@@monsieurcharcutier4490he’s commented the same thing multiple times. And he still hasn’t gotten the facts straight, because Catherine only wanted a Greek Empire
The 1880s were a wild time. Like every major power was fracturing. Rurouni kenshin cracked open Japan’s border. El Papa became an islander in Rome. The US was armwrestling human rights. Crazy times
Unrealistic you don’t understand Britains perspective on European crisis’. Britain will always support the side least likely to unite Europe. Divide and rule
@AzureWolf168he does sometimes, but not this time. The whole point of federation was to unite Italy even in nominal way the whole point of Italian unification was to free Italy from foreign influence, if you leave Lombardia and Venice- Friuli under Austrian rule, than there is no point in federation, and the Pope would be overthrown like IRL.
I don’t think the alliances and war would happen as you showed One big reason for Germanys naval build up was its colonies And withe out Germany fully unifying the Berlin conference could play out much differently then in our time or maybe even never happen But that’s more of a small part of the video Overall gut video keep it up
I like the sceanrio but the part with the Brits joining the Catholic side doesnt make sense. Firstly, why would Prussia build up it's navy when their army would be priority number one as that is all protecting them. Secondly, The United Kingdom wanted a balance of power so they would most likely be neutral until a war starts. Thirdly, The English and Prussian/North German throne are nor far from each other so an alliance would just simply make sense. Fouthly, Prussia would not need such a navy as they would likely not have many colonies with them now being as powerful.
@@Duque-Oldemburg I don't think it's "united", per se. If you mean united by HRE standards then yeah, that's accurate. **ahem** HRE falling apart type united
@@lunalingo4461 not to sure. England would have a lot of overseas colonies to defend. Italy France and OE would have free rein over Africa and Japan would attempt to take English Asian and hit Russia in the back. The Russian navy was a joke and maybe in this time the AH would be competent with forming the three crowns kingdom keeping the people from being disloyal
Interesting scenario, but I'd guess it would be a stalemate if the fought all of europe which would be spain, France, Portugal, Austria-Hungary, the balkans, the ottomans, and the benelux countries, also Japan still a rising power but it would be a massive problem for the Russians in the east
What if Pope had adopted the cult of Makima, Revy, Cutie Honey, Marin Kitagawa, Trixie Tang, Judy Neutron, Marge Simpson, Wendy Corduroy, Lois Griffin, Sailor Moon and Maddie Fenton instead of Abrahamic shit?
With Pius IX having an earlier (and possibly longer) reign, the first Vatican council would likely not be cut short, since in our timeline, it had been cut short due to the revolutions.
Honestly, I rlly doubt the UK would join the roman alliance, the UK in fact seems a natural ally of Prussia and Russia first, without germany unified and france and austria still being treats I highly doubt North Germany would try a naval arms race against britain since thats the least of its concerns, specially not to the level it did in our timeline, in our world it did partly due to them already seeing themselves as the rulers of the continent second the roman block is basically a Catholic block while Great Britain is protestant like the north germans third, the brits are known for their balance of power policy, and them joining the catholic block would anhilate said balance fourth, the Italian, French and Austrian navies together are a british nightmare in the mediterranean fifth, the french and italians have several opposing goals to that of the british, unlike the russians and north germans whose goals are mainly continental and dont overlay with those of the british sixth, a Napoleon Bonaparte in the throne of France With the UK on the Prusso-Russian alliance the war would actually be fairly balanced and could go both ways, specially since both sides were mainly authoritarian the US is far less likely to favour any side unless some specific event or series of events happen
another note: Because the 2nd italian war of independence never happening, the Interior Minister, defacto leader, of the Austrain Empire Alexander von Bach never resign, thus neo-absolutism in austria would survive and there wouldn't be an austria hungary in this timeline
thank you for saying eastern roman empire and reconquered, if you ask me "byzantine" is an insult and the person who made the word up was obviously a believer in the HRE being the actual rome
