Why Did Intel Even Make This? - Optane 800P SSD
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- Опубліковано 6 лип 2024
- We all know by now Optane is fast… But can Intel’s latest SSD FINALLY bring Optane into the home? Or is it just half-baked and overpriced?
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...I just got an ad for an ad blocker.
it's called youtube premium
Ironic eh lol
Curb your adblock
lol
i get ads for youtube on youtube like... 2 o 3 times a day. Not as ironic but man does it look as a desperate means to have u purchase youtube premium haha
Watching this in 2020 and seeing the old prices of those m.2 ssd’s is crazy. The 960 pro is something like 190 bucks now, not $607! What a difference two years make.
2 years later and now a very good NVME SSD 1TB is only 100 bucks
@@Theunihornable months later it’s more like $50 to 60. I got a 2TB for $80
@@Theunihornableyeah exactly. it's kinda crazy
@@Theunihornableone year later a top of the line 2tb is $110. Like super top of the line.
@@realSirDextroseI paid $110 for mine but it’s close to the best. Literally top 5 ssd you can get in all benchmarks. You can get really good ssd cheap now.
I was looking at a 4tb 4.5gb by 3gb reads nvme WITH DRAM and only $160 for mass storage. Not the best brand but also an okay one at least.
This doesnt look like a consumer product...really it makes more sense for a database environment where reduced latency could help get more IOPS.
Taylord Tech Well, IOPS represents better real-world performance than sequential read/write.
This is exactly it, and it's flying over his head. These SSDs are for Queue depth 1. And they're fucking AMAZING for things like ZFS intent log, where you really badly need assinine-fast, power-loss-protected storage, and only need maybe 2-5 gb of it.
Taylord Tech exactly what it is. This guy doesn’t understand lol
Most enterprise class databases run in memory
Now get back 10 years ago and ask same question for SSD vs HDD. Mind Optane is just 3 times as expensive. In few generations Optane will kill SSD, as SSD can't store data for long without electricity and Optane have higher endurance rate.
For me that's exactly what I was looking for! I'm doing machine learning on my 32gb of RAM machine but I run out of memory very often. Using the 58gb 800P as swap will be perfect!!
Yay! NOW I can open my word files 1 second earlier!!!!
ifUreadthisURalien for Just 200 dollars 😂
For someone busy as me I would love to open word documents and other applications faster because those seconds add up all together and can save a lot of time!!!!!
you only have to open word 562 times to make up for watching this video and then you start saving 1 second at a time, that almost as good as crypto ROI!
If - for whatever reason - your daily workload consists of opening +10 docs simultaneously every x minutes - yes, you can save up to x seconds...
...which apparently is _a lot of time_
This exactly what I understood, so... it's for people who do a lot of tasks on PC??? Can't think of a workplace where you would need that, maybe as a business PC.
Thank you for re-enabling the option Linus.
Will start writing subtitles as normally.
Some people are just nice and can type quickly.
No. Volunteer work. Just to contribute to this channel as it helped me a lot, so why not help him back?
Some people are actually deaf and the google auto translate audio to text is not perfect, so not really a waste of time
Nice people do nice things
your selfish for sayng that as aperson that can not hear that well i benfit from it and those that add sub make me so happy
Optane is an Intel/Micron cooperative that is intended for big server farms for much faster I/O's. It's a means to supplement the need for much more DRAM in a smaller space. Creating a consumer product out of it is just a simple way for them to take the existing 3DXPoint modules and make some more profit. The tech is still maturing, but I wouldn't be surprised if we still don't see noteworthy performance increases even in Gen 2.
I'm getting amped to argue why Optane needs to live on, instead of being discontinued. It's not market viable in its DIMM form, but as storage it's bananas, and from what I've seen from some Level1Tech videos, it's kind of scraping against some limitations of Windows itself, and even Linux when pushed hard enough in its modern P5800x incarnation. It really makes me wonder, had they marketed it better, and made products that would make more sense to the average prosumer, and had it got the traction it needed to get that far, would it have gotten lower level Windows support alongside big.little when Windows 11 updated. I've seen the productivity improvements that a spot of ramdisk nets you, and now I've got an Optane drive for PrimoCache on the way now too. It's kind of silly to me to hear techtubers shrug about high end storage and high capacity RAM when talking about productivity. Most of the time just showing benchmark drag races without telling viewers that half of productivity work is moving tons of files around, and not waiting around for renders. It's basically increasing the FPS of Windows Explorer.
