What if the Bavarian Monarchy Overthrew Weimar Germany
Вставка
- Опубліковано 30 тра 2024
- It's a rather well-known fact that, in 1923, Adolf Hitler would attempt to stage a coup to overthrow the Weimar government of Germany, but, what's less well known is that, Kaiser Wilhelm, the deposed last ruler of the German Empire, believed that the Bavarian House of Wittelsbach was behind the Putsch, in an attempt to seize the German Imperial Throne for themselves! In reality, the Wittelsbachs despised Hitler and the Nazis, and denounced the Putsch, but, what if this were true? What if, not only, the Wittelsbachs were behind the Putsch, but if it actually succeeded? Enjoy!
DISCORD: / discord
TWITTER: / joshsulhistory
INSTAGRAM: / josh.sullivan.history
MUSIC:
Westerwald Marsch: • Westerwald-Marsch
Koniggratzer Marsch: • ✠ Der Königgrätzer Mar...
Badenweiler Marsch: • Badenweiler Marsch [Ba...
Video Chapters:
0:00 Introduction
0:44 Background
5:07 Scenario
Sounds like a rather fun HOI4 path to me: Restoring monarchy after monarchy through that decisions menu.
It has a perfect hoi4 focus tree set up. Would love this as a mod
bro i don’t watch alternate history what on earth is “HOI4”?
@@UNIMrFrog HoI4 is Hearts of Iron IV its a strategy game made by Paradox Interactive which in the base game+dlc starts in the year 1936 and continues until you are bored with it but most stop there games from between 1945-50. You can play out a bunch of alternate history scenarios with what the devolpers made but modders on steam workshop add even more stuff altering the world map and shit.
This should really be a path added in the Great War Redux mod
This should be in the darkest hours mod in hoi4
So toure telling me that, if the Bavarians had pulled their finger out... WE COULD STILL BE IN MONARCHICAL PARADISE
Suggestion: What if Miguel da paz survived and formed the iberian union that survived?
Under portuguese rule right ?
@@NibanoTugano yep. Although Miguel would also add the Trastamara name to his house
Videntis already made this
@@NibanoTuganoWell technically yes but after gaining the Castilian and Aragonese crowns, he would likely move to Castile and rule from there.
@@zenith6939 sad
0:24 he was truly ahead of his time
In all seriousness that is a good example that not everything is a conspiracy
Can you further explain?
@@rafaelsantosnovais7813 there are some people who believe everything is a conspiracy
@@avus-kw2f213that was one example
*VIDEO SUGGESTION:*
What if Bavaria had been the one to unite Germany in The 19th Century, instead of Austria or Prussia?
Bavaria wasn't a powerhouse, so they would need proper backing, like victory in Austro- Prussian war and Austrian Empire as ally. Brandenburg-Prussia would be main adversary and last independent state...
It is possible, but they would need to get the push from Napoleon if we go that route or Bavaria would need backing from Austria after the fact.
@@alexzero3736 I tend to think people underestimate the military capacity of the Bavarians. They fought off a wave of Ottomans during the battle of Mohacs in 1687, where 20,000 troops stood their ground against 60,000 Ottomans, and this was during Prince Eugene of Savoy's early career.
The Austrian troops were less involved in the battle due to their leadership's incompetence, while Bavarian commanders (along with Eugene with his small cavalry) held their nerve. In my opinion, Bavaria is like Germany's own version of Texas in the United States, and many figures played a role in the path of both Prussia & Austria.
The Austrians considered them to be their last faithful post-HRE ally amid the long-term consequences of the Great Reformation, Napoleon, & later the Crimean War in the 19th century and later ties to Elisabeth (Sisi), the new Empress of Austria.
@@SolidAvenger1290 that's nice, but not enough. We got Skandenberg as another victor against Ottomans, but still Albania was annexed... I see Bavarian situation in case of unification around them the same as situation of Sardinia- Piedmont, the country wasn't powerful enough to fight off Austria and pull the unification itself.
@@SolidAvenger1290 I don't really think you can judge the military capacity of Bavaria in the 1800s by battles fought in the 1600s.