I don't see Italy benefitting from papal control. The interests of the nation would become inextricably linked with those of the entire church. As a consequence, opposition to Italy means opposition towards the pope, and vice versa. Anti-catholic and anti-Italian sentiment are much more closely linked, as many conspiracy theories suddenly become credible. Popes tend to undermine their own legitimacy by becoming heavily involved in wordly politics as happened during the Italian wars. As conflict with Italy unavoidably becomes conflict with the Pope, even catholic countries start to become obstinate as the moral authority of the church ebbs away. Inevitably the Pope will demand something too unreasonable or too arrogant from secular rulers of catholic nations, and people see it as only serving the interests of Italy. And defiance of the Pope becomes expected of leaders who must act in the best interests of their nation, or give the pretense of doing so. It also makes the supreme pontif the target of discontented citizens in Italy itself, who will always be a problem for the papacy. Under a secular government, the church has the option to (pretend) to stand up for the common man when the high falootin' gentlemen in Rome fail to adress the issues that plague any 19th century state. Such as conscription, industrial safety standards, electoral representation, cultural/religious minorities, etc. It can't do so under theocracy, and any real or imagined policy failure falls on the Pope's shoulders. And as the papacy cannot so easily change its position as a government through regular elections or plain old pragmatic flip-flopping, it would be ill-equipped to change course even if it is headed towards a disaster. And as opposition to the government is again inextricably linked with opposition to church policy, more and more people who cross that treshold where they no longer fear the exclusion from not being in communion with the church because their lives have become intolerable, will seek their salvation in protestantism or atheism. And as more of them see the Pope not as the representative of God on earth, the wordly authority that was married to the position declines as well. Leaving papal Italy vulnerable to a liberal or socialist revolution, or a transition to anti-revolutionary fascism.
You know, make two indipendent kingdoms, one semi indipendent grand duchy and two puppet duchies all agreeing to give up their power in order to make the Pope the head of the Confederation wasn't feasible. Not only there's also the issue of Lombardy-Venetia, which would cause frictions with the most powerful catholic state in Europe at the time, but also the differences between the various Italian monarchies, plus the hostility of many monarchs to not concede liberal constitutions.
I find this timeline unrealistic britan main goal was preserve the balance of power and joining the Roman’s would put Europe under complete Roman control so I think that britan would either stay neutral or join the Protestant Prussia ether option would lead to a close war because of how weak Italy is in this timeline, how even further Austria is unstable because now they have a rebellious Italian population as well and how the Franco Austrian rivalry isn’t just about Italy they would compete for the south German states as well which would lead to tensions between the 2. I think Austria would break into revolts pretty quickly and they have historically been militarily incompetent since the 30 years war
What if the Revolutions of 1848 were just less radical? Liberal and secular, but not murdery. Maybe the book mentioned in the beggining simply makes a bigger splash and thus the revolutionaries have to moderate due to their Catholic allies?
10:54 correction, it was the two sicilies that had the best army, now you may ask then why they lost ? answer is easy since the brithis funded the kingdom of savoy for uniting italy they used money to buy and currupt two sicilian generals and politicians alowing for garibaldi to have an easy land with no restistance with the help of the newly created mafias to conquer sicily and south italy wiht ease ( obvliusli with many war crimes r4pes and looting of the south like looting the bank of sicily and of naples and destroying villages and the metal factories of the kingdom turning it into a third world country or in other words a colony that to this day is used and suffers descrimination in italian politics )
Would Papal Italy maintain good relations with the Ethiopians in our timeline or would their piss poor relations with Italy continue to happen anyways?
Neo-Guelphism 🇮🇹🇻🇦(Italian Unification under the Pope) succeeding in the 19th century, might lead to Ecclesiastical Latin becoming the official and most common language in Italy instead of Italian. Modern Italian is primarily based on the Florentine dialect of the Tuscan Language. Only a small minority of Italians spoke Italian when Italy was unified in 1861 (2.5% according to Wikipedia). Most Italians spoke other local languages and dialects 🍕.