I think this SSD can put my Dyson into RAID 0
LeBeautiful Nigga I see you everywhere
Modafakrr I'm still using Pentium 3 Procesar for counter strike: condiction zero I don't have $hit money to buy a low end PC 😤 im pro Gamer
LeBeautiful
This SSD? What SSD? Gamer's.....Linus, remove this chat crap section please!!!
Yo lebaldy
Take your filthy upvote :)
I'd be interested in seeing a build with only 8 gigs of ram and a 118 GB pagefile on Optane.
When the optane DIMMs are out than that might work. but via PCIe? Well, you'd need a massive Raid0 and still have huge delays.
I've seen pagefile based systems tested with regular SSDs when they were new. They sorta worked. This has much lower latency. I'm just curious to see how it goes.
That too. I'm actually not sure what the minimum amount of ram you can get Windows to boot with is these days. I didn't want to low-ball it so much that it couldn't boot. Do they even make 2GB ram sticks anymore?
With some tweaking you can get Win10 64bit to run with 1 GB, but 2GB is the official minimum.
with other versions you can get it to be far smaller even.
In that case, I'm all for it. Good call. Linus should do this build.
The optane SSD is as far as I remember(too lazy to google now) has far superior disk writes per day which makes it ideal for page/swap drives to augment RAM. Also that latency helps a lot with this. As a regular SSD it isn't very good because that's not what it's supposed to do. I think it's more of a server part than consumer part.
TitelSinistrel you are better than 99.9% of the comments here, and you got it exactly right. It works best as a midpoint between RAM and storage, and on servers there is a lot of demand for that midpoint.
Basically this. Level1tech guys did their piece on optane drives with a bit more focus on databases, those things being already optimized for file system interactions. In short, you wont get any perfomance for your games or adoobees, but will save up a small fortune in RAM prices on your databasd server.
Nice regurgitation of intel PR bullshit.
If optane has such great write endurance why reviewers have their optane sticks die on them after a day of testing?
An equally priced SSD gets you more capacity and more write endurance than optane ever will.
does not the page file with enough memory get to be really useless, only used for operating not program dependent data storage.
"An equally priced SSD gets you more capacity and more write endurance than optane ever will."
£329 Optane: 3640 TBW
£310 Flash SSD: 1000 TBW
Even a super-expensive 2tb flash SSD is going to get a peak of 2500TBW, whereas the 480gb Optane is ~6500TBW.
Though I will agree on the capacity/price at the moment. Intel needs to drop those prices hard. Kind of difficult when the tech doesn't have much appeal and demand at the moment.
"If optane has such great write endurance why reviewers have their optane sticks die on them after a day of testing?"
That isn't write endurance, that's hardware failure. I don't know how you're confusing the two since they're dramatically different concepts.
"The optane SSD is as far as I remember(too lazy to google now) has far superior disk writes per day which makes it ideal for page/swap drives to augment RAM."
The write endurance isn't actually the main feature of Optane, it's more of a neat side-effect than anything.The main feature of Optane is the 6~8us (6000~8000ns) read latency and 15us write latency. This is compared to NAND SSD's read of ~150+us and write of ~800+us. For swap space alone this is immensely useful, but you could imagine the impact it could also have on VMs, caching, large buffers, etc etc.
OMG transition so smooth you got me again
Just gonna buy 500gb ssd in summer and call it a day. I'll check that Intel stuff in 2023
FeTi Productions i plan to get 1tb so it lasts long enough to make it to 2023
As you can see at 3:07 118GB is barely enough space to even run benchmarks.
yeah your right
Windows is not the only OS, by the way, may be the product is not designed with Windows in mind, that's probably why is not black with skulls and gamer stamped everywhere in the box. Could be used for cache or non Windows boot drives. My whole OS with programs takes 18GB, with more care would be less.
mz2281694 ofc it's not windows alone, they were benchmarking.
Pischke Performance
Linus and Pischke, it's not a storage device!
Use the cloud for storage, local files, why?
You are all 1995 people, first installing DOS, then Windows on top, that was 1995! Now we just boot now using some local crap for that only, I/O sys, command com?
Lol that drive is FULL
Samsung 960 Pro SSD is the king in the castle!
...For consumers.
No, kings ston is.
