Does League Of Legends actually sound good?? || Waveform
Вставка
- Опубліковано 1 чер 2024
- League Of Legends is the most popular game in the world right now, why doesn't it have a dynamic mix? Do you like the sound of league? do you play with no volume?
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Website: marshallmcgee.com/
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All clips used in this video are protected from copyright law under fair use for educational purposes.
Credits:
Thanks to MrLogan11122 for the gameplay video in the listening challenge. You can support his channel here: / @thedreamingman
Credit to GDC for the overwatch talk as well
Thanks to the many other youtubers like Ohmwrecker who's commentary free league of legends gameplay is scattered throughout the video. I apologize for not remembering what channels they are from. I'm going to try to be better about this in the future.
Gameplay Footage from:
League Of Legends
Overwatch
Fortnite - Ігри
Patreon launch video!!
ua-cam.com/video/-F7o3dUZMYM/v-deo.html
Thanks for the support guys! It means the world to me :) Check out the rest of Waveform if you haven't yet, and be sure to sub for new stuff!
www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/7rokha/does_league_of_legends_sound_good/
someone posted your video on reddit, and exept of the fact that some comments are not really constructive, i thought letting you know about it
amazing how many commenters jumped on "wtf footsteps in a moba", missing the entire point of having a dynamic mix
Trotim ^^^ this x9
The point went waayyyyyy over their heads
This! ^ :D
This is one of my favorite channels, really helps me vicariously live out my failed dreams of being a sound designer
jokes on you i play league without sound
Dunno if you were joking, but i actually do play league without sound. It helps me focus more on reading opponent behavior and map awareness
Holy crap I thought you quit UA-cam after that 4 month hiatus. Love your videos man, they've gotten me into sound design.
Sorry I got caught up at work for a while! Hopefully will be back to a semi-regular upload schedule soon. Glad you like the videos man happy to hear you're getting to sound :)
Idk man coming from dota 2 league has messy audio and repetitive sound effects. In dota 2 the sound design is so good you can close your eyes and know what spells are being thrown and even tell if they miss, hit a target or know when a chanelling duration will end all by listening. Hell theres even a trivia multiple question quiz in game of various abilities to earn battlepass points. In league Theres this sharp high pitch sound you hear almost every time and on every champion. And dont get me started on teamfights coz those sharp sounds gets way too much non stop.
Absolutely in love with this channel.
I'm always excited when Marshall has uploads one of these vids, keep up the great work.
One thing I haven't confirmed but I'm pretty sure each area from the lore has its own key, like the void is in F so during teamfights if I hear a ton of stuff from that key and I know they have a velkoz and kassadin I can know I have to prepare for their burst without necessarily clocking the abilities. I feel like after so long I don't listen to individual sounds but from that total chaos of sounds my brain actually does make informed decisions.
Amazing editing work!
Brilliant work! I would love a video series that talks about sound design within your video editing. There are loads of tutorials for making youtube videos for editing but there is a significant lack in audio tutorials for video editing!
which is how battlerite did it... i dont play it anymore (after hitting top 200) but it had a nice way of sound direction in the royale mode because you couldnt see enemies but hear them when they came close or even further when fighting to compensate for the topdown camera
Great video again!
Although I don't play lol, as a sound designer I can tell pretty quick that the sound mix is muddy. One big thing to fix this would be a dynamic mix as you said. But while I think the sfx for itself sound great, they don't get along very well while played simultaneously.
I hear long tails and reverbs in the sound effects, alot of voices have tons of effects on them (demon voices etc) and one sound uses alot of the frequency spectrum.
When you listen to overwatch sfx, they're very very clean and pretty dry. They have tails, but they're very quiet and soft so they don't mud the mix too much. And every character uses certain frequencies mainly.
Mei has alot of high frequencies, while Lucios effects are much lower.
I think the problem in lol is they want everything to sound super epic and big and dramatic, while overwatch focuses on charismatic sfx.
That's just my two or three cents, keep it up :))
To be honest, i think league of legends sound is so deprecated, not clear at all. I think it has the worst sound of all games i have ever played before. I really enjoy sharpness and smoothness and legue of legends doesn't have any.