It just said if the pope united italy, Not if he stays in power, In which i find it very unlikely for the new Sardinian Government to just summit to the french soldiers, In which France would have crushed the "Italian Federation" and return it to pre-Federation ways. I dont see the Italian Nationalist to just give up as French soldiers are in rome, They would had either won and or lost. I dont see the pope holding his lands unless the Italian Nationalist just gives up.
Off topic but; Josh, I really respect the work that you do, but you need to either stop adding to the fire or put it out. I suggest the latter. The viewers would respect you for it. I see that your video from a week ago didn't really gain much likes. And I don't think it's because people don't like you. I believe its because as a viewer drama and fights on public platforms like UA-cam are not good and distracting, since it's easier for an argument to get radicalized when its online.
Here's a fun scenario what if the great Greek plan (Catherine the Great of Russia's planet to restore the Byzantine Empire )succeeded
Amazing idea
Are you asking this in Monsieur Z's comments too or is it someone else because I've seen that suggestion there too
same questions@@monsieurcharcutier4490
@@monsieurcharcutier4490he’s commented the same thing multiple times. And he still hasn’t gotten the facts straight, because Catherine only wanted a Greek Empire
Damn they wanted to restore a planet and call it byzantium
I feel like north Germany being in a weaker position would lead them to remain on better terms with Britain.
As a Catholic hearing about this alternative timeline is so bittersweet. If only the people who pushed for it weren't so liberal.
fr
The 1880s were a wild time. Like every major power was fracturing. Rurouni kenshin cracked open Japan’s border. El Papa became an islander in Rome. The US was armwrestling human rights. Crazy times
What if humans had longer life spans
Did you just watch Frieren? 😂
It would get too crowded
would never happen trust me
@@Salt_and_PeroxideWell it already happened IRL. Before the Flood humans had long lifespans some live up to 900+ years
longer wars
Unrealistic you don’t understand Britains perspective on European crisis’. Britain will always support the side least likely to unite Europe. Divide and rule
"Unrealistic alternate history can be dangerous"
*proceeds to make an unrealistic scenario*
👆 underrated comment.
It isn’t that unfealistic if you watch it
Fax
L 4u
@AzureWolf168he does sometimes, but not this time. The whole point of federation was to unite Italy even in nominal way the whole point of Italian unification was to free Italy from foreign influence, if you leave Lombardia and Venice- Friuli under Austrian rule, than there is no point in federation, and the Pope would be overthrown like IRL.
I don’t think the alliances and war would happen as you showed
One big reason for Germanys naval build up was its colonies
And withe out Germany fully unifying the Berlin conference could play out much differently then in our time or maybe even never happen
But that’s more of a small part of the video
Overall gut video keep it up
I like the sceanrio but the part with the Brits joining the Catholic side doesnt make sense.
Firstly, why would Prussia build up it's navy when their army would be priority number one as that is all protecting them.
Secondly, The United Kingdom wanted a balance of power so they would most likely be neutral until a war starts.
Thirdly, The English and Prussian/North German throne are nor far from each other so an alliance would just simply make sense.
Fouthly, Prussia would not need such a navy as they would likely not have many colonies with them now being as powerful.
I'd like to see a scenario where PH decided to make a harsh response to Josh's harsh response and creates an Alternate History civil war
Which of the two responses would PH be responding to?
No, no way, this discussion should not continue, and should remain outside the alternative history community, to keep us united.
@@Duque-Oldemburg I don't think it's "united", per se. If you mean united by HRE standards then yeah, that's accurate. **ahem** HRE falling apart type united
As a catholic i thank you for this!🙏🙏🙏🙏✝️✝️✝️✝️✝️
Hey fellow Catholic! Puerto Rican here🇵🇷✌️✝️
Please stop touching kids xx
can u delete the video’s on PH.
why
As an Italian this ideal was so popular in Lombardy/or a confederation..that would have been scary
What if the three cousins fought the rest of Europe and Japan in ww1?