Nope, Samsung 970 EVO Plus is king.
not even close optane is insanely fast in iops, espacially optane dc persistent memory. He did not test it for its purpose database speed
Thankyou for this one! I was just considering adding one of these to my new build. Looks like I'll be saving a few dollars for now.
I have an Intel 600p NVMe as my boot drive, my Samsung 960 EVO is 3 times faster. I bought the 32GB Optane module as soon as it came out, turns out Intel SSDs are not supported by Optane. It literally says it in the fine print on their website. I'll never waste money on Intel storage again.
Add to that, anytime the BIOS is flashed or reset, Optane deletes the partitions on all the drives since it is RAID, and they have to be recovered on a separate machine. It took 3 times of me formatting and reinstalling windows to figure out recovering the partitions because of Optane.
*" It literally says it in the fine print on their website. I'll never waste money on Intel storage again."*
Well - really? You Fucked up.
And those 2 SSDs don't really compete when the Intel SSD is nearly 100$ cheaper - of course it is slower.
intel SSDs aren't the best price/performance, but here it is your fault and yours alone.
ABaumstumpf the Intel 600p is more expensive than the Samsung 960 EVO...
No
waw you bought a intel optane module to speed up a ssd xD , GJ you failed @ tech
0:46
Tunnel bear: oh so this is who you chose over me?
Linus: you aren't the same anymore :(.
Tunnel bear: oh i see how it is.
Cable mode: Linus got tired of you, now leave.
tunnel bear: well i am happier with mcafee now anyway.
Godly MangoMC Do you feel better getting that little narrative off your chest?
nice fan fic bro. my mcm would cry to this
Perhaps it was just a 1 year contract w/ TunnelBear? :)
tunnelbear LUL
Mcafee is trash 😂
That blooper xD. What music is that? Lol
I could see the 800P being useful for temporary files. It could cache web pages or intermediate files if you're chaining applications.
Will it run TunnelBear more efficiently?
TB was recently acquired by Macaffee, so nothing can run it now
eh seah la good one
SMGJohn Tunnelbear was bought from intel by McAfee like week or two ago. so I'd expect it to be a bloated adware/malware piece of crap by the end of month.
LasOrveloz isn’t mcafee part of intel?
joris yauw only partly, Intel has 49% while the rest of tthe 51% is between TPG group and Thoma Bravo LLC
Kitchen :D
wtf xD
Nostalgia for the old studio
They could bake some eggs on a gtx 480
fake bananas :D
I'm the only one who's tired of the terrible acting of Dennis, Ed, etc ?
The Canadian "sorry" lol (6:40)
"Speaking of things to disagree about, the way we integrate sponsors!" hahaha
Is no one going to talk about the *hiss* in the audio?
Mever expected something like that from someone as professional as Linus.
it was just released
Major hiss in this one.
There's a snake in your machine.
do you mean the white noise?
Does it run Dyson?
Nah, it doesn't suck enough. It's got the price right though.
good question. I will answer this question After this message from cablemod...
Can it keep a copy of Star Citizen ? No :-(
Son IQ Bükücü İlber Ortaylı what's this joke about
SJ About how a lot of people hated the recent Dyson video.
Happy to see a kitchen style backdrop/ground. Feels like the oldies LTT videos.
WHERE IS MY TUNNELBEAR!?
Getting bought by McAfee
Not coming back
Go to chocotaco's video
exactly my thoughts
WHERE IS IT???
JAG 0937 EB
TunnelBear was bought out by McAfee and Linus didn't like their change in ethical practices so thats why they don't have them as a sponsor anymore.
He put that hard drive back so softly. It’s probably already been dropped countless times.
Virtual machines... :) In large networks it is very common to have lots of people ask for small bits of data. These data switches so fastly that normal ssd's would not be able to process it. also it will kill there writing speeds. Also something like a router might use these speeds to keep a cache of the proxy making it easier to serve more data, what also changes a lot. :) The last one i can think off is for services as a drive that will cache system images for sending around the network, these files are often stored on large drives but if used with EXSI he might be able to transfer these files to this drive for easy access. >>> think this to
itpeernetwork.intel.com/configuring-vmware-esxi-benchmarking-intel-optane-ssd/
It definitely seems that this drive was designed for low latency throughput, that should tell you right away that it is for networks. This would be good in a thin client set up where the data is served through the network. In large campus setups this would be great, and the price to speed ratio would be justified, as for Admin, time is money, and latency is the biggest killer of time. I do not think this is built for the consumer market, it does not make any sense for that market. It also is not good for heavy load apps like games and video processing, so that makes sense that it would be marketed to the server/thin client networks like shopping centers, universities, big call centers, government offices, that sort of thing.