I have read something that may or may not have anything with this. That with the worsening of the Great Depression in 1932, a plan was floated to give the then Crown Prince of Bavaria/Rupprecht dictatorial powers in Bavaria under the title of Staatskommissar. The plan attracted support from a wide coalition of parties, including the SPD and the post-war Bavarian Minister-President (First Minister) Wilhelm Hoegner but the legal appointment of Hitler as Reichskanzler in 1933 by Hindenburg and the hesitant Bavarian government under Heinrich Held ended all hopes for the idea....An scenario could be made with this foiled plan or to be another start point for this vid. I have also read that Hitler tried to gain the Crown Prince support throught Ernst Rohm with promises of Royal restoration but he refused. Also he(CPR) is quoted to have told King George V in 1934 that he "considered Hitler to be insane".
One of the better timelines
The Good Ending. Honestly I wonder how the cold war would be in this scenario.
I have a suggestion for a possible future alternate history video:
What if Italy never joined the Axis in WW2?
Yes sir
Rewriting history did something similar with “what if Italy joined the allies in ww2”
Your howdy's are always so cheery josh! Great job! Specially loved the Habsburgs restoration while united with germany! Suggestion: what if wilhelm II died in the same year as his father, leaving wilhelm III under a regency?🤔🤔🤔
Bavaria is underrated!😊😊😊😊
100% Agreed, genuine Tragedy that it isnt talked about more often since it is essentially the last vestige of Germany with an actual living Culture
As a Bavarian, no. Its not underrated, its literally the most famous culture and Bundesland of germany by far.
Also, its going to lose its culture in a few decades, just like the rest of germany.
@@nein236why ???
Because of Third world migration?
@@rishavkumar1250 Not only that but that is definitely one of the reasons.
@@rishavkumar1250yes
Can you do 'What if Vinland remained settled by Vikings?'
I agree
The Inuit are a good example of people successfully colonising America A bit after the Vikings failed
I wonder what role they played in the failure of green land ?
Vinland was "settled" less than Antarctica is today. It was a distant and short lived trading post at best. For there to be any real Nordic settlement in Vinland, Greenland would have most likely needed to have been more heavily colonized.
@@ulfskinn1458it isn’t TOO obscene. you just have to make atleast one norwegian king more interested in North Sea colonization and putting more resources and encouraging more settlement in iceland and greenland.
@@wegdhass5587 You would also have to get people to settle Greeland, which is easier said then done. Keep in mind that Greenland too was never anything more than a small fringe settlement far away from the authority of the Norwegian crown. Attracting people to settle such a desolate and barren land is hard enough, let alone relying on such a land to provide for a colony of significant size. Could the medieval Norwegians have created a sizable colony in Vinland? Sure, they were certainly capable of doing so. But you really need incentive for people to relocate thousands of miles away to live in difficult conditions in a strange land. North America is just too far from Norway. Without a developed colony in Greenland, trade routes to Norway would be near impossible. All the fur and timber in the world isn't worth much when there's no markets to sell to.
And this is why Bavaria should be the one to unify Germany. Thank you for this video, Josh!
Idea for video: What if Aztecs found Europe before Columbus?
Does Aztec have a big ass boat?
Love your content josh! You're amazing!❤❤❤❤❤
I love your videos, but you really need to make part twos to some of these
Agree
What if everything went right for the Orthodox World? ☦️
You mean tsaropapist Russian world or dividence to hundreds of national sects?
Really great video! I wonder if Germany could make an agreement with Poland over the corridor like Gdańsk for Lithuania or further gains against the USSR. I also wonder if Luxembourg/Liechtenstein would be willing to unite with this Bavarian-led Germany.
Good stuff!
Video idea : what if the avars survived in Pannonia, killing Charlemagne or what if the cumans and mass settled and replaced Hungary
Hi Jash. Another interesting video.
Nice Video, would love to see a similar video about the Kingdom of Wurttemberg. 👌🏻
The lack of hitler might have even accerated the crisis as the main moderate voices in the sudentenland that spoke against joining Germany did so not on pro-czech narratives but anti-nazi ones, they were ok with Germany but not a nazi Germany. So without the Nazis the sudeten germans would have been even more likely to push for joining Germany and pan-German nationalists would have still fanned the flames in any timeline, so I think the Czechislovak crisis (which people forget was also about hungarians in Czechislovakia, aswell as slovak indepedance movements and ruthenian indepedance movements). It's likely without a Hitler boogey man that the Czechs fall about even quicker in this timeline, if more peacefully and without Germans puppeting them afterwoulds.
