 repeater and it will put the Baracuda Power pellets through a squirrel at 20 yards.
Thank you !!
Very informative, thanks... I'm mainly interested in long range shooting. What would be your choice for the best .22 pellet used in a magnum springer, for best long range performance? Not just these, but any pellet. I was going to use those greens since they're the lightest I could find, but I didn't realize the speed is lower.
I would stick to JSB or AA, but you will need to weigh them to make sure you have consistency. The Baracuda 18's and lighter also shows a lot of promise.
@@AimSmall OK, thanks.
If u have a big calibres rifle with low power for the calibre low weight of lead free pellets may help a lot
Like you, I was concerned that if the alternative pellet material was harder than lead, would there be excessive wear in the barrel? I'm not sure what effect the ban on lead in ammunition in the UK will have, I've already heard that shotgun cartridges will no longer be sold with lead shot, the most likely replacement seems to be steel. I haven't heard whether air gun pellets made from lead are to be banned from the same date but it would be an odd exclusion if it carried on as it now.
That is worrying indeed. Lead is cheap and soft.
As well as recycled very easily.
@@joshuagibson2520 All metals are easy to recycle... Collecting them, not so much.
Best test and useful. Whats your reg pressure?
Reg at 80bar for this example, I keep it low for pellets.
I love 10.6gn copper .177 .
I push rim fire 22cal. ram set blanks into my target 20yd away and shoot at those for exploding targets . Those coppers are hole in hole for myself, love em 200 for $9 US
Would love to see nsa 17.5 slugs
Pienso que pará tiro deportivo en clubes, polígonos y torneos y esas cosas se podría seguir usando plomo y tener controles para reciclarlo,en campos abiertos habrá que buscar otras alternativas y poner grandes multas a quienes usen plomo si está prohibido.
The guys I know who have tried non lead pellets said they didn't work well.
Then gamo pba raptors work good for me
Hi! Very interesting comparation👍 Have you done penetration test of copper pellets vs lead pellets of aprox same weight&power shoot in pine board targets at 800-900 ft/s?
No obvious difference in penetration.
@@AimSmall Very interesting. At such velocity lead pellets usually deform hitting wood, while copper pellets don't!
@@imeprezime1285 remember that it is copper coated and not pure copper.
@@AimSmall Never seen them. I thought their tip was made of thicker copper layer then reir
@@imeprezime1285 Nope, fine copper coating, they create more frigtion in the barrel and comes out the barrel slower.
Thinking of having a few non lead on hand when I dispatch a nuisance squirrel so I can leave it in the field and not lead poison anything that eats it. .177 cal DANA. Last year I live trapped and relocated over 30 squirrels. Driving each one across town to the park is getting old. Due to about 6 pecan trees in the yard anytime I look out the window there are about 5 squirrels in view.
All the best with that, my experience with the lead free is that you can't make a humane shot beyond 25m
@@AimSmall I should have mentioned. Catching them in 3 live cages, then "dispensing" with them at close range. I've gotten 4 over the last few days.
Can you get them copper pellets in the store in the United
I had Grossman copper pellets and they got stuck in my barrel
What is a great pellet 177 diameter that has either copper or brass tipped inside with tin outside instead of lead. How about the green alternative with copper point inside ??? Thanks
The copper coated pellets have more friction on the barrel and exits slower, the tin pellets are too light, thus finding the right combination for lead free is still work in progress.
@@AimSmall I am learning something new today. Thanks for the education. Peace vf
The UK is banning lead pellets I wouldnt be able to do airgunning anymore lead free pellets are so expensive I can't afford it
Well, that's the whole point, isn't it?
@@taildown no they want to make it environmentally friendly not make it so no one can afford to do it
@@callumbmx9763 exactly ....the "elites" don't want the plebs owning guns
@@JG-fv9bv what does money have to do with skill. I have seen plenty of people who are quite good who have to use cheap guns and pellets but they are still not bad
@@callumbmx9763 because if the price of pellets / ammunition / cartridges etc double , treble due to metal prices and manufacturing costs ....it will price those out of the sport whom are on limited or tight budgets
So where's pt 2?