:) Yes though for tin clients the data throughput inside the network is the biggest bottleneck. If i look at my job place, using this makes more sense with EXSI live migration for example. Where you move one virtual machine from one server location to the other without downtime. This will take serious impact on the disk, even it does not go offline. Also the things like the database are not running on these virtual machines but are separate. For consumers this makes no sense like you said, you would not notest a difference between 1 or two seconds less. Edit: check this website to, it clearly shows it market > www.tweaktown.com/articles/8096/intels-optane-debut-dc-p4800x-3d-xpoint-ssd/index.html
I'm skeptical about this being useful for VMs. The VM host doesn't need much disk, so it can mostly sit around in ram. The guest hard drives are too large for this approach to be cost effective. Maybe if your system is based heavily around micro-services and docker, but even then I'd be a bit skeptical. The kinds of people who run systems like that probably want a ton of RAM, at which point having this drive doesn't matter. I can almost see it for routers, but I routers like cost-cutting too much for this to be viable any time soon.
Swap drives too. SSDs have write limitations making them not ideal to house one's swap files.
"Swap drives too. SSDs have write limitations making them not ideal to house one's swap files."
Ding! Ding! Ding! We have a winner!
lol dat advertisement segue made me laugh. Nice job.
Kinda good video a bit of a dead end on some important points and unsolved mysteries but still very good that there is someone to do all this and say all this. So keep it up.
Intel must have hired the genius from Microsoft that thought the Windows 8 GUI was a good idea.
i'm sure Microsoft kept the idiot and gave him a promotion.. hahaha
vampov I for one enjoyed win 8. Compared to 10 it feels miles better
Actually, there is a huge source of demand for Optane. It's just not in the consumer market, and Intel has been rather slow to release these larger capacities.
And yeah the Windows 8 GUI was a nightmare that Microsoft should have abandoned. At minimum they should have realized that it only really works with touchscreens.
+Chris Edwards
i mean, i think they did. they created a Phone/Console Operating System UI, then decided everybody would want it too because reasons.
i have windows 8 on a touch screen....it sucks....beta tested windows 8 and told them it was going to bomb.
cablemods: extra thicc cables
Parker Rose thiccc*
Wrong it's T.H.I.C.C
Parker Rose aku: EXTRA THICC
T H I C C
I laughed SO hard at your second sponsor intro
oh my god i got a crucial SSD ad i am laughing so hard xD
I guess Intel doesn't pay not as much as Dyson...
But it sucks more? ;)
One negation too much?
The second negation was sponsored by Websters dictionary.
Intel has paid me recently so I think their Optane products are really nice
whatsforsupa Sellout
Shut up scrub.
This makes me want to buy intel products
FirstResponder Where do I sign up!?
Dude did you watch the same video? This was an overwhelmingly negative review.
Large code compile times might be an interesting benchmark to do on a SSD.
The four wall is all over the floor! Nice ad transition.
Kind of meh, I just can't get excited about it.
Finally "on fleek" is gonna die out :D
Im so glad
thx Linus
Knife Ivan
It never lived. Never heard of it.
Pfft. Benny Slater never heard of your slang? Dudn't even exist, son.
I am twenty two.
C R 13.
Love the kitchen setup
Interesting info on this! Thanks Linus!
The cheapest 120 GB SSD will do for my os, main programs and youtube editing
Dr. Dunk Funny you mention that..I just got my SSD yesterday for 50 bucks
I wouldn't say the cheapest, since some 120gb ssds aren't exactly that great. You definitely don't need to spend that much though: something relatively cheap ($50 ish) such as an SL308 or BX300 would do fine.
got one here with a hdd for games.
why would u need more in 2018?
+Dr. Drunk
the Cheapest SSD is and will be the Most Expensive SSD you buy.