Great video! What map editor do you use?
Nice
Very interesting scenario
Blessed timeline
This is absolutely cursed. I love it.
Germany under the Wittelsbachs would be far kinder than under the cursed Hohenzollers.
A good video, enjoyed watching. Although, I’d caution against sweeping statements. Instead of saying “Bavarian populace soured on left-wing rule, as many began advocating for the restoration of the Wittlesbach Monarchy.” Without a citation it comes across unfounded assertion drawn from later actions like the Beer Hall Putsch. In future, might be worth specifying who (individuals or organisations) in the Bavarian population was agitating for the return of the Bavarian Monarchy. I’m sure there’s be a direct quote written in a Munich based newspaper for example you would be able to use, or even a quote from a Historian. Just a suggestion to add richness to a well made and produced video. Best of luck in your endeavours.
Idea! Can you make a "what if robespierre stayed in power" video?
Its always said how he dealt with internal issues but how would he menage external ones?
Would robespierre willingly step down from power if he lose an election or would the make a coup? Would he annex territories or make them into new republics? Would ge be able to create some kind of stability even if only in the ling term?
Just a thought
What if Hitler died in the first world war and the Weimar republic survived then
Don't think the weimar Republic would survive just because Hitler died. The weimar Republic was just a terrible government, making a. Bad situation worse and people recognised that. Either a different nazi, or a different rightwing or leftwing group would destroy the weimar system.
If Hitler died , there will be another person who will be like him
Weimar wouldn’t have survived there’d just simply be no hitler
are you from Loudoun county? I've always wondered because of the coat of arms similarity to your channel's icon.
i notices that too
May not be for Hohenzollerns or Baden-centric, but this is based because monarchy
A far better history
Ok but what happens during the Spanish Civil War? It happened at roughly the same time as the Invasion of Ethiopia irl. So does it still happen here and if so does Germany intercede in this timeline as well? Also what about the Winter War between the Soviets and Finns?
in this scenario, the dawes plan wouldnt happen as Gustav Stressemann wouldnt become chancellor of the Weimar Republic (as it doesnt exist) for that same reason the Great Depression would not affect Germany too greatly. A point of focus to look at in regards to economic turmoil would be the Hyperinflation Crisis. It was only solved by the creation of a new currency by Stressmann, how would Ruprecht solve it in this timeline?
Even if the Dawes Plan doesn't exist in the exact same way as in our timeline, I wouldn't doubt that officials in Rupprecht's government wouldn't attempt to do something similar to try to resolve the crisis.
No, But Monarchists attempted to convince King Ruprect to stage a coup.
He declined and wanted the Kingdoms to restored democratically.
Love the Imperial Bavarian flag. But I'm sure Ludwig II wouldn't propose a German Empire, he HATED Prussians, even though his mother, Queen Marie, was Prussian.
I like your videos- and I have a weird but interesting suggestion: What if Prince Joseph Ferdinand of Bavaria was given the throne of Spain?
"As the only surviving descendant of Margaret Theresa and a great-grandson of Philip IV, Joseph Ferdinand's claim was sound and widely recognized in Spain. Furthermore, being neither a Habsburg nor a Bourbon, his candidacy appealed to England and the Dutch Republic due to its alignment with the emerging balance of power doctrine in Europe."
Certified Oachkatzl Classic
i prefer Austria-Bavaria
4:21 who are these dudes?
We found it! The good timeline!
What if the three cousins fought the rest of Europe in ww1
What if humans had longer lifespans
Like The Numenoreans.
Life could be dream...
06:29
hilter with bunny-ears on, is cursed
Interesting
Funfact: Bavaria only joined the german Empire because it's king Ludwig II. was promised a ton of money to build more castles, but the people didn't want to be part of a german unified state and I'll be honest with you... I don't want to be anymore too (I'm bavarian)
Based
What if everything went horrible for France
I lol’ed when I realized what the $’s were covering.