Welcome back!
Welcome back mate. Missed ya.
I was like who tf this then I remember you're the guy in boston who made that beat with random sounds. good to see u play league love this game!
didnt know who you were before the video, but I loved it, really great editing and quality!
Love the video, but for the listening challenge I think it shows how much time you spend in league if you can catch it's the wrong audio before the reveal. So many sounds were missing that I expected and the turret lock-on confused me since it was on a minion. :P
videos like this will help improve the quality of the game
I mean, league has lots of sounds that are the "delayed action but extremely important" kind. Like Sion or Kled ult they just make it blare your ears off, most other things they just make the equivalent of visually screaming so you can't miss it (Though I personally always have a hard time gauging how long Bard's stasis will last if I wasn't looking when it hit).
Also I beat your silly little listening challenge, I thought you were supposed to listen with your eyes closed but halfway through I opened them and got really confused as to what sounded like Caitlyn's autos and Irelia screaming could be heard. Some characters have distinct enough sound profiles that you can hear them through the cacophony that is teamfights.
Immediately started looking for an Irelia at the swordslash sound, that gave away the "secret" right away
You should look at the sound design of "Cuphead"
Also, it's good to have you back!
great video. i actually did a presentation in class about league's sound design. i completely agree with you, league has some really good sound effects. its a shame they don't use the tools that they have to make the game sound good in teamfights. raising the abilities from the most fed enemy champion in the mix, giving key abilities higher priority and minor abilities lower priority (ex. why is swains ult so loud etc.)
What's your opinion on "Hellblade: Senua's sacrifice" and its binaural audio? I think an episode about it would be great.
Nice video!!
Your patreon reward tiers made me really want you to do an episode on one punch man's audio, even though it's not a game I would still love to hear what you have to say aboout it.
Hi Marshall, loving your videos. I wanted to know how you would make an insect like monster growl, like with that crackle in the voice or things like that. Cheers !
Monster sound design is sometimes about layering. Like taking the low rumble from an alligator and maybe the high hiss and screech from a bird and playing them on top of each other and seeing how they add up and work together :)
thanks for the advice cheers to u mate your videos are really helping me on my current project !
I still think about this video and I still desperately want to know if you've played Dota 2 yet. This vid is so good, you deserve to be serenaded by a moba soundscape that will treat you right lol.
Oh thank god your back
they may not have an dynamic mix but they got an dynamic queue, oh wait YIKES
I kinda disagree with your points. I think the suggestions you make would make league sound 'prettier' rather than necessarily better. With all of the ducking/amplifying effects you mention, they all seem to bring more spectacle to the sound, but at the cost of reducing the information you receive.
For example, lowering the sounds of other abilities when someone ults makes the ult sound cooler, but at the cost of you being less aware of potentially more important abilities.
Footsteps are also an odd suggestion. They would add extra sound to the game without adding any more information. If you could gain some useful information about the game from footstep sounds, it would be unbalanced because many champions don't have feet or otherwise fly. I also believe some skins hover when they would otherwise walk, leading to issues with people being able to pay for an advantage.
In your example, I listened with my eyes closed and could tell pretty much everything that was going on. Sure, it sounded quite 'muddy', but all of the information you needed was there. I would be very annoyed if I missed out on key tells just because someone ulted and drowned out every other sound.
I can’t favorite this enough.
arglactable: Well, I think the issue with muddiness is caused more by the sound effects themselves being a bit dirty than a volume issue. In fact, from an information standpoint, I think some of the ultimates should be less pronounced in favour of quieter abilities. Things like a Miss Fortune ult can drown out a lot of other sounds, for example.
The reason I criticised the suggestion of footsteps is that a not insignificant portion of the video is dedicated to it. The decision to not include footsteps was purely attributed to not having a dynamic mix and any other possibility specifically disavowed. "There's no other good reason I can think of to leave something as basic as footsteps out of your game". I specifically gave another reason not to have footsteps. I very much doubt the reason Riot didn't include footsteps was because they didn't have the ability to make the sounds quieter. It's much more likely to be just another design decision made somewhere in the development process because footsteps add more noise without adding more information. From a 'playing the game with your eyes closed' standpoint, they add nothing.