Microcenter has 120gb store brand for $30
Huge market of users who'll pay 200 to have their comp boot 2 secs faster than their neighbors ;)
for anyone wondering, the track in the intro is Skeewiff & Syd Dale - First Steps
The response time may be very good in specific use cases. Caching of course or general databases may show significant gains.
i really like your new kitchen set, but can you please use a tripod for your red camera it is really noticeable.
also i don't think optane is at a viable price now because of nand storage prices now so high
I didnt notice it till I read your comment but now its really bugging me lol
Something (somewhat related) that could be cool to test is the difference in performance between an HDD, SSD, NVME and virtual disc on ram. I am thinking of professional use, things as video rendering/exporting and CAD software with very large assemblies (a company where I worked a year ago had assemblies containing upwards of 13k parts that took about 10 to 15 minutes to load in solidworks)
Man that sucks on solid works load. Did you guys try running it all of a SQL server, that seemed to make that less of a issue for use, and management liked it cause we could spend less on hardware.
Im not sure, there was a PDM system but even with all the files local it took quite a while. (well over 10 minutes.) With assemblies of well over 10k parts even the small things make a big difference, for example with concentric mates. It made for example quite a difference after we selected "lock rotation" on all these mates.
Yeah we mostly worked on sub assemblies for that reason by that point you basically never touch the main model.
Same here, but now and then you needed more information to check fit. But usally the assemblies where 5/8 levels deep.
yeah that was why never really booted the main assembly just had it updating and would spread like 10 different clones of it which would check with each other, and all the people in the office had a way to pull up those copies onto their monitors.
ive been watching him since 10k subs. I feel proud
As to the sponsors, This is the first time i've seen something you featured and clicked the link. I think I might actually grab one of those P90's.
The problem is probably in Windows I/O model. Specifically that all those kernel side layers (filter drivers, etc.) add so much latency to I/O requests that the difference between SSDs is just not very visible.
Once Windows gets a faster I/O model, I'd expect small random read I/O (read: most that affects booting up, loading executables, etc.) to be up to 3x faster.
*"Thermaltake P90"* - Spray & Pray
I can see this being useful for a development workspace disk given the latency. It would help with loading and building a project with thousands of small individual files.
Increased storage space increases write durability as well though, so if a drive had 4x the storage space for the same cost, the other would need to have 4x the durability just to break even.
This drive has huge business potential and for commercial use. Some of what I do is setup POS system at restaurants. This would be amazing for Restaurant touchscreens POS systems. Especially in a busy place where their database can reach up to 1 gig. Even though it doesn't seem like a lot of data. When you have 7 terminals all working on it during a busy rush hour you have no idea how much a system can get slowed down. Even half a second delay going between order screens is a long time to wait for a waitress putting in 6 orders for 30+ people. That easily adds up to minutes waiting for the system to respond. Also, these systems are just barebones Windows7/10 so space isn't an issue at all.
That's a great use case!
Given that almost every commercial PC I’ve ever touched runs an Intel processor of some sort, maybe that price per GB issue could be softened with a package deal when the manufacturers are building their motherboards.
So much this. It doesn't have much consumer use, but for business use it is massive. It's basically at a midpoint between RAM and SSDs, but it's priced closer to SSDs. That makes it awesome.
And if you put it in a high-throughput server farm, it'll do wonders.
This really makes me wonder if Intel is getting much lower yields than they expected. Either that or they're trying to decrease price by increasing volume. It almost just seems like proof of concept, or something to go between the 16/32GB Optane "Memory" and the 900P as far as pricing goes to make things look nicer in their line-up for investors or just to keep Xpoint in the news? It mostly just seems like something to try and compete with high RAM prices, though.
For now, besides as a scratch disk, or, you can't get Intel Optane working as memory, at least a place to put your page file. Or perhaps for just running specific programs that require performance at low queue depths. Perhaps to be used mostly as an OS/Page File/certain app drive while most other stuff is either on your SSD or HDD? Maybe for users of stuff like CAD, GIS mapping, etc. where you need a ton of RAM but can't afford it right now?
Zzyzx Wolfe tbh the driver nightmare probably only applies to windows
I think your guess about keeping their investors happy via "mindshare is market share" is probably right. I'm not complaining though. It's always nice to see what are essentially datacenter products available to the masses. Also keep in mind that Intel tends to be a slow and careful company when it comes to investing in new products. Another factor is that Intel has such a long history of high profit margins that they tend to overprice new products. They'd much rather tip their toes in the consumer market with Optane then jump in head first. As the products get cheaper it's easier to expand an existing product channel then create a new one. Make no mistake all signs point to 3d x-point being the future of Intel storage tech; it's just taking longer then Intel's short sighted investors would like.