10/10
What title would the Habsburg’s have under this Bavarian monarchy? Would Charles I and then Otto Habsburg (Franz Joseph II) simply be Archdukes of Austria or would they be Kings of Austria? Since all the many many Habsburg cousins all bare the title of Archduke?
What about Hungary in this timeline?
Horthy actually wanted Károly IV. back (or so he claimed) he was just afraid of Liitle Entente intervention?
Could Humgary possibly become a monarchy again thanks to German help? Especially since Fascism couldn't rise under these circumstances.
Josh Sullivan History
ethnic Germans in Schleswig-Holstein, Memelland, Danzig
Suggestion : What if the United Belgian States succeded/manage to resist both Austria and France ?
(if you don't you what it is : en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Belgian_States)
Holy Based
What if the viewer's voted for an alternative Peace Treaty of Europe after the Treaty of Vienna and the first world war
Based and epic
what if everything went right for lithuania?
Better timeline
Could this be... the good ending..?
Idea, what if Anglo-German Union was a nation either by Crown Prince Rupprecht or another royal of either Anglo-German background.
idea for video
What if Vinland was successful but got cut off from Europe
The Beer Hall Putsch was not Hitler's idea- in fact, he was brought into the plot quite late. It was the leaders of Bavaria who originally conceived of the scheme, and the plan was to make General Ludendorff the dictator of Germany (the "Kapp Putsch" from two years earlier had the same goal- both times, Ludendorff got away with his involvement by claiming he was merely out for a walk).
The leaders of the Putsch got cold feet and decided to drop the scheme, but Hitler was infuriated by this (to him) cowardice and weakness, and he took the leaders hostage in a restaurant and informed Ludendorff that the plan was a go, and they were just waiting for his Stormtroopers to take control of the communications and seize weapons from a local garrison.
The Bavarian leaders then told Ludendorff that of course, they will totally back him, and they would just like to go home so they can get properly dressed for the occasion, and Ludendorff actually let them after they gave their word of honour that they wouldn't alert the government in Berlin.
When Hitler found out, he was utterly stunned that Ludendorff could be so stupid, and sure enough the Bavarians telephoned ahead to warn people about the attempted coup (leaving their own part out of it); after a period of being completely shocked into silence, Hitler and the others decided that the Putsch would become a march onto Berlin which of course ended with the army coming in and shooting at them, leading to Hitler and the rest to scarper in different directions.
Hitler and a comrade spent the night hiding out in the forest (getting covered head to toe in mud) before making their way to the Hanfstaegal house, where the missus got him cleaned up and also took his gun away so that he wouldn't shoot himself, which he absolutely talked about doing and which she had to talk him out of by telling him that he was far too important to the German people for her to let him end his life.
So, it wasn't the Bavarian royal family that were behind this, but they possibly would have at least benefitted if Ludendorff decided to bring the monarchies back, which was feasible), and the "Hitler "Putsch" is a bit of a misnomer since although Hitler executed the plan, it wasn't originally his idea nor would he have been the prime beneficiary of such a scheme.
Now I wish this was real 😂
Also this would be a dope mod for Hoi4
While it's a neat video there are some huge problems with this take on a Monarchal restoration. First and foremost is that German rearmament was occurring long before the Nazi's took power. It's true that once the Nazi's took power, they sped up the rearmament however the German General Staff under von Seckt and others were exploring different ways of rearming while skirting the Versailles Treaty. The German General Staff wanted to do a round 2 with France and so the Monarchy would have had to contend with a very militaristic armed forces bent on revenge and redemption (in the army's own eyes) unless attitudes could be changed. Second the Monarchy would still need to find a scape goat for the failures of WW1 and the defeat of the army. This would have necessitated placing blame on the socialists and communists (most likely focused on the USSR) but there may have been some shade thrown at the former Kaiser Wilhelm leading to him still being unable to take the Prussian throne though his son could with some difficulty. The Sudentenland may still have happened as both many in Germany and Poland wanted Czech lands and slovaks were friendly the Germans and would have sought help. I agree that Austria would have been Anschlussed though I don't think Italy would have been as upset about it as you make it out to be. Mussolini knew Italy was not prepared for war which is why he was shocked even if he did have Italy invade France in May/June 1940 to support the Germans (and it failed miserably). Italy was focused on the Mediterreanian and would have knocked off what he considered far weaker targets like Ethiopia, Albania, and possibly even Greece. Yugoslavia was a Monarchy that had fascist sympathies however the Germans would have most likely supported them to support a fellow conservative monarchy and keep stability in what was traditionally the "powder keg" of Europe. Germany would have also still had to contend with a possible Soviet Invasion by 1942, which would have happened in our timeline had the Nazis not invaded in 1941.