You, too, seem to have gotten hung up on my specific examples. I gave an overview, then explained individual examples I disagreed with. My overall point is still that none of the suggested changes actually helped the information the player receives. They only serve to make the game 'sound better', which isn't necessarily good for gameplay. There is a reason a lot of high-level gamers turn their graphics settings way down in FPS games. 'Pretty' doesn't necessarily mean 'better for gameplay'.
Yeah but in overwatch you are a first person character. You can only hear the sounds around you. In League, you can listen to any part of the map you would like.
I think people are grossly underestimating what it would take to implement a dynamic mixer and keep it balanced among several patches across 100+ champions. I mean, if they nerf an ability, do they have to nerf it's impact in the dynamic mixer too?
Do human beings have to be coddled by technology because 'human beings are expected to reasonably able to discern from a dense cacophony of sound'? Why don't we create a dynamic mixer for soldiers in the heat of battle in war?! Now i'm going on a tangential rant but the point I would like to get across to you is I think it's so easy to make a video and judge why something isn't good enough than to actually make the idea happen yourself and see if it's actually worth it!
For instance one of your ideas is "Give players much more focussed audio-feedback to allow for better threat-detection." Do you realize what a nothingburger of a statement you just made here? This is just an abstract ideal that you want RiotGames to somehow materialize and actually put the work into realizing for you.
I say meh to your list of bullet points that you flashed on screen for 3s, make an actual prototype or demo and now we're talking.
@@Arglactable can't aggree. The thing is, those "potentially more important abilities" are decided by you, the champ you're playing and the whole situation at the present moment. With no dynamic you can pick your attention on what you want and what is important for you at that specific time.
I agree there could be some level of dynamic audio, but it should be done carefully.
I think the LoL sounds are each WAY too long. Get 5 spells at roughly the same time on screen and it's a blurr for 3 seconds.
Similar games like Dota2 and HoN have a much more short and stabby sound design in regards to spells and attacks, which really helps with information since there are less chanses of more sounds overlapping
I was looking at that clip and the sounds and I was like.... That doesn't fit, and then you explained and I was glad I know that much
Footsteps and that moment when a 20+ stacked Cho runs at you from the unwarded bush with rightious glory, om nom nom nom nom.
I'm not sure, I understand where you're coming from but I feel like being able to hear everything at the same level is really important when it comes to achieving a high level of skill. Every ability is something to keep track of and in a game you should already know what to expect from the 9 other champions in the game. I'd probably be infuriated if a shield from Janna is noticably louder than the w from the Zed who hasn't damaged me yet.
Nice trick on the mind by mixing two clips, I felt like something was off but I wasn't expecting it :-)
This reminds me of the many blind players of fighting games like mortal Kombat x and Injustice 2. Those games have really good indicators of everything you need to know in the audio. I've tried closing my eyes and playing myself and it's crazy how cool it all is.
A wild Mark Lampert at 5:35 :D
It was actually really easy to hear all 3 sounds and realize that the audio clip and video clip were completely different. Though I agree with the message, they could improve a thing or two.
What do you think about R6S sound design? I personally think it's fantastic, a lot of attention to detail.
That's funny having just read this engineering.riotgames.com/news/under-hood-league-client%E2%80%99s-hextech-ui
"Using the fantastic Web Audio API we’re able to wire those channels together to ensure that VO always causes background music to duck slightly, that notifications take priority over ambience, and so on."
I'm working on a paper for uni, so i'll go and do some more research and sound checks.
Kled when mounted has footsteps :D
you should do comparison between league sound and dota sound design
I was wondering if the audio was out of sync or something because the first clip does not sound right. Though I can understand if newer players could not catch on. I have been playing for 7 years now.
I definetely noticed the difference between the 2 clips.
I heard the irelia E and her zing zang and got ptsd and then thought where is irelia???
ehi Wave, would you like to do a War Thunder sound check?
P.S. I love u
Am I the only one who realized immediately those 2 clips are TOTALLY different?