Yeah, it looks like bad parts that they're trying to offload.
Yeah this drive is for Linux users to use as swap. Setting it up is pretty easy and it is an order of magnitude better than a regular SSD
I have actually been wondering about that. In Linux swap is handled a lot better then the windows pagefile. In practice 8gb of ram and a 64gb optane drive(with appropriate settings set) might actually outperform a system with 32gb of RAM in typical workloads. There are a lot of excellent niche uses for optane; it's just not worth the money for a typical windows desktop consumer(or prosumer for that matter)
I bought the 960 Pro M.2 for my build. My coworker's son found a gaming PC already built on Newegg around Christmas that had the Optane. I talked him out of that one and I built him a PC and used Crucial's M.2. I haven't checked lately but Crucial had some rockin prices around Christmas.
thanks for the subtitles
i guess optane in ultrabooks would be nice..
This would be a fantastic time to show live tests of real usage of page file as exclusive RAM replacement. I have been unable to find much in searches.
With the idea of Optane as a low-latency storage, why not disable RAM and force all memory usage through the 3D Xpoint SSD? Pit it against other storage devices and see if any of them even work at all. One guy on Tom's Hardware was able to play GTA V (albeit horribly) with RAM limited to 2GB and with a SATA3 SSD page file. If that works, what could you do with an Optane page file?
If this already exists, I would appreciate a link to that demonstration.
Diamondragan it's probably possible, and IMHO is one of the better ways to demonstrate how fast it really is without boring people to sleep with charts. Hopefully someone does exactly that test. But for the GTA example I'd have some concern over if/how it was also using video memory. It's not a good business-case demonstration, but it's a great way to grab attention and make people realize that it has new capabilities that older technology couldn't offer.
Pages on disk are inaccessible until they are copied back to RAM, so it's not possible to replace RAM with a swap file (it's impossible by definition).
If the Optane device does MMIO, then it might be possible to use it as a RAM replacement, but most PCIE devices don't have large MMIO regions, if any, and I don't think Windows is designed to be able to use MMIO regions as RAM.
Windows being closed source is a bottleneck here and I doubt Microsoft will waste money on a niche platform which might require complete rewrites to central operating files. You'd have to basically fork your own Linux destro to get some form of OS running on that setup.
Might be fantastic for remote computers that have to continue working even if they suffer power failure
I have just seen your video of 2015 of the 3 year old building a pc now i wanna build one too 😅
What it is for is IRST hybrid drives which have the solid state portion capped at 60GB but the price makes it obsolete when compared to solid state drives.
I bought a Samsung Evo 850 500gb for $150 two years ago. Today you can get a 1tb for around $220. This product is a definite epic fail.
This is less expensive than RAM and Optane is Optane, so the 120GB variant makes a lot of sense. Do a basic install and let it be used as the Page File. Or maybe, boot off of a cheap, 256GB SATA SSD and let the 60GB version be as an individual disk only for Page File Purposes, meaning you will almost get 64GB RAM for significantly lower cost.
This is great for mid-range gamers and freelance Content Creators who don't have a company to pay for them, I guess
This drive is not suited for the vast amount of consumers.But extremely useful as an accelerator/cache in certain niche use-cases.
Holy crap! I was thinking the same thing as the title of this video!! Thanks guys.
Hey Linus, wouldn't you be able to force page file to use optane as RAM?
it will still be much much slower than just buying more RAM. pagefile gets written from and to RAM, so at best you get double the latency
shendriksza although true, ram prices are out of control.
C R not necessarily. If you already have let's say 4-8gb as ram. Then the page file will only be used after you exceed your ram limit. It might last longer than you think.
+AncientFury
SLC SSD's already have 10x more endurance than MLC.
If Samsung makes an SLC SSD it would perfectly match the specs of Intel Optane.
www.tomsguide.com/us/ssd-value-performance,review-1455-6.html
Well think Anchentfury is on the right track. atleast as far as intel is marketing it. as a slow ram replacement for datacenter there hinting for it in there promo vidoes. and is compering it to ram aloot. www.intel.com.tr/content/www/tr/tr/architecture-and-technology/intel-optane-technology.html
I do not see the point in this. Get a good samsung nvme instead. Get two instead maybe? One for boot, one for data and/or scratch. The performance difference is so small that you won't notice, but the extra space you have now allow you to put more stuff on it, more accelerated stuff!