That would be very interesting
That's such an easy win for the cousins
Literally the 3 most powerful Nations in Europe
@@lunalingo4461 not to sure. England would have a lot of overseas colonies to defend. Italy France and OE would have free rein over Africa and Japan would attempt to take English Asian and hit Russia in the back. The Russian navy was a joke and maybe in this time the AH would be competent with forming the three crowns kingdom keeping the people from being disloyal
Interesting scenario, but I'd guess it would be a stalemate if the fought all of europe which would be spain, France, Portugal, Austria-Hungary, the balkans, the ottomans, and the benelux countries, also Japan still a rising power but it would be a massive problem for the Russians in the east
What if Pope had adopted the cult of Makima, Revy, Cutie Honey, Marin Kitagawa, Trixie Tang, Judy Neutron, Marge Simpson, Wendy Corduroy, Lois Griffin, Sailor Moon and Maddie Fenton instead of Abrahamic shit?
in this timeline I can see a papal version of the French foriegn legion being formed
There actualy was a sort of papal "foreign legion" irl. They were called The Papal Zouaves
Suggestion josh: What if Baltazar Carlos survives and there is no war of spanish succession?
Really interesting video Josh! Great work as always!
Thanks + Here is a new idea for next video : What if England won the hundred years war
*VIDEO SUGGESTION:*
What if The Revolutions Of 1848 had never happened?
Big Vatican! 🇻🇦🇻🇦🇻🇦🇻🇦🇻🇦🇻🇦
The popes version of Austria hubgary
hubgary
I missed clicked…@@quempire2656
What if Japan joined the Central Powers?
Oh yeah then The Qing would be backed by the European powers and would be in a somewhat better position to possibly Industrialize.
Howdy Josh. This was amazing. I wonder how would France fare with Napoleon III still in power in this TL.
I Love this Scenario!
Great Job Josh!
With Pius IX having an earlier (and possibly longer) reign, the first Vatican council would likely not be cut short, since in our timeline, it had been cut short due to the revolutions.
Always a pleasure when Josh uploads
13:44 Do you think the balkans wars would happen without the Italo- Turkish war though?
Can you do what if Austria unified Germany
Imagine if the Opinion 1 Scenario became a HOI4 Mod!
It Shows how GREAT of a Scenario this is!
Honestly, I rlly doubt the UK would join the roman alliance, the UK in fact seems a natural ally of Prussia and Russia
first, without germany unified and france and austria still being treats I highly doubt North Germany would try a naval arms race against britain since thats the least of its concerns, specially not to the level it did in our timeline, in our world it did partly due to them already seeing themselves as the rulers of the continent
second the roman block is basically a Catholic block while Great Britain is protestant like the north germans
third, the brits are known for their balance of power policy, and them joining the catholic block would anhilate said balance
fourth, the Italian, French and Austrian navies together are a british nightmare in the mediterranean
fifth, the french and italians have several opposing goals to that of the british, unlike the russians and north germans whose goals are mainly continental and dont overlay with those of the british
sixth, a Napoleon Bonaparte in the throne of France
With the UK on the Prusso-Russian alliance the war would actually be fairly balanced and could go both ways, specially since both sides were mainly authoritarian the US is far less likely to favour any side unless some specific event or series of events happen
What if Sparta unified Greece?
I feel like siding with an explicitly catholic alliance has consequences for all sorts of domestic matters in Britain especially in Ireland
what if the union of kėdainiai actually went through? (making the polish-swedish-lithuanian commonwealth)
This is a pretty epic video, catholicism is very based!
Not really
@@thorpeaaron1110 Pinochet was Catholic
Howdy josh! Love your content!😊😊😊😊❤❤❤
Here is a fun unrealistic that hadn't really taught me much but I still enjoyed.