For a second I thought the sound frame is behind, then I realize there is no Irelia, and the sword swing sound is clearly Irelia's blade surge
The in game sounds aren't always the cleanest but damn the music videos...
uhm so my question is,, while in queue i can hear the sound, but when i’m in game the sound just... disappears? how do i fix this? :’D
yessss
the thing is: I agree with a lot of points, but I don't think you can compare the importance of clear sound design in a fps with a top down moba yk
Make shadow of the colossus sound please
I would say that Riot would look at this and change the game but they just made the decision to buff Yasuo's ultimate abiity AD so I'm losing hope.
Meanwhile in dota2 you can make up what's going on in a huge fight while having your eyes closed. And no I'm not making this up. www.reddit.com/r/DotA2/comments/n515qo/can_we_appreciate_the_sound_design_in_dota/
1. I am lead sound design for a game. 2. I understand why they would leave footsteps out, even with a dynamic mix, and that comes down to the mechanics of the game. 3. I agree that they don't have dynamic mix, and that team fights are a hellish cacophony, even when they don't need to be. 4. I love League of Legends, and agree about their actual sound design. Also... props to them for their music, they do it so damn well sometimes.
Naaah the moment Garens AA on the turrent didnt get me hard, I noticed
There might be some additional issues related to gameplay and player information that come from sound design. How would footsteps work in the fog of war? In most games footsteps are audible regardless of vision. Also, highlighting who's focusing you is also a direction Riot has actively went away from; the game actually used to highlight enemies who are targeting you with a nice red outline.
I fully agree with the argument that League could use additional clearness regarding sound, but such audio changes would likely have serious impact of the balance of the game as a whole. And that's on top of the time and resources required to rebuild the audio engine and remaster its assets.
Remember Evelynn? When she targets you with her charm, she drowns out the mix by ducking everything else. Isn't that a dynamic mix right there. Also, if league were to dynamically mix all abilities that could cause many unintended side effects with over 100+ champions to mix. They would probably spend more time and money balancing audio, which is time that could be spent balancing game play.
That's just from a financial perspective but also the changes you suggest have massive in game effects that are complicated and not as subtle as you might think.
In a Bird's eye view, strategy action game, every piece of information is crucial and the changes you suggested massively affect the integrity of information in the game. Like others have pointed out some champs make sense for footsteps while other champs fly, leading to fog of war advantageous. Also, the dynamic mixer might not know the correct sounds to highlight, in certain situations basic abilities can decide the fight or even game rather than an ultimate. Trade off's always have to be made in game development; for a large constantly evolving & updating MOBA like LoL, dynamically mixing every sound is a boon for game play.
War is muddy.
That's not exactly dynamic mix but it's close to what can be achieved with a dynamic mix engine.
Also dynamic mixing in a videogame engine is quite different than making a normal mix.
When the engine is changed the proccess is automatic, you just have to configure parameters and "if's" (for example the janna shield would be something like 'if health
u make some incredible great points so I subbed I am interested in sound design but I don't want to sound like so guy who can't make up his mind about his career path
Oh gooosh, I can't put into words how good this show is ;w;
Because Riot does simply not fucking care.
How about the different sound effects for different skins causing confusion? Do you see that as a negative because in my opinion it sort of is
Just my two cents, here, but there are a LOT of sounds in league of legends. Categorizing them all by importance and assembling the mix seems like a monumental task for a game that size if it's not already in the game to begin with... so Riot might just think it's not worth it.
"no other reason" well if u like consistency then adding footsteps that would play for each character would imply u should be able to listen to the enemies footsteps even if out of vision. That is the point of footsteps in many other games, when looking from a strategic point of view. Seeing as this would change a lot and frankly ruin certain vision aspects, you cannot be allowed to listen to enemy footsteps and yet that would be inconsistent [from a mechanic point of view] eg, why would i hear my allies footsteps and not my enemies, therefore no one has any footsteps. Seems like a rotten bandage sort of answer, but it depends where u want consistency and what you want aesthetically. Frankly i never noticed and dont care, but just food for thought.
Certain champs would have to be rebalanced around footstep. The fact that Bard can roam picking up chimes means he is allowed to float, removing any footsteps of his impending gank. If Ali or Thresh went to roam, their audio would warn the mid laner despite him not having vision.