A great world, a better world, a Bavarian world !
It would be unlikely that the House of Hollenzhollem would be deposed as Kaiser by the Wittlesbachs but even if they did manage to overthrow the Weimar Republic and restore the empire Crown Prince Wilhelm would likely take the Imperial and Prussian thrones, not his father as Wilhelm II was still disliked because of his conduct during the war and not Rupprecht because it would be seen as a usurpation. Moreover, Wilhelm II would not have taken the throne had the Wittlesbachs taken the imperial throne for themselves, seeing it as an affront to both their dynastic and Prussian honour in general.
The (mostly) good timeline
Heaven it would be heaven
(I am Bavarian btw)
Interesting theory, especially for a Bavarian like me. I would be lying not to have theories of my own how things would have gotten if Ludwig II had not be "persuaded" to join forces with the Norddeutsche Bund, but instead would have taken a stance together with Austria......and so on, but we all know .......fairytale castles were much more important and the prussians were willing to pay for them.
By the way i have served in the Crownprince Rupprecht Barracks in Munich, being part of the traditional unit to the Royal Bavarian Lifeguards, funny, isn`t it? Our Honor Commander in Chief was prince Luitpold of Bavaria, a Wittelsbacher (But he had more ambitions in racedriving than politics)!
A Catholic Germany? Sign me up!
Wir wollen unser alte Kaiser Wilhelm wiederhaben!
My ancestors
The original miller/Mueller comes from bovaria
Please do a video on all the resons why the Japanese empire fell (like for exsample the navy and army arguing)
Or to stay on altutive history,
What if new Zealands greatest military comander titkourau didn't lose his suport,
I beg you though, if you do this PLEASE learn the correct pronounceation
It would be based
Kurt Eisner: " the Wittlebachs ruled Bavaria for 700 yrs. I got rid of them in 7 hours with 7 men"
And a entire army He Had to import from northern Germany because of the bavarians refused to Support him
What if the spanish colonies stayed together
What if greece annexed cyprus during the 1970s
Only thing is that hitler wasnt a big fan of monarchism, katholicism or regionalism. If you dont believe me then read mein kampf. He talks about it in chapters 2 and 3, where he shares his experiences in vienna and his views on austrian politics. In general hitlers main motivation was to prevent germany from collapsing like the habsburg monarchy.
Bavaria was meant to unite Germany
German National Glory was already Lost 3 Years Prior to 1923.
What if the same house still ruled greece
6:30 Really now? You got the pretext of Wittelsbach and Hollenzoren rivalry. And Wittelsbach king would restore Wilhelm Hollenzoren as king of Prussia??? Logic is dead.
4:26 why is Hitler and other fellow Nazis wearing dollar signs on their arm bands.
Hell yea baby bavaria for the win
As a German-American of Bavarian descent, I appreciate this alternate timeline. 👍
Well first Bavaria would have to actually be a monarchy. It was republic at that time.
heil Bavaria
A 10 minute video where the first 5 minutes is just the setup...
Also the pronunciation of Rupprecht makes me want to cry
Strong germany that doesnt fall to mustache man :)
Under Bavarian rule :(
BASED
What if James Stuart the Old Pretender was raised Protestant
Source?
Munich should have been capital of Germany.
Change my mind.
Alternate title: What if Germany becomes (and remains) giga-based
What if Russia won the Russo-Japanese War
7th
Why would you censor swatstica’s? I don’t think you need to.
Lol, I didn't initially, but UA-cam demonetized the video, so I censored them, but then they still demonetized it anyway.
@@JoshSullivanHistory WHAT!? That’s crazy!
{P;ECA,