another note:
Because the 2nd italian war of independence never happening, the Interior Minister, defacto leader, of the Austrain Empire Alexander von Bach never resign, thus neo-absolutism in austria would survive and there wouldn't be an austria hungary in this timeline
Video idea: What if NATO didn't intervene in Yugoslav war
thank you for saying eastern roman empire and reconquered, if you ask me "byzantine" is an insult and the person who made the word up was obviously a believer in the HRE being the actual rome
I don't see Italy benefitting from papal control. The interests of the nation would become inextricably linked with those of the entire church. As a consequence, opposition to Italy means opposition towards the pope, and vice versa. Anti-catholic and anti-Italian sentiment are much more closely linked, as many conspiracy theories suddenly become credible. Popes tend to undermine their own legitimacy by becoming heavily involved in wordly politics as happened during the Italian wars. As conflict with Italy unavoidably becomes conflict with the Pope, even catholic countries start to become obstinate as the moral authority of the church ebbs away. Inevitably the Pope will demand something too unreasonable or too arrogant from secular rulers of catholic nations, and people see it as only serving the interests of Italy. And defiance of the Pope becomes expected of leaders who must act in the best interests of their nation, or give the pretense of doing so.
It also makes the supreme pontif the target of discontented citizens in Italy itself, who will always be a problem for the papacy. Under a secular government, the church has the option to (pretend) to stand up for the common man when the high falootin' gentlemen in Rome fail to adress the issues that plague any 19th century state. Such as conscription, industrial safety standards, electoral representation, cultural/religious minorities, etc. It can't do so under theocracy, and any real or imagined policy failure falls on the Pope's shoulders. And as the papacy cannot so easily change its position as a government through regular elections or plain old pragmatic flip-flopping, it would be ill-equipped to change course even if it is headed towards a disaster. And as opposition to the government is again inextricably linked with opposition to church policy, more and more people who cross that treshold where they no longer fear the exclusion from not being in communion with the church because their lives have become intolerable, will seek their salvation in protestantism or atheism. And as more of them see the Pope not as the representative of God on earth, the wordly authority that was married to the position declines as well. Leaving papal Italy vulnerable to a liberal or socialist revolution, or a transition to anti-revolutionary fascism.
Too many people do not understand the difference between a non-sectarian state,[like the U.S.] and a Secularist state.
You know, make two indipendent kingdoms, one semi indipendent grand duchy and two puppet duchies all agreeing to give up their power in order to make the Pope the head of the Confederation wasn't feasible.
Not only there's also the issue of Lombardy-Venetia, which would cause frictions with the most powerful catholic state in Europe at the time, but also the differences between the various Italian monarchies, plus the hostility of many monarchs to not concede liberal constitutions.
Thx this is great
Truly blessed timeline
20.000 congrats😁
A part of me wonders how this would affect Irish independence. Would the alliance side with its member Britain, or its catholic brethren in Ireland?
I find this timeline unrealistic britan main goal was preserve the balance of power and joining the Roman’s would put Europe under complete Roman control so I think that britan would either stay neutral or join the Protestant Prussia ether option would lead to a close war because of how weak Italy is in this timeline, how even further Austria is unstable because now they have a rebellious Italian population as well and how the Franco Austrian rivalry isn’t just about Italy they would compete for the south German states as well which would lead to tensions between the 2. I think Austria would break into revolts pretty quickly and they have historically been militarily incompetent since the 30 years war
Ironic. He could preach to others about being realistic, but fail to implement it himself.
As a Former Catholic [Now Agnostic Atheist] I Totally Approve that Scenario!
9:53 seems like you care more about sharing the scenario then actual history 🤓
What if the Revolutions of 1848 were just less radical? Liberal and secular, but not murdery. Maybe the book mentioned in the beggining simply makes a bigger splash and thus the revolutionaries have to moderate due to their Catholic allies?
This, and a crusader alt history from Videntis in the same week? Us Catholics are eating good today.
What if Poland lithuania and Austrian empire form a Alince?
britain would probably side with gemrnay here as germnay wouldnt persu a navy because they need allies and wouodnt want to alienate the uk
Not sure it's the right niche but if anyone's obsessed with hardcore Papal history I strongly recommend Schwerpunkt's relative playlist
10:54 correction, it was the two sicilies that had the best army, now you may ask then why they lost ? answer is easy since the brithis funded the kingdom of savoy for uniting italy they used money to buy and currupt two sicilian generals and politicians alowing for garibaldi to have an easy land with no restistance with the help of the newly created mafias to conquer sicily and south italy wiht ease ( obvliusli with many war crimes r4pes and looting of the south like looting the bank of sicily and of naples and destroying villages and the metal factories of the kingdom turning it into a third world country or in other words a colony that to this day is used and suffers descrimination in italian politics )
Would Papal Italy maintain good relations with the Ethiopians in our timeline or would their piss poor relations with Italy continue to happen anyways?