I would rather for you to compare League to DotA cause Overwatch and Fortnite are completely other genres. In MOBAs you have minimap that could give you information about enemy positioning. In FPSs like two you mentioned (yes, I count Overwatch as FPS not MOBA) you need sound to know where your enemy is and where are they shooting from. You have no way of setting up vision to notice them beforehand or after they hit you. So for me your arguments become invalid just because you basically compare oranges to apples.
Did u ever play the gamne ? I dunno bout you but if i had to hear footsteps while playing league I would go insane. Also filtering the sounds in league is a huge part in league. League is a very fast pasted game and alot of things happen just during 2 or 3 seconds. An experienced league player makes huge use of just hearing the sounds of animations of abilitys to dodge them. because once you hear a sound u look out what made it and if u recognize it u can use that to dodge the ability. Since I play league for quite some time and I recognize every sound of any ability I also easily recognized that the first clip wasn't matching with the sound. In fact League actually does sound good in the way you wanted to proof it doesn't. I dunno about that dynamic mix or something but leaguer sound is very good the way it is.
early owo hi sound master
Another reason Dota 2 is better than League
Kappa
That listening challenge was a ruse, there were no 10 year olds calling me a nigga 12 times per second.
Having audio being turned up by people doing damage to you is a horrible idea. I would hate to have that happen. And just because someone is using an ult doesn't mean that it sound drown out other "lesser" abilities sounds. Let's say Allistar ults, I don't really give a damn compared to knowing that a Lux snare is coming my way.
Too bad game sucks anyways
thats your point of view, personnaly I think none of these changes are good, the game is all about seing things and animations, we could complain about skins making it harder to read, but putting footsteps in the game would really make me upset, nobody could play teemo anymore :((
🤣🤣🤣
I dont think footsteps are a good idea in a moba though. Just unnecessary.
Footstep sounds do not belong in a MOBA, absolutely not. And changing the volume of sounds based on their context is a fun idea, but any avid league player would tell you that it sounds intrusive and doesn't mesh well with the atmosphere of the game.
JamEngulfer mentioned something that resonates with me, and that was that your suggestions seem to be more in the interest of making the game prettier rather than helping you get information, which is a core philosophy of the game. And as lindholmaren mentioned, there are some dynamic sounds, like Kled or Sion ult, which are extremely important and long range abilities that are much louder than other sounds, as it makes the enemy very aware that they are happening, to give you chance to react. If Riot were to make other abilities a higher volume, it would be incredibly inconsistent and hypocritical of their own sound/game design.
The point is information gets lost in the clusterfuck of sounds. The “information” instead becomes incomprehensible nonsense. Check out his Overwatch video, which I think is the closest comparison of clustered team fights having distinct and profound clarity even in moments of tantamount chaos
Footsteps make ZERO SENSE to have in a top-down MOBA. Everything that there is to see is on the screen for you. If you could hear enemies out of vision that would take away the importance of warding.
I lost some brain cells when reading this comment
Dota 2 has much more clear and distinct sounds imo
I think your'e confusing cs go with league..i dont know much about all this shit mind you XD..but i really think adding footsteps is just distracting in a normal game..drowning out other sounds just because someone made more damage than others..and i guess you want the sound to be more.."spacious"? I guess..like if the camera is slightly upward to the left then the sound would echo from there to the bottom?..yeah its sounds like a sound critic to a fps game or a RPG
Not legit.
If you were paying attention you could hear Irelia.
And teamfights are A MESS
no one cares about this there are many problems in game to fix like nerfing yasuo
before this dynamic sound
Play DotA 2 instead lol
Dota maybe would be a better game if it wouldnt feel like you had 300 ping even if you have 20
Actually I'd say the sound mix is pretty decent in Dota. Even if nobody plays, spectate a couple games (without commentary) and pay attention to how the sounds play out. There are even footsteps! But I guarantee you're not gonna hear those during a Silencer ult. ;)
Wants clear and audible sounds.. complains that there are no footsteps to make the layers of sound even more chaotic
Mickey did you??? Miss the entire point??? Of the dynamic mix????