I bought a set of 500 diablo 22 pellets for £22 pounds then I bought 500 marksman pointed 22 pellets for £6 pounds and the cheapest are better in my opinion the lead seems softer
One thing I see happening in the future when the US bans lead totally is a shift to air guns shooting longer bullets and probably some type of HP for hunting purposes. Tin weighs much less so you are going to be exceeding the sound barrier with some guns unless you lower your power. Kind of counteracting the benefits of air gunning. I don't think your barrel life will suffer because people now days are demanding firearm industry standard steel for their barrels. We are talking about Tin not copper really. Tin is harder than lead but I dont think wears like copper. Some big bore users have aready been using those all copper hollowpoints designed for firearms. I think I will stick with lead until people start freaking out about birds that generate an affinity for the stuff.
I must add that when you increase length hopefully you have a design that overcomes the friction! If you do then a faster twist barrel will be needed. If you can have the power and the twist then your barrels will start to have the same properties of a firearm barrel (except smaller OD and probably longer). So, faster twist, better steels 1040/1050/416. Maybe lands and grooves will be a different configuration? But if we are in the firearm ballpark why cant we play with the same balls that the major-leagers play with?? Ok that came out wrong.... What I meant to say was maybe then we can leave the proprietary air gun pellet diameters behind and go to .172, .204, .224, .308, 312, 357, .400, .429,.457.
Some big bores are already playing with the same balls.
4:03 don´t worry about the barrel ! Steel is much harder than copper and much harder than brass to !! :))
How about making lead free pellets the same weight as lead by lengthening the pellets?
The challenge here is that tin is too light, the pellets are longer than normal pellets and still weigh a lot less, this creates instability especially with side winds.
Hmmm, so the lead free are specifically rated for 30m, could you try 60m just to see what happens? Thank you again!
I tried the tin pellets at 60m and couldn't hit an A5 paper... they are big and light weight and not very good.
@@AimSmall Gotcha thank you, great info!
I wonder if tungsten pellets would be any good
Too hard, will damage the barrel.
The tins have to fight through the lead debris causing them to fly.
Ballistically we all know lead is the best material for pellets/bullets. Banning lead would put the shooting community in somewhat of a headache. There should be more effort made in collection and re cycling, than an outright ban.
Well said. Thank you.
Can someone please help? Up to which caliber don't you need a license in the RSA.
up to .22 in air rifle is lisence free. The LAW stipulates calibre 5.56mm and up needs lisence, thus 5.5mm is under this requirement. There is currently a proposal to change this. If the calibe is above 5.56 the power output needs to be lower than 6fpe or a lisence will be required.
@@AimSmall Baie dankie.
The last two rats I took out were immediately pounced on by a hawk... I definitely don't want to be poisoning that hawk with leaded pellets. It feeds its babies with those rats.
Sorry to inform you but the "copper" pellets are just copper coated, they are lead inside.
@@AimSmall I know... But a coating is still a protection from stomach acid... Not ideal... You just shot some that were not lead OR copper... H&N right? The accuracy left much to be desired...
@@bosatsu76 Yip, TIN, very light and all over the place.
@@AimSmall I'm currently shooting the copper ball in a lead skirt... And they're all over the place too. I get three solid hits out of ten , with 6 complete misses (and that's at 6 yards)... Hate to think it's me, but it probably is...
You really think there is any piece of the bullet left in the body of the rat? From my experience when shooting small preys (rats, pigeons etc) the wound is open from both sides going in and out. Nothing left inside.
top akurasi call22 BM
Lead spreads out for hunting while holding accuracy.
Tin and others for targets.
I hear you, the challenge is that tin pellets are very expensive, I do more target shooting than hunting, practicing less again has a negative impact on my hunting accuracy. I don't have the answer but I do know that banning lead will kill the industry and create a lot of job losses and other negative financial and social spin offs.
@@AimSmall
The New World Order is in play and all we can do is comply or be taken away in chains. At minimum fined into bankruptcy.
If the copper is slower than led at the same power setting. Witch one has a higher energy?
Copper coating has more friction, thus slower out of barrel
@@AimSmall my question was. what is the difference in the energy (fpe) between the copper and led? Not why is copper slower.
Are you saying because its slower it has less energy?