LIFE COULD BE A DREAM
LIFE COULD BE A DREEAAAMMM
cryin rn that the pope did not unify Italy
What if the Brazilian Empire never fell?
What if England stayed Catholic?
What if PLC unified prersonal unions with Sweden and Russia?
Austria is large huge respect
Basically the Kingdom of God from EU4 lore
What if Crassus conquered Persi
I think you currently have more of an antipope
Nah the Pope is based
Finally, a true Holy Roman Empire.
What if balkan nations before ww1 unite into Balkan federation
What if the Eureka Revolt was Successful
Neo-Guelphism 🇮🇹🇻🇦(Italian Unification under the Pope) succeeding in the 19th century, might lead to Ecclesiastical Latin becoming the official and most common language in Italy instead of Italian.
Modern Italian is primarily based on the Florentine dialect of the Tuscan Language.
Only a small minority of Italians spoke Italian when Italy was unified in 1861 (2.5% according to Wikipedia). Most Italians spoke other local languages and dialects 🍕.
What if the spain or portugal turned protestant
John Paul The Second was the best Pope!
Guess from with country I am.
Bolivia 🇧🇴
@@stevenmelendez6683 not Bolivia but close.
Poland
@@Mrcinemazo9nn Yes Sir!
You're right
@@pep-qew era bromita 🥺 claramente Polonia 🇮🇩 😎
What if josh apologized for the drama ge created?
What if I died?
It just said if the pope united italy, Not if he stays in power, In which i find it very unlikely for the new Sardinian Government to just summit to the french soldiers, In which France would have crushed the "Italian Federation" and return it to pre-Federation ways. I dont see the Italian Nationalist to just give up as French soldiers are in rome, They would had either won and or lost. I dont see the pope holding his lands unless the Italian Nationalist just gives up.
Off topic but; Josh, I really respect the work that you do, but you need to either stop adding to the fire or put it out. I suggest the latter. The viewers would respect you for it. I see that your video from a week ago didn't really gain much likes. And I don't think it's because people don't like you. I believe its because as a viewer drama and fights on public platforms like UA-cam are not good and distracting, since it's easier for an argument to get radicalized when its online.
I hoped for this video
Man, if only...
What if she comes back 😂😂😂 (i miss her)
What if Byzantium colonized the Americas
Josh not complaining in a video? Massive character development, good for you mate. Cant wait to watch more quality content instead of whining!
You writing this comment solves nothing. It's wasted time and UA-cam data.
@@lightsinthedarkness congratulating josh for actually moving on is a bad thing? Ok
@@lightsinthedarknessthink you missed the point of the comment...
@@americanmapping832 using such phrases as whining don't help the situation at all.
@@lightsinthedarkness how else would you describe doubling down when ph publicly apologized for his statements?
Blessed
Remember to stop :v and just make an apology vid
Will be in paradise
If i was Pius in this federation, I would annex slovenia
Neat
Back in the day, when nationalism was progressive :D
Ngl, I agree with this
(I don't know what to say)
Finally, the baby man moves on. However, this is junk history. Deal with it.
Vivat Cristus Rex
yoo, lets get this guy to 20k
Nice Video, but you are just as unrealistic as PH so quit it...
What if Josh apologized for whining like a baby to possible history?
Like the Pope.... nah I am a Protestant and even if I was a Catholic, I am pretty sure that I wouldn't like that heretic... neat video...
But hes not a heretic
@@lavalord8083sometimes he's not. He's but a sinner like all of humanity.
As expected, a terrible video from a terrible UA-camr.
me no like da pope
L
Who cares what you like?
De pope be what de pope be.
Great scenario Josh!
What if Josh Sullivan was real?