@@tf2excession That doesn't help a consumer product have a purpose. Optane is great for datacenters and very specific work station loads, but this product is consumer facing and it falls flat in any metric that a consumer is going to care about
makes sense for high frequency trading servers
Except for their disk IOPS shouldn't affect the performance of the trading system at all. RAM is still waaaaay faster than Optane.
I can think of a couple scenarios where this would be useful:
(1) as an SSD cache in a NAS environment
(2) as virtual memory in situations where there isn’t enough physical system memory available.
Intel try to claim Optane as ram. I remember computer being sold as 16gig Ram but only have 8gig real Ram and 8gig Optine cache drive... such fake marketing BS
Eh, to be honest it IS a form of Random Access Memory. It just isn't DDR4 RAM. Pretty scummy of the sistem integrator and Intel to encourage that confusion
This actually makes a huge difference in development workflows where you have multiple resources pulling from disk. A great example is if you're running your development environment and it has a caching layer and a database that you're using (let's say you're using docker compose so all are sitting on your machine). Reducing read latency on both a cache and a database will make highly noticeable differences.
sounds like a grate place to put my pagefile and cache files, there are so many of them. My HDD is on its knees and the SSD can handle it... but still have enough wait time on large projects that i get bored and start bugging people
That stock footage in the background was more interesting (distracting ) than the actual benchmark data :-)
Dedicated arma 3 drive
It sounds to me that Intel did not entirely anticipate the NAND shortages when they started Optane development & they already poured a lot of R&D into it. Judging by their push for storage solutions, it also seems like they are trying to get into that market & compete with Samsung. They just lack the time in the space to make a big impact. We'll have to see.
Probably not for typical home users but from an embedded standpoint it is easy to find uses.
I'd probably use that for the /boot directory.
I wish you would review things the same way even when sponsored.
He... He said he doesnt recommend it, the price is too high and its marketing doesnt make sense. What else does he need to do? Call Intel names?
I think that Intel is well aware that this is not gonna sell well. But this technology is innovative and it needs to hit the market so people can see it. I am sure that other companies have the same if not faster and more reliable storage solutions , but are not presenting them cause of the cost. In my eyes Intel has balls for presenting that product because they already know it will flop at the beginning at that price. Innovation needs sacrifices , experiments and risks
Yeah, no. What you described is exactly how Intel NEVER behaves. They don't push a niche-market product to gain exposure for it. You are also wrong that "other companies have the same if not faster and more reliable storage solutions". There's a good reason the Samsung 960 PRO was the comparison product for this. Samsung is way ahead on successful insertion of 3D-NAND. Toshiba, Hynix, and Winbond are all at various stages of development, with only Toshiba having a product currently identified for market using their BICS process. There are two small companies attempting to make viable super-fast memory using non-standards techniques, but they've been at it for 4 and 6 years respectively, with nothing but early press releases to show for their efforts.
and if we go back into the real world - yes the product will flop and Intel knows it, but Optane 900 Series is going to be bought up really fast for Datacenters, to make the entire world faster. Write Endurance and Latency are the two biggest desires for all Data Centers so they'll be buying this shit by the boat load.
Nope and nope. If anyone else had anything faster than SSDs, they'd be shouting about it from the high heavens. NO ONE is hiding any faster storage technology, no one. Either they don't have it, or they're working on it as hard as they can to see if it's actually possible to manufacture it.
Memory and storage speed isn't merely a "build it and they will come" business, it's a "build it and they will trip over themselves to buy as much as they can" business. You won't see that on the consumer side. But data centers? Oh dear god, it's either they buy this or they buy more RAM. And with 120GB of RAM costing something like $1000 or more, Intel is giving them the deal of a lifetime by selling this at $200. Intel could price it at $400 and sell tons of it.
From what i know optane uses almost 100 different materials for manufacturing and it is gonna be expensive for now. No biggie, since optane is faster than a sata ssd and matches and outperforms nvme at certain workloads. That you won't utilise the full performance is a different story but u do get lower latency. Oh and does the optane have to be twice as good as a 960?? like is it really mandatory?.. A good sata ssd is great for most people and the optane destroys most sata ssds.. the read and write speeds are fantastic for the avg consumer even if they don't need it. Random performance is amazing aswell. Other then the capacity, price and 1000x faster claims by Intel there's not much to complain. Performance seem pretty good. Endurance is well.. better than mlc nand.
oh and it uses only 2 lanes..Good i guess if u have multiple pci ssds
i used this as an accelerator for my non boot drive and its really good.
useful for certain type of server applications.