@@christiannorris7673 The FPE definately is lower due to the lower speed
I have about 4-5 kg of lead pellets and only one tin of copper coated,they do look nice and shiny but expensive AF,, but I live in Canada 🇨🇦 so it doesn't apply to me. I just need some more .22 and I am good for life..
Soooo is it true that British government doesn't want you to use lead pellets??? I find that stupid...
You said higher power air rifle permit ??? Please explain Sir. Thanks
Certain countries only allow for sub 12fpe airrifles, like in the UK, anything with more power needs a lisence.
@@AimSmall I never realized that a person needs a license for the fast 12 fpe air rifles. Would you give me some more information on this please. Here on the other side of the pond USA we do not have any real restrictions. Thanks
@@victoryfirst2878 USA is gun friendly, you don't need a lisence for an airrifle.
@@AimSmall Got it fella. Thanks
@@victoryfirst2878 in Canada 500fps is max velocity a person can have without a fire arms license.
What regulation for the UK?
Sub 12ftlb for uk wont be good for these pellets at all, speed to slow.
Copper will harm the barrel?
A buildup of it will certainly affect accuracy and precision.
Brass would be better than copper as its self lubricating
USA I find the copper a little more accurate but not enough to justify the cost. And you are still putting lead in the back stop.
Not long till commyn laws say only GOLD for pellets under 100 fps!?!? Hoho
The ban on lead doesn't make sense. The lead in pellets comes from the ground anyway.
Gert we dont have a lead ban here at moment only for duck shooting! With shotguns
Rgds steve
What ammo do you use then?
@@AimSmall steel shot.
How are the Brits sub 12 ft lbs gonna handle the heavier copper projectiles😢
You know at the velocities of airguns I highly doubt copper will put any appreciable wear on a barrel. Given a 22 LR barrel lasts arguably FOREVER using copper etc...airguns not a problem.
Remember that LR barrels are made of solid steel, some of the pellet barrels like the FX liners are a bit more flimsy and might get scratch marks inside that will effect accuracy. One of the chaps at patriot had to replace his liner 3 times due to "bad" or hard lead slugs...
@@AimSmall Oh! Well that was a big assumption on my side that they'd also be made of proper steel. Liners are pretty cheap though, so would be interested if lifespan would be measurable in using copper/lead free materials?
@@whiterock1865 Currently a competition airrifle can go up to about 30 000+ shots before the barrel wears out, but if you load nonsens ammo it can scratch the barrel inside, making grooves that will effect accuracy going forward.
@@AimSmall They will dull the rifling edge slowly. my 1936-49 Crosmans hit at 700fps 9 pumps (lic req) and they have real steel barrels but airguns later than 1950's used more economic metals even pot metal variants which will dull.
Interesting, I hit subscribe several times and it didn’t work.
lead pellets may be still used in the EU ,if the lead is shot in een pellettrap or indoors and can be recycled ,thats how its looks till now. do you get a clean barrel before switching the brand off pellets ,
if you want power at 100 meters ,,then a leadfree slug type of decent weight is the future
There is no decent weight lead free pellets. For the purpose of this exercise I shot the lead first, then the copper to make sure that I don't have to clean the barrel too many times, as each clean then requires the barrel to be leaded in again...
@@AimSmall they should be made .in a slug form .no hollow base .to gain weight
It's not the future except for zealots.
Oneself is not the best judge of being alright'ish ;)
Any silver pellets out there?🤣🇺🇸
R u r u r u ready or righteous
Copper is to dear
Non lead ammo sucks
Fmj pellets wtf
so I can go out and kill 200 rats but it has to be environmentally friendly pellets O.O are they taking the piss ?
I agree with you 100%.
Lol tell your army to stop using it too
Believe in Jesus Christ and ask him for eternal life
It makes no bloody difference other than to make life more miserable
100% agree.
USELESS test. all pellets need different tuning in the gun to be accurate. some pellets work on one gun and not in the other.. You should clean the barrel and shoot a full tin of pellets before comparison...
If you were shooting BENCH then Yes I would agree with the cleaning scenario. But pellets aren't that fussy. I did try the cleaning barrel thing as well after I made the video... same results, nothing chenged. In short, lead free pellets are useless. End of story.
keep the POLITICS out of the sport over lead.
Too much talking a repeating
Very long and boring