58GBs for a boot drive?! I was worried that wasn't enough back in 2002 running Windows XP with a slimmed down nLite installation!? Intel clearly needs to increase the random drug test Inside the company. Intel:Drug testing outside
i use an old 60 g ssd as one and 1 dualboot on it
I think Linus is going at this for the wrong view, this is ment for system administrators as caching drives for enterprise servers.
RealTheXev windows 10 is like 15gb, whats the problem with 58gb?
Windows 10 is about 100GB+ ...
@Johanneslol11 except intel doesn't seem to be marketing it that way.
7:31 What the hell is the background doing???
Love your honesty.
A performing musician with a small sample library for live work may find one useful. Low latency for disk streaming is fairly important in this context, but the practical application would be limited unless RAM is insufficient, as most sample playback software will prefer to cache data in memory when operating at the tiny audio buffer sizes necessary for live play.
1tb hdd for the same as 128gb ssd? No replacement for me...
Damn rip linus hair
Random Dude dang.. Noticed the same
This is what happens after using that Dyson thing on your head...
My hair did that at about the same age. Within 3 years it was gone. Linus Scalp Tips to 100k subscribers!
I don't think it's that bad, he's just using the wrong hair product! He totally need some wax and salt spray! Pete and pedros anyone?
He should take a razor to it. The dollar shave club would throw more money at him.
Dat “optane rating” at the intro
Compiling very large C++ projects can use a HUGE amount of random read access, and I feel the lower latency might be a selling point there.
STEP BACK is real :/
LOL "SSDs are finally at the point where their costs have fallen and their capacity is so high mechanical hard drives are [no longer needed]". Newegg has a Samsung SSD 1tb for $330 and a 1tb HDD from seagate being $70.
I think he was talking about system drives. For mass storage, HDDs are obviously cheaper.
Exactly. That’s why I use a 2TB HDD for most things; it’s so much cheaper.
Christian Moore
Umm i too use a 2tb hdd and am named christian moore
Help
Christian Moore
Some of us aren’t champ asses.
the 1tb wd blue is only about 45 usd on newegg all the time. its a great drive reliable and fast. but i think linus meant for average person with a mid to highend system and only a couple steam games. i think he meant it was "possible" to replace your hdd with an ssd if you only need 500gb-1tb and its not a budget system. but if you gotta lot of stuff its hard to beat an ssd + hdd como setup
Probably to get some monetary return while demonstrating the advance on their research about reducing storage latency. Although not really consumer grade, these are notorious numbers that perhaps Samsung already knew about (or was close to) but didn't release anything about yet because it isn't really easy to sell at this price per gigabyte ratio.
I'd love to use this as a database disk for non-critical data. doing research lookups on pre-compiled data would be a dream on the Optane.
I buy that for a dollar, in 10 years
Optane has been a solution looking for a problem from the beginning. The real question is: why are we still talking about it?
Agreed. The revolution is over. We have SSDs and they work great. These marginal boosts in performance are not compelling at all. Just get the cheapest SSD you can find and enjoy.
Linus is probably feeling guilty about taking sponsor money and promoting Optane many months ago.
KillTheMethod LOL, maybe for consumers - which is a low-profit area. But for businesses and especially data centers / server farms, this is exactly what those companies have been asking for. They will pay through the nose for anything faster than current SSDs.
Because do you know what one other technology is faster than current SSDs? It's RAM. So either they buy more RAM, or they buy these. And you don't need to look at RAM prices for very long to realize just how valuable these things are.
I speak to the consumer base exclusively. I have no idea what the demands of the commercial market are.
3:56 Is that the old Windows maze screensaver in the background?
Not sure if anyone else already posted something similar, but here it goes: A good market (IMO) is Software Development. When building (compiling) source code to binary (such as C/C++, Java) several read/write operations are required, latency in these operations could be ignored if this was used for a build server, however, if a developer is working on a project, let's say, a fairly big web application, iterations on building/compiling/running are required to develop/test the software piece. Having a drive with low latencies for random read/write operations will reduce the time required for those cycles.